1:18

Hello , welcome back Live here and

1:21

. Lola is here too . This

1:23

is part two of Burnouts

1:26

. If you have not listened to

1:28

the first part of Burnout , please go back and

1:31

equate yourself with that episode

1:33

. It will give a lot of context and make

1:35

sense as to the second half of

1:37

what we are talking about .

1:39

It was long , so we split the episode

1:41

in two and

1:44

we hope you enjoy it . We're

1:46

still getting used to this while we giggle in it's nervous

1:48

laughter . We're still getting used to these things

1:50

. It's still if you could only see what goes

1:52

on behind the scenes . But

1:54

enjoy the episode , peoples

1:56

, Ciao .

2:14

I mean , I've certainly not met anybody that

2:16

hasn't had

2:18

big success , but

2:21

big success without killing

2:23

themselves I've not met

2:25

. Actually , I have a lot of people in

2:27

my life that have had relatively

2:29

success

2:32

in you know , in , I would say , in a more conventional

2:34

way , and I would say that I have not met any of them that didn't

2:36

have to have enormous personal sacrifice

2:38

and physical sacrifice , whether that

2:40

be stress or if you're an athlete

2:43

, it's the physical stuff , the emotional stuff

2:45

, like it's

2:48

big . One thing that I

2:50

can see that I think is interesting

2:52

and

2:55

I think deep down , I believe this Is

3:00

that you win . I'm

3:05

a long game player in life and you

3:07

are too , and I think that's one of the places

3:09

where we really jam

3:12

, always have Right , and I think you've taught

3:14

me that . You've influenced

3:16

me greatly there , and some of the few

3:18

other people in my life have as well . What

3:20

does it look like to truly play a longer game

3:23

? And a longer game

3:25

Probably looks

3:27

like many

3:29

burnouts along the way , a

3:32

lot more pausing , a lot more redirecting

3:34

, a lot more willing to sort

3:37

of Like

3:40

burn down what you built

3:42

, because it's not true , but

3:44

a lot more willing to take that

3:46

massive fucking risk to

3:50

lose , like , I think , in order to

3:52

win over a long game

3:54

slowly , have

3:57

to always be willing to lose , otherwise

3:59

you're not in the game . The

4:01

game doesn't exist if you're not willing to lose . And

4:04

so I think the smartest people I know

4:06

and I would say smart being they're

4:09

smart with their resources , internally and externally

4:12

. They've really mastered

4:14

life . They're

4:17

not necessarily the ones that have the most on

4:19

paper , but they've mastered Honoring

4:25

themselves internally and externally

4:28

. I

4:31

can think of a few examples of this Very

4:33

few , but I can think of a few where At

4:39

some point they let go of a destination

4:42

and

4:44

they surrendered to what

4:50

life wanted for them . Sounds so fucking

4:53

esoteric , but it's very Michael you know I get

4:55

it . Yeah

4:58

, it's like not

5:00

having , I think , when we kind

5:02

of a bit operating for our wounds I guess is a different

5:04

way to say it we just like we , so

5:07

need to know that we've , we're

5:10

valuable , we figured out how successful

5:12

we like that ego in us , the wound

5:14

. It just leads and drives and drives , and drives

5:16

and drives and drives , and drives , and drives . And I

5:19

believe there's another way . I am really

5:22

making a very conscious effort to

5:24

orient my life from a different place

5:26

and I still have so many of

5:28

these patterns and influences

5:31

and parts , survival

5:33

things in me , the workaholic

5:36

in me , the one

5:38

who's scared and afraid in me . You know

5:40

, I still have all of that program running in

5:43

, the capitalist in me that's like

5:45

sort of willing

5:47

to work or cost us . There's still so

5:49

much going on inside and I do feel

5:51

like I have access to that deeper , that

5:54

deeper thread of no

5:56

really winning in life is about

5:58

fucking surrender , big fat

6:01

surrender To . I

6:07

guess , letting go of the wheel of

6:09

believing that I have will , my will

6:11

, is more powerful than anything else . I don't believe

6:14

that it's .

6:17

No , I think that I love that so much on . So

6:19

what you said , hmm , so

6:25

much is just made up , right . And

6:29

so when I was just listening to you talking , I was thinking

6:31

that

6:35

so feel was the one

6:37

of the words was coming up for me which was like , kind

6:39

of what feels you ? Are you going to be fueled

6:42

by , you

6:44

know , the wounds or the running

6:46

from something trying to prove yourself , hustling

6:49

for your worth , very powerful

6:51

survival drive , right , I

6:55

personally feel like I'm still moving over

6:57

from one to the other , yes

7:00

, moving over for a very long time . Right

7:02

, you know , I

7:05

definitely feel like I'm in a place where I have

7:07

no interest in hustling for my worth . It doesn't

7:10

hold any satisfaction

7:12

or value to me anymore , and

7:15

if I'm recognized by people

7:17

for something I don't give a fine

7:19

fuck about , it

7:22

doesn't mean anything anymore , you know . So that's

7:24

good , that's gone . But

7:27

yes , this internal thing

7:29

, this internal drive , the survival

7:32

drive , is

7:36

still there and will always be there . I don't think that's

7:38

going to go anywhere , because that's something about that is biologic

7:40

as well , I think .

7:42

Yeah , I think . If I think it's , we need it .

7:44

Yeah , yeah , yeah .

7:45

It's not that I'm not here to vilify it . I just don't want

7:47

to drive it Right .

7:51

I want to tell it what to do , because I have . I have moments

7:53

, you know , and I've had times where I'm like , oh

7:56

, feeling really aligned here , like everything's

7:58

feeling in the right place inside , and

8:00

what that looks like is that

8:03

part that you described there

8:05

, the surrendered part , driving

8:08

, leading and giving

8:10

directions to the other parts

8:13

, and there's like a

8:15

relationship that develops between all

8:17

of them as well , which has taken some time , and

8:19

that's what I think it is for me to cultivate , to be

8:21

honest with you , and it's the heart of my work

8:24

at the end of the day , and and it requires constant

8:27

attention that they are like soldiers . You

8:31

know , those parts that are currently driving most people , they're actually

8:34

like soldiers , you know , they're like henchmen , they're like stormtroopers

8:37

, they're like you're meant

8:39

to just get . They're not meant to be , they

8:41

have not got the intelligence to be running the show Right . You know

8:44

they really don't Right

8:47

. In a

8:49

great scheme of things , in

8:51

the things that really matter . And I think there's something about I know I posed

8:53

the question about can you have that

8:55

conventional

8:59

type of success ? And

9:01

maybe that's what the problem is the conventional type

9:03

of success , you know , which

9:06

can know it can never be for everyone . Nothing

9:08

could ever be for everyone anyway . So I

9:11

love what you said there when you said people that I know that

9:13

do it . They have less materiality

9:16

than I do .

