0:00

Hello everybody, welcome back to the show.

0:02

My guest today is Gary Vaynerchuk. He's

0:04

an entrepreneur, speaker and an author. Most

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people would like to increase their reach

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online, to connect with people that they

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respect and have access to a bigger

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audience, which leaves two questions. Is this

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something you actually want? And if you

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do, how can you grow your platform

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in 2024? Expect

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to learn why attention is more valuable

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than ever, how to actually become relevant

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in 2024, what it takes to be

0:28

authentically yourself in your personal life and

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online, what social platforms Gary's excited about

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over the next few years, how he

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deals with criticism, how to know when

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to monetize your following, and

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much more. Gary is one

0:42

of the OGs of this industry and

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love him or hate him, he has

0:46

a very specific set of skills and

0:49

those are building and continuing

0:51

to grow online platforms. And today we get to

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find out some of his best tips if you're

0:55

someone who cares about your ability to reach online.

0:57

I think that there's a lot to take away

1:00

from this one. Also, we get some reflections about

1:02

his internal states and personal story and reflections over

1:04

the last two decades of kind of being a

1:06

personality on the internet. It's very good and I

1:08

hope that you take lots away from it. But

1:12

now, ladies and gentlemen, please

1:14

welcome Gary Vaynerchuk. What

1:35

do you think most people don't

1:37

understand about how attention works? How

1:42

long are we in this? This could

1:44

take the entire show. I think that

1:47

there's many things, I think, for

1:49

the corporate marketer that's watching right

1:52

now or listening, meaning

1:54

someone that works at a company, not

1:57

an advanced company. Let's call it the

1:59

Fortune 50. not even 500. They

2:03

don't realize that they're living

2:05

in a academia boardroom environment

2:08

on intention. They're trading

2:11

on potential attention, not

2:13

actualized attention, historic attention,

2:15

not actualized attention. They're

2:17

not day trading attention.

2:20

They're buying attention of the past.

2:24

Even though I think deep down, they know they're not

2:26

buying it. Meaning for simple

2:28

terms for everyone, by the way, hi

2:30

everyone. Thanks for having me on the

2:32

show. The reason most companies still spend

2:34

an ungodly amount of money on television,

2:36

outdoor billboards, print ads, banner

2:42

ads or pre-rolls or bad

2:44

digital stuff is

2:47

because their internal reports say

2:49

there's attention there. And

2:51

so the way corporate works is

2:53

based on boardroom and fake reports.

2:56

So I think that whole set, what they

2:58

don't understand is where the actual attention is. Do

3:01

I think they know? Do I think the 48 year

3:03

old that works at Tesla or

3:05

BMW or Mountain Dew, do I

3:07

think they know? The

3:09

62 year old, do I think they know?

3:11

I think they actually really know. But I

3:14

think they also know that if they buy

3:16

TikTok media, that that hasn't

3:18

made its way into their media

3:20

agency, conglomerate, their corporation, and it

3:23

won't show up as ROAS positive,

3:25

return on investment positive. So what,

3:28

and I think because of that, they're not

3:30

practitioners. When I went through COVID on Zoom

3:32

with hundreds of CMOs, because now we had

3:35

the opportunity to do that, I

3:37

was not flabbergasted, but

3:40

I was reminded how most of

3:42

my great friends and contemporaries in

3:44

corporate America marketing are so far away

3:48

from being a practitioner of

3:50

social media creative, of what's

3:52

going on with micro influencers, of

3:55

my belief that people like yourself are

3:57

going to really disrupt CBG, because

3:59

not only- Have you built organic audiences? Not

4:02

only do you know how to make actual

4:04

content that people wanna watch, but then even

4:06

when you do advertising, you can outflank them

4:08

because you understand that the first second of

4:10

a video on a TikTok or Instagram matter,

4:12

that the thumbnail matters, that the copy matters,

4:15

that slang, the terminology, and more importantly,

4:17

that you know that you'd rather spend

4:19

your money on social creative

4:21

media or influencers over so many

4:23

other behaviors they do. So that's

4:26

where attention is completely misunderstood in

4:28

private equity, venture capital, Wall Street,

4:30

corporations, Fortune 5000, Madison Avenue. On

4:34

the art world side, all the people that are, more

4:37

than half of the people that

4:39

are watching right now, emerging influencers,

4:41

creators, entrepreneurs, hustlers, grinders, the ambitious,

4:45

I don't think they understand that it's

4:47

everything, and then thus they're

4:49

playing at a seven. Like the

4:52

people that we all see in

4:54

our feeds, our circles, the Austin,

4:56

Miami, LA, the crew, I

4:59

think everyone's at a seven. Meaning

5:02

they might have Instagram or TikTok down, they

5:04

might be doing a podcast, they might be

5:06

vlogging, they might know who

5:08

the micro influencers are, they've watched me

5:11

from the OG days all the

5:13

way through all the beasts and the Pauls

5:15

and the D'Amelios and the Nelk boys and

5:17

the Us, and they've seen it all, but

5:21

I don't think on a day-to-day, this is why I

5:23

called it day training attention. I

5:25

don't think, when I look at the best,

5:28

the people with millions of followers, I can see that

5:30

they're still doing 16 months ago

5:32

tactics, four

5:35

months ago tactics, whether it's

5:37

the thumbnail, the copy, the carousel,

5:40

and definitely for the

5:42

A players, why they're

5:44

not A plus, why they're B minus, they

5:47

don't fuck with LinkedIn enough, they

5:49

either are YouTube shorts

5:51

or TikTok or Spotlight

5:53

staff or Instagram, and

5:55

they're not all, there

5:58

are very few people on earth. And

6:00

I'm proud to be one of them that

6:02

is actually doing day-to-day

6:04

creative, organic social on all

6:07

of them. And I mean all of

6:09

them. And takes YouTube

6:11

short nuances very seriously

6:13

different than what X

6:15

Twitter does. And so for the A

6:18

players, the B players, the reason

6:20

they're not A plus is they're not

6:22

diversified enough against enough platforms. And

6:25

they're not once they hit, they start to

6:27

get distracted about other things. Rightfully, so they

6:29

expand, they start CPGs, they start going to

6:32

Coachella and hooking up, they start doing up,

6:34

they start thinking about other things. And

6:37

it doesn't allow them and every one of them knows

6:39

it, right? Like think about the contemporary set. It's fun

6:41

that Coachella just happened. Every one of them knows it

6:43

that when they were 16, 19, 23, 27, they were

6:45

24 seven obsessed with whatever they were obsessed with. And

6:51

then when they start winning a little bit, they take a

6:53

little of the pedal and they start smelling the roses and

6:55

that's amazing. But it

6:57

means that there's opportunity. And for a lot

7:00

of them, they've plateaued. Right? Four

7:02

years ago when I was yelling about TikTok, a

7:05

lot of people wanted to stay in Instagram because they had a

7:07

million followers there and it was good for their ego. And

7:10

so they didn't want to start at zero on

7:12

TikTok. And now what's happened is a lot of

7:14

those influencers, creators, entrepreneurs are rushing

7:16

to catch up. And what I wanted to do

7:19

in this book is tell everybody like attention is

7:21

it. It's like working out. You're in

7:23

great shape clearly. Like, okay, you could do

7:25

it well for four years, but if you take off for

7:27

two years, like shit's going to happen. And

7:30

I just want people to stay on it. And

7:32

so what I think that people misunderstand that attention is

7:34

very detailed. Like I just broke down two sets. There's

7:36

many more, but it's

7:38

very nuanced and detailed within. It seems like the

7:40

two big groups there are one, despite

7:43

the fact that social media is almost everything that people spend

7:45

their time on their phones doing. It's

7:48

still underpriced and undervalued by most.

7:51

And definitely corporations, which is what, and there's all the

7:53

money up there. So it allows

7:55

us kids. That's your

7:57

competitive advantage. Be more agile, be closer to the

7:59

ground. Okay. And then the second side of

8:01

that to be, I guess, like a combination

8:04

of even people whose

8:06

jobs are social media, still

8:08

a misunderstanding of how

8:10

much leverage is available about how broad to

8:12

go and about how deep to go. And

8:14

then this temptation to take your eye off

8:16

the ball. If some success does come, you

8:18

know, yes, almost everybody is less

8:21

successful than they would like to be. Almost

8:23

everybody is a C to Z list player

8:25

that's listening and not a B or an

8:27

A grade player, which means that the thing,

8:29

the incentive and the impetus, which is going

8:31

to slow down the people at the very

8:34

top is the competitive advantage for the people

8:36

that are further down the ladder. Correct. And,

8:38

and, and the reason I framed it

8:40

as day trading attention. Yeah. Tell me

8:42

about that. Well, I think, you know,

8:45

day trading is something not everybody knows

8:47

what that is, but a lot of people know what

8:49

that is. And that's a very different way of buying

8:51

stocks than the way I buy them. Like

8:53

I'll be like seven years ago and like, you know

8:55

what? Netflix is going to win my enemies

8:57

on Netflix and I'm going to go to fucking sleep. You

9:00

have maniacs right now all over the world. So

9:03

you've got like create aggressively but trade lazily.

9:06

Yes. And so for me, I wanted people

9:08

to understand that tension is that way too.

9:10

And so I'm glad that you crushed it

9:12

and went from obscurity to a million YouTube

9:14

subscribers and you're crushing, but you're 23 and

9:16

you still have huge ambitions and you're talking

9:18

all sorts of shit that you're the next

9:20

Mr. Beast. But guess what? I know you're

9:23

not because you've already taken the foot off

9:25

the pedal the last month and shit's happened.

9:28

And by the way, that's okay. I'm not

9:30

here to say be a fucking psycho. I'm

9:33

just saying the game is psycho. And

9:35

if you want to play it, you have an

9:37

opportunity and you have to think of it this

9:40

way because the styles, the jokes, the slang, the

9:42

platforms, the algorithms, all of its

9:44

moving nanosecond by nanosecond. And either you're

9:46

about that fucking life or you're not.

9:48

You'll love this. So my housemate Zach

9:50

is way more terminally online

9:52

than I am. I don't use TikTok personally, but

9:56

Z does. And he is

9:58

an honorary CMO. of my

10:00

company, Chief Meme Officer, and he will

10:02

tell me six

10:04

months before something becomes mainstream

10:07

on Instagram what's going

10:09

to be the new meta on

10:11

TikTok. And then six months after

10:13

it's mainstream on Instagram, it then

10:15

becomes the new meta kind of,

10:17

it breaks down into mainstream media.

10:19

Like at the moment, the pedestrian-cooked

10:21

gasoline-maxing, walk-pilled cities

10:24

of America, you know, whether it's

10:26

being dialed or locking in, like

10:28

all of the language moves so

10:30

quickly. And he'll tell me about the

10:32

new meta, and then we'll use it

10:34

in ads on Newtonic. And then that'll

10:36

spin away, and I'll need to keep checking in

10:38

with him. I'll need to get the weather report.

10:40

Yes, I was in San Francisco getting a coffee

10:43

before my talk. Guy in line says, oh

10:45

my god Gary Vee, you know, very flattering,

10:47

nice little chat. Guy who

10:49

rings us up is a dude has nail

10:51

polish. Rings us up. He taps

10:53

me, after we had a nice pleasantry and I

10:55

took a picture with him, he taps me on

10:57

the shoulder again. He goes, do you remember

11:00

like a couple years ago you said male makeup was going

11:02

to hit? He's like, look

11:04

at the guy who just wrung us up. I'm seeing

11:06

that everywhere. I'm like, yeah. He's like, how'd you know

11:09

that? I'm like, I live in the fucking dirt. Your

11:12

buddy Z lives in the dirt. In the

11:14

end, you're either an A and R.

11:16

This is an old music thing. Back

11:18

in the 80s, how'd you just 70s, how'd

11:20

you discover Metallica or Guns N' Roses? You

11:22

had to be fucking up at two o'clock

11:24

in the morning and go into the bars.

11:27

And that's how you discovered Nirvana. You

11:29

either were an A and R that not only put in

11:31

the work and was out

11:33

to two in the morning, three in the

11:35

morning in LA and Seattle and New York

11:37

and hip hop clubs. You also had the

11:39

ear, right? So Zach, your buddy is not

11:41

only putting in the time, there's a fuckload

11:43

of people putting in the time. He clearly

11:45

has a talent to have a sense, he

11:47

has a smell of what might

11:50

hit. Yeah, he's picking up trends. Okay, so

11:52

let's say that someone isn't toward the top

11:54

of the tree. Where

11:56

do people fall short

11:58

when it comes to building relevancy

12:01

and attention online now in

12:03

2024. Right

12:06

this nanosecond as we film and record this,

12:09

the biggest framework perspective issue

12:11

in the game is people make

12:14

content for selfish reasons versus selfless

12:16

reasons. The

12:18

number one thing that I think hurts people

12:20

that are not winning is

12:22

because look, some people are just gonna be attractive

12:24

enough. Some people are just gonna

12:27

be charismatic enough. Some people

12:29

are just gonna have enough experience and expertise in

12:31

something that it's gonna be enough. You

12:33

own a tactic that's more reliable and scalable than

12:35

that. Yeah I mean just like the three things

12:37

I just mentioned, like that's just a DNA game

12:40

or a circumstance game. For me, I wasn't

12:42

attractive enough. Maybe I

12:44

was charismatic enough, but I started making business content

12:47

at 34. I'd already been

12:49

doing it my whole life and I'd

12:51

already built a very large business on

12:53

day trading attention on email, search, YouTube,

12:55

social. So I had the skills, I wasn't

12:57

18. I'd lived through it

12:59

already and could speak to it. Not

13:02

that 18 year old, by the way for all the 18 year olds,

13:04

I was hustling since I was 10. I

13:06

had things to say at 18 that were right. But

13:09

I had experience. I think for the rest

13:11

of the crew that isn't that yet, there's

13:13

so much opportunity, but I think

13:15

even for the people that have the luck of

13:17

the draw or the ones that don't, the

13:20

big game is most people make content

13:22

to become famous, rich, to scratch their

13:25

own egos and insecurities, it's selfish. I

13:28

can tell you right now, no question, the

13:30

biggest reason I think a

13:32

lot of things work for me and things I

13:34

observe in others is when I post something, I'm

13:37

like, what's in it for them? One

13:40

of the reasons I never post like bougie

13:42

shit is I don't understand what's in it

13:44

for the audience when you show them that

13:46

you're drinking champagne on a private plane. Once

13:49

in a while, when I say this, I'll get

13:51

a DM or a text from a buddy, be

13:53

like, no, bro, it's aspirational. You're like, bro, there's

13:55

unlimited aspirational shit out there, you don't need to

13:57

contribute it. Fuck you, you're doing it to flex.

