0:00

Support for Npr and the following

0:02

message come from our sponsor Whole

0:04

Foods Market. Whos that? celebratory brunch

0:06

for a less with three Sixty

0:08

Five by Whole Foods Market featuring

0:10

while it happy fines like hold

0:12

smoked Atlantic salmon and. More. You're

0:17

listening to Life Kit from

0:21

NPR. Hey, everybody,

0:23

it's Marielle. At Life

0:25

Kit, you know that we love to get vulnerable with

0:27

you. I mean, so much

0:29

of our show is about navigating

0:32

tricky emotional situations, right? Learning how

0:34

to be single, dealing with anxiety,

0:36

repairing family relationships, basically just

0:38

being a human. And that's one

0:40

reason I'm excited about Wild Card. It's

0:42

a new show from NPR hosted by

0:44

Rachel Martin. And in the

0:46

show, Rachel plays a card game with

0:49

her guests that creates the space for

0:51

them to get really vulnerable, to talk

0:53

about their deepest joys and fears and

0:55

experiences. Today on Life

0:57

Kit, we're going to hear one of those

0:59

episodes, Rachel's conversation with the actress, writer and

1:01

producer Issa Rae. But first, Rachel and I

1:03

sat down to talk a little about the

1:05

game, because it's actually something you can play

1:08

at home or with anyone that you want to get

1:10

to know on a deeper level. Hey,

1:12

Rachel. Hey, Marielle. Okay,

1:14

so describe the concept of the show for me.

1:17

Okay, so sometimes talking

1:20

about the things that are most precious to you

1:22

and most intimate can be a little bit intimidating.

1:25

And unless you're sitting around with like your

1:28

nearest and dearest, it may be not a

1:30

thing you feel comfortable doing. So we made

1:32

a game out of it to make it

1:35

a little more accessible, to make it so

1:37

that there's a little bit of whimsy, a

1:39

little bit of play, right? And

1:42

to also create

1:45

a way for other people to play

1:47

along at home. Yeah,

1:51

exactly. I mean, for our audience at Life

1:53

Kit, I'm thinking about how they can use

1:55

questions like these or games like these to

1:57

get to know each other better. And

2:00

I think there's something that really works

2:02

about the game to create intimacy. And

2:05

I wonder how you thought about that when

2:07

y'all designed it. I mean, that must be

2:09

intentional, right? Definitely. And at

2:12

first, I have to admit that when

2:14

my producer, Lee Hale, came

2:16

up with this idea, I was like, isn't

2:18

this going to,

2:22

I don't know, make light of these things? The

2:25

stuff that I wanted to talk about, like grief

2:28

and aspirations and

2:31

fear and failure. Like,

2:34

isn't a game going to dilute the power

2:36

of those topics? And what has

2:38

been crazy is how it doesn't at all.

2:40

It creates, as you said, this intimacy. And

2:43

I'm also in it. Like one of the

2:45

rules in the game is that you can

2:47

flip a question on me. And

2:50

I think when the interviewer and

2:52

interviewee are on more of a level

2:54

playing ground, then that also

2:56

helps cultivate that intimacy. Yeah.

3:00

Because that turns it more from

3:02

an interview into a conversation, which

3:04

is what we want our interviews

3:06

to feel like anyway. We always

3:08

say that we want them to

3:10

be conversations, not interviews, especially

3:12

with people. We're talking with a lot of successful

3:14

people in a lot of different industries, right? And

3:16

these are people who are professional speakers. They know

3:18

how to tell a good story. They know how

3:20

to tell their own story. They've told it a

3:22

million times in a million different interviews. And

3:25

I wanted a way

3:27

to break them out of that so

3:30

that they could reflect in a new way and giving

3:33

them this randomness to

3:35

the game, the surprise element,

3:39

allows them to be more thoughtful,

3:41

allows them to think more deeply.

3:43

And I think everybody gets more

3:45

out of a conversation like that. Okay.

