0:12

Hello, Hi, Basmini.

0:15

How are you. I'm wonderful. How are

0:17

you?

0:18

I'm great?

0:19

So I

0:22

I guess I've been thinking about my vagina this morning

0:24

more than I ever do.

0:27

It tends to happen when people

0:29

have conversations with me to come up to me at parties

0:31

and they're like, so, can I talk to you about my US infection?

0:34

I'm like sure, Yeah, I just

0:36

reminded myself that I actually have one, And

0:39

then I'm right now thinking about when I

0:42

did stand up for the first and only time in my life

0:45

and said that there's no

0:47

way that Gwyneth Paltrow's

0:49

candle smelled anything like her

0:52

vagina, even on its best day.

0:54

I never smelled that candle, but I wanted

0:56

to.

0:57

You should have a vagiant I think you should have a vagina

0:59

candle.

1:00

By the way, that's

1:03

particularly on brand for us,

1:06

really out

1:08

supporting women's health and making

1:11

it more about them than it is about

1:13

me.

1:14

Yeah, that's true.

1:15

I know. Well good, No, it could be a general wellness

1:17

vagina candel just like putting good

1:20

good uh energy and

1:22

sense in the air.

1:23

I'll tell the marketing too. I like the

1:25

idea.

1:26

Yeah, well it's good, it's good. It makes sense

1:29

to talk about your vagina, So it makes

1:31

sense.

1:33

It does make sense.

1:34

I get it, Okay.

1:35

So I

1:37

know of you from the

1:40

Hills obviously, and then

1:43

like peripherally just seeing I guess through social

1:45

media or articles. I didn't

1:48

even know you worked with Jill and Charlie,

1:50

who I love. And every time Charlie's

1:52

with me, something crazy it happens.

1:55

Every time Charlie your probalysis is with me, something

1:57

insane happens.

1:58

It's weird he's sending

2:00

in hearts through the zoom.

2:01

Yeah, it's literally something so crazy.

2:04

Something crazy happens every time we're together.

2:07

So I look and I'm like, here we go. What's going to happen today?

2:09

Like something nuts, like someone attacks

2:11

me or something. So anyway, you're

2:13

in good hands with them. But I

2:16

know that peripherally I have gotten the

2:19

messages about your business just through your

2:21

social media or like I was aware

2:23

that you were in this female wellness

2:25

space. So how

2:27

did you transition from the Hills

2:30

and like, how did you get into this?

2:33

Yeah? So I started Love Wellness

2:36

in twenty sixteen, and

2:38

in the eight years that have passed

2:41

me by, I suppose the business has grown pretty

2:43

significantly. We're available

2:46

now stationwide at Walmart, at

2:48

Target, at Olta. But when I

2:50

started the business, it was very

2:53

much focused on a white space category,

2:55

which was women's wellness back into twenty

2:58

sixteen, and I started the

3:00

business really out of self need, which is like a very common

3:02

entrepreneur story. But I was

3:04

unwell. I moved to

3:06

New York in twenty twelve and I

3:09

still live here, and I

3:11

was going through sort of a breakup

3:13

that was really devastating, but simultaneously

3:16

was dealing with a lot of health issues. I was depressed

3:18

and anxious, but like in a

3:20

way that felt much more significant than I

3:22

had ever experienced before. It

3:25

was like a crippling type of depression

3:27

and anxiety where I just lay up the ground for a

3:29

while because I couldn't get

3:31

out of the house. And then

3:34

I was dealing with all of these intimate health

3:36

issues right like UTIs and east infections.

3:38

And I have obviously shared that story before,

3:40

which is you know why we're here

3:43

talking about maaginal health right now.

3:46

But I kept going to the doctor, and going

3:48

to the doctor as a woman and getting

3:51

gasoline is a particularly common

3:53

experience. I will

3:55

give you the example that the word hysteria

3:57

comes from the Greek word history,

4:00

which means uterus, So we've

4:02

just been gaslet since

4:04

the beginning of recorded history. When it comes

4:06

to our medical problems

4:09

and me going to the doctor, you

4:11

know, with these like recurrent symptoms was no

4:13

different. It took me eighteen months

4:16

from my first appointment to the

4:19

period where my GP finally said,

4:21

hey, let's do a blood test to test

4:23

your vitamin levels. Eighteen

4:25

months, right, She's like, oh God, lord's

4:27

your again. And that blood test came

4:29

back and showed that I had really severe vitamin

4:31

deficiencies, which was a very

4:33

interesting data point for me because

4:36

it allowed me to at least begin

4:39

my own research on how

4:41

to get better, and

4:43

I could at least go to different doctors saying,

4:45

hey, like, this is really happening in my body.

4:48

What I'm saying and what I'm experiencing is

4:50

the balid. Long story short,

4:52

I had a gut health problem because I think most

4:54

humans that exist right now have

4:57

got health problems right Like, we take antibiotics,

5:00

we eat a bunch of processed food, we drink

5:02

alcohol. We are constantly dealing

5:04

with microbiome disruptors, things

5:06

that basically affect your gut microbiome

5:09

and bacteria negatively. And

5:11

it turns out that the gut microbiome is not

5:13

only sort of like your sort

5:16

of home of your immune center and your body, but

5:18

your gut microbiome also

5:21

regulates and promotes your vaginal

5:24

microbiome, which is responsible

5:26

for the immunity and health of your vagina.

5:28

And so I was sort of able to connect

5:31

the dots with the help of my doctors back in

5:33

the day to say, oh, okay, I have vitamin deficiencies.

