0:00

So it is Linux Fest 2024. We're here

0:02

live at Linux Fest and we're in room

0:04

like DMC 118 and

0:07

the big big okay maybe not the big buzz

0:09

but some of the buzz is that Ubuntu 24

0:11

04 LTS is now available. And we've

0:13

got in a couple of machines here and

0:16

Wes you also gave it a go. I

0:18

sure did. And then immediately destroyed it for

0:20

five minutes. I must Nix OS everything. But

0:22

that means I got quite quite a quick

0:24

acquainted with that new Flutter installer. Yes. Yes.

0:26

I got a couple of goes with that

0:29

myself. They're also in this is more performing

0:31

but they're also touting it as like a

0:33

more security focus. They've

0:36

tinkered around with unprivileged user namespaces to

0:38

enhance the restrictions there. They've done

0:40

binary hardening to fortify source

0:42

and app armor for ships in this. They're

0:45

also disabling TLS one dot 0 and 1.1.

0:48

And they're shipping a new upstream kernel feature

0:50

in six dot eight. They now have the

0:52

Intel shadow stack support. So

0:55

I don't know what a shadow stack support is but I think

0:57

I probably want it. Sounds like a superhero to me considering

0:59

how you maintain your systems you probably need

1:01

it. Hello

1:08

friends

1:12

and

1:16

welcome back to your weekly Linux talk show.

1:18

My name is Chris. My name is Wes.

1:20

My name is Brent and we're joined by

1:22

a very handsome Alex. Hello and Noah. Hey

1:25

there. Hey there Noah. How's it going.

1:27

He's rushing to the microphone like

1:29

a Drew Bratt as well. We are

1:32

here at Linux Fest Northwest and we

1:34

have stories to share barbecue

1:36

tales no doubt. And

1:38

of course we will have the boost the picks

1:40

the feedback and a whole bunch more. So that's

1:42

all coming up today. So I want to say

1:45

good morning to our friends over at tail scale.

1:47

That's right. tailscale.com slash Linux. Get

1:49

yourself a hundred devices for free. It's like

1:51

a whole mesh network and it's protected by.

1:53

Oh my God. That's

1:56

right. Everybody in the room

1:58

give the listeners back at home a big. hello

2:00

and a round of applause for yourselves and for

2:02

them. Linux Fest, let's hear it. Hello.

2:09

We're finally back. We're finally doing it after what seems

2:11

like 124 years of a break. I

2:15

wasn't even sure if we'd have more than 15 people show up,

2:18

especially after they heard the stories about how Wes likes to

2:20

party. I thought we'd scared everybody away. How are you enjoying

2:22

Linux Fest 2020 so far? It

2:26

does. It kind of, it does feel like we're getting back

2:28

into it. We're also in some of the older rooms that

2:30

we used to be way back in the day, so it

2:32

kind of feels a little nostalgic that way too, because

2:34

that's just what's available because there's still construction going on

2:36

here. And we did

2:39

it the traditional style by

2:41

bringing Lady Jup's, my RV up

2:43

to Linux Fest Northwest. Brent

2:45

got in town early and helped me get her ready

2:47

to go. I actually never left town from

2:49

Texas Linux Fest. I just kind of stuck around here.

2:51

You're caught with me. Fest season continues. So I put him

2:54

to work. You know, that's what you do with a good

2:56

Brent when he's in town. We put him to work.

2:58

So we washed the RV and

3:00

got her all nice and shiny and pretty. So that

3:02

way it wasn't embarrassing to bring to Linux Fest. And

3:05

then it proceeded to rain every single day since we washed

3:07

her. Yeah, we got a posh twice. Yeah,

3:10

right. Just a little, just a little rain wash on her. Parked

3:13

out in camping in the

3:15

parking lot. We set the trend because

3:18

all of the other food trucks, like the food trucks

3:20

came, they parked around Jup's. Really? That was planned? Yeah,

3:22

Jup's was the boss. This was the boss. And so

3:24

we've got a couple of food trucks here. I've

3:27

been sleeping in with the kids in the in the RV

3:29

every single night here in the parking lot. Like old times,

3:31

you know, it doesn't hurt to have that food truck right

3:34

outside when you need a snack. No, and it's great to

3:36

have Lady Jup's to like sneak back into and, you know,

3:38

grab a beer ski or work on the work on the

3:40

show or something like that. So

3:42

it actually works out really good. And then

3:44

our new era has begun as well

3:46

for Linux Fest Northwest. It is the

3:48

all hardware version of our live stream

3:50

and mixing setup here on this table

3:52

that we're sitting at. We've essentially replicated

3:55

in a rough style our entire studio, including

3:58

the mixer setup, remote broadcast

4:00

setup and you know maybe

4:02

not a complete version of it but we're getting

4:05

really really close and I think this is gonna

4:07

be our best remote setup you know if hardware

4:09

had alpha versions this would this would be studio

4:11

v2 alpha alpha yeah and yesterday was pre-alpha even

4:13

because yesterday we had a lot of little glitches

4:15

and things like that to sort out this was

4:17

a dream that started I think

4:20

on our Denver trip three years

4:22

ago yeah we were dreaming about this

4:24

very setup because we ran

4:26

into maybe a few a lot

4:28

of problems doing it other ways

4:31

and we've iterated and iterated and

4:33

decided we're gonna do it this way do

4:35

it the real way it was the perfect kind

4:37

of setup once we started getting into it because

4:39

it took advantage of our of our multiple stacks

4:41

and skill sets so for example for

4:45

the first couple of days we were Brent and

4:47

I were assembling various things like okay we know

4:49

we're gonna need a soundboard we know we're gonna

4:51

need this and then a Wednesday Noah arrived in

4:53

town and then things really kicked up when Noah's

4:55

in town it always does and it kicked up

4:57

and he built us a test studio bench in

4:59

the garage at the studio where we sorted out

5:01

the majority of the problems and you know just

5:04

made sure everything worked while doing a radio show

5:06

oh yeah yeah I wasn't gonna mention that unless

5:08

you wanted me to so I I arrived

5:10

at the studio at like I don't know 830 a.m. and you

5:14

know Noah has been there probably since what 5 a.m.

5:17

yeah doing a radio show in the studio

5:20

and in between commercial breaks or

5:22

during commercial breaks I should say Noah

5:25

ran out and built the test

5:27

garage studio and they would run back in

5:29

and do the radio show and then the commercial break would

5:31

come in even time for another break it's

5:35

probably worth pointing out we needed that cuz I mean

5:37

at the end of the last Linux unplugged some

5:39

of the stuff was still in the box brand

5:41

new yes yeah it was still

5:43

still in the box so we not only have we

5:45

not really configured it for this fest or this operation

5:47

we hadn't configured it at all and we knew we

5:49

needed to do like the full nine so

5:52

we did like we did a whole mock setup including

5:54

mock networking just to make sure we're on a separate

5:56

network and we could do the remote connectivity stuff but

5:59

then tore it down and brought it into the house to make sure

6:01

that it would survive a decommissioned

6:04

re-commission and then packed it up and brought

6:06

it to the fest. Man, and then we got it set up at the

6:08

booth which was a little hectic, but

6:10

you guys got it done, you guys did great. Then

6:12

we had to tear it all down again and move it into this room. How

6:16

long did it take to set this version?

6:18

24 minutes. I think that's pretty

6:20

good. Down from an hour. Yeah. Down from two and

6:22

a half hours. Down from four. It

6:26

was really something I tell you what, but

6:29

it's all awesome because like the whole stack

6:31

even so we're obviously Linux on the laptops,

6:33

but the mixer runs it embedded Linux and

6:35

our barracks encoder runs it a really old embedded

6:37

Linux. So even though we're doing it all hardware

6:39

now instead of with software and Jack, it's all

6:41

still using Linux under the hood. How

6:44

to be a physical slider sometimes, eh? Yeah, it

6:46

is. Can we put one of the Noah stickers

6:48

on something? Yeah. Yeah, you can put it on

6:50

the mixer. Yeah. Yeah. Noah switched it to Linux.

6:52

Yeah, there you go. Just

6:55

make sure you put the alt to speed support number right

6:57

here. Yeah,

7:00

right. Now the first thing I'm gonna do is get

7:02

Ubuntu off all these machines. No, I'm just kidding. It's

7:04

fine. It's fine. Did you end up reloading the remote

7:06

machine? Oh my gosh. You let him talk you into

7:08

that? Well, here's the discussion went like this. So he

7:11

goes they're gonna kill me if I take NixOS off.

7:13

And I said hold on, Chris put Ubuntu 24.04 on that machine. Yeah,

7:16

yeah. And then he told me to put 24.04 on that machine. Yeah, yeah. It

7:19

would be weird if we didn't put 24.04 on that machine. Well,

7:21

that was for the weekend though. It was for the fest. It

7:23

was our fest. You can do a little free of them with

7:25

Nix if you like. You know, you got you're like you got

7:27

you're going to town distro. You got your

7:29

introducing to the family distro and you got your Linux

7:31

fest in distro. So at Linux fest I saw this

7:34

great talk by this guy by the name of Wes

7:36

Payne. He actually took a Ubuntu

7:38

24.04 box in existing. Yes.

