0:02

A listener note, this episode

0:04

contains adult content and is not

0:06

suitable for everyone. Please

0:08

be advised. Clowns

0:18

in one form or another have been around

0:20

for thousands of years. Ancient

0:23

clowns were culled from stereotypes and

0:25

in some cultures were part of

0:27

a royal entourage. Before

0:30

the 20th century, clown acts

0:32

focused mostly on sex, food,

0:34

and making fun of the

0:36

monarchy, which was always

0:38

a delicate line. And

0:40

the fate of the clown sometimes depended

0:43

on the mood of the king or

0:45

queen that day. In

0:48

1801, English entertainer Joseph Grimaldi

0:50

became the father of modern

0:53

clowning. While he too

0:55

was irreverent, he relied on the

0:57

physical humor that is prevalent in

0:59

the profession today. Grimaldi

1:01

was also the first to make

1:04

popular the white face paint with

1:06

red patches on his cheeks and

1:08

garish clothes. As

1:10

the character of the clown transitioned from

1:13

the theater to the circus, its

1:15

popularity among children soared.

1:19

Almost 200 years after Grimaldi

1:21

first painted his face, the

1:23

character of Bozo the Clown

1:25

became one of the most

1:27

popular TV shows for children

1:29

in the world, and even

1:31

the fast food giant McDonald's

1:34

branded themselves with Ronald

1:36

McDonald. However,

1:40

the clown was not always a

1:42

fun, light character. The

1:45

1892 opera Pagliacci was the

1:47

story of a clown that

1:49

killed his unfaithful wife, and

1:52

circus clowns were often likened

1:54

to inmates in an insane

1:56

asylum. But it was in the 1970s that that

2:00

the alter ego of a

2:02

clown named Pogo became the

2:04

inspiration for what is known

2:07

today as the Killer Clown.

2:10

Because real life Pogo,

2:13

John Wayne Gacy, was

2:15

not part of a circus

2:17

or vaudeville troupe. He

2:20

was a murderer, a

2:22

serial killer, hiding behind

2:24

makeup and transforming a

2:26

beloved children's character into

2:30

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wondering and for media, I'm Candace

4:17

day long and this is the

4:19

third. Season. I

4:41

was a psychiatric nurse. And.

4:43

Then an F B I criminal

4:45

profiler. In

4:47

the five decades I've spent

4:49

studying people's minds, I the

4:52

interview countless murderers, including many

4:54

serial. Killers Why did

4:56

they do with. To

4:59

get a satisfying answer, we have

5:02

to die deep into their safety

5:04

to figure out what made them

5:06

do what they did. This episode

5:09

is part one and. John Wayne

5:11

Gacy, the Killer Clown. Late

5:16

in the afternoon on December Eleventh.

5:19

Nineteen Seventy Eight. Seventeen.

5:21

Year old Kim Buyers filled out

5:23

a photo developing on below, ripped

5:25

off the on below, proceed and

5:27

stuff it into the pocket of

5:29

the coach she was wearing. A

5:32

coat was a light blue

5:34

nylon down parker that belonged

5:37

to her friend and coworker,

5:39

fifteen year old Rob. Pieced

5:41

Rob. Was a high school

5:44

sophomore, gymnast and honor roll student

5:46

at his high school. He

5:48

was friendly, handsome, and popular.

5:51

after school see income both

5:53

worked at a family owned

5:55

pharmacy in desk planes illinois

5:58

a suburb north west Chicago.

6:01

On that freezing December afternoon,

6:04

Kim was working the cash register

6:06

near the front entrance. Whenever

6:09

the doors opened, she was

6:11

blasted by the cold Chicago

6:13

wind that passed over Lake

6:15

Michigan. Rob lent

6:17

buyers his parka while he

6:19

stocked shelves further inside the

6:22

store. About 5.30

6:25

p.m., 36-year-old John Wayne

6:27

Gacy, a portly 5

6:29

foot 9 inch contractor who

6:31

specialized in pharmacy remodeling, showed

6:34

up to take measurements for

6:36

new display units. He

6:38

chatted with one of the pharmacists at the back

6:40

of the store and remarked that

6:43

there were new faces since he had

6:45

last remodeled two years earlier. The

6:47

pharmacist said he hired a lot of

6:50

high school kids and that meant there

6:52

was turnover when they left for college.

6:55

Gacy then loudly boasted that he

6:57

hired high schoolers for $5 an

6:59

hour during the summer. An

7:01

older clerk overheard him and joked with

7:03

Rob that he should ask the contractor

7:06

for a job. But for Rob,

7:08

it wasn't a joke. That was

7:10

almost double what he earned stocking

7:13

shelves at Nissens. Rob

7:15

picked up his pace, hoping he would

7:18

impress the contractor with his work ethic.

7:21

His attempt was unnecessary.

7:23

Gacy had already noticed Rob and the

7:26

talk of the job was really just

7:28

the bait Gacy was using to reel

7:30

him in. Around

7:33

6.50 p.m., Gacy

7:35

finished taking measurements and left. A few

7:39

minutes later, the pharmacist saw that

7:41

Gacy had forgotten his appointment book

7:43

on the counter. He did

7:45

not bother to call him. He

7:47

guessed that the contractor would quickly

7:49

realize he had left it and

7:51

come back for it. The

7:54

pharmacist was right. Gacy discovered

7:56

his mistake on the drive

7:58

home. but Gacy decided

8:01

to keep going home. He

8:03

wanted to check his phone messages and

8:06

return calls first. When

8:08

Gacy pulled into the parking lot

8:10

around eight o'clock, he spotted Rob

8:12

in the alley taking out the

8:14

trash. Rob approached Gacy's

8:16

truck to ask about a summer

8:18

job, and Gacy told him that he

8:21

would hang around the pharmacy until the

8:23

end of Rob's shift. Then

8:25

the two could talk outside.

