0:05

This podcast is supported by Americans for Medical

0:07

Progress and was founded and created through the Michael

0:09

D Hare Fellowship , awarded annually

0:11

to support projects that inform and educate the public

0:13

about the critical role of animal research

0:16

in furthering medical progress . The

0:18

Fellowship honors the late Dr Michael Hare

0:20

, a renowned board-certified laboratory animal

0:22

veterinarian who dedicated his career to

0:24

scientific and medical advancements and who was deeply

0:26

committed to animal welfare and advocacy

0:28

. Hey

0:32

, everyone , welcome into the November edition

0:35

of the Labrat Chat NewsVide episodes . Thanks

0:38

for joining us today . And look at this we are back to

0:40

back months now doing NewsVide episodes

0:42

.

0:42

We did .

0:43

September or we did . No , we didn't do September , we did October

0:45

and now November . So

0:47

hopefully we'll be back on track doing this every month , like

0:50

we had set up last episode last

0:52

month , and keep bringing you these exciting

0:55

stories every single

0:57

month about things going on in the field

0:59

of animal research and just random animal

1:01

stories . Danielle has two stories

1:04

. I have two stories , Turns out we talked before

1:06

the episode . We're actually like an hour

1:08

into this recording . We're just now getting to actually

1:10

starting to record .

1:11

Yeah , we goofed off quite a bit . And I

1:13

will say so . I read my articles before we started this

1:15

and I just realized that I already forgot everything that

1:17

I read , so I'm reading them again now , while

1:19

you give the intro .

1:21

So you want me to . How long should I make the intro ?

1:23

You need like five , ten minutes .

1:27

So my two episodes and I mean usually

1:29

we'll do some like life update stuff I feel like that

1:31

much really happened in the last 30

1:33

days . I've just been working and

1:36

it's all boring and stuff nobody wants to hear about . So

1:39

, I don't have anything fun . My

1:42

wife and kids are having fun , and Alaina

1:44

going to the zoo and aquarium while

1:46

I'm stuck here .

1:48

You're a business owner now . Your life is tied to

1:50

.

1:50

Yeah .

1:51

Tied to work .

1:52

Yeah , except doing this podcast . I

1:54

feel like this podcast is kind of like a . I

1:56

think it's more of like a hobby than anything else . I

1:58

just enjoy it . Hopefully it comes out

2:00

, hopefully it shows when we do this we're

2:03

not here like no one's forcing us to do these

2:05

, we're just doing it every month , just

2:08

hopefully brings some people some enjoyment and

2:10

some and hopefully a little

2:12

bit of like learning material

2:15

, Something low ed , educating

2:17

Edgy Is that ?

2:19

the right word Educational .

2:21

There you go .

2:21

All right .

2:24

Sometimes we go home school and sometimes I really worry what

2:27

our kids are learning .

2:28

Well , yeah , and last month

2:30

we did the fun little giveaway on Instagram . We

2:32

got a lot of entries . It was super fun Picked

2:34

the winner , shipped off the prize

2:36

. I should probably check the tracking number . I imagine

2:39

that will be arriving .

2:40

Hopefully it already arrived this week , but

2:43

yeah , I'll maybe throw some more of those in if I find

2:45

one little . Yeah , I didn't win .

2:47

You didn't win an entrance , I was real disappointed . You

2:51

can't win if you don't play .

2:52

That's true . That's true , I

2:54

think my son . Right before I started recording

2:56

. My dogs were barking outside and

2:59

now she's like standing right next to me going nuts . I think

3:01

she can hear you through the headphones .

3:04

Oh .

3:04

And it's like strange or dangerous in here . For

3:07

sure , she doesn't know what to do . She won't leave me

3:09

alone . So there's like weird dog noises

3:11

next to me . Her tail keeps hitting

3:13

the table . I apologize , but

3:15

All right , it is what it is . So

3:19

my two articles are

3:22

I have one about muscle research

3:25

and how we can get faster results with

3:27

fewer laboratory animals , so kind of focusing

3:30

on the three Rs for that article

3:32

, which is always always good to

3:34

do . And then I have another one

3:36

about kind of rats imagine

3:38

and rats get to

3:41

play . Vr video games .

3:42

So I have that same article

3:45

, but I think it'll be cool

3:47

because it'll finally be that we've both read the article

3:49

and we can actually have a conversation about it . But

3:51

my other article is also muscle related

3:54

, but not the same one as you . It's

3:56

about immune cells helping

3:58

control muscle inflammation during

4:00

exercise .

