0:33

You're listening to the Mindset in Action podcast

0:35

, the place to be to grow and streamline

0:37

your business . I'm your host , donna

0:39

Eade . Let's jump into the show . Money

0:50

talks , but credit has an echo , bob

0:53

Thaves . Welcome back

0:55

to the podcast . Everyone , I'm so

0:58

glad to have you here today . You

1:01

may hear a difference in my voice

1:03

and that is because we're recording

1:05

this . You know , a couple

1:07

of weeks ago , when I wasn't feeling so great

1:09

with my voice . So you've got , last

1:12

week and the week before , two episodes

1:14

that were recorded before I got

1:16

ill , and now you've got one that's being recorded

1:18

on the tail end of it . So

1:20

I apologise , but it's all right , because

1:23

Katrina's going to be doing all the talking today

1:25

. I'm just going to be here absorbing

1:27

all the goodness with you . So , katrina

1:29

, welcome to the podcast . Thank you

1:32

very much . Tell my listeners

1:34

a little bit about who you are and

1:36

what you do .

1:37

Well , so my name's Katrina Ellis

1:39

, often pronounced Katriona because

1:41

it's written in that funny Irish way . I'm

1:44

originally from Ireland , but I've

1:46

been living in the Isle of man for nearly nine

1:48

years now . I am a

1:50

mum to three amazing kiddies

1:52

, who are 15 , 13

1:54

, 11 , and I am

1:57

self-employed , so I have a number of different companies

1:59

. My

2:01

most passionate business is Financial

2:04

Wellness Academy , which is about empowering

2:06

women with their money stuff

2:08

. So often we find women take

2:11

a backseat or totally hands-off

2:13

role in this regard in their lives

2:16

, and it's something I feel is

2:18

a very dangerous thing to do , especially

2:21

when life throws you a curveball and you've no idea what's

2:23

going on in your money stuff

2:26

. So I'm on a mission to empower and

2:28

educate as many women as I can in this space

2:30

, and something I got drawn

2:32

into accidentally as often

2:35

happens in life sometimes and

2:37

it's something that I do with my whole

2:39

heart , based on a lot

2:41

of experience of financial challenges

2:43

, so I'm very well equipped to talk

2:46

to those . Unfortunately , or fortunately

2:48

, so yeah .

2:50

And do you have a education

2:52

in the financial area as

2:54

well ? Did you a qualified accountant

2:57

? I remember that right , you did accountancy

2:59

, not quite no , um , yeah , I

3:01

did .

3:02

My degree was in commerce , uh , and

3:04

I majored in management and marketing . I

3:06

worked in the financial services industry then

3:08

for over 10 years and

3:10

retired out of that after after becoming a

3:12

mum and um , whilst in

3:14

that , I did a number of qualifications financial

3:17

service diploma . I'm a qualified financial

3:19

advisor and then more recently

3:21

I qualified as a fellow in

3:23

the National Association of Estate Agents

3:25

More recently

3:27

when I got into property in a bigger way . So lots

3:30

of ticks on that front and it's something

3:32

I live and breathe . I

3:34

really enjoy numbers , not from

3:36

an accountant's perspective , but more from my

3:39

numbers , the numbers that are important to me and my

3:41

family . Um , so , yeah , that's

3:43

my , my background . I don't operate

3:45

in the regulated space , so I don't offer

3:47

products and services . Um , more in the space

3:49

of education and empowerment , because

3:52

I feel that's really where there's a huge gap

3:54

, um , in terms of our

3:56

own upbringings . Um , largelygely

3:58

, there's not many people who have those kinds of conversations with

4:00

their caregivers , unfortunately

4:02

, and it's largely not something that's discussed

4:05

in school with our children . So we've got a huge knowledge

4:07

gap around it , and I'm one of many

4:09

women and people in the world

4:12

addressing that because I think it's something

4:14

that really it's a life skill that

4:16

we all should have some level of

4:18

knowledge on to be able to get the most out

4:20

of our lives and to minimize the stress and anxiety

4:22

that exists around that , unfortunately

4:25

, yeah .