8:29

Rob happily agreed. He

8:31

was saving up to buy a used car for when

8:33

he turned 16. A

8:35

higher paying job would help him

8:38

reach his goal faster. After

8:40

he was back inside, Gacy entered

8:43

and collected his appointment book. Gacy

8:46

hung around the store chatting with

8:48

the pharmacist and pretending to take

8:50

more measurements. At

8:53

8.55 PM, Rob's mother arrived

8:56

to pick him up. It

8:58

was her birthday. His father

9:00

and two older siblings were

9:02

waiting back home with a

9:04

celebratory dinner and cake. A

9:07

minute later, Gacy exited and Rob followed

9:09

him out, grabbing his blue

9:11

parka from behind the counter. He

9:14

asked his coworker, Kim, to cover for

9:16

him for five minutes and told her

9:19

that Gacy wanted to talk to him

9:21

for a minute. Then spotting

9:23

his mother outside, he hurried over

9:25

to her and told her that

9:27

he needed to talk to some

9:29

contractor about a job and

9:31

he would be right there. Outside,

9:34

Gacy invited Rob to get into

9:37

his truck, that he needed

9:39

to come to his house to fill

9:41

out employee paperwork, but Rob

9:43

declined to go. He

9:45

explained that it was his mother's birthday and

9:48

she was inside waiting on him.

9:51

Gacy Coaxed him inside the vehicle,

9:53

telling Rob that there would be

9:55

no better birthday gift for his

9:57

mother than the news of him.

10:00

The curing a well paying job.

10:02

Besides. He told a

10:04

teenager he would drop him at

10:06

his parents' house within forty five

10:09

minutes. After a moment

10:11

of hesitation, Rob. Got

10:13

into Jaycees truck. No

10:15

one would ever see Rod

10:18

pieced alive again. Gacy.

10:22

Charles recklessly speeding and rapidly switching

10:24

lanes for the entire ten minutes

10:27

it took him to reach his

10:29

home. A. One story brick

10:31

variance with a circular driveway

10:33

surrounded by tall hedges. When.

10:35

They arrived, Gacy escorted to teenager

10:38

into a back rec room and

10:40

offered him a beer from his

10:42

tiki bar. Rob politely accepted and

10:45

concerned about the time and that

10:47

his family was looking for him

10:49

Reminded Gacy of the employee paperwork.

10:52

Gacy. Went to retrieve the documents from

10:55

his office at the front of the

10:57

house. just stop. A small living room.

10:59

Pieced. Waited in the living

11:02

room surrounded by dozens of clown

11:04

photos and paintings hung on the

11:06

walls. Gacy explained that he was

11:08

a registered clown who performed under

11:11

the name Pogo. See

11:13

also claimed to be an amateur

11:15

magician and showed Rob a trick

11:17

with a pair of handcuffs. Gacy

11:20

lock the cuffs on his

11:23

own. Risk momentarily turned his

11:25

back. And then when he

11:27

turned back to face the teenager. The.

11:29

Costs were oss. Gacy.

11:32

Convinced pieced see could show him

11:35

how to do the trick himself.

11:38

See. Handcuffed Robs hands behind

11:40

his back. Instantly,

11:43

Jaycees friendly demeanor vanished.

11:46

The. Trick to getting out of

11:48

the handcuffs Casey revealed was

11:50

having the key. Gacy.

11:52

Had hidden it between two of his

11:54

fingers, but he was not offering the

11:57

key to Rob. instead

12:00

Gacy attacked the teenager, attempting

12:02

to perform oral sex on

12:04

him, but later said that

12:06

the teenager was crying so

12:08

much that he stopped. Gacy

12:12

took off the handcuffs and told Rob he

12:14

would drive him home. As

12:17

he went to the door to leave,

12:19

the teen told Gacy that he thought

12:21

that he was going to kill him.

12:24

Unfortunately, in that moment, Gacy

12:27

made the decision that Rob

12:29

would not leave his home

12:32

alive. He worried that

12:34

the teen would tell people what had

12:36

happened. Gacy informed Rob

12:38

that before he left, he needed

12:40

to show him one

12:43

more magic trick. Gacy

12:45

slipped a length of rope around Rob's

12:47

neck and quickly knotted it twice. He

12:50

then threaded a wood stick between

12:52

the knots. He twisted

12:54

the stick, tightening the

12:57

rope like a tourniquet. Again,

13:00

Gacy's phone rang, distracting

13:03

him. This time he left

13:05

Rob alone in the room to answer it, and

13:07

when he returned, Rob was

13:10

dead on the floor. Gacy

13:14

picked up Rob's body and carried it to

13:16

his bed. The phone rang

13:18

again. It was his aunt. His

13:21

uncle was at Northwest Hospital and would

13:23

not survive the night. Gacy

13:25

said he had business to attend to, but

13:27

promised to get there within an hour. Back

13:31

in his bedroom, Gacy had

13:33

sex with Rob's corpse. Before

13:37

he showered, he organized Rob's clothes,

13:39

putting the soiled items in a

13:41

plastic bag. Gacy

13:44

liked the blue parka, so he

13:46

emptied its pockets, tossing the photo

13:48

development receipt into the kitchen garbage

13:50

can, and hung it in the

13:52

closet. After his

13:54

shower, he left the house with the

13:57

rest of Rob's clothes and disposed of

13:59

them in dumpsters and recycling

14:01

bins along the way to

14:03

the hospital. When

14:05

Gacy arrived, his uncle had

14:08

already passed. Gacy joined

14:10

his family at a relative's house

14:12

where he stayed for an hour

14:14

before returning home. That

14:18

night he slept with Rob's body next

14:21

to him, and in the morning,

14:23

Gacy hid his corpse in the

14:25

attic and went to work. Meanwhile,

14:29

Rob's close-knit family had spent

14:31

the entire night searching for

14:34

him. When Rob had

14:36

failed to return from his meeting

14:38

with the contractor, his mother hurried

14:40

home to alert the family and

14:43

call all of his friends. Then

14:46

she called the pharmacy once again

14:48

and got the name of the

14:50

contractor, John Gacy.

