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1:30

tax cut for better off households with children.

1:33

Half a million will be able to keep

1:35

more of their child benefit. So how do

1:37

they make sure they get it? But first,

1:39

national insurance. A tax millions of

1:41

working age people pay on their wages is

1:43

being cut this weekend, for the second time

1:45

this year. From April the 6th,

1:48

employee national insurance will be cut

1:50

by another 2P from 10% to

1:52

8%. Chancellor

1:56

Jeremy Hunt making the announcement in his

1:58

spring budget last month. The main

2:00

rate of national insurance has now fallen by a

2:02

third from 12% last year

2:05

to just 8% from today. The

2:07

savings for individuals will depend on what they

2:10

earn, of course, the biggest savings by the

2:12

highest pays who pay the most tax. And

2:14

for someone lower incomes, the cut in national

2:16

insurance will be worth less than the extra

2:19

tax due because tax re-allowances have been frozen

2:21

while wages have gone up. Our

2:23

reporter, Ema Devlin, spoke to people in a

2:25

park in Ban Bridge in Northern Ireland. Well,

2:28

definitely the pay hasn't gone as far as it has

2:30

been. I'm just scraping pay, just scraping pay. Compared

2:33

to where I was maybe 15 years ago, and

2:35

that before I worse off. It should, I do

2:37

think it would make a difference, but I'd probably be better

2:39

to say it sort of to know that way, but I

2:41

do think that probably would make a difference. I

2:43

was aware there was a cut coming up, I didn't know

2:46

it was as soon. I don't think it's going to

2:48

make that big a difference to people's outcomes, having to pay

2:50

that well to a few pounds less. How

2:52

are you feeling about your pay and the cost

2:54

of living at the moment? Well, it doesn't get

2:56

you very far. I work a lot of extra

2:58

shifts now, so yeah. Do you feel that

3:01

that cut is going to make much of a difference to you? No,

3:03

probably not. I'm sure everything else is going up, isn't it? Are

3:05

you aware that there's to be a cut to

3:07

national insurance this again? I didn't realise

3:10

that until you told me. So this is actually

3:12

the second cut of the year, did you know

3:14

that? Right, no. It might not make

3:16

that much of a difference for all I actually earn,

3:18

you know that way. So, ill-awareness is better than nothing,

3:20

every little help. People

3:22

in Banbridge talking to Emma Devlin with

3:24

me in the studio is Alex Clegg,

3:27

an economist at the Resolution Foundation, a

3:29

research organisation that concentrates on people with

3:31

low and middle income. Alex Clegg says,

3:33

who pays national insurance and how will

3:35

this cut work? So

3:37

it's paid by people of

3:39

working age on earned

3:41

income only, that's how it differs from

3:44

income tax. There's around 27

3:46

million workers paying it. And

3:51

at the start of 2023-24 the rate was about 12% and it's cut

3:53

to 10% in January and then it's going to be cut. cut

4:00

again to 8% on today. Yes,

4:03

and those people in Banbridge that we heard

4:05

from, many weren't aware of the changes, so

4:07

they will have had one cut already, weren't

4:09

they? And I thought on average

4:11

pay, it'll be about 30 pounds a month more,

4:14

38 pounds a month more in your pay packet. So

4:16

do people not notice amounts like that? I

4:18

think there's been so much going on with the

4:22

cost of living crisis, with energy

4:24

bills soaring and things like that. I think there's

4:26

a lot of changes coming in as well in April. I think a lot

4:29

of people are feeling

4:31

a lot of pressure, and so they might

4:33

not notice something so small, but then of

4:35

course, like the interview, they

4:37

said, every little helps. Yes, and so

4:39

the second reduction this year, what's it worth

4:41

at different wage levels? So

4:45

it's worth up to 1,500 pounds this year, but

4:48

that's for the richest, and it's actually people

4:50

earning over 50,270 pounds. And

4:55

it kind of gradually ramps up to

4:57

that amount. The

5:00

average is about 500 pounds. Right,

5:03

so about 500 pounds, and

5:06

of course, that the Treasury told me, the

5:08

average over the whole two cuts

5:11

was 682, but that's not someone

5:13

average wages, that's the whole average. And

5:15

what about the personal allowance though, because

5:18

that has been frozen, that's the amount of

5:20

income we can have tax-free, isn't it? That's

5:22

been frozen. Has the

5:25

fact that it's not gone up cost

5:27

more for some people than this cut in the

5:29

national insurance? Yes, it has. I

5:32

think to fully understand how

5:35

people are going to feel a difference, you have to

5:37

consider both changes together. We

5:39

estimate that four in five people, four

5:41

in five employees will still be better

5:43

off, but

5:45

people earning less than 21,000 would

5:48

have been better off just with the normal threshold of rating.