5:36

That makes sense if you have a gut health

5:38

issue, you may have a tougher

5:41

time absorbing the nutrients from your

5:43

food. Right. So like that

5:45

sort of like explains the path

5:48

up from like the gut to the brain because

5:51

I was dealing with D and B deficiencies,

5:53

which speaks to sort of those neurological concerns

5:55

that I was, you know, experiencing. And

5:58

then the gut vagina can is

6:00

also explained, right, And so if your vaginal

6:02

microbiome is in chaos,

6:05

because your gut microbiome is in chaos,

6:07

you're going to be much more susceptible to recurrent

6:09

infections, irritation, et

6:12

cetera. And so I

6:14

had all this information based on guidance

6:16

from doctors and research I did,

6:19

reading medical journals and like literally

6:21

going so far down the road

6:25

and kept going to the

6:27

pharmacy and to Dwayne read and looking around

6:29

and feeling like there are no solutions that

6:31

reflect this new research in

6:34

the women's health space, and

6:36

so why don't I develop

6:39

the innovation with my medical

6:41

community and with food scientists

6:44

and nutritionists to provide

6:46

new solutions in this space. And

6:48

so that's exactly what I did. I got

6:50

to wow, jumped off the cler

6:53

and the rest is history.

6:55

And that was eight years ago.

6:56

And so I asked this because with

6:59

so much information in every single area

7:01

from just yes, guts and hormones and

7:04

estrogen and menopause and all this stuff,

7:06

right, so I have elevated

7:09

my medical attention in the set because

7:12

I have a like a concierge doctor,

7:14

but not one of the BS ones or just does prescriptions.

7:16

Like he's very involved.

7:18

And he comes to my house and he takes my eco cardiogram,

7:20

and he takes all my bloods every periodically.

7:23

He and I did the twenty four hour y'urin test

7:26

and all this stuff, and he keeps coming back and

7:28

saying everything looks amazing,

7:31

and I don't take any vitamins,

7:33

like I don't take vitamins, and I sometimes

7:35

feel like I'm supposed to be entering this space because

7:37

people are. But I don't take hormones and I don't take vitamins,

7:40

and I'm almost and I eat well and

7:42

I'm almost old fashioned. Oh, in the

7:44

sense that I don't start something

7:46

like I have severe dehydration. It's a big

7:48

problem in my life. U pots

7:50

things, So that's my thing. Like everyone

7:53

is a different thing that they do, and that's my major

7:55

thing. I have to every day

7:57

be on the case. I have to have different hydration stuff

7:59

like that. That's my thing, and you had a

8:01

thing that was your thing. And my question

8:04

is for me personally,

8:07

I don't like I'm not experiencing

8:09

menopausals symptoms either, even though I'm

8:11

fifty three years old, and I feel

8:13

like I'm gaslighting menopause because

8:15

people ask me about it. I'm like, I don't really

8:17

know. I kind of react to things happening.

8:20

So I just want to talk about that to you, because

8:23

I don't sort of go and search out new things

8:25

to buy and take for me personally,

8:28

unless I feel like there's some version

8:30

like if there was something smelling weird or something was

8:32

weird, or I was expecting sex experiencing

8:34

sexual problems. So I want to talk about

8:37

that to you overall, like how people know if

8:40

they're supposed to just do something even if

8:42

it's not affecting them that they know of

8:44

and their doctor's saying it's not affecting them.

8:46

Yeah, I think that one

8:49

of the first things to do

8:52

is really take note of how you're feeling in

8:54

your body, right, Like how

8:57

do you feel day to day? Like how is your

8:59

energy. I know that this is going to be gross,

9:01

but like are you going to the bathroom regularly?

9:04

Like do you feel like your emotions

9:06

are like on a roller coaster? Right? Because

9:09

I think that there's this idea

9:11

that we're like generally in good health, but

9:13

there's like small signs

9:16

that you may be having an issue of some kind.

9:19

But above all, what I would say

9:21

is that finding the right doctor for you that

9:24

really takes a holistic approach

9:26

to medicine and considers total

9:28

body medicine versus just their

9:30

specialty which maybe just you know, gastroentrology

9:33

you'r obgyn, and really

9:36

uses the newest clinical research

9:38

that is available is

9:41

probably a good place to start.

9:43

Yes, digestion has been a lifelong

9:46

thing and you can manage

9:48

it and then you fall off.

9:50

I don't love to take, don't

9:53

I don't love to take pills, like even if it's neutrafil

9:55

because I feel like I want to make sure my hair stays

9:57

strong, Like I'll take it and then I'll fall off of

9:59

it. Vitamins make me sick, and swallowing

10:02

things make me like I just am not good and

10:04

diligent about that sort of stuff. And that's

10:06

why I see why the gummy space is blown

10:08

up. But to me, that's like not great for digestion. And also

10:10

it seems a little bs to me because I

10:12

wanted to get in that space because it makes it more accessible.

10:15

And I asked the question if it's better to just take

10:18

a gummy that say that it's doing something even if

10:21

you feel like does it outweigh?

10:23

Does that make any sense like a gummy is gonna have?

10:25

Of course it makes sense in my opinion.

10:28

And now I've been in a supplement space

10:30

for eight years. As I said, I've had extensive

10:32

conversations with our contract manufacturers,

10:35

our food scientists, and people that actually make these

10:37

things day to day and understand what

10:39

goes into these things. In my opinion,

10:42

gummies are just candy bullshit, and

10:45

you can't really fit the right amount

10:47

of ingredients into the gummy to have

10:50

efficacious results. Exactly the ingredients

10:52

and gummies degrade really quickly, and so

10:54

if you're serious about your health, like a capsular

10:57

tea sure is absolutely in my opinion,

10:59

again, the superior format.