14:00

So for me, the first thing that people

14:03

need to think about is why is this

14:05

good? Now, if you're a magician that does

14:07

card tricks on TikTok, it's good because that's

14:09

entertainment. It's the reason people go to Vegas

14:11

shows. It's why we watch TV. Entertainment's good,

14:13

humor's good, King Batch, what is it, like

14:16

he brings value, he makes me laugh. Then

14:18

there's people that give information, inspiration. There's a lot of

14:20

things you can do, right? And

14:23

so I think the framework of what's in it for

14:25

them versus what's in it for me will

14:27

really help most people listening right now, especially

14:29

given like how sharp I think the audience that listens

14:32

to you is. They're thinking

14:34

of it very smartly from a business standpoint, from

14:36

a level, like it's the game, right? It's the

14:38

game. I just, if they just added

14:40

a little bit of like, yes, I

14:42

understand you're trying to figure out what will go viral, what will

14:44

over index, what will work, how do I make it happen? How

14:46

do I build myself up? I wanna be a speaker, I wanna

14:49

have a podcast, I wanna be an actor, I wanna own a

14:51

sports team, whatever. Just fuck, man.

14:53

Just something of like, can you say something

14:55

or do something that actually will bring value

14:57

to someone? Before we started this, you're like,

14:59

hey, mate, like the book went pretty like

15:01

deep on the content. That's how I thought

15:03

about writing the book. We literally have this

15:06

kind of a right before we started. The fuck

15:08

am I writing this book for? Because I was

15:10

ready to go so detailed because

15:12

I know that people that are good, like

15:14

winners, the kids, the zacks out there, that

15:16

they're gonna listen on audio or read the book and

15:19

they're gonna get their fucking $19 worth of

15:21

what the fuck Amazon's gonna sell it for because

15:24

they're gonna get one tactic, one

15:27

that tweaks it and gets them value. And so

15:29

I think the first thing that they need to

15:31

focus on is the perspective of what's in it

15:33

for them? I know why you're doing it. You

15:36

want, what do they want? What's good

15:38

for them? So you're talking about adding

15:40

value? But in a real fucking fundamental way. Like

15:43

in the same way that those corporate fuckers

15:45

know they're buying bullshit and not social, I'm

15:47

asking all the hustlers, all the winners, you

15:50

know you're doing this for you. Just add

15:52

a little fucking something for them. How can

15:54

you judge that? Because it's very difficult to

15:57

extract our own ego from the desire to

15:59

grow our own. online platform, we want to

16:01

be validated by the world around us. Even

16:03

the most delusional, the

16:05

most not conscious of us. I

16:08

just believe in the human spirit when I say

16:10

this. I think even the ones that

16:12

are the least in touch with our feelings, the

16:14

ones that have done the least amount of mental

16:16

work, the ones that are

16:18

most cynical, even those people, I think as they're

16:20

listening to us right now, can have a sense

16:23

of when they post something, are

16:25

they trying to bring value to the person on the other side at all?

16:28

Have you got a more hard and fast rule

16:30

than that? No, I don't. I think- So

16:32

do you know, here's one from a friend,

16:34

George Mac. He has Mac's content razor. Would

16:36

you consume your own content if not don't

16:38

post it? Yeah, I think that's wonderful. I

16:40

think the reason I say no, I don't

16:42

and why I think that's wonderful, I think

16:45

it all sits in the same cousin tree

16:47

of analogies that one can use in this

16:49

moment. It's

16:51

not super complicated. What's in it for

16:53

them? Is this good? Did

16:55

you say something that brings value, whether

16:58

you're being vulnerable and creating a connected,

17:00

vulnerability is a powerful one. There's a lot of people winning

17:03

out there. This

17:05

was interesting. Literally when I landed last night, late

17:07

last night, I've been traveling like crazy this week. I

17:10

literally tweeted, man, it's been a week. And

17:12

I was- I saw the photo of you

17:14

in the back of the car. Yeah, exactly. And I was

17:16

like, this has just been, I was without context, and this

17:18

is why written word has no context. I was really like,

17:20

I didn't want to spell it all out.

17:22

I just kind of wanted to go with a quick tweet.

17:24

I was talking from the lens of like, man, this feels

17:27

like 2016. Right? It

17:29

was like, New York to Miami, Miami to West Palm,

17:31

West Palm to Miami, Miami to San Francisco, San Francisco

17:33

to Austin, back to New York, like

17:35

at midnight tonight, then Saturday, Utah, back to New York.

17:37

All in one day, like I'm like, ooh, this is

17:39

a 2015 life. But I

17:41

had a lot of people hit me up on DM, on Instagram,

17:44

be like, you cool? Because they're not

17:46

used to- they interpreted it as like, maybe

17:48

I'm struggling or having a pothole or something.

17:50

And that was very lovely. And it reminded

17:52

me how much

17:54

vulnerability stops people in

17:56

their tracks, provides values, allows people to

17:58

be compatible. fashion it towards you. And

18:01

so there's a lot of ways to bring value. I

18:04

think Max Rule is absolutely right. Like would you consume

18:06

it? Like what, I'm always like, what's in it for

18:08

them? That's the one I go into my

18:10

brand. What's in it for them? Talk to me about

18:12

the role of authenticity online now. Look,

18:15

I think people talk a lot about this and I

18:17

think it's obviously very important. And I,

18:19

and the reason I think about it from importance is I

18:21

think, I don't think it's very important short term. I

18:25

think it's incredibly important long-term. Let me explain.

18:28

Authenticity is

18:30

something that gets exposed out over time.

18:34

You know that this, I think is gonna really land for you

18:36

and a lot of listeners. Lots of

18:38

people are tricking lots of people in the short term. Right.

18:41

So the reason I like authenticity is why

18:44

I'm on book seven, why I'm still here,

18:46

why in the 2007, eight, nine social

18:50

media world of just Twitter and a little bit

18:52

of Facebook, there was a lot of

18:54

personalities. And by the way, I was probably the front

18:56

runner to not be around a year later because I

18:58

came out and I'm so loud, I'm so over the

19:00

top. I'm so ridiculous. And

19:03

in 2007, cursing and casual dressing was so

19:05

not in vogue. And I remember the whispers

19:08

in the back stages. I read the tweets

19:10

of like, oh, the wine guy from Jersey,

19:12

Gary Vee or whatever his name is, he'll be gone

19:14

in a year. That's clearly just sizzle. And

19:17

so for me, authenticity speaks to like why I'm still here

19:19

in 24 and why almost

19:21

everybody I met in 2007 is not here. And

19:24

I think, you know, what is the importance of it?

19:27

I think it's a incredible indicator

19:29

of longevity. I

19:31

think in the short term, it's hard to dissect.

19:34

Most people don't really know people. People

19:36

pop out, they get hot for their looks,

19:38

their smarts, their what have you. What

19:40

I like about authenticity is I think it is

19:42

incredibly grounded in the marathon more than the sprint.

19:44

So I think for all the kids that are

19:47

listening, good news, you can win in the short

19:49

term with not being authentic. You can fake the

19:51

funk. You can trick people to fucking at scale,

19:53

especially with AI coming all sorts of shit. You'll

19:55

be able to trick the fuck out of people

19:57

for a little while and then you'll

19:59

be exposed. And then what are you going to do with the rest

20:01

of your 90 years of life? Well,

20:03

hypocrisy on the internet is like catnip

20:06

for people because you remember, you have a play, you

20:08

might not have been to a British pub in sort

20:10

of the 2000s. There were

20:12

these touch screen games that was spot the difference

20:14

and it was done with a timer and you

20:16

had to hit the differences between the two things.

20:19

Hypocrisy is basically like an ideological equivalent of that

20:21

game. You said this thing in the past, you

20:23

did this thing in the future. I can

20:25

compare what you stated from what you did or

20:28

what you said and what you said. And I

20:30

see there's a discordance here and I'm

20:32

going to bring it to bear because it's so perfectly

20:34

designed for social media because I have the screenshot of

20:36

the thing that happened before the video and I have

20:38

the video of now and people can compare and contrast.

20:41

Yes, two dynamics on that. One, for everyone

20:44

who's listening, that doesn't mean you're not allowed to

20:46

change your mind. Of course. Right. I think that's

20:48

one of the most powerful, wonderful things

20:51

of the human. And to your point, if

20:53

one then goes and owns that, speaks to

20:55

losses, says, hey, I used to now I,

20:57

so you're in control of that to your

20:59

point when you're trying to say you didn't,

21:01

that starts to kill the lack of authenticity.

21:03

The other thing that's interesting about what you

21:06

just said is, man, deep fake videos. What

21:08

a game changing reality we're about to walk

21:10

into. Like, you know, one

21:12

of the things I think a lot about is that

21:14

people find what they're looking for. So

21:17

if you're looking for negativity, you're going to find

21:19

it. If you're looking for positivity. Miserie loves its

21:21

company. Yeah. I think with all these

21:23

fake videos, I mean, the amount of videos of you and

21:25

I that will be on the internet in the next seven

21:28

years, next 10 years of things we never

21:30

said literally

21:32

in a decade from today, most people will not believe

21:34

any of the videos they see on the internet because

21:36

there'll be more fake ones than real ones. We're

21:38

going into such a wild era that is

21:41

going to reset so many things of truth, hypocrisy,

21:43

things of that nature. But yes, I have enjoyed

21:45

that. I'm with you on what you just said.

21:47

It's been interesting to watch that. I have a,

21:50

I got asked by a friend probably about a

21:52

year ago. I apologize. Can I give

21:54

you a great example? Because I don't think a

21:56

lot of people sit in both the creator influencer,

21:58

entrepreneur world and in the fortune. 500

22:00

marketing world, my favorite hypocrisy happens

22:02

in corporate America. When you're

22:05

the CEO of an old media company, you're

22:07

like, print TV, it's awesome. And then they

22:09

go and get a job at Facebook or

22:11

Twitter or Snapchat. And they're like, social media

22:13

is number one. But I'm like,

22:15

two weeks ago, you just said that TV was number one.

22:18

The hypocrisy of corporate animals based on what

22:20

they're selling is at the highest

22:22

level. What's funny about that is that's such

22:25

a vaulted world that very few of us are going

22:27

to see. Correct. You can see

22:29

all LinkedIn posts or tweet or Instagram

22:31

story or whatever. But that thing,

22:34

you maybe get to see in boardrooms and

22:36

C-suites and stuff like that. Or if you

22:38

just, most of the people listening don't read

22:41

adage or adweek or PR week. No one

22:43

reads that. That's right. Right? And

22:46

so this little industry that spends all of the $70

22:48

billion on television, all the crazy shit that goes on

22:50

in the world in marketing, this goes back to the

22:53

really exciting part of this conversation. And

22:55

this book to me is the

22:57

biggest companies in the world are blowing it. And

23:00

individual little human beings like you and I

23:02

have the ability to get market share in

23:04

a way that has never existed in the

23:06

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notes below or heading to nomadic.com That's

24:00

nomadic.com/modern wisdom. Just

24:07

to round out the authenticity piece, I

24:09

think, I heard this

24:11

sentence a couple of years ago and I haven't been able to

24:13

stop thinking about it, speed running authenticity,

24:15

people trying to do that. And that's what

24:18

you were talking about before. Like how can

24:20

I growth hack my way to seeming like

24:22

I'm telling the truth, seeming like I'm actually

24:25

putting me into my content.

24:27

So I've been working very hard on this over the

24:29

last six months or so. When I first started the

24:31

show, I wanted to be seen as a justifiable,

24:37

verifiable, reliable intellect. I wanted to have,

24:39

I was coming out of a time

24:42

being a reality TV person, model, club

24:44

promoter, professional party boy. And I wanted

24:46

to signal I am someone with real

24:48

intellectual chops, right? So I

24:50

almost sort of counter signaled from opening up.

24:52

I thought that that was sort of unrational

24:55

and unsophisticated. You know, if my hero is

24:57

someone like a Jordan Peterson or a Sam

24:59

Harris, you know, I'm not seeing them getting

25:01

super emotional. I'll do some of that changes

25:03

now. Anyway, recently

25:06

I've tried to put more of myself

25:08

into the content. Two things has happened.

25:10

First thing is when I get compliments

25:13

about it, when I'm recording it, I feel better.

25:15

When I get compliments about it, they genuinely land

25:18

because I invested some of myself into it. The

25:21

other part is I actually think that I

25:24

think that people see the humanity on the

25:26

other side of that, like the way

25:28

that it makes people feel when you put some

25:30

of you into it, not just playing the role.

25:33

Anyone can win by

25:35

saying the right mouth noises. It's

25:38

can you do that and it actually be you?

