0:32

I'm saying this a lot lately . Nobody's studying your marketing

0:35

content more than you are . Nobody's

0:37

going to come into my DMs and be like , but you already said

0:39

this six months ago . When

0:42

I say it again and add

0:44

the additional thoughts , reflections

0:47

, depth to it , it's like if

0:49

somebody was served by it the first time , well then

0:51

, they're going to be served by it even more this time

0:53

.

1:03

Hi friends , welcome to another episode of Make your

1:05

Business Work For You . We are back with a late

1:07

episode this week because if you

1:09

are not up to date

1:11

from my Instagram or from

1:14

my newsletter , you

1:16

might not know that last week I lost

1:18

my 14 and a half year old dog , Socrates

1:21

, who was just the sweetest and

1:23

just my baby . For

1:26

a long time I have wondered if I would be able to survive

1:29

that day , and it happened

1:31

. And as a result of that , I

1:33

changed some things up . One of those things being that

1:36

on the day that I was going to edit

1:39

and get this episode up , I decided I

1:41

needed rest more than I needed to keep the podcast

1:43

on track . So we're a little bit late this week . Now,

1:46

in addition to that , I have also

1:48

moved some things around for myself

1:50

to give myself some more space , because , when I tell

1:52

you , the grief is exhausting , oh

1:54

my God . So

1:58

, with that , Fruition Growth Network is not going to be launching

2:00

until November , and that means that the workshop

2:03

that we reference in this episode is not

2:05

actually happening in October anymore . It's going to be happening

2:07

on November 28th . I

2:09

decided to still air this episode now because

2:11

, to be honest with you , it's just a really

2:13

needed episode . I'm interviewing

2:16

Tristan Katz . Tristan uses they

2:18

and he pronouns . Tristan's one of my favorite people on the face

2:20

of the earth . If you have been

2:22

around for any period of time , then you've probably

2:24

heard episodes that we have recorded . You've

2:27

probably heard me shout them out left and right . This

2:29

particular episode came after

2:31

Tristan and I got on a call

2:33

together because I have

2:35

the privilege of being

2:38

on a Tristan

2:40

and I text each other about business stuff

2:42

constantly and

2:45

so we jumped on a call together and we were talking

2:47

about some of the things that they were going through and kind of

2:49

where their work is going , and as a result of that

2:51

call , it was like okay , like we need to

2:53

talk about this part of your work

2:55

on the podcast because

2:57

it's

3:00

just , it speaks just

3:02

spot on to

3:04

so many of the marketing struggles that I know

3:06

many of us are having right now . Also

3:09

I was at Tristan's house like

3:12

the week before we

3:14

recorded this . We were going to record it in person

3:16

while I was there visiting , but we decided we would

3:18

prefer to drink daiquiris in their backyard . So

3:20

you will hear me reference that as

3:23

well . A couple of helpful things before we get into

3:25

this episode . First of all , I'm putting links

3:27

to a couple of past podcast episodes

3:29

that Tristan and I have done together so that if

3:31

you want to hear more from Tristan , that's another

3:34

place where you can go , if you kind of like the vibe of this

3:36

conversation . Also if you go

3:38

to Apple podcasts and you just search

3:40

for Tristan Katz , I would also just say

3:42

, if you're a podcast listener , like there's someone you want

3:44

to hear more from , go to Apple podcasts and search

3:46

for the person's name and you're going to get a whole

3:49

bunch of episodes that they've been in . That's a

3:51

great way that you can hear more from Tristan

3:53

as well , or anyone else that you hear

3:55

about on the show . Also

3:57

, I am using chapter

3:59

markers . I don't know if you

4:02

use chapter markers, listener

4:04

, but there's a good chance that , whatever

4:06

player you use , there's actually

4:08

a spot now where you can

4:11

pull up markers of

4:13

like what is covered at different time

4:15

stamps . So if you found

4:18

this episode really helpful or any of the

4:20

future episodes that we do and there are specific

4:22

things that you want to come back to , it should make

4:24

it easier for you to go ahead and come

4:26

back to those . Also , you could go ahead and pull

4:28

those up ahead of time and jump to parts

4:30

of the conversation that are relevant to you , so

4:33

I just wanted to point that out because they're there

4:35

and I know that I

4:38

never use that function and

4:40

so , in case you didn't even know it was a thing

4:42

, they're there now you can go ahead and look for those

4:44

. I'm also doing extended

4:48

show notes for these episodes now , which

4:50

will become available soon

4:53

, and so you can always go to

4:55

joinfruition . com if you want

4:57

to dive into any of the resources

4:59

or links that are shared for each

5:01

of the episodes , starting with this one

5:03

, and if you are enjoying

5:06

the episodes so far and you

5:08

have not yet left a rating and review on Apple podcasts

5:10

, please , please , go ahead and do so

5:13

. It helps out a lot . One of

5:15

the long term plans for

5:17

Fruition is that we are funding

5:19

some of our programming through sponsors

5:22

, and so getting this out

5:24

to as many people as possible is a really

5:26

important thing for this show , specifically

5:29

given that we would like to use some of that

5:31

funding to subsidize support for some small business

5:33

owners . So thank you for helping us out

5:35

. Let's talk about effective , meaningful

5:38

, sustainable social media marketing

5:40

with Tristan Katz . It's

5:50

nice to see you , even though I was just in your house

5:52

.

5:53

Yes , actually , this is true , I agree

5:56

. I feel like the other you

5:58

were here , than there .

5:59

Me too, me too . So I feel like we have to rewind

6:02

in time , and a lot has happened

6:05

since this conversation , but

6:08

I don't know how many weeks ago it was . We

6:10

had a whole conversation about

6:12

your work and

6:15

about the way that you

6:17

it actually originally started as thinking

6:19

of an offer .

6:22

Actually , can I back up a minute

6:24

? Because it originally started with

6:26

me obsessively

6:29

spiraling , studying other

6:31

people's marketing and business models

6:33

and texting you about my spirals , and

6:35

you were like you want to hop on

6:37

a call and I can just ask you some questions about

6:40

what you're experiencing , and I was like , yes , thank

6:42

you .

6:42

Yes , yes , and

6:45

then that call was like a couple hours long . Yes , and

6:47

it was great fun for me anyway

6:49

. And

6:52

I feel like

6:54

initially we got on that call because you were thinking about

6:56

some kind of mentorship program kind of

6:58

thing or some kind of like . Maybe there's

7:00

like a group program in here , maybe there's a different offer

7:02

.

7:02

Yeah , I feel

7:05

like we got on the call because I was looking for the capital

7:07

A answer yet again and thought that maybe you'd

7:09

find it this time and give it to me . Surprise

7:11

. You actually did . Just

7:14

not in the way that I was hoping for or

7:16

expecting .

7:17

But this is the thing . If anybody who's

7:19

listening doesn't already know me , you

7:23

should know that I am the anti-capital

7:26

A answer person . But the

7:28

reason why is because I actually think that

7:30

, to get as close to that as possible

7:33

, there's lots of sirens happening . I'm

7:35

not sure how much of that you can hear . I don't hear it

7:37

at all . Great , to

7:41

get as close to the answer as possible

7:43

, you need to take your eye off of trying to look

7:45

for it , because

7:48

it leads you away from

7:50

your own ideas .