4:02

Okay .

4:03

So we'll save our , our dual one for

4:06

last .

4:07

Yeah , like I said , we both read it , but clearly

4:09

you are reading it while

4:11

I'm talking about this first story .

4:14

Well , I've read it twice .

4:15

By the time we finished , okay , and

4:18

then I do have just a completely

4:21

bonkers research study just to briefly

4:23

mention at the end . Just

4:26

it just blows my mind that taxpayer

4:28

dollars go towards these sorts of things . All

4:31

right , I'll start off . So

4:33

my story about muscle

4:35

research just talks

4:37

about specifically how

4:39

they use mice . So mice are

4:41

a great model organism for

4:43

studying muscle

4:45

diseases and

4:47

these researchers at the university Basel

4:52

Basel is B-A-S-E-L

4:54

. Doesn't say where

4:56

that is . Doesn't sound like it's in the

4:59

United States , if it is .

5:02

Sorry , sorry but don't

5:04

.

5:04

I say that Basel , there must be basel

5:06

, huh or basel , but I don't know

5:08

. No help here .

5:10

No , I got nothing . Okay , if I knew where it was

5:12

from , I could turn on my accents and say oh

5:14

, it is basel , but I don't know if that's French

5:16

.

5:16

So Right , and it might be American

5:18

. And then ?

5:19

Then it's basel . No , I'm just kidding .

5:22

That's Louisiana .

5:24

Okay .

5:25

All right , except you said it way too fast , it's slow

5:27

but down oh basel . All

5:30

right . So , like I said , researchers use the

5:32

mouse as a model to study structure

5:35

and function of mainly skeletal

5:37

muscle , and so they can study different

5:39

neuromuscular diseases , aging

5:41

processes as we age , you

5:44

know , we lose a good amount of muscle

5:46

mass , and

5:48

so these researchers at the

5:51

University of Basel have

5:54

decided to find a way to reduce

5:57

the number of mice , because it takes a long time

5:59

. As you know , when you're doing

6:01

any like gene function studies with

6:03

mice , you know you have to like create like

6:05

generations of mice to knock out

6:07

those genes . Right , we've

6:09

all , if you've been in the lab over and worked with

6:11

mice or know anything about it . It's just

6:14

kind of like a process for you're knocking

6:16

in or knocking out different genes through

6:19

generations of mice , so to get

6:21

what you want . But now these researchers

6:23

, with the use of the CRISPR-Cas9

6:27

method , they

6:29

use a virus to introduce the so-called

6:31

like the Cas9 protein , which

6:34

can then get into the organism

6:36

and then into the nucleus , and

6:39

then it can actually change the DNA where

6:42

, specifically where they want it to , and

6:44

that changes that DNA will then allow

6:46

the

6:49

gene function to be altered

6:51

within the cell and then ultimately

6:53

within the mouse , so they can change

6:55

the gene function in a living animal

6:57

, instead of having to breed

6:59

more and change them through generation of mice

7:01

. And so the

7:04

researchers the first thing

7:06

they had to do was breed the mice with

7:08

that Cas9 protein that's on

7:10

the muscle fibers , but only

7:13

on the muscle fibers , because we don't they were

7:15

, we , I was not involved . They

7:17

didn't want to change any other cells

7:20

on the body , obviously . So they

7:23

did that . They bred it , they got the Cas9

7:25

protein right there on the muscle fiber

7:27

and then they could insert

7:30

their the virus , along

7:33

with whatever gene modifications they wanted

7:35

to make , and it would go straight

7:37

to those Cas9 spots on

7:39

the muscle , get into the cells , change

7:42

the genetic makeup of that

7:45

cell , and now those

7:48

animals can all be used to study different

7:50

gene modifications without having to be bred

7:53

over years and years .

7:55

And then they can study , does it say , if you then

7:57

bred those mice , would

7:59

their offspring have the same

8:01

genetics ?

