0:00

At age 14, I was given, you know, opiate prescription medication.

0:05

I mean, all I had to do was ask. At some point, I didn't even have to ask.

0:09

They would just give me prescription after prescription after prescription.

0:13

I have had 23 knee surgeries, and I have all the records to prove it,

0:16

so I can walk into any doctor and say, here's my right here,

0:20

and I get it every time. And I hate that I know that.

0:26

Let's be honest about recovery. the rewards the

0:29

challenges let's talk about our failures we are

0:33

flawed people after all let's challenge

0:36

the stigmas that weigh us down because while most of us are looked at few of

0:41

us are seen let's talk about addiction and how Christ overcomes our weaknesses

0:46

because we are loved because we are loved are Because we are loved.

0:55

Because we are loved. Hi.

1:06

My name is Jennifer and this is my story. At age 14, I had to have a knee surgery

1:11

and I was introduced to prescription pain medication at a very young age.

1:15

And I had to have multiple surgeries followed by that. So I was given an unending

1:20

amount of narcotic pain medication.

1:22

Before I knew it, I was addicted to it. I've been through several treatment centers over the years.

1:28

And by the grace of God, my last treatment center was two years ago.

1:32

I finally surrendered and gave my life to Christ. And I've never been the same since.

1:40

Hey, and welcome back to the Jesus Loves Addicts podcast. My name is Katherine

1:44

and this is my co-host, Paul. Today, we're going to be talking with Jennifer Gaspard. Jennifer's story may

1:50

sound a little different, but also familiar to others.

1:53

Jennifer got addicted to prescription painkillers after having to have a surgery

1:57

at a young age and then multiple surgeries following.

2:00

And this is how she's going to tell us today how she found her way out.

2:04

Thank you for coming. You're welcome. So, you want to tell us? Yeah. So, at age 14, I had an injury in high school

2:11

that I had to have surgery. It was supposed to be simple outpatient surgery, and it was.

2:17

And about a week later, I started having problems, ended back up in the hospital,

2:20

and stayed there for a couple weeks.

2:23

Ended up having to have 23 knee surgeries in total.

2:27

Over what time span was that? Like 23 surgeries is a lot. Were you just in surgery

2:31

after surgery after surgery, or... Kind of, yep. So, I had 23 knee surgeries, and what they were trying to do was

2:37

prevent a knee replacement. And by doing that, they tried all these surgeries, these, oh gosh, what is it called?

2:45

Orthoscopic or something like that. That's the extent of my medical knowledge

2:48

right there. I was thinking, I was hoping he had an answer because I don't.

2:52

They tried experimental surgery, you know, all these things,

2:55

and no one wanted to do a knee replacement because of my age.

2:58

So I had multiple surgeries from the age of 14 until 24.

3:04

At 25, I had my first knee replacement. I found a doctor who did my knee replacement.

3:09

And then about a year later, I had to have my opposite knee replaced.

3:12

Placed well in all that time at age 14 I was

3:15

given you know opiate prescription medication and

3:19

that was before the big you know opioid epidemic right that

3:22

was really a thing so I mean all I had to

3:25

do was ask at some point I didn't even have to ask they would

3:28

just give me prescription after prescription after prescription so before I

3:33

knew it I was addicted to it I couldn't function without it not physically not

3:37

mentally so yeah my addiction started at 14 I was probably Probably about 22

3:43

when I went to my first treatment center.

3:46

It was like a 30-day treatment center. It didn't work.

3:50

My family, I grew up with a great, you know, great loving home,

3:53

great family, great childhood. You know, we attended, we grew up in church. We attended church every Sunday.

3:59

But at some point they started noticing. So at age 25, I went to my first treatment

4:05

center, Home of Grace in Mississippi. I loved it. I dove right in. I, you know, got so much out of it.

4:12

And I thought I had it stayed three months and I thought I had it all figured

4:15

out and went home after my first treatment and I didn't have it all figured out.

4:21

It wasn't very long until I was back using again.

4:24

I was able to hide that from my family for a couple more years.

4:28

And how long would you say that you were able to stay sober after completing

4:31

that program? About a year. Okay. About a year. I'll be honest. I was expecting you to say even less time. So. Mm-hmm.

