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big money and the nuts. There's

1:13

no place to escape, too. This is the last

1:15

task on the left. That's

1:20

when the cannibalism started. What

1:23

was that? I

1:30

just could clean the floor and stuff, but I need to fucking

1:33

No. You don't. You just b you, Matthew. mean me,

1:35

man. B you, bro. That's

1:37

been everything I think that's what every series

1:40

we've ever done. That's really what's

1:42

ever been about. Is this b u bro? B

1:44

u bro? B u, dude. Because

1:46

what, man. Guess who doesn't Guess what the other guy gets

1:48

to do? What? Be them. Oh.

1:50

Can't be you. The only person's gonna be you

1:53

is you except for me. I'm many.

1:55

You're an actor. I'm an actor. There's a

1:57

man of many voices that all sounds you're making

1:59

at some point. At some point only because

2:01

as we now know, as I have discovered, which

2:03

one day linguistic experts will

2:06

say, they will understand that the base of every

2:08

single speaking accent Is Jamaican?

2:10

Oh, fantastic. There we go. And are you

2:12

many or are you truly none?

2:15

I'm truly none. Yes. You're truly a

2:17

bitch. You're waiting to be filled with another a

2:19

personality.

2:19

I am zero. Right. Today, technically,

2:22

I'm trucked eatery.

2:23

I'm trucked eatery. My name. Right?

2:25

So begin. Henry's gone. Yeah. Right?

2:27

That's why I'm in hervious to any

2:30

form of crime or being accused of a

2:32

crime. Because anytime you -- Right. -- put

2:34

that on me. I mean, like, who's the who are you talking

2:36

about? That was mister

2:38

Benjamin. Right? I'm assuming

2:40

magical heart happened after

2:42

who happened to maybe not fill out all the

2:44

former source taxes that you should have been, but that

2:46

And that was that guy doing it. And when you

2:49

get to

2:49

prison, of course, you'll be the sexiest little mushroom

2:51

boy around.

2:52

Well, the last podcast on the left, everyone.

2:55

We are on to the troubled teen industry

2:58

part two specifically focusing on,

3:01

Synanon. Cinema. Before

3:04

there was queuing on, there was

3:05

Synanon. as we said

3:07

last episode, the troubled teen industry certainly

3:10

had spiritual precedents in America

3:12

such as the American Indian boarding schools that

3:14

operated until the late nineteen sixty. 518

3:17

when it comes to direct inspiration,

3:19

no organization was more influential

3:22

than

3:22

Synanon. And can you believe it

3:24

was created? By a three hundred

3:27

pound bag of miyuki with

3:29

half a missing face, who

3:31

somehow like, while being

3:33

a a true villain, of American

3:35

history -- Yeah. -- is also one of the funniest

3:38

guys you'll ever meet. Well, that's good. I'm happy.

3:40

He's fat and funny because fat and disgruntled,

3:42

Michael Moore, Rob Reiner, it's

3:44

a bad ad look. Rob Reiner. I've been like,

3:47

no no one choose smoke. I was just watching

3:49

the South Park episode where they made fun of Rob

3:51

Reiner. So, basically, they'll just up your

3:52

face. That's so weird. Into a written

3:54

statement. Really good. Really good. See, while the

3:56

physical tortures inflicted on teenagers

3:59

like spankings, solitary

4:01

confinement, and beatings. They can be thought

4:03

up by any regular old joke. No,

4:04

man. I spanked myself today.

4:06

Yeah. I know you did. I've seen the twitchy footage.

4:09

The thing about salitary. The thing

4:12

about really suffering with torture,

4:14

you can't flip it and reverse it. Yeah. The

4:16

spanking you can get hard. And that's the

4:18

spanking you can really be, like, one more, Daddy.

4:20

Yeah. So we'll be like, oh, let's not do it, but solitary.

4:23

You really can't pretend to like

4:24

it. I love this. I love

4:26

being alone alone. That only can last

4:28

for

4:28

so long. Well, they can also they can just leave the

4:30

room. Yep. And then you're just screaming it yourself.

4:33

Yeah. Guess what? When it's your loan with yourself, I

4:35

should know very

4:35

well. Everything stops me and entertaining. Well,

4:39

while any regular old joke can do physical torture,

4:41

the psychological techniques used

4:43

to pound these teens into square pegs,

4:46

they were adapted from a complicated method

4:48

of attack therapy created

4:50

by Synanon called The

4:53

Game. I've seen some YouTube footage and

4:55

Stephen SeGull also does attack therapy.

4:57

He does. 518 he always used this tiny

4:59

little, like, this little flipper baby arms, and then

5:01

he can always defend himself a little 518. But but

5:03

but but but but but but but but but but but but but but but but 518 today's episode

5:05

is really kind of again, the origins of

5:07

what we just kind of touched on in the

5:09

first episode and kind of wear it all in.

5:12

Because this is again, it's not send it

5:14

on series. It's a troubled teen industry series

5:16

-- Right. -- but then ah, sit it on. There's

5:18

lots on pack here. Yeah. There was a ten episode

5:20

podcast just about sitting on done by Robert

5:23

Downey

5:23

Jr. Is that right? You say by

5:25

Robert Downey Jr. What do you mean by? He

5:27

wasn't in an office and the same

5:30

time when people under his

5:32

name made a podcast about

5:33

it. Gotcha. So he showed up. Are you

5:35

sure he showed up? I'm certain that he

5:37

was told at some point that he was

5:39

doing that. But then when it came

5:41

down to it, he's still begging to beat Tony

5:43

Stark again. I would believe Robert Dunney Junior,

5:46

he grew up trouble teen industry that

5:48

is highly weird. Yep. He was addicted

5:50

to drugs. His father had him doing cocaine at like

5:52

twelve. So I actually think he might be a proper

5:54

voice in this. Now he's totally sobering his

5:56

wife saves his life.

5:57

Yeah. That's what yeah. actually like Robert Dunning.

5:59

I do too. I but that letterman interview he

6:01

did was actually very powerful. Powerful. Unfortunately,

6:04

the people who founded and ran these troubled

6:07

teen programs that took inspiration from

6:09

they were mostly sociopaths. Ergo,

6:12

they simplified Synanon game

6:14

to such a degree that this well meaning

6:17

method for kicking addiction became

6:19

the worst psychological torture

6:21

of

6:21

all. That's what's fun about an effective

6:23

tool is that it's like a shovel. Right?

6:25

Mhmm. You can dig a a

6:27

trench. Right? But it became used feed

6:29

children. You get filled with sloppens or children will

6:31

eat it. I get one off the water, maybe one

6:34

off the water, maybe one off the water. At the same

6:36

time, that that same trench, you can then push

6:38

the kids into the

6:39

slop. Now it's grave.

6:41

Great. But before we

6:43

get into --

6:44

Very good. good. Very good. -- great. I

6:46

love it. Yeah. It's a either get from sloth sloth

6:48

bucket to grave. Yep.

6:49

Yeah. That's simple. All takes us up. Here

6:51

you go.

6:52

Well, here you

6:52

go. It's a main you can make any hole

6:54

in gray if this makes sense. 518

6:57

before we get into exactly what the

6:59

game was, Let's talk about

7:01

who created the game and where it was

7:03

practiced. That was a drug rehab

7:06

turned cult called Synanon.

7:08

For this episode, our main source is

7:10

the rise and fall of by

7:12

Rod Jansen, while some argue that

7:14

it's too soft on centered on. Mhmm. It seems

7:17

to be the most fair and balanced history of

7:19

this fascinating organization

7:21

right up to their dissolution following a

7:23

bungled and bizarre attempted murder.

7:25

And if you do want even more information,

7:27

there's a lot of it out there. Obviously, it brought up

7:30

that podcast, but also there is the website,

7:32

paul morantz dot com, that comes from

7:34

perspective of a person that very distinctly

7:37

has a bone to pick. Listen

7:39

on, and you'll see why as we get

7:41

through this episode. But his is really

7:43

him. He basically he's like, the rise

7:45

and fall of sitting on doesn't understand the

7:47

degrees of violence that we all suffered, but

7:49

we'll see. Yeah. I mean, it really is

7:51

a perfect crop

7:54

to pick from when it comes to Synanon on

7:56

former drug addicts or people dealing with drug

7:58

addiction. Oh, yeah. You know, they're looking for help

8:01

then, obviously, they're gonna be in massive peril when

8:03

they go through withdrawals and stuff.

8:04

Yes. I mean,

8:04

now we get to experiment on you. We took you at

8:07

your most babyish form when you were literally

8:09

-- -- dying like you were

8:11

super sick from a drug. And then we,

8:13

like, took that dismantled personality of

8:15

someone getting over drugs and now we're gonna rebuild

8:17

you in our way. Which is a yellow screaming

8:20

AAAA yelling

8:22

screaming soldier for a man for with

8:25

half a

8:25

face. That's why I'm gonna start a new company ice cream

8:27

for diabetics.

8:29

They needed to live.

8:30

There is that. Oh. Well, concerning

8:32

that attempted murder, we also used an article

8:34

about published in twenty eighteen in

8:36

Los Angeles Magazine by Halell

8:39

Aaron, which nicely covers the incident that

8:41

led to the downfall of the largest cult

8:44

you've never heard of. Synanon

8:46

was originally established as a sincere

8:49

drug rehabilitation program in the nineteen

8:51

fifties that became a full fledged

8:53

cult by nineteen seventy

8:54

five. With the drugs in the nineteen fifties, wizards,

8:57

zappers, poppers, man, heroin. Heroin.

8:59

Heroin. Heroin. Heroin.

9:01

I see. I love the fight now. Because

9:03

it seems like the heroin there was like

9:05

real good --

9:06

Yeah. -- in the fifties.

9:07

Really? Yeah. It's Charlie Parker heroin. It's

9:10

good. Shit.

9:10

Wow. Okay. CIA heroin. Yeah.

9:13

Yep. Well, no. Well, I'd

9:15

say I would

9:15

say later heroin is more CIA here.

9:17

yeah. That's when they started, like and then, you know, they

9:19

invented a crack, which must have been a fun afternoon.

9:21

And then, like, that that's a whole

9:23

Oh, there's like mobster heroin.

9:25

Okay. Yeah. A build

9:27

as a community striving for a creative

9:30

and effective approach to drug rehabilitation. Synanon

9:32

was not the first drug rehab center,

9:34

but it was among the first to be taken serious

9:37

See, prior to the fifties, people with drug addiction

9:40

problems with substances like heroin,

9:42

they were either thrown in jail or mental

9:44

institutions without even an attempted

9:46

treatment. Because the word treatment concerning

9:48

addiction wasn't even in the lexicon. Usually,

9:51

the addicts caught in a cycle which shuttle

9:54

in and out of these institutions until

9:56

they died from their addiction or diseases

9:58

of

9:58

poverty, while the general public sorta just

10:00

shrugged and said, why are you gonna do?

10:02

Well, because again, it was a a problem

10:04

that was kind of like knew when it even

10:06

though it was hit. No. It was it was an interesting

10:09

way to kind of like

10:10

we're looking at it for the first time. We're really

10:13

now as a society, all, like, kinda

10:15

seeing, like, hey, it seems like a lot of

10:17

people like hair

10:17

only. Well, I

10:18

mean, I think they missed a massive opportunity to

10:20

give them a guitar, give them one of those little

10:22

drums with the sticks that have, like, the little things

10:26

Oh, you try it again. Jazz.

10:27

Jazz is it? Was it different than ours? Jazz is

10:30

They're my brushsticks. Yeah. Prussing. About

10:33

the notes you don't play. Yeah. It should really

10:35

happen. You know, jazz drumming should make all

10:37

the hair on your neck stand

10:38

up. 518 when became

10:41

popular and once people saw that it got

10:43

results, people began to believe that

10:45

addicts didn't have to die in streets like

10:47

dogs. Well, On the contrary,

10:49

they could be rehabilitated and live normal

10:51

lives under the right circumstances, and

10:54

provided the framework for those circumstances

10:57

by inventing a culture of recovery.

10:59

Specifically, Synanon pioneered the idea

11:01

of the ex addict turned drug

11:04

counts. Learn. Okay. And as a result,

11:06

graduates of the Synanon ex

11:08

addicts all, opened their own successful

11:11

treatment centers in San Francisco go

11:13

Tucson, Manhattan, and Queens. I just

11:15

really hope they don't try this same thing with pedophiles.

11:17

Right. You know, they always go lead to a lot

11:19

of horror. Unless you could teach

11:22

the pedophiles to be attracted to

11:24

other pedophiles. Right. Like, you get a

11:26

a super sexy pedophile in there

11:28

amongst the other other

11:29

senators. I've seen

11:30

Chris Hanson,

11:31

they're always super sexy when they come through

11:33

the door. Yeah. Well,

11:34

that's why

11:34

there's there's like a kinda like a like

11:36

a r Cali. Technically, the handsome

11:38

title. Perfect. Okay. Sure. So you get

11:40

him in there. Right? He gets them all laddered

11:43

up and shit. Right. Maybe then they can also fall in

11:45

love with each other. Be like, imagine I have a big

11:47

lollipop. Imagine I'm much smaller.

11:49

Right. Right?

11:51

I feel like you're really odd to something. Yeah.

11:53

So your your idea is to treat

11:55

pedophiles with the magic

11:57

of imagination?

11:58

Yes. Wow. You mean the power of theater,

12:01

which is why and when I do my all pedophile

12:03

Titus centronica, all of

12:05

the LA's fine art community will

12:08

arrive to see my work. Just

12:10

one lonely person clapping in the back, and that

12:12

indeed is. Rob Reiner.

12:15

Synanon was actually founded right

12:17

here in the Greater Los Angeles area

12:19

out in Santa Monica. By a man

12:21

named Chuck Dietrich who

12:23

actually coined the

12:25

phrase. Today is the

12:26

first deal with your wife. Wow.

