0:12

Hi, how are you good?

0:14

How's it gone?

0:15

It's going? Well? Do you mind if I asked how old you are?

0:18

Thirty two?

0:19

You're thirty two? Okay, So.

0:22

People, I wondered if people that

0:24

are listening in my fans will be like, wait, why would

0:27

you have that guy on? You know, like I'm about

0:29

female empowerment and a lot

0:31

of women listen and moms, and

0:33

you know, I have a responsibility to them. And I

0:36

was thinking as I was walking that

0:38

you have an intriguing story,

0:40

even if it's a cautionary tale for someone who

0:43

could end up being smarter by

0:46

realizing some of the things that you were accused of or

0:48

you know. Also, I believe in like letting someone come

0:50

here and tell their story and not

0:52

like setting up a trap like I've

0:55

been on shows where I walk in and they act like they're

0:57

excited to have me, and then I come on and then they're like,

0:59

just like it's a booby trap and it's just to make me look like,

1:01

look, you know, bad, And

1:03

it's just not either of those things.

1:05

You're a guest.

1:05

I respect that, but I want you to be

1:08

really honest and I want us to really get into this because I think

1:10

it's an interesting story.

1:11

So are you cool with that? Yeah?

1:13

Love, how straight to the point you are. Thanks for having me,

1:15

So let's have some fun and see what we can do.

1:18

Okay. So you're thirty two, are

1:20

you close with your parents?

1:22

Kind of grew up in New Jersey outside the city,

1:24

but lived in New York since I was eighteen, except

1:27

for my four year jail vacation.

1:29

So you had a jail vacation. Where was that all

1:32

over?

1:33

I kept getting in trouble, but mostly outside

1:35

of Detroit, Michigan, so a little bit of

1:37

ways away from New York.

1:38

So were you a kid that was always getting

1:40

in trouble? Like at school we always sort

1:42

of like getting disciplined and sent to the principal.

1:45

Always an entrepreneur. I started my first business

1:47

in seventh grade and had three full time employees

1:50

and got in trouble when one of them sent me

1:52

an invitation for his wedding, and my parents like,

1:54

why is this grown man? Because

1:57

se him get married?

1:58

So I think, go, oh wow, okay,

2:00

And were you did you come from a wealthy

2:02

family, like.

2:04

Middle middle upper class like New Jersey

2:06

suburbs, So.

2:07

Again you didn't want for anything, but like you weren't

2:10

rich, right, Your parent parents weren't driving ferraris.

2:12

Yeah, it wasn't crazy, got it?

2:14

Okay?

2:14

But you went on vacations. You had a decent, normal

2:16

childhood for sure.

2:17

Yeah. So try to obviously push the boundaries a little

2:19

bit myself past.

2:20

That, right. And so where did you go to Did

2:22

you go to college?

2:23

I went to a school called Bucknell for

2:26

almost one year. During

2:28

my freshman year of college, I became one

2:30

of the youngest people to raise venture capital. So

2:33

left college to embark in that

2:35

tech venture journey and moved to New York

2:37

trying to make that happen.

2:39

You were you knew what

2:41

VC was in college? You were reading about

2:43

this stuff. How did you know about all this stuff?

2:45

There was an alumni day and someone

2:47

told me the word venture capital. And I recently

2:50

found my notebook from that day, right right, venture

2:52

capital question mark. So started researching

2:54

it and trying to figure out what it was and trying to understand

2:57

who these people were that would back eighteen

2:59

years like me to kind of give us a chance

3:01

to build her own business on a much larger

3:04

scale than I was doing for my bedroom as a kid.

3:07

It's interesting, and we'll get into it,

3:09

But like I think about I remember being at a party at

3:11

Jordan Balfar's house in the Hampton's years ago, and

3:13

now he's like famous going out and talking, which

3:16

to me is like I'm mixed

3:18

about it, because he is smart and he probably could

3:20

have made money doing anything. But now

3:22

it's this person who's a criminal who's out

3:25

there talking and like speaking and getting

3:27

you know, news events, I mean news shows.

3:29

And so I think about the fact that it sounds

3:31

like you were smart, you were motivated,

3:33

You're an entrepreneur. You could have like gone

3:36

one way, and it sounds like you want another.

3:38

So your parents pay for your college for a year,

3:40

and then you're out, and then what are you doing then?

3:43

And where are you living and how are you supporting yourself?

3:45

So raised money for this, tried

3:47

to build a social networking website for my college

3:49

drum Room. Raised money for this social

3:52

networking app, and moved to New York

3:54

City and was eighteen nineteen. My

3:56

friends were now sophomores in college, kind

3:58

of all alone, and I,

4:00

you know, snuck into a nightclub one night and saw

4:03

you there. I thought I was the coolest person in the world, and obviously

4:05

say hi, because it's in the same time there.

4:08

Yeah,

4:10

it was PhD when it first opened at

4:12

the Dream Hotel. So funny,

4:14

how yeah fast So I.

4:16

Remember going there and I've only ever been there once.

4:18

That was the one up on the roof.

4:20

Yeah.

4:20

I think it was like New Year's the year when you were with your then

4:22

husband at the time, and being a nineteen year old

4:24

and all my friends were in college.

4:25

I thought I was the man, because that's

4:28

really weird.

4:28

I feel like I almost remember that. It was like towards

4:31

the back and you were with your friends. There

4:33

was a group of guys there, and I looked

4:35

good that night. I know it sounds crazy, I

4:37

would looked great.

4:39

I think I looked good that okay, So wow,

4:41

okay.

4:42

Crazy time flies to fast, right,

4:44

it's insane life.

4:45

Insurance, it's insane. You were nineteen,

4:47

Did you have money? Were you making money

4:50

then?

4:50

A little bit? You know, I had a small salary.

4:52

I was taking from my company and did a lot

4:55

of like you know, fun consulting work and

4:57

was a hustler, right, and I was nineteen with no responsibilities.

5:00

So I think it's easier when you're a kid

5:02

with no family, no spouse, no children to

5:04

kind of have fun and make your own path.

5:07

But did you feel like you were finagling

5:09

a little bit, like in that time when you were coming

5:11

up, like moving a little too fast and

5:13

loose, or you were too young and stupid to know.

5:16

I think I was just hanging out with people who

5:18

are much older than me. Most of my friends were

5:20

in school, and I started hanging

5:22

out with my investors who are fifty sixty

5:24

year old, and like they're, you know, peers.

