0:02

If it's Tuesday, the White House

0:04

denounces violence and hate speech on

0:07

college campuses. House Speaker Johnson vows

0:09

action in Congress to combat anti-Semitism,

0:11

and pro-Palestinian demonstrators occupy a building

0:14

at Columbia University. Plus,

0:16

the judge presiding over former President Trump's

0:18

historic hush money trial holds him in

0:20

criminal contempt and threatens him with jail

0:23

time for violating a gag order as

0:25

four witnesses take the stand. And

0:28

Florida's six-week abortion ban is set to

0:30

take effect just hours from now, forcing

0:32

patients to travel hundreds of miles for

0:34

the procedure, as former President Trump tries

0:37

to deflect questions on the abortion issue

0:39

in a new interview. And

0:53

welcome to Meet the Press Now. I'm

0:55

Aaron Gilchrist in Washington, where congressional leaders

0:57

and President Biden are condemning hate speech

0:59

from the pro-Palestinian protesters at Columbia University.

1:02

That has demonstrations spurred by the

1:05

Israel-Hamas War are roiling college campuses

1:07

across the country. The protests at

1:09

Columbia University escalated last night, with

1:11

students storming and occupying a building

1:14

on the main campus. Protesters

1:16

can be seen in video here smashing

1:18

windows as they entered the building and

1:20

flying banners from the windows, unfurling one

1:23

banner with what the White House is

1:25

calling, quote, dangerous hate speech. President

1:28

Biden rebuked the demonstrators, saying protests

1:30

must be, quote, peaceful and lawful.

1:33

Testifying on Capitol Hill today, Education

1:35

Secretary Miguel Cardona, he called the

1:37

hateful rhetoric from some of the

1:40

protests unacceptable. I

1:42

think what's happening on our campuses is abhorrent.

1:46

It has no place on our campuses,

1:48

and I'm very concerned with the reports

1:50

of anti-Semitism. I've spoken to Jewish

1:53

students who have feared going to class

1:55

as a result of some of the

1:57

harassment that they're facing on campuses. It's

1:59

unacceptable. and we're committed as a

2:01

Department of Education to adhering to

2:03

Title VI enforcement. Now, this

2:06

comes as across the country protesters at

2:09

roughly four dozen colleges and universities have

2:11

set up encampments on their campuses. More

2:13

than 1,200 people have

2:15

been arrested since protests began, including at

2:18

least 200 just since yesterday. At Columbia,

2:21

the New York City police saying the university

2:23

has not asked for officers to enter

2:25

the campus. And even as

2:27

university officials threaten students with expulsion, protesters

2:29

say they will not leave the building

2:31

until their demands are met. Meanwhile,

2:34

the politics of the campus protests

2:36

are reverberating throughout Washington. This afternoon,

2:38

the Speaker of the House tried

2:40

to accuse college officials and the

2:42

Biden administration of not protecting Jewish

2:44

students. Columbia's

2:47

choice to ignore the safety

2:49

of their Jewish students and

2:51

appease anti-Semites has inspired even

2:53

more hate-filled protests to pop

2:55

up across the country. Anti-Semitism

2:58

is a virus, and because the

3:00

administration and woke university presidents aren't

3:02

stepping in, we're seeing it spread.

3:04

And that's why today we're here

3:07

to announce a house-wide effort to

3:09

crack down on anti-Semitism on college

3:11

campuses. Now, Republicans

3:13

appear to have keyed in on the

3:15

protests as a way to distract from

3:17

divisions within their own party and focus

3:20

on an issue, the Israel-Hamas War, that

3:22

highlights divisions among Democrats, as

3:24

more than half of Democrats and

3:26

three-quarters of Americans overall disapprove of

3:28

President Biden's handling of the war.

3:31

Joining me now are a team of

3:33

reporters, George Solis outside the Columbia campus,

3:35

Guadvenegas at UT Austin in Texas, and

3:37

Ryan Nobles on Capitol Hill. George, I'll

3:39

start with you in New York City.

3:41

The protests at Columbia really seem to

3:43

escalate overnight. Talk to us about the scene there

3:45

now, the mood on campus today. entry

4:00

point and exit point since those

4:02

demonstrators took over historic Hamilton

4:04

Hall. Not long ago, we

4:06

actually saw one of those pro-Palestinian demonstrators on

4:08

the roof of Hamilton Hall

4:10

here waving a Palestinian flag, rallying

4:12

more people here to the

4:14

scene. So what you've also seen is

4:17

more NYPD presence out here

4:19

outside of Columbia, we stress,

4:21

because really, in short, and

4:23

as you touched on, the NYPD is going to

4:26

not interfere unless Columbia picks up the

4:28

phone and says, come in here, which

4:30

is obviously making things a lot

4:32

more tense here because many are wondering whether

4:34

or not the NYPD will make their presence

4:37

known at this point, especially since you do

4:39

have those students that are holed up inside

4:41

of Hamilton Hall. So what does this all

4:43

mean? Well, we've been talking to a lot

4:45

of students here on campus, many of them

4:47

of the Jewish faith who, of course, say

4:49

they feel unsafe. They are still wondering if

4:51

commencement will happen here at Columbia. I spoke

4:53

with one student from Barnard College, a liberal

4:55

college here, who really just put it

4:57

up and summed it up in this manner.

4:59

Take a listen. I was really,

5:02

really shocked to see things escalate this way.

5:04

I mean, the attendance themselves, I was surprised

5:06

to see. And

5:11

the amount of time that they stayed on campus

5:13

also surprised me. But

5:15

to see administration not

5:17

really do anything as everything

5:19

escalates to get to this point is shocking

5:21

and a bit disappointing. Yeah,

5:25

Aaron, we can't forget the historical context

5:27

in all of this. This is the

5:29

same building that was occupied by student

5:32

protesters during the Vietnam era. Many

5:34

of the organizers issuing a statement, if you

5:36

will, of sorts earlier this morning, warning

5:39

really a nominist warning to university officials and

5:41

law enforcement saying that if you bring

5:44

police officers or soldiers into

5:47

this hall right now and anything

5:49

happens, any blood spilled will be

5:51

on your hands. So they're using

5:53

some very stern language. Meanwhile, everyone

5:55

wondering how will this all unfold

5:57

in the next several hours. Aaron.

6:00

Given that warning, we know the

6:02

university now has an encampment outside, it's

6:04

got an occupied building as well,

6:07

what's the reaction? Does the university have a

6:09

next move we know about? So

6:14

really, as you mentioned, right now they're

6:16

just threatening that disciplinary action. They've already

6:19

suspended those students who did not

6:21

leave that encampment yesterday under that

6:23

2 p.m. deadline. We're now saying

6:25

those students here at Hamilton face

6:28

expulsion, but really it's a question

6:30

of whether or not their campus security

6:32

or their own internal teams

6:35

will be able to convince these students to leave

6:37

this hall and to try to find a resolution

6:40

to this to be all amicable. But

6:42

at this point, again, many are wondering if it's

6:44

going to take a much stronger presence.