12:29

You never realized that someone had to say that

12:31

first. Yeah. That

12:31

was a Synanon phrase.

12:33

Wow. Yeah. So what's tomorrow? The

12:35

second day of the rest of your fucking life you moron.

12:37

Whatever it is, it's the second day of your

12:39

life. Second day's first

12:40

loser, but if you We're

12:43

not playing Mario Kart.

12:45

Well, Chuck Dedrick was a gold ball.

12:47

Doesn't even make sense.

12:50

Second day's first loser, man. Yeah. You nailed

12:52

it. Really good. 518 Chuck

12:54

Dedrick was a gulf oil sales executive

12:56

from Toledo, Ohio, who

12:58

was a self admitted alcoholic for

13:00

twenty years. His drinking problem

13:03

was blamed on a bout of meningitis that

13:05

required a mastoidectomy

13:07

that caved in the right side of his face. What's

13:09

the say? I got a phantom control. My

13:11

problem is is every time I try to

13:13

drink, I just imagine, oh, yeah. I didn't

13:16

think I got a film off turns out. It's not

13:18

there, so now I'm drinking double.

13:20

Whoa. Was part of his

13:22

brain gone? No. Part of his skull. Just

13:24

part of his skull.

13:24

Yeah. The I think I've masteredectomy. I

13:27

looked it up like I think They just kinda

13:29

pull out part of your

13:30

skull. It's all extended. Meningitis, yeah,

13:32

they just kinda scoop it out and because they

13:34

scoop it out like half your face flat because it didn't

13:36

have any darn He's getting behind us. Was

13:38

he sucking toes or something? Yeah. He's a

13:40

kid. He was a kid. He was

13:42

a lincoln thing. Didn't he have that

13:44

Ningitis? A massiaXiographies. No.

13:47

He was just in the closet. Face. No.

13:49

No. No. No. No. He sucked dick, but he only did it

13:51

with the half half of his face that fucking worked.

13:53

It was something that, you know, he had full functioning

13:56

phase until it was shut off. No. He had think

13:58

it wasn't it was diagnosed with a facial defect.

14:01

He's just people being rude in the eighteen hundreds.

14:03

He's an aberration called cranial facial

14:06

microsomy. That's just what they called people who

14:08

they thought were ugly

14:08

about that. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. He

14:10

just has Scalton had. Yes. 518

14:13

by the early nineteen fifties, Chuck

14:15

Dedrick was just a regular Schlub and

14:17

Toledo with a divorce under his

14:19

belt. So he moved to Southern

14:21

California to gain some perspective, and

14:23

he brought his drinking problem with. I'll tell you what

14:26

the divorce certainly was under my belt because

14:28

she certainly was fucking me, my

14:29

ass.

14:30

There you go. I

14:31

understand financially perhaps. But

14:33

by

14:33

nineteen fifty six, when Chuck was forty

14:35

three years old, his second wife

14:38

left him because of his continued

14:39

drinking. Yeah. He could still pull. Yeah.

14:41

He looked like yeah. looks like

14:44

a fucking Captain Planet Vail. It was

14:46

back in the day where if you even look at someone for,

14:48

like, fifteen seconds or like, will we better make

14:50

this

14:50

official? Yeah. And then you go get married. After

14:53

she left him, she suggested on her way out

14:55

the door that he might tryalcoholics anonymous

14:58

if he ever wanted to get his shit together. Okay.

15:00

It's like he's forty three before Synanon

15:03

even begins. That shows life doesn't end

15:05

forty. That's right. No, it doesn't. And sure enough,

15:07

once Chuck started attending AA meetings

15:09

in Beverly Hills, he fell in love

15:12

with the AA process partly

15:14

because he could use the meetings as an open mic

15:16

to tell

15:16

stories. Which were by all accounts,

15:19

quite entertaining. Stayed up better or better.

15:23

He stand up comedy his way.

15:25

Into being a cult leader because once

15:28

you start going to AA, because, you know, you

15:30

do testimonies in AA. We don't know

15:32

because I am not a quitter. That

15:34

you don't go and, like, you you tell like, you

15:36

talk about, like, what your experience was and

15:38

he'd go up there and he'd chappell it.

15:40

Yeah. He'd take the mic for, like, fucking forty

15:43

five minutes when everyone's waiting, but he's crushing

15:45

so hard and he's running the light. No one

15:47

wants to stop. He keeps slapping the mic

15:49

with his knee. Everybody laughs.

15:51

That's

15:51

Schappel. That's his that's his copy

15:53

red moon. Yeah. After

15:55

two years in AA, Dedrick decided

15:58

to participate in an experiment at

16:00

UCLA that wanted to test

16:02

the effectiveness of LSD on

16:04

alcoholics. And this may or may

16:06

not have been one of the lighter MK

16:08

Ultra experiments, but not

16:10

every LSD experiment done at a

16:12

university in the late fifties was funded

16:14

by the CIA. Just Most of

16:16

them were funded by the CIA. In the vast

16:18

majority. Ninety nine percent of them were funded

16:20

by the CIA.

16:21

definitely think it falls into the realm of

16:23

coincidence of the fact that it's another

16:26

person that is in this counterculture

16:28

world that was touched by some

16:30

form of I think it What

16:33

do we learn about MK Ultra? The ultimate

16:36

like, the the best part about them is that,

16:38

like, you don't even know your MK Ultra

16:40

until fucking years later. You didn't know until

16:42

the fucking eighties that you were MK Ultra because

16:44

you just were getting, like, that shadow

16:46

money. So, you know, it did

16:48

it. Apparently, how about I'm, like,

16:50

long reaching, like, constant goes. Absolutely.

16:53

What about Positive and negative. Doesn't

16:56

taking a bunch of acid inhibit your sobriety?

16:59

No. Well, that's what Joey does. No.

17:01

We'll talk about this because then, you know, how much

17:03

like he's not sober if he takes a

17:05

bunch of

17:06

assholes. Exactly. Your alley sober

17:08

if you do everything but alcohol.

17:10

Okay. Yeah. Because that's the thing he's staying

17:13

off of alcohol. 518

17:14

I thought AA was also, like, that's

17:17

why. That's why we're getting into.

17:19

Yeah. I mean, Daedric said that the experience was

17:21

highly

17:22

beneficial. Made them look about at his alcoholism

17:24

in an entirely new way. Yeah. Actually, my

17:26

alcoholism is a tetrahedron inside

17:29

this crystal that is my soul. And the

17:31

only thing I need to do is understand

17:33

me, understand pizza, and

17:36

I will receive mail from this.

17:40

518 it rubbed thealcoholics anonymous

17:42

leadership the wrong way because they believed

17:45

that the only things he needed to not drink alcohol

17:47

was

17:47

coffee, cigarettes, and higher

17:49

power.

17:50

Also very bad for you.

17:51

Yeah. Cigarettes probably the worst of all. Mhmm.

17:54

Sometimes something's gotta get Yeah. Again,

17:57

it would always have a last episode. Let the kids vape.

18:00

Now, this belief had actually never sat all that

18:02

well with Chuck Diedrick in the first place. He'd

18:05

never been comfortable with AA's religious

18:07

focus because he believed that it was important

18:09

for addicts to develop self reliance.

18:12

Mhmm. He did however believe that the group

18:14

therapy and community aspects of

18:16

AA were key.

18:17

Mhmm. You're never gonna find Helena

18:20

Bonham Carter. When you go to these

18:22

meetings.

18:22

Why? Bike club. Bike club.

18:24

It's all men that are

18:27

overweight. Overstand. Chain smoking

18:29

in a Hey, I believe you're not supposed

18:31

to have sex with the other people that are in your

18:33

chapter. I believe that that is against it. You're not

18:35

supposed to date It's not supposed to, 518,

18:37

I mean, where that's your friend group. I don't know

18:39

what you're old. What else are you gonna do? I don't know

18:41

where now. I feel like there's a lot of sexy

18:44

challenged people in these

18:46

groups. You never know. Maybe. It might

18:48

be. Who knows? So after

18:51

the AA leadership insisted that he

18:53

find treatment elsewhere because of his LSD

18:55

use, Chuck decided to start his

18:57

own version of addiction treatment that would

18:59

fall in line with his own

19:01

beliefs.

19:01

That's confidence. So, Kaye, is the reason

19:03

sitting on exist?

19:04

Hell, yeah. Oh, yeah. Well, it's because his it's his

19:06

reaction to it. And is it because he also was an

19:08

atheist. We need to not believe in a higher power

19:10

aspect of it. He wanted to find his secular way

19:12

to do it. But it is interesting to see

19:15

that he just loved being on Mike

19:17

so

19:18

much. 518 he was just like, I

19:20

need to do this for eleven. I need to

19:22

call big j. I need

19:24

to get in the mix in the Austin

19:26

scene.

19:27

Absolutely. 518 once he began

19:29

tapering off from AA meetings, other

19:31

recoveringalcoholics

19:32

would check up on him because they liked him.

19:35

Pretty much as fans were like, hey, bro,

19:37

you never come into AA meetings

19:39

anymore. You're fucking crushing the meeting, dude.

19:41

Where are you, man? Fucking sucks

19:43

without you there. And those checkups,

19:45

they evolved into impromptu meetings.

19:48

And those impromptu meetings evolved further

19:50

into thrice weekly meetings in

19:52

Daedrix'

19:53

part, he is correct in the fact

19:55

that the fucking occult arrived

19:58

to him at first before became a cult.

20:00

The group just showed up. Wow. So this

20:02

is really he's like, I didn't ask you to come

20:04

here. You all just showed up. Yeah. I guess I'm

20:06

a cult leader now. I think he did a little bit

20:08

like, yeah. Burn those meetings were boring

20:10

without me. Like, he did a couple of that being,

20:12

like, he knew. And then he started, like, you know,

20:15

get him hit him with the trunk, hit him with the

20:17

sparkle. Mhmm. Okay. What changed

20:19

everything though was when a heroin addict

20:21

named White Walker joined the group

20:23

just after he was released from prison.

20:26

Now, the group therapy sessions led by Dietrich

20:28

were always little more aggressive than

20:30

what they had in AA because that's how Dietrich

20:32

liked it. But White Walker introduced

20:34

a new dynamic. Soon,

20:37

Whidy was bringing other addicts that

20:39

Diedrich non pejoratively referred to

20:41

as dope fiends -- Mhmm. -- and

20:43

the more dope fiends showed up the

20:45

coarser the language got, and the

20:47

more aggressive the sessions became.

20:49

The

20:50

deaedalus of the Tony Robbins School.

20:52

That cursing and, like, saying,

20:55

like, super hyperconfrontational things,

20:57

like, make helps

20:59

engage street people. Like

21:01

people like, makes you feel more real

21:03

or, like, grounded. Like, this idea that I'm

21:05

a real guy. mean, you mean the great

21:07

name of Donia Robbins. He's six

21:09

foot seven and above, so must support him. He

21:11

has a lot of there's a lot of issues around

21:13

Tony Robbins right now, but his style

21:16

was this this is kind of where it came from,

21:18

was because Dieter thought, I was like, I'm

21:20

yelling at these guys, and he's calling them dope

21:22

beans in a way. It's like it's kind of like a light roasted

21:24

because it's about us taking the word

21:27

back. Whitey Walker definitely should have been

21:29

doing cocaine. No. I mean, I'm like

21:31

Whitey Walker. That guy had all white

21:33

suit pimped out full of beautiful

21:36

here on cut Colombian cookies. If

21:38

you hold, you find out you think he's a coke dealer,

21:40

but then it just turns out he just sells milk.

21:44

Two percent.

21:47

518 the thing is that Dietrich, with these

21:49

super abrasive meetings, very aggressive,

21:51

he was getting results. In a way

21:53

that AA wasn't getting results because

21:55

these and he's getting results with fucking

21:58

heroin at it. Wow. So

22:00

when the gatherings got too big for Dietrich's

22:02

apartment, he went for broke and leased

22:04

a storefront in Santa Monica. He

22:06

invited twenty alcoholics and

22:08

so called dope fiends to come live there

22:11

in what was effectively an early version of

22:13

a rehab

22:13

facility. Hold on a second. We had

22:15

a hard time getting a fucking lease in New York because

22:17

we have a podcast studio. Yep. How

22:19

that hell did the landlord be like, so twenty

22:22

don't feeds from our alcoholic stuff. Come right

22:24

in. It's actually incredible. I have a couple of

22:26

couches I wanna give you guys, but I need to move back.

22:28

I'm just lending them to

22:29

you. No. It's a it was different time period.

22:31

You know what I do? They didn't like it. They didn't

22:33

fucking hey. Like, he didn't tell them, hey,

22:35

we're gonna be moving a bunch of heroin addicts and

22:37

alcoholics into this place, and then once he

22:39

did, once they figured out what was going on, the entire

22:42

neighborhood was to get the fuck

22:44

out of here. Okay. It was the first of many

22:46

confrontations that Chuck Dedrick

22:49

would have with his

22:49

neighbors. Much as not get along well with others.

22:51

Much as people feel of influencers now.

22:54

I mean, technically, I

22:56

don't wanna illustrate where we're at, but there

22:59

is an influencer house down the street.

23:01

And it is pretty funny to pull up and

23:03

watch like two guys doing weird,

23:05

like, mohite karate on, like, oh, I

23:07

I've done the out front while another guy shoots

23:09

them and a girl's twerking next to them.

23:11

And then you kinda wonder, like, like,

23:13

are y'all paying for these? Are

23:15

you paying for anything? Or is this is some

23:17

awesome is Robert Downer Johnny Junior

23:20

paying for this

23:20

too? I think they're making that money on the ticket.

23:24

As far as what Chuck wanted to call his

23:26

new venture, the origins of the name are debated.

