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sixty nine. I wanna

1:01

talk about the first time I met you in

1:03

the circumstance. And you can tell me if you

1:05

even remember because I remember fifth. Do you really?

1:07

Oh, the very first time we met. Oh, yeah.

1:21

Hey, everybody. Welcome to literally Wow.

1:24

Today, LeVar Burton

1:26

is here. If you've been listening to my show,

1:28

you know that, you know, I've been doing

1:30

this a long time and have met

1:32

a lot of people and but my

1:35

my meeting of LaVar Burton and how far

1:37

we go back is kinda extraordinary.

1:40

So when I heard he was coming in today, I was

1:43

pretty psyched because I haven't seen him in forever.

1:46

And I don't wanna make forever go

1:48

any longer than it has to. So

1:50

let's get started. Okay.

1:57

So I am Probably

2:01

thirteen. Right. I'm

2:03

at Malibu Park Junior High.

2:05

Okay. And

2:08

I wanna be an actor. Right?

2:11

Fresh from Ohio. I don't know nothing

2:13

but nothing. But I'm in

2:15

all the school plays. I'm in I'm in every

2:18

everything. Talent show. And

2:21

there is for sure the

2:23

most talented girl in the school was

2:25

one of my best friends, Hollywood

2:28

Robinson. Right? And Hollywood sing

2:31

Desperado. And Lindoronstadt

2:33

would come -- Yeah. -- and sit in the

2:35

front row -- Yeah. -- and listen to

2:37

Holly's St. Desperato. Holly's mother

2:41

And why Holly's mother isn't more celebrated

2:44

than she is is kind of a I

2:46

just I just don't understand.

2:49

She's like the Zelig. Of

2:51

of of modern show business.

2:53

Boris Robinson. Yeah. And and and she knows

2:55

LeVar body. Dolores

2:57

Robinson I mean,

2:59

single African American mom --

3:01

Yep. -- raising two kids -- Most are from

3:04

Philadelphia -- Yeah. -- from Philly -- -- drove her

3:06

green Volvo station wagon across country.

3:09

With a dream. Yeah. So

3:12

and she is now I'm so unsophisticated at

3:14

this time that I don't really understand that

3:17

much about Hollywood or what Dolores was

3:19

or does, but she was a manager. Right.

3:23

And I was her only client.

3:25

At the time. Was she she

3:28

I would see around and then she stopped

3:30

me in the hallway. I can see

3:32

it like it was yesterday, the upstairs outdoor

3:34

hallway in the history

3:37

building. And she said,

3:39

I want you to meet someone because

3:42

next week He will

3:44

be the most famous person in the world.

3:49

And it was you. The week

3:51

before roots came out, wow. That's

3:53

a good story. And I remember

3:57

I just I mean, I just remember and she

3:59

was right. I mean, Think about think

4:01

about it. I mean, it's like well,

4:04

those are the the days when that could

4:06

happen. Yeah. We're literally over

4:09

truly overnight over overnight. You'd obviously

4:11

work. You'd always have a No. No.

4:13

Nothing. No. Roots was my first professional

4:16

audition. Wait. What?

4:19

Yeah. I was a

4:21

sophomore at USC studying theater

4:23

with an intention to graduate with a a batch refiners

4:26

degree and moved to New York and hustled my way out of

4:28

the stage. That was my intent and intention. And

4:31

I auditioned for roots in early

4:38

seventy six. Oh

4:40

my gosh. Early seventy

4:42

six. And that

4:45

process went through the

4:47

end of of March. I

4:49

did my first main stage role at USC.

4:52

I played Ali Hakim, in

4:55

in Oklahoma. I

4:58

played Will Park. View

5:00

power How are you? Oh,

5:02

I'm fine. How are you doing, sir? I'm glad

5:04

to meet you. Oh, wow. We

5:07

need take this on the road. Didn't they call him a pedaling

5:10

man? Yes. That's the Aido Annie called

5:12

him the Pedaling man. She sure did. Aido

5:14

Annie. Yeah. It was Will Parker's girlfriend. Indeed.

5:16

Indeed. She was. Madeline Smith

5:18

played played Edo

5:20

Annie in in the USC production

5:22

who went on to to play opposite John

5:25

Frovolta. In in

5:28

what was the cowboy movie he did? urban cowboy?

5:30

Urban cowboy cowboy. Urban

5:32

cowboy. I remember

5:35

also that that next week you I remember you on

5:37

the cover of Time Magazine. Right. Yeah.

5:39

That was crazy. What do you do? What do you

5:41

go from cover of time magazine in

5:43

your very first audition. Do

5:45

you know how to talk about being shot out

5:47

of a can? Yeah. It's pretty extraordinary.

5:50

And, you know, for the

5:52

listeners who weren't alive for

5:54

roots and what it was. I

5:57

mean, it's it was such AII can't

5:59

think of anything that was bigger. I mean, honestly,

6:01

it was as big as Star Wars. At the time, it was.

6:03

Sure. It it it it it had an impact.

6:05

It made an impact.

6:08

Yeah. And and, you know, the idea that

6:10

it was all broadcast in in consecutive nights

6:12

of of programming How many nights was?

6:14

888 nights originally, eight consecutive

6:17

nights. Eight two hour. It's somewhere

6:19

two, somewhere one. Oh, were there some Yeah. Because

6:22

yeah. Yeah. Somewhere one. They had, I think,

6:24

two one hour nights. It

6:27

was it was what

6:29

a ride? I mean,

6:32

what was it like to go from from

6:34

a regular person to phenomenon.

6:37

It was exciting and heavy

6:41

and really confusing. Frankening.

6:46

Yeah. Even. Yeah. And

6:49

Dolores, your manager saved my

6:51

life. What what

6:53

was her guidance? Do you remember any of it? She

6:55

just kept me safe. I

6:59

didn't know this until fairly

7:01

recently. But Dolores

7:06

Dolores used to show up at

7:08

places where I was. She'd like me casually talking

7:10

to me on during the day. And say, oh, so what are you doing? The

7:12

night night teller? You know, I'm going to such a such a bar

7:14

and hang out. I'm going to the roxy or whatever.

7:17

And she would get there before I did.

