0:02

Coming up on the program

0:04

today, going broke, going public,

0:07

and going down to Alabama

0:09

from American Public Media. This

0:12

is Marketplace. In

0:22

Baltimore, I'm Amy Scott in for Kai

0:24

Risdahl. It's Tuesday, May 7th. Good

0:27

to have you with us. There's

0:29

some moderately good news this week

0:31

for those who depend or soon

0:33

will depend on Medicare and Social

0:35

Security benefits. The money that

0:37

pays for those programs will last a

0:39

little longer than previously expected per the

0:42

latest reports to Congress. The

0:44

so-called go broke date for Social Security

0:46

has been pushed back one year to

0:48

2035. For

0:50

Medicare, that date's been extended an additional

0:52

five years to 2036. What

0:56

happens after that remains a huge

0:58

problem to solve, though. Marketplace's

1:01

Sabrie Beneschur has more. If

1:03

the Pentagon wants money, Congress decides, or sometimes

1:06

fails to decide, to give it. Also, how

1:08

much to give and how to pay for

1:10

it. That is not how Social

1:12

Security and Medicare work. The Social Security

1:14

and Medicare programs operate out of

1:16

trust funds. They're not part of the federal

1:18

budget. Bill Sweeney is senior vice

1:21

president for government affairs at AARP. Sweeney

1:23

goes into these trust funds from taxes on

1:26

our paychecks and goes out to people who've

1:28

reached retirement age. No Congress, just formulas, and

1:30

math. Unfortunately, the math

1:32

isn't mafing. When the

1:34

program was set up, there were about

1:36

four workers for every person receiving Social

1:38

Security benefits. That number's under three

1:41

today, and it's expected to get closer to

1:43

two. So by about 2033, the

1:45

formula starts to break. Social Security and

1:48

Medicare do not go broke. They

1:50

just can't pay what they're supposed to. Bill McBride

1:52

is vice president of federal tax policy at the

1:54

Tax Foundation. This projection

1:56

indicates that benefits will be

1:59

cut immediately. after 2033

2:01

by 21 percent. Which

2:03

is awful. Teresa Ghilarducci is a

2:05

professor of economics at the New School for

2:07

Social Research. It will trigger

2:09

huge increases in poverty rates. The

2:12

date at which Social Security and Medicare fall

2:14

short was actually pushed out a few years

2:17

this forecast helped by rising wages for lower-income

2:19

workers, Ghilarducci says, but it's been floating around

2:21

2035 for decades. People

2:23

who study politics say

2:26

that Congress probably won't do anything until

2:29

we're right on top of that date. And

2:32

by then it will be much more expensive

2:34

to fix. In New York I'm Sabri Ben-Eshor

2:36

for Marketplace. On Wall Street today

2:38

a little up, a little down. We'll

2:40

have the details when we do the

2:42

numbers. Just

3:03

as Medicare and Social Security have

3:05

go-broke dates, I guess we kind

3:07

of do too. Retirement planning

3:10

is a source of stress for

3:12

many of us and according to

3:14

data from the National Institute on

3:16

Retirement Security more than half of

3:18

Americans are worried they won't achieve

3:20

financial security in retirement. And then

3:22

to make matters worse while certain assets

3:25

are meant to be boons later in

3:27

life, home ownership doesn't always pan out

3:29

the way we might expect. Paula Spann

3:31

wrote about that for the New York

3:33

Times and joins me now. Paula welcome

3:35

to the program. Thanks Amy. You

3:38

start your piece with the story of a

3:40

retired couple in New Hampshire who

3:42

are kind of stuck. They'd like to

3:44

move but find it's not so easy.

3:46

Tell us about their situation. Well

3:49

they did what traditionally people do

3:51

if they can. They bought a

3:53

house when they were younger, they paid

3:55

off the mortgage and

3:57

then you have your ATM, your piggy

4:00

bank, you have this appreciated asset that

4:02

you can sell and downsize if your

4:04

kids leave or you can sell to

4:07

fund assisted living if you need it

4:10

or you can stay in it and borrow

4:12

against the house to fund your retirement when

4:14

your income drops. The problem with

4:16

these folks in New Hampshire is that

4:18

as their house gained

4:20

value from rising prices,

4:23

so did everything else around them and

4:25

they found it hard to find a

4:27

place to move into, a place

4:30

that was smaller, a place that had

4:32

fewer steps and where they didn't have to shovel

4:34

snow or mow the lawn. So

4:36

there's a question of where do you go

4:39

and that led an economist from the

4:41

Urban Institute to say to me,

4:43

are folks aging in place

4:45

or are they stuck in place

4:48

because this traditional pattern has shifted.