5:51

And of course, 21,000 is roundabout minimum wage,

5:53

isn't it? Yeah. The new national living wage

5:56

is a bit below. Just a bit below.

5:58

So people on national living wage. we'll

6:00

see a small increase in

6:02

their take on pay. And obviously the national

6:04

living wage has gone up a lot as

6:06

well. Yeah, it's typically part-time workers that are

6:08

going to be worse off than they were.

6:11

Right, and of course the personal allowance fees, which

6:13

we mentioned, and we've talked about a lot on

6:15

Moneybox, but when we spoke

6:17

to the Treasury about this, it likes to

6:20

go back five Prime Ministers and seven chancellors,

6:22

count them, to 2010, and

6:24

said that it's risen above inflation since

6:27

then. And in fact it would

6:29

be less now if it had just risen

6:31

with inflation. So that's an advantage for people.

6:34

Yeah, and the big policy of the, well

6:36

one of the big policies of the David Cameron,

6:39

George Osborne years was

6:41

to increase that tax threshold above

6:43

inflation. But freezes of the

6:45

last four years have been reducing the

6:48

value again. And we've estimated that

6:50

by about 2027, we're going

6:53

to be back where we started from, as if

6:55

there'd been no change. Right, so they've given it

6:57

to us, they're taking it back year by year.

6:59

And just tell me fairly briefly about self-employed people,

7:01

because they're getting cuts as well, aren't they? Yeah,

7:03

so self-employed people pay two kinds of

7:06

national insurance, just

7:08

to make it a bit more complicated. So

7:11

they pay, at the moment they pay 9% on

7:14

earnings above 12,570, and

7:17

they also pay a flat rate of

7:19

three pills a week, 3.35. And

7:22

the flat rate's getting scrapped, and

7:24

the 9% is getting cut to 6%. Yes,

7:26

yes, from, yeah, 9% to 6%. And

7:31

these changes, as I understand it, will come in immediately.

7:34

So from anything you earn from

7:36

today, I just hope that listeners

7:38

notice and expect from the Resolution

7:40

Foundation. Thanks. Now, not

7:42

all taxes are going down or staying the

7:44

same. Council tax has risen from this week.

7:46

The household is in England and Wales, usually

7:48

by a lot more than inflation. That'll

7:51

be another blow to the increasing number

7:53

of people who just can't afford to

7:55

pay it. Figures shared exclusively with Moneybox

7:57

by the debt charity Stepchain show... One

8:00

in three of those who came to

8:02

it for help were behind on their council

8:04

tax payments. Their average council tax debt was

8:06

more than £1,700. And

8:09

citizens' advice supports those findings, saying that

8:11

for those who came to it with

8:13

debt, council tax arrears were second only

8:16

to energy bills. Our reporter, Sarah Rogers,

8:18

went to Wrexham in Wales, where bills

8:20

are up almost 10%. The

8:23

town, of course, has become famous for

8:25

its football club ties with Hollywood after

8:27

being bought by actors Ryan Reynolds and

8:30

Rob Michael Henny. There are tourists outside

8:32

having their photos taken. I'm going to

8:34

go a little bit further down the

8:36

road to the Butty

8:38

Van. Bigger number from from East Wrexham. Yeah.

8:40

We should talk about something a lot

8:43

less glamorous. Council tax, because here

8:45

it's gone up by just under

8:48

10%. So if you're in an

8:50

average bandy property, that's £171 a year. Hi,

8:55

Del, you all right? I'm a steward, being a

8:57

steward for 22 years. Right,

8:59

what are Ryan and Rob like? Fantastic.

9:01

Are they? Yes. He's very nice and

9:04

highlighted to everybody. And what's your

9:06

name, sir? David. David, can I talk to

9:08

you about something slightly less glamorous? What?