14:53

At 11 p.m., the family went

14:55

to the Des Plaines Police Department

14:58

and filed a missing person report.

15:01

They gave the night watchman Gacy's

15:03

name and phone number. They

15:05

impressed upon the officer that everyone

15:08

in their family always let someone

15:10

know where they were. The

15:13

next morning, at 8.30 a.m.,

15:15

Rob's parents returned to the police

15:17

station and asked to speak to

15:20

the detective assigned to the case.

15:23

That detective called the pharmacist who

15:25

told him that he had not

15:27

bothered to call Gacy about his

15:29

address book because he knew that

15:31

Gacy would come back for it.

15:33

The detective then phoned Rob's

15:36

coworker, Kim Byers. She

15:38

confirmed that Rob had gone outside

15:41

at 9 p.m. to speak with

15:43

a contractor named John about work.

15:46

Next, the detective called Gacy's

15:48

home. He questioned him

15:50

about the conversation he had

15:52

with Rob outside the pharmacy

15:54

the night before, but Gacy

15:57

denied ever speaking to the

15:59

teenager. The detective then

16:01

asked why he had returned to the

16:03

pharmacy that night. Gacy lied

16:05

and said he went back to

16:07

the store because the pharmacist called

16:10

him about his forgotten appointment book.

16:13

That contradicted the earlier statement

16:15

from the pharmacist and

16:17

because of that lie, the detective

16:20

knew Gacy was guilty of

16:22

something. But of what? He

16:25

did not yet know. When

16:30

Rob's family left the police

16:32

station, the detective informed his

16:34

supervisor, Des Plains Lieutenant Joseph

16:36

Kozensack, of what he had

16:38

learned. The supervisor had

16:41

a son who went to school with

16:43

Rob Peast and gave

16:45

the detective permission to pursue

16:47

the disappearance as urgent and

16:49

to pursue the last person

16:51

known to have seen him,

16:54

John Gacy. The

16:56

detective checked to see if Gacy

16:58

had a record and learned he

17:01

had been convicted of sodomy with

17:03

a teenage boy in Iowa and

17:06

spent time in prison

17:08

for it. The lieutenant

17:10

immediately alerted the assistant

17:12

state's attorney, Terry Sullivan,

17:14

about Rob's disappearance and

17:16

Gacy's possible involvement. Fearing

17:19

that Gacy might be holding Rob

17:21

hostage, Lieutenant Kozensack and two other

17:23

officers drove to Gacy's home to

17:26

interview him at 9.20 p.m. Gacy

17:31

seemed unconcerned by their sudden

17:33

appearance. He invited

17:35

them in, offered them drinks,

17:37

and once again denied ever

17:39

speaking to Rob Peast. He

17:42

said that after getting home from the

17:45

pharmacy, he had gone to the hospital

17:47

to see his dying uncle and then

17:49

to a relative's house. The

17:52

lieutenant asked Gacy to accompany him

17:54

to the police station to give a

17:57

statement. to

18:00

make his uncle's funeral arrangements and would

18:02

go later. The lieutenant

18:04

pressed him for a set

18:07

time. Frustrated, Gacy finally agreed

18:09

to show up at 11

18:11

p.m. Still, he protested saying,

18:13

don't you people have any

18:15

respect for the dead? Oh,

18:17

the irony. But

18:23

at 11 p.m., Gacy did not head

18:25

to the police department as he had

18:28

agreed to do. Instead, he

18:30

retrieved Rob's body from the attic,

18:32

wrapped it in a blanket, and

18:34

loaded it into the trunk of

18:37

his sedan. Then he slipped past

18:39

the officers assigned to watch his

18:41

house and drove about 50 miles

18:44

south on Interstate 55.

18:48

Gacy arrived at the huge suspension

18:50

bridge that spans the Des Plaines

18:52

River and unceremoniously tossed

18:55

Rob's body from the bridge.

18:59

Gacy returned to the Des Plaines

19:01

police station around 1030 the next

19:03

morning. He called his lawyer

19:05

to let him know the police were questioning

19:08

him about what he

19:10

did not know. While Gacy

19:12

sat with detectives for several

19:14

hours boasting of his multiple

19:16

businesses and political connections, Assistant

19:19

State's Attorney Sullivan secured

19:22

a search warrant for Gacy's

19:24

home. While

19:26

Gacy waited at the police

19:28

station, four Des Plaines officers

19:30

and evidence recovery team searched

19:33

Gacy's house and seized over

19:35

57 pieces

19:37

of evidence. This included

19:40

Gacy's black sedan, his pickup

19:42

truck, and a work van.

19:45

They collected handcuffs, a board

19:47

with chains, an empty glass

19:49

bottle that smelled of chloroform,

19:52

and a hypodermic needle. In

19:55

addition, they confiscated marijuana and pills

19:57

from the house and cut out

19:59

a piece of of blood-stained carpet.

20:03

Detectives also found several pieces

20:05

of jewelry and driver's

20:08

licenses, each belonging to

20:10

a different young man. One

20:13

of the officers pulled a red slip

20:15

of paper from the kitchen garbage can.

