0:14

Hey, what's going on, everybody Back

0:17

to mile higher podcast episode 180 today is going to be kind of an interesting episode.

0:23

We had sort of a shift in our plan for our episode today, we are going to be talking about the Ammons family haunting, which you guys have been requesting some spooky content.

0:36

I know in years past, pretty much every year we do in a whole, a whole month of paranormal haunting, you know, spooky stuff that goes with Halloween.

0:46

However, we have been following a lot of cases right now and, and focusing our energy more on that.

0:53

And also going through a lot mentally that we just didn't have.

0:59

I feel like I didn't really have the energy to fully do a month of Halloween content, you know, and we felt like there were other more important things for us to focus on this month.

1:11

And we did want to give you guys one episode, because we know you guys love to hear about hauntings paranormal, and that's one of Josh's favorite subject.

1:22

So they really wanted to do this episode.

1:25

We had to get at least one in October.

1:27

Otherwise it's just a complete, complete waste of this.

1:30

Beautiful. And I feel like we need to change it because we have been doing a lot of true crime.

1:34

And I know people are also feeling very heavy about a lot of the cases that are going on right now.

1:39

It's just a very strange time.

1:42

And so we were going to be, well, we are going to be going through this haunting.

1:47

However, Josh is going to be guiding us through it for the most part, because I have been focused all day on a huge update in the hunt for Brian laundry.

1:57

And I wanted to start this episode, talking off, talking about that.

2:01

And that's why, even though it's Halloween and we normally have cobwebs and we put costumes on, we just feel that's really inappropriate on true crime content to be in a costume.

2:13

And that's why, especially Talking

2:16

about something so sensitive as the yes, Absolutely.

2:20

Just not the time or place to do that.

2:22

And unfortunately, this is the last episode going up this month in October, and then it'll just be, you know, waiting until next year, I guess.

2:31

Yeah. For more, maybe we can do more of that next year.

2:34

I know people do really enjoy that, but we are going to, like I said, cover that haunting, but we're going to start this episode off talking about the latest update on Brian laundry.

2:44

So obviously we are just getting this breaking news today, which is October 20th, that we are recording.

2:50

And at this point, I'm going to tell you what we know.

2:55

However new information could come out in the next couple of days.

3:01

By the time this episode goes live.

3:03

If there's anything major, I will probably insert a voiceover at some point during this update.

3:08

But if not, we will pin a comment post on social media, put something on our community tab.

3:15

If there is confirmation on all of this.

3:17

So this began about nine hours ago today this morning, it was announced that some articles, belonging to Brian laundry had been found in the reserve.

3:28

The Carlton reserve, according to the laundry family attorney, Steven berlino, Chris and Roberta laundry, went to the Mayakovsky Creek environmental park this morning to search for Brian.

3:39

The FBI and NPPD were informed last night of Bryan's parents intentions.

3:45

And they met with Chris and Roberta there this morning, after he briefed search on the trail that Brian frequented, some articles, belonging to Brian were found as of now law enforcement is conducting a more thorough investigation of that area.

4:02

So of course this caused quite a buzz online and everyone wanted to know what was going on.

4:08

Tons of media started flying over the scene.

4:11

No one could be allowed in.

4:13

So everyone was trying to figure out what was going on.

4:15

And eventually it was seeing that there was crime scene tape there as well.

4:19

And command center vehicles started showing up government vehicles started showing up.

4:25

Yeah, you always know that there's something that they don't want you to see, or they found something that They

4:29

don't want. Yup. And I was, you know, remaining hopeful at that point, thinking maybe it's just the items, whatever we didn't know anything else.

4:37

Then a few hours later there was an update from the FBI saying that items of interest were located in the Carlton reserve this morning in connection with this search for Brian laundry and FBI evidence response team is processing the scene.

4:50

The reserve is close to the public.

4:52

No further details are available at this time.

4:54

And then it came out that a senior law enforcement official told NBC news that what appeared to be partial remains had been found in the Carlton reserve in an area that was previously underwater.

5:07

These remains were found near a backpack, consistent with items that Brian laundry may have had.

5:13

So a press conference was announced very quickly after this.

5:18

I'm not sure if that information was supposed to be released that quickly, but it seemed like they wanted to confirm the details.

5:24

And they pulled together a press conference in like an app, a couple hours.

5:30

It was at four 30 Eastern time.

5:32

And it was very brief.

5:34

They didn't take any questioning. They had a prepared statement and not much more came out through this press conference.

5:41

Like I said, by the time you're watching this, I'm sure there will be more.

5:45

But right now, all they have told us is that investigators did find human remains, partial human remains and a backpack, and also a notebook belonging to laundry.

5:57

And they also did not confirm that it actually is Brian laundry, but they said that they were going to be out there for a few days.

6:05

And that it's going to be a little while until they do make any confirmation like that or give us any more information.

6:11

And it's very curious because the laundry parents were actually out there today.

6:17

And Chris, we know his father had been at the reserve before already, but this was the first day as far as I understand that his mother actually was out there.

6:29

So there's been a lot of confusion about where they called out there specifically.

6:34

Or did they just decide to search that day and happened to be there when these things were found or did they find things and then bring them in, but there were photographs of them taken what appears to be looking at items.

6:48

Yeah. And it's also interesting too, that this area where this backpack and remains are found was underwater until very recently, right?

6:56

So it seems that the water has receded because again, this is a swamp basically.

7:01

So water goes up and down depending on rainfall and just, you know, different environmental factors in this, Which

7:07

is something we've been discussing since the beginning.

7:09

The possibility of it just being too hard to find him due to the rising water levels.

7:14

There was a big storm at one point during all of this and to go back to what I was saying in that photo of his parents this morning, you can see an like an FBI agent has got his hand kind of on his father's shoulder.

7:29

And it looked to me like they were comforting them.

7:33

So it sounds like what they found is they they're confident that it does belong to Brian.

7:38

And what are the chances that the remains found near that are going to not be hit?

7:44

The means are literally in an area of the reserve that the parents told them to look like.

7:49

This was an area Brian was known to hang out at, in the reserve, which is interesting because it makes you wonder, did the FBI or the police know this entire time that he could be in this area.

8:02

Maybe they went to the area and because it was underwater at the time, they just didn't find anything.

8:06

Right. It took the water receding in order to uncover his remains.

8:12

It all makes sense. And going back to what we've said in previous episodes, you know, we were saying, you hope that they had something out there.

8:20

Some reason to believe he was out there with the amount of time they spent searching for him.

8:24

And so maybe they did have information or more reason to believe he really was out there.

8:30

They just couldn't access him because of the water, which has been something they've brought up several times about the high levels of water and how much, you know, trouble that was causing for them in the search.

8:40

Well, it sounds like they're going to be out there.

8:42

They've got the FBI forensic evidence team out there.

8:45

They're going to be out there at least for a couple of days.

8:47

Cause again, they only found partial human remains, which if that is Brian, which it seems like all signs point to the remains being.

8:56

Brian's what, you know, now it's kind of trying to figure out what happened to him.

9:00

What was the cause of death? Are they going to be able to find the rest of his remains as they continue searching?

9:04

Because partial remains to me, sounds like either he took his own life and then wildlife got ahold of him or the elements sort of, you know, pulled him apart because of the environmental factors.

9:17

Or he just was attacked by a wild, wild animals.

9:21

I'm saying if he didn't take his own life, then either he succumb to the, to the elements.

9:26

I mean, this is a very hard place to survive for long periods of time without supplies.

9:34

And plus there is plenty of wildlife in the Carlton reserve.

9:36

There's alligators I've heard even Panthers are reported to be there.

9:42

So who knows what exactly could have happened?

9:47

I know so many people are hoping that if it is him, that it was something like, you know, he succumbed to the elements or an animal or something like that because to so many taking your own life, doesn't feel like justice.

10:03

And I completely get that. This feels, I feel so incredibly sorry for her family today.

10:09

I just can't imagine what this day was like for them.

10:11

And how, how just angry you would be the idea of him just having committing commit suicide out there.

10:19

And that's the end. That's just the most cowardly, disgusting thing and leaves everyone feeling so empty.

10:29

And just, What does justice even look like?

10:32

I mean, you could argue that does having somebody go through the criminal justice system equal justice.

10:38

I think it depends on the family. You know, I think no one really is going to be able to know what justice would be like, unless you are her parents, you know, They

10:49

they're the ones that can have to determine it.

10:51

It doesn't matter what we all think Because

10:53

I've seen a lot of conversation today about maybe if it is Brian, that this is a better outcome for them in a way, because they could avoid years of pain and trial.

11:03

And that maybe there's information that Brian had that would really be upsetting for them to know.

11:09

However, I don't know if that's how they would feel at all, because I think if I was in their shoes personally, I would, I would want to know, and I would want to see that person be held accountable.

11:21

I would want to be able to read my victim statement in court, even if it meant mental stress for years.

11:28

But I think it just depends on the individual family.

11:30

And I'm not sure how they're feeling about this.

11:33

They haven't released any statement as far as now we could insert something if they do.

11:38

But yeah, it's just, it's like, it's hard to see it all kind of end like this.

11:44

I think I said, even in the last episode I have high hopes that he's going to be found alive and justice will be served.

11:50

And I feel that sometimes I just get, I kind of look more to the fantasy than the reality and what was more likely.

11:58

And it seemed like majority of people and you and Janell felt like, and my mom, when I talked to her just was, everyone seemed to think this guy is gonna end up dead and found out.

12:10

That's just kind of the way it's it happened.

12:13

I mean, it's, what is he supposed to?

12:16

I mean, what, what can he do? I mean, how often do people go on the run and actually stay on the run and get away with the crime?

12:22

You know, it happens, but it's, it's Definitely

12:25

more, it's more risk.

12:27

Right? Exactly. So I think we all knew that it was one of two scenarios.

12:31

He was either he was going to get caught and brought in, being found out in the middle of nowhere, trying to evade capture, or he was going to just go somewhere, maybe try to stick it out for a bit and then take his own life.

12:44

Or he just immediately went in there and went to his normal spot.

12:48

He usually goes to, and then he, he took his own life.

12:51

So yeah, Just,

12:53

we just don't know really at this point, All

12:57

we can hope for at this right now is that we, this journal is able to be Well,

13:01

yes, this is the other thing I wanted to discuss, because that was interesting.

13:05

I thought that that was mentioned by the FBI today because that was not released by the attorney.

13:10

He said, articles that belong to Brian.

13:12

He didn't specify a backpack or a notebook.

13:15

So the FBI, the media didn't have that information.

13:18

They didn't need to share that.

13:20

It seemed like they were trying to clarify, what's already come out so that they can put some of the rumors to rest, but then they brought up the notebook thing and that's just sparked a whole new conversation.

13:33

What is in this notebook?

13:35

Is this notebook even salvageable?

13:37

Is it destroyed?

13:39

Has it been underwater?

13:40

Did he have a waterproof backpack?

13:42

There's been a lot of talk about, did he have a dry bag or some type of special camping bag?

13:48

And would that, would that actually be able to protect it even if it was submerged underwater?

13:53

Yes. If you went outside in the rain you're or like we're in, Oh,

13:57

this is a totally different, this isn't like just dropping your bag in a pool or The

14:01

merge, which I don't think we've even gotten clarification about if the backpack was underwater, but it seems like, I mean, they had searched this area many times and the water was high, so I assume the backpack was underwater to Yeah.

14:16

Or, I mean, this it's just so lush in there that it could have just been like in water, underneath some Mangroves

14:22

separate from the backpack.

14:25

Yeah. Yeah. We just don't know at this point, I

14:27

mean, I guess you can only hope that maybe there's some answers in that and that could be some type of closure.

14:33

I mean, just having nothing and no answers for anyone of any of all of this.

14:37

I mean, that's just so unfair for her family.

14:40

So I'm very curious about this notebook and yeah, we'll insert any other updates that come out if there's anything important at this point in the show.

14:49

So we send our love to the potato and Schmidt families, and, you know, we hope that we all get more clarification on all of this soon.

14:58

So actually we just got a new bit of information, some breaking news right now, as we're recording this.

15:05

And I wanted to share, because this is clearing up some of the confusion we were just discussing.

15:08

So Steven Bertolina, the laundry family attorney has made another statement.

15:13

So he says that his clients had called him yesterday and said that they wanted to search the reserve since it was back open.

15:22

And then he Bertolli now had called the police and told them that the laundries would be at the reserve at 7:00 AM that day and that the police could meet them out there.

15:31

So they were the ones who decided to go out there.

15:34

They weren't called in by law enforcement.

15:35

And he also said that Chris and Roberta and two officers were spread out on either side of a trail.

15:43

And that Chris, his father Brian's father was the one to actually find a bag containing some of Brian's items.

15:51

And then on the other side of the trail, officers were searching and they found the backpack and the notebook on the other side, which ended up being near the remains.

16:02

And it seems as far as what we know now that even though Chris did find the item, he did not, he was not part of finding Brian's actual remains.

16:14

So yeah, that kind of clears it up a little bit.

16:16

They weren't brought out there to identify something they chose to go out there and just happened to find these things, which obviously people are, I mean, have a lot of questions about today, played out incredibly Strange.

16:29

Yeah. I don't know what to even Think

16:31

about it. It's like, wow. Okay. So the first day they decide they want to go out there.

16:35

They just happened to see the it's just straight To

16:38

where it is. Like I'm still, I hope we get more clarification.

16:41

And again, I will insert a little update after this if we do in the next few days.

16:47

Okay. So it is now Friday, October 22nd.

16:50

And we got a lot of new information yesterday, the 21st.

16:54

So I wanted to go over that.

16:56

So first we found out that the remains that they found were skeletal remains.

17:00

They said bones at first.

17:01

Then it was announced first, actually that the laundry parents had been formed, that the remains were Brian laundries.

17:09

And very quickly after that information came out and FBI confirmation came out as well.

17:14

And they say they were able to use dental records to identify the remains.

17:19

Obviously this is not the outcome anyone was hoping for.

17:24

And I'm sure the potato family is really struggling to process what's going on right now.

17:31

But they did put out a statement through their attorney.

17:33

It says they are grieving the loss of their beautiful daughter.

17:36

Gaby's father will make a statement at the appropriate time and when they are emotionally ready or All

17:43

right. So let's go ahead and switch gears here and get into this haunting story.

17:48

I mean, there's exorcisms, there's lots of craziness that happens with this family that lived in the demon house.

17:55

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company. All right. Are you guys ready for this haunting case?

22:02

Yes. The reason why I pick this one is because a lot of the haunting stories out there, I think people just automatically call bullshit on and they're like, there's no way.

22:14

This is real, you know, and lights out.

22:16

I cover tons. I mean, I've covered probably nine different ed and Lorraine Warren cases.

22:21

And every time I put one of those cases up, it's like split 50, 50, like 50% of people believe, you know, the story and 50% are just like, they're frauds.

22:32

It's all a hoax it's for money.

22:34

And that's just kinda how it goes in the paranormal world.

22:37

I mean, a lot of it's very, very split.

22:39

It's very controversial. A lot of people think that kind of like true crime there's people in the paranormal world that are just there to exploit it and to make money off of these people's stories.

22:50

Okay. A lot of people are, I'm one of those people who tends to fall in the more skeptical category some of the time, or a lot of the time when it comes to some of these stories, because some of them are just so awful overblown and just, you can prove that they're Yeah,

23:06

yeah. Or there's just no evidence, no witnesses, no way to verify anything.

23:13

That's why I didn't, we don't do much paranormal content on This

23:16

shit started lights out because she was like, she just didn't Want

23:19

people get mad at me when I don't believe in things.

23:21

They expect me to believe in every single thing.

23:23

And if I don't then I'm And

23:26

you sh everybody should have a certain level of skepticism.

23:29

I mean, Leave in the paranormal. I believe in spirits.

23:32

Yes, Absolutely.

23:35

There's plenty of stories I believe in. I'm just picky about what I choose to believe.

23:39

I mean, it's just energy at the end of the day, right?

23:42

Yeah. Residual energy leftover from a human human Soul.

23:46

Right. That's right. I do believe in that.

23:48

So if you believe in that, then I want you to go into this with a very open mind, because a lot of crazy shit happens in this one, but the difference between this one and some of the other cases out there is there are actually a lot of witnesses, not only witnesses that were in this woman's house and actually observed things happening, heard voices.

24:12

And we're talking about people from CPS child protective services, we're talking about police officers.

24:20

And we're also talking about a priest who performed multiple exorcisms in this house.

24:26

So this house was that she lived in was where this haunting occurred.

24:30

And this house is located in Gary Indiana, which was kind of funny.

24:35

I was looking at this earlier and there was like, I was reading on Reddit.

24:38

Somebody was like, there's a lot more, you need to be worried about then.

24:41

And ghosts or demons in Gary, Indiana.

24:44

Cause Gary Indiana was actually once the murder capital in the war, like the entire country.

24:49

Yes. Oh, I didn't know that very, very like rough, rough place or a lot of rough neighborhoods there yet.

24:56

I've heard a lot of bad things happened there. I didn't realize it was one of the top.

25:00

Wow. Yeah. I think it's still up there, but yeah.

25:03

So in November, 2011, Latoya Ammons rented a house on Carolina street in Gary Indiana.

25:11

And she moved in with her three kids and her mother Rosa Campbell.

25:16

So there they are. We have pictures.

25:18

They've been interviewed a number of times about this whole experience they had.

25:24

But Latoya had two sons who are seven and nine years old.

25:26

And one daughter who is 12 and the kids were very excited to move into their new home.

25:32

And at first everything was great.

25:34

You know, they didn't really notice anything, but literally only a month into living there.

25:39

This is December mind you, swarms of big horseflies infested.

25:44

They're screened in porch, which is weird because it's the middle of winter flies do not hang out in the middle.

25:54

And this is a screened in porch. So it's still kind of outside.

25:57

So it's still be cold in there. So why is there big swarms of horseflies in there?

26:02

And so Latoya, her mother, you know, kept killing the flies, but they always came back day after day.

26:09

Swarms would return to the porch in huge numbers, despite killing them, removing them next day, go out to the porch, they're back.

26:21

And It's not happening to any of their neighbors.

26:24

No. Wow. But then as quickly as these horseflies arrived, they suddenly disappeared.

26:31

Just ceased to, to be there anymore.

26:33

Which someone say, well, probably just got too cold and eventually killed all the flies.

26:39

Or maybe there was something more going on with these.

26:44

And they just vanished for some reason.

26:47

But Latoya and her mother Rosa were very relieved by this, but this was just the beginning of the fun.

26:53

Soon more strange things started happening after midnight each night, they heard footsteps on the basement stairs.

27:03

No, no, No, no, no. There's been a couple of nights in our house where I hear noises from downstairs and it shakes me to my core and I jump up and I'm like, do I need to grab a weapon before I run down there?

27:16

And I run down there and there's nothing.

27:18

And this was, this was like last night to wait.

27:22

Yeah. I mean, yes, but I think it might've been our bunny.

27:25

We have this one bunny who's kind of a chunker and she likes to jump on things.

27:29

And when she jumps off, she kinda like slammed them against the wall.

27:32

Sometimes when people hear these big bangs and think something bad happened and we'll run down and it's just the bunny.

27:37

But

27:37

I

27:37

was

27:37

going

27:37

to

27:37

say,

27:37

I

27:37

don't

27:37

know,

27:37

because

27:37

when

27:37

I

27:37

was

27:37

staying

27:37

at

27:37

your

27:37

house,

27:37

oh

27:44

yeah. Corelli, she's here for general, by the way.

27:47

I'm Jenelle today. Yes. Yes. But she's pets it for us and stayed at our house.

27:51

I was house sitting for you.

27:52

And I was, I think it was just like in the bedroom or whatever.

27:56

I swear. I heard the front door open and it stuck out to me.

28:01

And so like, I even went out there and like, cause this was like Creeks

28:03

too, when you open it, it's like, no.

28:05

Yeah. I, I that's what I heard. I heard the creaking.

28:08

And so like, I like got super scared because I'm home alone.

28:12

And I mean, you guys weren't even like, this was like day two of me, you know of me house sitting.

28:17

Yeah. And yeah. So another, and there was literally nothing. And he got the creepiest feeling.

28:20

I think your house is haunted. We've had so many moments like that.

28:24

I mean, if you've been watching our show for a long time, since we moved into this house, we've had like weird creepy things happen and weird things with our neighbors.

28:31

And yeah, My brother was staying here and he said somebody was banging on the front.

28:37

Yes. In the middle of the night. And then he went out there and no one was there, which, I mean, we also have like some creepy neighbors.

28:43

So I don't Know. I don't think it was that We

28:46

are moving actually eventually here because there's a lot of things have happened In

28:52

the studio. Honestly. We've had like some true crime going on.

28:55

We've had paranormal in this house. It's been like a wild ride.

28:58

And then the studio is totally haunted. And last week your phone fell off the charge.

29:03

If you watch the session, things happen on the session all the time and we just leave it.

29:08

Yeah. Stuff. The stuff fell over on here.

29:10

The other other day to just like randomly fell off Or

29:13

the times we'll randomly hear sounds.

29:15

And we'll all hear them during the recording.

29:17

And we're like, what the hell was that was the soundboard go off.

29:20

Like one time we had a little car honk and then, you know, looked in the footage and it wasn't even there.

29:25

It wasn't even there.

29:28

So that's how demonic possession starts.

29:33

I will sleep good tonight in the house.

29:35

Honestly, I have a feeling, whatever is haunting us is like a friendly spirit.

29:40

I'm going to tell myself that nothing That is trying to hurt us or as malicious, I think it is a malevolent spirit that is just here because either I welcomed it in here at some point, I

29:52

don't know when we moved into this house, there were problems right away, like Halloween of 2019.

29:59

When we did, we did a bunch of Halloween content.

30:01

I remember we were, remember the thing with the addict.

30:03

We heard sounds up in the attic and we had to open the heart.

30:08

And then the TV member, one of the first weeks we moved in our TV,

30:12

like randomly, No

30:14

dude, it flew off the fucking wall.

30:16

Do you not remember that? It was on the mantle.

30:19

We had it like balanced on the mantle and all of a sudden in the middle of the night, all of a sudden the TV just flew off the mantle.

30:27

It was one of our second, maybe our second week here.

30:30

You're right. It's just been, there are so many things we're starting to forget about that, but we've caught a lot of them on camera.

30:35

There was one in one of my videos as well.

30:38

I don't know. So

30:40

basically the toy and her family are having similar experiences to what we've had in our house.

30:46

They're hearing footsteps going down the basement stairs.

30:48

And of course, when they rushed to the stairs, there's nobody there.

30:53

So then it went from hearing footsteps to soon hearing the sound of the door, opening from the basement to the kitchen.

31:00

So a lot of houses, the basement door is in the kitchen and they would hear that door open.

