0:00

The delicious ice cold taste of Dr. Pepper

0:02

has a lasting effect on people. Lindsay from

0:04

Sacramento said... Pro tip, 40 degrees is the

0:06

perfect temperature for an ice cold Dr. Pepper. Why

0:08

is 40 degrees the perfect temperature for Dr.

0:11

Pepper? We brought in Sue from Duluth, Minnesota to

0:13

tell us. Oh yeah, I know a thing or two

0:15

about cold. Oh, that right there is the

0:17

perfect kind of ice cold for Dr. Pepper. Mmm,

0:20

I'd share that with my friend Nancy. She likes

0:22

Dr. Pepper too, you know. My coldest... Alright, that'll

0:24

be all, Sue. Having a perfect temperature for

0:26

your Dr. Pepper? It's a Pepper thing. Inspired

0:28

by Real Fan posts. Hey,

0:31

hey, I'm Jimmy Bullard and

0:33

this is me old Maca-Fenners. We're back

0:35

together, son. How are ya? Alright, Bullard,

0:37

great to be back working with you. What

0:40

are we doing here though? We're starting a

0:42

football club in podcast form. The only thing

0:44

you know, it's called FC Bullard. After

0:47

that, it's all up for grabs. So, we

0:49

haven't got any players, we haven't got kids,

0:51

we haven't got a club badge, we haven't

0:53

got a stadium. Correct. FC

0:56

Bullard. Welcome to the club.

1:01

This is a

1:04

proud podcast. What

1:07

the fuck? You're pissing blood out your

1:09

nose. We're in a fucking shark cage

1:11

in the waters. Get me out. Hi,

1:17

I'm Joe Marla. And I

1:19

am Tom Fordyce. And this

1:22

is Things People Do. Some

1:24

people do amazing things. On

1:26

this show, we meet Submariners,

1:28

theatre critics, airport security, and

1:30

some people who do other

1:33

things like recruitment, cheesemakers, drainage

1:35

engineers, because everyone is interesting

1:37

if you ask the right

1:39

questions. See, I used to

1:41

hate people, but this podcast

1:44

has changed me, and now I

1:46

can't get enough of people. And the

1:48

weird and wonderful things they do. Standing

1:51

there, knife in the hand, cutting into

1:53

people, and hopefully making them better. On

1:55

the underground, there are so many

1:57

smutty acronyms and words. Oh, you were

1:59

a robot, Lydia. Well, how would you know? I mean... Oh

2:01

my god. On the show

2:03

today... I'm Dan, and I'm a freediver.

2:06

The longest I've ever held my breath for was six

2:08

minutes and 45 seconds. Fuck off.

2:11

True. We've got someone from the

2:13

Netherlands here, and it just cropped up to me.

2:15

Why do they call it a Dutch oven? At

2:18

the surface, you have to... This is very vital.

2:21

You have to stay conscious. That's

2:23

a good rule of things. If I Google

2:25

Dean's blue hull... You

2:28

get smurf sex. I'm very

2:30

excited about this one. I wonder

2:32

how long he can hold his breath underwater.

2:35

Ah, me too, Joe. I want

2:37

to know about the amazing aquatic

2:39

life that he must see while

2:41

he's down there. Welcome to Things

2:43

People Do. Hi,

2:47

Dan. Hey, Joe. You okay? I'm good,

2:49

man. How are you? Yeah, good. You look

2:51

a bit bashful today, Joe. Yeah, maybe, um...

2:54

There's a little bit. I think I'm a little bit

2:57

blown away by... ...what Dan

2:59

looks like. I ascribe for our listeners the

3:01

magnificent sight of him. I would put Dan

3:03

here at like a six foot two, three,

3:05

four. Yeah. Yeah, there

3:07

you go. Six foot four. Tall,

3:10

dark, and handsome. And

3:12

he's got like... Go a lot. Oh, nice hair.

3:14

He's got an accent. Dutch

3:16

accent. Lovely accent. That's not generally

3:19

a sexy thing, though, is it?

3:21

Mm, depends what floats your boat.

3:23

All right. Down that canal he

3:26

holds. That was just

3:28

like a geographical reference. It was nice. It was really

3:30

nice. I think I wore your boat on my canal,

3:32

actually. With all due respect.

3:35

That's the first time you've made a

3:37

Netherlands-specific gang. Yeah. Um, no. And the

3:39

other part is not only how Dan

3:42

looks. It's... I'm a little bit worried about

3:44

getting your name wrong all the time. Right. And we've just

3:46

had that little chat where you said it's...

3:48

It's... Because it's D-A-A-N. Yeah.

3:51

So it's Dan. Um... So

3:53

every time I say, Dan... I

3:56

just... I have to say, Dan... But

3:58

you said it's not, is it? Oh. Like

4:01

a name. Like a name, Dan. Yeah, not

4:03

like a post-coital

4:06

kind of thing. So

4:10

can I just call you Dan? Yeah. Yeah,

4:12

that's lovely. Perfect. I

4:15

can tell from your face that you've already got three

4:17

or four different versions of Dan's name. Dan.

4:20

Yeah, that's okay. And you're just going to rotate

4:23

through them because you've got no recollection of the

4:25

correct one. Yeah. I'm

4:27

going to actually try and focus on more of the questions

4:29

because I'm going to struggle with that as well because I

4:32

actually thought my first question to

4:34

you would be fucking hell. How

4:36

many buildings have you like, what's the

4:38

highest building you've jumped off then? Because

4:41

that's what I thought freediving was.

4:44

Yeah. But it turns out

4:46

you're not. So what is a freediver? So

4:48

freediving as a competitive sport is holding your

4:50

breath for either as long as possible or

4:52

you swim as far as possible in a

4:54

pool or you dive as

4:57

deep as possible. But like

4:59

all of that on breath hold. So

5:01

it's not jumping off of stuff. It's

5:03

being in the water and going down. So it

5:05

has to be underwater. We

5:08

can't just sit here and compete in

5:10

freediving. I mean, you could if you

5:12

wanted to, but then

5:14

how do you prove that you're not breathing if

5:17

you just sit there and be very still? Oh

5:19

yeah. Can we start off Dan

5:21

by saying how long you can hold your breath

5:23

for because we're not going to be able to

5:25

submerses ourselves today. This is true. The longest I've

5:27

ever held my breath for was six minutes and

5:29

45 seconds. Fuck off. True.

5:32

You've held your breath for over six minutes.

5:35

My wife can go over seven minutes. World

5:37

record is over 10 minutes. But

5:39

that's not possible. You're telling me

5:42

the truth. Yeah. Yeah. Do

5:44

you want to try something like just hold your breath now? Maybe

5:46

one of us can time you. Yeah. And

5:51

then I'll tell you the big

5:53

secret, which is not a secret at all. And you

5:55

give it another go and see. Do

5:58

you mind if I don't make eye contact with you? Yeah.

6:01

So initially I don't want to be come across

6:03

rude. Not at all. I've got my stopwatch ready.

6:05

Dan, if you could for the benefit of our

6:08

listeners for whom otherwise a period of holding breath

6:10

might be a dull period, you could describe

6:12

the expression on Joe's face. Well, I was

6:14

thinking we could discuss a little bit what's going

6:16

on with him as well. Right, you ready?

