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for details. I'm

2:13

just a small Uruguayan

2:15

in Montevideo. They are all speaking

2:17

one of the top celebrities

2:20

in the US, the biggest country in

2:22

the world and it's

2:25

so nice. It's wonderful for you to come on. Hey

2:40

everybody, welcome to Literally. It's me, Rob Lowe.

2:42

Today we have Nando

2:45

Parrado on the show.

2:47

Nando Parrado is

2:50

one of the Uruguayan rugby

2:52

team members who crashed in

2:54

the Andes in 1972 and for 72 days survived.

2:56

Eventually they all had to eat

3:04

and used their

3:07

fallen comrades as food. He

3:11

then, with one other man, hiked out

3:14

of the Andes mountains and

3:16

eventually found help. It's

3:19

a very famous story. It's been documented in many

3:21

books. Currently the

3:24

movie Society of the Snow is

3:26

out and is nominated for an Oscar

3:29

and is one of the best movies I've ever seen

3:32

and this man's

3:34

story, it's to say it, it

3:37

defies words. This is a doozy.

3:39

Pull up a seat. Fernando Parrado.

3:50

Well, thank you for coming

3:52

on the show. I mean, the journey

3:55

that has brought us here together today is beyond...

4:00

imagining, wouldn't you say? Yeah,

4:02

I think the

4:05

journey that has brought me to be here,

4:07

I shouldn't be sitting down in this chair.

4:10

I shouldn't be speaking to you. I

4:13

shouldn't be alive. I shouldn't

4:16

have a second part

4:18

of my only life, but

4:20

I'm here. Let's

4:23

make the best of it and enjoy

4:25

the time that we have to be together,

4:28

because time is for me

4:30

the most important thing. Time doesn't come back.

4:32

That's the biggest richness

4:34

that you can have time. At

4:38

the darkest moments

4:41

on the mountain, my sense is,

4:43

and I watched the movie last night, and

4:45

I've read some of your quotes over the

4:47

years, there were many times where

4:49

you thought you were dead. And

4:52

once you die like

4:55

that, you accept death. You

4:58

have accepted its inevitability and

5:00

that it's upon you. When you

5:02

get life, then, how

5:05

does it change your view of

5:07

life? You know, I

5:09

died many times there. I died on

5:11

a plane crash. I died of injuries.

5:14

I died of suffocation. I died of

5:17

being too exhausted. I

5:20

died of having

5:22

any chance of

5:25

crossing those mountains. And I

5:27

don't know why I did it. I'm

5:29

here. And I

5:32

came back to a different world. I

5:35

thought that the world would be different when I came

5:37

back. And you know, when you die, what happens when

5:40

you die? I came back. I resurrected. You

5:43

know, I came back almost three months after being dead.

5:46

My photograph was on the mantelpiece with

5:48

my mother, my sister that were also

5:50

dead. And I came back. And

5:52

you know what happens when you die in

5:54

the world? Nothing happens. Absolutely

5:57

nothing. The world keeps on going. Cars

5:59

are on. on the street, people on the

6:01

supermarkets, and I was dead. You

6:03

know, how can girls live without me? How

6:05

can people go to the beach? How can

6:07

I mean, I'm dead. And

6:10

that's a, it woke me up.

6:12

It told me that I was not the center of

6:14

the world and I would never be. So

6:18

I came back from the dead and

6:21

the world kept on going. So

6:25

when I see people that are full of, uh,

6:28

of themselves, I've met a

6:30

lot of celebrities, you know,

6:32

sports stars, politicians, you

6:34

know, royal families, whatever. And

6:38

I look at them and say, should they know that

6:40

they die and nothing happens? Absolutely

6:42

nothing happens. So

6:44

I, I was

6:46

very, uh, lucky, very

6:48

lucky that my father was a man

6:51

with a great common sense and he

6:53

said, Nando, the day I arrived back

6:55

home after my family

6:57

had died, I resurrected and he said,

6:59

Nando, we cannot modify the past. There's

7:02

no way we cannot do that,

7:04

but let's not lose the second part

7:06

of our only life. Let's

7:08

remember. Let's remember.

7:11

Let's remember with love, with

7:13

tenderness, but let's not suffer

7:15

all our lives because of what happened.

7:18

Bad things happen in life. No,

7:21

many people, there are wars,

7:23

illnesses, you know, tragedies, accidents.

7:26

Why should we be different? Uh,

7:29

we were stuck with this story. He

7:31

said, but let's not lose

7:34

what's left. How does

7:36

one not let a

7:38

tragedy define them? There

7:41

are people and we all have seen them, read about

7:43

them. Maybe we have some in our lives where

7:45

they never can get truly beyond

7:49

whatever that tragedy

7:51

is. What they're

7:53

a victim of this, they're a victim of

7:55

that or something. Somebody did something bad to

7:57

them or they had whatever it is. They

8:00

look at the find them and and and. What?

8:03

Can what do you think? The hallmark of somebody

8:05

who who moves? I didn't know if we are

8:07

the friends. Provident. North

8:10

Americans? Europeans? The Germans

8:12

I know Danish, Canadians

8:14

or we're South Americans.