4:51

And of course there is probably a

4:53

young family that would love to buy

4:55

that couple's house and move into it.

4:58

How is this gumming up the housing

5:00

market? Well, a couple

5:02

of things have shifted. First of

5:05

all, this idea of your house as

5:07

an ATM requires that you've mostly paid

5:09

off the house. But the number of

5:12

older Americans who still have a mortgage

5:14

has been climbing fairly sharply for

5:17

several decades. So it was 24% in 1989 and now it's

5:19

well over 40% and people owe more

5:21

also adjusted for inflation.

5:28

So even though their own housing

5:30

equity has risen sharply, it still

5:33

may not be enough to fund

5:35

their retirement if they don't

5:37

borrow against it. We've

5:39

talked about how builders just aren't

5:41

building a lot of entry-level housing

5:43

period but sometimes that

5:46

so-called entry-level housing is actually what

5:48

older homeowners are looking for, right?

5:50

Smaller homes, less space and as

5:52

you mentioned, fewer stairs. Yes.

5:55

So this older couple, they did finally have

5:57

a happy ending, by the way, Amy. I

6:00

heard from them a couple of days ago. They did find a

6:02

house. It was a two-floor house, but

6:04

there was a bedroom and a bathroom on the

6:06

first floor. But they said the

6:08

competition was intense, the price was a

6:10

little stomach churning, they had

6:13

to make a cash offer. That is not

6:15

an option that's available to a whole

6:17

lot of older homeowners looking to downsize.

6:20

You write that for Black and Hispanic

6:22

homeowners, more of their wealth is tied

6:24

up in their houses as opposed to

6:27

the stock market or in savings? That's

6:30

right, a lot of their wealth is tied

6:32

up in this house and they may struggle

6:34

to hold onto it. And that's because historically

6:37

Black and Hispanic workers

6:40

were lower paid, steered into lower

6:42

paying occupations. Now their social security

6:44

checks are lower because of that.

6:47

So these houses are not

6:49

gonna be likely to fund

6:51

their retirement. And they

6:53

are more likely to be cost

6:55

burdened than white homeowners. What

6:58

are some solutions from the experts you talked to?

7:01

Well, there are some things that policy makers

7:03

could do. For one

7:05

thing, lenders really ought to

7:07

be broadening their criteria for credit

7:10

worthiness. I've written in the

7:12

past about people who own multiple properties. They

7:14

have big retirement accounts, they have plenty

7:17

of money, but they get turned down

7:19

for mortgages because their income is lower.

7:21

I mean, that's just not really sensible.

7:23

So overall, is it still better to

7:26

be a homeowner than a renter? Well,

7:28

yes, overall, it still is. You are

7:30

less likely to be cost burdened and

7:32

you're less at the mercy of a

7:35

landlord. But there is this

7:37

sort of log jam of older people

7:39

with lots of equity looking to get

7:41

out of their houses and younger people

7:43

meeting houses and a lot

7:45

of people, not just older but younger ones

7:47

feeling stuck where they are. All

7:50

right, Paula Spann is a reporter with the

7:53

New York Times. She writes the new old

7:55

age column. Thanks so much for

7:57

sharing your reporting. Thanks, Amy. As

8:12

corporate earnings season rolls on, there was

8:14

a newcomer on the calendar today. Reddit

8:17

posted its quarterly earnings for the first time

8:19

since its March IPO, a net loss of

8:21

$575 million, the revenue was up. The

8:26

web forum where users discuss the

8:28

news, get skincare advice, even run-up

8:30

stock prices has not itself been

8:33

much of a moneymaker so far. So

8:36

today we're going to do a little

8:38

TLDR, that's Reddit speak, for summary on

8:40

who is buying what Reddit is selling.

