0:11

All

0:11

I can pick up for tag light is

0:13

none other than

0:26

to the That

0:28

would never take you out of where you're comfortable and

0:31

make you feel bad about yourself. Where

0:35

are nice like

0:38

this. If

0:40

you join our patriarch, your bonus

0:42

episode will be our annual.

0:46

Griffey award, where we are

0:48

giving a awards the vest

0:51

and mostly worst of Health and

0:53

Wellness in 2021 Gwyneth gets

0:55

involved.

0:56

Nikki manager's cousins Balls get involved

0:59

series of romp of a time. Today

1:02

we are talking about it and then and the.

1:04

They're going to the whole thing against Ah,

1:08

we are talking about psyche of Mike, tell

1:10

me what you know about that camp's a very

1:13

low.

1:13

Actually. A couple years ago, I

1:15

had an idea to do an article on

1:18

fat camp, the idea was going to go

1:20

to a fat camp and lives there

1:22

fun, but. Once I started reaching out to fat camps,

1:25

perhaps unsurprisingly, they like didn't want me

1:27

to go, nobody would acquiesce to having

1:29

as random journalists going, they're asking

1:31

kids questions and next. Doing archery

1:34

since. He didn't get very far. It

1:37

always seemed like a huge tragedy to me

1:39

because when you hear the phrase

1:41

"fat camps", you think of something

1:43

like normal summer camp,

1:45

but like with that kids like place where

1:47

they can feel comfortable with themselves, we know. Oh,

1:50

that weight is the number one reason that kids

1:52

are bullied business of the idea

1:54

of somewhere that as.

1:55

We hope to heal that a little

1:57

bit and form community. The and.

2:00

Read them: solidarity between fat people always seem

2:02

like something that has the potential to

2:04

be really lovely, my problem is,

2:06

is it there? That camp that camps

2:08

of fact.

2:09

Yeah, weight loss camp, their boot camp for

2:11

children, yeah, ah, what is your experience

2:14

I don't have United Soccer about this, went to a fat

2:16

camp shut off? So I went to

2:18

a fat camp that was day. Camp so as not

2:21

to sleep away camp which means that I was spared

2:23

a lot of the worst of it and we will talk about

2:25

some of the worst of as I.

2:28

went when i was in grade

2:31

school in He

2:33

was a fucking shame. Factory,

2:36

oh yeah, when I was researching the book, tracked

2:38

down the workbook from the sack camp that went

2:40

to see they would read about it. The

2:43

work was the had all of these

2:45

store. These in it, which were mostly just

2:47

like. Where are the sad

2:49

girl gets teased at school

2:51

for being fat? Then and

2:53

she have a conversation with magical

2:56

cookie jar.

2:57

Then. Magical Cookie Jar tells her

2:59

that she needs to just stop eating as much

3:02

as she needs to lose some weight and then other

3:04

kids will ease up on her, oh, no.

3:06

So it was like, "overwhelmingly, they

3:08

were stories about, since the call solutions

3:11

to social problems rate, the problem was

3:13

never like you need our up around

3:15

the tree better you need" To get an adult and var

3:18

it was always like that will stop when you

3:20

lose weight that cookie jar now has an Instagram

3:22

account since out of,

3:25

hashtag stop it. And part of

3:28

why it's I would be interesting to talk about Fat Camp says

3:30

it does feel very illustrative. when

3:33

we allow bullying

3:35

Oh yeah, right, like, when are we willing to

3:37

excuse bullying? The children,

3:40

it's bad in less than. deserve it yeah

3:42

I guess my understanding of the general

3:44

idea is just select and because

3:46

there is this belief that you and have

3:49

talked about extensively that is pretty well

3:51

debunked that like wheat.

3:53

is entirely within an individual's

3:55

control and me sort of extrapolate

3:58

that and apply it to children Yeah,

4:00

and extends the same kind

4:02

of. [Logic] Of this sort of idea

4:04

of an adult responsibility to maintain

4:06

your weight, then gets projected on six

4:09

kids, which is super fucked up because kids

4:11

are not responsible for anything

4:14

the. Never thought of their parent's incomes are not responsible

4:16

for their parents educate.

4:17

The and or food choices they're not responsible

4:19

for their school lunches, yes, and the flipside

4:22

of.

4:22

Is. That people will also talk about this is that

4:24

people project that onto parents as well

4:26

and be like will go down and it's the parent's

4:28

individual responsibility that also

4:30

not great. A lot of bad moralizing

4:33

around parenting sovereign from extremely

4:35

limited information.

4:37

Yeah, he'll what they like, I saw a mom

4:39

at the grocery store she was by and soda for her kids.

4:42

The like, okay, well, that's literally the.

4:44

Then. Only thing that you know about that person so yes

4:46

there were so many dead ends a,

4:48

fitness research and content

4:51

wise oh it's, just

4:54

I'm thinking of the biggest. Content note:

4:56

Yeah, imagine for himself, so

4:58

wouldn't be talking about calorie counts and waves today

5:01

kind of can't talk about fat camp without

5:03

talking about those things so take care of. Those are gonna be

5:05

hard for you, here there will also

5:07

be couple of mentions of. sexual assaults

5:10

we are talking about some

5:12

pretty distressing treatment of children

5:15

Throughout this episode, so has up there, I think

5:17

generally pretty nice

5:19

toss when it comes to this stuff. Like.

5:21

said of live in it a lot and,

5:24

I absolutely had to takes a break to

5:26

cry really yes this when

5:28

I was like, oh, my God everything feels

5:30

horrible. It's been awhile since we got

5:32

back to our roots it's straight up telling people

5:34

not to listen to the rest of the show, would

5:37

back to his classes for. The turn

5:40

off your podcast, at me that

5:45

we dive into the story some first

5:47

things first for folks who genuinely to have

5:49

not encountered fat camps as a thing. SEC

5:51

teams are programs they're often short

5:54

term residential programs. for adults

5:56

or children that promise

5:58

to deliver sure

6:00

Weight loss. That usually comes from

6:02

really intensive exercise programs.

6:04

Some of the places that I looked at reported

6:07

six hours a of intensive

6:09

exercise program. Oh my God, I

6:12

was Major calorie restriction. So a

6:14

number of the 11:00

6:16

or 12:00 calories day somewhere

6:18

around 15 or 1,800

6:20

calories day, but pretty significant. How

6:24

old are these? Kids are, like,

6:26

how young do fat camps go? The

6:28

youngest specific age that I

6:30

saw mentioned in the literature, was

6:32

they talking about a seven year old kidnapped?

6:36

Young, The Biggest

6:39

Loser. Basically, that is one

6:41

version of fat camps. Most

6:43

of the fat camps that are open and

6:45

operational. Today are very, very

6:47

careful to go. We're not

6:50

fat camps, gross, weight loss management.

6:53

It's

6:56

the same as like, we're

6:58

not diet. where you're like, okay, you

7:00

are, but you know that people are going to go for the city,

7:02

call it diet.

7:03

After the duration of these camps because you

7:05

said the one that you went to.

7:07

Then. Just a day camp like your parents,

7:09

dry be there in the morning and pick up in the evening to them is also

7:11

ones, were you in Slasher movie

7:13

in the? Woods with lifeguards and stuff to

7:15

write like residential can't see the longest

7:18

one that I saw was a twelve

7:20

week program so be like all

7:22

summer nine, weeks

7:24

is generally. The longest that twelve week one was kind

7:27

of an outlier, the shortest

7:29

one on the residential and was two

7:31

weeks I think about currently

7:33

there are about two dozen summer.