9:16

I mean I think that's

9:18

something that really was what I was kind of hearing , and there's

9:21

a different this they're not being sort of driven

9:24

by the greed and the acquisition Right

9:26

.

9:28

Like what are they driven by ? What do they seem driven

9:30

by to you , then ?

9:31

Well , I was thinking about you and I talk a lot about Kim K

9:33

and

9:36

who I like

9:38

and I

9:41

love the connections and you know there's some

9:43

very specific sort of behaviors

9:47

of greed that

9:50

exists in her and she's brilliant

9:52

like brilliant businesswoman , but brilliant

9:54

with her resources , and my observation

9:57

is well , I would say that

10:00

is a woman who there's

10:03

a it's clearly a big override happening

10:05

in order to be that

10:07

productive and do

10:09

that many things all at the same time and

10:12

, you know , live the life that she does . Yeah

10:14

, a classic . I don't know how she does

10:16

it . I don't know how she does it Kind

10:19

of slogan would be attached to someone like Kim K

10:21

for me , but

10:26

there's a kind of I'm trying

10:28

to think of something we touched the other day

10:31

. What

10:33

was your question to me again just now ? Here

10:36

we go .

10:37

What do you ? I know that Remember . You said

10:39

that I can't remember .

10:39

You can't remember . No , I've got it .

10:43

It's something about like what ? What

10:45

are they driven by ?

10:47

Yeah , okay . Well

10:49

, I think this . I also don't like what you said . I don't want to demonise

10:51

and villainise the drive . I think that the

10:54

drive is a great thing . I

10:56

love drive and

10:58

I think that that

11:01

drive they

11:03

have a great relationship with the drive . They

11:05

don't have a great great relationship with the enoughness

11:08

. They don't know where it's

11:10

, they don't know what enough is . It's no sufficiency

11:13

.

11:13

Yes , yes .

11:14

Yes , there's a real insufficient use

11:16

of energy , even though they have so much

11:18

, right , right , I

11:21

think when someone has that much

11:23

and they are like

11:25

, it's like they're literally just overloaded

11:27

with things . I find

11:29

people like that quite hard to connect to in

11:32

a personal way . Yeah , if

11:35

I'm looking to build a relationship with someone , I

11:37

want them to have space in their life

11:39

They've not got

11:41

space internally ?

11:43

There's no , there's no space , exactly

11:45

, yes , apart from Courtney , that's

11:48

the one who , and Courtney , for me , is the one

11:50

. I

11:52

like Courtney a lot . As

11:55

you can see , we are big Kardashian fans . We are

11:58

, we are , we watch the shows , we love the shows

12:00

. Yeah , kind of interesting . And

12:02

Courtney , for me is

12:04

. It's been so interesting

12:07

watching her over the years , right , what's been going

12:09

on with her ? We've seen she's a long game player . Yes

12:12

, much more of a long game player , much

12:15

more kind of . Actually

12:17

, this is what matters to me my family Right

12:20

.

12:20

Much more intentional , much more driven

12:22

by something , as a connection , to a conscious

12:25

connection . So like I am consciously

12:27

connected to the things that I value

12:29

, right , I know myself I've

12:31

spent the time without

12:34

the noise , without the validation

12:36

, without the success to

12:38

actually reflect what matters

12:41

to me . And when I have

12:43

a clear sense of what matters to me , it

12:45

is far easier to say no

12:48

, thank you , right , thank you

12:50

for that , thank you for that .

12:51

I know what's not for me , I know what's

12:53

not for me , and we've watched her bravely , I

12:55

think , because

12:58

it must take , that's very brave Like

13:00

the family way is clearly the

13:03

other way , not her way , and so we've

13:05

watched her like any kind of quote

13:07

, unquote , black sheep of the family kind

13:10

of be ridiculed and

13:12

judged and all this stuff

13:14

where it's like , well , she , she's

13:16

the one for me , in my opinion , who looks

13:18

like they live in a happy life . You

13:20

know , she has got . She

13:23

had a happy or harmonious

13:25

, let's say , co parent in situation

13:27

with her ex she

13:29

had . She seems to be married

13:31

to Travis . They seem to

13:33

really love each other and there's a lot

13:36

of intimacy and closeness there and

13:38

companionship and partnership and

13:40

family and

13:42

joy . She almost just seems like joyful

13:46

and I don't know , she seems to have a lot of she's

13:48

juicy , you know , because really at the end

13:50

of the day remember , juicy is about

13:53

, it's

13:55

about living your own life right , it's about your

13:58

juices . And so for

14:01

me the burnout is a signal

14:03

of like . I think we burn

14:05

out . I think probably the one no scientific

14:07

fucking backing on this at all , this is just my

14:10

bold opinion that we

14:12

burn out when

14:14

we don't live a life that's

14:16

true to ourselves . I think not living

14:19

a life true to ourselves or doing things are

14:21

out of alignment of ourselves is one of the biggest

14:23

indicators to burn in out . And when you're

14:25

neuro spicy you

14:28

do that more than you realize . Because the

14:30

entire world is built

14:32

, or everyone , it's happened to everyone to be fair , but

14:34

the entire world is built in

14:36

a way , constructed

14:38

in a way socially , that does not honor

14:40

our humanity , so

14:43

that in and of itself there's

14:45

nothing that's going to burn us out , man , unless

14:49

, unless we prop ourselves up

14:51

with toxins or we know that

14:53

will catch up

14:55

with you eventually anyway

14:57

.

