0:04

welcome keith i'm a girl, i'm keith maley

0:06

of

0:07

story about alan that road

0:10

in elin to

0:12

do the remind

0:13

me, please all right,

0:15

ellen got a divorce a

0:17

year ago and then six months ago she

0:19

started dating a new the

0:22

relationship of the divorce

0:24

has a five year old they still

0:27

co-parent here in again maybe taking them to

0:29

the movies are and the

0:31

new relationship is having issues

0:33

with her being

0:35

with that other guy because he thinks

0:38

that she might have feelings for him and he

0:40

needs to separate and parent on her own

0:42

and they're divorced and then

0:44

comes to find out who our forums and the feedback

0:46

after that so when he

0:48

called parents with his ex

0:51

he's the one who's ceiling that kind of

0:53

way

0:53

in a day that's the update i want to tell

0:55

you who elland road on the forums

0:58

ah see here

0:59

our here

1:01

the putting my daughter front side away

1:03

i've step kids in saw that

1:05

part when you're not include

1:07

li said i also

1:09

think that putting my daughter first is the only racing

1:11

the do of course another reason we

1:13

spend time together is also because it's

1:16

spends time with the axis because axis have

1:18

the child almost all the time due to the father's

1:21

work schedules since he only stays with

1:23

him every other weekend i think it's important for both

1:25

of them to seats other plus we live

1:27

ten minutes away new boyfriend

1:29

thinks it's a bad excuse as

1:31

i said just leave her there for a few hours without

1:34

actually doing in

1:35

the for the time being super hyper sensitive

1:38

about the holes one parent leaving parts

1:40

so i've a complete breakdown until i retire

1:42

i'm going to give her time to adjust to the new situations

1:45

and make sure she gets time with that

1:48

and regarding him projecting about

1:50

his own behavior around the zack's yep

1:52

even though it's been ten years since third divorced

1:55

he says that he still notice a small sparks

1:58

when he's around earth that reminds them

2:00

of why they got together in the first place

2:03

how would you even say that if that's true

2:05

get isn't there a pissed why would you even say

2:08

that's the pets

2:10

or kyle said to me

2:12

you're the one of my exes

2:15

loser is not around but once in awhile

2:18

you see this this next so it's like

2:20

i get why loved you and

2:22

i'm like thanks for the honesty the

2:25

tunnel and i would sooner say

2:28

i get why don't have to look

2:30

at my child and he you more

2:32

heavy illinois ah he says

2:34

he still notices the small parts of

2:36

sparks hence why hence doesn't believe

2:38

that there's nothing there's when i spend time with my

2:41

while we all news jealousy or trust

2:43

tracks is tracks testimony such

2:45

as such as relationship and you're doing so

2:47

much adults in right now interact as a

2:49

voice and with the child is

2:51

it required item to me is you have a child

2:54

the question is are we thinking of the child

2:56

are we thinking about you know how much time we

2:58

did spend with each other the august other nonsense

3:01

that's too hard boyfriend is a sensitive

3:03

musician senses of

3:05

always sounds like me to me right and this guy doesn't

3:08

sound to me to me

3:10

the sensitive sounds like

3:12

that turning your words around to make it

3:14

seem like he saying right boyfriend

3:16

is a sense to me this in is going through his own

3:18

said to to depressant some

3:20

try to be understanding and give

3:22

some slack but this whole thing about making demands

3:25

about the way i handled my broken family stops

3:27

and might be the nail in the coffin

3:30

and i said i did we need to hear his music

3:32

first that would make your favorite player by the

3:34

way an empty threats

3:36

a lot of people get away with the law

3:38

for charisma news and says

3:40

yeah eg most likely enjoy

3:42

his music she said to me the lawyer

3:45

weldon look like so yes so let me

3:47

add onto the list by the way she writes

3:49

by mentioning that he's a anti vax

3:53

i am

3:55

gave me herpes read

3:58

or who's the as so she said

3:59

they think the answer is i'm an asshole to

4:02

myself at

4:04

it is guy good luck

4:06

now you're

4:08

free and i can respect you alan good

4:10

because of the free would run into a party and awesome

4:13

over young and i see you

4:15

on him and i'll be let go of

4:17

their respects either of you so this limited

4:19

area

4:20

very difficult realization

4:23

and to do that via email with a thank

4:25

him for

4:26

though you

4:29

and you're welcome

4:30

the of course yes thank you end up and all the

4:32

time as know what again drug companies

4:34

you're gonna be you're going to be just fights at

4:36

today's guest and the has a fascinating story

4:39

ah was in prison for

4:41

system barely twenty years

4:44

twenty years in prison get

4:46

saudis talking about prison reform and

4:48

though we saw my line of thought the whole thing was thus

4:51

very very interesting jesse cross and

4:53

how you doing jesse don't well

4:55

what about yourself as a hey

4:57

what are we going to say what are we gonna see another see

4:59

another on earth rights se sorry what's this

5:02

you have been added prisons and will cover the whole

5:04

thing of course for a year it'll be

5:06

year what yesterday just as your

5:08

yesterday were happy anniversary

5:10

aid kit thank you

5:12

how do we even know what you tube

5:15

it's a steep learning curve they

5:17

emit it's funny cause inside everybody talked

5:20

about social media the new kids are common in were like

5:22

of like why would you sit there and looks your phone there's

5:24

a world in their girls in their things to do

5:26

and now i get out nice their my phone all

5:28

day and i'm like i've like become a young

5:30

okay this isn't good on him and

5:32

now if you're hearing and i know if i was listening

5:35

and in though the store had the like he got to get

5:37

right away with this guy did wrong to be imprisoned

5:39

that sounds like a defender on this guy sites

5:42

he killed multiple little babies but here's

5:44

the thing the sas dating and i'm just

5:46

getting i eased you

5:48

you are you finished high school

5:51

very good in school

5:53

that was pretty good in school you went to college

5:55

she took a year off now is that what

5:57

people do are doing that in school

5:59

the to europe before college obliterated

6:02

all it's okay and

6:04

i mean i have good grades i graduated in

6:06

i was on the i was under a track i just didn't

6:08

know what i was going i was gonna searching for something i was

6:10

really running from sometimes easiest for explanation

6:13

the idea been in a classroom studying some

6:15

i didn't care about basically depressed and last

6:17

distancing by appealing swear i thought

6:20

i'd go and see the world instead i wound found

6:22

campaign and that was the beginning of the and how thought

6:24

where did you them to see the were that

6:26

in i didn't even make it out of the city outside of atlanta

6:29

take it before they have a week off and were i

6:31

got arrested all i had to do was get on the plane

6:33

another this will happen and i didn't get on that plane

6:35

at first because we're running late and i was finally

6:38

get everything organized in as the end i was with why

6:40

can't do this like if i leave like who's your take her

6:42

my customers and like where am i going to get my stuff or

6:44

minutes i was in this complete state

6:46

of insanity that led me to not get

6:48

on a plane to see somebody was really important me

6:50

instead to stay in a in a trashy hotel

6:52

room where i was holed up you know with guns

6:54

and is it's just i was out of my mind

6:57

how long did it

6:58

from point a to this point

7:00

three months from like taking a year off from college

7:03

work in a couple of side jobs enjoying things to

7:05

just completely farrell in a hotel room

7:07

a out of my mind the know what would how

7:09

many guns when you say guns multiple

7:12

i why had a pistol like i'd with me always but we had

7:14

a when we get arrested i think there were four guns or

7:16

five runs in the house when you and and customers

7:18

to be clear your taxes and not some other business

7:21

yeah okay i'm not

7:23

an entourage and i'm from our economic health

7:25

he was a consistent basis

7:27

where our one was the first time he did

7:29

cocaine that did read at a high school

7:31

i didn't done it ah

7:33

i think maybe in high school and but i know is over that summer

7:36

but i never had a connection it was one other things were like iran

7:38

is somebody who had some and it was as soon as i

7:40

got a connection that was where that the clock started

7:42

that with the three months from narrative just ruin

7:44

on be before that you know where to get it or maybe

7:46

i could have called around that office and i started working construction

7:49

job and a guy who drove me to work everyday

7:51

was a co felix so everyday was a kid

7:53

wants to have this liquor and i'm thinking about what

7:55

a nice guy like you know bottle and little

7:57

i know after have given him everything and like you

7:59

know

7:59

the everything over on i understand his game

8:03

who okay so you when you say connection

8:06

it's so funny i'm like oh

8:08

the drugs into nexus your brain until

8:10

he tried it several times i

8:12

on a different business as

8:14

a through like on your you're right nostril you

8:16

tried and then yes i can and civil and

8:18

right right ones yeah so

8:21

until you until you had someone

8:23

to call to get it for you have a steady supply

8:25

area murray are you with

8:27

saas because you're all fucked up

8:30

a it's it's easy what's obama do

8:32

our i'll sell cocaine they

8:34

they go i wouldn't live in a matter of like choice

8:37

are planning it was i , have enough

8:39

money to buy the cocaine that i need to maintain my

8:41

habit and i don't have a job is going to make

8:43

enough money but if i can sell it than i can see him a little

8:45

bit off the top is one and make enough money to support my

8:47

own habits and by the end i would a guy for

8:49

six ounces go up because i had to stop me from every

8:51

else and i couldn't colony but exam are looking for me to get

8:54

me or you know that money for me still a guy

8:56

had burned every bridge because there was no way to support

8:58

my job is done so out of control with

9:00

anybody anybody measures like i

9:02

i i can relate because i would still kebab

9:04

as a waiter our seats person saying they go

9:06

now my habits complete and they

9:08

paid me these fucking idiots who

9:12

did anybody ever met him away as

9:14

and yeah that lady as

9:16

i can say like and and i met i served

9:19

in our math users like probiotics a really

9:21

really a particular about their quantity over quality

9:23

what is it but i always would say it's like looking at it

9:25

stepped on would you have the right way beyond a bunch of crap

9:28

american get a word that made you to god

9:30

with much rather have a threat

9:33

no at the okay so you're

9:36

on cocaine is that what gives you

9:38

the

9:39

you came so comfortable in the criminal

9:41

behavior so quickly there's

9:44

in the movies at least as a mantises it

9:46

it feels like it's

9:47

the montage amount of time together

9:49

it's with the guns in the whole of

9:52

the know

9:53

what i think we as if you're lying around i'm

9:55

hundred i'm sides as it is a

9:57

gun even then that sabo

10:00

so if you imagine like a rational decisions

10:02

being made i think that's the number one things we have a stop

10:05

on punishment stance in this country where like if we punish

10:07

people hard enough the rationally decide not to commit

10:09

crimes this with know if you're talking about a fairly

10:11

animal when you put my choices in front of him an awesome

10:13

dislike is gonna fight you like that would fairly

10:15

animals do if you've been in a place where

10:17

you been completely lost in completely out here mining

10:20

completely like driven by impulse none

10:22

of these things know the frontal cortex you know considerations

10:24

come into play and a gun isn't about read status

10:27

or coolness were adaptation it's about

10:29

safety and fear and terror and

10:31

just feeling completely like are under attack

10:33

by the world

10:34

how often did you have see you

10:36

the day

10:37

i don't know that i ever had to use the

10:39

guns but i used out so

10:42

the first time he is anyone to present

10:45

how would that bad luck

10:47

or are you just is it was going to

10:49

end of that way like a week later anyway

10:52

i think it was gonna end up that way when my dad i mean

10:54

biggest a yeah i had an ego like everybody else

10:56

i was out of my mind if it's a combination of terror

10:58

and then my caufield you know confidence or believe

11:00

in myself i which is a terrible combination

11:03

is like if i just felt completely worthless or i had

11:05

strong sense of self worth either those extremes have

11:07

been good but the mix was really dangerous is

11:10

now that leads the the the big

11:12

things were a

11:15

house robbery right ah

11:17

where the people in the house we

11:19

didn't think so but someone was the made reserve

11:22

sit and watch and him what he has to do

11:24

that why didn't do

11:26

anything micro defendant that a gun interface insider

11:28

up and settling in the abduction charge

11:31

which is yeah i mean you think what the consequences

11:33

that in our mind we had already built it up is

11:35

like a robin hood thing is my throat offended

11:37

work for them said they're terrible people they only hire

11:39

illegal immigrants and they'll pay him anything in the keep all