23:29

Some say that it's combination of the word symposium

23:32

and seminar. While others think it's

23:34

a play on the words, sinners, synthesize,

23:36

or Synanon. But no matter

23:38

the

23:38

origin, what came out the other end, was

23:41

Well, again, Great name. Yeah. Three syllables.

23:44

There's something about it keeping it. And it sounds

23:46

like it's connected to recovery because you have

23:48

stuff like, you know, alcohols anonymous. There's Synanon.

23:50

There's Synanon, all those things that are a

23:52

part of it. It sounds like a I think NARCANON

23:54

is technically

23:55

scientifically. No. Is it? I think I

23:57

don't think

23:58

NARCANON scientific. Yeah.

24:00

I know

24:00

someone who does narcotics on meetings. don't think

24:02

they don't seem like the type who will go to scientist.

24:05

They don't

24:05

say. And if there's one of those that

24:08

they don't say, you don't say. I was trying to

24:10

figure out what the term means and

24:12

evidently it means anonymous. It

24:14

means shortly. It

24:17

says, I'll see you a nun, which

24:19

I guess means sooner. You're literally yes.

24:21

That's a big spirit. Yeah. That's I should

24:23

see you as a

24:23

nun. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. But in this It's anonymous.

24:26

Phenomenomist.

24:27

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

24:27

It is on scytology dot org. They have

24:29

NARCAN on right at the very top. Wow. Great.

24:31

Yep. Wow. Good. Okay. Good

24:34

to know. Yeah. That's how they get you. But

24:36

you just never know. You never know. I mean, let's see

24:38

at least this is on the website. A lot of guys looking at

24:40

pamphlets on this website, so there's a lot of interest building.

24:42

No. Nadidra

24:45

believed that addiction was not so much an illness

24:47

that could be cured as it was a behavioral

24:49

problem that was caused by underlying social

24:51

and psychological issues

24:52

issues, which ain't a bad guess. You know? It's

24:54

not. The

24:55

bad mouth, isn't it? 518 it is worth noting that

24:57

Dedrick was a salesman before he founded

24:59

And I'll tell you how to could I

25:01

could sell You don't think I can still I

25:03

can still get your popsicle to a bitch

25:06

that likes mustard.

25:07

Yeah. Absolutely. I knew you're gonna steal

25:09

that line from Tommy Boy, and then I go all do you

25:11

want it? No problem. We're such a

25:13

good salesman. He could sell it ketchup popsicle to

25:15

a woman wearing white glove. Ketchup popsicle.

25:19

We're forty.

25:20

Marcus. He'll be forty next week. He'll be

25:22

forty a week from today. Welcome to the

25:24

club. I tell you what. We're only

25:26

getting younger. We're we're fresh, and we're

25:28

getting more available to the

25:30

young. The culture's getting younger

25:32

and older at the same time. So we're

25:34

evening out. We're evening out. I'm

25:36

right in the middle. I'm where I should be. Yep.

25:39

We don't have any choice. No. It's not

25:41

our it's not up to us. Well,

25:43

Dedrick had no more experience in treatment

25:45

care than the people who founded Straight Ink

25:47

or wasp. But to place Dietrich

25:49

apart, he was rarely sadistic --

25:51

Mhmm. -- and could be said in at least the first

25:53

ten years to have been quite

25:55

caring. Please

25:55

feel like a fungi for a while. For a while.

25:57

Yeah. And he did he was sadistic

25:59

sometimes. Oh,

26:00

he got too there. Or you no. He got extremely violent.

26:02

Yeah. Jesse got it. I wouldn't say extremely violent.

26:04

When we're talking about cults, Well,

26:06

after Ant Hill Kids. Yeah. Nothing can

26:08

be called Mylan in Ant Jones Town. Yeah.

26:11

Oh, yeah. Of course.

26:11

Yeah. But that was

26:12

just the one big I mean, I remember,

26:14

like, sometimes you wanna smack your friend

26:17

who's just hung over because they're annoying. Yeah.

26:19

So it must truly be difficult to deal

26:21

with a bunch of people who are going through withdrawal.

26:23

Like, sometimes you should be like, Tommy,

26:26

your shit, like, the lungs and the

26:28

toilet, not on your

26:29

face. And so it's someone you

26:31

do have to kind of get up that. Wow. That's the thing.

26:34

You're man, you're about to have your mind fucking

26:36

blown here. Yeah. Well,

26:38

similar to other cult leaders with initial good

26:40

intentions like Jim Jones, Chuck's

26:42

ego eventually got out of hand.

26:44

And while it never got to Jonestown levels,

26:47

Chuck and Jim's paths would cross

26:49

just before the shit hit the fan in

26:51

Guyana. Think about this. This shit's

26:53

happening in SoCal. There is

26:55

a lot. Of the

26:57

same guys, Elrond's in town.

27:00

Fucking. Kim Jones is in town.

27:02

He's he's speech like Carson. The

27:04

guy's whole There, dude. It just

27:06

wild to think that, like, all of this shit

27:09

was

27:09

happening. Like, Charles Manson -- Yeah. -- all this

27:11

shit was happening at the same time.

27:12

Yeah. And this guy, Chuck Dederick.

27:15

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28:26

Ask me. We were number five

28:29

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28:31

one time. That's true. I don't

28:33

care what anybody says. Don't you

28:35

ask Ben Kissell? So maybe you're asking

28:37

me, hey, Henry, if you've given therapy a try,

28:40

why I'm a winner. But that is incorrect.

28:42

Even winners get therapy. Better help.

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It's a great option. Especially if you're in that

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of different types of therapy. I've been in WIP

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therapy. I've been in jump therapy. I

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wouldn't I did I had a whole thing where I

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was in super hot water. Well, started

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cold 518 slowly and hot. It's cold

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29:23

Now, Synanon became truly innovative

29:25

starting in nineteen fifty nine with the introduction

29:28

of the cop out method, which was later

29:30

used extensively and wrongly in

29:32

the troubled teen schools. See, a

29:34

lot of addicts at Synanon were admitting

29:36

that they were still using drugs and they knew

29:38

that other people were still using drugs. But

29:40

they were keeping it all to themselves because their

29:42

brains were hardwired against snitch.

29:45

It's the number one criminal

29:47

crime.

29:48

Yeah. It's a snitch. Yeah. You know what I mean? Like and

29:50

you get learned

29:50

it's Yeah.

29:51

And mean,

29:52

you don't fucking tell everybody everybody's business because you

29:54

never know who's a fucking cop. Absolutely. But

29:56

Diedrich convinced everyone in Synanon that

29:58

snitching on yourself and others was not only

30:00

preferable, but essential to

30:03

the recovery process to snitch. Honestly,

30:05

he said, bound you to the community, and

30:07

that concept became central to Synanon

30:09

most well known and influential method.

30:12

See, after several open ended discussions

30:14

in which people snitched on each other's drug

30:16

use, the group began digging deeper

30:19

at what else everyone was keeping

30:21

secret. People started getting very

30:23

honest about

30:24

everything. People stopped being fake.

30:27

Start getting real. Well, that's what they said on

30:29

real world. It's it's that is

30:31

kind of where all that came from. I do believe

30:33

that this is the the true inspiration for

30:36

all of that style of

30:37

shit. Of, like, we would get into like

30:39

I mean, the only thing missing is cameras and doctor

30:41

Drew. Yeah. 518 this inspired

30:43

what came to be known as the game.

30:46

In the game, all players were required

30:48

to be intimately honest with each other

30:50

using a series of what they called indictments.

30:53

To attack hypocrisy and fraud

30:55

in a fellow group member. Also, I know another

30:57

game and you just lost it. Why?

31:00

Oh, yeah. What? Now --

31:02

Game. -- you just lost it and said, why? Don't

31:04

you don't need this? He

31:05

doesn't know this? No. 518.

31:06

What? It's like school

31:07

yard, man. School yard had time on

31:09

the cool garden studio. No. I was out there with

31:11

all the boys. No. You were. You were all played

31:13

at handball. Oh, you didn't? No. I played handball.

31:15

And then we did something play like married life

31:18

for I would be a husband. Oh my god. And

31:20

then -- Great. -- superheroes, and

31:22

then we played with theija board.

31:24

And when I did play a

31:25

handful.

31:25

Oh, you played you played handball. Oh, yeah.

31:28

I sport. It's a little racket. But

31:30

the game was thing that you Synanon if

31:32

you say the game become aware of the game, you've

31:34

lost it. Yeah. I

31:37

don't know. I don't know. It's like I'm talking to

31:39

my father. don't know. So

31:42

I'll be I'll be your father. Have

31:44

a god. How

31:45

god? End me. Now your man is sad.

31:47

Now it's doing it. Oh. Sound like a teenager

31:50

trying to explain Fortune to his uncle. It's different

31:52

like how cool four channels. It's cool,

31:54

man. It's easy to know four

31:55

channels.

31:56

So that's the fourth grandson of

31:58

Jack again. Is that correct?

32:00

Well, in the game, Like I said, all players

32:03

were required to be intimately honest. And

32:05

the idea was that this introduced a

32:07

brutal kind of accountability that led

32:09

to the development of personal integrity

32:12

a drop in impulsive action and a

32:14

sense of social

32:14

responsibility. Mhmm. And remember, at

32:17

this time here, it dissolved them with consenting

32:19

hardcore adults. Yes. It is. That's

32:21

the that is key. At the very top of this,

32:23

there was a kind of an edge to it that did

32:26

seem to be helpful.

32:27

Like, there was little bit of it. 518, you know,

32:29

because obviously, we're discussing the troubled

32:31

teen industry.

32:32

Yes. And this is adults. Okay. Because the the

32:34

ideas that you might think twice about doing

32:36

some shitty if you knew that you'd be publicly

32:39

balled out during a game session for doing

32:41

that shitty thing. Gotcha. And by Dredrick's

32:43

reckoning, drug addicts couldn't hide anything

32:45

if they expect to be clean because secrecy

32:48

was the root of their addiction. I mean, it's

32:50

it's a simplification, but Yeah. No. No.

32:52

I mean, that's the thing is that the game and

32:54

worked for some people just like

32:57

AA works for some

32:58

Sure. I mean, I'm just saying when I think of drug addicts,

33:00

I don't think of secrecy you see them in the

33:02

office. Run them out of talking or,

33:04

like, kind of, fallen over, but also

33:06

not. But that's what the twin towers needed.

33:09

Heroin. Have you ever

33:11

seen a competition one

33:14

entire floor just full of heroin? 518

33:19

know what they're not being honest with is anybody

33:22

but

33:22

themselves. One

33:24

of the things that it's Send it on to

33:26

someone. It's a program for people who

33:28

do keep it a

33:29

secret. And

33:30

they need to talk. And they need to

33:32

talk. They want to talk. Sure. They are

33:34

actively asking for this.

33:36

Mhmm. Mhmm.

33:37

And people who participated, they said they felt

33:39

invigorated afterward. Their behavior,

33:41

some people, it changed significantly. Right.

33:43

And as far as how a game session went, they lasted

33:46

between two and three hours and were comprised

33:48

of eight to fifteen players. And all

33:50

of this was transposed in an

33:52

extremely simplified form to

33:54

the troubled teen

33:55

industry, to many of the troubled

33:57

teen schools. Okay.

33:59

Each player was asked to, quote,

34:01

run their story, which was their cue

34:03

to open up their life to the other

34:04

players. Like

34:05

me, I'm a fuck more unstoppable

34:08

force of nature. And everybody says,

34:10

Chuck, Chuck, Chuck, Chuck, stop fucking. Right? You can leave somebody

34:12

using the reservoirs. And I was like, alright, I will

34:14

quit the booth.

34:17

After opening up, the other players confronted

34:19

lies and weaknesses in a public

34:21

forum of analytical and humorous gossip.

34:24

No holds barred. You could attack

34:26

interpersonal issues, work patterns,

34:28

emotions,

34:29

idiosyncrasies, basically any

34:31

weak spot. Sounds like a comedy central

34:33

roast of an alcoholic. Yeah.

34:36

And obviously, a lot of those the more

34:38

lives have been changed in sides of

34:40

roast and have had him most

34:42

rehab

34:43

centers. I'm pretty sure.

34:44

Yes and did. 518 the thing I mean, it is a roast,

34:46

but it's an uncork roast. Yeah.

34:48

Like, you're

34:49

on court for us. 518

34:51

and this is absolutely key. The

34:53

point of the game was not to attack

34:56

the

34:56

person, but to attack the

34:58

behavior. Hate the sin, not

35:00

the sinner. Yes. Exactly. This

35:02

allowed the target to separate themselves and

35:04

look what they were doing rather than absorbing

35:07

the abuse personally. The problem

35:09

was that when the game was adapted to troubled

35:11

teen programs like the Éilan School

35:14

or Straight

35:14

Inc. No such distinction was made.

35:16

That subtlety was lost.

35:18

Oh. In essence, they were handing this fairly

35:20

complicated and subtle method to emotionally

35:22

unstable traumatized teenagers who

35:25

were usually just looking to transfer the pain they'd

35:27

receive to whoever was next in

35:29

line. So the drugs aren't the problem. You're

35:31

the problem. Yeah. It's the idea, but then

35:34

did you even say that it's complicated and subtle,

35:36

but where would go? Like, it

35:38

actually was a it's a different process that

35:40

I think lot of other, like, therapies

35:43

that maybe I'm wrong

35:44

here. But it sounds like it's That

35:45

doesn't sound complicated at all. But it's it

35:47

sounded it's started

35:50

complicated in subtle and actually became

35:52

more simplified as it went. Well, yeah. Like,

35:54

because as they'd started doing the game

35:56

more more the more abusive became

35:58

as you'll

35:59

see. Oh, yeah. Very much so. But in

36:01

sitting on the game, at least in the early days,

36:03

it was described as an emotional dance.

