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com boom boom boom boom boom boom Pow. Come from

1:04

program Hello Welcome to the Marathon Training

1:06

Academy Podcast: Worry and power you to

1:08

run a marathon A change your life.

1:10

I'm Trevor. And I'm Angie. In

1:12

this episode, we speak with Mark Paulina,

1:14

author of the Boston Marathon Handbook an

1:17

insider's guide to training and succeeding in

1:19

the Ultimate Road Race. Plus will give

1:21

you a quick rundown of what happened

1:24

at this year's Boston Marathon. and hey,

1:26

we're helping runners every year qualify for

1:28

the Boston Marathon. If that's go you

1:31

have, We definitely have to help you

1:33

get there you go. Learn all about

1:35

coaching an academy membership when you visit

1:37

Marathon Training academy.com. Or

1:40

right? So let's jump right into. It the

1:42

hundred and twenty eighth Boston Marathon. Quick

1:44

round up here of what went down.

1:46

Of course you and I were not

1:48

there this year, but I enjoyed watching

1:50

the race through the livestream. It's always

1:53

fun. That's right, very exciting

1:55

race horses always held on Patriot's

1:57

Day which was Monday, April fifteenth

1:59

this year. Former Patriots tight

2:01

end Rob Gronkowski served as the

2:03

grandmaster for the race. In

2:05

the wheelchair division, Marcel Hugge of Switzerland

2:08

was first place in 115.33, where

2:12

he broke his own course record and

2:14

earned his seventh Boston win, despite

2:17

crashing into a wall in Newton. So

2:19

he recovered and went on to just, I

2:21

think, decimate his own course record by like

2:24

two minutes. A newer racer

2:26

was the women's wheelchair winner that was Eden

2:28

Rainbow Cooper of Great Britain, who finished in

2:30

135.11. In

2:33

the men's race, Sisé Lemma of Ethiopia led from

2:35

about mile five and held on to win with

2:37

a time of 2.06.17. It

2:41

was the first time in a while that Ethiopia has

2:43

topped the podium. The first

2:45

American man was C.J. Albert Senn in

2:47

2.09.53. He came

2:49

in in seventh place. He's a

2:51

name that you see every year. Yeah, and

2:53

he's like slowly kind of just improved his time

2:56

and worked his way up in the standing. In

2:59

the women's race, 20 women stayed in

3:01

the main pack until the final three

3:03

miles, where three Kenyans pulled away to

3:05

finish strong. Defending Boston and New York

3:07

City champ Helen Obiri was first in

3:09

2.22.37, followed by Sharon Lokiti in 2.22.45.

3:16

Emma Bates, who was coming back from injury, was

3:18

the first American woman in 2.27.14 in 12th place.

3:23

Following shortly after, Sarah Hall finished 15th in 2.27.48 on

3:25

her 41st birthday, which has got to be special. Des

3:32

Linden, age 40, was right behind her

3:34

in 16th place, finishing her 11th

3:36

Boston in 2.28.27. This

3:40

year would have been 10 years after

3:42

Meb Keflesky won the Boston Marathon. He

3:45

crossed the finish line again this year, hand

3:47

in hand with two fellow runners waving an

3:49

American flag. He Wore

3:51

Bib number 2014 and ran for

3:53

the Meb Foundation, which is his

3:55

nonprofit that works to empower young

3:57

people and promote health and education.

4:00

And He finished. And three O Eight Fifty eight.

4:03

He. Says great guy of got the meet couple

4:05

times. He as this the quality human

4:07

being and other notable finisher was Amby

4:09

Burfoot. He was the nineteen Sixty A

4:11

champion. He finished in for fifty nine

4:14

at the age of seventy seven while

4:16

wearing his bed from that race fifty

4:18

six years ago. Nice. Very impressive that

4:20

he kept it says he says I

4:22

always say that every mile is a

4:24

guest and I had twenty Six Miles

4:26

of Guess Today To me it's a

4:29

celebration of life and seventy seven years

4:31

old now and I'm gonna keep coming

4:33

back because I want to celebrate my

4:35

life. And the Boston Marathon. Very.

4:38

Cool. And of course, Boston

4:40

Marathon. Course Director Dave Mcgillivray finished his

4:42

fifty second consecutive race inside Twenty One

4:44

Oh Three. And this is the first

4:46

time he's run one in the day

4:49

time since Nineteen Eighty Seven usually runs

4:51

after everyone else is finished. But this

4:53

year, Mcgillivray, age sixty nine, ran parts

4:55

of the race with his thirty year

4:57

old son Max and he finished with

5:00

his nineteen year old daughter Ellie, who

5:02

is running her first Boston. And finally

5:04

Mark. Bow Men, age seventy four from

5:06

Michigan ran his fifty fifth consecutive Boston.

5:09

Marathon. Wow. And Six O One

5:11

Twenty eight. Paddy hung a seventy

5:13

eight from California finished her thirty

5:15

eight consecutive Boston Marathon In Fi.

5:17

Sixty One. Oh Fi. Than that,

5:19

those are the people who have

5:21

run the most consecutive Boston marathons.

5:23

cel. Very impressive as. Yeah,

5:25

was a big weekend and the Paris marathon

5:27

was not that long ago as well. So

5:29

when give some quick shout out to folks

5:32

in our community and as the so you

5:34

guys what's possible. This. comes from

5:36

iraq as she says hi guys i

5:38

just got back from the absolutely amazing

5:40

weekend in paris and i finished my

5:42

first marathon and for thirty twenty seven

5:44

i can't believe that only six months

5:46

ago i couldn't even make it five

5:48

k without severe knee pain well so

5:50

many thanks to empty a coach henry

5:52

for all the supports and a super

5:54

personalize and flexible program i haven't had

5:56

puppy jogging as a type of work

5:58

out on my log as I have

6:00

two gorgeous s'moyeds to run with. Can

6:02

you get any more personalized than that?

6:05

And also congrats to Suzanne who was

6:07

there. She says, I recently ran my

6:09

fifth marathon in Paris and I'm thrilled

6:11

to share that I ran a personal

6:14

best and scored a PR of six

6:16

minutes. Thank you to MTA and coach

6:18

Kristin for your excellent guidance and training.

6:20

I felt healthy and strong at both

6:22

the start and finish line. I'm eager

6:24

and excited to see what's next. Wanna

6:27

say congrats also to Academy member, Marty

6:29

Gardner, who we had on the podcast

6:31

last year. He finished his third 100

6:34

mile ultra. He

6:36

posted in our group for members. He said, from

6:38

the guy who used to be 300 pounds and

6:41

my first 5K was over 50 minutes

6:43

long, I am now running 100 mile races. He

6:47

says, you are capable of doing hard things.