5:27

So I was the young guy, almost.

5:29

Like the toy in the room where you know, they would take me to the

5:31

gallows with the dinners and I'd be this like, you know, fun,

5:33

weird nineteen year old who you know, could provide

5:35

conversations for ten minutes at the meals. So it's kind

5:37

of this weird world where I was almost

5:40

subducted from my childhood

5:42

or my late childhood years and put

5:44

into like New York society because I was

5:46

like weird kid with a tech startup.

5:48

So it was kind of like, do you think you were hot shit? Did

5:50

you think you were hot shit? Did you have a fancy car? Were you

5:52

like getting girls? Were you getting bottles? Did you think you

5:54

were like a hot stepper?

5:55

I think it took a couple of years. I definitely thought I was

5:57

lame for a couple of years. And by the time I was

6:00

on one or twenty two and you know, had some

6:02

revenue coming in and making some money, I've definitely

6:05

embraced that lifestyle that I probably

6:07

wasn't ready for.

6:08

And they all liked the marketing of making

6:10

you this young wonder kin, like you're just like

6:12

small star athlete that they all know, Like

6:14

they like, this kid's going to be that a billionaire.

6:17

Is that the type of thing that was going on with the older guys.

6:19

Yeah, And I felt like I had to grow into it right and

6:21

like in the beginning I was awkward and didn't really know

6:23

how to talk or hold conversation, and a couple of years

6:25

later embrace that to try

6:27

to grow into it and like almost fill those shoes.

6:30

Do you speak to any of those people now? Uh?

6:32

Some yes?

6:33

And I think, like skipping ahead, I went

6:35

to jail for wire fraud, which basically

6:38

was lying to a aud these investors to raise

6:40

money for the fire festival.

6:41

Yeah, so some of those guys with a fire

6:43

festival investors.

6:45

Correct, It's like that trust that I violated.

6:47

I think was the worst part of all of it. I know we'll get

6:49

there, but that's what kind of hurts me the most.

6:50

Known and so you actually cared about

6:52

these people.

6:53

They were like and and some of

6:55

them do speak to you, they have a soft spot

6:57

for you.

6:58

Yeah, it's very like, very black and white. Some are

7:00

like, fuck off, and some are like, we totally get it and

7:02

what you did was wrong, but we'll give you another chance. So

7:04

it's it's kind of there's no

7:06

one, no one's in the middle. It's very

7:09

it's very visceral.

7:10

Okay, And I'm sure some of them

7:12

were hurt. They feel stupid, they're embarrassed for

7:14

sure. What about your parents? What would they think about you hanging

7:16

with all these older people, And did they

7:18

think you were over your skis?

7:20

Did they say slow down?

7:22

It's too much like the way the movie Wall

7:24

Street, Charlie Sheen's father, Martin,

7:26

yeah, he's Martin Sheen, is like, it's

7:29

too much fast and loose over here.

7:31

For sure, you're going too fast. You're taking

7:33

too many risks, whether that's adrenaline

7:36

seeking, physical risks, or financial risks.

7:38

And they like, go to college, you go to school. So

7:40

I think they just took the complete opposite approach, where

7:43

it's like, hey, totally pull back, and obviously

7:45

that kind of propelled me to keep going faster

7:47

and trying to fight as much rope as I could.

7:50

And in watching the documentary, which was

7:52

years ago, I remember, like I'm

7:54

you seemed like you thought you were the shit,

7:57

and you are seemed more humbled now,

7:59

like you definitely have had your ass handed to you

8:01

for sure.

8:02

Right, I don't know, never have

8:04

seen the docks. I think it

8:06

all just went so fast. The Fire

8:09

Festival was literally a four month period

8:11

of announcing this trailer video

8:13

with the viral social campaign to the actual date

8:15

of the festival. So I definitely think it's

8:18

fair to say I was actually like the total asshole for those

8:20

four months. But in reality,

8:22

it was like this whirlwind of this craziness

8:24

and such a period of time that defined my life.

8:26

Right, it's kind of wild that defines that's your

8:29

identity now, right, I.

8:30

Maybe four months as a twenty four year old, which is

8:32

crazy.

8:33

So you were twenty four years old, And

8:36

for those of you who are too

8:38

young to remember or live under our rock,

8:42

fire Festival was from my perspective because

8:44

I'm just going to talk about, like from the outside and something you were

8:46

just seeing through social media, all these famous

8:48

people. The Kylie Jenner is the models. Everyone

8:50

going to this island excited. It's

8:53

the Fomo. It's the Tart Dubai

8:55

trip times ten million, It's Coachella,

8:57

It's all that Revolve festival. It's

9:00

all that stuff of like douchey people

9:03

bragging Fomo better

9:05

than like it's supposed to be aspirational.

9:07

Look at my outfits, like you

9:09

know, we're so fabulous and you're not.

9:11

We're on a boat, we're rich.

9:12

All that shit piled into one And I read

9:15

the stat today that it

9:17

was more viral

9:19

than Coachella with more impressions,

9:21

And then you said, then it said, like and

9:23

there's no third is like way dropped

9:25

down?

9:26

Is that? What?

9:26

Is that accurate?

9:27

Yeah, it's been the most talked about festival in the

9:29

world since twenty sixteen and it's never

9:31

happened, which is kind of wild, right, Like literally

9:34

the most talked about Thesic festival ever without it ever taking

9:36

place.

9:37

And you were partners with jaw Rule and it fucked

9:39

him up too.

9:40

We were partners. Yes, I was the only

9:42

one he went to jail so I think I was the only

9:44

one.

9:45

Yeah, But so how did you? But he was probably

9:47

scared he was going to jail.

9:49

I don't know. I think he had gone to jail

9:51

already, so he knew what he had to do, I think

9:53

at that point.

9:55

And were you close with him?

9:56

Yeah? We were very close friends for maybe

9:59

three or four year years prior to Fire and

10:01

Fire Festival, and always knew we'd

10:03

work together in some capacity and that was the that

10:05

was the attempt.

10:06

So how did you meet him?