4:25

I completely agree and I think I

4:28

the reason I sort of brought up your

4:30

background there is because I think it's so interesting

4:32

when you have somebody who has got

4:35

the sort of academic knowledge

4:37

to back up their personal

4:40

journey . So I'll

4:43

tell you . I'll tell you a little story . So I used

4:45

to work for a bank , one of the well-known high

4:47

street banks , and I was there for an entire

4:49

month and I was actually fast-tracked

4:52

. They wanted me to be somebody

4:54

that sort of dealt with people in the queue so get

4:56

me out from behind the counter . They could see promise

4:59

in me and everything was going swimmingly

5:01

well and I'd gone to Peterborough for

5:03

a two day training

5:05

and I actually got called back by my manager

5:08

and they let me go because

5:11

I had three things that popped up on my credit

5:13

report and they said we

5:15

can't have somebody advising people on their

5:17

finances when you've got stuff on your credit

5:19

report . Now it wasn't from my manager

5:21

. The branch was actually really supportive of

5:23

me and wanted to keep me , but it was head office

5:26

that had kind of dictated this and

5:28

I'd explained it away . I mean , you know a little

5:30

bit of backstory for me . I was

5:32

a single mum who was on

5:34

and off benefits and if you've been

5:36

on and off benefits at any point in your

5:38

life , you know the benefit system isn't

5:41

very quick to implement things

5:43

. So I would get into a little bit of debt there

5:45

. I'd get myself sorted , I'd get myself a job

5:47

, I'd go and start work . Then my

5:49

benefits would stop and you know , all of

5:51

that led to me being in a little bit of debt

5:53

here and there with different things , and

5:55

the three things that were on my report were

5:58

all things that were in the past . Everything

6:00

was good now and now I had a

6:02

job that I could see a good

6:04

career in . I could see me going far

6:06

in it . They could see me going far in it . I thought

6:08

I'm sorted and then they whipped it out

6:11

from underneath me and I was back to square one

6:13

and I was like how is anybody ever supposed

6:15

to get on top when

6:17

people are reacting like that ? So I

6:19

like the fact that we now have this

6:21

world where we

6:23

don't have to just go to banks for

6:25

this information . There are people out there

6:28

that can provide independent

6:30

information that's not skewed to certain

6:32

products but is more focused on

6:34

the people and what they need

6:37

and their situation . And

6:39

I'm just like I . Just I'm

6:42

glad you exist , because you know that actually

6:44

broke my heart , because I would

6:46

always wanted to work for one of the other

6:48

banks , actually , and I never quite

6:50

got through their system of you

6:53

know how they test people . I never

6:55

really got through all their interview systems

6:58

, but I'd got this one and I was like this

7:00

is what I wanted to . Because I love numbers too , this

7:02

is what I want to do , this is going to be great , and then

7:04

to have it taken away from me , I was just

7:06

like gutted , gutted

7:09

so . But I think it's important for

7:11

people to have been through financial hardships

7:13

when they're going to tell somebody you

7:16

know this is what I think would

7:18

be good , or this is why

7:20

I do what I do , or you're doing that education

7:22

bit . If you've never financially

7:24

suffered in your life , how on earth can you empathize

7:27

or understand where somebody who's in the sort

7:29

of position I was in you know what

7:31

they're going through and how they're trying to manage

7:33

. So just a little story .

7:36

Yeah'm very relevant because I think

7:38

you know who explains to that

7:40

you . Decisions that you make in your earlier

7:42

life will impact the outcome of certain

7:44

parts of your path later down . Like nobody

7:47

, the vast majority of people don't even know that unless

7:49

you've actually been through it . So you know

7:51

the impact of that . You know how long it takes for

7:53

something like that to to um get

7:55

rid of it , and sometimes people find themselves with records

7:58

that are not even their

8:00

fault . Sometimes it's total case

8:03

of mistaken identity

8:05

. There's another position at the moment with an

8:07

amazing young woman who

8:09

is very vocal

8:11

about the fact that she was in

8:13

a domestic , abusive domestic position

8:16

and at

8:18

the time she was working for a credit a

8:20

well-known high street bank also

8:22

. But she decided

8:25

this is more recent years to challenge

8:27

it and she took it all the way to the top and

8:30

her work is now being recognized . So some

8:32

of the banks across the board and I think it's going

8:34

as far as Europe wide she's behind

8:36

some of the changes that they're bringing in to make

8:38

changes to stuff like that . So people

8:41

who , through no fault of their own , are

8:43

doing the best they can with the circumstances . They're

8:45

in often very difficult circumstances

8:48

and they are tarnished

8:50

from a credit perspective , going forward trying to get

8:52

a mortgage , a card , whatever it is , because

8:55

of something that happened in their past that was outside

8:57

their control . And you know we

8:59

need to have a little bit more understanding

9:01

from our financial institutions about that

9:03

. And I totally agree with you how on earth

9:05

can you have any kind

9:07

of meaningful conversation with a customer

9:10

if you've never actually had any experience

9:12

? So I mean it was their loss , you

9:14

know , to have lost somebody who had that level

9:16

of understanding , because how many of their customers come through

9:18

the door ? Because that's what really gives me

9:20

my edge , I find , with the level of experience

9:23

that I've had with financial challenges , I can

9:25

genuinely talk heart to heart

9:27

with my own experience as

9:29

to how difficult that is , and particularly

9:31

the emotional bit , because the number stuff

9:33

is relatively straightforward in

9:36

most cases , but the emotion

9:38

that goes behind it is really damn

9:40

tough , and sometimes it's difficult to even put

9:42

words to the shame that we feel around

9:44

money , the embarrassment

9:46

, the stupidity when we've

9:48

made decisions and I'm speaking personally here

9:51

that we think what the hell

9:53

was I thinking ? Why did I do that , why did

9:55

I not see that ? And we beat ourselves up

9:57

. And there's so much emotion around that

9:59

and you can't talk to that authentically

10:03

unless you've been through it , so I think that

10:05

was a massive loss on their part , but you know

10:07

, I guess a huge life lesson for

10:09

you on how to navigate it . So

10:11

good for you , yeah absolutely so

10:14

.

