0:02

Hey guys, it's Sammy Jay and welcome

0:04

back to this week's episode of The Left Bureau

0:06

Podcast. I hope your day is going well

0:09

and I hope this episode hopefully makes your day a little

0:11

bit better. This week I got to chat

0:13

with the incredibly talented writer,

0:16

director, actor James

0:18

Morrisini. And you may know him

0:20

from the film I Love My Dad, which

0:23

he wrote, starred, and directed.

0:25

We talked about everything from filmmaking

0:28

to college days and everything in between.

0:30

I hope you guys enjoyed this episode and

0:32

I'll see you in a bit. By James,

0:38

Welcome to the Last Bureau Podcast. How

0:40

are you? I'm good, I'm ready to be real.

0:43

I am so excited for this because it's so rare that

0:45

two people from the East Coast find each other

0:47

in l A. Is it that rare? I

0:50

find it very rare. Most people

0:52

I know are either from the Bay Area, Seattle,

0:56

or like twenty minutes outside about or

0:58

l A. It's good to meet fellow East

1:00

Coaster, you know. I can feel it in your

1:03

spirit. Really, that's so

1:05

interesting because a lot of people say are very

1:08

surprised when they find out I've gotten like, are

1:10

you from San Diego before? Like quite

1:12

a few times. No, there's like a knowing edge

1:14

to you. That's that's

1:17

that's how he coasted me. Yeah,

1:19

you're like, I don't have time for this. It's

1:22

the part of me that can cut through crowds

1:24

that when I can feel

1:26

that kind of that, I can feel

1:28

that attitude in you. I really can. It's

1:31

ingrained in me. I don't know how it's not when you're

1:33

born and raised in like in a city. How

1:35

do you think you'd be different if you're raised here. I

1:38

think I was thinking about this actually

1:40

because over the summer, I traveled for the first time

1:42

by myself, and I went

1:45

to Paris. It was like a big

1:47

trip, and I was thinking, like, man,

1:49

being in New York really taught me to kind of like

1:52

I know how to go forward and walk forward

1:54

without looking at anybody and just getting

1:56

my way through. And I think that

1:58

kind of way helped a lot when traveling especially.

2:01

I don't know if i'd have that. I

2:03

think I'm somebody that when I walked down the street,

2:06

I'm like kind of trying to make eye contact

2:08

with everybody. I don't know why I do

2:10

that. I think I just if you don't smile,

2:13

if you can get a little I don't know if I'm looking for a

2:15

smile or what what is going on

2:17

in my brain that causes me to do that, but it

2:19

is something I do. And then I'm like, I'm

2:22

like, oh, that person doesn't want to look at me. I

2:24

guess it's because I'm not good enough, you

2:27

know, I know what you mean. I'll be walking across campus

2:30

and I just I like to try and make

2:32

sure I don't have a resting bitch face, just

2:35

because you never know when opportunities arise

2:37

to meet people, so I try and have a nice

2:39

face. And I'm just like, how do you

2:41

feel when somebody just comes

2:44

right up to you, a stranger and it's like, hey, I

2:46

guess that doesn't really happen that all. I don't. I don't

2:48

know happen to you. No, I

2:50

don't. That's not really

2:52

something people do, like a strangers

2:55

coming up to you and being like hello, I'm this

2:57

person. And it's weird that happen,

2:59

Isn't it weird the that doesn't happen more often

3:01

that people just go up to you and go

3:04

hello, I'm Johnny

3:06

and you're like, hey, Johnny, what do you want? And they're like

3:08

nothing, I just thought i'd say hello and you're like,

3:10

well, dude, you want something, Johnny,

3:12

what's going on? I mean movies and

3:14

TV. I think gave me a very false sense of

3:16

what reality would be like just

3:19

going to high school. I thought it would be high school musical,

3:21

straight up, I feel like where And then it was

3:23

a bunch of prepubescent boys. I was like,

3:25

this is high school. Yeah, high school.

3:27

You were saying on the way up here that high school

3:29

is tricky for you, and I really

3:31

relate to that. It's I mean, high school

3:34

is tough because everybody is trying to

3:36

figure out who they are simultaneously.

3:39

So everybody's trying out different

3:41

versions of themselves and they're

3:43

all just kind of colliding into one another.

3:46

And meanwhile, you're trying out a version

3:48

of yourself and you're like, I

3:50

remember every summer, I

3:52

feel like I'd discover a

3:55

version myself that I thought was maybe more

3:57

likable, and then that first

4:00

week or two of school I'd be like, this

4:02

is the new me. Everyone. People

4:04

would be like, oh cool, and like they

4:06

would enjoy the novelty of this new

4:08

version of me, and then I would run out of steam

4:11

and then I would just revert to whoever I was, and ever

4:13

would be like, oh, it's just him. Still, it's

4:15

just so much easier to be yourself. It's

4:18

so hard add social media

4:21

onto it in this day and age when

4:23

everyone's still trying to figure out yourself. When

4:25

you have like pressures that you didn't

4:27

even know existed, it's how do you navigate

4:30

this? It's funny you're closer to the high

4:32

school experience than I am, So it's it's more

4:34

it was your what was your high school experience? Like

4:37

what I mean by closer is just it time

4:39

wise, You're it happened more recently

4:41

for you, whereas for me, I think I've

4:43

had an opportunity to process

4:46

it, and I don't know like you

4:48

have, like the distance, Yeah, like a few

4:51

years out from high school? Is

4:53

that kind of where you're at few years out, two

4:55

or three years out? Two years out? Yeah, it's like

4:58

I was still going, how did I even?

