0:00

My sister Amy was like, oh, you should fork at a

0:02

coffee shop, and I was like, whye,

0:07

that feels insulting. Not

0:09

insulting, because that's not But she

0:11

said you should work at Starbucks. They have great benefits.

0:14

And I was like, I that, or

0:17

you could believe in me, or

0:21

you could believe in my dreams.

0:25

Hey, good evening, and welcome to episode

0:27

one hundred and thirty five of Midnight

0:29

Chats. I'm Stuart Stubbs. Greg. Did

0:32

you think we would make it to one hundred and thirty

0:34

five episodes? That halloed number.

0:36

Yes, I did. I always knew we were going

0:38

to make it to one hundred and thirty five. And

0:41

in podcast years, that's like the podcast

0:43

years are like dogg years, aren't they. So isn't that like episode

0:46

nine hundred of podcasts or something like that?

0:48

It feels like nine hundred, isn't it? Sometimes?

0:51

I don't know. I think it feels like we're just starting

0:53

out.

0:53

I'll be honest. In that time one hundred and thirty

0:55

five episodes, we've actually only repeated

0:57

two guests until now. People

1:00

have been on twice and everyone else has

1:02

only been on once until tonight. Tonight,

1:04

it's the third repeated guest. There

1:07

are a few more coming up. We've recorded with some

1:09

of our favorite guests for this new series, but tonight's

1:12

episode is with Saint Vincent. Last

1:14

scene on the podcast in twenty

1:16

twenty one, episode one hundred and four. That

1:19

was when she was releasing her sixth

1:22

album, Daddy's Home. You did that interview.

1:24

I did this one. It was my turn to have a

1:26

chat with something. My turn to speak does

1:29

Saint Vincent. I wanted to speak to Annie

1:31

Clark. So she got a new album out,

1:33

That's why we're here. The new album is called Awborn

1:35

Screaming. It's her seventh album and it's her

1:37

first that she's completely produced

1:39

herself. We talk a little bit about it,

1:41

but to be honest, Greg, I do a very

1:43

good job of not really asking about it.

1:45

That's one of I'd say that's one of your strengths.

1:48

Like on this podcast, generally you do well

1:50

to sort of talk a bit about the thing that the artist

1:52

is promoting, but generally take the conversation

1:54

to other interesting areas. So shout

1:57

out to Ustu.

1:58

That's very kind of you to to put a positive

2:00

spill on it like that. I'm just aware of

2:02

the fact that there was a point There is a point in this that

2:05

has still made the edit where I say we should

2:07

talk about the album and then I think I ask

2:09

literally one question. That's

2:13

fine, but there's lots of good

2:15

bits on this. I enjoyed talking to her. She

2:18

I didn't know what I was

2:20

getting into, you know, because she's quite

2:23

She's got an intimidating reputation,

2:25

but she wasn't like that at all. She was

2:28

very cool, obviously, but very

2:32

funny as well. She's got some really good

2:34

jokes, clearly has a very good sense

2:37

of humor, quite dry, really

2:39

makes herself laugh in this really makes me

2:41

laugh. I really enjoyed talking to her. I mean,

2:43

I love this conversation. And aside for the

2:45

fact that I enjoyed Annie's one

2:48

liners, it

2:50

sounded really she just sounded really light

2:53

and in a kind of like more open

2:55

space than she did a couple of years ago when I spoke to

2:57

her on this that episode one oh

2:59

four, if people want to scroll back in

3:01

their feet to listen to that. And

3:04

it's just a massive privilege to have her on the podcast,

3:07

though, isn't it, Because in my mind, Saint

3:09

Vincent, one of the world's best

3:11

guitarists, incredible songwriter.

3:14

Mass Seduction would be in

3:16

if somebody asked me what are your top ten albums of all time?

3:18

It would be in there. That was the album from twenty seventeen.

3:20

I thought it was incredible, That's what

3:22

That's my favorite of her albums as well.

3:24

And I was late. I was late coming to s

3:27

Vincent's music, if I'm honest. People really loved

3:29

the albums before that, and when it got to Mass Seduction,

3:31

it turned a lot of people off, didn't it, Because people

3:34

didn't really like the electronic side of

3:36

it. And that was when I got involved, a

3:38

bit like when I started liking Coldplay

3:40

when they started sounding more like you too.

3:46

Excellent. We're all about the open emission.

3:49

You know the admissions

3:52

on this podcast. That was an overshare, wasn't

3:54

it. Oh no, you

3:56

did a little overshare. This

3:58

is fantasticated. Else to add before we get

4:00

into this conversation with Annie Clark.

4:02

The only thing I would say is that there is a

4:04

little bit of noise interference

4:07

in parts of this on Annie's

4:09

mic. It's not throughout

4:11

the whole thing, and hopefully you won't find it too distracting.