10:14

Let's jump in to the topic of financial

10:16

wellness for our listeners

10:19

. So we are talking about business

10:21

women here . We also have

10:23

some businessmen that listen to the podcast

10:25

, so shout out to you guys . I think financial

10:28

wellness is something that we all need to have an understanding

10:30

of and I think , especially when we come

10:32

into the business realm where we're self-employed

10:35

, everything shifts a little bit

10:37

. You know , we haven't got an , an employer , we haven't got somebody

10:39

dealing with the tax for us , the national insurance

10:41

, the pensions , all of that , it all falls on

10:43

us and I think often things slip through

10:45

the cracks because we just don't know what we don't

10:47

know . So , even if we've got

10:50

guys listening , this is completely relevant

10:52

to you , although Katrina

10:54

tends to work with women . I think

10:57

it's all relevant . So , katrina

10:59

, where do we even start with our

11:01

financial wellness ? What ? What

11:03

are the important starting points that we need

11:05

to sort of consider ?

11:08

For me , the single

11:10

most important piece is understanding

11:13

, first of all , what that even means to you

11:15

, because often I use those words and people

11:17

look at me blankly as well . What exactly do you mean

11:19

and what means

11:21

? What financial wellness means to me may

11:24

be very different to what it means to you

11:26

For a large . For personally

11:28

, and for the vast majority of women

11:30

I work with . It means two simple words

11:32

. It means safety and security , and whatever

11:35

safety and security looks like for them

11:37

, that's what it is . So it might look

11:39

like having making sure

11:41

I've got , they've got an emergency fund in

11:43

place , making sure that they've got a

11:45

little pot that covers all those ad hoc expenses

11:47

that pop up throughout the year that

11:50

when we don't have provision for them , they

11:52

really can skew our monthly finances

11:54

. It means that you've got

11:56

something in place for your retirement

11:58

. It means that if you've got children , that you've

12:00

got some sort of provision for them , if that's

12:02

something that you want to provide for . It means maybe

12:05

for some people , they want to get rid of their mortgage . It

12:07

means for other people actually getting a mortgage

12:09

and having a home and stopping renting . So

12:11

it's very individual and I think , the most

12:14

important thing up front , when you're

12:16

dipping your toe into this , is to actually understand

12:18

well , what does this even look like for

12:20

me ? Because , for the vast majority of us , we

12:23

career from one day to another and

12:25

we never take some time out to actually sit

12:27

down and think well , what do I want ? Because

12:30

? And when we don't do that , what I found

12:32

is we end up somewhere entirely different

12:35

to what we intended , and

12:37

decisions along that path can be

12:39

very difficult , Whereas when we take some

12:41

time out and by time out I mean it

12:44

could be as simple as 10

12:46

, 15 minutes actually scribbling on a page , what

12:48

with my ideal level of

12:50

financial wellness what would get that

12:52

involve ? Um , so , it's not

12:54

a case of , you know , scratching your head and spending days

12:57

or hours and weeks on this . It's . It's simple

12:59

, and that's what I encourage most people

13:01

to do is to take some time out , even if you're on

13:03

out walking the dog , if you're

13:06

doing a little meditation , if you've got some down

13:08

time in the office , whatever that looks like

13:10

to you , and just getting clear on

13:12

. What does that mean to

13:14

me ? What would I like in place ? You know , if

13:16

you're thinking of it from a business perspective , would

13:19

it be ? Would it involve bringing

13:21

more people on board , maybe outsourcing

13:23

some of the tasks that you really don't like . So maybe

13:25

some of that bookkeeping stuff that you get

13:27

yourself in a tangle about . Is it having

13:30

some kind of virtual finance director on board

13:32

, which now is a position available and

13:34

something I see a number of people doing which

13:37

brings great value to many businesses ? It

13:39

doesn't . It means that you don't need to have

13:41

somebody on the books permanently . You

13:43

can contract them for a few hours

13:45

a month , a week , whatever it is you need

13:47

, and you've got somebody qualified actually

13:49

watching what's going on to give you a steer

13:52

, somebody

13:56

watching the targets that you've set and whether you land them or not . So it might

13:58

be bringing some admin support in place . It might be getting a qualified bookkeeper accountant

14:01

in place . Whatever it is for

14:03

your business , for you , it's just

14:05

about taking the time out to give

14:07

thought as to what that is , and

14:09

when you have that clarity , I

14:12

have found for myself and for clients

14:14

is the path that unfurls from

14:16

there on out is a lot easier

14:18

to navigate because you know where you're going , you know

14:20

what your your um due

14:22

north is , your north star , etc . And

14:25

you can navigate the bumps

14:27

easier because you've got your eye on what , where it is

14:29

, you're going for and yeah , life

14:31

becomes a lot easier when it comes to money , and

14:33

that's been my experience , so

14:36

true and I think it's so important that we work

14:38

out what it is that financial

14:41

wellness means to us , and I think we've

14:43

spoken a lot on this podcast about your

14:45

why and the things that you

14:47

do .