31:05

So the, and mind you, this is two women with a couple of kids living in this house.

31:10

They're freaking out because they're like, I mean, they're not in the best neighborhood ever.

31:13

So there's a strong likeliness that somebody could be breaking in or an intruder or something like that.

31:18

But of course, when they go to check, there's nobody there.

31:22

So as these things are happening, Latoya is getting a little more freaked out.

31:24

So she starts locking the basement door at night, but they kept hearing the same sounds, the heavy footsteps followed by the creaky door, opening and closing.

31:34

Then one night Latoya woke up startled.

31:37

As someone was coming out of her closet and walked into the living room.

31:43

She was like, whoa, what was that?

31:46

And she actually crept out of bed and followed it.

31:49

And when she went into the living room, there was a shadowy figure that kind of resembled a large man that was just pacing around the room.

31:58

She then turned on the light to the living room, preparing for the worst to see whoever this figure is potentially an intruder walking around her house.

32:07

But of course, when she turned on the light, the figure disappeared.

32:11

But then what's super crazy is that when she walked over, she saw large wet, muddy boot prints all across the floor.

32:22

So you might be thinking, well, this could just be Latoya seeing things that aren't there, but there's actually a picture of the footprints for one.

32:29

But she also, wasn't the only one who witnessed events inside this house on March 10th, 2012, Latoya hosted awake for the death of a family member.

32:39

And several relatives were up late that night with Latoya and Rosa and everyone was just talking and grieving together.

32:46

And then around 2:00 AM in the morning, they heard the daughter screaming from her room, mama, mama.

32:53

Of course they got up rushed into her daughter's room.

32:56

And what they saw was absolutely shocking and unexplainable, her daughter was unconscious and levitating off of the bed.

33:05

Holy shit.

33:07

Okay. Just floating above the bed.

33:10

I'm speechless. That's I don't know what I would do walking into your daughter's room.

33:15

I would be very, very scared for her Shit.

33:19

So they ended up making a circle around her and started Praying.

33:24

I would call 9 1 1 personally, but I'd be so scared.

33:28

I'd be like screaming, running to neighbor's house.

33:31

Trying to get anyone I could I'd be so scared.

33:35

What's nine 11 going to do about That

33:37

though. I don't know something. Hopefully the ambulance can bring something.

33:41

I'll bring her down, bring her down. Yeah, that's insane.

33:44

I don't even, oh my God. I feel so bad for them too.

33:47

And you know, these pictures of them, these interviews, it was totally traumatic.

33:52

Yeah. I'm sure it was terrifying.

33:54

I really can't imagine seeing something like that.

33:57

Yeah. But then when her daughter woke up, she had no memory of what had happened.

34:02

So she was unconscious and literally just like taken over by something else.

34:07

I hate that kind of stuff. That scares me so bad.

34:10

So is that her getting possessed when she was levitating?

34:14

Probably. I think she was already possessed.

34:16

She was possessed probably immediately after moving in and whatever this entity is, is gaining strength and is manipulating her and feeding off of her.

34:28

I mean, oftentimes if you believe in the world of evil spirits, demons, whatever you want to call it, oftentimes we find in CA over a large number of cases that children are often preyed upon because they are so naive and gullible.

34:44

And

34:46

Yeah, I'd say they're closer to the other side too.

34:48

So maybe there's still more, there's always talk of that.

34:52

Like an easier, Yeah.

34:54

It's definitely an easier being to possess.

34:58

Yeah. There's a, it's a lot easier for them to manipulate and That's

35:02

a new fear for me for having kids.

35:05

I'm glad we're not going to have them in this house.

35:09

Yeah,

35:10

seriously. Also, after this whole ordeal, the relatives that were visiting Latoya left immediately and refused to ever come back into the house and any friends or family who did come to the house eventually saw something terrifying and did the same thing.

35:23

They never came back. So it was very lonely and isolating for Latoya and her family because nobody wanted to come over to their place anymore because they were all terrified of it.

35:32

There they're already associating it with some type of demonic activity.

35:36

And I, they were all, I mean, she comes from a religious family, Latoya and her family members are, are involved in the church.

35:44

I would say probably Christian.

35:46

And so when this type of activity starts happening, Well,

35:51

I think it's scary for everyone, no matter what religious background you have, your daughter levitating and all these things happening in your house would just be terrifying for anybody.

36:00

And it's such a horrible situation, especially when you own the home.

36:04

Cause it's not like you can, well, I guess you could, if you wanted to spend a ton of money, go stay in a hotel and get out of the situation.

36:11

But that's not always an option for people, You

36:13

know? And for How long, I mean, and then how do you, it's like the fear of how do I even sell this house?

36:19

Especially with it, the rumors starting to get around about it, Or

36:22

how do you fix this problem? Who do you call?

36:24

Who's going to come fix this.

36:26

Like there's not just Gus

36:28

Ghostbusters. I'm not going to call you. Yeah. You're not gonna call it ghost bus.

36:30

No, definitely not. I don't know.

36:32

That's Kind of puts you in a tough position.

36:35

Oh my Gosh. I can't imagine. Especially trying to get rid of something.

36:37

That's not there. You can't see you can't tangibly.

36:41

See? Right. It's not like you can physically like set a trap for it captured in a bottle and then like take it outside and release it.

36:49

So that would be cool.

36:50

But let's play a clip of this interview of Latoya.

36:54

Just kind of talking about her experience with this.

36:57

I know the demons started, his image started coming in and full.

37:03

Like we would see them, but we would see, you know, like shout the shadows, like the ghost sleep, look over them.

37:11

Like as if a person was walking around city state, they have some substance for their shadow.

37:17

Yes. But my other guests who came by, they saw them as well.

37:21

So it had us, nobody would come back, no one, no friends, no family wanted to come around.

37:29

And you know, we understood because it was scary.

37:33

But at the same time we felt alone hurt loss.

37:38

And we had no one to depend on.

37:41

But, but the, So

37:43

just like you were saying in this type of situation, I think a lot of people would be like, I need to get out of this house.

37:49

Clearly. There's something going on in here.

37:51

Whether you go to a hotel or you just move out completely.

37:53

And of course, Latoya wanted to get out of the situation.

37:56

She wanted to get her family out of this house, but they didn't have a lot of money.

38:00

And they didn't know anyone who could take in five people.

38:03

So they were just kind of stuck there and having to deal with this horrible situation.

38:08

So Rosa told her that they needed to get help from the church because something supernatural was obviously happening in the house and they couldn't deal with it alone.

38:16

So Latoya started calling local churches, but after explaining what was going on, most of them brushed her off.

38:23

That's what's crazy. Is that seriously though? If I were to call up the local churches around here right now and I said, hi, I think I might have demonic activity happening in my house.

38:33

Most of them would just be like, sorry, I can't help you.

38:36

Or, Well, it's not like they're really trained all of them to do that, but yeah.

38:41

You'd think that would be the right person to call, right?

38:44

Yeah. I mean, that's, that's kinda what you grow up thinking.

38:48

There's no one else to call. Right. I remember my member, my friend who thought she was haunted back in college, I just did an episode on my crazy roommate stories on the session.

38:58

She had to go visit with a priest, but they wouldn't come back to our dorm because she thought the dorm was haunted.

39:04

But yeah, that's like, I guess the only person you can try to go to is a church.

39:10

Well, and you have to look for the right church and not all churches have somebody who can help with that.

39:16

Aren't a lot of priests trained to exercise though.

39:19

No, actually there's very few that still do that.

39:22

Now it's kind of a loss practice.

39:24

There's there's definitely, and it's very controversial.

39:28

I mean, there's a, there's a lot of even Catholic churches that don't recognize exorcisms as being even a real thing.

39:36

But the Vatican still does have a preset can do exorcisms Christ

39:43

compels you Sort of.

39:45

Yeah. Sort of. I mean, there's some more different rites and rituals that they do, but it's, it's not like there's just going to be somebody who can perform an exorcism, you know, that you can fine.

39:55

Right. Just because you're a priest doesn't mean you're qualified or have the know how to cause your cause.

40:01

You're basically going to battle with some type of supernatural being that could be either evil or, you know, just Your

40:11

only hope if you can't get help from a church is maybe some type of small paranormal investigator group, you know, like Brian Bonner, who we had on our show at one point at the episode is taken down by YouTube for literally no reason.

40:24

Thanks so much. But that was an interesting interview because he would go to people's houses where they thought there was hauntings going on, investigate, figure out if it was something else or if it was something actually paranormal, but it's not like that's readily available everywhere.

40:39

Yeah. Yeah. Well, all of the belief, different belief systems have different ways of handling this type of thing too.

40:44

Like if you were to look into native American shamanism and things like that, there's, there's, you know, they'd call them different things.

40:54

Demons is a word that is from Catholicism is from the Bible, right?

40:59

But from other religions and other cultures that there it's referred to by different names, but ultimately it comes down to dealing with an evil spirit.

41:09

There's some type of evil spirit or interdimensional being that is from some other realm that is malicious in nature that you're dealing with, which is very possible.

41:19

And there's lots of documented cases of people interacting with these types of beings.

41:26

So I guess based on what your own personal beliefs are, it's going to be how you handle your surgery contact or Right.

41:32

And obviously people think that exorcisms is the most like efficient way to deal with this type of thing.

41:36

So that's kind of what they're trying to figure out is if we can find somebody to bring them in and hopefully read the house of this evil spirit, It

41:45

would be so desperate if that was happening to my child, that I would call.

41:48

And just about anyone who claimed they could do anything, But

41:51

one of the churches, they told her to clean the house with bleach and ammonia and then to draw crosses on every door and windows with olive Oil.

42:01

And this would help rid the house of evil spirits.

42:03

Is that common bleach? I've never heard that before.

42:07

Sweet. I don't know. I think it kills the germs in the house.

42:10

Maybe they think that there's some type of mold in their house that's causing them to hallucinate.

42:14

So by cleaning the whole house with bleach, maybe get rid of some type of, Hmm.

42:19

That's interesting. And then the olive oil.

42:21

Thing's interesting too. I haven't heard that, but the olive oil helps read the house of evils.

42:26

Yeah. This was just what one particular church told them to do.

42:29

So this isn't like there's no, No, I know.

42:31

I know it's not the handbook.

42:34

Right. But yeah. It's interesting how everyone has a different take on how to handle these.

42:38

Right? Right. So she started, she did all of this and then she even poured olive oil on her kids, hands and feet and used it to draw crosses on their foreheads.

42:46

She also prayed over the children.

42:48

And when she did this, it seemed like this evil presence would leave them alone, at least for a little while, but it was never for very long because then the strange things just kept on happening.

42:58

So Latoya decided to reach out to a psychic and she got advice from two psychics who told her that more than 200 demons were possessing the home.

43:08

Oh, holy Fuck.

43:10

So two, two psychics.

43:13

Oh my God, there were 200 demons that were infesting this home that this is a total infestation of demonic.

43:21

Like basically a portal was opened in this house to some other dark world where demons are just come free, flowing in and out of it.

43:33

What do you even do with that information? How do you go to sleep ever again?

43:37

I don't know. They were like, you need to move immediately and never go back.

43:42

And that's the only advice I could give them that this is like, this house is too far gone to even stay there.

43:49

Like there is no reading this house of the evening And

43:51

sell it now who wants a house with 200 demons.

43:57

Right? So they said, you know, if you're going to stay in this house, then you need to follow these instructions very carefully.

44:03

So what they told her to do was to make an altar in their basement using an end table in a white sheet and then set it up with a Bible, a white candle, and then statues of Mary, Joseph and Jesus.

44:15

And then she poured salt all along the basement walls, which would, which is a known thing to help keep evil spirits.

44:21

Yeah. My roommate tried that too.

44:23

Brought in the salt to the dorm. Very nice.

44:26

She also opened the Bible to Psalm 91, which is a passage about being protected by God.

44:31

And then she got help from a friend in order to complete this ritual.

44:35

And they actually all dressed in white and tied white scarves to their head.

44:38

And they burn Sage and sulfur through the entire house, leaving a thick trail of smoke and together, they basically walked around, reciting the Psalm 91 out loud, Latoya even drew a cross in the air with the smoke as they made their way through the house.

44:52

They're basically doing their own sort of exorcism Sarah ceremony inside of the house.

44:58

They went all around upstairs and then into the basement.

45:01

And that was it. That was all they could really do.

45:03

And now they just had to wait and see if it actually worked.

45:06

And for the next three days, everything seemed totally normal and nothing strange or unexplained happened in the house.

45:13

But then three days later, the spirits came back and they came back with a vengeance.

45:20

And this time they went straight at her kids because her kids started acting very strangely.

45:27

They would get these twisted smiles that would appear on their faces for no reason.

45:31

And they started talking and strange deep voices.

45:36

This is giving me actual, like this is actually making me a little scared.

45:40

So imagine a seven, nine and 12 year old walking around the house talking and do voice eyes bulging.

45:51

Oh my God, I feel so bad for this family.

45:53

Smile crooked, like a crooked smile, like a twisted, oh my God.

46:00

Clearly being, you know, some type of possessions happening there in order to make that happen because the demons are pissed.

46:08

They did not like this whole godly ceremony they had inside the home.

46:12

That was completely, it was like spitting in their faces.

46:16

So now they're coming back meaner than before, but the kids would go through these episodes where they would, they would talk different, look different, and then they would not remember any of it.

46:29

Afterwards. Her seven-year-old son would actually sit in his closet, talking to himself and literally having entire conversation as if somebody was in there with him.

46:38

And when he would have this conversation and we would talk in a low gruff voice that was so deep.

46:45

There's no way it could come from a seven-year-old kid.

46:49

And he'd say things like I've been here long enough.

46:53

I came to kill. I'm going to kill now, your seven-year-old son sitting alone and saying shit like that.

47:00

And the deep voice. And then her nine-year-old described in detail, what it was like to be killed.

47:07

Her daughter heard voices that would taunt her and she would cover her ears and yell things like I can't take it anymore and make them stop.

47:13

I can't look in their eyes.

47:15

Absolutely terrifying.

47:17

Latoya also felt strange things to her.

47:19

Temperature would rise. She felt weak and lightheaded and her body shook.

47:24

And it was unlike anything she'd ever felt before.

47:26

And she just knew that this was not some natural thing.

47:29

Her body was going through that. There was something supernatural that was causing these feelings and her body to change.

47:37

Rosa tried to help her daughter and grandchildren as best as she could.

47:41

What's interesting is that she didn't experience anything herself and believe this was because she had a guardian angel protecting her.

47:50

So it's just Latoya and the kids, but Rosa is seemingly untouched by this.

47:57

She's also seen wearing that cross necklace and pretty much every photo.

48:02

So I wonder if that's something to do with it.

48:04

There's some level of protection with that, but eventually things got violent.

48:08

When one of the boys shot out of the bathroom, like something had literally picked him up and threw him out just through the door.

48:17

And if you think that was bad toy, his daughter seemed to get the worst of it though.

48:21

Once she was hit so hard with a headboard that she needed stitches.

48:25

And another time she said she was held down and choked by an invisible force, God,

48:31

the Trauma, which I'm like what choked by an invisible force so much so that she was literally like paralyzed.

48:38

She couldn't move. She couldn't talk.

48:41

So I'm like maybe sleep paralysis potentially Could

48:46

be possible. I

48:48

mean, it seems like this is happening. It's happening.

48:51

Yeah. Sleep paralysis demons.

48:53

Yeah. Could be, could be something like that.

48:55

She also said a terrifying voice spoke to her and told her that she would never see her family again.

49:01

And that they'd be dead in 20 minutes.

49:03

So very specific things are being said and being heard by her kids, which where's that coming from?

49:09

I mean, unless they're being fed this, but again, multiple people are, are witnessing this things also escalated at night and the kids could hardly sleep.

49:19

They were so exhausted and sleep deprived that they missed a lot of school.

49:23

And some nights Latoya checked her family into a hotel, which was something she couldn't really afford, but they did it just so that they can get a good night's sleep.

49:31

That's so sad.

49:33

Seriously. It's terrible. The last night the family spent in the house was very violent.

49:37

A lamp in an air freshener flew from the bedroom into the living room.

49:41

And the kids were having episodes and throwing chairs and other furniture around it was absolute chaos.

49:47

So Latoya and Rosa grabbed what they could took the kids and left.

49:50

And her older son was picked up and flipped right off of the porch as they fled.

49:55

So at this point, Latoya is desperate for answers and she decides to take her kids to the doctor in order to get them checked out.

50:02

So she took them to their family doctor named Dr.

50:04

Jeffrey in April, 2012.

50:09

He said later that as soon as he walked into the exam room, he was suddenly terrified.

50:13

He felt like an absolute sense of dread, just overcame him.

50:17

And in his 20 years as a doctor, he never felt anything like that before he believed the family was suffering from delusions and hallucinations that were making them believe that there were ghosts in their home.

50:28

But then literally in the doctor's office, he witnessed the seven-year-old boy start cursing at him in this deep, horrifying voice.

50:38

Obviously the doctor is stunned that the seven-year-old boy is cussing him out, but then his brother, the nine-year-old joined in.

50:45

And then pretty soon both boys just lunged randomly at the doctor and attacked him.

50:49

The medical staff tried to intervene when suddenly the younger boy was lifted off of the ground and thrown into the wall.

50:58

Mind you, nobody was touching him.

51:00

He then landed on the floor and passed out.

51:03

And as soon as he passed out, the older boy passed out at the exact same time.

51:08

And they even tried to shake them and like slapped and be like, wake up, wake up, wake up.

51:12

And they, they couldn't, they were just both out cold.

51:15

So at the doctor's office, they call 9 1 1, and at least seven police officers came with multiple ambulances.

51:22

The staff panicked, and it was impossible for the officers to even figure out what had happened, because it was just so mind blowing what they had just witnessed that they were, they didn't even get the full story of what had actually happened.

51:33

How do you Explain that to Yeah,

51:36

exactly. How do you, well, they just freaked out.

51:40

Yeah. There's just no way to really explain that.

51:43

Eventually the boys woke up and the family waited together in the hospital room, but then it started again, the younger boy started screaming and trying to attack everyone in the room members of the medical staff rushed in again.

51:54

And it took five men to control him.

51:57

And at this point, the people that are very concerned about the children, they're like what is going on with these kids?

52:02

So they actually call the department of child services in to have them come and investigate because they were, they were under the staff was basically worried that the kids were being abused or neglected because they were just like, what is this behavior?

52:16

Something is happening. And I think that the fact that CPS got involved in this case, legitimize The

52:20

whole story. Yeah. And I mean, the there's the whole report, the intake reports actually out on the internet, you can actually download it and read it.

52:28

So the DCS actually sent out Valerie Washington, who's an experienced caseworker who had witnessed extreme violence, abuse, and poverty to go on an interview.

52:37

Latoya and her children, the staff reported that Latoya and her kids were physically healthy.

52:42

The kids had no injuries, marks, cuts, or bruises.

52:45

And the hospital psychiatrist had talked to Latoya and said, she seemed to be sound mind.

52:51

So she seemed to be with it based on her conversations with her.

52:56

But Valerie immediately suspected that Latoya was suffering from a mental illness that was affecting her children, which I think that's what most logical people would think when looking at this situation that there's gotta be something going on mentally and perhaps the mother's mentally ill.

53:13

And therefore that is affecting the children in a negative way because to her, it looked like the kids were encouraged every time they exhibited these strange behaviors and things just kept escalating as result.

53:26

So it was kinda like almost encouraged is what she felt like.

53:29

But then again, this is just her initial view of what's going on here.

53:35

But while she was actually talking to the seven year old boy, he growled at her and gnashed his teeth.

53:40

Then his eyes rolled back in his head and only the whites of his eyes could be seen, oh my God, which is obviously super freaky to witness, but it is still explainable.

53:51

But then the boy lunged at his brother and started choking him.

53:54

He held on so tight that again, it took multiple adults to control him at this point, Valerie decided to take a break and figure out what to do next.

54:03

I'm sure she Was like, totally confused.

54:06

What do I even do here?

54:08

Totally. I mean, this is probably not the average case kits as a caseworker.

54:15

Yeah. I mean, I'm sure she's seen a lot of terrible things, but this just so confusing.

54:21

So later that night she took the boys in their grandmother into a separate room with an RN and a psychologist, the younger boy growled again, while staring at his brother.

54:29

And he spoke in what sounded like an adult man's voice and said, it's time to die.

54:36

I will kill you, the older boy then bent over and started like ramming himself into his grandmother.

54:43

And he just kept running into her stomach with his head over and over again, while growling at the same time, Rosa took his hand and actually said, you're not my grandson.

54:53

You're a demon. And she started praying as she prayed the boy smile widened.

54:59

And he walked backwards towards the wall.

55:01

So he just walks backwards. And then to everyone's shock, he literally just kept walking backwards up the wall.

55:10

What? Yeah. Yeah. In this, in this hospital or like with these people?

55:15

Yeah. If I saw this, how terrifying Backwards

55:18

onto the ceiling, It's

55:21

just, why is there not video footage of this?

55:23

Did they not record, you know, sessions like this?

55:29

No. Or it's still like classified or something.

55:31

I don't know. That's Possible

55:34

Because it's a DCS, But they, they probably do keep record.

55:37

They don't often release it, but I don't, I actually don't know how that works.

55:40

That's insane. Just why do we have no visuals of any of this happening?

55:44

That's always my thing. I know.

55:46

I want to see it. It's hard for me to believe things when I don't see them, but I'm not saying I doubt with family or no, not necessarily.

55:55

So I know I'm totally open-minded I really do believe this family.

55:59

I just wish we could see it for ourselves.

56:01

You know? I know, I know. I know.

56:03

So he's walking backwards up the wall onto the ceiling all while holding his grandmother's hand too.

56:11

So his grandmother's going like this, raising her hand, watching her grandson.

56:19

I think I would drop his hand. I would be so scared Until

56:22

he drops. Oh my God. But then he lands on his feet.

56:27

Yeah. Like a cat. Yeah. He's like drops off the ceiling.

56:30

Poop lands softly on his feet all while still holding his grandmother rose his hand.

56:36

And everybody's just absolutely stunned in complete silence at what they just witnessed or like, holy shit.

56:41

What was that? I mean, they're very freaked out at this point.

56:43

Cause they're like, this is not human, whatever this is, doesn't defies what a human being can do.

56:49

So what is making this boy capable of doing these absolutely impossible, spooky things.

56:58

Right? Valerie, the caseworker was there and she ran out of the room because she was so weirded out by what she had just seen.

57:06

Other staff members come out after her there, they're running, trying to find the doctor, trying to explain what's going on.

57:12

Doctor, nurse, all these people witnesses.

57:17

Wow. So they found the doctor. They sent the doctor back into the room to talk to the boy because he wanted to see what had just happened.