11:41

the money they're supposed to make him a haven't task and we still

11:43

from them so that really like stealing from in a good

11:46

people it's like stealing from criminals were like oh

11:48

yeah that sounds justifiable during his mother's

11:50

telling necessary delusions read and

11:52

you can either of the people

11:53

wire is

11:55

the person who's person who's talking about that

11:58

he's it's pretending to liberate

11:59

the play rod yeah very

12:02

true like the irony is is i hadn't

12:04

thought about it in those terms but yeah it was a truly

12:06

horrible thing slide in know

12:08

a part of it

12:11

they do everything she must be feeling

12:13

away now that you're out

12:15

i don't know ah i

12:17

thought about that cause for that and for the shooting which was

12:19

the other side of it i haven't had any contact with

12:21

the victims and because a quarter is are not allowed to like

12:23

i can't reach out to her asker you know inquired

12:25

the subway fare right and own he has

12:28

a mean no i think i think it's really fair

12:30

and the weight set up his they

12:32

can request like interaction and they can

12:34

request with a call the victim impact like it's consolidation

12:37

programs where we would go and i would be able

12:39

to make amends and like we would go to try to find some kind

12:41

of resolution or but i can initiate

12:43

contact which again i think is very responsible because

12:45

of somebody was interested i think that restorative justice

12:48

programs can be amazing but

12:50

if someone's not a facility can be incredibly dramatic

12:53

it in any the other big thing

12:55

was you're being chased his

12:57

the it's car chase yeah

13:00

and you're shooting back with your gun right

13:03

ah word was this i

13:05

was as a civilian for lack of better words was

13:07

this trouble also

13:09

this a

13:11

man or only rubble but that doesn't justify

13:13

what idea that there's a tendency to say oh well

13:15

it was another criminal so it's okay i mean i

13:18

don't think what i did objectively

13:20

was out of a place of fear and terror and like

13:22

feeling like feeling was under attack with that

13:24

doesn't make it okay because i put myself in that position

13:27

of being strung out on drugs and outta my mind and not

13:29

an irrational mean i don't know are asking

13:31

did you weren't worth outside

13:33

people invited to this

13:36

sudden it's hard to see nowhere when

13:38

when the robbery happen an outside person

13:40

basically got involved here

13:42

was it issued a monk

13:45

is criminals been criminals

13:47

yeah the latter without minimizing

13:49

it yes this disdaining a picture

13:51

of and is it the people that you title

13:54

rob wow it was so i'd gotten

13:56

involved because of actually

13:58

sit these two guys and when i got it from somebody

14:00

and sold it to my friend who sold smith and

14:03

then they wanted it mack and they said whatever

14:05

and to they threatened him and then one night they went to

14:07

his house where his girlfriend was and they were

14:09

threatening her and saying oh you better bring us a gonna bring

14:11

his money or bring his coke and because i had

14:13

begun and because i was in ocala my mother doesn't

14:15

play the hero and get on the phones they all y'all want to

14:17

leave the scene that and well for you and

14:20

who had back and forth and so on each other in agreed to meet

14:22

and when we met it was like one of those brief moments of

14:25

clarity like this like this terrible idea like

14:27

whatever i think i'm doing a whoever i think i am

14:29

i'm clearly not and so i lost and they

14:31

chased me and as they were chasing me you know they

14:33

were kind of like acting like they're going around the car and mean

14:35

going back and forth and when the passage or reached every shoulder

14:37

to grab something in my mind is going to have a gun

14:40

i'm so i pulled up a gun the they've stolen shot

14:42

them with it which is unfortunate

14:45

that you didn't kill anybody can record right

14:47

i did not go anybody know where they both wounded

14:50

there were about going to how bad like

14:52

those the end of the car and says there

14:55

was even a gorgeous yeah they did not continue sit

14:57

are you good shot the

15:01

there's no conscious like at i actually thought

15:03

to a police officer about this was an officer involved

15:05

shootings and he's like i wasn't

15:07

thinking like that with your training all those years i was my

15:09

screaming a my eyes were closed my shoulders

15:11

returns and that's what it was for me like i wasn't even

15:13

looking i was looking across a like

15:15

my body are reaching across my body and just

15:17

literally screaming and like driving tears

15:20

itemize

15:20

wait for you didn't have time to say he became

15:22

minister for , hour was that

15:24

was after okay how many

15:27

and marisa is

15:31

do you look at action movie the little bit different

15:34

life as didn't have time for joking

15:35

right now to decline

15:37

pretty much the i bet those

15:40

are the movies what i see movies where there's just like tremendous

15:42

drama i was i tried to watch one sandra

15:44

bullock they're like movie which is gonna prisons have family

15:46

size vacuum i cannot exist me

15:49

up so bad am i get another

15:51

yesterday

15:52

and i imagine that that is the most

15:54

reality where she is the quietest

15:57

see citizen citizen goal for

15:59

me

15:59

see this is the

16:03

have it is

16:05

you to a so unbelievably it was hard

16:07

to as soon as the movies

16:08

you've made side note leads to talk about people

16:10

who don't exist hum

16:12

he really sandra bullock is the one

16:14

getting out of prison and she looks like she actually

16:17

came out of prison as much as beautiful

16:19

movie star it looks like you know and oh my god

16:21

the real about this okay but

16:23

the whole time i'm thinking she's the movie

16:25

star i know i'm going to be on her side eventually

16:28

i wanted to hate her as much as they

16:30

wanted me to hate her of friends but

16:32

it was difficult because i know she's miss congeniality

16:35

she's while you were sleeping et al and

16:37

i'll just lay a lot of you

16:40

he accepted that this that this you not gonna

16:42

fall down and go a little but i

16:44

know that entity end of this is this gonna

16:47

be a reason and we say that yourself is

16:49

that am i correct is

16:51

that a little bit more what

16:53

happened

16:55

that was the i was about a third a waiter movie

16:57

and headed turn it off exam a shake in it's a

16:59

was that real money kneeling

17:01

enter would he would he do that that because you

17:03

just got out of craven and any

17:05

was done it while you in prison

17:07

a lot of people get themselves

17:09

into

17:09

what i call because you

17:11

know marvel or dc or whatever call hulk mode

17:14

how do you do feel the hulk most coming

17:16

on anymore

17:19

not so much and it's minnesota

17:22

things where the anxiety comes up when i try not

17:24

allow it sorted action and that's when there isn't meditation

17:27

was so important from like the kind of development

17:29

process because i used to just rats and the my whole life

17:31

with me just being a pinball of whatever environment

17:33

i was in i reacted based on that first

17:35

impulse and learning that there can be a break

17:37

between that you know that stimulus and response like

17:39

later frankel said that was really my learning process

17:42

but i still get triggered like when we go into public places

17:44

are we get there said local concert every friday

17:46

where i live and to go down there and have always

17:48

drunk and people bumping into making noise it's like nope

17:50

i set my back to the wall and and i leave because mysticism

17:53

unaware that will you brought up the word

17:55

trauma have you did you realize what you're

17:57

trauma was to do drugs or does

17:59

drugs so fuck an awesome pretty

18:01

good i think it's a combination

18:04

i don't think that anybody dives into

18:06

them into that kind of lifestyle getting

18:09

this is this is this is our boy's family we

18:11

talk about like the goldilocks of drama like

18:13

we want to find somebody was enough trauma that we couldn't

18:15

understand and talk about it or not so much that

18:17

are just completely out of their minds will send us a

18:19

little the you feel like they've been a c p a since

18:22

they were three is somehow know how

18:24

and that i don't bother me out and the meanwhile

18:26

right i

18:28

mean that there was definitely some drama there are death i've been

18:30

in therapy for last fifteen years

18:33

i've been working with abs and teacher i've been working with like

18:35

a group of people use i recognize are some

18:37

fundamental issues that are going on and

18:39

so i deal with that like this like this be there like if

18:41

i'm not doing drugs and just eating ice cream from

18:43

madagascar him and be exercising maniacal

18:45

you're doing committing acts a self harm like until

18:47

i get to the bottom of this i'm going to continue to be played by

18:50

and it and have become to a conclusion

18:53

in that regard i

18:55

just started doing a i have s like internal

18:57

family systems therapy which has been probably the most

18:59

effective it like recognizing with those patterns

19:01

are in the inside like that little kitten seven who's

19:04

just not okay and like you know there's some personal

19:06

reasons why is not okay and that you know little kid

19:08

is thirteen and is just angry the world and and

19:10

trust anybody in recognizing when those voices

19:12

come up on the inside and yeah i mean there was

19:14

there was some drama there i think it's we have

19:16

a tendency to think of trauma is exclusively like physical

19:19

or sexual i i found that

19:21

emotional trauma can be far more like damaging

19:23

and play games like you can break bones and the hillbilly

19:25

kubrick emotions and you break arts and it like takes

19:27

a lot longer to put that back together do you think

19:30

about being a parent tell how much work that

19:32

would be meaning ah

19:34

, dad was in such an asshole luckily

19:36

as siblings had each other to talk to wins

19:38

in about cats right now my

19:40

girls of his relatives that that

19:42

a killer of my my girlfriend's

19:45

kid says is ago two teenagers

19:47

some of them and does and that's

19:49

oh okay and it's her

19:51

fault she gave two months was like is

19:53

months was anything we can do i

19:56

think there is i think a the first thing

19:58

to take care of ourselves i look at people

20:00

of sacrifice themselves for their kids were done it in

20:02

a martyred like way and then they end up you know tremendously

20:05

guilty and frustrated and you know unhappy

20:07

with the world think the best thing we can do is model

20:09

healthy behavior and i think that's the hardest thing for most

20:11

people though the you start there and

20:13

then yeah you show up a new you with said attention

20:16

and you guys give attention and you set boundaries

20:18

anything to do these things consistently net and mean

20:20

your kids can be grade is not gonna like necessarily

20:22

when the word be the most balance because you have all the

20:24

biochemical factors that come in with the me

20:26

it's like if you can have that consistent whole

20:28

than i am i from and form thera

20:30

talks about this like the most important thing in the face trauma

20:32

is having at least one consistent adult figure than

20:34

child and writers closer that one person

20:37

whether to teacher upon an uncle or a neighborhood

20:39

whatever like sponsors one person

20:41

that tends to give them a much greater chance of being

20:44

able to get through that rom without being scarred by are marked

20:46

by a by for life and if you don't have that

20:48

you're trying to put that together later you have to be

20:50

that parent or that at all to yourself later

20:52

in life and that's a really hard process like

20:54

hold all those in a mess of kids are inside

20:56

you and let a note going to be okay when you

20:58

think your hypothetical kid is gonna

21:01

take copious sit him down go only

21:03

in the house with yes father

21:06

and thankfully not having

21:08

kids are i spent a lotta years planning

21:10

on having kids but i only got up to that age twelve

21:13

and like in my mind and in my plantings i end

21:15

up ever had and so i

21:17

have i have i have who i'm has like

21:19

really struggled with things in her life and is probably the best

21:21

parent i've ever seen her daughter's just amazing

21:23

and like really put together and it's been a process

21:26

where she's just been really open and honest with her about the way

21:28

and she said really firm boundaries until the point is

21:30

it okay it's like you're fourteen hours if you want

21:32

to try drinking like okay you can try these

21:34

are the context in which i think it's okay these are when it's not

21:37

like the ones are bought the like if i hear that he didn't tell

21:39

by your best doing else like you're not leaving this house ever

21:41

again you're going to and in on the whole his arm

21:43

and i think in a way yeah having a balance

21:46

of like understanding communication and having really

21:48

firm boundaries were you see a danger we

21:50

don't just react and say don't do this you say here's

21:52

why i'm worried about you doing this and this is

21:54

example this is my own experience and explaining

21:56

that i think is really important is

21:58

a funny i feel like

21:59

yeah

22:00

that he would come out of bud prison

22:03

just the be bark and like a dog but apparently

22:05

he's been doing some work and present you guys do like