4:39

I think Paul was, too. Let me ask you a question, though, actually,

4:43

before you dive into the recovery aspect, because I really want to hear that part of it.

4:47

But I'm curious because your story is, I think, unique to this show so far, right?

4:53

Most people have talked about getting introduced to it through social means and this.

4:57

And so here you're getting introduced to it through the medical field,

5:01

which, by the way, is hugely common, right?

5:04

And so I think it's such a necessary topic. Like, but at that young age of 14,

5:09

you're given these painkillers.

5:13

For you, was there kind of an instant liking to that or did you not like it?

5:18

What was, you know, or did you like, oh, this is not bad.

5:21

Like, what was your reaction to getting this medicine?

5:23

So I didn't even know what a pain pill was. Like, I didn't know what a, you know, a Percocet.

5:27

I didn't know what any of it was, but it was almost an instant like,

5:31

where has this feeling been? So, yeah, I would say it was almost instantly. Yeah. So, sorry,

5:40

that's enough. So, you had this great childhood. So, part of it can just be the fact that it's a high, right? That's a good feeling.

5:47

But when you say it the way you said it, my question is, was there,

5:51

did it offer you any kind of peripheral relief?

5:54

So, what I mean by that is here, I'm taking this for my knee,

5:57

but lo and behold, at 14, young girl, you might be going through some social.

6:02

So was there anything else that all of a sudden this felt like an escape from

6:05

or just strictly, hey, this is a good feeling? Yeah, that was it. It was, hey, this is a good feeling. And like I said,

6:10

I didn't even have to ask. Like, it was just there. The next prescription was just waiting because who

6:14

wouldn't give someone who was having, you know, 18, 19, 23 knee surgeries,

6:18

who wouldn't give them that? Prescriptions you know right so were you on

6:23

those then throughout the entirety then of

6:26

your high school career from that point on you were just you stay did it worsen

6:30

did you by the time you graduated high school were you already at higher doses

6:33

i mean it's absolutely yeah yeah i went up you know higher and higher then i

6:38

eventually started adding other things in there you know i've started saying

6:41

i had anxiety and that you know and got really anything i wanted at that point point.

6:46

So that's another thing. So it sounds to me like, and correct me if I'm wrong,

6:51

you were playing doctors, right?

6:53

Because you were saying, hey, I've got anxiety because you knew that would get you something.

6:56

Was that intentional at that point? Did you learn how to get what you wanted through them?

7:01

Eventually. You did? Yeah, over time, for sure, I did.

7:04

So I've always worked in the medical field. So after I graduated high school,

7:09

I started working in hospital, hospital and I was working with my doctor.

7:14

So it was just like I asked and I received kind of thing, which, you know.

7:19

You were working with the doctor that was prescribing these medications to you.

7:23

Yeah. So I look back now and I'm like, man, that was crazy. But that was my life.

7:27

That was my reality that I could tell her anything in this world.

7:31

And, you know, I knew I'd I get it.

7:34

Yeah. Did anyone ever challenge it at all? My mother.

7:39

It would be a mom. Yeah. Yeah. Did she challenge it with you?

7:42

Did she challenge it with you or did she challenge the doctor on it? A little bit of both.

7:47

A little bit of both. A little bit of both. Yeah. Yeah. What was that met with?

7:51

I ended up going to treatment and that was it. That was my first time I came

7:56

to Mississippi to Home of Grace. Was the doctor receptive to that feedback or were defensive about it?

8:03

I would say a little of both. She was defensive. And now I can look back and say it's not her fault.

8:09

It's my fault. Now I can own my part in it. But at the time,

8:11

I'm like, yeah, it's her fault. But I can look back now and say, no, I had. No, that was me.

8:17

It was me. I asked. It was me. So, yeah.

8:21

So, sorry, one follow-up question to that, and I promise I'm going to let you

8:24

tell your story here, but it's, you know, again, this aspect of it,

8:27

being attached to the medical realm is really interesting and,

8:32

again, so powerful and so prevalent. But at a young age, right, so where also illicit drugs are available to you,

8:40

I'm almost hearing that you never had to go outside of the medical field because

8:46

it just was, there was never a shortage for you.

8:50

If you needed it, somebody was there to give it. So you never had to,

8:53

say, have a street dealer or have something. Okay.

