0:00

And when you know more and you know better, you do better, right,

0:03

which is why we're here today. So I'm really really excited. We

0:06

are going into year or two of our partnership and I'm here with my co

0:10

host today, doctor Elizabeth Chirou with March of Dimes. Thanks for having me,

0:15

Kenya, so excited to be here. Yeah, I'm so excited for

0:18

this partnership. But I've enjoyed the few podcasts we've done and how you've taken

0:23

this. Yeah, and we have one of our honorary guests, right,

0:26

you've been on the podcast a few times I have. Yeah, happy to

0:29

be here, excited to have you back. So good to be with you

0:33

and Liz today. So nice. Yeah, so we have a lot to

0:36

talk about, right, you all both have been working together. How long

0:39

have you been on the board of directors? Who have March of Dimes been

0:41

on the board of March of Dimes. I think now I started in twenty

0:46

nineteen, So what does that make it? Five years? Wow? Wow?

0:50

Goes fast. It does go go fast, but it's amazing. I

0:54

mean, I'm really excited to be on the board of March of Dimes and

0:58

support all the work that the organization is doing. And I'm happy that Liz

1:02

is in the position that she's in our CEO and trying to support the strategy

1:07

that she's coming up with. Yes, so let's talk a little bit about

1:10

some of those strategies going into twenty twenty four and what's on the plate for

1:14

you all. Well, we've really been looking at how we can help moms

1:19

and babies where they are. We know that we have some of the worst

1:22

outcomes of you know, industrial nations, of any nation really, and you

1:26

start looking at really inequities. When you look at health inequities, it's moms

1:30

and babies that are affected. And let's go there, Black moms and babies.

1:34

And so we've got to solve for this, and we have to solve

1:38

antony and I have had this conversation Solving for black women and black babies is

1:42

going to solve for everyone. And so we've really been looking at the strategy

1:47

of where we can talk about access, where we can talk about cardiovascular risk,

1:51

and where we can really talk about infant death at pre term birth,

1:55

and let's really narrow that across the spectrum of pregnancy. So we know that

2:00

an antipartum intrapartum and postpartum, and then wrap around that full year that we've

2:06

been right, that's where neonatal intensive carrying it and our infant death is measured

2:10

at a year, and we want to impact all of that and specifically moms

2:15

and babies. We know that that's where we're going to start to target across

2:20

those three things. Sure, and Tanya, how is your work and what

2:23

you're doing kind of folded into the mission for a March of Dimes. Well,

2:28

you know, I've just been advocating around infant and women's health now for

2:34

fifteen almost twenty years now, and so joining the board of March of Dimes,

2:39

and you know my work as a filmmaker, I've made films about infant

2:44

mortality. I've made films about the US maternal mortality crisis. For me,

2:49

it's really about raising awareness about the issues then talking about what the solutions are.

2:53

And so being a part of March of Dimes is a way for me

2:58

to continue that work, to see what the solutions are that the March of

3:02

Dimes is involved in, to help amplify the messaging and and just keep the

3:07

drum beat going. It's we're all in alignment I mean, it's it's it's

3:13

great because Listen and I were talking earlier about both of our paths to March

3:19

of Dimes. You know, we've had very different life lived experiences in lives.

3:23

She's a doctor, I'm a lawyer by trade, and yet we've both

3:28

come to this place to try to prove improve the outcomes for women, for

3:32

babies, and for families in this country. And so that's why, that's

3:36

why I'm there. That's great, amazing, She's amazing. I know, well you both are well. Listen, I say that I pinched myself.

3:43

I think about where I was five years ago you were talking about. I

3:45

was like I was delivering babies, right, I was serving moms and and

3:50

you know, handing the babies off right because I'm not a pediatrician. But

3:54

I think about where I've gotten to and sort of where right we've now crossed

3:59

paths, and I'm inspired. I mean, Aftershock is an incredible film.

4:03

You haven't seen it, go see it on Hulu. I'm gonna plug it,

4:06

thank but honestly it is so it is something that it does. It

4:13

takes your breath away to watch and see, and then it also hopefully galvanizes

4:16

you to this movement and that amplification, honestly is it's award winning. It's

4:23

an incredible and I can't praise Tanya enough for what she's helped us do within

4:28

the March of Dimes and really helped amplifying us as well. But her journey

4:31

is incredible, you know, I appreciate that and I and I think that

4:34

that the overall the point is that we all, all of us have a

4:39

role to play and improving the outcomes. It's about figuring out where you plug

4:43

in. And so for me, it's as a filmmaker, it's as an

4:46

advocate, it's at as a board member, it's as a friend, it's

4:50

as a mom, all of it, yeah, all the things. Yeah.