7:19

And and get in the back and just

7:23

Wow. Right? It's just like a secret service

7:25

agent a little bit. Yeah. She

7:29

kept me safe. She kept

7:31

me safe. My my my

7:33

my other really fun

7:36

Dolores Robinson too was I

7:38

couldn't get a job as an actor and I was

7:40

a bus boy at the Nantucket Light

7:43

restaurant in Malibu, which is now where Nobu

7:45

is. Right. And I I couldn't hold couldn't

7:47

hold any job when I was a kid. I was I

7:49

was always because I was usually flirting with somebody

7:52

or, you know, eating the the mud pie in the walking

7:54

freezer. That's well, that's what that's what

7:56

sunk my my ship at the Nantucket

7:59

light. Mud pie has been the downfall of many

8:01

of them. I ran into the Shoals. At the

8:03

Nantucket life. Is that right? Eating

8:05

the mud pie, eating but but I can remember clearing

8:08

her dishes that she came and eaten.

8:10

And just whispering her, get me out

8:12

of her. God.

8:15

Well, you you had

8:17

quite a a dramatic start

8:20

yourself. I mean, here's what

8:22

I remember about you. You were part of

8:24

a cadre -- Yes. -- of

8:26

kids. Yes. That went to Samo High.

8:28

Yes. Right? You and

8:30

and Holly, Matt Robinson, her

8:32

brother -- Mhmm. -- Amelia Estevas,

8:35

Right? Sean

8:37

Penn. Chris Penn. You

8:39

guys were And, you know, who gets forgotten?

8:42

Robert Downey Junior. Robert Downey Junior.

8:44

Right. Using history class. What

8:49

a cohort? Isn't that crazy? It's

8:51

crazy. It really is. But I people

8:53

ask me about it, and III think it's There

8:56

are times, you you

8:58

know, on the planet when areas

9:01

just kind of have an energy, you know,

9:04

Laurel Canyon in nineteen sixty eight.

9:06

Right. The birds live next door to Jim

9:08

Morrison and Jackson Brown later

9:10

a place in the basement above the Eagles. Jones and

9:12

Mitchell. Jones and Yeah. And I they

9:15

were all dressed. They were I mean, they were all there.

9:17

Right? Yeah. And Malibu, was

9:19

that was definitely and there's other people

9:21

we're not even thinking of. They're like the dylan kids.

9:24

Right. I

9:26

mean, there's all kinds of tertiary

9:29

people that you go, oh my god. You were

9:32

There was a moment. It was a moment in

9:34

in Malibu, in the book. As

9:36

as the kids safe these days.

9:39

And didn't Holly Robinson end

9:41

up doing her first pro job

9:43

with you? Yes. She did. Yeah. Was it done? Yeah.

9:45

Yeah. Right? I remember sending

9:47

her flowers to the patient. And

9:51

a and a telegram, really? Where

9:54

she worked with she she played she

9:56

played with Stephen Williams who who

9:59

ended up also being

10:01

in jump street. That's right.

10:04

Now and also, just a total sidebar,

10:07

I was looking at your filmography. Were you looking

10:09

for mister Goodbye? I was. Yeah.

10:11

Tell me what Okay. See, now we're in

10:13

these seventies. You know, movies in the seventies

10:15

were shipped. Yeah. They were. They really

10:18

were. Really, really, And you were in

10:20

looking I wasn't looking for mister Goodyear. So who

10:22

directed it? I Richard Brooks. Richard

10:24

Brooks. Richard Brooks. Wow.

10:26

Richard Blackboard Jungle. Yes.

10:29

Right? Right? Yeah. Who

10:31

had a reputation, had earlier in

10:33

his career, had

10:36

a script or the as a story goes, parts

10:38

of a script sort of stolen. And

10:40

so he was very very secretive.

10:42

There were the I my lines he wrote

10:44

down and then handed it to me and

10:46

said here, memorized these. And

10:50

and so I was really excited after

10:52

production wrapped to get two packages

10:55

from Freddie fields, the producer.

10:57

Freddie Right. Freddie

11:00

Fields is a legendary agents turned

11:02

producer, studio manager. Yeah.

11:05

So I opened the first package and

11:07

it's a beautiful leather,

11:09

brown leather, golden bust

11:12

scriptbook with my name on

11:14

it. And looking for mister Goodbar,

11:16

so I'm like opening the second

11:18

package. I know this is

11:21

the script. Yes. Now I can finally

11:23

read it. There's a cover page

11:25

and one hundred and ten blank

11:27

pages. And that's Freddie

11:29

feels sense of humor. I

11:32

hope you kept please tell me it's still around.

11:34

Still around somewhere. Oh,

11:36

that's so good. What

11:41

I worked with John Amos much later in

11:43

life, played

11:45

the older version of you. Am I correct? That's correct.

11:48

That is correct. What

11:50

an actor? He he he's still

11:52

with Oh, yeah. John my my John

11:54

lives I think maybe

11:56

he doesn't now, but for a long time, he lived

11:59

on a boat. Which

12:01

is Anybody lives on a boat. That's very

12:04

come down on my boat. Like, it's such a gangster

12:06

move. It is. It is. Not

12:08

a boat. Yep. Go

12:10

any time you want. You can just

12:13

piece out. Peace. See, that was

12:15

a great cast. Drew, LeVar,

12:18

Ben Vereen, I watched

12:21

officer and gentleman again last week.

12:24

Yeah. Raul. Yeah. Lou got Lucas

12:26

also lived in Malvern. He did. Lou

12:28

Gossett, when we we shot the first

12:31

three hours on location Savannah, Georgia,

12:33

That's where I met Lou. And

12:35

then we came back to to Los Angeles.

12:37

And in that first week of shooting

12:39

here in LA, Lou took me home

12:41

to his his apartment, his house

12:43

on on the beach in Malibu. Just so

12:45

we could hang out, spend the night and, you know, and just spend

12:48

time together. My

12:51

very first day as a professional

12:53

actor. Sisley Tyson played my mother.

12:55

Come on. Maya Angelo played my

12:57

grandmother. Well, I'm sorry. Who? I'm sorry. What?