14:58

So on the 22nd of October 2021

15:00

, so two years ago , I think

15:02

this is when Travis and Courtney were

15:05

just getting together I wrote this piece . I just remembered

15:07

I wrote this piece called the world fucked public

15:09

figure and it says

15:11

in a world of faux sex

15:13

and heavily manicured women in the public eye

15:15

, I really welcome this new era for Courtney Kardashian

15:18

. This is a well fucked woman . You

15:21

can taste the truth of it in your own body watching

15:23

the way her man devours her and how much more open

15:26

she feels , less rigid , controlled

15:28

, more animal , and that the animal

15:30

piece to me is juicy . I

15:32

think , when I'm really

15:34

honoring the fact that I am an animal with

15:36

specific animal needs like food

15:39

, rest , sex , all the things , I

15:41

feel a lot more juicy . Right

15:43

, I have taken care of the foundations

15:45

. Anyway

15:48

, I go on to talk about . You know , I like the conditions

15:51

. They're resourceful , they're masterfuls , they played

15:53

the game of slavery to perfection and , let's

15:55

be honest , they're the best in the world . What they do and

15:57

what I don't love is that is that they

16:00

are the representation of everything that is not embodied

16:02

about the modern sexual woman . They have this

16:04

heavily controlled image and

16:07

it's sort of like this

16:10

perfection , right . And then you have Courtney

16:12

and Travis licking each other's faces

16:15

dripping

16:17

in juice and sex , and the world

16:19

is disgusted . They're like ugh God

16:22

, like they were

16:24

so accustomed to the manufactured

16:27

, controlled sexuality of a woman the

16:29

actual hunger

16:31

and the dripping

16:33

juice on her face , and

16:37

I think that she's given up some of her status

16:40

in the world to have it to

16:42

be it .

16:43

Yeah , I love that .

16:43

Right , it's

16:46

a fence people , but she's like my

16:49

soul is free

16:51

when I don't speak to any of you

16:53

because I'm just being me .

16:56

Absolutely freaking , literally . And also

16:58

, I want to just say that her

17:00

and Travis's way

17:02

of being with each other isn't

17:05

necessarily my personal cup of tea either

17:07

, right , right , but

17:10

that's my shit , right . That

17:13

doesn't become a thing of . Oh

17:15

my God , you know fucking hell , why

17:18

are they licking each other's faces and all that kind of so

17:21

there's something about that that is important , I think , because

17:23

it's not everything has to

17:25

be for us . But you do want

17:27

to check your responses when

17:30

something isn't what you do with

17:32

that discomfort , right ? And

17:35

also , I want to just add further to that I

17:38

love what you wrote there . It's bang on as far as I'm concerned

17:40

, when I watch the Kardashians

17:43

, what I very rarely see , interestingly

17:46

enough , is any sort

17:48

of feminine energy . Very

17:52

little , yeah , and I

17:54

see as hustle , push , drive , push

17:56

, make you know , whether it's in

17:59

their dating world , in their

18:01

life , in their holiday , in their everything

18:03

just feels a bit like not

18:06

, there's

18:08

no receptivity . I don't get receptivity

18:10

. I don't get trust . I don't get you

18:12

know , I get control and cultivation

18:14

constantly . And

18:19

what you see with cool and

18:21

I think also with Kylie actually

18:23

, I see , I see the feminine

18:25

energy in Kylie too is that

18:29

it's

18:32

just like less control . More openness

18:34

, more like

18:37

the energy is more yieldy . Right

18:39

, so I'm not talking yeah , not talking here about

18:41

femininity . I'm not talking about

18:44

what's the what's the freaking like socially

18:46

constructed norms of what is feminine

18:48

and what isn't feminine . They wear lots of dresses , the

18:50

tits rolls out , blah , blah , blah . We've got it

18:53

with curvy . I'm not talking about that

18:56

. That's performing as far as I'm concerned

18:58

. That's performing feminine .

19:00

Yes , I don't know what the language is on tony , but

19:02

different . I'd call it like I'd

19:04

call it that manufactured and .

19:06

Manipulating Because I used

19:08

to do that when I was younger I used to do that

19:10

and that was a straight manipulation , like I'm

19:13

not saying because of how you dress , because it's

19:15

not the outfit , it's just where you're coming

19:17

from . It's almost like wielding

19:19

your woman-ness

19:22

as a weapon .