57:26

Also. He wanted to see if he could do the same thing again.

57:28

And he's like, oh, well I missed it. Let's see if we can do it again.

57:31

Well, someone get a camera out, right?

57:34

The doctor goes in, he starts talking to the boys and he's like, can you do this again?

57:38

And they're like, what are you talking about? Like, can you walk backwards up the wall?

57:41

He's like walk backwards up the wall.

57:43

That's the thing is every time they did these absolutely bizarre, almost supernatural things.

57:48

They didn't have any recollection of doing it afterwards.

57:51

It just was like, yeah, it was like, never happened.

57:55

Wow. That's so insane. And it was at this point that the RN actually suggested that the boy might be possessed by a demon.

58:03

Even Valerie, who is a complete skeptic, agreed that there was some sort of evil influence on this family.

58:11

At this point, they admitted the seven year old boy into the hospital and Latoya stayed with him overnight.

58:16

Rosa took the other kids to stay with a relative and none of them wanted to go back to their house.

58:20

As you can imagine, the next day was a little boy's birthday.

58:24

He turned eight years old and the poor kid was in the hospital, celebrating his birthday and things just got worse.

58:31

DCS told Latoya that they wanted to talk to the family again.

58:35

And Rosa brought the other kids back to the hospital.

58:37

The family got a little cake and sang happy birthday, trying to celebrate together as best as they could after all this shit's going on.

58:45

After they ate the cake, Valerie came in to talk to Latoya and she broke the news that they were taking her children into their custody because they believe that they're being neglected.

58:54

And we're concerned that the kids had been missing so much school.

58:57

It's actually just to custody of the kids.

58:59

Yeah. That's such bullshit. That is fucked up.

59:02

Well, Valerie wrote in her report that she believed that the kids were experiencing spiritual and emotional distress as her reasoning for doing it.

59:10

How is it the mom's fault?

59:12

Well, I mean, she's skeptical of what's happening.

59:15

So she thinks there's some type of something that Latoya is doing to our kids.

59:20

That's causing the yeah.

59:22

What a Right. Yeah. I know.

59:24

I Know her kids love her.

59:26

Like they love their mother. They're super close.

59:29

We needing her support more than ever while they're going through this terrifying situation.

59:35

Yeah. Oh my God. So they split the family up.

59:38

Great. Split the family up.

59:40

And they're obviously very sad.

59:41

Latoya's feeling very defeated in this and not knowing what to do, but then she actually got some unexpected help.

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So by some miracle, while they're at the hospital, the hospital chaplain caught wind of what was going on.

1:04:27

And that's when he actually called father Michael Maggiano, who went by father Mike in order to come talk to them and his family, the chaplain explained that the nine-year-old boy was possessed by an evil spirit and likely needed an exorcism.

1:04:41

However, father Mike had no experience with something like this, but he still met with Latoya and Rosa after mass that Sunday, and then actually agreed to go back to their house to check things out.

1:04:51

Father Mike talked to the two women for two hours, and then they showed him the boot prints that had been left in the living room by the shadowy figure from the previous nights, while this was going on, the bathroom lights started flickering father Mike obviously noticed it and started walking toward the light and it stopped.

1:05:10

He then inspected it and was sure that the light was off.

1:05:13

But then as soon as he walked away, the flickering came back and this happened several more times.

1:05:19

He also said he felt an unsettling presence and said that the light was being controlled by an evil spirit.

1:05:24

That was afraid of him.

1:05:26

After the light flickering incident, the blinds in the kitchen started moving.

1:05:30

No windows were open. There was no events near the windows that could be blowing air, causing them to move.

1:05:35

They just started randomly moving.

1:05:38

Latoya told the priest that she had a terrible headache and he decided to do an experiment and put a crucifix against her forehead.

1:05:45

And as soon as he did this, she started convulsing.

1:05:49

So he pulled it away.

1:05:52

He was in the house for four hours total and he determined that there was a presence there that needed to be exercised.

1:05:59

He also thought the presence had attached itself to Latoya.

1:06:03

He went around and sprinkled holy water and said a prayer before he left, as he left, he was also able to convince Latoya and Rosa to stay with a family member because he deemed that the house was not safe.

1:06:13

Now, Valerie, the caseworker met the women at the house a few weeks later for an inspection.

1:06:18

And she insisted that a police officer come along and two other officers from the other departments joined the inspection as well as they had actually heard the story about the haunted house, the possess family.

1:06:28

And they wanted to see it for themselves because at this point it was starting at word was starting to kind of get out a little bit that there's this house where all this crazy activities happening.

1:06:37

So people, you know, had heard about the demon house.

1:06:40

One of the officers was Charles Austin, who was the captain of the Garry police department.

1:06:45

He had been at the house a month before for a welfare check when it was reported that the kids had missed a lot of school.

1:06:50

And when he went into the house that day saw crucifixes candles and Bibles everywhere.

1:06:54

So he knew something really strange was happening.

1:06:57

He believed in ghosts, but not an evil demons, but he said, he definitely felt an evil presence.

1:07:03

While in the house, Latoya asked father Mike to be there during the child services inspection for moral support and in case anything supernatural happened.

1:07:12

And when they all arrived, Latoya lost her nurse.

1:07:15

She refused to go into the house.

1:07:16

So Rosa actually had to take all of them inside.

1:07:19

She showed them the spot where they believed the presence came from, and it was a dirt floor underneath the stairs, leading down to the basement, which is very weird altogether.

1:07:29

They were in the basement for about 15 minutes.

1:07:32

And several strange things happened.

1:07:34

There was a door that led into a separate room.

1:07:36

And one officer noticed that the door was in a different position.

1:07:39

Each time he looked at it, but no one had gone into the room.

1:07:42

So it was like, how did the door get like that?

1:07:44

The officer questioning Rosa turned on an audio recorder to tape her answers, but it wouldn't record it.

1:07:50

Cause it turned out the batteries were dead, even though they were brand new batteries that were put in the same day, which that is a pretty common thing that happens that electronic devices just stop working batteries, drain in places with lots of energy going on.

1:08:07

Yeah. We've experienced that in this studio for sure.

1:08:10

Yes. Yes we have.

1:08:12

They eventually got another recorder and they were able to record the conversations that were going on.

1:08:18

But later when they played back the tape, they heard a voice whispering and it was really clear, like someone was actually speaking right into the microphone of the recorder.

1:08:30

How Now, While they're there, they also took photos.

1:08:32

And when reviewing them later, a photo of the basement stairs had a strange white spot in one corner.

1:08:37

So they enhanced the picture and saw that the spot had a face.

1:08:41

They also saw a green spot that looked like the figure of a woman.

1:08:45

Captain Austin took photos with his iPhone and later saw that they revealed shadowy figures.

1:08:50

They looked like outlines of people walking around the house, which obviously lined up with what the family had, had actually seen before.

1:08:57

They had seen these terrifying shadowy figures and they believed that these were demons.

1:09:02

As the captain was leaving the basement. He saw a foil pan with a candle under the stairs and it looked like the remnants of some type of ritual.

1:09:10

So we started to worry that somebody who had lived in the house prior had somehow conjured or open this portal to hell.

1:09:18

So to speak. What's crazy is that when the captain of the police department left the house, he drove a mile away, pulled over at a gas station.

1:09:27

He then made a phone call and was talking when the radio in his car turned to static and the radio was at full volume.

1:09:35

And he said, he heard a threatening voice, say you in there.

1:09:41

Wow. And the other person on the phone heard it too crazy.

1:09:45

That's so insane. And that's another really common thing static, But

1:09:50

that wasn't all, when he got home, his garage door wouldn't open, even though it was working just fine.

1:09:55

Earlier that day, the next time he drove his car, the driver's seat moved back and forth on its own.

1:10:02

Literally just like moved like this.

1:10:04

He went to a mechanic and got it checked out.

1:10:06

And they told him that if he hadn't had gotten this fixed so quickly, that it likely would have caused a crash that may have injured him seriously or killed him.

1:10:14

Oh my God. After this happens, he really started to think that maybe I shouldn't have gone into that house at all, because something may have attached to him and was causing some of the weird things that he started experiencing.

1:10:27

Also some of the other officers who were inside the house were so afraid that they actually ended up just leaving the police force, quit their jobs, and even moved away from Gary Indiana.

1:10:37

You got to think that he was probably going crazy, trying to figure out what was going on with him.

1:10:42

And he was very convinced that it had something to do with what they found under the stairs, that it was likely some type of conjuring that occurred.

1:10:50

That's brought forth all these evil spirits, but during the child services investigation, officials asked Latoya why the kids miss so much school.

1:10:58

And when she said the spirits would make them sick and keep them up all night, they were very concerned.

1:11:04

Her older son and daughter were actually placed in an emergency shelter for kids and families.

1:11:08

And our younger son was sent to a psychiatric facility where he could undergo more intense evaluation.

1:11:13

God, those poor. I know, I know he was evaluated by psychologist, Stacy, right?

1:11:18

And at first the conversation was normal.

1:11:20

But when she asked him about the haunting or demons, he gave nonsensical answers.

1:11:25

And when she tried to push them further, he changed the story to a version that was just as illogical.

1:11:31

His answers were different. Every time she repeated a question, he constantly changed the subject to ask bizarrely, morbid questions back at her.

1:11:38

Like, can you die? If you go to space, just weird things like that.

1:11:43

Stacy didn't think he was psychotic.

1:11:45

She believed he was being influenced by his mother's delusions.

1:11:48

And his behavior were reinforced by her and other adults when they believed his stories, which would give him more attention, which he liked.

1:11:57

And he would continue to act out it's terrible, which could be a possibility of what's going on.

1:12:03

It could be the other kids were evaluated by psychologist, Joel shorts.

1:12:07

And he agreed with Stacy's assessment that they were indeed being affected by their mother's delusions.

1:12:14

He recommended that Latoya's daughter undergo a more in depth evaluation because she seemed especially affected by her mother's religious beliefs.

1:12:23

So that's where this case is really split is a lot of people believe that this is a case of mental illness and that one person is affecting others.

1:12:32

Kind of like a mass hysteria type of situation where one's freaking out so much that the next starts freaking out then before you know, it everybody's freaking out.

1:12:40

Right. Again, it doesn't explain the walking up the walls, doesn't explain a lot of the footprints and things like that.

1:12:45

So that's where it's kind of like, well maybe it's both maybe Really

1:12:49

gets me, is that multiple professionals saw him walking up the wall.

1:12:54

I mean, what are they all making?

1:12:57

And the police, the captain Austin. I mean, he had strange things happening to them.

1:13:01

Is that as a result of Latoya's mental illness or something.

1:13:06

Yeah. That's, that's, doesn't really make sense. That's the only thing going on.

1:13:09

Also during these evaluations, the kids talked about going into trances, blacking out, seeing shadowy figures in their home and doors and objects moving around on their own.

1:13:18

And all three were convinced that demons were to blame and all their stories matched up.

1:13:23

Child services. Officials gave Latoya supervised visits with her kids, but she wasn't allowed to discuss demonic possession or anything related to the haunting.

1:13:32

And discipline had to be completely separated from religion.

1:13:35

And in order to get her kids back, she needed to find work and a new place to live that the kids didn't believe was infested with demons.

1:13:42

And that was like the conditions, stress, obviously Latoya is just absolutely a wreck this entire time without her kids.

1:13:49

And it made finding a job very difficult, but she started working on that right away.

1:13:54

Cause she wanted to get her kids back.

1:13:56

The police and DCS visited the house again for an inspection.

1:13:59

And this time Valerie refused to go and she was traumatized by what she had witnessed in the hospital.

1:14:04

And she still had no rational explanation for a little boy walking up the wall and across the ceiling, this affected her so much that she actually quit her job with the department of child services.

1:14:17

Soon after that hospital event and left Gary Indiana altogether as well.

1:14:21

I mean that tells You so multiple People.

1:14:24

Yeah. Captain Austin went to the house with two other police officers again, and they met Latoya Rosen, father Mike and their new DCS caseworker, Samantha Illich, and most of the group went straight to the basement, the supposed source of the paranormal activity in the house.

1:14:38

But Samantha noticed a thick liquid dripping from the ceiling.

1:14:41

And when she touched it, she said it was slick, but not sticky.

1:14:46

Ah, there's no way I would touch it to find out what it was like.

1:14:49

Oh no, no, no. And the men all looked all over there trying to figure out where's this liquid coming from, but they could not find a source father Mike and the police officers wanted to go see what was under the stairs for themselves.

1:15:00

I mean, they're expecting to see, you know, a dead body or, you know, remains or a pentagram or something, you know, that would indicate there is some type of ritual that had happened or something terrible had just taken place in the basement.

1:15:13

So an officer dug a large hole in the dirt about four feet down.

1:15:17

And when they did, they found a bunch of random objects, which is kind of creepy.

1:15:21

They found a press on pink fingernail, a pair of white women's underwear, a comb, a red 10 to children's socks with the bottoms, cutoff, candy wrappers, a shirt pin, and a heavy metal bar.

1:15:38

So somebody had buried these objects under the stair Is

1:15:43

so fucking scary To

1:15:46

me that that screamed something ritualistic.

1:15:49

Yeah, For sure. Totally. I

1:15:51

don't know what ritual that would be, but it's not a good one.

1:15:54

That's for sure. After pulling these objects out, they filled the hole and then father Mike spread blessed salt around the area, as well as all around the basement.

1:16:03

And then the group went back upstairs to keep looking around.

1:16:06

The officers found that slick, oily substance on the blinds.

1:16:09

And one of the bedrooms that had had been there before the oil was actually coming from between the slats.

1:16:16

And like before they checked everywhere and they couldn't find a source for this liquid, Okay.

1:16:21

This house needs to be like bulldozed completely.

1:16:25

That's pretty much what happens. Yeah.

1:16:27

That's how bad it gets.

1:16:29

So they photograph the liquid, they cleaned off the blinds, they shut the door, they put a Q-tip in the door to make sure no one could go in without them knowing.

1:16:35

And they left for about 40 minutes while the priest blessed the house.

1:16:40

And when they came back, the Q-tip was right where they left it.

1:16:42

But the oily substance was back on the blinds.

1:16:46

They're absolutely positive that no one had been in that room and there was nothing coming from outside the house, through the window or the ceiling.

1:16:53

So they had no idea what it was.

1:16:55

That's kind of a good trick. That Q-tip thing.

1:16:58

Yeah. Never heard of that. I mean, if it's a Q-tip it could be a lot of different types of objects, but just something to signal to you, whether or not something changes.

1:17:08

Yeah. Samantha actually reached out and touched this oily liquid on the blinds with her left hand.

1:17:12

And she said that the skin from her fingertips all the way to her wrist turned white, like a ghost like that pun.

1:17:20

And that literally all the blood seemed to drain away from her hand when she touched this liquid, whatever it was, she also felt a terrible pain in her pinky finger.

1:17:30

It felt all tingly. And it felt like it had just been smashed under a heavyweight or that it had been broken.

1:17:38

Holy shit, just from touching this liquid.

1:17:40

So whatever the hell is, look, what is this like demon puke, like Brave

1:17:43

trying to figure this out. I would be so far away from all of this.

1:17:47

No way I could handle anything like this.

1:17:50

I be It's crazy. And then literally a few minutes after touching it, she has a full on panic attack has to go outside, refuses to come back in.

1:17:59

Cause she's probably like, oh my God, what?

1:18:00

Just, what just happened to my hand?

1:18:03

I'm Done with this. Yeah.

1:18:05

So shortly after all this went down, Latoya felt this familiar headache she had when she was inside of the house, the pain shot into her shoulders and she'd had enough and went outside with Samantha as well.

1:18:17

Captain Austin, who's a very seasoned police officer.

1:18:20

Who's investigated cold-blooded killers, violent rapists he's even been shot at in the line of duty, but literally nothing scared him like it being in this house.

1:18:31

And there's actually some clips of him talking about this All

1:18:35

of a sudden, while I'm involved in this conversation, the AMF and radio went to stat and turned up very loud.

1:18:43

And he said, you in there and the personal phone say, what the hell was that?

1:18:49

And I said, I don't know.

1:18:52

I feel that it's some very bad going on there.

1:18:56

Captain Austin then went outside as the sun was going down and he to refuse to be inside the house after dark father, Mike stepped onto the porch.

1:19:04

While captain Austin was checking on Samantha, he stopped and stared straight ahead.

1:19:07

And his face turned white as a sheet.

1:19:10

The captain called out father what's wrong.

1:19:13

And the priest answered calmly, the blinds are dripping.

1:19:19

Oh no, no, no, no.

1:19:21

So after the second go round for father Mike, he's like, all right, we got to get an exorcism in here, Pronto, because this is just getting crazy.

1:19:30

So in the Catholic church, there is a whole order to making this happen.

1:19:34

You actually have to go up the chain in the Catholic church to get a exorcism issued.

1:19:42

Basically it has to be like approved before the somebody will actually come out and do an exorcism.

1:19:47

And there has to be proof.

1:19:49

Yes, yes, there Is. Yes. And there are still to this day, modern exorcists there's a great, I think vice interview with a modern Exorcist out there, who's still doing exorcisms.

1:20:01

It's really actually really interesting stuff.

1:20:04

So father Mike, he has to get permission from the Bishop of the diocese of Gary and the Bishop had been in this diocese for 21 years and had never given anyone permission to perform an exorcism.

1:20:15

So at first, when father Mike asked the request was denied and the Bishop told him to talk to other priests first who may have experienced these kinds of things before.

1:20:23

So when he went and talked to some of these other priests, they recommended that he do basically a minor exorcism there's other rituals that they can do that are not a full-blown exorcism and they didn't need to be approved by the Bishop.

1:20:37

But the purpose of this particular ritual was to basically agitate the demons and hope that they might leave, which seems like a very bad idea to stoke and poke the demons in order to get them, stoke them up and kick them out.

1:20:52

But obviously when you do this, there's a chance that you could anger them and things could go really bad or put people in danger.

1:20:59

Father, Mike literally researched how to perform this ritual on the internet.

1:21:03

And once he felt like he was confident in doing it, he got the ball rolling.

1:21:07

So first he met Latoya at the house and he did what he called an intense blessing.

1:21:11

And then there were met by two police officers as well.

1:21:13

Samantha, the caseworker even came out for this and for two hours, father Mike said, prayers.

1:21:18

He recited scripture and ordered the demons to leave her at once.

1:21:23

I'm surprised Samantha came back out.

1:21:26

I mean, she's a brave good for her.

1:21:29

I mean, she's skeptical though. She's very skeptical about what's going on.

1:21:34

Even after that little thing, She

1:21:37

knows what's happened to her, right.

1:21:40

But most people don't believe in demons. So you're just like, what the hell is going on?

1:21:44

Right. She wants to know, try to figure out what's going on.

1:21:47

Yeah. The answers would drive me to be anywhere near that shit.

1:21:49

I just cannot imagine. Well, it gave her chills.

1:21:53

The whole little minor exorcism gave her chills and everyone who witnessed the ritual felt like there was another presence in the room that wasn't any of them.

1:22:01

It was as if they were being watched super closely by someone who's super pissed off that like wanting to hurt them.

1:22:07

Oh

1:22:07

my

1:22:09

God. So after this minor exorcism was completed.

1:22:11

Father Mike told the toy to pay close attention to how she felt.

1:22:15

He also said that the ritual would have more power.

1:22:16

If they could name the demons, demons have individual personalities and each have their own preferred methods for torturing people in their souls.

1:22:26

So Latoya and a friend spent hours online, researching demons and finding the names of those that fit with their experiences.

1:22:32

And I'm not going to utter these demons names because I have done this in the past.

1:22:36

And I am concerned that perhaps that may have something to do with the activity in here, is that what you're nearing lights out.

1:22:42

I have uttered a number of different demons names after the fact I realized that probably wasn't a good idea because if you call out to them, sometimes they find their way to you.

1:22:54

So basically started figuring, you know, they start Latoya started looking into different demons and you know, they have different personalities and things that they do.

1:23:01

And one of this particular demons is known to be Lord of the flies.

1:23:06

So it started kind of registering with her like, oh, maybe the swarms of flies.

1:23:10

I, I saw, Why

1:23:12

was this demon known to be Lord of the flies?

1:23:15

How do they know that People

1:23:17

that have experiences with this particular demon oftentimes have swarms of flies that show up unexpectedly.

1:23:25

So they all, they all have their sort of different things.

1:23:27

So some of the demons could be a particular demon could have something to do with the liquid that's coming out.

1:23:33

Like they have their own sort of traits that they exhibit when they are manifesting themselves.

1:23:40

But while the Toya was researching this particular demon, the computer actually kept shutting down for no reason.

1:23:44

She said Chelsea has felt sick the entire time she was researching it.

1:23:48

She was very dizzy and lightheaded and had to take several breaks.

1:23:51

And when her symptoms that she was experiencing continued father Mike was finally able to get permission from the Bishop in order to perform a full exorcism, which was more powerful than the minor, right.

1:24:02

That he had already performed.

1:24:04

Now, father Mike, not the most experienced person on exorcisms.

1:24:08

I mean, do you even know how to do the minor? Right. He had to look it up on the internet and he claims to have performed three exorcisms on Latoya in June, 2012, all at his church.

1:24:20

So, which is interesting to me, there's definitely, I don't know.

1:24:22

I don't know. I think there's some information missing there cause I'm like the Bishop okayed a priest that had never done a exorcism before to do three exorcisms on Latoya.

1:24:34

Something's not adding up there. I've always, I've always had questions around that.

1:24:37

But then again, all, all stuff related to exorcisms and the church are very hush, hush.

1:24:42

There's a lot of like, it's very secret.

1:24:45

You know, the, the Catholic church in a lot of ways is like a secret society.

1:24:48

If you really think about it, they keep everything very tight.

1:24:52

And especially when it comes to this kind of stuff, it's all very on a need to know basis.

1:24:57

For sure. So during these exorcisms, there was actually police officers who witnessed them, but Samantha said, hell no, I'm not going to witness these exorcisms.

1:25:06

And she refused to work on the case anymore at that point.

1:25:10

So she was like, I'm a fuck that shit out.

1:25:14

I do the same Thing. So again, father Mike, he said his prayers, recited scripture, he's doing all of the exorcism things.

1:25:20

He's, you know, trying to instigate, try to get this demon riled up in order to basically cast, cast the demon out.

1:25:27

He's putting the crucifix against Latoya's head in order to do so.

1:25:31

And as he spoke, Latoya can volts and the convulsions got more violent as he continued.

1:25:37

It seemed as if the demons were fighting back because at this point I think it's pretty obvious that Latoya is possessed.

1:25:43

I mean, she's possessed by some force that is causing her to have all these symptoms to convulse when having the crucifix press to her head.