9:11

Council tax bills. Beyond

9:13

a joke. Way beyond

9:15

a joke. Will you struggle to

9:18

pay that extra? Oh, God, I'm struggling

9:21

now. Will it put you into

9:23

debt? Yeah, it already has. You

9:26

council tax specifically, yeah. Yeah. Never

9:28

mind anything, girl. East London hard

9:31

going. Very hard going. We

9:33

started off the conversation quite positive, talking

9:35

about Wrexham, your job as a steward and... But,

9:39

you know, I'm struggling. I've

9:41

stayed at East London. Yeah, boy.

9:45

Could I just have chips and beans, please? Bad

9:47

mind, yeah. It's gone up to two and a

9:49

half grand, man. I can't see where it all

9:52

goes myself. Yeah, do

9:54

you have an understanding of where that money is

9:56

spent and what it's for? Well, it's to empty

9:58

your bins, isn't it, for the police? God

10:01

I think I'd empty my own bin I think every week

10:03

to be honest. I couldn't tell

10:05

you one thing about Kansallstacks or anything, I've gone

10:07

straight over my head. Luckily I'm still living at

10:09

home. Does it? It does put you

10:11

off. The lad I work with now, he's just bought a

10:13

house actually, he's moving in in six weeks. I hear him

10:16

briefly talking in the van on the way to work and

10:18

stuff moaning about, oh I didn't realise you have to pay

10:20

all this for this and this for that. Oh

10:23

that looks nice, what did you order? I've

10:25

slashed right for it. But I've been avoiding it for a while

10:27

because I've been cutting back as it is anyway. I've been talking

10:29

to people about the Kansallstacks bills. I've

10:32

been just talking to my favourite, I've put it on site

10:34

and haven't even looked yet. That is a lot. Yeah. You

10:37

haven't looked? No, haven't even looked yet. No,

10:39

don't know. Do you know how

10:41

much they're going up here? No. Well it's

10:43

just short of 10%. It

10:46

is going to be shocking yeah. So

10:49

yeah, no, I haven't looked so I'm

10:51

not going to be looking today anyway. Are you

10:54

just very bad at the sound a little bit? Yeah

10:56

definitely, yeah. But yeah, we're going

10:59

to struggle. People

11:01

in Rexxham talking to Sarah Rogers and

11:03

Sarah's in our Stolford studio. Sarah, the

11:05

rising Kansallstacks this year particularly high, what

11:07

does Kansallstacks pay for and how is

11:10

that level decided? Well it pays

11:12

for things like rubbish collections, like you heard

11:14

there in Rexxham, as well as social services

11:16

and the police. Ordinarily, depending

11:18

on what they do, local authorities in

11:20

England can raise Kansallstacks by up to

11:22

4.99% and go even further with government

11:25

permission. Some

11:28

have done that this year in Birmingham where the

11:30

Kansall has effectively declared bankruptcy. Their rise will be

11:33

21% over the next two years. Gosh,

11:37

so how much more can people generally expect

11:39

to pay? Well the average bill rise in England

11:42

will be £106 for a bandy property. That

11:45

takes a total to £2,171. In

11:50

Wales, where councils have more freedom to

11:52

set rates, the average increase is £145.

11:56

The equivalent tax is called rates in

11:58

Northern Ireland. but it pays for the

12:01

local services in the same way. The

12:03

rises there this year vary from around

12:05

4 to 10 percent, but in Scotland

12:07

council tax has been frozen. And what

12:09

have councils told you about why it's

12:11

gone up so much? The local

12:14

government association which represents councils in

12:16

England and Wales told me that

12:19

local authorities are starting the financial

12:21

year in a precarious position. In

12:24

Reksam the council echoed that and

12:26

said costs and demands for services

12:28

were up. The Welsh government

12:30

says it was feeling equivalent pressure as

12:32

a result of investment decisions by the

12:35

UK government. Meanwhile the department

12:37

for housing told me it recognised the

12:39

challenges and there was an additional 600

12:42

million pound support package for councils

12:44

across England. And also Sarah

12:46

if you had a second home then council tax could

12:48

go up even more. Yes from 2025 councils

12:52

in England can charge up to double

12:54

the full rate of council tax on

12:56

properties not being used as a main

12:58

home. In Scotland and Wales those powers

13:00

are already in use. In Wales councils

13:03

can charge up to quadruple the tax.

