0:02

Well, hello everybody, and welcome to the

0:04

Mini Driver Bonanza and wild

0:07

West Review podcast.

0:09

I can't believe we're going to be talking about Bonanza

0:12

TV.

0:13

It's an important show, very important.

0:17

Hello, I'm Mini Driver. I've

0:19

always loved Preust's questionnaire. It

0:22

was originally in nineteenth century

0:24

parlor game where players would ask

0:26

each other thirty five questions aimed at

0:28

revealing the other player's true nature.

0:31

In asking different people the same set of

0:34

questions, you can make observations about

0:36

which truths appear to be universal. And

0:38

it made me wonder, what if these questions

0:41

were just the jumping off point, what greater

0:43

depths would be revealed if I asked

0:45

these questions as conversation starters.

0:47

So I adapted Prus's questionnaire and

0:50

I wrote my own seven questions that I personally

0:52

think are pertinent to a person's story. They

0:54

are when and where were you happiest?

0:57

What is the quality you like least about yourself?

1:00

What relationship, real or fictionalized,

1:02

defines love for you? What question

1:04

would you most like answered, What

1:06

person, place, or experience has shaped

1:09

you the most? What would be your last

1:11

meal? And can you tell me something in

1:13

your life that's grown out of a personal

1:15

disaster, and I've gathered

1:17

a group of really remarkable

1:20

people, ones that I am honored

1:22

and humbled to have had the chance to engage

1:24

with. You may not hear their answers

1:26

to all seven of these questions. We've

1:28

whittled it down to which questions

1:31

felt closest to their experience, or

1:33

the most surprising, or created

1:36

the most fertile ground to connect.

1:40

My guest today on many questions is Rob

1:42

Delaney. I think people think

1:44

of Rob as a brilliant comedian

1:47

and actor, and I mean I do too,

1:50

But the thing that has always stayed

1:52

with me about him is his writing. I

1:55

loved the finely crafted, hilarious

1:57

darkness and truth of his and

1:59

the wonderful Sharon Horgan's show Catastrophe,

2:03

but it is his book A Heart that

2:05

Works, that I returned to again and again.

2:08

We first met over social media when I was

2:10

on a TV show called Speechless, where

2:12

I played a mum with a nonverbal kid,

2:14

and we'd had this conversation about signing

2:17

because his son, Henry, had a tracheotomy

2:19

and couldn't speak. His frankness

2:22

and generosity in sharing Henry's

2:24

condition and looking for solutions

2:26

for him were so diligent and thorough.

2:29

He was clearly a devoted father

2:32

who happened to be extremely funny. Henry

2:35

died in twenty eighteen from

2:37

an ependymoma, which is an aggressive

2:39

form of cancer in the shape of

2:41

a brain tumor. Somehow

2:44

Rob and his family survived Henry's death,

2:47

and Rob went on to write A Heart That Works,

2:50

which to me really is

2:52

one of the clearest, most keenly observed

2:54

meditations on life, love and grief

2:57

that I've ever read. It

2:59

is a great privilege to get to talk to Rob

3:02

today. Now,

3:04

what do you want to ask me? Rob?

3:05

Okay the pod? So, I know this is your

3:08

podcast, but I first wanted to say not too

3:10

long ago. You know, I have kids, and sometimes

3:13

after you've watched you know, Goonies and Gremlins

3:15

and all the ones that you can watch with their kids,

3:17

there you realize there's like a finite

3:20

amount, right, So I was like, for

3:22

god, what next Phantom of the Opera?

3:25

And so this is what I thought putting it in.

3:27

I was I was like, this is just to

3:29

kill some time with my kids, and I put

3:31

it in. And it turns

3:34

out Joel Schumacher is the

3:36

best possible person to direct

3:38

that insane story, and

3:40

the movie was superb and

3:42

I was weeping at the end. So

3:45

this is a full throated endorsement

3:48

of The Phantom of the Opera, in which you played

3:50

Carlotta. Am I right about that? Yes, yes,

3:53

just I'll watch it again.

3:55

I am so glad that your transition

3:58

from the movies of childhood

4:01

into more adult Fair was

4:04

fans of the Opera. I think I was in a different

4:06

film to everybody else in that film, and I rather

4:08

like the film.

4:09

That I was in.

4:09

Yeah, I mean, I like fanso of the Opera,

4:12

but I also like this weird confection.

4:15

You know, you realize he's sort of one of those guys

4:17

who're like, what is he up to? And then

4:19

he really his work ripens

4:22

and retrospect and you look at it and you're like, god, damn

4:24

it, you know, because there's the ones you love out of the

4:26

gate, and then there's ones where you're like really,

4:28

and then you look back and you're like, no, that's awesome.

4:30

He's amazing. He's

4:33

amazing, And I'm telling you go watch

4:35

his Batman.