1:25:52

And Latoya tried to pray with the priest, but praying costs such intense pain throughout her body that she eventually had to stop.

1:25:58

And she literally explained that this pain was more intense than childbirth.

1:26:06

Holy shit. Having a demon cast out of you, you was more painful than childbirth, which I don't think there's anything more painful than natural childbirth.

1:26:14

It was something deep inside of her being like ripped out.

1:26:19

And that it was like, as it's like coming out, it's like clinging to the insides of your body.

1:26:27

So

1:26:29

Imagine like A nasty little being, being inside your body, scraping the inner walls.

1:26:36

Yeah. Yes. Poor Woman. Yeah. Literally. And it got so bad that after a while she eventually passed out and later she said the presence inside her forced her to fall asleep in order to help make the ritual less effective.

1:26:48

The priest took a break of several days or weeks in between each of the three exorcisms because it was that taxing and exhausting for Latoya and painful.

1:26:56

And she obviously needed time to rest up and heal in between them.

1:27:00

During this time, Latoya and Rosa found a place to live in Indianapolis and father Mike came and blessed her new home.

1:27:06

And before the last exorcism, Latoya was suffering with terrifying nightmares.

1:27:11

She called father Mike who's out of town on a retreat.

1:27:14

And luckily he had a backup plan to help her.

1:27:16

His assistant had written the name of a demon on a piece of paper, put it in an envelope and put a ring of blessed salt around it.

1:27:23

And if Latoya had these nightmares, the assistant was instructed to perform a ritual where she burned the envelope and the noted side, save the ashes and put them in a bonfire at the church.

1:27:34

And once this ritual was completed, apparently Latoya's nightmare stopped and never came back toward the end of June.

1:27:40

Father Mike performed the final exorcism in Latin, which made it even more powerful than the first two, which were done in English.

1:27:47

And this time the priest asked his brother to witness the ritual and standby in case help was needed.

1:27:52

And this final one, there is no police officers there at all.

1:27:56

This final exorcism was very intense, but instead of getting progressively worse throughout the duration of it, Latoya's symptoms actually got better.

1:28:04

And by the very end, she stopped convulsing as a priest said the final prayer.

1:28:09

But as soon as that was done, she passed out and he said, words of Thanksgiving and ended the ritual Thanksgiving.

1:28:17

Yeah.

1:28:17

Like,

1:28:17

oh,

1:28:19

Thanking, he pulled a Turkey out and they started carving none.

1:28:24

No, sorry. But after this final exorcism, Latoya stopped experiencing all of her paranormal symptoms and she never needed another exorcism out for this.

1:28:34

It was as if the demons had left her, she got her kids back that November and they moved into their new home in Indianapolis.

1:28:43

They had been separated from their mother for six months.

1:28:46

So obviously the kids were just ecstatic to see their mom again.

1:28:50

And she said it was the happiest she'd ever been to Jesus.

1:28:53

The amount of trauma this family went through during this time.

1:28:58

And luckily when they moved into their new home, they never experienced anything supernatural whatsoever.

1:29:04

And they had another caseworker, actually a new one who last saw the family in January 10th, 2013.

1:29:09

And she wrote quote, no demonic.

1:29:13

Presences are spirits in the home. And this was actually put in their report.

1:29:16

And eventually the case was actually closed in February, 2013.

1:29:20

But there are literally over 800 pages of official records about this haunting, including reports from child services, the police, as well as interviews with police officers, caseworker, psychologists, father Mike, and the family.

1:29:33

When Latoya released these records to the Indianapolis star in 2014, she gave the medical reports as well as all the reports from psychologists.

1:29:40

But her only condition was that the children's names would remain anonymous, which I think was a very smart move on her part so that her kids aren't forever tied to this, this whole incident and this house.

1:29:55

But a lot of what's written in these records is not flattering for her, her competency as a mother and her mental state were questioned multiple times, officials suggested she might be neglecting or abusing her kids, but she still released them.

1:30:08

She still released these reports that had this information in it.

1:30:11

And she's explained that she knows what her family experienced was real.

1:30:14

And she believes it was God who got them out of it.

1:30:16

And a lot of people have accused Latoya of making all this up, obviously.

1:30:22

And she's been outspoken about what she's experienced and she wants people to know the truth, Accuse

1:30:27

her of making this up. You've got an accuse, everyone that was part of this investigation for other Mike Samantha.

1:30:35

I'm the chief hospital, the hospital.

1:30:40

Multiple caseworkers. Yeah.

1:30:41

It's like doctor. So you'd have to say, you know, if you think maybe there are parts that are not necessarily authentic, but I agree with you.

1:30:51

I think if you're going to say total bullshit, then you got to say that all these people are all in on it and they're all just making shit up.

1:31:00

No, there is nothing.

1:31:01

No, for what she, it's not like she got million dollars for faking this or like sold it.

1:31:08

I'm not Skeptical at all about this One.

1:31:10

I think the skepticism also comes as a result of Zak.

1:31:16

Bagans getting involved, which Zach I'm actually a fan.

1:31:20

I like the guy. Do I believe everything that he does on the show is real?

1:31:25

No, but I think he's a great Entertainer.

1:31:27

He owns the haunted museum in Vegas.

1:31:30

He's got a ton of haunted objects. He's known to go and buy haunted houses onto the objects.

1:31:36

And that's exactly what he did. He wanted to come and make a duck.

1:31:39

He heard about the story. Obviously he was like blown away.

1:31:42

And let me, let me actually just play a clip of him talking about this a little bit.

1:31:46

Cause it's actually kind of interesting to hear his perspective.

1:31:49

I was intrigued by how many credible sources there were to experience things.

1:31:53

And these were with people that didn't have anything to gain by coming out and saying this, these were police officers, chiefs of police from three different jurisdictions, child protective services, everyone.

1:32:07

But captain Charles Austin with the Garry police department looked at me in my eyes.

1:32:12

And he said, the forces inside this house affect men electronically and women physically.

1:32:20

So the reason why I wanted to play that clip is because it kind of, this kind of takes us into the last section of, of sort of this episode where we talk about Zak Bagans experience in the house.

1:32:31

He made this film called demon house, which a lot of people are like, obviously Zach's coming in to try to capitalize off this story and make a sensitive and make an interesting, you know, try to try to, well, he approached the film as a documentary.

1:32:45

He was really trying to make a documentary. Let's try to make a paranormal documentary is very, very hard, but I can see why he wanted to do that.

1:32:52

Considering there were elements of this that can be proven right in, he got interviews with the police, with everybody spoke in it.

1:33:01

But where I think he kind of went wrong a little bit, because again, this film has 33% rotten tomatoes or something like that.

1:33:07

Yeah. I got told, like, I would say most people watched it and were like, eh, like this just kinda like ruined the whole thing and kind of really didn't help the family with their experience a bit.

1:33:21

Yeah. Because it also became about Zack and here's why, so it really got wild because Zach claims that the demon that's in this house is this goat man figure, which Zach claims to have been visited by in a nightmare that he had, where he was apparently hanging out with spirits.

1:33:44

And in the dream, he saw a 12 foot tall goat in an open doorway in this dream, this goat man for Zach to inhale black smoke that came from its mouth.

1:33:54

And when he woke up, he said his lungs were in pain and he could barely breathe.

1:33:58

And he claims that this all happened before even heard about Latoya's story.

1:34:05

But within days of having this dream, it was everywhere.

1:34:09

The story of Latoya was everywhere and that's how he heard about it.

1:34:12

And that's when he started making phone calls and he ended up buying the house.

1:34:17

Zach went and bought Latoya's house.

1:34:19

Oh, well I guess there is a buyer out there for every house.

1:34:23

Yep. Zack bought it for 35,000 bucks.

1:34:27

That's a, that is a deal. Honestly. I don't know if I could pass that up.

1:34:30

I would, I'd be interested in that too, but you would never let me do that.

1:34:35

So never, never, never.

1:34:37

So he bought it from the current owner.

1:34:39

So after Latoya left the house, and this was really when the story broke was when she had already moved to Indianapolis, the owner, Charles Reed sold it to Zack.

1:34:50

And because Charles was like, I can't do anything with it.

1:34:52

It's haunted as fuck. And now it's got like, you know, people, random homeless people coming in and squatting it and stuff like that.

1:35:00

So Zack bought it for cheap and he got his crew together and he went out to Gary Indiana and start filming.

1:35:07

And he started working on this film demon house to try to do a paranormal investigation on it.

1:35:14

What's interesting is that shortly after buying the house, he got a call from a psychic medium named Chris Fleck.

1:35:19

And Chris Fleck had a very stern warning to Zach.

1:35:23

Chris said the house's guardian, the demonic guardian of this house was in fact, a 12 foot tall goat man who was truly an evil presence and that he should stay away.

1:35:35

Well, Zach was like, wait a minute.

1:35:38

I had a dream about this exact same figure you're speaking about.

1:35:42

So now I have to go investigate this house.

1:35:46

So again, this is, Zach has got a lot of people look at either Zach as a total fraud, trying to capitalize and stuff.

1:35:53

Zach claims, he's basically psychic.

1:35:56

He's got the ability to see spirits and he's in tune with all that.

1:36:00

I mean, he surrounds himself with haunted shit.

1:36:03

So you can take that for what it is. It could just be all a way to create a personality for yourself.

1:36:08

I mean, he's made a lot of money off of it.

1:36:10

He's famous because he's kind of this paranormal dude.

1:36:13

That's like, or he's legit.

1:36:15

I mean, I don't know him personally, so I don't judge him on that.

1:36:18

I take his word for it until, you know, obviously I know they fake shit on ghost adventures because they have to, and they pretty much admit that they do that in order to make the episodes more interesting.

1:36:28

Definitely. So it's hard. It's very hard.

1:36:30

It's hard to really know. What's true.

1:36:32

And what's not, He's

1:36:34

also been doing ghost adventures for like 12 years though.

1:36:36

Like he's been doing this for a long, long.

1:36:40

Yeah. Yours made his whole career around paranormal.

1:36:42

Now this haunted museum is like popping man, that place in Vegas.

1:36:46

Yeah. And this is why I wanted to go. I want to go there eventually is.

1:36:49

Cause he's got a lot of really interesting stuff that come from the most random, not just like cursed objects, but he's got clothing or items or paintings from serial killers to all sorts of different types of people.

1:37:05

I've promised Josh that I would go to this museum with him.

1:37:08

But I've got to say, I'm terrified to go in there.

1:37:11

It, I mean, Well you literally sign a waiver when you go in and you sign a waiver, but nobody everybody's fine.

1:37:17

People feel like little tab nobody's actually, they just had one person pass out in there, Freak

1:37:23

me out. I Think it was post Malone or something or, Oh

1:37:26

yeah. I remember That post Malone had a really weird experience And

1:37:29

he did. He opened the box.

1:37:33

I do Remember that, which is his most haunted Option.

1:37:36

That's in the, I don't want to go Near

1:37:39

that In the basement.

1:37:41

That's so scary.

1:37:43

It's like, what if something attaches to us when we leave the museum, I'm just terrified of That

1:37:49

post Malone do it. Cause he's post Malone. The Only

1:37:51

time I've ever been around haunted objects was at the Stanley hotel.

1:37:54

We did a tour and they had this one, they had a couple things.

1:37:57

But the thing that freaked me out the most was this haunted mirror that they say, if you look in it, you can see a face just being near this mirror gave me the worst feeling I've ever had in my life.

1:38:07

So I'll probably just be terrified the entire time, but I'll do it for you.

1:38:09

I love you.

1:38:11

Okay, fun. So Zach goes to the house, but he wants to interview Latoya and the family about it.

1:38:16

So he tried to track them down at their new home in Indianapolis.

1:38:20

He tried to call them several times, but Latoya never called him back.

1:38:23

Well, he wants nothing to do with it. She's like, I'm trying to get on with my life here, Back

1:38:28

into it for your film.

1:38:30

So he actually goes to Indianapolis and he knocks on her door and Latoya's brother Kevin answers and explains that Latoya and Rosa refused to talk to Zach because he had been in the house.

1:38:41

So they're worried that now whatever is in the house is attached to Zach and Zach could bring it to their new home.

1:38:47

They've been through enough, leave them. I

1:38:49

was also like, yeah, dude, What'd

1:38:51

you think of their house like That? Don't you think they're terrified of anybody that's still going into that house.

1:38:59

So yeah, he wasn't able to get Latoya in his film because they didn't want to take any or Rosa or anybody who's actually lived in the house, but Kevin agreed to talk.

1:39:09

Who's her brother. Right? So he actually drove around with Zach in the film and explained that his sister gave him strict instructions, not to ever set foot in the house.

1:39:17

And he actually talked about how the haunting effect his nephews and niece.

1:39:21

And he witnessed possession firsthand when they stayed with him for a few days.

1:39:25

In fact, he'd heard the sound of one of his nephews getting thrown across a room and crashing into a wall.

1:39:30

And another day to kids started to chant in his living room.

1:39:33

And it started with his youngest nephew and moved on from kid to kid.

1:39:37

He also witnessed his nephews fighting with their grandmother, attacking each other in the back seat, saying crazy, crazy things that young kids shouldn't say to their grandmother.

1:39:49

So you kinda gave him some of the information about, you know, what the, what Latoya's family had experienced for his film.

1:39:57

But what's crazy is that after Kevin met with Zach, they wouldn't let him back in the house.

1:40:01

We'll tell you when it, let him back in Really

1:40:05

her brother. Yeah. Did he ever get, I

1:40:08

believe, yeah, I believe so. I think he had to get cleanse first.

1:40:11

Yeah. But they didn't just laugh right after sitting with Zach, they didn't let him like just come right here.

1:40:17

Totally understand where she's coming from. I would be the same way.

1:40:19

Why would you take any more chances with what you've been through?

1:40:22

Stay the fuck away from me.

1:40:24

All like all of that just would not want anything to do with that ever again.

1:40:30

Exactly. She was worried something would transfer to Kevin.

1:40:36

So that's, and that's the other kind of point of contention is the fact that Latoya is not involved with this film at all.

1:40:41

Even though the whole story, pretty much centers around her, but now it's centering around Zach and his experience with this goat man.

1:40:48

So even though Latoya refused actually talked to Zach in 2014, Latoya and father Mike signed a movie deal with evergreen media holdings was Zack in order to put this film out.

1:40:59

So after talking to Kevin and hearing Latoya's family's version of events, he tracked down father Mike, captain, Austin, and others who had been in the house to get the rest of the story.

1:41:09

And they told him the terrifying details of the possessions, the haunting and exorcisms and the people who are squatting in the house, as well as the previous owner, Charles Reed all commented that there is no haunting in that house that the squatters and the new owner had not experienced anything at all.

1:41:25

I was wondering about That the people squatting there, did they have any issues and the previous owner?

1:41:31

Hmm. But, but that was just coming from Charles.

1:41:34

Now, Zach actually went in there and paid the squatters to leave.

1:41:37

And one of the men who are living there said that he had seen some shit, which I don't know what that exactly what that means.

1:41:43

But again, conflicting accounts here.

1:41:46

But Zach then found out that Latoya stepmother told the media that she and other members of the family were very upset that their names were being dragged into all of this.

1:41:54

And she denied that there was anything supernatural happening to Latoya and her kids, a photo had been linked online of a ghost in the house, his front window that upset the family even more because the house was supposedly empty when the photo was taken.

1:42:07

So creepy. Yeah.

1:42:09

There's a, some type of figure standing there Looking

1:42:13

at it is that verified, could that have been photo-shopped or edited in any way?

1:42:17

Do we know that that's a real photo?

1:42:20

It was leaked online. So we don't know for sure.

1:42:22

I mean, according to this photo, it says Hammond police department.

1:42:25

So perhaps it was a police photo that was taken, which I think is the case.

1:42:30

And after the fact, they noticed that in the picture and it leaked to the public somehow because it was the demon House,

1:42:37

His department, I mean, there's clearly something in there too.

1:42:40

So after the Zack decided to have the house inspected, which seems like a smart thing to do, right?

1:42:45

Well, the inspector found toxins like mold asbestos and carbon monoxide, which could have caused some of the symptoms like headaches, disorientation, and mood swings, Or

1:42:55

those things were in there because of the haunting in the house that Right.

1:42:59

Or because the house was seemingly in Bandon for a while.

1:43:02

And the kind of all got out of hand too, since there was, you know, squatters there and stuff, plus there was liquid Oozing

1:43:09

out could've created, who even knows what that was.

1:43:12

He knows, but just as he was starting to have doubts about the whole story with Latoya and everything, he met Mika and Mika had lived there in the nineties with her mother and she had brought her three kids to see the house and actually talked to Zach.

1:43:25

She told him when a friend of hers would stay at the house, she heard footsteps and people walking around who weren't there.

1:43:30

And as they walked around and talk, she told him she had never been in the basement before, but she agreed to go down with Zach and her kids.

1:43:37

When they got to the bottom of the steps, she immediately accused one of the kids of kicking her.

1:43:41

And when reviewing the video later, Zach saw her leg buckle, but no one had actually kicked her going down to the basement.

1:43:49

She then explained that her brother used to in the basement and that the back room was his bedroom.

1:43:54

And around that time she was having dreams that someone, she knew a die, but no one in her family would listen.

1:44:00

But soon after this, her brother was actually shot and killed.

1:44:03

So obviously kind of going back over this really upset her.

1:44:05

And she definitely want to get out of the basement.

1:44:08

Mika son told Zach he was really scared to be inside the house and asked if the ghost would follow them home.

1:44:13

And that's when Mika's microphone picked up a voice that said run Latoya.

1:44:21

Yeah. Oh No. So rather than just bulldozing the house at this point, Zach and his crew decided to set up an altar in the living room and in the basement.

1:44:29

Oh Fun. And then this is, for me, this was like where a lot of stuff is like, ah, you know, he's like sometimes he'll do the same where he randomly will like shove a crew member.

1:44:39

Like he says, he gets these angry, like feelings impulses over him.

1:44:43

And he starts like lashing out doing like crazy shit.

1:44:47

And like, so he said that this kind of stuff started happening and started freaking everybody else out on the crew, Shoved

1:44:53

a member and his crew and then told them to get the fuck out.

1:44:56

And this was captured on Saturday.

1:44:58

Yeah. And apparently afterwards, Zach had no memory of what had happened.

1:45:01

So similar to what Latoya or her kids had actually gone through.

1:45:05

But this was Zach now, which I don't know.

1:45:08

And when you watch it and be like, eh, I don't know there, that seemed a little, little dramatic there That's

1:45:14

the problem with some of these ghost hunting documentaries or shows is if they can't find anything interesting that's happening to use, they start making things up.

1:45:25

And that happens so often. And that's what makes me question some of this.

1:45:30

I, and I don't blame you. I mean, it's, we're, we're just programmed this way to be skeptical of things that we can't prove.

1:45:38

Right. We, we don't have tangible ways to prove and what's heavy and movies and films, whether you call it a documentary or not.

1:45:47

I mean, tons of documentaries kind of like add some stuff to try to make it a little bit more interesting to watch.

1:45:53

So, so who really knows, but apparently a neighbor called the cops about this whole incident because they thought someone was like trying to break into the house.

1:46:04

Eventually the cops came there and they were talking to them and all that, and it was this whole ordeal.

1:46:11

And some of the police officers that came didn't even want to go anywhere near the house because they were worried about what might follow them home.

1:46:18

But then the next day, Zach talked to Valerie Washington, the first caseworker for the family.

1:46:23

So there was a lot of different things that happened during the filming of demon house.

1:46:30

I mean, there's claims that people that came in left either feeling completely off or developing medical conditions, people were affected mentally.

1:46:41

I mean, it was just the whole filming of it was basically a terrible experience so much so that Zach believes that the film itself is cursed.

1:46:51

Of course, demon house is cursed film The

1:46:55

vegans I'm one of the world's leading researchers on ghosts and demonology and this film Is

1:47:03

cursed. So the film was actually released on March 16th, 2018, after listening to this, if you've never watched it before, I mean, it's, it's worth a watch to kind of like put some of the visuals to some of the things we talked about.

1:47:14

And also just so you can kind of make up for in your own mind, what you think about, about Zach and about Latoya's story and the house as a whole, but after filming Zach decided to have the house demolished.

1:47:26

And the reason for this he said was because he didn't want anyone else to get hurt.

1:47:29

As a result of this house, being there after tearing it down, they took most of the debris and buried it in a landfill.

1:47:37

But of course, Zach had to keep something from the house and what he kept was the basement stairs and some of the dirt, and then put it all in a storage unit.

1:47:46

After the house was demolished, the police actually got multiple complaints of people performing satanic rituals and the empty lot.

1:47:53

I guess when the house was up to there was like people that would go out and do like seances in the yard and stuff, as they're like demon house, you know, let's try to see, see if it's really exactly.

1:48:03

They're like, let's go over there and see if we can make contact with anything.

1:48:06

A lot of people though, in this town believe that this house was indeed built over a portal to hell or that a portal was opened inside of the home.

1:48:14

And they hope that whatever was in the home or this portal was closed when the building was actually torn down.

1:48:21

And I believe to this day, there's nothing.

1:48:24

There's no like activity still going on after the house is demolished.

1:48:28

People still go to the side of it and film it and everything of course, but that was pretty much kind of the end of the demon house and this seemingly portal of hell that was opened by somebody who had lived in the house at one point who had done a ritual.

1:48:43

It seemed like under the stairs.

1:48:45

But, but yeah, I mean, it's one of those where there's definitely a lot of evidence as far as witnesses go and their experiences, but then again, you know, we don't have the concrete proof that I think a lot of people would want in order to really affirm that this was all real and that this happened.

1:49:03

I totally get that. So yeah. What do you guys think?

1:49:06

Like, do you believe Latoya's story you think she really went through?

1:49:11

I do because wa I mean, what would be the point of making all this up and losing your child children first six months traumatizing them.

1:49:21

And the fact that all these other credible witnesses saw this stuff just makes me Experienced

1:49:28

stuff themselves as a result of just going into the house.

1:49:33

Right? So it's hard. It's very hard. Cause I do cause according to the reports and the evaluations done, they all point to Latoya having pretty severe mental illnesses that may have resulted in a lot of the, and perhaps her children being raised under this would have been affected by it.

1:49:53

But then again, I go back to Rosa, her mother who was with her the entire time, And

1:49:59

people saw the kid walking up the wall, you can't just fake that and train the kid to do some weird stunt and get them that, then you got to believe the kids are in on it too.

1:50:09

I don't know. I, this one, normally I'm skeptical, but of course there's elements of this story and how this has all played out that I'm skeptical about it.

1:50:16

But I really, I believe Latoya and her family and all these other people who saw this and the police.

1:50:22

I mean, I think there's too many people to just say that it's all bullshit.