8:57

Well, I have a question on that. And was this something you just kept very private?

9:03

Or did you have friends that you shared them with that y'all talked about?

9:06

Did you talk about this with anybody? Or was this just you? I mean, I

9:11

would say it was just me until my family intervened and it was confronted.

9:17

Then, you know, all of my family and all of my friends knew that I'd go to treatment

9:21

and I'd come home and I would do great for a while.

9:23

And then I would eventually slip back. So it was like this back and forth for

9:27

years. But I never used with friends, never used with my friends.

9:32

I would find people that, you know, were living the same life,

9:36

but my friends and my family, I mean, never, they always, you know,

9:40

would fight on my behalf. And yeah.

9:44

Do you think it hindered your adolescence?

9:50

Like in looking back, would you say it hindered your adolescent experience? experience or?

9:55

Yeah, I think so. I mean, I know that I've done everything later in life.

9:59

You know, I moved out later in life and, you know, I've done all these things later.

10:03

Like I said, up until age 24, I was still having surgery.

10:07

So I didn't get to do the things that everyone else did at 18.

10:10

You know, I graduated high school in a wheelchair. I didn't get to experience all that. I experienced it later and I experienced

10:17

it really hard. Yeah. Yeah.

10:19

So kind of a combination of the reality of these injuries, right?

10:26

I mean, that's a reality. That alone hindered some.

10:28

And then also, I think, you know, or I'm guessing you're also referring to the

10:33

effect of the opiates, right? I mean, that also kind of hinders your experience.

10:37

So you said your last surgery then was 20 what?

10:42

I'd say about 27. Oh, 27. Okay. But your first treatment was before that.

10:51

Correct. I was 25 when I went into my first treatment.

10:56

But then after I got out of treatment, I had to have another surgery.

11:00

I had to have knee replacement on the opposite knee.

11:03

So it was back surgery and yeah.

11:06

And so more prescriptions. I'm wondering, because in taking the responsibility...

11:14

Come out of treatment, go into this additional surgery.

11:20

Was this still the doctor you've been working with? Did you let future doctors

11:26

know that, like, especially after you've been through treatment,

11:30

I'm assuming, had you admitted that you had a problem at this point,

11:33

or were you just doing this to check it off the list for your mom?

11:36

No, you know, when I first got out of treatment, the first time,

11:39

you know, I was all on board and I would tell, but at some point I slipped up

11:43

on my own, even before the medical. So at that point, you know, I wasn't interested in telling them that I was,

11:49

you know, an addict or in recovery.

11:52

Okay. Yeah. So you anticipated where I was going. You didn't inform the doctor

11:55

of that. So you were, okay, I gotcha. When you said you'd already slipped up, how?

12:01

Like, if you didn't seek outside meds or from other sources,

12:06

you said you had already messed up, so then you didn't tell the doctor.

12:10

So I had a family doctor and I had an orthopedic. Okay.

12:13

So, you know. You'd already gone to see another doctor. Got it. Okay. Yeah.

12:20

Yeah. Prior to the surgery. Correct.

12:23

How long had you, I'm sorry. No, no, go ahead. How long had you stayed sober

12:26

before you made that phone call and said, hey, I need something?

12:31

I would say it was almost a year. Okay. Yeah. Did anything happen? No.

12:36

No. You just made the decision. There was no hesitation. I just, impulse decision.

12:44

Yeah. Did it just come up like you were somewhere and somebody just happened,

12:50

oh no, this is all doctors for you. That's right. Yeah, it's all doctors. So you just, okay.

12:55

So you made an impulse decision to essentially present something to a doctor to get what you wanted.

13:03

Is that fair to say? At some point at the end of that year, you thought.

13:07

I'm going to go to a doctor. Yeah. Okay. Well, I think we also hear,

13:11

and maybe it was like that for you, people that have relapsed.

13:17

It's usually because they stopped doing. That's one of the first questions.

13:21

If someone's coming in out of a relapse, what did you stop doing?

13:25

Did you stop calling your mentor or your sponsor?

13:29

Did you stop going to meetings? Did you stop working steps? Did you stop going

13:32

to church and celebrate recovery? All of those things.

13:36

Or even did you ever start doing that? I had not the first treatment.

