0:00

Hi, guys, It's Sammy

0:02

J. And welcome back to this week's

0:04

episode of the Lesbie World Podcast.

0:07

This is our season four finale, which

0:09

is absurd to think about the past

0:12

fifty two episodes and four seasons.

0:14

I'm more grateful for this experience

0:16

than I can ever say. And to kick

0:19

off this finale, what better way

0:21

than to chat with the incredible

0:23

after performer dancer Dole

0:26

Hill. This might be one of my favorite

0:28

episodes of all time. I'm just gonna say it.

0:30

I started the episode by bringing

0:32

a pineapple because if you are a fan of

0:34

the show psych and you are a psycho, you

0:37

know you know. Anyways, I love you, guys,

0:39

and I hope you love this episode. Two. Hello

0:43

everyone, and welcome to this week's episode of

0:45

the Letsbie Oral Podcast. I am

0:47

so honored because I am sitting next to

0:49

the one and only Dole Hill. Thank

0:51

you so much for coming on. It's my

0:53

pledge, is my pledging. You have such

0:56

a unique perspective, and I think you're such an underrated

0:58

artist because you've been in the business for so long

1:00

and you've been in such a variety of stuff.

1:03

But before we start, I

1:06

feel like it needs to be sad that

1:09

I'm a psycho and

1:12

and I'm so excited to get into this conversation. Well,

1:15

I'm glad that you are a psycho. I'm glad to be

1:17

here, and I'm glad that you are a fan of Delicious

1:19

Flavor. Absolutely, the psych

1:21

world really holds a place close to my heart,

1:24

like the entire fan base. Not just it's

1:26

it's a it's a whole, it's a whole thing, figger than itself

1:29

at this point, it really is. And what I love about the psyche

1:31

world is that I feel like I feel that psychos

1:34

celebrate and appreciate our unique

1:36

idiosyncrasy is what makes us different.

1:39

You know, some folks may think we're like

1:41

in general, made me think we were Like

1:44

people might think Gus is a cornball, but

1:46

psychos celebrate that like that's

1:49

Gus is who he is, and it's and he's worth celebrating.

1:51

And not not only on the show itself, but

1:53

I think that is translated into the whole site community.

1:56

We celebrate what makes us unique, our

1:58

unique glow full like a pineapple.

2:01

Have you ever tried white pineapples? A real question? I

2:03

have not. I've never even heard of white pineapples.

2:05

Okay, so when I was in Hawaii,

2:08

they have white pineapple and it's white on the

2:10

inside and it's like pineapple without the acidity.

2:13

Really, you're sweeten. Really it

2:16

is heaven. If you can never get

2:18

your hand on some white pineapple was underrated

2:21

fruit I've ever had in my life. And everyone needs

2:23

to be aware of you. See, I need to check it out. Check

2:25

it out. And if you turn on Psychle one day and here is talking about

2:27

and they say Psyched the movie whatever, and

2:30

here is talking about a white pineapple, then you know where

2:32

it came from. You know what? I think you just have

2:34

to try and get ready. Um.

2:36

Something that I also need to tell you that I did mention

2:38

before is I did join a top class because you

2:41

inspired me. I think that's phenomenal. I

2:43

would love to start with tap. What drew

2:45

you to that sport? Because it is a sport.

2:48

I mean, yes, it is a look. It is a sport that

2:50

I do think. You have to be athletic in your own

2:52

way to be able to dance in general, but

2:54

especially to tap dance, just the way your body

2:56

moves and contorts to create

2:59

rhythm. For myself, I started at the

3:01

age of three, and I really was just following

3:03

the crowd because my brother and my cousins were going

3:05

to a dance school. My mom was a ballet teacher

3:08

there at the dance school. It's a school called

3:10

Marie Wildly School of Dance in eastern New

3:12

Jersey, and I went there just

3:14

to be around them as I was about the age

3:16

of three, and I was took jazz, tap in

3:18

ballet, and as I kept going,

3:21

I started to get more affinity for a

3:23

tap and then at the age of nine,

3:26

I booked this show called

3:28

The Tap Dance Kid, which was on

3:30

Broadway, and I just studied Savior and Glover on Broadway

3:33

for really about like five or six months, and

3:35

then I did the lead role on the national tour for

3:37

another year. But on the national tour

3:39

I performed with somebody by the name of Harold Nicholas,

3:42

who was of the legendary tap group the Nicholas

3:44

Brothers. They're an iconic tap duo.

3:47

And being able to see what Harold was doing day

3:49

in and day out compared to what I was doing really

3:52

inspired me to go deeper in

3:55

dance because that's I was able to see

3:57

the musicality of dance and all

3:59

of what you can do with it, I guess.

4:01

A few years later I ended up doing a show called Black

4:03

and Blue on Broadway at the same Minskoff

4:05

Theater, and you see what I'm saying,

4:08

And that was with our Bunny Briggs, Lin

4:10

Cheney, Ralph Brown, Buster Brown,

4:13

Chuck Green, Jimmy Slide. These

4:15

are all the hoover Is, the legends of legends

4:17

of tap and being around them and

4:19

really seeing what they were doing continuous had

4:21

me go deeper and deeper. And then

4:23

finally, when I was about twenty,

4:26

Savioan Glover called me to see

4:28

what I was doing. And I was a junior at cton Hall University

4:30

of New Jersey, and he needed one more

4:32

dancer for a show called Bringing Noise, Bring

4:34

the Phone, and I did that off Broadway,

4:37

and then we went to Broadway. And that's really when I started

4:39

to grasp onto tap as my own because I started

4:41

to really understand how it is music, how

4:43

it is communication, and how it is really it's

4:46

a language, and for me it started to become a

4:48

thing that was very cathartic.

4:50

I was able to deal with my emotions

4:52

and speak on things that I didn't have

4:55

the vocabulary to speak on, just by

4:57

putting it into my dance. We watched a short

4:59

film on top my class. It was amazing

5:01

and if there was a stylog just through their steps,

5:04

and I've never seen anything so just

5:06

mesmerizing like that. The reason why I think

5:08

tap is mesmerizing is because of the musicality,

5:11

because that's the only dance form

5:13

that's both a dance and music.