19:25

I think it takes a lot of work

19:27

to look like that . It's

19:30

a very cultivated

19:33

image . I get this image

19:35

actually in a factory line . It

19:38

is a factory line . Have you seen everyone ? Yeah

19:41

, it's that factory line . Everybody looks the same . It

19:44

has me think of in the context

19:46

of the conversation we've had today , if

19:48

you bring it back to , if

19:55

we're not on the factory line , then

19:59

what are we on ? I see

20:01

, oh yeah , it's all about the factory , it's all

20:03

about the factory . All

20:07

I can see in my head is like you

20:10

know how ? I don't know how much you know , you've

20:12

explored this , but I've had

20:14

this kind of fascination over the years with top soil

20:16

and soil and the way that we've no

20:18

, not at all . So

20:20

you know , for any of my

20:23

soil experts

20:25

out there , I apologize if I've got any facts

20:27

incorrect , but basically a lot of

20:29

the reason we don't have nutritious things

20:33

growing in the ground anymore is because we've destroyed the

20:35

top soil , which is the

20:37

soil at the top that you need

20:41

to truly create fertile conditions

20:43

for things to grow in a nutritious

20:45

manner vegetables , for example and

20:48

the reason we've destroyed the top soil is because soil

20:50

needs years off in order

20:52

to replenish itself . But we don't do that

20:54

. We just , every

20:57

year , farm the same piece of land

20:59

, and so in specific

21:01

kind of agricultural , there's

21:03

a lot of this coming back , these replenishment

21:05

cycles in agriculture . There's a lot of farmers that

21:07

do already do this , but you need an enormous amount

21:09

of land and you need to be willing to

21:11

let the soil rest and have its years

21:14

off , and that's how you create

21:16

this soil , and

21:18

most of the world's soil is

21:21

destroyed because of our inability

21:24

to let it rest . And so when I think of us

21:26

getting off the farming . That's an

21:28

amazing documentary about this

21:30

. Oh , I wrote a post

21:32

on it years ago . I have to see if I can dig it out . We

21:34

could put it in the show notes . It's like absolutely

21:37

gorgeous work being

21:39

done and it is truly the

21:41

true honouring of the feminine

21:44

in nature . And

21:47

if we apply that to us as a human being and a human

21:49

body and we're also women right

21:51

. The

21:54

image I have , which is

21:56

the opposite of the factory line , is

21:59

I'm

22:01

imagining like sort

22:05

of being in the dirt and the mud and I'm

22:08

seeing tears and I'm seeing crying and

22:10

I'm seeing release and I'm seeing letting go

22:12

and I'm seeing space to be

22:15

in the down seasons of life and in the

22:17

nonproductive seasons of life and in the feeling

22:20

stages of life where there is

22:22

nothing to say , there is nothing to do . You are

22:24

lost , you don't know what's next . You do need to

22:26

just be with yourself and

22:29

wait for the system

22:32

to fill back up and then to find

22:35

that inspiration again , find the flow , find

22:38

the next thing . It's a cycle .

22:41

It's a cycle . It's a cycle . Life

22:43

is a cycle with cyclical beings . This

22:47

is so good because it's like it's

22:53

good , and it also makes me feel quite sad , actually

22:55

, what you just shared . I

22:57

didn't know that about soil , I'm not

23:00

surprised I've got to find the documentary .

23:01

You would love it .

23:02

I love it Because

23:04

of the way my brain works . It's

23:06

the same thing . It's

23:10

that whole . How we do one thing is how we do everything . So

23:12

it's this thing like , oh really , oh really

23:14

, liv , I'm so surprised that humans

23:17

can't be fucking bothered to

23:19

wait for the sword to replenish itself because they need

23:21

to produce , produce , produce , produce , make it happen , happen

23:23

constantly , consistently . Consistency

23:25

is key . Consistency is key . Success

23:28

, consistency , consistency is key . I'm like fuck

23:30

off . It's

23:32

so unnatural . It's the same things

23:35

always , everywhere , in every industry

23:37

, the same goddamn things

23:40

, which is why , for me , it's

23:42

getting peeling all

23:44

the way back to the root of the energy

23:48

behind the mindset . Right

23:51

, Like , basically

23:53

, that's how I see it , that's how I see everything , but

23:56

it makes me upset . It makes me really upset

23:58

because we should

24:01

be taking our cues from nature

24:03

. We should be working with

24:05

nature , not dominating

24:08

it , right and extracting

24:10

from it and consuming it , devouring

24:13

fuck , consuming , devouring in

24:15

it right to depletion , and

24:17

so , therefore , I am my

24:19

mad mind . There's a very clear

24:22

link between that

24:24

and us going . I don't know

24:26

how to stop .

24:28

I want to stop . It's so hard for me

24:30

to stop .

24:31

Yeah , it ain't on you , it ain't

24:33

just on you . Like , there's a reason

24:35

for this . There's not just about your failings

24:39

as a human being .

24:42

I'm so excited to just say this one thing

24:44

on the back of what you just said .

24:47

It's just like really good , I hope you remember it .

24:49

I do , I remember it . It's gone off like a light

24:51

bar in my head . So

24:54

I want to talk about consistency

24:56

for a minute , because I think that you

24:59

know something

25:03

I love to talk about a lot is dating , currently

25:06

dating , single , looking for love and

25:09

doing a lot of self-reflection around this

25:11

, like who have I become ? What do I really want ? Now

25:13

I've also taught a lot about this . I've taught a

25:15

lot about our desire and you

25:18

know how we show up as

25:20

women and yada

25:22

yada . So , anyway , early this year I started

25:25

to sort of date more seriously again and

25:27

I had this experience with this man where

25:31

, upon reflection

25:33

, the thing I really appreciate

25:35

about him was

25:38

that he was courageous . And

25:42

why this matters is because

25:45

, at

25:47

any other time , what

25:50

I would have wanted to value is the top thing in

25:53

equality and a man would have been consistency . Oh

25:55

, man has to be consistent . If he's

25:57

not consistent , he's not into you . If

26:00

he's not , this he's not . And I learned

26:02

in this interaction with this really like wonderful man

26:04

. I was like no , it wasn't

26:07

the consistency . I would say that he was probably

26:09

I mean , inconsistently

26:11

consistent , like AKA

26:14

, a human being living his life right

26:16

, and I realized

26:19

that the thing that I needed at the time was

26:21

a courageous man . I

26:24

needed a man that was willing to or

26:28

even even I didn't need it like to experience

26:30

it was have a man who was willing to really

26:32

see me , meet me , play with me

26:35

, go there

26:37

with me , have the conversation with me . It

26:39

really changed something deep for me

26:41

and I

26:43

realized that in the times where

26:45

I have felt a lot of consistency from a man , I'm

26:49

like that actually felt like they were

26:51

sort of at effect of their behavior . They were affecting

26:53

consistency to potentially

26:55

manipulate an outcome . I don't know if they're actually being true

26:58

to who they were and

27:00

I so much more would rather

27:02

have someone who's like , busy with

27:04

their life and honest about where they are , and

27:06

not consistent in the traditional way

27:08

of like . If a man's into you , he'll show up in this way

27:10

and

27:12

courageous and honest . To

27:14

me that's fertile fucking soil .

27:17

It's a real person . That's a real person . It's

27:19

a real fucking person . He's what he is .

27:20

Yes .

27:22

I want a real person .

27:23

You were saying that , like when you were saying about consistency

27:25

. I think in the I've

27:27

certainly been sort of taught this in the personal

27:29

development world that consistency looks

27:31

like it

27:34

feels so fucking vanilla and white and

27:36

like it looks like a train and it's one

27:38

thing after the other and it's like no

27:41

, let's fucking completely

27:43

reframe that word .

27:47

It's not , I'm not , I'm not consistent

27:49

. I've never been consistent .

27:51

Yes neither have I . It's not my nature .

27:52

Right , my nature , my true nature , is flaky

27:55

as fuck , and even

27:57

to say that is a bit judgy , but I don't mind

27:59

that word , that's why I'm saying it , but I know

28:01

that obviously triggers people , whatever .