8:16

We have maybe a

8:19

different education, Maybe a

8:21

be friends family. A.

8:25

Tides. Barnes very

8:27

very very Sides. In

8:29

the U S E gonna lead many places

8:31

in the world. When. The kids

8:33

finish high school, they go to college,

8:36

and they. Only. See their families

8:38

once a year or twice a year, right?

8:41

We. Kept leaving this a small country we

8:43

live in our homes I believe in in

8:45

my home for. Forty. Five

8:47

years. It. On my father lives.

8:50

Two. Blocks away, we kept a

8:52

very tight bond. And.

8:55

Maybe we accepts? That.

8:57

Life. Has a tragedy

9:00

when you come back from are

9:02

very strange and difficult survival experience

9:04

would be the war would be

9:06

an accident, could be illness. Ah,

9:10

In your life will be divided into

9:12

before and after that tries to the.

9:15

I'm. There is a very dark

9:17

place in between. An Id. Ids

9:20

in your power to get out of

9:22

there. May. Be the help

9:25

that you. I've. Got from

9:27

my family for so many years

9:29

has made to be crossed that

9:31

blacks. Bridge. More

9:34

than. If you leave that

9:36

alone v us alone. I

9:38

know we're very family died. Bonds.

9:42

Seer. And. The. Thanks.

9:45

To my father's thanks to. My.

9:47

Friends I was able to go

9:49

ahead denotes idea mourn. I.

9:52

Can be vs seeds are you. Maybe.

9:54

I'm very pragmatic like my father. I

9:56

never had a nightmare. i never

9:58

had a bad dream

10:00

about the end is even from the first

10:02

night and i don't do

10:04

i love that i don't want to know why. Why

10:08

i mean i'm so happy

10:10

that i am alive i've spoken to shoulders

10:12

that came back from the war and

10:15

maybe in their platoon. Five

10:17

six or eight men died in the war

10:19

and they came back alive maybe

10:22

without a finger or without a hand

10:24

but they are alive and i say

10:27

you should rejoice that you're alive. Don't

10:31

lose the second part of your life thinking

10:34

why did i survive and my friends didn't

10:37

i mean there's no answer to that. There

10:39

are questions that will never have an answer and

10:41

you keep looking for answers and you get inside

10:44

a very strange place and

10:46

you need a shrink yes

10:48

when you think of. Your

10:51

friends that you you lost those many years

10:53

ago on the mountain a

10:56

how often do you think of them and

10:58

what are your thoughts. We were

11:00

very tight friends i knew most

11:03

of them since first grade in

11:05

my school we went through the

11:07

same school high school

11:09

together. The

11:12

best sport sport men

11:14

started to play ragby we played ragby in

11:16

high school then on the national. League

11:20

and we went out on the

11:22

weekends with the girls

11:24

and to the parties and we were living

11:27

our lives you know we were nineteen twenty

11:29

what do you do when you're nineteen twenty.

11:31

Yeah you're you're good luck you're good luck

11:33

and you know you're going to do your

11:36

thing we are not university

11:38

professor so we are leaving our life.

11:41

One of my friends her parents

11:43

were divorced under a very strange circumstances so

11:45

he lived in my home like three or

11:47

four days a week he was like my

11:50

brother he did that for two years he

11:52

died beside me on the plane. He

11:54

was sitting beside me on the next seat and

11:58

i remember them with. under with

12:00

friendship and I know

12:03

and I understand that at some point

12:05

we were all on the same boat.

12:08

You know, when the plane crashed, which

12:10

is a miracle that of the 45 people, 29 survived. Of

12:15

those 29, 24 without a

12:18

single scratch, which is a

12:20

miracle. There's no way. You

12:22

can fall for a motorcycle, crash on a car.

12:26

29 guys survived. The only plane

12:28

crash in history where there are survivors

12:30

when a plane crashes are cruising speed and

12:32

cruising altitude. You know, the

12:34

physical forces that are on chain there

12:36

are non survivable and the

12:39

guys who survived the impact,

12:41

we were already bonded before the

12:43

crash. So we

12:46

knew that we were on

12:48

a very difficult situation,

12:52

impossible situation. We were

12:54

dead men walking and

12:56

because we knew each other so much, this is

12:59

a story that cleverness,

13:02

you know, or courage wouldn't have saved

13:04

us. And I have

13:06

to tell you, love and trust

13:08

saved us. Love

13:10

to each other, trust into each other beyond

13:13

what you can do on

13:16

a normal life. You trusted your

13:18

friends with your life over there. And

13:21

that saved us. We trusted each other.

13:23

So when I look back and

13:26

I see that eight, nine of the ones who

13:28

survived the plane crash are not here with me,

13:30

I could have been one of them. Nobody

13:33

chose. You know, when we made

13:35

a pact and we embraced ourselves over there, we

13:38

were on the same boat. Nobody

13:41

knew who would survive. So I

13:43

remember them with candor, with

13:45

friendship, with love. And

13:48

I also know I could have been one of them. And

13:51

because I wasn't one of them, I

13:53

have a family now. I created life.