4:37

I will.

4:39

His Batman. He's a genius and

4:42

the funniest, the funniest man

4:44

to hang out with the wiest set. I don't know

4:46

if I've said it on this podcast. When we

4:48

were filming our set was the happiest

4:50

set on the lot. And they

4:52

were filming Eyes wide Shirts at the same

4:54

time, and they were also filming Alexander,

4:58

two sets that were I

5:00

would say, dark, less

5:03

happy. We got

5:05

some notes slipped under our studio

5:07

door, which was hilarious

5:11

from the eyesword shut studios,

5:13

saying don't look at

5:15

any of us when we are going in and

5:17

out of the studio. Obviously we

5:20

sent them notes back saying we love

5:22

you and we see you. But the other thing was

5:25

Colin Farrell, he'd made phone booth with Joel,

5:30

was I think often trying

5:32

to escape his set.

5:34

And he would come and he had that very

5:37

blonde hair and you'd

5:39

see him sitting in his

5:41

funny outfit with his very bright platinum

5:43

hair, watching us

5:46

either light a huge dance number or

5:48

rehearse it and practice it. And

5:50

he was so happy there and

5:52

it was the happiest set. It was proper

5:55

song and dance and amazing and

5:58

Joel wouldn't have it any other way. And if there was any

6:00

bad behavior, obviously not from

6:02

me, because I was happy in my wig with

6:04

my small dog. But there was some bad

6:06

behavior and he was so hysterically

6:09

funny about it because what he'd

6:11

do is he'd gather everyone together, not

6:14

single out the person who was being a total

6:16

ass, and he would say,

6:18

he'd be like, I just want you in now.

6:21

There's nothing I like more in the whole

6:23

world than a funeral

6:25

scene. And if

6:28

you want to make me give you a huge

6:30

fucking funeral, I will do it. Wow,

6:32

And I'll get Andrew to write a funereal

6:35

song.

6:37

That was its quality.

6:40

He was amazing. I love love him,

6:43

Thank you. I'm so glad that your children loved

6:46

it.

6:46

They like it.

6:47

Where they frightened?

6:48

Yeah, at times they were are

6:50

you okay? When I'm weeping at the end, I'm

6:52

being like, that's what That's

6:55

what it looks like. Strongly

7:00

pro phantom style relationship,

7:02

underground cavern, you know, imprisonment,

7:05

tutelage, all that stuff is what makes

7:07

a relationship sing powodynamics

7:12

trauma.

7:13

I'm very glad that we've got into Rob's

7:15

idea of love so early on. Where

7:22

and when were you happiest?

7:25

Oh boy, well it's funny

7:27

now, I mean, you know, to

7:31

hit the ground running hard when

7:33

I hear happiness. Now. You

7:35

know, you know, Minnie, that

7:38

I have a son named Henry

7:41

who died five years ago, And

7:44

so when I

7:46

dare to feel happy now, which

7:49

I do, there is it's

7:51

almost like if you look like a marble

7:54

tabletop that was white, but it had all these

7:56

gray marble marblings,

7:59

I guess you would call it in them. That's what

8:01

my happiness looks like now. My happiness is not

8:03

like monochromatic. It's shot

8:06

through with sadness. You

8:08

know. I rode my bicycle

8:10

here today and

8:12

I passed the house that

8:15

Henry died in, and I looked in

8:17

the window. Other people live

8:19

there now, but I looked by as I rode by my

8:21

bike and thought of Henry in his

8:23

final weeks and days. So I

8:26

guess anytime now that

8:28

I'm holding ideally

8:31

more than one family member, I do

8:33

kind of like to be smushed by

8:35

them. But if I can have, say,

8:38

at least two boys, and I have three boys

8:41

who are alive. Now, if I'm holding

8:44

two or more family members

8:46

and just sort of tousling their

8:48

hair, that's the

8:50

most happy I can be. Yeah,

8:52

I love it. And happiness for me now was different

8:54

because I now know what

8:58

the things that we love most in treasure the most and

9:01

believe are going to like outlast

9:03

us might not. So

9:05

I know how fleeting it all

9:07

is. So I could

9:09

be wrong, but I do feel like my perception

9:12

of time and

9:16

the sort of impermanence

9:18

of life is different

9:21

from most people, not everybody, because

9:23

the people who've been through the same as me and worse.

9:26

But I would say more than your average

9:29

civilian. I

9:32

know how it can all just go away, And

9:34

so yeah, holding,

9:37

smelling, squeezing more

9:40

than one family member, That's what I like to be. I mean, I would

9:42

like to lie down on a couch and just have them all sit on top

9:44

of me, and then I would be like, this is

9:46

it.