6:46

I mean, we've seen some of these protests across

6:49

the country from coast to coast where they have

6:51

called in police to take down

6:53

some of these encampments. The University of

6:55

Florida, another example, who used really strong

6:58

language today saying that this is really

7:00

simple. They're not babysitting these encampments. So

7:02

again, right now things very

7:04

tense here as more people descend outside

7:06

of the gate here. You

7:08

hear those chants. It seems to be growing just

7:11

larger by the minute, Aaron. All right, George, the

7:13

police force in New York City. George, thank you.

7:15

Let's turn to Texas now in

7:17

Guadvenegas on the ground there for us. God, UT

7:20

Austin is taking a bit of a different approach

7:22

to these protests compared to what we're seeing in

7:24

New York City. Set the scene for us there

7:26

today and talk about next steps. Aaron,

7:30

the protest here started last week

7:33

when organizers called for a walkout

7:35

in support of Palestine. That

7:37

day the university called then local

7:39

police and state troopers. Now, the

7:41

university has released statements indicating that

7:43

they saw clear patterns that those

7:45

organizers were following what has happened

7:47

in other parts of the country,

7:49

that they were attempting to interrupt

7:51

the functions of the university. And

7:53

that's why they called it the

7:55

state troopers. They were highly criticized

7:57

the following day. Members of the

7:59

faculty. joined more protesters in the

8:01

same place arguing that there

8:03

was no clear explanation as to why

8:06

the officials had called in the state

8:08

troopers. There were also protesters at the

8:10

local jail where dozens of individuals had

8:12

been taken after they were arrested here

8:14

during that first walkout. What we

8:16

saw for the next two days were

8:18

protests in this area without police intervention.

8:21

Then on Monday, yesterday, we saw

8:23

another group of protesters, a large

8:25

group that arrived right here. The

8:27

difference is that this time they brought tents.

8:30

They set up the tents. They also set up a barrier to

8:32

the people. It seems like

8:34

that's what triggered police and state

8:36

troopers to return into the area

8:39

and to go into this grass part where

8:41

they had those tents. They picked them up.

8:44

They detained about 79 individuals

8:46

and they pushed some of the remaining protesters

8:48

out of the area. It seems like it

8:50

was the tents that triggered

8:52

authorities here. We have had protesters every

8:55

day. What we have today is another

8:57

group returning for what they call is

8:59

a teach-in where they're just having conversations

9:01

about how they should be protesting. Every

9:05

day has been slightly different. We've seen

9:07

the authorities step in whenever they see

9:09

an indication that an encampment is going

9:11

to be set up. Aaron?

9:13

George, excuse me. I

9:15

do want to ask you very quickly about Governor

9:17

Abbott there in Texas. How much of this response,

9:20

this tougher response, is being directed

9:23

from the top, from Governor Abbott's

9:25

office? I've

9:28

been speaking to students and members of the

9:30

faculty and almost all of them have that

9:32

question. They would like to know if the

9:34

governor has been involved in the decisions made

9:37

by university officials. Now, Austin is the state

9:39

capital. In fact, the governor's mansion is not

9:41

too far from here. When

9:43

the first walkout happened on Wednesday,

9:45

the governor shared a message on

9:47

X saying that he wanted students

9:50

to be expelled if they were protesting.

9:52

Then yesterday, once again, the governor

9:55

shared another message saying encampments will

9:57

not be allowed and that students

9:59

will be arrested so it seems like

10:01

he's been playing a pain close attention to

10:03

what's happened here and every time we see

10:05

the state troopers come in the governor shares

10:07

a message arin alright what

10:10

the biggest force in austin texas today guad

10:12

thank you let's turn to capitol hill now

10:14

here in washington ryan nobles at his post

10:16

for us now so ryan speaker johnson we

10:18

know is towards sort of taking advantage of

10:20

this moment to put anti-Semitism at the top

10:22

of the legislative agenda this week i know

10:24

he just spoke about the movie's going to

10:27

be taking there's this vote that we think

10:29

could be happening later this week as well

10:31

as the legislation set the table for us yeah

10:34

that's right arin there's no doubt that speaker johnson

10:36

views this as an opening for house republicans to

10:38

take a stand as to what

10:40

they see as a virus that is spreading across

10:43

college campuses specifically as it relates

10:45

to anti-Semitism and that sort of

10:47

rhetoric and he's using the bully

10:49

pulpit as speaker of the house

10:51

to try and make that case

10:53

today held a press conference ten

10:56

different of republican chairs of different

10:58

house committees and he's as

11:00

past each one of those committee chairs uh...

11:03

with working on specific aspects to specific

11:05

planks if you will uh...

11:08

trying to deal with anti-Semitism on college

11:10

campuses there's a long list of things

11:12

that they want to do but as

11:15

an example uh... in their oversight capacity

11:17

they want the secretary of state anthony

11:19

blinken and the department of homeland security

11:22

secretary allahandra myorkas to investigate the visa

11:24

status of some of these protesters on

11:26

these campuses and even suggested uh...