10:08

I had a company called Magnesis

10:10

prior to Fire, and I basically built

10:13

a events company on top of your

10:15

credit card. So I bought this black strip

10:17

of metal from China and would copy

10:19

people's like shitty Chase debit cards

10:21

onto this black hunk of metal and

10:23

then built different benefits you would get

10:25

on top of the card. And one of the benefits

10:27

was a lot of these small private concerts we did throughout

10:30

New York and he was one of the two dozen

10:32

artists that we booked for these concerts. Just kind of connected

10:34

through that and became friends.

10:35

Meaning it was just like a branding vehicle. You were

10:37

like putting the blush in a better compact

10:40

and adding some marketing assets

10:42

too, Is that what you're saying exactly?

10:43

And then we had twenty five twenty five

10:45

year olds running around New York with these cards who

10:48

loved it and then booked a lot of music artists a

10:50

way just like kind of have fun and get back to them.

10:52

And why was it so criticized?

10:53

Because I saw on the dock that it was criticized as

10:55

if like I forgot exactly what

10:57

the criticism was, but it was like that there was some

10:59

fraud there too. There was some perception

11:02

of fraud there too. There was the social

11:04

media network that you made. There's a perception that it was

11:06

just like something else, which to me, a

11:09

lot of things are like something else, So like, is that the

11:11

only problem that people had with that that was like something

11:13

else?

11:14

I think it was amazing for three years, and then

11:16

I got distracted by this new shiny

11:19

thing which is Fire for four months, and then

11:21

you know, once Fire collapsed, it took it all

11:23

down. We sold bang uses for basically

11:25

pennies after the Fire festival because I was

11:28

the brand and my ability to

11:30

create these experiences were destroyed

11:32

at that point. But I think it was more about it.

11:34

It was I'm saying. No, I'm saying, wasn't there something before? You said

11:36

there was a social network? So someone

11:38

criticized that as being like something else. Was there any

11:41

other legal problem with that? Was there any investigation

11:43

into that social network? That just

11:45

was whatever and it dissolved. It wasn't exactly

11:47

did that business in and of itself have any taint

11:50

to it?

11:50

It was just the taint was me, and like you know, I

11:53

was ruined, right, and so if oh that's Billy's product,

11:56

therefore it must be terrible.

11:57

So I think that was kind of right.

11:58

But no one but so whatever they were digging up,

12:00

they were just digging up whatever they could on.

12:02

Yeah, there was no criminal auity or like the legal

12:04

aspect of the business. It was a great business that I

12:06

didn't know how to see through because I got distracted

12:08

by like what's next in this bigger opportunity?

12:10

And that was my That was my fault and like my issue.

12:13

But in order to believe you, I want to know that you

12:15

you you admit that there was criminal

12:17

aspect of Firefest completely.

12:19

It was totally blocked.

12:20

By Okay, so you're acknowledging because I mean

12:22

you you deserved to go to jail in your opinion,

12:25

you acknowledge your wrongdoing

12:28

completely.

12:29

I met a lot of very good people in jail, but I didn't

12:31

meet one person who deserve to be there in some capacity.

12:34

So I think everybody, like I think it's

12:36

very rare they're going to find a random person and prosecute

12:38

them. I think you have done something wrong, and you

12:40

make it over prosecuted or under prosecuted. But I

12:42

was certainly guilty and deserve to go.

12:44

To jail fifty shades of how much

12:46

there's a disparity and someone belongs to be there for

12:48

longer.

12:49

It's not I got a longer set.

12:50

But okay, you did something wrong, you get there.

12:52

Yeah, yeah, exactly, you were in the mix and something's

12:54

wrong. Okay.

13:08

Do you feel that you were lucky with your

13:10

sentence or your sentence was longer or was

13:12

exactly what it should be based on you

13:14

know, other people, or what's right

13:16

or what you've heard read whatever.

13:18

The answer literally changed by the day I

13:20

started in the jail in New York, where there were a lot of other

13:22

financial crime people, and there

13:25

I felt like my sentence was super long because I would

13:27

meet guys who had dollar figures or victim amounts

13:29

that were ten times mine who had less time. And

13:32

then I got in trouble in prison a couple of times

13:34

and was transferred further west, first

13:36

to Ohio and then to Detroit, where I met

13:38

people who had, you know, a couple of dollars and twenty

13:41

year sentences, So I kind of felt lucky. So I think it really

13:43

depends on where you are. But in the

13:45

day, I think my six year sentence was fair.

13:47

That's probably right.

13:48

Did you have terrifying

13:50

experiences in there?

13:52

I did ten months in solitary confinement, seven

13:55

of it which was for trying to do a podcast

13:58

from the prison payphone, So I

14:00

think that really sucked. And like the biggest takeaway

14:02

from that is I'm not a conspiracy theorist,

14:05

but knowing that there was someone who had that power

14:07

to snap their fingers and literally put me into

14:09

a concrete box for seven months was wild.

14:12

Wait a minute, you were in solitary

14:14

confine? What you said ten seven or ten.

14:16

Ten months total? I did one seventh month

14:19

stint just for the podcast, Like, as punishment

14:21

for that.

14:22

What is solitary confinement?

14:24

Like?

14:24

Does it? Hell?

14:25

It's bad? You're supposed to be able

14:27

to go outside for one hour a day, but it

14:29

was during COVID, so ironically

14:31

that was an excuse where I couldn't leave. So I

14:33

was literally in a cage for seven months, and that was

14:36

really really crazy.

14:38

Wait a minute, You eat in there, you do everything

14:40

in there, you can you read it.

14:43

They put your food through like a doggy tray.

14:45

So there's no like contact with anybody.

14:47

And you're allowed to have two books a week, which sounds

14:49

like a lot, but when you have nothing else to do, it's it's

14:51

you know, you do that in a day and a half or two days,

14:54

even if you're like an average reader. So a

14:56

lot of push ups, a lot of meditating, and

14:59

a lot of longing for relationships like you

15:01

know, physical, emotional, just wanted

15:03

to be around people. I think it's the biggest thing

15:05

you start creating after a couple of weeks.

15:07

Did it fuck with your head big time? Did it mess

15:10

you? Like?

15:10

Are you very fucked up from being in solitary

15:13

confinement for that period of time like we see in the movies.

15:15

That sounds yeah.

15:16

I think like nightmares literally maybe

15:18

stopped two months ago, so it it took a few years

15:20

afterwards to kind of go away. And

15:22

once again, I think the biggest fear was knowing

15:24

that like, oh wow, there was some prison

15:26

official who literally could say, okay, I want

15:29

Billy, you know in here for seven months and it

15:31

happened, and that was just crazy for me.