6:49

Don't stop moving forward. And

6:51

we had several Academy members and

6:53

clients at the Boston Marathon. Congrats

6:56

to Kathleen who finished Boston as

6:58

her 25th state and 30th marathon.

7:01

She says, for those trying to BQ, you

7:03

can do it. It took me five years

7:05

and my first marathon time was about two

7:07

hours slower than my BQ time. Congrats

7:10

also to Academy member, Janie Perry from

7:12

the UK. We actually got to meet

7:14

her in Tokyo and she finished the

7:16

Boston Marathon and collected her sixth star

7:18

for the Abbott World Marathon majors. Yeah,

7:21

congratulations. Also congrats to

7:23

Bob who works with MTA coach Antonio who

7:25

finished the race in 339.59. Congrats

7:29

to coaching client, Sarah, who works with coach

7:31

Chris who finished in 342.02. She

7:35

said, this was one of my toughest races

7:37

but more fun than I've ever had. Thank

7:39

you, Boston. Yeah, a lot

7:41

of people talked about how warm it got out there.

7:44

Yes. Congrats to Academy member,

7:46

Rhonda Folds, who finished her 11th

7:48

Boston Marathon as a runner

7:50

with Parkinson's disease. And congrats to Bill Drinkward

7:52

who finished in 3.10.20. He

7:55

writes, many thanks once again to MTA

7:57

coach Steve for giving me my most

7:59

challenging. training plan yet. I have not

8:01

felt this strong and vital in over 30

8:04

years and that is the

8:06

real medal I'm most grateful for. Nice.

8:09

And finally this comes from Madison she says

8:11

two and a half years ago I posted

8:13

in this group after my first marathon and

8:15

said I'd like to invest in coaching. In

8:17

preparation for New York City last fall I

8:19

began coaching with Coach Kristin. I can

8:22

see why Coach Kristin has run six

8:24

consecutive Boston's. I love this race. I

8:26

love the crowds, the course and how

8:28

Boston embraces all of the runners for

8:30

the big day. Everything felt so

8:32

special. I think I smiled through the entire

8:34

race. I managed an eight-minute PR with a

8:36

time of 3 41 16

8:40

which I'm pretty happy about. I'm already excited

8:42

to work on getting faster. Cheers to a

8:44

great Boston and hopefully getting to do it

8:46

again in the future. Love

8:48

it and just super congrats to everyone

8:50

listening who finished the Boston Marathon and

8:53

in this episode we're gonna dive deeper

8:55

into what makes this race special. Our

8:57

guest today is Mark Polina. He wrote

8:59

the book the Boston Marathon Handbook and

9:01

by the way we talked to Mark

9:03

one day after the marathon so we

9:06

were talking to him on April 16th

9:08

so he had just run Boston. Here's

9:10

our conversation with author Mark Polina. Okay

9:23

we're on the podcast now with Mark

9:25

Polina author of the book the Boston

9:27

Marathon Handbook. Mark welcome to the MTA

9:29

podcast. It is awesome to be

9:31

here Trevor and Angie it really

9:33

is an honor yeah I'm excited

9:36

to talk all things Boston no doubt. And you

9:38

were telling us that you live in the back

9:40

bay so you're not far from the course. Yeah

9:43

I'm pretty blessed that way so I we

9:46

literally live a few blocks

9:48

away from the finish line right

9:50

in the back bay and it

9:53

makes the Boston experience quite frankly

9:55

far richer because everything is just

9:58

right here. You know Boston It's

10:01

just a magical time and it brings out

10:03

the best in this city So

10:05

it's exciting to kind of take part in that no matter where you

10:07

come from But it's very special to

10:09

be here knowing Boston all year round and then

10:11

seeing it happen over the course of the week

10:13

and weekend You could rent out every

10:15

room in your house for like $900 a

10:18

night. My wife and I were talking about

10:20

that We

10:23

are in a brownstone and there's no doubt

10:26

when our Boston careers are over so to

10:28

speak and we're still here And perhaps that's

10:30

that's an opportunity there. You mentioned career. What

10:32

do you do for a living? So

10:35

I was in financial services for

10:37

years decades to be precise and

10:40

I've always been a writer So even when

10:42

I was doing that I was writing screenplays

10:44

and TV pilots I'm a creative writer and

10:46

and so I'm writing full-time now So

10:49

this book is my first a nonfiction

10:51

book, but it is very playful and

10:53

whimsical So you probably

10:55

surmise that already I was

10:58

pleasantly surprised It's very whimsical and fun and

11:00

like all the idiosyncrasies of the Boston Marathon

11:02

are in there and there's just a lot

11:04

of character This race there

11:07

is there's obviously a rich history, right? But a

11:09

lot of the books, you know, it's a good

11:11

segue into how it came about I

11:13

mean a lot of the Boston Marathon books are historical

11:15

accounts and they're written in third person So Bill Rogers

11:17

did this in 1975 and Johnny Kelly did this in

11:20

1928 and Des Linde in one of 2018 And

11:24

they're written in third person. So you're

11:26

kind of getting a good glimpse

11:29

of everything that happened in its history And then

11:31

on the other hand, you have a lot of

11:33

memoirs, right? So you have Des Linde and choosing

11:35

to run and it's written first person I did

11:37

this I did that and they're fantastic as some

11:40

of the stories are including Des is Really

11:42

fun to read but I wanted to do

11:44

something different I wanted to immerse the reader

11:46

and the runner in the race itself So

11:49

I literally as you know, I wrote the

11:51

book in second person So as you're kind

11:53

of flipping through it no matter where you

11:55

are and the book kind of pulls you

11:57

in and it's like you're Literally running the

11:59

course yourself town to town. Yeah,

12:01

I think that was really, it was really engaging

12:04

and it kept it really interesting. And you know,

12:06

I've studied a lot about the Boston Marathon over

12:08

the years, and there was still tidbits that I

12:10

learned. So it was really, it was really cool

12:12

to get that inside look at it. So before

12:15

we get any farther in this conversation and dig

12:17

into the book and your experience yesterday, tell us

12:19

how you got into running and like what attracted

12:21

you to the Boston Marathon in the first place?