7:41

He switched it to NixOS. So maybe he

7:43

can control that guy at Bruce Ski or 10 bucks. He

7:45

can still just convert him for us. I got homework after

7:48

the show. You did have a great talk Wes. Well, thank

7:50

you. It was fun because you

7:52

not only did you do a live swap, but you did

7:54

though you went the full like all reboot and make sure

7:56

it goes in there and you did it the hard way,

7:59

you know, you didn't use like the nyxos anywhere script stuff

8:01

like you did hand by hand which isn't I mean

8:03

an astronomical amount of work but it's a fair amount

8:05

of work for a talk you know if you really

8:07

want to understand something you got to do with the

8:09

dumb way did you end up

8:11

going through that a couple of times last

8:14

night yeah last night on the drive up

8:16

today my lovely girlfriend Jen was

8:18

gracious enough to drive so I could make sure

8:20

that I had things I'll do that's down

8:24

to the wire was I like it that's how you knew you

8:26

coming in it was gonna be really fresh on the tips of

8:28

your fingers because you'd just done it that's right practically makes

8:30

well not perfect but something like that yeah well but

8:32

putting it off to the last minute means that you

8:34

were fresh and ready to go you basically rehearsed why

8:36

didn't what I wanted the late I was using unstable

8:38

I wanted the latest and greatest next packages in there

8:42

but you know I wasn't the only one with a talk

8:44

this time around Alex gave a talk to fact Alex he

8:46

kind of opened up Linux fast one of the very first

8:48

presentations how did it go yeah I did

8:50

the shakedown in Texas two weeks ago so

8:53

the good people of Seattle well Bellingham got

8:55

the the rehearsed version so that was nice

8:58

talked about accessing self hosted services

9:00

remotely why you know why

9:02

doing port forwarding is dangerous what kind of stuff

9:05

so it was a good time I well

9:07

I saw v1 and I really liked the talk

9:09

yeah definitely and I mean if you're not already

9:11

using tail scale and the power of mesh networking

9:13

it's the only reason any of the stuff we're

9:15

doing today is working so it's useful

9:18

all over the place you should mention that this one

9:20

of the things that has been extremely awesome and I

9:22

was about to get into this and then I got

9:24

I got distracted like I do is

9:27

all of this stuff is network-based you know

9:29

control even even the sliders that control the

9:31

mixer are doing it over IP and how

9:34

do you do that when you're going from a

9:36

garage to a booth to a room where you

9:38

keep all the IP is the same you

9:40

do it with tail scale so we've actually set

9:42

up our own mini network here at

9:44

the booth or at the table or in the garage

9:47

and then the machines have tail scale running on them

9:49

and then in fact Wes you

9:51

even came you even came across a cool

9:53

little proxy utility oh yeah it's like a

9:55

node JS app that's designed to proxy to

9:58

these specific line of mixers so while

10:00

you guys were all testing in the studio, I

10:02

had day job stuff to do. So I was at

10:04

home in Seattle, but I was still able to connect

10:06

remotely through your laptop over tail scale and then live

10:08

adjust the mixer. So we'd be like, hey Wes, can

10:10

you send this channel to output number two and then

10:12

go, okay, it's all done and he's not even in

10:15

the room, right? Or, you know, these are motorized sliders

10:17

too, so Wes will make an adjustment and I'll see

10:19

the sliders move. Oh, Wes is in there. Whoops, there's

10:21

a ghost in the machine. Yeah, exactly what it feels

10:23

like. I hope you let me out for a walk

10:25

sometimes. Yeah, you gotta walk here, Wes. But

10:28

it was pretty neat and to be able to

10:30

connect all of that together and even for our,

10:33

Brent has a little remote setup with a Paisel

10:35

7 and a microphone and a

10:37

little USB-C audio interface running Sonobus. And

10:40

Brent walks around and he can chat with the peoples

10:42

and we're doing that over tail scale because again, you

10:44

want to be able to direct connect back to the

10:47

machine to stream audio as reliably as possible. Well,

10:49

if this machine's on one Wi-Fi network and Brent's on

10:51

cellular, like how do you make a direct connection happen?

10:54

Well, the other thing is walking around the fest, I would jump

10:57

between networks, right? I'm in one building where we

10:59

have all of our booths and everything and that's

11:01

on one network. I walk outside, all

11:03

of a sudden I'm on the cell network, walk

11:05

into this building, I'm on a completely different

11:07

network again and everything just seems smooth. So

11:11

last night after day one, there was some after parties.

11:13

Did you guys have any interesting conversations or meet anybody

11:15

that was doing anything interesting at work? I

11:17

had so many interesting conversations, I kind of forgot to eat or

11:19

drink, anything. Yeah, double guilty on that

11:22

one. I didn't eat all day actually. We

11:24

left, there were appetizers provided at the social,

11:26

but I think we all left before or

11:28

just because those were arriving unfortunately. I

11:31

went all day, I went all day and did not

11:33

eat. But people just kept handing me drinks. What am

11:35

I going to say? No to a free drink? I'm

11:37

not an animal. Of course, I got to be, although

11:39

I do know some animals that said no to a free drink, but

11:42

I won't. I did learn that your queuing buffer

11:44

is fuller. Yeah, yeah, yeah,

11:46

yeah. Well, that got burned out at Terry

11:48

Black's in Texas because we queued twice. And

11:50

this size queued. I've got about a 45-minute

11:52

queue per year tolerance in me, and we

11:54

blew it out. We doubled it at Terry

11:57

Black's. And so when we got to dinner and

11:59

there was a long queue, I just... had to bail. I went back and

12:01

I tried to make myself do it and I couldn't do it. That

12:03

might have been one of the reasons I didn't get to eat is

12:05

the the queuing tolerance was

12:07

a little too low. You know I was in line like two positions

12:09

ahead of you both and waited

12:12

the queue because I'm a patient Canadian and

12:15

by the time and we're having actually excellent

12:17

discussions. Oh, sure. I just got, you know,

12:19

queued discussions. It's

12:21

like the hallway track but for food and

12:24

I finally got there

12:26

and I decided I'm gonna buy these guys a

12:28

drink. They're behind me, they don't have a chance

12:30

to buy a drink yet so I could do

12:32

a nice thing for my guys. We were gone?

12:35

Yeah, well they had two types of ciders. They

12:37

had a pineapple one. I know you like a

12:39

pineapple cider and like a hazy IPA for Wes

12:41

is kind of his style. Right? And so I'm

12:44

like juggling drinks and like my meal tickets and

12:46

stuff and I turn around and the place is

12:48

like there's no Wes, there's no Chris, they've left.

12:51

Yeah, we bailed. Well I had, I mean,

12:53

I thought I had a very effective anti-que sales

12:56

pitch and I was really trying to just

12:58

bring people into the anti-que, you know, fear

13:00

so that way I could just bring as many people

13:02

with me as possible. But speaking of

13:04

great beers, also, Listen to Jet Brat is this

13:06

incredibly spicy beer. I mean, it is, it

13:09

has a little bit of heat on the back end. It's got like

13:11

some pepper in there and it, boy, I tell

13:13

you what, I thought, well, you

13:15

know, I'll just crack a little bit open. I'll have this

13:17

with breakfast and eggs the other day. It's a little bit

13:19

too much. I had a nice chat with

13:21

a gentleman who does photolithography

13:24

for Intel. Really? Based out of

13:26

Portland and does, you know, microchip

13:28

manufacturing in the States. I

13:30

was under the incorrect compression from

13:33

the chips act, you know, stuff you see

13:35

in the news that America wasn't making microchips,

13:37

but that's not true. Yeah,

13:39

I think the takeaway I got from that conversation was is

13:42

maybe not like the three nanometer and five nanometer stuff,

13:44

but a lot of industry auto

13:48

appliances, you know, probably even

13:50

things like our mixer, they don't need three nanometers

13:52

CPUs in them. And those are, you know, those

13:54

larger, older, if you'll style

13:56

our RB manufacturing States. I learned to

13:59

also that a lot of the prototyping

14:01

happens here and then goes elsewhere for

14:03

kind of a mass production. So

14:05

that was fascinating. Yeah, I

14:08

guess you have to, right? Designed by Apple in California. Designed

14:12

by Intel. I think it holds true. We

14:14

go to these fast and there's a lot

14:16

to like and the audience is almost always

14:18

the highlight because somehow, invariably,

14:21

the audience is up to way cooler stuff

14:23

than we could ever imagine. Well,

14:25

they're not doing podcasts, they're doing real stuff. Yeah, they got time to do real

14:27

work, right? That was the universal truth

14:29

both here and in Texas. The hallway track

14:31

is why you should come to these things.

14:34

You lot, you people in front of us, you

14:37

are great. Yeah, I think the reality is we

14:39

get as much from being at the fest

14:41

from you that you hopefully get from us

14:44

at these fest. So huge thank you to

14:46

everyone. Yeah,

14:49

absolutely. collide.com/unplugged. You've probably heard me talk

14:51

about collide before. I think it's one

14:53

of those tools that if it was

14:55

around when I was in IT, I

14:58

would have stuck around for a little bit longer. But

15:00

did you hear that collide was just

15:02

recently acquired by one password? It's

15:04

a big deal. It's a big

15:06

deal because it's advancing their mission to

15:08

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15:11

not the exception. For

15:13

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15:16

has helped companies with Okta ensure that

15:18

only known and secure devices can access

15:20

your data. That means it

15:22

checks for fish credentials or make sure that the

15:24

system is compliant before it can connect to your

15:26

network. And they're still doing that, but

15:28

now they're doing it as part of one password. If

15:32

you got Okta and you've been meaning to check

15:34

out collide, now is a great time. Collide

15:37

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15:39

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15:41

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15:43

checks for just about anything. And

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you can use collide on devices that don't have MDM

15:47

software installed. So your Linux fleet, yep, you can manage

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15:52

Macs all from one dashboard. But

15:54

it also means contractor devices or

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every BYOD device somebody can think of and

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I have seen all kinds. Collide

16:01

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16:03

part of 1Password and they're only gonna get better.

16:06

So go support the show and check out Collide, see if it'll

16:08

work for you. Go to kolide.com

16:13

slash unplugged. Go learn how

16:15

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16:17

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16:20

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Go to kolide.com/unplugged. collide.com/

16:30

unplugged. And

16:35

so indeed we did Fest and we had the booth set

16:37

up. I mean for

16:39

almost all day yesterday we were chatting

16:41

with people as they came and as

16:43

they went and System 76 is here

16:45

and they're making big noise about Cosmic.

16:47

I think it's getting really, really close

16:50

and it sounds like it's like the final stuff but

16:52

there might have been one feature that

16:54

was kind of missed on their radar

16:56

until the LinuxFest Northwest presentation was looming.

16:59

We're getting there with Cosmic

17:01

and it's getting to the point where we're

17:03

close to releasing it so it's

17:06

the most exciting time of the project. It's the most

17:08

stressful time of the project but

17:10

it's also the time when you're pulling everything together and

17:13

finally start to show everyone what you've been working on

17:15

for this long. You know I didn't get to make

17:17

it to the talk unfortunately. I'm looking forward to listening

17:19

back but did you

17:21

present from Cosmic? Yes. Amazing.

17:24

The dog food. Fun story about

17:27

that. We landed

17:29

display cloning on Thursday. You might

17:31

need that. I don't know why. And

17:39

it worked beautifully. Good. Nothing

17:41

like a nice production test.

17:44

I didn't realize this. I gave a Cosmic presentation

17:46

at our factory six months

17:49

ago before we had cloning and I asked

17:51

Victoria who works on the

17:53

compositor. I asked her, how

17:55

do I clone my displays? Oh well, we

17:58

haven't done that yet. I

18:00

got to tell you what Cosmic D entails. It's

18:04

not taking

18:07

Nome or KDE or even

18:09

Qt or GTK or

18:12

existing compositor. Everything

18:15

is rushed from scratch. Every

18:17

widget, every switch, the compositor.

18:21

That is a lot of code to write.

18:23

I mean, great programming language or not. Yeah.