11:29

that if they are on foreign student visas that

11:31

they'll be those visas be called into question which

11:33

would be a pretty dramatic move if the administration

11:35

were to fall in line behind it but

11:37

you know for the most part here in the

11:39

half of it really recognize that a lot of

11:42

this uh... is just a

11:44

public pressure campaign the chances that they

11:46

actually pass legislation that goes to both

11:48

the house and senate that has a

11:50

tangible consequence uh... for these college campuses

11:53

and their president is very unlikely when

11:57

i asked him in the sun lawmakers who who've

11:59

raised the idea of cutting off

12:01

federal funding other goes

12:03

to some universities around this country where

12:06

does that stand what sort of impact could

12:09

that even have yes there's

12:11

a process that connected to that error and

12:13

it's not a process that congress has direct

12:15

control over uh... they are

12:17

uh... working this week toward

12:20

passing uh... a new bill

12:22

that would redefine anti-Semitic practices

12:25

uh... according to the federal government

12:27

uh... essentially uh... it would include

12:29

a definition of anyone who denies

12:33

uh... Jewish people to the right to

12:35

their own independent state which is somewhat

12:37

controversial there are progressive Democrats that oppose

12:39

that legislation but if you

12:41

redefine what it means to be anti-Semitic

12:44

at the federal level then that would

12:46

give the administration more power to

12:48

enact some sort of effort

12:50

to prevent funding from going to these

12:53

college campuses uh... but the secretary of

12:55

education today Miguel Cardona he testified

12:57

before a senate committee

13:00

uh... and he said the process is

13:02

simply a title six investigation as it's called

13:05

and he's willing to open those up

13:07

if it's warranted and look into whether

13:09

or not these college campuses are

13:11

doing enough the issue though Aaron

13:13

is that there's not one specific

13:15

magic bullet that can be fired

13:18

by congress to eliminate all these

13:20

problems each individual campuses dealing with

13:22

unique and specific a specific set

13:24

of circumstances each one of

13:26

these students uh... mayor may not

13:28

adventure into that area of

13:31

anti-Semitism which is by definition

13:33

a very subjective a definition

13:35

so it's not an easy

13:38

process so what you see here from

13:40

congress is a public pressure campaign to

13:42

try and see change all

13:44

right we're all learning about the complexities involved in these

13:46

issues rhino was forced on the hill right thank you

13:49

meanwhile in the middle east secretary of

13:51

state and to the blinkin now in

13:53

israel as part of the latest diplomatic

13:55

push for a ceasefire agreement between israel

13:57

and hamas blinkin met earlier

13:59

today with Jordanian King Abdullah and the

14:01

State Department says he once again emphasized

14:04

that Hamas should accept the latest proposal

14:06

on the table. Complicating Blinken's

14:08

efforts though are new comments from

14:11

Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu who

14:13

said today that the Israeli military

14:15

will go into Rafah with or

14:17

without a deal on hostages. NBC

14:20

News International correspondent Raf Sanchez has more now

14:22

from Tel Aviv. Secretary

14:26

Blinken today crisscrossing the Middle East

14:28

trying to secure an agreement that

14:30

would pause the fighting in Gaza

14:33

and bring the hostages home. His

14:35

day started in Saudi Arabia. From

14:37

there he went to Jordan and

14:40

on here to Israel. Now this

14:42

is a delicate diplomatic task and

14:44

it was made more complicated today

14:46

by Israeli threats to move ahead

14:49

with an offensive on

14:51

the city of Rafah with

14:53

or without a hostage deal.

14:55

Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu saying

14:58

Israel has no choice but

15:00

to go into that city

15:02

because Hamas's remaining battalions are

15:04

hiding there. Secretary Blinken speaking

15:06

in Jordan earlier says the

15:09

United States opposes any Israeli

15:11

attack without a credible plan

15:13

to get those million plus

15:15

Palestinian civilians out of

15:17

harm's way. But he did also say

15:19

that Israel has shown flexibility in

15:22

these negotiations to try to

15:24

get a deal and that

15:26

right now the ball is

15:28

in Hamas's court that there

15:30

could be an immediate ceasefire

15:32

if Hamas would agree to

15:34

the offer on the table.

15:36

That offer calls for Hamas

15:38

to release 33 hostages that

15:40

is women, children, the elderly,

15:43

people with severe medical conditions.

15:45

In return Israel would agree

15:47

to a ceasefire of around

15:50

40 days and the release

15:52

of thousands of Palestinian prisoners

15:55

potentially. Now Hamas says its

15:57

leaders are studying that proposal.

16:00

Their mediators were in Cairo yesterday.

16:02

It can sometimes take a few

16:04

days for Hamas as an organization

16:07

to respond, because it needs to

16:09

get messages to its ultimate leader,

16:11

Yahya Sinwar, who is in Gaza,

16:14

believed to be in the tunnels

16:16

underneath of Rafah right now. It

16:18

can take a couple of days

16:20

to get messages to him to

16:23

get messages back. But there are

16:25

many, many families, both in Israel

16:27

and in Gaza, who are hoping

16:30

that diplomacy will work and that

16:32

this ceasefire agreement will come into

16:34

effect. Back to you. Reporting

16:38

from Tel Aviv. I want to turn to one

16:40

of my teammates from the White House team here,

16:43

Mike Memeli, joining us to talk a little bit

16:45

more about a couple of different things here, Mike,

16:47

as you're traveling today with the

16:49

president making his way to Wilmington, we know, for a

16:52

campaign event. Let's talk a little

16:54

bit about how the Biden administration is

16:56

reacting to these latest comments by the

16:58

prime minister about Rafah. Well,

17:02

Aaron, they're not reacting to Prime Minister Netanyahu's

17:04

comments. When we heard from John Kirby of

17:06

the National Security Council today, he said he's

17:08

not going to speak for Netanyahu or comment

17:10

on what he had to say. But

17:13

he also did note that this ceasefire deal

17:16

on the table is one that has the

17:18

support at the moment of the Israeli government.

17:20

The ball is in Hamas's court at this

17:22

point. And what Kirby is hinting at here

17:25

is that what the highest priority for

17:27

the Biden administration is getting the ceasefire, not just

17:29

because they, of course, want to see those hostages

17:32

released, especially those American hostages. But they believe

17:35

that once a ceasefire is in place, despite

17:37

what Netanyahu is saying, is that they're prepared to

17:39

go into Rafah a deal or no deal. It's

17:42

incredibly hard to break a ceasefire to do that.

17:44

We know that the White House has made it

17:46

clear, both in the most formal setting, the conversation

17:48

that took place a couple of weeks ago in

17:51

a formal setting between the U.S. and the Israeli

17:53

delegation, the call between President Biden and Prime Minister

17:55

Netanyahu this weekend, they've been as clear as they

17:57

can be that they don't think they can. a

18:00

ground invasion is in Israel's best interest here.

18:02

They continue to press that privately

18:04

and publicly as well. But

18:07

this is also something where they hope if

18:09

they get to that ceasefire, it'll hold and

18:11

box out the Israeli options here. So Mike,

18:13

let's talk about the protests we've been seeing

18:15

here at home. The White House put out

18:17

another statement today after the building at Columbia

18:19

University was taken over in the

18:21

overnight hours. We've heard it from the administration,

18:23

right? Demonstrations speaking

18:25

out publicly, that's a good thing.

18:27

But violence and hate speech, that's

18:30

a bad thing. Is there actual

18:32

action the administration is considering or

18:34

even has the authority to physically

18:36

take on these issues? Well,

18:40

one of those authorities might be bringing in

18:42

the National Guard, and that was another thing

18:44

that the White House ruled out clearly today,

18:46

saying that's A, a prerogative for the governors,

18:49

but also it's not clear that there is

18:51

a violation of civil law here. It's campus

18:53

rules in most of these situations. But the

18:55

White House is obviously walking a very fine

18:57

line, especially as we are seeing the president

18:59

here holding a campaign event in a campaign

19:02

year. Youth support is so important.

