0:00

All right guys. Welcome, welcome, welcome

0:02

back to The Men to Mastery Podcast.

0:05

This is episode one 17. With

0:07

Mark Silverman. Mark Silverman is

0:09

an executive coach to CEOs

0:12

and senior leadership teams. He helps

0:14

them focus on making sure their organizations

0:16

get the right work done at the right

0:18

time, and, uh, my

0:20

opinion, perhaps even more importantly, he

0:23

helps executives. He helps those professionals,

0:26

uh, with personal and professional

0:28

overwhelm and helps

0:30

make sure they can thrive and find

0:32

fulfillment. Through their midlife and

0:34

mid-career. So before I

0:36

get into a few highlights of the episode

0:38

with Mark, I wanna offer two updates

0:41

or two things. So one

0:43

is around, uh, as you know, I've been

0:45

away from the podcast for a bit, working

0:47

on the, the podcast itself, working

0:50

on developing new business, new client,

0:53

a coaching offering, as well as,

0:55

Some better ways we can connect

0:57

as a community and uh, and

0:59

collaborate. So I'd like

1:01

to offer you some detail around all that, but

1:03

I will push it here to the end of the episode

1:06

in the interest and respect for your time.

1:08

So if you're interested in that, and I hope you

1:10

are, please stay tuned after

1:12

we cut away from the episode with Mark,

1:15

uh, or you can fast forward. This will probably

1:17

be around minute mark 52

1:20

to 54, somewhere in there. We'll get

1:22

into that update. All right. And the,

1:24

the second thing, and this relates directly

1:27

to this episode is it

1:29

was just recently Memorial Day. Uh,

1:31

we just recently had the June 6th D-day

1:33

holiday, and of course, July 4th, independence

1:36

Day is coming up. So Memorial

1:38

Day, my, my family and I, we, we did

1:40

Murph again. Right? If you're familiar

1:42

with that workout. So it's, it's a bit

1:44

of a moving memorial. It's our way of honoring,

1:47

uh, of suffering a bit. And, and

1:49

trying to connect to those who have

1:52

given so much, who have given

1:54

everything. In many cases, who have

1:56

suffered much, much more for our freedoms.

1:59

And moreover, beyond

2:01

that, um, that exercise, that

2:03

moving memorial, uh, we gave explicitly

2:06

to in particular charities

2:08

who are focused on the, the

2:10

issue, uh, the epidemic,

2:13

if you will, of veteran suicide,

2:15

uh, military veterans. Law enforcement,

2:18

other first responders. And, and here's

2:20

the thing, this, this issue

2:22

that we just don't talk about enough, and we are

2:24

certainly not dealing with effectively enough

2:27

as a country and a culture and a society,

2:29

I. Goes, goes beyond that, right? And,

2:32

and it also hits very, very hard in

2:34

the midlife male category

2:37

for for whatever reason. And I think

2:39

some of those reasons relate exactly to

2:41

what we're gonna talk about today with Mark.

2:44

So here's the segue, and here's some of the highlights

2:46

with Mark Silverman. Uh,

2:48

we, so Mark, before he

2:50

was an executive coach, was a very, very highly

2:52

successful. Salesperson in

2:55

the technology space. So we're gonna talk

2:57

about that career arc. We're gonna talk

2:59

about kind of the fuel behind

3:02

your, your career and why, what

3:04

worked in your twenties, thirties, maybe even

3:06

forties, may not be sustainable

3:09

into your fifties, sixties, sort of that

3:11

midlife career stage and beyond.

3:13

And we talk about why men have

3:15

this tendency in mid-career

3:18

midlife to just blow things

3:20

up, right? Kind of go nuclear with

3:22

change rather than make. Incremental

3:24

ratcheting style changes,

3:26

uh, again, that they may have in, in

3:28

a fashion earlier in their life and

3:31

in their career. So around

3:33

all of that, we're gonna talk about

3:35

stress and anxiety, how

3:37

it affects your, your job performance, how it

3:39

affects your life, and how to master

3:42

some of that overwhelm. Um,

3:45

Lastly, we'll talk about where coaching

3:47

fits in as a role to all this.

3:49

Uh, this really permeates the episode because it's

3:51

what Mark is so good at and specializes

3:53

in, but in particular how

3:56

coaching is often something that CEOs

3:59

in particular and other senior leaders in

4:01

executive roles are missing. And, and

4:04

here the two main areas that I

4:06

find that it is missing and we talk about

4:08

with Mark today. Is oftentimes,

4:11

uh, you, you reach a level of success

4:14

and seniority, uh, hierarchical

4:16

leadership, positional leadership,

4:18

where the impartiality

4:21

of opinion and advice starts

4:23

to be missing, right? You end up with the yes

4:25

men. And in that you're missing

4:27

somebody to really call you out on your

4:30

bullshit and somebody to

4:32

observe the things you can't see yourselves,

4:35

right? The classic shadows or blind

4:37

spots. And we have all

4:39

of us, too many of both of those things, right? The

4:41

areas where we're BSing ourselves. And

4:44

where you literally look in the mirror and see

4:46

things with your mind differently than

4:48

perhaps reality is, or, or that

4:50

others might observe. So we're

4:52

gonna get into all that today with, with Mark

4:54

Silverman. And, uh, we'll jump

4:57

right in here now. But again, uh, Come

4:59

back after we cut away from the episode with Mark.

5:02

Uh, I'll let you know where to find the show notes for

5:04

this episode, some freebies

5:06

where you can dive deeper with Mark Silverman.

5:09

And then of course, the, the updates I promised you

5:11

on what's going on here with the Men to Mastery

5:13

Community. All right. With that, let's

5:15

get into it with Executive Coach Mark

5:18

Silverman.

5:37

mark Silverman welcome. I'm, I'm

5:39

very excited for this conversation today. Mark

5:41

Silverman is an executive coach, an

5:44

author, also a podcast host. He

5:46

is a speaker and he works with CEOs around the world

5:48

helping turn their fast rising high achievers

5:51

into effective leaders. A topic I, I

5:53

really love and is near, near and dear to

5:55

my heart. I think we, we all know if we're, if we're somewhere

5:58

on this path, That success,

6:00

effective leadership, effective business

6:03

starts with leading ourselves and and

6:05

starting with the inner work first. So

6:08

we know that adversity is a gift.

6:10

It is really the, the path to success

6:12

and Mark is, is no no stranger to adversity.

6:15

At 27 years old, he was living out of his

6:17

car homeless down to 135 pounds.

6:20

And by what, five or six years later,

6:22

at the age of 33, he was a millionaire. So we've,

6:24

we've got the, we've got the hero journey,

6:26

we've always got the character arc.

6:28

Excuse me, on his tape sets. He'd always

6:30

say, I was living in a one room basement

6:32

apartment, and, you know, and I went and I studied

6:34

success and did all those things. And, you know,

6:36

whenever I'm on stage, I'm always asked to tell

6:38

that story of being homeless. And,

6:40

you know, how did, how did that, that all happen? And

6:43

I get really bored with it, but I forget

6:45

that it's actually. It, it, it

6:47

gives inspiration to people that no matter where

6:49

you are on the journey, it

6:52

can change, it can be something different.

6:54

And I, I had two of those journeys,

6:57

so yes, I was, I was a drunken, I was an alcoholic,

6:59

a drug addict, a sex addict, and you know, I was, I

7:01

was a, I was a mess at 27

7:04

years old. And it all finally kind of

7:06

came to a head where I had no

7:08

place to live. I had no food, I

7:10

had no money left. And I was living in my little, my

7:12

little red Toyota pickup truck. And

7:14

I came to Washington, DC to borrow some money from

7:17

my brother. I was living, I was on the west coast

7:19

at that time, so I drove across, I drove

7:21

across the country and he put me in AA

7:23

and Narcotics Anonymous, and

7:25

he said, you're gonna go to the gym. And by

7:27

the way, when I was 130, I was actually

7:29

130 pounds. I, I thought

7:32

I was. I always thought I was

7:34

fat my whole entire life. And I

7:36

see pictures now from the week that I drove

7:38

into DC and

7:40

I'm like, holy mackerel. Like

7:43

dysmorphia is a thing.