14:48

Why you do them ? Because these and

14:50

it is this intrinsic understanding

14:52

of you as a human and what's important

14:55

to you that is going to show you

14:57

these answers , like it's all within

14:59

us in that respect , not to get too

15:01

woo , but you know , when it comes to financial

15:04

wellness , for what's financial wellness

15:06

to me , it's going to be completely different to

15:08

what it is for you . It's going to be completely

15:10

different to what it is for the listeners

15:12

and I think the examples that you

15:14

gave were very on point

15:16

, especially for women . I think there

15:19

is that common thread of the safety and

15:21

security and I know for me , given

15:23

my history , that is

15:25

a big one for me is , you

15:28

know , when I started my last

15:30

job for me , that gave

15:32

me this sense of security

15:35

. I was like I was an independent woman

15:37

. I didn't have to rely on anybody else

15:39

, I wasn't relying on the government for help , I

15:41

was doing it all myself and I got myself

15:43

in a really good position . And one

15:45

of the books I always , always rave

15:48

about when it comes to money is Ramit

15:50

Sethi's book I Will Teach you To Be Rich

15:52

. I read that book in 2014

15:55

. I got myself out of five grand's worth of debt

15:57

. I bought the first car . That was my

15:59

choice of car . I set a budget

16:01

. I knew how much I wanted to borrow . I knew how quickly

16:04

I wanted to pay it off . I did it all myself

16:06

and I tell you something it just the

16:08

empowerment that I got

16:11

from being able to do that and being able to

16:13

look after my daughter and do all the things that

16:15

I wanted to do , was amazing

16:17

. And so when you get it right , it

16:20

just , it just works

16:22

. And it's so amazing to have that

16:24

. And I was very clear with my intentions and

16:27

you know , we have to educate

16:29

ourselves because I think it's one of those things

16:31

where you don't know the things that you don't know

16:33

. And for me , I just didn't

16:35

really have . I'd always kind of

16:37

budgeted and stuff and I'd been through debt

16:40

management when my daughter was very , very young

16:42

and all of that jazz . So they talked

16:44

about budgets and stuff , but when it comes to reality

16:47

, of you actually implementing things with your

16:49

money , going forward , like looking

16:52

ahead , whereas I was like reactive

16:54

there , I had a debt I needed to pay off

16:56

. So we were creating a budget so I could pay off my debt

16:59

. This was creating a budget so that I could

17:01

save and plan and

17:03

make a future , and it was

17:05

just something different in doing it that way

17:07

, and I think we need

17:09

to take on that role of being

17:11

sponges when it comes to financial

17:13

wellness . I think it's something that we don't talk enough about

17:16

. So I'm really glad we're having this conversation . So

17:18

, as business owners , it can be really difficult

17:20

to kind of balance that cash flow , especially

17:23

in the beginning days where you're not

17:25

really sure where the money's coming from . And that's

17:27

something again , that that employee

17:29

mindset versus being the business owner

17:31

with the employee . You know you go to work 40

17:33

hours a week , you get a set amount of money

17:35

, you can go to work 40 hours a week for a business

17:38

owner and you could come out with nothing at the end of

17:40

the week . So what should we look be looking

17:42

at when we're looking at our income

17:44

, so that we don't get ourselves

17:46

into the shit yeah

17:49

, it's um , and you know what it's .