5:15

You know, if you hear music, it can just draw

5:18

you in the how melodic it is

5:20

and the phrasing of things,

5:22

and tap is the same way that as people

5:24

are expressing them themselves through dance

5:26

and through music, I think the music side of it really can

5:28

draw you, draw you into that way. Do you have any

5:30

other creative outlets. I've been trying

5:33

to learn how to play the piano. I've

5:36

been using this app called Simply Piano

5:38

Piano. Has it been helping very much?

5:41

I took it. I picked it up around Christmas

5:43

time. I did not know how to read music

5:45

or anything, and it has

5:47

really been helping me out. I can now

5:50

reach heat music, I can know where how to play

5:52

on the on the keys. That's huge. Yes,

5:54

it's pretty impressive. And this is not a paid endorsement

5:56

or anything. I just really picked up Sampo piano and

5:58

I love it. You know, I paid my monthly fee

6:01

every month. It's like you know, some app

6:03

costs, and uh, you learn all these songs?

6:05

What songs I've

6:08

played? What's the what's the song that that's in

6:10

my head right there? It's a song from Poor Game

6:12

Best that I I've learned how to play. I've learned how to play

6:15

the James Bond theme song. I've

6:18

learned how to play a whole bunch of like some of

6:20

a Room five song. All

6:23

these kind of like the library

6:25

of music that they have in here is pretty impressive. So

6:28

what are you working on now? What's the goal next?

6:30

Well? All right, I mean I can open up my app because

6:33

if you look at it, a simple piano right there on my is

6:36

buffering this so

6:38

I can come back to when it when it actually comes on, because

6:40

I guess the signal side here is not you

6:43

we'll come back to it. Yeah, but I

6:45

love it, so I've been doing that. And then also because

6:47

of the show that I'm on now, The Wonder Years,

6:49

Hey, I talk about it. I'm looking forward to it. But

6:52

okay, hold on, I write along

6:54

to me simply piano. It's loading, guys, I

6:57

got a feeling. Okay, see you're right

6:59

here. That's gonna be the next thing I work on set right there? How

7:02

long do you spend a week generally playing

7:04

piano when I'm working a lot,

7:06

because in between setups, we

7:09

have a piano on the set, and in between setups, I'll

7:11

go and play. And I'm filming Atlanta,

7:13

so I'm by myself. My family is still here in l

7:15

A. So I will at home at night just

7:17

to entertain myself and to learn.

7:20

I'll do that. It's a little more challenging

7:22

here to spend the time.

7:25

Yeah, I mean, I'm like I said, then be on a piano

7:27

for forty five minutes when I can spend time

7:29

hanging out with LEVI. So it's

7:32

been harder at home. It's been really hard at home

7:34

to pick up my other thing which I'm doing, which is

7:36

the saxophone. But the saxophone,

7:38

I've played saxophone when I was in middle

7:41

school. I played it for about

7:43

four years. Then I put it down for about

7:45

fifteen years, and then I did a show

7:47

off broad on Broadway in

7:50

twenty thirteen around there

7:52

called After Midnight. That was with Fantasia

7:55

Barrino. Desmond Richardson, all

7:57

these phenomenal in a cast

8:00

full of phenomenal artists in the Jazz

8:02

at Lincoln Center, all stars. So

8:04

in my mind, I'm working with these great musicians. I

8:06

might also trying to maximize the time. So I dusted

8:08

off my saxophone, and thankfully

8:11

a lot of the cats there, especially Mark Gross who's

8:13

a brilliant saxophone player. He uh,

8:16

I started teaching me how to play. So I started learning

8:18

thing, and then of course once the show

8:20

ended, I put it back down. And

8:23

then now for wonder years, my character

8:25

Bill Williams on the show, he plays the saxophone. Actually

8:28

he plays the guitar, the piano, and the saxophone.

8:30

That told Salady and Patterson, who's the show creator, that

8:33

I'm having more of an affinity for the sacks, and I

8:35

know that better, so the more we can use that, the

8:37

better. So now he's leaning more into him playing

8:39

the saxophone. And I have a teacher out there too,

8:41

who comes to the setting is uh Shepherd.

8:44

He thought there teaching me how to how to play the

8:46

sacks, and I love it. Always learning, always learning.

8:48

I think it's important to always keep learning, you

8:50

know, That's how you keep expanding in mind. That's how you keep leaning

8:52

into tomorrow, that's how you keep growing. This

8:55

years ago, I was, you know, I'm a tap dancer,

8:57

and I was talking to Jimmy Slide, who was

8:59

one of the legends of dance, and

9:01

I was always enthralled with the idea

9:04

of the journey of a hoofer, you know,

9:06

like the journey of tap dancers, and really

9:08

jumping through without going all into the whole

9:10

conversation. He's told me, you know, people

9:12

call me a tap master, but you

9:14

can never be a master of tap. Every

9:16

time I put on my shoes, I keep learning,

9:18

I keep growing. The day I put on my shoes

9:21

and I stopped learning, and I stopped growing, is it danny to take my

9:23

tap shoes off? That always stuck

9:25

with me that no matter how

9:27

good you are at something, no matter how prolific you are at something,

9:30

whether it's an art form, or whether it's

9:33

what you do with your job, or whether it's how you interact

9:35

with people, always keep leaning into it because it's always

9:37

something to learn, is always a place to grow. It really

9:40

struck me that this is somebody who had been dancing

9:42

for half a century by that point

9:45

and he was a tap master. He's

9:47

passed away now, but he was a tap master. But

9:50

in his mind, you can never master that.

9:52

You have to keep leaning into that. I just think that that's a brilliant,

9:54

agrelliant way to approach life, absolutely,

9:57

And I feel like, what's the fun of life if you're not learning

9:59

and keeping your mind open and just keep

10:01

expanding your horizons and trying

10:03

things that you can't get right

10:05

away, failing, failing

10:08

up. You're only failing if you don't get

10:10

back up. That's right, You're just trying. It's

10:13

like, come on, let me let me try to get this thing. Let me try

10:15

it again, Let me try it again, let me try it again.