13:05

Goodness thanks Sarah. You're listening to that is

13:07

Peter Tarton head of policy and the step

13:09

charity step change. And Peter Tarton we heard

13:11

from David earlier who said he's in debt

13:13

already. How many come to you in the

13:16

last year with council tax arrears and how's

13:18

that changed? So about a third of the

13:20

people we say have council tax arrears and

13:22

actually that's been going up for a while.

13:24

We can take it back to about

13:27

10 years ago when council support

13:29

schemes were cut. And since

13:31

then of course the cost of living is putting more

13:33

pressure on households so we think we can put council

13:35

tax on higher bills. And how much is the average debt

13:37

that when they come to you? So what we're seeing

13:39

now is council tax bills on average of over 1700

13:41

pounds. Go back three

13:44

years and it was about 1100 pounds so

13:46

that's a huge increase. Yes that's nearly a

13:48

year's council tax for most people. And that

13:50

may sound a silly question but how do

13:52

you expect this rise that's just happened to

13:54

affect those debt figures? Well we think it's

13:56

going to react to the pressures households are

13:58

already under. We're seeing council tax debts

14:00

rise for a combination of both cost of

14:03

living increases but bills going

14:05

up so that's going to make the

14:07

situation worse. Yes now local you mentioned

14:09

council tax reduction scheme that helps

14:11

people on low incomes in councils

14:13

but councils now as you mentioned set

14:15

their own level for that and their

14:17

own rules within a sort of framework.

14:19

The local government association it speaks of

14:21

course for councils in this area and

14:23

says a record number of people are

14:25

claiming that help if they're claiming it

14:27

why are they still in debt. So

14:30

firstly it's good that councils are helping

14:32

more people's claim that's important but council

14:34

tax support won't necessarily cover the whole

14:36

of your council tax liability so what

14:38

we have at the moment and is

14:41

people who are facing a liability for council

14:43

tax that they just can't afford to pay

14:46

so it's an impossible situation that is then

14:48

made worse by the kind of quite heavy

14:50

enforcement of council tax debt that can follow.

14:53

Yes I mean certainly in England everyone

14:56

however low their income has to pay something

14:58

is that right almost everywhere in England.

15:00

It depends it varies which doesn't help

15:02

from local authority to local authority but

15:05

there will be people on very low incomes

15:07

will face a liability that they just can't

15:09

afford. Yes and people can't afford

15:12

it they come to you with this big

15:14

debt what if they can't pay what happens

15:16

then? So if people can't pay council

15:19

will send reminders if you missed instalment

15:21

the current rules on how council tax

15:23

debt is enforced mean that can accelerate

15:25

the year's balance very very quickly and

15:28

councils will go they get a liability

15:30

order which adds costs then very often

15:32

we find it being passed out to

15:34

bailiffs which acts as considerable costs which

15:37

is obviously very stressful and people end up doing

15:39

things like borrowing more to deal with the bailiff

15:41

enforcement. Yes because that's something that frightens people

15:43

bailiff enforcement and as you say you've got

15:46

people who can't afford to pay their bill

15:48

and then they have to pay more to

15:50

the bailiffs and through the whole process and

15:52

ultimately can people go to jail

15:54

for this? So in England it's still in there

15:56

is a sort of imprisonment then but it's at

15:58

the end of a long process and it

16:00

doesn't happen to many people. I think what's

16:03

more important is that we don't have good

16:05

standards, good practice standards that are binding on

16:07

local authorities to ensure they do the right

16:09

things in collections and we don't have statutory

16:11

regulation of bailiffs that make sure that that

16:13

enforcement is fair and doesn't cause more problems.