4:54

Yeah, So speaking of movement, you all are really mobile. Now

4:57

I want to talk about the March of Dimes Mom Baby Mobile Health Center that's

5:01

officially launched, right, Can you tell us a little bit more about what's

5:04

happening with that. Yeah. So it's a partnership with New York Presbyterian.

5:09

So you have to remember, even though I'm a provider, we at the

5:12

March of Diamond are not provider. We actually are convenor. So we partner

5:16

with New York Presbyterian and we're actually seeing patients starting in February. I like

5:21

to think of mobile units as pop up clinics, right, you think of

5:25

pop up and it's a really neat way to get back into the community.

5:30

Right. You don't have to come to the provider. We're coming to you and we're doing everything from providing inanatal visits, postpartum visits, mental health screening.

5:40

We're also handing out food. We're handing out I think it's been fifteen

5:43

thousand tons of food. Wow, just in the short term. Tons of

5:46

diapers, I think it's I could look up the number. But it's amazing

5:50

what we're doing boots on in the communities to do this work because we know

5:56

that it's not just about a doctor or midwife visit. It's really about being

6:00

in the community and being where moms are and helping them and what they need.

6:04

Yeah, and that full cycle of care right exactly. That comes down

6:09

to accessibility, which we've talked a lot of times about. It's so meaningful.

6:13

I mean, I think sometimes people forget it's hard for people to get

6:16

somewhere to leave a community. Sometimes they don't have transportation, Sometimes they have,

6:21

they have family members, they have to look after, they have reasons

6:25

why they can't leave their community. So for March of Dimes to have these

6:29

multi these mobile units that are in the community accessible to people, providing the

6:34

kind of preventative care that they need as well as actually providing groceries is truly

6:43

powerful and I think it can it's really impactful in the communities. Yeah,

6:46

we've been doing it in Ohio, so I should mention we've been in Appalachia,

6:50

We've been in the Inner City in Washingt d C. We're actually launching

6:55

in Houston and Arizona, so wow, right, we are. Strategy is

7:00

really not to own a fleet of mobile units, but really to be a

7:02

convenior that we can then hand that back over into the community so that it

7:08

continues to run for years at a time that we've been doing this, I

7:12

kind of can't believe that only two percent of all mobile units are in maternal

7:15

care. Wow right. We do mamigrams, we do blood draws, but

7:19

we're not doing what we fundamentally should be doing. And so we feel like

7:25

a pioneer in the space. You are and excited that we're able to do

7:29

it. And I think it's great too, especially when the March of Dimes does their annual Maternal Health Desert report. You know, we can't answer every

7:39

community that has a maternal health desert, but what you're seeing is the March

7:44

of Dimes trying to respond and answer to that, which is fantastic. Yeah,

7:48

and it's a great supplementation to what can be done in those maternal health

7:53

deserts. We might not necessarily be able to build a hospital or build a

7:56

health care center, right, but you can create access to this mobile health

8:00

unit, which I think is incredible. Yeah. A maternity care desert absolute

8:03

highlights the miles to drive. So if we're able to get that care right

8:07

and able to we know that moms and babies who don't get any kind of

8:13

care, they're the worst outcomes. So we know preterm birth for black women

8:16

in the maturity care desert much worse. So we all that data. It

8:22

drives where we need to be. We need more of them. Yeah,

8:24

but it's one of the solutions. Absolutely, it's great. So I kind

8:28

of want to go back to your role on the board, right. You

8:31

know, you've been working with the organization for five years. Has there any

8:35

been any like highlight or pivotal moment for you that really has been like,

8:39

Wow, this is very meaningful to me, and this is why I'm here.