1:50:26

Right. I really do. I think that there's some real experiences that happen here and a lot Of

1:50:31

interesting one. Yeah. Isn't It like, there's just a lot, lots of good.

1:50:34

We were like really scared me. Like I'm a little spooked.

1:50:36

I feel very cold right now, but I can't tell if that's just because it's Dr.

1:50:42

In a metal box in the middle of Cold

1:50:45

fall, but I definitely am getting that creepy feeling.

1:50:47

And I thought I was going to be more skeptical about this.

1:50:50

That's why I wanted to cover it on my heart. Cause it's one of those that actually has decent media coverage actually has interviews that actually has police Involved.

1:51:00

Yeah, it really does. It really does. But with that being said, we want to know what your guys' thoughts are.

1:51:05

Of course, on the story of the demon house and the terrible experience Latoya went through while living there.

1:51:12

We want to know if you get to think this is authentic, or if you think that perhaps this was fake, somehow, if you think this was all faked or hoaxed, I'd love to know how you think this happened, how, you know, were they all in cahoots together?

1:51:25

I mean, I don't think there was that much money that was made as a result of demon house and all that.

1:51:29

So it's hard. I don't really see the moment or the motives, sorry.

1:51:33

My brain is absolutely mush after this week, but anyway, I hope you guys enjoyed that episode.

1:51:39

I, I certainly did find that very interesting, But

1:51:41

we'll go ahead and wrap up today's episode there.

1:51:43

If you enjoyed this episode of Mahara podcast, definitely let us know, make sure you subscribe YouTube and apple podcasts.

1:51:49

We'd really appreciate it.

1:51:50

You back next week with another episode of the malware podcast, but until then, keep on taking your mind.