10:17

It's the way that I tried to live my life. It's

10:19

a good way too. And I think you have a very unique

10:21

perspective. You've been in the business a very long time

10:23

and there are a lot of ins and outs that people

10:26

don't see. And I was wondering what the most difficult

10:28

part of the entertainment industry that you face

10:31

that isn't discussed much. I think it varies

10:33

depending on which stage of life that you are in

10:36

stage of your career. When I

10:38

first was looking to create space

10:40

for myself as an actor. That was the biggest

10:42

challenge was getting people to see me as an actor

10:44

because I started as a tap dancer mostly on

10:46

Broadway. I was doing musicals and trying

10:48

to create that space of I'm an actor. I

10:51

can do scene work. I think one

10:53

of the most flattering, our most appreciative

10:55

compliments I ever got was when Aaron Sorkin said

10:58

to casting he said, if more dancers

11:00

act like Dole, than we need to hire more dancers.

11:03

And that really was because I was fighting

11:06

so much trying to create space as an actor. It's

11:08

kind of funny because now people don't

11:10

realize always that I'm a tap dancer, because

11:12

that was like you dance. It's funny how life can

11:14

evolved that way. But when

11:17

I was younger, that was the part about

11:19

the career, just trying to create space and in

11:21

terms of trying to get people to see me as

11:23

an actor, but also trying to just create space for myself

11:25

in the business. Like I felt like I was

11:28

a good actor. I felt that I had something to offer

11:30

and getting someone to see

11:32

that, especially someone like Aaron Sorkin

11:35

and being on a show that is so

11:37

dialogue heavy and it's

11:39

you know, it's so fast paced. Was

11:42

being on that show? Do you think that helped you

11:44

um grow as an actor? Just being around

11:46

that kind of right and that kind of you

11:49

know, go go go, oh, yeah you can. You

11:51

can't be around doing the words of Aaron Sorkin

11:53

being directed by Tommy Schlami, working

11:55

with Martin Sheen and Alison Jenny, John Spencer,

11:58

Richard Schiff, Brad for you

12:01

know, Rob low Stocker chanting. I mean,

12:03

the list goes on. You can't be around that

12:06

group of creative people and not get

12:08

better. It's like if I played basketball every

12:10

day with Michael Jordan, Lebron James, Magic

12:13

Johnson and Larry Birds, you would improve

12:15

exactly. And I'm not a good basketball player, not

12:19

at all, but I wouldn't. There's no way

12:21

that I could keep playing with them for

12:23

seven years, day in day

12:25

out and not get better. I think you are known

12:27

by the company you keep, which is why I tried to always

12:29

get around people who who can inspire

12:32

me to reach reach further. Yeah, it's surrounding.

12:34

You know, you are who you surround yourself with. And when you surround

12:36

yourself with other driven people that make you want to be better,

12:38

you want to do the same same thing. You know, it's

12:40

funny to talk about the West Wing to being a tap

12:43

dance to help me understand how to

12:45

tackle the dialogue of

12:48

it's all rhythm. And

12:50

once once I got that that, it all made sense to me.

12:52

I said, Oh, this is a song. Yeah, this is

12:54

all just musicality right here. West Wing truly

12:57

is just musicality like it is so

13:00

it is so brilliant. What is the

13:02

biggest takeaway you learned from that show?

13:05

I think one. There's a few things,

13:07

so I guess it wouldn't be the biggest. It would

13:09

be a few of the big takeaways. One

13:12

was to always stay humble in the midst of what's

13:14

going on because it's not going to last forever. I

13:16

really appreciate how Martin Sheen was is

13:19

such a humble person. He's always connected

13:21

to his fellow beings. He's not a subjector

13:23

of persons, meaning he's not going to

13:25

talk to you one way because he doesn't look

13:28

at you as as being a value. Everyone

13:30

is a value involved in the creative process,

13:32

from Aaron Sorkin to a p

13:34

a who just came on set for one day.

13:37

And I was aware of that. I could

13:39

see because I very rare. It is very

13:41

rare, and I had just done a team movie before that name

13:43

She's all that. And I've seen how a lot of my peers

13:46

we're acting on the set. It was my first studio

13:49

film, and being on that set and seeing

13:51

how the egos that were there that could be amongst

13:53

a lot of a lot of people, but in that case

13:56

a lot of young people. And then to come to

13:58

the West Wing set and see how Martin, who it's

14:00

such a great, vast body of work, how

14:03

humble he was, how connected he was really

14:05

stuck with me, And for myself, I said,

14:07

that's more the path that I want to follow. That

14:10

seem that resonates more with me of appreciating

14:12

people. And I guess for myself too, because

14:14

I've been on the other side of the coin, especially

14:16

being in Noise Funk where Savian

14:19

was the you know, the big quote unquote star,

14:22

and that's that's that was my brother, my my

14:24

my man, and we would roll tight and I would go to places

14:26

with him. But because people then I recognize

14:30

me, Oh yeah, I got

14:32

the soft handshake that hey, how are you doing, brother? And moving

14:34

on, you know what I mean? And even and even

14:36

after she saw that because me and Freddie Prince are very

14:38

close and hanging out with Freddie Prince during

14:41

that time, he was Freddie Prince. Yes, I was in

14:43

the movie, but I wasn't Freddie. I

14:45

would get that same thing here in l A two

14:48

of The Brush Off. Really, it is

14:50

not until West Wing came along that people started to now

14:52

they want to be up in my face. But I

14:55

took that in of I'm still me,

14:57

and I think it's important to always engage people, no matter

15:00

who they are, where they are, you know.

15:02

So that's something that took away from it. And

15:04

then the other thing that I took

15:06

away from it, from the art, from the craftmanship

15:09

of it is to keep reaching.

15:11

It's like a theme. I keep going back to this, but

15:14

I remember, you know, the first season we got we won

15:16

Best Drama, and we're getting all these awards,

15:18

and the collective energy of the past

15:20

and the crew was let's go higher, let's go deeper,

15:23

let's not live off of our laurels of yesterday.

15:25

We had a great first season. The second season is even

15:27

harder. Let's keep digging, and that

15:30

I like, that's still how I am.

15:33

As a tap to answer on that way and as an actor on that way,

15:35

and I hope that as a person on that way where it's let's

15:37

keep going further, it is more to get you know what.

15:39

That's so funny you say that, because I

15:42

think that shows and everything you've done,

15:44

but also with Psych alone,

15:46

the movie is just keep getting better. It's

15:50

like it's the thing that it's like it just doesn't want to stop.