9:47

I love the smush

9:50

version of happiness,

9:53

and I fully endorse and agree

9:55

with that. I think it's really interesting

9:58

the idea that is

10:00

super binary about things like happiness

10:03

and sadness and right and wrong,

10:06

given that most of our world takes

10:08

place in the gray. I

10:10

love that idea that happiness

10:13

contains sadness and sadness contains happiness,

10:16

and that it's not this idea of it

10:18

being pure unadulterated

10:21

joy, but happiness is being able to

10:23

ride your bike by the house where Henry

10:26

died. And it's sad, but I

10:29

was thinking that the other day Rob and

10:31

I did this amazing event called Letters

10:33

Live at the Albert Hall together. And

10:36

whenever I see Rob, because I have a son called

10:38

Henry and Rob has a son called Henry, I feel

10:40

connected because of our Henry's and I think about

10:42

your Henry. And

10:45

Rob just became a citizen

10:47

of the United Kingdom.

10:49

Sure did, which welcome.

10:51

I can see you're drinking tea. Well done. Part

10:54

of that is Henry lived here, Henry

10:56

died here in England, and there is a connection

10:59

to that which is wrapped up

11:01

in the moving forward of your own lives,

11:03

of yours and your wife and your children. He

11:06

is part of the roots of that.

11:08

And that's to me incredibly

11:11

beautiful and happy, notwithstanding

11:14

the profound, unimaginable

11:16

for most of us sadness

11:19

of losing a child. So

11:22

I think we could all stand to have

11:25

it all intertwine a bit more and not

11:27

be so frightened of things

11:30

holding more than one truth.

11:32

Yeah, and you've got to let it all move through

11:34

you. There's this quote, I'm not

11:37

like a practicing Christian. I did

11:39

grow up going to Catholic church and stuff.

11:42

But when I got sober twenty years

11:44

ago, I got this

11:46

recovery book and I had a quote

11:48

in the beginning from a guy named Jesus Christ,

11:51

and the quote said,

11:54

if you bring forth what is within

11:56

you, what is within you will save

11:58

you. If you do not bring forth

12:01

what is within you, what is within you will

12:03

destroy you. And

12:07

no, I don't know if he said that, but it made it past

12:09

random house copy editors and all

12:11

that, and that really struck me

12:13

because, like, if you let stuff

12:16

move through you and don't deny it. I'm

12:18

not saying if you're like I should go slap

12:20

that guy in the road, that you should do that.

12:22

But if you haven't urge to write a song or roll

12:25

down hill even though you're forty, then

12:27

do it, you know what I mean, Because if you don't, that stuff's

12:29

gonna build up and you're gonna have

12:32

a heart attack three weeks earlier than you would have otherwise.

12:35

You know, get a pull up up your ass

12:37

because you're just so wound up tight and

12:40

you yeah,

12:44

you don't put a pup grows in

12:46

case there are doctors listening. Carry carry on, carry

12:48

on, But you know what I mean. You've got to let it flow

12:50

through you. And so if you're feeling sad, feel sad.

12:53

It's not bad to be sad, It's

12:56

normal. And if you let it happen, then it'll

12:58

dissipate, you'll kind of tabolize

13:00

it. But if you're like, don't you feel sad,

13:03

then you're in real trouble. And it

13:06

has only taken me almost fifty years to learn

13:08

that on paper, and now I'm trying to really

13:11

absorb it and work with it.

13:12

Can I ask you, because I'm fascinated

13:15

about this idea of happiness, were

13:17

you aware of a period where you

13:20

felt guilty for

13:23

feeling happiness in the first times

13:25

that you felt it after Henry died?

13:27

Yes?

13:28

And were you very clear about that? And

13:30

did you either have help

13:32

or did you help yourself by going, this

13:35

is on its way to somewhere else, and this is just

13:38

what is and I'm going to be in

13:40

the isness of this.

13:42

So I was really

13:46

really lucky that i

13:48

had years of twelve step

13:50

recovery under my belt because

13:54

I'm as messy and as

13:57

selfish and as kinked

14:00

and calcified does anybody,

14:03

but due to recovery

14:06

I've been able to sort of not

14:09

like hate those facts,

14:12

and I can sort of turn on a

14:14

light switch and look at them and be like

14:16

honest about them and then gradually

14:19

start to work through them. So

14:22

when Henry died and

14:25

I heard that there were bereaved

14:27

parent groups that you could

14:29

go to and be around other

14:32

bereaved parents, I didn't do

14:34

what some people would do. And

14:37

I would say more of these people

14:39

would be men than women, because this is a more sort

14:42

of classically negative masculine trade.