7:35

Fact camps in operation in

7:37

the U.S. that was as of twenty nineteen, should

7:39

say not currently, though who knows who made

7:41

it through the pandemic rates, yeah, as

7:43

of twenty. Thirteen the

7:45

quote unquote wellness tourism industry

7:48

sack him for a part of, that was

7:50

worth four hundred and ninety four billion

7:53

dollars globally So it

7:55

is worth knowing that these can be extreme

7:58

cash cows for the people who. Operate.

8:00

them what are people paying to send their kids

8:03

like normal civilians, what

8:05

are these camps causing the one that we're going to talk about today,

8:08

the cost is between twenty five?

8:10

Hundreds dollars and ten thousand dollars,

8:12

depending on which location

8:14

you go to, how long you stay, twenty

8:17

five hundred dollars is for two weeks in Arizona,

8:19

around ten thousand dollars is. For seven weeks

8:21

and California, that's lot. So

8:24

I mean, these are rich parents and. Get.

8:26

Fundamental yes, it's also worth noting seconds

8:29

had been around in one form or another since at least

8:31

the turn of the century since there earlier

8:33

incarnations were mostly called

8:35

fat. Forums oh have

8:37

some pictures for you have

8:40

ah nineteen thirties

8:42

fat farm it was one of the most famous

8:44

ones called Rose Door Farms It.

8:47

was located at a dairy farm

8:49

in upstate new york times

8:52

to sir you these okay so sing

8:54

one here is Moto

8:58

that was posted at Roo Door Farms,

9:00

this is from raise your houses and. That. Exercise

9:05

is necessary.

9:05

Very to meet modern standards of Greece

9:08

and Sig your beauty inquire

9:10

about are delightful gym classes so

9:13

saying. Exercise is

9:15

necessary to be beautiful, basically,

9:17

yeah, in to sort of. A woman, yeah,

9:20

I have some fun. Exercise pictures as

9:22

well fuck up a whole new it's.

9:24

not great photo it's three women

9:27

doing push ups i presume

9:29

but of the photo is shot Like

9:31

just their butts, so it looks like a wrap.

9:34

The l e. o That are wearing

9:36

high heels they're wearing heels

9:38

in as.

9:38

Three picture of a substitute for

9:41

its etc. Wearing like shorts and

9:43

tee shirts like they're going to work out and

9:45

then sucking heels and their

9:47

hair is set and they're wearing makeup protests

9:49

are in like of grassy field in

9:51

these and he was on the heels lot of some of the.

9:56

That's the grace and beauty they're talking about. Though

9:58

over heels match. Oh, yeah, like

10:01

yours, yours.

10:01

Introduce you fat camp uniform

10:03

of short shorts, a cap

10:05

sleeve t shirt and me see us.

10:08

The only thing to know his sack camps

10:11

are most present in

10:13

the US but there are also

10:15

sat camps in the UK there's like a

10:17

burgeoning sort of movement to do

10:19

NHS run sat camps in the UK

10:22

who they're. also fat camps

10:24

in australia and canada in qatar

10:26

in denmark in japan kind

10:28

of all over the place right now i remember

10:31

when was doing research for my article that never happened

10:33

somewhere they said that fat cancer the fastest

10:35

growing segment of the summer

10:37

camp market or her there's rising

10:40

demand which makes sense and also think because

10:42

people are willing to pay more The

10:44

sort of. The best allies camps,

10:47

it makes sense it more. Camps

10:49

will be getting into this just because they can

10:51

charge people more, essentially yeah, totally,

10:53

one of the pieces that I read said, on average, it costs

10:56

sixteen hundred dollars more to send your

10:58

kid to fat camp than two other some. The

11:00

camps it should got lot because they're feeding them

11:02

less.

11:04

In order to. church

11:06

camp he feels important to lift up that sack

11:09

him sir not just like nefarious

11:11

parents making mean decisions on

11:13

their children's behalf rate these

11:15

kinds of sort of desperate measures are born

11:17

of a system that doesn't just Then.

11:19

I just sat kids and sat parents

11:22

and parents of fat kids regardless of their size

11:24

in some cases it threatens custody

11:27

or is there have been a number of cases

11:29

in. The US, where children have been removed from their

11:31

homes because of the kid's weight and belief that

11:33

the kid's weight, is sort of proof

11:35

positive of parents, Nick Lakins earlier.

11:38

, year there was a case in

11:41

West Sussex in England, were

11:44

two kids were placed in foster care

11:46

as result of their. weight they

11:48

were using sit that's that had been given

11:50

to them by The sort of British

11:53

equivalent of child protective services

11:55

they were signed up to weight watchers the whole

11:57

family was but. the kids

12:00

Hadn't lost weight get

12:02

off on it's fucking horrible I'm gonna send

12:04

you quote from the judge that.

12:06

feels really illustrative to me about

12:08

how we think and talk about fat kids

12:10

and parenting second okay

12:13

Everyone. agrees that this is a very sad and

12:15

unusual case of loving family

12:17

for the parents meet many of the basic needs of the children,

12:20

but the local authorities been concerned. That

12:22

the parents are not meeting the children's health needs

12:24

the cases such an unusual one because

12:27

the. The elderly clearly had some very good

12:29

parenting as they were polite.

12:30

The bright and engaging fuck

12:33

this yep so everything is

12:35

fine except the kid's way yet and

12:37

we have to take the kids away from their loving and bright

12:39

and cool parents yes network clearly

12:41

doing a good job but they have sack and.

12:44

thing outside kids it must be because

12:47

of an invisible deficiency in their parenting

12:49

that is only evidence through the size

12:51

of their kid's body spray it's also

12:53

so fucked up because like i don't know

12:55

what the fate of these children are but the idea

12:58

that taking children forcibly from their parents

13:00

is like somehow better for their health

13:03

is demented two things would say

13:05

one smart money says those

13:07

kids are not going to get sinner as a result the been

13:09

put in foster care exactly sing

13:11

to his what fucking

13:13

role of the dice you've got great parents

13:16

who are nice you and who you presumably

13:18

love and who presumably love you And

13:20

now you are fat kid who's just

13:22

like second walking target going in. Do

13:25

some the and Ranger Foster parents

13:27

home who. my The

13:29

be nice like your parents and might be

13:32

terrible and might have weird.

13:34

About? That people and my even to me like

13:36

it's, not great we have the now

13:38

have a mandate to force these children to lose weight

13:41

since, like, okay, great they're like. Now in foster

13:43

care with an eating disorder yeah like the

13:45

best case and, basically so

13:48

on and aggregate level

13:50

this appears to be pretty

13:53

bad in the. uk between

13:56

two thousand and nine Twenty fourteen

13:58

seven before fat kid.

14:00

We're. Removed from their homes just,

14:02

a result of weight since in

14:05

twenty sixteen NHS Scotland

14:07

officially recommended setting up state

14:10

funded Zach camps, and

14:12

in twenty one the NHS. In England

14:14

set up pilot program assists

14:17

teams that camps around, England

14:20

the prospect of state run. sack camps

14:23

makes me so fucking impossibly

14:25

sad it's such mockery of

14:27

this wave of court evidence

14:29

based policy that we've been getting the last decade

14:32

that this would work to meaningfully

14:34

and reliably reduce long term weight loss

14:36

in children

14:37

The joke, yeah, we know from the biggest loser

14:39

that when you send you. Our to ranch, they lose

14:42

weight at the ransom, they come home and again or the.