36:06

It was a dream that could either be a nightmare or

36:08

a pleasant experience. You know? And

36:10

I realized --

36:11

Mhmm. -- there's no word for a good dream. Yeah.

36:13

There's this nightmare. That's a

36:14

bad word. There's a word for a pleasant dream.

36:17

There isn't one. Gatherous, what is

36:19

it? Euphoria. That's

36:21

not that's not a That's the name of a TV show.

36:25

No. There's gotta be something dream.

36:28

His name? Pleasure

36:30

dream. Pleasure dream. Pleasure

36:33

dream. I guess you just say Pleasure

36:34

dream. Yeah. Yeah. Pleasure dream? Iced cream.

36:36

That's how well

36:37

that's how very few times the night stream

36:39

happens. Mhmm. That's right. Isn't that isn't

36:41

that really haven't had my had a dream I couldn't

36:43

stand up. Wow.

36:45

It was going through a lot of neat pains because the

36:47

because of the

36:48

weather.

36:49

Oh, it's still the rain. What's the rain? Did

36:51

you just sat in the chair in your green? No. I was trying to

36:53

stand up and fight people, but I couldn't stand up. Really sad.

36:55

That's hard. That's hard. My knees were

36:57

hurting. Wow. Wow. Mhmm. Interesting. Interesting.

36:59

Interesting. Move on. I

37:01

had a dream last night that I was being choked

37:04

in a garage full of silver

37:05

balloons. Buddy, that wasn't your dream. Oh, yeah.

37:07

That happened. Yeah. We were there. Sorry, dude.

37:09

Sure. Yeah. Yeah. We fucked you up real good. They

37:11

hired a task grab He

37:14

was so good, and even four stars,

37:16

though, because five stars is something

37:18

special. He's actually dressed as a huge

37:20

rebel. No. Okay. Well,

37:21

I thought it was just the the

37:22

a great idea when our own CIA We're

37:25

signing you. Yeah. You don't know

37:26

that yet. You just blew the cover.

37:28

I mean, but you'll forget. I'll forget. Yeah. That's the

37:30

thing. You just say the magic word just go back

37:32

and say like peabody and then some done. Artichoke.

37:36

So in other words, it was nailed

37:39

it. other words, it was something

37:41

far too complex insensitive to be

37:43

directed by sociopaths and or

37:45

traumatized teens because sometimes

37:47

it was both. Mhmm. But one thing that both

37:49

the game and the troubled teen attack therapies

37:52

like Elon School's general meeting shared

37:54

was the use of extreme

37:56

profanity. It's kinda fun.

37:57

Digital believe that the use of proximity and blastomy

38:00

help lower inhibitions, which can be

38:02

fun if it's all adults. But when

38:04

it's used by

38:05

teens, it's usually just a bunch of fucks.

38:07

Struggled together with no real structure

38:09

or purpose. I feel like I used

38:11

more curse words in general sense

38:13

when I was younger, but now I

38:16

like to use it more and I use it more

38:18

effectively. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

38:20

Come. Which technically

38:22

not even the first

38:23

word? It's not,

38:23

but it's not, but you made me laugh. Yeah.

38:25

Because it's not easy. Yeah. I know I used to just say

38:28

full sentences that were all old hurts or

38:30

hurt. Understand what I was like. Get that fucking

38:32

bullshit out of my goddamn asshole. Yeah.

38:36

Yeah. And that's basically what happened. Right.

38:38

And the game wasn't the only method taken from

38:40

Synanon. Like the Éilan Schools, new

38:42

Synnon residents had to break outside

38:44

relations for the first ninety days. That's first

38:46

step. Yeah. That's bad. Although

38:49

that could be extended to a year if

38:51

those outside relations were deemed detrimental.

38:53

Well, that's the first thing that is a red flight

38:55

to work. Oh, yeah. And similarly, anything

38:58

that might distract the addict was taken

39:00

away. For example, Synanon was extremely

39:02

popular amongst the Jazz community. Mhmm.

39:04

Because

39:06

heroin was very popular amongst

39:08

the jazz community.

39:09

It's how you get relaxed. It makes sense.

39:11

So most jazz musicians were

39:14

barred from playing instruments or singing

39:16

for the first part of their stay at a center.

39:18

Actually wanna thank Synanon for saving

39:20

my favorite bar on Friday nights. Jazz

39:23

night has been canceled. And

39:26

it's got a fun though, but it is sad to have a room.

39:28

We're specifically no saxophones are

39:30

allowed. Yeah. That is weird. No.

39:32

Yeah.

39:32

That is weird. No saxophones.

39:34

Not not a single saxophones. But it's specifically

39:36

pointedly, no saxophones or

39:39

trumpets. I mean, that's also

39:41

again, if you're bringing yo, saxophones more

39:43

friendly. You bring a Trump into

39:45

a

39:45

meeting. It sounds like you're trying to disrupt something.

39:48

I feel like a Trump 518 his friendlier. I feel like a

39:50

saxophone is a very aggressive

39:51

instrument. Could you wanna

39:52

play the sax and the sex can sound beautiful alone.

39:54

Trump is just,

39:57

maybe I just have those associations because

39:59

of the sex of phone guy that used to be on the L trade.

40:02

And play me is stop. Yeah. Pay me to stop. Yeah.

40:04

And I was back when It was fun. Back

40:06

when it was Yes. But all

40:08

of this, these are the seeds. Of the

40:10

cult like behavior that would eventually

40:12

fall prey to. Another was the institution

40:15

of something nonsensically called

40:17

Ramadula, he just I feel

40:19

like Because the We'll

40:21

be constantly getting named from the water

40:23

boy. 518

40:31

Chuck Dieteric loved the sound of his own voice.

40:33

Right? He was constantly improvising these

40:35

monologue. Some people would go like, this kinda

40:37

started early and then just gotten worse and worse

40:39

and worse as as it went. But it does

40:41

sound like it's a lot of people adopted

40:44

his little pet sayings and

40:46

that it became official terminology for

40:48

the club. I mean, fuck did

40:50

literally fuck? We all say

40:52

that sentence that he

40:54

created. Yes. We all say the rest of your

40:56

life. He was a he was a quote mission.

40:58

Wow. I mean, that's pretty incredible, to be honest.

41:00

While in Ramadula, Synanon

41:03

members had to act unnaturally upbeat

41:05

no matter what they were

41:06

doing. And visitors often described being

41:09

met with an unsettling sea

41:11

of smiles of a

41:12

phenomenon facility.

41:13

It's what she said. From AA, which is

41:15

act as you know, act as

41:18

if you were the person you wanted to

41:19

be, like an idea of you fake it till you make it.

41:21

Yeah. Yeah. But

41:22

why would you wanna be a smiling buffoon all

41:24

the time? Because I don't know. Write a motion

41:26

for ninety percent of life. But straight

41:28

up Chuck Dieter, except that I want you to be so

41:30

busy when I look at

41:31

you. You're nothing but a blur of teeth and

41:33

and paint. Sounds like my manager,

41:36

Wendy's. Yeah.

41:37

That's your manager, Wendy, said that you wanted

41:39

to be a she wanted you to be blur

41:41

of teeth and pings.

41:42

Yeah. Time to lean lean.

41:44

Yeah. You got to clean. Well, actually, leaning doesn't

41:46

take a lot of time.

41:47

No. It really doesn't. You

41:48

really get will not let go if you got the little

41:50

time to lean, you got time to clean.

41:51

It's the most offensive thing that has ever been

41:53

said to him. I worked at the eight fast food restaurants

41:56

every time I got a fine for breaking blah

41:58

blah. I had to go pay it off and

42:00

I had to go to a fast food job.

42:06

Well, sitting on, they actually got a

42:08

lot of positive attention in their

42:10

early days, and some of it was oddly

42:12

prophetic. A senator named Thomas

42:15

Dodd declared that could, quote,

42:17

lead the way in the future to an effective

42:19

treatment for not only drug addicts, 518

42:22

also criminals and juvenile

42:24

delinquency. Senators immediately looking

42:26

to find a

42:28

because they just want a one

42:30

stop shop. Where it's like, great. We'll

42:32

take these troubled people. We'll fucking put them in the room.

42:34

Boom. Done. They're done. They're fixed. Boom. Back in the

42:36

workforce. Like, people just don't give me shit.

42:38

They just think that they can do it fast. To

42:40

be honest though, it seems more sympathetic than the

42:42

war on drugs. Oh, it's very at the very

42:44

least, they're like, well, let's not incarcerate them. Let's go

42:47

to the meetings. I mean, No, sir. I

42:49

can see this actually. Yes. If well,

42:51

obviously, because it's gonna spiral out of control.

42:53

But if it's if it stays

42:55

good, it's could've meant something

42:57

good. Yeah. Could've been to be that it never

42:59

does. Oh, it doesn't. 518 it's ego.

43:01

It's always ego's getting out of control. It's

43:03

to buy Jim Jones and Chuck Dedrick are very similar

43:06

because they're men who start

43:08

off with good intentions that I do believe

43:10

they do have good good intentions at first.

43:13

With, you know, with Jim Jones. It was racial equality

43:15

with John Diedrich. It's, you know, it's treatment

43:17

of addicts. But at

43:19

one point, either they get

43:22

bored or their ego gets

43:24

fed their ego just gets too fat

43:26

and they just lose it. And then when you

43:28

when substances come into play with Jim Jones.

43:31

It was amphetamines. With Chuck Diedrick, it's

43:33

gonna be the relapse

43:35

of alcoholism. Yeah. They just spins

43:37

out of control and just things and things get real

43:40

fucking

43:40

weird. Trying to think anyone has started anything

43:42

with bad intentions and ironically it turned

43:44

out to be good.

43:45

It's kind of interesting that most things people

43:47

do think they're doing good, and then it turns

43:49

bad. That's why we have that whole the

43:52

saying. The road to hell is paved good intentions.

43:54

Mhmm. I feel like I mean, we developed

43:56

a whole series of drones that could blow people

43:58

up, and now they make incredible cheap shots

44:00

in our favorite superhero movies. That's

44:04

worth it. Yeah. That's about the twenty

44:06

year war.

44:07

Yeah. Plus the next -- Yep. --

44:08

thousand year war we're about to have. That's pretty

44:10

good. Yeah. We got those cool shots and smile.

44:13

Well, I may think about it. Oh, really cool. They

44:15

lent Tom Cruise. They

44:17

they lent that slave owner Yes.

44:20

A fishy. Buy around. It's true. It's incredible,

44:23

man. And now now there are movies and we like it.

44:25

Like, before they were being used as straight.

44:28

Like Civilians. Yeah. Okay. Great.

44:30

Yeah. Sure. Well, a little like Scientology,

44:33

Synanon attracted a fair amount of attention

44:35

from the entertainment business. Besides

44:37

the aforementioned jazz musicians. A

44:40

feature film based on Synanon founding

44:42

called Synodont was released in nineteen

44:45

sixty five co starring Ertha

44:47

Kit in a supporting role

44:49

as Chuck Dedrick's

44:50

wife, Betty. Let's play a little bit on

44:52

the trailer. Can we see Ertha Kit? Yes.

44:55

Yes. The most beautiful woman is beautiful. She's

44:57

incredible. I don't know how. She's always my catwoman. I don't

44:59

know how.

45:02

Synanon is a real corporation. Its

45:05

business is junkies. Shot at

45:07

Dedrick is the ex drunk who dreamed it up and

45:09

fights to keep it from becoming a

45:11

nightmare. I get

45:12

that current shut up. Stand over there.

45:14

Put your hands against the wall. Get that sound,

45:16

stay there.

45:17

But nobody tells me what

45:20

to do. The

45:20

pool behind the deck. Ridiculous

45:23

fist tends so tight for a fix, they

45:25

believe. Look,

45:27

Betty, I don't make scenes with chicks

45:29

because I've got other things on my mind.

45:32

Yeah. But how Dal

45:34

faced with a deadly densey of

45:37

appetite. What are you, my

45:39

nurse?

45:41

No. Just another dog thing.

45:43

That's another dog thing. Thank you.

45:46

A hip hop hit, up from the gutter

45:48

to grab, anything he could be. Cool.

45:50

Yeah. I think he doesn't make it, by the

45:52

way. Yeah. I think he's not going anywhere.

45:54

No. You could almost hear the big fat

45:56

tines of spenders. No. It's cool.

45:58

Because again, talk about a movie

46:00

that at least everybody who's in it looks horrible.

46:03

Do the hell this virus again? Well, the guy

46:05

not really bother the shit looks great. But Chuck Deidrick

46:07

is, like, played by it's so nice to have him not

46:10

played by, like, Joaquin Phoenix. I Like,

46:12

it's like, a fat ugly guy. played a fat

46:14

ugly guy. It's realtor. I mean, I loved

46:16

I loved the dude who played Penguin. He did

46:18

a great job. But but he would They could

46:21

have daddy devito? No. All in fair. All in fair.

46:23

All in fair. that's right. You could also

46:25

just hire hire an ugly actor every now

46:27

and again. It's hard man ugly actors are

46:30

To be honest, but these are guilty crimes. The

46:32

person who should have played the thing when who

46:34

truly seems evil judging by all of his stories

46:36

is Joey

46:37

Diaz. Yeah. You

46:39

think you think you've got nothing. Yeah.

46:41

You think about the ugly actors that would be good to play

46:43

in Penguin that's also a criminal, Jeffrey Jones.

46:45

Jeffrey Jones as well actual Criminal.

46:48

Exactly. He's the first criminals to play

46:51

criminals, please. Representative.

46:54

Fantastic. Now, within ten years

46:56

of its founding, right around the time that the Synanon

46:58

movie was released in theaters, Chuck

47:01

Dedrick's unlicensed rehab startup

47:03

had eleven hundred members and was

47:05

getting two point five million dollars

47:07

a year in donations. Yeah. It owns

47:10

seven million dollars in real estate in

47:12

five states It had its own merch

47:14

business and it ran a number of

47:16

gas

47:16

stations. He learned that from scientist that you

47:18

buy in a real estate. He is a better

47:20

businessman than all of adults

47:22

win. Yeah. They actually have merch.