15:53

It just doesn't want to stop. So it's

15:56

one of those things. And I know that Psych

15:58

it's such a collective, a unit.

16:00

And so those lessons you learned from West

16:03

Wing, did that translate into that show as well? I

16:05

think so. I think, uh, I think coming

16:07

to Psych from the West Wing, it was I came to

16:09

the show now in a different position because I was more of a lead,

16:12

one of the leads of the of the show. But

16:14

Martin's energy stayed with me of

16:16

respecting everybody and this is how we're going to do it on

16:18

this set. Really it still stays with me. And he said

16:21

that I go to I try to keep that energy where

16:23

it's like, well, we're all here trying to make something,

16:25

make somethings exactly.

16:27

Let's respect everybody, Let's love everybody,

16:30

let's let's just give our best best

16:32

sells. I always say, I'm kind of going down a side

16:34

street. But if you get a group

16:36

of brilliant people together, a

16:38

group of talented people together in a

16:40

room who respect each other and give space

16:43

for each other to show their gifts,

16:45

something brilliant is bound to happen. It

16:48

will always happen. Now, mind you, that may

16:50

not always turn into this commercial success,

16:52

but it depends on how you define personal success. Well I said

16:54

commercial success. Yeah, yeah, it will

16:57

be a personal a personal success. But that's

16:59

just it's just the art world and not everything

17:01

you do with a commercial success. But if

17:03

you get people in the room and we all respect each other,

17:06

give space for each other, give space for your voice

17:08

and my voice, and hear each other, and then allow

17:11

our gifts to shine, something brilliant

17:14

is going to happen. And that's really what I

17:16

tried to bring to every set that I

17:18

come to. On the site, set was the same thing of it's

17:21

all I mean, some bits could

17:23

come up from somebody in the crew just saying that we'll

17:26

try sure, like if if it made

17:28

sense. It wasn't just the type of thing of no,

17:31

you sit there and you do your job and I'll do my job. Or

17:33

no, only Sean Spen's only James Rode

17:35

Mariguez, He's the only one that gets to be funny.

17:38

No, Tim Momson can be funny. Maggie Lawson

17:40

can be funny. I could be funny, curs to Nelson

17:42

Corporate Burnton. If it made the peace

17:44

funny, then that's what we were going to do. It wasn't about one

17:46

particular person having to get all the shine. It

17:48

seems like it's also about the process of making

17:51

and I feel like so much is focused on the end

17:53

result a lot of the time, but you know,

17:55

enjoying the actual process of being

17:57

in the moment and going off of other people's

18:00

refs, like it's the most collaborating

18:02

is I have found personally in film school

18:04

one of the most satisfying things. That's one of the parts

18:06

about this industry that I love the most is

18:09

being in this space with people and all

18:11

right, let's create. Let's see what we come up

18:13

with, and let's see if

18:15

we hit the hit the target, and if not, then

18:18

will try again. You know, if we didn't get it right this episode, we're

18:20

gonna try again next episode. If we didn't get rid of this

18:22

performance. If it's on stage, we're gonna go deeper.

18:24

Well let's try it again. Yeah. I love

18:26

the creative process. I really get off on it. And

18:28

I feel like there's something so magical

18:30

of having an idea and just seeing the process

18:33

of it coming alive. It's just

18:35

it's unlike anything I've experienced,

18:37

and I just want to continue experiencing. And

18:39

I think you should. I think you should, not think

18:41

you will. I appreciate that. I

18:43

think something that going with psych

18:46

You guys really played with format a lot, and I think

18:48

that's one of the reasons why you had different themes

18:50

from a werewolf theme to a musical theme.

18:53

You know, you redid the same episode twice,

18:56

you know, like when

18:58

you start running out of ideas, you said, you know what

19:00

was the worst episode that we did, let's redo

19:03

that one? Is that? Is that how that happened?

19:05

Because I thought Copy with the Chance of Murder

19:08

was a great episode in the first look.

19:11

It's the type of thing where the further you go along on

19:13

anything, like the songs that I could sing

19:15

now that I'm like I could sing, I could sing a lot better

19:17

now there's material

19:19

even with the West Wing. I feel like if I went back and had a chance to

19:21

do some of that material, what could I do with it now?

19:24

So I think with Psych in that episode, it was we're

19:26

just to show that swings for the fences

19:29

and does all these crazy wacky things. What's

19:31

something that you don't see on television too often? Then

19:33

redoing the same

19:37

I mean, it's so absurd when you think about it. Did

19:40

I take my hat off to even the USA,

19:42

you know, for for supporting it, because

19:45

your network and you're like, what's

19:47

just the same name? What same

19:49

thing? So it was really but that was

19:51

an episode that we didn't feel we

19:54

got right, that

19:56

we could have got done better, which I think

19:58

in general artists probably always feel that way about

20:01

work that they've done. But but the fact that you got

20:03

to actually revisit it and then redo

20:05

it. Has any other show done that before? I don't think

20:07

so obviously that's something I would be interested

20:09

to know. So if somebody's listening to this and has the time to

20:13

check all the television that has ever been done,

20:16

but it's like, you's redone the same

20:18

episode, And I think that's

20:20

what's so great about it is because

20:22

you just are so willing to try anything. You're

20:25

kind of playing with supernatural sometimes

20:27

and playing with different ideas. So when

20:29

it's like four coming out, when is the four movie coming

20:31

out? That's a good question, you know. I always say, as long

20:33

as the cycles still

20:35

wanted, then it will come. So

20:37

I'm sure that at some point there will be

20:39

another one. I just don't know when that will

20:42

be. So to all the cycles, I will say,

20:44

wait for read.

20:48

I had to do it, you know that's right? Yeah,

20:50

there we go. Was that a plan name Gusa?

20:53

Thank you? Yeah?

20:56

Yeah, you know that's right, speaking

21:00

of a player name Gus. That episode

21:03

was written by Saladin Kay Pattison,

21:05

who is the creative of the

21:07

Wonder Years. No way, and

21:09

look at that transition, right, It's

21:12

always connected your career so has so

21:15

many full circle moments there really is.