28:04

Well , how do you define it , cause I think people would like to know .

28:06

Well , I was going to say I'm consistent

28:08

in my inconsistency . Yes

28:11

, that's what I'm consistent . You can rely

28:14

on me for that . So how

28:16

would you define consistency ? Is that kind

28:18

of doing the same thing repeatedly

28:21

or something like that , right ? And I do think

28:23

some people are naturally consistent . So

28:25

the other thing about this is like I like human design

28:27

, like all sorts of things . Right , I like human design

28:30

, which is a whole

28:32

kind of system that's quite

28:34

complex . So look it up if you're interested . But

28:36

what I love about human design is that it

28:40

has so many variables and nuances in

28:42

it in terms of who we are as human beings

28:44

and differences , right . And it has things

28:46

in there that I feel like without judgment

28:48

. So there are things in

28:50

your design , in your chart

28:53

, that are like some

28:56

people are more consistent and some people are

28:58

not consistent . It's not

29:00

better or worse , or right or wrong or

29:02

good or bad , it's just because

29:05

that's what I think the reality is of a lot of things . It's like

29:07

well , some people are like this and some people are like that

29:09

. We don't have to have it as a hierarchy

29:11

, but it's when you now make

29:13

one better than the other and one value , and

29:15

then people subconsciously feel like well , we need to be this

29:17

one because this one's good and that one is

29:19

bad . And also then society

29:21

is set up in a way that I suppose if

29:24

you're inconsistent , that could have some negative

29:26

consequences . Do you know what I mean ? Systemically

29:29

, you might fall through things , but

29:31

and

29:34

I think more importantly than that internalize

29:37

some kind of low self-esteem off the back

29:39

of that right that there's some . You have some

29:41

sort of lower worth because of that . So the minute

29:43

you can call bullshit on all of that , you can get

29:45

on with just being who you are . I

29:47

love that , even when I said that I'm like and it's

29:50

as simple as that . It's

29:56

not as simple as that , but that's

29:58

the gist of it . But , oh

30:02

my God , how many years Do you know , how much

30:04

effort , do you know , how much money I've spent

30:06

actually , furthermore , having

30:09

to break down , oh

30:13

my God , so deeply entrenched

30:16

bodily patterns in my own

30:18

body of trying to live

30:21

in a way that is nothing to do

30:23

with me . Nothing to do with me

30:25

. Like , I don't need that level

30:27

of consistency Now , if I find it quite pressurized

30:30

and obligatio , it's

30:32

just not my thing . Again , if

30:35

we unhook from some of these

30:37

things , I'll question them first , I suppose then unhook

30:39

, then we can get about knowing what actually does matter for

30:41

us and live in accordance to that right . Some

30:44

people are consistent , like I said , and good for them . More

30:46

power to them , because that's quite

30:49

useful . There are certain I

30:51

don't know roles . I'm just thinking about work . If you

30:53

have a team , there's gonna be certain roles within the team that you would

30:55

want someone to be . You would want your

30:57

consistent people to be on right . So

31:01

consistent

31:05

means acting or

31:07

done in the same way over time

31:09

, especially so

31:11

as to be fair or accurate , not

31:15

containing any logical contradictions

31:18

. I'm literally not wide that way . I'm

31:21

literally not wide that way . I

31:23

am random as hell and

31:26

actually

31:32

don't think that's a problem unless you make

31:34

it one right .

31:36

I was thinking that I

31:39

feel that a topic emerging for us to do

31:41

on a future episode

31:43

around the

31:47

importance of structure

31:49

and systems for beings like us , sort

31:51

of non-conventional beings , like

31:53

I think we should absolutely touch that because I think we

31:55

also have a lot of skill in that area as well , and

31:59

it's not about , like , not having

32:01

things that support us to be consistent

32:04

. Consistent rabbit is consistent

32:06

, and like I

32:09

think the thing I'm taking away from what we're

32:11

saying and hearing you say is , like

32:13

, if

32:19

consistency , if

32:22

being consistent , isn't a true behavior

32:25

born from , it's

32:29

interesting . How did you find this ?

32:33

Well , there are things that there are places

32:35

where I am consistent right

32:38

so and there's places where everyone

32:40

is consistent in something

32:42

. So , like I'm consistent in my journaling

32:45

practice . That

32:47

doesn't mean every day I journal and

32:50

every day it's like the same thing , but it's just

32:52

that will happen

32:55

, because it has to happen , because

32:57

it feels like something I have to do

33:00

, I enjoy doing it , I

33:03

need it , so

33:07

I think there's something around the clues

33:10

. So

33:12

, as a coach , if somebody wanted

33:17

to be more consistent let's say that was the thing they want

33:19

to work on and they didn't feel very consistent , I

33:21

would draw their attention to where they already were consistent

33:24

, first of all , because there's always places

33:26

, and then I would look at what we can learn

33:28

from those places where they're already consistent

33:30

, which tells us about potentially

33:33

what they need and stuff

33:35

. But I

33:37

agree , I think it'd be good because I think sometimes people

33:39

will make because I own

33:42

this aspect of me and

33:44

then I do also hear

33:46

from people

33:48

that I can hear like there's

33:51

a lot of assumptions they've made , like

33:53

I don't have structure or I don't have and actually

33:55

I do , but it's not

33:57

stifling and it's not bullshit

34:00

, that's been given to me by some

34:02

man somewhere . Do you know what I mean from the fucking

34:04

50s or something ? Because

34:07

I'm not trying to live that life right . So

34:09

there's just so many more interesting . Like

34:11

it's like nature

34:14

, it's all just nature for me . Like , where

34:16

is what's the consistency in nature ?

34:18

That's it nature growing Like . I

34:20

use the example of the early days

34:22

of meeting someone and dating right , you

34:24

want to . There's a spark

34:26

, you want it to grow . How do you create the conditions

34:29

for that spark to grow ? Do

34:31

you start being a perfect being ? Does

34:34

that last right when you're like , oh , I'm going to show

34:36

you my like perfect , my

34:39

perfect , polished presentation , or do

34:42

you actually like ? You know , I'm

34:44

really playing this dance right now , really

34:47

showing up as honestly as possible exactly

34:49

where I am not holding someone

34:51

else to a different standard than I hold myself , like

34:54

holding myself in the way I want to

34:56

hold myself , and that's with a lot of grace

34:58

to be a human and

35:01

so knowing that also

35:03

, I'm not the one that has to control it . I think so

35:06

many people enter into relationships with

35:08

so much will to make something happen and keep

35:10

it alive that the other person just fucking

35:12

gets recruited and the next thing you know they're in

35:14

a relationship .