14:44

It back, yes, even if you hate

14:46

that people, even if you are like for

14:48

our leave, that phobic. This

14:50

is not the so.

14:51

In totally so on the one

14:53

hand we've got this idea that like is

14:56

a kid is in loving

14:58

home but they're fat than that is insufficient

15:00

parenting but. if they're fat

15:03

and in strict home That

15:05

punishing them for being fat that somehow

15:07

better and more responsible if the parent's

15:10

rate I, wanted

15:12

to take look at this is from.

15:15

documentary in the uk we're gonna watch little clip

15:18

about kids getting ready to go to fat

15:20

camp we are going to watch couple

15:23

of minutes of this so apologies

15:25

slash get ready

15:28

The thing is, I see someone thinks so the has

15:31

to with thanks to the docsis on know how

15:33

to cook we saw and.

15:41

The like an Aussie comes down to

15:44

annoy, in fact, is that of A.

15:45

The thoughts of she was to do a little bit eva

15:48

me, I said he said game it's any thought the fall

15:50

ironic for the girls she benefit of

15:52

she has to be cited otherwise. The

15:55

would be like he has a more she's. Hi

15:59

Patty. banana He always eight.

16:01

Q's sometimes unfortunately

16:03

because little bit two thousand and four years of.

16:06

his get upset

16:08

Have you managed to hide in my life?

16:11

easier for you

16:14

But as this were dead soon as he said,

16:16

this is now that he does so because

16:18

he get. Yet we need and

16:20

I did him, cause he does, he goes on and on about

16:22

it. Hurting for the say

16:25

those, are for, oh food

16:27

have a day sit down at or never go

16:30

out the don't know I haven't got any. friends and

16:33

not a can't do anything and

16:35

stuff that

16:37

I'm a horrible horrible,

16:39

twenty or. defeat love

16:42

of to me This column if.

16:44

the elderly

16:46

I can see a final and think about

16:50

what, the vigilante fill in the summer

16:52

I, do have enough were

16:54

born else. does some

16:56

slack The lot

16:59

be covering, her face

17:01

down laugh when he finally gets and. world

17:04

now i have to adopt to random children

17:06

from the uk

17:07

Are you know Ryan how's your site horror?

17:11

Show it, I know it feels like

17:13

a documenting an act of abuse, yeah,

17:15

like for parents to be saying this

17:17

about their kids like bad enough, but for them

17:20

to be saying it.

17:21

The National TV, yeah, in

17:23

that scene where that little girl

17:25

is in the kitchen, her pair. The'are are speaking

17:28

the so or render sli about her, there's a moment

17:30

where her dad is talking about how. He

17:32

never moves and then she likes looks

17:34

at the cam. Yeah, and I guess so

17:36

sad to me that, like, she's aware of the

17:39

fact that this is only going to lead to

17:41

more bullying for her son who abuse

17:43

and from her fucking pier.

17:45

And from her parents in the research that

17:47

I have done, came across media

17:49

doesn't like full length

17:51

documentaries or documentary

17:54

episodes of TV series

17:56

or whatever about vacuums and

17:59

they all do. Do this shit. They

18:01

all film parents

18:03

saying so. The horrible things in their

18:05

kid's presence they all include first

18:08

and last names they all include

18:10

the weight of the child like.

18:13

it just makes you feel really powerless

18:15

when your parents are like your body

18:18

as of right and you need to six victim

18:20

to

18:20

The way my child way to her parents

18:23

are blaming her or.

18:24

It's truly awful in it

18:26

is worth noting she is built like

18:28

her parents, yeah, and I sat not

18:31

to be like, oh, what, a couple of hypocrites

18:33

which is usually sort of the line. I don't

18:35

think that's helpful because don't think. That

18:37

most people can control their body size

18:40

on the way that we'd like to believe of they can

18:42

race, but it does

18:44

feel instructive. That

18:47

this kid looks like her parents, and

18:49

it might not be that she's doing something wrong,

18:51

such as therm mom

18:53

noted the she's like. In. A particular

18:56

way she's like not using fat, not frying

18:58

anything she doing other stuff, she's sort

19:00

of exasperated and like we're doing everything right,

19:03

but she still gaining weight like

19:05

what. Do we do and I'm like so that may be a sign

19:08

that it's not actually about individual behaviors

19:10

my guy that exactly, but there's not really an alternative

19:12

being offered as? Point and it sounds like

19:15

the alternative is sending her to some

19:17

short term bullying

19:19

cabins out in the woods where

19:21

they're going to be city to her, she's probably gonna lose.

19:24

fifteen pounds with as you can again.

19:25

Twenty five, that's what always fucking happens,

19:27

so that actually good.

19:28

Then. into the next sort of thing that I wanted

19:31

to talk about in context world and then we get

19:33

to dive into this particular fat camp

19:35

and, wanted to take a. Look at the research around SAT

19:37

camps and there's been quite a bit of an overwhelmingly

19:41

these studies that have been done in his

19:43

hat camps trumpet the success

19:46

of weight loss. Camps for kids

19:48

as an effective intervention, in

19:51

the war on childhood obesity rate

19:53

and the overwhelming majority of

19:56

these studies measure success based

19:58

on to measures One

20:00

what was their weight on day one and

20:02

what was their weight on the last day of camp and,

20:05

to what was there be mile on day

20:07

one and what with their be am I on the last

20:09

day of? great i found two

20:12

studies the did any kind of follow

20:14

up after camp was over or well

20:16

one of those fallen of

20:18

Months later, and it showed that ninety

20:21

percent of campers had regained signal.

20:23

In amounts in weight and the following ten months

20:26

but the way that they framed it up

20:28

in that study was their BMC

20:30

I stayed at or below what it was on

20:32

day one of camp even just by like

20:34

point five of a BMC I

20:36

point rate so. they were like

20:38

success look all these people who

20:40

weighed less than when they started fat camp i'm like

20:43

Right? We're talking about like one pounds

20:46

a year later and also their pets, her parents

20:48

spent like fifteen thousand pulsars

20:50

that is such an expensive but out of

20:53

hand anecdotally number.

20:55

Of camp owners of said that about half

20:57

of their campers each year or return

21:00

campers, well there you go

21:02

rights and which they're

21:04

like, "It's great they keep coming back" To that's

21:06

great and I'm like cool. So what

21:08

I do?

21:08

The know what the paradigm

21:11

is supposed to be where this would induce

21:13

long term success because the whole saying is

21:15

that you're sending a way to camp to sort

21:17

of kickstart their weight loss and learn.

21:19

The girl. They can then

21:21

take back with them, but the thing

21:23

is the camps themselves are totally

21:26

unsustainable. Styles: Yes, these kids

21:28

are not gonna go home and exercise for six hours

21:30

or. The'and and eleven hundred calories.

21:32

For long period of time. And then

21:34

the idea of skills that

21:36

you're teaching them information, your party. In education

21:39

at the cancer, they can then apply when they

21:41

go home is also bullshit because

21:44

everyone knows most of the

21:46

things about quote, unquote, healthy

21:48

eating, right, people know fruits and vegetables

21:50

don't. Right through the desert like

21:52

everyone knows the base. The architecture

21:54

of the as the. And although lot of these kids

21:56

when you send them back home with their not preparing

21:59

their own suit. Yeah, I don't know all these

22:01

kids are, but they looked about like, and thirteen fourteen.

22:04

Probably their mana's so going to be cooking meals,

22:07

and a lot of these kids are not necessarily in control of

22:09

their own finances, so if they're not buying their

22:11

own snacks.