4:14

It's just one of those things that happens sometimes

4:16

when we record remotely, as we had

4:18

to in this instance. You know, we

4:20

don't know what the microphone situation is at

4:23

the other end, and I think what

4:25

it was was that Annie's

4:27

mike was rubbing on her headscarf that she

4:29

was wearing. There you go, Hopefully it's

4:31

not too distracting. Other than that, we're

4:34

ready to go fantastic.

4:36

Well, welcome to this episode of Midnight Chats,

4:38

the music interview podcast for late night listening.

4:40

Stu, it's your turn to spend some time with Annie

4:42

Clark, who joined you speaking for her home in

4:45

Los Angeles late one

4:47

evening, wearing a headscarf looking ultracol

4:49

Go and check out the clips that we'll share

4:52

on our Instagram, which is at Midnight Chats

4:54

pod.

4:55

But without further ado.

4:56

Stuart Stubbs speaking to Saint Vincent

4:59

on this week's Midnight Chats.

5:05

I watched your film today. Oh

5:08

God, I

5:13

really enjoyed it.

5:14

I'm glad this is.

5:16

The nowhere in I watched it this afternoon.

5:19

I'd been meaning to watch it for a while and I thought this is the

5:21

perfect opportunity to watch this film.

5:24

I really enjoyed it. I thought it was very funny

5:27

and equally as creepy.

5:30

It doesn't take much to creep me out,

5:32

to be honest, but I did enjoy it. This

5:35

is the mockumentary that you made in

5:37

twenty and twenty twenty one? Is

5:39

that right?

5:41

We made it in twenty nineteen and it came

5:43

out. It premiered at Sundance

5:46

twenty twenty, so it

5:48

premiered it the Super Spreader. Oh

5:50

yeah, probably probably

5:53

six weeks before the world shut down.

5:55

It's the mockumentary that you co wrote

5:58

and co starred in along with Carry Brown's Staying

6:00

Your Good Friends. Was it fun

6:02

to make?

6:03

Oh my god, it was so fun. Yeah,

6:05

it was so fun to make. I still

6:08

you know, as we know, you know, Hollywood

6:11

has has taken a little bit of a downturn

6:15

with things, and I'm like, I'm so glad,

6:17

glad that somebody gave us money

6:19

to make a movie. I do not think anyone would

6:21

give us money to make that movie now,

6:25

but yeah, I think. You know, it's

6:28

like it's the movie version

6:30

of a conversation that Carrie and I've been having

6:32

for years now about like

6:35

authenticity in a digital age,

6:38

and you

6:40

know, we got obsessed with watching

6:42

all of these films

6:44

from from pop stars or rock stars

6:47

or whatever that kind of have the

6:49

same premise, right, which is like, I'm just a

6:51

normal person, but I looking for love

6:53

or you know, wanting to have a family,

6:55

but I also happen to be the most famous

6:58

person in the world, So how do I how

7:00

can I possibly manage? And

7:03

you know, upon kind of further

7:05

inspection with those things, you go, like

7:08

knowing how the sausage gets made on my end, you could

7:10

kind of go, okay, well, all

7:13

of that may be true, but

7:15

also this is a piece of propaganda

7:17

meant to make you seem authentic and likable

7:21

to a crowd who's hungry to know you.

7:23

So what if we did the opposite, and

7:25

what if we were What

7:28

if we come out the other side completely

7:31

unlikable? And I'll say it was

7:33

really fun to do and fun to write and fun

7:35

to make. I don't know that

7:38

I think for my career, just

7:41

a piece of propaganda about how

7:43

lovely I am as a person. I'm just

7:45

a sweet girl trying to

7:47

make it through this world. Would

7:50

have been you know, probably would have been a

7:52

better choice, but I didn't

7:54

want to make propaganda. I wanted to make.

7:58

Art question Mark, Yeah, I

8:00

think it's hot.

8:02

Yeah, sure, sure.

8:03

When I just told you that I watched it today, what was

8:05

it that caused you to say, oh my god

8:08

in that way?

8:09

Well, just because I feel like I

8:14

feel like nobody liked it and nobody

8:17

so I'm always like, yeah, I mean

8:19

that's my general I mean that's

8:21

my sense of everything I

8:23

do. But no

8:26

that yeah, this feeling

8:28

like, oh, it was misunderstood

8:30

or something. But that's

8:33

fine.

8:33

Yeah, to anyone that hasn't seen it, could

8:36

you just give those people quick synopsis of the

8:38

premise.