15:32

Are you in therapy?

15:35

I have been, Yes.

15:36

What did your parents, whether you have a good

15:39

relationship with them or not. You have some relationship

15:41

with your siblings.

15:43

Younger sister thirties, slives in the city.

15:45

Are you close with her? Not really?

15:47

I think it's hard hard for her. She was twenty

15:50

one or twenty two when it all happens, So I think, like you know,

15:52

as a young woman in New York, it's kind of tough when

15:54

your brothers it's me.

15:56

At that point, she was in the demo.

15:57

She was in that yeah, Target demo exactly.

16:00

And what about your mom, Like,

16:02

what was your mom saying when you

16:04

were going into solitary confinement?

16:06

Was she hysterical?

16:07

I think the hardest part for the family is

16:09

not known, at least when you're going through it, like you

16:12

have real time updates, like it's you, it's happening.

16:14

You know what's happening every second when your

16:16

family's not there, like they might hear oh in

16:18

the news or from a letter, like you're in solidary confinement,

16:21

but what does that mean? Like what's actually happening?

16:23

So it's like not knowing made them think the worst.

16:25

I think that was the most messed up part

16:27

and hardest to kind of come to terms with.

16:29

So you traumatize your entire family.

16:31

Like for yeah, it's terrible. Yeah,

16:34

parents, for sure.

16:35

Have you cost them a lot of money?

16:39

Some I think the emotional damage

16:41

is probably the worst part of it. Like you know, money

16:43

can always be solved in some capacity, and

16:45

like I will do that through the rest of my life.

16:47

I think the emotional damage

16:49

to trust, like that's where really hurts the most.

16:52

Are you spending the rest of your life trying

16:54

to repair the emotional trust too?

16:56

Absolutely? I think like my dream is to be able

16:58

to go and shake the hands people that I wronged and where

17:01

they're like, okay, like we got paid back, but that's

17:03

one thing more importantly, like we can trust you now,

17:05

and not saying they're going to be investors or

17:07

business partners again, more of that like human level

17:09

where hey, like I trust you as a person. I think

17:11

that's kind of I crave that and that

17:14

would make me feel fulfilled.

17:15

So why is someone from jail suing

17:18

you for six hundred thousand dollars?

17:20

Yeah, So ironically, my crime

17:22

was far from the worst of people in

17:24

prison, and as I was transferred

17:26

to higher level prisons and worse prisons,

17:29

you know, I was essentially it wasn't that bad

17:31

day to day, but I was a target for people with hainous

17:33

crimes. So there

17:35

was someone who ended up being a child predator

17:37

who basically met

17:40

me when I was first released to a half way house from

17:42

jail, started showering me with gifts and

17:44

found out when I was still in that halfway house that he was

17:46

a child predator and basically severed ties

17:48

with him. And you know, that's that story. So

17:51

it was a hard transition from like leaving jail.

17:53

Oh wait, what does it have to do with the six hundred thousand

17:55

I'm saying, why would someone sue you? What was

17:57

the six hundred thousand dollar claim about? And where

18:00

is that now?

18:01

Yeah, he was trying to give me gifts.

18:02

You admit that firefest was completely illegal

18:04

and you did criminals to hear you're saying you did not do

18:07

anything.

18:07

You're saying this is wrong.

18:08

Yeah, someone like trying to pull me down a

18:10

little bit to bring themselves up, whether it's you know, fifteen

18:12

seconds of press or whatever it may be.

18:14

Okay, Okay, that's hard.

18:16

Yeah, Okay, I'm gonna choose to believe you because I'm you're

18:18

being accountable about some things.

18:19

Like I'm trying to wade through this, but it's put you're pretty

18:22

clear.

18:22

Okay, So you were in

18:24

jail and you were still fucking around trying

18:26

to make money, trying to do something like what

18:29

So what is that is that?

18:30

Like you still hadn't learned your lesson? Like what was

18:32

that about?

18:32

Like why didn't you just like put your head down. I'm

18:35

gonna fucking pay attention, do what I'm told,

18:37

listen, and get the fuck out of here.

18:39

Oh maybe I need you as my mom my mom at

18:41

that point, but it's like I didn't know

18:43

how to sit down and shut up basically, and

18:46

like it might not have broken the rules

18:48

per se with the podcast, but it was against like the

18:50

theme with the rules, right, the point of jail is to you're

18:52

in time out. It's not to just provide a different

18:54

platform for you to continue your business. And I

18:56

didn't get that, and it took time, and I kept

18:58

thinking, oh, it's like it's on me. I can prove that

19:01

I'm not as bad as it might have been portrayed.

19:03

But that was beyond the point. Like the point was I

19:05

was wrong, I was guilty, and because

19:08

of that it is now time to you know, be

19:10

quiet. So it took a minute to get

19:12

there.

19:12

Ellen Degenerous once said to me, you will keep making

19:15

the mistake until you learn the lesson,

19:17

like in relationships and in your case, in your

19:20

your antics and your

19:22

shortcuts. And Lauren Michaels

19:24

once said to me, you have to make an exit to make an entrance,

19:27

meaning like it wasn't even

19:29

about me, he was talking about one of the people on Saturday

19:31

Night Live. But I take that as like your

19:33

day will come to be able to like so

19:36

sit down, shut up, and then like later you

19:38

know, I love that, not that it's not

19:40

that it's going to be good for you. I mean, it's not great for you

19:42

by any means, and you don't deserve it to be. But I

19:45

but I you know, I want to talk through

19:47

it, okay, So.

19:48

I love that the day will come and it's

19:50

like you have to go through the punished metas there first

19:52

before you have that chance, And I couldn't couldn't

19:54

grasp that, So I agree, right, awesome.

19:57

You've thought about people who have done

19:59

really bad things, have you like looked into

20:01

those more closer than others?

20:03

Absolutely? And I think it's like it's yeah,

20:05

it's it's funny for my perspective to be like, you

20:07

know, why is he or she doing that?

20:08

Or like, oh, that's so amazing what they did do.

20:10

So yeah, it's it's.

20:11

Cool to see who do you look at? Who are you looking at?

20:13

Thinking like they fucked up but like eventually

20:15

were able to like redeem themselves.

20:18

Who are those people? Besides Michael Vick?