12:24

Yeah, great question. So I was a

12:26

college baseball player, I played baseball my

12:28

entire life. And I wanted to

12:30

go pro. So when I was growing up,

12:32

I was on that trajectory of just getting

12:34

drafted and becoming a professional baseball player, I

12:37

had a batting cage and a pitching machine

12:39

in my backyard. And I was

12:41

lifting at four in the morning when I was

12:43

10 years old in my basement of my house

12:45

in Pennsylvania. And then when my family moved in

12:47

Naples, Florida, I could play year round and I

12:49

was on three teams at the same time. So

12:51

that was kind of my formation. And then I

12:53

graduated from college, did not get

12:56

drafted. And there I

12:58

was, I was like, what am I going

13:00

to do with all this, you know, this

13:02

energy? I need I need a distance analyst

13:04

somewhere. So I was lifting weights, and I

13:06

kept blowing out muscles and hurting myself quite

13:08

frankly. And it was it was interesting and

13:11

fun. But I was like, there's got to

13:13

be something more. So right about that time,

13:15

I moved to the Boston area. So I

13:17

actually unbeknownst to me moved to block,

13:19

we talked about blocks away from the finish line,

13:21

well, I was actually blocks away when I moved

13:24

here for the first time in 2000 from heartbreak

13:27

Hill. I had no idea

13:29

just like a polite little hill in the

13:31

community. And then one day I went over

13:33

there to watch the race. And I was

13:35

just captivated. I was watching the

13:38

lead pack go up running, you know,

13:40

445 miles floating up that hill. And

13:42

the very next day, I knew exactly

13:45

what I was going to do. I laced up my

13:47

shoes and I started running. I did not go well.

13:49

I met a quarter

13:51

mile and I was huffing and puffing.

13:53

And I was about to be about a year and

13:56

a half to get to the point where I could

13:58

run two miles at a time. And I remember it

14:00

like it was yesterday because somebody one of my friends

14:02

saw me on the street and asked me how far

14:04

I went. I said two miles and I was just

14:06

euphoric. But then I had

14:08

the idea the crazy idea of I'm gonna run the Boston

14:10

Marathon. So in 2003, I did just that as a bandit,

14:16

which as you read the book in

14:18

a culture of Boston, you know, banditning

14:20

is not good. It's for both. Don't

14:22

do it. I talk about it at

14:24

length in the book. But there

14:26

is a culture of banditting at Boston,

14:29

which makes Boston very unique. So I

14:31

bandited it. And when I finished, I was

14:33

in a lot of pain, I had it

14:35

band syndrome and all kinds of, you know,

14:37

overuse injuries, didn't know what I was doing. And

14:40

I crossed the finish line. And most people say, Hey, you

14:42

know, you have to forget the pain of your first before

14:44

you can even consider a second. No,

14:46

no, I was hooked. I was literally

14:49

in heaven when I crossed the finish line. And I

14:51

said, I'm going to come back. And I'm going to

14:53

run as a registered runner. So I did in 2004,

14:56

I ran for Mass General Hospital, which was an

14:58

amazing experience. And then I ran as a charity

15:00

runner for years and years. Then in 2008, I

15:03

ran the Hartford Marathon in Connecticut. And for

15:06

the first time qualified, which was magical. And

15:08

I've been qualifying ever since. So just

15:11

I just love running. Obviously, the Boston Marathon

15:13

with 18 or night 19 now under my

15:15

belt is special to me. And

15:17

this book is just a love letter to

15:19

Boston in this great race. So do

15:21

people still bandit these days? Yeah,

15:23

this is a touchy subject. But yeah, the answer is

15:26

yes. So it's

15:28

far more difficult. Now, back in

15:30

the day, you would have cars

15:33

literally vans cars, clown cars,

15:36

almost like children horses, people just

15:38

spilling out and bandit in Boston. It was

15:40

Wow. You know, I would say thousands, but you

15:43

know, certainly the high hundreds of bandits.

15:45

And Boston, this is what makes it

15:47

interesting. Boston has a race and the

15:49

BAA, you know, did they like that

15:51

happening? I don't think they did,

15:53

but they tolerated it. So if you were

15:56

a bandit, like I was in 2003, they

15:58

didn't kick you off the course. If you got

16:00

hurt, you can walk right into a medical tent and

16:02

get treatment. They wouldn't say, no, I'm sorry, you're a

16:05

bandit. Anything on the course is available

16:07

to you. But you know, I write in the book,

16:09

I say there are certain rules for bandits. So if

16:11

you are going to do it and you're going to

16:13

be that nefarious person, uh,

16:15

there are rules around that. You don't grab,

16:17

you know, water from somebody who's a registered

16:19

runner. You don't cross the finish line. You

16:21

don't get a medal. There's unspoken unwritten rules

16:23

around that. But anyway, so, but the answer

16:25

your question, no, you can bend

16:27

it yet, bandit, yes, but you should not do

16:30

it. It was funny. I read the

16:32

book before Trevor and so then he's reading and he's

16:34

like, he's talking about how to bandit

16:36

the marathon. And I'm like, just keep reading, just

16:38

chill. You know, yeah, it was all

16:40

like facetious. I was

16:42

reading the joke, but I hadn't got to the punch line yet. It's

16:48

really cool that you have the experience, you know, as

16:50

your first time, obviously as a bandit, then doing

16:52

it for charity for years. And then also

16:54

it was a qualified runner. So you kind

16:56

of had the gamut of the

16:58

experiences. Um, so that I think

17:00

really gives you a lot of expertise, you know,

17:03

and of course, living in the Boston area and

17:05

so much passion for this race. Um,

17:07

I mean, when did the thought like, I should write a

17:09

book about this pop into your head. That's

17:12

an interesting question because the

17:14

seed was planted when I was 14 years old. So

17:17

there was a book that came out when

17:19

I was 14. It was called the official

17:21

preppy handbook. It was a book written by

17:23

Lisa Birnbach about this culture of preppiness. You

17:25

can see the way I dress. It

17:29

was my Bible. That book was dog eared

17:31

in my backpack. I carry it around everywhere.

17:34

I still have it today on Michelle. Anyway,

17:36

you mentioned how you're dressed. You look like

17:38

you're about to get on your yacht after

17:40

this call. Very

17:46

true. Uh, I looked that way a

17:49

lot because of that book and that's

17:51

my point. So the book was just

17:53

something that again, I can't say enough.

17:55

I actually thank Lisa Birnbach in my,

17:57

um, acknowledgments within the book. You'll see.

17:59

that if you look. But um, so

18:01

I had that just that vision of

18:04

writing a handbook about something. Now,

18:06

I was 14. So I didn't know

18:08

a darn thing, right? I was 14. But

18:10

I planted the seed. And then of course, I've always

18:12

been a writer and I knew I was going to

18:14

write later in my life. And I had been writing

18:16

screenplays and TV piles. And about two and a half

18:18

years ago, I said, well, what am I going to

18:20

write next? And I had just

18:23

obviously finished all these marathons. And I sat

18:25

back and I said, I know exactly exactly

18:27

what I'm going to write. I'm

18:29

going to write the Boston Marathon handbook and I'm going to

18:31

write it in a

18:33

very tongue in cheek whimsical

18:36

but reverent style, just

18:38

like Lisa did with preppiness. And

18:41

I set out on that with that mission. The

18:43

interesting thing is it took two years all in, right?