17:51

It's a conversation I've had several

17:54

times in the last few weeks and it's something

17:56

I started to realize myself and

17:59

it about to me and

18:01

when I mooted first I was like , oh

18:03

, I'm not sure you want to say that . And then

18:05

I thought actually I think I really

18:07

should say that . And it's about

18:10

when you're starting out in business and

18:12

even when you're not starting out , even when you're pretty well established

18:14

, it can be really hairy

18:17

and scary and it's like a white knuckle

18:19

ride at times . And the variability

18:21

in income is scary . Even

18:23

if you've got an emergency pot aside or

18:25

you've got a pot that you know is going to

18:27

cover your annual expenses and you know you're

18:29

going to be OK , you have no certainty

18:32

in in self-employment as

18:34

to when that next income is going to land . And

18:37

something that I've been playing with myself

18:39

, um , for the last couple of years

18:41

because of that huge variability just

18:43

it really freaked me out was

18:45

diversifying and diversifying

18:48

an income . So I'm big , big um

18:50

supporter of diversification when it

18:52

comes to assets and I've done that for a long

18:54

time and it's always served

18:56

me well , and especially when the

18:58

proverbial hits . And then I started

19:00

to realize hang on a second if you

19:03

did the same , applied the same concept to

19:05

your business and had different streams of income

19:07

and by different streams of income I

19:09

mean both within your business so that if

19:12

you say are a service provider

19:14

and you're providing a service to a particular

19:16

client , I would suggest

19:18

looking at having different products and services

19:21

that spread to a wider net of people

19:23

, so that you have different things , because something might

19:25

be flavor of the month and go , you know amazing

19:27

, great guns , and then it drops right off

19:29

, so that if you have different offerings

19:32

to different clients , that's one way , but

19:34

separate from that is I

19:36

think there's a huge case to be made

19:38

in self-employment with

19:41

the to counteract the variability in income

19:43

, for having that source

19:46

of income that is steady , that

19:48

allows you to put your oxygen mask on and

19:50

allows you to show up in your business

19:52

that you're really passionate about in a way that

19:54

doesn't bring lack and scarcity

19:57

and fear to it . And

19:59

I've come to this conclusion because I've experienced it

20:01

myself . So I am running

20:03

financial wellness academy . The variability in

20:05

income is absolutely massive . Sometimes

20:07

there's more going out than there's coming in , and I think it's

20:09

really important to be honest and open about this and

20:12

I came across that first and I thought I'm

20:15

not sure you want to share that and I thought , well , no , I really

20:17

need to share this . And then that got me

20:19

thinking over the last while OK , well , what

20:22

do you do to ? What options are

20:24

available to you to create

20:26

an income that is regular ? So I looked at

20:28

OK , well , what's my , my skill set , what else can I turn my

20:30

hand to ? And , most importantly

20:33

, most valuably , what I did was I

20:35

asked , in my immediate circle of contacts

20:38

, individuals who I

20:40

I knew were well connected , who could potentially

20:42

have options for me that would give me that

20:44

, and , uh , one option that

20:46

came out . Several things emerged and

20:48

the one that has been the . The work that

20:50

has worked best is mentoring accountancy students

20:52

. So I've got a background , I've got five years of accountancy

20:55

. I didn't qualify as an accountant , I don't need to

20:57

for this role and I support

20:59

and mentor those students . Now I

21:01

spent my morning with three different students and

21:03

it's a joy to do . It's not my passion

21:05

, but I really enjoy it . It pays

21:07

me a regular income and

21:09

, based on the of students I have , and

21:12

it allows me to know month to month that

21:14

I've got X amount coming in and

21:16

things will be OK , and the more I diversify

21:18

. That . And also I mentioned I live

21:21

in the Allemagne , so we've got TT on at the moment , which

21:23

is a huge internationally known

21:25

bike race

21:27

, and I've got an Airbnb . So

21:29

part of my diversification was using

21:32

some of the income that I have to refurbish

21:34

a garage and a storeroom that was redundant

21:37

, add value to my house and

21:39

also create a way to generate

21:42

income and rent that out . So that's

21:44

another way of doing it . I didn't do those all

21:46

overnight , as I was thinking

21:48

about what financial wellness meant for me . Diversification

21:51

of income was part of that because I thought putting

21:53

all my eggs in one basket even if it's an amazing

21:55

basket that can get upturned

21:57

at any point and the

21:59

better diversified I am in income , the

22:01

better that that makes me feel . So I've

22:04

got a number of little things like that that I do

22:06

, but I

22:08

did come to that with . I

22:10

tussled with a lot of emotions around that because I

22:12

thought you know how can I teach financial

22:14

wellness if I am not

22:16

sure on a daily basis ? But I'm not . I don't

22:18

purport to be an amazing business person . I'm

22:21

really good at financial wellness , but when

22:23

it comes to running a business . It's a whole different

22:25

skill set and it's one that can take some

22:27

time , especially when you're one man bound to

22:29

, to really get the feel for

22:31

time

22:34

, especially when you're one man bound to um to really get the feel for . But it allows me putting

22:36

my having those streams of income allows me to have my oxygen mask on and to show up

22:38

to financial wellness , academy work with

22:40

a sense of abundance and a sense

22:42

of I'm okay and I'm living

22:45

. What I'm teaching what I'm living , um

22:47

, because there's nothing worse than somebody saying , oh

22:49

yeah , no , everything it's all rosy , no issues

22:51

, whatever . I'm no , there are

22:53

issues and I have to face them as they arise

22:56

and you know that's how we roll . So

22:58

I think that's something really important to talk to

23:00

people about . Is you're not

23:02

a failure at your business if you

23:04

have to look elsewhere . But

23:15

I do think when you go to do that , you put boundaries in place to say you know I'm going to give it 10 hours a week and the rest of the time

23:17

I'm going to give to you know what I'm really passionate about . That , to me , is not failure . That to me , is about survival and , personally , giving

23:19

me that feeling of safety and security . So I think

23:21

we need to start having that conversation more and more , and

23:23

I've had it numerous times in the last few weeks

23:26

and it has really opened my eyes

23:28

as to the number of people who feel

23:30

similarly but feel that actually doing

23:32

that means they failed . And I'm

23:35

thinking absolutely no , no , it doesn't . It

23:37

means you show up to your business . You're passionate

23:39

about leaving scarcity and lack

23:41

out of the equation , because when you're trying to

23:43

run a business and you have that feeling running

23:45

the show underneath , go , pick that

23:48

up and that comes across and then

23:50

that affects your sales if you're coming from that

23:52

place . And I've experienced this myself personally

23:54

and I've had a whole different experience

23:57

when I've taken care of that and

23:59

then shown up to it in a way that goes

24:01

yeah , ok , you know , this is

24:03

the way it is . I'm so passionate about

24:05

what I do , what I teach , what I educate

24:07

on , but I'm doing it in

24:09

a way that works for me and takes my safety and

24:11

security boxes . So I think that that's

24:13

one that is worth giving some

24:15

thought about for anybody listening

24:17

in who feels that they may be in

24:19

that category where there's more coming

24:21

out and it's going in and it's a source

24:23

of stress .