7:52

Yes , and I was looking for

7:54

it so hard that I thought

7:56

that I could find it by listening to somebody's

7:58

podcast episode all day long

8:00

, every day , or like studying somebody's

8:03

gross program

8:06

.

8:07

Yeah .

8:08

Yeah , and I was looking outward

8:10

to find the answer and

8:12

you helped me reorient and turn

8:14

someplace else . I don't know

8:16

what you did , but you did some witchery magic .

8:19

Yeah . So then we

8:22

discovered that

8:24

you have a whole process around

8:27

content creation that you use in

8:29

your own business , and

8:31

that also seems like it could have filled almost

8:34

a hole in your offers

8:36

.

8:37

Yes , it was something you helped

8:39

me see that I have a process that I haven't

8:41

been -- I've been teaching, but

8:44

not . I've been teaching around it . I've been teaching about

8:47

it but not teaching the process .

8:49

Yes . So

8:51

the part that I keep coming back to when I think about

8:53

this conversation is the part where you were like

8:55

, yeah

8:58

, like all that I do is I just have like

9:00

, basically this whole bank of content

9:02

and I'm just like recycling

9:04

it all the time .

9:05

Yeah .

9:06

And that's actually what I would want

9:09

to help other people do , and if

9:11

they could do that , like it would be so much more sustainable

9:13

. And I was like wait , a second , hold

9:15

on , hang on , because

9:18

we've all heard about repurposing content

9:21

and that's part of this

9:23

. But really I think that what

9:25

you are getting at is like

9:27

first you develop like a meaningful

9:29

contribution , right

9:32

, like you first get clear on like what it is that you

9:34

want to say . And in there too , there's like all

9:36

of this work that you've done around , like how do we

9:38

use marketing as almost a form of activism

9:41

? How do we market our work and

9:43

also move social

9:47

change , like through the messaging

9:49

and all of that , like how can we do all

9:51

of that at the same time ? Yeah , so it's

9:53

like that's all nested into the

9:56

process that you use for

9:58

content creation . And we were just able to kind

10:00

of get clear on it . And you

10:03

are going to be teaching a

10:05

workshop which is going to be free in

10:07

October in Fruition , kind

10:09

of around this concept , and

10:13

so I kind of thought maybe we could talk

10:15

about it , because I think

10:17

everybody listening is like okay , tell me more , because

10:19

that's what I want to do . Everyone keeps

10:21

saying that repurposing content is so easy and

10:23

I keep trying to do it and it's not doing anything

10:25

. So it's like what are the differences , you know ?

10:28

Yeah , that's such an important question because it isn't

10:30

as simple as just like go repurpose everything

10:32

. I think the point is

10:34

you have to find the

10:37

pieces of content that are your

10:39

maybe like core

10:42

messages and I'm

10:44

not just saying core messages , because it's like it's

10:46

like both . It's like , yes , your core messages

10:48

, like the things you want to say , some of the anchoring

10:50

like concepts that you teach in your

10:52

work . It's that . But it's also like looking

10:55

back to see what worked in your

10:57

marketing . So I feel like what I'm

10:59

doing when I repurpose my

11:02

content and I'm not just talking about like

11:04

trying to fill

11:06

in the missing pieces , but

11:09

like repurposing with the intention of having

11:11

something actually make a-- Like there's a difference

11:13

between like posting to fill space

11:16

because you have to say something , and

11:18

then posting because you've got something that's

11:20

really juicy and potentially going to make an impact

11:23

. And I feel like when I think about posting

11:26

somebody something that's really juicy and

11:28

actually going to reach people and make an impact , I

11:30

have to look back at what has worked

11:32

well . So what I am normally

11:35

doing is looking back for the last two

11:37

to three years at all the content I've posted

11:39

on Instagram , for example , and like

11:41

pulling out the four or five typically

11:44

carousel slides that have gone

11:47

more viral . I'm putting that in quotes because I think

11:49

viral is like kind of a garbage concept

11:51

and and really like based

11:53

on like audience size and

11:55

like a whole you know a bunch of different things like you

11:57

can go viral with you know whatever . It

11:59

doesn't have to be this big , huge

12:01

, you know mind blowing thing that happens , but

12:03

anyways .

12:05

And also nobody wants to talk about how , when you go viral

12:08

, suddenly you have to field the whole bunch of assholes

12:10

in your comments and like

12:13

deal with a whole bunch of bullshit that you never

12:15

even wanted to deal with and a bunch

12:17

of people are now looking at your shit who you don't

12:19

actually want to be engaging with and all

12:21

that .

12:21

No , yeah , no . The goal is not to go viral

12:24

. By the way , when you go viral , that's not the answer either

12:26

. Right like that and

12:28

full transparency . I feel like , in this zoom

12:30

call that you and I had for two and a half hours , part

12:33

of the conversation was me being like . But these

12:35

people on Instagram have hundreds of thousands

12:37

of followers Brooke , and why don't I

12:39

have hundreds of thousands of followers ? And if

12:41

I only did , then maybe that would be the

12:43

answer to like all of my financial stability

12:46

and business problems right , yeah . And

12:48

we know that's not the case . Like , if you

12:50

dig into it , the narrative is if you

12:52

have this many followers , you are fine

12:55

. I don't think that's what's actually happening

12:57

, and so people are engaging

12:59

with meaningful or like impactful

13:01

content , but they're not necessarily clicking

13:03

through to your website and

13:06

so , yeah , I . But that means we just need

13:08

to be putting out more . To me

13:10

. And I'm not saying more empty

13:12

shit , I'm saying more consistent

13:14

, meaningful stuff , which is why the

13:16

repurposing thing is so crucial

13:19

, because if I

13:21

create one like

13:23

solid carousel slide

13:25

post and I'm talking about like getting

13:28

really concise , not

13:31

being too wordy , like making the graphic

13:34

look like good , like

13:37

one solid carousel slide

13:39

, I think can be turned into

13:41

like fricking 20 pieces

13:43

of additional content . Yeah , and that's

13:45

the part I want to get at is like , if

13:47

you can figure out

13:49

what works and I see a lot of folks

13:51

like trying a lot of text

13:54

or like the design

13:56

is missing something , like we

13:58

have to narrow down all of these different approaches

14:01

, [Brooke Monaghan] I just like sm acked my

14:04

mic in my excitement of writing something down

14:06

.