18:46

So took me about a year to write it, editing

18:49

maybe a little bit more, and then getting

18:51

all the contributors to it. And

18:53

that's a who's who, right? So you have

18:55

legends of the sport, legends of Boston dignitaries,

18:58

luminaries, and also everyday runners all over the

19:00

world contributed plus photos and getting their permissions

19:02

took some time. And then I had to

19:04

get an agent. And then I also had

19:06

to get a publisher. So all

19:09

in two years, but it was just a

19:11

joy and absolute, you know, I can't even

19:13

tell you the fun that I had putting

19:15

the book together. And people when you get

19:17

a an email from Nathan

19:20

Ritzenheim, when you have a manuscript deadline

19:22

and you get an email from an

19:24

Olympian like Nathan, at the last second,

19:27

I was like, the hairs in the back of my

19:30

eyes just like, wow, can it get

19:32

can it be any better than that? That's so cool. So

19:34

so many stories. That's cool. And speaking

19:36

of Nathan Ritzenheim, doesn't he coach Obiri

19:39

who won? That's

19:42

how I met him last year. So Helen won

19:44

last year, right? She won this year. She's incredible.

19:47

I met him walking down Newberry Street.

19:50

He was having a coffee alone at this

19:52

nice coffee place. And I just walked right

19:54

up to him, introduced myself told him about

19:57

the book, the book wasn't But

20:00

he was like, yeah, I'd love to

20:02

contribute. Now I've had people say that and then

20:04

they just disappear on the face of the earth,

20:06

but the ones that came through and followed through

20:09

far more of them and their stories

20:11

are incredible. And David's quote in the

20:13

book, I love his quote. I love

20:15

it. He talks about the journey from

20:17

Hopkinson to Succopoli square. And he just

20:19

nails it because everybody that had to

20:21

answer the question, why is the Boston

20:23

marathon special to me had to do

20:25

in one sentence. That was the mission.

20:28

And they came through. Sometimes I had to do some editing.

20:33

They're so diverse and fun,

20:35

all of them. So, so

20:38

let's talk about some history. Boston Marathon, of

20:40

course, is the oldest marathon in the world.

20:42

Was the course different the first year, 1897?

20:46

It was. So it was actually only 24.5 miles. Uh,

20:51

it started in Ashland, which is the second

20:53

town you hit now. So it wasn't starting

20:55

in Hopkinson and they only changed the distance

20:57

because of the Olympics, I forget what year,

20:59

but they moved it to 26.2. So

21:02

they could actually run by the

21:04

King. Uh, and then that

21:06

particular distance stock. And of course it

21:08

became the norm, but, um, then that's

21:10

when they moved the start back to

21:12

Hopkinson. Uh, but yeah, so

21:15

it was, you know, it's always been an interesting

21:17

race. And the first version in 1897 only had

21:19

15 competitors, only 10 finished. So

21:23

other than the start, uh, it was still

21:25

the same course, not like going through Wellesley

21:27

and Framingham and everywhere. Pretty much.

21:29

They changed some around the, uh,

21:31

finish because, uh, when John Hancock

21:34

got on, got on board and

21:36

charities started to get involved, they

21:38

ended up changing it from Ring

21:40

Road, which is where they had

21:42

ended for years and years to

21:44

Boylston street. But the course itself,

21:46

the answer your question mimics the

21:48

course from Athens. Right. Hence that

21:50

created this Rubik's cube of a

21:52

course everybody finds difficult to actually solve

21:54

on race day. Yeah. I was wondering

21:56

too, if it's a point to point

21:58

course, how are the. runners getting out to

22:00

the start line in let's say 1899 or 1900. Yeah, it's

22:02

certainly more difficult

22:12

back then, right? So in

22:14

the research that I did, I did never I

22:17

never saw anything about specifically how they got there.

22:19

I heard a lot of stories about once they

22:21

got there, what happened and how bibs were lost

22:23

and you had to do some kind of

22:25

physical where they would take your temperature and

22:27

that type of thing. There wasn't qualifying

22:30

standards until 1970. But how they actually arrived

22:32

there in 1897 is a bit of a

22:34

mystery. But

22:37

of course, there are so few competitors. It's not like

22:39

the 30,000 that we have, you

22:41

know, today where that is a

22:44

massive undertaking. Here's a funny little

22:46

thing that you yesterday, typically you take the

22:48

bus now in the modern day, you take

22:50

you take the bus that the VA provides

22:53

and you go from literally back Bay of

22:55

Boston out to Hopkinton. And typically

22:58

it takes you depending on traffic, 50

23:00

minutes to maybe an hour. That's

23:03

usually the drill. Yesterday,

23:06

on the bus that I was on, we

23:08

drove all the way to Worcester and turned

23:10

around. So our buses,

23:12

we were multiple buses, it wasn't just our

23:14

bus, the bus was following other buses that

23:16

all went past Hopkinton. We were on the

23:18

bus for an hour and 45 minutes. This

23:21

seems to happen every year now. Yeah,

23:23

that happened to me in 2021, my

23:25

bus got lost. And we literally finally

23:27

were just like, let us off. And it

23:30

was like over a mile and a

23:32

half we had to like walk to

23:34

the start line. And

23:39

I heard stories of it happening last year, I think

23:41

so. It's like, wow. Usually you think, okay,

23:43

I get on the bus, like now I just have

23:45

to like go into my zone and like mentally prepare.

23:47

But you know, sometimes maybe you have to make sure

23:49

the bus driver knows where they're going. It

23:52

makes it all the more egregious because it's

23:54

2024. I mean, we have apps, apps

23:56

can figure that out.

23:59

Like what's going on? That's so weird. It

24:01

is. Once

24:03

you got to the start line though and started the

24:05

race, how did it go for you yesterday? You

24:08

know, it was it was looking more like

24:10

it might be sneaky hot. When I say

24:12

sneaky hot, Boston tends to be sneaky hot

24:14

for this reason. It is obviously spring in

24:17

New England. You're never quite sure what you're

24:19

going to get. We've had some horrible days

24:21

on all ends of the spectrum.

24:24

As a rule, they tend to be sneaky hot

24:26

because the trees in New England in the

24:28

spring, they don't have any foliage, right? So

24:30

there's no leaves to block the sun. And

24:32

if it is sunny and yesterday was sunny, it

24:36

just bakes you, right? And that's number one.

24:38

Number two, yesterday, it was very, we were

24:40

very fortunate as runners to have the wind

24:42

at our back. That

24:44

is a beautiful thing, right? When there's

24:46

a prevailing westerly, it's literally pushing you

24:49

into Copley Square. But

24:51

if it's slightly warm, the sun's baking

24:53

you and the wind is at your

24:55

back, you don't feel the wind. Aha.