25:41

That's the question. And there is a way

25:43

you're right over a long enough timescale, you're rolling

25:45

the dice of playing a role. Eventually you might get

25:47

rumbled. You might thread the needle and dance through the

25:49

minefield and get out the other side fine. But

25:53

none of that success is going to land with you in

25:55

any case. It's going to be hollow because on the other

25:57

side of that, it's going to be you looking back on

25:59

this. illustrious history of you being

26:01

somebody else. Is that success? It doesn't look

26:03

like success to me. I

26:05

think that was extremely well said and it was funny. I

26:08

wanted to let you roll, but all my

26:10

urges, because I love to jump in and I know I get

26:12

razzed for that at times, but it's just how my

26:14

brain processes. The way you

26:16

started that whole soloquy was

26:19

the most interesting part. Everyone

26:22

is dead on arrival on authenticity when they

26:24

start a sentence with, I want it to

26:26

be seen as. It

26:29

was crazy how my spidey senses went off when

26:31

you started that, because what I realized when you

26:33

said that was like, right, that's why this has

26:35

always worked for me. I've

26:37

never had the ability to be seen as.

26:42

There was just something that triggered me so early

26:44

in my life is why I was such a poor

26:46

student. I never valued

26:48

being seen as. I

26:53

didn't have that gear. I

26:56

went through high school without feeling peer pressure, which

26:58

in hindsight now is insanity. That's

27:02

almost robotic. Sometimes I even

27:04

razz myself for feelings,

27:06

are you a robot? That's not right

27:08

and of course I do and of course there was micro

27:10

moments of it. But yeah,

27:13

I think it's a beautifully well said thing, brother,

27:15

and I think if you're sitting at

27:17

home right now and saying I want to be seen as, you're

27:19

gonna put yourself in a vulnerable spot because you're

27:21

putting the weight of subjective opinions on the outside

27:24

over your own peace of mind of navigating your

27:26

game. Well ultimately, if I

27:29

look at a lot of the creators that I really

27:31

love personally for me that I actually care about and

27:33

I have a lot of faith in, Mike

27:35

Isretel is a good example of this. He's been on the

27:37

show, he's the founder of

27:39

Renaissance Periodization. Big Jim Bro, all

27:42

he does is make incredibly sus jokes

27:44

and break down exercise signs better than anybody

27:46

else on the internet and that's him. And

27:48

I've hung out with him on camera and

27:51

off camera and we've had phone calls and

27:53

he is the same guy on

27:55

and off and that's him. And as he changes,

27:57

his content will change. But it's not like that.

27:59

like his content changes and then he

28:01

changes to catch up with it. Like he's

28:04

leading from the front personally. And

28:06

yeah, I, I think that, I

28:09

think that trying to realize, here's the

28:11

final thing as well, just the point

28:13

on authenticity. If

28:16

you do you, you can never get it

28:19

wrong. Of course not because

28:21

the only game in life is to mitigate

28:23

regret. And if you live

28:25

a fake life, you could have a trillion dollars, all

28:27

the, all the girls, all

28:30

the guys, all the trips, all the

28:32

handbags, all the Lamborghinis. I promise you,

28:34

I know unlimited 17 to 90 year

28:37

olds that have all the stuff who

28:39

are not living happy lives, who feel

28:41

empty, who have deep regrets. And

28:44

so yes, of course. What

28:46

have been the biggest changes in

28:49

the type of content that works

28:51

online across the

28:54

life cycle trajectory since you started creating

28:56

to now? Wow. You know, I started

28:58

creating February 20th or 21st, 2006. That's

29:02

when I did my first episode of wine library TV. Um,

29:07

and so a lot has changed. You

29:09

know, it's funny, my early instincts ended up

29:11

becoming the game. One of the reasons I

29:13

had a lot of eyes on me back in 2006, seven

29:16

was I was doing long form video

29:18

on YouTube. And then I

29:20

started doing it on a site called Vidler. That was

29:22

a big early mistake of my career. There was this

29:25

competitor YouTube called Vidler that had tagging and

29:27

I was doing such long videos and people

29:29

wanted to see the third wine I was

29:31

reviewing. So the tagging at the bottom, you

29:33

could click the little button and get to

29:35

the third wine was like this profound technology.

29:37

Well, it didn't exist then. How

29:40

interesting. Yeah. Anyway, nonetheless, so

29:43

much has changed. Um, first of all, all

29:45

of social media content in 2006, seven, eight

29:48

as public creators and influencers

29:50

was only Silicon Valley elite. There

29:53

was no normal people on it. Going back to

29:56

club life. So many of my New York friends

29:58

and LA friends that are of my. age who

30:01

I didn't know because I was working in the liquor store

30:03

and I was working all the time. I didn't do as

30:05

much nightlife, but a lot of them I know now and

30:07

they built their careers and everyone's kind of on, you

30:09

know, found each other. They

30:12

talk often about the 2006,

30:14

seven, eight era of like

30:16

these social media people, myself included Zuckerberg,

30:19

Evan Williams, Travis from Uber of like,

30:21

Oh, we thought those people were nerds.

30:24

Like that wasn't cool. So the

30:26

2006, seven, eight, nine creators

30:30

influencers content was

30:33

more intellect, more business,

30:35

more so more innovation,

30:37

more techie. There was no

30:40

nobody was cool. There

30:43

was, there was nothing cool about it. And

30:45

so a lot of it was if you go look back at,

30:47

I mean, if I bet you, if you read the

30:50

first 10 million tweets, which

30:53

I assume from 2006 to 2000, I

30:55

don't know how long it took them to get there.

30:57

It is nerd. It's engineers.

31:00

It's front end designers. It's

31:02

Python and Ruby on Rails

31:04

engineers. It's startup founders. It's

31:06

VCs. And it's not VCs

31:08

today, which is like cool bro Jim

31:10

bros that are also VCs. It was

31:13

fucking fine. It was coders. It was

31:15

nerds. I was when I tell you

31:17

I was like a charity

31:20

product. I was like the industry,

31:22

the web 2.0 Silicon Valley

31:25

industry would point to me a lot

31:27

in 2006, seven, eight, nine, because I

31:30

was a wine store owner in New

31:32

Jersey of like, see, this isn't just

31:34

San Francisco. I was like

31:36

an enigma. So

31:39

that was that also nobody thought in

31:41

what I played out here, nobody was

31:43

thinking about this in like deep strategy.

31:46

First of all, the biggest thing that changed is

31:48

social media for the first decade was email marketing

31:51

amass as many followers as you can. And

31:53

a certain percentage of them will see it every

31:55

time you post. Now

31:57

in the last three years, we've lived

32:00

through the. TikTokification of all social

32:02

media. Now it is- What you mean when you say

32:04

that? We now live in a social media world where

32:06

somebody listening right now, that's 17 year old you and

32:08

I, does not even have a profile, starts

32:11

a TikTok account, and her or his

32:14

third post gets two million views. That

32:16

didn't exist ever for the first decade.

32:18

It couldn't happen. She would have only had 11 followers.

32:21

Now the TikTokification, the

32:24

four you pageification of every platform,

32:26

the AI algorithms, it

32:28

is now around interests, not around who you

32:31

follow, means that every

32:33

individual piece of content now has the

32:35

potential to reach a

32:37

level of awareness that is far outreaching the

32:39

effort you've put into it. It's

32:42

the ozempic and steroids of

32:44

social media. It's made social

32:47

media much more egalitarian in that way. The

32:49

meritocracy that we're living in right now, I

32:52

mean, I always know when I, we're

32:54

talking about something important right now. This is how I'm always

32:56

right, the goosebumps are. It's

32:58

the animalistic attraction as well. The buck,

33:01

even to you, yes, you are very

33:03

handsome. No, when I know I'm

33:05

talking about something that matters, I get goosebumps, which is

33:07

why. You know some people, Bartley talks

33:09

about AI or pressing, I just look at my goosebumps

33:11

like Dustin, make sure we clip this. The

33:15

merit of this fucking game right

33:17

now, and it intoxicates me, and I fucking

33:20

got the gray hairs and the fucking wrinkles,

33:22

I put in the fucking work for the

33:24

last 20 years, and

33:26

I'm pumped that I've been commoditized on the merit of the

33:28

fucking, it's the lion eats

33:30

lion. It's the, there are

33:32

sports you can't cheat. Like what I love

33:34

about social media right now is it's fucking

33:36

merit based. You're only as good as your

33:38

next post. I fucking, when I tell you

33:40

I'm gonna beat this fucking, I'm spent, excites

33:43

the fuck out of me. And

33:45

I love that for everyone who is sitting right

33:48

now. I mean, talk about something inspirational. You're listening

33:50

right now, because you motivate them. And they see

33:52

me on it, I'm like, yeah, I like that

33:54

guy or fuck that guy. But they're listening, right?

33:56

They're sitting right now, and they're fucking

33:58

not in a good place. like fuck man I

34:01

blew it or I missed it or it's the

34:03

fact that if they believe me because it's a hundred

34:05

percent true if they're sitting there be like wait a

34:07

minute my single post about

34:09

what I know about Zelda my

34:12

individual post to UK

34:14

culture of like wait if I nerd out

34:16

about darts in detail is that what these

34:19

two fuckers fucking love it like I

34:21

think like what do I think about British culture darts

34:24

like that's where you go it's darts fish and chips

34:27

and tea okay you know if we

34:29

if we if you really if you really

34:31

think about that you know going

34:33

global like me my unbelievable knowledge of

34:35

cricket if I break that down in

34:38

a green screen or do this like

34:40

knitting right or like Nick Beret

34:42

is one of my top dogs at VaynerMedia

34:44

because he finally heard me and he wanted

34:46

to be a practitioner not

34:48

just an executive he flips egg

34:51

omelets flips them you might

34:53

have seen him he's the guy who takes it like

34:55

just egg on flips in there and catches it he

34:57

has a fucking tick-tock or Instagram I think that has

34:59

more views than I've ever had in my career that's

35:02

fucking amazing like to me

35:04

I just love the

35:06

opportunities of back to finding what you're looking for

35:09

for everyone who's listening right now who still has

35:11

either a lot or a glimpse of optimism left

35:13

please listen one more time because I'm gonna repeat

35:15

it for the fuckers in the back the

35:18

fact that tomorrow you can start you

35:20

decide to go after something you either

35:22

really know or you really love

35:24

how going back to what's changed the

35:26

day before I started wine library TV I can't

35:29

believe I'm saying this 18 years later because I

35:31

lived it I sat there and said I'm

35:33

doing this YouTube thing and I debated two things will

35:36

I do a wine show because I know more about that than

35:38

anything or will I do a show about

35:40

the New York Jets because it's the thing I love the

35:42

most I almost did a jet

35:44

show and I ended up doing a

35:46

wine show and I want everyone listening right now about

35:49

their content on social am I gonna

35:51

talk about something I know the most I'm

35:53

an accountant I don't love it I don't hate

35:55

it because if you hate it you'll be dead

35:57

I don't hate it but I don't love it

35:59

but motherfucker I know accounting and

36:01

I also know I'm silly and

36:03

I'm a bro or silly girl and I'm just gonna

36:05

make it a little more entertaining. Or I'm

36:09

fucking obsessed with avatar and

36:12

I'm just gonna make unlimited avatar movie content.

36:14

I don't think people realize that most people,

36:16

if they go hard for a couple of

36:18

years on what I'm saying, that

36:21

on a bad day, they're making 80 to 150,000

36:23

a year in

36:25

merch and a couple of brand deals in

36:27

pre-roll, right? And for a lot

36:29

of fucking people on earth,

36:32

making 150, talking about

36:35

proper football, instead of making

36:37

230, being an

36:39

executive in the state organization

36:41

doing landscaping is a much better

36:43

life or even better, because I

36:45

actually believe the even more

36:48

extreme. I think over time, everybody will

36:50

make more than if they hate their

36:52

job of making social media

36:54

content around their passions or expertise.

36:56

And I think that's a level of

36:59

merit, long tail entrepreneurship, because we think

37:01

about this shit from a Mr. Beast,

37:03

from a Logan Paul standpoint, most

37:06

people are not gonna make millions of dollars a year

37:08

in social, but most people

37:10

have the opportunity to make hundreds of thousands

37:12

and that long tail is misunderstood right now.

37:16

Talk to me about when

37:18

it comes to the specifics of content

37:21

style, what do you think

37:23

have got the greatest upside at the moment?

37:25

Everyone's talking about vertical video, about face to camera,

37:27

sub stack, I think has got like tremendous,

37:30

it's one of my favorites. I

37:32

don't know whether you'd call it social media, I

37:34

guess it's kind of what medium should have been.

37:36

Yeah, it's content, subscription. I think medium shit in

37:39

the bed there and absolutely, I mean, they had

37:41

it, they absolutely had it. Ed Williams is probably

37:43

one of my three favorites. Is

37:45

that the dude behind medium, right? Ed Williams is also

37:47

the dude behind Twitter. I know Jack gets a lot

37:49

of the credit now. In 2006,

37:51

seven, eight, Jack invented the

37:54

concept, Ed ran the company, Ed was

37:56

the guide. at

38:00

bare minimum, they were the co-guys. But

38:02

the 2006, 789 era of

38:05

Twitter was Ev Williams. He also

38:07

was Bebo, which he's like, not

38:11

Bebo, excuse me, he

38:13

sold something to Google, I apologize, definitely wasn't

38:16

Bebo, it was something else. He, I think

38:18

Blogspot or something of that nature. And

38:21

he also then did a pot, after he sold a big

38:23

company to Google, he was

38:25

about to build a podcast company and

38:27

then Apple Podcasts came out, he was smart, he was like,

38:30

this is gonna lose, shut it down, very smart, and then

38:32

Twitter. He did

38:34

Medium, you're right, they were very close, I

38:37

was so bullish on Medium, and

38:39

Substack, I think, innovated that same site, similar

38:41

to Dig and Reddit, right? Dig was Reddit.