8:39

Well, oh, buddy, well

8:42

okay, So I play myself

8:44

and Carrie plays herself, and she's

8:47

coming in to direct a movie

8:49

about Saint Vincent and you

8:51

know, directed tor movie and blah blah blah,

8:54

and she's not getting

8:56

any good content because I'm like, you

8:59

know, kind of just likes easy

9:01

and boring and like playing scrabble

9:03

after the shows and whatever. So Carrie

9:07

starts to do

9:10

increasingly monstrous things

9:12

to try to get me to,

9:16

you know, have more of a

9:18

story arc, right, And I,

9:20

in turn, knowing

9:24

that there are cameras on, start

9:28

becoming more and more down the rabbit

9:30

hole. Of like egotism and you

9:33

know, like make

9:35

a sex tape with Dakota Johnson. I mean,

9:37

I can't believe Dakota agree to be in the film, like,

9:40

you know, thank

9:42

god she's still talking to me. But like, you

9:44

know, I become monstrous

9:47

in when I get wrapped

9:49

up in my own persona, Carrie becomes

9:51

monstrous trying to make

9:55

something real and

9:59

then we both end up crazy.

10:02

Yeah, that's that's perfect. That's that's what

10:04

I saw. That's what I saw. Okay, good,

10:06

that's the first thing you've acted in, right, it

10:08

is?

10:09

And you know what's so funny. It

10:12

never occurred to me that I needed to

10:15

like it. I should have been

10:17

like, oh, I'm going to act in this movie. I

10:19

should probably, like I don't know, prepare

10:22

in any way, shape or form,

10:24

But I definitely didn't.

10:26

I just showed

10:29

up and was like, oh shit, I

10:31

have to act. Okay, so

10:34

you know.

10:35

You did a great job. Would you do more of it?

10:37

Or yeah? I would happily

10:39

do more. No, I would happily do more.

10:42

I I really, I

10:45

really enjoyed it doing it, and I really

10:48

I did. You

10:50

know, making

10:53

movies is such a different world than making

10:55

music because It's like, if I have

10:57

an idea for music, I can just like

11:00

go in my studio and make it

11:02

and call over one of my buddies and have them played

11:04

whatever you know, and then all of a sudden you have a

11:06

song and you didn't have to like call

11:10

and make sure that you got financing

11:13

to do the thing. Like it's so complicated,

11:15

this this sort of Hollywood thing. But

11:18

I would happily. I would happily be

11:22

in something else or do something else. I really

11:24

got a kick out of it, and I

11:26

auditioned for a few things and got

11:29

cast in things that

11:31

just are have never probably

11:34

will never be made.

11:35

Right, So you've been

11:38

cast in some things that haven't started to

11:40

Yes.

11:41

I've been casting things that will that no one,

11:43

no one will ever see because they will never

11:45

be made. So that there's a little

11:48

feather in my cap.

11:49

Did you do any of it at high school?

11:52

I'm sorry, I didn't realize in the press

11:54

sheet that they sent over that that president

11:57

of high school theater club was not top

11:59

of the list.

12:00

It was not there, it was not on there is

12:02

news.

12:03

Okay, well I'm going to have a word with someone

12:05

because that heads

12:08

will roll. No, I was

12:10

so nervous ever

12:13

being on stage, and kind of still am

12:15

in a way, you know, But I

12:19

fell in love with the theater.

12:22

I loved it so much. I had a great theater teacher

12:25

in Dallas, Texas Public School named

12:28

Tim Johnson, who was just like, read

12:30

the New York Times Arts section every

12:33

Sunday, and I'm

12:35

going to teach you. I'm going to give

12:39

you a crash course in modern

12:44

American theater. And

12:46

I just I loved it. I loved

12:48

everything about it, the staging and

12:51

the costumes and

12:54

the just I don't know.

12:56

This is this is why you'll get in the film. It's

12:58

in there somewhere, you know. It's just it's

13:00

in you. You've just not You've just not flexed

13:04

that muscle for some time until now. Maybe.

13:06

So where are you talking to me from today?

13:09

Are you in LA or are you in New York? Or

13:11

are you somewhere else?

13:12

I am in Los Angeles, Okay,

13:15

that's where I am.

13:16

So your studio is in LA. Isn't

13:18

it compound? Yeah,

13:21

that's like a proper studio. Oh isn't it. It's not

13:23

like your It's not like a room in

13:25

your house that you've turned into a studio.

13:27

It's like a totally separate place. Is that right?

13:30

Well, funny you should ask it.

13:32

It was technically a

13:35

house where I

13:38

had a bedroom and

13:40

ate, but for the most

13:42

part, like most of the house

13:45

was just a recording studio, like

13:48

like the thing that would have been the living room,

13:50

the dining room, the I

13:52

don't know, like every pretty

13:54

much every room was like miked

13:57

up. So it was

13:59

there was no So what's this

14:01

thing people talk about work life balance, It's

14:03

not. It's like, no, my whole house

14:06

was a studio. So I've since like

14:10

sold the house and the studio and

14:12

I'm in the process of building a different studio

14:15

because I think it's really important to kind of build new spaces

14:17

to work, you know, get new things, new ideas.