20:20

I think Ian Schrager had a really cool comebackstory

20:22

and obviously now is an incredible hotel brand and hotel

20:24

line. So someone who took it there able

20:27

to be good at find a good partner to kind of

20:29

help them and you know, provide parameters

20:31

and be successful. That's pretty cool.

20:32

You mean because he went to jail because what was going on with

20:35

Studio fifty four?

20:36

Yeah, and like came back and said, Okay, I'm great at

20:38

this like two or three things, and I need help in these other areas

20:40

and found a great partner and you know, built

20:42

a successful brand for himself.

20:44

So interesting.

20:45

I would I had him on this podcast, and I would never

20:48

have thought of that because I forgot to

20:50

the point of marketing and branding.

20:51

I forgot.

20:52

And I know that story because I know I

20:55

know somebody who did all the lighting and the wiring for Studio

20:58

fifty four. Do

21:00

you think that Ian Schrager's crimes were

21:04

on par with yours? Or like worse or

21:06

better or just similar? Is Jordan Belfire the Wolf

21:08

of All Street? Is it on par the

21:10

crimes? Is it similar?

21:12

Yeah?

21:12

I think my crime is worse and Ian triggers. Uh.

21:15

Yeah. I think I probably caused

21:18

more emotional damage than he did to

21:20

people, So I think, like that's worse.

21:21

Oh okay, his is like just general like their

21:23

taste skimming, but it's not like hurting direct

21:26

people.

21:27

Yes, I think what I did is worse than him. But he's still,

21:29

you know, found a way where someone like you would even forget

21:31

because he's become you know, respectful person,

21:33

a member of society. So I think that's that's motivating.

21:36

But about Jordan, I don't know.

21:40

I don't know him personally, so I think this story is like

21:42

it's hard to understand, like what's real and what isn't real, right,

21:44

because everything is just sensationalized so much

21:46

so.

21:46

And marketing has been a movie and all that stuff.

21:49

Yees, So I don't really know like who he heard or didn't

21:51

hurt and maybe it's bad, maybe it's not so bad.

21:53

It's it's kind of hard to hard to say without knowing the details.

21:56

Got it, Okay,

22:09

So let's get into firefest.

22:10

All right? So you're a hotshot.

22:12

You got this credit card, you've got this like

22:15

buzz, and you're running around the city going to

22:17

clubs. And I think and that you had a girlfriend

22:19

that was on the road with you, right like doing this?

22:21

No, yeah, a little bit, Yeah to speak to her anymore?

22:25

Have a new one?

22:25

Now? Who I met after fire?

22:27

But you met a girl after

22:29

fire before prison?

22:30

Correct? Yes?

22:31

And she stayed with you for

22:33

some time.

22:34

We broke up for a little bit and you know, an how we're back

22:36

together. So she she's tough?

22:38

Interesting does she? Does

22:40

she trust you?

22:42

I hope? So? So I think she

22:44

she was not there for the for the fun

22:46

time. So that was kind of ironic, right, like didn't

22:48

get to experience the quick rise.

22:50

She's only been there for the ship, only only

22:52

been.

22:53

There for the ship, So I think I owe it to make

22:55

things work.

22:56

What kind of person is she like? What is she like? Conservative

22:58

is she like? What is she like? What does she do

23:00

for a living in marketing?

23:01

I don't have to like get into her fully, but I'm just curious

23:03

what kind of woman you're in a relationship

23:05

with.

23:06

Super like strong willed, strong personality.

23:08

Yeah, she's far and moved here when she

23:10

was fifteen or sixteen, which is kind of like tough.

23:13

And what was her family? Said? You have you met a family?

23:15

I have. It's

23:17

it's weird because I think people who kind of met me after

23:20

didn't didn't get to experience like

23:23

the good and the bad that came with the

23:25

chaos of fire and Fire Festival. So

23:28

I think to them, it's like here's a character,

23:30

and like here's like you know, current Billy for

23:32

all of us good and all is bad. So I think for them it's kind

23:34

of hard to put it all together and like understand

23:37

what's what okay?

23:38

So you are doing this

23:40

credit card, you're a hot shot, you have a girlfriend,

23:43

walk me through what goes on? So now you go

23:46

to some of these investors that you

23:48

were doing VC with and you've

23:50

talken a jar rule, you brought it, you packaged

23:52

it with Jar roles, so people wanted to invest because you had him

23:54

already right like stuff like that.

23:56

Yes, like it was kind of crazy. We had this townhouse

23:58

in the West Village where all of our cardholders could

24:00

come. It was almost like a so house,

24:02

you know, twelve years ago for young people in Manhattan.

24:05

And this guy walked in who was a

24:07

programmer at Google and a self taught

24:10

pilot, and he said, I just bought a plane.

24:12

I want a flyabillity to the Bahamas. So you

24:14

know, of course, she said, he asked one of this guy's

24:17

plane. We ran out of gas and landed

24:19

on this remote island in this small

24:21

chain of the Bahamas, and turned

24:23

out the island had crazy history as like a

24:26

Blackbeard and a Pablo Escobars, like you

24:28

know, teams, drug running island and whatever.

24:30

Like now we were there and I just totally

24:32

fell in love with this place. I fell in love with the ocean.

24:34

I fell in love with literally the four people who actually

24:36

lived there. And I kept bringing my

24:39

friends and customers and music talent

24:41

all to this island, and these trips kept growing and

24:43

growing.

24:44

Who was paying for the trips to go to the island.

24:46

Initially we were selling spots to our Magnesis

24:49

cardholders, so they would basically pay a fee

24:51

and we'd take them from Teeterborough and these like small

24:53

crappy nineteen sixties planes and fly to

24:55

the island for the weekend.

24:57

Where would they stay.

24:58

We would there were a couple of small houses or

25:00

villas there. We would get a boat and like we kind of like

25:03

it started with four people and they became two hundred

25:05

people trips. And on one of these trips

25:07

I had a childhood friend who said, you should totally

25:09

do a music festival here for all

25:12

of your Magnesist cardholders.

25:13

So what does that friend say? Now?

25:16

I know right, Like it's funny because

25:18

like twenty people have since said, oh, it's my idea. But it

25:20

was like, really, this guy who wasn't involved at all, who

25:22

had the idea for fire and.

25:23

Fire festival And is he still your friend?

25:25

Haven't spoken to him? Actually? No? Okay,

25:28

but that's where it started.