5:00

Like? That? Was terrible? And

5:03

so, but like you know, now I'm like, you know,

5:05

like like twelve years out from high school,

5:08

so I'm kind of like, huh, I'm able

5:10

to see the more perspective. Encountering

5:12

people from that period of

5:14

my life has been really Um,

5:16

I guess you just see them as people and you're like, oh,

5:19

man, that they're they're not really

5:21

scary anymore, and

5:23

you put them on a pedestal

5:26

that they're not bigger than life

5:28

as a character kind of yeah, exactly,

5:30

like a character. And because you don't know when

5:33

you're that age, you also haven't met that

5:35

many people. So each person you

5:37

meet feels like much

5:39

more of a distinct presence

5:41

that you're that feels like a character

5:43

like you. You're like, oh, that's this

5:46

person and that's the Whereas when you're

5:48

older, I think you just are like, if you don't like

5:50

somebody, you can move on a lot more quickly.

5:53

High school you're trapped without just

5:56

yeah, you're literally trapped with them,

5:58

Like, how's that at all? Ten? I

6:00

couldn't do that now. It felt really

6:03

big. I remember everything felt really

6:05

big. But for me, what

6:08

was my outlet was my work. So

6:10

it would give me a perspective to be like, Okay,

6:12

this feels really big, but wait,

6:15

there is a whole career out there, something

6:17

that I want to do that's bigger than myself. And

6:19

that kind of pulled me away from the high

6:22

school. And so I think having an outlet was

6:24

really helpful for me, and having

6:26

it be around adults made me realize like,

6:29

Okay, this is only temporary,

6:31

because I really did not thrive in that, and I've always

6:33

gotten along better with adults just because I've

6:35

always felt older than my age. I've

6:38

always felt similarly, it's hard to

6:40

remember the temporariness of

6:42

high school when you're you're like, this

6:44

is what it is. Everything, this

6:46

isn't what it is, yeah, and

6:48

you can't really wrap your head around what it would look

6:51

like after high school. When you're

6:53

in high school, I know, I remember it

6:55

like college, what is college?

6:57

And then when I got to college, I was like, oh, this is

6:59

just a different type of social experiment, Like

7:02

this is just really you put a bunch of people

7:04

from all over the country, all over the

7:06

world, grown up in different you

7:09

know, places, different areas,

7:11

different people, and then

7:14

put them living together in two or three people

7:16

a room, share a bathroom and

7:18

just post pandemic and see

7:20

what happens. So I feel like that's a reality

7:23

show in itself. I feel like it is.

7:25

Yeah, living through it felt

7:27

like was like something that I didn't realize going

7:29

into college was that I was like, oh,

7:32

my goodness, there's gonna be so many more mature

7:34

people. But I didn't take into account that

7:36

it's just people from high school also going

7:38

to college freshman

7:41

year and sophomore year. There is that transition

7:43

of this isn't high school anymore, this is

7:45

life. And some people, you can tell there, will

7:47

always be stuck in high school a little bit. But

7:49

it's really interesting kind of seeing that evolution

7:52

of people just in the past couple of years.

7:55

Are Yeah, I think some people

7:57

get to high school and then they stay there for

8:00

ever and they're kind of always

8:02

locked into that version of themselves.

8:04

What a shame not to grow. Well, that just

8:06

doesn't sound fun to me. So

8:11

was it during high school or college? I know you went to

8:13

college for film, but when did you start making

8:16

films and being interested in

8:18

filmmaking and creating as a whole.