14:44

I'm not saying you can't. You many can't have classically

14:47

negative, what are considered masculine trades,

14:49

but a lot of men would be like, yeah, I'm just gonna

14:51

just watch the football and maybe drink a little bourbon

14:54

and stuff it down, and I'm not gonna go talk

14:56

to somebody about my field. You know, my son's dead. I'll

14:58

just be said forever, things will

15:00

be terrible, forever. That's fine. But

15:02

I was like, Nope, I'm going directly to the bereathed

15:04

parents group. And that was super helpful

15:06

because I remember the first time I saw

15:09

a film after Henry

15:11

died, and this would be months after he died. I'm

15:15

like going to a movie in the daytime

15:18

alone, and

15:20

I'm thinking to myself, how

15:23

dare I go

15:25

to a movie? What kind

15:28

of monster goes

15:31

to a movie when

15:33

their son's ashes are sitting

15:36

on a shelf at home, you know,

15:38

and some are scattered in places that he loved.

15:41

You're gonna go to a movie.

15:44

But like I would tell a different

15:46

breathed parent, like, hey, man, you know what, go

15:48

to a movie, or like have bacon

15:51

on the cheeseburg, Get the bacon,

15:54

you know, like you

15:56

have an hour between meetings

15:58

and you just happened to walk by a place that

16:00

does half hour foot massages

16:03

in a little chair. Get this studid

16:05

thing. Your kid died, you know. But to

16:07

me, it was like, you can't go to a movie.

16:10

And so luckily talking to other berieved parents that were

16:12

like, mate, you can go to a movie, and

16:14

in fact, you should go to a movie. And

16:16

as a bereaved dad or mom who's

16:19

years ahead of you in this journey, I'm actually gonna

16:21

prescribe that you go to a movie.

16:24

And so yeah, I definitely felt guilt. I

16:26

get it because our big frontal

16:28

lobes like look at you and me, we write

16:30

books and like are like, you

16:33

know, like look at her to thinking and I are talking

16:36

and uh like were

16:38

These frontal lobes are

16:41

not the most helpful things

16:43

that we have, or rather, at the very least, they're not the

16:45

oldest parts of us. The oldest parts of us are

16:47

like smell and like fight or flight.

16:50

Right, So my frontal lobe

16:52

can get it that I

16:55

shouldn't feel guilty about

16:57

my son's death. He died of a brain

16:59

to with all they know about

17:02

brain tumors now, they don't know why

17:04

they happen, and this is one they don't

17:06

know how to fix. So I

17:08

didn't put it in there. So it's

17:11

not my fault that he died. I can say that, right,

17:13

But the sense of smell part

17:15

of my brain, the fight or flight part, is like, yeah, but he

17:18

died before you. You know, it's

17:21

your fault. You did something wrong. You know,

17:23

you didn't dig a whole miles

17:26

under the earth in Sweden to try to find

17:28

a friggin root that you could get

17:30

the essence of to cure his cancer.

17:32

You didn't.

17:33

It's your fault, you know, And so you

17:35

need to know that you're going to feel

17:38

the guilt if your kid dies before you.

17:41

It's part of what happens when your kid dies, And

17:45

intellectually you'll understand that it's

17:47

not your fault, but you'll

17:49

still feel guilty. Yeah, and I

17:52

guess the next thing I'll say

17:54

is, oh, well, exactly,

17:57

I'm not able to sew that up with like a I

18:00

have to.

18:00

It's really interesting hearing about that. And I love the

18:02

idea that your doctors prescribing

18:05

you were other breps who

18:07

are just a little further down the corridor than

18:10

you were. And that's that

18:13

makes me happy.

18:14

Good you had that support.

18:32

Okay, so next question, what

18:35

quality do you like least about yourself?

18:37

I mean, the thing that first came to

18:40

mind is selfishness. And

18:43

it's weird because the selfishness I feel now

18:45

at age forty six, I

18:47

think, I am you.

18:49

Look forty six, thank you in

18:51

a nice way. I'm fifty

18:53

three, so I think is

18:56

a spring chicken.

18:58

We're very foxy fifty three.

19:00

That's true.

19:00

I mean, I no, people can't see you. It is interesting that you do

19:02

wear a ball gown that barely fits

19:05

the train of your ball gown barely fits into

19:07

the little studio, which is funny.

19:08

Your rider is weird, and

19:11

you insisted on me wearing this,

19:13

So that's what I'm doing.

19:15

That's the funniest possible. Yes,

19:18

And like I said, you're wearing it and you and

19:20

you said it's because I insisted.

19:24

That's the funniest thing I've heard in several months. Okay,

19:27

So what I was gonna say is the selfishness that I feel at

19:29

forty six is not very different from the selfishness

19:31

I felt as a little kid. It's weird,

19:33

is it like Boston Irish

19:36

Catholic like guilt that you're

19:38

born with, Because as a little kid, I can remember

19:40

doing chores like sweeping the kitchen

19:43

and being like, I don't think anybody's going

19:45

to see that pile. I'm not

19:47

going to sweep it, you know, And

19:49

in that moment, I'm.