22:07

the rehearsal sniffles

22:10

now take care your kid a little vet now the

22:12

this the dates and field herself so

22:14

that is that you are at as

22:16

he eyes as is confused are you surprised

22:18

well adjusted asinine he knew the guy

22:20

does a some more work on themselves and those people

22:23

need to got out of jail or prison prison

22:25

riot a year ago me

22:28

neither from i realized early on i could i

22:30

could be really good prisoner i could get all the tattoos

22:32

i could join a gang i could do everything or allow me to

22:34

be successful in there or i could use this

22:36

is a monster the cb the place where i grow mentally

22:38

and physically and emotionally in every way possible

22:41

and become is prepared for life or parenthood

22:43

or whatever situation as possible and i too was

22:45

awesome be because i don't want to be did prisoner like

22:47

the only guy like that and him anywhere

22:49

but sweden has been assigned you raid and

22:52

any chance to that i mean you're at the

22:54

lowest a bunch of your one minute videos

22:56

it is amazing because you can't

22:58

fill in prison you're still going to

23:00

see how to make a nice at

23:02

of jolly rancher and you're still going

23:04

to see that that people are trying to get

23:07

high when there's a drought said their drugs and things

23:09

like that it it amazing

23:11

how you tell these stories in one minute

23:13

i say like i was not i know whole

23:15

and i could you need going unbelievable

23:18

can we talk about some of those experiences sir

23:20

to be a bit later though when i say twenty

23:22

years he pleads guilty easy

23:24

knows asia that's

23:28

a to thirteen years you're supposed to get for some

23:30

reason that they they say

23:32

it's then the sixteen years he can get the judge

23:34

says that wouldn't any these numbers mean

23:37

a bigger than the six day it's over six states

23:40

amateur double that at all i don't like drugs and

23:42

susan

23:43

the admin the word that i don't know

23:45

i will know where the laws there but okay did

23:47

you have a public defender by the way

23:49

over and laureate able to pay

23:52

to turn if we had we had mother see her

23:54

i'm ever writing him years later when i was putting my clemency

23:56

person and he said us he said like your cases

23:58

one that i think back on like the want to i felt

24:00

like there was just a fundamental miscarriage of justice

24:02

and i don't you just tell that always clients easy

24:05

, i'm in the right you can i haven't ever around the

24:07

only commissary can you put no money my

24:09

account he says area i have no

24:11

reason i feel right yeah i'm really glad

24:13

you're coming out a yours was a key

24:15

size totally is was

24:17

hey not my fault smit make your kids with

24:20

autism yours because those suits people

24:22

with only ones that you don't give

24:24

your money back when they fucked up

24:26

mr

24:28

so and so the thirty or thirty

24:30

two years you

24:32

apply for clemency isn't something node

24:36

i'm a big it's great knows but it would piss me off

24:38

you apply for clemency you get his

24:40

you know hey i'm i'm a good the i'm a good

24:43

prisoner and they you don't have for

24:45

all rules in my state what state madeleine

24:48

virginia virginia is that true

24:50

they don't offer pearl are just no parole

24:52

for anyone sent us after ninety five a

24:54

but ah well it's been twenty years and here's

24:56

the stuff i learned and they go okay

24:59

you can get out all of a sudden you're you're you're

25:01

when you find out it it it's like

25:03

a you have an hour warning you know what i mean

25:05

you're not able to necessarily i'm

25:08

a just doesn't the off like off like

25:10

i could have filled out the right forum years

25:12

earlier now because

25:15

it was a perfect storm it wouldn't have happened or

25:17

founder almost every administration before this

25:19

one maybe like five or six guys get

25:21

clemency at the end of their term for political reasons

25:23

or for you know to satisfy some suburbs

25:26

but it wasn't it wasn't a practicing like when i put

25:28

in i didn't put it in with expectation of actually

25:30

getting it's i'll put it in is gonna like an active

25:33

recognizing that i can do all the work i can buy cakes

25:35

draw the album does it i am i going to spend the

25:37

rest of his time in prison i'm gonna do everything i can

25:39

so i can only sleep at night knowing that i'm here basically

25:41

against my will have done everything i can i can rest

25:44

the know that i i didn't set aside let this happen

25:46

and then you know i'd courtney

25:49

i was interviewed by local reporter which was really strange

25:51

and all of sudden like i'm and all this talk and

25:53

i got an article published in and people are asking

25:55

about my face with post and like all these things are kind of

25:57

going out there to the world and i'm having people returns

26:00

motor sports you can we write a letter how can we help

26:02

and it just grew and it is terribly citywide community

26:04

wide thing that was really bizarre in a sort of thing like well

26:06

maybe this is possibility i don't think so and

26:09

then the governor that we had now or did the governor

26:11

that with release me he granted more pardons

26:13

in every governor in virginia history combined this

26:16

was not like a normal practice is was

26:18

just incredibly like a fluke arm and

26:21

a lot of things i've done that it it's so funny we were

26:23

part of a peer support mental health program

26:25

in prison that everybody else talk crap

26:27

about like as a terrible idea why you do in

26:29

that way doing their jobs with these people don't care about

26:31

you and of the sets of as a starter that program

26:34

three of us counterpart the all those guys

26:36

are a dog rabbit or like our way maybe i should do

26:38

something for the right reason rather than like you know

26:40

looking down on it's and i really actually like

26:42

that idea because i think that encourages people

26:44

to take advantage of opportunities in the show up

26:47

and in a be of sport not necessarily because

26:49

it's getting ill get them partner gets amounts of

26:51

because a reason i say if i do good things i have a

26:53

lot more opportunities for good things in my life right

26:55

now you mention that courtney asymmetrical

26:58

from right it is the girlfriend

27:00

you had while you're in prison that look at that

27:02

this is always amazed

27:05

it's of all the peoples listener

27:07

onerous right now because they can find that stuff but

27:10

never mind them right let's focus on us

27:12

that's about us ah how did

27:14

you get a girlfriend imprisoned

27:16

that's the mo i mean i heard

27:19

a few relationships over the years like through pen

27:21

pals through friends of friends you

27:23

know as the best wagon described is courtney

27:25

said on the one hand it was terrible because i

27:27

can get to see you but on the other hand i got to be

27:29

the center your world and it's iran be totally

27:31

free to do whatever i want to would she be mad like

27:33

a you know when i like everly seventy

27:35

messages and your guy see red just rollbacks

27:38

case would see if we get mad like it's

27:40

thursday where's my ladder yep

27:43

there's a that were

27:45

on the other hand the guys in prison are the ones right

27:47

in the thirteen letters and she's the one right back a

27:49

because i guess it's as a busy life and under two minutes

27:52

it's it's a flip the script anything suspicious

27:54

she left she left tv news about

27:56

a year after she did the interview and we had stayed in touch

27:58

or that same as ours searching children

28:01

going to visitation they were just don't all this horrible sorry

28:03

that's how you found each other it was an interview

28:06

and then when she left t v we can i became

28:08

friends and then at the beginning of twenty

28:10

twenty we just like you tell us that we just

28:12

we have started talking we started been

28:14

together and then you know eight months later when

28:16

i got out of prison all of a sudden she's there

28:19

in a cornfield waiting for minutes late going

28:21

on here and then i yeah about

28:23

a month and a half ago we got engaged so we like we have

28:25

gone down the brass was that's another

28:28

thing too i do want to go over the prison seriously

28:30

gonna can do a sample what's and that's

28:32

awesome know what is what is that like so

28:34

what is the relationship like like that's

28:37

it like did you ever get really pissed off in the

28:39

last year at your girlfriend is

28:41

a lover but you're upset than the ever think like

28:43

maybe this isn't gonna work out what you

28:46

want i'm from awfully a real smoke and as

28:48

solve said that you don't have a

28:50

like rain it's a it's almost almost

28:52

like a guy

28:54

gets caught cheating but the relations of not

28:56

work it out anyways like will now i have to stick

28:58

with you to them sir you know you're the one

29:00

meet years a better person

29:02

now just to you that i say degree

29:04

while you were in there so you could see the

29:06

jacqueline it's happening a right i can't

29:09

say , about the initial email but like i see it

29:11

even more clearly mouse ssssss

29:14

so how is a relationship going for it is it always

29:17

say some states are ya makes me think

29:19

about people that broke up during the pandemic you might

29:21

have heard of it though the footnotes but there

29:23

was one this one assists

29:26

ah that when ah that

29:28

break up dirt during the liked the part where

29:30

you couldn't even leave your house and most you really

29:32

hate us personally german in and parcels

29:35

and then feels like something like that may be right

29:38

that you didn't do anything offensive the her

29:40

the to see the falcon this is yeah

29:43

you got to live with me as soon as you gotta

29:45

that's so funny when i cheat

29:47

so that was one of the things as we we didn't want

29:49

to create a situation where anybody was depends upon anybody

29:51

else we didn't have any gathered so we bought a house about

29:54

six months ago so it like i moved out i

29:56

got a little tiny house yet or place where she was at

29:58

me like we've worked independently but

30:00

a lot of harm the other blake had our own space in our

30:02

lives matter on friends and then slowly

30:04

look at how to build that's what will we had

30:06

was the ability to communicate the most people only

30:08

reason out a year

30:10

no way though

30:12

not a fair enough for

30:14

i think know because we learnt like we learned we

30:16

did what we called like a beta don't like we knew everything

30:18

about each other from those eight months of like two

30:21

hours a day on the phone and just talking

30:23

with you you can't go bad sex or walk

30:25

in the woods or do anything else all you can do is talk

30:27

and so we learned like where each other's boundaries

30:29

are were insecurities are like how to communicate

30:31

we set rules for how we fight nights we had

30:34

a really intentional basis where relationships

30:36

we still do that when we last night we spent a long

30:38

time talking about cigarettes what was your latest crazy

30:40

feeling and i was like well or the

30:42

other day we need an answer for nurses the car essence

30:44

of beauty bonus and i call my own she

30:47

didn't answer and i told ars a guard against a

30:49

my latest crazy thing was like i was convinced you're having

30:51

a fair be he didn't answer the phone for like two hours i

30:53

know was going on and she just starts laughing she

30:55

goes you know what that's funny because i'm convinced like you found

30:57

a girlfriend and tic toc and like that's why i've been feeling

30:59

like and so we do that we just talked about it because

31:01

he left us to grow that's where you

31:03

get sick unless we get sick mr relationship is

31:05

you just talk about it and laugh about it like that's

31:08

how you go

31:09

yeah sometimes anytime soon

31:11

that and signed out that one person

31:14

hadn't seen this

31:18

study mouse and thirty seven times

31:20

they i'd see the him they just know how the last of

31:22

that of good skill sets

31:24

of to censor yourself sick when

31:26

yourself got t bone the other day where you like

31:28

where's my fucking gun

31:31

cotton first but now you're the sweetest

31:33

girl who felt terrible

31:35

and was worried she had the worst luck so

31:37

her best friend had come up to visit for her birthday and

31:40

that night of their birthday, her catalytic converter

31:42

got stolen so they they had go to the shop to get her a catalytic

31:45

converter and while she was out of there she t-bone

31:47

me and i was was just like to stay away from vehicles,

31:49

this is just not working them on if

31:55

you have bad

31:57

quote luck

31:59

the what is what's the

32:01

pin pandemic to you

32:03

yeah i did you read the whole cycle

32:05

about it and in prison or is it

32:07

a thing or we we live the cycle that

32:09

was the problem we you know the first outbreak

32:12

we hadn't prison we have four guys that are

32:14

like feeling captive and we don't know if we're getting

32:16

told the truth in the officers are freaking out does not

32:18

shown up for work and we're hearing about it

32:20

was terrible and we went from like when

32:22

the pandemics or rep for the pandemic i was living

32:24

in a single cell in the on abroad and good job

32:27

i was in the pod with the dogs with the doctrine

32:29

program i volunteered i taught spanish are and

32:31

programs with had a really full length

32:33

like i was busy from sunup to sundown was something meaningful

32:36

they never came in and it just lock the doors like

32:38