8:03

It doesn't say I know that's so . That's one of the fears

8:05

about the CRISPR system and altering

8:07

genes is that if you alter them and

8:10

one like if you alter them and

8:12

the one mouse , that now their offspring

8:14

are going to be affected to it . Maybe you don't want it to you because

8:16

you're doing it for a research or testing purposes

8:19

that has a negative consequence , and

8:21

so I know that's one of like the fears

8:23

about the CRISPR Cas9

8:26

system . It's like generational

8:28

changes that you can't maybe get

8:30

back . So

8:32

it doesn't say and I'm sure there's

8:34

more research out there

8:37

on that and I'm sure they've they

8:39

they probably know the answer , but

8:41

it doesn't necessarily say

8:43

if those changes are . I think they can

8:45

keep breeding the Cas9 mice so

8:47

they can make the changes when

8:49

they want to with new mice

8:51

. I don't know if they can let

8:54

those changes affect their offspring or if they're

8:56

even breeding them after , so but

8:58

then they can just make those changes to the genes

9:01

and they can study those muscle

9:03

fibers and neuromuscular diseases

9:05

and they don't need a large number of mice to do it . So

9:08

I mean that's kind of cool . They can reduce , they

9:10

can still get what they need accomplished

9:13

. Generations of breeding and yeah

9:15

, and then we can get data faster and everything too . We're

9:17

not waiting for a

9:20

bunch of changes to happen . So yeah , all

9:22

right , but yeah , so that's it for that one

9:24

.

9:25

Well , I'll piggyback on that with my muscle one

9:27

. So a research group . And

9:30

again , where are they from ? I don't know

9:32

? Harvard , Harvard Medical

9:34

School .

9:35

See , I read this like an hour ago and I forgot

9:37

that is in the US . That is , yes , I

9:39

mean it's .

9:39

Harvard no .

9:41

Yeah , yeah , do your Boston accent

9:43

for that one , huh .

9:44

Harvard , it's

9:47

true , kind of so

9:49

the group in up in Harvard . They

9:52

did a research project involving mice

9:54

and exercise to try to figure

9:56

out why exercising you know people go to the gym

9:58

. They want to either get ripped or get lean or

10:00

you know you're working your muscles at the gym why

10:03

do you not have crazy damage to your

10:05

muscles and inflammation ? And you know , swollen

10:07

knees and pain ? Obviously

10:10

you have some muscle pain because you've broken down the muscle fibers

10:12

, but why is it not such severe muscle

10:14

damage ? So they found out that

10:16

we have the

10:19

cell group called regulatory T cells which

10:22

prevent excessive muscle inflammation

10:24

during and after physical activity

10:26

by suppressing and I'm reading this so it sounds

10:28

a little robotic by suppressing the production of

10:30

a pro-inflammatory messenger protein

10:33

or cytokine called IFNY

10:36

, and I don't know if I'm supposed to call that IFNY

10:38

or IFNI .

10:39

I like the IFNY .

10:40

Because IFNY is a little more fun . So I think I'm going to say it for

10:42

this article . So

10:45

by having the T

10:47

cell , the regulatory T cells , activate

10:49

, it suppresses the IFNY cytokine

10:52

cells .

10:53

Is it a Y or is it like the gamma , like

10:55

that ?

10:56

Oh , hmm . Well

10:58

, it looks like maybe it is the gamma . It

11:00

looks like a lowercase Y , but now that I'm questioning

11:03

that , I don't know how to say that

11:05

.

11:05

then it's like if you're on something gamma

11:07

. I think that's what IFN is

11:10

.

11:10

Why is Now IFN question

11:13

mark oh

11:15

it's the Insurance Federation of New York .

11:18

Gotcha , that's what it is . Yeah , interfere on

11:20

gamma , that's IFNY .

11:22

Okay , all right Cool .

11:24

I mean , stick with it me , you know .

11:27

No , because I literally had to zoom my eyeballs

11:29

in on this website and I guess it is a little gamma sign

11:31

. See , that's why we have a vet

11:34

as our co-host on this show . You can pronounce

11:36

things and determine things much quicker than I can

11:38

.

11:39

Not always . Not usually . Not usually

11:41

.