24:58

And that creates a bit of a conundrum, right? Because then you

25:00

could have a 66 degree day, which

25:02

probably was about what it was, feel like

25:04

it's more like 80. So

25:06

I was really surprised. I mean, number one,

25:08

I didn't really hit the pain cave and

25:10

really, really feel the heat until the Newton

25:12

Hills around mile 18. And I knew

25:15

my A goal was kind of out the

25:17

window. But I saw a lot of carnage

25:19

all around me beginning in Wellesley. Wow.

25:22

People just went out thinking I'm going to PR, I'm

25:24

going to be cute, I'm going to rip it. And

25:27

then the second wave, so I was with

25:29

some runners that are in the 315, 320, 325, 330 range.

25:34

And then I heard stories of the red, the first

25:36

wave, having equal carnage, where

25:38

they just went out too fast, which

25:41

obviously Boston lulls you into doing that.

25:44

You really need mental toughness in

25:46

a way at Boston that you don't need on

25:49

a flat course. You really do. You

25:51

hit those Newton Hills, you get to the top

25:53

of heartbreak, even if you play it exactly right,

25:55

you're going to be wrecked. You are. But

25:59

if you're mentally just. locked in, you need

26:01

grit. You need to just grind it out

26:03

and I was able to grind it out and finish in 325

26:07

which was for me a 10-minute

26:09

BQ. Awesome. Is that

26:11

for next year? Yeah, so here's hoping.

26:13

You never know what the buffer is, what

26:15

you're going to need, right? So this year

26:17

you needed five minutes and 27 seconds or

26:19

something like that. And

26:22

could the BAA on a whim change

26:25

the standards? They could. So what does that

26:27

mean? I like to think that I'm

26:29

safe but I don't know for sure until it all

26:31

plays out over the course of the year. What's

26:34

the most extreme buffer that they've come

26:36

out with? Seven minutes? Yes,

26:38

that was. But the most extreme

26:41

buffer was a little over seven minutes but the

26:44

most extreme thing I think was

26:46

this year where more than 11,000 runners

26:48

didn't get in that had registered for

26:50

the race because they didn't hit that

26:53

527 or whatever it was buffer this

26:55

year. That's a lot of runners not to

26:57

make it in. Especially in contrast to the year before

26:59

where everyone who BQ'd got in. So it

27:01

was kind of like a whiplash like a

27:03

year everyone gets in to a year where

27:05

there was a lot of people left really

27:07

disappointed. Right and then a lot

27:09

of people were pointing fingers at the new

27:12

sponsor and all that kind of thing. So

27:14

there was just a just created a public

27:16

relations incident that probably the BAA wants to

27:18

see her away from I would

27:20

imagine. Well congratulations it sounds

27:22

like you played it well and

27:24

finished strong and obviously you're talking

27:27

and moving around today. So that's yeah

27:30

you're brave enough to talk to us today

27:32

afterward. Yeah but it's funny

27:34

what you know what makes it difficult is you

27:36

know Boston unlike any other marathon that I've run

27:38

and I've run New York and Chicago and races

27:41

like that it's just you know

27:43

the hoopla everything it's so all consuming when

27:45

you get in town. So even if

27:47

you're coming from out of town and

27:50

because of the size of Boston it's really

27:52

hard to escape it. So you're

27:54

at the expo you're on Newberry Street going

27:56

to the pop-up shops you're meeting with Des

27:58

Linden you're meeting with with Alexi Pappas, you

28:01

want to do all these things. And

28:03

there are so many things to do,

28:05

right? Unlike where in Chicago and New

28:07

York where, yeah, there's a race going

28:09

on, but the whole city isn't consumed

28:11

by it. So in New York City, you

28:13

can just go to, and wherever you are

28:15

in New York City, you can just go in a separate part of

28:17

the city and nobody's even talking about the race. Not

28:20

so in Boston, right? So that

28:22

tends to drain you, I think. And

28:24

then of course the race itself, some people like

28:27

sleepier marathons, which are a little bit quieter. Boston's

28:29

not a quiet race. And a lot of

28:32

that, you know, people can be overstimulated by

28:34

all of that yelling and screaming. And it

28:36

just comes, if you're in the wrong head

28:38

space for it, it can take as much

28:40

energy away from you as it can give

28:42

you. Yeah, I think

28:45

especially for introverts and maybe for people who are

28:47

not used to running a big city marathon with

28:49

that much energy, like you said on race day,

28:52

it can be draining unless you've like mentally

28:54

prepared yourself for that. Now, you know, obviously

28:56

I think an extrovert is gonna be having

28:58

the time of their life, you know, they're

29:00

gonna be swerving around. They'll have the opposite

29:03

problem. They'll be like wanting to interact with

29:05

so many people. Yeah, and if

29:07

you don't get the tangents right, to

29:09

your point, I mean, if you're high

29:11

fiveing babies and, you know, kissing lovely

29:13

girls, you're going to probably run 26.8

29:15

miles, not 26.2. Because

29:20

there aren't many turns in Boston, but it's kind

29:22

of like, you know, it's kind of like you're

29:24

in a river and the river is winding and

29:26

you need to hit those tangents

29:28

right, otherwise you're gonna run a half mile

29:31

longer than you want to. Well, I

29:33

hope you enjoyed this conversation thus far.

29:35

Quick break to thank our awesome sponsor,

29:37

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29:39

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29:41

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29:43

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29:45

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29:47

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recommend the folks at MetPro. In fact, Angie

29:56

was able to work with them in BQ,

29:58

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30:00

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30:03

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30:05

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30:07

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30:09

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31:04

Hey, thanks also to you can for supporting

31:06

the podcast. We just spoke with Emily Sisson

31:08

who was sponsored by you can Emma Bates

31:11

She was the first American woman to finish

31:13

Boston this year She's also sponsored by you

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can and there's a funny finish line photo

31:17

It's not quite at the finish line But

31:19

right after she crossed the finish line someone

31:21

handed her a beer it was

31:23

a modello Which is pretty good beer so she

31:26

has her hands up in victory There's like a

31:28

modello in one hand and a you can't edge

31:30

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31:34

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31:36

what I really like about you can is

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31:51

I drink energy plus protein between my workout

31:53

and my lifts when I start the lift

31:56

I have so much more energy and my

31:58

recovery process after that has been greatly

32:00

improved. Yeah, so it works for

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elite runners obviously but it works for everyday runners.