19:04

This is obviously an issue that is animating some

19:06

people on college campuses. The White House, of course,

19:08

pointing out it's the minority. It's not even

19:10

the highest priority of young voters in

19:12

every poll that we've seen here. But

19:14

the White House is really making it clear,

19:16

as they did four years ago when we

19:18

were seeing protests across the country in the

19:20

wake of the murder of George Floyd, that

19:22

yes, we support some of the aims of

19:24

these protests, in this case, a ceasefire, but

19:26

not the means in which some of these

19:28

demonstrators are trying to show that. And so

19:30

they specifically called out in the most recent

19:32

White House statement the use of the term

19:35

intifada, but also the taking of that building,

19:37

saying it's just flat out wrong, Aaron. All

19:39

right. Mike memory for us today, traveling with the

19:41

president. Mike, thank you. Well, coming

19:43

up, we are headed to the courthouse

19:45

after Donald Trump is held in criminal

19:47

contempt and threatened with jail time for

19:49

violating a gag order. Plus,

19:51

House Democratic leadership publicly vowing to

19:53

protect Republican Speaker Mike Johnson as

19:56

he faces a motion to oust

19:58

him potentially any minute now. You're

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watching Meet the Press Now. Subscribe

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watch the short film The Aviators. Now

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playing at xfinity.com. Restrictions apply, access is very

21:06

in and out there indeed. The

21:31

judge imposed a $9,000 fine and issued a stern warning, continued

21:35

to violate the gag order and wind

21:37

up in jail. His ruling came just

21:39

before jurors heard additional testimony from four

21:42

witnesses today. Among them, Keith Davidson, the

21:44

former attorney for Stormy Daniels and

21:46

Karen McDougall. He testified about

21:49

negotiating with the National Enquirer for the women's

21:51

stories of alleged affairs with Mr. Trump in

21:53

the lead up to the 2016 election. I'm

21:57

joined now by NBC's Rahima Ellis outside the courthouse in

22:00

manhattan also with us katherine christian former

22:02

assistant district attorney in manhattan and now

22:04

in nbc news legal analyst right now

22:06

start with you here talk to us

22:09

about who testified today and and their

22:11

relevance to this case that the prosecution

22:13

is building there

22:16

are a lot of witnesses on the stand

22:18

today versus what happened last week in the

22:20

day before we heard mostly from david pecker

22:22

today we started out finishing up the testimony

22:25

of a banker a person who testified that

22:27

he was the one that

22:29

set up the account michael

22:31

cohen uh... wanted to have

22:33

together and the prosecution is alleging that

22:35

michael cohen use the money in

22:38

that bank account to pay

22:40

uh... stormy daniels also testified

22:43

today was any archivist for

22:45

c-span and he testified about

22:47

the fact that everything is the only

22:49

c-span is exactly the way that it transpired

22:51

there's no doctoring of the tapes

22:54

etcetera that testimony seems to be

22:56

important because was

22:58

pointed out that during one of the campaign rally though

23:01

so said he didn't know who kind of do will

23:03

be sort of a day before you didn't know these

23:05

women as was mentioned

23:07

last week his former executive

23:09

assistant was testifying that she was

23:11

in the room if you will

23:13

with bromby daniel was invited to

23:15

his trump tower office on

23:17

the twenty seventh floor of fifth avenue and

23:20

she went into a meeting with donald trump

23:22

and it was because of the belief that

23:24

so many daniels might be as helped to

23:26

be a purchase of these are for people

23:28

who've got on the fan including keep

23:30

david who was testifying right now he was

23:33

the talent agent and attorney or

23:35

karen david mick dogal and also

23:38

return of four uh... stormy daniel's

23:40

arin understand to that

23:42

eric trump was in the courtroom for at least

23:44

uh... part of the proceedings today or him uh...

23:46

can you talk to us about uh...

23:48

his role why he was there today if we don't

23:53

we don't know exactly but you could only

23:55

presume that there's been a lot of talk

23:57

about donald trump being in the courtroom alone

24:00

without any family members will today

24:02

one of the funds showed up and i spent the

24:04

day in the courtroom with his father uh...

24:07

we can only presume that it is a show

24:09

of support show uh... not

24:11

only the people in the courtroom but people

24:13

everywhere that his father does not stand alone

24:17

all right right now is for some new york

24:19

ramon thank you and kathryn i want to turn

24:21

to you that it sort of analyze what we've

24:23

seen today i really just went through what we

24:25

saw on the stand as far as witnesses go

24:27

what the and game for prosecutors at this point

24:30

in what they're trying to do what today all

24:32

about connecting all

24:34

the dots of the banker michael cohen's

24:36

banker corroborates michael cohen when he said

24:38

he took out a hundred thirty thousand

24:40

dollar line of credit from from the

24:43

bank the banker confirmed that that he

24:45

open up a shell company and that

24:47

he wired that hundred thirty thousand dollars

24:49

from that bank to uh...

24:52

stormy daniel's lawyer mister davison so when

24:56

the prosecutors give their summation they'll

24:58

probably say members of the jury michael cohen

25:00

told you x y and z and

25:03

that was corroborated by the testimony of mister

25:06

faro by mister pecker so

25:08

that's very important the uh...

25:11

bringing people to authenticate the c-span tape

25:13

and the transcript anytime a prosecutor or

25:15

defense attorney for that matter wants to

25:17

put in an audio or video recording

25:20

they have to prove that it hasn't

25:22

been altered with it hasn't been tampered

25:24

with the sort that day that also

25:26

shows me that the jury is going

25:29

to hear from donald trump not maybe

25:31

from him sitting at the witness stand

25:33

but the prosecutors intend to put audio

25:35

and videotape of him talking and so it

25:38

was just allowed so they're going to hear

25:40

from him that way and mister davison is

25:42

very important to represent the storm daniel's and

25:44

karen and doable so we have the doorman

25:46

getting up thirty thousand dollars from a m

25:49

i you have karen dongle getting a hundred

25:51

fifty thousand and then of

25:53

course the payment which is why we're here

25:55

on trial of the hundred thirty thousand dollars

25:57

to stormy daniel so they're all interconnected part

26:00

of what the prosecutors hope to

26:02

prove beyond a reasonable doubt this

26:04

conspiracy to promote Donald Trump's election

26:06

by unlawful means. So

26:09

let's talk about this gag order now.

26:11

Obviously that's been something at the center

26:13

of attention for several days. Now we

26:15

got a decision from the judge on

26:17

this violation of the gag order. How

26:19

unprecedented is it for a defendant

26:21

to be held accountable for violating

26:23

a gag order nine times at

26:26

least? It's unprecedented

26:28

as with everything that's going on

26:30

in this trial and everything involving

26:32

Donald Trump and his criminal cases.

26:34

So this was a very strong

26:36

order by the judge. Under

26:39

New York state law, the maximum amount

26:41

of fine that the judge could give

26:43

is a thousand dollars for each. So

26:45

people think nine thousand dollars is too

26:47

little. That's the most that a judge

26:49

could do for each violation. And

26:51

the judge even explained that. He said if

26:53

he could under the law, he would have

26:56

in light of how wealthy Mr. Trump is

26:58

given a hundred and fifty thousand dollar fine.

27:00

But he couldn't do that. He also threatened.