14:08

[Tristan Katz] I'm rambling now . [Brooke Monaghan] No . So

14:10

I'm hearing you talk about what works , and

14:13

what's coming to mind for me is

14:15

something that and I'm going to link to past

14:17

podcast episodes that you and I have done right

14:20

for other podcasts

14:22

, because I think we've talked a lot about this

14:24

. But in case people are just hearing

14:26

us talk about this for the first time , or you talk about this

14:28

for the first time , one of the things that's really important

14:30

here is that you

14:32

, Tristan , are

14:34

very intentional about creating community

14:36

and having real relationships with people , and

14:38

I think that that's why you are able to look at your

14:40

stats of quote , unquote , what works

14:43

and then choose , based on what works

14:45

, what you're going to repurpose and have it not be

14:47

hollow , because for you , what works

14:49

is aligned

14:52

with what matters to you and it's aligned

14:54

with what your meaningful contribution to the field

14:57

is , because of the fact

14:59

that you've been very intentional about creating

15:01

an actual community and actual relationships with people

15:03

. So it's not just

15:05

conversion rates . [Tristan Katz]

15:07

No [Brooke Monaghan] It's people

15:09

are responded . People in my community

15:11

are responding to this in

15:14

a way where it's clear that they need

15:16

to hear this again . [Tristan

15:18

Katz] Yes . [Brooke Monaghan] And that , I

15:20

think , is like a really important , like

15:22

foundation to

15:25

understanding how

15:27

you approach this differently from

15:29

maybe other people who are just looking

15:32

at okay , well , you do this

15:34

because it works . It might

15:36

not be aligned with values

15:38

or it might not be aligned with

15:40

what the meaningful contribution to the field

15:42

is , but it works , so let's just keep doing

15:44

it . Which creates, recreates business

15:46

as usual . So I'm almost thinking

15:48

like , do we need to ? I

15:50

don't know , Tristan , right on your thing , next to you , creating

15:53

community in your

15:56

thing , because I'm like the

15:58

whole thing doesn't really actually work without that

16:00

part .

16:01

I'm just I did write it down creating

16:03

community , because I am really in inquiry

16:05

like what does it actually mean , though

16:07

, to create community on social media

16:09

? So I hear what you're saying and I'm like I'm

16:12

agreeing with you . I'm like , yes , everything you're saying

16:14

is true . I've done that , I'm putting that in quotes

16:16

, but I'm also like I only , I only follow

16:19

. I think I'm

16:21

at 700 . I keep trying

16:23

to get the number down . I think I'm following

16:25

715 people . If I'm

16:27

only following 715

16:29

people , How

16:32

am I, I'm like tell me , though ? How do people

16:34

what kind of ?

16:37

Do you see what I'm saying ?

16:38

Because I think that people are finding you

16:40

. This

16:42

is a conversation we've had before . You're

16:45

a person who I look to as an example

16:47

of okay , and this is part of what I was really

16:49

hoping to communicate

16:51

to you when we were talking about the "but why

16:54

don't I have more followers on

16:56

Instagram ? Yeah , Because you

16:58

, to me , are an example of how you can grow

17:00

your following on social media

17:03

. Not by necessarily

17:05

going viral or being

17:07

more visible on social media , but instead

17:09

by being visible in actual

17:12

like community

17:14

spaces .

17:15

I see what you're saying . Yes .

17:17

So people , I think , are finding you because

17:19

there are people who are referring

17:22

you , who have trust in you . They

17:25

were at an event or something like that , like you're

17:27

very actively engaged

17:30

with the people who I'm sure

17:32

there's a lot of people who follow you who have not

17:34

been in a space with you in person

17:36

, but I think that that's the thing

17:38

that is actually having people come

17:40

and find you . Not

17:44

necessarily the algorithm .

17:46

I hear what you're saying and I agree

17:48

with you . Yes , yeah , and sometimes

17:50

it's the algorithm , but that's

17:52

not what my main I

17:55

don't know point of connection is .

17:56

Yeah .

17:59

Yeah, thank you, that's an interesting observation

18:01

.

18:01

Yeah , and also I would be interested

18:03

. I don't know , like I don't know because you you're

18:05

the person who I look to as the person who does this

18:07

so well . So like I would be curious if

18:09

you really think about , like what does that actually mean

18:12

? Or like , why is it ? Why is it

18:14

that you , Tristan , are able to look at your

18:16

insights and go what performed

18:18

really well over the past few years , and the things

18:20

that performed well are things that you actually

18:22

want to keep repeating ?

18:24

I mean , I do want to keep repeating them , but

18:26

let me also be clear I'm thinking about

18:28

one post in particular that I've reworked

18:30

I don't know , maybe four times . And

18:33

also let me be clear that when I rework these

18:35

posts , it's in part yes

18:37

, it is in part to repurpose and put it out again

18:39

, but it's also in part to reflect

18:41

that over time , my understanding

18:43

of the thing that I'm teaching about

18:45

has changed , right , and how I talk about it

18:48

has changed , and now I have new things

18:50

I want to say about it , or a corrected

18:52

or updated understanding about it , or whatever

18:54

. And so an example is there's

18:56

a post I probably put out I'm guessing

18:59

, twice a year on women with an X

19:01

. It's not just on womxn with an X

19:03

, right , it's on the way we relate

19:05

to language , how we can be inclusive

19:07

with our language , but how we can be performative

19:09

and non-inclusive with

19:11

our language . It's a commentary

19:14

on the obsession that we have

19:16

with , like , if I could just get the word right , then

19:19

it'll mean that I'm the good person

19:21

and people come into my space and I'll be safe

19:23

, right . So it's that kind of post

19:25

. But the title

19:28

slide is focused on women with an X

19:30

and that gets people in to

19:32

the larger conversation . You know what I'm saying

19:35

. And so am I excited

19:37

to keep talking about women with an X

19:40

? No , am I

19:42

. Do I want to keep talking about it every single day ? No

19:44

, do I want to talk about it several times a year ? I

19:47

don't know . But I'm excited

19:49

to make an impact . And

19:52

it seems that people still need

19:54

to hear about inclusive language

19:56

and the way we're reinforcing , you know , the gender

19:58

binary with our language , or cis-heteronormativity

20:01

or whatever . And people are still

20:03

having a conversation about , like , what keywords do I

20:05

use in my work ? Like , how do I talk about who I

20:07

specialize in and niche down

20:09

and whatever the hell . And so , to me

20:11

, am I excited to keep talking about it ? Not necessarily

20:14

, but I know the conversation needs to keep happening

20:17

. Right , and I do want to be a part of that conversation

20:19

. So I don't know if that makes sense , but

20:22

it's not like I'm like , yeah , I can't wait to do

20:24

this again , you know .