20:18

It was the receipt for photo

20:20

film development that had been in

20:22

Rob's coat pocket. Over

20:27

the next week, teams of officers

20:29

continued surveilling Gacy wherever he

20:31

went, 24-7. Then on Friday,

20:35

December 15th, 1978, the

20:38

officers linked a high school

20:40

ring they had discovered in

20:43

Gacy's house with the initials

20:45

JAS to John Allen Citch.

20:48

Citch was a 19-year-old man who

20:50

had suddenly disappeared on January 20th,

20:52

1977. Police spoke

20:57

to John's mother who had filed

20:59

a missing person's complaint after his

21:01

disappearance. Police had assumed

21:04

John was a troubled teen who

21:06

had run away. Obviously,

21:08

that was not the case. Detectives

21:11

also tracked down the relatives of

21:13

some of the IDs from Gacy's

21:15

bedroom, some that had

21:17

been missing for over five years.

21:20

On Tuesday

21:22

morning, December 19th, 1978, Gacy invited two of the

21:24

detectives who were surveilling

21:29

him into his home and

21:31

prepared breakfast. While

21:33

one of the officers was using

21:35

Gacy's bathroom, the hot air furnace

21:38

forced air from the crawlspace through

21:40

the bathroom vent. The

21:42

officer guessed there was probably a leak

21:44

in the ductwork and did not think

21:46

much of it until later that same

21:49

day when detectives learned

21:51

that the photo development

21:53

receipt found in Gacy's

21:55

kitchen garbage can belonged

21:57

to Rob's co-worker, Kim.

22:00

She confirmed she had put the

22:02

receipt in there while wearing Rob's

22:05

parka. This was the

22:07

evidence law enforcement needed to

22:09

link Robert Peast to

22:11

Gacy's house. Detectives

22:13

continued to tail Gacy, hoping

22:15

that he would reveal where

22:17

Rob's body might be. That

22:22

Tuesday proved to be a busy day for

22:25

Gacy. In the afternoon, Gacy's

22:27

lawyers filed a $750,000 lawsuit against the

22:29

Nest Plains police for harassment. The

22:36

hearing for the suit was scheduled to take

22:38

place on December 22nd. If

22:41

the lawsuit went forward, the officers would

22:43

no longer be allowed to surveil Gacy,

22:46

thwarting efforts to gather evidence.

22:48

So time was of the essence.

22:52

The next evening, the officer who had

22:54

smelled the awful odor in Gacy's bathroom

22:56

was sitting home, reflecting on the case.

22:59

He realized he had encountered that smell

23:01

many times in the city morgue. It

23:04

was the smell of decaying

23:06

flesh. The state's

23:08

attorney used that and the

23:10

photo development receipt to

23:12

obtain a search warrant to

23:14

search Gacy's home for the

23:16

remains of the body of

23:18

Robert Peast. The

23:21

officers watching Gacy saw that

23:23

his behavior was growing increasingly

23:25

erratic, and they feared he

23:28

was suicidal. But

23:30

they could not arrest him until they had

23:32

a body or committed a crime. Luckily,

23:35

one of the surveillance officers

23:37

brought up that he had

23:39

witnessed Gacy gift a young

23:41

gas station worker a bag

23:43

of marijuana joints. The

23:45

detectives brought in the attendant who

23:48

confirmed it. On

23:51

Thursday, December 21st, 1978, at 12.15 p.m., Gacy was arrested

23:53

for the felony. of

24:00

delivering marijuana. While

24:03

he was being held at the police station, officers

24:06

began excavating the crawl space

24:08

under his house. On

24:10

their hands and knees, the Des

24:13

Plain's evidence recovery team moved toward

24:15

areas with depressions, which were covered

24:17

in lime. The technician dug six

24:19

or seven inches down and

24:22

unearthed the beginning of what

24:24

was a massive grave site.

24:27

They took two long bones to

24:29

the county medical examiner who identified

24:31

them as human leg bones. Gacy,

24:35

who had collapsed at the police

24:37

station and was now at the

24:39

hospital with two officers, was still

24:41

unaware the police had discovered bodies

24:44

under his house. But as

24:46

soon as the hospital cleared him of

24:49

any health issues, he

24:51

was transported back to the police

24:53

station where he was immediately

24:55

booked on murder charges. And

24:58

this time, Gacy had no

25:01

key for his handcuffs.

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Wayne Gacy. Was born on

27:31

March seventeenth, nineteen Forty Two,

27:33

in Chicago, Illinois. He was

27:35

the second of three children

27:38

and the only. Son or

27:40

to John Stanley Gacy. And

27:43

Marion Elaine Robinson. his

27:45

father was a world war

27:48

one veteran and after the

27:50

war worked as a machinist

27:52

in the chicago factory his

27:54

father was also an alcoholic

27:57

who spoke sickly and verbally

27:59

abuse Gacy worked

28:01

hard to live up to his

28:04

father's expectations, trying to help with

28:06

their home's upkeep and repairs. But

28:09

the elder Gacy was not

28:11

impressed, and regularly called his

28:13

son stupid. In

28:16

fact, from the day he was

28:19

a very young boy until the

28:21

day his father died of cirrhosis

28:24

of the liver when John was

28:26

27 and serving time in prison,

28:28

his dad never shied away from

28:31

expressing his profound disappointment in

28:34

and his disdain for his

28:37

only son. And

28:39

what was the reason for this? Well,

28:41

his son was not masculine

28:44

enough for him. Rather than

28:46

excel in sports and shop

28:48

class, John Jr. showed more

28:50

interest in cooking and gardening,

28:53

and that meant only one

28:55

thing. His son was

28:57

a, quote, sissy boy, and

28:59

he told John John exactly what

29:02

he thought of him. To

29:04

say the very least, Gacy's

29:06

childhood was filled with

29:09

wall-to-wall emotional, physical,

29:12

and mental abuse from

29:14

his hopelessly alcoholic, cruel,

29:17

and violent father. Unfortunately,

29:21

this was not the

29:23

only abuse he had to endure. There

29:26

were a series of sexual assaults starting

29:29

at five years old with

29:31

a 15-year-old female neighbor

29:35

fondling him. Then, at only

29:37

eight, a male contractor who was

29:40

working next door offered

29:42

to take him to ice cream

29:44

and molested him in the car.