27:02

He gave himself some wiggle room. The judge,

27:04

he said if it's necessary and appropriate under

27:07

the circumstances, if there's a

27:09

willful violation of the gag

27:12

order, again, there may be

27:14

incarceration. So that's something

27:16

that's over Mr. Trump's head. I'm sure his

27:19

lawyers are taking that very seriously. I don't

27:21

know whether Mr. Trump is. So

27:24

and according to this judge, reposting

27:26

is an endorsement. You always hear

27:28

people say retweeting doesn't mean I'm

27:30

endorsing it. The judge said in

27:32

this case, yes, Donald Trump reposting

27:35

other people attacking witnesses or jurors

27:37

is his way of attacking witnesses or

27:39

jurors. So just one more

27:41

question for you. You talk about this jail time and the

27:44

size of the fine, what the law says. Judge Marchand acknowledged

27:47

that the small fine would probably not

27:49

do much to silence President

27:51

Trump. What you've got, he

27:53

said while one thousand dollars may suffice

27:55

in most instances to protect the dignity

27:57

of the judicial system to compel respect for.

28:00

its mandates and to punish the offender

28:02

for disobeying a court order, it unfortunately

28:04

will not achieve the desired result in

28:06

those instances where the, where the, uh,

28:08

contemptor can easily afford such

28:11

a fine. So as you mentioned, the law

28:13

says that's the ceiling, that thousand dollars, right?

28:15

Does a New York judge have any other

28:17

devices that they can use to compel compliance

28:20

short of jail and how much teeth

28:22

does that threat really have in this

28:25

instance? A reprimand

28:27

or it's the thousand dollar fine or

28:30

it's 30 days of incarceration. And

28:32

I don't see that happening. The 30

28:35

days of incarceration and the judge, as

28:37

I said, gave himself wiggle room if

28:39

it's necessary, if it's appropriate under the

28:41

circumstances, it might happen. And

28:44

it's because, you know, the elephant in the room is,

28:46

is the former president of United States Secret Service. So

28:49

that is a logistical nightmare. But we'll see

28:51

how Donald Trump behaves. Will he say, I

28:53

don't care and just willfully violate it. And

28:55

I think the judge is going to have

28:57

to, you know, put up a shut up if

29:01

that happens. All right. It is

29:03

that simple. We'll have to put up a shut up.

29:05

Well, I'll be watching to see exactly what goes down here.

29:07

Catherine Christian, we appreciate your time today. Thank you. You're

29:10

welcome. Well, just ahead, I'll

29:12

speak to the Republican Congressman Kelly Armstrong

29:14

about what's next for an unruly house

29:16

Republican conference and why he is among

29:19

the long list of Republicans choosing not

29:21

to come back to Congress. You're

29:23

watching Meet the Press now. Welcome

29:34

back. As we turn to Capitol Hill, where

29:36

later today we could see movement on the

29:38

motion to oust Speaker Mike Johnson, Georgia

29:41

Republican Congresswoman Marjorie Taylor Greene, who is

29:43

critical of Johnson for work with the

29:45

Democratic minority threatened again today to bring

29:47

her motion to vacate the chair to

29:50

the floor. Her latest threat

29:52

came after House Democratic leadership said they

29:54

would table any motion to oust Johnson,

29:57

a virtual guarantee that Johnson's job is

29:59

safe. And

30:01

joining me now is North Dakota Republican

30:03

Congressman Kelly Armstrong. Congressman Armstrong, we appreciate

30:06

you making some time today. I

30:08

do want to ask you first about Marjorie

30:11

Taylor Greene. She posted today, and we'll put

30:13

it up on the screen for our viewers,

30:15

Mike Johnson is officially the Democrat Speaker of

30:17

the House. If Democrats want

30:19

to elect him Speaker and some Republicans

30:21

want to support the Democrats' chosen Speaker,

30:23

I'll give the chance to it. I'll

30:25

give them the chance to do it.