11:02

Yes, and tincture is more manageable because you can

11:04

put it, you can put it inside a

11:06

liquid. I think a tincture to me, or like

11:08

a tonic type of thing, is more a

11:10

pill.

11:11

I just can't tolerate.

11:12

And I feel the same way that you feel about gummies being

11:14

bullshit, like I really do. Yes, they might

11:16

have something, but I know it's bullshit

11:18

because I was in the space I was. I had Skinny

11:21

Girl supplements and I kept wanting to push for them

11:23

because of course it's I agree, it's candy. You're just

11:25

like, oh, it's set. It's like a Starbucks

11:27

muffin that you're pretending it's like it says

11:29

it's low fat and like it's multi graine and you're

11:31

supposed to pretend that it's healthy.

11:33

I think it's bullshit too.

11:35

I think what's also interesting in the supplement

11:37

space is that brands like LAG Wellness and

11:39

you know, all of the other brands

11:41

in the space, consumers are now holding

11:43

us to a higher standard from a testing

11:46

perspective and transparency perspective. So

11:49

right now we are putting all of our products

11:51

through clinical testing so that we can say, hey,

11:53

like, this product is clinically proven to do X

11:55

y Z. Right now, a lot of brands are using

11:58

a clinically studied ingredient a

12:00

product and making much bigger claims

12:02

about the product than like is the

12:04

reality. We're just problematic,

12:07

right, Like, it's false and it's deceptive, and

12:10

I suspect long term, when gummy

12:12

companies are pushed to do clinicals,

12:14

that their products will most likely fail

12:17

becau it's a result of you know, the

12:20

true like inefficacy of that format,

12:23

if that makes sense. And so I think that there will

12:25

be a gummy reckoning in the next year or so

12:28

where consumers start to learn

12:30

more about the format and learn about

12:33

the I think so to problems

12:35

with the format, and like, if you

12:37

really are looking for health benefits

12:40

and to support your health, like a different

12:42

format is the way to go. And I will also

12:45

say, you know, before I started

12:47

my business, before I knew that I had

12:49

like vitamin deficiencies as a true cause

12:51

of health issues, I also was

12:53

like, oh, like, I don't really think that supplements

12:56

are the real deal. I don't think that like they're

12:58

important, and now that I

13:00

see how much

13:02

they can release support overall health, especially

13:05

in women's bodies with the things that we're dealing

13:07

with, you know, I really do believe

13:09

in what we make and what we sell.

13:12

Well, if what would you start with if you were

13:14

me?

13:14

Based on what I said, like behind you, there's so much

13:16

stuff that's overwhelming.

13:18

I get things. They're my cabinet.

13:20

I like the idea of magnesium and calm and

13:22

those powders like that that I understand.

13:24

I've tried Magnus seven. That's good for digestion.

13:27

I like the idea of neutrophil because I get it, Like

13:29

those are things that are direct. Some of these nuanced

13:32

things are too intimidating and overwhelming for me.

13:35

Right, So this is not medical

13:37

advice, right, only your doctor can give

13:40

medical as your friend.

13:41

This is a girlfriend advice.

13:42

As a friend. I would say that

13:45

a lot of people, a lot of Americans

13:47

are struggling with a vitamin defficiency

13:50

of some sort. The CDC notes that

13:52

ninety percent of Americans have a vitamin deficiency.

13:55

And I'm also the belief that most of us probably

13:58

have some some kind of gut health

14:00

issues. What's

14:02

tough is that it's tough to test that. Like,

14:04

yeah, you could like literally like do a

14:07

microbiome test of your stool,

14:09

but we don't have a great picture

14:11

of what a healthy microbiome

14:13

looks like. It could be different in every

14:15

person, Like we don't really know yet from

14:17

a scientific perspective. So

14:20

what I would actually recommend before you go down

14:22

the summits road is to

14:25

talk to your doctor about your gut

14:27

health and your gut health symptoms, and

14:29

first start with an elimination diet, because

14:32

an elimination diet is a really

14:34

good place to start to understand

14:37

what some of your potential trigger foods

14:40

could be that may be leading

14:42

to gut dysbiosis, that may be leading to inflammation.

14:45

Right, And so I think that there's a lot

14:47

that you can do before you go down

14:49

the supplement's road to better

14:51

understand your own body and

14:53

the things that you may be struggling

14:56

with. First, but I do think

14:58

a good multivitamin and a good probiotic

15:01

is a great good start for anybody,

15:03

just because of all of the environmental factors,

15:05

lifestyle factors, et cetera that we all know that

15:08

we're dealing with every single day.

15:09

It's funny the entry points because you could

15:11

come at things in a different way. And for me by

15:14

digestion has always been an issue and the thing that

15:16

helps digestion for me is sleeping

15:19

and being.

15:21

Dehydration, I think is.

15:22

Such a big issue that people don't talk about enough,

15:24

Like it's not something that commonly.

15:26

I hear people talking.

15:27

About, yes, I feel dehydrated or today,

15:29

but like as a debilitating issue. And I'll hear

15:31

so many different people say that

15:34

they have like a terrible headache, and I'll be like,

15:36

you're dehydra like they don't realize. Or I

15:39

you know something I drank last night and it hit me weird.

15:41

I'm like, how dehydrated were you? Or like you were traveling.

15:43

I think dehydration is such a thing that you

15:45

know, I always make jokes and I'm a thirsty bitch,

15:48

but I feel it affects digestion too.

15:51

Yeah, hydration definitely can

15:53

have they believe the negative and popt

15:55

on gut.