i was in myself from two months then

32:41

slowly like a couple of us the out and get a shower

32:43

and a couple us would be out to do it was horrible it was

32:45

bleak women have no shower also

32:47

we we would get a shower every three days in

32:50

his but like in like you have to go out

32:52

like you either sell guns aren't good right

32:54

back know like hang out or do anything else

32:57

the you do still carry over

33:01

the patterns the word does

33:03

do take your toothbrush the the bedroom hi

33:06

i have a problem with like sharing is caring

33:09

shower and like the other gear ah

33:11

of i don't forget to turn off sinks because for

33:13

twenty years i've sinned or to think our

33:15

lives in the life of me turns out myself

33:17

as sweet some i want to do our shower shoes

33:20

for the longest i've ever was barefoot

33:22

and as our i , are deathly some

33:24

things are like just a weird stuff i select like

33:26

like rubber bands and paper glimpse users roy's

33:28

like a sporting get those in prison like think always

33:30

easy to make within still like seen in my first

33:32

impulse is why grabbing stick in my pocket i realized

33:35

what i go to sleep sleep the big deal

33:37

by it's it's deep seated would see see

33:39

like your second and jolly rancher in

33:41

a certain way as to him

33:43

say you're making a nice to

33:46

meet with so found on it honey you're scaring

33:48

me did

33:52

the end to end the like a d at the of

33:54

like a sex and were all your stuff is just so the

33:57

with the a cover your food when either

33:59

in front of

33:59

well

34:00

the first guy out i was putting yeah i get

34:02

a bunch of like hygiene stuff from cbs or from

34:04

wherever it's and like as i looked at as it was

34:06

sitting there with everything was ordered a neat and when

34:09

all the same items and same size and

34:11

somebody made a comment on take that they're like i bet if i opened

34:13

your bathroom you don't mind the so when i went in there

34:15

as i gonna do something about this when his is not

34:17

okay is it like this is the most of

34:19

my body to so i want to go put my body of about a month

34:21

ago and his mother to spend the weekend with

34:23

him to see i was doing is not read motorcycles and

34:26

and chicago new thousand and is that all the

34:28

so i bought a bunch of stuff i'd have all

34:30

the nations and and innocence definitely take that

34:32

the local news or edwards said rodham old

34:34

and he's got all the same who's wind up and he's got

34:36

all a sex line of as i did i feel i have got a mess a

34:38

modeling i gotta i gotta live ninety buddy you

34:41

ever you're by yourself nobody's round

34:43

ever been a shower just select spy bars

34:45

of soap on the floor near like a lie

34:50

with that is the most commonly as question on

34:52

on social media for some reason if he if yourself

34:54

on the floor and fun you ,

34:56

that as in the south mississippi

35:00

if he comes down the out the soap on

35:02

hogan dance the the

35:05

any i was the scariest thing that happens

35:07

in close to twenty years

35:10

a lot of things a scary for

35:12

me land that had some conflicts but i

35:14

think for me it was more there was a moment i remember

35:16

as a buckingham and the bloods were jumping this guy had

35:18

violated and they dislike stomped on

35:20

his face for about five minutes on the records like just

35:23

like taking breaks gone back and forth and

35:25

or job and like other prisoners was to just

35:28

like you know not draw attention to it and let

35:30

it happen and that was such a dramatic

35:32

moment because i was horrified by what was going on

35:34

but i was also horrified by like my response

35:36

which is like i want to stab at rec i don't want disperse

35:39

and that was when i was like i can't let display shaming

35:41

like i can't become the first and displacements me

35:43

to be because it's gonna break me like i'm not going

35:45

to be a person can ever go back to society arm

35:47

and that was that was the beginning my like really conscious

35:50

intentional focus intentional being who being wanted to be resident

35:52

who the place one place newbie

35:54

there is a movie a hell of it's called bad

35:56

boy some it's called some stupid it's

35:58

it's see it

35:59

then it's gerard butler i think

36:02

or that words the than the night

36:05

from game of thrones but anyway or

36:07

this guy gets arrest see the tough guys bad

36:09

ass gets arrested as

36:11

some gang says or idea that you

36:13

know hide these drugs of your asshole in asshole balloon

36:15

up your ass off and off

36:18

and he just got to prison

36:20

that means like murders gonna

36:22

com it's only going to escalate i

36:24

think right there i'd be like we gotta kill

36:26

me i thought the end of the movie would be

36:28

balloons up my ass the

36:30

ever i ever gets of

36:33

and propositions like that like a

36:36

they do help out around here virginia

36:38

isn't like a wrestler dang run state

36:40

which i'm really grateful for see you have gangs

36:42

new have issues but it's all like everybody's independent

36:45

less a choose not to be and there's no pressure to be in that

36:47

and i mean people had extorted no issues and

36:49

people to jump to julia roberts but there

36:51

is no like institution wider like system

36:53

wide and oppressor like peer pressure

36:56

you have you had a guy in jail he

36:58

had a fake iso people would have some fold

37:01

sit in his sake i saw

37:03

comment on oh man john that would

37:05

be his name oh man on the

37:08

one day oh man john is holding

37:10

l a z for somebody

37:12

i'm not it dot he can't put them in your

37:14

suspicious

37:16

the i did not go for a specific

37:19

this city has not say i

37:21

assume the new much i mean

37:23

he was he was gone like we were worried about him for

37:25

like two or three days but he made it

37:27

like he he managed to come back out of that whole somehow

37:30

what's the deal with set know by the way

37:32

or people just as although the

37:34

yeah i mean for those and everything i get my

37:36

friend who is this your last weekend or that the weekend

37:38

before she runs a nonprofit for

37:40

of days i overdose efforts because

37:43

i've said all showing up and we'd have showing

37:45

up and ever caterpillar showing up in like ten

37:47

pretty much anything on answers when

37:49

they were like okay finals and all the hair when but ever be

37:51

know that like if you're gonna use our when you know it's

37:53

can have phenolic you're taking that risk which

37:55

i think is like understandable but when it

37:57

showing up and weed or when is showing up another recreational

38:00

like that's a problem because this person isn't agreeing

38:02

to this like you're actually tricking them when you're gave me the weed

38:04

and it's it's really horrible so what she does she gives

38:07

up a federal test scripts that you can apply and you get

38:09

free of charge and she also has an arc and so

38:11

that if you happen to smoke some weed covered in fighting all

38:13

and you happen to overdose the nokia and can bringing about

38:15

if the re remade the matrix and the guy

38:17

goes to enter the blue pill in one

38:19

second i gotta test it pulls out a string

38:21

exactly because i'm not going away and then he was just

38:23

getting he thinks of both let's give the fucking that

38:27

real built doesn't have a just a just

38:29

to make a point ah what is

38:31

what is that know like it's is it's is just like

38:33

rat poison and so that we think your

38:35

weed is better but we're just to eat

38:37

when we say it's essentially like a synthetic

38:40

opioid it's like a synthetic heroin that is significantly

38:42

stronger than regular heroin which means that

38:44

people are overdosing even elo quantities i'm i'm

38:47

aware of we know in it and the hospitals

38:49

usable where they where they sneak it in and some

38:51

of my drugs to sell it to

38:53

make you want to get fucked up his a little

38:55

set know and then you'll keep buying more what what

38:57

is it wearing tell me once in a nice and

38:59

it it creates an addictive qualities so if you

39:01

like that used to be a thing if he would cut cope with heroin

39:04

but the the price point in really make sense for

39:06

ten also tp in such a coke different now

39:08

than people wouldn't be addicted natalie that the cocaine psychologically

39:11

but offered no biologically have to be addicted to

39:13

that now and then it is going to keep the dosage

39:15

right they're going to keep coming back moves you're the only

39:17

one who has a big get some that higher that makes him feel that

39:19

way it's about like creating loyalty

39:22

among your customers unfortunately yeah it's

39:24

yeah but people still do drugs in jail

39:26

right at all and that mazda

39:30

the question how he just do it i

39:32

know when you pay off there's very little money in

39:34

your so understaffed and you have a bunch of

39:36

people that have a substance use disorder and a bunch

39:38

people that sell drugs for a living in you put them on the same

39:41

place pretty much a recipe to make sure

39:43

drugs get inside

39:44

the eating of words there was an

39:47

though into thing that i kinda silly

39:49

things there was a

39:51

guide an officer in in the prison

39:54

system who was transferring

39:56

some drugs then rate but she started doing

39:58

some of them and old

39:59

the prisoner money

40:02

and he said that c word seen

40:04

her body for making up for this guy

40:06

the she she said that he can prices

40:09

there are amongst the prisoners

40:11

cause you pay them back

40:13

they were it was at that point he was basically so she

40:15

had a steady supply drugs can seem to recognize

40:17

like that was or cash our that was her next encounter

40:20

is she traded him b

40:23

m

40:23

in her paint basically to the prisoners

40:25

for more drugs coming in into

40:28

she can't get it on the outside see

40:30

the to can be seated and the money i mean she makes like

40:32

six hundred bucks an hour at the most whereas

40:34

you know the drugs he was on were very expensive his

40:38

by the way you watch on t v what

40:40

do you watch law and order easy

40:43

it's it's interesting ah

40:46

there's a lot of talking during it i'd have to assume

40:48

odd do people find the believe aboard

40:51

the they did did they they go as early as

40:53

early year that sort of that sort it'll

40:55

is is that is all out a riot pretty

40:58

well done and generally pretty realistic is it showed

41:00

like it showed dumb things that people did it showed terrible

41:03

things that people data showed people getting framed it showed

41:05

in a fast being honest in class being dishonest

41:07

prosecutors like being fair and being a like it

41:09

was it was fairly realistic setting

41:11

people especially in prison connected with that because

41:13

it's a compelling story that's surely like dramatize

41:16

but it had a taste of tennis through through a

41:18

because you see like in the end justice said noise get

41:20

done that the good guy doesn't always wins on has

41:22

a bad guy gets away with that i think that

41:24

there's a kind of reality by of it was really appealing

41:26

special in the face a somebody prison movies or crime movies

41:29

that just glorify somebody are just completely unrealistic

41:31

when i pass a cop i sometimes

41:33

wonder like i'm doing something duel

41:36

out do you feel that way

41:38

so the first like official police

41:40

guns i had the other day was when i got see bound and i had

41:43

a when given my information and my first

41:45

thought is like oh my god like is are they gonna come

41:47

back and be like this is a violent felon on probation

41:49

like ours is going to draw is gone me but

41:51

i've always wondered like what's going to be and he was the nicest

41:53

guy in the world news like asia mr carson having

41:55

my stuff back he said are at and i'm to make sure you get the

41:57

reports and it was great and so

42:00

cause of that interaction i talk about that on social media

42:02

the had about thirty police officers about nino

42:04

ten people who were dispatched reach out be like okay we're

42:07

obligated to tell them but if it's traffic excellent

42:09

we're only going to tell them you're under supervision and probably

42:11

about a third to afford a that people do they interact with

42:13

are under supervision to they're not gonna care sit

42:15

through this whole thing i've gotten a glimpse into like what

42:18

the other side or the other experiences has been really

42:20

gratifying to the recognized you know he's

42:22

just as uncomfortable as i am coming up on a lot of situations

42:24

as like or it let me let me put myself in the other person

42:26

shoes but yeah nonetheless every

42:28

time i i i right by a cop

42:30

like a checklist well amateur i wonder like

42:33

i had some bad habits in the password the biggest

42:35

thing is like now that i'm living a really clean and

42:37

street life like i don't have to worry about

42:39

and that's a really good feeling it's like okay to pull

42:41

me over like i'm doing six over the speed limit

42:43

reading of you may take it like i can deal with that

42:45

like i'm not going to prison i'm not going to yell

42:48

at that pixie walk around the league mister rogers

42:50

scientists amass a pretty

42:53

much as other guy said when

42:55

i did you just to which is the greatest opportunity because

42:58

ago just got a person can like wrestle

43:00

are taught to the deaths and then go get coffee

43:02

afterwards and like that's the best thing in the world

43:05

is aware that there's

43:06

there's the weights in jail

43:08

or said the we need

43:11

i think that if you give people the opportunity

43:13