8:42

And also, what exactly is Reddit selling

8:44

these days? Marketplace's Elizabeth

8:47

Trovall has that story. While

8:50

consultant BJ Pitchman says there's no

8:52

limit to the data pit that

8:54

is Reddit. If you're

8:56

into camping, there's a subreddit

8:58

called Camping. Campers ask

9:00

questions, give advice, great gear. It's

9:03

a trove of product information, which

9:05

is why he hopes the platform

9:07

gets better at targeted ads. To

9:10

date, they haven't done a great job of it, to

9:13

be honest. They have struggled

9:15

to be profitable. That's

9:17

why AI is a big part of

9:19

Reddit's new plan, says Samantha Shory with

9:22

UT Austin. A lot of

9:24

this information is written in a way

9:26

that is simple, direct, and informative. That's

9:29

super helpful to AI developers who

9:31

are looking to train models to

9:33

produce information that is accessible,

9:36

informative. Selling data

9:38

may be good for revenue, but it's

9:40

not so good for data scientists like

9:43

Stevie Chancellor with University of Minnesota, who

9:45

researches mental health. Quite frankly,

9:48

we can't afford to pay what companies

9:50

pay. Though Reddit still has

9:52

that old school feel, the newly

9:54

public company has bills to pay.

9:57

It has some 2,000 staff, says Lehigh

9:59

University. professor Donald Bowen.

10:02

They need to pay for more servers and

10:05

hard drives than they ever have because their

10:07

user base continues to grow and produce new

10:09

content. And now since Reddit

10:11

is public we can finally learn

10:13

more about the company's ad revenue,

10:15

growth metrics, and fatal licensing.

10:18

I'm Elizabeth Provol, her market. The

10:33

Chinese company that owns TikTok is

10:35

suing to challenge a new law

10:37

requiring ByteDance to sell off its

10:39

social media app by January or

10:41

face an outright ban in this

10:43

country. The fact that Congress

10:45

and the White House are involved at

10:47

all in this dispute is a little

10:49

unusual. That's because the details of deciding

10:51

whether or not a foreign company can

10:54

invest in a U.S. business or own

10:56

it outright is usually left

10:58

to the Committee on Foreign Investment in

11:00

the United States. CFIUS for

11:02

short. Marketplace's Justin Ho has more

11:04

on what the committee is and what it's

11:06

been up to. CFIUS is

11:09

made up of representatives from a grab

11:11

bag of government agencies with big national

11:13

security responsibilities including the Departments of Defense

11:16

and Homeland Security. We also

11:18

have agencies who have economic

11:20

and commercial responsibilities so including

11:22

the Department of Commerce, the

11:24

U.S. Trade Representative's Office, State

11:26

Department. That's Emily Kilcree. She

11:28

used to be a staffer at the

11:30

Trade Representative's Office and the Commerce Department

11:32

and she represented both agencies on CFIUS.

11:34

Now she's at the Center for a

11:36

New American Security. Kilcree says

11:38

the committee's goal is to look at foreign

11:40

investment like a foreign company buying an American

11:43

one and figure out whether it raises a

11:45

national security concern. It's kind of

11:47

a flexible definition of national security and

11:50

it can take into consideration economic

11:52

considerations but it always has

11:55

to come back to a national security

11:57

risk. For instance if a foreign company

12:00

by an American military supplier, but

12:02

also? Protection of critical

12:04

infrastructure, including cybersecurity elements, that

12:06

certainly counts as national security.

12:09

We're worried about supply chains more broadly these

12:11

days, so that would certainly be something that

12:14

would be considered national security. The

12:16

committee didn't always have such a broad purview. It was

12:18

first created in 1975 to study foreign investment. Back

12:22

then, the U.S. was getting a little

12:24

insecure about Japan. Japanese exports

12:26

were taking off in the U.S.

12:29

market, including cars, consumer electronics, and

12:31

semiconductors. And the Japanese were making

12:33

investments, including in real estate. Like

12:36

hotels in Hawaii and the Rockefeller

12:38

Center was acquired by Mitsubishi

12:40

Real Estate, you know? So there was

12:42

quite some concern that Japan was buying

12:44

up the United States. Ulrika

12:47

Shada is a professor of Japanese business at

12:49

UC San Diego. She says trade frictions with

12:51

Japan got hotter through the 80s, especially

12:54

after a number of Japanese companies tried

12:56

to purchase American firms that supplied the

12:58

military. So in 88, Congress

13:00

made a big change to CFIUS. Specifically

13:04

formulated to empower CFIUS to

13:06

stop foreign acquisitions of U.S.

13:08

companies. This allowed the president

13:10

to jump in and block a transaction

13:12

on national security concerns, if CFIUS recommended

13:14

it. But by the early 90s,

13:17

Japan's economy had faded. And

13:19

with it went away the trade frictions

13:21

between the U.S. and Japan. Fast

13:24

forward to the 2010s, and China's

13:26

growing economic power. Rob Atkinson,

13:28

president of the Information Technology

13:30

and Innovation Foundation, says the U.S.