22:12

That doesn't make any sense that this would actually worth,

22:15

yeah, so this is also one of the troops.

22:17

Comes up when they talk to owners

22:19

of SAT camps and director as that camps

22:22

when they go oh. hey it looks like some

22:24

of the kids regain the way the response

22:26

from people who runs at camps as well that's because

22:28

their parents didn't follow up okay

22:30

and their parents didn't change in the family system needs

22:32

to change and i'm like well if the families of

22:35

The fucking change our holy fucking does. And

22:37

and even is that premise were true?

22:41

Then fucking make an intervention about the family

22:43

system changing and not shipping your kid off

22:45

to suck, in fact.

22:47

This is a thing is like you're saying

22:49

the thing you're suggesting as an intervention

22:51

doesn't work, and then the person in charge of

22:54

interventions like knitter know we'd have different

22:56

interventions, yeah. Great by

22:59

what. do i need a bad game for if it's all about

23:01

the parents yeah there's also like presumably

23:04

psychological damage The other negative

23:06

outcomes that come from.

23:08

Losing weight and gaining it back oh

23:10

Michael, oh Michael, you're like a human.

23:12

Like way it's super for I'm like Mid

23:14

Wales is sending me Skype this

23:17

issue I'd as method allowed to

23:19

read certain. No

23:23

this, is from. physician

23:26

caroline well barry in American

23:28

family physician in two thousand and six

23:30

and this was quote that the underscores

23:32

exactly what the fuck he were just talking about

23:35

scissors. even weight loss camp

23:38

or popular intervention few studies

23:40

have evaluated their effectiveness

23:42

The results of to study showed some

23:44

weight loss and campers and another showed no

23:46

weight, Saints, yeah, so basically this

23:48

is another fucking thing the sealed is there's

23:50

all these interventions that are being touted

23:52

like the NHS is. The

23:55

of setting up state run fat camp

23:57

on the basis of what evidence

23:59

yet. Often times when you actually look,

24:02

there's like a study or two or something as.

24:04

Really low quality. There's all

24:06

these ruger noises from the methodologies

24:08

of these extremely true. The study

24:11

is oftentimes that are funded, I do,

24:13

in this case, but oftentimes they're funded

24:15

from whatever in. Three

24:17

is trying to sell the intervention.

24:19

And then you always find this thing about.

24:21

Obesity such an important issue we need

24:23

to move fast on this, even know the

24:26

data.

24:26

They're sick more than what are we moving

24:28

fast on the basis of he of, and

24:30

although it doesn't even seem like is that very much. Trust

24:33

in finding out whether something actually works

24:35

or not yet worse in the long term rate

24:37

is a nurse that something is

24:39

able to like, take some number of pounds

24:41

off of small number of kids in

24:44

the short term people are.

24:45

Great, it works what's wrong with it and there's no

24:48

consideration. Have you

24:50

know of all the studies that? I'm gonna see two

24:52

dozen studies may be amazing. One

24:56

mentioned eating disorders and wait

24:58

stick with no way one, yeah, everything

25:00

else was just like how much do they will day

25:02

one, how much the I am last day it works,

25:05

let's run with it suits me and you.

25:07

The for, in so many diet studies for

25:09

the show, and one thing I

25:11

can say with rock solid

25:13

certainty. That the short

25:15

term weight loss is the easiest fucking

25:17

say it's a for crop of. Yeah,

25:20

I'm worried, Diet. In

25:22

short term weight loss, so it's weird

25:24

for. The studies, the that this discourse

25:26

even still exists. They all

25:28

worked after six weeks, but we don't know. When the follow

25:30

up, it's like. Everything worked for six

25:33

weeks most, and we haven't

25:35

even fucking figured out why

25:37

people are.

25:38

That. Wait, wait, we have a bunch of series

25:41

there or something like sixty different types

25:43

of obesity that researchers have sort of

25:45

pinpointed that all have different

25:47

causes and different effects rate. Like

25:50

it is bananas to be like, okay,

25:52

we don't totally know what the origin

25:54

of the problem is we don't know. Where

25:56

it's located, we don't know whatever,

25:58

but we definitely know. Fix total sec

26:01

yep several, so I mean. That's an

26:03

interesting point, too, because.

26:04

You could imagine I mean, for fuck's sake, never

26:07

effect camp, but you could imagine some. Sort

26:09

of intervention being effective

26:12

at improving health. Habits.

26:14

If you did some sort of diagnosis beforehand,

26:17

yeah, there's no other screening going on,

26:19

it seems like of whether this sort of thing

26:21

is actually what the kids need, yeah,

26:23

it. Also seems like there's funneling in all

26:26

of the kids that can pay, yeah, mean

26:28

that.

26:28

A number of stories in these

26:30

fat camp I watched the sucking Michael

26:34

poses. ninety minutes of my life

26:36

that i will never get back I watched the something

26:38

mtv sack camps documentary

26:41

from like two thousand and six. Dude, I've seen

26:43

that asked. It's so

26:45

fucking horrible you just watch

26:47

all of the kids that are less fat,

26:49

fucking bully, all the kids who are more

26:51

fat for no one of those kids

26:54

is type one diabetics and

26:56

she's been home schooled because the. Effects

26:58

of her medication or so intense

27:01

which? means she hasn't been around other kids and

27:03

she's sort of like a little bit mystified by the

27:05

social dynamics that she hasn't been in the mid couple

27:08

years now everyone is

27:10

fucking horrible to her and

27:12

eminent this was not every part episode been out

27:14

as because now i'm talking about it i'm so fucking mad

27:18

There are also to people who day and they

27:20

dated last year at Fat Camp and then

27:22

they both come back. And.

27:25

The dude and the couple keep seeing, like, fool,

27:27

look at how fucking fat maurice I got, like,

27:29

more can't even look at her anymore but less, but

27:31

then will also give. Her letters that are like I'm still

27:34

in love with you and still have feelings for you and any mean

27:36

things that say oh and found that I'm not

27:38

with. You anymore? Then

27:40

she's takes those fucking notes

27:42

and read them aloud to her friends

27:44

and they make fun of them and she

27:47

outs him as being bipolar Koreans.

27:50

no fucking joke were like how

27:52

can i show these teenagers up their worst

27:54

the yeah but in particular so the one

27:57

of us out of campers at fat camp in

27:59

this Documentary is,

28:02

this girl named Diane there

28:04

was a review in the Washington Post

28:07

of this documentary and they were basically like

28:09

it's great you should watch it. the

28:11

way that the reviewer The

28:13

describes. The saddest

28:15

camper, his quote. There is also

28:17

Diane, whose mother works at

28:19

the camp. Attempts to deal with most

28:21

problems by weeping profusely

28:24

and who bears and unfortunate resemblance

28:26

to serial killer John Wayne Gacy.

28:29

What the fuck is that what does that sick

28:31

burn have a child, what should I do with

28:33

this platform should don't wanna sat

28:35

disabled eighth grader, yeah, was

28:37

cool dude what a great

28:39

sucking idea you'd see if

28:42

I missed the magic.