11:42

Well , I don't know that one either . But also

11:44

it shows that mice that don't have

11:46

the regulatory T cells so they can

11:48

either turn them off Again it's probably

11:50

a knock-in or a knock-out situation . They

11:53

create more of IFNY during

11:56

the exercise and having those higher cytokine

11:58

levels reduces the animal's ability to gain

12:00

physical endurance . They did this

12:02

with short-term and long-term experiments . The short-term

12:04

they were testing levels

12:07

, I think day one , three and seven , and then the long-term

12:09

ones , again , this involved

12:11

treadmills for the short-term , I think long-term , it said

12:13

that the mice had access to

12:15

a hamster wheel , mouse

12:18

wheel , whatever you want to call it , at

12:20

all times and they were tested at two , three

12:22

or four weeks . It's kind of a

12:24

long-term study because

12:26

maybe if we can figure out if the

12:28

T regulatory T cells

12:33

get turned off with aging

12:35

and you have age-related tissue damage , maybe

12:38

different therapies can target it to

12:40

help elderly

12:42

people don't stay ripped at the gym

12:44

, their

12:46

muscle just deflates what do you call it when your muscle is

12:48

just deteriorating . They're

12:51

looking at maybe the long-term of being able to help injuries

12:55

or elderly people to

12:57

maintain endurance and muscle tone

12:59

longer , if maybe something's getting turned

13:02

off in their system and a different therapy could turn it back

13:04

on .

13:05

I think you lose and don't quote me I

13:09

think by the time you're 65

13:12

, 75 , or

13:15

just as you age in general , I think you end up losing like

13:17

35% or so of your muscle

13:19

mass .

13:21

Unless you're actively trying to work out . Yeah , it

13:25

doesn't come back . They're looking at . Well

13:27

, maybe if you can manipulate the regulatory

13:30

T cells , maybe

13:33

you can improve . They

13:35

call it geriatric patients , it just sounds

13:37

so cruel improve their health without that

13:39

inflammatory repercussion . So I

13:41

don't know . Very interesting , I like

13:43

to think . A little mice just titilling

13:46

it on a little treadmill .

13:47

Right .

13:48

Living their best life .

13:49

Just hitting the bench press there .

13:51

Yeah , exactly .

13:53

That would be . I mean , it is important to

13:55

figure out how to maintain some muscle mass as

13:57

you age , Just

14:00

because so many injuries are involved around and

14:04

the elderly just as far

14:06

as muscle mass goes , and not having

14:08

strength or stuff in the upper curb and falling

14:10

and they're like devastating

14:12

injuries . So you know what to

14:14

maintain . That would be Awesome

14:16

, and working out every day and hitting the gym isn't always

14:19

necessarily feasible when

14:21

you get older . Yeah , that

14:24

Outlive book that I talked about last time . He talks

14:26

a lot about ways to maintain

14:28

muscle mass and the

14:30

goal of that book is to try to you know how

14:32

to increase your longevity and health span .

14:34

Well , I know you're obsessed with living forever , so it goes into

14:36

a lot of that .

14:38

I know when you brought it up , this time I

14:40

don't want to live , you know , but just

14:42

making sure you have like that , that

14:45

good like health span

14:47

, along with lifespan they actually like can

14:49

run around and your older age and play

14:52

with grandkids and stuff . So

14:54

anyways , that's not good on that road . No

14:56

, but read the book , the book's pretty

14:58

.

14:58

This is not a paid endorsement .

15:00

Sorry , it

15:03

is not at all . He

15:05

would be a great guest , but he's never coming on our show

15:07

.

15:08

Should we All right ? So our next article is the same

15:10

one .

15:12

VR time . Yeah , yeah

15:14

, you want me to start , it All right .

15:15

Let's do it .

15:16

And you just jump in . Obviously , humans

15:18

have an imagination , quite an extensive

15:20

imagination . Especially if you have kids , the imaginations

15:23

are real . Jeff , that stain that I showed you

15:25

no , this is the side note , or , if you're Daniel , that stain

15:27

that I showed you on the ceiling .

15:28

Or if you're Daniel , I my son saw it and

15:31

I was like you know , how could that have gotten up there ? And

15:33

he's like maybe there was a frog

15:35

that came in the house and he had

15:38

just finished eating French fries , so he

15:40

was greasy and he jumped really high

15:42

and he hit the ceiling and he left a little grease

15:44

mark on the ceiling . And I'm like buddy , that is the

15:46

best theory of why there's a

15:48

strange greasy mark on my ceiling and

15:51

we have 10 , we have 10 foot ceilings downstairs

15:54

, so it's not like like it's up there

15:56

, like I don't know how I got up there , but I just will

15:58

forever imagine a frog having

16:00

just totally gone bananas

16:03

on a French fry container

16:05

.

16:06

Right , yeah that , that , that

16:09

frog .

16:10

Hit the gym getting his endurance up , eating

16:12

those French fries though , which aren't really part

16:15

of the gym lifestyle .

16:16

but I mean workout hard

16:18

.