8:21

Yeah, it's funny. So I went to college for

8:23

theater and film that so yeah,

8:25

So I was studying acting and then I was also

8:28

making a lot of things. And when you're studying acting

8:30

at like a conservatory, you're doing

8:32

like voice classes and movement

8:35

classes, and like seeing

8:37

study and voice and movement classes,

8:39

you're I mean, you're essentially you're

8:42

like rolling around on the floor. I

8:44

mean, for anyone that hasn't taken a voice

8:46

class, if you solve voice class, you'd

8:48

be like, this is the craziest thing. You're

8:51

like on the floor basically doing like

8:53

different yoga positions a lot of the time,

8:55

and then and then making like sounds

8:57

like you're trying to connect with your like your

9:01

diaphragm and your because it's for theaters,

9:04

it's super vulnerable, and you're also trying to like

9:07

learn how to access the

9:09

emotion that lives in your body through

9:11

sound. Similarly with movement,

9:14

just on the movement from But so that's

9:16

what my college experience was like. When

9:18

you study theater in a program

9:21

like that, you're you're really you learn a lot about

9:23

who you are and about

9:25

your I hate myself for saying

9:27

this, but your instrument and what

9:30

what you're made of, But you

9:32

know, I didn't. I've always been

9:34

a creative person. When I was a little kid,

9:37

I remember I would go up to my room and I

9:39

would make comics and

9:41

I would like come up with stories

9:44

and then I would get really into the world of

9:46

the story and I would I would write

9:49

and draw these comics. I

9:51

don't know where they came from. I never

9:54

really showed them to anybody storyboarding

9:56

before storyboarding, and I

9:58

was super I was just like I was always

10:00

really into this idea that like I could tell

10:03

a story, and the more of

10:05

the story I told, the more real it

10:07

felt, and that I could just keep exploring,

10:10

and there was like more and more the

10:12

further into it I went. I remember

10:15

I wrote this little comic book

10:17

about I think I was probably ten

10:19

or eleven years old, about like a

10:21

bunch of like misfit medics

10:24

like E. M. T. S. It was called

10:26

Breathe and they were all these like funky

10:28

characters that were like trying to save people

10:31

and stuff, and I like wrote several

10:33

issues of it, and then I started the

10:36

first like big creative

10:39

endeavor I think I had. I mean, my

10:41

dad got me a video camera when I was a little

10:43

kid, and uh, I would like

10:46

make little movies of my action figures

10:48

and I would like do stop motion with my action

10:51

figures. Well it did,

10:53

yeah, And so it's like I did a lot of that kind

10:55

of stuff. I was always directing my home

10:57

videos, but I didn't I didn't necessarily

11:00

think about it like I'm a film director.

11:02

I just liked the idea of crafting

11:04

things and putting it together. And

11:06

then in high school I made a lot

11:09

of shorts and stuff with my video

11:11

class, and I would act in other people's

11:13

things. But I didn't really do any theater in

11:15

high school. I don't know. I found it hard to

11:18

connect with the folks at my school

11:20

that we're doing theater. And I

11:22

was more than like sports. I was boxing,

11:24

I was wrestling. I was like, I

11:26

smoked a lot of pot when I was in high

11:28

school. Would you say smoking weed

11:30

helped you creatively? No, I think it

11:32

hurt me creatively. It made me really

11:35

paranoid and neurotic. And it's

11:37

funny because I remember watching like Fast

11:39

Times at Ridgemont High or Dazed and confused

11:42

and half baked, and I was like, I loved

11:44

stoner comedies and I was always

11:46

looking for the experience that characters

11:49

in those films were having around weed. But but

11:51

I could never get there. I always

11:53

just felt like it made my brain move too

11:55

fast and made me have

11:58

this like meta experiences

12:00

to whatever I was actually experiencing,

12:02

Like it like oversensitized

12:05

me and made me question everything,

12:07

and I like I couldn't. It made me super

12:10

paranoid. I think a paranoid

12:12

bad high is the worst feeling. And

12:14

that was like every time for me, and I smoked

12:16

every day. I don't know.

12:18

I think I think I was like I

12:21

liked the identity that it gave me of like,

12:23

oh, I'm a stoner. I think I fetishized

12:26

the idea of Like I don't know, there's

12:28

a part of me that thought it was kind of luxurious. Like

12:30

I get home, I smoke a blunt.

12:33

But I would do it and then I would just panic

12:35

for the rest of the day wants

12:39

not exactly like I would try to make it

12:41

enjoyable for myself, Like I would make

12:44

a bunch of food and like put on a movie, but I'd

12:46

be like breaking out.

12:49

You're like, I like this, I promised why exactly?

12:51

So then in terms of the filmmaking

12:54

I was doing, I would like film

12:56

when they were like fights at my school sometimes,

12:59

like if they were people that were mad

13:02

at each other in school, they

13:04

would like plan a fight. They

13:06

would go like, Okay, we're gonna meet up the basketball

13:09

court after school. Uh.

13:11

I was participant to

13:13

a couple of those throughout my high school experience,

13:16

but we would I would film those and

13:18

then share them with people because they

13:20

were crazy looking. Um, but

13:22

I was like, yeah,

13:24

I was like really into that. And then

13:26

I was like making kind of Jackass type

13:29

videos. I was really in the c k Y at

13:31

the time, which was a predecessor to Jackass.

13:34

And I was also really in the Jackass and and I

13:36

was watching so many

13:38

films and it's funny, I wasn't

13:40

like. I wasn't like, oh, I'm a film kid.

13:43

I just was obsessed with movies. And

13:45

I didn't really have a ton of friends

13:47

that were also obsessed with movies. I was kind

13:49

of doing it on my own. And

13:52

then after school, I took a year

13:54

off and I was in New York

13:56

and I tried working as an actor. Um,

14:00

not super well, but

14:03

you know, at least you did it. I tried, uh,

14:06

And I just like it was just like

14:09

I didn't. I hadn't really

14:11

developed like life tools

14:13

yet to to really be able to navigate

14:16

the ups and downs of that. And I

14:18

think so much of any creative

14:21

work is about like really

14:23

being okay with yourself in a way, or

14:25

or like having confidence

14:27

in your voice, and I hadn't.

14:30

I didn't have that confidence in

14:32

my voice. I don't think now I have extreme

14:35

confidence, not in the

14:37

most confident, but it's

14:39

funny I'm saying that. I'm also like, sometimes

14:42

i feel like I'm creating from a place of my

14:44

insecurity, and I'm like doing it

14:47

to express what that

14:49

feels like. So it's it's funny. I don't

14:51

know if you necessarily need to feel confident

14:54

to be fake it

14:57

till we make it, or just be really honest

14:59

about like I would. I think I've gotten

15:01

a lot more comfortable being really honest about

15:04

who I am and what I'm feeling. And I

15:06

think that's uh, that's helped

15:08

me create from a from a place that I

15:10

that resonates with me more. And

15:13

I feel like that's kind of the compass I used

15:15

to to determine if it's going to resonate with audiences

15:17

and other people. And it's kind

15:20

of one of those things where if you talk about something

15:22

and no one talks about it, and you talk about

15:24

you realize people are going through it too, and

15:26

then other people start talking about it, and it's

15:28

just a chain reaction. It's just about getting the first

15:30

one going. It's so true. I know, it's

15:33

it's weird that many of us go through

15:35

the world, and there's this feeling like we all

15:37

have to pretend like we're doing great when

15:40

in reality, like when we're on

15:42

our own a lot of the time, we're not. We're

15:44

anxious about something or that it's

15:46

totally okay and it's very normal. I

15:48

think that's what drew me to filmmaking, was like

15:51

trying to capture that experience, that

15:54

universal experience that we're all that we're

15:56

all having on our own or in our own

15:58

minds, and but do it in a context

16:00

that was super entertaining and weird and funky.