29:48

After going with him a few more

29:50

times, Gacy would run and hide whenever

29:53

the contractor approached. His

29:56

mother noticed and told his father,

29:59

and Gacy would run. revealed what had happened.

30:02

The next day, Gacy's

30:04

father confronted the contractor

30:06

and threatened to call

30:08

the police. The man

30:10

left immediately and never

30:13

returned. Although he

30:15

was very close with his

30:18

mother, their relationship was hardly

30:20

perfect. When he was eight,

30:22

she humiliated him when she

30:24

caught him trying on her

30:26

underwear and discovered that he

30:28

had hidden a stash of

30:30

her panties under the front porch.

30:33

He confessed and said

30:35

he liked the way the material

30:37

felt. Apparently trying to

30:39

scare what she feared was

30:42

a newfound perversion out of

30:44

him, she made him

30:46

wear a pair on top of

30:48

his clothes. She told him

30:51

if she ever caught him with it again, she'd

30:54

make him wear it and walk

30:56

up and down the street with

30:58

it on. Then she

31:00

told his father, who

31:02

of course beat him

31:04

with a leather strap. Not

31:07

quite the nurturing environment one would hope

31:09

to grow up in. At

31:12

age nine, doctors diagnosed Gacy

31:14

with a congenital heart defect

31:17

and he began taking medication.

31:19

The heart condition prevented him

31:22

from participating in sports.

31:24

He put on weight, which turned

31:26

out to be a lifelong problem.

31:30

When he was 11 years old, Gacy

31:32

started having thoughts of hugging

31:34

his male friends. He

31:37

was terrified that his father would

31:39

find out and beat him for

31:41

being homosexual.

31:44

According to his own biography, Gacy

31:46

struggled with his sexual identity when

31:49

he was only a young boy,

31:51

school age. He knew

31:53

he was attracted to boys

31:55

and being that way was something

31:58

one kept to themselves. His

32:01

sexuality had to be

32:03

repressed at all costs.

32:06

In that era, and especially in

32:08

small towns and small cities, being

32:10

a homosexual was akin to being

32:12

a criminal, only worse. Why?

32:16

Being a criminal was not something other

32:18

people whispered behind your back. But

32:21

being a homosexual was, it

32:23

meant you were a pervert. That

32:26

you had a mental disorder, and

32:29

that meant you were to be

32:31

avoided, shunned by

32:34

society. It would not be until 1973

32:38

when the American Psychological

32:40

Association removed homosexuality from

32:43

the DSM as a

32:45

disorder. But unfortunately,

32:47

it would take many

32:50

decades before the majority of

32:52

Americans agreed with that decision.

32:56

Although a good student, in the eighth

32:58

grade, Gacy transferred to a trade school

33:00

and took his first job at age

33:03

14. A

33:05

year later, he transferred to a

33:07

different vocational high school. Then

33:09

he dropped out before his third

33:11

year. At age

33:13

16, he began experiencing

33:16

blackouts from a

33:18

cerebral blood clot. Those,

33:20

by the way, can be fatal. The

33:23

injury was caused from a swing

33:26

hitting him in the side of

33:28

the head five years earlier. Medication

33:31

dissolved the clot and the

33:33

fainting spells he'd been having ceased.

33:37

Here we are again, a serial

33:39

killer who suffered cerebral damage

33:42

when he was a kid.

33:46

Gacy began dating girls in high

33:48

school and lost his

33:50

virginity at age 16. His

33:54

father continued to be a

33:56

dominating presence in his adulthood. When

33:59

he was 18, he was a child. years old, Gacy

34:01

wanted to purchase a used car. His

34:04

father convinced him to buy a

34:06

new car instead and would

34:09

help him finance it. He

34:11

made Gacy pay him a hundred

34:13

dollars a month. However,

34:15

his father claimed the car

34:18

was his and

34:20

took it away at the

34:22

slightest transgression. By

34:24

March 1962, Gacy fell

34:26

behind on his payments.

34:29

In April, he was short again and

34:32

rather than face his father, he

34:34

took the car and fled to

34:36

Las Vegas. After

34:38

a few months in Vegas, Gacy

34:40

wanted to go home. Unfortunately,

34:43

even with the separation from his

34:45

father, it was way

34:47

too late for his son to feel

34:49

good about himself, and the

34:51

seeds of psychopathy and sexual

34:54

sadism were already

34:56

germinating. It wouldn't be

34:58

long until John Wayne Gacy

35:00

had developed into a

35:02

full-blown, violent predator.

35:07

Gacy returned to Chicago and attended

35:09

business school. Upon graduation,

35:12

he found success as a

35:14

salesman in a men's clothing

35:16

store. Two years

35:19

later, 22-year-old Gacy moved

35:21

to Springfield, Illinois to manage

35:23

a shoe store, where

35:25

he began to date fellow

35:27

employee Marilyn Meyers.

35:30

Gacy and Marilyn married in September

35:32

of 1964 over

35:35

the objections of her father. Right

35:38

before the wedding, Gacy had

35:40

his first homosexual experience,

35:43

a tryst with a friend

35:46

that he reportedly enjoyed.

35:48

About 18 months later, Marilyn

35:51

gave birth to their son

35:53

and the couple moved to

35:55

Waterloo, Iowa, where Gacy's father-in-law

35:58

owned three KFC French- stores.