25:29

So are you are you ripping

25:31

these two hundred people off while this is happening

25:34

or no, this is just normal like you're making some

25:36

money.

25:36

No, these trips are great and like they're awesome.

25:38

And what started with your average

25:41

twenty two year old became big music

25:43

artists, comedians, some of the biggest models in the world.

25:45

And we started filming some of these trips and

25:48

bits.

25:48

Who was paying for this? Your business is paying for it.

25:50

You're making so much money that you're just like you're

25:53

spending this or who's paying for all this stuff?

25:54

Initially the customers are paying for it themselves? Then

25:57

eventually he.

25:57

Was paying for the filming it.

25:59

Now our business are going to pay for the trips are getting

26:01

big, we have brand sponsors, we're making more money,

26:03

Like you know, things are going well now that business

26:05

is paying for it. At that point where it's like, all

26:07

right, let's do a festival. Now it's time to raise

26:09

some money. Like we've proved we can have you

26:11

know, three or four days where you escape reality

26:14

in New York City, you're diving

26:16

for your own fish or cooking in the beach, and all these people

26:18

who might not spend time together at home

26:20

are now becoming great friends or they're starting companies

26:22

together. And wanted to kind of like formulate

26:25

and package these experiences and sell

26:27

it as a music festival?

26:29

You raise how much money with how many people.

26:32

Ended up raising around like twenty seven or

26:34

twenty eight million for Fire Festival over this

26:36

four month period from

26:39

maybe three or four dozen investors.

26:41

So at the number that's the number of

26:43

what you owe back is twenty seven million plus seven

26:45

million in taxes, so you right correct,

26:48

exactly thirty four million

26:50

in the hole. And all

26:53

these people invested, And what went

26:56

sideways? And how fast did it go sideways?

26:58

And how much did you know? And what we you trying to do?

27:00

And how did you get yourself in deeper? And how did

27:02

you get yourself to jail?

27:03

Like?

27:04

What now goes on? So you're there? What

27:06

goes on?

27:06

There are two big issues? So the first thing is that even

27:09

if Fire Festival was perfect, it

27:11

was as luxurious adventurous

27:13

as we advertised, I still would have gone to jail because

27:16

I lied to the investors to try to get more

27:18

money, Like so that was the crime. The crime was like

27:20

a.

27:20

Mini made off crime, Like you're saying, let me get more

27:23

so I can, and then I'm going to end up paying them back. You thought

27:25

you had you could go, you could handle it.

27:26

Yeah, I just I lied and said, hey, we are doing

27:29

better than we are. I have more money than I actually

27:31

have, or the company is more money that actually has and just

27:33

like gave very basic, almost

27:35

like childlike exaggerations to

27:38

help raise money, which actually think hurt me.

27:40

But it's a separate story. And then the second

27:42

part was, wait, what do you mean that's a separate

27:44

start? What do you mean say that go

27:46

through that? Let's just do it.

27:47

I think people were investing in me initially

27:50

because they had worked with me for five or six years.

27:53

They've seen all the little failures, they

27:55

had seen some of the little wins, and they

27:57

believe that if Fire was done right, it would

27:59

have been bigger than the previous acts, which

28:01

shit right, we all agree with. So they

28:04

were investing because of that, and almost despite

28:07

my exaggerations for how well Fire

28:09

was doing. I think when it got to a certain

28:11

point where we needed even more money, I probably

28:14

scared away people who would have actually invested

28:16

more because it was too good to be true. So

28:19

ironically, the lying probably pushed away

28:21

a lot more capital and probably people who

28:23

could have helped make it a reality, because like

28:25

it was obvious.

28:25

You're saying, you could have said I'm in a little bit of trouble.

28:28

We can do this, but this is what's going

28:30

on, and let me get some advisors and crowdsource

28:32

some information so you can help me get I'm

28:34

fucked right now and I need help.

28:36

I was so scared to show Kings in the Armor,

28:38

where in the reality was like, these people already trusted

28:40

me. I'd built that trust.

28:41

It's almost endearing for people to hear what's

28:44

wrong. So I was part.

28:45

I was one of the people to start the model. Now

28:47

I was the person to really start the model

28:49

for monetizing reality television, like before the Kardashians,

28:52

and we had the same agent who ended up

28:55

using my model.

28:57

For them later.

28:58

Like in other words, I was util the Housewives

29:00

to promote Skinny Girl, and I was using

29:03

this vehicle that no one else was using in that way. They were

29:05

using it to show how rich they were and buying

29:07

diamonds, and I was using it because

29:09

I was poor as this vehicle.

29:12

So this agent then ended up bringing this model

29:14

over to the Kardashians, who were bigger,

29:16

and they weren't bigger yet, but they were still bigger, and

29:19

like was doing deals through the shows

29:21

for them, a series deal, that ended up failing, Like

29:23

he kind of used a quick trim he put

29:25

into their show. He was using my model. But

29:28

one of the things I experienced, and we were great

29:30

and we made money together, is that he would always

29:33

like act like he knew everything. And

29:36

I was freaked out by that because a couple of times

29:38

we got really jammed up in things that I ended

29:40

up having.

29:40

To get us out of.

29:41

Like it was a situation where I did a brand

29:44

deal with a partner

29:46

in Skinny Girl for another category

29:48

and I wasn't allowed to use that category,

29:50

meaning he could have said I'm suing

29:52

you because you're not allowed to use this this in

29:55

genes, let's say, or I was shapewear.

29:57

But what I did was went to the original Skinny Girl

29:59

partner and said, listen, I

30:01

have to go to you to ask my lit

30:03

I have to ask my liquor partner you if I can use the

30:05

intellectual property and these other categories. But

30:08

the agent did a deal with them already and made a mistake

30:11

because he didn't know that. So I

30:14

said, I'll figure it out, and I went to the partner

30:16

and asked his permission, and he didn't love it, but he said

30:19

no, problem, like kind of like I'll

30:21

do this for you, and I probably offered to do something

30:23

for him. So I'm sorry for that long story, but it

30:25

just is like, if you get entangled

30:27

and you're doing something that you're over your

30:29

skis, you have to go come, you have to come

30:32

correct. So that's what I think you're talking

30:34

about as a business takeaway for people.