16:03

Do you remember the first movie you wrote? Oh,

16:05

that's a great question. I mean, so the first

16:08

like actual movie I wrote, Like,

16:10

the first feature I wrote was about my high

16:12

school experience, and I

16:14

still might make that movie. I think

16:17

movies about high school experiences,

16:19

like real high school experiences, need to be made

16:21

more like I think Eighth Grade showed that

16:23

really well. I hope that gets made because

16:25

it can relate to it. Yeah, that movie is called

16:28

Acne, and it feels kind

16:30

of like eighth Grade meets Good

16:32

Fellas. Okay, that's I

16:34

love the pitch. Yeah, that's that's kind

16:36

of how I how I think about it. Um,

16:38

but the first movie

16:41

I think I ever wrote. I mean, it's

16:43

it's hard to remember exactly. I think

16:46

I wrote something in college. It

16:48

was about a really sensitive t rex

16:51

that I couldn't um. He couldn't

16:53

connect with anybody because everyone was really scared

16:55

of him. Sounds like an animated show. It was

16:57

an animated show. Yeah. It was like it was really

17:00

sensitive t rex that couldn't and

17:02

and all the other dinosaurs were terrified

17:04

of him, and he was like and everyone

17:06

was like the other t Rexes were like, dude,

17:09

you gotta get it together, Like you're kind of

17:12

like you're kind of like, why

17:15

are he's so over released? And

17:17

he was like he just felt really awkward

17:19

with his little arms, like he

17:21

he felt uncomfortable in his own skin.

17:24

I think I was maybe working something out

17:26

through this sensitive t rex.

17:28

And I remember I shared it with a filmmaker

17:31

that I was in school

17:33

with. I think I went were at Coachella

17:36

and I told him about it and there's

17:38

always a great place for a business, bitch, and

17:41

he just kind of shipped on it. I mean, he just told

17:43

me how he just

17:46

like made me feel like it was a bad idea.

17:48

And it's funny, like thinking about it now, I'm

17:50

like, that actually sounds like a cool

17:52

show. Like I I don't know. So

17:54

much of creating is just going like trusting

17:58

your gut and being like, if I think it's cool, then

18:00

it's cool. I don't care what anyone else thinks.

18:03

It's like you can listen to what other people

18:05

are saying, but like it's not no

18:08

one has any idea what

18:11

they're talking about. And it's the people

18:13

that are making brilliant

18:15

work are just the people that have really

18:17

realized that the most fully.

18:20

And you're just kind of like, yeah, I think it's

18:22

cool, and I'm going to follow what I

18:24

like. Yeah, And it's having success

18:27

mean to you, being like if it's not

18:29

successful, it doesn't make a lot of money. I'm

18:31

so proud of what I made because that's

18:33

what it should be. We

18:36

have to take a quick break, but when we come back,

18:39

I'm going to talk about the balance between the

18:41

economics of filmmaking versus

18:43

doing something that satisfies you creatively,

18:46

your film, I love my Dad and so

18:48

much more. We'll be right back and

18:56

we're back. You know, it's hard when

18:58

you're a filmmaker. You have to

19:00

make a living and you have to be realistic,

19:02

but at the same time, it's your creative pursuit.

19:05

So how do you balance the two

19:07

of those? Yeah, it's a great question. I mean when

19:09

I first got out of college, I

19:12

was catering

19:14

and bartending and working as

19:17

a uh table service

19:19

assistant to cocktail waitresses at

19:21

nightclubs, Like I was just doing

19:23

anything I could to make ends

19:25

meet, uh And then I was also auditioning

19:28

a ton and um

19:30

and it was a tricky time in my life. I was getting these

19:32

migraines constantly,

19:35

like several a week, to the

19:37

point where they were debilitating, and so

19:39

it was kind of a dark time right after college

19:42

where I was trying to figure

19:44

out work as an actor and a filmmaker

19:47

and I couldn't really I was just like

19:49

too anxiety written to

19:51

to really land anything. And then I

19:53

was working long, long nights

19:56

working in the service industry and then

19:58

barely making ends meet to live in like

20:00

this tiny, tiny studio apartment

20:03

in Hollywood, And so for

20:05

a while, the balance was just like how do I

20:07

survive? And then how do I

20:09

But I held myself to account that I was going

20:11

to spend at least one hour

20:14

every day on my creative work.