30:28

She appears to still be threatening a

30:30

motion to vacate here, Congressman, even as

30:32

Democrats say that they would table such

30:35

a motion. Where do you stand on this? What's

30:37

your reaction? Well, I think the

30:40

overwhelming number of Republicans

30:42

support Mike Johnson. Disagreeing

30:45

on a particular policy issue with him is

30:47

no reason to vacate the speakership. I've had

30:49

a great relationship with him, a personal friendship

30:51

with him since I served on judiciary with

30:54

him. He's got the toughest job in politics,

30:56

and I think he's doing it admirably and

30:58

deserves to keep his job. Given

31:01

the support that you just talked about,

31:03

there's still this cloud hanging over his

31:05

head, this threat of potentially this motion

31:07

being made. If Representative Greene goes forward

31:09

with a motion to vacate, should

31:12

there be some consequences there inside the

31:14

conference? Well, I just think

31:16

when you're down to a two vote majority and possibly

31:18

a one vote majority, the idea that

31:20

one person can trigger the motion to

31:22

vacate, particularly in this time where people

31:24

are very much more interested in getting

31:26

media attention than solving problems, I think

31:30

it's just a math issue. It's

31:33

a silly math issue, and yeah, we should figure

31:35

something out. So you'd advocate

31:37

for changing the rule, for getting rid of

31:39

the one person ability to call for this

31:41

motion? Yeah, I just don't

31:43

know if we, I mean, you need a majority

31:45

on the floor. I just think when you have

31:48

a one vote majority and one member can do

31:50

it, I mean, it's the definition of the tyranny

31:52

of the absolute minority of the majority. It doesn't

31:54

make any sense and most people don't agree with

31:57

it. It's not good for our members running for

31:59

reelection. good for president trump running

32:01

for reelection not good for anybody who

32:03

understands that even as dysfunctional as congress

32:05

is it still has to be able

32:07

to function at its basic court we

32:10

talk about functionality here i mean the

32:12

speaker may have to rely on votes

32:14

from the other party to stay in

32:16

power do republicans really have a functioning

32:18

majority at this point why

32:20

do you think more than i mean more than that

32:23

i mean we do that i think our last rule

32:25

vote uh... prior to last week we lost a baby

32:27

and i think we had fifty five members vote against

32:29

the rule there's nobody that

32:31

controls my voting card and i don't expect anybody

32:34

in congress to vote how leadership tells them to

32:36

do at least not on our side of the

32:38

aisle but when you're not if you can't pass

32:40

procedural votes that you you take away the ability

32:42

to amend bills and all those things so that

32:44

has been frustrating for me you

32:47

were also part of the majority of

32:49

house republicans who voted against the ukraine

32:51

aid bill uh... that was drawn

32:53

up by your conference what's your explanation

32:55

why why why that vote yeah

32:57

and i think this is a perfect

33:00

example i mean there's twenty billion dollars

33:02

in non-lethal aid out of the sixty

33:04

billion dollars that goes to things as

33:06

administrative function diplomacy no

33:08

real oversight in it there's a lot of

33:10

members i think i would have liked to

33:13

have seen a lethal aid bill that gives

33:15

them exactly what they need and we're in

33:17

deal with that but there's already been a

33:19

history of that non-lethal aid having severe problems

33:21

with oversight and when a full third of the bill

33:23

is going to that impossible for

33:26

me to go to support it after

33:28

the history of that but there was

33:30

oversight in this package had twenty six

33:32

million dollars earmarked for oversight

33:34

right that that was enough for speaker johnson

33:36

why why would that not enough because

33:40

i think the history of it and what i think

33:42

the twenty billion wasn't necessary i think if you're talking

33:44

about the fight in the war effort and all of

33:46

those things going on providing the lethal aid is what

33:48

you create needs with plenty of allies to do all

33:50

of that so it's not just the oversight although

33:53

we went through that bill in the oversight of

33:55

that bill is not nearly sufficient for what i

33:57

think is needed for that amount of money So

34:01

you couldn't support what the speaker wanted

34:03

to do there. You do support the

34:06

speaker staying in the job that

34:08

he's in currently. Help

34:11

me to understand, given your vote

34:13

on Ukraine, for example, how you still

34:15

support Speaker Johnson. Because

34:17

I'm a grown-up and because

34:19

policy disagreements don't warrant

34:23

vacating the speaker. If I only voted for a

34:25

speaker I agreed with 100% of the

34:27

time, I'm not even sure I could support myself.

34:29

This is silly. It's the hardest job in

34:31

politics. He got thrown into it in the

34:33

middle of a Congress. He's doing an admirable

34:35

job working forward on these issues when he

34:37

had a divided conference on

34:40

the issue of Ukraine. I don't support the piece

34:42

of legislation from the Ukraine, but I support Mike

34:44

Johnson and I think he's doing a good job.

34:47

So you're going to be leaving Congress at the end

34:49

of this term, we know, as you run for governor

34:51

of your state of North Dakota. There

34:54

are two dozen of your House Republican

34:56

colleagues, including some pretty powerful committee chairs,

34:58

who are also opting to

35:01

retire while you're in the majority.

35:04

Help me square that. Do you think

35:07

that there's just this growing frustration about

35:09

serving in the House of Representatives right

35:11

now? Yeah, I think there

35:13

are a lot of people frustrated here. For me, I thought

35:15

I had the best job in politics. Turns out the best

35:17

job in politics open. When you're an at-large member and you

35:19

get to go be governor, I would

35:22

have loved to continue serving here. I actually really

35:24

enjoy, I think it's important work. But when you

35:26

have the opportunity to be the governor of the

35:28

greatest state in the country, you just have to

35:30

take that opportunity. But yeah, I

35:32

mean, there are a lot of people frustrated, schedules, all of those

35:34

different things. There are people here that

35:36

really want to get work done. And you know, particularly

35:39

people who've been around a long time. And you know,

35:41

the other answer, though, is you have to deal with

35:43

what's coming in front of you. And

35:45

I think for the most part, people are working hard to do

35:47

what they do best and that's helped their constituents. Well,

35:50

let me ask you about what a

35:52

governor Armstrong would do. There's an EPA

35:54

directive that came down this month that

35:56

would force coal-fired power plants to capture

35:58

smokestack emissions, or they would have to

36:00

shut down, right? You're running for governor of

36:02

North Dakota. If you were in office, what

36:04

would your response to that be? Would you

36:06

be looking to sue the government to stop

36:08

this? Not only

36:10

sue, but try and get an immediate

36:12

injunction. We've dealt with these issues for

36:15

my entire time. And it's actually uniquely

36:17

existential for North Dakota, because it goes

36:19

after mercury, which is particularly

36:21

prevalent in lignite. We

36:24

don't blend our lignite, but it's more

36:26

than just an EPA regulated mandate. My

36:28

hometown's temperature is 70 degrees below wind

36:30

chill in February of this year. And if you

36:33

don't have the ability to have your heat come

36:35

on, this is a real, real problem for places

36:37

like us. We do it better and cleaner than

36:39

everybody else, and we should allow North Dakotans to

36:41

regulate that as much as possible and keep the

36:44

EPA out of it. Because without coal fired electricity

36:46

in North Dakota, we've got real, real problems. Before

36:49

I let you go, Congressman, I do want to

36:52

ask you, last month you told my colleague Kristin

36:54

Welker that you, you, you did not have enough

36:56

votes to impeach president Biden in

36:58

the house and that there was no smoking gun

37:00

in the investigation that's been going on there.

37:03

It's been a few weeks now without really

37:05

any real action by this committee. What's

37:08

your understanding of why this inquiries is

37:10

still open? Well, I, first

37:12

of all, I think we should be pushing the DOJ as

37:14

hard as we can to get the audio tapes of the

37:17

president's interview with his ghost writer. Long

37:19

before I got into politics, I practiced in federal

37:22

court and the last thing I'm ever going to

37:24

do is listen to a prosecutor tell me what

37:26

is the best evidence. By any stretch of the

37:28

imagination, if those things exist, we should go get

37:30

them. But I mean, eventually Chairman Jordan, Chairman Comer

37:33

are going to have to make a decision whether

37:35

it makes sense to continue down the investigative road,

37:37

road or direct the report because we do

37:39

have the election timeline that you don't typically

37:41

have in these investigations. All

37:44

right. We will leave it there for now. Congressman

37:46

Kelly Armstrong of North Dakota, sir. We appreciate your

37:48

time today. Thank you. Thanks

37:51

for having me. And after

37:53

the break, we are live in Florida where

37:55

patients are racing to receive last minute care

37:57

before the state's new six week abortion ban.

38:00

takes effect tomorrow. You're

38:02

watching Meet the Press Now. Welcome

38:12

back. With Florida's six-week abortion ban set

38:14

to take effect tomorrow, clinics are rushing

38:17

to provide services before time runs out.

38:19

Florida's current law allows the procedure up

38:21

to 15 weeks. The stricter ban will

38:23

not just cut off access for Floridians,

38:26

but also access for millions of women

38:28

across the South and the Caribbean. Florida

38:31

resident and presumptive Republican nominee Donald Trump

38:33

has taken credit for overturning Roe v.

38:35

Wade, which paved the way for Florida's

38:38

laws that we're seeing now. In a

38:40

newly published interview, Mr. Trump repeated his

38:42

position that the issue is now left

38:44

to the states, saying even if some

38:47

states want to monitor women's pregnancies or

38:49

prosecute women for having abortions, that's

38:51

up to them. President Biden

38:54

slammed the former president's comments,

38:56

calling them, quote, reprehensible. Joining

38:58

me now from Jacksonville, Florida is NBC's

39:01

Marissa Parra. Marissa, how are clinics there

39:03

in Florida now preparing for this new

39:05

law to take effect tomorrow? Well,

39:09

in short, they've been working double time,

39:11

Erin, and we have seen abortion clinics

39:13

showing us exactly that and talking about

39:15

exactly that. And so what's interesting and

39:17

that people outside of the state of

39:19

Florida may not realize is that abortion

39:21

care clinics today already began the process

39:23

of turning patients away. And that is

39:25

simply because the way the law stands

39:28

as it is today, where there's a current 15 week

39:30

abortion ban, it requires two visits minimum.