21:17

For example, Chris Henzi, who

21:19

is the one of the exact producers

21:21

of Psych. He's also Alison

21:23

Jenny's manager, so I've known

21:25

Chris Henzi from the West Wing.

21:27

That's one of that was one of the connections of going

21:30

to Psych. Also, when

21:32

I was doing Bringing Noise Brain, the Funk USA

21:34

used to have this campaign called Erase

21:37

the Hate where they would do like these

21:39

little commercials, a little interstitials

21:41

about combating hate. And the person

21:43

who was running a race to hate back in the nineties when I

21:45

was doing Bringing Noise, Bring the Funk was a lady by the

21:47

name of Bonnie Hammer who ended up

21:49

becoming the President of USA at

21:51

the time. And I mean, now she's way

21:54

up there in terms of the whole universal world,

21:56

but that was a connection there too. So then now

21:59

I go and do psych. Then you have Salady and Patterson,

22:01

who's he was one of the co exact producers and he did

22:03

that episode that you're talking about. Years later

22:05

he's doing The Wonder years and now lo and behold

22:08

here I am. So what is that like working

22:10

with the same people on different projects. I

22:12

think it's great. I love it. I think that's

22:15

there's something that that's a part of the beauty

22:17

of our being blessed to have longevity

22:20

in the industry that you keep crossing past

22:22

with people, and once you work with somebody started

22:24

having a backhand like

22:26

now we're meeting here, Now we crossed passed

22:28

again two years to years from now. It's

22:30

more like, hey, it's happening, or you know, yeah,

22:33

it's it's it's a little, it's a little more familiar, and

22:35

I think that's the beauty of being in this business.

22:38

Even as I'm thinking about a world's connecting

22:40

I did. I understudied Saving and Glover in the Tap Dance

22:43

Kid, and then when Bringing

22:45

Always came around, I work with him again. So

22:48

the I can make a direct connection

22:50

of how other steps taken to get

22:52

to where I am creatively, the

22:54

people I've crossed passed with. Okay,

22:58

so we have to take a quick break. But when we come

23:00

back, I wanted to talk about the second season of

23:02

The Wonder Years, how the essence of the show

23:04

really reflects on our culture today, a

23:06

lot more about psych and much more. We'll

23:09

be right back, and

23:16

we're back. I'm very excited

23:18

to talk about The wond Years because you said that

23:21

this show is quote it looks back

23:23

on yesterday to tell a story about who we are today,

23:25

and I'd love for you to expand on that, because I think you

23:28

said it perfectly. You know, the more things change, the more

23:30

they stay the same, And often times I think you have to

23:32

take a look back at yesterday to really engauge

23:35

where we are and how we got to where we are,

23:37

how we got to where we are and to see

23:40

it to kind of like grade yourself, because

23:42

if I'm just living in a vacuum, then it's like, oh, yeah, I'm doing

23:44

great whatever. But it's when it's only

23:46

when you have in comparison to something you can realize

23:49

either we've made a lot of change or we have not made

23:51

a lot of change. You can see how certain things

23:53

are. Yeah, we've moved forward from from

23:56

that some ways, not so much, not

23:58

so much, and recognizing that as so, because

24:00

that's the only way to move forward exactly. And that's

24:02

really that's really what I love about

24:04

this show is that it's a based in the sixties, based

24:06

in the sixties about a black family

24:09

in Alabama, and in the midst

24:11

of all the trouble of the time, the turbulence

24:13

of the time, the challenges of the time, they're

24:15

able to create their very own wonder years and

24:17

it's filled with love and laughter and heart.

24:20

It's a good growing up story. I think it's a great growing

24:22

up story, and I feel that it's

24:26

something I appreciate having that on the

24:28

air now. I

24:30

completely agree, coming in, week in,

24:32

week out into our homes. There's not many

24:34

things on television where families can sit down and watch it

24:37

together. Psych I feel like it was one of those uh

24:40

and this show I appreciate because

24:42

the lens that is looking through grounds the show

24:45

a little bit more so it still is dealing

24:47

with the world around us, but it also is bringing a lot

24:49

of humor and levity as well. What

24:51

is it like playing a dad? You

24:54

know, it's funny he's back. It's kind

24:56

of like a time warp, Like, wait, wasn't

24:59

it just in the tap? And

25:02

it's strange because like on The West Wing, I was I

25:05

was a young cat. Even on Psyche,

25:07

we all appears so we're all just

25:09

people doing the work. And then I get on Wonder Years and people

25:11

are talking about how they went around when the first

25:13

one of the Years came on, you

25:16

know, you know, and E. J. Williams is saying, you know, do

25:19

you know he's been around for so long. He's been in this game, for this

25:21

business for so long. It's really cool to work with someone like

25:23

I'm like, wait, what I've been about here for

25:25

so long? What are you talking about? Young man? Me

25:27

and you the same age. I'm

25:29

a kid. You understand because

25:31

I have a beard and I have some grades doesn't mean that I went out

25:33

the same age, right,

25:37

But you know, at first he gets

25:39

a little shocking of way it's like I'm playing a dad

25:41

now. But then right on the heels of that, you

25:43

appreciate it because again going back to what I was

25:45

saying before about even the wonder years, when you put

25:47

it in perspective of everything else,

25:50

that means do let you've been on this journey

25:52

for a long time. You've had the opportunity to do it for a long

25:55

time, to do what you love for a long time. You've been

25:57

blessed to really create space

25:59

for yoursel as a creative individual from the age

26:01

of ten till now. That's that's a huge

26:04

blessing. So just take it in the fact that you can play

26:06

a dad on television now is a wonderful thing.

26:09

Do you have to change your mindset like when going

26:11

about the acting process, Uh, be

26:13

more affirmative at all. I don't think so. I think

26:16

each character is different. I think the

26:18

process is always relatively the same.

26:20

It just depends on who the character is. What

26:22

is the process generally? I mean, for me,

26:25

I wonder, how how does this person talk, how

26:27

do they walk? What is their world view? Like?

26:29

How do they what is the lands that

26:31

they look through? I asked myself

26:33

questions about how do they feel about those who

26:36

they are around? How do they feel about the world beyond

26:38

them? These are questions that I kind of asked myself no

26:40

matter which character that I'm playing, but

26:42

I feel Charlie Young walks

26:44

differently than Burton Guster, works differently,

26:49

not at all, walks differently from Bill

26:51

Williams. I think who also? You know, I played a character on

26:54

Suits that person walked differently. Alex

26:56

Williams, his energy is different.