20:16

And and and was going to spend an

20:18

hour day just focusing on what really

20:21

excited me creatively, and

20:23

then that hour grew and became

20:26

longer. But I just knew, Okay, if

20:29

I can, it's funny. Uh. My

20:31

uncle was the actor Christopher Reeve uh

20:34

and very famous actor, very famous

20:37

actor, and I when he passed

20:39

away. Philip Seymour Hoffman was

20:41

around my family

20:43

a lot and was really good

20:46

to my cousin, Will Chris's

20:48

son, and he told me that I

20:50

should just you just have to do one

20:53

creative thing every day, or one thing

20:55

towards your goal every day, even if it's

20:57

small. But if you do that, if you do one

21:00

thing every day, it it occrets

21:02

and those small actions become

21:05

big results or they become consequential.

21:07

So that's kind of that was

21:09

kind of my mantra for the

21:11

first couple of years out of college. And then I started

21:14

working as an actor, so I had some money,

21:17

uh, not a ton, but I had enough

21:19

to pay my rent. I didn't have to cater

21:22

and barton stuff anymore. And then I started

21:25

being able to have free time to write and

21:28

make stuff, and

21:30

I was able to upgrade to a more comfortable

21:32

living situation and started meeting

21:35

having more friends out here and collaborating

21:38

with them. And but in terms of

21:40

this balance of like creative

21:42

and financial, you know, at

21:45

the end of the day, like it's just the most

21:47

satisfying thing is being able to make exactly

21:49

what you want to make. So for the movie

21:52

that I just made, I Love my Dad, the

21:54

person that financed it gave me final

21:56

cut on the movie, so I was able to

21:59

make exactly the movie that I wanted to make. Yeah,

22:02

And so contractually I was making

22:04

every decision, uh, and

22:07

having that creative authority meant

22:09

a lot to me and allowed me to just give

22:11

everything I had to the process. But you

22:14

know, now I'm getting presented

22:16

with a lot of really compelling

22:18

offers that have big financial upside

22:22

behind them, and sometimes the scripts are

22:24

not good, or sometimes there are elements

22:27

to the project that aren't creatively exciting,

22:29

and it's required a lot

22:31

of discipline, uh, navigating

22:35

quality over quantity, quality over

22:37

quantity, or just like not not operating

22:39

out of fear and going like, Okay,

22:42

well I'll just take this because it's a lot of money,

22:44

and then I'll do what

22:47

I'm creatively excited by. It's like

22:50

It's required this kind of internal

22:53

diligence of going, what is the

22:55

weirdest, craziest, funkiest

22:57

thing that I can imagine? And how can I

23:00

how can I continue getting behind that? You

23:02

know, regardless of what I'm making for or

23:05

whatever. That's that's how I feel most myself.

23:07

You know, that is so interesting you say that because

23:10

I've been living by that I called the one percent

23:12

rule, just doing one thing a day to make yourself better

23:14

in one aspect, and it's

23:17

I've also been doing one thing a day to make myself

23:19

uncomfortable. Boy, it's made

23:21

me uncomfortable. And I

23:24

I am an anxious, girly at heart. Um so

23:26

it really pushes me. I'm an anxiously at

23:28

heart. I love that we finally always

23:30

find each other. Um No, I

23:33

found for me at least. I've grown

23:35

up with anxiety and o c D my entire life,

23:37

and it's just been very interesting

23:40

to navigate because I always felt like there

23:42

was something wrong with me or

23:44

that I wasn't good at something. And so for me,

23:47

podcasting was an interviewing was the first

23:49

time I realized, like, wait a second,

23:51

there is something I'm good at. I can't tell a

23:54

story I can't talk to people, and

23:56

so it's kind of what I first fell in love. And

23:58

so I feel like just santly,

24:00

like I never thought i'd fall into this, and just

24:02

I'm trying to immerse myself and as many

24:05

mediums and varieties as

24:07

possible. So that reminded me of

24:09

that. Oh so cool. Yeah, what what

24:11

was the first Do you remember the first podcast you ever

24:13

did? Oh? Yeah, so

24:16

I am the biggest. Do you

24:18

ever hear the song Anxiety by Julia Michaels

24:21

and Selina Gomez. Uh,

24:23

maybe I'd recognize it if I heard it, Okay,

24:25

So when I first heard this song, I was

24:28

like going through it in high school and

24:30

I was working for Radio Disney at the time. Um,

24:33

and I had interviewed Julian Michaels, who sang the

24:35

song, who, like I was obsessed with her music.

24:38

Um, and she remembered me and was about the time

24:40

the podcast was happening. UM,

24:42

And I was like, if Julie Michaels

24:45

could be the pilot on my podcast, like that would

24:47

be a dream. And the

24:49

head of Radio Disney, who I told about

24:52

the pilot, was like, oh, I'm friends with her. I'll ask you

24:54

interviewed her, and then she agreed to do

24:56

the pilot. I had never done a long

24:58

form interview before. Longest I've done

25:00

with twelve minutes, and then we did an hour and a half

25:02

interview. And then usually

25:05

with podcast series, you you know, waited

25:07

until it's edited to see if it gets greenlight. Mine

25:10

was a little bit different because after nine

25:12

days still and edited, we got green light

25:14

to series after that episode. So I,

25:16

oh, Julia like so much,

25:19

you know, And that was

25:21

the start of it. And how doing

25:23

one thing a day, whether it's small or big, is truly

25:25

like just changed my life.

25:28

So I live by that. So cool.

25:30

Yeah, I mean that's that's definitely how I've

25:32

proceeded through my life as well. I mean, what

25:36

was the last thing that he did that was uncomfortable?

25:39

Oh my goodness, I asked someone out

25:41

for coffee. Wow, that's always so hard.