12:59

Doctor Maya. Angela, flake

13:02

my grandmother, Neil Boto, in

13:05

in roots. And that very first day,

13:07

that's that's those were my acting partners.

13:12

I know. I'm I'm actually

13:15

speechless now. I was nice. What was he?

13:17

What was What was that light? Was

13:19

was there any poetry read? Please tell

13:21

me. Yeah. Is there a Burton

13:24

poem in the archives? You you know what

13:26

it was. For me, in those in

13:28

those early days, it was it was being

13:30

in the makeup trailer -- Mhmm. -- in the morning

13:33

with with those women and

13:36

and just being in their presence was

13:39

all I needed. I didn't have to eat

13:41

or sleep. I just needed to

13:43

be around them and just

13:47

absorb whatever I could.

13:49

And it was it was like that for the entire seven

13:51

weeks. Moses

13:53

Gunn, g two Kambuka, Lou,

13:56

old people that I had admired, you

13:58

know, growing up and seen on television.

14:02

It was quite an extraordinary thing.

14:04

And the weird thing is is that

14:07

I don't remember being particularly nervous

14:10

because I knew I'm

14:12

I if I knew anything at that point in my

14:14

life, I knew who Kumba Kintai was. I

14:17

knew it I knew who that character

14:19

was inside and out. What

14:21

do you think led to that kind of awareness? Just

14:24

my whole life. Right? I just

14:26

knew how this

14:28

young man felt in any

14:31

given situation. I

14:33

just knew. I just

14:35

I had that knowingness. Isn't

14:37

it? It didn't happen, but it doesn't happen all the

14:39

time. Does it? Oh, god. Right? No. And

14:41

then when it does, I'm not sure what to attribute

14:44

it to. I think there's AIII

14:46

have I have felt a

14:48

sense of I

14:51

guess, destiny -- Yeah. -- in in

14:53

in my life. I'm I'm

14:57

sure you do too that that there

14:59

are things that that have

15:01

transpired that I

15:04

could never have predicted, and

15:07

I am in awe. Of.

15:09

And and the only

15:11

thing I can attribute it to is that this

15:13

was this was part of somebody's plan.

15:16

Right. Yeah. And and and

15:18

it ain't it wasn't mine, not at least on

15:20

not on a conscious level. Because if you had given

15:22

me, you know, patents and tenant said, so,

15:24

you know, draw it up. Dream

15:27

up your your career. Your career. I

15:29

wouldn't have been as generous to myself.

15:32

Yeah. Same. Right? Oh,

15:35

same. And, you know, my

15:38

my first movie was the outsiders,

15:40

and that was a big movie. I

15:42

thought all movies were gonna be like that. Francis

15:45

Ford cop. Yeah. I mean,

15:47

I your first director. Right? Come

15:49

on, man. And you don't come on. I

15:51

know. I know you just don't know.

15:58

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don't even know when the last time we'd physically laid

19:39

eyes on each other of the gates. Deck

19:41

decades. Yeah. Decades. Right. At

19:43

least a couple. Gotta be. Right? Yeah. Sure.

19:45

And yet, you know, what a history? Yeah.

19:48

Yeah. And a a sense of

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of kinship, you know, we haven't

19:53

seen each other in in eons

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but you walked in the door. It was like, my god.

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Let me hug this guy's face.

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I was so happy to hear that you were coming.

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It just warms warms

20:08

my heart. IIII

20:10

was hoping you were gonna be the jeopardy guy because

20:12

you were the you did you were you

20:15

are, like, that that

20:17

guy to me. Reading Rainbow,

20:19

Jeopardy, Wordsmith, storyteller. Yeah.

20:23

Yo. And and I know that's what you you feel

20:25

your core your storyteller. Yeah. At

20:27

my at my very core.

20:30

Yeah. That's that's what I am. That's

20:32

what I am. The most important thing that mankind

20:34

has, the most important thing we do storytelling. Yeah.

20:36

Just on practical LeVar. Without storytelling,

20:40

how would they know not to go to the water

20:42

hole with all tiger was? Right.

20:45

Right? And it when

20:47

you look at it from that to what it's become

20:49

today, it it because that's

20:51

all that's really what I realized. That's what

20:53

I what I do. What's the oldest art form.

20:55

Right? There is. You know, we started telling

20:58

stories in the caves before the cave.

21:00

Right? We started recording them in the cave.

21:03

In in reading, your your mom was the one who got

21:05

you under reading. My mom was an English teacher. That's

21:07

first time. Was an English teacher. Right? So

21:09

it's good to have a mom as an English teacher. Right?

21:11

Best. Best. Best. Best. Yeah.

21:14

And it's interesting because you think that maybe

21:16

they'd screw us up, and we the

21:18

last thing we would wanna do is read. Mhmm.

21:21

But no. I I read all the

21:23

times ahead. I know you did. I did. Yeah.

21:25

Yeah. My mom because not because

21:27

my mom always read. She was a reader.

21:30

That was the modeling that

21:32

I Yeah. It wasn't like they said, go do it.

21:34

They were they were doing it. She always had a book

21:36

going at least once, sometimes two,

21:38

even three books going for her own

21:40

just, you know, just because she was so

21:43

so voracious about it and and had really

21:45

she loved Lulamore. She

21:47

loved her westerns. She had really eclectic

21:50

taste. Was it your idea to start

21:52

reading rainbow? Or was it a collaborator? They just

21:54

knew you'd be a good fit? They they had been

21:56

developing it and they were looking for a host. And

21:59

there used to be show in in New York on

22:02

the news called LeVar at five. Or

22:04

Susan. Susan Susan Susan. To mine.

22:07

Hello? Two semis. So

22:09

I was was actually, I was on my way.

22:11

I was through New York on my way to

22:14

Africa. And I

22:16

was doing little interview with Sue Simmons and

22:18

the producers saw

22:20

it and tracked me down. They tracked me down

22:22

at the Essex House Hotel. And

22:25

breath of fresh Hi. Central Park.

22:27

It's Essex House. And

22:31

they pitched it over the phone and and

22:34

Dolores and I were like, yeah, this

22:36

makes sense. And see, here's the thing.

22:40

Talk about everything happens for a reason.