16:15

Yes and so people listening who maybe they've

16:17

not come to anyone for help or they

16:19

just think it's going to be very hard

16:21

to pay the bill this year or they're

16:23

already perhaps in arrears, what can

16:25

what should they do? Well first it's

16:27

always worth talking to your council actually

16:30

councils do a lot of good stuff and it may

16:32

be that you can get council tax support and other

16:34

help that you haven't. There's other discounts aren't there in

16:36

various certain. Exactly and other pots of help that may

16:38

be able to help you. If you're struggling with council

16:40

tax and maybe other debts as well you know go

16:42

and seek some advice from Stepchain,

16:44

citizen advice, a free

16:47

debt advice charity that can help you out and

16:49

deal with you help you out with multiple debt

16:51

problems. Yes and as we often say always the

16:53

free debt advice don't pay anyone for it. Peter

16:55

Tutton from Stepchain thanks and of course as Peter

16:57

was saying council tax is just one bill that's

16:59

going up and on this week's Moneybox

17:02

live on Wednesday at 3. Felicity Hannah

17:04

is looking at ways to manage your

17:06

budget when money is tight. Maybe you

17:08

can share some useful tips or tell

17:10

us about the problems which rising prices

17:13

are causing you and worrying you. Email

17:15

Moneybox at bbc.co.uk she'd love to hear

17:17

your thoughts. Half

17:20

a million better off parents get

17:22

a 600 million pound a year

17:24

tax cut from this weekend. They're

17:26

in a household with dependent children where at

17:28

least one parent has an income between 50

17:31

and 80 thousand pounds a year. The

17:34

means test that effectively takes child

17:36

benefit back from better off parents

17:39

is being relaxed for the very first time

17:41

since it began in 2013. From

17:43

today each individual partner can earn up to

17:46

60 thousand pounds a year

17:48

before their payments begin to be taken

17:50

away by what's called the high income

17:52

child benefit charge and that's up from

17:54

50 thousand. The highest paid partner can

17:56

earn up to 80 thousand before child

17:58

benefit is taxed away completely. And

18:00

it is a valuable benefit to have. It's from today, in

18:02

fact, it's over £1,300 a year

18:05

tax-free for one child, £3,000 a

18:07

year tax-free for three. Some Money What's listeners

18:09

told us what they made of the changes.

18:12

I'm married with three children, three

18:14

girls. We've never claimed any child

18:16

benefits. The main reason being that

18:19

I've always been in that upper

18:21

income whereby we haven't been eligible

18:23

and the changes now perhaps mean

18:25

that we might be eligible but

18:27

I haven't looked into it in

18:29

a lot of detail. I have

18:31

a two-year-old son currently in nursery

18:33

three days a week at the

18:35

moment whilst my wife and I

18:37

work full-time. My salary is higher

18:39

than what the upper limit was

18:41

prior to the changes that came through in

18:44

the budget. So it will be of benefit to

18:46

us. The only challenge I've got with it is

18:48

it feels quite complex to work out some of

18:50

the mechanisms in terms of if you're over six,

18:53

you're up to 80, then you have to

18:55

pay some back. That's kind of where some of

18:57

the challenges are. I married with two young daughters,

18:59

seven and the other one, or shortlyly five

19:01

years old. So you can imagine it's a busy

19:04

family life. When my

19:06

first daughter was born, I claimed it for about six

19:08

months. So that was seven, eight years ago when my

19:10

salary was lower, I was able to claim it

19:12

without the tax implications. And then I

19:15

think as my salary grew within about

19:17

12 months or so, I then

19:19

stopped claiming for it. But then I think the stamina

19:21

of it isn't it why you registered so that my

19:23

wife still continues to benefit the pension contributions. So I

19:25

think I just left it at that point in time

19:28

and I honestly haven't gone back to

19:30

it since. I do believe that those

19:32

that earn more should pay more, but

19:34

the cost of living crisis affects everybody.

19:37

We're definitely not immune from that. I guess I'm

19:39

thinking of how much is it worth the hassle

19:42

of messing about with tax returns, etc.

19:45

I mean, that's two weeks worth of

19:47

food shopping. That's the difference between us

19:49

potentially going

19:56

on holiday for a

19:58

week, making the norm. difference.

20:00

Some Moneybox listeners there on the changes.

20:02

Now although the change begins this weekend

20:04

many of those affected will actually have

20:06

to take action to benefit from it.

20:09

With us is Dr. Marianne Stevenson, director

20:11

of the Women's Budget Group which provides

20:13

a feminist economic perspective. Dr. Stevenson we

20:15

heard from male partners there, they're the

20:17

ones who contacted us and they're often

20:19

a higher earner but this

20:22

is an issue that affects women. Child benefit is for

20:24

women isn't it? Well

20:26

child benefit is for children but it's normally claimed

20:28

by the mother and we

20:30

know that over 80% of the people who are

20:33

currently not claiming child benefit who would be entitled

20:35

to it are women. So yeah

20:38

it's predominantly a women's issue. And just tell

20:40

us a bit more about how this high-income

20:42

child benefit charge works and what's changing, how

20:44

it will be from in fact from today.