of exercise and expand their and is you have a much

43:15

better outcome them when you lock them in the

43:18

south is violence and overdoses and druggies

43:20

have gone through the roof there in the pandemics like they're still

43:22

on pandemic protocol a half the prisons a

43:24

guy from were my buddy gonna last month assist

43:27

him outside twice in two weeks before that like

43:29

you just walk people in the cellar like people inside

43:31

it's not gonna go well i hear them

43:34

when whether my step kids with the haven't

43:36

they were having like an attitude it

43:39

it the able a lot

43:41

let's assess hadn't the in then later

43:43

my girlfriend or takes or to the gym

43:46

to you know expel energy is

43:48

taking a boxing class and more about poetry

43:50

class that's

43:53

why we make a these people stronger that

43:55

solemn says gotta be some there we can

43:57

work on more targeted by

43:59

yeah

43:59

obama you like so in distress

44:02

talent you have a single tape which is like temperature

44:04

intense exercise progressive relaxation breathing

44:07

and these are the best ways we found to reduce

44:09

stress so when somebody feeling stressed i'm in

44:11

control especially fab like a battered of aggression

44:13

will giving them at all they need to get rid of that

44:15

stress which is gonna get rid of that aggression is actually

44:18

one of those awful things we can do and phrases

44:20

x we had a fight club we had our like a martial

44:22

arts training program that was really intense

44:24

like you had to show up your to work your ass off your leader

44:26

deng politics of the door like you had to stay

44:29

out of trouble if you're get in trouble you can participate in

44:31

this for rented a bunch of guys and this is completely

44:33

illegal and unofficial my very benevolent things i'm most proud

44:36

of not to the bunch of guys would stab

44:38

and charges against er zu at fighting charges

44:40

and everybody in that program stayed out of trouble for

44:42

the year and half the we're running like everybody gather

44:44

knows when what we saw was as if you give people

44:47

a sense of community because of the and every time we'd have a circle

44:49

every would sit down and talk about it with there were going

44:51

through like it was a bombings for and tested

44:53

in hi maisie so they were worried about do it

44:56

after you pints he says he sat around and talks

44:58

about

44:58

yeah i'm in in a mosh pit that

45:00

somebody took the wrong with stressful latimer the

45:02

don't need a fight club and for as since

45:04

mississippi okay than never went wrong

45:07

and never went sideways

45:09

we had a me we were really strict about it because i guess what

45:11

and it wasn't just the franklin who's a training thing you would

45:13

have to train consistently for that three months or that

45:15

six months to be able to have a match so you're

45:17

thing we recess and you to see if you'd prefer to work out

45:19

because we have this old getting jc was a monster

45:21

likes in best i've ever seen he would take

45:23

guys on last they can do you know barrel walks

45:25

and all these things and if they ever broke it

45:28

was like okay is he gonna get back up and if he's

45:30

not going to get back up like he can join the group and

45:32

of every loss or temper they had trouble where they were

45:34

getting into it that's why i just keep your nose clean with your

45:36

get in fights you're not welcome and what we did

45:38

was we essentially change people's vader by

45:40

setting really strict boundaries around something they wanted

45:42

to do and and giving themselves a sense

45:44

of like us agency and in control

45:47

and power and their own lives doesn't seem like they needed

45:49

to get that power and that control somewhere else

45:52

oh well

45:53

amazing ah see the light in

45:56

and you could yeah yeah by

45:57

i hope so yeah course

45:59

have you been in over twenty sites physical

46:02

fights

46:03

in my life yeah

46:04

what

46:06

okay with their how how often

46:09

do you come out okay in those fights

46:11

as a over pretty quickly

46:13

yeah i mean did we have this

46:15

hollywood idea that whites are gonna last long time

46:17

and strangely of in all of all places

46:19

i thought series like respect rights

46:21

in prison with what was even about like actually trying

46:24

to hurt the other person it was like i just you made me

46:26

look bad so i get away get off on you and like

46:28

as literal and of watching to those fight for like five

46:30

minutes and then like take a break and get some water and director

46:33

fighting i was like this is insane because every

46:35

real fight i've ever been it's been over and like thirty seconds

46:37

or less like win or lose it's

46:39

just it's over there is none of this like gauging

46:41

people wow there's no this like that

46:43

the john wayne stuff

46:45

why are you keeping up with your workouts

46:47

after being out at a prison for

46:49

years

46:51

are we just did we did a little crossfit

46:53

workout this morning which was good about i've been going

46:55

to jujitsu i was going six days a week

46:57

at first now i'm going for but i had cove in two weeks

46:59

ago and then this week i can only travel

47:01

i'm going to testify and i'm going to be a

47:04

an expert witness in a sentencing hearing for

47:06

a guy who's a facing life

47:08

tomorrow actually which i'm really kind of grateful

47:10

for the opportunity to do because people

47:12

will know about it like the the judges the jury's don't

47:15

know about what goes on in prison they think oh

47:17

well they're going to go there and get the help they need and so they

47:19

asked me to come in and speak about what actually happens

47:21

and like whether this is actually going to get him to help that he needs

47:23

a and i hope to show them that it's

47:25

not and that you know it doesn't mean that he shouldn't go to

47:27

prison it doesn't mean that we should you know make everything better

47:30

but we need to realize what's really going on and have a conversation

47:32

of what was his car he

47:34

was murder but his situation

47:37

was almost the same as mine where mine where being

47:39

chased and he was scared and he shot

47:41

the two people are facing them but or is they lived

47:43

in my case they died and his men could fundamentally

47:45

we did the same thing like i had no control

47:48

over whether this people were shot lead did i like that

47:50

was completely out of my control so to say

47:52

that he's more culpable in should spend the rest of his life

47:54

in prison and can't contribute and is completely

47:56

worthless an irredeemable is to say that about

47:58

me and i don't believe that about myself

47:59

the i don't believe that about him feel the same lawyer

48:02

that you had the guy between those

48:04

now focuses on the kids i

48:06

picked sir i know me

48:09

the

48:11

like i just read a story like in and dubai

48:13

yeah know some of them we got murdered for a kiss

48:15

on the girlfriend would see

48:17

what else would i just read to that's

48:20

the by residents can be fined up to

48:22

what's equivalent to what's hundred thirty five thousand

48:24

dollars if they raise

48:26

zip line that insults

48:28

another person that's not my would know

48:30

ahead of time so anyway my point is dee

48:33

dee say to somebody hey what

48:35

is the law like yeah i got my pardon

48:37

is that really the end of it's silly even speak

48:39

about prison reform

48:41

then i'd start doing you tubes and

48:43

take talks and i'd be that did the

48:45

i'd be like what do you work and aunts oh i

48:47

think the way you help me for two decades was

48:49

wrong i have a these are you have idea

48:52

oh yeah have ideas whereas my idea

48:55

back in jail for the the that concerned

48:57

you at all and

49:00

so the first time i'm my parole officer

49:02

my probation officer mention my take

49:04

ox i was like i would he thinks she said i love

49:06

what you do and we need to talk about this there's

49:08

nothing for guys get now like i'm really glad you doing

49:10

this and that made me feel better okay

49:13

good that the i want

49:15

mentioned this in front of him the

49:17

she makes fun of me for this i was in there

49:19

when i was in the army

49:21

somebody heard a story that you can smoke

49:23

the inside a banana peels and get high

49:25

and scrape out the insides and

49:28

than you smoke of now i was i was

49:30

rank i didn't i didn't do the heck so skinny

49:33

their venus but she still make fun me that

49:35

i did smoke at our people smoking

49:37

banana peel

49:38

the and presence as the cross

49:41

there's anything for that to dry case

49:45

we did we just that we let it sit i think

49:47

they let it sit but they are indeed getting

49:49

high on banana peel how does that work and

49:51

on the way the north from fortunately

49:53

this their lot of drugs around the most people

49:55

just do the drugs but on the rare occasion

49:57

and there's a drought every scene

50:00

for some been so though he nutmeg or they'll smoke

50:02

the inside a banana peels and i've never done

50:04

it on thankfully there are a number things i never did

50:06

that seemed like a really bad idea i was actually

50:08

smart enough to that point to listen to them but you

50:10

know side mirrors initiative and like take the edge

50:12

off i was released that aeronautics

50:14

who would issue water they would issue cleared

50:16

him she whatever they can just get the experience of shooting

50:18

the that gave him the kind of simulation of the memory of shouldn't

50:21

have sat down and they is

50:23

that dangerous and any can be good that as as as

50:25

modern your system i mean

50:27

it's no different than haven't water and celaire one

50:31

that is an ivy it's a medical procedure

50:34

the usual what is what is not me

50:36

do you could it eat it gives the cook

50:38

it is is as eat it i sincerely

50:40

it so it's like i it's not even a hallucinogenic

50:42

makes you are

50:44

the news is almost like a psychotic episodes

50:47

as i guess technically it's like a loser jin put it

50:49

last for fucking ever that is one that i did that

50:51

i sincerely regret you just feel like

50:53

you're dissociated and things are really trippy

50:55

but it doesn't go away and your profoundly uncomfortable

50:58

for like six hours and it is horrible

51:00

and the fact that people did it once and then did it again

51:02

let's me know that we're truly desperate to it's escape

51:05

whatever experience we're having is no like

51:07

a happy healthy person would do that once and

51:10

do anything other than i'm never doing that again

51:13

that know what's that what is the

51:15

what's the biggest thing that does not make

51:17

it's a simple the yep time ah

51:19

what's the what's more the bigger things

51:22

you're working with a prison reform i

51:25

just started a nonprofit we get some funding so

51:27

the second chance or foundations you start providing

51:29

reentry services here in charlottesville and

51:31

we're looking with inexorably years the scale statewide

51:34

and then we have a partner organization we love skill nationally

51:36

with i and i'm really excited about

51:38

being able to provide the services that just aren't

51:40

there that the cracks it or in the system where where where

51:42

he has to go pay get to leave

51:44

where were you supposed to don't eat enough family and

51:46

would matter what why wouldn't gonna

51:49

burn they literally wouldn't let me out the door but

51:51

yeah i've got a buddy gets out next month

51:53

who has nowhere to go answer is gonna go to homeless

51:55

shelter or if he can find one they

51:57

told him there no halfway house beds for odd

51:59

rest of the year until maybe january or february

52:02

so the put him up at a hotel for a

52:04

week or two weeks for like anyone charlottesville it's

52:06

a three to six month waiting list for the homeless shelter though

52:09

he'll get out who live a week or two in a hotel room

52:11

and then he's going to on the street

52:14

lack of and and people try to escape

52:17

as loved it

52:18

they get inside to be people while

52:20

you were in prison try to

52:22

escape the prison you were in enjoy not

52:24

really succeeded

52:26

there's no i do baby got out

52:28

that is the timing be successful was before

52:30

i got there he can time he tried to

52:32

he got he was out for about five or one second

52:34

or what we're talking about zubaydah yeah

52:37

okay good guy the iaaf

52:39

and by the way it's it's spelled j you be able

52:41

i've seen i've this have some so

52:44

he got out was successfully was on the run for about

52:46

five years and actually went back to break one of his buddies

52:48

out got caught this was fifteen

52:50

years later try to break out again but this point is like

52:53

sixty years old is not young and healthy environment

52:55

he was happening

52:58

he does happen

53:00

are you break out of prison they had a

53:02

these and since it is away

53:04

there are a the laundry right

53:06

the get will the guy who got a villain so

53:08

i wasn't there that was cross the street the one who successful

53:11

he just managed to be outside the building and night and you

53:13

have three senses and you have razor wire and

53:15

they generally seen the razor wire mean asked his it'll

53:17

tear you up we got our but he end up losing

53:19

i think five or six fingers because even

53:22

wearing gloves even doing whatever the reason

53:24

were cut his finger so badly that entertainment

53:26

aspinall seem as to break out of prison

53:28

get more time on a sentence just to lose

53:30

six fingers and get five more years like that's

53:33

that's the equation know

53:37

this even want

53:38