25:43

It isn't that weird that that feels

25:47

so climaxic, But you know what, it counts as

25:49

my one thing a day. I also my

25:52

viewers, notice if I've been doing tap this this

25:54

semester, I've never tapped before. I'm

25:57

doing it again next semester. Just to pick

25:59

up some I took a ballet

26:01

class in college. Um,

26:04

and it was it was, it

26:07

was, it was, it was. It

26:10

was humbling. It was me almost

26:12

all women and then a couple,

26:15

uh, a couple of football players

26:18

that I think we're taking it for

26:20

balance balance, I think. I mean, so

26:22

it was. I feel like I would like goof

26:25

around with them, and then sometimes I would get really into

26:27

it and like it's it's it's fun

26:29

always like pushing forward your

26:31

hobby or your passion in one way, and

26:33

whether that's writing an email to someone or

26:35

doing an activity to like progress yourself.

26:37

Like it's so simple, but just breaking

26:40

it down has been super helpful for Yeah,

26:43

it's like I think, I guess I think about

26:45

it like the more like any time

26:47

I have like the quietest instinct

26:50

in my mind, I try to just bring it to the

26:52

surface and I try to listen to it and I try to just

26:54

act on it. I journal a

26:56

lot, and it helps me discover what

26:59

those impulses might be. Uh,

27:01

And when I'm creating something,

27:04

that's really my primary tool is having

27:06

this like ongoing long

27:08

form conversation with myself so

27:10

that I can be like, oh, this

27:13

thing is important to me or that thing or like it

27:15

helps me detect things

27:18

that might feel off about what I'm doing

27:20

or like something that might be bothering me.

27:23

So much of my creative

27:26

life and the way I'm

27:28

try to navigate my life as a whole

27:30

feel like they're operating

27:33

around the same principles, which is like sometimes

27:36

like sensitizing myself to

27:38

to what things feel like or what

27:40

I'm aiming at um or

27:42

what I want or what I don't want, But like, how

27:45

deeply can I listen to

27:47

to what is actually happening in my mind

27:50

and in my environment

27:52

and what's being reflected back to me, And

27:54

then how can I work with that feeling

27:57

and shape it really

27:59

or put it into a context like

28:02

a film or a story or whatever.

28:04

But how can I express that feeling in a way that

28:07

is satisfying for me to divulge?

28:10

You know, I think it's such a relief

28:12

when you express a deep, nuanced

28:15

feeling that you've been holding onto.

28:17

It's such a relief to express that and then

28:19

have somebody go I feel the same way. And

28:21

so I feel like, why I

28:23

am a filmmaker or an actor or any

28:25

of these things, it is just because I'm going there

28:28

is I think it's my outlet, and

28:30

I feel like I'm inherently kind of

28:32

often pretty uncomfortable, and

28:35

it's it's like it's like it's like a coping

28:37

mech. It's like, hey, does anyone

28:39

else feel this? Like? What's going

28:41

on? This can't be right? Does anybody else?

28:43

Is anybody else feeling this? Or like if

28:45

I have a moment where I, you know, something

28:48

strikes me as like extremely

28:50

beautiful and I'm like, oh God, I

28:52

want somebody else to share

28:54

in this thing that I'm experiencing

28:56

and it comes from a place of like a

28:59

real loneliness really and like but wanting

29:01

to share with other people in that feeling

29:03

and go like hey

29:06

am I alone here? Or or other people

29:08

feeling this way too. Okay,

29:12

we have to take one final break, but when

29:14

we come back, I want to talk more about anxiety

29:17

and how it affects your filmmaking process.

29:19

You're amazing movie, I love my dad

29:21

and so much more. We'll be right

29:23

back and

29:29

we're back. How has your

29:32

anxiety affect your filmmaking

29:34

or does it or do you feel more yourself

29:37

and it helps with your anxiety when you're

29:39

working or does it have the opposite

29:41

effect for you? It's a great question. I

29:43

think it's a it's it's

29:45

kind of both things, honestly, Like when

29:48

I'm making a film,

29:50

Uh, sometimes anxiety,

29:55

I've found is helpful

29:57

in that it forces me into

29:59

action, but it's often not

30:02

totally, but it's it's often not

30:06

the kind of action that produces the best

30:08

results. So by that, I mean if

30:10

I'm like anxiously we gotta

30:12

get this, I've got to write this, or I've got to get

30:14

this take, or we've got to do this, or that it contaminates

30:17

everybody else's headspace

30:20

and makes them anxious to which I think

30:22

limits people's ability to

30:24

be free and create

30:26

from a place of trust and playfulness.

30:30

Totally. It's like we're all of a sudden creating

30:34

and operating from place of fear, which

30:36

is just not fun.

30:40

Yeah, and it should be playful, and I think that it's

30:43

hard to have Uh,

30:45

it should be fun because you're asking an audience

30:48

to have fun. I look at the

30:50

experience of a film that I'm making is

30:52

like the experience I imagine of

30:54

a of a good friend or person

30:57

of like, And you want that person to be free

30:59

and playful and silly and deep

31:02

and dynamic. And if you're freaking

31:04

out. You know, you don't want to be with a friend that's

31:06

just like freaking out and that and

31:09

and nervous. So they're

31:11

just making small talk and don't

31:13

have freedom of expression. So short,

31:16

my anxiety compels me into action. But

31:19

I feel like I'm in uh,

31:21

I'm in my strike zone when I'm like

31:23

letting go of that as much as i can, and

31:26

I take some deep breaths, and I'm

31:28

I'm kind of slowing way down,

31:31

and I'm just giving myself permission to be exactly

31:33

where I am and creating from that place.