20:47

So previously child

20:50

benefit started being tapered off if

20:52

there was a partner, if one

20:55

parent was earning more than £50,000 a year and

20:57

by the time you reached

20:59

somebody earning over £60,000 a year you didn't

21:01

have any entitlement at all. That's now being

21:03

changed so the threshold is being raised to

21:05

£60,000 a year and you can earn up

21:07

to £80,000 a year before it's taken away.

21:13

So that's obviously based on individual

21:15

income not household income so you

21:18

could have previously two partners earning

21:20

just under £50,000 a year who

21:22

were entitled to child

21:25

benefit whereas for example a lone parent

21:27

earning just over £50,000 a

21:29

year wouldn't be entitled to anything. Yes and that's

21:31

what we get a lot of complaints about I

21:34

must say that particular unfairness as they see it

21:36

and of course from now on if a single

21:38

parent or one partner earns more than £60,000

21:41

a year then it begins to bite

21:43

but between them a couple could have

21:45

just about £120,000. I mean that

21:48

seems a high income for a couple to many

21:50

people and that rule hasn't been

21:52

changed has it? Well

21:54

I mean what I would say is that

21:56

I don't think child benefit should be

21:58

means tested at all. I

22:00

think child benefit is a recognition of

22:02

the additional costs of having children. There

22:05

are countries around the

22:07

world, lots of European countries,

22:09

that provide a non-means tested

22:11

benefit payment to families

22:14

to recognise the cost of receiving

22:16

children. It's absolutely true that higher

22:18

income people should pay more, but

22:20

we shouldn't target parents in particular who

22:22

have higher costs. We should look at

22:25

doing that through the mainstream tax system.

22:27

Yes, and of course when it was introduced it was

22:29

to replace the tax allowance, which of course people got

22:31

without a means test, wasn't it? This is going back

22:33

to 1978, 2075. But

22:37

now this means test started in 2013. Even

22:41

the Chancellor though says this wasn't fair

22:43

because it penalises those households with one

22:46

high earner, and he said the government

22:48

will consult on moving to a household-based

22:50

system by April 26. Given

22:53

that you, I mean I know you don't think it should be a means tested

22:56

at all, but what are your thoughts on that

22:58

change and how it might happen? Well,

23:00

we're concerned that that might

23:02

lead to household

23:04

best. This

23:07

is one of the problems at the moment with

23:10

the high income benefit charge,

23:12

that it undermines the principle of

23:14

independent taxation because it makes the tax

23:16

that one person pays dependent on

23:18

the actions of the other person.

23:20

An independent taxation is very

23:22

important to women because they tend to be

23:25

the lower earners in a household. If you

23:27

have joint taxation, what tends

23:29

to happen is the man uses the

23:31

entire tax allowance against his earnings, and

23:33

for a woman, for example, considering returning

23:36

to work after a career break, if

23:38

you combine the marginal tax rate she'll be

23:41

paying with, say, the cost of

23:43

childcare, she may decide it's not worth doing,

23:45

which means she's less likely to end the

23:47

labour market. Yes, the Treasury did say the

23:49

government remains committed to the principle of independent

23:51

taxation, but we'll see how that works out.

23:54

And briefly, if you would, Mary Ann,

23:57

more than one in ten families don't claim child

23:59

benefit now because of those hassles that we were

24:02

hearing about earlier. Should they now

24:04

claim? I

24:06

think everybody who has a child

24:08

should claim child benefit because it

24:10

entitles you to national insurance contributions.

24:12

So even if your partner has

24:15

to pay that money back through their

24:17

tax return, there's a lot of women

24:19

who should be entitled to national insurance

24:21

contributions because they're at home looking after

24:23

a child. But if they're not claiming

24:25

child benefit, they won't be. So it

24:27

is worth making that claim even if

24:29

you're prepared back. Everyone should

24:31

claim, and indeed some people will be better off

24:33

by doing so. Mary Ann Stevenson of the Women's

24:35

Budget Group, thanks very much. Well

24:37

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