8:45

You know that. That's a really great question. I mean, I think the way March of Jime sort of approaches the issue of maternal health care,

8:52

maternal and infant health care, really it is fascinating to me. I

8:58

mean, they we advocate on the hill. You know, we have a

9:03

wonderful avocan and Stacy Brayboy there who works to try to get policies in place,

9:09

because we can only do this work if we are supported by the policies

9:13

out there in our communities. Right, so we've got that. You know,

9:18

there are all sorts of different kinds of initiatives that we have. You

9:24

know, I don't want to get ahead of us on the aspirin low dose

9:28

and Liz will clarify exactly what I'm saying, but the protocol for low dose

9:33

aspirin when it comes to pre clamshaw these days, we've been taking low dose

9:37

aspirin to to prevent pre clamshaw that we're coming out with. I think that

9:43

for me though, honestly, what I really get out of Marshal Dimes are

9:48

the people on the board, the people in the organization who are really doing

9:52

the work on the ground day in, day out, are just amazing.

9:56

And I feel in inspired by the work that's happening and the commitment that is

10:03

there to really improve the outcomes. I think people know March of Dimes.

10:07

Some people know March of Dimes from FDR and solving polio. Some people know

10:11

March of Dimes as advocating for premi health. I came on the board really

10:20

when we were talking about health equity, really making sure that March of Dimes

10:24

has moved into the space to improve outcomes for all moms on all babies.

10:28

Understanding that we have a health equity problem in this country, and as Liz

10:33

said earlier, if we solve it for the most vulnerable, which are clearly

10:35

black women in black and brown women in this country, we will solve it

10:39

for everyone. And so that's what really got me excited was this new iteration

10:43

of March of Dimes really focusing in the health equity issue, which to me

10:50

is the thing that we all need to be focusing on right now in this

10:54

country because health is everything. Yeah, and if we can get that in

10:58

order it. It just power this forward. Definitely, I love it.

11:01

Yeah, No, our advocacy work is huge. I don't think people realize

11:05

how much. When I testified on the hill, it's like what I've got to do, where I'll go do this seat section in the hallway more comfortable

11:11

than sitting, But it is so important and I also think it is it's

11:16

frightening it first to do that work. We have an incredible woman who runs

11:22

our Office of Government Affairs, Stacy bray Boy, and really we have done

11:28

some incredible work when it comes to the Premiact, when it comes to supporting

11:31

moms in the workplace in that Fairness Act. We've also been really advocating for

11:37

reimbursement for midwives is the same as any other provider physician. Love that,

11:43

Yeah, And we're really doing a lot of dual work. And we've been

11:46

doing a big grant with CBS and Foundation and our dul work in our markets

11:52

and really looking at that from a reimbursement standpoint. So I love that you

11:56

brought up our advocacy because I don't think people think of that and they don't

11:58

know that that's where the change has to happen. Absolutely, and we are

12:03

bipartisan, which is crazy, Right, We're able to do this in a

12:05

bipartisan way, and there's not many organizations that are able to do that,

12:09

so health equity should be bipartisan. But absolutely so. I I you highlighted

12:18

that in such a great way, I think, And yeah, I think those that are stepping up this is a time for us really have to realize

12:26

that we have to find the solutions that close the health happening. We're trying

12:28

to use that lens with every program we do so and I love that it's

12:33

becoming a main stream conversation, right because it wasn't before, Right, I

12:39

don't. I don't even think three years ago it was as front and center

12:45

as it is now. Right. So, I think we've learned some things.

12:48

I think historically we sort of blamed people for their health issues, that

12:54

it's really their fault. They're not going to see the doctor, they're not

12:56

eating well, they're they're just living wild and causing all of their own health

13:03

issues. And I think we have woken up to realize that actually the system,

13:09

the systemic issue, is really the problem. We were just talking earlier

13:13

about how black and brown people show up at their doctor's offices and they complain

13:20

of symptoms and they are not seen or heard. And that's across the board,

13:24

from pregnant women to all people. So I think now we know that

13:31

the health equity issue is not an issue of Black people just being negligent when

13:35

it comes to their self care. It's that when they actually go to seek

13:39

care, they're not getting the treatment that they really need and deserve. And

13:43

so that's something we can fix right now that we know. And so I

13:48

think the conversation of health equity is growing, and I think what we realize

13:54

is that, as I said earlier and I'll keep saying it, if you solve the problem for the most vulneulnerable, you make it better for everybody else.