18:27

The workspace is the application library. We

18:30

call them applets. That's all the applications you

18:32

can add to panels, things like that. So

18:35

the whole thing is built from scratch in

18:37

Rust. And so when

18:40

you're building something like that, where a

18:42

window spawns when you open the window is

18:44

a decision, a design decision that you need

18:46

to make. Where the next one spawns on

18:48

top of it is a design decision, all

18:51

to the granular level. So

18:54

we didn't have cloning six months ago. And

18:56

I got to do a presentation. And

18:58

I did not realize how difficult it is

19:01

to give a presentation when you

19:03

don't have cloning. And you have

19:05

a mic in front of you, a screen

19:07

behind you, and you're a display in front of you. And

19:10

you have to somehow put all that together. Thankfully,

19:13

we landed it Thursday. Just

19:15

in time. And

19:17

yeah, they're building it. Was it Iced

19:19

Quest? Is that what they're using? Yeah.

19:22

They forked Iced and then made Libcosmic.

19:24

So if you want to start building on top of it, Libcosmic

19:27

is the thing to look out for. So can I

19:29

ask a stupid question at this point? I love a

19:31

stupid question. Cosmic is, does it,

19:33

so where did it fit in the stack?

19:35

Like, is Wayland in there? Like, is it

19:37

completely from the metal up? They've got their

19:40

own implementation of a Wayland compositor, also in

19:42

Rust. Yeah. I mean, they are doing a

19:44

ton of the lifts. Quite a lift, hey. Yeah, I

19:46

asked Carl, like, so are you concerned at all about

19:48

the mintification, if you will, of some of your apps?

19:50

Like, mint has a ton of x-apps that don't really

19:52

get used on other distributions. Are you going to go

19:54

create all these apps and nobody's going to use them?

19:56

And Carl said, well, then we haven't done

19:58

our job. Our job is to. to make

20:00

applications that people will want to run

20:05

in other distributions. And they're going to try to build those in a

20:07

way that's easy to move them around other distros. I

20:10

think the Rust helps there, right? I mean it's good at

20:12

packaging everything up. You

20:15

do a single binary or a couple things that you can run. I mean, System 76

20:17

is Aaron Honey that has been working hard to package that kind of stuff in Nix

20:19

already. So hey, you got it on Nix. That

20:21

probably means it's not too far away from other distros. So

20:25

the staff is working on Fedora. So

20:27

they're actively trying to make sure that

20:30

it will run on Fedora and on

20:32

Nix. And then of course it's in Ubuntu base, so

20:34

it will run on Ubuntu as well. Yeah,

20:37

there's a PPA out there if you want to try it there. What

20:40

I thought was interesting is, you know the infotainment

20:42

in our Volkswagen is running cute underneath. One of

20:44

the use cases Carl talked about for Cosmic was

20:46

automotive UIs or sort of embedded industrial

20:49

applications, which I thought was pretty cool. Yeah, I mean

20:51

I didn't realize that's how rod they were thinking until

20:53

I chatted with them. It also

20:55

sounds like they have been spending

20:57

time, including Carl, the CEO, going

20:59

hands-on with immutable Linux distributions and

21:01

trying to figure out where immutable

21:03

distributions might fit in for System

21:05

76 customers. And Carl

21:08

did himself a 30-day Nix OS challenge. And

21:11

he ran Nix OS for 30 days just to try to get

21:13

an idea of what's great and what's not great and what they

21:15

might want to implement. And he

21:17

thinks there's a way to kind of get a

21:20

lot of what you get from an immutable system, snapshots,

21:22

and sort of that you

21:24

specify it determinately and then it builds and

21:26

it either fails the build or it passes

21:28

without necessarily having to go the route of

21:30

Nix or even something like OSTree. You

21:33

know, I think it shows, right? Like System

21:35

76 is one of those few companies. The

21:38

other big OSes, which we won't name maybe,

21:40

but they've got the advantage of like they

21:42

have support teams. They interface with customers. They

21:45

know like what the customer thinks. But a

21:47

lot of the Linux stuff, it's developed by open source people. But

21:49

a lot of that ends up being like developing it for ourselves,

21:51

right? And there's not

21:53

a direct channel to like my mom, right? KD

21:56

on her desktop or something. But System 76 has

21:59

both of that. I'm curious to see what their take of

22:01

like, well here's the actual real problems

22:03

that our customer base is solving. And here's

22:05

how we think some of the techniques from

22:07

NixOS or Fedora Atomic can actually solve their

22:09

problems. Yeah, it's gonna be, I think it'll

22:11

be a bit of a journey, but I

22:13

mean they're actively researching that. So

22:15

I think they're really looking at building something

22:17

pretty unique as far as like a workstation

22:20

OS that everybody could use or power users

22:22

could use. I'm pretty excited because

22:24

I think it's really close. I think the cosmic release

22:26

is probably the next couple of months or so. I

22:29

think we're like in the final, final throws of version 1.0.

22:32

I bet we'll be trying it a little

22:34

bit before it's actually. Yeah, it was, no,

22:36

no, of course not. We

22:39

had the barbecue here at Linux Fest

22:41

Northwest as well. And my wife and

22:43

Emma from System 76 really came to

22:45

the rescue to get all that put together. It

22:49

of course was pouring

22:51

like crazy. You get

22:53

one or two things at the end of April

22:55

in the Pacific Northwest, beautiful weather that makes everybody

22:57

wanna move here or torrential rains that makes everybody

22:59

wanna stay away. So

23:02

we got the second one this time. We

23:04

did have some tents though, thanks to Olympia Mike

23:06

and others that brought tents and got things set

23:08

up really, really quick. And we

23:10

were live at the booth. They got everything over

23:13

there going and just kinda, we showed up and

23:15

we were ready to go and we

23:17

had to get started fast. I was impressed. Even

23:20

though Brent's not necessarily one of the meat eaters,

23:22

he jumped in and started grilling. The

23:24

barbecue has just begun. We have a

23:27

bunch of lava on one

23:29

side of the barbecue. And then, I

23:31

figure what we should do is

23:34

probably assign the vegetarian to

23:37

actually barbecue. And

23:40

you know what, Brent, you did pretty good. And then

23:42

Jeff slipped in there and then right

23:45

down to the last dog, Alex gets in there. For

23:47

Linux Fest thing right here. Yeah, we are definitely Linux

23:49

Fest, aren't we? Yeah. Yeah. I

23:52

love it. We're out of pogo's getting the food. Is

23:54

this the last part? Oh yeah. Is that

23:56

the last dog, dude? Yeah, at least it's the last

23:58

dog. Down to the last dog and then. When

24:00

that last dog finished getting grilled I Hold

24:03

my hand up to the air and I swear It

24:06

completely stopped raining to the second. Yeah To

24:09

the point where I'd send to Emma and said it stopped raining. She

24:11

stuck a hand out of the same way. Oh Can

24:14

you believe it Emma who was by that time

24:16

entirely soaked? She was very so Emma and Hadiya

24:18

were very damp Yeah, Levi was running around the

24:20

Levi the the RV dog was running around like

24:22

trying to avoid the rain But also very much

24:24

wanted to be in the action This is one

24:27

of his favorite things to do too. So what

24:29

a food spill on the ground. Someone's gonna clean

24:31

that up It's so funny

24:33

though because It was a

24:35

massive tranche of a barbecue and one side

24:37

of that thing was like, you know 800

24:40

degrees and so if you were standing in front of

24:42

the barbecue long enough, it would just dry your clothes

24:44

How's your arm hair listener Jeff? Yeah,

24:47

yeah, I think Jeff lost a little bit of hair serving

24:49

up hot dogs. I think Yeah,

24:52

that chart that chunk charcoal barbecue gets really

24:54

really hot nobody tell the health department Yeah,

24:58

anyway the hairs Okay, he

25:00

Jeff says he had fire pants on so he was good. It

25:02

was it's just as top we would have to worry about but

25:05

it's so much fun and I'm

25:07

very grateful that this time I mostly just showed

25:09

up and got to eat hot dogs and didn't

25:11

have to do all of the Grilling that was

25:13

really nice And it meant that we

25:16

could focus on the live stream and do the boost

25:18

stuff and work out the kink still and do that

25:20

Kind of thing. I was impressed with the folks showing

25:22

up I mean, you know coming down the rain standing

25:24

people brought rain gear It didn't stop any of the

25:26

great conversations. It was a little party out in the

25:28

party I know we were yakking it up and you

25:30

know what when you're from the Pacific Northwest you just

25:32

you get used to it Yeah, I'm getting a hair

25:34

wash. It's totally fine. You

25:36

know, it was some pretty wet rain that though

25:39

It was wasn't it? It was coming down hard

25:41

and fast. I know But

25:44

it was still fun We have been

25:46

asking people this week what their very first Linux

25:48

box experience was and one of the audience members

25:51

Brian Also known as boy in the matrix chat

25:53

has joined us Brian. Hello. Welcome to the show

25:55

Hey, thanks. So tell us about your very first

25:57

Linux box. You remember what it was? Yeah, it

25:59

was some kind of one

26:02

of those wall wart server

26:04

things. That's unique. Yup, I

26:06

know. Wow. Yeah, so

26:09

I used a Mac, I went really

26:11

into Apple, and I

26:14

had never heard of SSH, but

26:16

I SSHed in and kind

26:18

of found instructions online and

26:21

poked around, so that was the start. And

26:23

then I had a Mac tie book, so

26:26

I installed Ubuntu on that, and

26:28

then I was like, I wanna get

26:30

a ThinkPad. So I found

26:33

a used T61, which

26:35

I still have, and love. I

26:38

get ThinkPads all the time now. Get them

26:40

cheap used. Anyway, but I

26:42

switched away from Apple, and

26:45

kinda got interested in low

26:48

powered servers and things like

26:51

that, so anyway. I share that passion. My

26:53

ears really lit up when you said T61, primarily

26:57

because my parents, my father, used

26:59

a T61 for years to do

27:01

just work stuff, and

27:04

these days it's running their home server,

27:06

and that thing just keeps trucking. It's

27:08

bulletproof, and I'm curious, for

27:10

your T61, is it

27:13

still doing stuff? No, I mean,

27:15

I fire it up occasionally, but no. But

27:17

I can't bear to get rid of it.

27:19

Yeah. Nostalgic computers, I

27:21

totally understand that. What's your

27:24

daily driver these days? It's a ThinkPad, I

27:27

can't remember. You became a ThinkPad man, I appreciate

27:29

it. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, anyway. Is it the

27:31

Linux compatibility that drove you there? I

27:33

think so. They're easy

27:35

to fix, they're easy to upgrade,

27:37

take apart, so I've got two

27:39

kids, and I buy them

27:42

used ThinkPads. That's such a great way to

27:44

go. Yeah, yep. Well

27:46

Brian, thank you for sharing that with us. Appreciate it. Thank

27:48

you. Morgan

27:52

stepped up to the booth, and

27:54

Morgan, I'd love to hear about your very

27:56

first Linux PC. Oh, wow. It

27:59

was a... Home built 486. Running,

28:04

I installed Slackware 3.1, I think it was at

28:06

the time. That must have

28:08

been a process. It was, number of floppies. How

28:11

did you even get your hands on the floppies?