7:45

So what happened was, I, you know, I started, I enrolled,

7:47

he, he had me enroll in college. These

7:49

were, these were like the stipulations for me to. Crash

7:52

on his couch. Right? And I did those things and

7:54

it was really interesting to do things

7:57

sober, right? To, to find

7:59

out that I actually had an aptitude for

8:01

learning. You know, going back to school in your

8:04

thirties is a very different

8:06

thing cuz you're kind of choosing to be there. So

8:09

my, my journey there was different then

8:11

you know, I waited on tables and everything. I fi and I finally

8:13

got my first professional job as a sales

8:15

guy because I had no skills. I was

8:18

shy I was introverted. I don't like to bother

8:20

people. And I got a sales job

8:22

where I had a call 60 people a day,

8:24

otherwise I didn't get paid, right? So,

8:26

like for me that. Freaking

8:28

hell. But at somehow,

8:31

because I'm interested in other people and they say

8:33

I've learned since, you know, becoming a successful

8:35

sales guy, that introverts make really good sales

8:38

people because we're interested in other

8:40

people. How do we help you get where

8:42

you wanna go? My am my being an

8:44

empath actually was helpful. I

8:46

didn't look like the other sales guys who were, you

8:48

know, out partying, bringing people to strip joints and doing

8:50

all that stuff. But clients,

8:53

you know, customers trusted me. So I,

8:55

I went from that job to another job and I doubled

8:57

my income. Then I went to another job and doubled my income,

9:00

and then someone said, you know, you should come work for

9:02

this big company and really

9:04

learn how to do sales. So I was

9:06

like, okay. I had no plan. Right. You know, like

9:08

I was, I had never made more than 20 something

9:11

thousand dollars a year, you know? So now

9:14

I'm in the high tech industry in the late nineties,

9:16

early two thousands. You know, and I'm

9:18

going. The startup to

9:20

startup, and if you look at my resume,

9:23

my resume is the who's who of the fastest

9:25

growing companies in Silicon Valley history.

9:27

You and again, who I was, you never

9:29

would've thought that. Here's

9:31

the interesting thing. I got married, I had kids,

9:33

I got a convertible, I bought a million

9:35

dollar house. I did all those things, right? But

9:37

inside, I'm still

9:40

this homeless guy, right? And I

9:42

think you talk about shadow work you know, and,

9:44

and doing that internal beliefs work

9:47

on yourself. So even though on the outside,

9:49

I'm living in Alesia, right? I'm living in

9:51

in status symbol land, and I'm

9:53

the committee chair for the Boy Scouts and I'm the third

9:56

grade basketball coach, right? And I'm all things to all people.

9:58

inside. It's just not jiving. And so

10:00

stone cold sober in

10:02

2008. My marriage falls apart

10:05

and like, again, this, this is, this is the

10:08

hard for me thing for me to comprehend.

10:10

Like, I wasn't, I didn't drink so I wouldn't

10:12

screw things up. And stone cold

10:14

sober, my marriage falls apart. My ex-wife and I were fighting

10:17

and fighting and fighting, couldn't get along. My, I couldn't

10:19

sell anything. My my. Whatever

10:21

was wrong with me internally, I could not

10:23

sell a thing. And I'm working for one of the best

10:26

technology companies on the planet. And I,

10:28

I, I was having panic attacks every

10:30

day. Like meeting ex I would walk

10:32

in the hall and meet an executive that I normally would,

10:34

would work with, and I'd have to run in the bathroom

10:37

cause I couldn't breathe. Hmm. Or I'd be

10:39

in a do doing a presentation in a meeting

10:41

and I start to. I'm like,

10:43

what the, what is going on with me? My immune

10:45

system just started going crazy and I

10:47

started losing weight again, and I got really sick and they told

10:49

me I was gonna, I was probably gonna die.

10:52

I was misdiagnosed, thank God, but I, I thought I

10:54

was gonna die. So I made this decision

10:56

at 48 years old that

10:58

if I was gonna die, I needed to leave a million. For

11:01

my ex-wife and my kids, I just need to go make a million dollars

11:03

this year and somehow do that. So I, I

11:05

like, so here's, here's the singularity

11:07

of goals, right? My book is only tens,

11:10

right? Like, what, what, what is the most essential

11:12

thing that you can commit yourself to?

11:14

So I was committed. To leaving an extra

11:16

million dollars for my ex-wife and my kids. I

11:19

heard when I was in the parking lot of one of the

11:21

doctors this guy on the radio, Stu Middleman,

11:23

who was an ultra-marathoner, he says, everybody can

11:26

run. It is our birthright as humans,

11:28

as bipedal people that we can run.

11:31

So I called him and I said, I need to run the Marine Corps

11:33

marathon. I wanna show my kids what

11:35

I did with adversity. When I die,

11:37

I want them to see that they're dead. One of his last

11:39

things was he ran the Marine Corps marathon. He says,

11:41

yeah, it takes about two years cuz I couldn't

11:43

run a mile. He says, it takes about. I said, no, I need

11:45

to run it in eight months. I need to run it in October.

11:48

He goes, yeah, I'm not so sure. But anyway, he

11:50

said he took me on in You know, we did phone

11:52

calls and, and he had me training

11:55

and then I decided I wanted to give $60,000 to

11:57

charity cuz I just felt so bad about

11:59

myself for screwing up my life, my marriage,

12:01

my kids, everything. So I, I had

12:03

these three goals in that year.

12:06

I got a new job, like out of the blue, someone

12:08

called me and said, Hey, come work with this startup.

12:11

So I went to work there and

12:13

that. It took, it took about a year and a quarter

12:15

to make the million dollars. I made the million dollars, I

12:18

gave a $60,000 charity, and I ran

12:20

the Marine Corps marathon an hour faster than my

12:22

coach even thought I could do. So what happens?

12:24

I'm healthier than I've ever been. my

12:27

career's, taking off my kids and my ex-wife

12:29

for good. And I'm, I'm sitting

12:31

here with a, you know, with another run

12:34

in with the Phoenix kind of thing, you

12:36

know, in the Ashes and rising, and

12:38

I realized, Then

12:41

that. I cre

12:43

I can create my life. It

12:45

wasn't as articulate. Now, now I'm an executive

12:48

coach, so I have the fancy language to

12:50

talk about how we create our lives, how we make

12:52

choices, and incremental, you know, improvements

12:54

and all that. But while I was training for the marathon,

12:56

I listened to every self-help book ever

12:59

written. I listened to every spiritual

13:01

book, you know, every, everything I could

13:03

get my hands on while I was running because

13:05

I wanted to build a new. I

13:07

wanted to build a new person. I didn't wanna be

13:09

the person I was before, and I never

13:11

knew that you didn't have to

13:14

be who you were. I don't

13:16

have to be tomorrow, who I am today.

13:18

I can change, you know, my personality

13:21

is fluid. It's a made

13:23

up thing. Anyway, so that was the start

13:26

of my trajectory towards becoming

13:28

an executive coach and wanting to help other

13:30

people understand their free. So that's, that's my,

13:33

my, you know short Jewish Tony Robbins

13:35

story. Of how I came

13:37

to, you know, just dedicating my life to other

13:39

people, not having to crash and burn that way

13:41

to find out that they can reinvent themselves.

13:44

Yeah. Tony always talks about either inspiration

13:46

or desperation. So I suppose if you can

13:48

help people with the inspiration approach

13:51

to next level versus the crash and burn

13:53

approach, some of us learn the hard way.

13:55

It does seem like, I was just having this conversation recently

13:57

and we had a guest on who studied, you

14:00

know, sort of the type A personality, the,

14:02

the people that are really wired a certain. It's

14:05

all in, on everything. Right?

14:07

Maybe it's all in on the addictions. You mentioned

14:09

early on, or it's all in, could be all in on

14:11

health, could be all in on

14:12

religion. No, I'm, I'm going through, I'm going through

14:14

your podcast. I'm looking at all the topics that you covered. Yeah.