16:18

You know the word yourself a little bit . So greasy frog left a mark on my ceiling

16:20

. Maybe it's probably the frog's

16:22

cheek day .

16:23

That's what it was . Yes

16:25

, he ate the fries and then he jumped up there and well

16:27

, I'm glad he's , I'm glad he's still there .

16:29

I just loved his imagination because he was really . It was like a thoughtful like

16:32

. This is the theory that I'm going to tell my parents of

16:34

how that mark got up there . But it also begs the question

16:36

of like did he throw something up there and he was trying

16:38

to cover his tracks ? I don't know .

16:40

It was the perfect outline of a mouse , so they only think

16:42

he could have thrown us a mouse . Because

16:44

you have a little mouse toy Many mouse shaped toys

16:47

in our house because I

16:49

just love mice .

16:50

Oh , that's true , but none of , none of my

16:52

mice , none of my little mice are

16:54

greasy , so I don't know how that got up on the

16:56

ceiling .

16:57

Well , all the grease hit the ceiling and

16:59

came out of the mouse .

17:00

Yeah , it absorbed it and cleaned the mouse off , and then he put

17:02

it back .

17:02

Yeah , I mean , you have quite the imagination as well .

17:04

It was where I was getting it going yeah , right right , all your little mouse , my

17:06

little demented life that I live , yeah .

17:08

Stories . I

17:11

don't use Instagram a whole lot , but whenever I do , whenever I open

17:13

it up , it's your mouse

17:15

pictures . Yeah , it's

17:17

fun Every time . So

17:19

anyways , humans obviously have

17:21

a vast imagination and it's

17:24

. I mean , I guess we've kind of pondered

17:26

whether or not animals have that same type

17:28

of imagination and

17:31

then we've never really thought that , like mice or

17:33

rats have it . But

17:36

the new study out of Howard Hughes Medical

17:38

Institute , I had to look up what HHMI was .

17:45

Well yes , the story says it

17:47

right , so

17:51

.

17:52

I'm on live science , so

17:54

shout out to live science and science dailycom

17:57

. So one of the one of the

17:59

tasks , like if you're

18:01

driving , you're walking , you kind of you

18:03

can imagine the route without thinking

18:05

about it . You're kind of a planning out your

18:07

route and your head on how you're going to get somewhere . Yeah

18:10

, I don't think you just have passion for getting your car unless

18:12

you do it over and over and over to go

18:14

, but or you just follow GPS

18:17

, but it's a routine

18:19

commute to work or a trip to an unfamiliar location

18:21

. You're using some sort of imagination

18:23

, and so they tried to kind of recreate

18:26

this and mice . And

18:28

so all this imagination , rats , rats

18:31

. You're right . Yeah , What'd I say ? I

18:33

said mice . Well , we were talking about mice . So

18:36

imaginations controlled by the hippocampus which

18:38

, as we know , it's involved in learning

18:40

and memory , and

18:43

I guess previously they've shown people with damaged hemp

18:45

, hemp , a camp . This is our hemp

18:47

hippocampi , I don't know . They

18:50

struggled to like imagine things . They

18:53

have problems like figuring

18:56

out where they're going or or

18:58

just imagining in general , and

19:00

so they took on . This article was

19:02

published in science , by the way , just on

19:05

November 2nd . So we're this

19:07

is very new , which is great . I

19:09

know Super current , and so

19:11

they basically use virtual

19:13

reality and a brain machine to

19:16

show that rats can indeed illustrate

19:18

that they have imagination . I

19:21

know you want to talk a little bit about it . I was trying to kind

19:23

of picture it as I was reading they put them on like

19:25

a sphere treadmill thing

19:27

.

19:28

So I'm picturing them like running on top of a ball and they're in a

19:30

360 virtual

19:32

reality thing and

19:35

they can train the rat to kind of run on this ball and run

19:37

to a specific location in this virtual reality

19:39

spot and then there's a reward there and

19:43

then they'll take away the

19:45

images , like , so the rat

19:47

isn't seeing it . No

19:49

, I already missed , missed a part . First they had something

19:51

hooked up to his brain , that brain machine

19:53

interface . So they're kind

19:55

of recording what the hippocampus is

19:58

. Again , I don't know how , like maybe it's

20:00

like Morse code , like beep , beep , beep , beep , beep , but

20:02

they're getting this , this recording of what the brain is

20:04

, I don't know , thinking and

20:06

converting it into what the machine , I

20:09

don't again .