13:55

I have daughters. I have grandchildren. They

13:58

wouldn't be alive. that

14:00

what I did. So it's

14:03

life. It's sad. It's like

14:05

when you go to the war. Why

14:07

do some guys die and why do someones

14:10

live? It's God will, it's destiny,

14:12

it's life and death. Nobody

14:15

knows. And you believe in

14:17

the end it is

14:20

unknowable. It's unknowable. It's

14:22

unknowable. Nobody

14:24

can know who would live

14:27

and who would die on these circumstances.

14:30

I have a couple of practical

14:32

questions having watched the movie. Why

14:34

did the plane crash? Was it weather? Was

14:37

it a malfunction? That was very unclear to

14:39

me and I'm curious. Do you even know?

14:42

Yeah. So many

14:44

studies have been done here and

14:47

by the European Air Force and

14:49

engineers and flight

14:52

experts. This was a

14:55

combination. Like every plane accident is

14:57

a combination of factors. No. The

15:00

plane is a plane designed, created,

15:02

built to fly on flatlands.

15:05

On the Netherlands or in Africa, it's

15:08

a twin turboprop engine plane. Not

15:10

very powerful. Full of

15:13

people, full of passengers,

15:15

full of cargo, equipment, everything over

15:17

there. Flying over the most

15:20

incredible and highest mountains in

15:23

South America in bad

15:25

weather with an inexperienced

15:28

crew. So if you add all those

15:30

things, yes, I mean, what's the

15:32

result? The result is that the

15:34

inexperienced crew flying on bad weather on

15:36

an underpowered plane

15:39

crashed because it was a pilot

15:41

mistake. They thought they were over

15:44

chilly. They didn't take into

15:46

account the headwind and everything. And

15:48

they descended in the middle of

15:50

mountains when they thought there would be

15:53

like 150 miles further west. Pilot

15:55

mistake. And you add a

15:58

lot of things behind that. It's an incredible story.

16:00

I remember reading the what is

16:03

it Paul's peer reads book? For people

16:05

to read. Yeah. Alive. Alive. I read

16:07

it the year it

16:09

came out. So I've

16:12

been familiar with it for a long time.

16:15

The notion that you were unconscious in

16:17

the impact and that

16:20

being in the cold saved you

16:22

from your brain injury, isn't that

16:24

what you think

16:26

today? I was probably of

16:28

the survivors after the

16:31

initial plane crash. One of

16:33

the had the biggest injuries.

16:35

My head was broken in four places. What

16:38

the size of a basketball and I

16:40

didn't have any physical

16:42

motions. I was covered with blood. They thought

16:45

I was dead. So they pulled me with

16:47

into the pile of

16:49

the dead bodies over there. No.

16:52

And the cold by interest

16:54

were non survival. Non

16:57

survival. All the experts they scanned

17:00

my head afterwards and they said it's

17:02

a miracle. But

17:04

nature did what science

17:06

does now. When you have

17:08

a very big head trauma, they

17:10

freeze your head so that

17:13

the brain doesn't explode. But

17:16

they don't freeze your body because you're dying. They

17:18

put a lowest temperature you can on

17:20

your brain, on your head. And they

17:22

do not hydrate you. They don't give

17:24

you any water. Nothing. My

17:27

head was on the snow. They didn't touch

17:29

me for three days. They thought I was

17:31

dead. The snow did what the

17:34

biggest and the most creative neurosurgeon

17:37

could do now. And then after

17:39

three days I started to move.

17:42

And they say, hey, Jan, it's alive. And they

17:45

pulled me from the pile and they sat me

17:47

inside the fuselage. And I

17:50

came back from a very dark place.

17:52

I was dead. Rob, I

17:54

was dead. I know what the

17:56

death is. I know I've been there. It's

17:59

black. blacker than black.

18:01

It's very black. I

18:04

could think, I'd say, I

18:07

am dead. This is dead. Finally. Black,

18:10

true black. And then

18:13

about two days later I

18:15

said, I'm dead, I'm dead. This

18:17

is dead. But I cannot be

18:19

dead because I'm thirsty. If I'm thirsty,

18:21

I needed water. I didn't

18:24

know what had happened. I couldn't see. I

18:26

couldn't open my eyes. I didn't know

18:28

where I was. It was very black,

18:31

but I was thirsty. So I

18:33

said, if I'm thirsty, I need water. I'm

18:35

alive, but where am I? I was

18:38

on a coma. I was such deep, so

18:42

profound that I didn't know

18:44

what happened. Then two days later I started

18:46

to open my eyes and

18:48

I realized something terrible had happened.

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Terms apply. Do

21:18

you remember the

21:21

first time you had enough awareness

21:24

to realize what had happened and where you

21:26

were? What was that moment like? The

21:29

first things I saw and

21:31

I listened to and I heard were

21:33

voices from my friends very close

21:36

to me, very gentle faces.

21:39

I remember very gentle eyes very

21:42

close to me. They said, Nando, can you

21:44

hear me? Nando, Nando, are

21:46

you okay? The blink crashed. We crashed.

21:49

I opened my eyes to that environment.

21:55

I couldn't really understand but I saw these faces

21:57

very close to me. two

22:00

hours later or three hours later, I saw

22:02

these cables dangling from the roof.

22:04

I said, I was not alone here.