24:24

Yeah , I completely agree and I think

24:27

what you said there is so , so important

24:29

, and so I'm going to say it again you are

24:31

not a failure in your business

24:33

if you have to diversify your

24:35

income streams . And if you are

24:37

an OG listener to this podcast

24:40

, you know I mean OG , ie

24:42

. You remember when it was called the Society of

24:44

Professional Wedding Vendors podcast Back

24:47

then , when we were in an absolute

24:49

dire situation

24:51

with the wedding industry during

24:53

COVID , one of the things that I spoke

24:55

about a lot was diversifying

24:58

your income stream so that we never ended up in

25:00

that place again where we were

25:02

. You know , our entire financial

25:04

thing was cut off . And I think

25:06

it's important because I know that there are still

25:08

wedding vendors that listen to this show and

25:11

, you know , just business owners in general

25:13

. Just because COVID

25:15

is over technically like the

25:18

big , you know stuff is over

25:20

it doesn't mean that something like that won't

25:22

happen again , whether that's on a global

25:24

scale or on a personal scale

25:27

. Something happens that you have to pause

25:29

your business or something happens

25:32

, you know , you just don't know what's going to happen

25:34

. So , by having that , diversification

25:36

that is outside your

25:39

business as well as diversification

25:41

within your business is really

25:43

, really important for that balance

25:46

, for us to be able to to breathe

25:48

. And I really want to sort of say

25:50

thank you to you , katrina

25:52

, because we had a conversation and I was

25:54

trying I've just been trying to find when

25:57

we actually first spoke and I think

25:59

I think it was on the 2nd of May

26:01

. I'm not sure I can't find a one-to-one

26:04

where it sort of says your name , but

26:07

we had a conversation and I was

26:09

talking to you about being in

26:11

that situation where I was struggling with

26:13

the , you know , lack of income

26:16

generation coming in on a consistent

26:18

basis and it was worrying

26:20

me . And we had this conversation

26:22

about diversifying and

26:25

through that it's led to a few conversations

26:28

where things are looking promising

26:30

. So I want to thank you for that

26:32

and I want to say to people it

26:34

works and you know , just because

26:36

you're doing something for

26:38

somebody else doesn't make your business

26:41

any less important , doesn't make it that you're

26:43

failing in any way . It's protecting

26:46

yourself for those lean times and

26:48

, by having something that can be consistent

26:51

outside of your business

26:53

, actually relieves some of

26:55

that stress and pressure which allows

26:58

you to come at your business

27:00

from a more serving perspective

27:02

rather than that desperation which

27:04

I think we don't always feel that it's showing

27:07

and it doesn't always show , but it is

27:09

an internal thing . When you know

27:11

that , oh my God , I haven't got

27:13

anything coming in this month , what am I going to do

27:15

? It kind of does seep out

27:18

, even if you don't realize it . It's a completely

27:20

unconscious , subliminal thing , I think . But

27:22

when you can come at it from it doesn't matter

27:24

, because I've got this stable income

27:27

, I've got these other pots

27:29

where I'm getting money in from here , there

27:31

and everywhere . So what happens

27:33

right here isn't the be all and

27:35

end all . You can come at it from that place

27:37

of passion and serving the

27:39

thing that you want to be doing . So

27:41

I really appreciate that

27:44

viewpoint and I

27:46

think it's really important to talk about

27:48

it , to

27:54

talk about it . So , as we're kind of rounding up now , I want to look at what are

27:56

the top three things that you wish that business owners understood

27:59

about financial wellness .