26:58

How do you how do you channel of those energies. It's

27:00

funny because I don't. It's very hard for me to put it

27:03

in words. I've realized that over the years

27:05

that it's hard for me to actually put in words

27:07

the process. It's like jazz, it's like music.

27:09

It just yeah, I just let it. I

27:12

fill it out. Then, years ago, I did at William

27:14

Esper Studios, which is where I did my acting

27:16

classes in New York. I studied with Bill Esper.

27:18

You know a lot of times through the process you would

27:20

work from the inside out. But then for

27:23

some of the work that we did there,

27:25

we put on these masks and

27:27

then you would pick a mask, put on the mask, and

27:30

then you work from the outside in. So if the

27:32

mask is a happy mask, if we start to affect

27:34

how this person moves, and

27:36

it starts to teach me that all these things come together,

27:39

you do the homework at home with the inside out. But then also

27:41

the clothes that I put on, the shoes that I put

27:43

on. If it's if I'm in slides,

27:46

is different from if I'm in shoes. It's

27:48

different than if I made some platform shoes.

27:51

That that says a lot about the person. The

27:53

kind of shoes that they wear. There's a lot about the person that kind of

27:55

clothes that they wear. Do you ever feel limited

27:57

in what you wear? Not because you're like, oh that reminds me of that character,

28:00

you mean personally or as I going to the new personally? Oh

28:03

no, No, At anytime that I'm allowed to something

28:05

can make it from their closet to my closet. I'll

28:07

take it that way.

28:09

Do it. Do it? You know, I

28:12

can either confirm nor deny whether

28:14

I have anything from any of

28:16

my characters over the years. I cannot. They may

28:18

look similar, but they may not necessarily be the exact

28:21

thing. No, I may have just copied

28:23

and pasted it. I may

28:25

have just found out. I found out where was purchased

28:27

from and from the manufacturer of

28:29

course, exactly anything you absolutely

28:32

didn't take from any show anything, I absolutely

28:35

didn't take it. But you know, like I mean,

28:37

let me see, I didn't take a piece

28:39

of the wheel from the

28:41

Blueberry. I did not. It's

28:43

like a piece of the rim. It

28:46

blew up, well right now, I haven't, haven't. It's

28:48

like storage being that has like a whole bunch of that

28:50

stuff in there. I did not take the

28:53

nameplate from Burton Guster's

28:55

desk. Never, No, never. I

28:58

did not take the sign outside

29:01

of Charlie Young's office that said Deputy

29:03

Special Assistant to the Chief of Staff. No,

29:06

I did not take that. I should have taken

29:08

the one that said Charlie

29:10

Young Personal Aide to the President. I wasn't

29:12

thinking at the time, and I

29:14

did not take. If those who who

29:17

watch The West Wing the last episode of

29:19

the series, Martin Sheen are President,

29:21

probably gives Charlie Young a copy

29:23

of the Constitution, it's a little red book.

29:26

I did not take that. Why would you ever take That's

29:28

not sentimental at all. I don't have that. So if

29:31

people are looking for. I don't know where it is. I

29:33

don't have. I don't have that. Well, you know, I can

29:35

either confirm nor there

29:38

exactly. I'm trying to think from suits?

29:41

Yeah, do you take anything from suits? Did

29:43

I have anything from suits? Let me think about it. No

29:46

ties, no suits, not from the I

29:49

don't think I have. I think I took some of this. Confirm

29:52

nor din I you know, especially if Aaron Corsh is

29:54

listening to this right now, I don't know Eron. I don't know if I've taken

29:56

anything from that. I've never taken any

29:59

suit. You know. The anything about suits is

30:01

when I was when I was going to Seton Hall. Growing

30:04

up, my intention was to be a corporate lawyer. I planned

30:06

to go off to law school, and then around my junior

30:08

year, when I was doing those phone on Bradway, I really started

30:10

to ask myself, what is it that I want to do with my life.

30:12

But I want to go into the corporate world and be a corporate lawyer,

30:15

or don't want to continue assuming the arts. I

30:17

eventually decided to pursue the arts because I realized that that's

30:20

what I had an affinity for, but also

30:22

at the time I said to myself, I don't

30:25

want to wear a suit to work every day. I

30:27

want to go and be creative, like do that thing. I don't want

30:29

to wear a suit to work every day. Then my first

30:31

TV show is The West Wing, which

30:34

I would have to wear suits every day every

30:36

day, you know. And then of course Psych I had to wear

30:38

suits on that show as well. And

30:40

then not only that, but then afterwards

30:43

I get a show called Suits where

30:45

I plays you know, where I wear suits every

30:47

day and I'm a

30:49

corporate lawyer. You've

30:53

lived every You've lived it out vicariously,

30:57

I did. I ended up achieving both goals

31:00

and I was an actor and I was a corporate lawyer exactly.

31:02

You know what I mean. You've accomplished at all.

31:05

What was it like working with your wife in Psych?

31:07

Great? I love working with Jasmine. We have a good time.

31:10

It's great to just be creative in

31:13

that space. Having to join the psych world was

31:15

a lot of fun because I think it's a I appreciate

31:17

the love that the psychles have given over the years, the

31:19

support and being that Jasmine was such

31:21

a bussing to me in my life personally. I

31:23

was glad to be able to then to a certain cent

31:26

share our dynamic in a different

31:28

way with with with the psych world, with

31:30

the psychles. Yeah. So I was great working with

31:32

her and she especially She's just it

31:35

was so much fun with the ball of energy

31:37

coming into the so true and something

31:39

that if the Psych movie doesn't come out anytime soon,

31:41

I think we just need the unedited of the birth

31:43

scene of the last how many that

31:47

I think we all need. That was a lot going

31:49

on. Boy, how long did that take? Shot?

31:51

In? Two days? The one incause

31:54

it was a long scene. It's a really long scene

31:56

and I don't think there was any real plan about how we were

31:58

going to attack it. So we got there and we're like okay,

32:00

and then we figured it out and he just kept chipping

32:02

away it. It was a lot of heavy breathing by using

32:06

a lot of crying by my part. You

32:08

know, you've had to do a lot of screams. Oh

32:11

yeah, here's Lassie. Oh yeah. Oh.