6:18

You ready? Can't you ready? Whenever you're ready. Wait,

6:20

wait, wait, wait, wait. I'm a bit nervous.

6:22

Wait, three. I'll count you in,

6:25

save the breath. Ready? Three, two,

6:27

one. Don't breathe. He's

6:30

holding his nose in. He's holding his nose. That's very

6:32

nice. I was going to go like gentlemen's honor and

6:35

we're all grownups here, kind of.

6:38

So what's happening is, You

6:42

can see finger gesture which fills the nose. So what's happening with

6:44

Joe is he's

6:46

holding his breath obviously, but

6:49

most people don't realize

6:51

is they think, they

6:54

think when you hold your breath and you start getting

6:56

that choky feeling, they think you're

6:58

running out of oxygen. So they think like

7:00

if you do that for too long, you're going to die.

7:03

35 seconds, James. Oh, fuck off. He's gone. Mate.

7:07

How long was that? I stopped a little bit

7:10

late, it was 35 seconds. 35 seconds. No, it

7:12

wasn't. It was. I was there for ages. But

7:14

that's one of the things that happens. Like

7:17

as soon as you hold your breath, time kind of

7:19

feels like it slows down. Yeah. So

7:21

what that is, is you normally

7:23

subconsciously measure your time in breaths

7:26

you take and in heartbeats. As

7:28

soon as you hold your breath, you become more aware

7:31

of your heartbeat because the breath goes away. So

7:33

you kind of become this autonomous thing. You

7:36

can feel your heartbeat and it's going fast and

7:38

then you will feel that urge of

7:41

starting to want to breathe, right? And

7:43

it's kind of a panicky feeling because

7:45

you think you're running out of oxygen and you think

7:47

you're kind of going to die. So the first secret

7:50

of freediving, which is not a secret at all, but

7:52

that feeling that you're feeling, that panicky feeling

7:55

is actually the buildup of carbon dioxide,

7:58

CO2. So when you're breathing, to. things

8:00

happen. One, you take in oxygen and

8:02

then when you breathe out you expel

8:04

carbon dioxide. So as soon as

8:06

you hold your breath, your oxygen levels are now dropping.

8:08

Your lungs are still full of oxygen, your blood is

8:10

full of oxygen, you've got plenty of reserves, so you

8:12

are probably still at 100% oxygen, F plus 35 seconds,

8:15

easily at 100%. But you keep

8:19

on producing CO2 and the brain actually

8:22

notices this balance between O2 and CO2.

8:24

So that feeling

8:26

you're having is just carbon dioxide,

8:28

it's just CO2, which is like

8:31

not a dangerous thing. It

8:33

feels scary, but the trick

8:35

to freediving is to kind of go like

8:37

okay, that's just CO2, it's not dangerous, it's

8:40

not scary, I can endure it. And

8:42

then the second trick with freediving is

8:44

always like the more relaxed you are,

8:46

the longer you can hold your breath,

8:48

the less oxygen you can consume.

8:50

So what you were doing is

8:53

like sitting there and getting very

8:55

tense, right? Instead try and relax

8:57

into that feeling of like okay,

9:00

just feel yourself be heavy in your chair, let the

9:02

chair do the work. Smell it. Be

9:05

moderately heavy, lightweight. So what I'd like

9:07

you to do now is sit

9:10

there for a little while, breathe

9:13

easy and when you take that

9:15

last breath, make sure that you breathe into your

9:17

belly, like take a full breath. And

9:21

then squeeze it when you don't go. When

9:24

you want me to start the stopwatch, don't

9:27

want any better. When he takes his last

9:29

breath, make it a nice full breath and

9:31

then just relax into that feeling. And

9:33

then as soon as you feel this comfort, try and

9:36

relax into that a bit more. That's all that there

9:38

is to it. There he goes. Yeah,

9:42

start it. Any tips from here Dan at this point?

9:44

But you can already see like he's more relaxed.

9:46

His eyes are closed, which means like

9:49

there's less input into his brain. The brain

9:51

is a big consumer of oxygen as well.

9:53

Even chose. His shoulders

9:55

are looking nice and relaxed and they're dropped.

10:00

fingers are loose. It's a

10:02

much more pleasant experience when you relax into

10:04

it. And when you know that that feeling

10:06

that you're feeling, like it's not

10:08

so much like, I'm gonna die due

10:11

to a lack of oxygen. No, like

10:13

he's got lots of oxygen coursing through his

10:15

through his blood and through his veins. Just

10:17

smashed your brain is fine. Race

10:20

past you, P.P. Everything is fine.

10:22

There you go. I

10:24

did more. That was only three seconds. That

10:26

went so much quicker. I

10:29

felt peace. That's

10:31

the trick. Now, when you're in water, it

10:33

makes it even easier. Because you don't have

10:35

to carry anything like everything can be relaxed.

10:38

Everything is just laying there. It's the

10:40

weirdest, like that's the weirdest discipline in

10:42

our sport is just the breath hold.

10:44

Because basically what you're doing is the

10:46

art of doing nothing, right? You're not

10:48

doing anything. You're not even breathing. You're

10:50

not moving, you're not. And then people

10:52

can lay there for 10 minutes doing

10:54

nothing. And then it turns out that

10:56

doing nothing is actually really difficult. But

10:58

I know you've just given us a

11:00

quick talk through how to improve holding

11:02

your breath. But even still, I managed

11:04

42 seconds. And

11:06

you said you can hold it for six minutes and

11:09

45. And your wife can hold it

11:12

longer. That's a

11:14

big fucking jump up from me just improving

11:16

by seven seconds to you then going, I'll

11:18

do it for another seven minutes. Yeah, but

11:21

my first time was something

11:23

similar. Like I did a minute or something. And I

11:25

was in the water as well. The water really helps.

11:28

So it's very normal. Usually,

11:30

like we, my wife and I teach, we

11:33

have a school and beginners are always in

11:35

that range. So somewhere between 30 seconds and

11:37

a minute and a half. And

11:39

at the end of the course, it's usually two and

11:41

a half to, you know, you have beginners who can

11:44

go more than four. And

11:46

just from that knowledge, like nothing like

11:48

they haven't been physiologically changed. There's nothing

11:50

has changed. Just

11:52

that realization of like this. This

11:55

is co2 talking like it's just it's

11:57

it's not nothing as drastic as what

12:00

it feels like. Is that

12:02

your normal voice? I'm

12:04

a normal voice like this Joe! I'm trying to

12:08

drop it! I mean is that like how you

12:10

talk? Is that like the pace you talk at

12:12

as well? Because if I was in a class

12:14

with you, well I just sort of was in

12:16

a mini class with you, your

12:18

voice and interaction with me was

12:20

immediately helping me to just relax

12:24

even more into it. Do

12:26

you have to have this

12:28

sort of attitude in order to

12:31

be really good at what you do? I think it's

12:33

something you slip into. Normally I'm

12:36

a little bit of a silly person and

12:38

I like to make fart jokes. That

12:42

doesn't affect your ability to breathe. It's

12:44

a good thing to be able

12:48

to hold your breath when... That's true. Hang

12:50

on, we've got someone from the Netherlands here

12:52

and it just cropped up to me. Why

12:55

do they call it a Dutch oven? I

12:57

am. Because it's

13:00

cheap. It's a cheap way of heating

13:02

somebody. Sorry

13:04

Brian, hang on, why did you say fuck's taking

13:06

my ear? Sorry,

13:09

it's just going to... Dan's...