47:24

Yep. Yeah. Well, I mean, that's the thing you say science

47:26

he learned from scintology. I don't think he did because

47:28

science ology on ran parallel

47:30

each other.

47:31

Maybe because it was an executive already. He had

47:33

started his working for he was working for

47:35

a big corporation, and then he just

47:36

understood, like, oh, I just use that structure. Yeah. I think

47:38

he's just smart. You know? Like, there's some a good

47:40

idea is a good idea. You know what I mean? Yep.

47:42

Yeah. Now partly, sitting on

47:44

and gotten so cash rich, because

47:47

it had opened its ranks to non addicts

47:49

in the late sixties. Because Dedrick

47:51

figured that anyone could benefit from

47:53

the game and non

47:55

addicts. They get lot more money than drug

47:57

addicts. You got one foot shorter than the other?

47:59

You got one leg than the other. You don't even have to talk

48:01

in that leg. Yeah. We're Not historically. Just

48:04

feel like if you don't have a problem, why would

48:06

you go to this? This works

48:08

because

48:08

again, we're gonna get into it. It's about building

48:11

an understanding community. Okay.

48:13

Well, these non addict Synanon members

48:15

were called Squares. And once

48:17

they join, Chuck Dedrick realized

48:20

that people

48:21

shouldn't, quote, unquote, graduate from

48:23

sitting on anymore. Used to be you could graduate

48:26

from sitting on. It was on your own. Be

48:28

be a seed in the world. It was supposed

48:30

to correct do and help you and then

48:32

release you. But then he is just like he realized,

48:34

what was the quote? He realized that

48:36

you can't graduate a religion.

48:38

Yeah. But

48:39

he's not quite to that point. Yeah. I look at that. Well,

48:41

that's

48:41

the beginning of a cult. Yeah. Well,

48:44

he realizes at this point that can

48:47

become a lifelong

48:48

commitment. Why let people go? Yeah.

48:51

But this is like what happens when they allow you to

48:53

graduate with master's in sociology and your

48:55

only profession as being a teacher.

48:57

Yeah. It's hard. Now predictably, once

48:59

became a long term thing and more

49:01

people with money join, Chuck Dedrick

49:04

began building compounds And

49:06

by nineteen seventy one, and this is when I'm talking

49:08

about the largest call you've never heard of, almost

49:10

two thousand people lived in

49:13

Synanon facilities mostly here in

49:15

California. Wow.

49:16

Yeah. Good. It was Janet. Good thing Janet

49:18

Reno wasn't around that. I don't know if she would have had

49:20

a a field day killing all of them. Go

49:22

yet. Well, consequently, Chuck Dedrick

49:24

and Synanon became more controlling and

49:27

militant in the late sixties and early seventies.

49:29

In nineteen seventy one, for example, Dedrick

49:32

tried putting some company dope fiends in

49:34

their place with an act that was later

49:36

called The Dirty Double dozen.

49:39

Oh, but it's really gonna name that.

49:42

Dirty doll doesn't. Oh,

49:43

man. That sounds like a great like, man. It

49:45

sounds like a great donut shop in Portland.

49:47

So I don't I was just all I heard was

49:49

Bukaki. Yeah. That's all you

49:51

guys saw am I able to -- I just

49:53

thought are, like, really unhealthy doughnuts. --

49:55

like, really good doughnuts. This difference between

49:57

us. I gotta I gotta take a break. I could see

49:59

that being like a special every Thursday at

50:01

Burger King, the dirty double dozen. Oh, yeah.

50:03

Yeah. I could see that.

50:04

Yeah. So burgers, donuts, Come.

50:07

Mhmm. That's another show.

50:09

That's the that's the show. That nails it.

50:12

Well, after ordering twenty two dope

50:14

thin old timers and two young

50:16

squares onto a

50:18

bus. They dubbed the cinecruiser. That's

50:20

cool. That's

50:22

actually It was a great

50:24

home bus. They buy. Like, that's the Synanon Homeboy,

50:26

the Homeboyantz also hits it a lot with

50:29

the term Gittney. Gittney. Gittney?

50:31

He keeps calling into Gittney. Okay. And then,

50:33

actually, Chuck Dieterich went as far as to say

50:35

is that the bus, the Senatecruiser, was

50:38

the second most important element. Of

50:41

other than him. He

50:44

loved his

50:44

bus. So Elrond Hubbard had the

50:47

cineplex draft of the boat and he's got the

50:49

a crew. Just get the center cruiser, but but the center

50:51

cruiser is very necessary

50:54

because their two biggest their

50:56

two biggest compounds are in Santa

50:58

Monica and in Marin

51:00

County, like, right in

51:01

California. So, you

51:02

know, they're, like, about four hundred miles apart from each other. Yeah.

51:04

It's a five and a half hour drive. Yeah. But now bus

51:08

Oh man, being on a bus with bunch of people

51:10

who are recovering drug addicts. I mean, it

51:12

is just a grayhound. Who's thinking songs? Yeah.

51:14

But that's the thing that they actually know. Total

51:16

silence on this trip. Oh. Yeah. Totally

51:19

silence from Santa Monica to Marin

51:21

County.

51:22

Actually, maybe that's best. Not

51:24

that I think about. If I was a passenger, I

51:27

maybe silence. Well, it's mandatory silence

51:29

is definitely better than mandatory singing.

51:31

Yes. Like, that is for

51:33

certain. I agree. With the double dozen,

51:35

once they arrived, they had all their possessions

51:37

taken away. And they were then verbally attacked

51:40

in a special game featuring Diedrich,

51:42

his wife, Betty, the one that's played by Ortho Kit.

51:44

It was also the Synanon director of the board

51:47

and an attorney Square. And

51:49

amongst the indictments were skimming community

51:51

supplies and smoking, which

51:53

were two things that were newly banned and

51:55

sent in on because it used to be smoking was

51:57

almost mandatory. They and they actually spent

52:00

something like seventy thousand dollars

52:02

a year on cigarettes.

52:03

Oh, yeah,

52:03

man. This is back when cigarettes were good for your teeth.

52:06

Yeah. This is back when cigarettes were like a dime

52:08

a pack and they're still spending like sixty grand

52:10

a year. You can't just

52:11

smoke. You can't pull the rug out like that though. Yeah.

52:13

You would see it because because you gotta wean them off

52:15

the cigarettes. It was all because Chuck EDERIC

52:17

HAD JUST STOP SMOKING FIGRATS WHICH BECOMES

52:19

A THEMES A THINK THAT HE DECIDES

52:21

HE WANTS TO DO SOMETHING. THE WHOLE GROUP

52:24

EITHER SAYS Oh, that's

52:26

a great idea. Or Chuck Dieter can

52:28

sort up like Hinton. This would be a great

52:30

idea for you all to say that this is a great

52:32

idea. No. That's sucks, and then it becomes

52:34

a

52:34

law. I see. 518 in addition,

52:36

the double dozen was also accused of not

52:38

playing the game enough, which is basically, you're

52:41

not as invested in the cult as you need to

52:43

be and also impregnating two other

52:45

residents. So that that one's kinda serious. You're not supposed

52:47

to do that? Not supposed to do that. No. This

52:48

is also weird strain. Yeah.

52:51

And so after over a hundred confessions

52:53

were made during dozens of games, the

52:55

dirty double dozen were made to shave

52:57

their heads as contrish as

52:59

was the Senate on

53:00

customs. Oh, yes. Why is that? You know, when

53:02

it comes to certain religious beliefs,

53:04

the hair is so important. Mean,

53:07

obviously, you go to prison. The first thing they do

53:09

shave that No. It

53:11

really does change you. Doesn't it? -- does. You look

53:13

at the same thing. We talk about what happens, Kate, that

53:15

we joke about the haircuts stuff on that on that episode.

53:17

But again, it's about creating a unified identity

53:20

so that everybody looks exactly the same.

53:23

And at the very beginning of that, I will

53:25

listen to first couple episodes of

53:27

that

53:28

the the the show about Senate and on.

53:30

I

53:30

think it was called the Sunshine Place or whatever. And

53:32

it was like because it was from two kids

53:34

that were grazed in it. Yeah. And one of them

53:36

were saying, like, it is just wild to see

53:38

your head, like, once you get your head shaved and

53:40

you're like, oh, I don't look like me anymore.

53:42

Right. And that's why Ben Kissell's

53:45

called Bush Air. A big old

53:47

Bush. It's got very specific rules

53:49

and stand for

53:49

your bush hair. Yes. Because then you go around with a

53:51

ruler to measure the

53:54

level of bush hair being, like, you need to actually

53:56

be taking

53:56

Karatine. It's a mountain that would be an

53:58

enchire. Well, that's the thing.

54:00

What if you're That's the thing. Everyone's got different

54:03

curlies. Everyone's got different sickness in their

54:05

Technically, I have a

54:05

lot of bush hair, but it's almost translucent. Yeah.

54:08

And that's the thing I've got on their lawn chairs. Yeah.

54:10

But I got really thick. Like, I got

54:12

I got bush share,

54:13

like, a fucking like, a thorn bush. Yeah. You

54:15

know? Well, that's a lot. I'm just glad Fernando's

54:17

here in the room. We met he knows.

54:19

We met he knows that we're always it's it's gonna

54:21

be no look for the company.

54:22

Absolutely. But while the act of shaving

54:24

one's head started an office contrition,

54:27

everyone was eventually contrite so

54:29

often that almost all members

54:31

just kept their head shaved. In

54:33

fact, so many people on synod had

54:35

shaved heads that George Lucas

54:38

used a Synanon as bald

54:40

futuristic dystopian extras in

54:42

his first

54:43

movie, THX 1138, you

54:45

know things are going wrong when you're just cast as

54:47

a dystopian nightmare. Right. So

54:49

you guys you guys are all but you'd like, you know,

54:52

like, slaves to a godhead. Right? Like, great

54:54

perfect word. Stand over here. Like, no

54:56

makeup needed

54:56

today. Perfect. Yeah. At one

54:59

point, did dip their

55:01

toe into the troubled teen industry.

55:03

But once they did

55:04

so, It was the beginning of the end

55:06

of the good times for the soon to be called.

55:08

That fast. Yeah. See, during the sixties

55:11

and seventies, Synanon coordinated with the

55:13

San Francisco go and Oakland police departments

55:15

to see if they could adapt the game to

55:17

help juvenile offenders. This

55:20

had come about because Synanon had previously hosted

55:22

games between police and felons in

55:24

order to improve relations between them.

55:27

And at one point, They had put on a

55:29

very tense game between Oakland

55:31

police and the local chapter of

55:33

the Black

55:33

Panthers. That must have been really fun. That must

55:36

have been a great game on laser tag. In your in

55:38

that room. It's just been out

55:40

of control.

55:42

Wow. What a game of dodgeball. But

55:44

since seems like those games yielded

55:46

positive results. Okay. took

55:49

forty nine adult criminals in an experiment

55:51

that was overseen by California State Universe

55:53

and they began gaming them. Surprisingly,

55:56

the program led to positive successes

55:58

for thirty eight out of those forty nine

56:01

people. Okay. So they figured if it

56:03

worked for adults. It must work

56:05

for kids. Yeah. So a Synanon

56:07

supporter named Donald Cressey who was

56:09

actually a sociologist and a criminologist

56:12

He worked with Synanon on what they

56:14

called the punk squad. This is

56:16

just again because adults

56:19

can under stant -- Yeah. -- that you're

56:21

making fun of me. And like and

56:23

I'm I'm like owning it. Right? Like, you can call

56:25

an adult dope feed, and they can understand

56:28

the vague sense of irony that's

56:30

kind of, like, attached to it. Okay. You know what I

56:32

mean? They are. Yeah. But kids

56:34

don't. Like, on some level, it's very difficult.

56:36

I mean, like, yeah, they do, but it's like it

56:38

it gets in there. Like, it starts with the punching.

56:40

Yeah. Call them a bunch of punks. And, like, that's

56:42

what you do and we're like, you're yeah. You're some troubled

56:44

kid. We're gonna fucking straighten you out and

56:46

shit. I it feels like, maybe I'm wrong.

56:49

But it seems that kids don't really respond to

56:51

that as

56:52

well. They don't most, don't. I certainly didn't.

56:54

That's for sure. No. They internalize it, and

56:56

it becomes trauma, and they become

56:59

what you tell them they

56:59

are. I think so. Yeah. I used to get you calling it

57:02

really cool kid. Yeah. That's why look at it,

57:04

man. That's why he rolled up here on a motor but

57:06

what was where the engine wasn't

57:07

going? Maybe anything like you look. We just walked

57:09

you with weed. I was like, how

57:11

economical? Cool kid.

57:14

A complete contradiction to everything previously

57:17

believed, none of the kids in the punk

57:19

squad were in the program voluntarily,

57:22

which was a key component for the

57:24

game to work. You gotta wannabe. Yeah. Otherwise,

57:26

you just got fucking forced into a room where everyone

57:29

screams horrible things at you. Mhmm. Exactly.

57:31

And additionally, the punk squad used physical

57:33

force. For the first time in Senon's history,

57:36

because Synanon leaders decided the punks

57:38

needed to be pushed to the ground by the chest

57:40

when NIS necessary if they didn't listen or

57:42

participate. Well, it seems like you're escalating

57:44

quickly here. Very quickly. And these kids are

57:46

not there on their their own will.

57:49

Right? So they don't particularly they are

57:51

prisoners there in a way. Yeah. And so, yeah, they're

57:53

not really responding to the game the way

57:55

you want them

57:55

to. So instead of you just kind of understanding

57:57

leaving room for Yes. They just started, like, motion

58:00

their

58:00

faces into the ground. Yeah. They're juvenile delinquents.