15:55

Help and absorption affects hydration too,

15:58

correct.

15:58

Yeah, absorption

16:01

from you know, absorption and hydration

16:03

are all connected. And that's actually we're working

16:05

on something. I loved wellness that sort

16:07

of speaks to that that's coming to you what we're really excited

16:09

about. But hydration

16:13

also can a flex effect, like your

16:15

blood pressure and like all these different things throughout your

16:17

body that I don't think that people have

16:19

like broad awareness on totally.

16:21

It's my problem, that's my issue.

16:22

So yes, but I can drink your drink,

16:25

your water, toss and electrolyte in totally

16:27

help those little cells hold on to that salt. You

16:29

know.

16:30

Yes, I'm a person that affects my blood pressure.

16:32

I fains like I have severe dehydration issues.

16:46

So you were on the hills and when you

16:49

came up with this, you had this debilitating depression

16:52

and you started in this business. Did you

16:54

have money? How were you supporting yourself? Who

16:56

who backed this?

16:58

Do you have partners?

16:59

So I started the business

17:01

on my own with the

17:04

small amount of savings I had left

17:06

from my last season on the hills,

17:09

Okay, and I operated

17:11

the business for the first two years

17:14

as a solo founder and operator. I

17:16

was the one who's just like completely

17:19

running the business. And in the second

17:21

or third year, I started to realize,

17:24

I think this could be a real business. I

17:26

think we are genuinely affecting women's

17:28

lives in a really positive way. But

17:32

yeah, I mean the money like was like literally

17:34

my last savings. So I was transitioning from

17:36

a point where the hills ended. In twenty

17:38

ten, I moved to Califora started moved to New

17:40

York in twenty twelve. I had gone

17:42

to culinary school when I first moved to New York because

17:45

I loved to cook, and at culinary school I started

17:47

to become really passionate about nutrition

17:49

and understanding kind of healthy food swaps

17:52

and things like that.

17:53

Same so where did you go to

17:55

the.

17:55

French Culinary Institute and soho.

17:58

Oh amazing, Okay, okay, I went to Natural

18:00

Gourmet that's a rat.

18:01

And I started creating all this cooking content and

18:03

all this stuff. And I

18:05

really love science. I'm like so passionate about

18:07

the subject matter, whatever it is. And when I

18:10

started to be able to tie my own experience

18:12

to the nutrition information I was learning

18:14

about, I started to get really excited

18:16

and passionate about it, and I think entrepreneurship

18:19

was probably always going to be the path for me. I

18:22

didn't know where I would land, per

18:24

se, but I felt like

18:27

my idea and my concept

18:29

was a really good one because when I started

18:32

using boric acid and probiotics

18:34

and intimate cleansers without fragrance,

18:36

and my health fundamentally changed

18:38

for the better. And I thought, this

18:40

experience can be replicated and

18:42

it can be made beautiful. We can educate

18:45

people about their bodies to reduce shame

18:47

and stigma, and yeah, so I

18:49

just I kind of went for it. And at

18:51

the time on my social channels, I had started

18:53

to talk about my depression and my health and it

18:55

was very challenging for me. I think

18:58

coming off reality TV, and everyone

19:00

knows now that if you were on reality TV, it's

19:02

a very traumatic experience. You talk about

19:04

this a lot. There's a lot that the

19:07

audience doesn't see or know about

19:09

the experience that a lot of us just

19:12

kind of sit on and you kind of deal with it and move

19:14

forward anyway. But

19:16

I decided that like part of my healing

19:19

from being on those shows was to talk

19:22

about what I was actually experiencing. With so

19:24

my social media community really

19:26

became a very supportive community for the

19:28

health issues that I was struggling with, and

19:30

so launching the business to a certain

19:33

degree was a very natural segue for me at the

19:35

time, because I was so entrenched in these health

19:37

struggles and I was like sharing my health struggles

19:39

with my natural line.

19:42

It's funny because I've been talking for the first

19:44

time. I went through a decade long, horrific

19:46

divorce, and once it was quote

19:49

unquote over, I think I just

19:51

shut the door because I had also been

19:53

on reality TV, and I just didn't

19:55

realize what was like inside of me until really

19:57

recently. And I've been calling it on lock

20:00

trauma because all these women are coming

20:02

forward and like sharing, and it's just like this

20:04

thing I did not expect, but these like unlocked

20:07

traumas from yeah, and you're right,

20:10

like the reality TV played into it too,

20:12

and it becomes your identity and you're like living

20:15

in this judgment and this

20:17

toxic environment that you've pretended is

20:19

normal in any way whatsoever.

20:21

But it's over.

20:22

And then also you're probably type

20:25

cast even sometimes now like myself

20:27

sometimes where you're that girl from the hills despite

20:31

the one hundred million dollar business you've built.

20:34

Yeah, totally.

20:36

I was talking to brand the other day and they were like, oh, should

20:38

your byline be reality TV?

20:41

Person? I was like, actually, I'm the founder

20:43

and chair of this business that you

20:45

know has like fundamentally changed

20:47

women's health in this country. But sure

20:50

real TV.

20:52

Is fine? Yeah, exactly.