28:42

You. Throwing here TV and of

28:45

a dumpster setting it on fire, I mean

28:47

us for if ',

28:49

look at like that with heavy bag on

28:51

the on shot suffer like. was like, "I

28:53

feel like need to do like a bunch of

28:55

fucking sunshine, have you ever been

28:57

so mad at website that you throw your phone across

29:00

the? For some severe say such disrupt

29:02

site, as if like if that's where it,

29:04

lives but have

29:06

you ever had disagree it's you mean do

29:08

I had this experience every? Time I'm researching

29:10

an episode of the show "Yes I, was your first

29:13

call him from twenty one years ago

29:15

my family my study, but phone this he

29:17

suffered as" a thesaurus

29:21

so here's more about the

29:23

research community the main thing to know it's like it's

29:25

all short term it's not particularly

29:28

illustrative of those sort of long term

29:30

effects Almost none

29:32

of the media that, if others, one book. That

29:35

I found that was focused on

29:37

the actual camper's experience everything

29:39

else was just did they lose weight or did they not lose

29:41

weight as. good as

29:43

then where is the interest

29:45

in this the person The study'the, but they gather

29:48

the fucking quantitative data

29:50

They do, they're like statistical things, but

29:52

there's no actual endeavor.

29:54

You understand the phenomena,

29:56

yeah, it's like we found the saying we got a graph

29:59

we got enough to public.

30:00

But if people did we fucking to learn anything, I

30:02

mean, will say there were like a couple

30:04

of. Studies that use

30:06

some like existing tools to measure

30:09

overall self esteem for their

30:11

and said that average self esteem

30:13

increased for campers over the course

30:15

of camp, but they do. Asked

30:18

why you like it could be that they

30:20

are feeling better about themselves, cause they're

30:22

actually able to be around just other fact.

30:24

Kids for the first time. It could

30:27

be that they were in an environment

30:29

that was entirely focused on weight loss and

30:31

then see it. Then. One thing

30:33

right like temporarily lost weight,

30:35

yeah, there's this idea that, like Sacchi of is good,

30:37

it makes you have higher self esteem and it's like, will

30:40

fucking hang on how. Long does that park

30:42

last two episodes

30:44

what it says to me is that they're creating

30:46

an even, sir. The link between

30:49

the kid's self esteem. They're weak,

30:51

yes, this is the cycle that everybody.

30:52

This you're envisioning this new life for yourself. And

30:55

then in.

30:56

inevitably when you start gaining the weight back because you're

30:58

human being and this is what human beings do.

31:00

Because your self esteem is now even more

31:03

closely coupled to your weight, it's

31:05

even more devastating to go back to the

31:07

previous weight that you were at your like,

31:09

what is the? I'm doing this to your

31:11

children. When maybe

31:14

just leaving them at the same weight would actually

31:16

be better than losing twenty five pounds and day.

31:18

And. Twenty five pounds that's right, so

31:20

what we have in terms of look", said

31:22

sort of the long term impacts are accounts

31:24

from adults who went to fat camp as kids

31:27

there. , some adults I read don't

31:30

know a dozen personal accounts

31:32

of adults who into fat camp? some

31:34

folks did speak highly of their time it's at camp

31:37

they talk about things like being seen as

31:39

romantically desirable for the first time in

31:41

their lives they liked being around

31:43

other sat people and not feeling sort

31:45

of excluded and different in that way

31:47

although the saddest campers that fat

31:49

camp report and having those same feelings

31:51

rape friend that only works for people who are

31:54

not the saddest people in the room cool they

31:56

talk about her breaking the isolation and realizing

31:58

they work alone in how they were The wing about

32:00

being fat kid or their experiences of being

32:02

fat kid but, again

32:05

"All of this is happening in setting that is explicitly

32:07

entirely focused on sort of producing

32:09

finesse wraith phrase like I'm very

32:12

glad that there are people who have had good

32:14

experiences", I will say. Then.

32:16

Folks who spoke most highly

32:18

of their experiences were entirely

32:21

people who present to me as than adults,

32:23

oh, interesting, it's a very small sample

32:25

size, it's not scientific and anyway, but.

32:27

I was like oh notable

32:30

yeah notable the, people

32:32

who feel good about it or the people who did what it

32:34

wanted them to do which has become thin

32:36

adults wraith. Fresh the flip side

32:38

of that is a number of people

32:40

talked about Sat campus their gateway to restrictive

32:43

eating disorder, campers and counselors

32:46

both talked about developing been

32:48

purged. Behaviors when they were camp and

32:50

hiding food, and falling

32:53

into bunch of disordered eating patterns

32:56

full

32:56

What I would love to hear from

32:59

the owner of a fat camp is what.

33:01

is the distinction is Then between exercising

33:04

six hours day and eating eleven hundred. salaries

33:06

at fat camp and doing that not at

33:08

fat camp because if you're not have backup that's fucking

33:10

eating disorder, please you're not sap percent

33:13

of the news of yeah, exactly it's

33:15

disordered eating of.

33:16

Worse they have disordered eating after go

33:18

to the disordered eating farm totally

33:21

I'm. going send you one more quote so many

33:24

of the adults and kids who talked

33:26

about going to fat camp talked about

33:28

how most of the kids there had

33:30

really rough home lives

33:33

that were often made worse By.

33:36

Deeply judgmental parents, so some

33:38

kids asked to go to saturn, amp the

33:41

majority of majority down

33:43

and by their parents, so this is a quote from former

33:46

sacked for. It's as most

33:48

of the kids were sent their against their will, buy ashamed,

33:50

very wealthy parents almost every

33:52

girl in my cabin had story about something wretched

33:55

that family. member had said to her about how her

33:57

size was real. Collecting poorly on the family.

34:00

The overwhelming sentiment was the kids at

34:02

the key. Need? To be fixed rather than

34:04

helped for support as yeah shocking

34:06

twist everyone is here because their mom

34:08

is the man from Titanic the,

34:10

time and resources so before

34:13

we gonna. Make Michael made another

34:15

titanic reference which makes you just they did you watch

34:17

Titanic last night there's only one movie in my life

34:20

and set him single time, I.

34:22

Watched it last night as we, know and love them

34:25

as his successor synthesis

34:27

that's me but with like the muppets, most

34:29

wanted Ty

34:31

Burrell as French interpol. guy

34:34

the doing okay for that

34:36

is the very Generally,

34:38

dark context that we're walking

34:40

in Seattle now I'm all worked up.

34:42

I.

34:43

No, do all the emotions

34:45

that you went through in the last like three.

34:46

We. I can,

34:48

are, fat, can better

34:51

a reed word can, are is can

34:54

only do one camp can every finding

34:56

camp is, the slogan of named

34:59

can. , bi in a one

35:01

case to most

35:04

of we are going to talk about

35:06

one fat camp in Para

35:08

having word of camp Shan named its

35:11

named camp. Shan can it's named

35:13

for the word Shan as we

35:16

an, which is the is word

35:19

for do to, for only to

35:21

camp Shan is one the most famous

35:23

fat. Camp than the country it is the

35:25

first to and fat camp

35:27

shan is screenwriters by the screenwriters, as having

35:30

inspired having we the

35:32

slogan for Camp Shan I. Named

35:34

Finding Having, is word

35:37

than as. most one

35:40

than is as for going better slogan

35:43

every slogan is we better

35:45

than fat camp we are we

35:47

is about do we i

35:49

the a for

35:52

The quite eat pray just kidding

35:54

don't eat and,

35:57

lot going on what suffers for consider as the episode

36:00

I'm done listening I like same guess

36:03

so, cause I'm talking

36:05

about this I'm using the past tense because earlier

36:07

this year after sixty three

36:09

years and. business the

36:11

most famous sacking of in the

36:13

country i would argue abruptly

36:15

Closed the owner told

36:18

parents and media that they were closing because

36:20

they were short staffed and didn't have enough staff

36:22

who are willing to work under coven protocols

36:25

in, the. Months since then a very different,

36:28

very complex and very dark story

36:30

has unfolded. about

36:32

like hey it might not have just been about staff

36:35

It's never whenever management blames.