14:17

And I could see myself 15

14:19

years ago saying I'm with. Do that, and

14:21

I'm gonna do that and I'm gonna be that guy and

14:23

I'm gonna meditate, but I'm also gonna do a triathlon

14:25

and I'm gonna do that. And you know, that

14:27

same thing is right, like you can't sit with

14:29

yourself. So you go do, you know, create

14:32

this monster of a human and you think you're David

14:34

Goggins but meanwhile you still

14:36

can't sit in a room all by yourself and

14:38

be

14:38

right, right? Yeah. And,

14:41

and in some ways I think that it like chasing

14:43

the next shiny object. May be beneficial,

14:46

it may have, it may have assets, it may have benefits,

14:48

but at the same time, it's probably just distracting from what

14:50

we really need to do. And that might be something

14:52

that's pretty simple. Simple but not easy. Is

14:54

a, is a phrase I come across a lot, right. Just

14:57

sitting with yourself, quiet, starting

14:59

to maybe become aware of, of

15:01

thoughts and start to end that

15:03

this is, you know, part of the process I've gone through. You're,

15:05

you're talking about effectively. The

15:08

stories that we tell ourselves sort of what we've

15:10

programmed or been programmed with, and

15:13

the awareness to start to question those and,

15:15

and, and the freedom, the

15:17

power to modify them and recreate ourselves,

15:19

recreate our stories, making empowering stories.

15:22

We've all got, you know, you, you said you love to tell

15:24

the story and maybe it's, it's old to you, but

15:26

it's new to somebody else. We've all got our traumas

15:28

and dramas, right? It helps

15:31

us connect and be relatable to each other.

15:33

And we've, we've all gotta somehow deal with that

15:35

stuff to get better at who

15:37

we are now to become. And,

15:40

and be conscious about what we wanna become

15:42

next

15:43

if we can only get people to believe you, that we all

15:45

have our dramas and traumas, right? So you

15:47

meet people and you compare your outsides to their insides.

15:50

That old saying, right? But the truth is,

15:52

you, any, everybody I get to know

15:55

and have a deep conversation with. Has

15:58

some kind of a story like mine.

16:00

It's, you know, the characters are different, the circumstances

16:02

are different, but they've had to endure

16:05

or deal with something. There's very few people

16:07

who've had that idyllic upbringing in

16:09

childhood and, and that, that has its own problems

16:12

when you come into the real world.

16:14

yeah, a hundred percent. Right. We're we're talking about sort

16:16

of adversity you know, forging the, the diamonds

16:18

under pressure type of thing or whatever analogy

16:21

you want to use. And, and yeah, the other extreme is

16:23

like, if, if life's too easy if you went through our,

16:25

our podcast list, Michael Easter wrote The

16:27

Comfort Crisis, right? So there's, there's

16:29

this crisis at the other end of the spectrum. I,

16:31

I gotta think, you know, for someone like yourself who works

16:33

pretty primarily with top achievers,

16:36

top top sales guys, maybe

16:38

CEOs, a a lot of those folks

16:40

are wired the way that we are, the way that

16:43

we're talking about. Yes. So have these same

16:45

challenges have the same traumas

16:47

and dramas? Yeah. So Maybe, I

16:49

guess, let me ask this as a, as a starting

16:51

place because I, I know part of your

16:53

specialty is, is helping that

16:55

C-suite or helping those achievers become

16:58

also good leaders, not just

17:00

individual performers, but but excellent leaders.

17:03

What's sort of the, what's your path

17:05

in, where do you start with these guys? And, and here's the reason

17:07

I I, I, I'm fascinated by this,

17:10

is I run into a lot of CEOs

17:12

that sort of have this egoic, you

17:15

know, Hey, I, I, I made it. I'm successful.

17:17

I know what I'm doing. I don't need a coach. I don't need

17:20

help. I've already got a formula that works, obviously.

17:22

You know, look at me and look at my company. So

17:24

maybe sort of tone deaf to

17:27

the holistic health and holistic

17:29

balance and achievement we're talking about

17:32

for themselves, may not even believe

17:34

they need help or work on themselves. And

17:36

then, you know, casting that out to, to

17:38

their team. So how do you, how do you sort

17:40

of break through that? Or what's a typical first conversation

17:42

look like as a coach for a ceo?

17:45

It's funny, I was just talking to one of, one of my CEOs

17:47

who's been with me for four years and we

17:49

were, we were talking about doing an another, another

17:51

year together. And one of the problems,

17:54

and I said one of, you know, one of the problems with

17:56

us working together is you're too rich,

17:58

your girlfriend's too pretty, and you know,

18:00

like, you just don't need to do anything, right?

18:03

Like, like there's no urgency for any

18:05

of this stuff, so we have to find something for you

18:07

to be passionate about. But he said, I do remember.

18:10

So we, we talked about, you know, what does he have

18:12

now? Cuz I always do a review you

18:14

know, after six months or a year with someone and

18:16

find out. And he says, well, I have my integrity

18:18

back. He says, the reason I hired you

18:21

was in that first conversation you

18:23

told me that I had no integrity

18:26

and I was furious at you

18:28

because I am so honest and

18:30

I'm so careful with my word and my integrity

18:34

and, and you said, but you're cheating

18:36

on your wife. So you have

18:38

no integrity. Like there's

18:40

no integrity anywhere. If you're cheating on your wife,

18:42

you're not, you have no integrity. And he said,

18:45

that's why he hired me,

18:47

because he want, he want, he wanted

18:49

his integrity back more than anything. You

18:51

know, his marriage was over, like it wa it, but,

18:53

you know, so all of the justifications were there.

18:56

But you know, like his, he wasn't his word

18:59

and it took him a long time to become

19:01

an honest person. So now he's in this wonderful new

19:03

relationship where he's an honest man

19:05

in that relationship, speaks his mind, speaks

19:08

his truth. So usually my

19:10

way in my, my career's changed a little,

19:12

it used to be, CEOs who were kraken

19:14

at the seams. So my, my, my podcast

19:16

was mastering midlife. I was the

19:18

midlife crisis guy, right? But then I turned 60

19:21

and I decided I'm a little too old for midlife, and I'll leave

19:23

it to you guys. to now I'm the, now I'm

19:25

the geriatric mastery guy, but

19:27

my, my you know, so it's usually the

19:29

cracks were showing for them. And someone would

19:31

call me and say, he really needs to talk to Mark.

19:34

So, because it only, you have to

19:36

have the cracks, otherwise you

19:38

won't. Right. Something has

19:40

to stop working.

19:41

So, j just a quick question on, on that mark. So

19:43

when you say the, the guys busting the seams or

19:46

the cracks, was that, was that more. Maybe

19:48

they're successful in business, but the rest of their life

19:51

was, was falling apart or was that more about,

19:53

Hey, I've, I've reached this level of what I call success,

19:55

but I'm unhappy, I'm miserable. I, I Fulfillment,

19:58

purpose. Yeah. I'm bored or

20:00

I'm, I'm, I'm starting to see my temper

20:02

show up and, you know, because they're bored, their

20:04

temper shows up or, It's a, it's,

20:07

it's, it could be any myriad thing. The, the premise

20:09

of mastering midlife was, you know, the, the

20:11

drives and motivations that get you through your twenties and thirties

20:13

start to turn on you in your forties and fifties, right?

20:16

So how many of us have become successful?

20:18

Like, I became successful because I never wanted

20:20

anybody to see that homeless guy again. Right.

20:23

So I covered it up with ego boss suits and a

20:25

gold watch and a and a and a sports

20:27

car, right? But that guy was still there. So

20:29

what happens in your forties and fifties if you don't listen

20:32

to that internal clock and

20:34

you know, saying something needs to change, something

20:36

needs to shift. You start to drift away in your relationships,

20:38

you start to drift away from, from who

20:41

you are. And the midlife crisis,

20:43

the job crisis, the health crisis,

20:45

the relationship crisis just blows

20:47

up in your face. You know, women tend

20:49

to go into like adrenal fatigue and go down.

20:52

Men tend to blow shit up, right?

20:54

Like, like I can't, I don't like this. I

20:56

don't know how to incrementally change anything.