20:54

And because you're not here, you're dancing with the

20:56

one who brung you also, But it's ridiculous

20:58

and I really get that too. So

21:02

I guess part of your identity right now

21:05

in what I was reading about, you were part of the

21:07

discussion in the conversation emotional

21:10

health and being single at

21:12

thirty seven and is there a stigma? And you're supposed

21:14

to be doing something and you're supposed to be meeting

21:16

someone, and you're supposed to be having kids. And it's

21:19

weird because I'm feeling these parallel paths to you

21:21

with you a that I went to culinary school for food

21:23

and healing, literally, but

21:26

be that I'm right now talking about

21:29

this path that I felt that I needed to be on

21:31

at thirty seven, which was fear based about

21:33

having kids and locking it down and meeting someone

21:35

and like that, no one's

21:38

marketing to young women, and I consider you

21:40

young. There are younger women, but I'm

21:42

considering all ages from let's pretend like twenty

21:44

two to in their forties.

21:47

No one's talking about like what

21:50

it really means to get married and that

21:52

it really does, like the statistics

21:55

about divorce and the fact that people are settling,

21:57

the fact that people aren't being logical and reading

21:59

red flags, and the fact that women who

22:02

I know are making hundreds of

22:04

thousands of dollars feel uncomfortable having someone

22:06

sign a prenup, Like it's like so illogical

22:09

and so archaic, the way that women are feeling

22:11

about having to be in a relationship. And

22:13

I think that there's like a we're

22:15

on the precipice. And I think I'm contributing

22:18

to this of it being like, no, actually

22:20

you have to be a full person and you're really great,

22:22

not just because you're saying you're really great, but you

22:25

like, actually are really great being

22:27

alone. You don't need quote unquote

22:29

a man or a woman. So I want to know you where

22:31

you are in that vortex.

22:34

Yeah, So I

22:36

was single for the past four

22:38

or five years. I've

22:41

been dating somebody for the past five months who

22:43

is absolutely incredible

22:46

and It took me a very long

22:48

time to get to a place where I

22:50

was actually comfortable on my own because

22:53

I did buy into all

22:55

of that bs about your

22:57

behind. You know, how could you be

23:00

single? You know all of these things, and

23:02

it really was tough for me. I

23:04

think because of the expectation

23:08

that I should be married, i should have a family,

23:10

when in reality, I'm going

23:12

to work every day and like kicking my own ass

23:15

to like grow this business, whereas

23:17

if a man was in my position, he would be applauded.

23:20

Right.

23:20

You should see the number of dms like

23:22

why are you married yet? Like visit you know what

23:24

I mean, Like drove me crazy over the past couple

23:26

of years.

23:27

But that also has a little of misery. Loves

23:29

companies.

23:30

Some people are not like that, thrilled in their

23:32

own lives and they want someone else to be like on

23:34

their road.

23:34

They don't know how to be open minded.

23:36

It would be incomprehensible that a woman would

23:38

just choose to be alone or not have

23:40

met the right person and not be making decisions out

23:42

of fear.

23:44

Of course. But I think all of this to say

23:46

is that when I was really struggling

23:49

emotionally with being single, I

23:51

was not the best version of myself. It probably

23:53

could be in a really successful relationship

23:56

with the type of partner that I deserve,

23:58

right, And it's why I dated guys for so many

24:01

years and chased assholes

24:03

that had like red flags like coming out of

24:05

their butts, you know what I mean. It wasn't

24:07

until last year when I finally

24:09

like came to a place of peace with

24:12

my own situation that

24:15

the perfect man appears, you know what

24:17

I mean. And now, because I feel like

24:19

I'd peeled through that trauma, I

24:21

am ready and able

24:23

to be in a relationship you

24:26

know that I am deserving of at this point

24:28

in my life. Right.

24:29

Yes, it's interesting because I was talking

24:32

to a woman who specializes

24:34

in like the dating space and I read an article

24:37

and I don't think that women,

24:39

young women are checking in with themselves and saying

24:42

what you just said, which is this article that

24:44

she wrote was saying, if you want to start

24:46

dating and you want to start meeting people, make sure

24:49

that you're the full person that you

24:51

would want to date. And you know what

24:53

that is, Like I remember being the person that was up

24:55

late night like binging, drinking,

24:58

like miserable, depressed, like the way make

25:00

up the next day, try to be better or feeling

25:02

depressed or miserable or lonely or mercurial,

25:04

like it's hard in the moment to check in, but

25:06

I don't.

25:07

I definitely know. I never asked myself that question.

25:10

Yeah, I started to have to ask

25:12

myself that question, you know, when like the

25:14

relationships I continued to be and were really

25:16

failed relationships. And what was my

25:19

role in the failed relationship?

25:20

Right?

25:21

Some of the time I didn't show up. Sometimes

25:23

I go to people, right, So it was a reflection

25:25

of my own immaturity, right.

25:28

And I think for me though, the

25:31

Internet to a certain degree played a role in

25:33

it for me, because I think that

25:36

everyone on the Internet presents this happy

25:38

version of themselves, right like through their marriages,

25:41

through their children, their engagements and all this stuff.

25:43

And I for years felt so less

25:46

then because I wasn't

25:48

able to share things of

25:51

that nature, do you know what I mean? And so I think

25:53

that while like

25:57

we have just even us like having

25:59

this converse about this topic, I think like helps

26:01

to like move the needle to a certain degree,

26:04

but I think social

26:06

media like creates an

26:08

imbalance there that even goes beyond

26:11

just regular societal norms, and

26:13

I think I really struggled with that personal

26:16

well.