20:10

Yeah , I think they had them . They had them like run towards the

20:12

firstly , like trained them they can go towards the goalpost

20:15

and get a treat , and then they set up the game

20:17

and the VR system where

20:20

they were kind of fixed on a

20:22

spot . And

20:24

they had their brain hooked up and

20:27

their brain , they

20:30

could track it . There's

20:32

something on the screen that they could basically like imagine

20:34

getting to that goalpost and

20:36

when their brain got there they

20:39

would get a treat .

20:40

And they have like this video . That probably would have helped me understand this

20:43

a little better .

20:43

Okay , yeah , it helped me , so

20:46

they . But basically it's I mean it's some complex

20:48

like just technology and brain

20:50

studies .

20:51

I did read that it took nine years to get there and I can't even imagine the

20:53

science that went into this . It's totally cool .

20:55

Yeah , and so they

20:57

have like a , they have a goalpost

21:00

, if you will , and they have like , which

21:02

is where the rats need to get to get the treat . And they

21:04

can like see the rat , although they're not actually getting

21:06

there . They can like see the rat through

21:08

the hippocampus , planning its route on how

21:10

it's going to get there , and then when it gets

21:13

there and the brain it's basically mapped out

21:15

the route to get there and it hits

21:17

it via imagination . They

21:19

get a treat and then they'll move the goalpost

21:21

to different spots and you can like see this little

21:23

target which is basically tracking the rats

21:26

imagination , if

21:28

you will , and when

21:30

, whenever that dot hits the goalpost , it

21:32

gets the treat . And then they even

21:34

did it for like an for objects .

21:36

Yeah , they had like a jumper task and a Jedi task Moving

21:38

an object into the goalpost .

21:41

Yeah yeah , the Jedi task was

21:43

to use the force , if you will

21:45

, to move a box toward the goal post

21:47

and whenever they can use , like harness , their

21:49

mental map to think about

21:51

navigating the object through the environment

21:53

without actually moving , and

21:55

they get the object to the goal .

21:57

And it also talked about the rat's attention

22:00

span to that , because we don't know

22:02

what an animal's attention span is , but

22:04

they were , you know , thinking of things that weren't

22:06

there for many seconds . And

22:10

again , we have no idea what

22:12

the correct attention span

22:14

of a rat should be , but it is showing that they kind

22:17

of stay on the same thought for longer

22:19

than just a millisecond , you know .

22:21

Yeah , I mean it's kind of . I mean , I'm not reading

22:24

the science article . I'm sure the science article goes into

22:26

all these details . I

22:29

do want all the numbers and statistics

22:31

and all that stuff to go with it . You could go

22:33

there to get that , yeah , but just in general

22:35

, it just shows that they do have this like

22:38

cognitive ability to imagine

22:40

and play in .

22:41

I think this just feeds into my brain

22:44

of like I just picture these little rats going

22:46

home in the wild and their little

22:48

burrows and being like oh , what's for dinner ? I

22:50

really wish I could find more acorns . Like

22:52

. I just feel like it adds to the cuteness of like

22:54

what's for dinner tonight .

22:57

Right , and then they're playing on how to like get out there

22:59

and I also think in

23:01

the lab animal world .

23:03

This feeds into the same thing about all those wonderful

23:05

enrichment programs that everyone does Like . It

23:07

makes a difference when you can help

23:10

work an animal's brain , because they clearly

23:12

have awesome thoughts

23:14

going on up there .

23:16

Yeah , yeah , you definitely got to keep them stimulated

23:18

, so

23:22

that thing , I mean I think they get bored

23:24

, you know , and it would come a long ways

23:26

over the years with enrichment , so

23:28

but so that's

23:30

it for that one . If

23:32

you want to , we'll have links to all these along

23:35

when we publish the episodes and

23:38

we'll try to maybe get the videos now like a

23:40

super exciting video or

23:42

imagine like an old , like 1980s

23:44

, or maybe even like an Atari video

23:46

game which is kind of

23:48

even before our time .

23:49

Nice .

23:50

Almost like Pong you know , is what the videos look like

23:53

.

23:53

Cool .

23:53

So , but we could put them up .

23:56

We could put videos on Instagram right . Sometimes

23:58

you just have to do like a screen video , like a screenshot video

24:00

, but I can do that . I'll figure it out .

24:03

Yes , yes , since we kind of

24:05

merged our second article into one .