36:02

Gacy joined the local chapter of

36:04

the United States Junior Chamber, also

36:06

known as the JC's, a

36:09

leadership training service and civic organization

36:11

for people between the ages of

36:13

18 and 40. Gacy

36:16

fell in with a particular

36:18

group of businessmen in the

36:21

chapter who reveled in life-swapping

36:23

drugs and the

36:25

exchange of pornography. In

36:28

May of 68, two teenage

36:31

boys came forward and told

36:33

their parents that Gacy served

36:35

them alcohol, forced them

36:37

to watch pornographic films and convinced

36:40

them to have sex by

36:43

saying he was a part

36:45

of a psychological research investigation.

36:48

One of the 15-year-old boys told

36:51

his parents about the sexual encounters.

36:54

The father called the police who

36:57

were initially hesitant to believe the

36:59

stories. Gacy had

37:01

impressed them as a hard-working

37:03

businessman and strong community supporter,

37:06

but the county attorney's office

37:08

found other boys who said

37:10

they had been to Gacy's

37:12

house and that Gacy had

37:14

asked them for sexual favors.

37:18

A grand jury heard testimony from

37:20

the two boys and decided to

37:22

indict Gacy. Not

37:25

surprisingly, he maintained his innocence,

37:27

claiming that both teen boys

37:29

had wanted to have sex

37:32

with him. He said

37:35

he had given them drugs,

37:37

pornography and cash and

37:39

now they were blackmailing him.

37:42

And by the way, that is

37:44

a common response on the part

37:47

of the accused when a teenager

37:49

accuses them of sexual advances. A

37:52

few months later, Gacy hired a

37:55

high school senior to beat up

37:57

one of the teen boys. and

38:00

keep him from testifying at

38:02

his trial. The offending

38:04

teen was caught and

38:07

confessed, outing

38:09

Gacy. A

38:13

few months later, Gacy pled guilty

38:15

in relation to one charge of

38:17

sodomy with a 15-year-old boy,

38:20

but pleaded not guilty to

38:22

charges relating to other youths.

38:26

He was convicted and sentenced to

38:28

tenure. He was also

38:30

forced to undergo psychological

38:32

evaluation where the prison

38:35

psychiatrist concluded that

38:37

Gacy exhibited antisocial

38:40

tendencies and

38:42

could not be medically

38:45

cured. I could

38:47

not agree more. His

38:51

wife divorced him while he was

38:54

in prison and permanently

38:56

cut off all contact with

38:58

her and their children.

39:01

Smart lady. In

39:04

prison, Gacy appeared

39:06

to thrive. He

39:09

became the head prison cook and started

39:11

a prison chapter of the J.C.'s

39:15

and completed his high school

39:17

equivalency exam. On

39:20

Christmas Day, later that year,

39:22

Gacy's father died. When

39:24

he was informed a month later, he

39:27

was embittered by the late

39:30

notice and believed

39:32

his father may have

39:34

died of embarrassment over

39:36

his conviction. Afterwards,

39:40

prison officials noted something. Gacy

39:43

had become very physically

39:45

aggressive towards some

39:47

of the prisoners, the homosexual

39:50

ones. Now, you would

39:52

think that Gacy was happy that the

39:54

man who caused him constant fear during

39:56

his childhood was dead, but

39:59

I've seen you Even as happened before, the

40:02

child victim, or who

40:04

was a child, is

40:06

still wrapped up with trying to

40:08

please the abuser, the

40:10

parent, and they blame

40:13

themselves and not their

40:15

abusers. Only

40:19

six months later, after

40:21

serving just 18

40:23

months of a 10-year sentence, Gacy

40:27

was granted early

40:29

release. His

40:31

probation mandated that he live

40:33

with his mother in Chicago

40:36

and adhere to a 10

40:38

p.m. curfew.

40:41

Early in his release, Gacy ignored

40:43

his curfew. He cruised

40:46

around downtown Chicago bus stations

40:49

and an area known as a

40:51

late-night cruising ground for patrons leaving

40:53

the gay bars on Clark Street.

40:57

Only six months after being released from

40:59

prison, a male teenager

41:01

told Chicago PD that Gacy

41:03

picked him up from a

41:05

bus station and tried to

41:07

force him into having sex.

41:10

The charges were dropped when the

41:13

teenager failed to show up to

41:15

testify in court. Somehow,

41:18

the incident escaped the

41:20

Iowa Parole Board's notice,

41:24

which means nobody from

41:26

the Chicago Police Department

41:28

notified Gacy's parole officer.

41:31

But Gacy could not keep

41:33

under wraps his need

41:35

to kidnap, control,

41:37

dominate, rape, torture,

41:40

and kill the object

41:43

of his desire. That

41:46

was an entirely different problem, and

41:49

one detailed in great

41:51

length in the Diagnostic

41:54

Statistical Manual, and

41:56

what he truly wanted to do sexually

41:58

with under a The boys

42:01

was through legal. Very.

42:04

Illegal. Case it:

42:06

so many mental. Disorders

42:08

starting. With Antisocial

42:11

Personality Disorder. Psychopathy.

42:14

Which is an extreme form

42:16

of a. S P D. Substance

42:19

and alcohol abuse disorders,

42:21

Sexual sadism. And

42:23

a feeble Celia which refers

42:25

to an attraction, a sexual.

42:27

Attraction for older adolescence

42:30

around fifteen to eighteen

42:32

years old. Just to

42:34

name a few. But.

42:37

Like I said, See. Really

42:39

to ride? To

42:41

keep those desires as well

42:43

as his emotions suppressed. And

42:46

that in turn further

42:49

repressed. His aggression.

42:52

According to Doctor Jay

42:54

Sparks, author of The

42:56

Will To Kill. That.