19:50

Not getting credit for it.

19:51

I'm not doing it right. And even

19:54

in that moment, and we're talking, being nine,

19:57

being like I'm a piece

19:59

of shit, Like only a piece

20:01

of shit wouldn't

20:03

do that. And my parents never called me a piece

20:06

of shit. Yes, they grew up

20:08

in Catholic orphanages

20:11

and Catholic schools and

20:14

were abused by nuns,

20:17

nikes and stuff, so maybe

20:19

they couldn't help it pass a little that at all? But

20:21

why did I feel that way? And

20:23

then when I found booze at

20:26

age twelve was the

20:28

first time I got drunk before I figured

20:30

out that you could put something in your body

20:32

that would make everything magic

20:35

and perfect. I

20:37

would steal and like vandalize,

20:41

and then it was like, oh, you can vandalize yourself

20:43

and then everything seems great, so you don't

20:45

have to do things externally. You can just pour booze

20:47

and feel amazing. That

20:50

felt really good. And

20:52

so now still there's

20:55

a part of me that is still like the little kid

20:57

who's like sweep the whole floor.

21:00

You know, it's so weird.

21:02

Like, but how is that selfish

21:04

a little twelve year old?

21:05

So I don't think it is. So

21:08

I guess we're discovering in real

21:10

time here. My answer is not rational,

21:13

right.

21:13

I can't believe that as a human

21:16

being you would have a non rational to

21:19

a traumatic question.

21:21

Oh. I mean another one that would perhaps

21:23

be more rational is anger, you know,

21:26

which is also something I really

21:29

need to start thinking about more because

21:31

I'm the largest person in my house

21:33

by a lot. Until recently, I weighed

21:36

more than the other four people put together.

21:38

And no wonder you want them to assist on you, I

21:40

know, right, just.

21:41

Balances that, like everybody

21:44

in my house is allowed to get angry except

21:46

me because I'm big, and it's scary

21:48

when I get angry, you know. And I don't hit

21:50

people or anything like that, but sure I'll yell

21:53

or swear. And nobody

21:56

likes to get yelled or sworn at by

21:58

somebody who's six foot. They just it's not pleasant,

22:01

right, And so the kind

22:03

of new thing I'm working on is trying

22:06

to like figure out how do you be angry

22:08

if you're giants? Yeah, because I don't want

22:10

to scare my family, but they'll

22:13

be like crazy dervishes and then

22:15

I'm like god damn it and fist on the table, right,

22:18

and then people start crying, you know what

22:20

I mean. And so it's

22:22

sort of a weird one because I just said earlier

22:25

you have to feel emotions as you have

22:27

them. You don't have to act on them and like do

22:29

crazy stuff. But I'm not a bad

22:31

person because I'm angry. Nobody is.

22:34

You know.

22:35

I wonder if there is a field where one

22:37

can go just to experience.

22:40

A real physical field you're yeah.

22:42

Like your anger. Wait, there's a great roomy

22:45

quote that I'm going to butcher out beyond

22:47

ideas of wrongdoing and right doing.

22:50

There is a field. I'll

22:52

meet you there, And I

22:54

really like that, But I actually wish there was a physical

22:56

field where one could go and actually be

22:59

experience orientially angry, because I

23:02

sometimes you don't want to channel it into

23:04

something else. We live in polite society and we don't

23:06

want to frighten our children. But that expression

23:09

of anger. I've

23:11

screamed underwater when

23:13

I was angry when my mom died and

23:17

I buried her ashes at

23:19

the place where I surf, and

23:21

one day I was so sad

23:24

and so angry that she was at the bottom of the

23:26

sea and not sitting on the beach drinking of old

23:28

Crantonic and I went under and I screamed

23:30

so loudly, and it was just about the

23:32

most satisfying thing I

23:34

wonder. I just wonder about the expression of

23:36

it, and I know that it's difficult to do that. And

23:39

then all the idea of using yourself

23:41

as a crucible that we put anger in and turning

23:43

it into something else, I know that's positive

23:46

and.

23:46

It's weird, and I'm thinking about it because now I'm

23:48

five years from my son's death,

23:51

and I really kind of wouldn't chastise

23:54

anybody else who was struggling with anger.

24:03

Love. What person, place,

24:05

or experience most altered your life.

24:08

Let me give an example here. So

24:11

I mentioned my drinking earlier, almost

24:14

twenty two years ago. I drank into

24:16

a blackout and I

24:20

drove my car into the

24:22

Los Angeles Department of Water and Power.

24:24

Where is that?

24:26

There's like satellites all over the place.

24:28

Which one did you drive into the corner of

24:30

Pico and Genesee?

24:32

I think, oh, exactly

24:34

where that is?

24:35

Okay, well, which is why

24:37

I targeted it.