14:19

But I

14:23

it was a blessing

14:25

in the sense that I mean I love

14:28

to wake up and work, you know, a little waken

14:30

big you know what I'm saying, because

14:33

I just feel like that's when my brain

14:35

is sort of fresh. But then I

14:39

like to you

14:41

know, whether it's like have a glass to have

14:43

a glass of wine and then go back at night and

14:46

continue working. You kind

14:48

of have a different there's a very different mentality.

14:51

I think morning work versus

14:53

night work. Night work is like you

14:57

you're impued with a little bit

14:59

more like mystery and

15:01

anything can happen at night. So

15:04

I liked to kind of do that. But

15:06

it is also I

15:09

was living on a hill where there was

15:11

no way to like you can like walk down

15:13

it to go like grab a coffee. It was just like on

15:15

top of a hill

15:17

in a studio, in a house that was mostly a

15:19

studio, and it

15:22

was like this

15:24

this like quiet siren. Whatever

15:28

I wasn't working. I was like, what

15:30

do you think you're doing? What do you

15:32

think you're doing? So it's a little bit

15:34

maddening, I'll be honest. But

15:37

a great a great place, and miraculously

15:40

like had a drum room that

15:43

just sounded amazing, and you know, all the

15:45

stuff that just

15:47

just just happened to be that happened to be great.

15:49

Well, congratulations on the new album Opal

15:51

and streaming. It's been out for

15:54

what maybe a month now, I.

15:56

Guess it's been out

15:58

for two and

16:00

a half weeks.

16:01

Two and a half weeks. Okay, how are you feeling

16:04

about it now? Two and a half weeks into release?

16:06

I think that And

16:10

let me just like wax poetic

16:12

for a second. But like I think the job

16:14

of music and what I've always looked

16:16

to music to do is like music

16:20

reveals the listener to

16:22

themselves. So in

16:25

a certain way, songs don't start

16:27

to have real

16:30

lives until they

16:35

become a part of other people's lives. And

16:39

for me, my ethos is

16:42

like it's

16:44

yours now, like do what you will with

16:46

it. There's no like wrong interpretation,

16:49

there's no I don't need to be constantly like

16:51

raising my hand and pointing,

16:53

you know, pointing back to me and

16:56

what I did or my you

16:58

know, well, this is what I was going through. Whatever

17:00

you were feeling doesn't matter. This is about me.

17:03

No, that's not it. It's about

17:05

It's about It's about that like generative

17:08

kind of generosity,

17:11

I guess, because when

17:15

I love something, I

17:18

love it because of the way it makes me feel

17:20

and the way it makes me think.

17:23

And I don't really care besides,

17:28

you know, wanting generally wanting the best

17:30

for human beings on the planet, I

17:33

don't really care what the artist was thinking

17:35

or going through or how it

17:37

connects the dots to their life.

17:39

So you don't see as a fan and

17:42

as a listener, you don't get hung up

17:44

on You don't want to necessarily

17:46

know exactly what that lyric

17:49

means or where this theme

17:51

comes from. Like that doesn't bother you as a fan. You're

17:54

just like, I'm just going to take from this song. What I take from

17:56

it and what it's actually where

17:59

it's actually come from is just not for me

18:01

at all.

18:02

I just think songs are or shack tests

18:04

for the listener. And again it's about

18:06

like what

18:08

what it's You know, if I

18:10

exposed myself, then

18:14

people can hear it, take

18:16

it and expose themselves

18:19

to themselves.

18:20

You know.

18:21

Sure. Yeah, talking of

18:24

studios, I know that you recorded

18:26

at least one bit at

18:28

Steve Albini's place in

18:31

Chicago.

18:31

Yeah, yeah, was.

18:32

That with Albini or was it the.

18:35

Space Steve was

18:37

out of town? God damn

18:39

it. But yeah, we were on tour

18:42

with Roxy Music and we had a couple of days

18:44

so we

18:49

uh went

18:51

to me and Justin Meldel Johnson and

18:53

Mark Juliana and Kean Reardan

18:56

my engineer, went and

18:58

did some basic tracking or all Born

19:00

Screaming. We did some things for Broken

19:03

Man, we did some things for Big Time. Nothing.