3:47

So, Spirit of the Game, is there any question you

3:50

want to ask me? Ooh! I

3:52

mean, all the questions. Okay,

3:56

so let's see. I actually didn't... Where

3:58

are my... my heart. Hold on,

4:01

I'm gonna grab one. Okay. So I'm

4:03

actually doing something random instead of just picking

4:05

one for you. Hold on. These are

4:07

three of the like warm-up-y kind

4:09

of questions. Okay, so I'll let

4:11

you pick, right? Like here's one,

4:14

two, or three. Two. Two!

4:21

Where would you go to feel safe as a kid? Oh,

4:26

my TT's house. We would

4:28

go visit and I just

4:30

felt so at ease

4:32

with her. She would, we would

4:34

like, she would

4:36

babysit me while my parents went out and did

4:39

stuff and she would like paint my nails

4:41

and we would watch Tere Novelas and she

4:43

would cook and my cousin Nancy

4:45

would do my hair because she's a hairdresser. Like

4:48

I was, I was always

4:50

like hysterically crying when we would leave her

4:53

house because I was like,

4:55

I miss her already. I don't wanna, I don't

4:58

want to leave and probably one of the,

5:00

you didn't think this was a deep question, but probably one

5:02

of the deep wounds of my life is that she died

5:04

when I was about seven

5:07

or eight. So

5:10

I'll probably be missing her forever. Yeah. That

5:13

was the first person, that was the first time

5:15

you had suffered that kind

5:17

of loss. You're so young. Two losses

5:19

right around the same time, my uncle,

5:22

Jimmy and my TT Margo. And

5:25

sometimes when I want to feel safe

5:27

now, I think of them, you know.

5:29

I have my uncle's picture hanging right

5:31

above my computer here and my, my

5:33

TT's picture in the other room

5:36

near my bed. And that's

5:38

the beauty of the game, right? You don't know where

5:40

the questions are gonna go. You don't know what

5:43

it's gonna bring up. And now

5:45

I'm thinking about those two people

5:47

and the lovely gifts they gave

5:49

you of just like that joy and safety.

5:52

What a lovely thing. Yeah. Yeah.

5:57

It just shows even a question that's like not,

5:59

not. the deepest on your deck

6:02

could give you a really deep answer. You

6:04

don't know? Yeah. You don't know.

6:08

Oh, well, thank you, Rachel. This has been

6:10

so great. I've loved talking to you. I always

6:12

love talking to you, too. Thank you so

6:14

much. All right, here's that episode of Wild

6:16

Card, a conversation between Rachel Martin and

6:19

Issa Rae. This

6:34

message is brought to you by NPR

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that? celebratory brunch for a less

7:07

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7:09

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7:14

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8:01

This message comes from NPR sponsor, Discover.

8:03

Here's a familiar situation. You have a

8:05

question about your credit card. You call

8:07

the number for help and can't get

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service you deserve with Discover.

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Limitations apply. See terms at

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discover.com slash credit card. Hey,

8:35

it's Rachel. Just a heads up,

8:37

this episode contains some expertly deployed

8:39

swearing. Do

8:42

you have a belief system that helps you make sense

8:44

of the world? Yes, that

8:46

everything happens for a reason.

8:51

That gets me through so much

8:54

that that gets me through those

8:56

stupid mistakes and bad decisions. Hey,

8:59

I'm Rachel Martin and this is Wildcard,

9:01

the game where cards control the

9:04

conversation. Each

9:07

week my guest chooses questions at

9:09

random. Three cards in my hand.

9:11

You pick a card. One through three.

9:13

Three. Three. Questions about the memories,

9:15

insights and beliefs that have shaped their

9:17

lives. This week, comedian, writer,

9:20

producer and actor Issa Rae is playing

9:22

the game. Oh my god, if that

9:24

hadn't happened, I wouldn't have had

9:27

the happiness that I have today. So I

9:29

came away from a conversation with

9:32

Issa Rae and it was clear to

9:34

me that she's genuinely happy and secure

9:36

in who she is at this stage

9:38

of the game, which is notable considering

9:40

her breakout hit was a show on

9:42

HBO called Insecure. The show was

9:44

based a lot on her own experiences as

9:46

a young single black woman making her way

9:48

through life in LA. And

9:50

Issa Rae does have a lot to feel

9:53

good about right now. She was in three

9:55

Oscar-nominated films in 2023, including American Fiction and

9:59

Barbie, where she was cast as president

10:01

of Barbie World. But Issa's amazing

10:03

career is about way more than

10:05

just acting. She's basically a one-woman

10:08

media empire promoting and investing in

10:10

people of color, and

10:12

she's doing it not just in the movies but also

10:14

in music and business. Issa Rae clearly

10:16

has big plans. She also

10:18

has this vibe and the smile and

10:21

this external confidence that makes me believe

10:23

she's going to do it all. Issa

10:26

Rae, I am so happy that you're here.