22:08

Mama, where is my mother? And Susie and

22:10

Panchito. I mean, they were my closest human

22:13

beings in my life with my father.

22:16

And what happens? The youngest guy

22:19

was 17 there. The

22:22

average age was 19, 20. When you're

22:25

that young, death is so far away. But

22:29

these guys had an intensive course. They had buried

22:31

their friends. They had taken

22:33

out a few selects, destroyed bodies,

22:35

you know, something they never

22:38

thought they would

22:40

have done. And they said, Nando,

22:44

your mother is dead. Straight

22:46

to me. Panchito, your best friend, your

22:48

brother is dead. And

22:51

Susie, she's very badly

22:53

injured. She's laying on the floor there behind

22:55

the cockpit. So

22:58

the first physical move

23:00

that I did was crawling to my

23:02

sister. She was 18 years

23:05

old. She was 18. I remember

23:07

she had a very light dress

23:09

with flowers. And her

23:11

feet, she didn't have any shoes on.

23:15

Her feet were purple, you know, like

23:18

a violet. And

23:20

I embraced her. She couldn't move. She

23:23

couldn't speak. She could

23:25

only look at me with her eyes. She

23:28

she could only move her eyes.

23:30

Probably her injuries were so big

23:33

inside the body. I was not a doctor.

23:35

I didn't know what had

23:37

happened, but she had internal injuries. She

23:39

didn't have blood. And

23:42

I stayed with her. I put some

23:45

snow in her mouth a

23:47

few times so that she could drink water.

23:51

And I stayed with her. And that

23:53

night, I was embraced to

23:55

her. And I felt, I

23:59

felt, At one moment

24:01

that she left. You

24:04

know, like something left

24:06

her, that she died in my arms.

24:09

And you can say, no, how can you be

24:12

so without feelings?

24:16

I'm not without feelings. I

24:18

have the same feelings you have. But

24:21

the circumstances create different environments.

24:24

It was different if she died in my arms

24:26

on a car accident in the corner of

24:28

my neighborhood. She died

24:31

there. And I

24:34

couldn't cry. And

24:36

I said, Nando, what's wrong

24:38

with you? I didn't

24:40

understand myself. What's wrong with you? But

24:43

decades later, I understood

24:45

that the brain protects you. And

24:49

doesn't allow you to think I'm

24:51

going to emotional things about sorrow,

24:55

about pain, and only

24:57

focuses on survival. And

24:59

I said, if I lose, imagine,

25:01

how could I be so stupid, so

25:04

cold? And

25:07

I said, I thought, Nando, if you cry, you

25:09

will lose water. You will

25:11

lose salt. And you would need this

25:13

to survive here. So

25:16

those are the circumstances that I talk

25:18

about. Your story is just

25:22

unbelievable. I was

25:25

struck with when

25:28

the different expeditions

25:31

to the tail of the plane. I'm

25:35

a skier. I've been

25:37

in the back country. I've

25:39

hiked in mountains and been

25:41

in drifts up to my thighs in

25:43

stupid little ski resorts. And I know

25:46

how uncomfortable, how,

25:48

I mean, being at altitude, I

25:50

can't even imagine. You guys were in

25:52

loafers. And what you

25:55

had when you got on the plane in 70 degree weather, and now

25:57

it's in the God

26:00

is cold as minus 31 at night.

26:02

What was the walk like? I can't even imagine it. I've

26:10

been once to a

26:12

meeting in Aspen with

26:15

five of the best climbers in the

26:17

US. They invited me for a

26:19

meeting there with my wife. These five

26:22

guys had done all the 14,000-meter

26:24

peaks in the world. The

26:30

24,000, they had been

26:32

there and they couldn't

26:34

understand. They asked me so many questions,

26:37

so many questions. They couldn't understand. After

26:40

we spoke for about four hours because

26:42

they were fascinated and I was fascinated

26:44

of speaking with them, they

26:47

stood up and they said, let's make a toast

26:50

for the best climber in the world, the one

26:52

who has achieved what we dream of achieving. You

26:55

crossed the Andes mountain, probably

26:58

one of the biggest mountain

27:00

traverses in history, without

27:02

any equipment, without

27:05

knowledge. And you know why you did

27:07

it because of your ignorance, they said.

27:09

Had you known what you were going

27:11

to face, you wouldn't have started

27:14

because it was impossible. No

27:17

crampons, no pillage, no ropes,

27:19

no gloves. How

27:21

did you do it? I mean, it's

27:24

impossible. We know that you did it because

27:26

you are here, but

27:28

I don't think we could have done it in

27:30

the same position that

27:33

you were. No clothes,

27:35

no gloves, no crampons, no

27:37

pillage, no ice access. It

27:40

was impossible. So

27:43

the only way I can tell you, Rob, that

27:46

we did it, when I reached the

27:48

top of the first mountain and I

27:50

thought I would see a small

27:52

town, valleys. I

27:54

had this image of the valleys

27:56

in Europe with small towns in

27:58

them. You know, This is very

28:01

different. This is ragged. This is the

28:03

end is when I got to

28:05

a top and I saw one was on the other

28:07

side I knew I was dead. There's

28:09

no way it's like dropping you in the middle

28:11

of the ocean. What do you shrink to? with

28:14

no life vest no nothing what do

28:16

you shrink to so I understood

28:19

there that I Saw

28:21

in my mind a

28:23

big gate a big door you

28:27

know and It's that

28:30

it's an invisible door an

28:32

invisible gate that you cross into

28:34

death When you

28:36

cross it you're dead so Nothing

28:40

matters. Whatever you do. You're already

28:42

dead and I told Robert

28:44

Roberto. We're dead. Let's go I won't

28:46

stop until my face hits the ice.