13:11

Dan is the one... Dan brought up

13:14

the farting mate. He's

13:17

the one bringing the show down. Yeah, no, it's

13:20

adjusting to a certain pace so you

13:22

find a frequency within yourself and

13:25

you do the same when you go diving. You adjust

13:27

to the pace of the ocean because

13:29

that's such a large body of water you

13:31

go a bit slower. It would

13:33

be weird to ask the ocean to adjust to

13:36

your pace. That's not how it works. It

13:39

probably wouldn't listen or that. No, probably not.

13:41

I'm wondering, Joe, as we

13:43

listen to Dan, what came first? As Joe's

13:45

alludes to you, you have this

13:49

very calm demeanor and very

13:51

calm energy. Which came

13:53

first? Your free diving, has that influenced

13:55

your personality or were you always a super

13:57

chill person and then the free diving? was

13:59

a totally natural fit for who you were.

14:01

That's a good question. I've

14:03

never thought about it. I

14:06

wouldn't describe myself as a chill person

14:08

normally, but freediving certainly has

14:10

taught me how to relax. And

14:13

when you talk about relaxation, it's always

14:15

like some dude in a lotus position

14:17

on a mountain singing

14:19

home or something. And

14:23

from what I've understood about relaxation, it's

14:25

a physical thing. It's letting

14:27

your body surrender to gravity. That's

14:29

all it is to me, like physical

14:32

first. And when you notice that, your

14:34

breathing adjusts and everything adjusts and you

14:36

become more calm. So I've

14:38

been freediving for 20 years. And yeah,

14:40

I think I'm a

14:42

much more relaxed person because of it.

14:44

So I am, yeah, no, the freediving

14:46

came first, the relaxation came after that.

14:49

I've still not asked or got

14:51

my head around. Like, what is

14:53

it? Just go underwater and

14:56

you just sit there or do you

14:58

like pull yourself down? What's the

15:00

purpose of freediving? Okay, so,

15:03

you know, with like most sports, say

15:06

rugby, for example, right? The

15:08

purpose is to beat your

15:10

opponent and to score more points than

15:13

they do. In competitive freediving

15:15

is to, let's say depth,

15:17

for example, it's to go as deep as you

15:19

possibly can. So before a

15:21

competition, you say, I would like to

15:23

dive to a hundred meters

15:26

or lots of people do this. I don't think my watch

15:28

would, I think it only

15:30

goes three meters. Your watch would

15:32

crack. Okay. But we wear specialized

15:34

watches. Okay. So you set

15:37

the line, the competition line to exactly

15:39

a hundred meters. So

15:41

you don't have to go deeper than that and you won't go

15:43

shallower than that. That's an exact measurement. And

15:45

then you have an exact dive time as

15:48

well. Like they say, okay, so your dive

15:50

will be, like the competition starts at

15:52

10, your dive will be

15:54

the fourth and it will be at 10, 20. So

15:57

you know exactly when you're gonna dive, you

15:59

know exactly. how deep you want to dive. And

16:02

then at 10, 20 they say official top, you

16:04

know, go for it. You take

16:06

your final breath and then you try to get

16:08

to 100 meters. How are you getting

16:10

down there? Are you holding onto something heavy? Are

16:12

you swimming down there? Are you pulling yourself down

16:14

with a rope? There's several different

16:17

ways. The most popular way is like with a

16:19

monofin. So one big gigantic fin

16:21

like kind of like a fishtail that you

16:23

put on both feet. Like a

16:25

mermaid? Yeah. Oh. Yeah.

16:29

And the world record there is like 136 meters. What?

16:33

Yes. Or you can wear normal fins

16:35

like two fins on two feet and kick

16:37

yourself down then. It's a little bit

16:39

less efficient. So like the world record there is like 123, 124 meters.

16:44

Yeah, 123. Or you can

16:46

pull yourself down that rope, which is

16:48

slower, but it's really efficient. And

16:50

I think the world record there is

16:52

like 130 something as well. Or the

16:54

most difficult discipline is no fins at

16:57

all. You can't touch the line and

16:59

you just swim breaststroke. And even there

17:01

they swim below. There's one dude who

17:03

can swim below 100 meters that way.

17:05

That's insanely deep, John. Insanely deep. I'm

17:08

trying to like look

17:10

at a 100 meter track in

17:12

my head and then like put it in the water. And

17:16

then go, oh, it's that deep. It's

17:18

a rugby pitch. How long is a rugby pitch?

17:20

I mean, it's about, oh yeah, Twickenham

17:22

is about, I think it's 98. Yeah.

17:26

So that whole bit, fuck off. The length of that deep,

17:28

yeah. Under the water. And when

17:30

you get to that marker, what's

17:33

there? Like a buzzer? Is that like a dong or

17:35

a bell? No,

17:37

there's what they call a bottom plate.

17:39

On those bottom plates, it looks

17:42

just like a plate, but there's velcro

17:44

text there. So you take a

17:46

tag, which proves that you've been there. And then you

17:48

bring that tag back up and you show the judges,

17:50

like I have the tag and

17:52

the tag together with your dive computer proves that

17:54

you've been down to a hundred meters. And then

17:57

there's usually also like there's a camera down there

17:59

recording the whole thing. So like there's there's plenty

18:01

of proof that that you haven't cheated it or

18:03

you know, let's talk about then Dan, let's talk

18:05

about what happens to your body as you get

18:08

deeper. Can you almost take us, I don't know,

18:10

in blocks of 10 meters? What

18:12

if Joe and I were capable of

18:14

freediving like you can as we descend

18:16

what's happening to us? I firmly believe

18:18

everybody's capable of freediving. You

18:20

say no, but like in our school, we've had

18:23

people that could barely swim. And at the end

18:25

of the course, they were

18:27

happy at 10 meters deep. 10 meters is

18:29

a very nice beginner's depth. So

18:31

when you're at the surface, you're at one

18:33

atmosphere, right? You have one atmosphere of pressure

18:36

above you. At 10 meters, that has doubled.

18:38

So you have two atmospheres. The

18:41

implication of that is that your lung volume

18:43

is now half. You still have to each

18:45

say only 10 meters, only a 10 meter.

18:47

You've got fucking miles to go down. Yeah,

18:49

that's the thing like, so at 10 meters,

18:51

it's half at 20 meters, you're at a

18:53

third, etc, etc. At a certain point, there

18:55

comes a point where you can no longer

18:57

exhale air, right? Like, like when you

18:59

try to breathe out everything you have

19:01

like, keep

19:06

pushing more, more, more, more, more, more, more.

19:09

Okay, now hold your breath. Okay,

19:12

he still has more than a quarter of his

19:14

lung volume in his lungs right now.

19:16

Face doesn't look like that. You can breathe again, Joe. Sorry.

19:22

Sorry about that. Wow. But that's the feeling

19:25

of going a little bit deeper. Like your

19:27

lungs shrink to as far as

19:29

they can shrink, but that there's a certain point

19:31

at which they can shrink no more. They

19:33

call that residual volume. It's usually between

19:36

20 and 30 meters somewhere. Hang on.