28:13

Did you download them and write them all to

28:15

you? Yes, I did actually. I downloaded the images

28:17

on my Windows machine and made

28:20

the floppies and turned around and

28:22

reformatted it. Man, that is

28:24

a level of dedication that you just don't have

28:27

to put into today. It wasn't required. It was

28:29

a process, yes. And then once you get

28:31

it installed, you never want to reinstall again. Yeah,

28:33

no, it was mostly recompiling the kernel after that

28:35

and getting a window manager up and running. Isn't

28:37

that the funny thing though? Today,

28:40

if you mess a system up, you'll

28:42

try to fix it for a little bit, but if you

28:44

got to reload, it's not a big deal. But

28:47

back then, that would have been a

28:49

whole day to reinstall. It was, yeah. Yeah,

28:52

I spent a lot of time just troubleshooting and fixing

28:54

the problems as I went along. Wow,

28:56

good for you. An old 486 didn't

28:59

even have a CPU fan on it. It

29:01

did, actually. Oh, it did, yeah, yeah, it did.

29:03

Must have had a turbo button on that. Yeah,

29:05

it did indeed, yes. Well,

29:08

I assume it's not still kicking,

29:10

right? No, no, it's been, it's

29:13

long gone, so. What are you using these days?

29:16

Oh, at the moment, I'm using a MacBook

29:18

Pro. All right, all right. You know, you could put

29:20

nicks on that and then we wouldn't have any problems.

29:22

That makes me feel better. The thought has occurred to

29:24

me, so. Lemurians, thank

29:26

you very much. All right, thank you. It's a great story.

29:32

Another brave soul joins us up at the booth.

29:34

AlkaSatt is here, and AlkaSatt, tell me about your

29:36

first Linux box. I'm pretty sure

29:39

it was in NEC Pentium II

29:41

in 1999, which

29:44

is the only brand new computer I've ever had.

29:47

Really? But anyway, yeah, in 1999,

29:49

my girlfriend at the time was

29:53

reading in a newspaper and she discovered Linux. She

29:55

told me and said, you might be interested in

29:57

this. And so that was really cool. She

29:59

knew you. Yeah, yeah. You remember when

30:01

NEC and all those different companies back

30:03

then were making PCs? There were so

30:05

many PC manufacturers. Yes, a lot.

30:08

Yeah, I didn't realize NEC had hung on actually

30:10

quite that long. Do you remember anything about the

30:12

box? Yeah, I still have it,

30:14

but I haven't touched it for a few years. Oh,

30:16

I love that you still have it. Yeah, the

30:19

last time I used it was probably seven years ago,

30:21

and it was still functional. You ever think about firing

30:23

it back up again? Oh, maybe. I

30:25

know, there's a lot of things to do. Are we going

30:27

to have to do a second round of the 32-bit challenge

30:29

here? Sounds like a good contender. How

30:31

big is it? Is it a big

30:33

box? No, it was a standard, maybe even

30:36

slightly smaller than a standard desktop size at

30:38

the time. Neat. Yeah. What a collector's piece.

30:40

You should hold on to that forever. Yeah,

30:42

well, I tend to do that with everything.

30:45

All right, so what's your rig these

30:48

days? A MacBook, a ThinkPad, a Chromebook? Yeah,

30:51

so I have a lot of

30:53

old ThinkPads. The

30:55

newest one is a T420, which is pretty cool. Let's

30:59

see, I also have an old Chromebook. I actually

31:01

have a few old Chromebooks. If we need this

31:03

bare rig, I think we know how to turn

31:05

it. Right. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, definitely. Can

31:08

I ask you, you seem to have a love for used

31:11

machines or refurbishing them. I'm

31:13

curious, why go that

31:15

route? Because I have, I got feelings about

31:17

this, but I'm curious about yours. So I find

31:20

that reuse is usually better than

31:22

recycling and definitely better than landfill

31:24

for e-waste. I used to volunteer

31:26

at an organization called FreeGeek in

31:29

Portland. We even tried to

31:31

start one in Seattle. There's actually still

31:33

some in Canada that I think

31:35

still are running the FreeGeek. Oh, good. And

31:38

with the FreeGeek, basically, people could come and

31:40

donate their old computer hardware and other hardware,

31:43

sorry, other electronic hardware. And

31:45

what we can't refurbish and

31:47

build ourselves, the volunteers, into

31:50

usable PCs with running Linux. We

31:53

recycle in the United States without sending

31:56

it to a poor country. And like usually

31:58

happens with e-waste. So that's

32:00

kind of my main thing with the so I'm

32:02

really happy to hear that you use still using

32:05

the the XP old the old Sputnik here. Yeah

32:09

Yeah, it's a it's still still hanging on

32:11

the the ports might be a little

32:13

maybe a little loose But it's hanging on that back at

32:15

the Jupiter Broadcasting Studio. There's a bit of a computer museum

32:17

as you might an Unintentional

32:20

computer museum is certainly one. Are you are

32:22

you throwing shade right? No, they're there to

32:24

use if we need them or part out

32:27

Yeah, or maybe put on the walls of

32:29

the decorations. How cool would that be? Especially

32:31

if it was like it exploded, you know,

32:33

just all the bars on a board. Well,

32:36

thank you. Thank you fascinating story Really appreciate

32:38

that And

32:43

yet another brave soul of the culture name

32:45

my name is Tristan hello Tristan and what

32:47

was your first Linux box So it was

32:49

I I think it was

32:51

yeah doll precision E400

32:55

was that there one of their very first Ubuntu

32:57

machines It was actually a running XP but

32:59

in the middle of eighth grade while everyone's

33:01

learning to type in IT class My

33:04

buddy passes me a CD. Oh And

33:07

it's I look at this check this out. Yeah, and he

33:09

I'm what I look at his computer I was like, I

33:11

don't recognize that OS because I've

33:13

run Mac OS at home and this guy

33:15

has When you know

33:17

if on to six or six or six or and

33:20

so in the middle of our computer lab

33:24

Just boot up on Awesome,

33:26

you know one of my very first Linux

33:28

experiences was in a computer lab, too It

33:31

was hey, what are you running

33:33

over? That's not Windows and I think it

33:35

was some very old version of gnome or

33:37

something like that It looks so cool. And

33:39

so oh, yeah, so different than Windows at

33:41

the time. Yeah, just completely different window manager.

33:43

Yeah Yeah, I then

33:45

went and proceeded to delete my entire file system

33:47

and that was one of my first experiences with

33:49

Linux Yeah, yeah, you know it expanded to Next

33:53

girlfriend and I've never covered follow-up files and

33:55

the only systems I could app

33:57

the recover files with photo rack And

34:01

suddenly I'm nose deep in the command line,

34:03

14 years old trying to

34:05

recover this girl's foot phone file. Yes,

34:08

of course. Oh gosh, man.

34:10

But you know what? That's

34:12

how you learn, right? Oh yeah. Did

34:15

you actually get the files? Oh,

34:17

I did. Absolutely. Yeah, absolutely.

34:20

And now it's just another

34:22

tool and we'll have it there. Absolutely.

34:25

Well, thank you. That's a great story. Appreciate it. And

34:33

another great soul joins us here. Brian, welcome.

34:36

And tell us about your very first Linux

34:38

machine. Actually, my first

34:40

Linux machine is sitting right over by my

34:43

seat right now. It's my school laptop. Okay.

34:45

So you're a new Linux user? Fairly

34:48

new. Yeah, I'm about two years now. Tell us about

34:50

the machine. I mean, it's

34:52

an old Windows, let's see,

34:54

it was a Windows 7 laptop. It's

34:57

a Dell Aspire 5530 something or whatever.

35:01

Nice. Yeah,

35:03

it was reaching

35:05

the end of its life as a Windows machine and I

35:08

needed a laptop for school. Yeah. What district did you

35:10

put on there? Ubuntu. 2004, I

35:12

think it is. Yeah. New 2404 is out.

35:17

Yes. Might be time for an upgrade. Yeah.

35:20

Once I get through school, then I can

35:22

actually safely delete everything from it. This is

35:24

a person with sense of humor. You don't

35:26

upgrade before an important day. I thought that's

35:28

the move. I don't know. I

35:31

feel like the important time to upgrade is

35:33

finals week, right? Yeah, right. Right during finals.

35:36

When things get really busy. Yeah. All

35:39

right. Well, thank you very much. Yeah, thanks, guys. Great

35:41

to hear. Last

35:44

one. Anybody else? Last one. And

35:47

our last brave soul this week joins us

35:49

here at the booth. Mark, tell me about

35:52

your first Linux PC. So when I

35:54

started my Linux journey, it was in

35:56

early high school, but I didn't have

35:58

the broadband Internet. was just becoming a

36:01

thing. But I lived in the middle of

36:03

nowhere. I had dial-up internet. So

36:05

this is around early Buntoo stages when they were

36:07

shipping CDs. So I remember ordering

36:10

a bunch of Buntoo CDs and I

36:12

wiped my family computer out. How

36:14

did they take that? They didn't like that.

36:16

So eventually I got some hand-me-down computers. They

36:19

were like, we've got to give this kid

36:21

his own thing. We

36:23

did that for a while, but then I started

36:25

learning about other things like Gen 2 and stuff.

36:27

So I have a fond memory of three

36:30

days of trying to compile the

36:32

kernel for Gen 2 on a Pentium 3. And

36:36

I came into the room and it actually just

36:38

failed on the compile and I gave up. So

36:40

that was my last Gen 2 experience. Does

36:43

it still take three days? I think it does.

36:45

I mean, if you do it wrong. Yeah, on

36:47

a Pentium 3 probably. Yeah, with a CRT screen

36:49

too, right? So you got to make the call,

36:51

like, do I leave this super high-energy using screen

36:53

on so I can keep checking? Do I come

36:55

back and clunk and turn it on and off

36:57

to check on it? I was in

36:59

the very... Don't even get me started on trying

37:02

to build the plasma desktop. That just took forever

37:04

too. That one still does.

37:06

Yeah, that's true. You get the kernel and then that

37:08

finally gets working. Then you got to

37:10

build plasma. So tell me about your current Linux box.

37:13

Well, all my boxes are Linux basically.

37:15

So I run a mixture of Arch and

37:18

NixOS and across custom computers, mostly

37:20

like custom desktops, but my current laptop

37:22

is a T480S and I have

37:27

probably many of us have a museum wall

37:29

of old ThinkPads and other devices of various

37:32

eras. I'm glad to know I'm not the only one. Yeah,

37:34

this is making me feel better about our choices. We

37:37

should do it more often. Well, thank you,

37:39

sir. That's a great story. Really appreciate it.