22:42

Okay? So here I am. I do

22:45

this thing called Roots. It's my first job.

22:47

And then these people

22:49

want me to do a children's television show.

22:51

Now Dolores' husband, her first

22:53

husband to whom name she was

22:55

divorced. But Matt Robinson was

22:58

the original gourd on

23:00

Sesame Street. I mean. Right?

23:03

So Dolores had this real

23:06

special place in her heart. For children's

23:08

programming and really encouraged

23:11

me to to do

23:13

it. And, you know, with

23:16

with without that sort of

23:18

push in in

23:20

in the right direction, my

23:23

life and career would look

23:25

completely different. And it ran

23:27

out twenty Twenty six seasons? Twenty

23:30

six seasons. Yeah. Season.

23:32

Oh, yeah. PBS. It's

23:35

simple. And then, of course, there's

23:37

the Star Trek thing. The Star Trek thing.

23:39

Yeah. Yeah. Tell tell me

23:41

about the visor. I gotta

23:43

know about the because I gotta say

23:45

to me -- Mhmm. -- the visor looked

23:48

like there's girls

23:50

in the control booth. What are the things you

23:52

put? Are you putting your hair to make your hair it's

23:54

not a burrata? Because those are the banana clip.

23:57

Is it what's the thing? Thank

23:59

you. Yeah. It's like it to

24:02

to me, look like just a woman's headband

24:04

with you on you. That was the They they weren't

24:06

the that was the inspiration. Was it? It

24:08

was? No. It was. No. It was the inspiration.

24:10

Wasn't. Okay. Well, come

24:13

really ask Michael Okuda, the

24:15

man who who who designed it.

24:19

It was inspired by a Denise

24:21

Ocuda headband, a

24:23

women's hair retention

24:25

device. They're okay. So I'm not

24:27

crazy. No. You're not. You're not.

24:30

See, I was I was just thought it was one of those

24:32

things where they were like, they've spent so much

24:34

money. Hiring you your,

24:36

you know, your your ginormous

24:38

fee and and the sets And

24:41

they're like, oh, Jesus Christ. We forgot to do the

24:43

goddamn iPhone for me. We're

24:45

not this. It's run a

24:47

headstand and yeah. And this works for me and off

24:49

they go. Fram oil filter. That's what I

24:52

thought it was. Yeah. Right? They never

24:54

drive you berserkat. It, you know, it

24:56

it it it became

24:58

my nemesis. I'm sure

25:00

by the first lunch break. It it was

25:03

exciting at first and then the the real challenge

25:05

of acting with without my eyes. Sort

25:08

of landed and it was like, wow. Okay.

25:11

Did you have a I was gonna thought it seemed

25:13

like such a good idea in a person. It

25:15

it it that's it it was like I

25:17

was so excited, and then

25:19

the reality said, you know. What

25:24

the hell have I gotten myself into

25:26

here? Because it's that I

25:29

I wore an eye patch in Austin

25:31

Powers. Yeah. And

25:34

that thing used to drive

25:36

me bananas. Because it's the

25:38

depth perception thing? Yes. Right. The depth

25:41

and and it's kinda like

25:44

seeing little is worse than not seeing at all

25:46

maybe? Yeah. See, did you have, like, yet upper

25:48

peripheral vision? No. I did not. No. Yeah.

25:50

I I couldn't see above my my head.

25:52

I couldn't see. You couldn't see it all. I couldn't see my

25:54

feet. No. No.

25:56

I could see what was right in front of me.

25:59

And and the challenge was to not look

26:01

for my feet. Right? Yes.

26:04

Because, you know, chief engineer had to know

26:06

every end of that ship. And and

26:09

you couldn't see me hesitating

26:11

to to figure out where the, you know,

26:14

where the ramp was or, you know I

26:16

bumped into a lot of shit in the first season. That

26:18

that would be good behind the scenes. It

26:21

was challenging. It was challenging.

26:24

Did you have any apprehension

26:27

about that kind of

26:29

like, Star Trek being such an iconic thing and

26:31

doing a a rebirth of it? Or

26:33

do you know this is gonna be amazing? Obviously, it doesn't

26:35

wanna be a part of it. I just wanted to be a part of course.

26:37

I just wanted to be part of it. And, you know,

26:41

I think I had I

26:43

wasn't I wasn't afraid of

26:45

it because overcoming

26:48

the stereotype of of

26:50

Quinta, you know, was

26:54

was the was the job, you

26:56

know, that that Dolores and I undertook

26:59

after roots to make sure that I had a career

27:01

that that that

27:04

had any sort of longevity in order

27:06

to do that. I would gonna have to, you know,

27:08

beat the tenancy. Universal

27:11

wanted to do the life and times of Contakinte or,

27:13

you know, series based

27:15

on -- Mhmm. -- stories and and and and then then

27:17

then I just figured that was gonna be the the

27:20

end. The end before just

27:22

as it's just as beginning. So Was

27:24

Gene Rottenberry alive? Yes. Very

27:26

much. What was he did you meet him? What was he like? Very

27:29

much. Very much. He was, you know,

27:31

he he was that visionary. But

27:33

one of things that I learned from gene

27:36

lean run very obviously who created creator The creator

27:38

Star Trek. You called him the big bird of the galaxy. That's

27:41

amazing. Yeah. Gene

27:44

Gene taught me that all of our heroes are human.

27:47

Because I did I did revere him.

27:49

And then I met him, and then I and then I

27:51

realized, he's a guy.

27:54

Right? Yeah. He he was from that generation of

27:56

three martinis at lunch

27:58

and, you know, you look at all the first you

28:00

look at the star check, the original star check, all

28:02

the women were very short Kurtz. He was

28:04

a man of his generation.

28:07

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Right? So the

28:09

the idea that that that he could

28:11

that both things could be true. He

28:13

could be this incredible visionary

28:17

and at the same time, you

28:19

know, have have the kinds of foibles

28:22

that that most men

28:24

do. And that was I

28:27

think that's one of the most important lessons I've ever

28:29

learned. That's great one. It is. That's

28:31

I'm gonna steal that. I've got

28:34

couple people I'm gonna use that answer on.