19:38

Your lungs shrink. Yeah, of course. So

19:40

when I breathe in, my lungs get

19:43

bigger, yeah? So when

19:45

I breathe out, they get smaller, but

19:47

like, they can, they can like

19:49

shrink to like, I can

19:51

put a bit of collapse. Oh, collapse.

19:53

Yeah, when they've been compressed, then. Yeah.

19:56

Is there the same amount of air left in them

19:58

and it's just compressed into some of the. or does

20:00

the air have to go somewhere? Exactly. So you

20:03

still have the same amount of air, but it

20:05

just occupies a smaller volume. It's

20:07

called Boyle's law, if I'm correct. Yeah, yes, you

20:09

are correct. Yeah, that's what I thought as well.

20:12

But what's interesting about

20:14

that, the thing that makes

20:16

you a buoyant person, like that makes you

20:19

float at the surface, is your lung volume

20:21

largely. So as your lung volume shrinks, your

20:23

buoyancy disappears. So at a certain point in

20:26

your dive, you start sinking. But

20:28

that's the fun thing. That's a good thing, isn't it? Because

20:30

you're swimming down, and at like 20, 25 meters, you

20:33

don't have to swim anymore. And you can just

20:36

start sinking like a storm. Boy, is that

20:38

not freaky as hell the first time it

20:40

happened. The first time it happens, it's a

20:42

little bit scary. It's as close to that

20:44

dream of flying that you will have that,

20:46

right? Like where you fly and it's effortless,

20:48

right? You just think that way and you

20:50

go that way. Free falling in freediving, they

20:52

call it the free fall because you're falling

20:55

and it's for free. Free

20:57

falling is the best feeling in the world. It's

21:00

so close to flying because you're not

21:03

doing anything, but there's locomotion.

21:05

Like it's completely free and the ocean is

21:07

pulling you down and it's not so fast

21:09

that it's scary. It's like a meter a

21:11

second. So it's walking pace, if

21:14

that. But because water is so dense,

21:16

you really feel it on your face and you

21:18

feel it in your hands and you can make

21:20

little adjustments to go faster, to

21:22

go slower. And it's just like your mind

21:24

just goes, whee! It's

21:28

such a lovely feeling. And if you're a

21:30

really deep freediver, like a hundred meter freediver,

21:32

from 25 to a hundred, you're not doing

21:34

anything. You're just enjoying the ride. So that's

21:36

more than a minute of getting just a

21:38

free ride down. How do you get back

21:40

up then? Do you have to swim really

21:42

hard? That's when you pay the price. Because

21:45

when you go back up, you have to fight against

21:47

that gravity that was helping you before. So

21:50

yeah, yeah, you have to kick a bit harder and

21:52

you have to really swim. And

21:54

this is also, ironically, the

21:56

time that you're beginning to run out of oxygen.

21:58

So that's usually when... It

22:00

starts getting a bit harder. But as you swim up

22:02

your lungs expand again and the swim becomes easier and

22:04

easier and it becomes Like the

22:07

last 10 meters are you don't even have to swim

22:09

anymore because you're just floating. So is the goal So

22:12

the goal say you've done a distance

22:16

Competition, you've gone down to 100

22:18

meters depth. So the depth. Yeah

22:21

Is the goal who gets to

22:24

100 meters quickest? mm-hmm, and Then

22:27

it doesn't matter how you get back up or

22:30

is does it matter how you get down

22:32

you get up? How does that

22:34

know so everybody announces their own depth? So

22:36

you can like if you want to you can announce

22:38

20 meters, but you're not gonna win the competition so

22:41

you're gonna announce like as close to what you

22:43

think you can do as This

22:46

conservative to announce So

22:48

some people announce 120 if they've done 125 in training Some

22:54

people announce 126

22:56

because they've done 125 and training, you know Yeah,

22:58

and the goal is to be the deepest

23:00

for the top free dive for most free dives

23:03

It's like the goal is to do a

23:05

meter more than you've done before to to

23:07

see if you can improve Like

23:09

we're trying to beat ourselves. We're not like I've

23:12

never said a world record, but that doesn't matter

23:15

I still love that feeling of free falling and

23:17

I still and it's just the downward bit

23:19

It doesn't matter what you're doing to come

23:21

back up. So if you say I'm gonna

23:23

swim with my monofin You

23:25

have to swim with your monofin. You can't be pulling up

23:27

the up the rope. That's a disqualification So you have to

23:29

swim with your monofin if you do it with the bifins

23:32

you have to do it with the bifins You can't be

23:34

pulling up and you know if you do it no fins

23:36

Oh, so the coming back to the

23:38

surface is part of it as well. Yeah,

23:40

absolutely I love the oh, yeah, yeah, and

23:42

then come at the surface you have to

23:45

this is very vital. You have to stay conscious

23:48

That's a good rule and it it's not

23:50

always the case that people are conscious at the surface

23:53

I like pass out on the way up. Yeah

23:56

that happens like there are blackouts at a certain

23:58

point You're gonna run out of oxygen I mean,

24:00

the CO2 builds up, yes, but

24:02

like your O2 goes down as

24:05

well at a certain point. But that's

24:07

why there's like safety freedivers who swim

24:10

with you the last third of the way. So if

24:12

you go to a hundred meters, they'll meet you at

24:14

35 meters and they swim up with you. So if

24:16

like you black out somewhere between 30 and

24:19

the surface, they'll grab you and bring you to the surface

24:21

and you know, make sure that you're

24:23

okay. Are we talking, I'm trying to think about

24:26

the equipment you might use and immediately Joe, I'm

24:28

getting confused because my brain is suggesting aqua lungs

24:30

and all this sort of stuff that you absolutely

24:32

don't need if you are a freediver. So you've

24:34

got your, why did you do that? Well, you

24:36

knew I wouldn't know what an aqua lung is.

24:38

I thought you knew what an aqua lung is.

24:40

What's an aqua lung? It's scuba gear. Why

24:42

did you say scuba? I thought that was

24:45

more complicated. You're showing off. That's

24:47

true, I've been showing off as age. Yeah,

24:50

an aqua lung. Sorry. Yes.

24:53

Okay. So when you are diving, I almost

24:55

asked if you had a wetsuit and

25:03

I thought it's probably a simple way of answering if it's

25:05

cold or a wetsuit and if it's warm, you don't. But

25:07

do you? Yes, you always have

25:09

a wetsuit even if it's warm because wetsuits,

25:12

the really thin ones are

25:14

more hydrodynamic. So

25:17

it's much easier to swim with a wetsuit

25:19

on. You glide much faster. It

25:23

feels a little bit like mechanical cheating, but everybody's

25:25

wearing the wetsuit. But a

25:27

good wetsuit will make your dive times much

25:29

quicker. So yes, you're wearing

25:31

a wetsuit. Hands out or hands in gloves?