1:51:55

Hey. What's going on, everybody? Welcome Back to mile higher podcast episode 180 today is going to be kind of an interesting to My Hire podcast episode one eighty. Today is going to be kind of an interesting episode. We had sort of a shift in our plan for our episode today. We are gonna be talking about the Ammons family haunting, which you guys have been requesting some spooky Manhunt. I know in years past pretty much every year we do in a whole a whole month of paranormal hunting you know, spooky stuff that goes with Halloween. However, we have been following a lot of cases right now and and focusing our energy more on that. And also going through a lot mentally that we just didn't have I I feel like I didn't really have the energy to fully do a month of Halloween content, you know, and we felt like there were other more important things for us to focus on this Laundrie did want to give you guys one episode because we know you guys love to hear about hauntings, paranormal, Laundrie that's one of Josh's favorite subjects. So we really wanted to do this as well. Had to get at least one in before getting October. Otherwise, it's just a complete I know. I think based off this month. And I feel like we need to change up because we have been doing a lot of true crime, and I know people are also feeling very heavy about a lot of cases that are going on right now is just a very strange time. And so we were going to be well, we are going to be going through this haunting However, Josh is gonna be guiding us through it for the most part because I have been focused all day on a huge update in Manhunt for Brian Laundrie. And I wanted to start this episode talking off talking about that. And that's why even though it's Halloween and we normally have COGWebs and we put costumes on and stuff maybe. We just feel that's really inappropriate on True Crime content to be in a a costume, and that's why especially talking about something so sensitive as the -- Yeah. -- daddy's potato case. Absolutely. Just not the time or place to do that. Yeah. And unfortunately, this is the last episode going up this month in October. And then it'll just be, you know, waiting till next year, I guess. Yeah. For more maybe we can do more of that next year. I know people do really enjoy that. But we are going to, like I said, cover that haunting, but we're gonna start this episode off talking about the latest update on Brian Laundry. So obviously, we are just getting this breaking news today, which is October twentieth that we are recording. And at this point, I'm gonna tell you what we know. However, new information could come out in the next couple of days by the time this episode goes live. If there's anything major, I will probably insert a voice over at some point during this update. But if not, we will pin a comment, post on social media, put something on our community tab, if there is confirmation on all of this. So this began about nine hours ago today This morning, it was announced that some articles belonging to Brian Laundry had been found in the reserve, the Carlton reserve according to the Laundry Ammons, a Turney, Steven Bertolino. Chris and Roberto Laundrie went to the Mayakachi Creek environmental park this morning to search for Brian the FBI and NPPD were informed last night of Brian's parents intentions, and they met with Chris and Roberta there this morning. After a brief search on the trail that Brian frequented, some articles belonging to Brian were found. As of now, law enforcement is conducting a more thorough investigation of that area. So of course, this caused quite a buzz online and everyone wanted to know what was going on. Ammons of media started flying over the scene no one could be allowed in, so everyone was trying to figure out what was going on. And eventually, it was seen that there was crime scene tape there as well. And command center vehicles started showing up. Government vehicles started showing up. And when they put the tents up, you always know that there's something that they don't want you to or they found something that they don't want. Yep. And I was, you know, remaining hopeful at that point thinking maybe it's just the items, whatever. We didn't know anything else. Then a few hours later, there was an update from the FBI saying that items of interest were located in the Carlton reserve this morning in connection with the search for Brian Laundrie. An FBI evidence response team is processing the scene, the reserve is closed to the public, No further details are available at this time. And then it came out that a senior law enforcement official told NBC News that what appeared to be partial remains had been found in the Carlton reserve in an area that was previously underwater. These remains were found near a back pack consistent with items that Brian Laundry may have had. So a press conference was announced very quickly after this. I'm not sure if that information was supposed to be released that quickly, but it seemed like they wanted to confirm the details. And they pulled together a press conference in, like, an at couple hours. It was at four thirty eastern time. And it was very brief. They didn't take any questioning. They had a prepared statement. And not much more came out through this press conference. Like I said, by the time you're watching this, I'm sure there will be more. But right now, all they have told us is that investigators did find human remains, partial human remains, and a backpack, and also a notebook belonging to Brian Laundry. And they also did not confirm that it actually is Brian Laundrie, but they said that they were gonna be out there for a few days and that it's gonna be a little while until they do make any confirmation. Like, that'll give us any more information. And it's very curious because the laundry parents were actually out there today. And Chris, we know his father had been at they'll reserve before already, but this was the first day as far as I understand that his mother actually was out there. So there's been a lot of confusion about where they called out there specifically, or did they just decide to search that day and Ammons to be there when these things were found? Or did they find things and then bring them in? But there were photographs of them taken, what appears to be looking at items Yeah. And it's also interesting too that this area where this backpack and remains are found was underwater until -- Yeah. -- very recently. Right. So it seems that the water has receded because, again, this is a swamp basically. So water goes up and down depending on Right. Rainfall and just, you know, different environmental factors in this Which is something we've been discussing since the beginning, the possibility of it just being too hard to find him due to rising water levels, there was a big storm at one point during all of this. And to go back to what I was seeing in that photo of his parents this morning, you can see an like an FBI agent has got his hand kinda on his father's shoulder and it looked to me like they were comforting them. So sounds like what they found is they they're confident that it does belong to Brian. It's all similar to the chances that the remains found near that are gonna not be hit. Well, and the remains are literally in an area of the reserve that the parents told them to look. Exactly. like. This was an area Brian was known to hang out at, in the reserve, which is interesting because it makes you wonder, did the FBI or the police know this entire time that he could be in this this was an area that Biden was known to hang out out in the reserve. And it Which is interesting because it makes you wonder Did the FBI or the police know this entire time that he could be in this area? Maybe they went to the area and because it was underwater at the time they just didn't find anything. Right. But it took the water receding in order to to uncover his remains. Well, and it all makes sense. And going back to what we've said in previous episodes, you know, we were saying, you'd hope that they had something out there, some reason to believe He was out there with the amount of time they spent searching for Ammons so maybe they did have information or more reason to believe he really was out there. They just couldn't access him because of the water, which has been something they've brought up several times about the high levels of water and how much, you know, trouble that was causing for them in search Well, it sounds like they're going to be out there. They've got the FBI -- Mhmm. -- a forensic evidence team out there. They're gonna be out there at least for a couple days. Because again, they only found partial human remains. Right. Which if that is Brian, which it seems like all signs point to the remains being Brian's, what, you know, now it's kinda trying to figure out what happened to him. What was the cause of death? Are they gonna be able find the rest of his remains as they continue searching? Because parcel remains to me, sounds like either he took his own life and then Wildlife got a hold of him or the elements sort of, you know, pulled him apart because of the environmental factors or he just was attacked by a wild animal. Or or wild animals. I'm saying if he didn't take his own life, then either he succumb to the to the Ammons. I mean, this is a very hard place to survive for long periods of time without supplies and whatnot. And plus, there is plenty of wildlife in the Carlton reserve. There's alligators. I've heard even Panthers are reported to be there. So who knows? What exactly could have happened? I know so many people are hoping that if it is him, that it was something like, you know, he succumb to the elements or an animal or something like that because to so many taking your own life doesn't feel like justice, and I completely get that. This feels I feel so incredibly Sorry for her family today. I just can't imagine what this day was like for them and how how and just angry you would be the idea of him just having committing commit suicide out there and not seeing that's just most cowardly disgusting thing. And leaves everyone feeling so empty and But does What does justice even look justice even look like? I mean, you could argue that does having somebody go through the criminal justice system equal justice? I think it depends on the I think it depends on the Ammons. You know, I think no one really is gonna be able to know what justice would be like unless you are her parents. Right. know, what would they want? They they're the ones that can have to determine. It doesn't matter what we all think. Because I've seen a lot of conversation today about maybe if it is Brian, that this is a better outcome for them in a way because they could avoid years of pain and trial and that maybe there's information that Brian had that would really be upsetting for them to know. However, I don't know if that's how they would feel at all because I think if I was in their shoes personally, I would I would want to know and I would want to see that person be held accountable. I would wanna be able to read my victim statement in court even if it meant mental stress for years. But think it just depends on the individual's Ammons, and I'm not sure how they're feeling about this. They haven't released any statement. As far as now, we could insert something if they do. But Yeah. It's just it's like it's hard to see it all kinda end like this. I I think I said even in the last episode, I have high hopes that he's gonna be found alive and justice will be served feel that sometimes I just get I kinda look more to the fantasy than the reality and what was more likely seemed like majority of people and you and Janelle felt like and my mom when I talked to her just was everyone seemed to think this guy's gonna end up dead and found dead. Well, I mean, that's just kind of the way It it's it happened. I mean Yeah. -- it's what is he supposed I mean, what what can he do? I mean, how often new people go on the run and actually stay on the run and get away with with the crime. You know, it Ammons, but it's it's definitely rare for someone like It's more of a situation. Right. Exactly. So I think it we all knew that it was one of two scenarios. It was either he was going to get caught and brought in being found out in middle of nowhere. Trying to evade capture, or he was gonna just go somewhere, maybe try to stick it out for a bit, and then take his own life, or he just immediately went in there and went to his normal spot he usually goes to, and then he he took his own life. So Yeah. Just we just don't know really at this point. I mean, all we can hope for at this right now is that we this journal is able to be Well, yes. This is the other thing I wanted to discuss because that was interesting. I thought that that was mentioned by the FBI today because that was not released by the attorney. He said articles that belonged to Brian he didn't specify a backpack or notebook. So the FBI, the media didn't have that information. They didn't need to share that. It seemed like they were trying to clarify what's already come out so that they can put some of the rumors to rest. But then they brought up the notebook thing and that's just sparked a whole new conversation. What is in this notebook? Is this notebook even salvageable? Is it destroyed? Has it been underwater? Did he have a waterproof backpack? Did there's been a lot of talk about? Did he have a dry bag or some type special camping bag? And would that would that actually be able to protect it even if it was submerged underwater? Yes. If you went outside in the rain, you're -- -- or, like, we're in This is totally different. This isn't, like, just dropping your bag in a pool of innovation. The merge, which I don't think we've even gotten clarification about if the backpack was underwater, but it seems like, I mean, they had searched this area many times and the water was high, so I assume the backpack was underwater to Merge, which I don't think we've even gotten clarification about if the backpack was -- No water. -- I don't know any of those details. But it seems like I mean, they had searched this area many times -- Right. -- and the water was high. So I I assume the backpack was underwater too. Yeah. Or, I mean, this it's just so lush in there that it could have just been, like, in water -- Mhmm. -- underneath some And the notebooks could have been yes. Separate from the backpack. Yeah. Yeah. We just don't know at this point. I mean, I guess you can only hope that maybe there's some answers in that and that could be some type of closure. I mean, just having nothing and no answers for anyone of any of all of I mean, just having nothing and no answers for anyone of any of all of this. I mean, that's just so unfair for her family. So -- Yeah. -- I'm very curious about this notebook. And, yeah, we'll insert any other updates that come out if there's anything important at this point in the show. So we send our love to the Patito and Schmidt families and, you know, we hope that we all get more clarification on all of this soon. So, actually, we just got a new bit of information, some breaking news right now as we're recording this. And I wanted to share because this is clearing up some of the confusion we were just discussing. So Steven Verdellino, the Laundrie family attorney, has made another statement. So he says that his clients had called him yesterday and said that they wanted to search the reserve since it was back open and then he, Bertolino, had called the police and told them that the laundries would be at the reserve at seven AM that day and that the police could meet them out there. So they were the ones who decided to go out there, they weren't called in by law enforcement. And he also said that Chris and Roberta and two officers were spread out on either side of a trail and that Chris, his father, Brian's father, was the one to actually find a bag containing some of Brian's items. And then on the other side of the trail, officers were searching, and they found the backpack and the notebook on the other side. Which ended up being near the remains. And it seems as far as what we know now that even though Chris did find the item he did not he was not part of finding Brian's actual remains. So, yeah, that kinda clears it up a little bit. They weren't brought out there to identify something they chose to go out there and just happen to find these things, which obviously people are, I mean, have a lot of questions about. Today played out incredibly So on shoulders are -- -- this bizarre. I don't know what to even Think about about it. Just like, wow. Okay. So think there's First day, they decide they wanna go out there. It just happened to see the it's just They go straight to where it is too. Like I'm still I hope we get more clarification. And again, I will insert a little update after this if we do in the next few days. Okay. So it is now Friday, October twenty second, and we got a lot of new information yesterday, the twenty first. So I wanted to go over that So first, we found out that the remains that they found were skeletal remains. They said bones at first. Then it was announced first actually that the laundry parents had been formed that the remains were Brian Laundrie. And very quickly after that information came out and FBI confirmation came out as well, and they say they were able to use dental records to identify the remains. Obviously, this is not the outcome anyone was hoping for, and I'm sure the Patito family is really struggling to process what's going on right now, but they did put out a statement through their attorney. It says they are grieving the loss of their beautiful daughter. Gabby's father will make a statement at the appropriate time and when they are emotionally ready. Alright. So let's go ahead and switch gears here and get into this haunting story. I mean, there's extra systems. There's lots of craziness that happens with this family that lived in the demon house. 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That's ten dollars off a smart electric toothbrush at get quick dot com slash mile higher ten. That's GETQUIP dot com slash mile higher ten. Quip is the good Habit's company. Are you guys ready for this haunting case? Yes. The reason why I picked this one is because a lot of the haunting stories out there. I think people just automatically call bullshit on and they're like, there's no way this is real. You know, on lights out, I cover Ammons. I mean, I've covered probably nine different Ed and Lorraine Warren cases. And every time I put one of those cases up, it's like split fifty fifty. Like -- Mhmm. -- fifty percent of people believe, you know, the story and fifty percent are just, like, they're frauds. It's all the hoax. It's for money. And and that's just kinda how it goes in the paranormal world. world. I mean, a lot of it's very, very a lot of it's very, very split. It's very controversial. controversial. A lot of people think that kind of like true crime there's people in the paranormal world that are just there to exploit it and to make money off of these people's lot of people think that kind of like True Crime. There's people in the paranormal world that are just there to exploit it and to make money off of Mhmm. -- these people's stories. stories. Okay. lot of people are. A lot. I'm one of those people who tends to fall in the more skeptical category some of the time. Or a lot of the time when it comes to some of these stories because some of them are just so awful overblown and just you can prove that there Yeah. Yeah. Or there's just no evidence, no witnesses, no way to verify anything. That's why we I didn't we don't do much paranormal content on the planet. literally why I started lights out because she was like she just didn't watch it. Will people get mad at me when I don't believe in things? They excite me to believe in every single thing. And if I don't, then I'm Yeah. I mean, it's my fault. And do you everybody should have a certain level of skepticism? skepticism. I mean, I believe Leave in the the paranormal. paranormal. I believe in I believe and -- Spears. -- and -- Absolutely. -- operations. There's plenty of stories I believe in. I'm just picky about what I choose -- -- believe. mean, it's just energy at the end of the day. Right. Yeah. Residual energy leftover from a human Human soul. Right. Right. That's right. Mhmm. I do believe not. So if you believe in that, then I want you to go into this with very open mind because a lot of crazy shit happens in this one. But The difference between this one and some of the other cases out there is there are actually a lot of witnesses -- Mhmm. -- not only witnesses that were in this woman's house and actually observe things happening, heard voices, and we're talking about people from CPS, child protective services. We're talking about police officers. And we're also talking about a priest who performed multiple exorcisms in this house. So this house was that she lived in was where this haunting occurred. And this house is located in Gary, Indiana, which I was it was kinda funny. I was looking at this earlier and there was, like, I was reading on Reddit. Reddit. Somebody was like, there's a lot more, you need to be worried about like, there's a lot more you need to be worried about than than ghosts and or demons in Gary Indiana. Because Gary Indiana was actually once the murder capital in work, like, the entire country. Yes. Yes. Oh, I didn't know that very, very like rough, rough place or a lot of rough neighborhoods there I didn't know that. Very, very, like, rough, rough place. Very good. lot of rough neighborhoods there. Yeah. I've heard about it. I've heard a lot of bad things happen there. I didn't realize it was one of the top. Wow. Yeah. I think it's still up there, but yeah. So in November two thousand eleven, LaToya, Ammons rented a house on Carolina Street in Gary, Indiana. And she moved in with her three kids and her mother, Rosa Campbell. So there they are. We have pictures pictures. They've been interviewed a number of times about this whole experience they been interviewed a number of times about this whole experience they had. But LaToya had two sons who were seven and nine years old and one daughter who was twelve. And the kids were very excited to move into their new home, And at first, everything was great. You know, they didn't really notice anything, but literally only a month into living there. This is December, mind you. Swarms of big horse flies infested their screen in porch, which is weird because it's the middle of winter. Flies do not hang out. Oh, what the In the middle middle. And this is a screened in this is a screened in porch, so it's still kind of outside, so it's still be cold. There. So why is there big swarms of horse flies in there? And so LaToya and her mother, you know, kept killing the flies, but they always came back day after day, swarms would return to the porch in a huge number. That is disgusting. So despite killing them, removing them next day, go out to the ports, they're back. And it's not happening to any of their neighbors? No. Mouth. But then, as quickly as these horse flies arrived, they suddenly disappeared. Just cease to to be there anymore, which someone say, well, probably just got too cold and eventually killed all the flies or maybe There was something more going on with these flies -- Mhmm. -- and they just vanished for some reason. Mhmm. But Latoya and her mother Rosa were very relieved by this. But this was just the beginning of the fun. Soon, more strange things started happening. After midnight, each night They heard footsteps on the basement stairs. Oh, no. No. No. No. No. No. There's been couple nights in our house. Yeah. Where I hear noises from downstairs. Yeah. It it shakes me to my core and I jump up. And I'm like, do I need to grab a weapon before I run down there, and I run down there, and there's nothing. And and this was this was like last night too. Wait. Yeah. Remember you heard that? Yeah. I mean, yes, but I think it might have been our bunny. We have this one bunny who's kind of a chunker and she likes to jump on things. And when she jumps off, she kinda, like, slams them against the wall. So sometimes people hear these big bangs and think something bad Ammons we'll run down and it's just the buzz. I was gonna say, I don't even know because when I was staying here house -- Oh, yeah. -- currently, She's here for January, by the way. Yeah. I'm Janelle today. I think she's yes. But she's pet sit for us. I stayed in our house. Yeah. I was house sitting for you. And I was I think I was just, like, in the bedroom or whatever. I swear I heard the front door open, and it's -- Yeah. -- stuck out of me. And me. And so like, I even went out there and like, cause this was like like, even went out there and, like, because this was, like Creeks too when you open. It's like, no. Yeah. So, like, III that's what I heard. I heard the creaking. And so, like, I, like, got super scared because I'm home alone. Yeah. And I mean, you guys weren't even, like, this was, like, day two of me, you know, of me housing. Yeah. And, yeah, so another and there was literally nothing Laundrie got the creepiest feeling, I think your house has haunted. We have had so many moments like that. I mean, if you've been watching our show for a long time since we moved into this house, we've had, like, weird creepy things happen and weird things with our neighbors and And my brother was staying here and he said someone was banging on the front window. Yes. In the middle of the night, and then he went out there and no one was there. Mhmm. Which, I mean, we also have, like, some creepy neighbors. So I don't know. I don't think it was that. There's there's sounds We are moving actually, eventually here because a lot of things have happened. Forbes in the studio. Honestly, we've had, like, some true crime going on. We've had paranormal in this house. It's been like a wild ride, and the studio is totally haunted. And last week, your phone fell off a charger. And if you watch the session -- Yeah. -- things happen on the session -- Yeah. -- all the time, and we just leave it in. Yeah. Stuff Stuff. The stuff fell over on stuff fell over on hear here. The other other day to just like randomly fell off the other other day too just like randomly fell off. Or the times we'll randomly hear sounds and we'll all hear them during the recording and we're like, what the hell was that? Was the the soundboard go off, like, one time we had a little car honk. And then, you know, look on the footage, and it wasn't even there. It wasn't even there. there. So that's how demonic possession how demonic possession starts. Oh, god. It starts with the noise. In the house. Honestly, I'm feeling whatever is haunting us is, like, a friendly spirit. Yeah. At least someone is not myself. There's nothing that is trying to hurt us or is malicious. I think it is malignant spirit that it's just here because either I welcomed it in here at some point. But I I I don't know when we moved into this house, there were problems right away, like Halloween of We didn't move to his house. There were problems right away. Like, Halloween of twenty nineteen, when we did we did a bunch of Halloween content, I remember we were remember the thing with the attic. addict. We heard sounds up in the attic and we had to open the We heard sounds up in add it, and we had to open the Yeah. Yeah. That makes it hard. And then the TV remember, one of the first weeks we moved in our TV line just go on randomly. No. Dude. It blew off the fucking wall. Do you not remember that? that? It was on the It was on the man toll. mantle. We had it like balanced on the mantle and all of a sudden in the middle of the night, all of a sudden the TV just flew off the had it, like, balanced on the man toll, and the call started in the middle of the night. Fell off. All of a sudden, the TV just flew off the mantle. It mantle. It was one of our second, maybe our second week one of our second maybe our second week here. You're right. It's just been there are so many things we're starting to forget about that. But we've caught a lot of them on camera. There was one in one of my videos as well. I don't know, man. So LaToya and her family are having similar experiences to what we've had in our house. They're hearing footsteps going down the basement stairs, and of course, when they rush the stairs, there's nobody there. Mhmm. So then it went from hearing footsteps to soon hearing the sound of the door opening from the basement to the kitchen. kitchen. So a lot of houses, the basement door is in the kitchen and they would hear that door So lot of houses, the basement door is in the kitchen. And they would hear that door open. So the Laundrie reminds you, this is two women with a couple kids living in this house. They're freaking out because they're like, I mean, they're not in the best neighborhood ever. So there's there's strong likeliness that somebody could be breaking in or an intruder or something like that. LaToya course, when they go to check, there's nobody there. So as these things are happening, getting a little more freaked out, out. So she starts locking the basement door at night, but they kept hearing the same sounds, the heavy footsteps followed by the creaky door, opening and so she starts locking the basement door at night. But they kept hearing the same sounds, the heavy footsteps followed by the creaky door opening and closing. Then one night, Latoya woke up startled as someone was coming out of her closet and walked into the living room. room. She was like, whoa, what was was like, whoa, what was that? And she actually crept out of bed and followed it. And when she went into the living room, there was shataway figure that kind of resembled a large man that was just pacing around the room. room. She then turned on the light to the living room, preparing for the worst to see whoever this figure is potentially an intruder walking around her She then turned on the light to the living room. Preparing for the worst to see whoever this figure is potentially an intruder walking around her house. But of course, when she turned on the light, the figure disappeared. But then what's super crazy is that when she walked over, she saw large, wet, muddy, boot prints all across. The floor. So you might be thinking, well, this could just be LaToya seeing things that aren't there, but there's actually a picture of the footprints for one. But she also wasn't the only one who witnessed events inside this house. On March ten two thousand and twelve, Latoya hosted a wake for the death of a family member, and several relatives were up late that night with Latoya and Rosa, and everyone was just talking and grieving together. And then around two AM in the morning. They heard daughter screaming from her room. Mama. Mama. Of course, they got up, rushed into her daughter's room, and what they saw was absolutely shocking and unexplainable. Her daughter was unconscious and levitating off of the bed. Holy shit. Okay. Just floating above the bat. I'm I'm speechless. That's I don't know what I would do. I would be walking in her daughter's room. I would be very very scared for her. Holy shit. So they ended up making a circle around her in circles. prayer circle. Yeah. I I would call 9 1 1 personally, but I'd be so call nine eleven personally, but I'd be so scared. I'd be like screaming running to neighbors house trying to get anyone I could. I'd be so scared. What's 911 gonna do about that though? though. I don't know don't know something. Hopefully, the ambulance can bring something or bring her down. Bring her down. Yeah. That's insane. I mean, oh, my god. I feel so bad for them too. And, you know, these pictures of them. It was traumatic. It was totally traumatic. Yeah. I'm I'm sure it was terrifying. terrifying. I really can't imagine seeing something like I really can't imagine seeing something like that. Yeah. But then when her daughter woke up, she had no memory of what had happened. So she was unconscious and and literally just, like, taken over by something else. else. I hate that kind of that kind of stuff stuff. That scares me so scares me so bad. So is that her getting possessed when she was levitating? Probably Probably. I think she was already she was already possessed. She was possessed probably immediately after moving in and whatever this entity is is gaining strength and is manipulating her feeding off of her. I mean, oftentimes, if you believe in the world of evil spirits, demons, whatever you wanna call it, oftentimes we find in over a large number of cases that children are often preyed upon because they are so naive and gullible and They're pure. Pure. Exactly. Yeah. I'd say they're closer to the other side too. So maybe they're still more there's always talk of that. Like an easier Mhmm. Mhmm. Yeah. It's it's definitely an easier being to possess. Yeah. Yeah. There's a, it's a lot easier for them to manipulate and it's a lot easier for them to manipulate and dive into. That's That's a new fear for me for having a new fear for me for having kids. I'm glad we're not gonna have them in this house. Yeah. Yeah. Seriously though, also after this whole ordeal. The relatives that were visiting Latoya left immediately and refused to ever come back into the house. And any friends or family who did come to the house eventually saw something terrifying and did the same thing thing. They never came never came back. So it was very lonely and isolating for Latoya and her family because nobody wanted to come over to their place anymore because they were all terrified of it. They're they're already associating it with some type of demonic activity. Yeah. And, I mean, they're all I mean, she comes from a religious family and her family members are involved in the church, I would say probably Christian. Christian. And so when this type of activity starts happening, so when this type of activity starts happening, It's very scary. Well, think it's scary for everyone no matter what religious background you have. Your daughter levitating and all these things happening in your house would just be terrifying for anybody. And it's such a horrible situation especially when you own the home because it's not like you can Well, I guess you could, if you wanted to spend a ton of money, go stay in a hotel and get out of the situation, situation. But that's not always an option for people, that's not always an option for all now. No. And for how long? I mean And then how do you it's like the fear of how do I even sell this house, especially with it, the rumors starting to get around about it. Or how do you fix this problem? Yeah. Who do you call? Who who's gonna come fix this? Like, there's not just like us. Ghostbusters. You're not gonna call yeah. You're not gonna call go No. No. Definitely not. I don't know. That's Oh. So it kinda puts you in a tough position. Oh my gosh. I can't Ammons. Especially trying to get rid of something not there. You're known that you can't see. You can't, like, tangibly see. So Right. It's Right. It's not like you can physically like set a trap for it captured in a bottle and then like take it outside and release like you can physically, like, set a trap for it Mhmm. -- captured in a bottle and then, like, take it out side and release it. It'd be nice if you could. Right? So that would be cool. But let's play a clip of this interview of Latoya Latoya. Just kind of talking about her experience with kinda talking about her experience with this. One of the demons started his image started coming in and clap full. Like, we would see them, but we would see you know, like the shadows, like, the ghostly look Okay. Like, as if a person was walking around, cities, they they fell and they had some stuff stance for their shadow. Yes. Okay. Yes. But my other guests who came by they saw them as well. Mhmm. So it had us. Nobody would come back. No one. No friends. No family wanted to come around. And, you know, we understood it because it was scary. scary. But at the same time we felt alone hurt the same time, we felt along her loss, and we had no one to depend on what what the lord. So So just like you were saying in this type of situation, I think a lot of people would be like, I need to get out of this like you were saying, in this type of situation, I think a lot of people would be like, I need to get out of this house. Clearly, Clearly. There's something going on in something going on in here. Whether you go to a hotel or you just move out completely. And of course, LaToya wanted to get out of this situation. She situation. She wanted to get her family out of this house, but they didn't have a lot of get her family out of this house but they didn't have a lot of Ammons, and they didn't know anyone who could take in five people. So they were just kind of stuck there. That's okay. And having to deal with this horrible situation. So Rosa told her that they needed to get help from the church because something supernatural was obviously happening in the house and they couldn't deal with it alone. So, Latoya started calling local churches, but after explaining what was going on, most of them brushed her off. What the heck? What's crazy is that seriously though. If I were to call up the local churches around here right now, and I said, hi, I think I might have demonic activity happening in my house. Most of them would just be like, sorry I can't help you or Yeah. Well, it's not like they're really trained all of them to do that. But yeah, you'd think that would be the right person to call. Right? Yeah. I mean, that's that's kinda what you grow up thinking. There's no one else to call. Right. I remember my friend who thought she was haunted back in college. just didn't episode on my crazy roommate stories on the sash, and she had to go visit with the priest, but they wouldn't come back to our dorm because she thought the dorm was haunted. But yeah, that's like I guess the only person you can try to go to is a church. Well, and you have to look for the right church and not all churches have somebody who can help with that type of thing. Aren't a lot of priests trained to exercise though? Like No. Actually, there's very few that still do it now. It's kind of a a loss practice. There's there's definitely and and it's very controversial. I mean, there's a it there's a lot of even Catholic churches that don't recognize exorcisms as being even a real thing. Mhmm. But the Vatican still does have priests that can do extras. They still do the whole power of Christ compels you. Sort Sort Yeah. Sort of. I mean, there's some more different rights and rituals that they do, but It's it's not like there's just gonna be somebody who can perform an exorcism, you know, that you're priest. Right. Just because you're a priest doesn't mean you're qualified or have you know how to because you're because you're basically going to battle with some type of supernatural being that could be either evil or, you know, just -- So I guess -- -- misunderstood. -- only hope if you can't get help from a church is maybe some type of small paranormal investigator group, you know, like Brian Bonner, who we had on our show at one point at the episode was taken down by YouTube for literally no reason. Thanks so much. But that was