58:02

Right. Like,

58:03

they don't wanna do your stupid little fucking

58:05

game. Also, they were probably right

58:07

Maybe to the sixties and seventies, and I'm just

58:09

like seeing through the shit. Just being like, y'all

58:11

know that this is bad. Right? That you know this is gonna

58:13

go south. You don't wanna go fought

58:15

to be a clone of the name of

58:17

democracy. Yeah. You don't wanna

58:20

do that? No, dude. I don't.

58:22

Yeah. You're a

58:23

punk. It really feels like should

58:25

just say, oh, you're a punk. Well,

58:27

treated as second class citizens within the

58:29

already rigid sitting on hierarchy, punks

58:31

had to sit in the back of the bus hold

58:33

doors open for nonpunks, address

58:35

every nonpunk as sir or ma'am. They

58:37

had to wake up at four AM every

58:39

day, and they were required to smile

58:42

at all times. Hanging a little

58:44

bit. Rangeloo. Right?

58:46

Rangeloo? Rangeloo? Rangeloo? Rangeloo. The

58:50

forced to smile thing is so

58:53

nefarious to me. Oh, it is. So because

58:55

it's thought it is literally trying to control

58:57

old the inner life of any one who

58:59

made. And I wanna see what they weren't smiling and

59:01

some Jackass would be like, we're just chill. Yeah.

59:03

You get called out. Yeah.

59:05

Screaming it again, you probably get pushed to the ground

59:07

if you refused to smile. One

59:09

punk who was only nine when he was put through

59:11

the plane nine years old, He

59:13

said that he was forced to run two miles

59:15

as a punishment, but ran at a breast less

59:17

than a quarter of the way in. By his memory,

59:19

he was shattered out, punched, and kicked in

59:22

the butt, by a punk squad coordinator.

59:24

They call the

59:24

coordinators. They call them Ramrods. Yeah.

59:27

The Ramrods. Well, that is not even

59:29

a euphemism. Well, it's

59:31

only weird name. Ramrod.

59:33

Ramrod. Yeah. And of course, as soon as corporal

59:35

punishment and physical intimidation was used

59:37

on the punk squad with the kids, It

59:40

slowly seeped into the rest of the community.

59:42

It was a slippery slope. And that's where

59:44

things started going very wrong. We're

59:46

for Senate and It's a multilevel marketing

59:48

scheme, but just with violence. Just with

59:51

violence. Now, when began admitting

59:53

so called squares into the program, things

59:55

became more cult like. And the adult

59:57

members of Synanon began subjecting their

1:00:00

children, sometimes as young as three years

1:00:02

old to the

1:00:03

game. What? Now in the early days Oh,

1:00:05

wait. Hold on a second. What the fuck could

1:00:07

a three year old be accused of? I

1:00:09

don't Literally, what does a three year

1:00:11

old do that's purposely wrong? It's

1:00:14

it's really difficult to kinda like It's

1:00:16

it's weird because in some ways, they

1:00:18

treated kids like they we talked

1:00:20

about this in the last episode, but something

1:00:23

about them not being people. Right? Like,

1:00:25

these little robots, there's these things that we can

1:00:27

just make them and break them and we do whatever it is that

1:00:29

we want with them in that that a three year old

1:00:32

Like, it does not. We just don't the no

1:00:34

leaving no room for the fact that these brains

1:00:36

develop. Yeah. And that they are changing. And

1:00:38

then the sea of, like, hormones, all these bodies,

1:00:40

like, these things are happening in. You're free.

1:00:42

You just started. It's very difficult

1:00:44

to have a lot of baggage in -- Right. -- and

1:00:46

if you do, a lot of is because you've already

1:00:49

been a soldier for two years, like, in

1:00:51

some other countries. Yeah. Right? Which is very

1:00:53

difficult. I know the helmet's that

1:00:55

small. Oh, I've seen baby soldiers. Yes.

1:00:58

In the early days of the squares, the early seventies,

1:01:00

children of Synanon members reported more

1:01:02

or less positive experiences with the game

1:01:04

when it was complicated. Basically, you took your

1:01:06

time with it. 518 in later years, when

1:01:08

things got little looser, children

1:01:10

found it traumatizing. And this was the

1:01:12

game being led by fucking experts. When

1:01:15

interviewed as adults, many of these people

1:01:17

said that children were nowhere near the appropriate

1:01:20

level of maturity for the game. And

1:01:22

most of them incurred emotional damage

1:01:24

because they couldn't play it correctly. It's

1:01:26

like asking a ten year old who usually

1:01:28

only plays Fortnite to be dark

1:01:30

souls. And when they can't do it, you call them dirty

1:01:32

cock sucker. Actually, I think in that way,

1:01:34

you might be right. I think that it's because you should

1:01:36

force the child to understand that Video

1:01:38

games are important. Yeah. And then they need to get their

1:01:40

shit together. Right. But you know because now, video games

1:01:42

are money. You don't be a professional video game player.

1:01:45

So you said there you one day, you said that

1:01:47

we'll have our stop the children. And you'll look down

1:01:49

at them, and you'll force them to

1:01:50

run. Dark souls like -- Yeah. No.

1:01:53

No. No. -- do a cedar on the other side.

1:01:55

You good at that.

1:01:56

Not to don't tell him that you just run past the

1:01:58

asylum demon the first time. Don't tell him that.

1:02:00

No. Because if it see if that little fucker

1:02:02

can beat the asylum demon with the broken sword.

1:02:04

Beat you him. Fuck him. Fuck

1:02:06

Okay.

1:02:06

These games are too hard these days. I'm

1:02:08

trying to play callisto protocol, man. I I'm playing

1:02:11

it on minimum security

1:02:12

and can't play it in them done though. No. I know. Why

1:02:14

not too hard. Go back to play some mega man. Then

1:02:16

you see I don't want to play a mega man. Also, was

1:02:18

he woman? Yeah. Which

1:02:21

was the

1:02:21

woman? Metro. You take

1:02:22

it Sam with the rat. Man, Metro. It's It's Metro.

1:02:25

No. Kids need to be reading it down.

1:02:27

It's a motorcycle.

1:02:32

Well, speaking of kids, Synanon also

1:02:34

had a fair amount of child abuse accusations.

1:02:37

Not sexual, but physical. Yeah. It seems

1:02:39

like it. Yeah. It's like what a fifty year old runaway

1:02:41

in court that she'd been forced to clean up

1:02:43

pigment ore with carrot sticks as

1:02:45

a disciplinary

1:02:46

measure. Okay. Yep. Obviously, we're gonna meet

1:02:48

in that in twenty thirties. Up. Yeah. That's

1:02:51

gonna be a luxury. Oh, people newer with

1:02:53

carat stinks. What kind of animal

1:02:55

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There's no save, like simply

1:03:59

save. Now, as far as the game

1:04:01

itself went, it too took on a different

1:04:04

structure in the seventies, where before

1:04:06

anyone could say anything in the game and

1:04:08

not be

1:04:08

punished, that was sort of the point of it You

1:04:10

could now be disciplined for what you said

1:04:12

in the game. Is this why? You tell the truth that

1:04:15

the whole point is, again, is starting to create

1:04:17

this system, just like it's eat your

1:04:19

own tail system where no matter what, you're

1:04:21

guilty and you're guilty and you're guilty. So

1:04:23

you're forced to be in you're forced You're

1:04:25

forced to

1:04:26

like, no, you haven't changed yet. You're not done

1:04:28

yet. You were not done. Yeah. And because

1:04:30

you could be disciplined outside of the

1:04:32

game for things that you said in the game, players

1:04:35

stopped being

1:04:35

honest, and the entire the therapeutic

1:04:37

benefits of the game were completely lost. The whole

1:04:40

thing fell apart from here. And

1:04:42

Chuck Diedrick also began recording game

1:04:44

sessions and sending on meetings

1:04:46

with the supposed idea that it would make

1:04:48

everything open to everyone. In reality,

1:04:51

it gave Chuck Dedrick the ability to keep

1:04:53

tabs on what everyone was saying and

1:04:55

doing. Right. And it was a further bad idea

1:04:57

because those game sessions and meetings would

1:04:59

later be used in court in various

1:05:02

attempted murder trials.

1:05:04

Oh, it's like he's collecting evidence.

1:05:07

Well, he did it. Accidentally

1:05:09

at first and then realized that he can use it

1:05:11

against everyone's another way to keep everybody

1:05:14

in --

1:05:14

Yeah. -- leverage, but it was -- Compromat.

1:05:17

518 it was also nearly impossible to understand

1:05:19

the context of everything being said in those recorded

1:05:22

games because the game itself had

1:05:24

become so busy and varied.

1:05:26

It had become both more complicated

1:05:29

and simplified at the same time because

1:05:31

there were different kinds of

1:05:32

games. So it sounds like everyone just made it up

1:05:34

themselves, which makes it extremely complicated. Yes.

1:05:36

Again, you're just everybody's everybody's

1:05:39

run and train on it. I'm

1:05:42

sorry. We just think about the story of the one

1:05:44

cop that was calling all the

1:05:45

dude. The cop that was fucking all the other

1:05:47

cops inside of the station

1:05:48

station station station station. The cop blowback. Yeah.

1:05:51

You know about this, Ben. Right? I don't. Have you learned

1:05:53

about this? Have you

1:05:55

seen this? Have you learned about this? No. No. This is

1:05:57

one of the stories that must have fallen through my

1:06:00

throw us in a few this

1:06:01

week. No. You like it. I love

1:06:03

it. It's it's Cottblobank.

1:06:04

I don't know how I missed it. It totally do

1:06:06

all day. The Synanon

1:06:08

basically had four stages of development.

1:06:11

The first and second stage from nineteen fifty

1:06:13

eight till nineteen sixty eight, that was focused

1:06:15

on the voluntary rehabilitation of alcoholics

1:06:17

and drug addicts. It was there solely

1:06:20

as a therapeutic community that made a little

1:06:22

bit of

1:06:22

money. I mean, you made money, but didn't little bit money. Oh,

1:06:24

do you need a little cash to keep it going? Listen,

1:06:26

you would create a propertory to your system.

1:06:28

Mhmm. Okay. Not a better with mypertory system.

1:06:30

Okay. Mommy, mommy. Are you are you trying

1:06:32

to come

1:06:33

in? Don't let me put mypertory to steal my support money?

1:06:35

I'm flying with it. It was well worth it. I got

1:06:37

better. Okay. The third stage that

1:06:39

lasted from nineteen sixty nine till nineteen

1:06:41

seventy five That was focused on building

1:06:44

a social movement to create a

1:06:46

utopia society. That's

1:06:48

gonna be great. That's gonna totally work out.

1:06:50

Yeah. And that's in a time when many hocks we're

1:06:52

trying to do the same. This is when they expanded

1:06:54

it out to the squares. When they expanded it out

1:06:56

to the

1:06:57

squares, they made a little bit more money. You mean,

1:06:59

it fell me. You can be mad at me. Because I'm

1:07:01

bringing in a bunch of extra people past my

1:07:03

proprietary system. Yes, maybe. I make

1:07:05

a little money. I make a little money.

1:07:07

That's my businessman who was thrown inside I mean,

1:07:09

you're gonna be mad. Now I gotta do certain

1:07:12

things. I gotta make certain choices because these

1:07:14

are rather so we look at financial stability here.

1:07:16

That's all you gotta do. Yeah. Yeah. That's it.

1:07:18

518 the fourth stage that began in nineteen

1:07:20

seventy five and lasted until Synanon disintegrated

1:07:23

in the late eighties, that was when they

1:07:25

got greedy and began to self identify

1:07:28

as a religion. Oh, yeah. That

1:07:30

eventually became a full scale charismatic

1:07:32

dictatorship run by Chuck

1:07:35

Diedrich.

1:07:35

Amen because he realized, hey,

1:07:38

if we center it, they did it the old. They they

1:07:40

did it. They came to the Elrond idea. Mhmm.

1:07:42

All the way, the backwards way. So the savior

1:07:45

the savior of the world is a dude named Chuck.

1:07:47

Oh, yeah. Buddy. Well, Chuck, he doesn't

1:07:49

need a whole head. Well, he's It

1:07:52

is a half headed dude named Chuck. Yeah.

1:07:55

Yeah. But that's actually the thing about

1:07:57

it is that it's a religion, not a religion. You

1:07:59

know, it's like

1:08:00

There's no response to the IRS. It

1:08:02

is very much a religious. Yeah. Yeah.

1:08:04

They've been sitting on because that's that was their

1:08:06

kind of joke. It's like, Well, who's

1:08:08

God then?

1:08:09

Oh, I don't know. No. Let's

1:08:11

speak Chuck. Yeah.

1:08:14

Yeah. 518 yeah, it does it does become

1:08:16

Chuck becomes like god like,

1:08:18

but not god

1:08:19

god. He's got s. God

1:08:22

s. s.

1:08:22

Yeah. He's

1:08:23

like he's like, you don't wanna get them all Santa.

1:08:25

Yeah. Hey, Santa. The main Santa.

1:08:28

No. It's like, I'm I'm

1:08:30

one of the I'm one of the I'm one of the god's

1:08:32

helper. It's like it's like that representative, the

1:08:34

guy George Santos, who lied about his entire

1:08:36

life. He's currently in office, and hopefully not for much

1:08:38

longer. No. I he he claimed that was

1:08:41

Jewish. And then he said, no. No. No. I said, I was

1:08:43

Jew, you is. And

1:08:45

he likes he watches Woody Allen Moop. doesn't

1:08:47

know what I mean. That just sounds like a review

1:08:50

in a theater and for website. If

1:08:52

you ish. Yeah. Does

1:08:54

he look like a man that used to be a

1:08:56

haunted clock? Yeah. But he looks like

1:08:58

he was magically changed from being

1:09:00

a fat little table block to being a

1:09:02

guy. I agree. There's something wrong with him. That's

1:09:04

for sure. Who really is. once the dictatorship

1:09:06

came and sent it on, So too

1:09:09

did the violence and sexual weirdness

1:09:11

that seems to be a specifically Californian

1:09:14

cult

1:09:14

phenomenon. It's the sunshine. It's Yeah.