24:38

Probably, but also drinking,

24:40

try and forget that that part carrying

24:43

out.

24:43

No, I drank into a blackout and I don't

24:45

remember the accident, but apparently I did drive into

24:47

that building. No one else was involved, thank

24:49

goodness. But I got badly hurt and was

24:52

arrested and I could either

24:54

go to jail or I could go to rehab

24:57

and then a sober living halfway house. I

24:59

chose re I've been sober living for

25:01

a few months and started

25:04

getting sober, and when I

25:07

had that accident, nobody I knew heard

25:09

about it and was like what they were like, Yeah,

25:12

we knew that was going to happen. So I

25:15

knew I can't drink anymore. You know, my drinking

25:17

not only is it a danger to myself, which

25:19

I had been at peace with, you know, as

25:21

pathetic as that might be, it was, that was okay.

25:24

But when I realized, holy mackerel, if I could

25:26

pass out and kill somebody, I'm behind

25:28

the wheel and I don't even remember getting in the

25:30

car. This has to stop. I don't want to kill

25:32

anybody. I don't want to hurt anybody. And

25:36

so it started to get sober

25:39

and go to twelve Step meetings and stuff.

25:41

And when I was sober for a year, this

25:45

emacated junkie came into

25:47

a meeting and I

25:49

had on a Boston Red Sox cap and this guy goes,

25:51

hey, I'm from Boston, and I

25:53

go, oh cool, And I introduced myself

25:56

and talked to him for a little

25:58

bit. Was just getting off of pills

26:01

and was a mess, you

26:04

know, really close to death. And

26:07

I gave him my phone number. I wrote it

26:09

down a little piece of paper and I was like, well, hey, give me a call

26:11

and we're gonna talk about the Red Sox and

26:13

not taking pills and drinking bourbon.

26:15

And then one year later at the same meeting

26:18

and this muscular, tanned,

26:21

beautiful guy comes up to me

26:23

and is like, hey, Rob, and I

26:25

said hello, and he goes,

26:27

hey, it's Will. Remember we met a year ago.

26:29

And he pointed to the corner where he had been, like, you

26:32

know, curled up in a ball and

26:35

he was like yeah, I was like skinny, a junkie, and you

26:37

were nice to me and gave me a number and I was like, yeah,

26:40

my god, like it was like a different

26:42

person. And so we got to talking

26:44

and he's like, listen, before I went off the rails,

26:47

I worked at this camp for people

26:49

with disabilities, and now they've

26:52

got some spride under my belt. I'm gonna start

26:54

one up here in LA because this souther one

26:56

was in Massachusetts. Would you be interested in

26:58

volunteering at it? And I was like, yeah,

27:01

yeah, it would be and so I

27:04

did so, and I loved it,

27:06

working with kids and adults with Down

27:08

syndrome cerebral palsy, and

27:11

it was really wonderful. I was twenty

27:14

six, twenty seven and

27:17

then summer was rolling around.

27:19

So the mothership that his camp

27:21

had was the satellite of was in Massachusetts,

27:24

and I decided to go to that. And

27:27

this was before Obama

27:29

Care, so I had to get a job that had

27:31

benefits. And so I was working at this terrible internet

27:33

company and I walked into my boss's office

27:35

and I said, I'm quitting, I think,

27:37

because I'm going to go volunteer at this camp

27:40

for a few weeks. And he goes, you know what,

27:42

that would look good if we let

27:45

you do that. That would

27:47

be just be good for tax purposes. We can say like, oh,

27:49

we volunteer, so go do it.

27:51

We'll pay you half your salary while you're doing it, then you

27:53

can come back. And I was like what. It

27:56

wasn't like hey, that's cool. It was like that would look good

27:58

for us, so yet you're not. And I was like,

28:00

oh all right. So I went

28:03

and the day I got there, I met

28:06

the woman who is now my wife.

28:08

She was a counselor. Yeah,

28:11

and the camp was one

28:13

on one, so every counselor

28:15

had one camper because it was heavy duty stuff, you

28:17

know, like a teenager or an adult with cebral

28:19

palsy y. You know, you're lifting them and bathing

28:21

them and stuff. So we each had

28:24

I had an adolescent with tarble palsy, and she

28:26

had a teenager with cerebral palsy. And so

28:28

I just met this beautiful woman who was a school

28:30

teacher and was taking the summer to do this volunteer

28:33

work. And she was in a bikini which

28:35

I recently found in storage when going

28:37

through some old stuff. So

28:39

it was so tiny. So in a sense, it wasn't my fault,

28:42

but she you

28:45

know, so we fell in love.

28:47

Yeah, so this guy. So basically what I'm saying is

28:50

like, the thing was I don't know was that?

28:53

Was it my alcoholism? Was it the accident?