20:58

Cause I can't have a deep con,

21:00

I'm an honest conversation with my wife.

21:03

So we blow shit up and then figure

21:05

out what we, what to do with the pieces, right? So

21:07

my career has really shifted now because these

21:09

CEOs have been calling me and saying,

21:11

I got so-and-so, and I, and I, I hate

21:14

to use always be on the, on the masculine

21:16

on this, but most of my clients are, man, you know, I got

21:18

so-and-so rockstar, no

21:20

manner. you're bull in a China closet. Can

21:22

you teach him some manners? Right. Or I got

21:24

another rockstar who won't. Like,

21:27

he's now in the C-suite, he's part of my,

21:29

my senior leadership team, right? But

21:31

he won't get his hands off the reins

21:33

of the day-to-day, right? Mm-hmm. he won't set vision,

21:35

right? Right. So I, I get, I get, I get called

21:38

when there's someone, someone who's been young.

21:41

Talented and rising really fast

21:43

gets, puts on the leadership team and

21:45

needs to be matured and means needs to learn

21:47

those skills. I just had dinner

21:49

with two clients who I've had for.

21:52

Four years. I guess they're four years now. When

21:54

I first met them I wasn't as successful

21:56

as I am now, so I needed, I needed every

21:58

check I got, right? I was still taking care of

22:00

an ex-wife, two kids, elderly parents, all this stuff,

22:02

and I left my lucrative career to be

22:05

a air quotes coach. So

22:07

I, I'm really, you know, cognizant that

22:09

I need the check. So I fly, I I do

22:11

international. So I fly to their country. This was way

22:13

before Covid and I'm meeting with them and

22:15

this is a done deal. The c e o has already decided,

22:17

this is just a chemistry meeting. They're gonna give

22:19

me my fat check. So they come in to talk

22:21

to me and I,

22:24

I, I can't believe you know this, this comes

22:26

outta my mouth cuz the cha again, don't,

22:28

I'm a sales guy, don't ever talk yourself outta the sale.

22:31

And I said, I said to each one of 'em, I said, look,

22:33

I said, I'm glad you, I'm glad you, you know, you said yes,

22:35

you wanna work with me now I have a couple things

22:37

to ask you. I said, you're

22:39

gonna be successful with, or. And

22:42

by the way, I wear a solid gold, $35,000

22:44

watch. I don't care about your success.

22:47

What I care about are, are you gonna

22:49

be the kind of fathers your sons need?

22:51

Are you gonna be the kind of husbands your wives need?

22:54

And are you gonna be the kind of men who can deal with this

22:56

kind of wealth in the world? If

22:58

you're up to working on those things, then

23:00

I will take you on as a client. And inside I'm going,

23:03

what are you saying Silverman? Like, like you

23:05

need that. And they both, their eyes

23:08

both got really big and they were like,

23:10

we're totally in. We to, we,

23:12

we want this. And I just had dinner

23:14

with them and their wives, and I had never met their wives. And

23:16

their wives started telling me at dinner and I may, I

23:18

may cry here. And wife have, you know, we are

23:20

so thankful that they met you. You

23:23

know what you've done for the pressure that they're under,

23:25

what you've done for them as men, what you've done

23:27

for them as husbands, what you've done for our

23:29

relationship and your coaching is

23:31

amazing, and I'm bawling my eyes out in

23:33

this restaurant. That's why

23:35

I do what I do. Mm-hmm. right? So I get hired

23:38

for the success of the leadership for the,

23:40

for that, because again, you can't

23:42

be happy in a leadership position if you don't actually

23:44

know how to do leadership, right? There's

23:47

very few born leaders. It's a, it's a learned

23:49

skill. You know, that's

23:51

the good news. You can learn it. Right. But

23:53

you know, if you can't, if you can't find, and I,

23:55

I noticed, you know, on your, on your, your Mastery

23:58

program, you know, you have these pillars. Are

24:00

you looking at every area of your life

24:02

and making sure that you're holistically

24:04

successful? So that's, that's

24:07

what I'm, I'm working with. Okay.

24:09

Yeah, that makes sense. I'm, I'm curious.

24:13

So I, I think part of what, the way I digest

24:15

what you just shared is, is we have

24:17

these sort of outer metrics, or we can point to

24:19

the, the business successes, but the, the really

24:22

important stuff is what you got the feedback on at dinner,

24:24

right? That's, that's the richness in life. When

24:26

you've got. let's say a ceo,

24:28

and then you've got some, some younger

24:30

up and coming achievers, and you're working with

24:32

each of these individuals and a team, and you're trying to

24:35

grow these folks into, into

24:37

better leaders or leaders, period.

24:39

Some of what I, I I, if I took

24:41

this the right way, those

24:43

conversations you've had initially with,

24:45

Hey, are we gonna work together for

24:48

the first time? Or maybe the first time in a long

24:50

time? You're providing some ugly,

24:52

but very honest. Almost,

24:56

almost

24:56

always, right? Almost always. You're,

24:58

you're holding that mirror up. And then if

25:00

we extend that to a leadership

25:02

team, having some similar

25:05

level of, of of honesty with each

25:07

other, of, of, of the feedback

25:09

that we really need do you run into cultural

25:12

barriers to that meaning? My,

25:14

you know, kind of my journey through the corporate world

25:16

and, and the, you know, at large

25:19

world here, right? We've, we've sort of gotten soft.

25:22

We've gotten soft in wanting to be nice to each

25:24

other or what we think is nice to each other, but

25:26

we're really doing each other a disservice by, by

25:28

just sort of frosting over all that stuff. And

25:31

I see some of that show up in, in the working world,

25:33

right? Where, where accountability

25:35

isn't really a thing. Ownership isn't really a

25:37

thing. Constructive feedback isn't

25:39

as much of a thing. Do you see that? Do you

25:41

run into it? How do you overcome that with a leadership

25:44

team and get them working more in, in that?

25:47

It's kind of the reason why I have a job and

25:49

a waiting list to work with me because most

25:51

people don't want to have those like it. That's the

25:53

hardest thing for people to do ev Most

25:55

people wanna get along. You

25:57

know, there are the bull in the China closet who

25:59

will just say what they think and all that stuff and kind

26:01

of ruin things. But most people wanna

26:04

be liked. most people wanna be seen as a team

26:06

player. And by that they mean don't criticize,

26:08

don't, don't. Mm-hmm. push back. So, you

26:10

know, and, and for me, what I find

26:12

with leaders is the, the

26:14

number one trouble they

26:16

have is having that feedback,

26:19

accountability loop going. So

26:22

you brought me, so a piece of work, right? Because this, this

26:24

is, this, this is the, the, the classic. I

26:26

just did it myself. I worked till two o'clock in the morning cuz it

26:28

was easier for me to do it than teach them

26:30

to do it. Most people don't want. okay,

26:33

you brought me this piece of work, or you

26:35

did something this way. What

26:38

I loved about this was great. You know, this

26:40

was great. What would be better is or the gap

26:42

to what the piece of work I need is this.

26:45

Do you agree with me? You know, can we come to

26:47

agreement that this is the level of work we need back? Send

26:49

them away. Have them come back and then say, great,

26:52

you're closer, right? Still,

26:54

here's the gap. Like, and have that feedback

26:56

accountability loop going all the time. It's

26:59

so hard. It takes so much work.

27:01

It takes so much psychic energy to do

27:03

it. But what happens is you're

27:05

starting to create other leaders in your organization,

27:08

right? A month or two months down the line,

27:10

that person's gonna be so much more autonomous.

27:12

They're gonna think for themselves, they're gonna understand

27:14

what the assignment is. So now you're gonna be able

27:16

to turn your back. Once you assign that plate,

27:18

you're gonna be able to turn your back and know that that's good, but

27:21

it's, if that's the hardest thing, I think for almost

27:23

everybody. What's,

27:26

Yeah, that makes sense. Just I'm kind of playing

27:28

that forward. So thinking about,

27:31

you know, maybe one of these CEOs or business owners that

27:33

you've worked with for a number of years,

27:36

so, you know, if, if one leader is building

27:39

additional leaders and they're building the next generation

27:41

of leaders, have you gone through sort

27:43

of a full cycle with, with one of your guys

27:45

to where they've exit. Right and stepped

27:47

away.