31:35

And I think the work I've done from

31:38

that place is the work I'm the proudest of

31:40

because I think it delivers that same experience

31:43

to an audience. I mean, I definitely felt

31:45

that way with I Love my Dad. I

31:47

genuinely love how it's written,

31:49

the social media elements that are throughout

31:52

the way. It's like it's just so

31:54

well done. And I know it's

31:56

based on a true story from when you're

31:58

growing up. Do often pull from

32:01

true stores or do you like to create generally

32:03

something fresh. It's sometimes

32:05

useful jumping off point because

32:08

it feels like I have something

32:11

that's really something to say about

32:14

whatever that you've experienced.

32:17

Yeah, I have some authority around

32:19

that subject, but I I

32:21

generally am using it just as a jumping

32:24

off point because I think that

32:26

that if I'm like trying to

32:29

capture it very literally,

32:31

that's not the point and it doesn't that

32:34

it's bigger than that, and like it needs

32:37

to be a window into the universal.

32:40

It's not just the thing itself. I mean,

32:43

it's like taking elements of it and then going

32:46

thinking about the theme and what you're trying to say.

32:48

Like with my movie, it's metaphorically

32:51

and poetically and emotionally all

32:53

true. But I wasn't beholden

32:55

to beat by beat what literally

32:57

occurred, because nobody care.

33:00

It doesn't matter. It's it's about how do I as

33:03

a catalyst, Yeah, and how do I deliver

33:07

the felt experience? So

33:09

what was pre production? Like, how long did

33:11

it take you to write the script generally? And

33:13

then at what point did you

33:15

go into production? Yeah? I think I took

33:18

like a year or so to write the script. Uh,

33:21

the movie was going to be called Age Sex

33:23

Location very

33:26

different back in the day. For people

33:28

that are familiar with were you on like a O

33:30

L instant messenger? Was that before your time, I

33:33

wasn't on a well, but I'm very My mom

33:35

is still on a well. She

33:37

has not gone to Gmail. There

33:40

were like chat rooms like

33:43

a sl and then you'd be like fifteen

33:46

m M A or whatever and

33:48

you'd like meet random people that way.

33:51

Uh, that that was the thing, and so that there

33:53

was I was kind of pulling from that whole

33:56

realm of my past. And then as

33:59

the story where he took more shape,

34:02

the title shifted and the subject

34:05

really shifted to what it became,

34:07

and the writing process was super

34:10

iterative. I would share it with a lot of folks.

34:13

I got a lot of help, uh,

34:15

And I continue to get a lot of help in

34:18

everything I do because I

34:20

try to surround myself with really smart creative

34:23

people and really listen to what their

34:25

thoughts are. And it can only make your work

34:27

better. It makes you work better, and even

34:29

if you get feedback that you think is not

34:32

accurate, it helps you understand

34:34

what you are chasing and what you are after.

34:37

And so yeah, I took it about a year, and

34:39

then I brought Patent on board, and then

34:41

I built the cast around Patent and

34:43

then we shot it in June and July

34:45

of and um

34:48

in Syracuse, New York with the company

34:50

called American High who had done a lot of

34:53

uh like high school set movies

34:56

for Hulu. So we had all of

34:58

our production services and stuff run

35:00

through them, and then they may be good for acne. You never

35:02

know, right totally, and and

35:04

um they were great. We also

35:06

worked with a great company called hands Motion Pictures

35:09

and burn Later and several other

35:11

folks you know. And I

35:13

edited the movie, sent it off to south

35:16

By and then how long did take?

35:18

Probably like eight to ten weeks.

35:21

The toughest parts of the process were

35:23

like getting the tone

35:25

right in the edit, because it's it's such a

35:27

delicate tone, it's so

35:30

specific, like it could so easily feel

35:32

like I didn't want it to feel slapsticky,

35:35

and I also didn't want it to feel like hyper

35:38

sentimentalized. It needed to kind of

35:40

have this balance of sincerity

35:42

and sarcasm where there was this kind

35:45

of tonal ambiguity throughout where you weren't

35:47

exactly sure how you should be feeling about

35:49

it. I wanted to have the audience feel

35:51

a little on edge, because that's

35:53

really the feeling that I think I

35:56

had growing up, especially with my dad,

35:59

of just like where are what

36:01

what's happening? What's happening? Are you being ostening?

36:03

Are you? Are we in a good place?

36:06

Are we? Is there tension? Like this

36:08

kind of feeling like you're on your back foot?

36:11

That that kind of push and pull throughout

36:13

the story. And it's funny. I was, I mean, I was kind

36:15

of making two movies in one where

36:18

it's like in my character Franklin's

36:21

world, he's kind of in this rom

36:23

com where he's like, I finally

36:25

found I found someone. She's

36:28

amazing, you know. Uh,

36:30

We're lucky to have Claudia Saluski play

36:32

that part I know what you talked to and she

36:34

was just phenomenal and killed

36:38

it. I mean, she really kind of captured

36:40

the spirit of what was required there.

36:42

And then we're lucky to have Patton Oswald to

36:44

play Chuck, who plays

36:46

my dad in the film Franklin's

36:48

Dad. The casting is just so it's

36:51

so perfect because it

36:53

just it feels real and realistic.