this isn't like ocean's eleven were like the helicopter

53:40

comes in represents a clean like pacific as you get

53:42

out it's really ugly we're does get out of mecklenburg

53:45

out of death row back in the to the eighties

53:47

or nineties they like made a fake gun immense to

53:49

break out work out for what a while but like that

53:51

was the and they put all the sally ports in place

53:53

the design assistant or it's it's not an easy thing

53:55

to do

53:56

when he when he escaped prison

53:58

and hand mess

54:00

you into his know how site that's where they caught

54:02

him peter new i mean even

54:04

i watched enough movies and i don't want to speak

54:07

ill of people who can kill me but

54:10

that seems like an obvious

54:12

one not to do or had liquid

54:14

else do you go what are you gonna do

54:16

what mean i think that shows that we have this idea of criminal

54:18

masterminds are people who make rational decisions

54:20

toward some kind of criminal action in reality we

54:22

have a bunch of like mental and emotional children

54:24

in adult bodies to been around violence

54:27

and drama their whole lives and tend to act out of that experience

54:29

a fair enough yes what's

54:33

the what's in his there are

54:35

certain what's the next big thing that

54:37

you gotta go with your organization is is

54:40

the the party and now they're throw is it

54:43

when i was so when i didn't

54:45

realize i thought oh let me start a nonprofit this

54:47

will be great and leagues or fallen in place like

54:49

we got five or one c three satisfied with that everything

54:51

in place but i'm still dealing with like liability

54:53

in often director insurance and then as a contractor

54:56

other than employee i have to get my own liability insurance

54:58

that antarctic so what we're doing

55:00

we're hoping it'll be about the next month to put the programming

55:02

together to make sure we're ready once i can hire the guy was actually

55:05

run the program as in holland to we have been shown

55:07

to just residence or and then we can start

55:09

as can be a thirteen week run of reentry programs

55:11

about five or six people is kind of a pilot program

55:14

never to do or a month to kind of reestablish

55:16

do our interaction or entry and exit surveys

55:18

the figure i'd make sure this works them bosses

55:20

look at like a a grant for the programming based

55:22

on the evans we have from that pilots arm

55:25

and enjoying a full operation and again hopefully

55:27

be able to provide the services people to need him the most

55:29

because doesn't make sense to let people out of prison

55:31

who are unprepared for the world and then wonder why they go

55:33

back

55:34

you people mistake here kind

55:36

demeanor and you know very

55:38

gentle it conversation

55:42

for me be week and and

55:45

you have these thoughtlessly thousand

55:47

the for nineteen years

55:49

still insane

55:50

do

55:53

you have any i have plenty of people

55:55

talk a lot of crap on social media i've never as many soccer

55:57

up in person and if they did i would just walk away

55:59

even that hurt my ago because mean i

56:02

learned that inside legacy it got to the point where like

56:04

that sometimes you don't really have a choice but the vast

56:06

majority of times i

56:08

realize it's not worth it like weathered something happened

56:10

smear some perhaps the other person or just consequences

56:13

that action not worth it i'm amazon get

56:15

killed they sleep i don't like four days

56:17

into my first real britain let's get my head slam

56:19

on the ground so hard they thought my school was cracked and was like

56:22

this is serious like this is not a game this isn't

56:24

just like some fun thing and that was

56:26

would have thought it was getting any mccain who killed

56:28

a guy with one punch is like you know i don't think i

56:30

want to do this like this doesn't make sense

56:33

the i mean i think it's important to have like i

56:35

had a sense of comfort or on violence just because it's

56:37

inevitable as part of our society but he

56:40

has a people who take it really layer the people who think it's

56:42

fine or think it's all about respect like i

56:44

think that they're gonna need to live by

56:46

the sword die by sword thing

56:48

it's amazing twenty years

56:50

ago u s

56:50

would prevent we said our podcast

56:53

seventeen years ago and people were like

56:55

the internet your that noticing

56:58

podcasting that that there was none

57:00

of this

57:01

the we weren't we didn't have a company

57:02

during our hand we still had the know old

57:05

school phones they weren't necessarily on the internet

57:07

maybe you have like that snake game or something the

57:09

of how much you

57:11

have access to that on the inside or

57:14

how myself have sunk was it that

57:17

cars don't have keys in the mind

57:19

me i'm still getting says and i didn't

57:20

the here

57:21

how did how did that go

57:24

you drive by the tesla personally sit in arena blocking

57:26

it like that a senator said i'm

57:29

so i think the thing that helped the most with

57:31

the kind of transition was they started selling tablets

57:34

which are just the commission phones are like old samsung

57:36

galaxy phones with all the cell and the wifi

57:38

stuff taken off of it and then that set

57:40

up to you know do your email or

57:42

do your music but it's only through the j

57:44

platform it's not give any internet access you can't go

57:47

anywhere else but you use like an android platforms

57:49

you get an idea of okay this is what apps are and this

57:51

is like how you type on the thing and and

57:53

i was really grateful for that because i got to get out and i was like oh

57:55

this is like my tablet like i can do this and

57:58

but i think people who got out before that some

58:00

people like you got this kind of old classic guys are still

58:02

guys get a cassette player and at buckingham like he's

58:04

devout is not given up that cassette player is not gonna

58:06

have a tablets i'm heading

58:09

for those people it's just an incredible shot and i mean i

58:11

didn't know i didn't know what to talk was or would i mean i

58:13

knew i knew what these things were in theory like

58:15

i'm when the pandemic started in zoom stock boom

58:17

that was ago it's a great idea ever it is working on zoom

58:19

we should like five consume stock that makes sense

58:21

but the idea of actually experiencing it

58:23

worth the things i'm so like the other day i ordered

58:26

a pizza for the first time like with i've been able to

58:28

order pizza and pizza don't even know you could do it do it

58:30

shocking and yeah i mean i still

58:32

on a daily basis and surprised by things even though

58:34

i generally think i know what's going on i

58:36

think awesomely i don't and my order came round

58:38

but have one it's it's amazing

58:40

even when call was an unfunny wouldn't

58:43

wouldn't do people love that

58:45

do sit on you online where does a mad at

58:48

said that somehow it now you're

58:50

getting praise but you'd be pulls a gun on

58:52

a person

58:53

yeah i think sometimes that which i think is a legitimate great

58:55

as i don't want a big time and a mess

58:58

it up and i'm being told i'm i'm fairly

59:00

certain i think allen's new boyfriend

59:02

to be in jail for jail few decades as goes suddenly

59:04

girl pieces sits ah but i

59:06

think twenty years as years knopf

59:08

the that's what they're sitting on and you're doing

59:11

good things so what the fuck are they doing every

59:13

back what the fuck are you doing

59:15

the great

59:17

iraq in a lot of people do with oprah right

59:19

back what the fuck are you doing name is

59:21

over is my spirit animal to repay thank

59:24

you for the opportunity says would have requested

59:26

that i had a verb your garbage

59:28

when i first

59:30

i try to engage with everybody like you know

59:32

where had like ten thousand followers i was like i

59:34

want to engage with everybody so i had conversations and

59:36

some i got to see that says like

59:38

i had to see people be like oh i'm just really angry

59:40

nobody listened to me in the skies will and listen to me

59:42

like say like are not surrender

59:44

anymore and i actually saw that happened reddit

59:46

has only been once has to be seen and heard but

59:49

some people continue to go into the really stupid

59:51

ones we going up and ugly like okay graham

59:53

ugly ones where there's like an

59:55

insecurity that like they play on something

59:58

like amateur oh my god this one guy he drew i

1:00:00

mean not because every video he would tax

1:00:02

something particularly like you're such a narcissist

1:00:04

like you got something for courtney's birthday that you

1:00:06

wanted that was like oh my god did i like kind of

1:00:08

my like it completely played on

1:00:10

every insecurity and it drove me crazy and final he was the first

1:00:12

person i ever blocked because i was like i can't do

1:00:14

this like every day i'm like neurotic and i'm

1:00:16

in my head like he's found some new thing to like play with

1:00:18

and ball and i

1:00:20

bought it from a guy named josie named josie

1:00:23

see the big deal

1:00:25

well what did

1:00:26

get a very birthday bowling by going to

1:00:28

as long as both motorcycle want to get

1:00:30

our motorcycle license is like the training class you

1:00:32

should say to her sister she and her sister were supposed to do it

1:00:34

seven years ago her sister did it and she did

1:00:37

and she said oh god i really want to do that and i wanted a motorcycle

1:00:39

sounds like hey let's do this together it's an experience

1:00:41

and she has assured me that like know she

1:00:43

really liked it and and then oh my god he did it

1:00:45

against her for christmas she told i i kept

1:00:47

trying to figure out what you wanted and i don't have a lot of money and

1:00:50

but she did she does crossfit and so she

1:00:52

said oh i really wanted to jump rope and i was like okay i

1:00:54

can get a good jumper up so i got her a good jump rope oh

1:00:57

my god that it was like oh you only bought her a jumper up because

1:00:59

you wanted to be in shape because you just want a pretty girlfriend

1:01:02

oh grow

1:01:04

up in a salad where

1:01:08

you are you as well

1:01:10

the you able to stand

1:01:11

in by yourself says are you comfortable

1:01:13

with it does did meditating help and near

1:01:16

find either way with people without or

1:01:19

in an ally

1:01:21

i wish so i went to dormitory

1:01:23

months and months for i got out and so i didn't get a single

1:01:26

moment away from people fragile time and

1:01:28

getting out i had i was immediately like

1:01:30

you know my mom picked me up and and courting taking a from there

1:01:32

and i met my mom against that was around people

1:01:35

mm for the first it was like a day outer cities

1:01:37

out either going to cbs by myself

1:01:39

and i was like having a panic attack like trying to fix

1:01:41

stuff out looking over and like when somebody to help

1:01:43

and when court denied living in separate places

1:01:46

i would go home alone sometimes were together like six

1:01:48

nights a week with those that one night a week and i was alone

1:01:51

label just lay there exists or accidently

1:01:53

kicked off lives with seven regarded as an interactive

1:01:55

people like this feels more comfortable and so

1:01:57

are these for all those years i want to do was be left alone

1:02:00

the now it's it can be harder i

1:02:02

think i've gone to a balance but like i work from home

1:02:04

and so on here with the dog which is great

1:02:07

i'm is an optional you know chocolate lab but

1:02:09

it can be it can be an adjustment it takes

1:02:11

some time i do fine as long as i

1:02:13

meditate as long as i say ground in the things that are important

1:02:16

i can be adjustable but now i'm is sometimes

1:02:18

at all does all fears and those old can like you know

1:02:20

demons come off and yet that's tough to below what

1:02:23

is going you do for a little the

1:02:25

report our own i did

1:02:27

for she left tv she was for

1:02:29

a period of managing editor of this evil the local

1:02:32

newspaper and now she has a drive time radio

1:02:34

show and will go on radio stations to

1:02:36

get nervous when see interviews inmates

1:02:40

madison i don't know what so a hurdle

1:02:43

here's a weird parts to this is where we both like

1:02:45

had this doubt early on when realizes when

1:02:47

i was at buckingham as a bucking with a guy named been soaring

1:02:50

who's as i know and i actually said it's called buckingham

1:02:53

yeah i hope it's a bugging him

1:02:56

of

1:02:56

there is no they say it they go

1:02:58

a welcome to the palace everybody

1:03:01

assisted was a for that your

1:03:03

mind the we were there

1:03:05

for our our yen's was there

1:03:07

and he has his international case where he and his girlfriend were

1:03:09

convicted of killing her parents none

1:03:11

they ran the europe and rather run and there was his international

1:03:13

thing about whether they be extradited and possibly faces

1:03:16

i finally him to see that a podcast about

1:03:18

the she's done a podcast about this for like a year and a half

1:03:20

or two years they've got into steep sided

1:03:22

gun dna other stuff that they've like done the most

1:03:24

amazing thing you could imagine and

1:03:26

then it turns out yen's and i were like you

1:03:28

know none of silly friends but regular bodies

1:03:31

early we read books and treated books and talk about

1:03:33

things and so cursing she

1:03:35

was like oh my god like as he just like try to find information

1:03:37

find the ends delinking a ruined my podcast

1:03:40

that was legacy just use me as a source of different

1:03:42

out of again neither

1:03:44

she had that side of it and we are yeah we