38:44

And then, Vlogger, thank you, Vlogger

38:46

is what Ev Williams did. From

38:48

content strategy side, someone

38:51

says, Gary, I found my thing, or I have

38:53

an idea what my thing might be, it's going

38:55

to be cricket or fucking tea or darts. What

38:58

should somebody be thinking about? I think a lot of

39:00

people get stuck in the mechanisms. What to make, yeah.

39:03

Let's go into it, let's go nerdy. First,

39:06

it's a self-awareness game. There

39:09

is multiple mediums that work in communicating.

39:11

I'm glad you brought up Substack, a

39:13

Substack, because it allows me to go

39:15

there. There is the written word. There

39:18

are people listening right now who know more

39:21

about video game 1980s culture than

39:23

anybody in the world. However, they are

39:26

very self-aware and they're like, fuck this shit,

39:28

I'm not going on camera. I

39:30

don't have the gift of gab. I'm

39:32

incredibly awkward with my words. I'm

39:34

shy, I don't like it. Good

39:36

news, do you like to write? Huh,

39:39

I'm a little bit more there. Or they

39:41

have great gift of gab, but

39:43

the camera makes them, it kills them.

39:47

Great, you've got video, you've

39:49

got audio, and you've got the written word. If

39:51

you want to go to the extremes, you could

39:53

even animate and cartoon it. You

39:56

could even go that far, but that's a little bit of

39:58

a further putt. But, What

40:00

would I say? First, you have to know your

40:02

medium. The preference is video. Cause

40:04

video is a starting point to everything else.

40:07

I do audio and written word without doing

40:09

it because everything's extracted from my

40:11

video. So video is the holy grail,

40:13

no question. Video killed the radio start, like that's right.

40:16

However, it is not required. That's very

40:18

important for people to hear. Number

40:21

two, once you decide to

40:23

do it, you have to decide your

40:25

medium. So for example, if

40:27

somebody who's listening is really

40:29

into modern IP law with

40:31

AI coming, with NFT culture,

40:33

with Disney, with Pokemon, LinkedIn

40:36

and YouTube are gonna be much better

40:38

mediums for them potentially than let's say

40:40

Facebook, right? But if you're

40:42

into parenting, Dr. Becky, big shout out, she's getting

40:45

a lot of momentum. Facebook's a fucking dream. So

40:47

you have to know where your audiences are. You have

40:49

to know what mediums. And then per medium becomes

40:53

the creative variable. Meaning LinkedIn

40:56

is a fucking monster for the written word.

40:59

You write a fucking epic four

41:01

sub stack like New York

41:03

Times, Opt-in, blogging, medium. You

41:05

write fucking 12, a newsletter

41:07

person. You write fucking 12

41:10

paragraphs of fucking fire about

41:13

something B2B or business oriented. And you post that

41:15

on LinkedIn with a good picture. There now for

41:17

you page stuff will get you lots of fucking

41:19

views, lots of reads. And

41:22

LinkedIn is a very different audience. You

41:24

get one proper fucker to read that.

41:26

You're getting a message on LinkedIn that's

41:28

gonna make you money. B2B

41:31

and like grown up business, LinkedIn

41:33

is one of the biggest opportunities

41:35

that people miss because for example,

41:37

this iconic CPG brand you're building.

41:40

If you write four paragraphs on

41:42

your strategy of something you see

41:44

on LinkedIn, that may

41:46

lead to a business development deal that will

41:48

never happen on Instagram or you're building consumers.

41:50

Because a distributor from Walmart happens to come

41:53

across it. You got it? Yeah.

41:55

Right, and LinkedIn is so global. It could even be

41:57

a small live shop. player

42:00

in China or like it people

42:02

don't under understand what's going on there so

42:04

the answer to the question is they'll all

42:07

work when you go into them it starts

42:09

getting into real culture when you're writing something

42:11

your headline matters it's good old

42:13

newspaper it's that LinkedIn post the variable is

42:15

gonna be your opening headline what do you think about when

42:17

it comes to copy for a headline I

42:20

think about like what is unique can you

42:22

say a different what can

42:24

and I'll tell you the biggest thing I actually thank

42:26

you for being so good at interviewing you're pushing me

42:28

in a good place when

42:32

I think about social media creative I think

42:34

about it in consumer segmentation something I call

42:36

cohorts so when I make content

42:39

I'll make content for I'll think

42:41

like okay I'm making this for 48 to 55

42:43

year old parents of a 21 year old and

42:45

it's a wealthy

42:48

family and the kid is lazy but they were

42:50

the parents that made all the money because they

42:52

grew up poor and they have anxiety that their

42:54

kids lazy but they're the ones that created the

42:56

nepotism because they pay them money that's the content

42:58

being made for cohorts

43:01

with teeth that was a very narrow thing

43:03

I wasn't saying parents so

43:05

I think when I think it headlines I'm

43:08

like what narrow group am I writing this

43:10

for I'm gonna write this article and

43:12

this headline is gonna be written for

43:15

the buyers of the biggest retailers in America title

43:18

what big-box retailers don't know

43:20

about beverages you

43:24

see what I just did improv that

43:26

my brother that my brother

43:28

that's that's why I wrote this book that's

43:30

what I know is missing right now people

43:32

are trying to hack the algos they're looking

43:34

for best practice that's wonderful that's

43:37

called P platform strategy but

43:39

then there's the C I call it pack platforms and

43:41

culture and then you have

43:43

to have consumer cohorts so you have to

43:45

know the platforms absolutely vertical this carousel that

43:47

livestream this like best practices as you know

43:49

this tick-tock and Instagram are now littered with

43:51

characters that do the Gary Vee thing and

43:53

tell people what the best platform things are

43:55

but the platforms tell you the

43:58

fucking Instagram guys making content every this is

44:00

what Instagram cares about. You just follow, every

44:02

time TikTok puts out an announcement, that's what

44:04

they're gonna do. It doesn't take

44:06

a fucking superhero to understand if

44:08

Meta says, we now care about

44:11

carousels, go make fucking carousels. Like

44:13

Jesus, the culture, the strategy,

44:15

the headline, like the way I'm thinking here,

44:17

like who are you making it for? Why

44:19

are you bringing, let's go back to something I

44:21

said earlier. Okay, so now you're writing a LinkedIn

44:24

post what big box retailers don't know about the

44:26

beverage market. If you write this as

44:28

a fucking press release for you, you're being selfish with

44:30

the hope that the Walmart buys, that article is not

44:32

gonna hit. If you really take a step

44:34

back and spend 30 hours analyzing

44:37

what's happening at Big Box Retailer

44:39

with drinks and understanding something that

44:41

they're overestimating, you can now say,

44:44

you could start it with like, one of the biggest mistakes

44:46

about how Big Box Retailers think about their relationships with Coca-Cola

44:48

and Dr. Pepper is they overvalue, duh duh duh duh duh

44:50

duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh. What

44:52

Poppy was able to do duh duh duh duh duh duh

44:54

duh duh duh. What Prime was able to do duh duh

44:56

duh duh duh duh duh duh. Got it? That

44:59

shit. I fucking love that shit.

45:02

That level of depth is missing in the game right

45:04

now and that goes for

45:06

everything. You wanna be a fashion

45:08

brand? What's the micro influencer strategy? Do

45:11

you go to Coachella, not to be at Coachella, but to

45:13

film everything for you to post produce it for

45:16

your social content because no photo shoot in

45:18

a studio like this could ever replicate the actual

45:20

energy of a fucking festival where

45:23

the cool fucking kids are cooling out? Things like that. Things

45:26

like that. In other news, this

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the show notes below or heading

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to netsuite.com/modern that's netsuite.com/modern. Talk to

46:29

me from a platform perspective. A lot of people

46:31

are going to be asking this question. Okay so I

46:34

have a number that are in front of me. I

46:36

can do written word on LinkedIn, I can do written

46:38

word on Subsac, I can do vertical video TikTok, Instagram,

46:41

I can even do that on Facebook. I can just

46:43

simul post it from Instagram across on the Facebook. I

46:45

can do YouTube short etc. What are

46:47

the platforms over the next three

46:51

to five years that you're the most bullish and bearish on? I

46:54

can't answer that question because it's not how my brain thinks. Let me

46:56

explain what I mean. Day trading attention

46:58

is don't romanticize about yesterday, Instagram.

47:02

And don't try to get too excited about

47:04

tomorrow. Elon post

47:06

yesterday, Vine question mark

47:09

right? So Vine's coming. Don't

47:11

overthink today. I don't know

47:13

what's going to be there in three to five years. I

47:15

definitely wouldn't like the reason I'm good at my game is

47:17

when it happens I'm all in. So I

47:19

can only speak about today and anybody worried about three to

47:21

five and people ask no time what's next? Three to five

47:24

years. I don't know. I know

47:26

that meta and Google are not going to disappear.

47:28

So I continue to think they'll innovate

47:30

or M&A and be in the game as macro

47:32

companies. But YouTube shorts was not in the cards

47:34

for me three years ago. Right?

47:36

But then TikTok's pressure made them go there. I

47:38

think Vine is going to be massively interesting to

47:40

watch when they read. Is that coming back? 100%.

47:44

I'd be it would make it would

47:46

be Elon's too smart to not do it. Does

47:48

Twitter own Vine? Yes. Right. Okay. And that was

47:50

part of the deal. Yes.

47:53

Once you know, but they shut it down, but it's

47:55

still there. Right. And they own the IP. And you

47:57

know, I mean, Vine is the absolute

48:00

seed of this generation. Short-form videos

48:02

started online. It was a profound

48:04

thing when it hit. I remember looking at it day

48:06

one, I was like, whoa, this is different, different. And

48:09

it just completely captured youth culture at that time. And

48:11

I was very serious about it. As a matter of

48:14

fact, I launched, you can Google this right

48:16

now if you're listening, I launched probably,

48:18

I mean, the article said it, like the

48:20

first influencer agency called Grape Story with Jerome

48:22

Jarr, one of the first celebrities on Vine.

48:25

And we signed Logan Paul, Rudy Munk, who's

48:27

like all of these characters, Brittany

48:29

Furlough, like we were talking to all of them.

48:32

So to answer the question directly

48:34

and not get too scattered here, I

48:37

don't know what three to five years is gonna bring.

48:39

I know that for everyone who's listening,

48:43

the answer is more and yes

48:45

and and. Meaning my

48:47

argument with everyone here today is every minute that

48:50

you don't spend on gathering

48:52

more attention is

48:55

a minute that you're potentially declining on

48:57

your long-term opportunity. There's

49:00

times to cash in on your attention. There's times to do

49:02

other things. But I feel like a lot

49:04

of people will go, talked earlier

49:06

about regret. The only things I regret as a

49:08

businessman is not going harder on my thumb on

49:10

the scale every time where I knew the attention

49:12

was. I should have made more TikTok videos six

49:15

years ago. I should have done more Google ads

49:17

in 2001. I should have sent

49:19

more emails in 96. I should have

49:21

done more tweets in 2007. And

49:24

so whether it's, we haven't talked about live streaming.

49:26

I mean, there's so much going on with Twitch

49:29

and all these live streaming platforms. TikTok live

49:31

is very important. Look, we don't, three to

49:34

five years, what if fucking TikTok gets banned

49:36

by America in seven months? Where does all

49:38

that attention go? I mean, to me, that's

49:40

a huge opportunity for Vine. If I'm Elon,

49:43

I'm sitting like, okay, if I

49:45

time this perfectly and I'm fucking Elon,

49:47

like I'm that guy, if I

49:49

fucking announce Vine the day TikTok, I can

49:51

probably get every, it could happen and that'd

49:54

be insane. What a fucking strategy. And

49:57

so I don't know. I

50:00

know that as I sit here today, right this

50:02

nanosecond, Instagram's harder than ever. Does

50:04

the supply and demand curve on Instagram is hard? More

50:07

content was made on Instagram yesterday than ever in the

50:09

history of Instagram. But the attention has

50:11

been fragmented into YouTube shorts and to TikTok.

50:13

So how can Instagram be as good as

50:15

it was four years ago? It's not. Supply

50:17

and demand, supply and demand, supply and demand

50:19

of attention. I know that YouTube

50:22

shorts has a longer tail on its views than

50:24

anything else because YouTube's the second biggest

50:26

search engine in the world. So

50:28

I know when I make a short on YouTube,

50:30

I title it in a way that more matches

50:33

search than I would on TikTok because I want

50:35

somebody in four months to search how

50:37

do I, and I show up, right? These

50:40

are the things I obsess over. This is why I

50:42

went so nerdy in this book. I

50:44

went to fucking detail. That was only

50:46

a recent update with regards to shorts

50:48

that they were using keywords in title

50:51

for search. It

50:53

is only been a recent thing more people

50:55

have talked about but from the day it started, that

50:58

was always in there. It's

51:01

something that we've certainly used

51:03

on the channel that we'll put, if there's a short that comes

51:05

up from this, it'll be whatever the title of it is, Line

51:09

Gary V. Gary Gainichuk, whichever is based

51:11

on higher search volume. Okay,

51:14

so is there

51:16

room in your

51:18

opinion, actually

51:21

even better question than that, Naval released

51:23

AirChat this week. What's your thoughts?

51:26

I love it, I'm really enjoying it. I went ham

51:28

this weekend. This has been a crazy week for me.