37:47

Let's see over here. So I've got Jose

37:50

here in the crowd and I think those who know Linux Unplugged

37:54

might recognize Jose. Jose, you

37:56

have come a little

37:58

ways to get here. Can you introduce yourself

38:00

for those who might not know you and where you

38:03

came from? Sure. My

38:05

name is Jose Vanez. I

38:08

came here from Puerto Rico. I'm

38:10

out here with my

38:12

company, my small business, Blind Penguin. I'm

38:15

blind, so I name my business, Penguin.

38:17

I'm here with my wife, the branch

38:19

of the company, and my

38:21

business partner who's also in some of

38:23

the talks and just came here to

38:25

networking or sponsoring some of the event

38:28

because we really wanted to do it and

38:30

just here to network and have some fun. Amazing.

38:33

And can you give us a sense of what you

38:35

do in your business? Yes.

38:38

We're a software development company.

38:42

Right now we do a lot of work with

38:44

the local government and the US

38:46

federal government, basically

38:49

backend, web development,

38:51

APIs, database management,

38:54

and a lot of cloud infrastructure like

38:56

Azure and AWS. And we also

38:58

have some private clients where

39:00

we do some mobile development and

39:03

we are starting our venture now into

39:05

the open source sphere

39:08

and let's see how it goes for us. Now

39:11

last night we met at the social event and you

39:13

were mentioning a project that you're working on that I

39:15

think you're quite excited about. Yeah.

39:19

I'm a super fan of movies. I love movies. I

39:22

love sitting down and having

39:24

the cinema experience and I've always

39:27

ran like a jell-a-fin or a

39:29

plex client at home and bought

39:32

by the Blu-ray and read them. And

39:34

there's always been some features that I wanted. So

39:37

I decided to build my own. It's

39:40

like a little dream that

39:42

I have. And so I started building my

39:44

own from scratch with features that I wish

39:47

jell-a-fin or plex had. And

39:49

especially for me as a blind person who wants

39:51

to play movies and music for his family, the

39:54

other clients for the other servers are

39:57

not very good with screen readers. Sometimes

40:01

I'm like, okay, so let's, my family goes like,

40:03

let's watch this movie. And then I'm like, and

40:07

then the screen reader is still reading like the previous menu.

40:09

And I'm like, I'm almost there. Just a

40:11

bit. You're there. Click.

40:14

And I'm like, oh, okay, sure. So, uh, I love

40:17

it. And this will be a, the name of the

40:19

app is igloo because blind

40:21

penguin lives and watches movies on an igloo.

40:24

And uh, that was my wife's idea.

40:27

And I'm hoping to release it in

40:30

about a month or

40:32

so and I'll be sure to

40:34

let you guys know it's, it will be available

40:36

for Android. It'll have a web client, all native.

40:39

And yeah, that's my passion project. Amazing.

40:42

And if someone feels inspired by that, where can they go

40:44

to get in touch with you? I

40:47

have a GitHub account. It's

40:49

a Spanish name. Uh,

40:51

Jibana is 74, but we also have

40:54

our website, blindpenguincoder.com.

40:57

You can go there and get in touch with us and

40:59

we'll be sure to answer you as soon as possible. Uh,

41:02

how are you both doing? Introduce yourselves

41:05

first and where you came from. I'm

41:07

Peyton. I'm from Cloverdale, BC. Um,

41:10

and this is my dad and he's also from

41:12

Cloverdale, BC. Hi, dad. What's your

41:14

name? Uh, Peyton's dad. No, my name's Jared.

41:18

Yeah, I'm the driver. I've been two

41:20

days of listening and I don't

41:23

really know. I really enjoyed the pizza.

41:25

The barbecue was awesome yesterday. I've

41:28

been enjoying watching my son smile and learn and

41:30

get excited and looking at me

41:32

for more money. I have

41:34

more stuff to do more things. Well

41:37

I'm curious then, like what has you interested

41:39

in being here? How'd you hear about this?

41:42

Um, well I got into Linux on

41:45

the Chromebook with the Linux development environment

41:47

because I wanted to run Blender. And

41:50

then I found Jupiter Broadcasting because I got

41:53

more interested in Linux. I installed it on

41:55

a bunch of different systems. And

41:58

then I heard you guys talk about this and I really wanted to come and see you. see

42:00

the community because you guys sounded so excited about all

42:02

of it and I'm so happy I found it. It's

42:04

so much fun. Nice. And

42:07

when did you first kind of take that journey? How long

42:09

ago was that? It was about two years ago.

42:11

I was with one of my friends. We

42:13

were making a game in Unity and

42:15

he wanted a 3D character so I wanted

42:18

to install Blender but the Chromebook wouldn't do

42:20

it so I got a Linux environment going

42:22

and then I wiped all my stuff and

42:25

I just reinstalled Linux. So I was like, why would I have Chrome OS? That's

42:30

amazing and how did that process go

42:32

because it used to be a

42:34

little bit more difficult but I've heard recently even

42:36

here this weekend that it's getting easier and easier.

42:38

Yeah, the built-in Linux

42:41

development environment on Chrome OS is

42:43

really amazing, really great. Just

42:45

got updated to Debian 12 Bookworm so that's

42:47

great and then I installed it, PopOS

42:50

on an old Mac Mini that we had that

42:52

we were using as a media center and now

42:54

it's running Nix OS and I've got a flake

42:56

running and that's controlling all my systems. Okay,

42:59

well now I feel inadequate. So

43:02

dad, how does it feel to have Linux

43:04

begin to infect the home? How's

43:07

that feeling? What's the thing where

43:09

you took over all my switches? Yeah,

43:11

I had all my houses

43:13

all wired up and then all of a sudden my son

43:16

jokes one day and he's like, dad, check this out and

43:18

I look at it and he's like, got all our security

43:20

cameras, all the switches, the

43:22

fireplace and I'm like, oh

43:25

boy, here we go. So I

43:27

was no longer the boss of the home

43:29

automation system. I was

43:31

just shocked he didn't even need a password or nothing

43:33

to do it. He just did what I was like.

43:37

That sounds really exciting. And

43:41

now it is time for the boost.

43:44

And Bear 454 is

43:47

our baller booster this week with 98,225

43:49

stats. This

44:00

was his last year and so he wanted to send in this

44:02

note I think and he said so happy to have you all

44:04

here at Linux fest Northwest 2024 special Thanks

44:07

to our partners Bellingham technical

44:09

college Cascade

44:11

steam and Jupiter

44:14

broadcasting and of course the

44:16

title sponsor of Linux fest Northwest tail

44:19

scale I

44:25

don't know if you brought your map. I don't know if

44:28

I brought your man. I brought the mobile version Okay, good

44:30

get that out because it is in fact a zip code

44:32

boost. Oh right in the eye West It

44:35

was mobile. It's both to have our safety glasses on for this

44:37

part Okay,

44:39

well we had 98,000

44:44

225 sets which is actually the zip code right here

44:46

in Bellingham, Washington. Oh, that was an easy one bear

44:48

I could have figured that out. Why did you unfold

44:50

the map so much if you you've lived here, right?

44:52

I think you just wanted to hit me in the

44:54

eyeball. That's right I should you know, I should have

44:56

looked at that and recognized that was a Washington Yeah,

45:00

the 98 kind of gives it. Yeah, it does.

45:02

It does You know, I've been enjoying all weekend

45:04

is that the abbreviation for Bellingham technical college? BTC

45:07

BTC it every time I'm like,

45:09

oh no, right, right and

45:11

outside. There is a sign that says BTC

45:13

Moose Center No, are you

45:15

serious? No, it almost it says more something

45:17

Oh moose centered walking past it with Brandon

45:19

says moose Yeah, bring our own sign. Yeah,

45:22

see that Eric deep

45:24

boosted in with 50,000 sets boost First

45:28

time joining a live stream sounds like you

45:30

guys are having fun. Oh, hey. Thank you.

45:32

Eric. Thank you very much accurate We were

45:35

yeah, you know hanging out with us on

45:37

day one and we appreciate that boost now

45:39

We got a boost from I think a

45:41

new booster here listener Jeff it says hmm

45:46

23,222 Satoshi's over two boosts and one

45:48

of those is a row of McDuck's

45:50

who is kindly Now

45:53

there are two messages here. The first one says

45:55

alive ducks from Linux fest Northwest I think that's

45:57

from one of our streams yesterday. Thank you, Jeff

45:59

and the other Everyone simply says, Chris's

46:02

kids are crazy. Yeah, the

46:04

trolls of Linux Fest Northwest. You

46:07

bring your kids here for basically their entire life,

46:09

they basically know the place, they start to

46:11

think they're running the place. I gotta

46:13

lock them down in the RV or something like that. I

46:15

mean, someday, if we're lucky, they will be. Oh,

46:18

maybe they will be, yeah, that's true. Maybe that's how it starts. Ensignix,

46:22

kind of feels like it's Ensignix, but with

46:24

an E-N, N-S. How about Ensignix? Oh,

46:27

you're the Ensignix. I think it's Ensignix, yeah.

46:29

Oh, come on. Can we just, can we get

46:32

consensus here? Can we just get consensus? They send

46:34

in a row of McDucks. Thank you kindly. And

46:36

they say, if I lived in the US,

46:38

I'd be very interested in a camping event.

46:40

In the UK, we have EMFCamp at emfcamp.org.

46:43

It's more of a temporary town than a group of

46:46

friends camping together, but you gotta start somewhere, right? Interesting,

46:49

have you heard of this? Like a temporary town that

46:51

people camp at? I have heard

46:53

in Germany of CCC Camp, I believe

46:55

it is, that

46:58

happens every four years. I think it happened just this

47:00

last year, and I was invited to go, because

47:02

I was there, and I missed it

47:04

by a day because of cross-Atlantic flights

47:06

and all. But this

47:09

concept is really attractive. It's almost like

47:11

Burning Man for nerds. Yeah, maybe you

47:13

could have some talks, make it into

47:15

an event. I like it. But

47:18

we need internet. Yeah, that's true. Oh no,

47:20

no, no, they set up an

47:22

entire local internet for the

47:24

entire city, quote unquote. And

47:27

it's this whole production. They've got it all figured out. They

47:29

know what we want. Really, really, okay. He

47:31

also gives us a shout out for our fest coverage and

47:33

says he hopes he can make it, and then Craig says

47:35

plus one for Deep Space Nine being

47:37

the best Star Trek series, by the way. See

47:40

what I'm saying about our smart audience? Wow, okay, we

47:42

got some agreement in the audience. You think so over

47:44

TNG though? I

47:47

mean, could there even be a Deep Space Nine if there wasn't

47:49

a TNG? Obviously the answer is no. So

47:51

therefore does that make TNG better? I think it's

47:53

up for debate, but can't argue

47:55

with the generous booster. Which season one

47:58

is worse? I'm not sure. Oh,

48:00

probably TNG. Probably TNG.