28:48

I won't stop until I'm dead I

28:53

He said we have done so many things together

28:55

let's Let's die together

28:57

and he was looking into my eyes.

28:59

Let's die together and we

29:01

started and eight days later We

29:05

found Why

29:07

did we do it? I don't know but if you ran

29:09

the iron man three

29:12

times in a row And

29:14

you get tired you stop and you go home Here

29:18

you stop you're dead If

29:20

you stop you're dead, there's no let's

29:22

rest for half a day. No Let's

29:25

go keep on going keep on going keep

29:28

on going one two ten fifteen sixteen eighteen

29:31

hours non-stop climbing falling

29:33

snow ice crevasses And

29:36

I look back and I say no though Rob

29:39

even now I Cannot

29:42

answer that Why

29:44

I don't know Maybe my

29:46

father was a lighthouse. I wanted to go

29:49

back to him and I thought a lot

29:51

about him all Through

29:53

this gruesome trek. I

29:56

thought a lot about my father and I prayed

29:58

a lot those two things I

30:00

prayed Hail Mary's, I'm Catholic, as

30:03

a mantra in order not

30:05

to think what was ahead. Because

30:09

I didn't know what was ahead. I

30:12

didn't know if it was one day or 20 days. I

30:16

didn't know if I would last two days or

30:18

I would die under the one week

30:21

from there. Was the was

30:23

the the lack of knowledge terrifying

30:26

or liberating or both? Because

30:30

I've heard I've heard that a

30:33

human being not knowing when literally getting at

30:35

the point where they don't know when they're

30:37

going to eat again is among

30:39

the most terrifying things. So

30:42

I wonder where we all are petrified of

30:44

what we don't know. And but

30:46

I also kind of think maybe at a certain point,

30:50

maybe it's liberating. What's

30:52

your thought on that? It's an

30:54

interesting question, but I

30:57

think it liberates

31:00

you from the pressure of

31:03

succeeding. Right.

31:06

Yes. Whatever

31:09

happens, I'm doing

31:11

all I can. It goes back to it

31:14

goes back to what you were saying about, in a

31:17

way, ignorance. Yeah. It's like, I'm just going to

31:19

do it. And I don't know any better. And

31:22

because you have you have plans in your life

31:24

for anybody, any human being

31:26

in this planet, they have plans and they

31:29

look into the future and and

31:32

if they don't arrive to that place in

31:34

the future where they thought they would be.

31:38

They think they have failed. But

31:41

not being alive. It's

31:43

already a triumph and

31:45

fighting for what you want. It's a

31:47

triumph, but not achieving what you want.

31:50

It's not failure because not

31:52

everybody achieves what they want. All

31:55

those slogans you can do it. Yeah, you can

31:57

do it. Everything is possible if you try. The

32:02

power is inside you. I

32:05

mean, things are

32:07

impossible sometimes. Things

32:09

are impossible. I'm fascinated

32:11

also with the movie. It's so, so amazing. And

32:16

we'll talk about that in a little bit

32:18

because I want everybody to see it. And

32:21

how just trying

32:23

to sleep in the cold,

32:25

it feels like you never slept. Did

32:30

you ever sleep or was it just more

32:32

like passing out? I just don't understand in

32:34

those temperatures, in those clothes. And again, you're

32:36

in clothes you wore to get on until

32:38

you find the stuff in the tail section,

32:40

which is, thank God for that. But

32:43

that's weeks into your

32:46

time. I mean, you don't

32:48

sleep on a bed. No,

32:51

for sure. It's very tight. And

32:53

at the beginning, there are 29

32:55

people on the same spot. It's

32:58

not very big. So one is on

33:00

top of the other one. And it's

33:02

very cold. It's very cold.

33:05

And you shiver and you're embraced

33:07

with somebody with a face very close and

33:09

you say, come on, breathe, breathe. Give me

33:11

your breath. You were always

33:15

very certain that

33:17

you would do whatever it took for you

33:19

to survive when others weren't

33:22

willing to feed.

33:24

They were not going to eat. How

33:26

did you come to that persuasion? And

33:29

I've been thinking a lot about

33:32

that. And you could almost...

33:34

I think shame is one of

33:36

the most dangerous things that

33:39

human beings can carry with them.