13:32

started getting concerned that if a Chinese

13:34

company bought an American one? Basically,

13:37

they have the keys to the kingdom. They can

13:39

take all of the technology, the patents, the knowledge,

13:41

all of that, and they can move it over

13:43

to China and build up their own industry. So

13:46

in 2018, Congress expanded CFIUS's power

13:48

again, allowing it to investigate smaller

13:50

foreign investments. Think venture capital. It can

13:52

also block sensitive real estate deals, like

13:55

if a Chinese company wanted to buy

13:57

some land next to a military

13:59

base. In the time since, the

14:01

number of deals under CFIUS review has been

14:04

steadily increasing. The White House has

14:06

only blocked a handful of deals in the

14:08

last decade, but Emily Kilcree, so the Center

14:10

for a New American Security, says the mere

14:12

possibility of a CFIUS investigation can have a

14:14

chilling effect. There's even more

14:17

cases where CFIUS has identified concerns and

14:19

the transaction parties decide that they're just

14:21

going to voluntarily abandon the deal, so

14:23

to speak, and that isn't always a public thing.

14:26

This also has the option of recommending tweaks

14:28

to the deal, rather than blocking it outright.

14:31

One concern is whether the uptick in

14:33

CFIUS investigations will cause foreign investment to

14:35

slow down. Rob Atkinson, at

14:38

the Information Technology and Innovation Foundation,

14:40

says foreign investment can be really

14:42

beneficial. The best kind of foreign

14:44

investment for the United States is a company coming

14:46

in here and building something and saying, we want

14:48

to be here, we want a producer, we want

14:50

to hire American workers here. Atkinson says

14:53

those are the kinds of foreign investments

14:55

that CFIUS should encourage. I'm

14:57

Justin Howe for Marketplace. Coming

15:01

up. Being

15:15

financially secure is a

15:17

great mood

15:19

stabilizer. No prescription

15:22

required. But first, let's do

15:24

the numbers. The

15:26

Dow Jones Industrial Average gained 31 points, less than 1.10%,

15:28

a finish at 38,884. The

15:33

NASDAQ lost 16 points, 1.10%, a close of 16,332. And

15:38

the S&P 500 added 6 points, 1.10%, and at 51.87. We

15:44

heard from Elizabeth Trowvall about how exactly

15:46

Reddit makes money as they posted their

15:48

first quarterly earnings since their IPO in

15:50

March. That news came after the close.

15:53

Reddit added 2.3% looking

15:56

at some other social media stocks. Pinterest

15:58

grew 1.25%. percent alphabet,

16:00

which owns YouTube, was up one

16:02

and nine-tenths percent. Bonds rose, the

16:04

yield on the tenure keynote fell

16:06

to 4.46 percent.