14:01

Right. Yeah, And we've got a lot of data that we're building

14:05

up behind it, which helps us kind of show us the markers and like

14:09

how we're pushing forward. Absolutely. Yeah. When to me, when I

14:13

amplify the data that black babies are two times more likely not to make their

14:18

first birthday compared to their white counterpart, I don't I get. I have

14:24

chills when I think about that. I think about all the children I've delivered,

14:28

right and right, right, and then as a society, how do

14:31

we how do we change that and how do we really get trust back into

14:37

the healthcare system. I think that's a really big thing. It's access and

14:43

how do we get the bias out and that that you know, listen,

14:48

that's peeling all the onions, onions on the table right, all those layers

14:50

there. But but yes, we use our data to really drive and amplify

14:56

and we are continuing to do that. We have another Maturing Care does a

15:00

report that'll come out this year, which again it's sort of you know what,

15:03

I don't expect it to be in the right direction. We're going to

15:05

actually look to within metro areas so specific. Really that's a teaser that I'm

15:09

really excited that we're going to be putting out there. Also, think our

15:13

visualization of our data. If you don't want to go through the five page

15:16

report for every state, if you just look at the map, you'll be

15:20

able to see it. Yeah, and be able to see that. And

15:22

i'd also say just to lean into our report card you know that we put

15:26

out in November. The thing that I find and I have this conversation all

15:30

the time looking at moms and babies in our health outcomes is a window into

15:33

our healthcare system. Yes, and it's broken. And you know we're not

15:39

talking about you know that we don't have you know, things like public health,

15:45

like we have sanitation, we have vaccines, we have these things in

15:48

this country. So when you really start thinking about some of the inequities and

15:52

other we have to look at our inside our own country. And again,

15:58

you know, I encourage everybody to go to the Market Times website to go

16:03

look at the pre term Birth Report Card as well as the Maturity Care Desert

16:08

because I do think visually you can see it immediately. Sure, they're really

16:12

rich documents and really really great use. People put great use to them.

16:17

I'm really proud of them and proud of the team that puts that together. Our Paranatal Data Center is fantastic. And you also have implicit bias training resources

16:25

that you put in place to help within the provider networks. Yeah, we

16:29

actually have training for trainers. So we have a train the trainer model.

16:32

We have partnered with healthcare systems, hospitals, private groups to do implicit buas

16:37

training. And it's not a one and done, which I repeat that over

16:41

and over again. I've done one and done, and it's not helpful,

16:45

right, You need to continue to have that follow up and the next iteration

16:48

of it because it's it's not something that you just fixed with one training.

16:53

So we need the small groups and the real conversations and the real buy in

16:57

to make the change. And we've got some quality improvement projects that we're working

17:03

in the same vein that I think are really exciting that we're coming down coming

17:06

out this year actually, and I think that's great that March of Dimes is doing that, and I think it's important. But I also say that when

17:12

it comes to healthcare providers especially, we need to start that training in med

17:17

schools and really that you know, I think med schools need to be really

17:21

thinking about how they're raising up doctors and the biases that show up in the

17:26

textbooks that they use and all of that. It's all hands on on deck

17:30

approach. But what marsh of doing, what March of Dimes is doing and

17:34

offering is very valuable. But we need to go a little bit back far.

17:38

No, You're absolutely right, and we do some with medical schools.

17:42

We have a few, not enough, you know, and I think it's

17:48

an interesting approach to really look at some of the testing that we do with

17:52

the bias that we have, and that's kind of the American collegere Ubujuan sort

17:56

of surface that a couple of years ago. And so I love that it's

18:00

really getting deep into those conversations. But it's it feels like it's a little

18:06

behind. It takes time, it does. But so that's why we continue

18:10

to talk about it, right, That's why I continue to amplify it and discuss it because it's it's why we continue our implicit bias training. It's good.

18:18

Yeah, it's crucial to how we move forward. Yeah, it is

18:22

so from both of your perspectives. I mean, we have training in place,

18:26

we have resources in place, we have policy that's in place. Like

18:29

I guess, what does the next phase of the work look like? Oh,

18:33

I guess I have to lean in there. So really excited that we

18:38

are really promoting a lot. When you we really look at access to care,

18:44

we're looking at and that access to care talks about maternal mental health as

18:48

well as just access. Right, So it's you know, if you think

18:52

about mental health, a lot of times it's about that access component. I

18:55

talk because I talk a lot about the cardiovascular because we know that something like

19:02

aspirin, which is supported by the American College of Obgun, which is supported

19:06

by our US Preventative Task Force Society of MFM A low dose, so that's

19:10

a baby aspirin, started it twelve weeks and continue to take daily can prevent

19:15

pre clampsia. There's toolkits to review to decide does this patient need it?