19:07

What else did we work on over there? But

19:09

yeah, but I mean Steve's electric

19:12

Steve's studio is amazing and I've

19:14

been there once before working with the Polyphonic

19:16

Spree and like two

19:18

thousand and five, sure, so

19:22

it was very cool to be back. But

19:24

unfortunately, no, he was out of town so I missed

19:26

him, but that

19:30

is Yeah, I feel

19:33

so bad for his family and

19:35

team. But I know also my

19:37

friend John Congleton that you know, Steve

19:39

kind of kind

19:42

of took him under his wing, you know, and

19:44

raised him and you know, taught

19:47

him everything he knew and

19:49

everything. So I feel bad

19:51

for my friend Johns

19:54

especially.

19:55

There's been so many really

19:57

nice messages and memories

19:59

that people have been sharing since last week's

20:01

news about Steve

20:03

Albini sadly passing away unexpectedly,

20:06

and I saw some from John as well, and

20:09

everyone sort of has had

20:12

so much respect for that man and the way that he conducted

20:14

himself and the way that he you know, went about

20:17

his just everything he did.

20:19

Essentially, when you when you were there

20:21

with Polyphonic Experience two thousand and five, was he

20:23

there then? Did you? Did you got to work with him?

20:25

Then he was there,

20:27

but he didn't he wasn't recording the

20:30

Polyphonic sperience. He was there and mostly

20:32

playing, mostly either

20:35

playing online poker or watching

20:38

poker tournaments on Big TV.

20:41

Oh yeah, because he was a big poker guy.

20:43

Was Yeah, I was really really into poker.

20:45

But I just love like in this day and age

20:48

when everybody has to be a politician,

20:51

like Steve Albini just like said

20:54

what he fucking thought. And you

20:57

know, you know, he didn't mince words. You weren't

20:59

like where where do I stand? He's

21:02

just like a real one, you

21:04

know.

21:04

Yeah.

21:05

I don't know if you've have you read that book Our

21:07

Band Could Be Your Life? Have you ever read

21:10

that?

21:10

Yeah?

21:11

Yeah, the chapter about Big Black is so it's

21:14

got so much, so many good quotes from him,

21:16

and certain parts of

21:18

him being so on it

21:20

brutally honest with the bands he was recording,

21:23

a sort of being like, I think you're band

21:25

at rubbish, but I will record the band because

21:27

that's my job and that's what I'm beaud to do and

21:29

I will happily do that for you. There was some

21:32

really good messages online from Damien

21:34

from Fucked Up, who said, yeah, Steve

21:37

recorded our Annie absolutely hated us, but we always

21:39

already respected him for being so honest about

21:41

it and just straight out to her face.

21:43

You know, my god, that's so great

21:45

in a world of yes men. He was like, yeah,

21:49

it was. But I like but there was like a blue

21:51

collar aspect to that. It's like, this

21:53

is my job. I'm going to

21:55

do my job. Yes, I'm going to do the

21:57

best version of my job that I can possibly

21:59

do. And

22:02

it doesn't matter if I like if I like

22:04

this band. I'm gonna do my job.

22:06

Do you share any similarities in that in

22:09

terms of approaching it as a job or do you approach

22:11

it in a completely different way to that?

22:14

Yeah, I think early

22:17

on you hear about like, I

22:19

guess it's a I'm

22:24

I'm of two minds, and

22:27

the minds do meet. But there

22:29

is a very pragmatic side

22:31

of me that is

22:34

just like, yeah, just put in the hours

22:37

and then there's but

22:40

the more I make music, the

22:44

more I'm like, this thing

22:46

is so mysterious and so mystical

22:50

and there's so many things I cannot explain about

22:52

it. And the quote unquote better I get at

22:54

it, I e. The more you know, more hours I put

22:56

in, the more proficient I get at this or

22:58

that or whatever. Like actually,

23:01

the more mystical it becomes to

23:03

me. But

23:07

that said, I think the idea of

23:09

like you know,

23:12

people waxing, I just haven't found the inspirations,

23:15

like just

23:18

that's that's some kiddo

23:21

nonsense, like just get

23:23

to fucking work.

23:28

At what point, then, in your career

23:32

or your life should we say, did

23:34

you realize that

23:37

you were now going to be a professional

23:40

musician that was going to be your job? Was

23:42

there a point when you thought,

23:45

I think this is it. I think this is me. I don't

23:47

think it's not going to go away any second.

23:49

Now.

23:49

I think I'm in.

23:50

I don't know that I ever

23:53

feel what you're describing

23:55

a sort of like job security, but

23:58

I do feel

24:01

like, you

24:03

know, I was a tiny kid.

24:06

I was ten years old, right, and I heard

24:09

Nevermind, and I heard bad Brains,

24:11

and I heard you

24:14

know, I heard

24:16

Jimmy Hendricks whatever I and

24:18

I just was like, this is it.

24:20

This is everything.

24:22

So I

24:26

had this simultaneous

24:28

like deep self loathing and self doubt

24:31

but also this unreasonable.