33:42

And I think that you could make a

33:44

case that those

33:47

that couldn't, wouldn't do

33:49

it were worried about the shame of it, which

33:51

eventually would have killed them. Yeah. You

33:53

know, shame is a fantastic

33:56

word. And you should have

33:58

shame if you do something that... allows

34:02

you to be seen as somebody who

34:04

has done something, that

34:08

somebody could use that word. What

34:11

we did was the most beautiful

34:13

thing you can imagine. This

34:15

is 51 years ago. Transplants

34:18

were in their

34:20

infancy at that age. Now

34:22

everybody has a transplant of

34:25

any kind. Over there, it

34:27

was very at the beginning. And

34:30

we did a pact. You

34:32

told about anger a few minutes ago. Anger

34:35

is the most terrible fear of

34:38

the human being. Not

34:40

knowing when you are going to it

34:42

again, it's the most primal, incredible fear

34:44

a human being can develop in their

34:47

minds. As

34:50

we are the biggest experts in

34:52

this subject in the world, interviewed

34:54

by psychologists, hospitals, writers,

34:56

professors, we know about this

34:59

very, very much. And

35:01

what happens when there's

35:03

no food inside? Being over there

35:06

stranded in the Andes, it's like being in

35:08

Venus, Mars, the moon.

35:10

There's absolutely nothing. Absolutely

35:13

nothing. And you will never

35:15

understand the deep anxiety of

35:17

anger until your body

35:19

starts to feed upon itself. Because

35:22

you breathe, you move your

35:24

arms, you walk. Where does

35:26

that energy come from if you

35:28

don't eat from your body? So

35:31

you eat your fat, your muscles,

35:34

your body eats them. Then you feel

35:36

that your liver is going and you

35:39

feel you're auto-consuming yourself. And

35:42

all that information goes to your brain. You

35:45

know, all that information goes to your brain.

35:48

And your brain says, Nando,

35:51

you have to survive. Survive an instinct.

35:53

You don't want to die. You're

35:56

too young. You don't want to die. So

35:58

when I saw that, I was like, But the

36:01

situation was absolutely irreversible, that there

36:03

was no way out

36:05

after you've spent a week without

36:07

eating anything and the helicopters didn't

36:09

come. And then the radio told

36:11

us that the search was

36:13

abandoned and we were abandoned to

36:16

die. We were dead men

36:18

walking, dead men walking. And

36:22

I told Carlitos, he was the youngest guy sleeping

36:25

with me one night very tight, shaking

36:27

both of us because of the cold. And

36:30

I said, Carlitos, I'm going

36:32

to try to get out of here. Your

36:34

crisis. I

36:37

have to wait for the summer. But

36:39

the summer is two months away. But

36:42

when the snow melts and the

36:44

ice melts, I can climb these mountains.

36:46

What are you going to do? I'm going to eat. What

36:49

are you going to eat? We have

36:51

proteins here. We have the dead boys of

36:53

our friends. They're already

36:56

dead. The soul has left. And

36:59

that's what we're going to do. Maybe

37:02

I was the first one to bring it

37:04

out to Carlitos, but I knew, and

37:07

later speaking with all my friends, that they were

37:09

all going through that process in

37:11

their minds. Because when

37:13

there is only one solution, there's only

37:15

one. When there are

37:17

two, you can pick between the two. When

37:19

there's only one. And

37:22

we made a beautiful pact.

37:25

We put our hands together, 29 guys,

37:27

and said, if I die, you have

37:29

the permission to use my body. So you can go

37:31

back to our families and tell them how much we

37:34

miss them, how much we love them. And

37:37

at that moment, all the

37:39

guys who died and all the guys who survived were

37:41

on the same instant

37:43

in this infinity of life.

37:47

Nobody knew who would live or die. So

37:51

we made it back with our

37:53

conscience, with our hearts, with our

37:55

friendship going forward. And

37:59

this pact. was the beginning,

38:01

decades later, of

38:04

us working with the government in our

38:06

country. So

38:08

there is a law now in

38:10

Uruguay that every Uruguayan is

38:13

a donor. If you

38:15

don't want to donate your organs,

38:17

you have to make a paper

38:20

with an artery. We have

38:22

saved more than 700 lives in

38:25

these years with

38:27

this law. So

38:29

people look at us, oh, these guys who

38:31

use their friends with. Yeah, but

38:34

that's the first layer of

38:37

the story. How many more

38:39

layers are below that? How

38:42

many lives have been saved? How

38:45

many lives are alive because

38:47

we came out of there? Our

38:50

sons, daughters, grandchildren, 16 guys

38:53

came out. Now we are more than 180. That's

38:57

right. It is

38:59

true. In those days,

39:02

organ donor, I don't even think it

39:04

was on anyone's radar being an organ donor

39:06

at all. No. I

39:08

mean, it was something

39:10

that was not in the news, not

39:12

in the way

39:15

people lived on a

39:17

civilized world. Maybe

39:19

only doctors, after an

39:21

accident, and a body could be a donor.

39:23

Sometimes they didn't ask and they say, let's

39:27

take this heart or this, and

39:29

maybe we can save a life. But

39:31

being a donor, it's

39:34

a fantastic thing. Organ donation

39:36

is done on a very dark

39:38

moment, silent moment, and a hard

39:41

moment, always. Always,

39:43

because the donor has a family also,

39:45

and the family is there and says,

39:47

okay, this beautiful human

39:49

being that died because of an

39:51

accident, because of something, is

39:53

going to give life to another human being. So

39:57

organ donation is fantastic. eBay

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Terms apply. Have

41:01

you ever told a friend? Oh, I'm fine.