24:06

You can talk about your . I

24:09

have many questions on this article .

24:11

Yeah . So I don't know

24:13

why and I mean , listen , love

24:16

the Navy and

24:20

but this study was supported by the Office of Naval

24:22

Research and Naval Undersea

24:24

Warfare Center . I feel like they've

24:26

got better things to probably support

24:29

, but I mean it was out of Brown University , so

24:31

maybe they were just like supporting it . Either

24:33

way , this is how it starts . Anyone

24:36

who's ever done a belly flop into

24:38

a swimming pool knows it ends with a blunt sounding

24:40

splash and a big splash in a searing

24:43

red sting and most people . What

24:45

most people don't know is why . So

24:49

this is what we studied to figure out how

24:52

we could do less pain . We could do less

24:54

painful belly flops , and

24:57

these researchers have the answer .

24:58

So wait , so is this human subjects

25:01

research .

25:02

I don't even want to get into the details on it . No

25:05

, they didn't even like you think you just ? Get like

25:08

all right line them up and start doing

25:10

belly flops , you know , and then have them do

25:12

a pain score and just see whoever has the best technique

25:14

. But no , I got it got real complicated

25:17

. They have belly flop

25:19

like water experiments , they use this blunt

25:21

cylinder and then they have

25:23

like this . So

25:25

this isn't animal research either .

25:27

This is just ridiculous research that you want to talk about

25:29

because public funds have gone

25:31

to it .

25:32

I think the only tie to an animal is

25:35

I think they talk about how so

25:38

diving birds are

25:41

able to like do ?

25:43

this over and over and without any consequences

25:46

.

25:47

Well , and it's funny that I saw this article

25:49

and then there was a whole separate article about

25:53

how those birds can dive in

25:55

at like I don't know how fast they're going

25:58

like 40 miles an hour or something like that into the

26:00

water , and how can they

26:02

do that without suffering concussions ?

26:05

I'm like well , I feel like they have a long beat to kind of

26:07

break the force

26:09

a little bit , you know , ease the force .

26:12

I don't know if we have to do whole research articles but research

26:15

experiments on that , but hey , someone

26:17

is . But I guess they're trying to use that information from those

26:19

diving birds and how they're avoiding concussions .

26:21

Are belly flops in the Navy a big problem

26:24

?

26:24

Putting it back .

26:26

Are guys jumping off the boat ?

26:27

I don't know .

26:28

Totally missing the mark .

26:29

I'll have to ask my dad . I mean , that wasn't the

26:31

Navy , all right , is this a part of

26:33

your training ? Like , do you have to belly flop effectively

26:36

to be in the Navy ?

26:38

Now I picture a military out there on a boat , just

26:40

having fun , just belly flopping , jumping

26:42

up the side of the boat .

26:45

Cannonball Right , just

26:48

perfecting that technique . Like

26:50

you have them over at your house , they do a belly flop

26:52

and it's perfect , doesn't hurt , can't ?

26:54

you learn that they just on the other pool put their arms out

26:56

and just lean forward like a bird , just ball

26:58

flopping .

27:01

Right , so it's just a perfect little swan . So

27:03

swan dives , swan flop . So

27:08

I mean I really don't understand

27:11

all of the implications and I

27:14

just can't believe we spent so

27:16

much time investigating

27:19

this and maybe we did , maybe they did it all in a day

27:21

. Yeah , maybe it was like the end of the

27:23

year . You know you got money to spend , but

27:25

he used it or lose it , kind of thing , and they're

27:28

like let's do belly flops . And

27:30

so , anyways , they

27:32

figured out and there's no real answer , like

27:34

doesn't tell you the best technique at every like

27:36

, at any point in this article

27:39

to actually do a belly flop . They

27:41

just show like different angles can increase

27:44

, like impact forces .

27:46

Seems like common sense yeah .

27:49

Seems kind of intuitive , yeah

27:52

, so they just kept like dropping the cylinder .

27:53

Maybe these were people who , like , didn't take swim lessons

27:55

as kids and like didn't learn to like put your arms in

27:57

front of you and dive into the pool , or jump

27:59

like a pencil where your feet go in first Right

28:03

.

28:05

I mean , how many people are just belly ?

28:06

flopping and just hope for the best .

28:08

Right and

28:11

they're just trying to figure out , like how can you enter a

28:13

pool without so painful ? You

28:17

know , they just can't do it . How

28:20

are these people doing ?