39:32

So you have a consultation one day

39:34

and then you have to wait 24

39:36

hours minimum before you either get the

39:38

medication or have that procedure. So what that

39:41

means is if somebody came in today who

39:43

was six weeks, even if it was five

39:45

weeks, even if it was just one day

39:47

short of six weeks, if they came in

39:49

today for that consultation, they would

39:51

have been turned away simply because that six

39:53

week ban with a couple of exceptions goes

39:55

into effect tomorrow. And so we had a

39:57

chance to speak to a variety of people.

39:59

whether they were volunteers, employees, or like

40:02

the clinic director, we spoke to

40:04

you in Fort Pierce, Florida just

40:06

yesterday. We've

40:08

warned everybody's call that it's changing and

40:11

nobody knew. A lot of girls

40:13

don't know that this is happening. You were

40:15

getting phone calls from people that had no idea. No

40:17

idea. No idea. What

40:20

did they say when you told them? Are you

40:22

kidding me? That's what they're saying. Are you kidding me?

40:25

And patients who are already 10 or 12 weeks, and

40:30

we couldn't get them in on

40:32

Saturday for the first part to come back today.

40:36

They have to go out of state. So

40:41

something that I thought was striking, Erin,

40:43

is she mentioned the people who had

40:45

no idea that this ban was going

40:47

into effect tomorrow. Something else that we've

40:49

also found that people don't know about,

40:52

particularly women seeking abortion care before

40:54

they go to have their consultation, they

40:56

often don't know how far along they are.

40:58

They will think that they're four weeks along

41:00

and it isn't until they get that ultrasound,

41:02

that first consultation, they find out that they

41:05

are in fact six weeks or further. And

41:07

so this is part of that last minute

41:09

rush here, that abortion clinics across the state

41:11

are telling you they've seen. We're talking about

41:13

double, even triple sometimes, the amount of appointments

41:15

they would normally have trying to get every

41:18

person they possibly could in

41:20

before this effect, this law goes into

41:22

effect tomorrow. Erin. Yeah,

41:24

Marissa, a second ago we showed a map that

41:27

shows Florida and other Southern states

41:29

that have different restrictions. It's on

41:31

the screen there again now on

41:34

abortion access. What is what we're

41:36

seeing in Florida now mean for the rust of

41:38

the region and the question of where people can

41:41

go if they're seeking this

41:43

sort of reproductive healthcare? And

41:47

that's such a great point. It's something I

41:49

hear often. And I wanna keep that map

41:51

on the screen because you can see just

41:54

how strict the laws are in the surrounding

41:56

states. We're seeing either a full or near

41:58

total ban in those states. surrounding

42:00

the state of Florida. And so up

42:02

until tomorrow, we had people coming

42:05

in from out of state to seek abortion

42:07

care. We have clinic directors calling this now

42:09

soon to be an abortion care desert. And

42:11

I'll point one thing out. The reason we

42:13

chose Jacksonville, Erin, is because we're close to

42:15

the state border. When we spoke to the

42:17

clinic director, she said one in three women

42:19

who come to this clinic are from out

42:21

of state. And now they're preparing to tell

42:23

everyone to go to other states to seek

42:26

abortion care. Erin. Marisa Parr

42:28

for us in Jacksonville, Florida. Marisa, thank

42:30

you. We'll still

42:32

become how far would Donald Trump

42:34

go if reelected? The former president

42:36

talks about his future plans for

42:38

migrants, January 6th rioters, women seeking

42:40

abortion and more. The panel's next.

42:42

You're watching Meet the Press now.

42:54

And welcome back. Let's get right to

42:56

our panel now. Betsy Woodruff Swan, national

42:58

correspondent for Politico, FAS-Shakir, senior

43:00

advisor to Vermont independent Senator Bernie Sanders

43:02

and Mark Short, former chief of staff

43:04

to vice president Mike Pence and NBC

43:07

News contributor Betsy. I'll start with you.

43:09

Obviously we're watching the former president Trump,

43:11

his trial wrapping up for the day

43:13

today. So far, we know that there were

43:16

efforts by the campaign to start fundraising

43:18

on this gag order almost immediately after

43:20

we learned what the judge's ruling was

43:23

here. It almost seems as though this

43:25

was a part of the strategy. Like that email was waiting

43:27

to go out. He's definitely going to

43:29

recoup the nine grand that he had to

43:31

pay to take care of that contention problem.

43:33

It's going to be the best nine grand

43:35

he's spent in a long time. Trump and

43:37

his team have been incredibly effective at taking

43:40

any possible legal issue that ever arises

43:42

in relation to him and using it

43:44

for his political advantage. And it's just

43:47

this very strange dance that Trump and

43:49

the Trump campaign have to deal with

43:51

where on the one hand there's extraordinary

43:53

legal jeopardy, but at the same time

43:56

the politics overall, in a

43:58

way that's truly mind bending, have been really. helpful

44:00

to him back, way back when the Mar-a-Lago

44:02

raid happened, and Mark would probably know this,

44:05

with an extreme level of detail, that was

44:07

a key political moment for Trump in the

44:09

Republican primary and very much made it much

44:11

harder for anyone who wanted to run against

44:14

him as a Republican to get any

44:16

sort of leverage. Mark, you know, say

44:18

what you will about the charges, right?

44:20

This was a violation of a judge's

44:22

order, regardless of where you stand politically.

44:25

So how does something like this

44:27

sit with the law and order

44:29

voters that were supporters of

44:32

President Trump and are supporters of the Republican

44:34

Party? Well, Aaron, I think it can be

44:36

a law and order conservative and still have

44:38

concerns about these first two trials that are

44:40

brought against the former president. I think for

44:42

many people they believe they are politically charged

44:45

prosecutions. I do think

44:47

as well, to Betsy's point, there's no doubt that

44:50

the president does an amazing job

44:52

of playing victim and rallying support. I

44:54

do think it certainly benefited him a

44:56

lot more in the primary than potentially

44:58

it will in the general election. But

45:00

he's masterful at finding ways to benefit,

45:02

perhaps, on the fundraising side in the meantime. I mean,

45:05

yes, he maybe feels they're politicized,

45:07

Mark, but you're running for president

45:09

and you're an executor of the nation's laws. That's

45:11

really the job. Totally, president of the United States,

45:13

executor of the nation's laws. And

45:16

there's a disregard for laws, a disregard for a

45:18

system of checks and balances. That's his attitude. That's

45:20

his belief. He just doesn't believe in the rule

45:22

of law. At the same time, we have now

45:25

this threat, if you want to call

45:27

it that, of jail time, that the judge has included

45:29

in his order today saying that he didn't think that

45:31

the $9,000 was going to

45:33

have much of an impact. And so there's the

45:35

potential for jail time. How do

45:38

you think that plays into the general

45:40

election and the potential for a former

45:43

president and a nominee for president

45:45

potentially being put in jail? For a normal person,

45:47

I think we all fear jail time. We don't

45:49

want to go there. That's not a place that

45:51

would be conducive to running for office. I think

45:53

Donald Trump likes it and enjoys it. It's a

45:55

different ethos, not one that I can relate to,

45:57

but I think he thinks that would be beneficial.