10:28

Thank you for doing this. I'm so happy to be here.

10:31

So, your projects are

10:33

infused with like this very positive energy.

10:35

Well, thank you. So, it seems like

10:37

you're walking through the world in a

10:39

pretty good light. I've always been

10:41

optimistic, and I think there's a

10:45

little bit of delusion behind that,

10:48

and I think I've kept that delusion because

10:50

you have to be a little

10:52

bit delusional to like dream and

10:55

think you can achieve dreams. And

10:57

I think the

10:59

contrary would make me sad, and I don't

11:01

like to live in sad places.

11:04

And I always also see the best in

11:06

people until I don't. Yeah, yeah. So,

11:08

you got a lot going on besides acting.

11:10

I read that you're partnering

11:12

with HBO again on your own projects that you're writing

11:15

and creating. Yeah, I'm in

11:17

a deal with them. They're my favorites,

11:20

collaborators. I'm really excited about. I'm

11:22

excited about so much. It feels

11:24

different than anything that I've done before

11:27

while still tackling things that deeply

11:30

scare me, and I

11:32

love to write from a place of fear. Whoa,

11:35

why? Because pre-therapy

11:40

me, that was the

11:42

only way to acknowledge what I

11:44

was scared of and work through it

11:47

and add humor

11:49

to it, which I want to

11:51

do always just to

11:53

help get through it in so many

11:55

ways. And also, even in

11:57

making something new, I think it's a little bit of a struggle.

12:00

you get to invite other people into

12:02

your fears. And anytime someone else is involved

12:04

in a scary situation with you, it becomes

12:06

less scary. It's just a great way to

12:08

work through it. Okay,

12:10

I feel like there's a lot uncapped there. I

12:12

didn't get to, but maybe the game will bring

12:14

it up for us. Yes, let's get it. So

12:19

here's the game. In front of me is a deck

12:21

of cards. It's real. On each of these

12:23

cards is a question that I would love for you to answer. And

12:27

you are gonna randomly choose which

12:29

ones that I ask. There

12:32

are two rules, okay? You get one

12:34

skip. If you use your skip, then

12:36

I'll just replace it with another one in the deck,

12:38

in the same deck. And

12:40

you get one flip. So this is when you can

12:42

put me on the spot and I'll answer it before

12:44

you do. You still got it. Oh, you can. Okay,

12:47

okay, all right, all right.

12:50

We are breaking it up into rounds, okay?

12:52

So the first one is memories. The

12:54

next one is insights or lessons that

12:56

you're learning right now. And

12:58

the last one is beliefs, how you see the

13:01

world. Okay. And since

13:03

this is a game, I know you're gonna be into the

13:05

fact that there is a prize at the end. Oh, yes.

13:08

Oh, there it is. Oh, they're on. Makes the

13:10

game worth playing. I know that's, yes, I'm into

13:12

it now. Okay, good. So round one,

13:15

memories. Here we go. There

13:17

are three cards in my hand. You

13:19

pick a card, one through three. One,

13:21

two, three. Three. Three.

13:25

Okay. What's a moment

13:28

when you felt proud of yourself as a kid? A

13:31

moment when I felt proud of myself

13:33

was definitely making my

13:37

older brothers laugh. My

13:39

entire family is funny, but my older brothers in

13:41

particular are so

13:44

funny to me, and they are closer in age.