26:16

I was talking last night to somebody about The

26:18

Bachelor and the responsibility of the bat

26:20

You have two people, Let's say someone's mom

26:22

is a nurse or the dead, you know, is

26:24

a middle class working person. They're

26:27

not casting billionaires on the show. So

26:29

you have two people that meet and then you

26:31

take them to the most exotic, gorgeous

26:33

place, is the most incredible experience. No

26:35

one's talking about money, no one's talking about religion,

26:38

no one's talking about politics that doesn't exist in

26:40

Disneyland, and they're all

26:42

going, who's not going to fall in love with somebody eating

26:44

caviar on the mountaintop

26:47

jumping out of an airplane. And so then they come

26:49

back to their real lives and it's like this irresponsible

26:51

situation where you even have the Golden Bachelor,

26:54

which was like all these women, you know my age,

26:56

were so excited because it's such bullshit,

26:59

Like it's not really like, let's talk about what really

27:01

goes on when people have to deal

27:03

with financial issues, or would you do therapy?

27:06

Like it's kind of irresponsible for people

27:08

to get this either fairy tale

27:10

with like just the dress and the Ring or

27:13

these shows that are doing this or

27:15

social media. Everyone's showing the perfection of

27:17

their relationship. One day they break up and they want you to

27:19

then respect their privacy when.

27:21

They only showed you.

27:22

They always showed you the fantasy, the fairy

27:24

tale, the j lo a Rod were invested in their

27:27

co mingling of the family, and one day it

27:29

just crashes and burns and we're left to respect

27:31

the privacy. And it's like, that's

27:34

you know what we're we're

27:36

fed. We're not fed that there's a sixty percent

27:38

chance of divorce, So we might as well start educating ourselves

27:41

on relationships and what really it takes or who

27:44

you are and why you're making these choices.

27:46

Yeah, I think for me, if

27:48

you are not able, or if you're not in a

27:50

relationship where you can have a very

27:53

straightforward conversation

27:55

where emotion doesn't play like a leading

27:58

role in it about where you want to live

28:00

or your finances or children or all of

28:02

that stuff, like, you may not be ready

28:04

for that relationship, right. I think that when

28:06

you feel good about yourself and your solid and who

28:09

you are, you're much more inclined to be able

28:11

to speak to those things about a partner that

28:13

you love, and it is like hoping

28:15

has the same POV or has a

28:18

different POV and you can come to a new conclusion

28:20

together. Right. I keep seeing

28:22

I keep seeing these things on the internet from sort

28:25

of like I don't know, they're

28:27

psychotherapists, sort of driven off

28:29

eds, but they're actually really great. And they make

28:32

this suggestion about implementing

28:34

a monthly relationship check in or

28:37

you know what, you choose the timeline right, and

28:40

you know, it's like a list of questions you can talk

28:42

to your partner about or ask you a partner about in

28:44

terms of like check ins right like this

28:47

month, you know, like did you feel like I showed up for

28:49

you in the right way? Or you know what could I have done

28:51

differently? Or this is what I'm bored on.

28:53

And I think that those types of suggestions

28:55

are so good, But again,

28:58

it takes so much work, emotional

29:01

work to be able to get to a place where

29:03

you can be like, hey, honey.

29:05

Like it's not sexy, it's not that

29:07

sexy. It's tedious, but yes.

29:08

It's not it's not sexy. But I do think

29:10

fundamentally it's a really good exercise

29:13

because just to your point,

29:15

you can go on vacation and everything seems

29:17

amazing, but there might

29:19

be one or two things that you know were in the

29:21

back of your mind that like you wish you could talk

29:23

about. But so maybe the list is like a

29:25

good format for that right to like encourage the conversation.

29:28

I don't know.

29:29

Yeah, it's no. I think it's interesting.

29:31

I call it what you're

29:33

talking about getting in a car

29:35

and the beginning, everything seems great. So you might get

29:37

in a car and it has a sign that it's going to a different

29:39

place than you want to go, but you're like, it's fine, that seems

29:41

fun, let's do that, and then you're in the wrong car,

29:44

not like looking over at the passenger being

29:46

like, wait a second, now we're getting off here. Now

29:48

we're doing this like I you know, and it's your it's

29:50

kind of your own fault because you got in the wrong car and

29:53

you didn't check in like for the journey

29:55

of where you're going. I think so anyway, I

29:57

think that's just interesting. What

30:10

is your relationship to the

30:13

Hills and the other girls and

30:15

their trajectory?

30:16

Like, are you guys friends? Are

30:18

you college?

30:19

You know?

30:19

What's your relationship is girls?

30:21

It's interesting. Lorne and I are

30:23

friends, and there are rumblings

30:26

that there may be a twentieth anniversary

30:28

special of Laguna Beach. That's like coming

30:31

down the pipeline maybe, Okay.

30:34

I sort of talked to a couple of people about

30:36

it because we graduated

30:39

from high school in two thousand and four, and

30:41

so it's twenty twenty four. It is our true

30:43

twenty year high school reunion this year,

30:46

and so in the context of Laguna,

30:49

I think that it would be great to get back together

30:51

with the old gang. I think that everybody is doing

30:53

really well. Everybody is really friendly,

30:56

and Laguna was like a kind nice version

30:58

of reality TV. Right, you get to the Hills

31:00

and it's like much bigger

31:04

the drama and trauma

31:06

perspective, right, And so

31:09

the people on the hills, I think the

31:11

relationships are more challenged because

31:14

of the experiences that we went through

31:16

a man not of our own, not

31:18

by our own fault, right, We right,

31:21

like very young women like

31:25

constantly put into compromised

31:28

situations where we had to

31:31

basically like blood sported out

31:33

against each other to get through

31:35

a day of production.

31:37

Zero game, it's kill or be killed, and

31:39

if you kill someone, you're doing your job, so

31:41

you're rewarded for bad behavior.

31:43

It's the upside down. If someone gets drunk

31:46

or does say something terrible, that's rewarded

31:48

with ratings. If someone is boring

31:50

and nice, that's penalized.