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We've been using it at marathons all over the

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their store anytime with

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ucan.co.mta. You

32:31

mentioned earlier how the weather can be a big

32:33

factor in Boston along with you know a very

32:35

unique course. And you spent a

32:37

lot of time in the book which I

32:39

thought was really helpful. Kind of deciphering all

32:42

of the possible weather conditions, how they played

32:44

out in various years, and how to prepare

32:46

you know not only your gear but also

32:49

like mentally for those types of things. Obviously

32:51

yesterday was a warmer year. A lot of

32:53

people from maybe northern climates have been training

32:55

in the cold and it was a

32:57

shock to their system. But talk about you know like I

33:00

mean you've done some of the really difficult years. I'm

33:02

thinking back to I think 2018 it was obviously

33:05

a very very severe on the other side of

33:07

things with the cold and you know

33:09

there have been hotter years. You feel like this

33:12

one kind of played out in the middle somewhere?

33:14

Yeah I think in the middle. So on

33:16

the hot side you know obviously the hottest

33:18

of all time was known to be the

33:20

run for the hoses in 1976.

33:22

So the gentleman Jack Foltz who wrote the forward

33:24

for the book won the 1976 run for the

33:26

hoses. It was a hundred degrees

33:29

in Hopkinton. But at the finish line

33:31

in Copley Square it was 68 degrees. So

33:33

it just kind of shows you that there

33:36

could be a huge difference between what you're

33:38

feeling in Hopkinton or Ashland or Framingham and

33:40

what you feel when you crest Heartbreak Hill.

33:42

And one of the big reasons for that

33:44

if the winds are coming from the east

33:47

which they weren't yesterday but if they

33:49

were then you're gonna get the the wind

33:51

going across the Boston Harbor and the Boston

33:53

Harbor is like 41 degrees. So

33:55

it's gonna feel cold. It's gonna feel

33:58

really cold. So In

34:00

2004 and 2012 were both over 87 degrees. It's

34:04

horrible. 2018,

34:06

there's a gentleman who actually gave it

34:08

that moniker from Outside

34:10

Magazine, perfect chaos. So

34:14

here's the thing. Of all three of us

34:16

were runners and we were living in the same place. You

34:18

were living here. And we looked

34:21

outside the window that day. You wouldn't wanna

34:23

go outside, period. You just would not because

34:26

it was raining sideways. So this was

34:28

torrential sideways rain. And it was sideways

34:30

because there were 30 mile an hour

34:32

winds that were easterly.

34:35

So they were in your face the

34:38

entire race. So you're literally

34:40

getting pelted with rain and the feels

34:42

like temperature was 28. There

34:44

was snow in Hopkinson when

34:46

I got off the bus. It

34:48

was just insane. It was anybody

34:51

that's wearing a 2018 Boston jacket and

34:54

you see them. The first thing

34:56

I say is I just, I'm so sorry. You

35:00

have all the survivors nod or handshaking. It

35:02

was horrible, but it was a built a

35:04

camaraderie among Boston runners, which is always fantastic.

35:06

And even when we were running, you'd hit

35:08

a certain stretch where the wind would just

35:11

stand you up and you couldn't even move

35:13

forward. It was just so violent and

35:15

people would just start laughing. It was really

35:17

painful and ugly and miserable, but

35:20

at points because it was just so ridiculous,

35:22

it was comical. Yeah.

35:26

What does make those kind of days comical? I wasn't a marathon

35:28

like that one time is that I paid

35:30

money to do this and I do this

35:33

for my health. Why

35:36

didn't I pick a different hobby? Exactly.

35:39

Yeah. But you know, if you

35:41

go through something like that, you do kind of have

35:43

a little PTSD from it. It rains now and it's

35:46

cold and I'm like, hmm, you

35:48

know, maybe not. Yeah.

35:52

Maybe I'll wait for a better time of day. So

35:56

I've always been a bit of a

35:58

weather stalker, you know. Yeah. and I

36:00

definitely stalk with greater vigor

36:03

nowadays after that race. When

36:07

you said you were a weather stalker, it reminded me

36:09

of there's a lexicon

36:11

of Boston marathon terminology in

36:14

chapter 12. So maybe we'll hit a few of

36:16

these. Oh, love to. You can tell

36:18

us what it is. Sure. Crop

36:21

dusting. Oh. All

36:26

right. Well, you know, I think Will Ferrell

36:28

said it best about crop dusting. It's

36:30

in the book, but he said, I'd like to apologize. He ran

36:32

the race, by the way, I think it was 2003 or 2004.

36:34

And he ran in 356, which you would not expect from

36:40

Yeah. Ferrell. I wow. He said, I'd

36:42

like to apologize in advance to

36:45

everybody running behind me. Because

36:47

crop dusting is literally, you

36:49

know, flatulating on the fly

36:52

as you're running. And then of course, it

36:54

was up and it affects everybody behind you.

36:56

And depending on the hang time, it

36:59

can affect most it can affect

37:01

hundreds of people, especially when it's

37:03

crowded. It's impolite

37:06

to do it. But sometimes you have to

37:08

and you certainly would want out of courtesy

37:10

to at least maybe get off to the

37:12

right of the road or the left, whatever,

37:14

and be a little bit more discreet about

37:16

it. But yeah,

37:18

that's crop dusting. I think we've all

37:20

run through a cloud before. Okay,

37:23

so what is, there's another one green

37:25

monster. Oh, the

37:28

green monster. Yeah. So baseball

37:30

in Boston, you know, running

37:32

takes over on marathon Monday, for sure.

37:34

It's Patriots day, the holiday. And

37:37

the Red Sox, the remainder of the year

37:39

are kind of front and center certainly in

37:41

the summer they are in the spring. And

37:43

the most famous wall kind of like we

37:45

have the most famous hill and all of

37:47

road racing. Well, they have the most famous

37:49

outfield wall, it's called the green monsters and

37:51

left field. And it's this massive, I forget

37:54

the height of it 37 feet or some

37:56

ridiculous height. But it's a short

37:58

porch. So you know, So to hit

38:00

a home run over it, you don't have to hit it

38:02

so far, you just have to hit it very high and

38:04

decently far. But it

38:07

is famous in baseball, legendary, right?

38:09

So you will actually as you get close

38:11

to mile 25 at the end of the

38:13

marathon, you if you look

38:16

to your right and you're not looking at

38:18

the sicko sign, which is going to be close to

38:20

being right above you, you will

38:23

see the backside of the green monster, which

38:25

is pretty exciting for me. As

38:27

you know, I'm a baseball guy. Okay, a couple

38:29

of other these that I didn't know. Hopper.

38:33

Oh, the hopper. Yeah,

38:35

well that okay. So most people would

38:37

say I'm putting together my race strategy.