24:34

Belief that I

24:36

was going to make music

24:40

and for

24:44

my life. And again it's not

24:46

it's like it's such a duality

24:48

because it is this like grandiose

24:50

thing but it's also but matched

24:53

with like, you know, just

24:55

whipping yourself on a daily basis. You

24:57

know, it's a good you know this A But

25:00

I just had this un

25:03

wavering and absolutely delusional

25:06

belief that I was

25:08

gonna make it. I don't

25:10

know, and I didn't have an idea of make it. It

25:13

wasn't like I can't wait to be on

25:15

the cover of Rolling Stone. It wasn't

25:17

that. It was just like, I'm gonna make

25:19

music because I'm compelled to make music,

25:22

and I'm gonna make music.

25:24

Was the first big thing for you?

25:26

The polyphonic spree.

25:27

Yeah, I

25:30

had dropped out of college. I'd moved

25:32

to New York. I like,

25:35

it turns out New York is very expensive. I don't know if

25:37

you're aware of it, did

25:39

you know?

25:40

Yeah?

25:41

Yeah, So I like ran

25:43

out of money. I like sold

25:45

a guitar that I loved to like make

25:48

rent for the extra, and I

25:50

just I didn't. I was just like lost, It's like,

25:52

what am I doing here? So

25:55

I moved back in with my parents, back

25:57

into the childhood bedroom that I,

26:01

you know, made so many other things in and

26:05

not love. Never made love in that room.

26:07

But that

26:09

could have had something to do with my short,

26:12

curly mullet and

26:14

my glasses and my sweating problem. Who

26:17

knows who's to tell.

26:18

You know what? In London? Right in London right now,

26:20

that's quite that's that's the look. You'd

26:23

be doing well in London right now without.

26:25

Oh wow, god, yeah,

26:27

if Jen Alpha could have seen me, then I

26:29

would have been a hot fucking item.

26:32

But like, yeah,

26:34

so I moved back in with my parents. I was

26:36

just like what my

26:39

sister Amy was like, Oh, you should work at a coffee

26:41

shop. I was like, why

26:46

that feels insulting, not

26:48

insulting, because that's not but she said,

26:51

you should work at Starbucks. They have great benefits.

26:53

And I was like I that, or

26:56

you could believe in me, or

27:00

you could believe in my dreams. But

27:03

so yeah, anyway, about like three weeks,

27:05

three weeks after I moved home to Dallas,

27:08

my buddy Toby, who was still

27:10

one of my best friends, like it's like, hey,

27:12

Polyphonic Spree is always looking for new people,

27:14

Like we're going on this European tour.

27:16

I told them about you, like you

27:18

should come and try out. So I like learned

27:21

all the tunes, bought a bunch of

27:23

you know, whatever shitty

27:25

guitar pedals from Guitar Center

27:28

and like showed up with this like arsenal

27:30

of things, and it was like, you

27:33

know, I tried out. And after

27:35

that rehearsal, Tim Delatter

27:38

was the singer of the band, was like,

27:40

Annie, do you have a passport? Because

27:43

you're going to Europe? And the

27:45

next thing I knew, I was like on

27:48

a tour bus the same time, like

27:51

on these festivals with

27:53

like Sonic Youth playing after us,

27:55

and like this was the time of

27:58

life when like

28:01

it was like Kaiser Chiefs and the Hives

28:03

and the rap not the Rapture,

28:06

who was it was another the

28:08

band? But all of a sudden, I

28:10

was like on tour in

28:12

Europe, playing all these festivals and

28:14

just like truly like

28:18

LI live in it.

28:19

You know, I remember that

28:21

era very well because we're actually

28:23

pretty much almost exactly the same

28:26

age.

28:26

What's your birthday?

28:27

Mine's the seventh of August eighty two, yeah,

28:30

and you're like a month later, right,

28:32

you're September.

28:33

Eighty September twenty

28:35

eight, yeah.

28:36

Yeah, So and

28:39

I remember that time very well. I just I was,

28:41

I was at UNI, and then i'd left UNI

28:43

and I got a job at the Enemy magazine, and

28:45

that was peak. During

28:47

my time at university, I was working at Enemy

28:49

doing internships there, and

28:52

I remember it really well. I remember the Polyphonic

28:54

sp I remember the Polyphonic Spree as being

28:56

the band that within that world

28:59

of all of those bands who were

29:02

bringing the fun like, because a lot

29:04

of a lot of those bands were

29:07

I loved lots of them, but a lot of them were very

29:10

serious and it was all about being

29:12

the Strokes and it was looking the coolest.

29:14

And yeah,

29:17

oh my god, you're so right, And

29:20

then the Polyphonic Spree would turn up and there'd

29:22

be about twenty five of you in

29:25

your white ROMs.