13:39

I had never started that. You know, I'm from a small town in South Louisiana where there is not a big recovery community.

13:46

So I never, I mean, I attended church, but I never hadn't started any of that.

13:51

So, you know, right when you get out of treatment, spotlight's on you and everybody's

13:54

like, you're doing a great job, good job. So you don't think about it, but then that dies down and it's just you again, you know.

14:01

Without a recovery community. Correct. Okay.

14:06

So went to treatment, had surgery again, came back to treatment at the home

14:12

of Grace, Mississippi a second time. This time I did something different. I didn't go back home. I didn't go back

14:18

home to the same town, the same, you know, same doctors, same faces.

14:21

It was all too familiar. I stayed a little extra at treatment the second time,

14:26

stayed a little bit longer, and I chose to go to a sober living house here locally

14:32

in Mississippi, and I lived there for a year.

14:36

Got a roommate, you know, moved out on my own, lived in Mississippi for about

14:41

almost five years. I lived here in Mississippi sober.

14:44

I was working back at the sober living where I lived.

14:47

It was great. And I just, over time, I quit what you said.

14:53

I quit doing all the meetings, you know, all the things.

14:56

I was real involved in the sober living house that I had worked in.

15:00

But at some point, I just fell back from that. And it was falling back from

15:05

that. And almost in a sense, isolating again.

15:08

See, I had almost five years sober that time. It was isolating again.

15:13

And then I had medical issues that, you know. What's your name again? Nope.

15:20

So I had a little bit, a few back issues and, you know, was given pain medication.

15:27

And then I fell and broke my ankle and had to have surgery on my ankle.

15:31

And at the sober living house that I was at, you know, I was told just because

15:36

I was in recovery didn't mean I had to suffer.

15:39

So I was told I could, you know, take pain medication.

15:42

And before I left that hospital, I knew it was game on. You know,

15:46

it woke up whatever that was inside of me.

15:49

But I had the green light from them that, you know, I could take this.

15:52

You had permission. I had permission.

15:56

You know, they tried to walk me through it and guide me through it,

15:58

but at some point I quit being honest. You know, I did my own thing.

16:02

And for a long time, up until I went back to my final treatment,

16:07

I blamed them. You know, it was their fault. Now I can look back and say, no, it wasn't. They did their part,

16:14

but you stopped doing yours. Correct. I can look back now and, I mean, even going into that treatment,

16:19

I was like, it's not my fault. It's their fault. And I held a lot of, you know, I just kept them at a distance.

16:26

And over time, I realized that it wasn't their fault.

16:30

I'm a grown woman. You know, I made that decision on my own.

16:34

You know, that is a, and I'm not going to, it's a troubling piece of advice though, right?

16:40

Because we never, so let me ask you a question about that.

16:43

Because you're bringing up so many interesting avenues that we have not gone down before.

16:50

In retrospect, and you know, you may not be able to answer this other than speculation,

16:56

right? But looking back... There was an injury, something happened with your back. Do you think you could

17:03

have, had they not said that, do you think that you could have done some lesser

17:07

alternative and gotten through that time just doing physical therapy,

17:13

ibuprofen, something, you know, lesser than.

17:16

Opiates. Opiates. Yeah. You do. I think so. Yeah. Yeah.

17:20

Thank you for saying that, because I do think that that oftentimes,

17:23

even in the recovery community, that advice is given far too soon.

17:28

And we forget, you know, I like the way that you that you put it,

17:32

that when you were in the hospital, something was awakened.

17:36

And, you know, one mistake a lot of addicts make of all walks is they'll get

17:42

a lot of time behind them and then begin to think, I can do this socially now. I've got it mastered.

17:49

But the reality is that pathway in the brain is, yeah.

17:53

That was it. I was playing the part. I was, you know, I was in recovery.

17:58

I had almost five years that, you know, I was working at a sober living house. I was attending church.

18:03

I've done all the things. I don't need meetings anymore. I don't,

18:06

you know, I didn't need it is what I thought.

18:10

So like I said, I started to isolate and I did still need all the things.

18:14

Even almost five years out, I needed all the things.

18:17

I wanted to tag on to what Paula just said about, could you have used something less?