31:53

So you're in the upside down and you're at

31:55

your job. If you're a soldier and you're the unsullied

31:58

and Game of Thrones, you're supposed to go kill

32:00

people. And I was an excellent reality

32:02

star, like, you know, one of the best there's been

32:04

because I and so, yeah, some people

32:07

think I just want to go kill people. And I've

32:09

met people in this environment since leaving

32:11

it and think they're lovely, and

32:13

I like literally was brainwashed

32:15

into thinking they weren't lovely on

32:18

my show and you know, other franchises, because

32:20

you're supposed to be in a competition with

32:22

these people. That's just what is bread.

32:25

Yeah, I think for me, I was not as good

32:27

on reality TV because I

32:30

was always too afraid to like really

32:32

jump in and I'm just not really

32:34

that way by my teacher, and

32:36

so I

32:39

like served a very specific role, which

32:42

I'm actually grateful for in hindsight, I

32:44

didn't really have to get into it too

32:46

much. But in the areas where I did.

32:48

It still kind of haunts me to this day because

32:51

there's so many stories behind

32:53

the story that everybody saw on television

32:56

that run very counter

32:58

to like what the public think about you,

33:01

right, And so I think that that is

33:03

tough for me to have to

33:07

sort of like deal with, right, And I don't

33:09

think about it that much. But again, preparing

33:11

for this podcast, like, I woke up with anxiety

33:14

this morning because I was like, oh my gosh, I'm talking to Bethany

33:16

today, like one of the greatest reality

33:18

stars of all time, and like, is she gonna

33:20

ask me scary questions I don't want to answer,

33:23

you know.

33:24

No, But the thing is you I'm not saying

33:26

you're like herve necessarily that she's really sweet

33:28

and I like her a lot, and she's she wants

33:31

nothing to do with any of this. Tinsley is

33:33

an example. You would have been Tinsley on my show.

33:35

She was a nice girl who came in and just

33:37

like was good, you know, like

33:40

a secondary or a second tier character,

33:43

and was lovely and amazing, and like I

33:46

would have conflict with her because that

33:48

was my job. And don't forget, I grew up at the racetrack,

33:51

like raised by animals, and I could, like I

33:53

could come in and and make a TV

33:55

and do it and land the plane and didn't even think

33:57

about it was just what you did.

33:59

You moved product. Like you

34:01

move product, you're moving story.

34:03

So Tinsley's someone that off the show,

34:05

like I really think is a lovely person. I'm really happy

34:07

for her, and I always think of her as that example

34:09

of someone like if you and I were on the

34:11

show together, you'd probably hate me now,

34:14

you'd think she's frightening, Like

34:16

holy shit, you know, because I was

34:19

at war and now meeting all these people

34:22

that all have different types of personalities.

34:24

Not everybody's the alpha, not

34:26

everybody. You know, people fill in the whole puzzle

34:29

of life. But you don't cast

34:31

that with reality TV. You want people to come

34:33

in and have conflicts.

34:36

So I understand exactly what you're talking

34:38

about. And I bring up Tinsley because I really

34:40

liked her. I support her, and it was a different experience

34:44

off the show than what happened on

34:46

the show, which I regret. And it wasn't

34:48

even a big thing that happened with her and I were fine. I'm just saying

34:50

it's just things that I think about and remember because

34:52

it's traumatic for everybody completely.

34:55

Yeah, and I think for us, we were some of the earliest

34:57

people on reality TV in

34:59

the context that people think

35:01

about when it comes to reality TV

35:04

people, and so like we were like the first

35:06

little you know people in that Petrie

35:08

dish, and we had to learn very

35:10

much in real time that what

35:13

we're experiencing actually

35:16

is not what is being you

35:19

know, edited on the cutting room floor and

35:21

then shared with the world.

35:22

But you also don't even know you're on a

35:24

show. You don't realize what's going on. You did not

35:26

know there's a whiteboard. You think your people

35:29

are right.

35:30

I had no.

35:31

Idea in those early years that the executive

35:33

producers are in a room with whiteboards

35:36

and that now the entire season and post

35:38

it notes being like we're going to have this person do

35:40

this, and we're going to have this person do this. I

35:42

don't know if on Real Housewives they did this, but on

35:44

the Hills, we would shoot a scene

35:47

and after we would shoot it once, they'd

35:49

be like, okay, guys, time to repoe the cameras

35:52

and they would move the cameras to a different position

35:55

and they would shoot the scene again. And they would do

35:57

it up to five or six times for each

35:59

scene. And so that's part of

36:01

why I think on the Hills in

36:04

real life there wasn't a lot of conflict,

36:06

and then the show would come out and it would

36:08

be produced to show incredible

36:11

conflict between people. But when you shoot

36:13

a scene and then next year it would inform Yeah,

36:16

right, people

36:18

see themselves getting shit on or

36:21

as the villain when the show

36:23

comes out, not reflective of the current

36:25

reality, but it informs your

36:27

thinking. It informs your behavior

36:29

on a go forward basis, Oh, she doesn't

36:32

like me, I'm going to actually not like her

36:34

in real life. And that for me

36:36

is like, how do I

36:38

make this better? There's no way to make it better.

36:40

I exactly start to like talk

36:43

about it.

36:44

Right.

36:44

There's not a lot of recourse

36:46

for us except for sharing our stories

36:50

and telling people what really went

36:52

on.

36:53

It's so true and for me, like looking

36:55

at all those the women and it all, I

36:57

see everyone different. I see people that I really

36:59

disliked, even a US all franchises, because

37:01

I see that they're doing their job, that they're being paid

37:03

for, and I realize that that's not exactly who

37:05

they are. And it's very tempting when it

37:07

gets to a certain financial level, and I

37:09

sadly get it.