35:15

Yeah , and it could be any one .

35:17

I let this actually co-creation , the co-creation

35:19

of a thing that is

35:21

held by two people and you

35:23

are coming together to grow something together

35:26

is . It takes

35:28

me all the way back to the soil metaphor of

35:30

like the ingredients you need In

35:33

order for something to grow . It takes me all the back to the thing

35:35

you said when we were talking about having

35:37

it and you were saying , like , in order

35:40

to have it like , your system needs

35:42

to be a place where it can actually be

35:44

had right , like

35:46

your actual vessel system

35:48

, body needs to be ready and

35:51

available to receive the thing that you

35:53

want and that takes work

35:55

and that takes growth . So I'm getting this real metaphor

35:57

of nature . I'm getting this real . I'm

36:00

really feeling the energy of growing

36:03

. I think the feminine

36:05

energy is the thing that has things

36:07

truly grow at the right

36:09

time , in

36:11

its right pace , with

36:15

a lot of power . Think about like weeds

36:17

coming up through concrete .

36:18

Exactly , Exactly

36:22

, and I agree with all of that

36:24

, and I

36:27

also am aware that

36:32

the bigger conditions

36:35

are not created for that . Any

36:37

of that's happened , right

36:40

? So , even like in organizations

36:43

, I've really

36:45

noticed how much they've changed over

36:47

the years , like from working in the

36:49

night 20 years ago or so and

36:52

then over the years working with them , all

36:56

industries there's

36:58

no fucking time , babe . They

37:00

are all doing way too much . It

37:03

is ridiculous , right ? They're

37:06

bringing people like us to do stuff that requires

37:08

, like , some high level thinking . High

37:12

level thinking requires space . Thank

37:14

God , no space .

37:16

None .

37:17

Like . I'm not talking about having ridiculous amounts and

37:19

stuff . I always believe

37:21

it needs to be reliable to the environment

37:24

, but there's something about the environment that

37:26

in and of itself , is like you

37:29

can't like it's , you haven't got time , there's

37:31

no time for people to do anything with each other or

37:33

to speak to each other , and

37:35

so , and it's just the pace , boom , boom , boom

37:37

, boom , boom , boom . And then I can

37:39

just see how that goes everywhere , like then

37:41

at home at school . I told

37:43

you my niece is I don't know . It might have told you when

37:45

I went to my niece's assembly

37:48

a

37:50

while back when she won something . One

37:52

of their school values is urgency , urgency

37:57

. I'm sitting there like , oh my , how

37:59

is that a value ? That is terrible value . And

38:02

then some little boy won something for

38:04

urgency . It

38:07

was literally like I

38:09

was so conflicted I didn't want to clap for it , but I wanted

38:11

to clap for the little boy and it

38:14

was like this is something like we're

38:16

awarding him this thing for urgency because we've got

38:18

lots to do . It's

38:21

just like , oh my gosh

38:23

, you know a school

38:25

value . So

38:32

it's wider . I know like it's terrible

38:35

, right , those wider

38:37

conditions are

38:40

not . So it's a why I'm saying this . I'm not saying this

38:42

is in like , so there's nothing you can do about it . Keep

38:44

learning the fuck out , good luck . No

38:47

, the reason why I'm saying it is because burnout

38:51

right . So even to do some

38:53

of this stuff we're talking about requires

38:56

we're going against the grain . We're

39:00

going against the grain to do it , so that

39:02

in and of itself is an extra load

39:04

on your that you're carrying

39:06

around all the time , because

39:09

if you don't , you know

39:11

that you run the risk of being swept away with

39:14

all the other craziness . Yeah

39:17

, it's relentlessly coming at you 24

39:19

fucking seven .

39:21

I mean it's so interesting you bring up values because I

39:23

actually had someone ask my niece's and nephews tonight

39:25

what are their school values and see if they know I'm

39:28

super curious to see what is being

39:30

encouraged Like . What's the invitation

39:33

, what are they learning as a

39:35

value for how , this particular structure

39:37

of their lives , how do they show up in

39:40

this particular institution or structure of school

39:42

? So

39:46

that's I'm like super

39:48

curious . But

39:50

in general , I think that you know , our values

39:53

contrast , the

39:55

unconscious , the influence our

39:57

behavior , our relationships , our

40:00

choices , enormously Absolutely

40:03

Right . Our you

40:06

know , my behavior cycles

40:09

in the last few weeks , you

40:14

know , will show me what I value . Right now

40:16

. I'm finding this conflict

40:18

currently in my life where I have

40:21

all these things I really

40:23

care about and they're all

40:25

kind of flowing

40:27

on and asking a lot of me and I don't want

40:32

to sacrifice my life . I

40:34

value living my life greatly and

40:38

so that value of wanting

40:40

to live fully is

40:42

at odds with my value of

40:44

well . I want

40:47

there , without showing the details

40:49

of it , a very , very deep nutrition

40:51

, health , hormonal repair

40:54

, recovery journey . That is

40:57

the deepest I've ever gone with my health . And

41:00

so I've got this life , I want

41:03

to live and I've got all this exciting stuff happening . I'm like finally

41:05

going to French school . I'm

41:07

learning French for the first time

41:09

, even though I've tried many times . It's happening

41:11

and Lola and

41:13

I have also been doing it together , which has been super fun

41:15

. Sorry , throwing you in there

41:18

. Which has been super fun , and

41:20

I've been finding all this connection . I'm

41:23

also just loving my life

41:25

in Paris and just really starting

41:28

to turn a corner there . It feels like it's

41:30

just getting going . This life of the last three

41:32

years I've been building and sort of laying the

41:34

roots and the foundation and the soil for

41:37

starting to really pop . I'm

41:39

in this big creation process

41:41

with my work . I'm like teaching this new

41:44

program . I'm loving that . It's such a creative

41:46

project for me . I'm loving who I'm working with . I'm

41:49

also just , you know , business

41:51

as usual , and it's a lot of stuff

41:53

. It's even I say that , oh

41:55

my God , that is a lot .