18:24

And I've noticed in talking with other people, opiate addicts in recovery,

18:29

ovary, that when they have gone back and taken an honest look at it and done

18:35

what you've clearly done and taken ownership, they have said that they honestly never had relief, even with significant medical

18:44

issues, from the opiates themselves.

18:47

And when they got brutally honest, they realized a lot of the times they would

18:51

hold on to their opiates, deal with the pain so that they could have a

18:56

chemical experience did you ever do that yeah okay

19:00

absolutely yeah yeah it's just

19:03

this cycle that you get stuck in and here's the thing here

19:06

was this thought was always in the back of my mind i

19:09

have had 23 knee surgeries and i have all the records to prove it yeah so i

19:13

can walk into any doctor and say here's my right here and and i get it every

19:17

time right and i hate that i know that i mean today i'm grounded today you know

19:22

i i work in recovery i'm very much involved and i'm not I'm not going to let

19:26

myself get separated from that, but that's always been a struggle for me that I know that that's reality,

19:33

yeah, that that can happen. I'd like to take a moment to recognize a major podcast sponsor.

19:41

Today's episode is brought to you by America's Thrift Stores,

19:44

your go-to option for decluttering and giving back.

19:47

You have a closet bursting at the seams or a garage that's seen better days?

19:52

We've got the perfect solution for you. That's right. America's Thrift Stores

19:55

makes it easy to clear out the clutter and make a positive impact in your community.

20:00

Whether you are cleaning out your wardrobe, downsizing your living space,

20:04

or just looking to give back, America's Thrift Stores has you covered.

20:08

And here's the best part. You've got options.

20:10

Schedule a hassle-free home pickup, drop off your items at one of their convenient

20:15

donation sites, or swing by an America's Thrift Store to donate in person.

20:19

No matter which way you choose, you're making a difference.

20:23

Every donation you make to America's Thrift Stores directly benefits charities

20:27

in your area, such as the Home of Grace and other fantastic organizations dedicated

20:31

to helping those in need. For example, donations made to America's thrift stores in southern Mississippi

20:37

help the Home of Grace provide support and assistance to individuals facing

20:42

drug and alcohol addiction. Your contributions make a real impact on their mission to provide freedom from

20:48

addiction through Christ-centered recovery.

20:50

So, not only are you decluttering your life, but you're also helping build a

20:55

stronger and more supportive community. It's truly a double blessing. So what are you waiting for? Clean out that closet,

21:01

clear out that garage, and make a positive difference in your community by donating

21:05

to America's Thrift Stores. Visit America's Thrift Stores online to schedule a home pickup,

21:11

locate a donation site near you, or get directions to one of their store locations.

21:17

America's Thrift Stores, where giving back never goes out of style.

21:25

You talked about slipping back into isolation can you

21:29

talk about a little bit about what did your social life

21:33

look i'm not talking about dating or anything personal but whatever but what

21:36

did your social life look like in the midst of that five years when things were

21:40

going well did you did were you connecting to people was there a did it look

21:45

vastly different than when you isolated or was it similar um i was you know

21:49

i always stay connected to people i'm a people Yeah.

22:22

That I should have not ever worked from home. Yeah. Yeah. So I want to say one thing.

22:26

I'm going to go back before that, but thank you for saying it.

22:28

COVID, I think, was probably a hiccup for a lot of people.

22:31

It caused a lot of relapses or led to them. Yeah.

22:35

But not that, and what I love about what you said is not that we can use any

22:39

of those things as an excuse, right? I mean, even bad advice, right? I talked about that to me as troubling advice

22:45

that you got. But what I love that you said was that, yes, in your active addiction,

22:51

you used that. Hey, it's their fault. They told me, right? Yeah.

22:55

But in your clarity, in your recovery and looking back, you're taking ownership.

23:00

Even bad advice is not an excuse, right? Our recovery is ours.

23:04

We have to be responsible for it. But it still is troublesome, right? So I love that you were able to get back

23:10

to that point and take responsibility for that.

23:12

Because that's the only place your recovery is safe, right? Right.

23:15

It's not it's not safe if we put it in the hands of others. It's only safe.

23:19

Look, and I even I can look back now and think,

23:23

well, what would I have done if I had an employee who, you know,

23:27

is in recovery but has a long time under their belt and has fallen and,

23:32

you know, broke a bone, has to have surgery? Like, what would I have done?