37:10

I don't have to do that.

37:12

And I think that the genre

37:14

has changed and gotten infinitely more

37:17

disgusting and more toxic because.

37:18

You have to raise the game.

37:20

So you when you were on Laguna,

37:24

who were who were the people?

37:25

Stephen? It was? It was Kristin,

37:28

you.

37:28

And Stephen, Kristin, Lauren,

37:32

myself, Christina Schuler, Morgan

37:34

Smith, a couple of others. Theater.

37:36

You know, it was like our real little

37:38

crew from Laguna, and like Brody wasn't

37:40

until later you were on the Hills.

37:42

Yeah, okay, okay.

37:43

It was small, you know, it's like less maybe

37:45

it was one hundred and fifty kids per class,

37:47

and we were a really tight knit community. Everybody

37:49

had grown up with each other, you know, since we were young.

37:52

So it's a very like tight knit little

37:54

crew of people on that show.

37:57

And the first season or two of

37:59

Laguna, the original executive producers

38:01

and team that created the show were so kind

38:04

and so nice, and then the

38:06

production team flipped to to

38:09

her aggressive style leadership.

38:13

And that's when you know you're

38:15

getting paid a decent amount of money and your

38:17

boss, the executive producer is like, you're going to

38:20

do this, yes. Now.

38:21

Heidi and Spencer were on my talk show

38:23

and they said that they would get like rewarded

38:26

with that. She got like a burkin or something

38:28

for when he threw out of the car and he's like, I would never throw

38:30

out of the car.

38:30

And they're still together to this day.

38:32

Them being you know, in a relationship

38:34

to this day says something. It

38:36

says like it couldn't have all been real,

38:38

which we know. And Lauren

38:41

was the first entrepreneur

38:43

that I remember. I remember calling this agent

38:46

and wanting to be represented and she's, you know,

38:48

younger than I am, and they said, he's

38:50

all focused on Lauren like she was crushing

38:53

the game, and then she really kind of stepped

38:55

back and just checked out. As

38:58

it seems like Whitney didn't a way too. Do

39:01

you think that's because it was just like also

39:04

public and commercial or just

39:06

like the nature of life and

39:08

getting you know, in relationships, because I remember,

39:10

you don't really see much about Lauren at all anymore,

39:12

and she was like the first big commercial one to me.

39:16

Yeah, I think that they

39:18

were famous to a degree that

39:21

whenever anything happened that was negative,

39:23

the glowback felt so significant and

39:26

so life changing that

39:29

you really live with that trauma and

39:31

it affects you want to go forward basis in

39:34

terms of how much you're inclined to share with people.

39:36

Right, totally, Hey, I did this.

39:39

The experience that I had of this is very negative.

39:42

Why would I continue to do this?

39:44

And also, you were being paid to share.

39:47

You were being paid and to share your life.

39:49

It was literally a transaction now

39:51

like, for example me, I'm not paid to share

39:53

my life. I'll share what I want when I want, and

39:55

no one I don't have to, like you know what I mean, even

39:57

with Jill, my publicist, like she'll make tough shit you to

40:00

say anything, say whatever you want, Like you're not in a

40:02

car, but you could say to me, oh what about this? I'm

40:04

like, yeah, you write me a check if

40:06

you want.

40:06

Me to tell you that. I'm to tell you anything I don't want to tell you.

40:08

Yeah.

40:09

I think we're not being paid to share your whole life

40:11

anymore.

40:12

Right. I think many of us had

40:15

tough experiences, you know, on the Internet

40:17

and you know, social media and all of that stuff, which

40:19

is everybody understands that now. And

40:21

so I think that people do get

40:24

why there's a hesitation. You

40:26

know, it's like we had these terrible experiences

40:28

that were very unique at the time, and now they're

40:30

better understood. But yeah,

40:32

I mean enough people online

40:35

say horrible things about you for long

40:37

enough that you are not inclined

40:39

to continue to share parts about your life,

40:41

especially again when you stop being paid

40:43

to do so.

40:44

Totally you're the best. Wow, Well,

40:47

did I scare you at all? You said you had anxiety.

40:49

I'm so sorry.

40:50

Did I Did I scare you at all? No?

40:53

I will say I saw you last summer at Sagpizza

40:56

and you're with your family, and I was like, should I say hi?

40:58

And I was like no, I'm just gonna like letter do you do

41:00

you go to the Hampton? Yeah,

41:03

of course you do. Were mostly

41:06

Sag Harbor. I think this summer Bridge Hampton, but

41:09

yeah, I go on every summer.

41:10

Oh well, let's get together in the Hamptons. I'm gonna I'm

41:12

gonna be there. I just renovated a new house

41:15

on the beach and I'm like getting ready, it's

41:17

happening now.

41:17

I'm excited.

41:18

Wow, I love that. And the weather just turned

41:20

so nice.

41:21

I yay, amazing. Oh well, I

41:23

will be thinking about my vagina all day

41:25

now and other parts of my body.

41:28

And I'm so proud of you. Congratulations

41:30

on all your success and on

41:33

your amazing publicist team. And

41:36

I can't wait to try some of the things. It's so much behind

41:39

you. I got to look it up online and like, see what I want.

41:41

We will send you everything from Lovelannas,

41:44

or if you want to go shopping, you can go to Old cub Walmart

41:46

or Target and fine.

41:47

Amazing, amazing, great, great space

41:50

making meaning out of a crazy

41:52

start.

41:52

So thank you so much, awesome.

41:56

I have a great day.