41:57

I feel tired even just hearing Hearing about .

42:00

What was I tired ? I still

42:03

think that I shouldn't be this tired yeah

42:06

.

42:06

You know , when you said , oh God , wasn't

42:09

so bad .

42:10

Classic Wow

42:15

, it's just values

42:17

. It's going to go back to values . You're

42:20

going to go back to values .

42:21

I was like yeah , yeah , yeah , Go on .

42:23

James , I

42:27

was going to say that when I , when

42:29

I slow down , I can see that I value

42:31

a lot of things right now and

42:34

there are some that are more important than others , and that does

42:36

help me make choices in my life that feel

42:38

disappointing to other parts of me that just want to have a great

42:41

time and keep going and not stop and like never

42:43

put it down . I do value deeply

42:45

, like long-term

42:48

health and

42:50

actually being okay and actually being here for

42:52

a long time and actually reducing

42:54

stress and reducing all

42:56

the extra that comes with the override

42:59

. So that's

43:01

what I was going to say there

43:03

are some values that are more important than others and

43:06

I think it's a constant conversation between those

43:08

parts .

43:09

Absolutely , and situation , specific

43:12

time , specific certain times of your life , like

43:16

it's a dynamic , moving thing

43:18

. When you said that about , though

43:20

, looking back over the last couple of weeks and I can look at what

43:23

I value , I think I want to just make a distinction

43:26

between value and

43:30

what's being honored , because

43:32

for me they're a bit different , because when you said that

43:34

and I look back and I feel , oh my God , I'd

43:37

say over the last couple of weeks , looking

43:40

back at my life , I'd say that I valued productivity

43:42

. I do not value productivity

43:44

. I do not . Yeah

43:46

, there's not a value I hold . I

43:49

value , like progress , and I was like no , no

43:51

, I know , right , I don't want

43:53

to honor it a

43:55

lot , so

44:00

I

44:04

think that's a really useful thing to do that , though , to

44:06

look back and be like oh , if I look at my life , what

44:08

does it look like ? I value

44:10

. Because I think a lot of people

44:13

do that . Obviously there's a mismatch , because a lot of people will say things

44:15

like my family's the most . I mean I do

44:17

all the time in workshops , right , so it's like my

44:19

family's the most important thing my health , my family

44:22

often those are the two things . I'm not getting

44:24

a lot of you . What's getting a lot of your attention

44:26

is work , stressy

44:29

type stuff . I

44:33

think the other thing about values is that you

44:37

do need to . Yeah

44:39

, I think that's also part of the burnout , isn't it ? Yeah

44:43

, that's the burnout , because

44:46

my number one value is joy and

44:50

I don't feel any connection to it whatsoever

44:52

when I'm burning out , when

44:54

I'm not in a not juicy state . No

44:57

, it's not available .

44:58

Love that your top value is joy . Just love that

45:00

so much , 100% . It's so

45:03

true for you .

45:07

I feel it , and it's something that I felt

45:09

like I had to fight

45:11

for , sort of , because I think I had a lot of judgment

45:13

about it . But the reality of it is I

45:16

like to have a good time , I

45:18

like to have a lot of fun , and

45:21

also that what that fun might look like , it's about what's

45:23

fun to me , you

45:25

know , and also joy is a massive

45:28

motivator to me and I get a lot done .

45:30

So maybe go back to something else we said earlier .

45:32

Yeah , I can do a lot from joy and

45:36

that's what I suppose I'm trying to work to

45:39

do more of . So there you go , it's

45:41

a nice little bit of a learning for myself there .

45:43

Well , it reminds me of when , in

45:46

an earlier episode , we talked about you know , Lola

45:48

and I's background , how we met each other . I

45:51

think back to our spark days when we worked

45:53

together and

45:56

when we were first to come in with friends and

45:58

to me it sort of feels

46:00

like looking back on that . Oh , it's that cosmic joy

46:02

, partnership , Like we had

46:05

such a laugh

46:07

. I remember us going to the National

46:10

Charity Awards . So

46:15

I'm like black tie event super

46:18

dry , Little drew respect super

46:20

dry , and

46:23

we were going to go to

46:25

these fundraising events and you know

46:27

the nonprofit world . It's

46:31

a bit serious , bit dry and we really

46:33

bought the juice . We bought the juice everywhere

46:36

we went . I remember we found that restaurant . We loved

46:38

Bombing bomb , Bombing

46:41

bomb . We

46:45

were like , right , this is where all our staff dudes

46:47

are going to be . That's our leaving . Do we're

46:49

going to host our leaving ? Do at Bombing bomb , we're going

46:51

to go there . We're going to drink wine , we're going to get drunk after work

46:53

. Like we really had

46:56

the best time and I'm so grateful for you

46:58

. I wouldn't have lasted as

47:00

long as I did in that world without you . We

47:03

just and I think that's testament to like

47:05

be you are who you are in your

47:07

world , Doesn't matter the context . Like you bring

47:09

the thing that's you , you

47:12

will bring that everywhere .