1:09:16

Because everyone's always with the sex and violence

1:09:18

out

1:09:18

here. I mean, every time I see a moment, I do see titties.

1:09:21

Yeah. No. That's my problem.

1:09:23

Scared about it. Look

1:09:27

at the foot on that yellow point. He's still

1:09:29

out in the middle of the

1:09:30

bush. He's holding on the item

1:09:32

out licking me like Marnie Walker.

1:09:36

Marnie Walker. Marnie Walker. Okay.

1:09:37

The sex I get, the the landscape makes you horny.

1:09:39

Well, but what about the violence? I

1:09:41

think he's lonely. Not a violence. I'm

1:09:43

good on

1:09:43

violence. I don't have any. Nope. I don't

1:09:45

see any violence. No.

1:09:47

Where's the violence? Where is the violence?

1:09:49

Honestly, if you do believe the

1:09:50

Californian cults are among the most

1:09:52

violent -- Oh, when it comes to that

1:09:54

-- Yeah. Yeah. -- but where did that's our brand? But

1:09:56

I see the sex comes okay. You're saying

1:09:58

that the sex comes from the landscape being horny. It's

1:10:00

a horny landscape. It is. And the violence

1:10:02

comes from TV. Which

1:10:05

we also mean. We're in

1:10:06

California. Yeah. It comes back comes back

1:10:08

around. I see what you mean. Absolutely. Now, Synanon

1:10:11

made a very concerted effort to become a

1:10:13

religious and they did so for practical reasons.

1:10:15

Namely, the federal government recognized them

1:10:17

as a religion in nineteen seventy four. No

1:10:20

taxes. Listen guys. And I'm saying this

1:10:22

to our listeners right now. You look at me. Look at me.

1:10:24

Dend the eyes, and you know for a fact. Right? I'm

1:10:27

I'm good for it. Right? But when we

1:10:29

start this, if you do happen to see a thing where

1:10:31

they say last podcast that works at religion, right, I'm

1:10:33

gonna need all y'all to just

1:10:36

Roll with it. No. The box says yes. Just

1:10:38

roll with it because, no. Listen. We're gonna give kickbacks

1:10:40

to you. Because guess what I get to do for you. If

1:10:42

when we're a religion, guess what you get to be forgiven.

1:10:45

For free. Done. Walk out

1:10:48

soon as we go. Just listen. You're cool

1:10:50

with me. Whatever you've done, I mean, certain things

1:10:52

I won't I can't. We can't forgive everybody.

1:10:55

Forgive and God. You know what's on you? Don't tell

1:10:57

me about those. Boom. Tell me

1:10:59

all the things you want. I forgive you. You're done.

1:11:01

It'll be completed. You're fixed. Yeah.

1:11:04

Two on the nose. Two on the nose. What do you mean?

1:11:06

Well, you just said that publicly. No. No. No. No.

1:11:08

No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. I think the government's gonna be

1:11:10

like, oh, they're gambinos. No. No. No. No. No. No. I'm

1:11:12

gonna understand that this is a part of my awakening

1:11:15

period. The great

1:11:16

awakening. No. This is gonna go great.

1:11:19

Well, additionally, being religion, that meant

1:11:21

that they didn't have to be licensed. Oh.

1:11:23

They got a lot more cool. These

1:11:26

last regulations. No tax boxes.

1:11:28

Even faker bosses, like, from

1:11:30

just being, like, there is no God to Chuck's

1:11:32

God. It's just like, wow. You can

1:11:34

love them a

1:11:34

benefit. I love the government recognizes

1:11:37

magic as a reason not to get to access.

1:11:41

Oh, that's fantastic. Broganza's

1:11:44

Yeah. But perhaps most importantly,

1:11:46

being a religion meant the was

1:11:48

forever. It would eliminate questions like

1:11:51

when does a person graduate from synod because

1:11:54

Nobody graduates a religion. When do

1:11:56

you graduate Catholicism?

1:11:57

They must say fuck you. Like, come the

1:11:59

pope. You fucking did it. Yeah.

1:12:01

I guess I guess you could technically you do graduate

1:12:04

Buddhism eventually when you leave the wheel of Karma.

1:12:06

That is

1:12:06

great. You do graduate Buddhism. But does anybody?

1:12:09

518 anyway I wanna see some proof. don't

1:12:11

know. Okay? Show me people if you're light

1:12:13

mineral. Send me a postcard from

1:12:15

the Netherlands. They would have to do that. Because they're

1:12:17

enlightened, and then I care if you agree or not. That's what's

1:12:19

maddening about Buddhism because they'd be like,

1:12:21

oh, I know you don't care. But you do care. You're wearing

1:12:23

you're wearing it

1:12:24

now. You just handed me the gold card and you're making me

1:12:26

give you ten I

1:12:27

don't know. By the way, it gets punitive. I think

1:12:30

you're thinking of moonies. No. Is that moonies? I think

1:12:32

it's moonies. Wouldn't when they think when they hand you the car

1:12:34

purchase for good luck, and then when you go to take

1:12:35

it, they pull it back gonna, like, give me money. We're

1:12:38

just gonna say that whatever you're saying is

1:12:40

wrong. Yeah. We're just gonna

1:12:41

cover that bad. I don't know what

1:12:43

baseball cover all these players. Oh,

1:12:44

man. We're all we're we're here together. Me

1:12:46

and you Yes. When does my does my I'm

1:12:48

sorry for everything run out? When I

1:12:51

said That's never runs

1:12:51

out. I said I'm sorry. Perfect. I don't have to renew that.

1:12:54

Right? You do. Yeah. You you have to yes.

1:12:56

It's fine. But what Interesting. Think about

1:12:58

it, like, every six months. Like, you know when you have a

1:13:00

medication that you have to be on forever and, like, once a

1:13:02

month, they have to, like, We Your reevaluate.

1:13:05

Reevaluate. Yeah. So, like, once a year,

1:13:07

yes, you do. You can get it done for the whole year right

1:13:09

now

1:13:09

if you want. I'm sorry for everything. That's a great

1:13:11

year. See in twenty twenty four. Alright. Great. Boom.

1:13:13

It is twenty twenty three. Right? Sure. Okay.

1:13:15

Cool. Yes. And, well, around the

1:13:17

time that Synanon started calling themselves

1:13:19

a religion, shit started getting weird,

1:13:21

as it always does. Two years

1:13:24

after they got their tax exempt status,

1:13:26

Synanon instituted a policy that members

1:13:28

would no longer have children because the world

1:13:30

was overpopulated. Yeah. Now

1:13:32

no children wasn't a hard rule. 518

1:13:35

women were coerced into having abortions

1:13:37

more than a couple of

1:13:38

times. But eventually, Cinema

1:13:40

put the onus of no kids onto

1:13:42

the men. Which,

1:13:43

actually, I find 518. Weirdly.

1:13:46

Refresh. It is refreshing.

1:13:48

It's a time. It's a great way to get to come

1:13:50

on titties. Phases. But Come come come

1:13:52

come come come come come come come everywhere

1:13:54

else. Everywhere else. Yeah. Well, I mean,

1:13:56

it got rough. Yeah. Because in nineteen

1:13:58

seventy seven, Synanon required that all

1:14:00

members over the age of eighteen who had been

1:14:02

in Synchrony for over five

1:14:03

years, everyone's gotta give a second.

1:14:05

It's a vasectomy. You get vasectomy.

1:14:08

Whoa. You get a vasectomy. Yeah. It's

1:14:10

like being on Oprah. It's

1:14:12

reversible. Yeah. And these vasectomies

1:14:14

were performed collectively at so called

1:14:17

clipping

1:14:18

parties.

1:14:18

I'm gonna need a doctor. Yay. Yay. Yay.

1:14:20

Yay. Yay.

1:14:22

Yay. Over two hundred and fifty men participated

1:14:24

in these clipping parties. And of people, you know,

1:14:26

immediately ask, you know, like, what do you bring to a

1:14:28

clipping party if you go to one? And I'll tell you what, you bring

1:14:31

ice. Ice. Oh, yeah.

1:14:33

Yeah. I sadly can't bring booze. No.

1:14:37

Oh, yeah. It's all sober. Even when I

1:14:39

go and get my I might do that, you

1:14:41

you can't show up drunk. Right? Like, does he even know

1:14:43

that? Yeah. Well, you don't want to I can't do one

1:14:45

fine know, like, alright, like, come out.

1:14:47

Like, do you want big

1:14:48

comments? Still come. Yes. You want,

1:14:51

like, come out. Live in Squibb.

1:14:53

Yeah. Right? Like, come a couple of live and quits or anything

1:14:55

like, whoa. Like, grandparents when he party real

1:14:57

quick and for you, but he died. Yeah. I think he'll die

1:14:59

though for because it's it's thin's your blood. Yeah.

1:15:01

You wanna be careful. You don't wanna have a you don't wanna be

1:15:04

super hammered during surgery. Okay. Cool.

1:15:06

Cool. Cool. I'm not super Let's check your hammer. Because

1:15:08

I'm that kissable. Yeah. Absolutely.

1:15:11

Now, this naturally led

1:15:13

to a mass exodus of members. Not

1:15:15

everyone wanted to get clipped. Yeah. I could

1:15:17

see that. One member said, quote, hey,

1:15:20

I'll give you my life check 518 not my

1:15:22

balls.

1:15:25

That's how much men love their balls. Out.

1:15:27

I will die. 518 as you touch my nuts,

1:15:30

like, that's my

1:15:30

comp. Yeah. But things got weird

1:15:32

again in April of nineteen seventy seven.

1:15:34

When Chuck Dedrick's wife, Betty, died

1:15:37

of lung cancer at the age of fifty

1:15:38

five. One day, we'll do a an

1:15:40

Oscar style memoriam to all

1:15:43

of the wives of cult leaders that died,

1:15:45

that allowed the cult then spin

1:15:47

wildly out of control. It is having

1:15:50

time and time again. Yeah. always have

1:15:52

some form of stabilizing influence

1:15:54

that vaguely keeps them in pocket

1:15:57

for a certain period of

1:15:58

time. And then as soon as that's gone, it's just like,

1:16:00

Alright.

1:16:01

We can find it. Glenriche can play.

1:16:04

Well, look at look what happened with George Lucas.

1:16:06

If he stood at would have stayed married, we never would have

1:16:08

had jar jar Banks. Yeah. His wife

1:16:10

created Star Wars. Yeah. Well, she did the edits

1:16:13

and all the stuff in the States. And all the things that mattered -- Yeah. -- because

1:16:15

I

1:16:15

mean, what's the one that didn't have her edited and

1:16:17

you're like, why is that there? Yeah. It's very Yeah.

1:16:19

She said give the wookie hair. Don't make the wookie

1:16:21

a space owl. Man,

1:16:24

he's stupid.

1:16:25

Man, just Lucas was just god.

1:16:27

It just shows that all you have to do is be accidentally

1:16:30

right. One Why is it?

1:16:32

That's why Warren Buffett says, as you said about billionaires,

1:16:34

she's like, don't really gotta make three good decisions

1:16:36

a year. And it's just like, what does that mean? He

1:16:39

drinks Coke, alcohol up just like I I don't

1:16:41

think

1:16:42

does, I think, is a little walk. Now

1:16:43

he drinks coffee. He lives

1:16:45

at a house. It's just a house. Just like a

1:16:47

They don't understand. Now so respected

1:16:49

was sitting on. That the mayor of Los

1:16:51

Angeles proclaimed a betti daedric

1:16:54

day to recognize her work in

1:16:56

drug rehabilitation when she died. And condolences

1:16:59

were sent by Jimmy and Roslin

1:17:01

Carter who just can't catch a break

1:17:03

when it comes to their association.

1:17:04

Yeah. Jimmy just he had a feel free to everybody.

1:17:07

Yep. Ross Leonard tweeted, shotwin

1:17:09

Lacey.

1:17:10

Oh, yeah. Jim

1:17:10

Jones. Jim Jones and the leader of Synanon.

1:17:13

Maybe she wasn't the best judge of character. Oh,

1:17:15

you know what? I'm just gonna blame and

1:17:17

I don't mean this because he's doing it. It seemed

1:17:19

like the Carter whole administration. A

1:17:22

lot of weird shit happened during that

1:17:24

time

1:17:24

period. There was it was

1:17:26

at very the late seventies were an odd

1:17:28

time to be in America. It

1:17:29

feels kind of similar now. Yeah.

1:17:31

Yeah. It actually does. Ah, do

1:17:33

you feel the malaise? Like, do you feel

1:17:35

the malaise? I

1:17:36

do. We have a

1:17:36

skeleton president. Yeah. We Jimmy

1:17:39

Carter, very But Jimmy Carter was young then.

1:17:41

Yeah. Yeah.

1:17:42

And then But he's still

1:17:44

kind of a skeleton peanut man. No.

1:17:46

It's a thing. We had a full head of hair.

1:17:48

But he was still skeletal. She was

1:17:50

just in shape. Oh,

1:17:53

yeah. Yeah. I mean, but you guys called me skeleton.

1:17:55

You guys had called me a skeleton since I was fucking

1:17:57

thirty two. You also like bones

1:18:00

more than us. Yeah.

1:18:00

It's more of a bone thing. Is it more of a bone

1:18:02

thing? I would say that is you saw bone. Like, our

1:18:04

first gift to patron was you sawing bones.