28:36

It's a really good answer. Alex Haley

28:38

taught me that your authentic voice as

28:41

a storyteller is the only thing you've got.

28:43

Right? Develop it. Develop

28:46

a bit, know who you are as

28:48

the storyteller. Right?

28:51

Yeah. And that's and that's why actors

28:53

are just -- Right. -- an offshoot because

28:56

it's the same it's the same it's the

28:58

same thing. It's exactly the same

29:00

thing. Now when

29:03

because I I conflate all of the star tracks.

29:05

I get it. I get it at a certain point,

29:08

and and I go because

29:10

who'll be as an old friend too. And whoopi was

29:12

on, and we were talking about her time on Star

29:14

Trek. Right. You guys didn't did you overlap? Mhmm.

29:16

We did we were we were in the same we were in the same cast.

29:19

In in the same cast. In fact, it was what

29:21

we what we and

29:23

I were talking because we both shared a love

29:25

for the original track. And Michelle

29:27

Nichols, and Star Trek as

29:29

an example of cop

29:31

culture where black people were included. Yes.

29:35

And that was huge for

29:38

both of us. And so she

29:40

said to me, I want a Beyond

29:42

Star Trek. Would you tell Rick Berman?

29:44

And I did, and and he didn't believe

29:47

me. Oh, right? I remember She was

29:49

the biggest star in the fucking

29:51

world. I think she just won an Oscar.

29:53

Yeah. And she wanted to do television,

29:55

which was not done back

29:57

in the middle. No. No. No. No. I

29:59

mean, no. No. There

30:02

there was there was no crossover So it

30:04

was Wendy doesn't give a fuck. No. She

30:06

just does what she wants. That's why she's whoopi.

30:08

Right? That's why she's so free. Yeah.

30:10

It is. She's I mean,

30:12

talking about following your mews. Unfettered.

30:15

Unfettered. She was just a she was just

30:17

on the show and she's so She's

30:19

another one. Just, like, hugging on

30:21

whoopie is, like, she's just the best. Yeah.

30:24

She and Fred and Fred Rogers And

30:27

and and and and Alex,

30:30

to a certain extent, I put

30:32

them in category of most authentic people

30:34

I've ever tell me about Fred Rogers. I never

30:36

met him. Yeah. I

30:38

mean, obviously, between the

30:40

the the books and growing up with him. Right.

30:43

I I was just fascinated that he could time

30:45

his clothing routine in

30:47

those opening credits down to the he wrote the

30:49

song, so he knew how much time he needed. Exactly.

30:53

I mean, he knew he knew exactly.

30:55

Right. He knew exactly. Right?

30:57

And his mom knitted those sweaters. People

31:00

talk about Christopher Walker having

31:03

an interesting speaking rhythm. Yeah.

31:05

I think Fred Rogers has one

31:07

of the great speaking rhythms of all time.

31:09

That was it was also married with

31:11

an intentionality of

31:15

focus. He was he

31:17

was laser

31:19

locked on you when you were

31:21

in his presence. And you

31:23

felt the full force of his attention, which

31:26

was considerable. He was

31:29

probably one certainly one of

31:31

the most patient human

31:33

beings I've ever met and openly,

31:36

honestly caring

31:39

and loving. As

31:42

a human being. Could you wait? Because he's so

31:45

embedded in the public consciousness

31:48

as Mister Rogers, you

31:50

keep waiting for the other shoe to drop.

31:52

There was no other There's no other shoe. He was

31:54

that guy. See, when I first met him, I

31:56

was expecting I was excited to meet

31:59

the real guy. Right? Yes.

32:01

Because that's gotta be an act. Right. It

32:03

has to be an act. Yeah. No.

32:06

That's I was red. That's

32:09

amazing. Yeah. I wonder what

32:11

what mister Rogers would have thought of TikTok.

32:16

Well, you know, you know, Fred was a musician

32:18

first and foremost. Right? So

32:20

he he probably would've he probably would've

32:22

done it. Really he was he I believe,

32:25

I I call him a saint. He certainly

32:27

was a saintly individual. I just I'm I'm

32:29

I'm just gonna go ahead and claim it for. Claim

32:31

it. Fred Rogers was a saint. That's

32:33

so That's amazing.

32:40

Bed time is rough. Even

32:43

for peanut, that's why people will try

32:45

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32:47

before bed, even blowing bubbles.

32:50

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32:54

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33:10

Radio Andy. Hey, it's

33:13

Andy Cohen. Join me on Andy

33:15

Cohen LeVar, where it's just you, me,

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33:48

You also played Ron the floor? I did.

33:51

Great. So that's that's a deep dive for but baseball

33:53

fans out. Jonathan Frakes is gonna be so happy

33:55

to hear you mention that. I am He

33:57

loves the runner star. He's a big baseball

33:59

fan. Freaks. Yeah. Yeah. like Brakes.

34:01

He's great. Yeah. I remember watching

34:04

the I saw the floor play. Did

34:06

you? Mhmm. When he was AAA

34:08

tiger? Yes. When he was tiger. Wow. Did you shoot

34:10

in Tiger Stadium? We did. It was my first

34:12

experience in a in a professional baseball

34:14

stadium. That in Tiger Stadium.

34:17

Tiger Stadium. My So

34:19

my very first experience at a in a Major

34:21

League Baseball park, I come out of the tunnel

34:23

wearing number eight at a home game.

34:25

What do you do with you and your first experiences? Yeah.

34:28

Yeah. You know, my first experience, I

34:30

I went to the moon. Yep. First

34:32

experience, III was elected president

34:34

of the United States. Something new.

34:37

I've I've had a life rob. I really

34:39

have. I and I I asked

34:41

myself often what

34:44

was it that I did in in a previous life

34:47

to deserve this 1III

34:49

can't even imagine. I I'm I'm

34:51

genuinely one of the most

34:54

fortunate individuals I've ever met. Well, you know the

34:56

other thing I'm I'm struck with,

34:58

LeVar, is you've

35:00

also seen and done it all. Look, you and I've been

35:02

around a long time. And this this

35:05

this business to survive,

35:08

you have to develop,

35:11

call it, a thick skin, whatever

35:14

it can make people super jaded, whatever it

35:16

does, but you seem

35:18

unaffected by the journey. And

35:21

clearly, you have to have been because

35:23

you wouldn't be human if you weren't. Yeah. But

35:25

your sort of, like,

35:28

vibe is

35:30

really rare for someone who

35:33

has been through what you've been through

35:35

to get to where you've gotten. I was forced

35:37

to figure it out. Isn't

35:39

that always the truth? Yeah. I I had

35:41

to. It was it it was due

35:43

it was get real or die. Right?