1:03:46

kind of bonded over that but otherwise i don't think

1:03:48

she's gone back inside to talk to prisoners yeah i

1:03:50

don't think that would be in and security but i don't know how

1:03:53

we don't see why fuck around when they started enough

1:03:55

is your dad around so

1:03:58

my dad and two thousand six

1:04:00

they were yeah you were you guys close the

1:04:03

worse what he

1:04:05

so i can i guess the only

1:04:07

like emotional relief i had was it he had

1:04:09

moved to costa rica which is always been a stream has

1:04:12

retired satisfaction and was just

1:04:14

like i'm live in a grocery get like ran around the shirt

1:04:16

off like wrestled crocodiles did web alex

1:04:18

video and like so at least i know the last

1:04:20

year and half his life like he was doing when he had always dreamed

1:04:22

it on okay you

1:04:25

guys would write letters and said the dot

1:04:27

yet so , things as

1:04:29

people who are from other countries are a family or another

1:04:32

country's you only get three or four phone calls year

1:04:34

like of the only time you can talk to your your friends or family

1:04:36

just like schedule those in there ahead of time they have to

1:04:38

set up like prepaid accounts and the other countries and

1:04:41

i so it was yeah that was like i get to talk to him

1:04:43

i think three times or four times for died

1:04:46

died via he he came back up once

1:04:48

on you know we would write letters weeks we

1:04:50

thought we were going to play chess by mail because we don't

1:04:53

like yours like up

1:04:55

with said that didn't end up happening zone

1:04:57

the most interesting to hear parents response

1:05:00

to this i because today ah

1:05:02

we were biking we are in central park

1:05:04

in this kid

1:05:05

that sort of slides over

1:05:08

and doesn't pull over

1:05:10

the nurse so is she ends up stuff

1:05:13

being in the middle of of a

1:05:15

lame and of course you know that that

1:05:17

means that season with the in class by a couple people

1:05:20

father jumped right into i

1:05:22

told you to move to the signing a doing

1:05:24

as had to and and it was his he's like i'm

1:05:27

sorry and i'm like

1:05:29

he just almost got crashed into

1:05:31

by an adult she's already

1:05:33

dealing with that she's panicking

1:05:36

this is that's what you do it he he a panic

1:05:38

when when that happens for for a second

1:05:40

on the bike until you've had a regain and

1:05:42

he's still yell and matter as

1:05:44

the riding a bike as is gates and

1:05:47

and he just kind of wonder like it's disco

1:05:49

sided anybody what the fuck would be his

1:05:51

response then

1:05:53

it's it's so giants for

1:05:55

a mistake

1:05:56

the i did take all your your final and

1:05:58

suppose has this year

1:05:59

when

1:06:00

did they have initial

1:06:02

find of

1:06:04

are you and had

1:06:06

a we continue

1:06:08

the

1:06:09

my dad blame himself is my

1:06:11

dad had been a criminal for most of his life

1:06:13

and then cleaned up and become a substance abuse counselor

1:06:15

and like and have been on the right tracks demeanor years

1:06:17

and he was using cocaine in the bathroom in between like counseling

1:06:20

sessions he was not the united

1:06:22

really the best example you know his

1:06:24

feet only if there is fallen asleep on

1:06:27

i mean he was really offensive

1:06:29

yeah we i mean he

1:06:31

he had raised me with the stories of the like

1:06:33

that he loves like for better or worse because they were

1:06:35

like you know they were better than fairytales know

1:06:38

my mom was horrified see that see that same

1:06:40

time she just said always been like reactionary

1:06:42

she'd always been trying to fix things to this was the something

1:06:44

else to sex with this is or chance to see what

1:06:46

you do and she did i mean she allowed me

1:06:48

to go to college she helped immensely people that

1:06:50

like built this can a community of support and following

1:06:52

and a if it hadn't been for them i wouldn't be where

1:06:55

i am i mean that's that's really my central message

1:06:57

is that like i was able succeed divide people

1:06:59

who love me and gave me opportunities in sports and

1:07:01

most people don't and that's not about them or me

1:07:03

that's about the opportunity they have

1:07:05

right

1:07:07

mm my dad with that day they

1:07:10

did bad sex as a kid i saw him in jail

1:07:12

my dad visited me and these

1:07:15

things would last like five minutes or i'm like i'm get

1:07:17

up and leave that's leave that's the first

1:07:19

visiting me and i'm like that he was

1:07:21

i said it was a mistake i get up

1:07:23

and leave meanwhile use the i was scammed by earth

1:07:25

by alone place me was an adult he gets

1:07:27

scanned the to get scanned by these nigerian

1:07:30

you know scam email for thinks he's of acting

1:07:32

love them and i'm like look investments and

1:07:34

back what could you understand perhaps

1:07:37

it is a scam loan anyway good for

1:07:39

you you have a nice family that sweet fuck my

1:07:41

deaths are by the way the

1:07:44

news

1:07:46

i got my driver's permit

1:07:48

the past the know my goodness

1:07:51

to the written test you pass i will how

1:07:53

hard was it for you just a d d

1:07:55

have to get new id and all this that the sit out

1:07:57

of prison

1:07:58

yeah so i went to dmv the the

1:08:00

second day out or third day out and there were like well

1:08:03

since you haven't either license and ten years you don't exist

1:08:05

you gotta start over yeah i know this

1:08:07

is going to be really tough like i'm living really

1:08:09

far outside of town like i don't have any transportation

1:08:12

and you know i said well look what if i can come

1:08:14

up with a speeding ticket is that a speeding ticket or

1:08:16

it's like if i could feel , court does

1:08:19

that prove that i had that i she was like yeah that would actually

1:08:21

were and so i went back and forth in my back

1:08:23

and forth finally lady was like well you know you've got

1:08:25

some time sari saris the back and forth a picture

1:08:27

he's making speeding tickets

1:08:33

when was this year she calls me in our office on

1:08:35

the lunch break which is not like normal dmv behavior

1:08:38

calls records before because the trainers

1:08:40

calls everybody and it's like are it will haven't gotten anything

1:08:43

but i recall two hours later she said look

1:08:45

i called in a saber they pulled out your paper records

1:08:47

from that the records barman and than and richmond like

1:08:49

in a we found nasa will get you in oh god

1:08:52

so that i go back the next day and there is no

1:08:54

power for any aware unanswered the

1:08:57

whole strip of the city it's out of well this

1:08:59

is the only the be i go to give the only ones you know

1:09:01

i exist cigarettes i go back

1:09:03

the next day and day and v computers on

1:09:05

statewide another notices for a place

1:09:08

for the whole point was point for visits for visits

1:09:10

of us off after that i walk rate in had

1:09:12

the little written thing i to go through and i walk out with a license

1:09:15

which was amazing because he added

1:09:17

know was gonna work i'd heard of a horse reason

1:09:19

and people who get their learned from and and this is not

1:09:21

new york where you can live without and a driver's license

1:09:23

you can live with an hour week we live in nowhere like there's

1:09:25

very little public transportation they've moved you know

1:09:28

so many people outside the city that and served as needed

1:09:30

most it's it's an unfortunate situation

1:09:32

hey i ate i

1:09:34

just let his ex my sit expire but

1:09:36

all of it's over the pandemic

1:09:39

the pandemic is a thing too

1:09:41

the thread is so receipts that you're person

1:09:44

i didn't have the right one sub my

1:09:46

of the electricity comes to my landlord's

1:09:48

way we don't give ourselves pay stubs

1:09:51

the and are you start to realize where people

1:09:53

talking about about why you see don't need

1:09:55

id to vote you certain ah

1:09:58

but yeah and yeah the well

1:10:00

enough where i can prove it's

1:10:02

me and i'm like cyrus can find may

1:10:05

have been my for emily freely off the

1:10:07

grid so anyway family guy

1:10:09

the regular id not a license was

1:10:11

able to get my so scaredy cats still

1:10:13

got my v a cards and just

1:10:16

this morning at six am i took

1:10:18

my online permit tests and

1:10:20

pass now is is the first the i

1:10:22

did i have to do it as a normal time earlier

1:10:25

and fail yes but they let you do

1:10:27

it again and six hours you know what

1:10:29

the sincerity ones on there and not get

1:10:31

alive

1:10:32

they to do as i had diamond

1:10:35

saved sign is a while

1:10:37

i don't know whatever

1:10:39

the fuckin sign and will tell me i'll

1:10:41

do that

1:10:42

the hundred sign of say

1:10:44

and what is it has a number on it would

1:10:46

i go that speed limit or vowed not to

1:10:48

sign wrong this is a hazard

1:10:51

side not a speed limit sides that's

1:10:53

rectangle like as soon as you can

1:10:55

you would pitch to the set of like rectangle

1:10:57

what the fuck is a rectangle son great

1:11:00

i didn't do not enter it's a speed

1:11:02

limit sign only got a woman a know what

1:11:04

i see a business with what's an exit

1:11:06

sign color and like and we didn't understand

1:11:08

the question then are like wrong it's

1:11:10

green and the exit

1:11:13

sign yummy

1:11:14

so the

1:11:16

personally kind of the restroom at think

1:11:18

in the it doesn't matter how many i miss but then

1:11:20

the second time at six am i paid

1:11:22

attention and happen to have

1:11:24

a little seed seats

1:11:26

the mean you to your other computer the

1:11:29

only three during senate bid night like own sake

1:11:31

of dmv tests jeans and i

1:11:33

got it is it's bad as that think i was

1:11:35

on weed when i target worked

1:11:37

out

1:11:38

the guys yes

1:11:41

in any now used a taser nancy

1:11:43

the driver now it's a the driver's test

1:11:46

and that is the final step on be in

1:11:48

a complete human being what

1:11:51

drives me crazy though as you can take your drivers

1:11:53

resident automatic and then get a manual car

1:11:56

that you're not you don't know how to drive it's just like the

1:11:58

motorcycle whereas you like this fiberglass

1:12:00

you never get out of second year ago twenty five miles

1:12:02

an hour and they give you a license to ride a motorcycle

1:12:05

it's a terrible idea

1:12:06

i'm honestly surprised if they're letting people

1:12:08

ride these little mopeds the know on a

1:12:10

rental with an app that i can't believe

1:12:12

you could rent a bicycle that has the intellect

1:12:15

electric aspect to it and

1:12:17

then just pass it around for with a new york

1:12:19

city has become a bike the and

1:12:21

we're sharing sites i didn't

1:12:24

know that grown up here the it was like your

1:12:26

turn

1:12:28

i'm donna dislike it's your turn

1:12:29

did i would be trying to get some of the say d

1:12:32

jesse and a phase if i would a known

1:12:34

that

1:12:34

prisons an option the

1:12:37

you know what's a fan of life is hard with all

1:12:39

your documents like as i say don't

1:12:41

do it puts you know you can add your documents

1:12:44

a blind offered a few years your life a blind

1:12:46

person legally has the right of way when crossing

1:12:48

the street when he is and the answer

1:12:50

was led by a guide dog

1:12:52

or using a white or metallic came

1:12:55

with i see a guy was a great pain falko

1:12:58

if

1:12:59

the good point but if i see later

1:13:02

metallic i will respect them sit

1:13:05

as when you're allowed to hit a blind person that they don't have

1:13:07

hurricanes yeah if they're walking like an asshole

1:13:09

against the sign you have the right away

1:13:11

yet those spaces

1:13:14

were through the right thing always but sometimes

1:13:16

sometimes it's a sad the way to trip me up a

1:13:18

bicyclist differs from a motorist and

1:13:20

that he isn't required to what and

1:13:22

sir the by well i don't have

1:13:24

one avast

1:13:27

get the her i hope

1:13:30

he knows that my chair

1:13:33

the i hit somebody go i hope for them they

1:13:35

have insurance

1:13:37

there anyone like keith in prison

1:13:39

yeah think what

1:13:41

well as to what's it like to be a keith in

1:13:43

prison for the same that think so

1:13:46

yeah so everybody

1:13:48

thinks that prisons full a tough guys there's

1:13:50

so many people who do or die by just being

1:13:52

funny or just being like s on

1:13:54

the entertaining or just being something about

1:13:57

the v a for prison

1:14:01

we like these able they

1:14:03

know thing is everybody wants to be as comfortable

1:14:06

as possible so somebody can make you laugh have somebody

1:14:08

legal work if somebody can cook well deserved the

1:14:10

well it's just like on the world service gonna be as

1:14:13

easy to write so you're wealthy

1:14:14

did you like the funny guys the without

1:14:17

running

1:14:17

we are a couple of a really glad we're guys

1:14:20

like everybody loves his because they would come around a would

1:14:22

make your day they would make you laugh like no matter what you're

1:14:24

gone through enough put a smile interface was

1:14:27

hundred and here's another one i missed what does apple

1:14:29

duty you're driving skills and judgment and

1:14:31

i said it it it's bad

1:14:34

for driving skills but it's good for you judge

1:14:37

it's like ah it's

1:14:39

actually worse for all of them earn

1:14:41

money as a what are the cause of

1:14:43

a sign which tells you the distance and next exit

1:14:46

of a highway green with white letters has a has

1:14:48

even being supposed to know that without see enough

1:14:51