1:18:07

Yeah. Like Henry and I didn't be, like, give them bones.

1:18:09

You were like, I got a good idea. You got all these bones.

1:18:11

All these bones. And then you would complain about how it

1:18:13

was getting in your lungs. You'd be like, stop

1:18:15

saw on the bones, man. God saw the bones. They're gonna

1:18:17

stop, listen if they don't get the bones. think you

1:18:20

I think it was illegal --

1:18:21

Yeah. -- as well. Well, after the mail Where

1:18:23

I was doing it was also illegal. Oh,

1:18:25

no. That helped you. All you have to do is don't worry. All

1:18:27

you have to do is pay off the health inspector.

1:18:30

That nice thing you just

1:18:31

say, oh, wow. Well, it's no longer

1:18:33

in business. Yeah.

1:18:34

Didn't nothing hadn't felt right since, like, about

1:18:36

two thousand fifteen or so. He's been weird

1:18:38

yet. Things

1:18:39

have been real odd.

1:18:40

Yeah, man. No. It's a yeah. At January twenty

1:18:42

sixteen, that's about right before Bowie died.

1:18:44

Yeah. Yeah. And then after a lot of people blame

1:18:46

him. It's

1:18:46

been real weird

1:18:47

since then. yeah. I'm just kinda I'm used to it

1:18:49

now, I guess. Yeah. Yeah. She's becoming it is now normal

1:18:51

technically because it's been seven

1:18:53

years. Yeah.

1:18:53

Alright. People, we just passed his

1:18:55

his the anniversary of his death just a couple of days

1:18:57

ago. Jesus Christ. Gigi Stargardt. Yeah.

1:18:59

Well, you're gonna live longer than that because next

1:19:02

week you're forty. Yeah. 518

1:19:04

was like in the seventies. Yeah. I'm saying.

1:19:07

Yeah. But he's longer in January.

1:19:09

Yeah. He's trying to be encouraging.

1:19:11

Oh. Yeah. Oh, yeah. Well Yeah. I'm sorry.

1:19:13

Man, man.

1:19:16

As for Chuck, though, his wife, Betty,

1:19:18

much like Marshall Applewhite's partner, Bonnie

1:19:20

Nettles, she was the one who kept him from

1:19:22

doing anything too crazy or too

1:19:24

sexual. Although she was on board with the

1:19:26

vasectomies.

1:19:27

No. Every woman, she just wanted not to

1:19:29

get pregnant from fucking all the cult members. Yeah.

1:19:31

But after Betty died, both the violence

1:19:34

and the weirdness at Synanon escalated

1:19:36

once again. At the age of sixty

1:19:38

four, two months after Betty's death,

1:19:40

Daedric decided to remarry. He

1:19:42

told reporters

1:19:43

quote,

1:19:43

what is the direct quote? I sent up a

1:19:46

flyer like any monarch

1:19:48

of old times would have done. I

1:19:50

let out the word. But I

1:19:52

was available. Synanon.

1:19:56

No. Scheme, Carmen, won't on their seawater.

1:19:58

What was underneath the belly? It's just

1:20:00

what they found.

1:20:01

Mhmm. It can. It'll set

1:20:03

a bit above.

1:20:05

Yeah. They'll level four feet above that.

1:20:07

Smarter's hathead. That would

1:20:09

have met your damn

1:20:11

life. Well, indeed, so

1:20:13

you think you're a king, kind of monarch then

1:20:15

you kind of

1:20:17

And you Who are

1:20:19

you a king of?

1:20:20

I'm a king of this belt. Yeah.

1:20:22

I don't kiss the bell. Alright. I

1:20:24

don't kiss the bell. King of this bell.

1:20:27

I like that. Yeah. Girl.

1:20:30

That's why I feel about all my little mama clothes. I think

1:20:32

out of all the cult leaders, Jim Jones, would have

1:20:34

the bet Oh. Charles Manson

1:20:37

would have the best belt buckle. I

1:20:39

could see who is basically belt a woman

1:20:41

was very lucky him having a belt. But just one

1:20:43

day, she'd be like, hey,

1:20:44

man. Look at my belt button. I always see that. But that's

1:20:46

the thing is that I think it's it's that

1:20:48

thing, like, you know how most porn stars are like,

1:20:50

tiny, and that's why the dicks look so

1:20:52

big. Exactly. That's the bet would be like Charles Men's

1:20:54

because he's so tiny. The belt buckle's gonna look

1:20:56

a lot bigger. That's

1:20:57

optics or everything. Optics or everything. Mhmm.

1:21:00

Well, six women applied to become

1:21:02

Dietrich's wife -- Wow. -- Applied. But

1:21:04

Chuck eventually settled on a thirty one

1:21:06

year old teacher at one of Synanon schools

1:21:09

woman named Ginni Shoren. Pretty

1:21:11

soon after they got married though, Diedrich

1:21:14

declared that marriage should no

1:21:16

longer be a permanent institution.

1:21:19

remember. He is the monarch of

1:21:21

that boat dude because he understood.

1:21:23

He got married. Initially, he's

1:21:24

like, this is the thing about getting

1:21:26

married. True. Is it a thing calling it

1:21:28

institution for a reason. So I say,

1:21:30

well, let them out, let them out, let out, let them

1:21:32

out, let them out, the patients. Institutions

1:21:34

have doors, I suppose. Mhmm. He told

1:21:37

every married couple that they

1:21:39

had to split up and form

1:21:41

new three year long love matches

1:21:43

with new partners plugged from the Synanon

1:21:46

pool.

1:21:46

It's just like going fucking full

1:21:49

crazy. It's really interesting again.

1:21:51

It's just everyone. It's just

1:21:54

they all without even knowing

1:21:56

that all these guys other cult leaders

1:21:58

do this, where he they all have the same relevatory,

1:22:00

like, we need to fuck each other's

1:22:02

wives. Why? Why?

1:22:05

It's more that I need to fuck

1:22:07

all your wives. But at least he spread

1:22:09

the love.

1:22:10

Yeah. I don't know. Now, many

1:22:12

of these couples had gotten married within

1:22:14

Synanon in mass marriage ceremonies,

1:22:16

and they'd actually were romantic. Yes. And

1:22:18

they'd actually committed themselves not only to

1:22:20

each other, but to Synanon on itself

1:22:23

in their vows. During these

1:22:25

ceremonies, men wore overalls and

1:22:27

dress shirts while women wore

1:22:30

ankle lengths granny dresses and

1:22:32

broad brim hats. Actually,

1:22:35

overalls were sort of the sitting

1:22:37

on

1:22:38

uniform because Chuck Diedrich,

1:22:40

one day he's one of those guys that just decided,

1:22:42

I just wanna wear overall every day for the rest

1:22:44

of my lives. He can't do that. I'm wearing sweatpants.

1:22:46

I don't ask you guys to wear the same. So

1:22:49

basically, he's like, you bitches look

1:22:51

like Diane Keaton. You look

1:22:53

like someone named Elmer. Yes. He

1:22:56

because, again, he had a real overall's

1:22:58

body. Yeah. Now you mind to say, what is that? Like,

1:23:01

if you've seen magazines, a man in overalls

1:23:03

a lot times will 518. He's much a drop and he's

1:23:05

gonna show as far as little suspender. Yeah.

1:23:07

But guess what most people in overalls

1:23:09

look like. Porky pig.

1:23:11

Yeah. And that's because you look like Yeah.

1:23:14

Because you wear oh, girl. So your pants don't fall

1:23:16

down anymore. You are now

1:23:18

one quick access to shit and

1:23:20

you're sick of dealing with the hassle

1:23:22

of all these tight fitting belts and

1:23:23

pants. Right. Yeah. And

1:23:26

also they all get married dress like that. And

1:23:28

we got married by a reverend who was

1:23:30

riding a Shetland pony.

1:23:35

Then you have the majesty of a horse 518 not worrying

1:23:37

about the emasculating lack

1:23:39

of height. And you receive standing next to

1:23:41

him. He's the bad guy from Shrek.

1:23:45

Since many of these people had been married

1:23:47

to and within two

1:23:49

hundred and thirty couples agreed to

1:23:51

Chuck Switcheroo Plan. So

1:23:53

four hundred and sixty legally married

1:23:55

people got divorces and hooked up with

1:23:58

someone new.

1:23:58

Well, if you imagine at some point there's somebody

1:24:00

who's just like, yes. Flinger. Yes. Oh, yeah.

1:24:02

Excuse me. Yes. I'm

1:24:04

sure, but I'm sure there's a lot of people who weren't like

1:24:06

that. Oh, yeah. Who got excluded? Chuck's

1:24:08

brother, he didn't have to do it. Everyone else had to do

1:24:10

it,

1:24:10

but your brother got an exclusion. So I could kinda

1:24:12

lick my wife. Yeah. Nick is good goose here.

1:24:14

Alright. You fucking doob. Alright.

1:24:18

518 since this is another weird ass request,

1:24:20

Synanon had another huge drop in

1:24:22

membership, and they lost three hundred

1:24:24

members in nineteen seventy seven alone.

1:24:26

They actually lost more people from the

1:24:28

marriage thing than they did from the vasectomy

1:24:30

thing. I could see that almost. Damn. Then

1:24:33

right around the same time that shit got weird,

1:24:35

shit also started getting violent.

1:24:37

Yeah. See, a few years before, sitting

1:24:39

on it started stockpiling deadly weapons.

1:24:42

It's the stock Pilot. It's a stockpile.

1:24:44

They got fifty seven shotguns,

1:24:46

twenty four coal forty fives, and

1:24:49

three hundred thousand rounds of

1:24:51

ammunition. Now this transition like,

1:24:53

we're doing a little bit of, like, yada yada

1:24:55

yada yada yada yada because it's very difficult

1:24:57

to put in. This is a there's a lot of complicated

1:24:59

shit happened during this time period. But

1:25:01

it's just important for you to

1:25:03

know that the shift actually did happen

1:25:05

fairly quickly Yeah. But Why did

1:25:08

the ramp up happen? But it started just,

1:25:10

like, compounding. feel very exponential.

1:25:12

Like, if it was once one thing started happening, the next

1:25:14

thing started spilling the next and he was

1:25:17

ramping up this talking points because everyone's

1:25:19

living in a

1:25:19

commune. And so he's talking endlessly

1:25:22

all

1:25:22

multiple communes. Multiple communes. Multiple

1:25:24

communes. And they're playing in their recordings of

1:25:26

his speeches. You're playing and stuff on all this thing.

1:25:28

He was on

1:25:28

his own radio station that he called it the wire,

1:25:31

because people could listen to it also. It

1:25:33

is. He would with you. I

1:25:36

literally start monologuing,

1:25:38

and the whole place is built for sounds. You're just

1:25:40

living in Chuck Diarritz head over.

1:25:43

He's he learned from Jim Jones in a way.

1:25:45

Again, I don't know if he did or if it's just game. Not

1:25:47

Jim

1:25:47

Jones as years later. I think that he's the

1:25:49

I feel like in a way that he's got follow-up. He's

1:25:51

the Carlosmanship. And it's

1:25:54

Jim Jones is still like the elite.

1:25:56

Right. Why did they feel they need to start

1:25:58

stockpiling weapons? Was the government coming

1:26:00

after

1:26:00

paranoia? It's paranoia. Yeah. And I and

1:26:03

I think it's also just a general, you

1:26:05

know, getting being plugged into the

1:26:06

decade, man. Like,

1:26:07

because, you know, shit gets real dark

1:26:09

starting in the early seventies. You know, they're kinda

1:26:12

caught up in this old utopianism type

1:26:13

thing, and it's not working out. And nothing's working

1:26:16

on -- No. What a utopia? -- in the utopia, you don't

1:26:18

need to stockpile weapons. No. Not normally. No.

1:26:20

The whole point of But it's about you you gotta defend

1:26:22

your utopia. No. I know because

1:26:24

it's not utopia. Yeah. But it's not bad because a bunch of

1:26:26

people are like, hey, you might have developed the system of

1:26:29

abuse in there. And I everything I hear coming

1:26:31

out of your little run. It sounds shadier and shadier

1:26:33

and shadier and then he's like, no.

1:26:35

They're be it's beginning the persecution complex.

1:26:37

They're gonna come shut us down because they

1:26:39

don't get our life

1:26:41

style. Well, I think it's fairly simple. You

1:26:43

know, that's saying if it smells like shit everywhere

1:26:45

you go, check your own shoe.

1:26:46

know, I I think Chuck Deidrick

1:26:49

was way second. What

1:26:51

I think that's absolutely Oh

1:26:53

my

1:26:53

god. It's like Jefferson said

1:26:56

that. Yes. Thomas Jefferson, I will do

1:26:58

that. If you're the type of person who says that

1:27:00

says everyone's an asshole. Everyone

1:27:02

sucks. You suck. You suck. You know, like, why why

1:27:04

is everybody always mad at me? It must

1:27:06

be their fault. It's like everybody wants asshole.

1:27:08

No. You're the asshole. Yeah. I think that's

1:27:10

what happened with Chuck Diedrich. Chuck Diedrich

1:27:12

had a way of antagonizing

1:27:14

everybody around him, especially

1:27:17

his neighbor. Well, because they said his issue

1:27:19

is truly was the fact that he forgot. He'd

1:27:21

spent so long in these Synanon groups. And

1:27:23

it forgot that other people don't talk like that.

1:27:25

Yeah. They don't curse in scream and yell

1:27:27

at people. And and, like, a quote unquote straight

1:27:30

shooter. And a lot of times, I find that when someone calls

1:27:32

themselves a straight shooter, again, they mean a

1:27:34

fucking insuffensible asshole. Mass of ass.

1:27:36

I did that. Where it's like, it's always

1:27:38

insulting people and talking all the shit. And so

1:27:40

his world is really closing

1:27:42

in. And he is becoming way more isolated. Because