28:55

Was it me putting out my hand in the spirit

28:58

of the twelve Steps and saying like, hey man and

29:00

doing what you're told in that program? You know?

29:03

Was it him not calling you in that year and

29:05

waiting to come back transform

29:08

about exactly?

29:09

And So to

29:12

me, that's a pretty miraculous turn of events.

29:14

I agree.

29:14

So I wind up falling in love with that woman.

29:16

We've been together for years, and then we wind up amazingly

29:19

having a son who gets disabled

29:22

by cancer, brain cancer

29:24

and surgery, and winds up having

29:26

things like feeding tubes, breathing tubes

29:29

and all the things that we learned.

29:32

How to take care of and maintain

29:34

when we met.

29:35

You know, the crazy,

29:37

the magic of that of

29:40

that wonder and that love. Yeah,

29:43

none of this disallows the agony

29:45

of what happened. But I'm so interested

29:47

in how much grace from

29:50

will being near

29:52

death just saying hi to you and you probably

29:55

maybe even because I've done it myself and

29:57

alan on meetings through my life performatively

30:00

oh hey, take my number, and then kind of forgetting

30:03

about that person, re meeting

30:05

him, his life transformed. You

30:08

meeting your wife, you having Henry,

30:11

you both being fully qualified

30:13

in the largeness of both of your hearts,

30:15

and also expertise from having volunteered

30:18

to take care of him.

30:19

Insane. It just goes to show

30:21

you that you cannot know the effect

30:25

of one tiny

30:29

act of kindness can get

30:32

rolling like a snowball and become a

30:35

wonderful avalanche.

30:50

In your life. Can you tell

30:53

me about something that has grown out

30:55

of a personal disaster?

30:58

Well, I feel like I just did

31:01

with the thing of the car

31:04

accident leading to being married

31:06

to my wife and being having some

31:08

skills in our back pockets ready to go to

31:10

care for Henry. So that's one

31:13

disaster. But let me think of another one, maybe

31:15

like a.

31:15

U turn, like in terms of things are

31:17

going along one way and then something happens. It doesn't

31:19

necessarily have to be a disaster. But I think the

31:21

idea of we're attached

31:24

to our life going in one way and something

31:26

then happens that is ostensibly

31:29

not what we've planned. It's challenging to

31:31

talk about this when you've had a child who's

31:34

passed away, because obviously you are

31:36

here functioning, this beautiful

31:38

dad and person and husband, and

31:42

your very being here is the answer to this question.

31:45

But I wonder if there is, if

31:47

there was anything in your career,

31:50

how did you dovetail out of working at the bad

31:52

Internet company into stand

31:54

up and writing and being a comedian.

31:56

Yeah, so I went to Tish

31:59

School of the Arts, where I studied musical

32:01

theater, and thought like, oh, I

32:03

want to do Broadway shows. That's what

32:05

I want to do.

32:06

I kind of want you to do that, so I'd love to

32:09

maybe that can be on the cause.

32:10

But then my final year

32:13

of university I

32:16

found live comedy, and

32:18

this would be in nineteen ninety eight, and

32:20

so as soon as I saw people making

32:23

people laugh with stuff

32:25

that they'd thought up themselves, that

32:28

I was like, oh, I want to smoke that crack.

32:31

Rather than the mediocre joint

32:33

of doing something somebody else wrote that they would

32:35

do even if I weren't there, they would cast somebody

32:37

else in it. I want to do stuff that only I can do. So

32:40

I started doing that. And then after being

32:42

like what they call a U five meaning

32:44

somebody who has under five lines on a

32:46

soap opera, you five. This

32:49

is an AFTRA contract, not even a SAG,

32:51

no control they time together. So it's

32:54

so having like less than five lines on

32:56

a couple episodes of all my children, I

32:59

was like, obviously I

33:01

need to go to Hollywood immediately.

33:03

And so I go to Hollywood

33:06

and you know, like six months later i'd drive into

33:08

the building. So then, as I

33:10

said, I had to get a job that I didn't want

33:12

to do so that I could have health insurance. And

33:15

it was a company that I can't

33:17

use the word invent because they just kind of stole it

33:20

from Friendster. But

33:22

this company came up with my

33:25

Space, and so we

33:28

all kind of got some like clout from being

33:30

in the same building as a guy who

33:32

was like, let's copy Friendster

33:34

and call it MySpace. And so people

33:37

are like, oh wow, like you helped

33:39

invent MySpace and I was like, no, no, I

33:41

didn't. So I kind of like failed upward.