51:30

So I've been a little bit sad that I haven't

51:32

been able to jam with it as much. First of

51:34

all, I love the beginning

51:36

stages of seeing AI so

51:39

integrated into native social, right? So

51:41

for everybody who doesn't know AirChat,

51:44

it's ironic, you may know this, it's

51:46

been around for almost four years. They

51:49

keep iterating it and the latest version of it

51:51

has really caught fire last week. But by the

51:53

way, all those nerds from 2006,

51:55

seven, Josh Elman, Mazzio,

51:57

like all my favorite homies from back in the day, It's

52:00

all there. It's the way that it

52:02

always works. The nerds are always a few

52:04

minutes before the cool kids. But

52:06

now you see a blend. Back to cool kids being on

52:09

there over the weekend in a way that we've never seen

52:11

before, not even Clubhouse. It's usually the

52:13

nerds. Now for AirChat to

52:15

not become Clubhouse or other things, AKA

52:17

a feature, right? Because Twitter spaces is

52:19

Clubhouse. It

52:22

needs to keep innovating, but it's really cool,

52:24

right? So for everybody that doesn't know, it's

52:26

very much like Twitter, but the difference is

52:28

it's all audio. You record your tweet, but

52:30

then it transcribes it into the written word.

52:32

But when you consume it, you can read

52:34

it or listen to it. And when there's

52:36

a conversation or a thread of tweets, it

52:38

will just play almost like a podcast. It's

52:41

really neat. There's a lot of cool things

52:43

in it. So

52:46

the way I think about things are, are they features

52:48

or are they permanent platforms? Is

52:52

this gonna get gobbled up by some existing

52:54

larger platform and just get folded into the

52:56

feature list? That's right. Obviously

52:59

Twitter would be a natural because it looks most like

53:01

Twitter, but this might have

53:03

too much friction for that. The answer is the verdict's still

53:05

out. But when I think about the things that people have

53:07

asked me about in the last several years, Dustin

53:10

is filming in the background right now. You remember, I

53:12

was really on it with Be Real. People

53:14

are like, Be Real's next. I'm like, I

53:17

think it's gonna be a feature, right? Like I

53:19

don't, like now Be Real

53:21

could have built on top of it, snapped it, snap

53:24

early, could have been a

53:26

feature, and then they built more things

53:29

into it. And then obviously their killer

53:31

feature stories became foundational to every platform.

53:33

So, you know, I'm always paying attention when

53:35

new platforms pop, reclip.

53:38

I don't know if you've seen this. This one's on my mind a

53:40

little bit. Again, I've been watching it for

53:42

several months. It hasn't popped yet. It's on

53:45

your phone. It's recording everything that

53:47

you're talking about. It's a recorder of

53:50

everything. Oh, it's Amazon. Yeah, it's what

53:52

people are scared of thinking what Alexa

53:54

is. Talk about

53:56

conspiracy theorists. Here's

54:00

the interesting part. It's only recording the last

54:02

two minutes. So it doesn't record

54:04

everything. It's a rolling last two minutes. You

54:06

know what that allows to happen? When

54:08

you're having- Oh, we just said that

54:10

thing. Oh, that's very smart. That's cool. That's

54:13

cool. The reason I thought TikTok was gonna explode

54:15

musically was I'm like, oh my

54:17

God, this is social media with training wheels. They're

54:19

giving people music. They're giving people all these edits.

54:21

It's gonna help non-creators be better creators. The

54:24

reason I like ReClip, it allows everybody in the world

54:27

to be an audio content creator or video,

54:30

when you're done with the ReClip, you can add features to

54:33

it and it becomes like a TikTok. I

54:35

think they're onto something. Again, I'm always watching,

54:39

but I don't anoint. It's even rare for

54:41

me to mention something like ReClip in such

54:43

a prominent platform like this podcast, because

54:45

I don't want, on the record, AirChat,

54:48

ReClip, I don't know, but I'm always

54:50

in the lab watching. I'm always

54:52

refining my day-to-day social, back

54:54

to day trading tension, and I'm always watching for

54:56

the next wave. And

54:58

sometimes something I'll tell you this, what I

55:01

learned on Socialcam, Socialcam was a

55:03

social network, I think in 2011 or 12,

55:07

that was hot for, I don't know, 48

55:09

seconds, aka a

55:11

summer, but I created on

55:14

it. That helped me

55:16

understand what to do on Vine. It

55:19

was even, like Vine actually hit, Socialcam didn't,

55:21

but it was short-form video. And

55:23

so when Vine came, I was like, wait a minute. And

55:26

then obviously when the whole next year it came,

55:29

I was ready for short-form video. Talk

55:31

to me about long-form content versus

55:33

short-form, and we can fold into

55:36

that conversation, volume

55:38

versus quality slash depth of content as

55:40

well. I think a lot to talk

55:42

about there. Yes, to your first question,

55:45

they both work. People watch a three-hour

55:47

movie if they love it, or

55:50

a 45-minute vlog, I did very well with DailyVee,

55:52

they were long. And

55:54

people watch seven-second videos that crush,

55:57

and people will not watch seven-second

55:59

videos. because they're garbage and people will definitely

56:01

not watch 25 minute videos if they're garbage. So

56:04

that goes back to self-awareness. Like are

56:06

you capable of doing a blog or

56:08

a great video series or are you

56:10

not, same with short form, quantity,

56:13

quality. Quantity is

56:15

not debatable. You

56:17

either make 97 pieces of content in a month or you don't.

56:20

Quality is completely subjective. Either

56:23

this person is attractive, funny, insightful or

56:25

not. I'm very high on that.

56:27

However, I do think that people,

56:30

I think I didn't do a good enough

56:32

job contextualizing when I

56:34

would, I've been screaming on social for

56:36

seven years, volume, volume, volume, volume. The

56:39

reality is it's a quality

56:41

quantity ratio. Volume if

56:43

you're capable. If you have a lot to

56:45

say, if you have a lot of jokes,

56:47

if you have a lot of good looks,

56:49

if you have a lot of techniques, if

56:51

you have shit to say, go, go, go,

56:53

go, go. Different ways edits, different, if

56:56

you don't, of course not. This goes back to

56:58

earlier, why I'm obsessed with passion or expertise. You're

57:01

dead if you're not doing passion or expertise. You

57:04

just won't have enough juice. There was

57:06

not enough fucking fuel in it. Passion will

57:08

take you forever, which is why I like that actually more.

57:11

But expertise, especially if you don't hate it. I always

57:13

get worried about expertise because a lot of people's thing

57:15

that they know because it's their profession, they don't like.

57:18

And I do think that fuel will run out as well. But

57:20

to answer your question one more time to recap for

57:22

everybody, both long and short form work and don't work.

57:25

It's based on how good you do. I

57:27

think quantity matters in future AI world.

57:30

You're gonna get drowned out by the quality of

57:32

content if you don't not commit it to quantity.

57:35

But yes, of course it's predicated on the quality

57:37

of that quantity. I just think you

57:39

should have more at bats. Many of the posts I

57:41

put out with all this 20 years

57:43

of expertise and writing the fucking book and being

57:45

that fucking guy, I miss all the time. But

57:49

I love that feeling. Like I'm

57:51

trying to learn. I saw somebody

57:54

the other day in a piece of content making fun of

57:56

me and my team for doing all sorts of different shit.

57:59

And I was laughing. because I'm like, no, no, that's

58:01

the game. The

58:03

point that he was trying to make is like, he's lost

58:06

his way, he doesn't know what he's doing, he's just thrown,

58:08

we're not thrown against a wall to see what sticks, we're

58:10

exploring different features and things to try to learn what's next.

58:13

And I have the humility for it to not do well.

58:16

Do you know the reason most people suck at social media is

58:18

they're scared to not get as many views and their little

58:21

fragile ego needs to go through the

58:23

day? I don't give a fuck. I'm

58:27

streaming on Twitch on mute in my

58:29

office, 83 people are watching. I

58:32

don't give a fuck. That

58:34

doesn't take away from everything I'm doing. Do

58:38

you not think that there's a degree of optics? Like

58:40

people naturally use

58:42

popularity as a proxy for quality?

58:45

Of course. So to

58:48

a degree, if you're

58:50

consistently posting in a way that

58:52

isn't getting, not saying that this is what you're doing, but

58:54

if you're consistently posting in a way that's

58:57

like 83 likes, nine likes, that

59:00

says something to your audience

59:02

about, when you look at

59:05

YouTube and you see thumbnail,

59:08

you see title, you see the

59:10

name of the creator, you see how

59:12

long it is, those

59:15

are important metrics. But when you go

59:17

on, you see how many people have

59:19

viewed that video. It depends

59:21

on what, if you're trading for popularity,

59:24

sure, or the perception of popularity, depends

59:27

on what you're trading on. For me, if

59:29

80 people are watching me on

59:31

Twitch, while I'm on mute all day, there's

59:34

really no reason to watch it, but

59:36

I'm just experimenting. If someone

59:38

then decides like Gary Vee fell off or sucks,

59:41

that person is incredibly not smart. I'm

59:45

not super worried about losing with losing players. Yeah,

59:48

that's an interesting way. I think a lot about

59:50

the time of cultivating the

59:54

audience that you want and

59:56

being very careful about the sort of people that you attract.

59:59

You can throw red meat. and you can

1:00:01

do the audience capture thing and you can be

1:00:03

predictable. This is something I'm gonna- I can get

1:00:05

100 million views tomorrow if I decide to go

1:00:08

fucking crazy on something I don't believe on that

1:00:10

will goad the entire audience into watching. Who the

1:00:12

fuck wants that? Like, it depends

1:00:14

on what you're playing for. Too many

1:00:16

people are trying to win with losing players and too

1:00:18

many people are not trying to win with winning players.

1:00:20

One of the things I tell a lot of kids

1:00:23

that fake the funk when they pitch me, businesses,

1:00:26

I see your gathering your thoughts because I want you to hear this. I

1:00:28

think you really like this. No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, I

1:00:31

totally get it. Um, one of my

1:00:33

favorite meetings to have is a kid that comes in that's

1:00:35

got it, you know, the fucking juice, but

1:00:38

I'm like listening. I love listening to a

1:00:41

pitch and I realized that she

1:00:43

or he just pitched me and it would work on 99% but not

1:00:45

the 1%. And

1:00:48

what I mean by that is I'll go into something

1:00:50

specific they go where I know they're embellishing and

1:00:53

I'll go very narrow. If it's a

1:00:55

place I'm comfortable, I know what I'm talking about. And I

1:00:57

know a lot about a lot of stuff. This is why

1:00:59

I started VaynerMedia. The main reason I started VaynerMedia was to

1:01:01

know as many different things about as many different businesses as

1:01:03

possible and build the biggest marketing communications

1:01:05

company in the world that I could deploy against

1:01:08

my other behaviors when I got older. For me,

1:01:10

it's always been about 60 to 70. Like

1:01:13

that's when I'm gonna strike like a cobra.

1:01:15

This right now is just fucking foreplay. This

1:01:17

is just a setup. This is the fucking

1:01:19

jab. Anyway, when I'm in a meeting like

1:01:21

that, I had this happen the other day with a kid and I

1:01:23

went deep and I was like, duh, duh, duh, duh, duh, duh, and

1:01:26

I could see the kid was a little bit like, because I was

1:01:28

like calling him, by the way,

1:01:30

he crushed it. Like, I'm like, this kid's

1:01:32

gonna fucking win. You know,

1:01:34

that charisma, that salesmanship. And there was

1:01:36

a lot of good stuff, but he was full of

1:01:38

shit on like three or four things, but it was complicated

1:01:40

to know it. But it just happened to be

1:01:42

in a space that I knew enough to be able to go there. He

1:01:46

really took it well, which was what I wanted to see,

1:01:49

which gave me even more confidence that he's just 24 and

1:01:51

he's gonna get there. And

1:01:53

then I said something to him that I really, I say a

1:01:55

lot of shit and I'm into this shit, but

1:01:58

I like those moments where I'm like, fuck, person

1:02:00

just internalize this and it's gonna be like a thing. And

1:02:02

I can't wait for them to dominate and I'm gonna be old and they're

1:02:04

gonna be like, Gary, me one said to me 30, I

1:02:06

like that stuff. And I like it for him. I

1:02:09

said, brother, you're gonna win with 99% of losing players.

1:02:11

The problem is you do that pitch again to the

1:02:13

1% winners, you're gonna lose with all of

1:02:15

them and they're the only people that matter. And

1:02:18

this is that recap is what we just talked about.

1:02:20

So yes, do I think perception is reality? Yes, I

1:02:22

do. Do I think brand matters over everything? I sure

1:02:24

do. But I think that if people, the

1:02:26

biggest issue with the world right now is people wanna take

1:02:28

everything out of context, we

1:02:30

have no concept of, we've eliminated intent. People are

1:02:32

trying to cancel everybody. Cancel culture was

1:02:35

a disaster because it tried

1:02:37

to cancel people without understanding their intent.

1:02:40

If somebody is a beautiful person, they just

1:02:42

didn't know the proper slang or didn't know

1:02:44

and they just had no ill will, the

1:02:46

fuck are you trying to get them fired

1:02:48

for? Similar to somebody seeing

1:02:50

a video of like Mr. Beast on

1:02:53

a post on Snap and we have 80,000 views and

1:02:55

be like, oh, he fell. That's not

1:02:57

smart. That's not understanding what people, and

1:03:00

by the way, back to your journey and his journey and

1:03:03

the journey that I had with Empathy Wines and kind of

1:03:05

new CPG was next and why I talked about it forever

1:03:07

and why I built RaynerMedia to be in CPG. A

1:03:11

lot of creators are gonna care

1:03:13

less about how many maximizing views.