23:36

Would I have said, no, you absolutely can't. I just feel like it was a gamble and they didn't know.

23:40

And I think everyone learned something from that on both sides.

23:44

I just, you know, you know, I think everyone learned.

23:47

Well, so let me ask you, if you had an employee now knowing what you know,

23:52

I'm just curious, right? What do you think your response to them would be if they said that you knew they were in recovery?

23:58

They're in a similar situation. How do you think you would handle that?

24:01

So I can't answer that for anyone else.

24:04

But I can answer for myself that I know that I know that I know without a shadow

24:09

of a doubt. if I ever needed to have any type of medical, and I can never have

24:13

opiates ever again. Yeah. I think it is different for everyone.

24:18

I would be more weary to say someone struggling with an opiate addiction,

24:22

yeah, go ahead. You know, you're in recovery, but you're having surgery.

24:26

But not everyone struggles with that. You know, people have all different addictions.

24:30

So I think that'd be case by case.

24:33

But your answer actually to my question may be the best one, right?

24:37

Just to simply share your own experience and just to say, look,

24:39

I can't tell you what's right for you. For me, I know I would not be able to do that.

24:43

So, yeah, I think that's much wiser than even giving direct advice.

24:47

So thank you. So, listen, I know we've just begun your recovery journey.

24:51

So, you've taken us, I think you were just in and out of your second treatment?

24:55

Yeah. So, in those almost five years, you know, I stayed sober,

25:00

relapsed, and had a very hard push from, you know, family, from my friends,

25:06

you know, sober living house I was working at to go back somewhere.

25:10

And I wanted to go back to the same treatment center a third time.

25:14

It was familiar. It was comfortable. I knew all the people. You know,

25:17

that was my place, but I was pushed to go somewhere different, and I'm so glad I was.

25:23

I ended up going to, I wish that I could say that my two, you know,

25:27

that was my last rounds with treatment. And I think that there was those seasons that I was, you know,

25:33

at Home of Grace Mississippi, at the Sober Living.

25:36

Those were all vital seasons in my life. And I wouldn't be who I am today even without those.

25:41

I know that wasn't the final destination for me, but it all still made me who I am today.

25:46

And I learned so much in each season of that.

25:50

But so in 2022, I made it to Home of Grace in 8 Mile, Alabama,

25:54

and I went kicking and screaming. I didn't want nothing to do with

25:58

them. I wanted to go back to Mississippi because those were my people.

26:02

And I'm pretty sure when I got there. Yeah, I wanted to go back. Well, it was familiar.

26:06

I'm pretty sure when I got to Alabama, I told them that they were not my people

26:10

and were never going to be my people. And the intake counselor looked at me and said, no, we're going to be your people.

26:16

You're going to work here one day. And I looked at her like she was crazy.

26:20

It's another 90-day program. Did my three months there. I probably fought it

26:24

probably the first six weeks. And what I was doing in my head was just going through the motions.

26:30

I thought, I'm never going to get out of this cycle.

26:33

You know, I thought that I was just going to be stuck in it forever.

26:36

So I was doing what my family wanted to do. You know, I was doing what,

26:39

you know, my community wanted me to do.

26:41

And halfway through my program, I thought something just clicked.

26:45

And I thought, just sit down, just sit down and surrender.

26:50

You don't want to keep doing this. At this point, I was 33 years old.

26:53

And at some point, you get tired of going to treatment to treatment.

26:57

And I almost felt like some of my family had lost hope that I was ever going to get it right.

27:03

But that's not on them. That's on me. I messed up time after time after time.

27:08

Well, and you've been doing treatments now for about a decade.

27:10

If you say you're 33, we're roughly around. Yeah.

27:14

Yep. How many total? I never, I didn't know. Four. Okay. Four treatments.

27:19

My last treatment center made my fourth treatment. And that's where we're now? That's where we are now.

27:25

And so, you know, I got it together and I surrendered and I started to look

27:31

at the people before, you know, that was, had gone before me there.

27:34

And I'm like, look what they have. I want to have that. You know, I want that.

27:38

And so once I graduated, I didn't go back home again. I went to,

27:43

so they have a graduate program and it's grad dorms on property.