19:22

But we are encouraging that is for providers, but we are really encouraging patients

19:26

to come in to ask that question, should I be on an aspirin?

19:30

And we're excited because preclampsia we know affects black women more. We know that

19:37

it is one of the most preventable. It can happen before, during,

19:41

and after pregnancy and can have some of the worst outcomes. One in seven

19:45

pregnancy admissions is affected by a cardiovascar event. Wow, so most of that

19:52

is pre clampsia. So this is something that we when treated and when treated

19:56

early, and we know that that's something like six doesn't get treated appropriately can

20:02

lead to death. So when I start saying what are we doing? This

20:06

is when we're trying to talk about preventable maternal and infant outcomes return birth.

20:11

This is all aligned around getting the word out about aspirin. So we're excited

20:15

to elevate that and there's a lot of work being done in preclamc right now.

20:18

There are biomarkers to test for which are predictors for severe outcome. I

20:23

mean, I'm so excited about the stuff that's coming, but we want to

20:27

be on the forefront of getting the message out for getting women to ask that

20:30

question. Should they be very Yeah? And I would say from my perspective,

20:36

I think for me, it's about really turning this conversation around. I

20:40

appreciate the doctors who are really out there trying to make sure that those who

20:45

have the higher risk are getting the care they need. But eighty five percent

20:48

of birthing people are healthy and shouldn't have any issues, And so I think

20:55

we need to be thinking about what is birth and what is birth mean in

21:00

general. It is an amazing thing that women and wombs bring forth life into

21:07

this world. I said, I love to say, and this has heard

21:11

me say it that we women are divine goddesses who bring forth life and it's

21:17

a sacred act and for those of us who choose to birth, it should

21:22

be it's like a rite of passage in life, and we should be able

21:26

to experience it from the moment that we know that we are pregnant. We

21:30

should be on a sacred journey to bringing this child here in the most natural

21:37

way possible, experiencing the whole thing. We should not be afraid of birth.

21:42

It should not be a fear. It should be an exciting opportunity that

21:48

you have when we're able to have the kind of support around us that we

21:52

want and need. It gives us the protection to be able to shut everything

21:57

out, drop into that space of birthing so that you can touch, be

22:03

in touch with your body and do what it needs to do to bring forth

22:07

this life. So for me, I need to figure out how my messaging,

22:12

how we turn this conversation around so it's not about fear. Yes,

22:17

if you have an issue, then yes you need to go and do these things. But for the eighty five percent of us who really should not have

22:22

any complications, we should just be really excited and enjoy all of it and

22:30

not fear pain, and not fear death or near death, and just enjoy

22:37

the experience. Yeah, and be happy, right, Yeah, be happy.

22:41

I love the divine Goddess. I need to tell them both my children,

22:45

I'm a divine godess. You are you are divine God. Think about

22:48

you brought your children here, came through you had natural It was it was

22:53

hard, right, but it was a control that I feel so empowered that

22:59

I was able to do after delivering babies for thirty years. And it's sort

23:03

of interesting to be on the other side. Right. Yeah, there are some you know, who are terrified and there are others I can. I

23:10

remember I haven't delivered since twenty twenty, but handing over right onto the chest

23:15

onto a mom to say, thank you for trusting me right to help you.

23:19

But you did this, you did and you did all the work.

23:23

I just put I just put Catchersmith on right. And like in my film,

23:27

there we happen to catch a beautiful birth, and the woman who birth

23:32

in my film says, you know, as she's in the process, it's

23:36

like the hardest thing I've ever done. But the thing is when you get

23:38

through that, you know, you know you can do anything. I had

23:41

a midwife say to me when women in birth, you notice I don't use

23:45

the word delivery, I say birthing, because women birth they didn't livery They're

23:49

not delivering anything. Right, they're birthing. But what she said to me

23:52

was that when a women birth, she's not just birthing a baby, she's

23:56

birthing a mother. So there are a few things happening in that moment,

24:00

you know, and when you've gone through that and you know you can do

24:04

anything to help raise this child for the work of their lives. Yeah.

24:08

Yeah, it's powerful, right, Yeah, incredibly powerful when you think about

24:11

it, and everybody has a mother, everyone has, and it changes you

24:17

as a person for the rest of your life. You're never going to be that same woman you were before that moment ever again, right, Yeah,

24:23

And that's an amazing, beautiful thing. Yeah, you are goddess. You're

24:29

at that point you're a warrior. Yeah, you go, it's a warrior.