13:46

So they have a rapport. And

13:48

I was the third sibling,

13:50

the middle child, ultimately, that came

13:53

six years later. So while

13:55

they're two years apart, me and

13:57

my older brother are six years apart. So I was like,

14:00

girl, the young one,

14:02

and so making

14:04

them laugh was like, am I

14:06

part of the club now? Were

14:08

you? And I wasn't. Okay. It was

14:11

very short lived because then it was

14:13

like I tried too hard to continue

14:15

it, you know? Yeah. You can't, they,

14:17

nobody likes to try hard. No, which

14:19

is really difficult when you're a kid

14:21

who wants to be affected by your

14:24

older brothers. Did you

14:26

have a particular brand of comedy at that age?

14:28

Was it physical comedy? Was it puns? Knock

14:33

knock. What a good question. Well,

14:36

thank you, Isa. It was, it

14:42

was probably, there was

14:44

a physical element. Yeah, because it was,

14:46

it was rooted in imitation. Mm.

14:50

And then storytelling. I like to tell stories,

14:52

you know, things that happened. And

14:54

I think inevitably that turned

14:57

into then my commentary on things

14:59

that happened. And you still sort

15:01

of do that. I do. Look

15:03

at that. Okay, so we are

15:06

going to the next question here.

15:08

Pick a card. One,

15:11

two, three, one,

15:14

one. When was

15:16

the time in your childhood when you

15:19

realized the adults in your life didn't

15:21

have all the answers? Didn't have all the

15:23

answers. I mean, the first thing that comes to

15:25

mind, which I'm like, it's

15:27

probably when my parents got

15:29

divorced and I was like, what?

15:33

Because I didn't see it coming. And I was like,

15:35

yeah, I can't figure this out. What's going on?

15:38

What happened? Because

15:40

they also initially, which

15:42

they blamed it on cultural differences. My

15:44

dad is Senegalese. My mom is American.

15:46

I was like, that's dumb. You guys

15:49

know each other's cultures. Is that what they told

15:51

you? Yes, that's what they told. That's what they

15:53

told the last three of us. But

15:57

the younger siblings, but I

15:59

was in high school. So I was like, like smart enough

16:01

to know, clearly not, but smart enough

16:03

to know there was more to it. But

16:05

to me, I just remember thinking like, say,

16:12

this is something that can

16:14

and should be fixed and they just don't know what they're

16:16

doing. But did it, because you were

16:18

older, did you have a pretty

16:20

good sense of feeling secure

16:23

in your own life or did it unmoore you?

16:26

To some degree. What do you mean? Yes.

16:28

I think to this day, I mean, it

16:31

colors relationships. It colors the way

16:33

that you, it colors

16:35

your perception of so much

16:39

because I'm like, again, I didn't see this coming. So I was like,

16:41

what else don't I see coming? What else don't I know? And

16:45

what else have I translated wrong in my

16:47

worldview? So yeah, that's

16:49

stuff that I'm still deciphering. Like we're all,

16:52

everybody's fine now. You know, we're on a

16:54

big family group chat. There's too many messages

16:56

that come through. Yeah, with my dad. He

16:59

sent like eight videos back to back yesterday.

17:04

But it was,

17:06

it was just kind of unnerving. And

17:08

so like, I love to write about

17:10

relationships and I'm obsessed with relationships. I

17:12

think because of that. We've

17:16

got to take a quick break, but we'll be back

17:18

with round two with Issa Rae. And

17:20

I was talking to my friend about this actually. We

17:22

were just this weekend. I don't know why we were

17:24

just casually talking about death on the way to a

17:26

winery. That

17:38

was round one, round two. All

17:41

right. Insights, stuff you're working on. I

17:44

can do this. Yeah, it can. Okay,

17:46

we got three more cards. One,

17:48

two, three. Pick a card. Two.

17:53

Oh, how comfortable are you

17:55

with silence? Generally,

17:57

I love it.