36:37

Workers for the company failing,

36:39

it's never the work that was. The'so

36:41

so the biggest store.

36:43

Either sort of story that really blew this open

36:46

was a long read and Bloomberg

36:49

written by someone named David Jovi Herbert's

36:52

who spoke to over sixty

36:55

former campers and counsellors and

36:57

staffers so, the story

36:59

here starts with family. the

37:01

two people that were going to spend the most time with

37:04

our Selma Attenborough.

37:06

Who is the mom and the family and the founder

37:09

of Camp Chain?

37:11

The other person we're going to spend the most time with his

37:13

her oldest son David

37:15

Attenborough she,

37:17

started Kim seen in nineteen sixty eighth

37:19

seeded a bunch of media around the

37:22

opening of Camp Shane and got

37:24

ton of coverage in it's early years.

37:27

and i am going to

37:29

send you a quote about

37:31

that coverage from this

37:33

bloomberg peace it's as there was

37:35

open coverage could be casually vicious

37:38

nobody loves the fat kid an expat he

37:40

finds read new york daily news headline from

37:42

nineteen seventy two her objective

37:44

is to make human being have child who

37:46

enters camp looking like glob

37:49

detroit free press reporter wrote two

37:51

years later my parents love me now

37:53

one boy told reporter they don't pick on

37:55

me anymore so again parental

37:57

bullying is safe of this

38:00

Fucking Abbey Road and his entire sector yeah

38:03

so, Camp seem started out as one

38:05

camp in Ferndale, New York's

38:08

that served twenty campers it's first year

38:10

over the years it grew

38:13

too many states and

38:15

it's served over six hundred campers

38:17

at it's height. each of them are

38:19

paying about sixteen hundred dollars so adjusted

38:22

for inflation the camp is

38:25

Reagan and about a million dollars

38:27

year or so, Selma. Getting

38:30

rich off of the scheme for break

38:32

in terms of the actual program at Camp

38:34

seen what folks are put on was

38:37

fifteen hundred calorie day diet

38:40

sued did not have salts because

38:42

of me. The retention issue, so

38:44

there were no snacks, there were no sweets,

38:47

the if there was field trip to. Nearby.

38:49

Town, when the campers return,

38:51

their bags were searched to makes your kids

38:53

weren't sneaking ensues, nice

38:56

packages sent to the

38:58

camp were also search, there

39:00

was one story of someone who. Is like my

39:02

mom sent me Maxi pads because

39:04

I was on my period and a counsellor made me

39:06

open them in front of her to prove that they

39:08

work can be. Oh wow God's

39:11

sake I don't know man as a teenager

39:13

who's having period like and especially if

39:15

you're on your fucking period or you know.

39:18

it's attempt year or so sir Like

39:21

doing all this shit to limit the amount of

39:23

foods and the kinds of foods the kids have access

39:25

to but at the same time the,

39:28

owner was recruiting sin

39:30

counsellors overwhelmingly. and

39:33

He decided the owner the time

39:35

decided that they didn't actually need to be on the restricted

39:37

diet that the campers were on so

39:40

she had separate pig out

39:42

room is what it was called right.

39:44

next to the main dining hall that campers

39:46

could see oh And it was just

39:48

full of whatever fucking. Kind

39:50

of food sin counsellors wanted to

39:53

eat and, Campers

39:56

hit their goal way, they were sometimes

39:58

allowed to go into the pig out room. As

40:00

like row.

40:00

Ward and,

40:02

it makes no sense furthermore he has

40:05

yet it's the announcement that people

40:07

can't live like this on any kind of long term

40:09

basis because if they could than the counsellors would

40:11

live like this too Secondly,

40:14

your reward for. Restricting

40:16

eat it. If you get to eat as much as you want,

40:19

that's like a really bad paradigm to teach the kids,

40:21

it also seems like we're the counterproductive

40:24

to whatever the fuck you're doing, their it just

40:26

seems like it's gonna teach these kids to like eat

40:28

nothing and been.

40:29

That's exactly right it's like food. is

40:31

reward that you get from being thin

40:34

which you get from not eat yeah

40:36

so you get to eat after you not eat

40:38

Not yeah, it doesn't, it doesn't make any

40:40

sense, so in addition to all of

40:42

that.

40:43

Campers are regularly

40:45

wade measured and photograph

40:47

they're usually photographed shirtless

40:50

or in a swimsuit or in underwear

40:52

we're talking about folks that we saw in the clip

40:55

that we watched were like one was eleven.

40:58

And the other one I think with. The team. This

41:00

is not a time when you want to be mostly

41:03

as robed in front of your peers especially

41:05

if you're fucking sack rate like it's was like no.

41:08

no selma was

41:10

widely understood by pretty much

41:12

everybody who came in contact with her to

41:14

be very intense and very polarizing

41:17

figure there was song at

41:19

the camp Who the tune

41:21

of bingo? That

41:23

went there was bitch who ran this camp

41:25

and Selma was her name oh yeah,.

41:30

yeah wow foul

41:32

mouth is in the seventies seriously

41:35

god She was super

41:38

fucking intense in her management.

41:42

He had three children

41:45

who in their adulthood she would talk

41:47

to them about some of taking over the camp when

41:51

her daughter Diana

41:53

gave birth to her first child,

41:56

Selma, got extremely

41:58

angry, oh, because. Is

42:00

like you are supposed to work at this camp

42:02

and now your attention is divided so

42:04

she fired her daughter and cut

42:07

off her health insurance she's cutting toxic

42:09

people out of her life twenty Selma

42:12

Selma, Resolution

42:15

stuck with,. it so The

42:17

either be eldest stays on at the

42:19

sack him and his sister.

42:21

His. That really hard and there's a long standing

42:24

rift between the two of them as result of it

42:26

where she's like you just watched our mom fucking fire me

42:28

and got. Off my health insurance, abusive

42:30

parents are very good at pitting

42:33

kids against each other, Selma sounds like

42:35

master class in that me so

42:38

by the late nineteen eighties. So camp Shane

42:40

his now been around for twenty years, David.

42:43

confronts has parents themselves

42:45

essentially.

42:47

They have got to hand over ownership if

42:49

they want him to stay on his tossed up other job

42:51

offers he's not. Doing other things

42:54

and they agree. In

42:56

pretty short order Selma seems

42:58

to get cold feet or have second thoughts or whatever

43:02

and, she filed a lawsuit

43:04

to invalidate the earlier agreement so

43:06

she's suing her son that's like good

43:08

first date weed them out question

43:11

but how many legal actions are you in

43:13

against your children assistant see

43:15

read your kids to okay so

43:18

Then. That and buying the camp from his

43:20

parents for one point two million dollars

43:23

in nineteen ninety one so this

43:25

whole court battle drags out over several

43:27

years in, the. End

43:29

of the courts upheld the sale and David

43:31

became the owner outright of campaign

43:35

but that did not stop Selma from

43:37

having huge fucking feelings

43:39

of resentment about that. in

43:41

two thousand The

43:43

I arrest started investigating. Campaign

43:46

financials and the evil financial,

43:49

in particular oh my God,

43:51

those of the kids both have some with kids,

43:53

David and Leslie, the other daughter,

43:56

believe that their mother or report

43:58

them to the I. R.S. due to it.

44:00

We're to start a business and then sell

44:02

it to your son and then. Try to ruin it, yes,

44:05

the just like foundational principle,

44:07

it's little weird so.

44:10

Those all of this

44:12

is happening, you can't change.