25:34

I like hands out because I like the feeling of water and

25:37

then fins or a monofin, a

25:40

lanyard to keep yourself attached to the

25:42

dive line in case something

25:45

really goes wrong, they can always retrieve the

25:47

dive line with you on it. And then

25:49

some people like masks, some people like fluid

25:51

goggles. Lots of people wear nose

25:53

clips, like they keep their nose tight so they can

25:55

equalize. I like wearing just a nose

25:57

clip and going for it. I don't need to

25:59

see. Much down there, there's

26:01

nothing to see. I was just going to ask that. Is

26:04

there anything down there that's just down there? Yes,

26:06

well, sometimes there's... There

26:09

are competition dice where you

26:11

see the bottom footage and you see sharks

26:13

surfing. Sometimes

26:16

they're out. I'm glad you're laughing at it.

26:18

Sharks are fine. What

26:21

do you mean sharks are fine? Listen, I

26:24

used to be a competitive freediver and I've never

26:26

swam into a shark, but I'm

26:28

now an underwater cameraman, a freediving cameraman, and

26:31

I dive with sharks all the time. They're

26:33

more afraid of us than we are of

26:35

them. I'd rather it should be. If you

26:38

stroke a shark, mate, if

26:40

you stroke a shark backwards, it's

26:42

fucking cutting your hand. No, it's not that

26:45

bad. It's just a bit

26:47

rough. Oh, I thought you'd

26:49

close your hand open. That's why

26:51

I'm so scared of them. That's why I don't

26:53

want to stroke a shark. Why do you like

26:55

sharks? Because they're beautiful. Yeah, I'll give you that.

26:57

They're so misunderstood.

27:00

Here we go. Okay,

27:03

so sharks kill what? 10 people a

27:05

year? If that? People

27:07

kill millions of sharks a year. Just

27:10

for the fins, like just for the fins who

27:12

are bycatch or as something like that. And they're

27:15

such an important part of

27:17

the ecosystem. They've been around for millions

27:19

of years. They're older than dinosaurs. You

27:21

know, they were there when

27:23

the dinosaurs were around and they're still around. Like

27:25

they're around for a reason. And when

27:27

you swim with them, you notice that there's

27:29

a presence about them and they're

27:32

majestic and they're freaking gorgeous. And they're not

27:34

scary. Like you have to be respectful of

27:36

them. Yeah, sure. Yeah, I'll try to come

27:38

forward. And what I most like about sharks

27:40

is there's an instinctive thing

27:43

around them. Like if you know how to

27:46

read them, you get to like a different

27:48

frequency again in your mind where it's just

27:50

like this primitive frequency of like, okay, I

27:52

had this experience in the Bahamas where we

27:55

were spear fishing and they

27:58

were fishing from a boat as well. So there were a lot of... of

28:00

reef sharks around and all of a sudden my

28:03

buddy points and I turn around and this big

28:05

shape swims right at me. And reef sharks never

28:07

swim right at you. They're really shy and they're

28:09

really, they were only around because there was dead

28:12

fish around. So this one came right at

28:14

me and I was like, oh, that's weird. So I point my

28:16

camera at it and I hold my ground and

28:18

he keeps coming right at me and I'm thinking, okay,

28:20

he's testing me. And then he turns around and I

28:22

see the stripes and it's like a

28:24

10 foot tiger shark. I got massive tiger shark.

28:27

But if you're used to them, you kind

28:29

of know like, okay, he's testing me. Like

28:31

he's not, he's just seeing

28:33

like, are you food or

28:36

are you a threat or are you something I

28:38

can mate with? That is pretty much

28:40

what he thinks. And what did he choose? Thank

28:43

God it was the third one. Those

28:45

three questions are exactly how Joe begins most

28:47

interactions, aren't they? Yeah.

28:52

Well, come to think of it, Tom. Yeah. And

28:55

that's fair, isn't it? So number one, is it food? Yep.

28:58

Number two. Are you a threat? Number

29:00

three. Can I mate with you? Can

29:02

I mate with you? Well, can I? Well,

29:05

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sponsor, get bonus content and grow

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the show today. Have

29:48

you ever had the chance to swim with sharks when you've

29:50

been playing in South Africa? Because you can

29:52

cage dive with sharks. Or when you're in a

29:55

cage, yeah. And how did you find that? Well,

29:57

I'm claustrophobic. So I found

29:59

it batship. fucking scary and then

30:02

one of the lads also like pretended

30:04

to you know when you nip

30:06

at someone's leg or just to wind them up so

30:10

then everyone started panicking there's about five or six

30:12

of us in this tiny little fucking cage everyone

30:14

started to panic and one of the lads then

30:16

hit his nose on the um he had these

30:18

goggles on hit his nose on the cage and

30:21

then i turn around and it's just pissing blood

30:23

on the thing and then i'm like what

30:25

the fuck you're pissing blood out your nose

30:27

we're in a fucking shark cage in the

30:30

waters get me out it's not a bit

30:32

of fun in the slightest but the

30:34

way in which dan's described the majesticness

30:37

of a shark and the ability

30:39

to understand them and

30:42

stand your ground against them you're like

30:44

oh that's quite like the sound of

30:46

sharks do you get a sense of sharks are beautiful creatures

30:48

aren't they and they are you're absolutely right if you get

30:50

to see them in the ocean they

30:52

have do have a presence they have a

30:54

beauty that maybe you don't appreciate if your

30:57

sole reference to sharks is a terrifying film

30:59

directed by stephen spillberg what about

31:01

your other interactions with aquatic life it's funny

31:03

that you mentioned that move because the first

31:05

time i did see sharks i

31:07

i heard the theme song it's like turn it

31:10

turn it and then

31:12

it completely got reversed because i thought

31:14

oh shark and i swam towards

31:16

it and i didn't realize like to that

31:18

shark and it wasn't that big a shark

31:20

i'm a massive creature swimming directly towards it

31:23

so he got freaked out and it swam

31:25

away so like i scared the shark and

31:27

it makes sense to to them we are

31:29

the monsters but it's that switch again like

31:32

it's a switch in mentality and a switch

31:34

in vibration i

31:36

guess um and a switch

31:38

in energy like if you realize okay to

31:40

most of them we are the threat like

31:43

we are the scary thing in the ocean

31:45

actually that changes your interaction and

31:47

i always see myself as a guest as well

31:49

but for example like i was in in mexico

31:52

filming for this documentary

31:54

and we were filming with crocodiles i've

31:56

never worked with a crocodile before i

31:58

don't i'm not particularly really good

32:00

at reading reptiles. Like

32:03

sharks, you can kind of like the pectoral fins point

32:05

in a certain way and the way they move, like

32:07

you can tell, like, okay, he's agitated, better get out

32:09

of the water, or this one is chill and relaxed,

32:11

you know. But I

32:13

didn't know how to read a crocodile. So

32:15

then it's kind of like you have to

32:17

trust your own instincts, trust the guide that

32:19

you're with. I trust the fact that like

32:21

a lot of my colleagues have filmed crocodiles

32:24

before, and they haven't been eaten, so.

32:28

Like knock on wood, hopefully I won't get eaten either.

32:31

But it's like, yeah, it's reading, trying to read

32:33

the animal, and I really like

32:35

getting inside of that part of your brain

32:37

where you can kind of relate to not

32:39

just other human beings, but

32:42

like I can relate to my dogs, and I

32:44

can relate to apparently a crocodile sometimes as well.