48:03

Complete noobs boost in with 21,233. Coming

48:08

in hot with the boost. Across a

48:10

couple of boosts, but the first

48:12

one here, I managed to install

48:14

NixOS with ZFS and encryption on

48:16

root. Nice. And then noobs links

48:19

us to a blog post about how they did it. We'll

48:21

have that in the show notes. Now

48:23

I just kind of finished working out how to

48:25

dual boot with FreeBSD with encryption

48:27

on root for both. This

48:30

is something I want to check out. So the

48:32

same file system being accessed by FreeBSD and NixOS.

48:35

At different times? What could go wrong? I'd

48:38

love to see NixOS anyway do this with

48:40

an encrypted politician. NixOS anywhere

48:42

converting a FreeBSD box. That

48:45

I want to see. Okay, stay tuned. That's

48:48

pretty great. Good job noobs. Thanks for

48:50

the link too, appreciate it. Now we got a

48:52

boost from the open source accountant across two boosts,

48:55

2,250 satoshis. I'm

48:59

plus one for the camping. Hey, good

49:01

to know. I'm starting to

49:03

like where this is headed because I'm in the

49:05

plus one category as well. Good, good. In case

49:07

you missed it, we are tossing around the idea

49:09

of a JB camping meetup. So if you out

49:11

there like open source accountant are interested, keep boosting

49:13

in because we're trying to see if there's a

49:15

critical mass for it. Right, and if we had

49:17

enough people, I'd even kind of entertain the idea

49:19

of maybe a couple of talks to share skills

49:21

and things like that. It just depends on how

49:23

big it gets. Open source accountant

49:25

was gonna be here and saying hi to us

49:28

all, but the car broke down on

49:30

the way up here. Such a bummer.

49:32

Our thoughts are with you. Some West Payne guy

49:34

boosted in with 4,714 sat. Look

49:38

at you boosting your own show. Hey, I gotta

49:40

use the zat somehow, right? Keep them flowing. Yeah,

49:42

it's a good way to test too, right? It's

49:44

very true. MSE0135 comes in with a total of

49:46

2,500 sat. Coming

49:50

in hot with the boost. I mean, they were responding

49:52

to a couple of different things. I'm curious why VS

49:54

code has become so popular on Linux. You

49:57

know, especially when you got VM and Emacs out there

49:59

in particular. It seems to have all the

50:01

features people like in VS Code and more. Alex,

50:04

you were getting pretty heavy into Emacs there

50:06

for a while. Yeah, Emacs was my COVID

50:08

hobby. Some people did bread making,

50:10

some people did meat smoking. Well, you did a little of

50:12

that. I did Emacs for a while. I

50:15

think it comes down to closing that last 10% usability.

50:19

VS Code and VS Codeian

50:21

by extension are defined by

50:23

their extension databases, the add-ons that you can get,

50:25

and it's just one click to add a GitHub

50:28

co-pilot thing in there or a YAML interpreter or

50:30

whatever. Emacs is

50:32

great. It really is. Once

50:35

you get into the flow and get the things under

50:37

your fingers, you can move at light speed. Then

50:40

you think, I'm on the bus and I just want to

50:42

do this one thing and... It

50:45

just doesn't quite... Also, I think what adds a

50:47

lot of pressure is the network effect around the

50:50

releases of things that are now almost VS Code

50:52

exclusive. There are several things that

50:54

are just designed to just plug into VS

50:56

Code, and they don't even release their

50:58

own main application. You've got to use VS Code as

51:00

the front end. I've stopped using Git on the command

51:03

line almost entirely now. I just do all my Git

51:05

workflows in the VS Code plugin that's right there. Also,

51:08

remote SSH is amazing.

51:12

Well, there you go, Massey. I think that's maybe answered it.

51:14

They do point out that you can do some of

51:16

the remote SSH stuff with Emacs, and I think that's

51:18

part of it is you can make each of

51:20

them work like the other. They're super

51:22

flexible, but Emacs, you kind of

51:25

got to learn. You got to look. There are

51:27

distributions of Emacs now to make it really easy

51:29

and get simple to get started with, but VS

51:32

Code is just that way out of the box. Another

51:34

nice thing about VS Code as well is you can

51:36

run it in a container or something as a server,

51:38

like VS Code Server. Yeah,

51:41

or the web version and just use it. I can

51:43

have it on any box available in a browser too.

51:46

On GitHub, if you're logged in and you press the full

51:48

stop key, the period key, it will bring up VS Code

51:50

of the repo you're looking at. Microsoft have done an amazing

51:52

job with that piece of software. The

51:56

one thing I'll give to Emacs is it's a

51:58

great excuse to learn Lisp. Yeah, there you go. The

52:02

other thing with VS Code is it

52:04

allows you not to have to leave the application,

52:06

right? So you can, like, there's an extension

52:08

of everything. Like, you want to see the PDF, that's an extension. You

52:10

want to generate the PDF, that's an extension. And

52:12

so you get to this part where it almost

52:15

becomes like a pseudo-operating system, like I have the

52:17

one application to do all the things. Yeah, absolutely.

52:19

Although I swear that's what the Emacs guys used

52:21

to say, too. There it is. Finally,

52:24

I'll get a good text letter, someday. Erza

52:27

CC comes in with $2,674. Fun

52:32

will now commence. Actually, that's two

52:34

rounds of Leap Boost, so that's fun.

52:37

The first one's just a wave, but the second one, warming

52:39

up to start with NixOS by listening to

52:41

your podcast. That I

52:43

discovered by searching for NixOS. Whoa, that's

52:46

how you know we're probably talking about it too much.

52:49

Currently I do everything by a bunch of server and Docker

52:51

Compose, but I do like the

52:53

idea of a declarative operating system. You might

52:55

check out Olympia Mike's talk on

52:57

the Linux Fest YouTube channel, and then after that watch

52:59

Wes's talk. Because Olympia Mike will set you up with

53:02

some of the primers for NixOS, and then Wes comes

53:04

in and shows you how to convert any system. Why

53:06

not both? Docker Compose on top of NixOS.

53:08

For sure. NixOS is a great place

53:11

to run containers. I agree. Yeah. And

53:13

Mr. Pibb boosted in with a total of 4,444 sets, and I think

53:15

that's two rows of ducks. Oh,

53:20

you did the math? You did the math? I can

53:22

do the Earth thinking. Good thinking. I was doing it, and

53:24

I was actually thinking it was a ludicrous boost, but

53:26

I think you're right. I mean,

53:28

I'll give them one. Boom. A little

53:30

bit of ducks. Now they're responding to

53:32

our ask for the top five Linux

53:34

first installed applications, and here they say,

53:36

number one, tail scale. Tail

53:39

scale? Yeah, yo. Number

53:41

two, proton VPN. Number three, Nixcloud. Hey.

53:44

Hey. Number four, VS Codeum. And

53:46

number five, fish. Look at that. They

53:48

cover this both. Yeah, I'm

53:51

loving fish, obviously, Nixcloud, but

53:53

tail scale and proton VPN?

53:56

What are we doubling up on the VPN there for? You got places

53:58

to go? I assume one of those. be

54:00

using the old mold ad integration

54:02

or whatnot. Proton is for securing

54:05

the stuff and just being the exit node or maybe you

54:07

need to appear in other countries or something. Exactly. They want

54:09

to appear like they're far away. Now

54:11

I learned recently that one of us sitting at

54:13

this here table from

54:15

that episode gave fish

54:18

a go. Oh really? Uh-huh.

54:21

From the top five. Oh yeah, that's true. Oh yeah, no. Oh

54:23

yeah, no. I installed it in about

54:25

10 minutes, I'm afraid. Oh,

54:27

I like fish. I couldn't get it integrated with my Nix

54:29

config properly and I was about to get on a plane

54:31

so I just reverted to ZSH. On

54:34

macOS it was a bit of a pain, I'm afraid, with

54:36

Nick Starwin. Sometimes you gotta go with what you know. Sometimes

54:39

you do. He also says he's looking

54:41

forward to the Cosmic Showcase from System 76. They

54:44

had a booth there with several laptops ready to

54:46

go. Brandon Ell comes in

54:48

with 3,337 sets. We're

54:51

gonna have to go right to Ludacris speed.

54:53

I feel like being Ludacris. My first Linux

54:55

box was a 386, 33

54:59

megahertz system with probably 4 megabytes of

55:01

RAM. What was great is that it

55:03

was mine. It was a hand-me-down from my uncle so I couldn't

55:05

break the 486 of the family. Yeah.

55:10

What was awful is pretty much everything. I

55:12

remember loading Slackware from a couple of... Is

55:14

it... What?

55:16

Is this another Slackware user or is this the

55:18

same person? This is... Wow,

55:20

okay. All three of

55:22

them have written in at some point. And I

55:24

got three of them. Actually,

55:27

if you're gonna also go that far back, there's only

55:29

so many distributions you could have possibly used. Do you

55:31

remember though, seriously, being in this situation where you've got

55:33

one, maybe two computers in the house and that's the

55:35

internet. You have to go to school the next day

55:38

and print out the instructions and bring them home and

55:40

figure out what you screwed up. Do

55:42

you think we could install... Like, can we install

55:44

2404 from Floppy if we really try? Can we

55:46

get a challenge going? How many Floppies were there?

55:49

How big do you think? I'd say 100 Floppies.

55:51

We'll have to also get a USB Floppy drive

55:53

because I don't have one. Compression has come a

55:55

long way, Chris. Mmm, so do a little XZ

55:57

compression perhaps. Maybe we'll try a help point. something

56:00

small. Oh,

56:02

now you're going to Alpine, huh? The Ubuntu desktop mice,

56:04

there's 5.7 gigs now. Okay,

56:07

alright. Absolute-icrous! That's

56:09

big! You

56:11

know, they're celebrating 20 years, they're going big. You

56:13

know, he says it was a life-changing

56:16

experience, leading to an IT career,

56:18

and building a company, and learning Linux at open source.

56:20

That's pretty cool. It's not a story, it's just so, I

56:23

mean, we hear it, but it's wonderful every time. I mean,

56:25

a little bit of tinkering here, and then the whole

56:27

career out of it. Yeah, yeah. I mean, you start

56:29

at something, you think it's going to be small, and

56:31

you go so far with it. Our

56:34

buddy Jordan Bravo boosts in with 10,101 satoshis.

56:38

It's over 9,000! Back

56:41

in 2017, I'd been running Windows for

56:43

many years, and I was fed up

56:46

with constantly jumping through hoops to take

56:48

back even a shred of privacy from

56:50

my operating system. People in

56:52

the privacy community had been recommending Linux, so

56:55

I finally took the plunge. I

56:57

installed Ubuntu 2016.04 onto

56:59

my clunky HP laptop, and

57:01

I've been using Linux ever since. Although,

57:04

these days, I'm running NixOS, of

57:06

course. By the way, would

57:09

you actually like to know how many floppy disks? Four

57:12

thousand. You

57:14

did the math? Four thousand disks. Four

57:16

thousand one hundred and sixty-six. Okay,

57:20

so we'll get the floppies for that. We can try

57:22

it, and then we'll ship them out to the audience.