41:04

When you really felt just

41:06

so overwhelmed or sent a

41:08

text. Can't sleep. Are

41:11

you awake? When you couldn't find

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for 24 seven free confidential

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support. You don't have to hide

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how you feel. Text, call,

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or chat anytime. Nanda,

41:41

what was it like in

41:43

the movie? It's depicted

41:45

as you are at a stream, you're getting some

41:47

water and you look

41:49

up and there is the

41:51

shepherd. Is that what

41:53

it was? Literally an

41:56

apparition appearing. Listen,

41:58

the society of this novel. which is a

42:00

majestic movie. For me, the movie of the

42:03

decade, not because of our story, because of

42:07

how beautiful it is done, how

42:09

strong it is. It's epic, it's

42:12

sad, it's tragic, but at the

42:14

end, it's elegant on a tragedy,

42:17

which is very difficult to put elegance

42:19

on a tragedy. And

42:22

this is because of the story and

42:24

a great director like Juan Antonio Valjona.

42:27

So this is a movie that goes beyond. It

42:29

has been seen by more than 150 million

42:32

people. I have emails

42:34

of people that have seen it six

42:36

times, eight times, one, I

42:39

mean, a group of girls, they say, we have seen

42:41

it more than 30 times. And

42:43

they were small girls because

42:46

this movie brings hope to young

42:48

people now. Young

42:50

people want everything so fast,

42:52

success soon fast. And if

42:54

they don't get that success

42:56

very fast, they fall

42:58

into depression. And I'm

43:00

useless. I'm not what I

43:03

should be. I mean, things take

43:05

time, believe in yourself, but things

43:07

take time. And this

43:10

movie brings love, brings hope

43:13

to people and shows

43:15

that you have to fight for

43:18

things in life. So

43:20

it's just being, there's a clamor, there's

43:22

something in the world about this

43:24

movie that's fantastic. I

43:28

was shocked by the majesty

43:31

of it. It's like to have

43:34

the scope that you're talking about,

43:36

the majesty, and also at the

43:41

end of the day, it's people trapped in a fuselage

43:43

on a mountain. So it's also very tiny. And

43:45

yet it's also so huge. And

43:49

the technical aspects of doing it, of being in

43:51

the snow with just things you don't think about,

43:54

unless you make movies, is how

43:56

did you guys get up on the, how they

43:58

put the actors up on the ridge? with

44:00

no snow tracks behind them, or in front

44:02

of them, I should say. I mean, you

44:05

know, if you do more than

44:07

two takes, you have all of your footprints from

44:09

the previous takes. I always think

44:11

about that scene, and I think you

44:13

thought the same thing. You know, they're

44:15

walking on the ridge, and they're coming,

44:18

but there's pristine white snow

44:20

in front of them. Yes,

44:23

that ridge, that shot of the

44:26

ridge, of you and

44:28

Roberto, who are walking on the

44:30

ridge is unbelievable. There are a

44:32

lot of unbelievable shots. It was

44:34

shot on the

44:36

exact same places that we crossed.

44:39

So that's... No, I didn't know

44:41

that, really? Exactly the same. I

44:43

mean, Ballona is the master of

44:46

reality. Even

44:48

anything that's on the movie is

44:51

perfect, and it was shot in

44:53

the under the exact on the

44:55

maintenance valley on the ridge that

44:58

we crossed with Roberto. Exactly. I

45:01

didn't know that. I had no idea. Well, that makes

45:03

it even more incredible. It's

45:06

shot exactly there. So that

45:09

gives an impression of what

45:13

we really went through. It was

45:15

not easy. And I

45:17

have to be sincere with you. I

45:21

think when somebody does something without

45:25

wanting to do it, and you look back

45:28

in the times, only

45:31

you know how much took you to do

45:33

that. Only you know,

45:35

Rob, how much it took you to

45:37

be there, sitting, creating

45:40

this podcast. It wasn't

45:42

easy, if you look back. For

45:45

me, it wasn't easy, but I cannot

45:47

understand even now

45:50

how I did it. You

45:52

know, even now. But

45:55

I'm here, so it was reasonable

45:57

in a way. I

46:00

am so glad that you're here, not

46:03

because I'm glad that you're

46:05

alive, but I'm glad that

46:07

you're able to share your message

46:10

with survivors because I can only

46:13

imagine. I can only imagine how

46:16

important that is to people and

46:18

you're so articulate about it. And

46:21

this movie I urge everybody

46:23

to see. It's

46:26

just spectacular and knowing that it's shot

46:28

in the exact same place is just

46:31

unbelievable. You know, I'm a television

46:35

producer. I produce documentaries. I produce

46:37

TV programs, all of that. And

46:40

I don't want to be over

46:42

the top. No, but

46:45

I have told some of my friends and

46:47

some people go to the movies or watch

46:49

it because this is the best movie

46:51

you will see in your life. You will watch

46:54

it in life and say, ah, come on. There are so many

46:56

movies. And they come back to me and

46:58

say, you were right. You were

47:00

right. So it's a

47:02

good movie. It's

47:04

an epic. And you know what? Just before

47:07

we go, there are so many tiny

47:09

grace notes in it that are so

47:11

subtle and nuanced. The

47:13

looks between all of you where

47:17

it's clear what you're thinking, but nobody's

47:19

speaking. There's that little

47:21

moment when you have been saved

47:24

and you're in the little village hut

47:26

and the horses look at you

47:29

and smell you and don't want to

47:31

be around you guys. That's

47:34

I mean, that's an amazing and they don't make

47:36

a big meal out of it. They don't even

47:38

really explain it. But you know, but you know

47:40

what it is. It's

47:45

it's it's just it's a mark.