32:47

Because there was one crocodile who was really mellow

32:49

and kind of afraid of us, and then there

32:51

was like this one boisterous teenage boy who was

32:53

kind of like, and

32:55

then walking towards it over the sea floor, going

32:57

like, okay, I

32:59

will respect you and I'll back off. Like

33:02

I didn't stand my ground there, because it's

33:04

sort of like, like he's obviously a little

33:06

bit too cocky and let him win this

33:08

battle. Which creature of the deep jet would

33:10

you most like to have a close up?

33:13

I want to see some whales. Have

33:15

you done whales? Yeah. Are they like

33:18

unbelievable? Yes, they are. Have you been

33:20

inside one? Yeah. I

33:23

think. Do you know, I kind of, I don't

33:25

know a person, but I know a person who

33:28

knows a person who got like swallowed by

33:30

wellness, spat out. That's

33:32

a strange dream. And it's the highlight of their

33:34

life, yeah. But the highlight of my life was

33:36

like just swimming with them. But I always make

33:38

sure that the animal knows that I'm there. So

33:42

the way you approach animals is you don't approach

33:44

them from behind. So you try and get in

33:46

front or to the side of them. And

33:48

then like getting into somebody's face,

33:51

for humans and all

33:53

animals, that's very confrontational.

33:56

So it's mostly a sideways kind of thing. So with

33:59

the will. We saw it at like

34:01

10 meters and was just kind of resting

34:03

there. So you approach it

34:05

from the side and you kind of request

34:07

permission to can I

34:09

get a little bit closer and can I get a little bit clear

34:11

and and you can tell

34:13

like they were just resting and they

34:16

didn't mind. Can you hear anything when you're

34:18

down there? Yeah they thank. That's

34:21

gorgeous. The first time I experienced

34:23

wheels was like 10 years ago but

34:26

I only heard their songs and like

34:28

because sound travels really far underwater right

34:30

it travels for miles and miles so

34:32

they were probably miles and miles away

34:35

but as soon as you dived below a certain

34:37

depth it would bounce around

34:39

there and you could hear them and

34:41

that kind of like It sounds a

34:44

little bit melancholy doesn't it? It sounds

34:47

and you instantly you just hang there and go

34:49

like oh. Maybe they are sad maybe like maybe

34:51

they don't like the water. It's like I'm wet.

34:53

And yeah. They're like I'm sick

34:55

of it. Yeah my fins are all pruney. Yeah.

34:58

Do you find that just on the topic of breathing

35:00

there and how calming breathing can be and I asked

35:02

you at the start which came first your character or

35:05

freediving. How has your chosen

35:07

sport changed you as a person in terms of

35:09

changing your outlook? Do you mind if I get

35:11

deep on this one? Please do. Oh fuck yeah.

35:14

Before I started freediving I was

35:18

quite a depressed kind of person.

35:20

I hadn't really left

35:22

my house for like three or four years

35:24

because like my

35:26

father died and I kind of spiraled

35:29

into this depression and because of freediving

35:31

like I found something that I could

35:33

grab onto. I was kind of spiraling

35:36

down and I found something solid like I

35:38

found something within myself that I thought like

35:40

I love this and I

35:42

grabbed onto it because I thought I

35:44

need something positive in my life

35:47

and so I started training quite hard and

35:49

because you train quite hard you get more

35:51

healthy physically and because you train quite hard

35:53

you also have to get a

35:55

better diet which helps with your mentality as well

35:57

but the most important thing and I didn't really

35:59

I realized it at the time is I

36:01

started, like freediving is a communal thing. Like

36:03

you cannot free dive by yourself. If you

36:06

free dive by yourself, you're like, you're gonna

36:08

die at some point. So you're really dependent

36:10

on your community. So because

36:12

I started free diving, I started

36:14

entering this community and there were

36:16

like-minded people and I started feeling

36:18

a part of something. And

36:20

I kind of realized, okay, like depression

36:23

is a large part of depression is

36:25

feeling disconnected from everything. And

36:28

I found a connection. First to

36:31

this sport and to

36:33

being underwater and a part of myself that

36:35

was aquatic, but then also more

36:38

importantly to a community. And because I

36:41

found that community and that connection to

36:43

them, I wouldn't say that I'm now

36:45

completely depression free because there's also a

36:47

genetic component to it, but like I

36:50

found some tools to deal with that

36:52

depression. And because then

36:54

I also found photography together

36:57

with freediving, like as another

36:59

passion that gave me two quite solid

37:01

things. And I found my wife through free

37:03

diving. So then you have like your

37:06

sport and that connection. I found another

37:08

passion in photography and a creative outlet,

37:10

which is really, really important to have

37:12

a like to make something and to

37:14

do something with your feelings. And

37:17

then have a partner as well, somebody you

37:19

can share all that with. And thank

37:21

God she is practical because I'm barely a functional

37:23

human being, but like she can do all those

37:25

things. So like that tripods

37:28

kind of allowed me to build something

37:31

and build an actual life and

37:33

make a living out of free diving as well. So

37:37

yeah, I think without free diving, I

37:39

would still be around, but I would be

37:42

like almost 50 year olds. I would probably

37:44

be 50 pounds heavier. So I think, yeah,

37:46

like I don't owe free diving my life,

37:48

but it gave me a life. It gave

37:50

me a worthwhile life. That's amazing. Thank you

37:52

so much for sharing that with us. My

37:55

pleasure, Joe. And

37:57

the way you spoke about it and the passion that you've got for it and

37:59

what it's given you. I just love it.

38:01

It kind of makes me want to learn how to swim. Do

38:03

you not want to go down to... Come down

38:05

to Cornwall. The Cornwall to... Everything Dan has

38:07

said here makes me think, Joe, we need to spend how long do

38:09

we need to come down? For a week or a weekend? It's a

38:11

weekend. It's a two-day course. What do

38:14

we get down there, Joe? I can't swim. I'll

38:16

be sure to swim. Well, here's the thing. It's

38:18

practical to learn how to swim and you have

38:20

to kind of be able to swim 200 meters

38:22

unassisted. But that's a good thing to do in

38:24

general. 200 meters is not that long. It's like

38:27

eight lengths of swimming. Fucking hell! No, no, unassisted.

38:29

You can breathe. You don't have to... Oh! Just

38:32

underwater. You can swim like a... You can't do

38:34

one width of the fucking 25 meter pool. But

38:37

you do get into pools. Yeah, but I

38:40

take the kids to their swimming lessons. Yeah. And

38:44

it's shallow at this end, but then it

38:46

gets quite deep to like... I mean, it's

38:48

a shallow end and a deep end. Yeah,

38:50

it's in every pool. Yeah. You

38:53

do fucking... This one's particularly

38:55

deep. And usually

38:57

the lessons done in the shallow bit. I've told you

38:59

this before. When I... Then this

39:02

one time, it was my turn to take the

39:04

kids in. And it was the

39:06

first time they were going to take them to the deep end

39:08

on their noodles. And I started doing

39:10

it and I was struggling and I was pulling my

39:13

son down. He was three at the

39:15

time. I was pulling him underwater trying to survive

39:17

to get up. So then

39:19

I got sent back to the shallow end and

39:21

the swimming instructor came and took Jasper off me.