57:24

We'll ship them out, yeah. Nine months later. I'm just

57:26

thinking, like, you get four thousand floppies. Probably

57:29

a hundred of those are bad. And what

57:31

if you get them out of Ubuntu? Oh my

57:33

gosh. Yeah. It just goes

57:35

everywhere. We're gonna need a robot or maybe like

57:37

a 3D printed caddy. Something to keep it all

57:40

straight. Can we get like a higher speed floppy

57:42

disk reader, too? Something that could read that at

57:44

more than like, you know, 10 kilobytes a second

57:46

or whatever it was? Fine, fine. We'll use Blu-ray

57:48

disks. Our

57:51

dear Zach Attack boosted in with two thousand

57:53

five hundred and forty-three, which to me sounds

57:55

like a space ball spoons. Oh,

57:57

look at you doing all of the space balls, man. Though

58:00

the culmination is one two,

58:02

three, four, five. Stupid

58:06

Comedies. I live my life. I've

58:08

been experimenting with the door over

58:10

the last couple months since my

58:12

next experiment didn't pan out and

58:14

running the Katie spin and key

58:16

night on different machines the store

58:18

forty update will kind of be

58:20

it's final test on how long

58:23

it sticks around. I'm

58:25

hoping for dark and give me better updates

58:27

and some control over a been to desktop

58:29

and case a drop the ball and liking

58:31

key Night over next as a guest out

58:33

of the way and still that's me. Install

58:36

Rpm when needed. Here's hoping the update goes

58:38

okay, they always do when way or another.

58:41

They. Always do it is nice build muscle rp

58:43

hims on their yeah I mean as lot

58:45

of the the options these days. In the

58:47

beautiful distress though you will have to pry

58:49

next decile that piece at a my cold

58:51

dead hands and right so they know you're

58:53

told to build a just install a package

58:55

on demand like that them blown away when

58:57

I'm done. Just. Need a for fifteen minutes

58:59

I don't need for the recent one point was the blowing

59:01

away part because I've just been. And. Shouting

59:03

things down not a good friend. Doesn't the monument

59:06

or and have it be a do Eventually You

59:08

shouldn't like garbage. Eventually there is no there is

59:10

that it will eat hard drive space Eventually We

59:12

did talking about a little bit about the next

59:15

seven in Olympia Mike's talk and are just basically

59:17

a temporary addition to the sibling tree. And.

59:19

Then when you come out of an environment like us by

59:21

many to root basically. And. Is

59:24

pretty neat isn't that comes in

59:26

with two thousand Sats soy and

59:28

die. He's mentioning that that we

59:30

got a shoutout. On. What Bitcoin

59:32

did in the episode when Oscar marry the

59:34

founder of Fountain Fm was interviewed. Great episode

59:36

by the will. What Bitcoin didn't look for?

59:38

Oscar Marry. And. That we got a

59:40

couple a Shout Outs Med episode. So. That's pretty

59:42

cool and will do after school that. diverse

59:46

set of a sudden it's been great working with

59:48

the team over the phone has been explored more

59:50

upon yes in two point oh features especially in

59:52

our line set up these days and i'm still

59:54

mean with among the regular to to go over

59:56

things that his his listeners have sent and we've

59:58

extended data weekly meeting and we're just kind of

1:00:00

continuing to just work through that and add new

1:00:02

stuff as well. There's just a new

1:00:05

update for Fountain FM that came out that improves a

1:00:07

lot of little things in the UI that people sent

1:00:09

in about. So that feedback is making a

1:00:11

difference still. It's really great to see. Leaky

1:00:14

canoe boost in with 15,000 cents. Oh,

1:00:18

via the podcast index. Hey. Okay,

1:00:21

you Nix gurus. Uh-oh. Please explain

1:00:23

like I'm five, how the

1:00:25

process works to upgrade between releases of

1:00:27

Nix OS. Can I just update my

1:00:30

configuration dot Nix and rebuild? Thanks

1:00:32

for the great content. Wes, what do you think?

1:00:34

It sounds like maybe he needs to go familiar

1:00:36

himself with the channels concept, right? Yeah, if you're

1:00:39

not using flakes, then channels is what you want.

1:00:41

You'll be on the channel for the old release.

1:00:44

There's instructions in the manual to go add the

1:00:46

channel for the new release, and then you can

1:00:48

rebuild. If you're doing the flake

1:00:50

approach, then you just need to update your

1:00:53

flake.log file. Yeah, you got your stable and

1:00:55

your unstable channels. So

1:00:58

there are releases in Nix. People talk about it

1:01:00

as a rolling district, I suppose in a

1:01:02

sense, but you do after a release need to

1:01:04

go and update your channel and essentially tune in

1:01:06

to the next one. It's basically a

1:01:08

one-line command. Yeah, you just add Nix channel

1:01:10

dash dash add, and then the URL of

1:01:13

the channel, and then that'll automatically replace whatever

1:01:15

your current channel is. Yeah. Yep.

1:01:18

You'll find this pretty easy. The hybrid sarcasm

1:01:20

boosted in 12345 Satoshi's. So

1:01:23

the combination is 12345. That's

1:01:28

the stupidest combination I've ever heard in my

1:01:31

life. A space balls boost as a Star

1:01:33

Trek follow-up. I like the link here. Deep

1:01:36

Space Nine is the best track for

1:01:38

the following reasons. Number one,

1:01:40

Sisko punched Q. Number

1:01:43

two, the two best villains

1:01:45

ever in Dukat and Kaiwin. Number

1:01:49

three, the Dominion War. And

1:01:52

number four, in the Pale

1:01:54

Moonlight. And

1:01:56

lastly, number five, the most significant

1:01:58

on-screen experience. exploration of Klingon culture. All

1:02:01

right. I mean that's a very compelling

1:02:03

argument. I would say That's

1:02:07

tricky. I mean we explored Vulcans

1:02:09

and especially Spock's father in Star

1:02:11

Trek the next generation you

1:02:14

had Q was created in Star

1:02:16

Trek the next generation and went head-to-head

1:02:18

with Captain Picard on multiple occasions and

1:02:20

then I would argue one of

1:02:22

the best villains in Star Trek ever would

1:02:24

be the Borg and that also was created

1:02:27

in Star Trek the next generation and I

1:02:29

Would argue that best of both worlds is

1:02:31

a fantastic two-parter Also, do you

1:02:33

remember the one where he you know gets zapped

1:02:35

by the probe and learns to play the flute? What's that one

1:02:38

called Wes? Oh, I'm totally blanking That's

1:02:40

a great episode That's a great and also the

1:02:42

episode after best of both worlds where Picard goes

1:02:44

back and sees his brother Great

1:02:46

episode man the inner light the inner light is

1:02:48

what I'm trying to think of the inner light

1:02:50

So we'll point out that only in Star Trek

1:02:53

Voyager. Do we really explore the complex society of

1:02:55

the Talaxians though? Yeah, that's true. They got you

1:02:57

there. I also think today is a good day

1:02:59

to boost. Ah I think you're

1:03:01

you know what hybrid I think you've made the most compelling

1:03:03

case yet though It was a real surprise about Anakin I

1:03:06

was name Hybrid

1:03:08

continues here one last thing ironically

1:03:10

the foundation for deep space 9

1:03:13

Bayjor was the least interesting part

1:03:15

of the entire second Ironically,

1:03:18

yeah, sounds like a beautiful world

1:03:20

to visit though. It does. It does seem like there's a lot

1:03:22

there doesn't there? Autobrain comes in. Thank

1:03:24

you. By the way hybrid very thought-provoking.

1:03:26

Our brain comes in with a row of

1:03:28

ducks 2222 south Cheers

1:03:32

from the opposite corner of the country over here

1:03:34

in Maine Well cheers to you.

1:03:36

I hear they have maple syrup We should make it over

1:03:38

there and find out but it you could

1:03:40

test it for us Yeah, the last

1:03:42

time you asked me to test maple syrup Do

1:03:46

you think they have mayonnaise? It

1:03:49

probably on like a lobster roll. I'd like to see

1:03:51

Brent try that the last time I made Brent try

1:03:53

maple syrup It was more like a maple product, but

1:03:55

I don't think it contained any maple Somehow

1:03:57

you convinced me that I should because I was

1:03:59

like Like this isn't, in this

1:04:01

kind of, it was like this super

1:04:04

dingy diner. We were in a

1:04:06

place in, oh

1:04:08

yeah, this is our favorite diner you meet? Oof.

1:04:12

That's embarrassing. I love that diner. I

1:04:14

mean, I'm not saying dingy is a

1:04:16

bad thing, but it was like, I

1:04:20

mean, I'm a maple syrup snot, but it

1:04:22

was served in a cup, like a plastic,

1:04:25

I don't know, single use cup? That

1:04:28

alone is an indicator. But

1:04:31

somehow, Chris, you convinced me that this was actually

1:04:33

gonna be real maple syrup. Well, you know, it

1:04:35

was really just a matter of pretending. I

1:04:37

call it acting, and so I just poured it on the

1:04:39

pancakes and cut the pancakes up and made it look real

1:04:41

good, and oh, it really goes

1:04:44

so good with the pancakes, Brent, you gotta try

1:04:46

this. It must have been like pre-food because I

1:04:48

can usually tell just by the pour, whether it's

1:04:50

like authentic or not. This is something he does

1:04:52

do. When we go to a restaurant, he will

1:04:55

look at the pour of the maple syrup and

1:04:57

critique the pour. I guess

1:04:59

the pour matters. It's

1:05:02

so funny though. And yeah, you can probably

1:05:04

guess, almost nothing ever meets

1:05:06

Brent's standards when it comes to maple syrup. Well,

1:05:09

Jiddy comes in with 5,000 cents just to

1:05:11

say, hope you're having fun at the fest.

1:05:13

Thank you, Jiddy, appreciate that. We are having

1:05:15

fun at the fest. Really appreciate that boost.

1:05:18

Tomato Canada comes in with a

1:05:20

boost here. It says one,

1:05:23

two, three, four, five satoshis. I

1:05:27

think that's tomato. So the combination is

1:05:29

one, two, three, four, five.

1:05:33

That's the stupidest combination I ever heard in my life. Also

1:05:35

shout out there for doing the math. This is actually two

1:05:37

booths. So you had to figure out how to add that

1:05:40

up to the booth. He did, he got it. Usually

1:05:42

we have to figure that out. I'm

1:05:44

also noting that I think they're using

1:05:47

their client in the

1:05:49

French language. So just a tip hat there. My

1:05:52

first Linux install was Slackware on a PC

1:05:54

I built with my brother. It

1:05:56

started life as a 286 with exactly one. Meg

1:06:00

of Ran, 20 megs of

1:06:02

hard drive, and Hercules

1:06:04

graphic. Hercules, huh? I remember them. It

1:06:07

had been upgraded to a 386SX,

1:06:11

and EGA graphics by the time

1:06:13

we first put Slack on it,

1:06:16

and it ended its life with

1:06:18

Super VGA and 200 Meg hard

1:06:20

drives. Big upgrades. Nice. It

1:06:22

did spend most of its time in DOS though.