29:27

Sucking acid fried Texans,

29:30

just being like look at the sun, like

29:33

yes, and it was so like

29:36

kind of specifically not cool

29:39

in a really excellent way. It was just

29:41

like culty and weird and seventiesy

29:44

and like, yeah, it.

29:46

Was great and it was it was like an antidote

29:48

to everything else, and you'd go

29:50

to reading festival and it would

29:52

be I did always think, though,

29:55

like the practical part of me maybe I

29:57

thought this after the fact. Actually, once I sort

29:59

of started work in music and realizing how

30:01

hard it is to work in music and bake the numbers

30:04

up is how you

30:07

how do you tour with

30:10

when you were in the band? I mean roughly

30:12

on the road. How many were in the

30:14

band at that point? How many would go out

30:16

on the bus?

30:18

I think twenty five people, yeah,

30:20

okay were in the band at that

30:22

point, and it was like, you

30:27

know, it was like grab a couch,

30:30

grab it was double decker bunks, so

30:32

I think we could fit like twenty

30:38

ish people, sixteen

30:40

at least. I think it was like two very

30:42

limited crews. So like, I

30:46

mean, you just but you don't care because

30:48

you're just like cool, Yeah, let me let

30:50

me take a shower, and the crew shower.

30:52

And like and see the world.

30:55

But like, oh yeah, see the world.

30:57

But how does it? I mean, how's it even working

30:59

on a I've been like with bands

31:02

before on the road where you know, there's

31:04

four of them and trying to get them all

31:06

to get back in the van when you've stopped for petrol

31:10

is hard enough. When there's twenty

31:12

five of you and you've all dispersed and you're

31:14

it's like there must have been

31:16

times when the band are like, oh, any

31:20

you're getting left in this town or whatever.

31:22

I can tell you that. So when

31:24

I was growing up in Dallas, there

31:27

was a place called CD World, and CD

31:29

World was the place where

31:31

I would go to buy records

31:34

CDs, you know, and you

31:36

could always tell how cool

31:38

your choice was bye

31:41

this by the guy who mostly worked

31:43

there, this guy named cris Pin. If

31:46

you like, you know, if you put

31:48

up a Zappa record, you'd kind of be okay,

31:50

if you put up you know, you'd like be

31:53

okay with the blonde Redhead record blah

31:55

blah blah. But you know you could

31:57

kind of tell like what if your choice

31:59

was cool or like by

32:02

chris Pin's reaction. Sure, So

32:04

it's alwayss this game of like trying, you

32:06

know, being fourteen fifteen, having my mom

32:08

drive me to the CD store, you

32:11

know, using my allowance to like buy

32:14

records, and then just like is this cool?

32:16

Is this cool? You like this? But so

32:18

Chris Penn ended

32:20

up, you know, being the tour manager

32:23

for the Polyphonic Spree.

32:26

So on those tours I remember

32:29

he and he was a tall guy, real

32:32

tall guy, big Texas guy, and

32:35

he could whistle like you know how

32:37

he whistled a call cattle.

32:39

Yeah, So I.

32:40

Remember being a heath throw and

32:42

it was like we'd hear the whistle

32:44

like circle up, you know, like circle

32:47

up, cowboys,

32:49

cowgirls, whatever, through

32:51

the whole through all of Heathrow Terminal

32:53

five, and you like circle up. I

32:56

mean, I don't know how they made it work. I mean I

32:58

wasn't in charge. I was just a little idiot,

33:00

you know, doing my thing.

33:02

But I was going to ask if you if you look back

33:04

at that time fondly, But it sounds quite clearly

33:07

you do look back at that time fondly.

33:10

So fondly, so funly.

33:13

Yeah,

33:17

let's talk a little bit about the new record. Daddy's

33:19

Home was a record

33:22

that was inspired very specifically

33:24

by the by music that had been

33:26

made in New York between seventy

33:28

one and seventy six. Does

33:30

the new record have any time

33:33

frame or era a tool connected

33:35

to it? Or is it a.

33:36

No, it's all free for the place. Okay,

33:39

Yeah, I mean it's it's grabbing

33:41

from second wave scot it's grab

33:44

it. I mean it's grabbing

33:46

from industrial

33:48

post industrial. There's no na.

33:51

It's just Daddy's Holm.

33:53

In some ways was a sort of easier

33:55

record to make because it

33:58

was like, Okay, can

34:00

I learn this language that I already

34:02

love and then speak it

34:04

and kind of see if I have if I

34:07

confined my own voice through speaking

34:09

this language that exists

34:12

allborn Screaming was a more difficult

34:14

record to make because I was like, I was

34:16

going like, well, what is language? Let's

34:19

make my own. And so that's just inherently

34:22

a different place to start from.