46:00

in his warped world. I

46:02

wanna talk a little bit too about the Time

46:04

magazine piece that we've been looking at over the

46:06

last several hours since it came out. There

46:08

was a piece of this that sort

46:11

of begs the question, how much should we take Trump's

46:13

comments to Time magazine as campaign

46:15

promises and how much should we look at

46:17

it as sort of just campaign talk? I

46:20

think it's safe to take it seriously as campaign

46:22

promises. He's been consistent about wanting to erode

46:24

any sort of separation between the White House

46:26

and the Justice Department. That was something he

46:29

tried really hard to do when he was

46:31

president. And the only reason it wasn't successful

46:33

was because he was surrounded by quote unquote,

46:35

Team Normal as his former campaign manager called

46:37

it, lawyers at the top of the Justice

46:39

Department and in the White House who said,

46:41

we're not doing this, no, no, no. If

46:44

he gets reelected, none of those people

46:46

will be back, zero. And instead he'll

46:48

be surrounded by folks like Jeff Clark,

46:50

who's under indictment for his role in trying to

46:52

help Trump reverse the results of the 2020 election. So

46:55

it'll be much easier for him to take

46:57

steps to just obliterate those norms than it

46:59

would have been last time he was president.

47:02

Mark, is that the plan? I mean, is

47:04

the plan to surround himself with yes men

47:06

and that is the platform, that's the policy

47:08

of a next Trump administration? Well, I concur

47:10

with Betsy, but I think my concern is

47:12

actually the way the media's frame is he

47:14

felt like he didn't go far enough and

47:16

he wants to go farther. And my sense

47:18

is the exact reverse. In many ways, he's

47:20

retreating back from the conservative principles of the

47:22

four years he governed with, whether or not

47:24

it's on international affairs, whether or not it's

47:26

walking away from his commitment to

47:29

life, whether or not it's backtracking on TikTok, where he

47:31

once proposed a ban and now opposes

47:33

the ban. I think for many conservatives, it's

47:35

actually the rhetoric might be sounding stronger, but

47:37

the reality is the policies advancing are not

47:39

in line with the conservative principles of four

47:42

years he governed. And he may waste retrieving

47:44

from those. I mean, in an

47:46

interview with the Time Magazine today, he's indicated

47:48

to me, at least he said he was

47:50

comfortable with monitoring women's pregnancies. He would not

47:52

be for medical abortion. He was very anti-choice

47:55

from my perspective. And at least on that

47:57

score, I thought he was very clear about

47:59

white wing. views on choice, I also

48:01

seem to indicate that he was like, wait

48:04

and see on how he might

48:06

react to losing a presidential election. This

48:09

is a person who I've used unfit for office. One

48:11

thing that people should- Again, that's not a conservative liberal

48:13

spectrum though. One thing people should absolutely

48:15

take seriously as a campaign promise is his

48:17

comment about pardoning the January 6th defendants. That's

48:19

something that he's spoken about for months now,

48:22

if not longer, the fact that he reiterated

48:24

it in this very formal setting to a

48:26

reporter who was asking about what he was

48:28

doing. People should certainly bank on

48:30

him issuing lots of pardons if he's elected.

48:33

Mark, how do you see that? If that is the case, he

48:36

would have come to the office and start pardoning people who have

48:38

been convicted of these crimes that

48:40

were essentially against your former boss. Well,

48:42

I think it was broader than

48:44

against former boss. I think that there were

48:46

a lot of police who were injured in

48:48

those events. I think that would be a

48:50

far bigger concern to law and order conservatives

48:53

than prosecuting somebody for paying off all the

48:55

loans in the first trial here in

48:57

New York. I think from a law

48:59

and order perspective, I'd have a lot more concerns

49:01

about providing full absolution to

49:03

those who I think hurt and injured police than these

49:05

trials going on in New York. Would

49:08

you serve in another Trump administration? Oh, I don't

49:10

think he'd ask me to serve another Trump administration,

49:12

Aaron. He should. Would you do it?

49:15

I have no belief that he would have any interest

49:17

in that, but thanks, Fazza. Mark's not standing individually. He'd

49:19

need more people like him. Well, we'll leave it there.

49:21

I won't put you on the spot too much with

49:23

that. But Fazza, I do wanna ask you, the Biden

49:25

campaign has really leaned into the

49:28

former president's response about abortion,

49:30

as you just noted there. Is that something

49:33

that you think is the right tact

49:35

for the campaign, the Biden campaign

49:37

to take? We've seen several emails

49:39

come from them already today. They're

49:41

prepping additional response specifically to what

49:43

the former president said. Is that

49:46

a winning track, or should there be

49:48

another direction that the campaign should be

49:50

pursuing more? Very winning track. So yes,

49:52

they should continue to make a

49:54

visit. And in fact, in the time interview, the

49:57

president was asked about his position on Mr. Pristone.

50:00

Indicated I don't I don't know what my position is.

50:02

I'll have to tell you later So there's gonna be

50:04

many more chapters of this to come because the president

50:06

is seemingly putting his finger in the wind and trying

50:09

to figure out where he stands on a fundamental

50:11

moral choice of choice So I

50:14

think the Biden campaign is right to make a

50:16

very clear campaign argument that Roe v. Wade served

50:19

this nation quite well for a long period of

50:21

time We should return to and then the Republicans

50:23

Betsy have a response don't have a response How

50:25

does how does a president Trump stand up against

50:27

that coming from the Biden campaign? It's it's very

50:30

uncomfortable for Trump because so much

50:32

of the party is still staunchly opposed

50:35

to abortion to abortion being broadly

50:37

acceptable That's a definition of part of

50:40

what it meant to be a Republican for decades And

50:42

now the fact that the party's standard bearer is is

50:44

to your point You're putting his finger in the wind

50:46

to figure out where he should come down now that

50:48

creates significant discomfort on Capitol Hill All right, we

50:50

will leave it there for now Betsy marks as

50:53

we appreciate you being here today I'm back tomorrow

50:55

with more meet the press now the news continues

50:57

with Hallie Jackson right now You