1:03:15

They're gonna care about views that

1:03:17

translate into CPG sales or hours

1:03:19

allocated to meetings in Bentonville or

1:03:21

hours allocated to being on TikTok

1:03:23

Live. Like shit's gonna change. Shit

1:03:28

changes. But

1:03:30

the lack of courage and curiosity

1:03:33

of the A-list to try new shit because they're

1:03:35

worried about what we just talked about is

1:03:38

why a lot of those people are gonna end up in

1:03:40

the B-list. In other news, this episode is brought to you

1:03:42

by AG1. It's important to

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below or heading to www.drinkag1.com/wisdom.

1:04:39

That's www.drinkag1.com slash wisdom.

1:04:41

Give me a handful of creators

1:04:43

that if you could bet on

1:04:45

them somehow over the next couple

1:04:47

of years, you would think about

1:04:50

or it could just be the ones that you find

1:04:52

yourself coming back to. Like you can't wait when you

1:04:54

see that video that you talked about suggested feed or

1:04:56

whatever. I love you for adjusting based on my facial

1:04:58

reaction. That's not why I made that face. I'm

1:05:03

very weird when it comes

1:05:05

to... Ha! Let me

1:05:07

explain what I mean by this. I

1:05:10

don't consider... Like, let me give you an example. I

1:05:13

don't know if I'm betting on her.

1:05:15

Nick Dio hit me up with someone

1:05:18

yesterday and I spent like... I loved

1:05:20

it. It's not that I'm

1:05:23

betting on her. Let me see if I

1:05:25

can fucking find this. She's

1:05:27

like an intern. Like

1:05:30

this... She's got $37 on Instagram. Or

1:05:33

$137. And Dio

1:05:35

said, I bet she has $50,000 in a month and

1:05:37

I'm like, you're right. And why

1:05:40

I'm... Let me tell you where I'm going with this. I

1:05:44

don't go deep on people

1:05:46

or influencers or content creators. I

1:05:49

go very wide. I'm

1:05:52

looking for macro trends and

1:05:54

things that I think I can contribute to the conversation

1:05:56

in podcasts like this. So for me, I

1:05:59

don't actually... I can't really

1:06:01

consume anything. And

1:06:03

I consume everything. I'm trying to like really,

1:06:06

the reason I said I'm weird and you let like, I'm

1:06:08

trying to figure out how I can break this down. I

1:06:10

am, seven

1:06:14

years ago it answered Mr. Beast. Yet

1:06:17

I've never watched a Mr. Beast video in my life. Like,

1:06:21

Charlie D'Amelio was in my office for her first business

1:06:23

meeting. I might've watched one

1:06:26

full eight second dance video for her

1:06:29

to not like, I'm going so broad,

1:06:32

right? 3-1-0 baby as a rapper

1:06:34

of like, do I think, like I'll listen to

1:06:37

a song first minute. There's

1:06:39

something in the way that I, because I'm trying

1:06:42

to consume everything, it's almost like

1:06:44

I don't have the time to go deep enough.

1:06:47

And so I'm not great. I'm

1:06:50

disappointed, in a weird way, I'm disappointed in

1:06:52

myself to not be able to answer your

1:06:54

question because I've seen 50 of them in

1:06:56

the last 50 weeks. But

1:07:01

I, A, I have some form of

1:07:03

reading comprehension issues and dyslexia where like, words

1:07:06

are hard for me. So like, I could

1:07:08

tell someone that I saw them in an airport

1:07:10

in Dubai for, and I could tell them we

1:07:12

talked about Peanuts 13 years ago and

1:07:15

I could have seen their social media 90 times and

1:07:17

they could say what's my name. And I'm like,

1:07:19

I don't know. Yeah, yeah, it's kind of, I guess.

1:07:21

So I guess. I've got it in my head that

1:07:23

you're like a meteorologist, but for social

1:07:25

media, you're trying to be the weather report,

1:07:27

you're trying to take the big macro trends,

1:07:29

what's going. And I'll see things and I

1:07:31

like, but it's very hard

1:07:34

for me to say, like,

1:07:36

especially because I like being historically correct.

1:07:39

So I'm not gonna sit here and say, like, you know, I think

1:07:42

I can tell you the profile, because

1:07:45

this might help a lot of people. What's the kind of

1:07:47

person that will succeed over the next few years on social

1:07:49

media? The ones that

1:07:51

can get the noise out.

1:07:57

The biggest reason people won't win in social media is

1:07:59

people People don't have the stomach to

1:08:02

handle the feedback. People

1:08:05

won't have the stomach for the changing wins of

1:08:07

day trading. They'll be on

1:08:09

a pedestal on TikTok, all these TikTok fuckers. And

1:08:12

I say fuckers like I'm one of them. Like the people that are winning

1:08:14

on TikTok right now, their day will come. Their

1:08:17

day will come where the attention shifts and

1:08:20

they won't be ready. And will

1:08:22

they be ready after having four years of

1:08:25

being on to do it

1:08:27

again? Do you have

1:08:29

the intestinal fortitude to

1:08:31

be in perfect you, you're in such great

1:08:34

shape. If you go through a period of your life for

1:08:36

three years where you do all the wrong things and

1:08:39

you wake up three years later and say fuck, I'm

1:08:41

getting back to this dude. Do

1:08:43

you have the fucking strength? Because once you, you know, the

1:08:45

hardest thing is once you were there, when

1:08:47

you lose it to get back, right, if you were

1:08:50

making 5 million a year, say you were making 40,000

1:08:52

a year and then you blew

1:08:54

up on social and you had two years where you made

1:08:56

3 million a year. But then you're

1:08:58

not popping on social anymore. Do

1:09:01

you have the strength to go back and put

1:09:03

the work in to get back to that place?

1:09:06

Do you have the emotional capability to

1:09:08

take one step backwards to then take

1:09:10

two steps forward? Do you have the

1:09:12

grit? Do you have the self-esteem? Do

1:09:15

you have the ability to deal with

1:09:18

the ebb and flow? Do

1:09:20

you have, think about the people that get trolled. Are

1:09:22

you gonna cry and disappear? Or

1:09:25

are you gonna be Logan Paul and become a WWE

1:09:28

superstar? Like, do you have the

1:09:30

strength to deal with criticism at

1:09:32

scale? Do you have

1:09:34

the strength to deal with the toe

1:09:36

bumps? The biggest reason people aren't entrepreneurs

1:09:39

is entrepreneurship is losing constantly with the

1:09:41

occasional win. It

1:09:43

looks cool, but people don't love

1:09:45

eating shit. Talk

1:09:47

to me about how you

1:09:50

deal with criticism and the

1:09:52

inevitable ups and downs of success. You're

1:09:54

someone that has got both. By

1:09:57

being empathetic to it being a real thing.

1:10:00

reality of life. It's

1:10:02

inconceivable that you want attention and you're

1:10:04

not going to have judgment. In

1:10:07

a world that is obsessed with taking things out

1:10:09

of context and only headline reading. There's

1:10:12

no common sense to that. I

1:10:15

don't take it personal. I

1:10:17

care about the judgment of the most

1:10:19

inner circles that I have. Family and

1:10:21

friends, employees, inner circles,

1:10:23

acquaintances that became friends. I

1:10:26

can't be upset if Johnny 97

1:10:28

thinks I'm a dickface because my

1:10:30

energy is too much. I'm also

1:10:32

empathetic. I know that

1:10:34

my alpha competitive high energy jersey, I

1:10:37

know what this is. That's not for everybody. Some

1:10:39

people want to zen out. If you

1:10:41

want to zen the fuck out, I'm not your guy. I'm

1:10:45

just too empathetic.

1:10:48

I also think it's humility. At the end of the day,

1:10:50

I'm like, who the fuck am I? Gives a fuck. If

1:10:53

I die tomorrow, what's gonna happen? I'll

1:10:55

get 24 hours of love on social. People

1:10:58

will be like, oh man, this is what the fuck.

1:11:02

And then a yell I touch. Remember Gary Vee? 100%. Luckily,

1:11:05

we live in an era where we're more like, all

1:11:07

of us are more like the most famous people in

1:11:09

the world. We'll live forever. A

1:11:11

clip from this, do you know how cool it is that our

1:11:13

great, you know how fun it will be? This is

1:11:16

insane. Your and my

1:11:18

great, great, great grandchildren will

1:11:21

somehow realize, because last names things will

1:11:23

change, but somehow if they became great

1:11:25

friends, would somehow family tree it

1:11:28

and be like, holy fuck. And

1:11:30

they're gonna, hey, Jeremiah

1:11:32

794. Like, they will literally

1:11:35

watch this. Do you know how cool that is?

1:11:37

But at the end of the day, how do I handle it?

1:11:40

Humility and empathy. Talk to

1:11:42

me about just that immediate emotional reaction. I think

1:11:45

that overcoming that is something that a lot of

1:11:47

people struggle with. I think that's right. You know,

1:11:49

look, it's nice in the stock contrast with the

1:11:51

nice perspective.

1:11:54

And I don't disagree. Price

1:11:57

it in is the cost of doing business. He

1:12:00

put things on the internet. People going to say

1:12:02

mean stuff to yes and fighting against that is.

1:12:04

I'd think I'm not trying to stop the tide

1:12:06

that you know, citing. The. Us.

1:12:09

You know some people like like getting

1:12:11

punched in the face suffering to Tim

1:12:13

Kennedy. Yes the I like getting punched

1:12:15

him face. That's. My answer. I

1:12:19

don't know what else to tell you. the up at

1:12:21

Idle your nature is my nature. I was sit on

1:12:23

my whole life. I was a Russian immigrant. I came

1:12:25

over here. Russia was the bad guys when I came

1:12:27

here. So. I got

1:12:29

sit on in grade school. I didn't speak English

1:12:31

when I move. I'd is the story of how

1:12:33

very rarely. Very. Rarely think I've

1:12:35

done it once or twice I'm going there. I

1:12:37

often talk about i lived in Quip. people are

1:12:39

really know me my stories. I went from Queens

1:12:41

to Edison, New Jersey and us in Jersey where

1:12:43

I became a Jets fan, an entrepreneur. But it's

1:12:45

not fully true. Queens to

1:12:47

Dover for a year, then addison.

1:12:50

Doctor doesn't make my story. I never understood

1:12:52

why, but I'm starting to tap into it.

1:12:55

He. Was flock and bad because I didn't

1:12:57

speak English and because I went outside

1:13:00

a lot. I got picked on a

1:13:02

lot and I was a rough neighborhood.

1:13:04

I remember one story. that's the main

1:13:06

story. Remember that era where it I

1:13:08

saw the Kid P in the Pepsi

1:13:10

top. Like by the three.

1:13:13

And. A came over and of seven of them bullied me

1:13:15

to drink it. I was five. Second,

1:13:17

Five. And. I

1:13:20

finally tried to like if I were him, I

1:13:22

don't It's very blurry and forty three years ago. But

1:13:24

like. I didn't speak

1:13:26

English. Abbasi When you're an animal, like

1:13:28

a human at five, you know what's happening.

1:13:31

But like. Then I was a terrible

1:13:33

student. I was these of apps. And.

1:13:35

This was the eighties. there was no political correctness.

1:13:37

My teachers literally would look me in a big

1:13:39

these are grown ups through your teachers. You look

1:13:42

up to them the like you're a loser. You're.

1:13:44

Done. You're. Going To

1:13:47

fail. You're. Gonna be a garbage man. Then.

1:13:49

I also love sports. I

1:13:52

played sports all the time. You know what happens

1:13:54

when you play sports? You lose a lot. He. Wins sometimes

1:13:56

but you lose a lot. Video. Games

1:13:58

This and then I. The. Stuff

1:14:01

I did lemonade say that would sit on

1:14:03

tingly Lane and Edison New Jersey's a nine

1:14:05

year old and I would watch millions and

1:14:07

miss stick Starbucks. I would see hundreds of

1:14:09

cards drop by and not stop for my

1:14:11

sign. And occasionally get one. I

1:14:15

live the. Under. The

1:14:17

mindset of it's all shit. But.

1:14:20

It doesn't matter. The shit doesn't

1:14:22

matter. It's the fucking

1:14:24

sunshine. the occasional sunshine's that has everything.

1:14:26

And I think people with the reverse.

1:14:29

A little else of poopy makes them

1:14:31

cry. Because Are fucking soft. As

1:14:34

an A. Fucking Hard enough because I'm not.

1:14:37

Loving. Themselves I Love. Myself too

1:14:39

much to give a fuck about you.

1:14:42

I don't allow us to tell you. I don't

1:14:45

want to be delusional. I

1:14:47

don't want to be fucking living in

1:14:49

my own egos. I respects. Other

1:14:52

opinions: are you internalize.

1:14:55

For. Processing. Other

1:14:57

opinions. But. I have

1:14:59

no interest. In. Putting your

1:15:02

fucking subjective opinion about me

1:15:04

above my opinion above me.

1:15:07

That's how I got it. Neediness

1:15:10

A cause when you play someone elses opinion

1:15:12

of you above your opinion a period and

1:15:14

put my parents opinion about me. I.

1:15:17

Don't even if I'm a good you that

1:15:19

my parents who I love the most who

1:15:21

built me. if I'm not putting my mom's

1:15:23

opinion about me above me on me a

1:15:26

fuck am I going to do that about

1:15:28

Charlie, Rick's er, Susan's or seem fuck you.