20:26

Yeah , no , I totally get it . I

20:28

just think about like I don't

20:30

know if you've gotten , the

20:33

more that I talk to people about the ads that I get , the more

20:35

that I realize how different our experiences

20:37

are because of

20:40

the fact that the fucking algorithm

20:42

knows what we respond to better than we even

20:44

do and the way that our brains work makes it so that we

20:46

get targeted with different shit . But

20:48

I've started getting this particular flavor

20:53

of ad where

20:55

it's this really weird video

20:58

that has nothing to do with the thing that the person

21:00

is saying . So , for example , you know

21:02

that brand of that

21:04

particular flavor of video

21:08

where it's like someone like icing a cookie . Do

21:11

you know what I mean and it's like you just want to

21:13

watch it . You're just like this is satisfying

21:15

to watch . Or the hydraulic press videos

21:17

. Do you ever watch the hydraulic press videos

21:20

? [Do you know what I'm talking about ? Okay

21:22

, there's this whole series of videos . You should go on YouTube

21:24

and look it up after this . There's a whole series of

21:26

videos where people just put different things

21:28

under this press and you just watch

21:30

it smash it , and

21:33

then there's like a spin off where people

21:35

take that and then they make a side

21:37

by side of them trying to reenact

21:40

what it looked like when that thing got smashed

21:42

, and wearing different outfits that are

21:44

the color of it , and they're like contorting themselves

21:46

in a way . That is like it's hilarious . Anyways

21:50

, anyways , I have a point to all of this . [I know

21:52

you do . [There's

21:55

a certain type of company

21:57

brand person who's

22:01

literally looking at quote

22:03

unquote what works in

22:06

terms of what keeps eyes on a thing

22:08

. That's the way the algorithm works . Yes , and

22:11

they're trying to gain the algorithm . So they're looking

22:13

at oh , icing

22:15

cookies really keeps

22:17

people's attention . I'm going to put a video

22:20

of icing cookies in my ad and

22:22

then over it there's going to be captions and

22:24

voice of me talking

22:27

about some fucking software

22:29

that has nothing to do with anything

22:31

. Why ? Because it's going to keep people on

22:33

it and that's going to make it go in front of more people . Whatever

22:35

. Right ? For you . There

22:38

is something that you have done , which

22:41

makes it so that what

22:43

works in your insights is

22:45

somehow aligned with impact , and

22:48

I think that that's coming from the fact that

22:50

the people who are finding you

22:52

are finding you for quote nquote

22:55

the right reasons ?

22:57

In wonder because part of what I hear you saying

23:00

in that and I'm really appreciating what you're

23:02

saying and what you're sharing and part of what I hear

23:04

you saying is

23:06

there's people out there looking at what works

23:08

and using that information to

23:10

be manipulative in their marketing . And

23:14

I want to look at what works in my

23:16

marketing and use that to

23:19

be meaningful , right ?

24:08

RBut how often is it that you look at what works

24:10

in your marketing and you're like , oh , if

24:12

I just reworked this piece

24:15

of content or I guess

24:17

maybe an example of that would be okay

24:20

. The womn with an X cover

24:23

slide gets people through the door , so

24:26

I'm going to use that and then I'm going to

24:29

hook people

24:31

in with that and then use

24:34

the fact that I have their attention to get them to do

24:36

something else aside from making an actual contribution

24:39

in the conversation .

24:42

I mean , I guess what I want to say is , when I

24:44

look at what works , I think content

24:46

, what's been working , but also graphic design

24:48

, because I think on Instagram , as a visual platform

24:50

, the design is really important to pull people

24:52

in , and so I'm using like

24:55

, I'm focusing on the text and

24:58

the look and feel to see what

25:00

works , and

25:02

then I take that information and filter

25:05

it through what feels right for

25:07

me , like maybe

25:09

what feels right is changing

25:11

the title slide completely this time

25:14

, because I don't you know what I mean , because whatever

25:16

I've said last time doesn't feel good anymore

25:18

, or I'm tired of saying X , Y

25:20

and Z , so I have to check in with

25:22

what still feels aligned

25:25

for me in that moment , rather

25:27

than being like , well , I need to reach more people

25:29

, so I'll just think about what works and be manipulative

25:31

w information . Right, Does that make sense [Totally

25:34

. Yeah , yeah

25:36

, I really I want that's . The thing is

25:38

like . I think a lot of what

25:40

is taught in the marketing space is

25:43

super manipulative and gross

25:45

and some of it is super

25:47

valuable and we can use it skillfully

25:49

rather than manipulatively and grossly

25:51

.

25:51

Yes , yeah , yes , great

25:54

and so okay . So

25:56

, then , one of the things that we had talked

25:59

about is kind

26:02

of like what needs to happen

26:04

for you to actually even be able to approach

26:06

this in this way , like people aren't going to be able

26:08

to just like come into a conversation

26:10

about repurposing content and how to create

26:13

meaningful content without having done the

26:15

other work . Y nodding very

26:17

quickly , so just , I would like for you to

26:19

just say more .

26:20

I mean , this is what I'm thinking about . Like , how do I get folks

26:22

into what I think

26:25

are content pillars , but

26:27

not content pillars in the way that the marketing dominant

26:30

culture people talk about content pillars

26:32

. I'm not talking about , like

26:35

tips and techniques , value

26:37

posts , whatever . I'm

26:41

talking about like , okay , when I think about

26:43

my content , well , inclusive language

26:45

and like sharing power with

26:47

language and using language

26:49

as a solidarity tool

26:52

that is meaningful . That's one of my content

26:54

pillars . So , and then , like

26:56

, maybe another content pillar is I'm

26:58

laughing

27:03

is like reminding people not

27:05

to erase trans folks in the conversation

27:08

about abortion rights . You know what I mean . Like

27:10

what I'm saying , what I'm doing in my head right now is I'm thinking

27:12

back to the last three years of the content I've

27:14

put out and what has been really

27:16

popular . So it's

27:19

not necessarily like what I talk about over

27:21

and over again , though sometimes those two intersect

27:23

and overlap . I'm also thinking about what has

27:25

really made an impact in the audience

27:27

, owhatever . And so then I take those

27:30

pieces of content and for some

27:32

reason , my brain says , ideally , there are five

27:34

pillars that we work with and

27:36

those five pieces of content like , if

27:38

it's me and I'm thinking inclusive language or

27:41

trans abortion

27:43

access . Of course

27:45

, thinking about our dear S

27:47

Galante hi Steph , [hi Steph

27:49

If this doesn't get added out , I'm thinking about

27:51

Steph and like the relationship that

27:54

she talks about to self-care and

27:56

challenging systems of oppression right

27:59

and reclaiming self-care outside of capitalism and

28:01

white supremacy . Like to me , she's got

28:03

several content pillars

28:05

that relate to that theme , or maybe it's

28:07

just one , but like I can see easily

28:09

, like she's got some pillars , you've got pillars

28:12

and again , these aren't [Good

28:14

to know because I wasn't aware . No

28:16

, you definitely , and I'm like , but it's

28:18

not just like , oh , these are the five things I talk

28:20

about in my brand . It's like these are the things

28:22

that I come back to over and over again because

28:24

I know my audience needs to hear it . And

28:27

I csay it over and over again in different ways because I'm

28:29

in constant relationship to this thing and learning about

28:31

it , and so the next time I talk about it , it's going to be even

28:33

more meaningful because it's going to be more authentic

28:36

with where I'm at in my own learning or

28:38

whatever a growth , and it's going

28:40

to come across differently because I've changed

28:43

in relationship to it . You're

28:46

having a moment , yeah .

28:49

How could you tell ?

28:52

What happened ?

28:56

You saying you're

28:59

in constant relationship to it and so

29:01

things have changed , and so it's like

29:03

being able to revisit this and

29:06

add . epth is

29:08

part of what I'm hearing .