18:00

love silence though

18:02

though my

18:04

yeah I like to be alone a lot of places

18:06

do you need

18:09

that yes like I

18:11

need I need I like actually need to

18:13

get away from people and not talk but

18:16

you seem like an extroverted human are

18:18

you insane thank you for that I

18:21

am NOT I'm extroverted around

18:24

around my own confines I

18:26

have to curate yeah the

18:28

ability to be an extrovert but no generally I

18:30

love being alone I like traveling alone I like

18:33

eating alone I love going to movies

18:35

alone sometimes and I still love the

18:37

people I love but it's necessary though

18:40

I will say my

18:43

friend talked about she's going on

18:45

a silent retreat I was like

18:47

yo what is that and she

18:49

was like you can't have your device you

18:51

can't read yeah and that

18:53

is terrifying to me I'm just

18:56

like that's terrifyingly boring because I

18:58

like my silence doing

19:00

things and you

19:02

know it is about being alone with your thoughts and seeing

19:05

what comes out of it but yeah

19:07

I don't know that I could do that I could

19:09

because I can do anything competitively

19:11

I would win yeah I would

19:14

treat so hard I would shut

19:16

the fuck up so fucking hard

19:20

if she's my cursing by the way I'm sorry I

19:22

will be better my

19:25

New Year's resolution all the time and then I tell

19:27

my kids that swearing is lazy and I

19:29

try to come up with different words and and

19:32

then I can't okay

19:36

okay okay let's move

19:39

let's move to the next the

19:41

next set of cards done to the

19:43

gun we're still in insights in

19:46

case you're playing along at home ah

19:49

one two three three what's

19:52

a failure you still think about

19:54

a failure I still think about

19:57

I'm gonna

19:59

do one of those in things and say I don't

20:01

believe in failure unless you stop but

20:03

there are no I

20:06

believe that's a real thing yeah I'm like I don't

20:08

feel anything unless I say I'm

20:10

not gonna do this anymore so I okay I mean

20:12

in that case a failure I think about

20:14

is there's

20:17

a failure of education and

20:21

I will say that and I'm thinking about

20:23

my dad but like and I didn't take

20:25

being in college seriously in that

20:28

way and like he wanted me to pursue like

20:30

a higher degree and all these other things

20:32

and I know that would have made him proud but I had

20:36

no interest in it at the time and

20:39

then I was like a step back and I was

20:41

like I really just wasted resources

20:44

and ways and yes my life went on

20:46

a different path and I pursued passions but

20:48

there's so many things there where I'm just like I

20:50

didn't wholly take advantage

20:53

of the opportunity and

20:55

I feel like I failed at

20:57

that period of my life but can

20:59

you explain to me that whole idea that

21:03

you don't believe in failure really

21:05

like I get that for sure

21:07

but there is it

21:09

just a label that bugs you because

21:12

there are definitely things I

21:15

have not succeeded at and it doesn't

21:17

it's not it doesn't haunt me but

21:21

I still recognize them as failures

21:24

and it's okay but

21:26

maybe that word itself carries a lot of baggage

21:29

or it feels pejorative yeah I

21:31

guess because I associate failure with

21:33

a test it just feels like a it feels

21:36

like the end and I don't know that I've reached

21:38

the end of anything that that

21:41

matters to me where I would consider it a

21:43

failure it's like I'm like I'm still going I

21:45

still have a chance to succeed I think I've

21:48

made stupid decisions bad

21:51

mistakes and like those

21:54

kind of things but I can't say that I've failed

21:58

anything but like tests or like actual

22:00

things that were constructed to

22:02

either pass or fail. And so I guess that's

22:05

my thing. No, I think that makes sense. I think it

22:07

makes sense for people

22:09

who are highly successful. I think they're,

22:11

sorry, but it does. Like you've had

22:13

a lot of success. It makes sense

22:15

that you can't really frame things in

22:18

your life as failures because then you stop like

22:21

putting yourself out there and taking risks. But

22:23

other people can easily, I'm sure somebody's listened to

22:25

this bitch. I know you failed it. I

22:27

think it's all perception. Some collaborators

22:29

may be like, you failed me. But I think,

22:31

yes, again, it's just in the way that you

22:33

see things. But I'm like, in my mind, I'm

22:35

still trying. Okay,

22:40

three more cards. Last one in this

22:42

round. One, two, three.

22:44

One. One.

22:47

What are you afraid of at this point in your life? Infinity.