a interesting interview because he would go to people's houses where they thought there was hauntings going on, investigate, figure out if it was something else, or if it was something actually paranormal. But it's not like that's readily available everywhere. Yeah. Yeah. Well, all the belief different belief systems have different ways of handling this type of thing too. Like, if you were to look into native American Shamanism and things like that, there's there's, you know, they'd call them different things. Ammons is a word that is from Catholicism and from the Bible. Right. But from other religions and other cultures that that it's referred to by different names. But ultimately, it comes down to dealing with an evil spirit. There's some type of evil spirit or interdimensional being that is from some other realm that is malicious in nature that you're dealing with, which is very possible possible. And there's lots of documented cases of people interacting with these types of there's lots of documented cases of people interacting with these types of beans. Mhmm. So I guess based on what your own personal beliefs are, it's gonna be how you either they're doing contact or Right. But obviously, people think that exercising is the most, like, efficient way to deal with this type of thing. So that's kind of what they're trying to figure out as we can find somebody to bring them in and hopefully rid the house of this evil spirit. I think I'd be so desperate if that was happening to my child that I would call in just about anyone who claimed they could do anything. But one of the churches, they told her to clean house with bleach and Ammons, and then to draw crosses on every door and windows with olive oil. The bleach is interesting. And this would help rid the house of evil spirits. Is Is that common that common bleach bleach? I've never heard that I've never heard that before. Yeah. Switched kill spirits. I I I don't know. I think it kills the germs in the house. Maybe they think that there's some type of mold in their house that's causing them to hallucinate. hallucinate. So by cleaning the whole house with bleach, maybe get rid of some type of, by cleaning the whole house with bleach, maybe you get rid of some type of I don't know though. Mhmm. Of things like that. And then the olive oil things interesting too. I haven't heard that. But the olive oil helps rid the house of evil spirits. evils. This was just what one particular church told them to do. Yeah. So this isn't Like, there's no idea. I know. know. I know it's not the know. It's a guy. Right? Yeah. But Well, yeah. It's interesting how everyone has a different take on how to handle these things. Right. Right. So she started she did all this, and then she even poured olive oil on her kids' hands and feet and used it to draw crosses on their foreheads. She also prayed over the children And when she did this, it seemed like this evil presence would leave them alone at least for a little while, but it was never for very long because then the strange things just kept on happening. So LaToya decided to reach out to a sidekick, and she got advice from two sidekicks who told her that more than two hundred demons were possessing a home. home. Oh, holy fuck. So two I choose psychics. Oh my god. There are two hundred demons that were infesting this home. This is a total infestation of demonic eye. Like basically a portal was opened in this house to some other dark world where demons are just come free flowing in and out of it. What do you even do with that information? How do you go to sleep ever again? again? I don't know. They were like, you need to move immediately and never go back. And back. And that's the only advice I could give them that this is like, this house is too far gone to even stay the only advice they could give them. That this is like this house -- That's like -- is too far gone to to even stay there. Like, there is no reading this house of the evening. How are you gonna sell it now? Right. Who wants the house with two hundred demons? Right. So they said, you know what, if you're gonna stay in this house, then you need to follow these instructions very carefully. So what they told her to do was make an altar in their basement using an end table in a white sheet, and then set it up with a bible, a white candle, and then statues of Mary Joseph and Jesus. And then she poured salt all along the basement walls, which would which is a known thing to help keep evil spirits out. Yep. My roommate tried that too -- Mhmm. -- brought in the salt to the dorm. Very nice. She also opened the bible to Psalm ninety one, which is a passage about being protected by God. And then she got help from a friend in order to complete this ritual. And ritual. And they actually all dressed in white and tied white scarves to their actually all dressed in white and tied white scarves to their head, and they burned sage and sulfur through the entire house leaving it thick trail of smoke, and together they basically walked around reciting the saw ninety one out loud. Latoya even drew a cross in the air with the smoke as they made their way through the house. house. They're basically doing their own sort of exorcism Sarah ceremony inside of the basically doing their own sort of exercising ceremony inside of the house. They went all around upstairs and then into the Ammons, and that was it. That was all they they could really do. And now they just had to wait and see if it actually worked. And for the next three days, everything seemed totally normal and nothing strange or unexplained happened in the house. But then, Three days later, the spirits came back and they came back with the vengeance. And this time, They went straight at her kids because her kids started acting very strangely. They would get these twisted smiles that would appear on their faces for no reason. Oh, no. No. No. No. reason. And they started talking and strange deep they started talking in strange, deep voices. Oh, no. This is gonna be, like, actual this is actually making me a little scared. Just do make me scared. So imagine A79 and -- Oh. -- twelve year old. Walking around the house, talking in deep voice Oh, that's first glance. Eyes bulging. Oh my god. I feel so bad for this family. And smile, crooked, like, a crooked smile. Oh, like, that like, twisted Oh my god. No. Yeah. Like, hell no. Clearly being, you know, some type of possessions happening there in order to make that happen. Mhmm. Because the demons are pissed. pissed. They did not like this whole godly ceremony they had inside the did not like this whole godly ceremony they had inside the home that was completely It was like spitting in their faces, so now they're coming back meaner than before. But the kids would go through these episodes where they would they would talk different, look different, and they would not remember any of it afterwards. Her seven year old son would actually sit in his closet talking to himself. And literally having an entire conversation as if somebody was in there with him. And when he would have this conversation, he would talk in a low grough voice that was so deep, there's no way it could come from a seven year old kid. And he'd say things like, I've been here long enough. enough. I came to I came to kill. I'm going to kill now. Oh. Your seven year old son sitting alone, saying shit like that that. And the deep a deep voice. And then her nine year old described in detail what it was like to be killed. Her daughter heard voices that would taunt her and she would cover her ears and yell things like, I can't take it anymore, make them stop. stop. I can't look in their I can't look in their eyes. eyes. Absolutely terrifying. LaToya also felt strange things too. Her her. Temperature would would rise. rise. She felt weak and lightheaded and her body She felt weak and light headed and her body shook. And it was unlike anything she'd ever felt before. And she just knew that this was not some natural thing her body was going through that there was something supernatural that was causing these feelings and her body to change. Rosa tried to help her daughter and grandchildren as best as she could. What's interesting is that she didn't experience anything herself and believe this was because she had a guardian angel protecting her. So it's just Latoya and the kids, but Rosa is seemingly untouched by this. She's also seen wearing that cross necklace in a pretty much every photo. So I wonder if that's something to do with it. There's some level of protection with that. But eventually things got violent when one of the boys shot out of the bathroom like something had literally picked him up and threw him out. What the fuck? Just through the door. And if you think that was bad, LaToya daughter seemed to get the worst of it though. though. Once she was hit so hard with a headboard that she needed was hit so hard with the headboard, that she needed stitches. And another time, she said she was held down and choked by an invisible force. Oh my god. The trauma. Which I'm like, what choked by an invisible force? So much so that she was literally like paralyzed. paralyzed. She couldn't She couldn't move. She couldn't talk. So I'm like, maybe sleep paralysis potentially? Mhmm. That's yeah. Could Could be possible. Laundrie mean, it seems like this is happening. It's happening. Yeah. Like, paralysis Oh, yeah. Could be could be something like that. She also said a terrifying voice spoke to her and told her that she would never see her family again. And that they'd be dead in twenty minutes. So very specific things are being said and being heard by her kids. Which, where is that coming from? I mean, unless they're being fed this. But again, multiple people are witnessing this. Things also escalated at night and the kids could hardly sleep. They were so exhausted and sleep deprived that they missed a lot of school. And some nights, Latoya checked her family into a hotel, which was something she couldn't really afford, but they did it just so that they could get a good night sleep. That's so sad. Seriously, Seriously. It's terrible. terrible. The last night the family spent in the house was very The last night the family spent in the house was very violent. A lamp in an air freshener flew from the bedroom into the living room And the kids were having episodes and throwing chairs and other furniture around it was absolute chaos. So LaToya and Rosa grabbed what they could, took the kids and left. And her older son was picked up and flipped right off of the porch as they fled. So at this point, LaToya is desperate for answers and she decides to take her kids to the doctor. In order to get them checked out. So she took them to their family doctor named doctor Jeffrey Annette Hu in April two thousand and twelve. He said later that as soon as he walked into the exam room, he was suddenly terrified terrified. He felt like an absolute sense of dread, just overcame felt like an absolute sense of dread just overcame Ammons in his twenty years as a doctor, he never felt anything like that before. He believed the family was suffering from delusions and hallucinations that were making them believe that there were ghosts in their home. But then literally in the doctor's office, He witnessed the seven year old boy start cursing at him in this deep horrifying voice. Obviously, the doctor is stunned that the seven year old boy is cussing him out but then his brother, the nine year old, joined in. And then pretty soon, both boys just lunged randomly at the doctor and attacked him. The medical staff tried to intervene when suddenly. The younger boy was lifted off of the ground and thrown into the wall. Mind you, nobody was touching him. He then landed on the floor and passed out, and as soon as he passed out the older boy passed out at the exact same time. And they even tried to shake them and like slap them and be like wake up wake up wake up and they they couldn't. They're just both out cold. cold. So at the doctor's office, they call 9 1 1, and at least seven police officers came with multiple at the doctor's office, they call nine eleven, and at least seven police officers came with multiple ambulances the staff panicked was impossible for the officers to even figure out what had happened because it was just so mind blowing what they had just witnessed that they were they didn't even get the full story of what had actually happened. How do you explain that too? Yeah. Exactly. exactly. How do you, well, they just freaked do you well, they just because of the bad news. Yeah. There's just no way to really explain that. Eventually, the boys woke up and the family waited together in the hospital room. But then it started again. The younger boy started screaming and trying to attack everyone in the room. Members of the medical staff rushed in again and it took five men to control him. And at this point, the people that were very concerned about the children, they're like, what is going on with these kids? So they actually call the Department of Child Services in to have them come and investigate because they were they were under the staff was basically worried that the kids were being abused or neglected -- Mhmm. -- because they were just, like, what is this behavior? Clearly something is happening. happening. And I think that the fact that CPS got involved in this case, legitimize I think that the fact that CBS got involved in this case legitimizes the whole story. story. Yeah. And I mean, the there's the whole report, the intake reports actually out on the internet, you can actually download it and read mean, there's the whole report, the intake reports actually out on the Internet. Yeah. You can actually download it and read it. So the DCS actually sent out Valerie Wash who's an experienced case worker who had witnessed extreme violence abuse and poverty to go interview Latoya and her children. The staff reported that LaToya and her kids were physically healthy. The kids had no injuries, marks, cuts, or bruises, and the hospital psychiatrists had talked to Latoya in such she seemed to be sound mind, mind. So she seemed to be with it based on her conversations with she seemed to be with it based on her conversations with her. But Valerie immediately suspected that LaToya was suffering from a mental illness that was affecting her children, which I think that's what most logical people would think when looking at the situation that there's got to be something going on mentally and perhaps the mother's mentally ill ill. And therefore that is affecting the children in a negative way because to her, it looked like the kids were encouraged every time they exhibited these strange behaviors and things just kept escalating as therefore that is affecting the children in a negative way. Because to her, it looked like the kids weren't encouraged every time they exhibited these strange behaviors and things just kept escalating as a result. Mhmm. So result. So it was kinda like almost encouraged is what she felt was kinda like almost encouraged is what she felt like. But then again, this is just her initial view of what what's going on here. But while she was actually talk into the seven year old boy, he growled at her and nashed his teeth. Then his eyes rolled back in his head and only the whites of his eyes could be seen. Oh my god. Which is obviously super freaky to witness. Mhmm. But it is still explainable. But then the boy lunged at his brother and started choking him. him. He held on so tight that again, it took multiple adults to control him at this point, Valerie decided to take a break and figure out what to do held on so tight that again it took multiple adults to control him. At this point, Valerie decided to take a break and figure out what to do next. I'm sure she was like, totally confused. What do I even do here? Totally. I mean, this is probably not the the average case kits -- No. -- as a -- or case worker at DCS. caseworker. I Yeah. I mean, I'm sure she's seen a lot of terrible things, but this just so I'm sure she's seen a lot of terrible things, but this just so confusing. Mhmm. So So later that night she took the boys in their grandmother into a separate room with an RN and a psychologist, the younger boy growled again, while staring at his that night, she took the boys and their grandmother into a separate room with an RN and a psychologist. The younger boy growled again while staring at his brother Laundrie spoke in what sounded like an adult man's voice and said, it's time to die. die. I will kill you, the older boy then bent over and started like ramming himself into his I will kill you. The older boy then bent over and started like ramming himself into his grandmother Laundrie just kept running into her stomach with his head over and over again while growling at the same time. Rosa took his hand and actually said you're not my grandson. You're a demon. And she started praying. As she prayed, the boy's smile widened, and he walked backwards towards the wall, so he just walked backwards. And then to everyone's shock, he literally just kept walking backwards up the wall. What? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. In this, in this hospital or like with these this in this hospital, like, I With the ceiling. people? Yeah. If I saw this, how terrifying I saw this, how terrifying? Backwards onto the ceiling. It's just What's that? Video footage of this. Mhmm. Did they not record, you know I'm adding this. Like this. No. Or it's still like classified or something. I don't know. That's possible. They because it's a DCS case. So But they they probably do keep record. They don't often release it, but I don't I actually don't know how that works. That's insane. Just why do we have no visuals of any of this happening? That's that's always my thing. I know. I know. I want to see wanna see it. That's me. It's hard for me to believe things when I don't see them, but I'm not saying I don't believe him. No. Not necessarily. So I know I'm totally open minded. I really do believe this family. I just wish we could see it for ourselves, you know? I know. I know. So he's walking backwards up the wall onto the ceiling all while holding his grandmother's hand too. So his grandmother's going like this. How am I raising her hand, watching her grandson. I don't wanna stay up the wall. I I think I would drop his hand. I would be so scared. Until he drops. Oh my god. But then he lands on his feet. What? Yeah. Like a cat? Yeah. He's, like, drops off the ceiling, laying softly on his feet. Wild. Oh my god. All while still holding his grandmother, rose his hand. hand. And everybody's just absolutely stunned in complete silence at what they just witnessed or like, holy everybody's just absolutely stunned and complete silence at what they just witnessed. They're like, holy shit. What was that? I mean, they're very freaked out at this point because they're like, this is not Ammons, whatever This is doesn't defies what a human being can do. So what is making this boy capable of doing these absolutely impossible things. Spoofing things. Right? Valerie, the caseworker was there. And she ran out of the room. Because she was so weird out by what she had just seen. seen. Other staff members come out after her there, they're running, trying to find the doctor, trying to explain what's going staff members come out after her. They're they're running, trying to find the doctor -- And they -- trying to explain what's going on. Said even more. That these caseworkers saw these All these people witnesses. Yeah. Wow. Wow. So they found the found the doctor. doctor. They sent the doctor back into the room to talk to the boy because he wanted to see what had just They sent the doctor back into the room to talk to the boy. Because he wanted to, you know, see what had just happened. Also, he wanted to see if he could do the same thing again. again. And he's like, oh, well I missed like, oh, well, I I missed it. Let's see if we can do it again. Will someone get a camera out? Yeah. Yeah. Right? The doctor goes in. He starts talking to the boys and he's like, can you do this again? They're like, what are you talking about? They're like, can you walk backwards up the wall? He's like, walk backwards up the wall. That's the thing is every time they did these absolutely bizarre, almost supernatural things, they didn't have any recollection of doing it afterwards. It just wasn't like happened memory. Yeah. It was like never happened. happened. Wow. That's so insane. And it was at this point that the RN actually suggested that the boy might be possessed by a Ammons. Valerie, who is a complete skeptic, agreed that there is some sort of evil influence on this family. Damn. At this point, they admitted the seven year old boy into the hospital and LaToya stayed with him overnight. Rosa took the other kids to stay with a relative and none of them wanted to go back to their house. house. As you can imagine, the next day was a little boy's can imagine. The next day was the little boy's birthday, turned eight years old, and the poor kid was in the hospital celebrating his birthday. And things just got worse. worse. DCS told Latoya that they wanted to talk to the family LaToya that they wanted to talk to the family again, and Rosa brought the other kids back to the hospital. The family got a little cake and saying happy birthday trying to celebrate together as best as they could. Oh my god. Yeah. After all this shit's going on, after they ate the cake, Valerie came in to talk to Latoya and she broke the news that they were taking her children into their custody because they believe that they're being neglected and were concerned that the kids have been missing so much school. It's actually just like took custody of the kids. Yeah. That's such bullshit. That is fucked up. While Valerie wrote in her report that she believed that the kids were experiencing spiritual and emotional distress as her reasoning for doing it. But how is that the mom's fault? Well, I mean, she's skeptical of what's happening, so she thinks there's some type of something that Latoya is doing for her kids kids. That's causing the causing the behavior. Yeah. And what a nightmare for this year? I know. My god. Her kids love her. Like, they love her mother. They're super close. And they're probably needing her support more than ever while they're going through this terrifying situation. situation. Yeah. Oh my my god. So they split the family up. Great. But they suck. Split the family up and they're obviously very sad. LaToya is feeling very defeated in this and not knowing what to do, but then she actually got some unexpected help. And I'll tell you about that unexpected help right after this last outbreak. If you're if you're carrying a credit card balance month after month, it can feel like you're in a never-ending cycle of debt with no end in carrying a credit card balance month after month, it can feel like you're in never ending cycle of debt, with no end in sight. Upstart can help you make that final payment so you can get ahead. I was ahead. 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Again, that's net sweet dot com slash mile higher. So by some miracle while they're at the hospital. The hospital chaplain caught wind of what was going on. And that's when he actually called father Michael Manhunt, who went by father Mike in order to come talk to the Ammons The chapel explained that the nine year old boy was possessed by an evil spirit and likely needed an exorcism. However, father Mike had no experience with something like this. But he still met with Latoya and Rosa after masks that Sunday and then actually agreed to go back to their house to check things out. Father Mike talked to the two women for two hours and then they showed him the footprints that had been left in the living room by the shadowy figure from the previous nights. While this was going on, the bathroom light started flickering. Bother Mike obviously noticed it and started walking toward the light and it stopped. He then inspected it and was sure that the light was off. But then as soon as he walked away, the flickering came back, and this happened several more times. He also said he felt an unsettling presence and said that the light was being controlled by an evil spirit that was afraid of him. After the light flickering incident, the blinds in the kitchen started moving. No windows were open, there was no events near the windows, that could be blowing air, causing them to move, they just started randomly moving. LaToya told the priest that she had a terrible headache, and he decided to do an experiment and put a crucifix against her forehead. And as soon as he did this, she started convulsing so he pulled it away. He was away. He was in the house for four hours total and he determined that there was a presence there that needed to be the for four hours total, and he determined that there was a presence there that needed to be exercised. He also thought the presence had attached itself to Latoya. He went around and sprinkled holy water and set a prayer before he left. As he left, he was also able to convince Latoya and Rosa to stay with the family member because he deemed that the house was not safe. Now Valerie, the caseworker, met the women at the house a few weeks later for an inspection, and she insisted that a police officer come along and two other officers from the other departments join the inspection as well. As they had actually heard the story about the haunted house, the possessed Ammons, and they wanted to see it for themselves. Because at this point, it was starting word was starting to kinda get out little bit that there's this house where all this crazy activity is happening, so people, you know, had heard about the demon house. One of the officers was Charles Austin, who was the captain of the Gary Police Department. He had been at the house a month before for a welfare check when it was reported that the kids had missed a lot of school. And when school. And when he went into the house that day saw crucifixes candles and Bibles went into the house that day, he saw crucifixes, candles and bibles everywhere. So he everywhere. So he knew something really strange was something really strange was happening. He believed in ghosts, but not in evil demons. But he said he definitely felt an evil presence while in the house. Latoya asked father Mike to be there during the child services inspection for moral support and in case anything supernatural happened. And when they all LaToya lost her nerve, she refused to go into the house. So Rosa actually had to take all of them inside. She showed them the spot where they believe the presence came from, and it was a dirt floor underneath the stairs leading down to the basement, which is very weird. Altogether, they were altogether. They were in the basement for about 15 the basement for about fifteen minutes and several strange things happened. There was happened. There was a door that led into a separate door that led into a separate room, And one officer noticed that the door was in a different position each time he looked at it. But no one had gone into the room, so it was like how did the door get like that? The officer questioning Rosa turned on an audio recorder to tape her answers, but it wouldn't record. As it it. Cause it turned out the batteries were dead, even though they were brand new batteries that were put in the same day, which that is a pretty common thing that happens that electronic devices just stop working batteries, drain in places with lots of energy going out, the batteries were dead even though they were brand new batteries that were put in the same day. Wow. Which that is a pretty common thing that That's electronic devices just stop working, batteries drain, in places with lots of energy going on. Yeah. We've on. that in this studio for sure. Yes. Yes, sure. have. They eventually got another recorder and they were able to record the conversations that were going on. But later when they played back the tape, they heard a voice whispering. And it was really clear like someone was actually speaking right into the microphone of the recorder. Oh, hell no. While they're there, While they're there, they also took they also took photos. And when reviewing them later, a photo of the basement stairs had a strange white spot in one corner. So they enhanced the picture and saw that the spot had a face. They also saw a green spot that looked like the figure of a woman. Captain Austin woman. Captain Austin took photos with his iPhone and later saw that they revealed shadowy took photos with his iPhone and later saw that they revealed shadowy figures. They looked figures. They looked like outlines of people walking around the house, which obviously lined up with what the family had, had actually seen outlines of people walking around the house. Which obviously lined up with what the family had had actually seen before. They had seen these terrifying shadowy figures and they believed that these were demons As the captain was leaving the basement, he saw a foil pan with a candle under the stairs, and it looked like the remnants of some type of ritual. So we started to worry that somebody who had lived in the house prior had somehow conjured or opened this portal to hell, so to speak. What's crazy is that when the captain of the police department left the house, he drove a mile away, pulled over at a gas station, he then made a phone call, and was talking when the radio in his car turned to static. And the radio was at full volume. And he said he heard a threatening voice say, You in there. Wow. And the answer is, I haven't heard it too. Crazy. That's so insane and that's another really common thing, static. Yep. But that wasn't all. When he got home, his garage door wouldn't open. Even though it was working just fine earlier that day. The next time he drove his car, the driver's seat moved back and forth on its own. Literally just like moved like this. He went to a mechanic and got it checked out, and they told him that if he hadn't had gotten this fix, so quickly that it likely would have caused a crash that may have injured him seriously or killed him. Oh, my god. After this happens, he really starting to think that Maybe I should have gone into that house at all because something may have attached to him and was causing some of the weird things that started experiencing. Also, some of the other officers who were inside the house were so afraid that they actually ended up just leaving the police force. Quit their jobs and even moved away from Gary, Indiana. You gotta think that he was probably going crazy trying to figure out what was going on with Ammons he him. And he was very convinced that it had something to do with what they found under the stairs, that it was likely some type of conjuring that very convinced that it had something to do with what they found under the stairs, that it was likely some type of calendaring that occurred that brought occurred. That's brought forth all these evil spirits, but during the child services investigation, officials asked Latoya why the kids miss so much all these evil spirits. But during the child services investigation, officials asked Latoya why the kids miss so much school. And when school. And when she said the spirits would make them sick and keep them up all night, they were very she said the spirits would make them sick and keep them up all night, they were very concerned. Her older son and daughter were actually placed in an emergent sees shelter for kids and Ammons, and her families. And our younger son was sent to a psychiatric facility where he could undergo more intense son was sent to a psychiatric facility where he could undergo more intense evaluation. I had those poor kids. I know. I know. He was evaluated by psychologist Stacy Wright, and at right? And at first the conversation was the conversation was normal. But when normal. But when she asked him about the haunting or demons, he gave nonsensical she asked him about the haunting or demons, he gave nonsensical answers. And when she tried to push him further, he changed the story to a version that was just as illogical. His answers illogical. His answers were different every time she repeated a question. He constantly changed the subject to ask bizarrely morbid questions back at her, like, can her. Like, can you die if you go to space? Just weird things like that. Stacey didn't think he was psychotic. She believed he was being influenced by his mother's delusions, and his behavior were reinforced by her and other adults when they believed his stories, which would give him more attention what he liked Laundrie would continue to act out. That's terrible. Which could be a possibility of what's going on, could be. The other kids were evaluated by psychologists, Joel Schwartz, and he agreed with Stacey's assessment that they were indeed being affected did by their mother's delusions. He recommended that Latoya's daughter undergo a more in-depth evaluation because she seemed especially affected by her mother's religious beliefs. So that's where this case is really split is a lot of people believe that this is a a case of mental illness and that one person is affecting others, kind of like a mass hysteria type of situation -- Mhmm. -- where one's freaking out so much that the neck starts freaking out than before you know what everybody's freaking out. Right. Again, it doesn't explain the walking up the walls, doesn't explain a lot of the the footprints and things like that. Mhmm. So that's where it's kinda like, well, maybe it's both. And that's the thing that really gets me is that multiple professionals saw him walking up the wall. I mean, what are they all making it up through? And the police, the captain Austin, I mean, he had strange things happening to him. Is that Mhmm. As a result of Latoya's mental illness or something? Yeah. That's that's Doesn't really make sense if if that's the only thing going on. Also during these evaluations, the kids talked about going into tranches, blocking out, seeing shadowy figures in their home, and doors and objects moving around on their own. And all three were convinced that demons were to blame and all their stories matched up. Child services officials gave LaToya supervised visits with her kids but she wasn't allowed to discuss demonic possession or anything related to the haunting. And discipline had to be completely separated from religion. And in order to get her kids back, she needed to find work and a new place to live that the kids didn't believe was infested with demons. That was like the conditions. Stress. Obviously, Latoya is just absolutely a wreck this entire time without her kids, and it made finding a job very difficult, but she started working on that right away because she wanted to get her kids back. The police in DCS visited the house again for an inspection, and this time Valerie refused to go. As she was traumatized by what she had witnessed in the hospital. And she still had no rational explanation for little boy walking up the wall and across the ceiling. This affected her so much that she actually quit her job with the Department of Child Services soon after. That hospital event and left Gary Indiana altogether as well. I mean that tells you so much. Multiple people. Yeah. Captain Austin went to the house with two other police officers again and they met employee Rosen father Mike and their new DCS caseworker, Samantha Ielik. And most of the group went straight to the Ammons, the supposed source of the paranormal activity in the house, but Samantha noticed a thick liquid dripping from the ceiling. And when she touched it, She said it was slick but not sticky. Oh, there's a no way I would touch it to find out what it was like. Oh, no. No. No. And the men all looked all over there trying to figure out where is this liquid coming from, but they could not find a source. Father Mike and the police officers wanted to go see what was under the stairs for them self. I mean, they're expecting to see, you know, a dead body or, you know, remains or a pentagram or something. You know, that would indicate there is some type of ritual. That had happened or something terrible I had just taken place in the basement. So an officer dug a large hole in the dirt about four feet down And when they did, they found a bunch of random objects, which is kinda creepy. They found creepy. They found a press on pink fingernail, a pair of white women's underwear, a comb, a red 10 to children's socks with the bottoms, cutoff, candy wrappers, a shirt pin, and a heavy metal a press on pink finger nail, a pair of white women's underwear, a comb, a red pin, two children's socks with the bottoms cut off, candy wrappers, a shirt pin, and a heavy metal bar. So somebody had buried these objects under the stair. That is so fucking scary. To me that that that screams something ritualistic. Yeah. Mhmm. For sure. Totally. I don't know what ritual that would be, but it's not a good one. That's for sure. After pulling these objects out, they filled the hole and then father Mike spread less salt around the area as well as all around the Ammons, and then the group went back upstairs to keep looking around. Dozers found that slick oily substance on the blinds of one of the bedrooms that had been there before. The oil was actually coming from between the LaToya. like before, they checked everywhere and they couldn't find a source for this liquid. Okay. This house needs to be like bulldozed completely. Well, that's pretty much what happens. Oh, really? Yeah. That's how bad it gets. Yeah. So they gets. So they photograph the liquid, they cleaned off the blinds, they shut the door, they put a Q-tip in the door to make sure no one could go in without them the liquid. They cleaned off the blinds. They shut the door. They put Q tip in the door to make sure no one could go in without them knowing and they left for about forty minutes while the priest blessed the house. And when they came back, the q tip was right where they left it, but the oily substance was back on the blinds. They're absolutely positive that no one had been in that room and there was nothing coming from outside the house through the window or the ceiling. So they had no idea what it was. That's kind of good trick, the Q Tip thing. Yeah. Never heard of that. I mean, if it a q tip, it could be a lot of different types of objects, but just something to signal to you whether or not something changes. Yeah. Mhmm. Samantha actually reached out and touched this oily liquid on the blinds with her left hand, and she said that the skin from her fingertips all the way to her wrist turned white like a ghost. Like that pun. And that literally all the blood seemed to drain away from her hand when she touched this liquid, whatever it was. She also felt a terrible pain in her pinky finger, it felt all tingly, and it felt like it had just been smashed under a heavy weight. Or that it had been broken. Holy shit. Just from touching this liquid. So whatever the hell is what is this like demon puke These people are rave trying to figure this out. I would be so far away from all of this. No way I could handle anything like this. I'd be running out of That's crazy. And then literally a few minutes after touching it. She has a full on panic attack. Uh-huh. Has