47:47

The director plays a lot with

47:49

movements and with the looks and

47:52

the way people look into things. And

47:55

even I didn't notice that until he

47:57

explained me and I watched

47:59

it. on the second time I saw

48:01

the movie, is when we are

48:03

at the top of the mountains over there. And

48:07

I tell Roberto, okay, you

48:09

see those mountains very far away, we have to

48:12

get there. And the

48:14

director makes the actor,

48:16

Roberto's actor, to look at me,

48:18

no, to the mountains. And

48:21

he says that explains that Roberto, when he's

48:23

looking at me, he says, this guy

48:26

is, I mean, I

48:28

have to go with him. You know?

48:30

It's a very powerful, that's the

48:32

most powerful, and by the way,

48:34

and I absolutely noticed that, him

48:38

looking at your character,

48:41

saying, basically agreeing to go with you,

48:43

is just

48:46

spectacular. It's, those actors are

48:49

spectacular. Thank

48:53

you, Rob. We

48:55

could speak for hours about this. Hours,

48:58

I know. Please

49:01

come to Los Angeles. Please come to Los

49:03

Angeles. I would love to take you to

49:05

dinner, and I'd love to get to know

49:07

you better. I'm going to Los Angeles next

49:09

week. Oh, that's, by the

49:11

way, that's my, one of my favorite parties,

49:13

things of this, is like, you

49:15

are clawing your way out of the Andes,

49:17

and eventually it leads you to the red

49:20

carpet of the Oscars. You can't

49:22

say what? What? What? I

49:24

mean, you

49:26

know, I

49:28

love the second part of my only life.

49:30

I suffered a lot. I suffered a lot

49:33

more than anyone can think. And I've

49:35

been blessed with a lot of consolations.

49:38

And I've been blessed with a second

49:40

part of my life, which I created.

49:42

I created this script of

49:45

my second life. I

49:47

created that script, doing my

49:49

sports with my father, my businesses,

49:51

my television companies, my racing

49:54

cars, my wife, my

49:56

daughters, my grandchildren. I

49:59

created that. and

50:03

being on the red

50:05

carpet at the Venice Film Festival,

50:07

no, for the first time, where

50:10

the movie received the biggest

50:12

applause in the history of

50:15

the film festival in 50 years. Eight,

50:18

nine minutes non-stop, it's a big

50:20

applause. I was walking

50:22

through the red carpet with my wife and I said, enjoy

50:26

this. I mean, we are here. There

50:29

are people that are not here. We

50:31

are here because of something. So this will

50:33

not happen again. So enjoy this. So we

50:35

enjoyed that walk. And I

50:38

told her later, you know, yesterday

50:40

George Clooney walked this red

50:42

carpet and the

50:44

day before Brad Pitt walked in this red

50:46

carpet and we are walking here. So

50:50

let's grab those moments of

50:52

life. Keep on creating memories,

50:54

you know, because they belong to

50:56

us. Thank you so much for

51:00

taking again the time to be

51:02

with us today. And we

51:04

will be cheering you on for

51:06

the Oscars. I

51:09

have my fingers crossed and

51:11

it will be great to see you. I'll be looking for

51:13

you on the red carpet. That's for sure. And I'll be

51:15

looking for you as our paths

51:17

cross again someday. Thank you. This was fantastic.

51:19

If you ever travel to

51:21

South America, this is a beautiful

51:23

country. I would love to get there one

51:26

day for sure. Even jewels. Awesome.

51:28

Thank you, Rob. Thank you so much,

51:30

brother. Thank you. That was great. Ciao ciao. Unbelievable.

51:43

What a man. What an energy. What

51:45

a life force. What an honor it was to

51:48

have Nando visit with us today, right?

51:50

I mean, I hope you take away

51:52

from it everything

51:55

that I have. The inspiration

51:57

and the warmth and the.

52:00

the glow of the human spirit. It's

52:02

an amazing thing to behold. Thank

52:04

you for tuning in to Literally, and

52:06

we will be back with more next

52:09

week. See you then. You've

52:12

been listening to Literally with Rob

52:14

Lowe, produced by me, Sean Doherty,

52:16

with help from associate producers, Sarah

52:18

Baguard, and research by Alyssa Graul.

52:21

Engineering and mixing by Joanna Samuel.

52:23

Our executive producers are Rob Lowe

52:26

for Low Profile, Nick Liao, Adam

52:28

Saxon, Jeff Ross for Team Coco,

52:30

and Colin Anderson for Stitcher. Booking

52:32

by Deirdre Dodd, music by Devin

52:35

Bryant. Special thanks to Hidden

52:37

City Studios. Thanks for listening. We'll see

52:39

you next time on Literally.

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