29:09

Yes , and then each time you add depth

29:11

, it's like , first of all , nobody's

29:14

going to come back and say to me I mean

29:17

, maybe somebody will someday . Tristan , you post

29:19

about this two times a year . I

29:23

always am saying this a lot lately . Nobody's

29:25

studying your marketing content more than you are . Nobody's

29:28

going to come into my DMs and be like but you already said

29:30

this six months ago . And

29:32

when I say it again

29:34

and add the additional

29:36

thoughts , reflections , depth

29:38

to it , it's like if somebody

29:40

was served by it the first time , well then , they're going to be

29:42

served by it even more this time . And

29:45

so I'm serving the same person

29:47

over and over again , even helping

29:50

them integrate this learning over

29:52

time .

29:53

Yeah , yeah , and

29:56

I've had , because I'm

29:59

even less creative than you are . I go back

30:01

into my insights and I literally share the

30:03

exact same post again . I don't even change anything about

30:05

it .

30:07

See , I don't think there's anything

30:09

wrong with that and

30:12

I think

30:14

it's going to be more effective

30:16

if we repackage it .

30:18

Right . So oftentimes what I'll do

30:20

is I'll share the same like graphic and I change

30:22

the caption that's with it . And

30:24

when I've done that , this is just

30:26

to the point of people coming and saying , oh well , you post

30:28

about this two times a year . I've done that before and had

30:30

people comment . I remember this from the first time that

30:32

you posted it . Thank you so much for reminding me . I've

30:37

had that happen several times so

30:39

people might notice and they might be like

30:41

oh right , you

30:44

know , like thank you so much for bringing that up again , because

30:46

the algorithm's

30:48

not going to .

30:50

Right , they're not going to be like and now I'm un following

30:52

you because you said this six months ago

30:54

yeah . And maybe they will , but if that's the

30:56

case , that's not somebody you need to be in relationship

30:58

with .

30:58

Yeah , so

31:01

okay . So I'm

31:03

trying to keep myself on track and also

31:06

let this go where it wants to go

31:08

, because part of what I'm hearing

31:11

in this conversation is

31:13

this parallel between

31:16

the work that you do on content

31:18

creation and marketing , the work

31:21

that you do on equity

31:23

and inclusion , the work

31:25

that I do on leading people

31:27

away from trying to find the capital A answer

31:29

. It's like

31:31

the

31:34

sigh of relief to me comes

31:36

when you realize that you can

31:38

stop focusing on doing enough , and

31:40

you can stop focusing on doing

31:42

all of the right things or going

31:45

down and being like , yep , I marketed my work

31:47

enough this time , or I

31:49

posted enough times this week , or

31:51

I'm doing the marketing the right way , when

31:54

you can take your eye off of that

31:56

and instead focus on how

31:58

are things landing with people ? What's the impact that

32:00

you're having ? How is this affecting people ? Who are you showing

32:03

up for today ? What do people actually need to hear from

32:05

you ? How are you cutting through the

32:07

noise of all of that bullshit and instead

32:09

stopping people in their tracks by having

32:11

something meaningful to say ? That

32:14

, to me , feels so

32:16

much better in my body

32:19

than being

32:21

up against how

32:24

to do social media the right way

32:26

and get people's attention and

32:29

keep up .

32:36

I don't know why, it's easy for

32:38

me . First of all , I just want to name that

32:40

. I find social media marketing

32:42

to be pretty easy for me

32:45

. I know that's not everybody's experience

32:48

, but I think part

32:51

of the reason it's easy is because I

32:53

kind of get out of my own way a little . I

32:55

just think , instead of thinking I've

32:58

got to create this perfect thing or I've

33:00

got to market this this many yes

33:02

, I do come up with a loose plan for when I'm marketing

33:04

something , but then I kind of throw the plan out the window

33:06

and have to really go moment to moment

33:09

. I don't have it in me to be on Instagram today

33:11

, so this launch is not going to be what I thought

33:13

it was going to be . Oh well , hopefully

33:15

it works , hope I don't have to cancel the thing

33:17

. By the way , all the time

33:19

I have to cancel the thing . So , like you

33:21

know , life happens . But part

33:24

of the reason I think it's easy

33:26

for me is because I

33:29

have worked so hard

33:31

to try different things

33:34

and in trying different

33:36

things over several years

33:38

, I have learned this

33:40

thing , or I've noticed like

33:42

this thing works , this thing doesn't

33:45

, or I've been able

33:47

to hear too like yes , I thought I

33:49

should talk about X , Y and Z in marketing this offer

33:51

, this , this product , this whatever . But

33:54

I'm hearing from clients or people right

33:56

now that they're talking about this thing instead

33:58

, so I'm going to speak to that thing instead because

34:01

it does still feel aligned right , and

34:03

I think that's . It's like holding it all really loosely

34:06

, like yes , I have a plan , yes , I know I

34:08

need to post this many times a week , but like I'm

34:10

just going to hold it all loosely and see what comes through

34:12

. And part of that is looking back and

34:14

saying like , okay , if I'm marketing this particular

34:16

program , what kind of content

34:19

have I made over the last three years that can be

34:21

repurposed to meet to talk about

34:23

this program and how can I repackage

34:25

it in a way that really pulls people in for

34:27

this particular moment, right ?

34:29

yeah , yeah

34:32

. One of the questions that I ask people

34:34

, especially

34:36

people who I'm just starting to

34:38

work with , like in the very , very early days of working

34:40

together , is I

34:43

don't actually ask them actually a ton of questions

34:45

to get to this which is what do

34:47

you want to hold firmly and what do you want

34:49

to hold loosely ? And

34:52

what I'm hearing in this is you're

34:54

holding really firmly the idea

34:56

of having an impact

34:59

and moving

35:04

certain ideas forward and making a meaningful

35:06

contribution , and then you're holding

35:09

really loosely the

35:11

way that you do that , or how

35:13

to experiment with that on social media

35:15

or otherwise , to move that forward

35:17

. That's the experimental thing . But the

35:19

reason that you're able to do this in a way that

35:21

is like effective

35:24

and also meaningful and also

35:26

, like you know , the reason that you're able to do that

35:29

, I think is because of the fact that , like at

35:31

no point have I ever I've known you for

35:33

I think like three years at this point and like literally

35:35

at no point have I ever seen you put out

35:37

a hollow post , because

35:41

it's just like not what you do .