27:48

I, I'm getting, I'm that none,

27:50

none have exited yet. But they're, but they're,

27:52

they're dealing with. So what do I actually

27:54

do with the organization now? Like, what's my

27:56

job? Just had that conversation this morning. It's

27:58

like, so I've got this person handling

28:01

this, this is going well. This is going, what's

28:03

my job? And so

28:05

now that now we get to, just, now we get to

28:07

actually build something new for them, right?

28:09

He's got a foundation, he's got, you know, that he works

28:12

with and all that. He sets visions and strategy

28:14

and, you know, he wants to take the co company

28:16

to a certain level. The people he is got in place,

28:19

he built the. Right. This is what I

28:21

noticed with most CEOs. One of the, one of the best

28:23

things I do for the leadership team is

28:26

I put them in their place and I'm like, you're not the c

28:28

e o. Right? They'll, they'll complain,

28:30

they think they can run the company better, all this stuff. You

28:32

are not the c e o, you're not paid to be the CEO

28:34

e o, right? So let's, let's, let's, you

28:36

know right size our commitment right now. You

28:39

don't know what the senior level challenge

28:41

is that person has to deal with. The c

28:43

e O is usually the person who will take

28:45

the rocket ship from zero to. right?

28:49

The leadership, the people on the leadership team, there's very

28:51

few people on the leadership team who will be

28:53

the person who takes it from zero to 60, let

28:55

alone from 60 to a hundred. Right?

28:58

So, so un

29:00

understanding that is really, really

29:02

important. Now, you can get people,

29:05

and hopefully if you're a healthy c e o,

29:07

you get people to take care of all those other

29:09

things, but you are still the,

29:12

the, you know, the, the, the spice

29:14

and the sauce that is driving the company

29:16

to where it's gonna. I talked to one c

29:18

e I coached his leadership team. I didn't coach

29:21

him, but he, you know, when, when I was doing some

29:23

rounds with, with his people, he comes

29:25

in the conference room and sits down with me and he goes, Silverman,

29:29

when is it time to leave? When is it time

29:31

to just give up? I said, dude,

29:34

I am not your coach. You have

29:36

the best coach on the planet. It happened to be a friend of mine. I

29:38

said, no, I'm not your coach, so I can't tell you that

29:41

but you know, he says, you know what, what,

29:43

what my problem is when I turn my. Everything

29:47

slows. and

29:49

I said, yeah, part of that is

29:51

your perception, you know, because

29:53

you know you're such a driver. Part of that is your perception

29:56

and part of it's true. And I said, you

29:58

know, these two guys on your leadership team could

30:00

be c e o. They're definitely

30:02

mature enough. They're ready to be C E o. I

30:05

said, the problem for you would be is

30:07

they're not gonna run the company that you would. Hmm.

30:10

You are the rocket fuel in this company. They'll

30:13

run a successful company, they'll won, run a wonderful

30:15

company, but it'll be different than what you are

30:17

doing. Right. So that's the hard thing for

30:19

those CEOs who wanna leave, like,

30:22

can I give my baby to somebody else and watch

30:24

them, turn it into something different. Right.

30:27

You know, I put it, I, I put it in a Red

30:29

Sox uniform and they wanna put it in a Yankees uniform.

30:32

Not sure I'm good with that. You know, that

30:34

kind of thing. How often do you

30:36

get fired? I

30:39

got violently attacked

30:42

once. How often do I get fired? I

30:45

have a hundred percent. Re retention rate. Renewal

30:47

rate. So I got that's pretty good. I

30:50

fire people all the time. Like, I'll,

30:52

I'll tell people, you know what, you and I have been together for

30:54

two years. I've done as much as I can for you.

30:57

I need you to go join a mastermind with

30:59

people who are 10 times more successful than you.

31:01

I want you to steep yourself at. So I fire,

31:05

I, I, I haven't been, I fire everybody.

31:07

I have 'em outta the nest. Yeah. I, I

31:09

I've completed with people. Okay. Where

31:11

it's just, you know, we've run the. And

31:14

it's been good. But yeah, no, I

31:16

haven't been fired yet except for that one person who,

31:18

who attacked me. No,

31:20

I was just interested. If somebody had had sort of

31:23

run you out the door, wasn't ready,

31:25

you know, said yes, wasn't ready,

31:28

ran you out the door and then brought you back.

31:31

A couple people, a couple people have ended.

31:33

And then come back, yes. That, that's happened. But

31:35

no. Yeah. And I haven't, I haven't gotten fired yet. Maybe I'm not,

31:37

maybe I'm not confrontational enough.

31:39

Yeah. Maybe you gotta push the, push the envelope a little

31:41

bit more.

31:41

Goals, man. We got goals.

31:43

Goals. What else did I wanna ask about that? What's, I

31:45

mean, what's your, what's your process like, or your

31:47

tools, or how do you, how do you develop these

31:49

leaders?

31:50

I didn't know what it was until recently. You

31:52

know, if you asked me that six months or a year

31:54

ago, I would've said, you know, I don't know. It's

31:56

just, it's just kind of ma it's kind

31:58

of Mark's magic like, I don't know. And

32:01

a friend of mine and I sat in my my office and

32:03

we actually codified what it is I do.

32:06

And that's how I created The Rising Leader

32:08

Handbook and the Rising Leader workshop that I'm, I'm

32:10

building now is I take,

32:12

I take time. So it's,

32:14

it's separated into leading. So,

32:17

you know, leading your c e o or leading your

32:19

senior leader, how do you do that? Then

32:22

it's leading across, how do you,

32:24

how are you a leader? You know, I'm sure you've done

32:26

all these leadership trainings where you're a

32:28

team of alpha men and

32:30

you gotta pick a leader and then, but you gotta

32:32

be a follower, but you're also gotta lead. And you know,

32:35

like, Those kinds of things. Like how do you

32:37

lead in a group of people who also

32:39

want to lead, want to be seen, want their agenda,

32:42

but also collaborate while you're competing

32:44

for attention? All that stuff. So that leading

32:46

in the peer group, and that's the culture thing that you

32:48

were talking about. Yeah. Is how do you create that?

32:51

So the, once you get those two things right now,

32:53

how do you lead your team? And, and how do

32:55

you do that? And then the, the most important

32:57

thing is how do you lead yourself? Hmm.

33:00

So usually the, usually I do it I

33:02

do it in two ways. First, I'm usually

33:04

brought in again for you know, teach

33:07

the person some manners. So I, I

33:09

kind of get them in line like, you're not the c e o,

33:11

right? You like your job, right?

33:13

Because if you don't like your job, Okay. You like

33:16

your job? Now we're gonna, now we're gonna smile and we're gonna

33:18

do what we signed up to do. Cuz you make

33:20

a lot of freaking money. And then, and then we

33:22

work on the internal, so the first six months is always

33:25

internal leadership. Hmm. You're a

33:27

choice. You are not a victim of circumstance.

33:30

Right. You, you know, you get to speak your mind.

33:32

How do you s how do you speak your mind? How

33:34

do you ask for what you want? How do you take

33:36

care of yourself? One of my, one of my guys

33:38

was a, a former professional. and

33:41

now he's an executive in a company. He's six foot four,

33:44

you know, kind of eats, eats, you know, eats furniture

33:47

for dinner. Big, big guy always

33:49

laughs how I'm not intimidating cuz I'm five

33:51

foot seven Except he says he listens to me. That's why,

33:53

why he signed up again. But anyway, so,

33:56

so he's, I was hired cuz he has anger issues.

33:58

Hmm. Like he's scaring everybody on the team.

34:00

He's six four, right. Athlete, he's

34:02

in his forties. And I said, okay,

34:05

here's the problem I. I'm

34:07

not gonna coach you again until,

34:10

you know, oh, I asked him, you know, when was the last time you were in the gym and

34:12

his wife's a marathoner, and when he

34:14

says, I haven't been in the gym probably two years,

34:16

three years. Hmm. I said, great.