35:46

In there, baby. Right? Yeah. And

35:49

I decided to get real. And

35:51

I I literally went on an

35:54

extensive period of

35:56

of of search and exploration to

36:01

to reach the core of my authentic

36:03

self and then bring that back. To

36:05

the world. Yeah.

36:07

That's and it and that's been my journey

36:10

as well. Yeah. Like the the the authentic

36:12

self. See, you will you

36:14

will relate to this. I have recently come to the conclusion

36:17

that my job, Ram, is

36:19

to show up and be myself. Dude.

36:24

Right, dude. No. It

36:26

occurred to me. It occurred to me in the last

36:28

ten Five years -- Five years

36:30

for me. -- five years for me. Like, the

36:33

only thing I have to offer really

36:35

the end of day There's so many good

36:37

actors. There's so many of this, and there's so many of

36:39

that. The the only thing I really have to

36:42

offer is is me. Yeah.

36:44

Some total of my experience and and and

36:46

my willingness to share that with others.

36:49

Right? The benefit of my experience. Now,

36:51

which you know, which for me

36:54

is why one of the reasons I do this because

36:56

in in in learning

36:58

about others, you know, I learned about more

37:00

about myself and know,

37:02

people get to know more about me because this this is

37:04

the real me talking to you and writing

37:07

books is the same. And Mars are fun to write

37:09

and not easy, but but

37:11

fun. I'm so glad you're in my book, bro. You're

37:14

in it. Well, name check the baby.

37:16

Wow. There's some good company in there. I

37:19

can only imagine some

37:22

of some of your stories. There's

37:24

some good ones in there. I gotta say.

37:27

There's some Holly Robinson's in their victim,

37:29

Dolores's in their victim time. That

37:32

was a that was a good a good time.

37:34

Let me ask you, what is

37:36

because I haven't like, I I talked about briefly

37:38

earlier. What is

37:41

as a jeopardy fan, if you go on jeopardy,

37:43

what's the thing that would be the most surprising. Is

37:46

there something? Is it like like,

37:48

I did family feud? Yeah. It

37:51

was so I love game shows by the way too. I

37:54

I love them. And and obviously, that jeopardy

37:56

occupies a whole other. It's different

37:58

it's the it's the pinnacle in

38:00

in in American game show

38:03

culture. Don't even Game

38:05

show seems debasing to call

38:07

or no? It's it's it's

38:09

it's of a genre. III believe Like, I don't even

38:11

like the term sitcom for comedies. Okay.

38:13

Because it makes it I know it it it it it's in

38:16

some way. Do you know what I'm saying? I get it. Yeah. I understand

38:18

what you mean. So there's a little bit a little

38:20

color a quiz show. Oh.

38:23

Right? Jeopardy is the pinnacle --

38:26

Yes. -- in his culture, in terms of of quiz

38:28

shows. How do how do you have oh,

38:30

it's because you read, of course. I was not I was like, what's

38:33

what's the source of of your

38:35

depth so much bullshit

38:38

in my head. Yeah. Yeah. Are you

38:40

good at trivial pursuit as well or is that beneath

38:42

you? No. Not at all. In fact, one

38:44

of the, you know, in in in the

38:47

everything happens for a reason department.

38:50

Because I was really disappointed that I

38:52

didn't get that gig. Because I thought

38:55

oh, I thought it was a live I I thought

38:57

I thought it well, actually, you know what I

38:59

thought? I thought it was a real audition. And then

39:01

as it turns out, it it really wasn't. Because

39:04

the producer, the the guy who, you

39:06

know, taught me how to play the The fix was in.

39:08

He was doing it. he the man

39:10

who said, I'm not interested

39:13

in the job. My job is to help them find

39:15

the right person for the job. Always

39:17

intended to give himself the job. We always III

39:20

call that the the Dick Cheney experiment.

39:23

Yeah. Well well, president-elect,

39:25

I will help lead the search for vice president.

39:28

We will find the vice vice president for

39:30

you, mister president. Oh, wait. It's me. It's me.

39:32

Yeah. It's me. It's me all the law

39:34

all the time. So

39:37

one of the unintended consequences

39:39

of not getting that job was

39:42

the phone ringing and and on the other hand

39:44

being Hasbro. Right? Who said

39:46

we have a little piece of

39:48

IP called trivial pursuit, and we're gonna

39:50

wanna turn it into a television show. We can't

39:52

think of it. And me one, we would

39:54

rather have hosted. And they

39:56

made me a partner in the United States and

39:58

there you go. And Jeopardy would have

40:01

never done that. Where does trivial

40:03

pursuit? Where where is it? We have a We

40:05

we we are pitching. We

40:07

and we've come up with what I I believe

40:10

is a really good game. How long did it take to

40:12

crack the game part of it? We

40:14

cracked the game part of it in about

40:16

four to five months. Yeah. I think It's

40:18

hard. Isn't it is not easy? Isn't it hard?

40:20

Yeah. In fact, I think we we you know, originally,

40:23

you know, we were going in one direction. I thought it would be

40:25

very, very cool to not have any to

40:27

not be playing for money. Right?

40:30

Let's play for something worth

40:32

more than money. Play for an experience. Right?

40:36

People wanna, you know We want money. People want

40:38

money. There's certain things that because I sometimes

40:40

do a show called mental Samurai, which

40:42

is it's it's a you

40:45

you have it it's it's a it's trivia

40:47

under stress. Wow. There's both

40:49

a mental and physical stress.

40:52

And by the way, I love hosting it. Mhmm.

40:54

And we've done two seasons. We may be doing a

40:56

third one. But and

40:58

we created the game, obviously.