to go outside, refuses to come back in because she's probably like, oh my god. What just what just happened to my hand? I'd be like, Sionara done hand? I'm with this. Yeah. So shortly after all this went down, LaToya felt this familiar headache she had when she was inside of the house. The pain shot into her shoulders, and she'd had enough and went outside with Samantha as well. Captain Austin, who is very seasoned police officer, who's investigated cold blooded killers, violent rapists, he's even been shot at in the line of duty, but literally nothing scared him like being in this house. There's actually some clips of him talking about this. All of a sudden, while I'm involved in this conversation, the AMFM radio went to STACK. And turned up very loud and he said, you and there and a personal phone say, what the hell was that? And I said, I don't know. I feel that it's some berry bag going on in that house. Captain Austin then went outside as the sun was going down too refused to be inside the house after dark. Father Mike stepped onto the poor twelve captain Austin was checking on Samantha. He stopped and stared straight ahead in his face turned wide as a sheet. The captain called out, father, what's wrong? And the priest answered calmly. The blinds are dripping. Oh, no. No. No. No. So after the second go around for father Mike, he's like, alright, we gotta get an exercise in here. Pronto because this is just getting crazy. So in crazy. So in the Catholic church, there is a whole order to making this Catholic church, there is a whole order to making this happen. You actually have to go up the chain in the Catholic church to get exorcism issued basically. Wow. It has to be, like, approved before somebody will actually come out and do an exorcism. There's There's actual process to exercise. Yes. There is. I did not know that. Yes. And there are still to this day modern exercise. There's a great -- Mhmm. -- I think vice interview with a modern exorcist out there who's still doing exorcisms. It's really actually, really interesting stuff. So father Mike, he has to get permission from the bishop of the Diocese of Gary. And the bishop had been in this Diocese for twenty one years and had never given any one permission to perform in exorcism. So at first when Father Mike asked, the request was denied and the bishop told him to talk to other priests first who may have experienced these kinds of things before. So when he before. So when he went and talked to some of these other priests, they recommended that he do basically a minor exorcism there's other rituals that they can do that are not a full-blown exorcism and they didn't need to be approved by the and talked to some of these other priests, they recommended that he do basically a minor exorcism. There's other rituals that they can do that are not a full blown exorcism, and they didn't need to be approved by the bishop. But the purpose of this particular ritual was to basically agitate the demons and hope that they might leave, which seems like a very bad idea, to stoke and poke the demons. Stoke in order to get them. Yeah. Stoke them up and kick them out. But obviously, when you do this, there's a chance that you could anger them and things could go really bad or put people in danger. Father Mike literally researched how to perform this ritual on the Internet. And once he felt like he was confident in doing it, he got the ball rolling. So first he met LaToya at the house and he did what he called an intense blessing. And then they were met by two police officers as well as Samantha the caseworker even came out for this. And for two hours, father Mike said prayers, he recited scripture and ordered the demons to leave her at once. I'm surprised a man that came back out. I mean, she's brave. Good for her. Yeah. I couldn't do it. I mean, she's skeptical though. She's very skeptical about what's going on. But even after what Yeah. Even after that whole thing. Yeah. Could you be She knows what's happened to her. Right. But most people don't believe in Ammons, so you're just like, what the hell's going Answer. She wants Right. She wants to know try to figure out what's going on. Yeah. I I don't know. Bancers would The answers would drive me to be anywhere near that me to be anywhere near that shit. I just cannot Ammons. Well, it gave her shelves. Side of that. The the whole Little minor exercising gave her chills, and everyone who witnessed the ritual felt like there was another presence in the room that wasn't any of them. It was as if they were being watched super closely by someone who's super pissed off that, like, wanted to hurt them. Oh my god. Mhmm. So after this minor exorcism was completed, father Mike told the toy to pay close attention to how she felt. He also felt. He also said that the ritual would have more ritual would have more power if they could name the demons. Demons have individual personalities Laundrie each have their own preferred methods for torturing people and their souls. So LaToya and a friend spent hours online researching demons and finding the names of those that fit with their experiences. And I'm not gonna utter these demons names because I have done this in the past, and I am concerned that perhaps that may have something to do with the activity in here. Is that what your new one lights out? I have uttered a number of different Ammons names. And after the fact, I realized that probably wasn't a good idea because -- No. -- if you call out to them, sometimes they find their way to you. So, basically, started figure you know, they start LaToya started looking into different demons and, you know, they have different personalities and things that they do. And one of this particular demons is known to be lord of the flies. So it started kind of registering with her, like, oh, maybe the swarms of flies. I I saw. Wait. Why was this demon known to be lord of flies? How do they know that? People that have experiences with this particular demon oftentimes have swarms of flies that show up unexpectedly. So they all they all have their sort of different things. So some things. So some of the demons could be a particular demon could have something to do with the liquid that's coming the demons could be a particular demon could have something to do with the liquid that's coming down. Like, they have their own sort of traits. They exhibit when they are manifesting themselves. But LaToya was researching this particular demon, the computer actually kept shutting down for no reason, she said. She also felt sick the entire time she was researching it. She was very dizzy and light headed and had to take several breaks. And when her symptoms that she was experiencing continued, father Mike was finally able to get permission from the bishop in order to perform a full exorcism, which was more powerful than the minor right that he'd already performed. Now father Mike, not the most experienced person on exorcisms. I mean, do you even know how to do the minor right? He had Right. He had to look it up on the internet and he claims to have performed three exorcisms on Latoya in June, 2012, all at his to look it up on the Internet. And he claims to have performed three exorcisms on Latoya in June twenty twelve, all at his church. So which I'm is interesting to me, there's definitely I don't know. I don't know. I don't I think there's some information missing there because I'm like, the bishop okied a priest that had never done an exorcism before to do three exorcisms on LaToya. Something's not adding up there. I've always I've always had questions around that. But then again, all all stuff related exorcisms in the church are very Hush hush. There's a lot of, like, it's very secret, you know. The the Catholic church in a lot of ways is like a secret society if you really think about it. Absolutely. They keep everything very tight and especially when it comes to this kind of stuff, it's all very on a need to know basis for sure. basis. For during these exorcisms, There was actually police officers who witnessed them. But Samantha said, hell no. I'm not gonna witness these exorcisms. And she refused to work on the case anymore at that point. Okay. So she point. So she was like, I'm a fuck that shit like, I'm a fuck that shit. I'm out. Protect yourself. Mhmm. I would do same thing. So again, father Mike, he said his prayers, we decided scripture. He's doing all the exorcism things. He's, you know, trying to instigate, try to get this demon riled up in order to basically cast cast the demon out. He's putting the crucifix against Latoya's head in order to do so. And as he spoke, Latoya convuls. And the convulsions got more violent as he continued. It seemed as if the demons were fighting back. Because at this point, I think it's pretty obvious that LaToya is possessed. I mean, she's possessed by some force that is causing her to have all these symptoms to convulse when having the crucifix press to her head And LaToya tried to pray with the priest, but praying cost such intense pain throughout her body that she eventually had to stop. And she literally explained that this pain was more intense than childbirth. Holy shit. Having a demon cast out of you was more painful than childbirth, which I don't think there's anything more painful than natural childbirth. It was something deep inside of her. Being, like, ripped out. Oh, no. And that it was like, as it's, like, coming out, it's, like, clinging to the insides of your body. Oh, that makes sense. Scared. A nasty little being being inside her body. it. Scraping the inner world. Movie. Yeah. This poor woman -- Yeah. -- literally. And it got so bad that after a while, she eventually passed out. And later, she said the presence inside her forced her to fall asleep in order to help make the ritual less effective. The priest effective. The priest took a break of several days or weeks in between each of the three exorcisms because it was that taxing and exhausting for Latoya and a break of several days or weeks in between each of the three exorcisms because it was that taxing and exhausting for LaToya and painful, and she obviously needed time to rest up and heal in between them. During this time, Latoya and Rosa found a place to live in Indianapolis and father Mike came and blessed their new home. And before home. And before the last exorcism, Latoya was suffering with terrifying the last exorcism, Latoya was suffering with terrifying nightmares. She called nightmares. She called father Mike who's out of town on a Mike who's out of town on a retreat, and luckily he had a backup plan to help her. His assistant had written the name of a demon on a piece of paper, put it in an envelope put a ring of blessed salt around it. And if LaToya had these nightmares, the assistant was instructed to perform a ritual where she burned the envelope and the noted side, saved the ashes and put them in a bonfire at the church. And once this ritual was completed, apparently, Latoya's nightmare stopped and never came back. Toward the end of June, Father Mike performed the final exorcism in Latin, which made it even more powerful than the first two which were done in English. And this time, the priest asked his brother to witness the ritual and stand by in case help was needed. And this final one, there was no police officers there at all. This final all. This final exorcism was very intense, but instead of getting progressively worse throughout the duration of it, Latoya's symptoms actually got was very intense, but instead of getting progressively worse throughout the duration of it, LaToya symptoms actually got better. And by the very end, she stopped convulsing as the priest said the final prayer. But as soon as that was done, she passed out Laundrie said words of Thanksgiving and ended the ritual. Thanksgiving. Yeah. Like Oh. Banking. They like to give you the Right. You know, like, he pulled the turkey out need to start carbon? Yep. Yep. No. No. Okay. Sorry. But after sorry. But after this final exorcism, Latoya stopped experiencing all of her paranormal symptoms and she never needed another exorcism out for final exorcism, LaToya stopped experiencing all of her paranormal symptoms. And she never needed another exorcism after this. Really? It was as if the demons had left her. Wow. She got her kids back? That November, and they moved into their new home in Indianapolis. They had been separated for their mother for six months. Yeah. That's wonderful. So obviously, the kids were just ecstatic to see their mom again, and she said it was the happiest she'd ever been. Jesus, the amount of trauma this family went through during this time -- Ammons luckily, when they moved into their new home, they never experience anything supernatural whatsoever. Wow. I think that. And they had another caseworker, actually, a new one. Who last saw the family in January ten two thousand thirteen, and she wrote, quote, no demonic presences or spirits in the home. And this was actually put in her report, and eventually the case was actually closed in February two thousand thirteen. But there are literally over eight hundred pages of official records about this haunting, including reports from child services, the police, as well as interviews with police officers, caseworkers psychologists, father Mike and the family. When Latoya family. When Latoya released these records to the Indianapolis star in 2014, she gave the medical reports as well as all the reports from these records to the Indianapolis star in two thousand fourteen. She gave the medical reports as well as all the reports from psychologists, but her only condition was that the children's names would remain anonymous, which I think was a very smart move on her part so that her kids aren't forever tied to this -- Right. -- this whole incident and this house. Mhmm. LaToya house. But a lot of what's written in these records is not flattering for her, her competency as a mother and her mental state were questioned multiple times, officials suggested she might be neglecting or abusing her kids, but she still released lot of what's written in these records is not flattering for her. Her competency as a mother and her mental state were questioned multiple times Officials suggested she might be neglecting or abusing her kids, but she still released them. She still released these reports that had this information in it. And she's explained that she knows what her family experience was real, and she real. And she believes it was God who got them out of it was God who got them out of it. And a lot of people have accused Latoya of making all this up. Obviously, and she's been outspoken about what she's experienced and she wants people to know the truth. But if you're gonna accuse her of making this up, you've got accuse everyone that was part of this investigation. Father Mike. Right. Samantha, the chief, hospital health Yeah. Well, multiple people Most doctors. Workers. Yeah. It's like Mhmm. -- doctor. Yeah. So you'd have to say, you know, if you think maybe there are parts that are are not necessarily authentic, but I agree with you. I think if you're gonna say, total bullshit, then you gotta say that all these people are all in on it and they're all just -- And for making shit up. No. There is nothing. No. Yeah. -- for what? Yeah. She's not like she got million dollars for faking this or, like, sold it. I'm not skeptical at all about this one. I think this skepticism also comes as a result of Zac Ammons getting involved -- Okay. -- which Zach, I'm actually a fan. I like the guy. Do I believe everything that he does on the show's real? No. So he hosts I think he's a great entertainer. What's on travel channel. He owns Entertainer. haunted museum in Vegas. Oh, right. You bet. He's got a ton of haunted objects. He's known to go and buy haunted houses, haunted objects. And that's exactly what he did. He wanted to come and make a he heard duck. He heard about the the story. Obviously, he was like blown away. And Let me let me actually just play a clip of him talking about this a little bit because it's actually kinda interesting to hear his perspective. I was intrigued I was intrigued by how many credible sources there were to experience by how many credible sources there were. TO EXPERIENCE THINGS. AND THESE WERE WITH PEOPLE THAT DIDN'T HAVE ANYTHING TO GAIN BY COMING OUT AND SAYING US. THESE WERE POLICE OFFICERS, Ammons, CHIEFS OF POLICE from three different jurisdictions, child protective services, everyone. But captain Charles Austin with the Gary Police Department looked at me in my eyes. And he said, the forces inside this house affect men electronically and women physically. So the physically. why I want to play that clip is because it kind of this kind of takes us into the the last section of of sort of this episode where we talk about Zack Bagan's experience in the house. He made this film called Ammons which a lot of people like, obviously, Zach's coming in to try to capitalize off his story and make it little insensitive. And make interesting, you know, try to try to well, he approached the film as a doc commentary. He was really trying to make a documentary. What's trying to make a paranormal documentary is very, very hard. But I can see why he wanted to do that considering there were elements of this. That can be proven. Right. Right. Got interviews with the police, with everybody spoke in it. That's really interesting. Where I think he kinda went wrong a little bit because, again, this film has thirty three percent rotten to me. It was really Oh, really? Yeah. I got to like, I would say most people watched it and we're like, like, this just kinda like ruin the whole thing and kind of really didn't help the Ammons. Like, it was just so anxious. A bit. Yeah. Because it it also became about Zac. Mhmm. And here's why. Mhmm. So it really got wild because Zac claims that the demon that's in this house is this goat figure. Which Zach claims to have been visited by in a nightmare that he had. Where he was apparently hanging out with spirits Laundrie the dream he saw twelve foot tall goatman in an open doorway. In this dream, this goat man forced Zach to inhale black smoke that came from its mouth. And when he woke up, he said his lungs were in pain and he could barely breathe. And he claims that this all happened before he even heard about LaToya story. But within days of having this dream, it was everywhere. The story of LaToya was everywhere, and that's how he heard about it. And that's when he started making phone calls and he ended up buying the house. Zach went and bought Latoya's house. Oh, well, house. Oh, well I guess there is a buyer out there for every guess there is a buyer out there for every house. Yep. Zach bought it for thirty five thousand bucks. A hell of a deal. That's a that is a help. That is a deal. Honestly, I I don't know if I could pass that up. I would up. I would, I'd be interested in that too, but you would never let me do I'd be interested in that too. But you would never let me do that. So Never that. So never, never, never never. So he bought it from the current owner. So LaToya left the house, and this was really when the story broke was when she'd already moved to Indianapolis. The owner Charles Reid sold it to Zach. And because Charles is like, I can't do anything with it. It's haunted as fuck. And now it's got, like, you know, people random, almost people coming in and and squatting in and stuff like that. So Zach bought it for cheap. And he got his crew together Laundrie went out to Gary and he didn't start filming. And he started working on this film, Ammons to try to do a paranormal investigation on it. What's interesting is that shortly after buying the house, he got a call from a psychic medium named Chris Fleck. And Chris Fleck had a very stern warning to Zach. Chris said the house's guardian. The demonic guardian of this house was in fact a twelve foot tall goat man. That's terrible. Truly an evil presence and that he should stay away. Well, Zach away. Well, Zach was like, wait a was like, wait a minute, I had minute. I had a dream about this exact same figure you're speaking a dream about this exact same figure you're speaking about. So now I have to go investigate this house. Mhmm. So Again, this is Zach has got a lot of the people, like, either Zach as a toll fraud, trying to capitalize and stuff. Zach claims he's basically psychic. He's got the ability to see spirits, and he's in tune with all of it. I mean, that. I mean, he surrounds himself with haunted surrounds himself with haunted shit So you can take that for what it is. It could just be all a way to create a personality for yourself. I mean, yourself. I mean, he's made a lot of money off of made a lot of money off of his famous because he's kinda this paranormal dude that's telling the truth. Or he's legit. I mean How do you know? I don't know him personally, so I don't judge him on that. I I take his word for it until obviously, I know they fake shit on ghost adventures because they have to and they pretty much admit that they do that in order to make the episodes more interesting. Yeah. So definitely. So it's hard. It's very hard. It's hard to really know what's true and what's not. Yeah. He's been he's also been doing ghost adventures for, like, twelve years, though. Like, he's been doing this for a long, long, long time. Yeah. Years. He's long. Yeah. Yours made his whole career around his whole career around, apparently, now it's Hana Museum is, like, popping, man. That plays out. In Vegas. Yeah. And this is why I wanted to go I wanna go there eventually is because he's got a lot of really interesting stuff that come from the most random, not just like cursed objects, but he's got clothing or items or paintings from serial killers to all sorts of different types of people. I've promised Josh I've promised Josh that I would go to this museum with that I would go to this museum with him, but I've got to say I'm terrified go in there. It I mean Well, you literally sign a waiver when you go in. You sign a waiver. Let's but nobody everybody's fine. People feel like little tax. Nobody's actually they just had one person pass out in there. Granted objects don't really freak me out. I think out. I was post Malone or some or Oh, right. Yeah. I remember yeah. I remember Malone had really weird experience. Yeah. He did. And he opened the the box. The Civic box. The Civic box. The Civic box. Yeah. I do remember that. Which is his most haunted object That's in the don't wanna It's in the basement, though. It's a it's a It's even worse than the basement. That's so scary. It's like What if something that attaches to us when we leave the museum. We're not allowed to touch on that. He let Post Malone do it because he's Post Malone. The only time I've ever been around haunted objects was at the Stanley Hotel. We did a tour, and they had this one they had a couple things. But the thing that freaked me out the most was this haunted mirror that they say if you look in it, you can see a face. A haunted mirror. Just being near this mirror gave me the worst feeling I've ever had in my life. So I'll probably just be terrified the entire time, but I'll do it for you. I'll be you. Okay. So Zach goes to the house -- Mhmm. -- but he wants to interview Latoya and the family about it. So he tried to track them down at their new home in Indianapolis. He tried to call them several times, but LaToya never called them back. Yeah. She probably wants nothing to do. Right. Right. Right. I'm trying to get on with my light here. You're trying to bring me back into it for your film. Yeah. So he actually goes to Indianapolis and he knocks on her door. And Latoya's brother Kevin answers and explains that Latoya and Rosa refused to talk to Zac because he had been in the house. So they're worried that now whatever was in the house is attached to Zach and Zach could bring it to their new home. They've been through enough, leave them alone. But I was also, like, Yeah. Dude, what do you think? Just going to their house like that. Don't you think they're terrified of anybody that's still going -- Yeah. -- into that house? Yeah. So, yeah, house. So yeah, he wasn't able to get Latoya in his film because they didn't want to take any or Rosa or anybody who's actually lived in the house, but Kevin agreed to he wasn't able to get Latoya in his film. Mhmm. Because they didn't wanna take it or Rosa or anybody who's actually lived in the house. But Kevin agreed to talk. Who's her brother? Right. So he'd actually drove around with Zach in the film and explained that his sister gave him strict instructions not to ever set foot in the house. And he actually talked about how the haunting affected his nephews and niece, and he witnessed possession firsthand when they stayed with him for a few days. In fact, he'd heard the sound of one of his nephews getting thrown across a room and crashing into a wall, and another day the kid started to chant in his living room. And started with his youngest nephew and moved on from kid to kid. He also witnessed his nephews of fighting with their grandmother, attacking each other in the back seat saying crazy crazy things that young kids shouldn't say to their grandmother. So he kinda gave him some of the information about you know, what the what LaToya family had experience for his film. But what's crazy is that after Kevin met with Zach, they wouldn't let him back in the house. Well, Toyota wouldn't let him back in. Really? You're a brother? Yeah. Did he ever get Let me back in, like Yeah. I believe so. I think that a cleanse so. I think he had to get cleanse get cleanse first. Yeah. Whole. But they didn't just let right after sitting with Zach, they didn't let him, like, just come right back in the house. Totally understand where she's coming from. I would be the same way. Why would you take any more chances with what you're been through? Stay the fuck away. Mhmm. Me. All like, all of that just would not want anything to do with it ever again. Mhmm. Exactly. She was worried something would transfer -- Yeah. -- to Kevin. Mhmm. So that's and Kevin. So that's, and that's the other kind of point of contention is the fact that Latoya is not involved with this film at the other kind of point contention is the fact that Latoya is not involved with this film at all, even though the whole story pretty much centers around her. But now it's centering around Zach and his experience with his goat man. So even though LaToya refused to actually talk to Zach in two thousand LaToya and father Mike signed a movie deal with Evergreen Media Holdings with Zach in order to put this film out. So after talking to Kevin and hearing LaToya family's version of events, he tracked down father Mike, Captain Austin, and others who had been in the house to get the rest of the story. And they told him the terrifying details of the possessions, the haunting, and the exorcisms, and the people who were squatting in the house as well as the previous owner Charles Reid all commented that there is no haunting in that house that the squaders and the new owner had not experienced anything at all. I was wondering about that. The people squatting there, did they have any issues -- Mhmm. -- and the previous owner. Mhmm. But but that was just coming from Charles. Now Zach actually went in there and paid the squatters to leave, and one of the men who were living there said that he had seen some shit. Which I don't know what that exactly what that But again, conflicting accounts here. But Zach here. But Zach then found out that Latoya stepmother told the media that she and other members of the family were very upset that their names were being dragged into all of found out that LaToya stepmother told the media that she and other members of the family were very upset that their names were being dragged into all of this. And she this. And she denied that there was anything supernatural happening to Latoya and her kids, a photo had been linked online of a ghost in the house, his front window that upset the family even more because the house was supposedly empty when the photo was that there was anything supernatural happening to Latoya and her kids. A photo had been linked online of a ghost in the house's front window that upset the family even more because the house was supposedly empty when the photo was taken. So creepy. Yeah. There's some type of figure standing. What a scary looking at it. Is that verified? Could that have been photoshopped or edited in any way? Do we know that that's a real photo? It was leaked online so we don't know for sure. I mean, it -- Yeah. -- according to this photo, it says Hammond Police Department. So Perhaps department. So perhaps it was a police photo that was taken, which I think is the was a police photo that was taken, which I think is the case. And after the fact they noticed that in the picture and it leaked, to the public somehow. This is the demon house. It does say him in his department. I mean, there's clearly something in there too. So after this, Zach decided to have the house inspect which seems like a smart thing to do. Right? Well, the inspector found toxins like mold, asbestos, and carbon monoxide. Which could have caused some of the symptoms like headaches, disorientation, and mood swings. Or those things Or those things were in there because of the haunting in the house that in there because of the haunting in the house. Right. Right. Or because the house was seemingly abandoned for a while kinda all got out of hand too -- Mhmm. -- since there was squaddlers there and stuff. Plus there was liquid oozing out Mhmm. -- could have created who even knows what that was. Who really knows? But just as he was starting to have doubts about The whole story with LaToya and everything, he met Mika. And Mika had lived there in the nineties with her mother, and she had brought her three kids to see the house and actually talk to Zach. She told him when a friend of hers would stay at the house, she heard footsteps and people walking around who weren't there. And as they walked around and talked, she told him she had never been in the basement before, but she agreed to go down with Zac and her kids. When they got to the bottom of the step, she immediately accused one of the kids of kicking her. And when her. And when reviewing the video later, Zach saw her leg buckle, but no one had actually kicked her going down to the the video later, Zach saw her leg buckle, but no one had actually kicked her going down to the basement. Fuck. She then explained that her brother used to live in basement and that the backroom was his bedroom. And around that time, she was having dreams that someone she knew would die, but no one in her family would listen. But soon after this, her brother was actually shot and killed. So obviously, kinda going back over this really upset her and she's you definitely wanna get out of the basement. Mika's son told Zach he was really scared to be inside the house and asked if the ghosts would fall them home. And that's when Mika's microphone picked up a voice that said, run LaToya. What? Yeah. Oh, no. So rather than just bulldozing the house at this point, Zach, and his crew decided to set up an altar in the living room and in the basement. Oh, fun. Mhmm. K? And then Fun. is for me, this was, like, where a lot of stuff is, like, you know, he's, like, sometimes he'll do the same way he randomly will, like, shove a crew member. Like, he says he gets these angry, like, feeling? Imulses over him starts, like, lashing out, doing, like, crazy shit and, like What? So he said that this kind of stuff started happening and started freaking everybody else out on the crew. So he shoved a member in his crew and then told them to get the fuck out. Mhmm. And this out. And this was captured on was captured on surveillance camera. Yeah. And Saturday. afterwards, Zach had no memory of what had happened. So similar to what Latoya or her kids had actually gone through, but this was Zach now, which I don't know. And when you watch it, you'd be like, I don't know there. That seemed a little little dramatic there. That's the problem with some of these ghost hunting documentaries or shows is if they can't find anything interesting that's happening to use, they start making things up. And that up. And that happens so so often, and that's what makes me question some of this. Mhmm. And I'll blame you. I mean, it's we're we're just program this way to be skeptical of things that we can't prove. Right? We we don't have tangible ways to prove. And with TV -- Mhmm. -- and movies and films whether you call it documentary or not. I mean, tons of documentaries kinda like add some yeah. Or to try to make it a little bit more interesting to watch. So who really knows? But apparently, a neighbor called the cops about this whole incident because they thought Ammons like trying to break into the house. Eventually, the cops came there and they were, you know, talking to them and all that. And there's this whole ordeal. And some of the police officers that came didn't even wanna go anywhere near the house because they were worried about what might fall them home. Within the next day, Zac talked to Valerie Washington, the first case worker for the family. So there was a lot of different things that happened during the the filming of Ammons I mean, there's claims that people that came in left either filling completely off or developing medical conditions. People were affected mentally. I mean, it was just the whole filming of it was basically terrible experience so much so that Zach believes that the film itself is cursed. Of course, Ammons is cursed film. I'm Zach Ammons. I'm one of the world's leading researchers on ghosts and demonology. And this film is cursed. So the film was actually released on March sixteen two thousand eighteen. After listening to this, if you've never watched it before, I mean, it's worth a watch to kind of like put some of the visuals to some of the things we talked about. And and also just so you can kind of make up for in your own mind what you think about about Zac and about Latoya's story and the house as a whole. But after filming, Zac decided to have the house demolished. And the reason for this he said was because he didn't want anyone else to get hurt as a result of this house being there. After tearing it down, they took most of the debris and buried it in a landfill. But of course, Zac had to keep something from the house and what he kept was the basement stairs and some of the dirt, and then put it all in a storage unit. After the house was demolished, the police actually got multiple complaints of people performing satanic rituals. And the empty lot. I guess when the house was up too, there was, like, people that would go out and do, like, seances in the yard and stuff because they're, like, demon house. You know, let's try to see see if it's real. Is there any open portal? Exactly. They're like, let's go over there and see if we can make contact with anything. lot of people though in this town believe that this house was indeed built over a portal to hell or that a portal was opened inside of the home. And they hope that whatever was in the home or this portal was closed when the building was actually torn down. And I believe to this day there's nothing there's no, like, activity still going on after the house was demolished. People still go to the side of it and film it and everything, of course. But that was pretty much kind of the end of the demon house and this seemingly portal of hell that was opened by somebody who had lived in the house at one point, who had done a ritual. It seemed like under the stairs, but But, yeah, I mean, it's one of those where there's definitely a lot of evidence as far as witnesses go and their experiences. But then again, you know, we don't have the concrete proof that I think a lot of people would want in order to really affirm that this -- Yeah. -- was all real and that this happened. I totally get that. So, yeah, what do you guys think? Like, do you believe LaToya store? You think she really went through? I do because I do because wa I mean, what would be the point of making all this up and losing your child children first six months traumatizing I mean, what would be the point of making all this up and losing your child children for six months, traumatizing them And the fact that all these other credible witnesses saw this stuff just make -- And experienced stuff themselves. Mhmm. As a result of just going into the house. Right? So it's hard. It's very hard because I do because according to the reports, and the evaluations done, they all point to LaToya having pretty severe mental illnesses that may have resulted in a lot of the behavior and perhaps her children being raised under this would have been affected by it. But then again, I go back to Rosa, her mother who was with her the entire time. And people saw the kid walking up the wall You can't just fake that and train the kids to do some weird stunt and get them that then you gotta believe the kids are in on it too. I don't know. Right. This one normally, I'm skeptical, LaToya course, there's elements of this story and how this is all played out that I'm skeptical about. But I really I believe LaToya and her family and all these other people who saw this. In the police, I mean I think there's too many people to just say that it's all bullshit. Right. I I really do. I think that there's some real experiences that Ammons here. It's a really interesting one. Yeah. Isn't one. it? Like, there's just a lot Wow. It's good. Like, really scared me. Like, yeah. I'm a little spooked. Yeah. I feel very cold right now, but I can't tell if that's just because Could be the Doctor burn a metal box in the middle of a cold fall day. Definitely, I'm getting that creepy feeling, and I thought I was gonna be more skeptical about this. I ended up That's why I wanted to cover it on my heart because it's heart. Cause it's one of those that actually has decent media coverage actually has interviews that actually has police of those that actually has decent media coverage. It actually has interviews. It actually has place out in, like, a true yeah, it really does. Yeah. It really does. But with that being said, we wanna know what your guys' thoughts are, of course, on the story of the demon house and the terrible experience Latoya went through while living there. We wanna know if you guys think this is authentic or if you think that perhaps this was fake somehow. If you think this was all faked or hoaxed. I'd love to know how you think this happened, how what, you know, were they all and produced together. I wanna hear of your opinions I don't think there was that much money that was made as a result of the in house and all that. So it's hard to believe I don't really see the moment or the motives, the moment or the motive. Sorry. Right. Right. My brain is absolutely much for this week. But anyway, I hope you guys enjoyed that episode. I I certainly didn't find that very interesting. Well, we'll go ahead and wrap up today's episode there. Enjoyed this episode of Maher Podcast. Definitely let us know. Make sure you subscribe, YouTube, and Apple Podcasts. We'd really appreciate it. We will be back next week with another episode of the Myohair podcast, but until then, keep on taking your mind here.