34:19

You're overweight, you're breathing

34:21

heavy. You know I am not gonna coach

34:24

you again until you've been to the gym. Eight.

34:27

And I want you to take a picture of yourself in the gym. Not

34:30

because I need the accountability, but because I wanna make

34:32

this fun and I want you to take, I wanna, you know, like,

34:34

take a picture of yourself in the gym eight

34:36

times and we will coach again. He goes, you

34:38

know, so he comes after eight times, he comes back. He says, why

34:41

did you do that? He said, because I can't play

34:43

whack-a-mole with your emotions like you're a f. Five

34:45

year old A D H D kid who

34:47

needs to be on the playground before he can sit

34:49

at the desk. Right? So,

34:52

you know, why would I, why would I try and do that

34:54

when you have all this pent up energy? So it's four

34:56

months later, it's time for renewal. He

34:58

looks amazing. He dropped all this

35:01

weight, you know, like just looks great. I'm

35:03

on with his c e o and his c e o who says you're

35:05

gonna do another six months with him, right? And he goes, by the

35:07

way, he looks awesome.

35:09

What'd you do to. Right.

35:12

So that, that's, that's the kind of thing that,

35:14

you know, sometimes coaching is just that.

35:17

It's like, you know, if you're an athlete

35:19

and you don't and you don't play sports,

35:22

you're in trouble. Yeah.

35:24

Great. Yeah, there's a, there's a lot to that. What about,

35:26

and, and this may be an aspect of what you just just

35:28

mentioned as well, right? I

35:32

was curious about sort of the, the, the dark side

35:34

or the shadow side or the downside of,

35:36

of quote unquote success. Do the

35:38

air quotes thing again, meaning, you

35:40

know, maybe that c e o who is in

35:42

that place of, well, I could step away

35:44

or what's next? Going

35:46

back to adversity. Right. And we sort of thrive

35:49

as, as human animals in, in challenge.

35:52

How does that look? How do you start to create the next

35:54

challenge or, or adversity or

35:56

what the next thing is that someone

35:59

is gonna work on rather than self-destructing?

36:01

Again, the scariest thing

36:03

on the planet is not public speaking.

36:06

It's the blank page. It's the blank

36:08

canvas. It's that pause, you

36:10

know, getting someone to sit down and just slow

36:13

down. Enough company's working great.

36:15

Everything's doing good. Can you take time?

36:18

And go for walks. Can you journal?

36:21

What are you interested in? You

36:23

know, so you know, what are you pissed off at about the world?

36:26

You know, what pisses you off in the world, right?

36:28

I can't stand the fact that dolphins are being slaughtered.

36:30

Great. Do

36:33

you care enough to do something about that? No.

36:36

Great. Let's look at something else. Like, you know,

36:38

do you wanna start another, some people don't wanna do that, they just wanna

36:40

start another business. Some people wanna travel,

36:42

some people wanna do all kinds of stuff. And then that

36:45

incremental thing is, is the hard thing,

36:47

right? Because we're men, right? We're either

36:49

all in or I quit. right,

36:52

right. I love her and I'm devoted, or I have to get divorced.

36:55

You know? So for me, like can you have a conversation

36:58

before you walk out the door? Can you have a conversation

37:00

with her about some of the things that you

37:02

don't like in your relationship? And maybe you can

37:05

work those things out that's so much

37:07

harder than being a doormat or walking out

37:09

the door, right? Same thing with the company. Okay?

37:11

The companies can you work two

37:13

days a week and

37:16

actually, Find some hobbies

37:19

or you know, anything. And that's the

37:21

hardest thing is, is like, no, I'm needed.

37:23

We've just established you're not needed at all. So

37:27

can you spend two days? Can you spend two days a

37:29

week? And that's, it's really hard cuz there's

37:31

so much, there's so much identity

37:34

with, with it and ego and and

37:36

fear. You know, if we

37:38

can teach leadership skills again all day

37:40

long, but if we don't work on these underlying things,

37:43

I was just speaking in front of a group of CEOs

37:45

yesterday and I, and I was talking

37:47

about childhood traumas and when I walked in to

37:49

speak, someone else was talking about us. So it was a great

37:51

segue about childhood traumas. I said,

37:53

so you guys all think that you are

37:55

in relationship with each. So

37:58

when someone's yelling at you or something's happened and you

38:00

think that that's what's going on, they're yelling

38:02

at something from childhood. You're not even

38:04

in the room. Right? Right. Those things, those

38:06

shadows are with us in every relationship.

38:08

Everything that we do, everything that we go, we're not in a relationship

38:11

with the world. We're in a relationship with what we

38:13

think about the world, the people we are in and all that

38:15

stuff. So, If, if

38:17

you're, if you're teaching leadership, we,

38:19

if you don't get people to drop down and learn

38:21

who they are, what their fears are, what

38:24

the, you know, what drives them, it's,

38:27

it's again, just playing whack-a-mole with behaviors.

38:30

Yeah, it really is. Fear's, fear's a great one. I

38:32

know it, it certainly is. It's a hardwired

38:34

survival mechanism, right? It's, it's the reason that we're here

38:37

and it, and it can be, and it certainly is a fuel

38:40

for, for most of us you know, those things

38:42

from our childhood. I'm never gonna live in the, in

38:44

the car again, or my house got repossessed

38:46

or whatever it was, right? It, it drives us

38:48

to, to this success or what

38:50

we define as success and sometimes to the point

38:53

of. Overachieving.

38:55

Right. But then how many, yeah,

38:57

how many overachievers do you know, like real

38:59

successful overachievers that

39:01

you don't see the underlying pain that

39:04

that drove them to that level of

39:06

success?

39:07

A hundred percent. It's there probably

39:10

easier for somebody to see it from the outside than

39:12

for them to see it themselves a lot of times. Right. Totally

39:15

Right. And then maybe that, that pivot

39:17

from what's driven us using that fear,

39:19

what's driven us in some good and in some

39:21

unhealthy ways, and pivoting to

39:24

more courage based decisions. That's,

39:27

that's scary

39:27

in itself. Sure. Here's the little, here's

39:29

the little secret though. All those things that you

39:31

learned are not bad. Right.

39:34

The thing that almost destroyed me was I'm, I'm

39:36

an empath. You know, I ha I have a d

39:38

h d I ha, you know, all these things that

39:40

I, we, you know, we didn't know. That kind of

39:42

drove me into the ground. Once

39:44

I got healthy, those things

39:46

become my superpowers. Right?

39:49

Right. So, a Dr. A healthy driver.

39:51

Becomes an inspirational leader, an

39:54

unhealthy driver is something different. Right? So,

39:56

so those, those, those talents and gifts

39:59

that you got don't go away. They're

40:01

no, now they're cleaner, they're healthier,

40:04

and they're more effective.

40:05

A hundred percent. Let me ask about the other end of the spectrum.

40:08

From, from sort of, I don't have enough

40:10

to do and now I've gotta figure out what the next

40:12

challenge is or, or what the next chapter

40:14

is. What about overwhelm? I

40:16

know that's something you talk about a lot. How does that

40:18

show up in leaders and how do you start to

40:20

to, to address it or treat it?

40:23

So basically, you know, I asked the question,

40:25

where do you think overwhelm lives? Like, where do you see,

40:27

where does overwhelm live for you?

40:30

I, I see it in myself and, and,

40:32

and others. You mentioned addictions earlier. Work itself

40:35

can be an addiction, right? And. Busyness,

40:39

as as business so overwhelmed, meaning

40:41

just too much dedication to sort

40:43

of one domain, one vertical,

40:46

and a, a complete lack of focus in other

40:48

areas. That's, that's how everyone shows

40:49

up. So it sounds to me like you get

40:52

overwhelmed when you feel like you're neglecting

40:54

parts of your life. Yeah,

40:56

that's a good question. I, I, I don't I I tend

40:58

to recognize that I think in terms

41:00

of being out of balance in, whether

41:02

that's from a time perspective

41:05

or whether it's just being present when I do

41:07

have the time I, I'm not one who is

41:09

very good at, at thinking yes,

41:11

I shouldn't use the word thinking, feeling you

41:13

asked me about feelings, right? The feeling part of it. That's

41:16

a challenge for me person.