27:47

It's like a sober living house. While you live there, you work,

27:51

you pay rent, you know, all of the things. They try to reintroduce you back to society in a healthy way.

27:58

But I do want to say without what I had gone through in the past with the sober

28:02

living where I lived the first time, I wouldn't have made it this time.

28:05

So that's what I mean by every season is vital.

28:09

So I moved into the grad dorm. I got a job. I was working at an orthopedic place. I went back to medical.

28:14

And I knew that that was not where I needed to be.

28:17

It took several months. And I finally was like, I can't do this.

28:21

Like, it's too close to home. It's too close. So, you know, I quit that job. But in the meantime, I had become a house mother

28:29

at Home of Grace in Alabama. So I was doing house mothering and my full day job.

28:35

And every home I quit there, they asked me to come on as, you know, staff member.

28:39

So I came on as staff member.

28:41

I did house mothering for about a year, maybe a little less.

28:45

And then intake coordinator who told me that she can see me,

28:50

you know, working there full time. And I told her I never would.

28:53

She, she left that job. She got offered a new job and I got offered intake counselor position.

28:59

So it was really cool. It's like a full circle.

29:01

Yeah. So that's where I still am at today. I work at the home of grace in Alabama.

29:06

I'm the intake counselor. I'm also the grad dorm supervisor.

29:09

Yeah. Another funny story is whenever I first

29:12

applied for the grad dorm I got denied and now

29:15

I'm the supervisor why'd you get denied

29:18

because I told you I probably fought

29:21

it the first six weeks there so I didn't

29:25

I didn't get accepted right away but God has a plan for everything and yes he

29:29

does now you know you said something here that I kind of want a snapshot because

29:34

it's it's so it's so powerful and many people leave this step out so many people

29:39

People will go through treatment and expect that that alone was what they needed.

29:44

And then they'll go back to the same old people, places, and things and expect

29:48

that that recovery is going to continue. So you became at several points in your journey willing to do something different.

29:55

The first halfway house, this sober living environment. But not only that.

30:01

You stepped away from, right, you're talking about familiarity.

30:04

And as people, we gravitate towards what's familiar.

30:09

And we mistakenly sometimes call that comfortable, right? We don't mean comfortable. We mean familiar.

30:14

But we hear it as comfortable. We convince ourselves it's comfortable.

30:18

So here you go back to a familiar job in the medical, something you've always

30:22

done, something very easy for you to step into, to and made a really wise and

30:28

powerful recovery choice to step away from that.

30:31

Yeah. How did you arrive at that decision?

30:34

Because that's not easy, I would think, right? You're not 18 just getting into this.

30:38

This is what you've done for a long time. How did you arrive at making that choice?

30:43

I had told, you know, I reached out to, you know, my grad dorm supervisor at

30:48

the time and I had told her, look, you know, I'm struggling with this.

30:51

And when you say struggling, sorry to interrupt you.

30:55

Did you see warning signs like, this is, I'm starting to get...

31:00

At some point, I knew that I needed to get out of there.

31:03

Because you could see a bad moon arising. So I was working at an orthopedic office.

31:07

Yeah. It was just, it was too familiar. Everything was too familiar.

31:13

And I had once before became friends with.

31:15

Doctors. And I thought, you can't do that again. So I quit not knowing what

31:21

my future would look like, not knowing, but God already had a plan.

31:26

And I came on full-time as a staff member there, and it's been amazing ever since.

31:33

So I went from house mother to grad dorm supervisor to intake counselor.

31:38

And now I'm in school at the University of Alabama for social work.

31:43

So I'm not going to say roll tide i'm still

31:49

a heart divided too though you know i'm from louisiana so there's

31:52

lsu and then there's yeah okay you know get one

31:56

of those wreaths that have it one on the house divided yeah yeah but that's

32:02

been my journey and and i wouldn't change anything in that journey because it

32:06

made me who i am today each each relapse and each treatment center has taught

32:11

me a very valuable lesson yeah So what I know now,

32:14

what I can take away from that is even in five years, don't get comfortable

32:18

with your five years because I know that I'm just a decision away.

32:22

I'm just one impulsive decision away. And I have a great recovery community around me.

32:29

I work on campus. I still live on campus, which I know I'll have to make that move one day.

32:35

I'm just not ready. And that's okay, isn't it? Yeah.