36:56

I don't know, I felt like the casting of Claudie

36:58

was perfect because she's gorgeous, so

37:01

she you know, could play a catfish,

37:03

but also has this great personality. We

37:05

get to see her character unravel a bit too, totally

37:08

yeah, So it's it's it's funny. It's like I was making

37:10

this, I'm a big believer that

37:12

genre should come from the character

37:15

in the film, like what movie do they

37:17

think they're in? Because we're kind of subjectively

37:19

rooted in them and sometimes it's fun to

37:21

subvert that and have the character think they're

37:23

in a different film than they aren't. And in the case

37:25

of my film, that was kind of the case. My

37:27

character thinks he's in a rom com and

37:29

then from Chuck's perspective, he's

37:32

in like uncut Gems or something

37:34

like. He's he's fish

37:37

like his life is unraveling and he's

37:39

just trying to keep up. In every decision

37:41

he makes, it just gets worse and worse and

37:44

worse. Wow. And so

37:46

all in all of you spent about two years

37:49

on this film, I'd say

37:51

maybe to two

37:53

or three. I mean it's funny, like

37:55

once you release a movie, you're you still

37:57

do you know? I traveled around

38:00

ound the country doing festivals,

38:03

which is a whole other world

38:05

itself. What was it like going into

38:08

festivals? I mean, just so fun.

38:10

It's a movie that was really exciting to

38:12

see in theater because it's

38:14

there are parts that are so uncomfortable

38:18

and and you're

38:20

just like, it's so fun to watch with other

38:22

people because you're able to kind of delight

38:24

in the discomfort together, similar to

38:26

how you'd experience like a horror movie, where

38:29

the more people you're watching with, the more fun

38:31

it is because you're getting to hear people's people

38:34

screaming and reacting to it. And there's

38:36

like another that's another part

38:38

of the whole experience, just going to the

38:40

theaters. Finally, and being able to be in a theater.

38:43

I was with my friend when I watched it, and my

38:45

reaction, which is, yeah,

38:48

it's like and it's it's fun because you're then

38:50

able to like connect with the person or

38:52

people you're with watching this movie, and we'll

38:55

be on Hulu. I think by the time anyone

38:57

who's listening to this, here's this and

38:59

so yeah, I just encourage people to watch

39:01

it with somebody else because I think it's

39:04

it's kind it's a tough watch. I think

39:06

to watch solo, I mean it'd be fun,

39:08

it'd be fun, but still make you crawl

39:11

a little bit in your skin. Yeah, I mean

39:13

it's fun to kind of celebrate how

39:16

heightened and uncomfortable like that I definitely

39:18

made it for that.

39:21

You build it up to the point like

39:24

like how how crazy it

39:26

gets. I wanted to be

39:28

celebrated like with other people,

39:30

like so that you're it's like you're like, oh my god,

39:33

I don't know. I'm a big fan of like when somebody

39:35

is telling me a story or I'm telling somebody a

39:38

story of like an awkward thing that happened.

39:40

There's something just fun about

39:42

like collectively cringing. It's

39:44

the collective cringing not knowing what's going to happen.

39:46

Now. Yeah, you're like please, no, no, no, no,

39:49

You're like, but yes, yeah, yeah,

39:51

yeah, you're like And it's weird. It's almost

39:54

like this massochistic appetite

39:56

that we have to like see how

39:58

bad it can get, because I think it watching the car

40:00

crash, you can't look exactly

40:02

exactly, and when we're watching like a social

40:05

car crash, I think there's something that's weirdly

40:07

healing about it because we

40:09

can relate so strongly

40:12

and we've all been there where we're just like how

40:15

am I in this conversation or like there's

40:17

this misunderstanding or there's something

40:19

in the unspoken and it

40:21

makes us feel so lonely because

40:23

we're like, gosh, I wish somebody

40:25

else was witnessed

40:28

to this feeling that I'm having. And so you've

40:31

communicated with anyone via the internet,

40:33

you can relate to totally.

40:35

So the festival experience is great. It was just

40:38

exciting to see different

40:40

parts of the country react differently. Um,

40:44

I mean, you get to see all these places that you

40:46

normally wouldn't. I got to spend a week in

40:48

Nantucket. I was in Seattle, I was

40:50

in Traverse City, a

40:53

little bit everywhere, so fun. And then and

40:55

then I was able to go internationally.

40:57

I was like, I showed the film in London

40:59

and they really dug it. I was

41:01

in Rome, and then the movie

41:03

continued all around the country, all

41:06

around the world, and it was just it's

41:08

just cool to see all these different

41:10

groups of people experienced the film differently.

41:13

And it's just going to keep going. It's

41:15

just gonna keep it's creating a life over

41:17

itself. I know. It's such a trip and

41:19

it's something you've created and that's awesome, and

41:21

I'm excited to see what you do next, whether

41:24

writing, directing, acting. I'm

41:27

just I think you're the way you go about

41:29

filmmaking is really smart, just from

41:31

the character's perspective and not having an overall

41:33

like it has to be this theme because not a lot

41:35

of people, I feel like, go from that perspective,

41:38

but it goes to the human element of it, which is what

41:40

we're all drawn to. Thank you. Thank

41:42

you for coming on my podcast and taking the time

41:45

and this was so crazy, This was really

41:47

fun. Thanks for having me. I

41:49

appreciate