39:24

And she went along with all the other mums.

39:27

And I was just stood in the shallow end

39:29

like, okay, I'll just wait here for you to

39:31

finish your thing. So... Do you want to

39:33

learn how to swim? Um... I'm

39:36

trying to think, do I need to? I

39:38

go in the sea. I don't ever go

39:40

deep enough to... I go sea bobbing. I

39:42

love going to the sea, but... And

39:44

then you wear a wetsuit and you don't have to... No, I

39:47

just go in my pants. You're in pants. I

39:49

like the cold. I chase that cold rush.

39:51

Yes. And then... And one time actually

39:53

a seal popped up. I shit myself. I was like,

39:56

oh my God, it kept just popping up randomly.

39:58

With those big eyes. Oh my God. What

40:00

the fuck? Are they good? But yeah,

40:02

I'll go down with you and once you hold

40:04

your breath, I'll try and hold my breath

40:06

on the sand. I

40:09

think you'd love it, Jan. I think you'd love

40:11

it too. Like the way you described the cold dips

40:13

in the morning and the breathing and that, like it's

40:15

like that but more intense. I love it because it's

40:17

also, the ocean's just

40:20

beautiful. Yeah. I

40:22

go down there and just look out at

40:24

it and I'm talking about an ocean down

40:26

at Eastbourne, which is full of fucking sewage

40:28

and shit. And yeah, I still, I'm like,

40:30

this is incredible and vast. So God knows

40:32

what you've seen and some of the beauties

40:35

you've seen. Yeah, but like in Cornwall

40:37

as well, it's beautiful down there. There's

40:39

kelp everywhere and it's like

40:41

a spider grabs and lots of fish and,

40:43

but it's not about that so much. Like

40:46

the sensations, like what you described with your,

40:48

which are cold dips, it's kind of like

40:51

that, but like intensify it times 10. Like

40:53

it's, you get this connection to the sea and

40:55

you get on its wavelength and you kind of

40:58

dissolve into it. So you're kind of becoming one

41:00

with this powerful, powerful entity. And you don't have

41:02

to go really deep for that. I've had experiences

41:04

like that at five or six meters where you

41:07

just hang there and you kind of get

41:09

rocked by the waves and. This does

41:12

sound good. It's so good. We

41:14

should go. We should definitely go. I've never

41:16

done anything like what Dan

41:18

has described, but one of my happiest

41:21

ever moments was with

41:23

Conkers and we were

41:25

in Southeast Asia and we were just snorkeling

41:27

the middle of nowhere. And all

41:29

you would do is you just hold your breath.

41:31

So you block the snorkel off and we'd swim down as

41:34

far as we could with flippers. And we would

41:36

do little loops around each other and clown around.

41:39

And it was this ecstatic experience.

41:41

Like it was amazing just messing around

41:43

deep underwater. Freedom, right? Complete freedom, like

41:45

three dimensional freedom. You can go up,

41:47

down, left, right. It's like nothing else

41:49

on earth. Like you're free of gravity.

41:54

This episode is sponsored by the

41:56

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42:01

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and grow the show today. So

43:00

you spoke about how beautiful Cornwall is. You've

43:03

semi-convinced us to come down to have a

43:05

couple of days course. But what's your favorite

43:07

place that you've dived in? What's the most

43:09

beautiful place that you've been to? Oh,

43:11

that's a couple. There's one place on earth

43:13

where you kind of feel like if

43:16

there is a god, he or she came down

43:18

and went like, you shall free dive here and

43:20

put his finger down and created a hole just

43:22

off the beach in the Bahamas, white

43:24

sandy beach in on the cliche,

43:26

the azure water, white sandy beach, palm trees, and

43:29

then there's a hole just off the beach. Like

43:31

if you throw a rock, it will sink 200

43:33

meters. They call it Dean's

43:35

Blue Hole. It's on Long Island in the Bahamas.

43:38

The best free diving competition in the world is

43:40

held there, vertical blue. Every year they set world

43:42

records there. It's perfect. And it's really beautiful for

43:44

me as a photographer because I photograph that

43:46

event every year. Like it's gorgeous because

43:48

there's a different view from everywhere. Like

43:50

it's a 20, 25 meter long hole,

43:52

20 meters wide. So

43:55

there's enough room for like a couple of ropes and

43:58

people just dive on into it. It's really

44:01

deep. I wanted to Google this place. Hang

44:03

on. I need to see some Dean's blue

44:06

hole Yeah, Dean's blue always hang on. Are

44:08

you it's a windup if I Google Dean's

44:10

blue hole You

44:14

get smurfs sex Thomas

44:18

do you see it? Oh, we're gonna start in

44:20

Cornwall and we're going to Bahamas next year. Yeah

44:23

That's my photo is it? Yeah, is that actually Yeah,

44:27

it's Anna. Yeah. Yeah, who's Anna and as

44:29

an open booty go who I swam with

44:31

crocodiles with So that links

44:33

back to describe this picture for our listeners would

44:35

it look at our social thing? It looks so

44:38

clear It looks like a

44:41

mountain to be honest with

44:43

you and it looks like someone is actually

44:45

just jumping through the air The light that's

44:47

coming through it doesn't look like you're underwater.

44:49

You sure that's underwater. Yeah. Oh my

44:52

god So I'm like

44:54

15 16 meters down there. So

44:56

that's it. Yeah, so I'm going underneath that

44:58

lip Look at how perfect that is. How

45:00

was that Matt? Like how would you describe

45:02

that? Yeah, I would describe that

45:04

as a hole It's

45:07

like a it's like, you know,

45:10

the low what low worth coves. Mmm, you

45:12

know, it's like got a little bit of a circular

45:15

semicircle hard one Looking

45:17

at hard moon here. So not for

45:20

moon So it's a bit shaped like a bottle isn't

45:22

it and you see the narrow top end and then

45:24

it as soon as you go Down it widens

45:26

up Why where's that

45:28

whole come from? So it used to be a

45:31

cave probably a cavern because and that hole that

45:33

you see is a Collapsed roof

45:35

of that cavern and that was

45:37

probably caused by that same Asteroid

45:40

that caused the dinosaurs to go extinct.

45:42

So there's another connection for you. Yeah,

45:44

you talk about these dinosaurs I

45:48

want to go there then the first time that I this

45:50

isn't the first time I've heard your suit and tones the

45:52

first time I heard it was on

45:54

a lovely podcast called oceans life under

45:56

water It's made

45:58

in collaboration with Greenpeace and it's celebrates the beauty

46:00

of our oceans but also obviously touches on

46:03

some of the great damage that we are

46:05

doing to our oceans. So as someone

46:08

who spends a large portion of his

46:10

life submerged in the ocean and appreciates

46:12

perhaps more than anyone else

46:14

who might bump into Joe all the wonders

46:16

of the ocean, how do

46:18

you feel about the state of our oceans at the moment? I

46:21

used to be more depressed about it because I keep

46:24

seeing plastic everywhere and that to me

46:26

that's such an affront it's kind of

46:28

like going to into Westman's more

46:47

of it like even on those beautiful beaches

46:49

in the Bahamas plastic ends up

46:51

washing up there and it's gross

46:54

but then I was on a

46:56

trip to Mexico. Mexico has saved

46:59

my life many a time but they

47:01

had this place there where the fishing

47:03

industry was going a little bit mad

47:06

and they did dynamite fishing and that kind of

47:08

stuff and they kind of destroyed

47:11

their own economy and they caught it

47:13

just in time they said like okay

47:15

we are like the fishermen kind of

47:17

all decided we are destroying our reefs

47:19

here and we should stop doing this

47:21

and instead they started focusing on ecotourism

47:24

because it was one of those places

47:26

where like there was a really large

47:28

schools of fish was gathering there there's

47:31

what they call a cleaning station where

47:33

a bull sharks come and these little

47:35

what do you call them? Little

47:37

creatures and a clean the bull sharks

47:40

it's a fascinating thing like it's a

47:42

type of shrimp that only lives in

47:44

certain places and fish go there to

47:46

get cleaned. Car

47:49

wash. Yeah like a car wash shrimp.