22:52

Eternity. Eternity

22:55

scares me

22:57

to no end. There's no

22:59

end. Okay, yeah, you die, fine. I

23:01

can wrap my head around that. But

23:03

then what is forever? What

23:06

is that? This just keeps on going? Yeah, it

23:08

keeps on going. And I was talking to my

23:10

friend about this actually. We were just this weekend.

23:12

I don't know why we were just casually talking

23:14

about death on the way to a winery. It's

23:17

not gonna come. Hikey, for

23:19

real. You're the perfect person to talk to.

23:22

He was like, I just have come to terms with the

23:24

fact that once you die, you're just gone. And I was

23:27

like, what about the

23:30

forever of it? And he was like, I

23:32

haven't really thought about that. I just think

23:34

that's like human, humanity's ego. There's nothing after

23:36

in the afterlife. You're just done. And

23:38

I have never heard anyone I love say

23:40

that. And that I started spinning out where

23:43

I was just like, he, this person

23:45

I love, is talking about

23:47

dying and is just

23:51

accepted the fact that it's done. There's

23:53

no reincarnation for him. Because even that

23:55

is still scary. I'm just gonna appear

23:57

as either another person or an object

23:59

or... an insect or whatever

24:01

it is, but like for air, it doesn't

24:03

stop. There's no concept of the ending. So

24:05

that is a fear of mine. Like

24:08

is that the thing you think about at three o'clock

24:10

in the morning? The infiniteness of the

24:13

universe? I felt like all of life's

24:16

distractions free

24:18

me from thinking. There's a period where if I let my, like

24:21

so many of this, where if I let

24:23

my mind wander for too long, it inevitably

24:25

goes there. And there's

24:27

that I can't think past this because I can't

24:30

wrap my head around it or comprehend it. And

24:33

then I'm when I'm high. That'll

24:36

come. Yes. That

24:38

is also like some of the worst trips. All

24:43

right, we've got to take another break. Then we are

24:45

back for the final round with Issa Rae. If

24:48

this thing that I really

24:50

wanted didn't come to me, it was because it was

24:52

supposed to go to this person and they're having a

24:54

great time. So happy for me. Like it just wasn't

24:56

for me. Okay,

24:59

this is round three. This

25:07

is like big picture, like belief stuff. These

25:10

are three cards. I'm going to

25:12

go the middle of this time. Middle,

25:14

two. Feel like you like the two.

25:16

I do. Do you have

25:18

a belief system that helps you make sense of the

25:20

world? Yes, that everything

25:23

happens for a reason. That gets

25:25

me through so much. That

25:28

gets me through those stupid mistakes

25:30

and bad decisions. I'm

25:33

a big fork in the road person. That is

25:35

also something that haunts me. And

25:38

that's a fear that is past the infinity of

25:40

it all or the eternity of it all. It's

25:42

just like going

25:44

down the wrong path. And so I

25:48

assuage those concerns and fears by

25:50

saying like this all happens for a reason. The

25:53

reason could benefit me or

25:57

it'll benefit someone else. Thing

26:00

that I really wanted didn't come to me. It was

26:02

because it was supposed to go to this person and

26:04

they're having a great time I'm so happy for them.

26:06

Like it just wasn't for me Can

26:09

you give me an example of the fork in

26:11

the road? Is there a really profound one that

26:13

you still think about? Yeah the other life the

26:15

Paris trip? the

26:17

studying abroad over Overseas

26:22

there was I was supposed to study abroad. I was supposed to go to

26:24

Paris and I was also like a Guy

26:26

there that I was talking to really

26:29

seriously, but I had this opportunity to

26:33

submit What was it?