1:15:31

I'm interested in what drives, you know, I

1:15:34

get a when there's a point to prove that when

1:15:36

you're a player and immigrants that when me being picked

1:15:38

on the when you feel you know what your money's

1:15:40

on you know it's funny my my. My

1:15:43

spirit doesn't come from that ship on

1:15:45

the shoulder even though I just spoke

1:15:47

with passion about it. Minds about curiosity

1:15:49

of what I like the game. I'm

1:15:51

serious. In. A wild I

1:15:54

would have loved. To been a professional athlete.

1:15:56

I'm so sad I was it. That would

1:15:59

have really really. That aside be because the

1:16:01

data was there. If I was a running

1:16:03

back in the Nfl, I would have been.

1:16:06

It would have been over and I would have ranked. Ninety.

1:16:08

Seventh in career rushing yards.

1:16:11

Four. Hundred think we are touchdowns right?

1:16:13

Ah eight keep in receptions by a running

1:16:15

back and I could have like that. would

1:16:17

have enjoyed that and would be like are

1:16:19

good for Barry Sanders he was better than

1:16:22

me and like suck you again It's Ricky

1:16:24

Williams that was better than you. That's.

1:16:27

What drives the shit out of me And entrepreneurship? I.

1:16:30

Love this game of brand building

1:16:32

and business building It you know,

1:16:34

as I'm talking, what drives me

1:16:37

as a as a professional as

1:16:39

a human? What drives me as

1:16:41

could beast happy as often as

1:16:43

possible and and interact with the

1:16:45

people I like the most as

1:16:47

often as possible. But. So.

1:16:50

Much of what I love and what

1:16:52

makes me smile is the friendships that

1:16:54

makes through the process of business, the

1:16:56

family I make through business that it's

1:16:58

so fun for me and I'm curious.

1:17:00

I love Rahmat right now. I've done

1:17:02

well. But. There are unlimited

1:17:05

people on stats that have done better.

1:17:07

The me. But. I

1:17:09

have a sneaky feeling that I'm going to catch up. And

1:17:11

so what drives me as I think I've been built

1:17:14

for the fourth Quarter my whole life. I've.

1:17:16

Alluded to earlier. Everything I've been

1:17:18

building is for sixty to seventy. So

1:17:20

does the want to be working and grinding when

1:17:22

he sixteen some? to course, because it's my hobby.

1:17:26

I. Don't want to do anything that I don't like. I.

1:17:29

Was a dean of students. I didn't like it. I.

1:17:31

Was smart enough to get bees

1:17:33

and sees. But. I didn't even have that.

1:17:35

You're a me. If. You said to me

1:17:37

hasten it's a great interview to meet. It was

1:17:39

the only hard thing this picture rock let I'd

1:17:41

be dead eyed must have had literally rather give

1:17:44

you like lots of money or like do at

1:17:46

a bit I would go on a conference call

1:17:48

to old your employees for fourteen hours that I

1:17:50

know have sooner than help you hang their picture.

1:17:54

So of course I want to do that. Because.

1:17:56

I don't think of it as grinding. I don't think of

1:17:58

as hustle board. I think of it is. Doing

1:18:00

the thing that brings me the most joy, I would

1:18:02

rather be in a business meeting. Than

1:18:04

on a golf course. I would rather be in

1:18:06

a business meeting than sailing. I would rather be

1:18:09

in a business meeting been cooking. I'd rather be

1:18:11

in a business meeting the watching a movie. I'd

1:18:13

rather be really watching the Jets. Having

1:18:16

dinner with my family loves dinners with.

1:18:18

People. Love jam sessions at! So

1:18:20

fun to be in Austin is where I

1:18:23

learned to love it. South by Southwest on

1:18:25

the ground and hotel rooms. give me twenty

1:18:27

five, Seven, nineteen Eight Thirteen, Smart people, clever

1:18:30

people, sinking people, buffalo people, and just Cm

1:18:32

about it. I'll take that over. Busy working

1:18:34

every day the week, but there's just not

1:18:36

a lot of the garage sale and. I

1:18:40

know that's like a funny by people like a lot of the

1:18:42

kids because my tic toc videos gonna start the kids think of

1:18:44

me as the garage sale die because my tic tac videos do

1:18:46

like. I just but even

1:18:48

as. Business. Marketing by sounds

1:18:50

hurried, you know? I really love it and

1:18:52

so of course I want to be don't

1:18:54

like. I. Mean you know

1:18:57

their you hear these stories and for

1:18:59

this is crusher paths and the people who

1:19:01

retire at eighty one and then diet

1:19:03

eighty two. I. Know

1:19:05

why? They thought it

1:19:07

was what they were supposed to do. And

1:19:10

it took the like that of them. I.

1:19:13

I. Have to important things to say about this

1:19:15

one who do this forever and I really hope

1:19:17

to lives at least one hundred. Doing

1:19:19

it to. I'm incredibly

1:19:22

excited I'm making my last. Also be

1:19:24

a post a split screen of this

1:19:26

where just granted here and now seventy

1:19:28

one year old me is making billions

1:19:30

saints to is A Day on Retiring.

1:19:32

Both. I'm running businesses and making content.

1:19:35

This. In the great joy my life. I love

1:19:37

all of you. I hope that all the archives of

1:19:39

everything I've put out and bring value to all new.

1:19:41

But today was the day I woke up and

1:19:43

I said i don't like this anymore so you're open

1:19:46

small This trajectory not continuing in the way to

1:19:48

easier I know in a way that would make your

1:19:50

fucking head spin. In. Equal visceral

1:19:52

high energy of like the day I

1:19:54

wake up and like fuck this shit

1:19:56

I'm out in the. In. The same

1:19:58

way that I have full conviction. And as I sit

1:20:00

here right now, that day will never come. We'll get back

1:20:03

to talking to Gary in one minute, but first I need

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your business now no matter what

1:21:05

stage you're in. How

1:21:07

will you... Do you

1:21:09

think about the myth

1:21:13

of identity at all? The fact

1:21:15

that you can... So

1:21:17

much of you and who you are is wrapped up

1:21:19

in being that guy and letting go of it. Not

1:21:22

for me. I'm

1:21:24

aware. Not for me. One

1:21:27

of the reasons humility is my partner is I

1:21:30

don't give a fuck about Gary Vee. I'm

1:21:33

proud of it, but it is not who I

1:21:35

think I am. It is not my identity. Where do

1:21:37

you take that

1:21:39

from? That detachment of it? No, where do you take

1:21:41

who you are from? If it's not from the things

1:21:43

that you spend... You evidently

1:21:45

take pride in being successful in grinding? In order,

1:21:47

starting with my mom and dad, then my sister,

1:21:50

then my brother, in order, probably

1:21:52

the top 100 people that have spent the most minutes

1:21:54

with me in my life and what

1:21:56

they think about me. So

1:22:01

for people who are wanting

1:22:04

to go on a path of success

1:22:07

and exposure to the real

1:22:09

world, is that a

1:22:11

prophylactic, having a circle of

1:22:13

people that you trust, that

1:22:15

you have faith, have their best faith

1:22:17

in you and care about you beyond not

1:22:19

just what you do but who you are?

1:22:23

And the fact that you're a

1:22:25

believer, having those hundred people be someone that you want

1:22:28

to do the best for. To

1:22:35

me, you become sustainable

1:22:37

and unbeatable if your framework

1:22:39

is giving, not taking. And if

1:22:41

you do that with those hundred people, of

1:22:43

course the outcome of them caring about you will happen. You've

1:22:46

been giving them deposits of love and

1:22:48

emotional strength, financial strength, whatever you're providing

1:22:50

for them. And so, yeah, I think

1:22:52

simplicity is a big game. It's

1:22:54

really cool how this all worked out for me.

1:22:56

I could have been born in any era. The

1:22:59

fact that I'm born in the era where the merit

1:23:02

of attention and business is all

1:23:04

based on the internet now, no gatekeepers. Good

1:23:07

for me. I'm good with that. Two,

1:23:10

the era of judgment at scale

1:23:12

that will disintegrate the most insecure

1:23:15

and allow the most

1:23:17

confident to shine, leave impact, inspire

1:23:19

the next generation to get the true

1:23:22

self-esteem, not fake self-esteem, and

1:23:24

be able to navigate these choppy waters. Good

1:23:26

for me. I

1:23:28

read a really interesting Twitter thread

1:23:31

last week about, I've thought about this for

1:23:33

ages, I called it the elderly

1:23:36

clout paradox, which is we're often told about

1:23:39

the perils of fame too young, the Macaulay

1:23:41

Culkins of the world, the Britney Spears of

1:23:43

the world. And that if

1:23:45

you have never known life as

1:23:48

anything other than private jets and screaming

1:23:50

fans and paparazzi, it can be disquieting

1:23:52

because you don't actually know what life

1:23:54

is for most people. And if that

1:23:56

ever gets taken away from you, who

1:23:58

are you? What's your identity? But no one

1:24:00

ever talks about the pearls of fame too old. And

1:24:02

what does it mean if you're some,

1:24:05

let's say, dusty Canadian psychologist

1:24:07

working in the annals of Toronto University and

1:24:09

then a bald MMA commentator plucks you out

1:24:11

of obscurity and puts you on one of

1:24:14

the biggest world tours that any speaking tour

1:24:16

has ever, maybe one of the biggest speaking

1:24:18

tours in history and sell

1:24:20

20 million, 30 million, 40 million

1:24:22

bucks and now so many people criticizing you and

1:24:24

all the rest of this stuff. No one talks

1:24:27

about that because you- I

1:24:29

feel way better for Jordan

1:24:31

than I feel for Charlie. Jordan

1:24:34

Peterson was a grown man and

1:24:36

has built foundational abilities to have

1:24:38

a relationship. This is why the

1:24:41

only thing that I don't quite know about

1:24:43

that, it's

1:24:46

difficult to be thrust into the world and never know

1:24:48

what it's like to be normal before you've got a

1:24:51

sense of who you are as a person. I don't

1:24:53

disagree. I don't disagree that that's something that's tough. But

1:24:55

what about when you're ripped from your moorings and you

1:24:57

thought you knew who you were, well

1:25:00

the good news is for both those people, you're fundamentally in

1:25:02

control. Both Charlie D'Amelio

1:25:04

and Jordan Peterson are fully allowed

1:25:06

to disappear. Would

1:25:08

they be? How would they be able to

1:25:10

hide? They're gonna be noticed every single place that

1:25:12

they go. The most famous people in the world

1:25:14

over time once they stop feeding them system can

1:25:16

disappear into obscurity. Do

1:25:20

you know how not relevant Jordan Peterson

1:25:22

and Charlie D'Amelio are in 10 years

1:25:24

if they never show up again? State's

1:25:28

paying attention. Yeah, the pace of the

1:25:30

news cycle means that if you're

1:25:32

only as good as your next video and

1:25:34

if you stop producing, you'll become obsolete very

1:25:36

quickly. 100, it happens all the time.

1:25:39

Do you know how fucking famous TV stars

1:25:41

were 15 years ago? Tom

1:25:45

Selleck was the most famous fucking 1980s. My

1:25:49

mom fancies Tom Selleck. She was

1:25:51

like his crush. I mean, yeah. What

1:25:53

a sturt, he's my crush, isn't he? Literally half

1:25:56

the dudes in the world and every girl did in 1983, but

1:25:58

not now. Like, you

1:26:00

know, no, I don't know. And

1:26:02

listen, that's a legend that's different. And it's like play,

1:26:04

but like, I mean, it happens all the time. Like

1:26:07

lonely girl 15 was the most famous person on YouTube

1:26:09

in 2006. Right?

1:26:13

Like, like it happens all the

1:26:15

time. Jerome Jar. I

1:26:17

mentioned him earlier. Jerome Jar was the

1:26:21

most famous person on Vine. He

1:26:23

represented what, take whoever you think

1:26:25

is the single hottest young

1:26:28

person right now on TikTok because he

1:26:30

represented that. And then he went to

1:26:32

Africa and disappeared off the face of the earth. This

1:26:36

is the best part of life. You are

1:26:39

in control. You want to shit about

1:26:41

the president? Either side, leave

1:26:44

America. You want to say that

1:26:46

your mom is toxic? Stop talking to her. You

1:26:48

want to like, your buddies

1:26:51

are dragging you down. Leave your

1:26:53

friends. You don't, you

1:26:55

know, Europe is not entrepreneurial enough.

1:26:57

Come here. Like stop fucking crying.

1:27:00

Like I'm not going to cry for Charlie or

1:27:02

Jordan or me or you because I genuinely

1:27:04

believe we have the capacity to

1:27:06

make change. You

1:27:09

mentioned earlier on about how there

1:27:14

is a temptation for creators to try and cash

1:27:16

in too quickly that they can continue to put

1:27:19

the thumb on the scale. I think you said.

1:27:21

I was saying like extracting attention. Of course. like

1:27:24

you know that this music video

1:27:27

style works and like you only

1:27:29

made 13 of them, not 700. Correct.

1:27:31

Go ahead. I understand. That's less

1:27:34

cashing in. That's more like extracting the most value

1:27:36

out of the moment. So it's the inverse that

1:27:38

I'm talking about. So someone

1:27:40

has a competitive advantage at the moment. They

1:27:42

continue to place their thumb on the scale.

1:27:44

They continue to rinse and repeat with authenticity

1:27:46

and originality and quality and quantity. This thing

1:27:48

that is going to continue to spin the wheels

1:27:50

and get the engine moving. How

1:27:53

do you know when it is time to cash

1:27:55

in? Because if, as you

1:27:57

say, I am worried for these

1:27:59

tech topics. How do you know when to

1:28:01

get married? You make

1:28:04

an emotional, in your body, things

1:28:06

start to happen. You can feel,

1:28:08

subjectively, you feel like

1:28:10

you're making a subjective decision. I

1:28:13

don't know whether people should be making business decisions

1:28:16

with as much emotion as they do for getting

1:28:18

married, though. Would it not be more strategic than

1:28:20

that? Couple things. I

1:28:22

think there's a lot of validity in that sentence.