47:14

I love it . I love joy . It's

47:17

important , and judged right Negatively

47:19

often , I think in the sort

47:21

of more mainstream world does not being sort of serious

47:24

enough . You know I still take

47:26

things seriously blah , blah , blah , blah , blah . But

47:28

joy , that's how I was built and I like

47:30

it and I don't like it . When there's no joy about it , I don't do well

47:33

, I want to say

47:35

that there's something about , I

47:40

suppose , when we know your values , when you done

47:43

some value work , you've always got them to hold

47:45

on to and to ask yourself like how can I

47:48

? This is good I'm thinking about . I've

47:50

got a lot on my plate at the moment . I'm in a massive

47:52

transition . I'm selling , in the

47:54

final weeks of selling a property

47:56

, and this kind of stuff is horrible

47:59

. I hate it . For me it's horrible

48:01

. I've learned so much about

48:03

myself . It's

48:06

been so stressful . I

48:09

felt levels of anxiety this year that I've

48:11

never felt before in my life . I feel like a whole

48:13

load of grief and stress

48:16

from my childhood has decided to hitch

48:18

a ride out at the same fucking time . It's

48:21

just been like , oh my God , really

48:23

it's been full on . I love it , but

48:26

it has it's been full on . We're

48:29

moving , we've got renovations to do . It's

48:32

a move that signals moving to

48:34

care for my mum , who's getting older as well , and

48:37

I've got a son who's got autism . Again

48:40

, we are taking everything into our own

48:42

hands because the system's

48:45

not built for it . I'm not even going to fuck about there , we're

48:47

going to do it our way . He will thrive . All

48:50

of that , though , takes a lot

48:52

right , and then I'm just changing . I am

48:54

changing like nothing

48:56

else . There is nothing tickling to

48:59

anymore from the past

49:01

. I don't know . I'm

49:03

just things are moving around too fast in

49:06

my mind for me to keep

49:08

up . So just feel along for the ride

49:10

at the moment , and the dust will settle

49:12

. But I'm stretched

49:14

. I am stretched and

49:18

pulled , and

49:23

what's interesting in this is I'm

49:25

saying this because you're talking about you've mentioned sacrifice

49:27

a few times . I

49:29

don't like sacrifice . I don't like that word . It's

49:35

a bit of a trickery word for me , because it feels like one of

49:37

those words that I was raised

49:39

with , that I should

49:42

be doing , and I refuse . You know , it's like kind

49:44

of energy for me . What I do like

49:46

is choice . I do like choice and

49:49

like even

49:51

this morning I sat down to

49:53

it takes a lot to just care

49:55

for myself at the moment . So I've done all the bits to care for myself

49:57

this morning . I've gone for a walk and I've come

50:00

back and then

50:02

I've heard that you know that my mom was feeling a bit faint

50:04

or whatever . And I went to do some work and

50:07

I could set . As soon as I sat down I was like I can't , I

50:10

have to go , I have to go and see her now

50:12

. I'm not going to be okay until I go and see

50:14

her with my own eyes . I

50:17

knew she was okay , but I just I knew that what I

50:19

needed was I need to see her with my own eyes and sort of satisfy

50:21

my system that she is okay

50:23

and that we are in the tail end of this

50:25

move but

50:28

also been holding this for

50:31

too long . This is what it is . This

50:33

is such a big thing on my bandwidth and

50:36

they all say moving house is stressful and we all know

50:38

that and I don't really didn't really understand

50:40

why . I'm like I don't understand why it's so stressful

50:42

to be selling , but it's for me it's

50:44

stressful because nothing is happening . That's

50:47

what the stress is . The stress is there's

50:49

a lot going on somewhere else behind the

50:51

scenes in the ether . I don't really

50:53

fully understand and

50:56

it's just long

50:58

. It's really long right , and you can't

51:00

and your life's on hold and it's ugh

51:02

. And

51:08

what I felt really clearly this morning

51:10

was like ugh

51:12

. I am in the

51:14

caring stage of my life right now

51:16

, you know , because

51:19

I actually did some vision in this morning actually on my life and

51:22

just checking in with stuff and

51:26

what's important to me . You know I would have to keep

51:28

an eye . What's important to me is my life going

51:30

in the in the direction of what's important

51:32

to me , and I realized how important

51:34

it actually is for me at this stage of my life to

51:37

care for my son and care for my

51:39

mom , not

51:42

and to care for myself , by the way , yeah , but

51:45

not in a sacrificey way or anything like that

51:47

. It is a quite a heavy load , but I do think

51:49

how you carry the load matters . I

51:53

think I lead the load more than carry it all by myself

51:55

, but

51:57

actually what's worse is not being able

51:59

to do what I need to . This is more

52:01

for me at the moment , you know

52:04

like anyway , I won't go into details there

52:06

and so there are choices

52:08

for me to make at the moment

52:10

, not sacrifices , but choices

52:12

in terms , because it's almost like you

52:14

have this you have

52:16

a limit on

52:18

your capacity , your time

52:20

, your weather . How do you want

52:23

to spend it ? What do you want to spend that doing

52:25

? I'm

52:27

still doing too much , don't get me wrong . And

52:32

my body says I'm doing too much . My mind doesn't think I'm

52:34

doing too much at all and yeah , but

52:37

at

52:39

some point I will have moved and then that will

52:41

come off my sort

52:45

of bandwidth , and

52:49

then there's a transition as well . I don't know . There's

52:51

just something for me around and I'm not alone

52:54

, right , I'm not alone in this kind of thing in terms

52:56

of parents

52:58

getting older that you now have to

53:00

factor in caring for somehow . Whether

53:03

you physically do it , whether you outsource it , even

53:06

, I think even if you're not actively involved

53:08

, it's still a toll

53:11

. There's still an energetic something

53:13

, is still some kind of stress on your plate , right

53:15

, and

53:17

then again so that just in of itself , but again

53:19

trying to hold that in a way that's authentic

53:22

to me , what I've lost in the

53:24

last month is joy . You

53:27

know , like there's still . There is joy to be

53:29

had here still , even in all of this right

53:31

, but that has definitely been what

53:33

made the whole thing more stressful . So

53:37

I'm now feeling like okay

53:39

. My question

53:43

for myself is you know , how can I ? I

53:47

know something like how can I have more joy in this process ? Prioritize

53:52

it , hold it , remember that I need you know .

53:55

I think that's such a beautiful kind of

53:57

nuggets who complete

54:00

with how everything

54:04

we've talked about like how

54:07

can we

54:09

have more joy ?

54:13

Good for the nervous system . That

54:27

was one of those things that didn't need to be said

54:29

.

54:33

So good , we're

54:38

still getting used to ending it Like

54:43

that . That's how we end it .

54:45

Awkwardly .

54:47

That's how it looks .

54:49

So awkward endings . My people

54:51

. Yeah , thank you , yeah , thank

54:53

you . I'm

54:56

Waveinton , though one .

54:58

Bye . Okay , all right

55:00

, bye everyone . Thanks so much , thanks

55:03

so much .