41:00

And the things you learn

41:03

about what works and don't work in terms

41:05

of a game for people to

41:07

watch. It's amazing. And it's usually

41:10

keep it simple, stupid. Yeah. It's like

41:12

our thing was originally, it was

41:15

it's an obstacle course of the

41:17

mind. Like, what's

41:21

it in Ninja Warrior. Mhmm. Right?

41:23

Mhmm. Mhmm. And then we realize,

41:25

no no nobody wants to watch a game.

41:28

That they go into thinking no one's going

41:30

to win. It really interesting, like,

41:32

we need so in the second season, we

41:34

reworked the game so there are more winners. Yeah.

41:37

Like, people turns out, people didn't like to

41:39

see people lose every week. No. Because Well, you know,

41:41

what it but you but you like something you don't think

41:43

about. You wanna identify, you know, with

41:45

with the player. Yes. And and in that

41:47

identification, you want that player to win. For

41:49

whatever reason, you're attracted to their personality,

41:52

their, you know, their their the color of their

41:54

eyes, their smile, whatever it is, they're

41:56

a stand in. Yes. We're we're a

41:58

competitor inside of you. Exactly

42:00

right. Did you

42:03

ever have a moment where you watch

42:05

a contestant flail and

42:07

it's just you know they know it and

42:09

they're drawing a blank or

42:11

they don't know it and they're drawing a blank and you're like

42:13

you have to be kidding me. I

42:15

I've been on on that even on that

42:18

end of it. I've been on that end of it. I've been on that end

42:20

of it. There was a Star

42:22

Trek edition of the weakest link. And

42:27

I I got into the final round with

42:31

know if you know the actor Bob Bickardo, Robert Bickardo.

42:33

Sure. LeVar Wonderful. Wonderful. That's

42:35

a great actor. Mhmm. It's a really sharp

42:37

dresser and a and a lovely human being.

42:40

And the clue was

42:44

about pre war. Was

42:47

a word for pre war. And I said, I

42:49

and I, you know, as a seminary

42:51

and I studied

42:53

Latin and I I I've got to know this.

42:55

I know it's in there somewhere, and the clock was ticking.

42:57

And and then and just as I

42:59

was about to let go and say, don't

43:02

know it, boom, antebellum. Came into

43:04

my head. And it was like,

43:06

wow. I can't believe it

43:08

took me that long, but

43:10

it did. But thank god, it was married.

43:13

Somewhere. And then it came and then it came out without

43:16

almost unconscious un almost unconsciously

43:18

because I had oh, no. III don't know it. I'm

43:20

I'm I'm done. And I boom. I had this

43:23

a guy who, I believe, it's been

43:25

a while since I've seen the episode, but he was a

43:28

NASA engineer. Right?

43:30

Super smart? And

43:32

it's his very first question. And you have

43:34

sixty seconds to complete an abs a

43:36

mental obstacle course. K.

43:39

And use visuals as

43:41

well. And the question is,

43:43

the prompt is name

43:47

this superstar eighties

43:50

pop duo. And

43:52

then there was a picture of

43:54

a long hallway and

43:58

a bowl of oats, all

44:00

the oats. She's got sixty seconds. Okay.

44:04

Oh, boy, I'm not really good with me. So

44:06

there's a hall and ball

44:09

oats, a hall of

44:11

boat, oats, hallway

44:14

oats, serial

44:17

floor, hall, oatmeal,

44:22

floor ceiling, put sixty

44:27

Long seconds. That's painful. And

44:30

then and this might this the last one, this is my favorite

44:32

one. So it's mammogram. Can see

44:34

the Anagram. And it says, this Anagram

44:36

is the title of this iconic

44:40

nineties ensebumble

44:43

sitcom. It's clearly friends.

44:46

Right? I mean, it's

44:48

it's right there. It's the underground. Sixty

44:52

seconds. And

44:54

I said, look, you're going down

44:56

clearly. Don't you want to take a swing at

44:58

it? Just name something

45:00

because alright. Alright. Dufins. Ouch.

45:04

I wanted to redo the friend's logo with

45:07

the famous friend's font. With

45:09

dolphins. The

45:14

I but I gotta say you can be really

45:16

really smart and and

45:18

and not be good under

45:20

pressure like that. Yeah. There is

45:22

no pressure like the red

45:25

light on a camera. Right? When

45:27

that red light goes on and you know

45:29

that it's on you, it's just

45:31

a whole other level of I

45:34

need I need to perform. Yeah. There's

45:36

a reason why Stanley Kubrick made Hal

45:38

a red light. Yes. Exactly

45:40

right. Exactly right. Exactly. I never even

45:42

thought of that, Rob. Right? Whoa.

45:46

Right? Yes. Like the all seeing All

45:48

glowing cold. Yes.

45:51

Unblinking. How?

45:55

Yeah. So III get

45:57

it. III get it. Pressure

46:01

can, you know, pressure

46:03

the motherfucker. Yeah. It is.

46:06

Oh, we didn't talk about Jim Jones

46:08

stole my car. We had -- Oh, my car. -- this is the

46:10

problem when I I

46:13

want it's funny. I've wondered why I'm

46:15

obsessed with Jim Jones and the

46:17

gay Guyana tragedy. And there is this because I was watching

46:19

you in it. Mhmm. It's your fault. Well,

46:22

there there was a hell of a cast in

46:25

in Was was that the one with

46:27

with Power's Boot? Yeah. Power's

46:29

Boot. Diana

46:31

Scarlett, Irene

46:34

Cara. Irene Cara played my love interest.

46:36

And if you guys have not ever seen

46:38

this, try to find it. It is the most

46:41

turbine. It's pretty good.

46:43

It's so good. Power's smooth

46:45

was unconscious. Harrisville

46:48

is one of the great actors of all time. And

46:51

and noteworthy. What's what's the noteworthy

46:53

sidebar about that? Well, he

46:56

was the only actor to

46:58

to cross the Screen Actors Guild picket

47:00

line and go to the Emmy's to receive because he knew

47:02

everybody knew. That Powersmith was

47:04

gonna win, and he was not going to

47:07

not show up to pick up his

47:09

statue. It's a great it's what

47:12

is the actual title? It's one of those convoluted titles.