34:24

You know, there are certain like

34:26

nineties influences in there that I can

34:28

hear. Yeah, sure, what were you up

34:30

to in the nineties? Then what was your what

34:32

were you doing back then? Would you

34:34

would have been in Dallas?

34:35

I presume I was in Dallas. I

34:37

mean I was in like in the nineties.

34:39

I was in elementary school, junior high,

34:41

and high school. So I

34:44

mean I definitely.

34:45

Theater club, president of the theater club.

34:47

The president. Yes, I think we yeah, absolutely

34:50

covered that. I was

34:52

ten years old when Nirvana

34:55

Nevermind came out and

34:58

changed the whole thing. It

35:00

went from fucking CE and C music factory

35:03

and why was your attack you know

35:05

you're going to be a mutt to like smells

35:09

like teen spirit or you know it just it

35:11

culture changed it completely

35:14

and for a brief moment

35:16

there, like the

35:18

inmates were running the asylum in

35:21

the music industry and it

35:23

was there was like great

35:26

music being made in Britain. I

35:29

mean you go to like go

35:31

to like what the Bristol scene

35:34

of, like massive Attack and tricky

35:36

and portous head.

35:39

You know, b York was on her like London

35:42

club thing. There

35:45

was big music that

35:47

was also adventurous

35:51

and cool and

35:55

there was enough money in the music industry

35:57

to where like Sonic Youth

35:59

gets a get to a place in the

36:01

sun in mainstream culture.

36:03

I think like for us, that happened

36:06

with Britpop, which came a little bit later,

36:08

and that really was super

36:10

mainstream here and that was I guess

36:13

our equivalent to grunge going mainstream.

36:15

Yeah, but again you have Likerip,

36:17

you have like park Life, and

36:19

you have these great records

36:23

from weirdos

36:25

like Alastica, obviously

36:29

Blur, Pope Pope,

36:31

Yes, Polpe absolutely.

36:33

With never Mind being something

36:35

you can remember so clearly and

36:38

obviously having such an effect on you as

36:40

a as a person, as a fan and as a musician.

36:43

You've got Dave Groll on this record.

36:46

Was the first time that you met him at the Hall

36:49

of Fame in the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame induction for

36:51

Nirvana in twenty fourteen, or had you met

36:53

him before then?

36:54

I met him really briefly at

36:56

like an SNL after party, okay,

36:59

right before that. But then like my proper

37:02

you know hang I guess with him? Was

37:04

the rock and roll induction?

37:07

And was that the one where him

37:10

and Chris Novsek played

37:13

some Nirvana songs with They had a few different singers

37:15

sung a few different tracks.

37:16

Is that right?

37:17

Because I seem to remember Lord singing

37:19

a song with us.

37:20

Yeah, it was me and

37:22

Kim Gordon and

37:25

Lord and John Jeed helping

37:28

induct.

37:29

What track was it that you performed?

37:32

I did Lithium, Okay, it's.

37:34

A good one. Did you get to choose

37:36

it? Or did they say we want you to do Lithium?

37:39

I actually don't remember.

37:41

Okay, But in that

37:43

moment with all of the sort

37:45

of the fandom in

37:47

you and knowing what that album

37:50

means to you, how did you deal

37:52

with that? In that moment and meeting

37:55

those guys? Was it terrifying?

37:58

Was it as terrifying as it should

38:00

have been?

38:01

Well? Yeah, I was as terrifying as it

38:03

should have been. But also, you know, they're

38:08

great guys, I mean,

38:10

Chris and Dave and Pat

38:12

smear like they're great guys, they're

38:14

real ones. So I

38:16

think they certainly understood how

38:19

intimidating and wild it

38:22

was for anyone stepping

38:24

in for Kurt Jesus Christ,

38:26

you know so, and they just made

38:29

it as like lovely

38:31

and generous as possible,

38:33

you know so. But

38:37

I was still scared shitless

38:39

and kind of still am

38:42

still scared about it.

38:43

So in terms of getting Dave Grohl to

38:46

come over and play on the new

38:48

record, have you just kept

38:50

you just kept in touch with him since then?

38:52

Yeah, we're we're just buddies. Yeah,

38:55

we're just buddies. And and he's the

38:57

best, and he's everything you

38:59

want to be and more. He's just like a great

39:01

dude. And so yeah, I just hit him

39:04

up. I was like, hey, yeah, I have this song

39:06

that I'd love for you to play on, Like check

39:08

it out? What do you think? And then it was like

39:10

cool, this rips, I'll be how's

39:13

next week? Great? Okay? You know

39:15

it was. It was easy.

39:17

Breezy.

39:23

Midnight Chats is a joint production between

39:25

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39:27

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39:29

It's hosted by Stuart Stubbs and Greg Cochrane.

39:31

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39:34

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39:35

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