41:17

Sure. So like this whole midlife, this whole

41:20

yeah. You know, mastery, right. For you

41:22

did that come from the fact that you realized

41:24

that you weren. Mastering all these different

41:26

parts of your life. So you decided to build

41:28

this Absolutely. Teach what you need to learn. Absolutely. My,

41:30

my book only tends confront your to-do list,

41:33

transform your life. Came from the fact that I have a d

41:35

h D and I can't pay attention to anything

41:37

and I'm my, and I'm running my own company, right?

41:39

So how do I actually get

41:42

things done? So I, you know I taught,

41:44

I I was teaching what I needed to learn. Right,

41:46

right, right, right. So for me, overwhelm is what

41:49

happens between my. So

41:51

again, your to-do list is not

41:53

what overwhelms you, it's what you

41:55

think about your to-do list that overwhelms

41:58

you. It's the lies that you tell people.

42:01

All day, every day. And the lies that you tell yourself

42:03

when you look at your to-do list, what's on your to-do

42:06

list that doesn't belong there? What's on

42:08

your to-do list? That you didn't set a boundary? What's

42:10

on your to-do list that you didn't delegate? What's

42:13

on your to-do list that you didn't just, you

42:15

just don't want to do, but you think you should do it? So it's on

42:17

your to-do list from yesterday, the day before. The day before.

42:19

You're never gonna get to it and you're just

42:21

lying. So I can, I can, I can get

42:23

someone. Eight hours in their weeks, in 15

42:26

minutes by looking at their to-do list. Mm-hmm. just

42:28

by confronting the bullshit on

42:30

their to-do list. Right. And

42:32

then the self-esteem that goes with those

42:34

things you know, on, on the to-do list.

42:37

So for me it's the difficult conversations

42:39

that you need to have. Which are, you

42:41

know, setting boundaries, asking for help, getting

42:43

clarification, saying no, a

42:45

complete sentence. You know creating really strong

42:47

agreements with people and then

42:49

having a feedback loop. You know, all

42:52

those conversations are the things

42:54

that are gonna get you out of overwhelm and it's something

42:56

that you need to practice every day. Cause I'm, my guess

42:58

is, Who's listening here?

43:00

I can't keep anybody out of overwhelm.

43:03

You know I'm Zen Master Flash and I get overwhelmed.

43:05

I can get people out of overwhelm cuz you

43:07

know, they're gonna, they're gonna wake up and their kids are gonna spill the

43:09

cereal. They're gonna be late for work and their email's gonna be

43:11

full. You're gonna be overwhelmed. Now,

43:14

how do you breathe? How do you ground yourself? How do you stop

43:16

scaring yourself about the fact that you're

43:18

gonna be late for work? And what does that

43:20

mean and all that stuff. And, you know, deal

43:22

with all the bullshit in your mind that

43:24

you're making up that's scaring you. And then

43:26

how do you get centered into reality? And

43:28

by the way, for this overwhelming thing what I'll do is I'm,

43:30

I'm setting up a page for your

43:33

people. Thank you. And they can download a free

43:35

copy of my book, only 10. On the, on the page.

43:38

Ah, it's very

43:38

kind. Appreciate that,

43:39

mark. Thank you. Mark silverman.com/um,

43:44

the name of your podcast, Yeah.

43:46

Or we'll just do slash mastery maybe

43:48

something like that, unless that's already taken.

43:51

Yeah, thank you. Work on that offline and

43:53

No, I know you're the Men of Mastery podcast. I keep

43:55

thinking cuz my, my podcast was mastering

43:58

midlife Right. I keep like going, I

44:00

keep trying to send people to my old podcast. When

44:02

I think of the name of your podcast, that's gonna be

44:04

Men of Mastery. Okay.

44:06

All right. I appreciate that. We'll get links up to it

44:08

with the show notes for this one. Yeah, no, you're, you're completely

44:10

right. Like I just, what was going on in

44:12

my head as you were describing that I can, I can certainly

44:14

relate to, I, I'm in, I'm in the middle

44:16

and have been in the middle of redoing

44:19

this, this home office, home studio for quite a while.

44:21

Right. And so something will happen as we go into the

44:23

weekend here. My, my son, we were talking about

44:25

offline. We'll, Lots of busy stuff

44:27

we gotta run around to and get to run around to.

44:30

And my wife will come up with social stuff.

44:32

I'm, I'm certainly the, the introvert and

44:35

in my mind what's going

44:37

on will be like, oh, you know, I, we

44:39

gotta finish taping the edges

44:41

so we can, so we can paint. And then we got the furniture

44:44

coming and then this, and then that. Right? And, and

44:46

that's all getting delayed by all this other. But

44:49

the reality is nobody else is having that conversation.

44:51

Nobody else is feeling that way. It's only going on between my

44:53

ears. And, you know, what's

44:55

one more day or one more hour when I've been sitting

44:57

on this for two months,

44:59

right? And, and we put it on the back burner. The last

45:01

thing I do in my mastering overwhelm workshop

45:03

is I, I send everybody out for a break, change

45:06

the energy, I bring them back and I say, okay, great. What's

45:08

not on the list? That should be on the list. What,

45:11

what have you been wanting to do? Putting off, doing?

45:14

You know, and it's almost always, I haven't spent

45:16

enough time in my marriage or I haven't

45:18

been with my kids, or I really wanna

45:20

work out or something like that. And then they say, okay,

45:22

so I get make them commit to what

45:24

they're gonna do and they'll say, I'm gonna work out more.

45:27

And I'm like, you can't work out more. What

45:30

do you mean you can't work out more? You can only

45:32

plan to go to the gym. When are you gonna

45:34

go to the gym next? Or are you gonna call a trainer?

45:37

Those are the things you can do. You can't work out more.

45:39

I'm gonna spend more time with your wife. My wife.

45:42

No, you can't spend more time with your wife. When

45:44

are you going to set date night? Hmm.

45:47

Right. And we do, and we do that beforehand

45:49

because we, you know, we forget again,

45:52

there's a, the time between 50

45:54

and 60. You know, is

45:56

so much fast, so much faster than

45:59

I would've ever thought possible. I,

46:01

I keep this thing 4,000 weeks on my wall

46:03

where you check off a week in your life every, every

46:05

day, every week. And I'm

46:08

watching that because, you know, I got, I got what

46:10

good, a good 10 years to create what I

46:12

want to create. And that's all of us. It's

46:15

now, life is now. So go have

46:17

your date with your, with your significant other create,

46:19

you know, you get your, if you want your office, get your

46:21

office.

46:22

Yeah. And it's, those are sort of the peak earning

46:25

years, right? We're, we're starting to realize the

46:27

fruition of the things we've built and

46:29

yeah, it just becomes more and more of, of, of

46:32

all the same challenges in a, in a, sort of, in

46:34

a pressure cooker. Well, so thank you for mentioning the,

46:36

the link and we'll, we'll get that out. You mentioned

46:38

the workshop, so just before we run out of time, take,

46:40

take me through more of how you engage with

46:43

people. The, the workshop, your new book

46:45

coming out for anybody that's really resonates

46:47

with, you know, how they might consider working with.

46:50

Great. So, so the workshop at the mastering

46:52

overwhelm workshop is something I do for leadership

46:54

teams. Okay. And, and CEO round tables

46:56

and things like that is where I just take people in

46:59

a morning or an afternoon through

47:01

their world, their inner and outer world, and help

47:03

them get out of overwhelm and, and deal with

47:05

the things in their lives. The Rising Leader

47:08

Workshop is being built now. So we're on,

47:10

we're on module two of 12. It's gonna be a a

47:12

12 module. Training, you know,

47:14

again, leading up, leading across

47:17

leading your team and then leading yourself.

47:19

And we're going to be practical and, and

47:21

really, you know specific tasks

47:24

in order by the end of that 12 weeks for you to be

47:26

a, a, a rockstar corporate citizen

47:28

who is, you know, kind of making

47:31

their own way in the organization. So

47:33

that's, that. That'll be coming probably in

47:35

about a month and a half. Okay. So we'll

47:37

do

47:37

that. That's, that's a 12 week or 12.