44:14

Keeps growing my in two thousand

44:16

to the camp was featured on that and

44:18

TV show True Life the year

44:21

after that A or the summer after that Earth and five

44:23

hundred campers a camp seen as

44:25

their highest number of and or well yes

44:28

as. all of this is happening as the camp is

44:30

growing in two thousand and six

44:33

david decides to go national and that's

44:35

when he opens up these campuses and all of these

44:37

other Ah, okay, this is also like the

44:39

heights of. Childhood.

44:41

Obesity pam act foia Dr.

44:43

Phil probably send him some kids in the boot

44:45

camp of say, "Fuck man, there

44:48

is also I will say am a dedicated

44:50

top chef fewer" And there isn't

44:52

an episode from one of the

44:54

early seasons where the chefs are like

44:56

challenge to like makes foods

44:58

that sit within restricted calories for

45:01

kids at sack camp. That,

45:04

starts his saddle dark So

45:08

the kids is growing and growing and growing. Helmand

45:10

sort of like sickly out of the picture.

45:14

The inside the camp. Things

45:16

were really fucking

45:19

Ross so. In

45:21

two thousand and eleven camp

45:24

counselor talks about what

45:26

her job was and here's Bloomberg has

45:28

to say about quote her. job

45:30

was to run arts and crafts but she spent

45:33

much of her time comforting kids Within

45:35

span of few. Hours one day she had

45:38

crying girl admit that she'd been putting

45:40

herself sound another purging

45:42

in the bathroom and console the sobbing

45:44

camper who'd lost quote only

45:47

ten pounds that who.

45:49

writes jacket they're fucking game show

45:52

contestant so they don't know it it's not good

45:54

for children so this counsellors

45:56

pay was five hundred and sixty

45:58

dollars plus remember For

46:00

eleven weeks of work she

46:02

says that while she was at the camp she developed

46:05

real practice have been doing

46:08

so. she spent her entire salary

46:10

on food or wow and when she was asked

46:13

about the campers she said quote if they didn't

46:15

come in with eating disorders they left

46:17

with the yeah i mean we were teaching

46:19

them to have eating disorders and they succeeded

46:22

in having eating source yeah there We're

46:24

also reports from other former employees

46:27

that say that the. The be eleanor instructed

46:29

them to write positive yelp reviews

46:32

of camp shane under pseudonyms,

46:35

according to these former employees if they didn't,

46:37

he said he would doc. They pay, I can't

46:39

believe that the person.

46:40

The city to children is also shitty

46:42

much as I ask you may.

46:45

become teenagers nice the success

46:47

of i should say it goes without saying david denies

46:49

all of this is like would never do that me of course

46:51

staff issues are like a real theme here so

46:54

i genuinely looked up

46:55

On like in the and glass door,

46:58

oh yeah, I. That employee reviews

47:00

of working at camp seen out.

47:02

of five stars it gets one point eight

47:04

stars for pay and benefits nice

47:07

nearly every written review mentioned

47:09

straight up not getting

47:11

Read, but at least a lot

47:13

of kids didn't lose any way.

47:15

And got psychologically traumatized ultimately

47:18

lining second kids feel worse than

47:20

ever zooming out it also harmed

47:22

many children his, own assess

47:25

the. one of the

47:27

reviews says quote i signed up hoping

47:29

to gain experience and nutrition and helping the children

47:31

to lose weight the food sucked became

47:34

lunch lady for every meal the meal plans

47:36

were put together without much thought The

47:38

sports activities were the same every

47:40

day know psychologist was provided

47:43

for a nurse like the parents were promised.

47:46

The company promises more than they give you

47:48

and the pay sucks especially since you were

47:50

on your feet from six thirty am to ten

47:52

thirty pm it. was basically

47:54

dollar and I mean that pointing at

47:56

some. The else to with this? The rise

47:59

of fat kid. As a

48:01

court, court held. Intervention that

48:03

there doesn't seem to be lot.

48:04

Quality control or differentiation

48:06

between the fat kids, I mean the whole

48:08

concept.

48:09

The fat camp is built on the idea that

48:12

it is children's responsibility.

48:14

To be. Great and that

48:17

any cost ten thousand dollars

48:19

is worth it if your kid. It is a

48:21

couple pounds lighter year later,

48:24

right there's.

48:24

accountability yeah, and are feeding

48:27

children is quite. He just don't

48:29

have enough food and make them exercise

48:32

correct, I mean, this is the thing is like of all the kids

48:34

are gaining the weight back and no one seems to care

48:36

for their ugly. The kids are blaming the parent. Why

48:39

would a fat can't ever improve? The do it

48:41

when you have no actual feedback loop so

48:44

things back of the camp continue to worsen

48:46

in twenty fifteen the.

48:48

director of the ferndale campus

48:50

the original campus

48:52

Then. Been the director for twenty years and he last

48:54

reportedly because there were some tensions

48:57

with the bed, as the owner, like things, are getting

48:59

worse and worse there, so for

49:01

the. First time since the early Nineties

49:03

the of it is in charge of the day to day operations

49:06

again and everything goes to shit

49:09

enrollment. is down to The

49:11

of the cabins are reportedly M.C. c

49:14

More and more camper seem to have mental

49:16

and behavioral health issues. One.

49:19

Kid smuggled in knives

49:21

to cut themselves at night, oh God,

49:24

when I say everything went to shit, that is also literal,

49:26

the camp had to septic pumps

49:28

and both of them. Bblew out one day so

49:30

the camp little and with which offered,

49:33

seen as but went off the rails

49:36

Georgia campus to they

49:38

and ruled an autistic camper who

49:40

was. Promised that staff

49:42

would stay with him in his cabin each night

49:44

is anxious, they

49:46

did not stay with him and his cabin any

49:48

nights not even on the first. Night and

49:51

on that first night in the absence of staff

49:53

presence the otters a camper. was repeatedly

49:56

raped by one of his both me That

50:00

punk me pleaded guilty to felony

50:03

charge as result. And.

50:06

The artistic camper's parents

50:08

the have filed civil suit against camp scene

50:10

and one or well in twenty

50:12

nineteen David cells,

50:15

the property that camp scene was on his

50:17

mother had. Bought it and eighteen succeed for sixty thousand

50:20

dollars he was now selling

50:22

it for six point three million

50:24

dollars for so he'd get out he's not

50:26

get now moves. the camp

50:28

to connecticut he moved to behind whole

50:30

campus where they rent Property

50:33

their raises school and,

50:35

that same year and twenty nineteen and new civil

50:37

suit Was filed against the camp,

50:40

alleging that former camper was

50:42

sexually abused repeatedly

50:44

by an adult staff member or while

50:46

in twenty one. Who's

50:49

Connecticut Media Groups as the submitter

50:51

for your request of Freedom of Information

50:53

Act request? When be

50:55

Connecticut or? As of early childhood,

50:58

which licenses summer camps around

51:00

the state. There were so many

51:02

complaints about Camp Shane that

51:04

the camp voluntarily surrendered

51:07

his license or wow. So

51:09

all of this horrible shit is happening,

51:12

all of these complaints are being filed,

51:14

all of these violations are been found

51:16

by the state. The investigation,

51:19

and in July, in the middle

51:21

of camp, parents across the country

51:24

got forty eight hours notice. They

51:27

would need to pick their kids up. And

51:29

if the camp was closing, said the sea, so

51:31

they had two days. You're in

51:33

Michigan, is New York figure out

51:35

these are rich parents they had their like butler's do

51:37

it, but still. They have I

51:39

have.