1:28:25

I think I'm making a slightly different parallel, which is

1:28:28

nobody will know. You

1:28:31

never actually really know if

1:28:33

you made the right decision until the post game.

1:28:37

So when should someone cash in? Where

1:28:40

I was trying to go with that, and maybe I was going

1:28:42

down a bad path, or maybe I'm still there, I'm gonna hold

1:28:44

on to it for a second, is you need to just kinda

1:28:46

make a call. Like, you

1:28:49

know, there's been many people that sold too soon, and

1:28:52

there's many people that sold too late,

1:28:55

right? So that happens all the

1:28:57

time. Instagram. Universally,

1:29:00

people thought Facebook was stupid, and

1:29:03

they thought Instagram pulled one off. They

1:29:05

were wrong. One billion was one of the great M&A

1:29:08

steals of all time. Right? On

1:29:10

the flip side, there's been many companies, I mean,

1:29:12

the amount of entrepreneurs that are listening right now

1:29:15

that had a $30 million offer on their

1:29:17

business, they're like, fuck you, I'm fucking Bezos

1:29:19

motherfucker, and then a year later, I have

1:29:21

zero. You know that, right?

1:29:24

You've been around enough already to know especially

1:29:27

that, notice what number I used, that

1:29:29

nice little 1534, and they're dead inside.

1:29:34

They're dead inside. This goes back to who's gonna win,

1:29:36

the one that could say, I

1:29:38

sit here, when I tell

1:29:40

you it is insane that I did not invest

1:29:42

in Uber's Angel round, there's no logic behind it.

1:29:44

He was my best bud. I was

1:29:47

investing constantly in that era. And

1:29:49

the serendipity of me playing

1:29:51

just enough defense because I just bought my first

1:29:54

real apartment in New York and it was just

1:29:56

a little less liquid than the ideology I had,

1:29:59

fucked me on an investment. I could have made $500 million

1:30:01

on, and I love it. I

1:30:04

love it. But for a lot of

1:30:06

people, that's the death blow. That's why most people get

1:30:08

the fuck out of this game. They can't deal with

1:30:10

like the what if. Fuck a what if, there only

1:30:12

is. So when should people cash

1:30:14

in? I don't know. I think they need to make

1:30:16

a decision on what feels right. And when they

1:30:18

go to sell something, or when they go

1:30:20

to sell it, or when they

1:30:22

never monetize their audience, but now they want

1:30:25

to sell their first sneaker, or wine, or

1:30:27

book, or collectible digital aspects.

1:30:30

You just gotta go with it. When you gotta

1:30:32

go with it, you can feel

1:30:34

crescendo. Let

1:30:37

me go actually detailed instead of macro. Let

1:30:39

me go micro. Here's a good reason

1:30:42

to sell something or cash in. You're

1:30:44

tired. You've been going really hard for

1:30:46

six years. You didn't come for much. You're

1:30:49

watching your single, your father

1:30:51

passed away when you were nine. You're watching

1:30:53

your mom grind. She's 61.

1:30:56

You just went over for dinner, and she looks tired

1:30:58

as fuck. And you're like,

1:31:00

you know what? Even though I want to keep building

1:31:02

more equity with my audience before I cash in, I'm

1:31:05

gonna go in for cash in right now, because you know what? A

1:31:07

couple million bucks right now. I can get my mom

1:31:09

to retire. I'm gonna buy her a little house. Her

1:31:12

sisters live down in the middle of fucking nowhere in

1:31:14

North Carolina. I can buy a fucking house for $280,000.

1:31:18

She'll be happy. I could use

1:31:20

a fucking vacation. Actually, I'm doing

1:31:22

too many things. I could use a couple of those bucks

1:31:24

to add two teammates. I don't need to edit anymore, right?

1:31:27

That's a for instance. What's

1:31:30

your perspective on continuing

1:31:33

to ladder up as you're growing,

1:31:35

continuing to just do little bits, little

1:31:37

bits, little bits, as opposed to waiting

1:31:40

until you have a huge amount of

1:31:42

latent? Both work. Both can work.

1:31:45

Look, I view this as a

1:31:47

value exchange framework. If

1:31:49

you're bringing value, one of the reasons I

1:31:51

like selling stuff is I believe in what I sell. I

1:31:55

have a funny feeling you believe in that drink. I don't think

1:31:57

you mailed that in. No, we were involved. every

1:32:00

single step of the way. 12

1:32:02

months of development, six months of

1:32:05

testing. When I tell you, you

1:32:07

know how Amazon works, until it comes out you don't actually

1:32:09

know the price, because they keep lowering it. What,

1:32:13

this? Whatever the price is, it's not high

1:32:15

enough. This $27 worth of fucking thinking? Like

1:32:17

I believe in this more than my life. I

1:32:20

know that I'm one of the few people, the hundredths,

1:32:22

but that's not a lot of eight billion. I'm one

1:32:24

of the hundredths of people that could have wrote this

1:32:26

book, because I'm that much

1:32:29

of a practitioner on every platform. There are very

1:32:31

few people on earth that give

1:32:33

as much fucks about LinkedIn as they do about

1:32:35

TikTok and everything in between as I do. We'll

1:32:38

also have a 2,000 person, 350

1:32:40

million dollar agency that works with, spends billions

1:32:42

of dollars in media on social. Like I

1:32:44

got it. You know

1:32:46

how good I feel? You

1:32:49

know how nice it is to sell this? If

1:32:52

you believe in what you're selling, there is

1:32:54

no better thing. If you don't believe in

1:32:56

what you're selling, there is no worse. I

1:32:59

mean, that naval quote, you're doing sales

1:33:01

because you sucked at marketing. You're doing

1:33:03

marketing because you sucked at product. And

1:33:05

I think authenticity is a word

1:33:08

that comes up a lot in the book. And

1:33:10

I think rightly so. People

1:33:12

are so concerned in

1:33:15

an age of high mistrust of

1:33:19

messaging from mainstream media, from independent media. All

1:33:21

of the guardrails are off, so the independent

1:33:23

media can talk about whatever they want. Apparently

1:33:25

the guardrails don't even exist for fucking mainstream

1:33:27

media anymore now. AI, deepfake, automation, all of

1:33:29

this stuff. I think the

1:33:32

more that you can signal, I

1:33:35

am a person of trustworthy, verifiable,

1:33:37

authentic, real, relatable, aspirational. And then

1:33:40

back up the signal. Yes,

1:33:42

yes, and here is some proof. Here is

1:33:44

some proof. And you know how proof happens? These

1:33:48

fucking kids hate me for pushing

1:33:50

patients like it's the fucking cure,

1:33:52

the motherfucker. I know all these

1:33:54

alpha A and B fucking winners that I see. I

1:33:57

see them every day. I read all their DMs. I watch them.

1:33:59

I'd made them. I may not remember their name, but

1:34:01

I can tell you the joke they made, Nicky

1:34:03

Cass, right? I know that fucking kid is funny

1:34:06

as fuck, and he's got fire in his belly,

1:34:08

and I can do shit like that, and

1:34:10

I'm telling you right now, the number one

1:34:12

kryptonite for all these fucking super men and

1:34:14

women is fucking patience. They want this

1:34:17

shit so fast, because they're insecure.

1:34:19

They want to show everybody they already won, because

1:34:22

they play for them, not themselves. Could you

1:34:24

imagine if athletes played for the audience? Can

1:34:27

you imagine if athletes cried when they're home? The

1:34:30

Knicks get booed. I'm so pumped about the

1:34:32

Knicks right now, finally. The Knicks get booed every

1:34:35

single game, every single basketball team

1:34:37

that plays in a major city. If

1:34:39

they're down 11-nothing and have to call a timeout, because they

1:34:42

came out shitty, Philly, New York,

1:34:44

L.A. They get booed. Could

1:34:46

you imagine if they're like, I'm not going back out

1:34:48

there, I just got booed. That's literally

1:34:50

like being a content creator when somebody shits on you or you

1:34:53

have a bad day, and you don't want to post again. People

1:34:56

don't have inner strength because they're insecure.

1:34:58

That is what I'm obsessed about, 80% of my content,

1:35:01

to find different ways to get people

1:35:04

into self-love, because it unlocks fucking everything.

1:35:06

You can't play if you're not strong. What

1:35:09

do you make of the culture of cynicism

1:35:11

on the internet? That, to me, seems to

1:35:13

be kind of the set point, ground zero

1:35:15

for the way that people behave online, is

1:35:17

this cutting, sardonic, very cynical, zero-some mentality. I

1:35:20

think the internet and social media doesn't

1:35:22

exist. I think they're a mirror of human

1:35:24

truth. So when I hear you

1:35:26

say, what do I think about the cynicism of the internet?

1:35:29

I take out the word internet and put it

1:35:31

in society. Aren't people that

1:35:33

cynical because they don't seem to behave that same way

1:35:36

in the real world? That's because it's scarier to do

1:35:38

it. You might get punched in the face. Keyboard

1:35:44

warriorship is real fun. People

1:35:47

do it in their own minds. They don't say it

1:35:49

to your face because they're weak. The

1:35:53

cynicism is happening in the airport right now. They're

1:35:56

like, look at her. Who does the fuck she thinks

1:35:58

she is dressing that way? They'd in their

1:36:00

head. The

1:36:04

greatest thing that ever happened to hit the human being

1:36:06

is social media. Exposed the living fuck

1:36:08

out of us and it will allow

1:36:10

us over the next decade or two

1:36:13

to take one step backwards to reassess

1:36:15

to take two steps forward. I.

1:36:17

Believe this era, social media will

1:36:19

create the great Renaissance era. I'm

1:36:21

having real conversations around and security

1:36:23

and self esteem. Why? Because I

1:36:25

think there's a lot of pressure. Because.

1:36:28

I think the conversation you and I

1:36:30

are having rebels because I think it's

1:36:32

and in everyone's face. Visiting people are

1:36:34

scared because it's a suicide and insecurity

1:36:37

and and unhappiness is fucking really feeling

1:36:39

it. But that silly thing is. Is

1:36:42

there's much more negativity and mainstream media that

1:36:44

are isn't social media? You. Can't

1:36:46

find positivity on mainstream media. You

1:36:48

can find unlimited coming with me.

1:36:51

He. Can find unlimited positivity

1:36:53

and and answers and.

1:36:56

Things that have merit and trying

1:36:58

to figure it out with optimism

1:37:00

that is practical so i i

1:37:02

i laugh about where we're at

1:37:04

right now on the sitting on

1:37:06

so so. I. Laugh

1:37:08

because this is another cliche example of the

1:37:11

world Not understand We did this with alcohol.

1:37:14

The. Nineteen thirties. In this country of America,

1:37:17

we banned alcohol. I. Love

1:37:19

And people like We need to ban social

1:37:21

media like knock yourself out. Can't

1:37:23

wait to see how that works out! Like.

1:37:25

People are so naive. As

1:37:27

if. He. The been the whole fucking the if

1:37:29

you don't want to deal with ordeal and funny thing happens

1:37:31

if we banned all social media. Read. It would

1:37:33

be a cesspool lead to more than it is now. For.

1:37:36

Hims. Com. And

1:37:38

some blot like humans are going to talk now on the

1:37:40

internet because you can hide. The. Ship

1:37:43

we used to think in our own heads

1:37:45

are only talk to our one friend about

1:37:47

were sit in our dinner table and talk

1:37:49

about we now talk about out loud that's

1:37:52

I've never even thought about that before the

1:37:54

a very interesting insight that there was no

1:37:56

outlet previously. But. Permitted

1:37:58

humans to say. the

1:38:00

fleeting negative things

1:38:03

that came to their mind because

1:38:06

the repercussions were too great and the effort of saying

1:38:08

them was too high. And the platform did not exist.

1:38:11

Mm-hmm. So. Unless

1:38:13

you were gonna chisel it into a wall in

1:38:15

ancient Rome or something. There you go, yes. And

1:38:18

so, there you have it. So

1:38:20

friends, nothing's changed. As a matter of fact,

1:38:22

I would argue the world is happier than

1:38:24

it's been historically overall. The Dark

1:38:26

Ages were as bad. World wars, what

1:38:29

do you think would be happening on social media if we were

1:38:31

in World War II right now? Like,

1:38:34

I don't understand how people don't understand this. They're like,

1:38:36

it's never been worse. I'm like, you know nothing about

1:38:38

history. If it was World

1:38:40

War II right now, what the fuck do you think

1:38:42

would be going on on social media? You

1:38:45

think Americans would be like, not

1:38:48

saying bad things about Japanese people? Like,

1:38:51

we put Japanese people in camps in

1:38:53

America. Do you know your history? The

1:38:56

fuck do you think? The only

1:38:58

difference is it exists. And by the way,

1:39:01

it's gonna be way crazier in VR

1:39:03

and others. Like, people don't get,

1:39:06

what country lines matter if we spend

1:39:08

24 hours a day in VR? How

1:39:13

should people protect themselves if

1:39:16

so much of our time is spent online

1:39:18

and so much of our interactions with other

1:39:20

people is mediated through the internet and social

1:39:23

media and social media enables people to be

1:39:25

the worst versions of themselves. For best. And

1:39:27

best versions of themselves too. They

1:39:30

mediate through thoughtfulness. We have to get smarter.

1:39:32

Discipline. Do

1:39:37

you know how much of a drug sugar is? Do

1:39:40

you know that my body, every time I see a piece

1:39:42

of candy, loses its fucking mind? Do you

1:39:44