47:39

It's a 12 module course and

47:41

we're now just trying to decide do we do it 12

47:43

weeks in a row? Cause I've talked to my clients about it and they're like,

47:46

mark, it's taken me three years to assimilate

47:48

everything that you've taught me. right? How can I do it

47:50

in 12 weeks? So we're trying to decide,

47:52

but, but most people won't learn. So

47:55

I think what we're gonna do is do a 12 week course

47:58

and then put them into a pool of people so

48:00

that there's a, a community

48:02

and, and go that way. So I'm still formulating that.

48:04

Should have a, should have a product ready to go when I'm on

48:06

a great podcast like this. But, you know, we're building it.

48:09

So go to mark j silverman.com and you'll, you can

48:11

watch that and, and see, and see when that

48:13

shows up.

48:14

Okay. Yeah, I appreciate that. It's, it's crazy

48:16

how we have so many. Tools that we tend

48:18

to apply in the business world. You know, like this overwhelm

48:20

concept of, you know, if it

48:22

were, if it were a business overwhelm, we'd probably

48:24

just sit down and we'd, we'd come up with some kind

48:26

of a waiting and we'd prioritize

48:28

and urgency and importance and all that kind of

48:30

stuff. And then we, and we'd figure it out, right? And we'd,

48:33

we'd rank it and we'd attack it. But we don't

48:35

do that ourselves in our personal life so much.

48:38

No, no, especially as men, we're not, we're not, we're

48:40

not taught that. Also on, you know, on the page, it's, it's

48:42

interesting, most, my, most of my clients have a d d too,

48:44

even if it's undiagnosed and they won't read my

48:46

book. They're like, mark, can you make a little five minute

48:48

video of that concept? So

48:51

on that page where my, where you can download my book for

48:53

your, for your listeners, there's all those

48:55

videos that I make for my clients are on

48:57

their and with worksheets for them. So they can, they can actually

49:00

do the Mastering Overwhelmed workshop all

49:02

by themselves in front of their.

49:04

Nice. Okay, fantastic. That's, that sounds

49:06

really beneficial. I was just, just one, one last

49:08

question that sort of popped up for me. You mentioned asking

49:10

for help earlier, and, and that's

49:13

something I can relate to as, as one

49:15

of the hardest things for myself,

49:17

for, for men. I think a lot of men do you,

49:19

do you see that or what, what's what's kind of the hardest

49:21

thing that you see men on this

49:23

journey being able to do or.

49:26

Asking for help is almost impossible. Almo,

49:29

almost impossible. I, I, I was talking to one

49:32

executive who has

49:34

d dyslexia put

49:37

himself through law school. Was a, you know, as an executive

49:39

in a multinational corporation and was

49:41

in tears a lot of nights

49:43

in the middle of the night. And he, he, he

49:46

confided in me. He goes, he, he says, you know, mark,

49:48

you've known me all this time cuz he is an executive that

49:50

I knew. He says, but this

49:52

is, it takes me three times as much work

49:54

to do what everybody else does not. I was shocked

49:56

cuz like, I'm like, this guy's a freaking stud,

49:58

right? I said, wow,

50:01

have you shared that with your wife? And I know his wife, his wife's

50:03

amazing. He says, no, I don't wanna burden

50:05

her. Like, really?

50:08

She doesn't know that you're having

50:10

panic attacks in the middle of the night because of how hard this

50:12

is for you. He says, I would never

50:14

burden her with that. I said, okay

50:17

with, as with every conversation, you can say yes,

50:19

no, or renegotiate, but I would love

50:21

for you to go have a conversation with your wife and let her

50:23

know about this stress because

50:26

I want you to have a teammate. I

50:28

happen to know your wife and I know that she can

50:30

handle this and it's not a burden to her. And

50:33

he went and talked to her and she was.

50:36

I got you babe. You know, like, like I

50:38

love you, right? That's the hardest thing for

50:40

men to do, right? And it's

50:42

hard cuz sometimes, sometimes, you know, their wives

50:44

aren't safe, right? If they show vulnerability,

50:46

their wives get scared. It's not that they're

50:48

bad, you know, wives, they'll, they'll get

50:51

scared. So it's, it's, it, it,

50:53

it's hard. But, you know, really kind of

50:55

bringing your partner on board to what

50:57

you're trying to create creates intimacy. Creates closeness

51:00

and creates you not giving away half your money

51:02

when you're 15 or 60 years old, because

51:04

then you're with the person that you always loved. Yeah,

51:07

I like that story. It's, it's, it's really powerful.

51:09

Share a quick one with you in, in case the,

51:12

something like this is,

51:14

is useful or you wanna steer one of your clients this

51:16

direction. So some of the way that, that

51:18

I've explor. Learning and, and

51:20

I think I said earlier, off air, a lot of

51:22

times we learn the hard way. So one of those hard ways

51:24

to learn, one of those ways to really show up in

51:26

this, this metaphor for adversity

51:29

is, is physically right. So I've

51:31

gone and done a few physical. Team-based

51:34

crucibles where,

51:36

you know, you're, you're put through stuff that is extremely

51:39

stressful, physically, mentally,

51:41

emotionally, and you gotta figure it out as an individual

51:44

and you gotta figure it out as a team. And there are times

51:46

when you may step up or be called on to lead

51:48

or to follow. And there are

51:50

certainly times that you're gonna have your strengths show

51:53

up as an asset to the team. And there are times

51:55

that you. You're gonna be weak. You're gonna need help,

51:57

and you're gonna have to ask for help, and you're gonna have to get over

52:00

being a burden on the team, right? Because that's

52:02

just how it, how it goes and how it works. And

52:04

so that's a, it's a really interesting sort

52:06

of metaphor for life to go, to go do something

52:09

like that. Mm-hmm. And then take those lessons back

52:11

to, to the personal life and, and the business life.

52:13

So I don't know if, if you've steered people that

52:15

kind of direction, but if it ever shows up for one of your

52:17

clients or you think it's, it's an idea they would like,

52:19

I'd love to put you in touch with some.

52:21

100, 100% it, again, it, it takes,

52:23

it takes exp, you know, experiential stuff like

52:26

that. You don't, you're not gonna, unless you're in the cor crucible,

52:28

you're not gonna know what on your nervous system, what that feels

52:30

like. Unless you're carried across the finish

52:32

line, you're not gonna know what it's like, right.

52:34

To allow your team to take, take care of things.

52:36

So you're a hundred percent right.

52:38

Great. Fantastic. Well, mark, I,

52:40

I really appreciate you taking time today. I

52:43

I didn't go through your whole resume and, and we'll

52:45

get it up with the show notes for this episode,

52:47

but I know you have worked with some incredible

52:49

companies. You've worked with some incredible

52:52

leaders and, and. Corporations

52:54

to the point where, you know, the dollar figure

52:56

in terms of measuring the success that you've helped

52:58

in part is, is amazing. So,

53:01

you know, I, I appreciate you coming to, to tell your

53:03

story and so modestly

53:05

tell you know, your story as a, as a coach,

53:08

but I appreciate the work you're doing out there in the world.

53:10

It's something that so many leaders and so many men

53:12

need and, and I'm honored

53:14

to, to share a bit of it here with the audience.

53:16

Thank you, thank you for the work you're doing. It's, I, I,

53:18

again your, your library is incredible.

53:21

So I look forward, I look forward to actually listening

53:23

to a bunch of mo the other episodes.

53:25

Oh, thank you, mark. I, I appreciate that. That means a lot

53:27

coming from you. So Mark j silverman.com.

53:30

I'll work with you to get some links up and we'll get get

53:32

some tools and folks hands and then

53:34

get people in touch with you if, if they'd like to

53:36

on your upcoming leader. Leading up.

53:38

Leading across, leading within. I love that. And

53:41

we'll go from there. Again, I appreciate your time.

53:43

Thank you, mark.

53:44

Great to meet you. Take care.