51:39

Captors: This is hovering over the camp at

51:41

all times, I assume the investigation

51:44

found that they had sixty two

51:46

violations in her, among other

51:48

things they found that the camp had

51:50

issues with missing. The campers,

51:52

those kids, are out. Looking for food, those kids are

51:54

hungry. They had sailed to train

51:57

staff. One administering medication

51:59

and again. The number of these kids have

52:02

met. The health issues, though none of us gets

52:04

a beautiful.

52:05

Yeah so those are sort of like the you

52:07

know categories. of violations

52:10

here are some of the actual stories

52:12

On the last weekend of it's operation,

52:14

a goal. Host fell on camper

52:17

that eight year old girl who

52:19

was the camper fracture. Her skull

52:22

campers. quote were encouraged to

52:24

work out until they vomited this is where we

52:26

going into baby biggest loser now parents

52:29

would call or email the camp to shares

52:31

are concerns about their kids experiences

52:33

and they didn't get any responses from the camp for days

52:37

Camp counselors were responsible for administering

52:40

cognitive behavioral therapy but,

52:43

like bunch of teenagers who he

52:45

flicked psychology yep and they

52:47

have no training and cbt wikipedia

52:50

you tube tutorial he of as i

52:52

learned iron sir yeah that's how you learn to be

52:54

a therapist right now all of this

52:56

is happening with as we mentioned

52:59

like frequent bullying

53:01

amongst campers and sometimes

53:03

between counsellors and keepers

53:05

right on man it's so fucking

53:08

ross what it's actually interesting

53:10

question what's the difference

53:12

between someone encouraging

53:15

your kid to lose weight and bullying them like

53:17

some of the stuff it's sort of encourage

53:19

for people to be me The kid. "The get

53:21

caught good health is at the end of yeah, I mean,

53:24

this is a thing that we've talked about little bit and

53:26

that I've written about which is that

53:28

the logic" Quote

53:31

unquote: Tough love weight loss is

53:33

just the same has the logic

53:35

of abuse I. wouldn't be doing

53:37

this if you didn't make me i'm doing it for your

53:39

own good as soon as you say

53:41

pop i can stop yeah you're

53:44

in control here you're making me do this and

53:46

don't like it right it really

53:48

does sort of operate from Pretty

53:50

similar playbooks, yeah,

53:53

it. That's thrown into even sharper. We

53:55

use when you take into account that we

53:57

don't know how to produce weight loss for

53:59

him. I already have little in the long term and

54:02

when certainly don't fucking know how to

54:04

do that is an empirical way with

54:06

kids yet we can't even

54:08

get. Then. Need you to stop playing pokemon

54:10

go sooner or do anything with teenager's

54:13

timely reference that was easy, though

54:15

the all got a specific impulse or

54:17

of for my inner at? The level of my interests

54:20

were, now just like the

54:22

human equivalent of that Steve Buscemi,

54:25

how are you doing fellow kids I have a

54:27

skateboard over my shoulder right now? ,

54:30

is, accurate I

54:33

will say like this is all the story of

54:35

one sack camp it was very prominent one

54:37

it was a very well. known one

54:40

but it is one sack him so by know

54:43

Is this like this exactly this

54:45

is happening at every sacking up ever, yeah,

54:47

but I do think it's worth listing up

54:50

that? When you focus

54:52

and environment exclusively on

54:54

getting children to change their bodies

54:56

at almost any costs. Then.

54:59

And you do, you prioritize the lived

55:01

experience of those kids, it

55:03

can attract a kind of person

55:06

who just doesn't care much about the

55:08

people that they're working with and in. Some

55:10

cases may have really profound

55:12

biases or grudges

55:14

or weird shit about fat people,

55:17

overwhelmingly there may be folks who haven't

55:19

really unpacked their own body, shit and up

55:21

externalising. That onto the people around

55:23

them to and. These are children and

55:26

I think there's this sense amongst the. The

55:28

people that talk to about Fat Camp site.

55:31

You know, that helps food also doesn't help

55:33

in that way, I mean it's as. narrow

55:36

Way to measure health and such a stupid way

55:38

to measure the wellbeing of children's, but even

55:40

on that one stupid measure doesn't fucking help, yeah,

55:42

totally focused everything on weight loss. With great

55:44

will are became sell, the numbers wait no okay,

55:47

yeah, settler or absent for

55:50

of fat camp is this idea that

55:52

this temporary intervention

55:54

were adults kind of with. Kids in

55:56

deceived is going to six. What?

56:00

As or and lead them.

56:01

To whatever point there at in their lives

56:03

right and whatever weight gain or

56:05

body size or any of that. That's right,

56:08

that's like, "Hey, man, if

56:10

you have abusive parents"

56:12

And they ship you off to fat camp and you

56:14

lose ten pounds in ten

56:16

weeks and. then you come home

56:19

your parents are still fucking abusive there's

56:21

also it's not clear me that this

56:23

scared straight approach works

56:26

for anything the idea that

56:28

you can take somebody out of their home

56:30

environment submit them to some

56:32

extreme regime Then and

56:34

then put them back. The into their home life. The

56:37

as a model of the.

56:38

If you're change, it does it make any

56:40

sense, is that plausible? Because

56:42

people. Respond to things based

56:44

on the forces in their own contacts

56:47

with, we do things because of what is around us on

56:49

a daily basis. Not what

56:51

was around us. Five weeks ago,

56:54

when some? In guy I've never met before, yelled

56:56

at me that's I can have a lasting effect

56:58

on behavior, yeah, I mean, there are

57:00

some sack camps now that have been operating

57:02

were recently that incorporate.

57:04

More. assertive except, and

57:07

celebrate your body kind of stuff but

57:09

also are still focused on weight loss,

57:11

but I actually read a great book

57:13

about more recent SAT camps

57:16

written by. A sociology professor named Laura

57:18

Backstrom it's called Weighty Problems,

57:21

a number of the campers that she talked to this book

57:23

came out in two thousand and eighteen so presumably this. Is

57:25

like pretty, recent spoke really highly

57:27

of their time at. fat camp and she

57:29

also was like but also they

57:31

are sort of being taught the is deeply

57:33

conflicting messages about like appreciate

57:36

your body and embrace It is it is, but also change

57:38

it as much as possible right now it's

57:40

habit of like and adapt to keep with the Times

57:43

kind of thing, but without

57:45

really reckoning with the like inherit

57:47

deep contradictions and those messages

57:49

that's lie.

57:50

Cognitive dissonance to have between kayaking

57:53

and archery totally

57:55

essentially her sort of primary critique

57:57

she was like, so now they're just getting can.

58:00

Quitting messages before I, the instruction

58:02

was clear, it was impossible, fruit

58:04

clear. The and her argument

58:06

was she was, like, actually think these conflicting messages

58:09

can be as damaging or more so

58:11

because you're supposed to both love your

58:13

body and same shit. The

58:16

heat it's and rejected but also act

58:18

like you love it.

58:19

If. You don't that go with

58:21

some consenting or that, like, if

58:24

use mom like on that, if

58:26

like adults exactly

58:28

that camp mom that vaginal some

58:30

on to camp and that mom. Camp

58:32

some or on fat consenting that fat

58:35

that camp maintenance or go don't camp

58:37

don't yeah,

58:41

level with you whatever vaginal

58:44

eggs yeah exactly use vaginal

58:46

eggs mom. or

58:48

consenting adults on some level to that stuff

58:50

maintenance fat do don't go

58:52

to fat camp do use eggs