30:36

And most smart people understand that nothing

30:38

is going to be perfect. So if you're saying

30:40

everything is perfect, and they'd been there ten

30:42

times themselves, they're like, this is bullshit, right, it's impossible

30:44

things.

30:45

Are going this well, and I think it scared them away,

30:47

so they started getting nervous.

30:48

They're now in the pyramid scheme, they're not at the top,

30:51

they don't know if they're getting outetting their money out. They're all freaking

30:53

up, but they don't want to give more because they're freaking

30:55

out.

30:56

Yeah, so they would they would give more to try to make

30:58

it work. I think ultimately we were all aligned

31:01

that making the festival itself work

31:03

was the best chance at a financial win, at

31:05

a social win, at a business win. So we

31:08

legitimately tried, literally up until

31:10

the last second, to make Fire Festival happen.

31:13

Then the other side of the problem was just my inability

31:15

to build a city in the middle

31:18

of nowhere in four months. It is having no like real

31:20

estate development experience to that scale.

31:22

So yeah, before you got there,

31:24

you knew the shit was going sideways before

31:27

this, like how long before.

31:28

I didn't know. After

31:30

the first one thousand guests arrived, I

31:32

had basically my number two come up to me and say,

31:35

three people got killed. This wasn't true at

31:37

all. Yeah, no one was even, no one

31:39

was slightly hurt. Like, no, there was zero physical

31:41

issues. But I don't know if he did

31:43

that on purpose or if he's telling the truth, if he's lying,

31:45

But like that kind of snapped me out of it, like, oh shit,

31:47

we are not ready. And we literally turned

31:50

like seven to thirty sevens around in the air and

31:52

got everybody off the island. But up until that last

31:54

second of a thousand guests actually

31:56

arriving, I thought that, you know, fire Festival

31:59

one was going to happen, And.

32:01

So where's the true crime.

32:03

Like we saw the cheese sandwich, We've seen the people

32:05

freaking out.

32:05

There was it was terrible conditions. We know the story.

32:07

I mean, many people if you don't know the story.

32:09

It was this shit show that never happened, with a

32:12

piece of cheese that went viral in a styrofoam

32:14

box and people freaking out and crying,

32:16

but sort of also like a camaraderie between them

32:18

and like it being the worst disaster and getting attention

32:20

for it. But it was a disaster. So

32:23

where was the true crime? You

32:25

owe twenty seven million dollars to how

32:27

many people?

32:28

So I owed twenty seven million dollars to the three

32:30

dozen or so investors. So the

32:33

crime were simply the people who invested

32:35

money into fire festival.

32:38

Because you kept

32:41

because you told them, you lied to them that

32:43

it was going well, and got more money.

32:45

Like what specifically is the crime? Wire

32:47

fraud? What was the crime?

32:49

So like example, okay, you know this sponsor is going

32:51

to pay us five million, but in reality, the sponsor

32:53

is only paying us a million, So like lies like

32:55

that that tried to entice them to make

32:58

the deal look better than actually was, to

33:01

get more money. Yeah, more money exactly.

33:03

The actual the festival itself wasn't

33:05

the crime. I think most people get that wrong,

33:08

Like the people who bought tickets whatever, Like we

33:10

legitimately tried to make that happen. So the

33:12

festival didn't matter how it turned out, how good

33:14

or how bad it was. I committed the same crime

33:16

and would have gone to jail for the same period of time even

33:19

if it was the best festival of all time.

33:21

So okay, so is

33:23

your plan? So how do you make money?

33:26

Now? Do you have any money? How much money?

33:28

Doing all right? Doing a lot of marketing, consulting work,

33:30

so realizing like what I suck

33:32

at and what I'm good at. So helping a lot of venture

33:34

capital back startups for their marketing.

33:36

Who's hiring you? Like? What person is

33:38

hiring you? Like?

33:40

How do you because you already know them, because they're

33:42

intrigued by the story, because they think you're

33:44

smart and you did stupid things, like who's you

33:46

know? You seem sound to me,

33:49

you seem culpable, you seem

33:51

accountable.

33:52

I'm surprised.

33:52

I thought you were going to come on here and be like trying to convince

33:55

me of all the ways it wasn't your fault.

33:56

I'm surprised. I'm glad I had you on. I have

33:59

you on. Thank you. Who's hiring you? And what are

34:01

they paying you? Are they paying you at a massive discount,

34:04

Like, how is this working?

34:06

Ironically, you know, probably doing pretty well income

34:08

wise compared to where he was before, but the you

34:11

know, the debts owed are so high, so such

34:13

a large. I joke that I have like the world's

34:15

worst agent, like in restitution. Right,

34:17

no matter what I make, the agent gets paid

34:19

first, and they take a pretty significant piece

34:21

off the top. So do marketing work.

34:23

And actually a lot of it is former investors

34:26

of mine who have invested in let's say thirty tech

34:28

companies, right, they might recommend to some of their

34:30

investments like this guy's good at marketing and he's

34:32

bad at this, so if you can kind of keep him in this box, he's

34:34

great.

34:35

And that makes sense.

34:36

So you are actually where people are working

34:38

with you again that have worked with you in the past, anyone

34:41

that invested with you.

34:43

Not directly, but the companies they've invested

34:45

in have hired me. So they might call, like the

34:47

founder of a company they invested in, say hey, like, I

34:49

know you guys are having this marketing problem. I think you know,

34:52

Billy can help with this issue, but like, don't let him

34:54

do this. They'll let him do that.

34:55

So how much money are you making a year of approximately

34:57

can you say close range?

35:00

Is it six figures? Is it seven figures?

35:02

Yeah? In that range? Okay, okay,

35:05

I mean it's not amazing good enough.

35:07

But do you go out to a restaurant, you're eating at a sushi

35:09

restaurant, You're wearing decent clothes, and people are looking at you.

35:11

Like what the fuck?

35:13

These people lost their money and you're in a

35:15

restaurant, Like, how do you live your life? If

35:17

you go on a vacation, if you step but on an airplane,

35:19

You're doing something wrong? Because so how does how

35:21

do you live? But yet you are going to hopefully

35:24

pay these people back? How do you live your everyday life?

35:26

If you belong to a gym? How did you pay for the gym membership?

35:28

Like?

35:28

How do you operate? What kind of car do you drive?

35:30

Like? How do you justify all that? Yeah?

35:33

So I think I'm really good at paying restitution.