47:51

You come here mate I'll clean you

47:54

all your shit and eat it yeah and then

47:56

off you go again. So you can swim there

47:58

with bull sharks and be perfectly safe. because the

48:00

sharks are not in feeding mode at all. They're there

48:02

to, you know, get cleaned.

48:04

And it was such a successful way

48:07

of doing business for them that

48:09

they completely switched from being fishery

48:11

to like being eco mindful and

48:14

eco tourism. They've restricted

48:16

the amount of people that can go

48:18

there and the whole habitat is flourishing.

48:20

So you can kind of see like

48:22

people are beginning to understand like bull

48:25

sharks and sharks in general are worth

48:27

more alive than they are dead. That's a bit

48:29

of a sad reality, but it's like at

48:31

least it saves them. And then you can

48:33

see the same in Dominica with sperm

48:35

whales, for example. You can

48:38

go swim with sperm whales and it

48:40

will cost you 10,000, but like you

48:42

have the experience of a lifetime and

48:44

that saves the sperm whales and that, you know, and

48:47

that allows research to be done on sperm whales. And so

48:50

I'm beginning, like there's more hope than

48:52

I had five years ago because

48:54

the plastic pollution is still a major problem and

48:57

you know, oil in the sea is

48:59

still a major problem. Like that's still a major problem,

49:01

but the economic system is

49:04

also giving us a little bit

49:06

of reason for hope. I could

49:08

just sit and listen to you speak for

49:11

hours. I just love it.

49:13

I also love how passionately you've spoken about

49:16

your connection with the ocean and

49:18

it's gone fucking here

49:20

and everywhere actually when I think about it. You

49:23

started off doing this free diving

49:25

sport and I'm trying to

49:27

work out what the fuck this sport is

49:29

and how that go to then the roller

49:31

coaster or what's that thing they

49:33

do in Australian seas. Surfing.

49:37

No, the current that Nemo gets

49:39

trapped in. Oh. Oh yeah. Okay,

49:41

the current that Nemo gets trapped in, I

49:43

get trapped in that and then we go

49:46

around talking about different whales and I

49:49

just love it and the connection to the sea. I

49:51

think you're brilliant. Do you think you'd give it a shot or

49:53

do you think that that's one step

49:56

too far from? I think I'd have

49:58

to try and overcome my claustrophobia. as

50:00

well because that just... Glossophobia is... I know

50:03

but the similar feeling... Is it the wet

50:05

suit or the... No, not

50:08

the wet suit. I get a similar feeling on

50:10

my chest of holding my breath. Yeah. When

50:13

I do, when I start panicking about going into

50:15

a scanner or a small thing. So if

50:17

I take copious amounts of sleepers

50:21

and painkillers, then I will

50:23

come free diving with you to about

50:25

four meters and then you'll have to

50:27

bring me back up. Tom's still

50:29

down there looking for my watch

50:31

that has exploded because he was only able

50:34

to go three meters deep. Where can we

50:36

see you more and hear from you more?

50:38

Have you got like social channels? What? Yeah.

50:41

I need more of you in my life. That's what I'm saying.

50:44

I thought that you started following me on Insta. Guilty. Yeah.

50:47

Oh, is he right? He's sliding into his DM. Oh,

50:50

yeah. Thank you. So yeah, it's that weird name

50:52

with the double A. So Dan Veruven, that kind

50:54

of works against me because people always search

50:57

for Dan Veruven, the A.M.

50:59

Dan. Dan Veruven. Who's

51:01

the film director? That might help. Veruven the

51:03

film director? Related? Sadly

51:05

not. Oh. And yeah, Insta, YouTube, that

51:07

kind of stuff. Dan, thank you so much for coming on, mate. You're brilliant.

51:09

Thank you, Dan. Thank you, Dan. Thank

51:12

you, Dan. We never got round to asking you to hold

51:14

your breath. So

51:27

why don't you take a moment

51:29

now to take a big breath in and

51:33

hold your breath for as long as you can because

51:35

I am sick and tired of your jibber jabber and

51:39

I'm going to do the outro. Dan was

51:41

wonderful. Hang on. I started. Yeah.

51:44

Are you timing me? You meant to not break

51:46

me. Can you time me? Pretend we're going through a tunnel. I

51:48

like that game. I said that the kids. Okay.

51:52

Ready? Hang on. Ready? Oh,

51:55

what are you doing? I didn't get this much breath. What

51:57

are you doing? Why are you fingering your stomach? Go.

52:03

Yeah, I thought Dan was brilliant. Absolutely

52:05

loved him. His energy, I love the

52:07

way he started. He kept speaking

52:10

about the energy and connection to the war

52:12

and I could relate to that

52:14

a lot. Yeah, Joe, I

52:17

think the same. I think he was really

52:19

good. Oh, no, no,

52:21

no. That

52:24

is a disgrace, Joe. Sorry.

52:27

You did 15 seconds. I would have done more. By

52:30

the way, Joe, you know, I mentioned that podcast that

52:32

I heard Dan on. Yeah. It

52:35

is called Oceans Life Underwater. It is

52:37

an immersive journey beneath the waves. So

52:39

Crowd Network have partnered with Greenpeace

52:42

to make a 12-part storytelling podcast

52:44

all about the oceans and the

52:46

mind-blown life within them. There

52:49

are episodes about things like

52:52

pirates, whales, Antarctica, mountains under

52:54

the waves, like Galapagos

52:56

Islands and Octopuses slash

52:59

Octopi. It's hosted

53:01

by wildlife filmmaker and broadcaster Hannah

53:03

Stittfall. And she meets some of

53:05

the world's best ocean storytellers, marine

53:08

scientists, fishermen, freedivers

53:11

like Dan and people

53:13

from island communities who are on the

53:15

front line of climate change. Joe,

53:17

it's lovely to listen to. It's really beautiful.

53:20

And you will learn lots too. Just search

53:22

for Oceans Life Underwater.

53:25

I am all over that.

53:28

Blub blub blub blub. I'm going to

53:30

get that wrapped around my ears. We will know

53:32

how to speak. We will know how to speak.

53:35

Go and wash your finger before that

53:37

comes anywhere near me. No,

53:43

I'm not using my finger in your mouth. You're using your

53:45

finger in your mouth. Good

53:48

bye everybody. Have a great day. Crowd

54:04

Network, a place

54:06

where you belong.