32:13

I think I think that was really just if I'm

32:15

not mistaken, did d write that episode? I

32:17

believe he. I believe he wrote directed

32:20

and I don't think maybe directed

32:22

it. I think it was really just a thing of how

32:24

can we get do lated scream. Here's

32:27

an idea, here's

32:30

Lassie. That was a lot of screaming

32:32

in that one. That's a terrifying episode. That was

32:34

a lot of screaming. And Tim Thomason was so great

32:37

in that episode. He really dove right

32:39

into being a different kind of Psycho.

32:43

Okay, we have to take one more quick break, but when

32:46

we come back, I want to talk about the second Psycho

32:48

movie and actually get your thoughts on a very

32:50

special story Joel McKell shared with me when

32:52

he was on the podcast recently. That kind

32:55

a whole lot more right after this and

33:02

we're back. So Joel

33:04

McHale was on the podcast and

33:06

he was telling we're talking about Psych. I just saw

33:09

Joe mckelly other day. Yeah,

33:11

if you go onna maybe Tim's

33:13

Instagram or uh he was.

33:16

We had like a birthday at Tim's

33:18

house the other day. Oh good. He

33:20

was just on the podcast and he was telling me the whole

33:22

story about the movie, um,

33:25

the second movie, UM. And I think

33:27

it is so amazing how Psych

33:30

and the family just comes together every time

33:32

just to support each other and to be there for each

33:34

other. I know that movie was especially

33:37

very emotional to make because it

33:39

was we didn't know if you would be able to make

33:41

it again. What was the process like of

33:43

when that movie got green light and you guys could

33:46

go into production. I think more. I think less

33:48

about when it got green light and more when

33:51

Tim walked on set. That

33:54

was really the touching moment because with

33:56

the first Psyche movie, it really

33:58

was a whirlwind that just happened. The ground shifted

34:01

me. It was that was something so far off of our

34:03

radar what we thought. Did you never even

34:06

think of doing a movie after the show ended? Or

34:08

was it just like, we're gonna let it be and see what happened.

34:10

Chris mccamber who was the president of USA

34:12

at the time, he said when the show

34:14

was wrapping up that he's fairly confident

34:17

this is not the last we'll see of Seawan and Gus now,

34:19

mind you, you hear that often, so

34:22

for it to actually come into fruition was pretty

34:24

surprising and welcomed. But

34:27

then when Tim had his joke that

34:29

really really shook

34:31

us. We powered through. We're

34:33

able to do the first Psyche movie,

34:36

but it wasn't the same because we knew

34:38

that Tim wasn't on set with us. It's a part

34:40

of your family, not there exactly. So when

34:43

when we were able to now do the second one and to see

34:46

Tim walk on set, it was I

34:49

just don't have the words to say how

34:51

touching it was, how inspiring it

34:53

was, because Tim had really just

34:56

leaned into what he was facing and

35:00

kept putting one foot in front of the other slowly

35:03

and surely, and he really willed himself

35:05

back to the set and to

35:07

see his strength in the midst of that challenge

35:10

was inspiring and still is inspiring because he

35:13

just keeps getting better and better. Uh

35:15

So seeing him on that set was was just it

35:17

was great. And then even Joel coming up to do it was was

35:20

pretty phenomenal to him. We we actually did

35:22

not you know, Tim Mombinson and Joe mckill are

35:24

pretty tight. We did

35:27

not tell Tim who was playing his father. We

35:29

had like some weird name. I forgot the name that was on

35:32

the call sheet. We put some weird name on It

35:34

should have been one of the names that I'm

35:36

James Rude would call us like it

35:38

was something. It was something like that. It was something, And

35:40

of course Tim wants to know because any actor would

35:43

want to know who's playing my dad, and it's

35:45

a great actor he's known. You know, he's hearing

35:47

from Vancouver, this and

35:49

that, and he's a theater actor here and he's really

35:52

great. Was like, huh, then,

35:55

uh, I can't

35:57

remember exactly how now I'm trying to remember which

35:59

some he was here to route. I think he came on that

36:02

what happened? Okay, So then it was then when

36:04

he went on in the rehearsal in his

36:06

room on the on the set, and

36:09

then all of a sudden, Joe comes walking on and then

36:11

Tim was really just blown away to see

36:13

his his friend coming to play his dad. This industry

36:16

is there's a lot of challenging things that happened in

36:18

his industry, but there's also it's also a

36:20

really good community of people who love and support

36:22

each other. At least along my journey,

36:25

I've been blessed to work with the community people who love and support

36:27

each other. And when you can find those type of

36:29

relationships, it really is a wonderful

36:31

thing. Having Joe come up, I

36:33

mean, yeah, I'm sure he was a fan of the show and he liked

36:35

working with us, but really he came up for Tim

36:39

and that's lovely. That's lovely to see

36:41

those relationships that can grow out of being

36:43

creative, out of playing make

36:46

believe for a living. I mean, look at you and James

36:48

your day. Yeah, I mean he's one of my best friends

36:50

and I have a lot of love for real day. He

36:52

was one of my groovesmen that my

36:54

wedding or an outwarding. Uh.

36:57

You know when I first met Roald Day, I'll

36:59

never forget when I first was reading, doing chemistry

37:02

read with him. Oh I wish that was on

37:04

the video, you know what I mean, probably

37:06

you're probably looking at my face that if

37:08

there was on video, my face would be look at him like what are

37:10

you doing? Because I came from the world

37:12

of Aaron Sorkin, where you say the words, the

37:15

words are written, that's what you say.