1:06:25

Oh. My first full-time Linux

1:06:27

PC though was terrible. A

1:06:31

compact Presario 2200, quote unquote,

1:06:33

media PC I picked up

1:06:35

for about a song. Nothing

1:06:37

was upgradeable except the hard drive, and it

1:06:40

had a weird Citrix

1:06:42

686 in it? Still

1:06:45

it ran Slack, then Red Hat, and was the

1:06:47

machine where I accidentally killed the Windows 95 partition

1:06:50

when updating the Red Hat install. I

1:06:53

had enlightenment and sound working.

1:06:56

So I kept it that way. Of

1:06:58

course. Once you get it working,

1:07:00

right? Tomato, that's a great old story. Can you

1:07:02

imagine starting a machine with one megabyte of RAM

1:07:05

and finally bringing it all the way up to

1:07:07

like four megabytes and two 100

1:07:09

megabyte hard drives from a 20 megabyte

1:07:11

hard drive? I mean, does your next config

1:07:13

even fit on one meg? One

1:07:16

of my very first computers also had

1:07:18

a 20 megabyte hard drive, and

1:07:21

I think it had two megabytes of RAM

1:07:23

as well. I

1:07:26

was given an old used Mac for a while

1:07:28

that had like an 80 megahertz processor and four

1:07:30

megabytes of RAM that I eventually took up to

1:07:32

16 megabytes of RAM. And now you complain with

1:07:35

anything less than 64 gig? Sometimes

1:07:37

less. That is actually

1:07:39

really true. That is, it's like,

1:07:41

well, you know, the software changed a little bit

1:07:44

too there, Wes. The software did change. Now normally

1:07:46

we cut things off just for time in the

1:07:48

show at 2000 sets, but don't worry, we see

1:07:50

and read all of them and we leave them

1:07:53

in our show notes for posterity. I did want

1:07:55

to elevate a boost here 100 cents from David

1:07:57

98, because we talked about how shortwave

1:07:59

has our JBLive.fm audio stream

1:08:02

in it, and it sounds

1:08:04

like David98, well, hey Chris,

1:08:06

I added the stream for JBLive.fm

1:08:08

to radio-browser.info, which is the

1:08:10

backend database that shows this is going back

1:08:13

in probably 2018 or 2019, thank you. I

1:08:17

think at that point I may still have been using

1:08:19

Gratio, the precursor to shortwave, I've been using

1:08:21

the stream for years, but I was very happy to

1:08:23

discover it works with the new Live Item Tag Infrastructure

1:08:25

too, keep it up. Thank you very

1:08:27

much for doing that, yeah the great thing about the Live Item stuff

1:08:31

it's all standards-based, nothing proprietary in there at

1:08:33

all, so the old plumbing still works, and

1:08:35

I really appreciate you setting us up with

1:08:37

that. We also got 10,000 SATs

1:08:40

while we were live from Tron, says

1:08:42

bummed I couldn't make it due to

1:08:44

a work migration, but I'm another Slackware on

1:08:46

my first device user. All

1:08:48

right, way back in 94, a fellow grad

1:08:50

student introduced me to Slack and I started

1:08:52

using it for my math modeling in C

1:08:54

instead of waiting for the room on

1:08:57

one of the sun boxes, I remember, yes,

1:08:59

yep. Linux has been my primary ever since

1:09:02

then, and

1:09:05

now I'm on Nix and absolutely loving it, looking

1:09:07

at moving my Podman containers into my homeland now

1:09:09

too, thanks for all the great shows, keep on

1:09:11

rockin'. Oh, we also got 1,004 SATs from 412

1:09:14

Linux, that

1:09:16

was a live boost, who reports that

1:09:18

their Sputnik laptop is also still

1:09:20

running strong. I've replaced the battery

1:09:22

and fans, it's my remote rig. You know, I do

1:09:24

need to replace the battery, that is the one thing

1:09:26

that's really the worst in this thing, is I think

1:09:29

I get like 10 minutes of battery life right now.

1:09:31

I'm not sure because I, you know, it's like, it

1:09:33

just constantly tells me it's about to shut down, it's

1:09:35

about to shut down, and then like 10 minutes go

1:09:37

by and I'm like, it's still going, but I don't

1:09:39

know, I'll plug it in. Can you even imagine trying

1:09:41

to run like a modern Windows, well, I mean, 11

1:09:43

just wouldn't support it, but like, what

1:09:45

a dog it'd be. Yeah, it would be such a

1:09:47

dog. Also got 5,000 live stats from Otterbrain, who

1:09:49

says his first box was a dual

1:09:51

booting Mac Power PC, circa

1:09:53

1998 with Yellow Dog Linux. So

1:09:57

scary though, blessing the Mac OS 9 system from

1:09:59

the... bootloader. Yeah, that felt really sketch.

1:10:02

Yellow Dog Linux was a special distro because

1:10:04

it was also the first Linux that let

1:10:06

me get a Mac,

1:10:08

get Linux working on a Mac and that was massive

1:10:10

for me. And it's also, if

1:10:12

anybody cares, you know the genesis of

1:10:15

YUM, the package manager, the Yellow Dog

1:10:17

update manager, which eventually moved to Fedora

1:10:19

and now we have DNF. So we

1:10:21

actually have Yellow Dog Linux which was

1:10:24

designed for PowerPC Macs way back in

1:10:26

the day, like in the late 90s, is

1:10:29

semi responsible for how fantastic DNF is

1:10:31

on our Fedora systems today. Isn't

1:10:34

that neat? I'm feeling like I really missed

1:10:36

out on this Slackware stuff, Yellow Dog stuff.

1:10:38

Maybe I'll go back. I want

1:10:41

to say thank you everybody who did boost in, like

1:10:43

Wes said, we do have the 2000 fat cut off

1:10:45

for time purposes. But we had, well we had over

1:10:47

24, probably nearly 30 boosters

1:10:49

when you include the live

1:10:51

boosters. It's just not in that number there, but it was

1:10:53

a very good showing right there and we stacked well over

1:10:56

300,000 sats. I mean probably 300 and couple,

1:11:00

I don't know. 320, we've got like 20k live

1:11:02

here. Yeah, it's in the range though, so thank

1:11:04

you everybody. It's a fantastic showing. We absolutely appreciate

1:11:06

it. Let's give them a round of applause everybody.

1:11:16

Thank you very much. We appreciate the support.

1:11:18

If you would like to boost in, get a new

1:11:20

podcast out, try some of the new standards. Like you

1:11:22

could be listening to this live stream from Linux test,

1:11:24

Node-Quest right now in your podcast app and it would

1:11:26

just tell you when it's going to be live. We

1:11:29

really appreciate it. It's great

1:11:32

hearing your messages too. podcastapp.com

1:11:34

for that. And before we

1:11:36

get out of here, I will have a little pick. You

1:11:39

know our conversation with Jose had me thinking about this.

1:11:41

I actually heard from several other listeners who

1:11:43

are jellyfin fans, but

1:11:46

also want to keep their options open. And

1:11:49

I found this really neat app this week

1:11:51

that seems like maybe just a great idea.

1:11:53

Even if you never plan to go anywhere

1:11:56

with jellyfin, it's called Playfin. And

1:11:58

Playfin allows you to... convert

1:12:00

YouTube music playlist into Jellyfin. And

1:12:02

then they have Playfin Voyager. It's

1:12:04

two different apps. Playfin Voyager allows

1:12:07

you to export all of your

1:12:09

Jellyfin playlists into text files or

1:12:11

import Jellyfin playlists into Jellyfin

1:12:13

from text files. Wow. Two separate apps. So

1:12:15

you've got Playfin, which manages

1:12:18

YouTube music playlists. And that's Play.

1:12:21

So it's Playlifin or something? It's Play. You're

1:12:24

doing great. Play, L, F, I, N. Yeah,

1:12:26

give it a correct. It must be

1:12:29

French or something, right? Playlifin? Ah,

1:12:31

Playlifin. And you have Playlifin Voyager as well.

1:12:34

They're both as flat packs. And they're

1:12:36

from the same developer, so it'll be pretty easy to find.

1:12:38

And this, to me, just seems like good insurance. Look

1:12:41

at that. Isn't that a nice little

1:12:43

UI, too? It's neat to see. Slowly

1:12:45

but surely, there's really an ecosystem developing

1:12:47

of supported apps and extra apps and

1:12:49

extensions around Jellyfin. Something has

1:12:51

happened in the last year or

1:12:54

two where people, I think, have

1:12:56

had enough of the Plexus. And

1:12:58

these bigger projects doing rug pulls, and people

1:13:02

are assembling around the Jellyfins, around the images, around

1:13:04

all these things. And they are getting to the

1:13:06

point now where it's good enough. They're good enough.

1:13:08

I agree. It feels like this really make the

1:13:10

difference. It feels like we have

1:13:12

reached a critical mass now where the

1:13:15

previous years, it would have been everybody just

1:13:17

uses Plex. And if they have any kind of home

1:13:19

media set up, it's just Plex. And I don't know

1:13:21

what's out there, but I don't think anybody had talked to you

1:13:23

said, oh, yeah, I'm a Plexus. Everybody was using Jellyfin that I

1:13:25

talked to. I didn't even met people who hadn't even heard of

1:13:28

Plex but had been using Jellyfins. How about that? That's

1:13:30

an indicator, isn't it? Yeah. I think there is a, what

1:13:32

do you call that? A sea change. The wind is blowing

1:13:35

in a different direction. That's that moment where you're abandoned. You're

1:13:37

on your fourth or fifth album. You look at it in

1:13:39

the crowd, and everybody's half your age. Yeah. Harsh,

1:13:43

Alex. Harsh. All right.

1:13:45

Well, I think that's going to wrap us up. We'll have

1:13:47

links to everything we talked about in the show notes at

1:13:49

linuxunplugged.com/5 6 0. We'd

1:13:51

love to have you join us next Sunday. We'll be

1:13:53

back in the studio at noon Pacific, 3 PM Eastern.

1:13:55

See you next week. Same bad time,

1:13:57

same bad station. Don't forget, we love you.

1:14:00

You can also become a member at linuxunplugged.com/membership,

1:14:03

support the show directly

1:14:05

every single month, or

1:14:07

hit that contact page,

1:14:09

linuxunplugged.com/contact. Thank you so much

1:14:11

for being here this week. We'll see you right back here next

1:14:13

week.