28:22

Scientists .

28:23

Maybe there is a whole community of people that , just like

28:25

, haven't figured out how to get into the pool .

28:28

This has been on their mind .

28:29

So I mean so

28:32

, but anyways that's

28:34

that . That's that I

28:37

mean just . I think belly flop contest was like

28:39

a highlight of some of my childhood .

28:40

For us it was always cannonballs . It was who could make the biggest

28:42

splash .

28:43

Yeah , Just going out and being like yeah , I mean that , of course , that too

28:45

.

28:45

But did you just like ? Do you remember canopeners ? Did

28:47

you do canopeners ? Okay , I'm

28:49

glad that canopeners are a jump across

28:52

the US that people know about .

28:54

Canopeners also .

28:56

Yep , I've heard .

28:58

I believe right . Yeah , jackknife

29:00

. Okay , yeah , we would do both . Yeah

29:02

, I've been trying to teach my kids .

29:04

I mean , they're great at cannonballs , but yeah . Yeah

29:07

.

29:07

Yeah , like you got like hold the knee and go

29:09

in , which I

29:12

feel like this is like . I think you don't need to do that

29:14

. You know it's just like kids being

29:16

kids . I'm

29:18

not sure it's more effective holding like

29:20

one leg up and going down , going in

29:22

both legs down . I

29:24

don't know . I guess you can like pull back harder , but

29:28

yeah , but then you got to do the belly flop competitions

29:30

as well , cause

29:32

who's who's willing to just air it out and go all

29:34

out ?

29:34

I don't think I ever willingly did a belly flop Maybe

29:37

my brother , but not me . Yeah

29:39

, no .

29:39

I'm afraid now I'm not doing it now

29:41

? My

29:44

kids want me to do it with them . When they do

29:46

it and it's just , I'm not like . I'm

29:48

just like , hey , I'm too old

29:50

. I've way more like massed . Now .

29:53

When my son jumps in the pool he kind of does

29:55

like a gecko pose Like his

29:57

arms are kind of like he

29:59

jumps in on like a diagonal angle and like his

30:02

knees kind of come up , but one's usually a little higher than the other

30:04

one and they're kind of like out to the side , and his arms are kind of

30:06

like bent at the elbow and he makes these little

30:08

claws and he just like jumps

30:10

in . And now I picture

30:13

like a little gecko , just like yeah .

30:15

Right , that's hilarious . There's

30:18

one more line in here . It talks about

30:20

how and why belly flops happen , and

30:23

it just talks about like one

30:25

of the one of the issues is

30:28

you're at a pool party and

30:30

you have trivia and everyone's trying to figure out

30:32

why belly bops , belly flops , belly

30:35

flops hurt so much ?

30:36

No , no , I haven't have you ever done that ? I never have . Are

30:38

you sure you're not reading this on like ?

30:40

These people don't these people are living .

30:41

Is this how the onion or some like joke website ?

30:44

Real life .

30:45

Okay , science daily .

30:46

Okay , Science daily . I

30:49

mean , if science daily is a joke website we've

30:51

been giving people that information

30:53

for two years .

30:55

And if we're just for a year and a half , if we're just learning this

30:57

now , we should not be hosting

30:59

this podcast . Yeah .

31:02

This will be our last episode . All

31:04

right , Thanks everyone for sticking sticking

31:07

with us . I know

31:09

, like I said , we life's just

31:11

got kind of busy and we weren't doing this consistently

31:13

. But here we are back to back months . Yep

31:16

, Planned on being back every month with some news

31:18

bites . The interview episodes , like I said

31:20

, are just harder to schedule and get people to

31:22

commit and give us their time

31:24

, because it is all kind of

31:26

volunteer . We don't , you know , have

31:28

a huge budget where we're able to

31:30

pay people to come in or offer anything .

31:33

We've interviewed all of our connections and trends .

31:35

Yeah , I know we've

31:37

tapped out and now people are like , well

31:39

, it's a lot of commitment . So again

31:41

, you can email us live at chat at gmailcom

31:43

. You have ideas or they

31:46

know anyone or want to be on the show , you know

31:48

, be more than happy to talk to you

31:50

about that . And then check us out on social

31:52

media , and you never know .

31:54

I find some cute little stuff . I'll

31:57

get extra and we'll do another giveaway .

31:59

Thanks everyone , and we'll talk to you next time

32:01

, see ya .