47:14

Guyana tragedy, the the

47:16

story of Jim Jones, not even the Jim Jones

47:19

story. The story of Jim

47:21

Jones. It's a story of Jim Jones. Yeah.

47:23

That's a great one. Mhmm. But

47:26

now, it's okay. You're gonna have to tell me this the

47:28

Burton reads. Is is

47:31

is my podcast. I say I say at the beginning of the

47:33

of of every episode. Hi, LeVar Burton.

47:35

This is LaVar Burton reads, We're

47:38

in every episode. I pick a different short

47:40

story and I read it to you.

47:43

So it's not chapters You No.

47:45

I'm I'm reading short fiction. And I lean

47:47

and I lean into speculative

47:49

fiction because that's my favorite genre to read when

47:51

I'm reading for pleasure. I I love science fiction

47:54

lithofiction. So and

47:56

and I also

47:58

love doing the show because there's

48:00

a whole generation of adults out there now

48:02

who grew up on reading rainbow. And on reading

48:04

rainbow, I used to recommend books

48:07

to them, and I'm now recommending

48:09

authors. You know, III picked

48:11

literature from a lot of

48:14

different voices out there, marginalized

48:17

authors of authors of color,

48:19

women. So I'm still

48:21

introducing this generation

48:24

to to literature.

48:27

I love it. I love it. How Have

48:30

you done any have you read any books

48:33

audiobooks yourself? I I have. LeVar

48:35

doing audiobooks. I figured you would. Right? Love

48:37

doing audiobooks. Red.

48:40

I did I did the unabridged

48:42

cosmos. What? Karl

48:44

Sagen. Oh my god. That was a project.

48:46

That was an amazing news. Amazing.

48:49

Yeah. Wanna Grammy for the Martin Luther

48:52

King, autobiography. Yeah. Autobiography

48:54

Martin Luther King. You get all the heady

48:56

stuff. They give me, like, What?

48:58

Give me a title. Give me give me a an audio

49:00

book title. I I got Rob Lowes. Yeah. It's and

49:03

I and I'm honored. It's Steven King. Oh, that's

49:05

great. Steven, come on.

49:07

It's Steven again. Come on. Dolan's Cadillac.

49:09

Short story. Yeah. You haven't done it? No.

49:12

Okay. Dolan's Cadillac. Okay.

49:14

It's in his first collection of

49:16

short shorts. Yeah. I'm I'm I'm on it.

49:18

I'm on it. It's it I call it his

49:20

old man on the scene. Is that right? Because

49:23

it's a man it's simply a man with a task. There's

49:25

no dialogue. Oh, wow. Awesome.

49:28

That's awesome. So working his head the entire

49:30

time. It's him working. Wow. It's

49:33

pretty intense. I love it. Yeah.

49:35

I love it. Well, everybody check out the

49:37

podcast. You can get it wherever you get your podcast. Wherever

49:39

you get your podcast on, I like to say.

49:41

Mhmm. I I get my podcast on

49:43

all the time. And we got it on today.

49:46

It was so darn fun. Bravo.

49:49

Nineteen seventy six to today. I

49:54

wish you guys could have seen the interview

49:56

as well as heard it because he

49:58

his energy has, like, there's

50:01

he you could I could steer at LeVar Burton's

50:04

eyes for a long time. He's just kind

50:06

and just what a great I feel

50:08

all warm and fuzzy like I said. What

50:11

an interesting, amazing man. Anyway,

50:13

thank you. I hope you guys had fun. You

50:16

got questions, I got answers. Let's hit the

50:18

load down line. Hello.

50:22

You've reached literally

50:24

in our lowdown line, where

50:26

you can get the lowdown on all

50:28

things about me, bravo, 3235704551.

50:37

So have at it. Here's the beat.

50:39

Hi. This is Diane from Oregon. I

50:42

just finished listening to your book fascinating,

50:45

loved it. I am now watching the

50:47

stand and saw a female's

50:49

fire. Dan, you are a wonderful actor.

50:52

Anyway, in the book, you said you

50:54

got to see a version of outsiders

50:56

that includes the scenes you had filmed

50:59

but had been cut. Is there a way for

51:01

the public to see that version of the outsiders?

51:04

Thanks

51:04

much. Hope you're having great day. Bye.

51:06

Oh, thank you. Thank you for that question. Yes.

51:09

In fact, I tell everybody, if

51:12

you're gonna watch the outsiders, Don't

51:14

watch the outsiders. You watch the

51:16

outsiders. It's great. But the version

51:19

that has all of the stuff that

51:21

we originally shot

51:24

which includes everybody's stuff. It's the

51:26

it's the movie we thought we were making.

51:29

The outsider's version that

51:31

is commonly known as

51:33

the outsider's the original does

51:36

not follow the book. Really

51:38

at all. So

51:41

that's why they call the version I'm talking

51:43

about, the outsiders. The

51:46

complete novel. So that is the

51:48

title. The outsiders, the

51:50

complete novel. And I think that has

51:52

actually now become the

51:55

the version of record in in

51:57

schools that study the outsiders

51:59

because they usually kids have to read the

52:01

book in the seventh grade, and then they Traditionally

52:03

show the movie. They're finally now

52:06

showing the outsiders to the complete

52:08

novel, which is nice because all my

52:10

stuff's back in it. Anyway, thanks

52:12

thanks for the question. Appreciate it.

52:15

More fun next week on literally. So please

52:18

make sure you just download the whole season.

52:21

Would you? Because they're all really super good,

52:23

but next week is in particular one of my

52:25

favorites. So I will see you next week on literally.

52:29

You've been listening to literally with Rob Lowe

52:31

produced by me, Rob Schulte, with

52:33

help from associate producer, Sarah Baguard,

52:36

Our research is done by Alyssa Grawl.

52:38

The podcast is executive produced by

52:40

Rob Lowe for low profile, Adam

52:42

Sacks, Jeff Ross and Joanna Salazar

52:45

off at Team Coco and Colin Anderson

52:47

at Stitcher. All of the music on this podcast

52:49

was composed by Devin Bryant. Thanks for

52:52

listening. We'll see you next time on literally

52:54

with Rob Lowe. This

53:04

has been eighteen cocoa

53:06

production in association with

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stitcher.

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