37:18

They've been crafted, they've been like

37:22

you say the words. And I getting here in this

37:24

room and this cat is all over the place, he's bouncing

37:26

off the walls, and I'm like, he already had the

37:28

job. So my line, I'm like, what are you doing? Like do

37:31

you have a friend that you want to get in this role? Like

37:34

what's happening? Uh? So

37:36

to see where that has gone. That was in two thousand six

37:39

and now you're talking about I

37:41

never would have thought in that moment that sixteen

37:43

years later we still would be friends,

37:46

and we would be even closer friends, and he would be really

37:48

like family, like a brother to me at this point. But

37:50

again, that's just all comes from playing in the place of make

37:53

believe, where it's at. That's all

37:55

we that's all we're doing. I'm like, that's often times

37:57

on sets, I'm just like everybody calmed down, relaxed,

38:00

relaxed. We're just playing make believe here, That's

38:02

all we're doing. That's all we're doing. Guys. It's like,

38:05

I don't ever let anybody ever tell you anything different.

38:07

Yes, the work you do inspires

38:09

people. Yes, the work you do can affect change, and this is

38:11

that. Or we're playing make

38:13

believe because you're not really so and so

38:16

like I'm not really Guss, I'm Dula putting on these

38:18

clothes and playing not really Bill,

38:21

not really exactly, not really in the

38:23

same way my son right now says, I'm pretending that that's

38:26

all we're doing. And some do it better

38:28

than others, some have opportunities to do it more

38:31

than others. But even Pacino is

38:33

playing make believe. We're just playing.

38:37

Yeah, and I can and that's awesome, and I feel

38:39

like it is awesome. I feel like now you need

38:41

it now more than ever. Telling stories

38:44

is the most powerful thing. And I also feel like through

38:47

the storytellings you can tell so much. But it is just

38:49

make yes, and it's something. That's what I

38:51

was going to say, is there's things that you can, you know, I grasp

38:53

from playing, from playing Make Believe

38:55

or from seeing somebody else play Make Believe.

38:58

There's things you can learn about yourself, things you can learn them off

39:00

the world, things that can inspire you to go and

39:02

effect change in the real world. But

39:05

at the core of it, we still are

39:07

playing making That's just so

39:09

I always try to remind people of it. It's

39:11

a good reminder. And so Season

39:14

two of The Wonder Years is coming out, which

39:16

is so exciting. I'm very excited

39:18

to share this world with with our

39:21

audience. It's gonna be a lot of fun. We're gonna have a lot of fun

39:23

guest stars, and I think there'll be a lot

39:25

of laughs to be had. I'm excited. And what's

39:27

next for do La Hill? Anything you can say,

39:30

any manifestations you want to put out, you

39:32

know, it would be interesting to see. It's a time

39:35

of transition. You know, our

39:37

daughter Kennedy has gone off to Northwestern,

39:40

so she's there doing her volleyball thing.

39:42

And that is very surreal because

39:45

just a few months ago she was at home in

39:47

high school and the other day I turned on ESPN

39:49

Plus and there she was playing, and she's like a person

39:51

playing do you Want? That's

39:54

been the thing that most every I think has boggled

39:57

my mind of this is crazy, like how quickly things

39:59

can change involved Levi is growing up

40:01

so wonderfully, and it's a time of transition. So I really

40:03

don't know exactly what is next. I know what's next

40:05

is I'm gonna go and knock out this season of the show,

40:08

but it can I always stay open to what's

40:10

next. Speaking of what's next, that's like what President

40:12

Brightly always say, what's next. That's something

40:14

that stays with me because I'm always

40:16

open to what is next any personal projects.

40:20

For personal projects, I want to keep learning

40:22

the piano. I'm gonna keep learning the sacks. I

40:25

have a goal of playing the saxophone

40:27

on air because then when now when

40:30

I play on the show, I got the keys

40:32

right, but someone else's I

40:36

want them to record it live. One time on

40:38

the set so that I could say, no, that was me

40:40

playing that. So that's a little personal

40:43

goal that I have just keep to

40:45

keep learning and growing

40:47

in my art forms. I want to dance more.

40:50

I want to play the piano more. I want to play the

40:52

sacks more. I want to sing more. I want

40:54

to continue to act. I just I'm gonna feed

40:56

like so more seed into being

40:58

creative and just trying to be

41:01

better. Better, be

41:03

a better being, be a better husband,

41:06

be a better father, and be a better man. But

41:08

also give myself the space

41:10

and the grace to know that it's a process. Yeah,

41:13

I've been following. My friend told me about the one percent

41:15

rule, which is to do something

41:17

to make yourself one percent better than

41:20

you were yesterday in one aspect of your life. I love

41:22

it. So, whether that's sending an email

41:24

or doing a yoga class or making a like whatever,

41:26

it is doing something one thing a day because

41:29

one percent. And I've been doing it. I know it's a huge difference,

41:31

but it's I think. I love I love that idea.

41:34

One thing that I've tried to do and I'm still working on

41:36

it is to respond to email within twenty

41:38

four hours. My wife's best friend,

41:40

Jocelyn. That's like something she does. Within

41:43

twenty four she respawns back to

41:45

impressive. And I'm trying to that's

41:48

like my little focus because I'm not the

41:50

best at it. I'm not the best. It's hard. You

41:52

have to, like dear so and so trying

41:56

to play this piano, my simply piano,

41:58

simply piano from on five, you

42:03

know. But that's something that I'm working

42:06

on, and I'm I'm working on being on time.

42:08

I was on time to what

42:12

I'm saying, and most

42:14

time with l A traffic, you

42:17

know, sometimes i'm set, I'm in like a five

42:19

or seven minute grace period. I'm always on time to

42:21

set. I'm not always on

42:23

time to the greater set, but

42:26

when it's time to roll, ready

42:28

to roll, I'm ready to roll. Yeah, there's

42:30

a few times, I won't say very few. Casality's probably

42:32

gonna hear that and be like very few times, but

42:35

just a few times that they're actually waiting for

42:37

me on set. But I can

42:39

be late to work or late

42:42

to an appointment if I'm working on

42:44

that. Ye're human, you know, But

42:46

I also don't like people to be late when it when

42:49

it's for me. So that's

42:51

the hypocrisy of my life. Everybody, but you know what, we

42:53

all have it well. Juli,

42:56

thank you so much for taking the time out of your day

42:58

to call my podcast, this conversation and truly just

43:00

made my week. I'm so excited to watch

43:02

The Wonder Years season two and

43:05

see what else is to come, and that hopefully

43:07

to see you play the saxophone live on as

43:10

it's coming the time. Right now, We've had a great conversation

43:12

and I look forward to slicing his pineapple up

43:14

for the road.