28:03

I wish they understood first of all , go back

28:06

to my first point what it is , what it

28:08

means for them . Um , because when I

28:10

, when they , when it's asked of

28:12

me , I show a picture , and to me it's

28:14

a picture that is , um

28:16

, of the end of the road where I live . It's beautiful

28:18

, the harbour , um , we live by the sea and

28:21

that is almost the epitome of

28:23

financial wellness to me . It means my kids and

28:25

I can walk to the beach and that encompasses

28:28

it , and I have the freedom with my work

28:30

to do that on whatever

28:32

day I like . I decide what goes

28:34

in my diary . So I think what financial wellness looks

28:36

like , feels like , what involves for

28:38

you . What are the other

28:40

things that I wish ? I wish that

28:43

we could just almost

28:45

vacuum pack the

28:47

emotions , the negative emotions , around

28:49

money and how

28:52

taboo it can be , and just

28:54

talk about anything , because we

28:56

have this concept in the east of the rent tent and

28:59

when a woman is menstruating , she comes into

29:01

that tent and she is nourished

29:03

and nurtured and looked after , and I

29:05

think we need the equivalent of a money tent where we

29:07

go when we've got stuff going on and

29:10

we just talk it out , and because you know

29:12

when you share a problem , especially

29:15

amongst women there is such

29:17

. There's an inner thing , a piece

29:19

for every woman you want to connect , you want

29:21

to support , you want to nurture . It's just that

29:23

thing that's inbuilt in you . And if

29:25

more of us shared what's going on

29:27

, because I know earlier this year when I was really

29:30

struggling at a massive financial loss , it

29:33

was naming what was going on

29:35

, asking for help . Sometimes it wasn't

29:37

even asking , it was just saying what was going on and the

29:39

help just showed up . It took

29:41

so much of the weight off my

29:43

shoulders and we need to bring more

29:45

conversation around this , because so many of us are struggling

29:48

right now and the struggle becomes

29:50

so much easier to bear when

29:52

we put a name to it . So , just

29:54

, you know , take the take the um

29:57

cloak and dagger off the shame

29:59

, the embarrassment , the stupidity , whatever

30:01

. It is those emotions that hold so much

30:03

power over us

30:05

sometimes . And then I think the last

30:07

thing really , I suppose , is I

30:10

wish that we'd have more of these conversations

30:13

with other generations , because

30:15

without us having

30:17

these kind of conversations with

30:19

our you know , the younger

30:21

people in our lives , whether they're our own kids or others

30:24

, nothing's going to change . We're going to

30:26

continue this through

30:28

the generations and we will continue

30:31

to put a lid on stuff that's difficult and

30:33

it's a bit like the whole you know Me

30:35

Too movement , mental health etc . Anything

30:37

that we want to take stigma away

30:39

from , we need to start discussing openly

30:42

, and people still are very uncomfortable

30:44

about discussing money matters . So

30:46

we can't really enact any major

30:49

change until we start living

30:51

it ourselves and then having those conversations

30:53

openly with others , especially

30:56

the younger people in our lives , because our younger people

30:58

don't often have the hangups we have , and

31:00

I see this with my kids . It was an unintentional

31:03

outcome of me working on this myself

31:05

. I hear them having having

31:08

conversations with their friends going

31:10

is it a need or is it a want ? And

31:12

you know , if it's a , if it's a need , maybe your parents

31:14

might sort , and if it's a want , well , you know

31:16

, here's some ideas as to how you can generate

31:18

the cash and I'm like , wow , they're

31:21

just absorbing what the conversations we

31:23

have and then they're playing it forward . I'm like , yes

31:25

, this is how you know things change

31:27

and I'm sure that probably some parents swearing

31:29

me um because of the questions

31:32

that I've pushed forward . But , like , I see the difference

31:34

that's making with my children and they don't

31:36

have the hang-ups I had , um . So

31:38

I think that's really important to start changing the conversations

31:41

and have those conversations openly around the

31:43

table in our homes with our friends , with

31:45

our loved ones , and start changing the needle

31:47

on this , because otherwise nothing's going to change . We're just

31:49

going to keep spinning the wheels in it awesome

31:52

, that's so good .

31:53

I'm oh just so much goodness

31:55

in that and I completely agree with

31:57

having the conversations about it . I think it is

31:59

something that is still very taboo and

32:02

it needs to not be as taboo

32:04

because you know , know , if I had , you

32:07

know , and we didn't know each other really

32:09

before that conversation that we had

32:11

, we'd met on a networking meeting

32:13

, we had a one to one , and there I was telling

32:15

you my financial issues , like you

32:17

know , this sort of unheard of , but if

32:20

I hadn't have said that , you wouldn't have

32:22

been able to come back to me with some ideas

32:24

and I wouldn't be able to be in a completely different

32:26

situation right now , feeling

32:28

a lot calmer and a lot more , you

32:30

know , okay with where I am

32:32

than I was then . I mean , I don't

32:34

know how I would have felt . You know this

32:36

is nearly a month later and you know there's

32:39

not a lot that's particularly changed

32:42

within my business that I could sort of

32:44

see a light at the end of the tunnel or anything

32:46

. So . So if I hadn't have been had

32:48

that conversation and been open with you , then

32:51

I wouldn't have been able to put these other things in

32:53

place that have kind of lightened the load a little

32:55

bit . So I think that is a real testament it's

32:57

that simple , but there's not this

32:59

.

32:59

You know a lot of people that and that was one thing that

33:02

I mentioned earlier when you were

33:04

making a point is that there's so much

33:06

out there there's a bit of snobbery around it . I think

33:08

that it's oh , it's so complex

33:11

and we really need somebody super qualified

33:13

at actuarial levels

33:16

to figure this out for us

33:18

. And I had a conversation as recently as yesterday about

33:20

this and I'm like , no , a

33:22

lot of this . Yes , there are , you know , there can

33:24

be more complex points to consider , like taxation

33:27

and all that kind of stuff , but to get

33:29

some of the really basic pieces in

33:31

place . Often it's just a conversation , like

33:33

you and I had , and having the courage

33:35

to speak it and , as the

33:37

listener , having making sure there's

33:39

no judgment around it , because when we start judging

33:42

others on their money stuff , the position that

33:44

they're in , then we we lose that trust . So we have

33:46

to um come to it from a place

33:48

of look , we've , we've all been

33:50

there , especially if you've been there , you know , with

33:52

with um , with knobs on

33:54

, like I have in terms of the financial challenges , you

33:57

bring understanding to it and if I've

33:59

never walked in your shoes , I cannot

34:01

for a second um , put any

34:03

judgment behind anything that you share or anybody

34:06

shares . So we have to bring that listening ear

34:08

. If we've got family or friends who are coming

34:10

to us with these kind of challenges

34:12

, we can't . We have to leave judgment

34:14

outside the door and just bring our

34:16

best supportive self to the , and

34:18

sometimes all that person needs who's

34:20

struggling is just an ear and sometime

34:22

an idea pops . But the

34:25

the most important point I'm trying to make here is that this

34:27

is not rocket science , a lot of it . And

34:29

we have within us absolutely

34:32

the capability ourselves and

34:34

with our circle , to resolve this . And

34:36

and like there is merit in saying that

34:38

old saying a problem shared is a problem half

34:40

. Because it is like it might

34:42

not have been me who might have been able to join the dots for

34:44

you , but it was somebody else I could connect you with

34:47

who could potentially give you something that would

34:49

solve a big part of that problem for you . And

34:51

had you not shared it and the idea dropped

34:54

in for me , you know who knows where I would be

34:56

. And that conversation for me was the

34:58

first time I had with you . I didn't want to say it was

35:00

with you for confidentiality

35:02

reasons , but I've had that conversation

35:04

many , many times times since , and I kind of think

35:06

we don't talk about it , and I knew

35:08

when I shared it with you , I did feel

35:11

some of that shame and I thought , seriously , katrina

35:13

, you have to get over this , because you know

35:15

you can't talk to it unless you get over

35:17

it yourself and and because of our

35:19

conversation I've said that many

35:21

times since and I really think there's something

35:23

in that that we need to start shining . And I've actually

35:25

suggested to a large community I'm in that

35:28

we do a webinar on it because there are too

35:30

many people suffering on this thing , thinking

35:32

that they're failing because they're not

35:34

making it or they don't have like five figure

35:36

, six figure months , whatever , and

35:38

they think they're they're failing . So you know

35:40

, I think it's really important for mental health and it's

35:42

the number one reason mental health is

35:45

financial challenges . So

35:50

if we don't talk about this , then that's going to continue to cause us issues

35:52

. How many suicides are because of money reasons ? Like ? We have to start um changing

35:54

our conversation around this absolutely

35:56

.