35:43

No , if I want to do like a filler

35:46

post and by that I mean I'm like should I need

35:48

to post something about this workshop ? What should I say

35:50

? I want to make it meaningful , I don't want to just make it

35:52

, you know , empty then I'm

35:54

going to pull one meaningful

35:56

sentence out of something I've written

35:58

in the past and that sentence goes on a canva

36:01

graphic . So there's still substance

36:03

, right ? Yeah , and part

36:05

of this is because I learned really , really early

36:08

on that you can't just post the marketing , the straightforward

36:11

marketing asset , like you can't just post the

36:13

workshop flyer , you can't just post the

36:15

podcast graphic . You have to provide

36:17

value if you're going to reach people , in

36:20

part because I think a lot of us are like

36:22

stop trying to sell me . Like Instagram

36:25

has become like just like sell

36:27

, sell , sell , pitch , pitch , pitch , pitch

36:29

, pitch , pitch . Sometimes I'm on Instagram and I'm like who

36:31

else is even using this app other than

36:34

like businesses and entrepreneurs ? You

36:36

know ? So how do you show

36:38

that you're not just there to sell people

36:40

? Because , yes , sure , you might

36:42

be using Instagram for your online business , which

36:44

means you need to make money , which means you need

36:46

to sell things . And I

36:49

think the orientation for me isn't

36:51

the selling , it's the awareness

36:53

raising . It's awareness raising

36:55

about the conversation I'm having and it's awareness

36:58

raising about my own work , which is a

37:00

part of that conversation , which is like you

37:02

know , and when I approach it as awareness raising

37:05

, it completely , yeah

37:07

, nothing is just empty and meaningless anymore

37:10

. Right , my whole , my whole account is

37:12

about awareness raising on some level and

37:14

to me , that is going to make a meaningful

37:16

impact . And when people

37:18

think , oh , I want to work with someone

37:21

who knows marketing from this lens or who

37:23

teaches , like they'll remember me because I've

37:25

been in their space , right,

37:28

in a way that isn't just about buy from

37:30

me , buy from me , buy from me , buy from me . That is

37:32

not going to work .

37:33

Right , right , yeah

37:37

, and the way that you have . You know , I think

37:39

back on , and I

37:41

say I think back on because I no longer think

37:43

about this shit anymore . But you know the marketing

37:45

basics that you learn when you're like just starting

37:48

out , and it's like people need to know , like and trust you .

37:50

[Tristan Katz] know like and trust I fucking hate

37:52

that shit . Yeah

37:54

, it does . If you aim for kno like and trust

37:57

, it's gross . [And

38:01

I do think it's true that people

38:03

need to know , like and trust you , but the way

38:05

that people actually know , like and trust

38:07

you , ristan , is because

38:09

of the fact that you have approached things not by

38:11

trying to get people to know , like and trust you , but

38:14

by doing meaningful work .

38:17

Yeah , that's the thing is like and I know

38:19

I feel like you and I have talked about this before on a previous

38:22

episode that we recorded . [Let's

38:24

sagain . it again yeah , I

38:27

really think that the no-light and trust factor

38:29

, which is like marketing 101

38:32

, is gross . We've said that like

38:34

four times now and

38:37

it's also . It exists

38:39

as a marketing 101 teaching for

38:41

a reason . Yes , I dthink we

38:43

need to cultivate I'm putting this in quotes

38:45

the no-light and trust factor . I just

38:48

want to see us do it from a place of

38:50

genuineness and authenticity

38:52

and like meaningfulness , and

38:54

not from manipulation

38:56

or performance

38:58

. And I want to be clear I think

39:00

a lot of what we do , if not all of what we do on social

39:03

media on some level is a performance

39:05

. But are we doing it for performance

39:07

sake or are we doing it because it's genuine

39:10

? And then that mitigates

39:12

the grossness of the performance . But

39:15

I'm thinking of some of these like larger IG

39:18

growth people with like huge accounts

39:20

, who talk about no-ligh and trust

39:23

and who are very much performing

39:25

, and you can feel it Like

39:27

I feel like I don't know this person but

39:29

like I think I'm supposed to like and trust

39:32

them because , look , they've got the receipts to show

39:34

that , like their clients make more X , Y

39:36

and Z right ? Well , I'm not , yeah

39:38

.

39:39

I'm no Or they have figured something out that

39:41

I haven't figured out and they're making it look like

39:43

things are really easy for them

39:45

, or they've kind of found the like

39:48

magical key to whatever . So I

39:50

need access to them so that I can get it too , because

39:53

this sucks .

39:55

Yeah , but let me tell you because I'm still

39:57

I've got like two people in my head right

39:59

now who I'm still pedestalizing

40:01

them , thinking they figured it out this online business

40:03

thing and this Instagram thing . And

40:06

I know now because I

40:08

paid a small amount of money to get into

40:10

one of these spaces with them to see what it was

40:12

like and the money was

40:14

worth it for me to know , oh

40:16

, this is gross . It's like , yes

40:18

, I can look at this person's marketing , their sale

40:20

pages , their email , the sequence

40:23

, the whole thing and be like , wow , they really

40:25

got their shit figured out . I should look at this person

40:27

, I should study with this person , I should figure out what this person

40:29

is doing . But then I paid 90 bucks

40:31

to get into one of their challenges and it was . It

40:33

was gross . It felt totally gross . Am

40:36

I going to use some of the stuff they offered in the challenge

40:38

? Maybe , but I mostly

40:40

just paid to be like what's actually

40:42

happening there and in that r

40:45

.

40:45

Confirmation . Yea Yeah , it's

40:47

kind of like how I paid a lot more than that to get a leadership

40:50

coaching certification , which

40:53

I put off for so long because I was like

40:55

these coaching certification programs

40:58

feel so gross to me . But

41:00

what if there is something in there that

41:02

I don't know I'm being irresponsible because

41:04

I don't know ? Okay , you know what . I have the money

41:06

, I'm just going to do it . I did it . I

41:08

came out the other side and I was like you know what

41:10

? It actually is kind of cool to have some of these PDFs

41:12

to rely on .

41:15

ESometimes you just pay to get the PDF

41:17

.

41:17

Yeah , I know , oh , I actually

41:19

do have a tool that I paid an exorbitant

41:22

amount of money for the rights to use

41:24

, but also the confidence

41:27

walking away of being like , oh

41:29

my gosh , I can trust myself because I actually

41:31

already knew all of this stuff and actually there's

41:33

some things that they say to do that I know from

41:35

my experience, I'm never doing . Yes

41:37

, I trust myself more because of that , yeah . So

41:39

, yes , I

41:42

have a question about sustainable

41:45

social media , because this is something

41:47

that you talke about a lot and

41:49

the repurposing is definitely

41:51

something that allows

41:55

it to feel more sustainable , and I

41:57

think people talk a lot about repurposing

41:59

as like kind of this golden ticket

42:02

to s sustainable social media . I'm

42:04

curious for you One

42:07

of the things that I find makes the

42:10

way that people market themselves unsustainable

42:13

is that sometimes

42:16

people will do things simply

42:18

because of the fact that they've been promised it

42:20

would work , and

42:22

put themselves through doing

42:25

it not because it feels good for them , not

42:28

because they understand that it's going to make an impact , not

42:30

because it's tied to some deeper

42:32

purpose , but because that's

42:34

what they were told they needed to do . And

42:36

then , when it doesn't work , it's incredibly

42:39

discouraging because they just put themselves

42:41

through all of that which was supposed to promise

42:43

something and which promised something

42:45

and they don't get it . And then it's like well , what the fuck ? Part

42:48

of what I'm hearing from you is

42:51

that , even if , in

42:53

the way that you market and in the way that you teach

42:55

marketing and content marketing , even

42:58

if the content doesn't sell

43:01

a thing or you don't hit a goal that you wanted

43:03

to hit , if it's tied to

43:05

some deeper reason , if it's tied

43:07

to making an impact , then

43:10

it doesn't feel as

43:12

draining

43:14

when it doesn't work , because you

43:17

still put something out there that was

43:19

meaningful for you to say .