38:40

It's in the hopper, meaning it's in

38:42

the works. I'm thinking it through. But

38:45

in Boston, in particular, the hopper or the

38:47

hopper, as they would call it here is

38:49

actually a toy. So if you're going

38:52

to say that your strategy is in the hopper, that

38:54

just means that it's basically in the wrong place. You

38:56

don't want to sit there. That's

38:59

good to know. Okay,

39:01

first to the track house. I

39:05

love this one. So tracksmith is this,

39:07

you know, running company brand and they

39:10

have their headquarters right on Newberry Street, which is

39:12

where a lot of the pop up stores are

39:14

in the back Bay. And they

39:16

have this really cool competition within the

39:18

competition of the Boston Marathon. And

39:21

what it is is you

39:23

have to when you cross the finish line, the

39:25

first person across the finish line and get to

39:27

the track house, which is probably as the

39:30

crow flies, you know, maybe three quarters of a

39:32

mile from the finish on Newberry

39:34

Street. So if you get across the finish

39:36

line end of the track house, then you

39:38

get a beer at the Elliott

39:40

bar. The Elliott bar is famous. Elliott used

39:42

to be a bar in Boston,

39:45

which was the center of the marathon universe because

39:47

Bill Rogers would go there after he won

39:49

the race and dignitaries of marathoning in general

39:51

would have anyway. So they took the Elliott

39:53

bar and they moved it to the track

39:55

house at tracksmith. So you

39:57

would get a beer at the Elliott bar.

40:00

tracksmith. You would get a robe,

40:02

your own robe, you would get a trophy

40:04

that Bobby Gibb, the very Bobby Gibb who

40:07

ran the Boston Marathon as a woman for

40:09

the first time, unregistered,

40:11

and carved

40:13

the sculpture that you would get. And

40:16

it's here's here's one more little anecdote

40:18

about that. Last year's

40:20

female winner of first the track house

40:23

cross the finish line didn't even bother

40:25

to get her medal jumped

40:27

over barricade so she could get to the track

40:29

house first and be the first to the track

40:32

house. That's crazy. That's that's a whole

40:34

new level. Yeah, I didn't even

40:37

know that that's really neat. Okay, what about

40:39

Pissa? Ah, yeah.

40:41

Okay, so Pissa is so

40:44

we New Englanders and Bostonians don't

40:46

use the word very everything's

40:48

just Pissa. So Pissa can be

40:54

like wicked Pissa. That's just wicked awesome wicked.

40:56

But you can also use it in different

40:58

ways. So you can use it as a

41:00

verb, you can use it as a noun,

41:03

you can use it as an adverb. But

41:06

like, you know, if I were

41:08

to say proposed to, you know,

41:10

my, my girlfriend at the

41:12

finish line, somebody might say

41:14

to me, can you believe

41:17

Mark proposed his girlfriend on

41:19

the and Copley square in

41:21

front of, you know, 5000

41:23

people that Pissa people on the

41:25

outside world looking in at music no

41:27

sense whatsoever. But you know, if you

41:29

hear it in the wild is kind

41:32

of I make the the analogy, it's

41:34

kind of like seeing a whale breach

41:36

on Nantucket sound, it's kind of like,

41:39

that cool to hear somebody from Boston actually utter

41:41

it. Use

41:43

it correctly. Exactly. Okay, so

41:45

one more the term mass

41:47

holes. Yeah, I

41:49

heard that term when I was in New Hampshire, because I

41:52

asked people up there, I'm like, if you're from New Hampshire,

41:54

you're in New Hampshire, right? If you're from Maine, you're a

41:56

manor. And then I asked the people up there, I'm like,

41:58

what do you call it your to the

42:00

south from Massachusetts, what are they called? And they

42:02

said, massholes. Yeah. You

42:04

know, the funniest thing about that term

42:08

is this, that we from

42:10

Massachusetts really embrace it.

42:13

We're kind of like proud of it, right? You

42:15

know, everybody looks down at us and says it

42:17

in a derogatory way. And yet,

42:19

here we are living in it. And

42:21

we're like, yeah. You know, you

42:24

got it right. You

42:26

take the thing out of it if you claim it with pride,

42:28

right? Oh my gosh. And then,

42:30

yeah, I think it all started really with the

42:34

way we drive in Massachusetts. I drive

42:36

in New York City a lot. You

42:38

have to little zany. But Massachusetts is

42:40

just an aggressiveness and a non, I

42:42

don't care. No turn signal. Or if

42:44

they do use a turn signal, it's not to

42:46

politely say, hey, I might be

42:48

going right now. They just turn the

42:50

signal on, just turn and advance and

42:52

don't care, don't even look. So

42:56

people that can come, you know, when Massachusetts

42:58

plates leave and go somewhere else and they

43:00

see the plate, they would certainly yell things

43:03

at us. And usually, that was the term

43:05

they used. I

43:07

had a question. The BAA unveiled

43:09

their medal. And their new title sponsor,

43:11

Bank of America, stamped their logo on

43:13

the medal. And there was like a

43:15

lot of negative commentary on the internet

43:17

about taking over the specialness of the

43:19

medal. I mean, what did you hear

43:21

surrounding that? Were people complaining about it?

43:23

Or were they just happy to have

43:25

finished and have a medal? OK,

43:28

a few things about that. Number

43:32

one, I really, I mean, obviously, I

43:34

honor the Boston Marathon in this book.

43:36

I also honor the BAA. I

43:38

do not envy the BAA for this

43:40

reason. They have to make everybody happy. I

43:43

worked in jobs, you mentioned what I did before

43:45

in financial services, where I was working with attorneys

43:48

inside counsel within companies, outside

43:51

counsel, section 16 officers. So

43:55

there were just multiple stakeholders, right?

43:57

Well, the BAA has town. The

44:00

deal with the the local police they've

44:02

got ah the A brand they got

44:04

a lead runners they it's so many

44:07

stakeholders rights. you're not gonna make everybody

44:09

happy but they have to make decisions

44:11

day after day after day. To.

44:14

Make everybody happy. As. Is never

44:16

going to happen with a try. And they

44:18

try and they listen. The most important thing

44:20

is to listen right? And they're listening better

44:22

and better. Ah, but let's get back to

44:24

the mouth. So the medals. I've heard a

44:26

lot of negative things about our I'll tell

44:29

you a good thing a guest and that

44:31

is the this year made them and United

44:33

States. That. Is that the getting

44:35

at is? Ah. And they also made

44:37

of recycled materials. I can't say the

44:39

that's a bad thing. Ah, now they

44:41

did this. Put their name on the

44:44

metal and the medal itself. You look

44:46

at it. Relative is I've got a

44:48

bunch of I'm now it looks. I

44:50

made the acts that comment when I

44:52

got it and I brought it home

44:54

that it looked like the Michael Scott

44:56

Dunder Mifflin Five. Oh

44:59

no, said I was. With That being

45:01

said, it's the Boston Marathon metal and

45:03

it means. So much more minutes a eunuch

45:05

one around your neck. We all covered that

45:07

amazing metal. But I think in the grand

45:10

scope of all the things about the Boston

45:12

Marathon the make it so great to complain

45:14

about that mental for these reasons that I've

45:16

heard is a little out of bounds. And

45:18

people get attached to the tradition be things

45:21

the in the same way and I don't

45:23

think a lot of races have up there

45:25

medal game significantly specially in here in the

45:27

Us. and so for boss and maybe seem

45:29

like there's is not as nice as previous

45:32

years. The and I guess that gets people

45:34

up in arms that over in Europe the metals

45:36

are not really as twenty. Come over here to.