35:56

it is so , so important

35:59

. And just that what you said there about

36:01

you know like taking the shame

36:03

away from it and not judging , because

36:05

you haven't been in somebody else's shoes

36:08

so you can't possibly understand

36:10

how they got to

36:12

where they are . So , just taking

36:14

it that this is where they are , what can I do

36:17

to help ? Is there anything I can do to

36:19

help is a much better way of looking at

36:21

it than thinking , gosh , well , I would never have done that

36:23

because you just don't know what you would have done

36:25

in that situation . So really

36:27

fantastic conversation . Absolutely

36:30

loved having you on the

36:32

show to talk about this . Where can

36:34

people find out more about you ? Where can they connect

36:36

with you ? Where do you hang ?

36:37

out For

36:40

business owners . I'm on LinkedIn so you can connect

36:42

with me on LinkedIn . Katrina Ellis

36:44

, my website is financialwellnessacademycouk

36:47

. I'm on YouTube . Financial Wellness

36:49

Academy has a weekly vlog , so I do little short

36:51

snippets on various topics so

36:53

you can connect with me on any of those

36:55

avenues . And if

36:57

you want to have a complimentary financial

37:00

wellness clarity call , just drop me a message on

37:02

any of those platforms and we can set that up

37:04

and have a non-judgmental , open

37:06

, honest chat brilliant .

37:08

I shall put all those links in the show notes for

37:10

you guys now before we hop off . Um

37:12

, I do have my little speed

37:15

round that doesn't end up being so speedy

37:17

if I get my voice involved

37:19

in it , but I'll try not to , because you know I'm trying

37:22

to protect the voice right now , so maybe

37:24

it'll go a bit quicker . I've got a few questions that

37:26

I'd like to ask you , if that's all right . So

37:29

what is the book that has made the biggest

37:31

impact on your life so far ?

37:34

oh , um , most recently

37:36

I would say it's Untamed by Glennon

37:38

Doyle .

37:39

I have got that one on my list

37:42

to read , so awesome . Um , what

37:44

is your favorite podcast to listen to ?

37:47

Stephen Bartlett at the moment , because my 15

37:49

year old has introduced me to him and he

37:52

keeps telling me nuggets and I'm like , yeah

37:54

, that young man has speaks a lot

37:56

of sense , so I really love him yeah

37:58

, he does , and uh , I'm halfway

38:00

through reading his book as well , so

38:03

that's a good one too , and actually , I'd

38:05

add , I did Brenny Brown as well , actually

38:07

, because , speaking of shame , she's definitely

38:09

one to follow on that . Her podcast is amazing

38:11

on that yeah , she's fab , awesome

38:14

.

38:14

And what's your go-to snack when you're in a hurry

38:16

?

38:18

oh , go-to snack . It's probably

38:20

um pot of hummus and

38:22

pile of chopped veggies . If I'm doing

38:24

trying to be good , um , if

38:27

I'm , it's probably a bar

38:29

of dark chocolate if I'm not feeling

38:31

so virtuous .

38:34

I love that . I love that . You see , and there's

38:36

the difference in people , because I have gone

38:38

from drink drinking eating milk

38:41

chocolate because I love

38:43

chocolate . Like I grew up , my dad used to work

38:45

for Mars . He used to bring bags of

38:47

the stuff home . So I am a chocoholic

38:49

and it has taken me 40

38:51

years to wean myself off milk

38:53

chocolate and go to dark chocolate . So I feel like

38:56

having dark chocolate is very much

38:59

different people .

39:00

I still eat

39:02

milk chocolate , but yeah the other one satisfies

39:04

me better . Yeah awesome

39:07

.

39:07

And then , lastly , what is your ultimate

39:10

me time thing to do ?

39:13

oh , it's probably a sea swim

39:15

. Um , yeah , a sea

39:17

swim , although I did binge on Bridgerton

39:19

, um yeah , the last couple of nights

39:21

. So , depending on what mood I'm in , again

39:23

, probably virtuous would be sea swim

39:25

. Um , not so virtuous . Probably vegetate

39:28

on the couch with some some bridgeton

39:30

or something .

39:31

I love that and I'm totally jealous of

39:33

your proximity to the sea

39:35

. It's been something that's really been playing on my

39:37

mind recently , so very jealous

39:40

of that . Okay , awesome . Thank you

39:42

so much for coming on the show

39:44

. It has been fantastic conversation . I

39:46

hope you have taken some nuggets away , guys . I'll

39:49

be back next week with another episode and

39:52

, yeah , if you missed our Monday

39:54

episode , our Mini Mindset Monday episode , then

39:56

go back and have a listen for

39:58

more of us together

40:00

. So I'll see you in the next one . Bye

40:03

for now .