33:43

I wasn't good at it. I hated it. And

33:46

then I would get laid off periodically

33:48

and go to another company do like the internet

33:50

stuff, for like an auto loan company

33:53

or a makeup company. And

33:56

when I got laid off from the third

33:58

company got raided

34:01

or something. One of them later

34:03

wound up dead in a motel

34:05

that had burned like a really

34:07

rich guy's found in a CD motel that it was just

34:10

like exploded. So I'm at

34:12

these companies which are not feeding

34:15

my soul, to say the least. And

34:18

I get laid off from the third one,

34:21

and I was like it's time. I'm

34:25

so, what did you do? I'm a comedian. Oh my god, so I'm

34:27

doing this. This is so funny.

34:29

The motel exploded in flames.

34:30

This is hilario a switch fuld.

34:32

Yeah, I guess this would be like two thousand

34:35

and seven or so, and

34:38

I just said it's now or never. So then

34:40

I just started doing stand up in La in

34:42

La.

34:43

Like all those clubs, just like going.

34:45

Multiple sets every night, driving from club

34:47

to club to the theater to bar to

34:49

thie restaurant where people are like, oh no,

34:52

there's a comedy show happening. And

34:55

I just kept doing that, and so

34:57

I went from having a little bit of money in the bank to

34:59

no money in the bank, to being horrifically

35:01

in debt, to my wife being like, oh

35:03

my god, what have I got myself into?

35:06

And it was funny. I was telling our babysitter

35:08

about this last night. At one point

35:10

my wife was like, Okay, I like Rob,

35:13

He's a nice person, he has

35:16

good jeens. He isn't gonna

35:18

be able to raise a family because so

35:21

what I'm gonna do is I'm

35:23

gonna get pregnant and

35:27

literally probably won't raise the child

35:29

with him, but I'm getting to the point where I

35:31

kind of need to have kids, and so I'll

35:34

just get pregnant because people have done that

35:36

and then and raised the kid on their own. Or maybe

35:39

I'll meet somebody, meet somebody who is employeable.

35:41

Maybe And then weeks

35:44

after she got pregnant, I

35:47

got a couple jobs at once, like

35:49

a job writing for my first

35:51

TV show. Because at this point I'm sending

35:54

packets of jokes to Kimmel

35:56

Conan Chelsea Handler trying

35:59

to be a late writer.

36:00

Who gave you the first gig.

36:02

It was a show called Ridiculousness

36:05

on MTV. It wasn't a late night show. It's a

36:07

show that's still running and dominates MTV.

36:11

Like there's no music, yeah, because it's just

36:13

Ridiculousness, which is like a funny

36:15

home videos show hosted by the skater

36:18

and entrepreneur Rob Dirdick, and

36:21

so it's very funny. I was on the first

36:23

season of this show, Ridiculousness,

36:26

and that changed my life. And shortly after

36:28

that I got a book deal, and

36:31

then I got to make a pilot for Comedy Central

36:34

and it began, yeah,

36:36

like I started to be able to earn a living from

36:39

just jokes and writing and acting and stuff,

36:42

whereas before that I super

36:44

didn't,

36:47

or rather I did upon graduation

36:49

from school. And then when

36:51

I drove into the building, that stopped

36:54

and then just had a what we'll call I

36:56

don't know if I was called a fallow period, because

36:58

it was necessary. I think that's sixty

37:01

the ground was being fertilized.

37:03

That is my podcast.

37:06

And I can't tell you how

37:09

oh, I can't tell you how

37:11

much I'm going to listen to this and remember

37:14

things when I need to be

37:16

reminded of things.

37:18

I can't believe how honest

37:20

I was with you and talked about things that I wouldn't

37:22

normally ever talk about it.

37:24

I'm so glad that you did and were

37:27

and we hug your wife

37:29

from me, I will And have you got a

37:31

fifteen year old?

37:32

Is? No? My oldest is twelve?

37:34

Ah? The twelve year old?

37:35

Yeah?

37:37

Oh yes, I see, because Henry was born in two thousand

37:39

and eight. Yeah, I got it. Well,

37:42

maybe we'll all cross paths in the park. We

37:44

can go and play cricket instead of softball.

37:46

Wow. I'll have to learn how. But if

37:48

you're willing to be patient with me, it's really good.

37:50

I'd bowl under arm to you anyway. Okay, great,

37:52

Thank you. You're an angel.

37:55

You are.

37:55

Thank you.

38:00

Mini Questions is hosted and written by

38:02

Me Mini Driver, Executive

38:04

produced by Me and Aaron Kaufman,

38:07

with production support from Jennifer Bassett,

38:09

Zoe Denkler, and Ali Perry. The

38:12

theme music is also by Me

38:15

and additional music by Aaron Kaufman.

38:18

Special banks to Jim Nikolay Addison,

38:20

O'Day, Henry Driver, Lisa

38:23

Castello, a Nick oppenheim, A,

38:25

Nick Mueller and Annette Wolfe at

38:27

w kPr, Will Pearson, Nicki

38:30

Etoor, Morgan Lavoy and

38:32

man gesh Her Tigadore