45:40

Know that smaller and not as.

45:43

Yeah, see you found one. Yeah, throw out the

45:45

other different people have short term memory serves in

45:47

two thousand and three the metal was of a

45:49

tiny little metal with and I saw you know

45:51

corn and it was a perfectly fine metal. But.

45:54

If you look at the two thousand and Three

45:56

Boston Marathon metal relative to this year's Boston Marathon

45:58

metal, you are absolutely to. The here's metal

46:00

over the two thousand three metal get

46:02

fire occurred. As

46:06

I guess. one final question: Do you have

46:08

maybe one or two tips you can share?

46:10

For people that wanna qualify for Boston? there

46:12

may be going after their Bq? Maybe it's

46:14

taken him a while to get it. Yeah.

46:18

So yes, you can qualify for

46:20

Boston. At Boston yes can use

46:22

one of the majors in. Qualified.

46:25

Chicago to Flatter course or Berlin right.

46:27

You can also go out west and

46:30

Been Rebel race which takes you down

46:32

the side of a mountain more than

46:34

five thousand feet and qualify for the

46:37

Boston Marathon. So my advice would be

46:39

to anybody who is on the cause

46:41

you know and maybe might need five

46:44

more minutes a time or even more,

46:46

maybe ten more minutes of time to

46:48

even have a shot to. Start.

46:51

Working on some hills, especially

46:53

going downhill, And. Get out

46:55

to a Rebel race while they're still allowable.

46:57

I don't know if it's gonna change by

46:59

don't don't know, Be a can do whatever

47:02

they want right arm. But they're fair game

47:04

now so I would say find one of

47:06

those races and run down the side of

47:08

a mountain and the out that caf works

47:10

and he got one of her beak. He's

47:13

a Rebel race. Okay to yeah Yeah yeah

47:15

yeah. So am I

47:17

right? Or am I am I taking crazy? Both? Yeah,

47:19

I mean I. Would. Say on a good

47:21

day if you're insane that it, you

47:23

know. Definitely an excellent way to get

47:25

closer. Sent the kill for sale. No.

47:28

Doubt you know it. It's it's It's not

47:30

easy to run down hill either, right? You

47:32

know I can't run as fast downhill as

47:35

I used to. You know, just you can.

47:37

His new joints indistinct them handlers well so

47:39

Elsa not everything's the same right? So in

47:41

obviously a lot lot of these races because

47:44

they do go downhill or are there at

47:46

altitude and if you're not prepared for that

47:48

then I'm Yeah, that's also a challenge. But

47:50

anyway, yeah so that would be my tibia

47:53

His when I was been a piss a

47:55

conversation comes to his. Favourite.

47:59

Network. Yeah, yeah, thanks for talking to a

48:01

smart thing to the book. In a people wanna find

48:03

out more about the book and about you? where can

48:05

we send them? Yeah. Ah the best

48:07

place is Cm and obviously lot information

48:10

online or these great podcast do a

48:12

lot of help to so just googling

48:14

you know my name in the book

48:16

guy you'll find some podcast also. I'd

48:18

go ride my website I have with

48:20

com my writing hub but also you

48:22

can find the book anywhere. Books are

48:24

sold so Amazon know you're not concerned

48:26

about Jeff Bezos ruling the world one

48:28

day. I would say for sheer speed

48:30

you know you can purchase at their

48:32

Amazon if you want to support your

48:34

local bookstore but still purchase something online.

48:37

Don't go to Amazon. Go to bookshop.org

48:39

to get. They will purchase the books

48:41

through your local bookshop And odd that

48:43

is good to know. But if you

48:45

wanted something in the real world which

48:47

I would absolutely encourage you to do

48:50

that I would say just got a

48:52

local bookstore. Our. Chances are a

48:54

will be there and if it's not, their,

48:56

tell them about the book. They'll get it

48:58

specifically for you and they'll actually purchase a

49:00

few for the store itself in that way,

49:03

Everybody wins. And

49:05

on stats can be great feeling to walk into

49:07

a and see your book on the shelf. Is.

49:10

Pretty. While I'm a I, this isn't the

49:12

first the and nonfiction book that I had

49:14

a i say it's kind of like having

49:16

a baby at some point. I'm. Going

49:18

to have to let it go and live

49:21

it's life. But at this point it's just

49:23

a baby so I want to nurture his

49:25

piano out. I want people to say nice

49:27

things about it right now and when it's

49:29

often college and drinking than the I you

49:31

know that's the dollars per se. So good

49:34

right now. I care deeply. so. Yeah,

49:37

it's pretty neat, But you know if

49:39

the most important thing for me is

49:41

it's really cool to have his vehicle

49:43

to share. Many. And the

49:45

Boston Marathon the great race with other

49:47

readers and runners. Yeah, so much fun

49:50

ride on Will cigarettes on the books

49:52

In also on the run yesterday. Great

49:54

talking to you and oh I'm sure

49:56

we'll talk again Sunday. And

49:59

He Trevor. Thank you! A pleasure

50:01

and a even a little a little sore

50:03

right now. We should go away, I get

50:05

together and and do this again. I could

50:07

talk for you know about running in the

50:09

Boston Marathon for ourselves but this is fantastic.

50:23

Will have enjoyed the conversation with Mark

50:25

Polina and he by the way if

50:27

you want to get more help going

50:29

after B like sometimes it is a

50:31

multiyear project. We read a Shut Up and

50:33

Kathleen earlier that says she's working on

50:35

that go for five years and also

50:37

to view a while to qualify for

50:39

Boston. First time. It took me seven years from when

50:41

I first. Started trying and that was even

50:43

from my first marathon. Because

50:46

you don't try necessarily every race.

50:49

Exactly. It's hard to the quality and quantity at

50:51

the same time and I was in a lot

50:53

of marathons in some years. But yet

50:55

gone after Bq stiffly a big one and

50:57

or coaches know how to do it. If

50:59

we reach our we lived talk to you

51:01

more about that and you can actually jump

51:04

on a free phone call with someone on

51:06

our coaching team. Discovered a marathon training can

51:08

be.com forward/coaching the see how it works. Well.

51:10

That brings to the in this episode as

51:12

always thank you so much Been a listener

51:14

Guys are awesome! Be safe out there. Remember

51:17

have what it takes to run a marathon

51:19

and season.