42:59

Dynamic is known as the

43:01

frustration aggression hypothesis which basically

43:03

states that when a desired

43:06

goal in Casey's case being

43:08

able to express his true

43:11

sexuality and interact with like

43:13

minded boys and young man.

43:16

Is interfered with by some

43:18

perceived or real. Circumstance.

43:21

In. This case, his father's

43:24

violent disapproval. Loves him. When.

43:26

That happens, an individual

43:29

will develop hostile thoughts

43:31

anne or options. Simply.

43:34

Put. Aggression follows

43:37

the frustration. Of

43:39

someone being denied their attempts

43:41

to achieve. A goal. In.

43:44

D C Case The

43:46

frustration. Rose. From the on

43:48

attain ability of accepting his

43:50

sexual identity and desires. He

43:53

could not have what he truly wanted.

43:56

Acceptance as being a

43:58

gay man and. having homosexual

44:01

relationships. But

44:04

did Gacy direct his aggression towards

44:06

his father? Of course

44:08

not. Kids rarely

44:10

express aggression towards a parent,

44:12

especially one like Gacy's father.

44:16

Somewhere along the line of

44:19

his repressed psychosexual development, probably

44:21

in early puberty, John

44:24

Wayne Gacy's aggressive thoughts and

44:26

feelings became

44:28

inextricably woven

44:31

with sexual arousal and

44:33

pleasure. And that

44:35

is the making of a dangerous

44:38

sexual sadist. So

44:43

what does a sexually repressed man

44:45

in the 60s do? Well,

44:49

he could have lived a single life

44:51

and had the sex life he wanted.

44:54

It would have been a secret life. But

44:57

instead, Gacy married twice and

44:59

had two children. And

45:02

there is more indication to me

45:04

that he did it only to

45:06

provide a respectable cover for

45:09

himself than any

45:11

other reason. In

45:14

the summer of 71, Gacy

45:16

formed his own contracting company.

45:19

It was called PDM

45:21

Contractors for Painting, Decorating,

45:24

and Maintenance. In

45:26

order to store materials for his

45:28

company, he convinced his mother to

45:30

purchase a house in the northern

45:32

suburbs of Chicago. A

45:35

year later, Gacy married Carols

45:37

Foff, a financially destitute single

45:39

mother who brought two young

45:41

daughters to the marriage. She

45:44

had been a friend of Gacy's younger sister

45:47

in high school. Gacy and

45:49

Foff briefly dated when they were 16. Before

45:54

they married, Gacy told her he

45:56

had been arrested for prostitution that

45:58

occurred in a hotel. he

46:00

ran in Iowa. But

46:02

Gacy was financially successful, he was

46:05

kind of her two daughters, and

46:07

Gacy's mother moved out of the

46:10

house to an apartment to make

46:12

room for them. Gacy

46:15

told her and her daughters

46:17

to stay out of

46:19

his garage. One time

46:21

after Gacy left the garage with

46:24

a teenage boy, she

46:26

snuck inside. There

46:28

was a mattress on the ground, a

46:31

red light, and some

46:33

bikini bottom underwear. Later,

46:37

under the kitchen sink, she

46:40

found magazines featuring naked men.

46:42

One of the pictures was a

46:44

young man who appeared to have

46:47

blood on his body. Whatever

46:50

sexual intimacy they might have

46:52

had declined and

46:54

eventually ceased altogether.

47:00

Ten months later, she could not

47:02

take it any longer and told

47:04

John that she wanted a divorce

47:06

and claimed mental cruelty. Because

47:09

Gacy was a good talker and charming,

47:12

he came across as a nice

47:14

guy. He was active in

47:17

the community and local politics and loved

47:19

to do the clown thing at gatherings.

47:21

And this was how he was

47:23

able to manipulate people in

47:26

his orbit. He

47:28

hosted block parties and he liked

47:30

to dress as Pogo the clown

47:32

and entertain children. But

47:35

in reality, Gacy, like

47:38

most psychopaths, was

47:40

only superficially charming. There

47:43

is no sincerity,

47:46

true warmth or depth

47:48

to the personality of

47:50

a psychopath. They

47:52

know what to say and how to

47:55

say it to appear normal and

47:57

they have a lot of people fool.

48:01

Gacy had no remorse at all for any

48:04

of his 33 victims.

48:06

They were nothing more to him

48:08

than props. In fact, that's

48:11

what we all are to psychopaths.

48:14

Props in their shallow yet

48:17

dangerous world. John

48:19

Wayne Gacy was caught because he

48:22

fell into the trap most serial

48:24

killers do. He

48:26

became sloppy, careless.

48:29

He got lazy and

48:31

impatient. When Gacy

48:34

picked up Robert Peast, he

48:36

did so with multiple witnesses

48:39

able to identify him. And

48:42

Gacy knew that the

48:44

boy's mother was at the pharmacy

48:46

waiting for her son. But

48:49

his drive or his need for

48:51

murder was so great that

48:53

he could not help himself. And

48:56

he was narcissistic enough to

48:58

believe that he would not

49:01

get caught. For

49:03

six years, Gacy

49:05

was able to escape detection.

49:08

And by the time he was caught, his

49:11

known victim count was 33. All

49:16

boys and young men who

49:18

fell prey to a smooth

49:21

talking clown. With

49:27

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stand tall. constantcontact.com. At

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3.20 a.m., December 22, 1978, with his two lawyers, six

50:37

Displeens police officers, and

50:46

two state's attorneys present, Gacy

50:48

admitted to killing approximately 30

50:50

to 32 individuals. Police

50:55

took Gacy to the house to show

50:57

them where the bodies were buried, but

50:59

once he saw the mess that law enforcement

51:01

had made in his house, he

51:04

refused to cooperate. Police

51:07

moved forward with the excavation anyway,

51:09

and over the next four months,

51:11

29 bodies were removed

51:15

from Gacy's home, and

51:17

four more recovered from the rivers.