26:35

Oh, it was like a Sundance thing in

26:37

for a script that I'd written with

26:39

a friend but I had to

26:41

be in town if we won and we'd

26:44

be we were semi finalists and so if

26:48

I Went to Paris. I

26:50

just wouldn't be able to get the opportunity to

26:52

like do this Sundance thing And so, you know,

26:54

it was gonna be my friends

26:56

are studying abroad in Paris. This

26:58

guy was there and he was like

27:01

one of my first real loves and That

27:04

would have been just a different life

27:07

path and we weren't finalists. So I

27:09

had Wasted

27:11

this Trip

27:14

and the

27:16

memories and the chance that Whatever

27:20

that would have been and that

27:22

relationship. Yes, and then was just

27:27

Back at school, but I always wonder like what

27:29

would my life? have

27:31

been How many

27:34

children would I have prematurely if I

27:37

had if I had taken that? That

27:39

trip, but there's so many other moments where

27:41

it's just oh my god if that hadn't

27:44

happened. I I Wouldn't

27:46

have had the happiness that

27:49

I have today. There are a couple

27:51

things like that that Sometimes

27:53

keep me up at night Yeah

27:57

You don't need me to tell you but you weren't supposed to be with that

27:59

guy. I do I wasn't supposed to be with that

28:01

guy at all. At all. But I still think about

28:03

it. Yeah. I

28:06

think that's natural. You

28:08

thinking about it right now? Yeah. That

28:11

wasn't supposed

28:14

to be our... That

28:17

wasn't supposed to be fake. I

28:20

am a happily married baby. Okay.

28:26

So we are... Yeah, we're in belief

28:28

still. One, two, three. Three

28:30

new cards. Three. I feel like anybody's

28:32

listening is like, just choose three. You

28:35

haven't chosen three. Oh,

28:38

let's see how this goes. How

28:40

do you stay connected to people you've lost? Thinking

28:45

about them constantly. Because

28:48

thinking about them keeps them

28:50

alive forever. Sometimes

28:53

talking to them. And

28:57

with one particular person, a family member,

28:59

we have my mom

29:01

and I and now the

29:04

entire family have determined that

29:06

like whenever we see a hummingbird, there's

29:09

that person is there

29:12

thinking of it. And it

29:14

always aligns the perfect times.

29:16

Honestly, any time where I

29:18

feel like I need her or she's

29:21

missing something that I know that she would have just

29:24

been ecstatic to see or just needed

29:26

to be there for, that hummingbird will

29:28

be there either for

29:31

me or for my mom or for my brother

29:33

or whatever the case

29:35

is. So whatever that is, whatever,

29:38

whether it's true or not, it's real to

29:40

us. And I think that's also a way

29:42

of just preserving their memory because

29:44

it's hard. It's hard to

29:46

accept that these people that

29:49

we love and who we

29:52

feel are supposed to be here with us aren't.

29:56

And so we find ways to make sure that they are. And I

29:58

think that's a way of doing it. I think I'm good

30:01

about that, intentional about that.

30:05

I do that too. Seagulls, isn't

30:07

that weird? My mom's like them. Seagulls? And I

30:09

was like, they're like garbage eaters, but she loves

30:11

them. And it's so

30:13

random. But they come up

30:15

to me saying, like one will be where it's

30:17

not those, I'm like, there's no ocean around here.

30:19

What are you doing? Yes.

30:21

You're lost, little Seagull. Why

30:24

are you in Washington DC? Why are

30:26

you in East garbage? Why are you

30:29

in Washington DC? Why

30:31

are you in Washington DC? Okay, last one. Okay, last

30:33

one. Last one. One, two, three.

30:35

Let's go three again. I love this one

30:38

and I'm so glad it came up. Has

30:45

your idea of what it means to be

30:47

a good person changed? Wow. Yes

30:50

and no. Yes and no. Yes and

30:52

no. Yes and no. Yeah,

30:54

over time it's just been about, I think,

31:00

empathy and consideration.

31:05

That's what it's

31:07

evolved into before it was

31:09

like, just be kind. That's

31:12

the younger version of me. Treat people how you

31:14

want to be treated, be kind. But

31:17

I think there's just, there's

31:19

more to it than that. And

31:21

that's what's evolved. It's also showing

31:23

up in

31:25

a real way. But I think

31:28

the core, I still think nothing makes

31:30

me feel better than an act of

31:32

kindness from somebody random. That

31:34

just warms my spirit. And it could be

31:36

something as small as someone holding

31:39

an elevator open and you saying thank you.

31:43

Them being like, you're so welcome. Have a great day. Like

31:45

something like that. I'll think about that

31:47

for hours and just be like, they did not

31:49

even have to do that. And they meant that.