16:09

You're listening to Marketplace. Hey

16:15

everyone, it's Rima Khres, host of This

16:17

is Uncomfortable. If you're looking for some

16:19

good recommendations on books to read, well

16:21

you should join This is Uncomfortable's summer

16:23

book club. Every other week

16:25

in our newsletter, we'll share a new book

16:28

that'll make you rethink your relationship to money,

16:30

class, and work, while also featuring

16:32

an interview with the author or an expert

16:34

on the topic. Plus, when you join,

16:36

you'll be entered in a giveaway where you could

16:38

win some This is Uncomfortable merch. Be

16:41

sure to check it out. Sign up

16:43

today at marketplace.org slash book

16:45

club. This

16:50

is Marketplace. I'm Amy Scott. The

16:52

United Auto Workers scored another big

16:54

win in the South late last

16:56

month. Workers at a Volkswagen

16:58

plant in Chattanooga, Tennessee, voted to

17:00

join the UAW after two previous

17:03

union drives there had failed. It's

17:05

part of a campaign to organize

17:07

thousands of workers at foreign-owned automakers

17:10

across the South. The

17:12

next test will be a union

17:14

vote at two Mercedes-Benz plants near

17:16

Tuscaloosa, Alabama. Marketplace's Mitchell

17:18

Hartman has this report. I

17:21

met a huge racetrack outside Birmingham

17:23

on a sunny Sunday in April

17:25

for the IndyCar Grand Prix, a

17:28

massive crowd packs the bleachers as the

17:30

souped-up sports cars roll to the starting

17:32

line. There's

17:44

also something going on above the track. A

17:47

small airplane circles overhead, pulling a banner

17:49

that reads, Support Auto

17:51

Workers, Union Solidarity. It's

17:54

encouraging Alabama Mercedes-Benz workers to vote yes in

17:56

their union election next week. join

18:00

the United Auto Workers, and help

18:02

spread unionization across the South. IndyCar

18:05

fan Scott Taylor isn't a fan

18:07

of the UAW. The reason

18:10

Mercedes came to Alabama is because there wasn't

18:12

a union. If you make yourself the same price

18:14

as the guys in Detroit, you're going to

18:16

drive Mercedes out of here. But

18:18

the UAWs also got supporters. Carl

18:21

Uvaughn was shopping for IndyCar merch.

18:24

Unions in America have been not

18:26

looked at in a good light. If you want people who are

18:28

going to get behind your cars and you're a union worker in

18:30

the automotive industry, like, the race is the way to

18:32

do it, I'm done. Drive

18:35

about half an hour west, and

18:37

you come to Mercedes-Benz, massive vehicle

18:39

and battery complex, tucked among rolling

18:41

hills along I-20. It's

18:44

on a thousand acres the state of Alabama

18:46

gifted in the early 1990s. Mercedes

18:49

has invested billions since then.

18:52

The company employs about 5,200 production

18:54

workers who make some of the

18:56

highest blue-collar wages in the state.

18:59

From where I'm from, Mercedes seemed

19:01

like, you know, the ideal job.

19:03

They paid, well, so much better

19:05

benefits. I met 24-year-old

19:08

Moesha Chandler at UAW Local

19:10

112, headquarters for

19:12

the Mercedes Workers Vote Yes

19:14

campaign. It's in a strip

19:16

mall between a Dollar General and a Family

19:18

Dollar Store a few miles from the plant.

19:23

Chandler makes $24.50 an hour

19:25

and struggles to make ends meet

19:27

in nearby Tuscaloosa, a college town

19:29

where rents are high. Her

19:31

brother, a union auto worker at Ford

19:34

in Michigan, just got a big raise

19:36

under the UAW's new contract with the

19:38

big three. I'm not too much of

19:40

a picky worker. I know I didn't come to work at

19:42

a cupcake factory, but I do

19:44

feel like I should be properly compensated, especially

19:47

from the wear and tear that it causes on your body.

19:50

At his ranch home with a

19:52

pool out back, Mercedes worker Jay

19:54

White says he's doing just fine.

19:57

We work in a facility this air conditioner can

19:59

do. We are not

20:02

pulling fresh lumber off the green

20:04

chain, laying asphalt. We have a

20:06

very nice job. White's

20:09

active in a group that urges fellow

20:12

workers to vote no on unionizing. He

20:14

makes the top wage 34 an hour and says

20:17

with Alabama's low cost of living, he's

20:20

doing as well as UAW workers in the

20:22

north without the interference of a

20:24

union. We recognize

20:26

individual responsibility. That's why we're

20:28

right to work state. Which

20:31

contributes to the anti-union environment

20:34

here. Gallup recently found

20:36

two-thirds of people in the south disapprove

20:38

of unions. In the rest of the

20:40

country, it's slightly less than half. The

20:44

company is showing vote no videos like

20:46

this one to workers on the job.

20:49

What do unions cost? We've

20:51

already spent some time talking

20:53

about union membership dues. The

20:55

NLRB is investigating UAW allegations

20:57

of unfair labor practices. Mercedes-Benz

21:00

didn't respond to questions by our

21:02

deadline. Meanwhile, Republican

21:05

political and business leaders have

21:07

warned unionization could drive major

21:09

employers out. University

21:11

of Alabama labor economist Peter Brumman

21:14

thinks that's a bit far-fetched. Mercedes

21:17

has been here for a long time. The

21:19

other manufacturers have made significant investments. It's

21:21

going to be hard for them to leave. And

21:23

after multiple union failures in the south?

21:25

I don't think it's unthinkable they can

21:27

win. Brumman says

21:30

politics favors the anti-UAW side.

21:32

But economics? Not so much.