24:34

I actually think my family would call me that. They would, They

24:38

probably would. It's a lot. It's a huge undertaking. Like you think

24:44

about it, it's really true. Yeah, I like that very much,

24:47

And I wish I knew more about like my birthing story. I don't.

24:51

I don't know much. I mean, I know what time I was born, and my mother calls me the same time every year on my birthday,

24:56

which I love that, but I wish, you know, we had more

25:00

conversations about like what our stories were, right, Yeah, I think often

25:04

unfortunately there there's trauma. Uh. So many women have trauma in birthing,

25:11

black, white, green, everybody the way we birth here in this country.

25:15

So a lot of people don't want to talk about it. They don't

25:18

want to revisit that trauma. But I think you're right, we need to

25:22

share birth stories. I remember when I was telling I told my son about

25:26

a song that was playing just before he was born, and he was like,

25:30

why didn't you ever tell me that before? I was like, oh,

25:33

I don't know, it just never, it never came up, you know. Yeah, he was so excited to hear, like what was happening

25:37

in the room even before he got here. It's funny when my daughter saw

25:42

pregnant picture of me, you know, she was like, was I in

25:45

your belly at that point? Yes, that would be you in there,

25:49

And it was a whole conversation. I just never I don't have that many

25:52

pictures, but I have a few, and those that I do, it's

25:56

really a celebration of like, yeah, I was yeah, I don't have

25:59

many pictures. No, I didn't either. They're not the greatest, but

26:04

it is a conversation. It is a conversation beforehand, I think about it.

26:10

Yeah, No, I knew exactly where I was. I mean, my first child was born in Birmingham, Alabama, my second was in New

26:15

Jersey, and just sort of the the whole journey and and what happened.

26:19

I mean, I was working in the craziness of being an obsttrician while you

26:26

while you're pregnant and operating and all those kind of things, and so it's

26:30

a it was fun to go through. Yeah. The funniest and I'll tell

26:34

this quick story was that my son learning in and he'll kill me for telling

26:40

you this, but in elementary school learning about birth and you know, encouraged

26:45

to have that conversation before the film is shown the next day. And my

26:48

son said, are you in the film? And I was like, no,

26:53

I'm not. And he was like no, no, no, are

26:56

you the doctor either? One. Oh, that's so funny, that's so

27:03

good. I think about really quick. A picture that we have of our

27:08

wedding. So our wedding was like five hundred bucks. I'm not even kidding.

27:12

We had our reception in my mother's dining room and it was catered and

27:18

so my son is probably maybe six or seven at the time, and we

27:21

had our little cake in the corner and in my belly was Naya, right.

27:25

So it's our first kind of family picture, like and on our wedding

27:29

day. So I do actually have some pictures now that I think of it that are like, I'm like that you actually, yeah, good picture,

27:34

great picture. And it's funny because a few weeks ago I thought you were

27:37

a very cute pregnant not the first time around. I was. It was

27:41

okay. I tried to be cute the second time around, but I just

27:44

I'm not one of those women that I just got big all over me too,

27:51

me too. So my sister was cute. I didn't get the cute

27:53

gene when it came to the pregnant stuff. But but all good, you

27:57

got the cute gene period. Thank you, so do you O. Well,

28:03

this has been a great conversation. I appreciate you both being here and

28:07

just your authenticity and your commitment to this cause. Because the work continues,

28:12

it doeses and I can't thank Tanya enough for being a partner and being on

28:18

our board and being a voice at the table that we really need. It's

28:22

so powerful. Well, thank you well, thank you for serving as our

28:26

CEO, for serving the organization. It's really meaningful that you were there.

28:30

So thanks very much. Well, this is great. So more to come.

28:33

Yes, excited about twenty twenty four and all the things that are coming.

28:37

And this is great. So you are listening to me journal on iHeartRadio.

28:41

I am Kenya Gibson here with doctor Elizabeth Schuau from March of Times.

28:47

And can I call you you're a doctor too? No, you're not a

28:49

doctor. Not a doctor. Why do I want to call you a doctor?

28:52

You're going to give you doctor Tanya Luis okay, so Tanya Lewis Lee,

28:59

everyone, thank you, thank you so much for being here. And until next time. Thank you. Kenya. You're welcome. Why do I

29:04

think I don't know? Maybe it's coming. I know, you never know.