31:51

And that's those

31:53

moments of just connection and people

31:56

just seeing you and considering you that makes

31:58

me feel better. feel

32:00

special and I think

32:02

it goes a long way. It's such

32:04

a reminder that people wanna be good

32:07

and we need those reminders so

32:09

much. Yeah, I

32:11

do too. I like, I get weepy sometimes.

32:13

I don't get, what are you talking about?

32:16

Person held the door for you. No,

32:18

same. I know, they did.

32:24

They did it, it was the way they did it, you

32:26

had to be there. Or like

32:28

the parking unit was just really, like when

32:30

they asked how I was doing today. Yeah,

32:33

you could tell that he really meant it. Yeah,

32:35

thank you, thank you so much. I

32:37

needed you to ask me that, you have no idea. Yep,

32:40

that's literally it. You've

32:43

seen each other. You

32:47

won, you signed. Yes, because I didn't skip,

32:49

right? That's why I won. Boom.

32:53

You're hilarious. You

32:58

get a prize. It's a trip

33:00

in our memory time machine. You're

33:05

like, I thought I was done, Rachel. I gave

33:07

you all my special moments. No, no, Issa Rae,

33:09

no. We're

33:12

taking a trip in the memory time machine to

33:14

one moment in your life where you wouldn't change

33:17

anything about it. Not one thing, but

33:19

you would just like to hang out there a little bit longer.

33:21

Oh. Thanksgiving,

33:27

after the food is done, you're

33:31

hanging around the kitchen. All

33:35

five of us, five

33:38

siblings, mom, memories, laughs, playing

33:41

this game, the don't laugh and smile game. My

33:44

mom had been to this game to keep us at the

33:46

dinner table and not watch TV.

33:48

And it was called the don't laugh and smile game. And

33:50

it was basically, we

33:52

all spent the dinner trying to

33:55

make each other laugh. Whoever laughs first is out. So

33:57

it was all of us trying to hold our laughter

33:59

in. And so. It just involves literally that,

34:01

trying to make each other laugh, bringing up

34:03

old memories, things that,

34:06

you know, were embarrassing for someone else.

34:08

It's just a, in some cases, a

34:10

roasting, but it's just that

34:12

I could hang out at that table forever

34:14

because it's just bonding. And the

34:16

love we have for each other, and I just to

34:18

go back to your fear, knowing that this

34:24

will end, like my grandmother

34:26

just passed and

34:28

her brother, now my

34:31

great uncle, is the last one out of all his

34:33

siblings. And to see him, you know, sob at the

34:36

funeral, and he's like the funny guy, but to see,

34:38

and he's the youngest. And

34:40

I started thinking about, oh my god, this is gonna

34:42

happen. I tell my brother and sister, I was like,

34:44

this is gonna be us one

34:46

day. We'll, I've never thought about

34:49

like losing you guys. And so,

34:52

take me to that table. I could stay there for

34:54

a long time. I can be reincarnated to that

34:57

table forever

34:59

feels okay at that table.

35:03

That was a nice prize. Thank

35:05

you for that. Good. He's right.

35:08

It's been such a pleasure. Thank you so

35:10

much, lady. Likewise. Thank you. You're the game

35:12

master now. Next

35:19

week on Wild Card, we hear from actor

35:21

and first time director Chris Pine. He tells

35:23

me why making his new movie helped him

35:26

give up on seeking perfection. I

35:28

had joy, experienced joy. It still

35:30

gives me joy. That's it. That's

35:32

enough. There is no perfect. That

35:34

is perfect. Today's

35:39

episode was produced by Cher Vincent and

35:41

Lee Hale and edited by Dave Blanchard

35:43

with help from Lauren Gonzalez. It was

35:45

factored by Mary Glenn Dining and mastered

35:48

by Gilly Moon. Wild Card's executive

35:50

producer is Beth Donovan. Our theme

35:52

music is by Romteen Ariblui. And in

35:54

case you want to reach out to us, our

35:56

email is wildcard at npr.org. We're going to shuffle

35:58

the deck and be That was more next

36:00

week. See ya. We

36:30

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