35:35

So every month, like literally every month, I write

35:37

a check back to the investors that I owe,

35:40

and I'm super transparent about like

35:42

what I made that month. So I'm making this up. Let's say,

35:44

man, one hundred dollars last month, Like all right, here's how I made

35:46

it. And you know here's where it went, and here's how much.

35:48

You guys, I'm just giving them like a newsletter. It's almost

35:50

like it's almost like a newsletter.

35:51

So it is what it is, right if I make ten million dollars

35:54

or ten thousand dollars, like, here's how much they made,

35:56

and like I just disclose it.

35:57

So are you doing this because you're doing this or because

35:59

you would leave required to do it.

36:01

I'm legally required to pay a certain percentage,

36:03

but I'm trying to go above and beyond that and do more.

36:05

So like, for example, we are doing

36:08

Fire Festival two again, and by we, there

36:10

is a third party festival company who's

36:12

in charge and not me, who's actually doing

36:14

fire too, and they're going to give.

36:17

I think it's such a viable brand.

36:19

Yeah, like if like people will come

36:21

to Fire Festival too just to see what happens,

36:23

like it to be part of that cultural moment, right

36:25

exactly if they can do it and it's

36:27

not me and I can like talk some shit and do some

36:30

marketing and like maybe do something wild like

36:32

at the event and like do like ability fire

36:34

thing. That's cool. But they're actually in charge

36:36

and they're giving a percentage of their business

36:39

back to restitution. And that's like in addition to

36:41

whatever I personally have to pay. So trying to find ways

36:43

like that that are a viable way to you.

36:45

Didn't have to do that. In other words, you own

36:47

who owns the intellectual property for Fire? I

36:50

do one percent of it?

36:52

Yeah, so I license it to this festival

36:54

company essentially to do the festival.

36:56

And so are you so very

36:59

interesting? Can you?

37:01

Can you do Fire festival merchandise like

37:03

you own Fire Festival and everything you could do and you're

37:05

going to right.

37:06

Yeah. Another licensing deal we did

37:08

was with the Broadway Musical Company, So a company

37:10

is producing a Fire Broadway musical.

37:12

Similar deal of like what about a movie? What

37:14

about scripted movie?

37:15

I haven't done that yet. Hopefully after

37:18

Fire to is successful, I think the redemption is

37:20

probably a more interesting story. So knock on wood.

37:22

But and will you will you vow

37:25

here on this show that every project

37:27

you ever do with Fire you will give those

37:29

investors back a piece of it?

37:31

Yeah, absolutely, hundred percent. So it's

37:33

in their interest to make Fire to work. There's

37:35

no ask from them. But it's like, you know, cheers

37:38

silently from the sideline, and you know when

37:40

it works, it benefits everybody.

37:42

That will be interesting if one day you

37:44

pay them back with it, you're paying more than

37:47

you took, right, you're going to.

37:48

Make you want to make them money?

37:49

Yeah, absolutely, there's like, right, there's mandatory

37:52

interest at it on top.

37:53

I'm not sure if you exactly interest you.

37:55

Want that, Like you should do a poet like a kid, Okay,

37:57

so you you should have it. Be if you make over fifty

37:59

million and you're gonna give them a kicker, like there's a

38:01

kicker a bonus, you should really do that. And then

38:04

so your honest personal

38:06

goal is that you pay them all back plus

38:08

a bonus, and that you're then able to go

38:10

like personally apologize and

38:13

say I made good, I recognize my

38:15

actions, et cetera, and never'll.

38:17

Take more than one festival. Let's say in five years

38:19

after five fire Festival is a movie, a musical,

38:21

whatever, like it might get there right like that.

38:24

About twenty seven million with the right merch

38:26

brand for fire Festival. Believe it or not, I

38:28

would invest in that.

38:29

Yeah, it's not absurd, it's it's possible.

38:31

No, I don't think it's I don't think I don't think it's

38:33

five years I think if you did, if you had

38:35

a merch brand and the festival and certain things

38:38

like I don't know, like it's

38:40

very like edgy, like BMX stuff,

38:42

skateboard stuff, people that take chances and do

38:44

stupid things like I'm a marketer too.

38:47

But I think lean in, like lean into

38:49

the recklessness of it, like you know fire.

38:51

Represents, Yeah, but don't.

38:52

You shouldn't lean into loving

38:54

it and gloating it. You should be the conservative guy. But it

38:57

works for brands like that type

38:59

of shit, let's ski off of cliffs and stuff

39:01

like that, in my opinion.

39:02

Agreed.

39:03

Well, I have to say, this is an unexpected

39:05

interesting conversation and now I'm invested

39:08

and I want to see what happens.

39:10

Thank you, Yeah, thank you very much.

39:12

Yeah.

39:12

Is there anything else you wanted to say? Talk about market?

39:14

Get out there.

39:15

I think I think it's cool that you know, I my

39:17

start was seeing you to nightclub and thinking I was

39:20

the coolest nineteen year old in the world being in the same

39:22

room and come full circle now many

39:24

years later and many many flaws and mistakes

39:27

later, but it's wild to see this right

39:30

of life and hopefully in thirteen more years we can have a

39:32

different conversation than this one.

39:33

Yeah, and is the right that you want to say to all these people?

39:36

I think too. I'm sure some of my investors

39:38

are listening. Like, I've apologized

39:40

to all you guys and I'm sorry, and uh, we're

39:43

doing our best to pay you guys back and

39:45

hopefully these entities pay off, so we're.

39:48

To actually speak loud of the words.

39:49

Right, Yeah, exactly, and that's it. Takes time,

39:51

takes actions, and apologies are meaningless at

39:53

this point. It's more about showing you guys the results.

39:56

And what about your parents and your

39:58

sister? Yeah, hopefully there listening,

40:00

but I think they might be. So what do you want to say?

40:02

Might be I think recognizing that the people who are

40:04

punished the most were actually family and who

40:07

were punished harder than me, harder than investors,

40:10

harder than attendees or our family. They

40:13

you know, have the emotional attachment and they

40:15

ultimately got a worse punishment that I did.

40:17

So yeah, and you weren't solitary confinement in ten

40:19

years and you still think they got.

40:20

A worse punishment for sure, for sure for ten

40:22

months.

40:22

Sorry, Okay, thank you so much, very

40:25

interesting and thanks be. I can't

40:27

wait till you get the thirty four million back plus plus

40:30

thank you