43:21

Yes , and so I think and this is

43:23

something I'm trying to

43:25

speak to more of and I'm not quite sure how

43:27

to do it yet but just

43:30

to say that it's not like

43:32

I put out a post and then the registrations

43:34

just come flying in . You know what

43:36

I mean . It's not even a one-to-one

43:38

. It's not like one post , one sign

43:40

up . It's some weird

43:42

other alternative , like

43:44

you can't map it type equation

43:47

, right . And so to me putting

43:50

out the post to move registrations

43:52

forward for a particular training or

43:54

something it's like yes , I am putting

43:57

out the post because I'm in this marketing

43:59

timeline and I need to draw awareness

44:01

to this particular training , but I'm also

44:03

just putting out the post for it to exist

44:05

on my profile or for

44:07

it to exist in the world , and

44:10

to me , if it's more meaningful or

44:13

valuable , then it's going to get shared

44:15

more right or saved more , and

44:17

that's especially the sharing could

44:20

lead to more registrations or

44:22

awareness of my work . But I'm not

44:24

waiting . I did have a time

44:26

and there was a time , I actually think

44:28

maybe in early COVID in 2020

44:30

where you put it , I put out a post and

44:32

the registrations would come in . I remember I

44:35

released an e-book in 2020 and

44:37

people bought it like immediately right

44:39

. Yeah , we're at a different point now in 2023

44:42

. And I don't see

44:44

it being like it was in early 2020 with

44:47

, like this , like thirst for online

44:49

programs or thirst for online resources

44:51

. We're at a different place we're , like , oversaturated

44:53

and tired and we want to be in person

44:56

as much as we can those of us who have access to do

44:58

so and

45:00

so it's just the market has changed , right , like the

45:02

way we engage with stuff

45:04

has changed , and to me , that means that actually

45:07

it's my job , like

45:09

literally to put even

45:11

more value

45:14

into what I share and

45:17

to make what I share actually mean

45:19

something . Did

45:22

that speak to what you were saying ? Because I

45:24

feel like I got off topic a little . Okay .

45:26

Yeah , totally did . And it's something

45:29

that I think is like like

45:34

for people who are listening if

45:36

you've been doing what you're doing for a long time and

45:38

you feel like the things that you used

45:40

to do , that used to work , aren't working anymore

45:44

, that is that . That is yeah

45:46

, that's the way that it is right now .

45:48

Yeah , and this is part of why I

45:50

started like looking for the answer again

45:52

. Right , yeah , because I was like something's not working

45:54

. It's not just that I've taken an exorbitant

45:56

amount of time off this year . It's like , for

46:00

example , I'm teaching a sustainable

46:03

social media training . Three years

46:05

ago , maybe even two years ago , you put those three

46:08

words on a graphic and put that on Instagram

46:10

and I bet people would have signed up immediately . Right ? Sustainable

46:12

social media ? Yes , and I thought that that

46:15

would be the case right now . Doesn't

46:17

everybody want to talk about sustainable social media ? Aren't

46:19

people going to be clamoring to get into this program ? I'm

46:21

not seeing that . It doesn't mean it's not

46:23

needed . I'm just I have to check

46:25

myself . It's a different landscape , it's

46:27

a different time . So that was part of why you

46:30

and I got on the call , too was because I was like

46:32

what am I missing ? Like am

46:35

I not leveraging my relationships or my

46:37

existing network ? Like should I be

46:39

marketing things in this way ? People are

46:41

like maybe I need to be on YouTube . Like

46:43

the moment has changed , and so a lot of us

46:45

are still trying to figure out , like , how do

46:47

we make it work in this new moment

46:49

when , to your point , what worked three years

46:51

ago is no longer working , and I

46:54

don't think it's as simple as well,

46:56

Instagram is done or like

46:59

that doesn't work anymore . Or you

47:02

know , build a sales funnel and work on

47:04

your newsletter list , like I think it's some

47:07

mysterious combination of

47:10

both , like trying lots of different

47:12

things and holding

47:14

it all really loosely . Yeah , I'm

47:16

also just thinking about like you

47:20

know . Part of what I was thinking

47:22

was you know , I

47:24

don't have like a sales funnel set up , and

47:27

sometimes I subscribe

47:30

to people's newsletters just to see how

47:32

they use their newsletter marketing

47:34

and I can see , for

47:36

example , I'm watching somebody promote

47:38

a particular like intensive

47:41

, and I got an email almost every day

47:43

for a whole week from this person as

47:45

they were promoting it , and I was like , huh , this

47:48

is working for them , though . This is a tried

47:50

and true model . They keep doing it . They keep saying they

47:52

keep these emails are like scheduled way

47:54

in advance , like I can , I can tell you know

47:56

, and so I'm like they

47:58

figured it out . They figured out to sell this intensive

48:01

, they need to send this many emails and they need to post

48:03

this many times , or whatever the hell it is . I don't

48:05

know . It's working and I

48:07

don't want to spend time on sales funnels .

48:10

Yeah . Well . Also , though

48:12

, what's so interesting about that is that that

48:14

kind of gets into this thing that

48:16

happens in the business development

48:19

space , where the

48:21

perception is , oh

48:24

, this is working and so I should

48:26

trust this person . But how much of it is

48:28

working just because you have the perception

48:30

that things are working ?

48:32

And this is the other thing that I loved and I know I'm being

48:34

a little mysterious because I'm talking about online

48:36

coaches and not naming anybody . Happy

48:39

to name everybody that I'm thinking of , but

48:44

the one person I'm thinking of right now the

48:46

perception is it's working . And then

48:48

they posted in their stories a

48:51

photo of the Zoom room after the

48:53

intensive started , and so I could see how many

48:55

people showed up live to that first session , and

48:58

it was a small group . So it

49:00

wasn't like the Zoom room was 50 people

49:02

, 25 people . It wasn't a full Zoom

49:04

screen and so is

49:06

it working ? And then immediately in my head I

49:08

was like , ok , so they sold let's just say

49:11

this many spots , and I know the rate for the program

49:13

. How much money is that ? Ok , if they

49:15

do that two times a year . I was like , oh , it

49:17

is working , but it's not working in

49:19

the way my brain says . They probably have

49:21

so many people in that program . My brain says

49:23

, oh , and this email funnel that they've created , the sales

49:26

funnel that they've created , they're

49:28

nailing it , they're knocking it out of the park . They've

49:30

got 10 people in the Zoom room .