i don't think anybody would more the past the says

1:14:53

what are you gonna you're gonna follow the blue sciences

1:14:56

say to ten lakh other they're

1:14:58

gonna be the color they are i didn't

1:15:00

even know it was green was class

1:15:03

that a new york saying

1:15:05

then i never never so leases

1:15:07

or say thanks

1:15:08

never paid attention to the color

1:15:10

the i'd miss this when i first you're getting

1:15:12

on a highway woods has a very short entrance

1:15:14

lanes the safest way free to enter the

1:15:16

flow of traffic is why

1:15:18

in a way

1:15:21

when his absence way i don't i

1:15:23

don't remember that but the answer was waiting for a large gap

1:15:25

in traffic and and speed up quickly i

1:15:27

didn't get that right i don't think i'd is it going to

1:15:30

be the what is it quickly are be a little

1:15:32

bits and ah but be doing

1:15:34

the right thing i thought that was the answer them

1:15:37

i was sixteen when aids had this and eight i didn't

1:15:40

i didn't study that is a cigarette i've

1:15:42

seen signs in cars and they

1:15:44

do things eight i think is out one

1:15:46

wrong and i think or

1:15:49

is i will tell

1:15:49

can my parents it's still the making fun of me

1:15:51

oh you what is h fan for

1:15:54

lana

1:15:56

holy cow because he wanted

1:15:58

indication and

1:15:59

it

1:16:00

why do we need to know where hotels i'm like i

1:16:02

don't know there seem to be signs when we're on

1:16:05

a road know their whole town's coming up

1:16:07

i don't know until it gets hospital

1:16:09

you may want to know where a hospital is no way to

1:16:12

send me to prison i'm sorry

1:16:14

i bumped into the other bicyclist why

1:16:17

reprimanded a guess as know cigars

1:16:19

what i would subsidize said

1:16:22

for as little me that red cross symbol i

1:16:24

would say

1:16:25

mmm on the frail and why

1:16:27

is driving on an expressway differences

1:16:30

driving on an ordinary sir you

1:16:33

must think faster in the hands of your vehicle

1:16:36

more efficiently while i was known

1:16:38

as the whole time about that the

1:16:40

news anyway i gotta now

1:16:43

and i met your state of the cheat sheet else

1:16:46

you tease heat is a

1:16:48

land sadness

1:16:49

the computer is that you can just see can just

1:16:51

so and he doesn't look right at nobody's really

1:16:53

wants me at six am

1:16:54

the just minister a point on the other tab

1:16:56

you hit find that but that rectangular

1:16:59

signed speed limit you got the i knew

1:17:01

that see don't think it's soothing and then go

1:17:03

back flips and they got us

1:17:09

they excel congratulations so how long before

1:17:12

you can actually take your test and the a driving

1:17:14

member of society two weeks my friend

1:17:16

two weeks and then i'm in love nice cars

1:17:18

from the future and then i got a car

1:17:20

thou must be able to drive very

1:17:22

excited

1:17:24

we could you doing is figure out as into

1:17:26

lisi take a reuters yes

1:17:28

oh wow air get ready

1:17:36

when i said he , bag unlikely

1:17:39

like or he hit painless nine two

1:17:41

dollars a month and your car to make the south as

1:17:46

he says he has even know you in those to get off

1:17:48

the road were gonna be good can

1:17:50

be real real good actually

1:17:52

happy the real danger room where i am so we

1:17:54

have traffic circles they're like the new thing

1:17:57

and we the old people who apparently too old to know

1:17:59

what traffic circles me they stopped

1:18:01

like they start before they get on him when nobody's there

1:18:03

and then they like stop halfway around and it's like

1:18:05

oh my god you're in cause so many accidents you

1:18:07

know other than to use the right away if

1:18:09

you're already in a circle everyone knows

1:18:12

that

1:18:13

luckily cards has lights that go on

1:18:16

that say hey i'm starting or

1:18:18

i'm turning so never said

1:18:20

very very the full the bicycles

1:18:23

oh my god one time a sub so

1:18:25

short and my bike they flew

1:18:27

into i don't know what ever

1:18:30

franklin

1:18:32

hello my style make a class so

1:18:34

hard i had a black him the like a week

1:18:37

crashed into my own by because they

1:18:38

the fastest six six six

1:18:41

seats are then it by

1:18:43

the way the test says anything you want to add and

1:18:45

i wrote yeah of the law says i

1:18:47

can't thrive anyone to an abortion clinic

1:18:49

than i promise not to do with it's god's will

1:18:51

fuck up no i think that's

1:18:53

what to pull me over the edge and i got a third

1:18:55

of the town whatever they want i'll do it i see

1:18:58

just say that doesn't stop with a prison

1:19:00

reform right i clicked on something and

1:19:02

it led me to us why it's wrong

1:19:04

to was not the not cover

1:19:07

more sense in this country am i right

1:19:09

why did i talk about the criminalization of abortion

1:19:12

specific i talk about that we

1:19:14

have this idea that if we criminalize abortions in the suburbs

1:19:16

and i'm related to the criminalization of drugs which

1:19:18

has cost in our billions and billions of dollars

1:19:20

and cause millions of lives be ruined

1:19:23

and essentially accomplish nothing and if we

1:19:25

want to do that for abortion and we want to think that that's

1:19:27

moral high ground well i think it's hypocrisy

1:19:29

and it's it's i kind of ignorance of the highest level

1:19:32

have yeah

1:19:33

lead allies say

1:19:36

in a pregnant and

1:19:38

a boy and

1:19:39

that's why sit on drugs

1:19:42

be legal just success you

1:19:44

know i was on the fence on that was in prison

1:19:46

and then since getting out and talking to everybody that i

1:19:48

have who's add in are just terrible traumatic

1:19:50

experiences of the criminal justice system as

1:19:52

well as into the empowerment of gangs and cartels

1:19:55

and the problems we have i think having a regulated

1:19:57

legal drug system would make a lot more sense is

1:19:59

all those billions of dollars we pay the a t f

1:20:01

and we pay that the a d h pay these other

1:20:04

people we could use that like provide

1:20:06

treatment or fundamental social services

1:20:08

the people who need them the were that people

1:20:11

the in general it seems that they

1:20:14

understand you know how many people have done drugs

1:20:16

and then you know you only have so much or on you by

1:20:18

that seems like everybody can understand we

1:20:21

do arrest the cartels the

1:20:23

people not know where drugs come from or what i

1:20:26

don't understand it doesn't make any sense to me i

1:20:28

mean especially when you look at the like storied history of

1:20:31

of certain drugs in our country or drug laws

1:20:33

ah yeah i mean we've essentially have an entire

1:20:36

policy is based on like historically racist

1:20:38

historically application of law be that was who

1:20:40

has benefits and we have more alcohol

1:20:43

related arrests than dragoons as to the exception

1:20:45

of that know on heroin and yet that's not illegal

1:20:47

eminence just i don't if we play

1:20:49

i think it's like we we have inertia i

1:20:51

think that's reality a prison if

1:20:54

you were to take the prison system unexplained somebody would

1:20:56

never heard of it and basically say hey we're

1:20:58

to take people who can't function in society lock

1:21:01

them up with all the other people that can function in society

1:21:03

and then let them out simply like that's like that's

1:21:05

idea what you're guaranteed to like have more problems

1:21:08

but we've been doing it for so long we act

1:21:10

like it works same thing with the drug policy

1:21:12

same thing with a lot of the bridges the

1:21:14

a pregnant sixteen year old florida girl was

1:21:16

denied an abortion after judge ruled she

1:21:18

was to image source to decide

1:21:21

if she said terminate a pregnancy you

1:21:24

will be que m it's rid of the baby though that's

1:21:27

the thing or two matured if you know spend

1:21:29

most of the rest of her life in prison or any

1:21:31

other things service to be more mature

1:21:33

and nine months nine can or

1:21:36

the teen ah had not established

1:21:38

that she was this sufficiently matured

1:21:40

to decide whether to terminate her pregnancy

1:21:43

or could see have done played with their gm

1:21:46

like why am i doing y the

1:21:49

would could see have done this is the world's

1:21:51

se welcome to it what

1:21:54

the my my theory is if we're going to be imposing

1:21:56

like control over people's bodies we should man

1:21:58

he does i the a year and ten

1:22:01

census the , the dog ago

1:22:03

and crazy yeah we should mandate for second

1:22:05

these for every boy as soon as he goes into puberty

1:22:07

if we're going to like mandy control over anybody's bodies

1:22:09

have to be the boys because as hers both so and

1:22:11

everybody should have added a second a until the point at

1:22:13

which he proves that he's like capable of being a parent

1:22:15

and then that where we don't have to worry about unwanted pregnancies

1:22:18

and that where we don't have to worry about any further problems

1:22:20

and then we can control men's bodies new

1:22:22

suit new allies it stamps

1:22:26

that's why people sit on you online your say not

1:22:29

exactly ssssss

1:22:31

are what do you want people to know how to what how do we

1:22:33

check out this was out cause

1:22:35

of cause prison reform

1:22:37

you can check out a second hyphen chancer

1:22:40

dot at work or second chance or on all

1:22:42

social media tic toc facebook instagram or

1:22:44

youtube that's like an underscore

1:22:46

cancer and yeah i'm just trying to raise awareness

1:22:48

and i'm transferred human stories because it's

1:22:51

just like if you look at birgeneau the feeder feed

1:22:53

the world fund they don't can be statistics nobody

1:22:55

cares about specifically for you one starving kids

1:22:57

and sir michael's i can show you one reform prisoner

1:23:00

one person's gonna is doing something with your life

1:23:02

like this is what we can have like this is what people getting

1:23:04

out of prison can look like if we given the opportunities

1:23:07

in the sport and resources they need and

1:23:09

you know hopefully when rich people have a times it'll have to go

1:23:11

to prison the first place but as long as it's

1:23:13

a thing of us to says it's nobody cares how many people die

1:23:15

as long as they don't look like them or talk like

1:23:17

them or come from their neighborhood are related to them and

1:23:19

the more we can make that about you know actual people

1:23:21

the more people are going listen to

1:23:23

in by really follow jesse nonsense this is

1:23:25

therefore maybe you're like oh i'm of

1:23:27

to my eyeballs and doing good in the world

1:23:29

i told the get it they are incredible

1:23:32

videos that you put together entire

1:23:34

story that in one minutes and if

1:23:36

you happen to help him with reform

1:23:39

on the way than good i knew but he's

1:23:41

funny guy from prison cell phone that

1:23:44

is this the foods very very

1:23:46

very interesting damn i can't

1:23:48

believe that you see did all this shit out the year

1:23:51

it's it's the process like that trust

1:23:53

me like everytime i get a new i was on the google meet this morning

1:23:56

with a a grant writer we couldn't figure out google

1:23:58

me like i was glad that i wasn't the only [unk] they couldn't

1:24:00

figure out go the me that made me feel a better suits

1:24:02

it's just yeah just like elected

1:24:04

modern society yes eleven

1:24:06

excuse right and i know many

1:24:08

her met my , out of jail

1:24:11

free card i was in prison i never

1:24:13

would have never had a lot of do that as a citizen

1:24:16

to assess well good luck to your friends

1:24:19

friends luck to your dogs i'm gonna i would say

1:24:21

that up shut up and courtney

1:24:23

and thank you so much for your time they're

1:24:26

in a good idea attendance going

1:24:28

to atlantic city exciting

1:24:30

stuff what's the plan did you write

1:24:32

down a budget

1:24:34

yes the plan is mostly

1:24:38

they did a beach there would be there for one

1:24:40

night says beats

1:24:41

lot of times that on the beach we're going to one

1:24:44

tournament for about sixty dollars and

1:24:46

hopefully when that

1:24:47

nice

1:24:48

if we win over a thousand dollars

1:24:50

in that tournament we say one more night

1:24:52

what's up to them

1:24:55

the that has never have

1:24:57

dreamed of

1:24:57

the other

1:24:59

i've only ever play blades a

1:25:01

couple tournaments i did pretty well but i

1:25:03

don't know lucy most of it

1:25:06

is still distance saying and

1:25:08

i'm trying out instead of the buffets

1:25:10

were

1:25:11

either you get to politeness

1:25:13

and you wanna throw up or you

1:25:15

feel like you were robbed says he didn't eat

1:25:17

enough when a skip those we sound

1:25:19

a couple things that are like more local as

1:25:21

a taco stand are some things things that's

1:25:24

because unless you either both say

1:25:26

out in atlantic city he

1:25:28

did there's nowhere to eat this

1:25:30

is like really fancy restaurants or

1:25:32

all you can eat and his sister

1:25:34

of i wasn't a figure it out

1:25:36

canada will realize our i see

1:25:38

this as an added bonus they will he follows

1:25:42

so some meat is meat see you as she's back early

1:25:44

about that synthesizer that

1:25:47

good lox ah follow us on you tube

1:25:49

of course is how you saw this video if

1:25:51

you watch this ends we're going

1:25:53

to put up an older asylum trailers that

1:25:55

you can watch those are always fun so

1:25:57

a be subscribed to you tube channel where

1:25:59

they keep him a girl at said sassy

1:26:02

thanks again i proceed very much absolutely

1:26:05

thank you for having