51:20

In the second week of January, 1979, a

51:24

grand jury indicted Gacy on the murder

51:26

of the six victims that had

51:28

been identified so far, and

51:31

also for the murder of

51:33

Robert Peest. By

51:35

this time, Gacy had recanted his

51:37

confession. He maintained that there

51:40

were several people who had access to

51:42

his home while he was out of

51:44

town on business, including two of the

51:46

teenagers that worked for him. That

51:49

winter delivered record snowfalls and

51:52

low temperatures, freezing the

51:54

ground and making it harder to

51:57

excavate. As they found

51:59

bodies, families were members with missing

52:01

sons came forward with dental

52:03

records and x-rays. Some

52:05

finally learning the fate of their

52:07

loved ones who had been missing

52:10

for years. Bodies were

52:12

sometimes buried one on top

52:14

of another making it difficult

52:16

to keep victims remains intact

52:19

which further complicated the

52:21

identification process. On

52:26

April 9th 1979 Rob

52:29

Peace's body was recovered from the

52:31

Dresden Dam about 65 miles

52:34

south of Des Plaines. One

52:37

of the last pieces of evidence recovered

52:39

from Gacy's house was

52:41

Rob's light blue nylon

52:43

parka. The next

52:45

day Des Plaines police demolished

52:48

the home. By this

52:50

time 24 of the 33 bodies were identified. On

52:52

June 21st

52:57

1981 the nine

52:59

unidentified victims were buried

53:01

in separate cemeteries with simple

53:04

stones marking their graves.

53:07

Three of those victims would be

53:09

identified at later dates. After

53:12

his confession Gacy was taken

53:15

to the medical wing of the

53:17

jail for evaluation. The

53:19

chief psychologist of the Cook County

53:21

Court's forensic clinic found Gacy had

53:24

a quote psychopathic,

53:26

anti-social personality with

53:29

sexual deviation. He

53:32

further noted that he had

53:34

hysterical personality and minor compulsive

53:36

and paranoid personality elements. However

53:39

this did not meet the

53:42

legal criteria for mentally incompetent

53:45

and he was cleared to stand

53:47

trial. Prosecutors moved

53:49

to try Gacy on all 33 deaths

53:52

in one trial. The

53:54

victims had all been murdered between 1972 and

53:56

1978. and

54:00

were all between the ages of 14 and 21. Seven

54:06

of the cases qualified for the death

54:08

penalty, which had been reinstated in Illinois

54:10

in 1974. Gacy's

54:17

trial began in February of 1980 and lasted six

54:19

weeks. On

54:23

March 12th, the jury was out for an

54:25

hour and 45 minutes. And

54:28

when the verdict came back, all

54:30

12 jurors found him

54:32

guilty. The next day

54:34

on March 13th, Gacy

54:36

was sentenced to death. He

54:39

was sent to the Menard Correctional

54:42

Center near Chester, Illinois, where

54:44

he lived on death row for the next 14 years.

54:49

Gacy received more mail than any

54:51

other inmate at the prison, and

54:54

he answered nearly all of it.

54:57

Callers to his 900 phone line paid $23.88 to listen

54:59

to the full 12 minutes of his recorded denial of

55:01

the crime. Gacy

55:09

also began producing paintings of

55:11

his Pogo the Clown character,

55:14

which he sold to the public. The

55:17

state sued to collect

55:19

about $140,000 from the

55:21

phone call revenue and

55:23

his painting sales to

55:25

pay for his incarceration. The

55:28

state eventually dropped the suit and the

55:30

funds went to his two children,

55:32

two stepchildren, and

55:35

his surviving sister. Shortly

55:38

after midnight on May

55:40

10th, 1994, all

55:42

of John Wayne Gacy's appeals

55:44

had run out, and the

55:47

52-year-old was put to death

55:49

by lethal injection at the

55:52

Stateville Penitentiary in Illinois. Next

55:56

time on Killer Psyche, we will speak

55:59

to Karen Conte. Gacy's

56:01

attorney during the appeals process,

56:04

she will tell us what he was

56:06

like personally and what it was like

56:08

to represent him. Hey

56:11

Prime members, you can listen to Killer

56:13

Psyche ad free on Amazon Music. Download

56:16

the Amazon Music app today or

56:19

you can listen ad free

56:21

with Wondery Plus in Apple

56:23

Podcasts. Before you go, tell

56:26

us about yourself by completing

56:28

a short survey at wondery.com/survey.

56:38

For Wondery entry for media, this

56:40

is Killer Psyche. I'm

56:42

your host, Candice DeLong. This

56:45

episode was written and produced by

56:47

Lisa Ammerman and Julie Burke. Ann

56:50

Liu is our producer and Jayda

56:52

Williams is our associate producer. Story

56:55

research and additional writings by Ann

56:58

Liu, Will Christian, and Jayda Williams.

57:01

Mix and sound design by

57:03

Matt Vison, Abigail Sullivan, and

57:05

Erin Bauman. Head of

57:08

audio, Tom Monahan with

57:10

audio assistance from Masusu

57:12

Enaga. For Wondery,

57:15

Anthony Walchmeen and Claire Chambers

57:17

are producers. And Calum

57:19

Flug is senior management assistant. The

57:22

executive and charger production for Tree

57:25

Fork is Oscar Gato. And

57:27

the co-executive producer is Julie

57:29

Burke. Lastly, our

57:31

executive producers are Kelly Garner and

57:34

Lisa Ammerman for Tree Fork. And

57:36

Marshall Louie, Morgan Jones, and

57:38

Erin O'F for

57:48

Tree Fork Media. Cox

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