49:31

But also . Ok , so let's

49:33

say there were 50 people

49:35

in the Zoom room . If the

49:39

additional 40 that

49:42

we're imagining joins because

49:44

they had a perception

49:47

that things were working , that's

49:49

not going to replicate to other types of businesses

49:52

. It might replicate

49:54

if you are selling stuff about

49:56

marketing or if you're selling stuff about business

49:58

development and you're trying to build trust , as I

50:00

am a person , but if you are

50:03

a health coach , if you're

50:05

a yoga teacher , if you're a , that's

50:07

not going to replicate because no one gives

50:09

a fuck about your sales funnel .

50:11

No .

50:12

So if you're there to learn a

50:14

skill that you can take and apply to a different

50:16

type of business , it's just something to be really aware

50:18

of and it's entirely

50:21

possible that it could be working for them

50:23

, and it's working for a reason

50:25

that is

50:29

not going to replicate in your business .

50:31

Yeah , and the other thing I want to say on this topic

50:33

is that my

50:35

brain wants to say working

50:38

means this many numbers , this many people

50:40

, this much money . And I would

50:42

like to challenge that thought process

50:45

. Because to me , three people

50:47

might be it's working

50:49

. And I'm thinking a conversation

50:51

that I've had with somebody in your

50:54

spaces who said to me well , I've

50:56

only gotten five students in this program that I've

50:58

been marketing for a really long time and I was like that's

51:00

a success , like

51:02

five people consistently , they're

51:04

coming consistently . That is completely

51:07

a success . Is it the goal financially

51:10

that you had for the program ? No , but it's a different

51:12

kind of success , because we're not like

51:14

it's not going to be like this is the program . This

51:16

is the answer again , I think

51:18

and this is one thing that I'm constantly learning

51:21

through you is

51:23

how do we diversify

51:25

our offerings ? Not because

51:27

it's the right thing to do , but because

51:29

, or rather it's

51:31

what you should do as a business owner . It's like

51:33

how do we diversify our offerings to make our work

51:35

accessible for people with where

51:37

they're it's more

51:40

oriented towards , like I want to serve

51:42

you and I know you've got this

51:44

much money and you've got this much money and you want

51:46

somebody to hold your hand , but you want somebody to

51:48

do it for you , and so I'm going to create all these

51:50

different pathways to make my work accessible , so

51:52

more people can access it .

51:53

Right , yeah , yeah

51:56

, I'm realizing . I'm remembering the thing

51:58

that I was going to say before , when we were

52:00

talking about how things used to work

52:02

in 2020 that don't work now . The

52:04

story that I always tell myself just in case anyone

52:06

who's listening tells themselves the story , too is

52:09

that it's because of my inner landscape

52:11

at the time . I was so motivated

52:14

and I was so into

52:16

my work and I was so

52:19

fiery and was just writing

52:21

in a way that was so resonant , and I need to figure

52:23

out how to get myself there again and

52:25

not just be who I am now .

52:28

Right , because now you're not motivated or

52:30

engaged in your work , or fiery , no

52:32

fire . I see you having zero fire

52:34

.

52:36

Thanks , thanks for the reminder

52:38

. Yeah , and I know that people

52:40

tell themselves that , like a lot of it , it's

52:42

like because of the

52:44

fucking prosperity

52:47

gospel and shit about

52:49

if you just figure out how to

52:52

align yourself in

52:54

such a way , then things

52:56

are just going to click for you . And so if things aren't working

52:58

now , but they were working before and well

53:00

, of course things felt good when they were working , but

53:03

it's so easy to tell yourself the story that it was

53:05

because you got yourself to feel a certain way that things

53:07

started working , and then it's just yeah .

53:09

I mean , I've got the . It was working in 2020

53:11

and 2021 because I was overworking

53:14

. [Brooke Monaghan] I know [Tristan Katz] Right , so

53:16

like that wasn't working,

53:18

though , right ? Like sure , the business

53:20

was working , but I was overworking

53:23

, so that wasn't working .

53:25

Yeah , yeah . So

53:30

you are going to be teaching workshop

53:32

on this topic . It is going to be free

53:34

in Fruition , so

53:36

anybody who wants to come can come , and

53:38

you're going to be going deeper into this and

53:41

providing support for people who want to

53:43

start approaching their content in this way , and

53:45

so this is everybody's invitation . Is

53:48

there anything more that you want to say about that , or

53:50

anything that we didn't talk about that you want to leave people with ?

53:53

I'll just say that I think what I'm going to plan

53:55

for that workshop is offering a taste

53:57

of this framework that I am developing

53:59

, that Brooke has kind of literally

54:02

coached me into understanding that I'm

54:04

developing it and

54:07

I want to bring in a glimpse of the framework

54:09

and make it accessible for folks to play with

54:11

and get some feedback on it too , because

54:14

I also really want to teach it so

54:16

that it meets people where they're at Like

54:18

for people who are natural writers , for people who

54:20

are not natural writers , because , unfortunately , that's

54:23

a skill you need in content

54:25

marketing . Anyways , this is what I want to bring

54:27

into that space , and I've never taught

54:29

it before . I've taught again , I've taught behind

54:32

it , I've taught around it , but I've never

54:34

taught an actual . This

54:37

is the outline , these are the actions

54:39

, this is what it could look like and this is how it'll

54:41

serve you . And so

54:43

, yeah , people will get a glimpse of

54:45

it in that .

54:46

Yeah , and what I'm hearing in that too , which I think

54:48

is really exciting , is that

54:51

if you've been to workshops

54:53

that are focused on here's how to create

54:56

content, effective

54:58

content and you felt like you were left with a framework

55:01

that didn't actually meet you , there's

55:03

space for discussion around that

55:05

and for flexibility

55:08

. It's not a here's what you're

55:10

supposed to do , good luck if you can't figure

55:12

it out , then that's not going to be that

55:14

.

55:15

No , because I'm thinking about myself . Writing

55:18

comes easily to me , so

55:21

I can write the five core

55:24

pieces of content that then get repurposed

55:26

throughout the year . I can do that probably in a weekend

55:28

, but I'm thinking about folks who writing

55:30

doesn't come easily , for whatever reason . Are

55:32

you dyslexic ? Is writing

55:34

not your jam ? How do I serve you ? I

55:37

want to serve you too , and so

55:39

I am . It's

55:41

cooking in my brain , but I think

55:43

I can find a way in to helping

55:45

folks who don't want to write still

55:48

create something meaningful .

55:50

You got a glimpse of what it's like to

55:52

talk to a dyslexic person about Instagram

55:54

feeds when I was at your house .

55:56

This is what I mean . I do think about you and how you really your

55:58

experience on the app now that I understand

56:00

it better , yeah .

56:01

The slide starts with this and I was like

56:04

but what does it look like ? What size is the font

56:06

? And you're like I think it's like a 12 point

56:08

font and I was like , no , no , no , I need to know

56:10

, like , what it looks like so I can find

56:12

out the point .

56:16

Like why do you need to know the font size ? How does that help your dyslexia ? I

56:20

don't understand that's

56:22

so good .

56:24

Oh , Tristan , this is so fun . [Tristan Katz] Likewise

56:26

. [Brooke Monaghan] Okay , I'm going to stop recording

56:29

unless you have anything else you want to talk

56:31

about .