21:35

Alabama is definitely Republican. But

21:38

I think when you see similar

21:40

workers making more, yeah,

21:42

sure, I'm going to vote Republican on those other issues. But

21:45

when it comes to pay increase, that's like in your

21:47

pocket. After the Mercedes

21:50

vote next week, the UAW organizing

21:52

drive moves on to a Hyundai

21:54

plant in Montgomery and a Toyota

21:56

facility in Missouri. I'm

21:59

Mitchell Hartman for Market In

22:15

last Friday's weaker than expected jobs

22:18

report, some industries did make gains,

22:20

notably transportation. The transit and ground

22:22

passenger transportation sector has added more

22:24

than 20,000 jobs since April

22:28

of last year. Good news

22:30

for those looking to make a career

22:32

switch like the subject of today's installment

22:34

of our series, My Economy. My

22:37

name's Liz Young. I use he,

22:39

him, his pronouns. I'm

22:41

in Denver, Colorado, and I'm

22:43

a signal traction maintainer

22:46

for the Regional Transportation

22:48

District. Before

22:54

what I'm doing now, I was an

22:56

actuarial analyst. The work was really interesting.

22:59

I really liked the mathiness of it

23:01

and the programming, but honestly, I was

23:03

really unhappy with it. Like

23:05

the whole time I was working 60 plus hours a

23:07

week. When COVID happened, I

23:09

had the perfect excuse to find

23:12

my way out. So I, I

23:14

left. I

23:21

floated for a little while. I tried out grad

23:23

school in a field that didn't work out for

23:25

me and was trying to figure out

23:27

where I wanted to land. I

23:29

had applied for probably two

23:31

dozen positions at Regional Transportation

23:33

District. The folks who run

23:35

the light rail maintenance shop

23:38

gave me a call and offered me an interview

23:41

for a service in cleaning, where you clean

23:43

the inside and outside of the light rail

23:45

vehicles. I

23:48

came in and as a surprise

23:50

to me, you know, they, they offered me the job

23:52

on the spot. So

23:56

when I started, my, my wage was, you know,

23:58

about 23 something. an hour,

24:00

I was making the same

24:03

that I was like actually a little more

24:06

than when I left being an

24:08

actual analyst. And now that I'm

24:11

in signal power, if

24:13

I were doing an apples to apples

24:16

comparison, I'd be making more

24:18

than double what I was making before. Being

24:26

financially secure is a

24:28

great mood

24:30

stabilizer. I know that I'm going to

24:32

be able to pay for my mortgage, I'm going to be able to

24:34

pay for my food, I can support my

24:36

partner, I can do

24:39

some fun stuff, I can even travel a little bit

24:41

if I want. I

24:46

learned pretty quickly when I was cleaning

24:48

trains that this was the right career

24:51

change for me. I

24:53

get so much joy from doing this job.

24:56

People comment regularly that I look happy

24:58

and I have a smile on my

25:00

face and that's kind of

25:02

new in my life at

25:04

36 and it's nice

25:06

to reflect on that. Liz

25:12

Young working happily in public

25:14

transit in Denver, Colorado. You

25:17

can tell us about your

25:19

economy at marketplace.org/my economy. This

25:39

final note on the way out, I

25:41

saw this in the Wall Street Journal,

25:43

Gen Z is carrying more credit card

25:45

debt than previous generations. According

25:47

to the credit bureau trans union, the average

25:49

ballots for 22 to 24 year olds is

25:53

about $500 higher adjusted for inflation

25:55

than for the same age group

25:57

a decade ago. The report

25:59

says students loans, inflation, and

26:01

especially higher rents all play

26:03

a role. Our digital and

26:06

on-demand team includes Kerry Barber,

26:08

Jordan Manji, Dylan Mietenen, Janet

26:10

Nguyen, Olga Ochsman, Ellen Rolfes,

26:13

Virginia K. Smith, and Tony

26:15

Wagner. Francesca Levy is the

26:17

executive director of digital and

26:20

on-demand. And I'm Amy

26:22

Spass. We will be back tomorrow. This

26:40

is APM. Hey

26:44

everyone, it's Rima Khres, host of This

26:46

is Uncomfortable. If you're looking for some

26:48

good recommendations on books to read, well

26:51

you should join This is Uncomfortable's summer

26:53

book club. Every other week

26:55

in our newsletter, we'll share a new book

26:57

that'll make you rethink your relationship to money,

26:59

class, and work while also featuring

27:02

an interview with the author or an expert

27:04

on the topic. Plus, when you

27:06

join, you'll be entered in a giveaway where you

27:08

could win some This is Uncomfortable merch. Be

27:10

sure to check it out. Sign up

27:13

today at marketplace.org slash book

27:15

club.