32:39

I'm just, I'm surrounded by all the community, the recovery community that I,

32:45

you know, that I could ever ask for. And that's where I need to be. I know for myself, you know, after four treatment

32:52

centers, I know that I need to stay surrounded in that. How important is that?

32:59

Very, very. Well, I want to also tag in, though, it's not just the four treatment

33:04

centers, because a lot of times we will hear...

33:08

They were back-to-back treatments or two in one year or, you know,

33:12

but you had some significant periods of sobriety in between treatments.

33:17

And that's a testimony that not everyone can hear from just anyone.

33:21

I couldn't sit down and tell someone, hey, I had five years sober and I was this one decision away.

33:26

There are people that probably are only going to receive that from you because

33:29

you lived it and now you're walking this out. Yeah.

33:33

I mean, I know now and now it's really cool for me because I get to sit on the

33:37

other side of it and see other people walk it out.

33:43

And sometimes you just want to shake them and be like, you just stay. Yeah.

33:48

You know, just because I want them to get it like I got it.

33:52

You know, don't leave. Don't, you know, if you're in a sober living, don't leave too soon.

33:57

You know, the world is out there and it's always going to be out there.

34:01

Like, get it right. You know, get it right. Stay involved. evolve,

34:04

surround yourself, you know, with that recovery community, that is probably

34:08

the most vital thing that I can say.

34:11

Thank you for highlighting that because it is, I think people miss that,

34:14

right? I always say recovery truly is a team sport.

34:18

And if you try and go it alone, one, even if you're able to make it,

34:23

now, again, I know this is just my opinion, but even if you're able to string

34:25

together lengthy sobriety, but you're lone wolfing it. Yeah. Yeah.

34:30

To me, that's still not a vibrant life, right?

34:33

I mean, the only thing you can kind of say with a sense of, I mean,

34:37

it's better to be sober than not. But in isolation, I mean, life is just, we're not getting, I don't think that's

34:43

the life God called us to, right? There's still loneliness. There's still depression.

34:48

So, but just how vital it is to recovery.

34:52

And so I'm really glad you, yeah, highlight that. Yeah. So, I mean, treatment is great.

34:58

But from my my viewpoint you know

35:01

when you're in in treatment especially like a 90-day treatment you're getting

35:04

sober you're just getting sober and that's I

35:07

mean you need that that's that's the first step but

35:11

I feel like taking that step to secondary recovery is what's vital because okay

35:15

you've gotten sober and you've stayed sober for for 90 days but you haven't

35:20

attempted to live life in the outside world you know in in the world so you

35:26

go from nine days of treatment and just back out there,

35:28

your chances are not as great as if you then went on to secondary treatment like sober living,

35:36

where you can walk it out and you have people around you that are going to help

35:40

you walk it out and walk through accountability and walk it out with you. Yeah. Yeah.

35:46

Let me ask you a question. It's no secret that, right, I mean, the name of the podcast is Jesus Loved Addicts.

35:54

We are clearly in a firm belief that at the core of healthy living is a healthy

36:01

relationship with Christ. How does your recovery journey parallel your spiritual walk?

36:07

Do you see some parallels to it? Absolutely. I think you got to stay, you know, right on it with each other.

36:13

Without the spiritual aspect of it, I wouldn't walk out daily.

36:17

You know, in recovery, I think you very much need to have both. Absolutely.

36:26

When in those moments where, you know, before you arrived at where you're at,

36:32

those moments of relapse, those back and forth, when you look back now in hindsight,

36:38

what did your walk with Christ look like in those moments?

36:42

Could you sense a distancing? You were distancing yourself from him?

36:46

I mean, you know, what did that look like? Don't let me.

36:49

Yeah. So I've grown up in church my whole life.

36:52

I grew up in a Catholic church. I always knew who God was, but I never had a relationship with him.

36:59

You know, I started going to other churches when I got to these,

37:02

you know, faith-based recovery treatment centers. And I was like, well, what is this? You know, it was just something so different

37:09

for me. Like, it's almost like I seen it come alive.

37:12

And that was a vital part for me, a turning point.

37:17

Is that it's the relationship, not just knowing God or know who he is.

37:22

And, you know, it's actually having a relationship with God.

37:26

And I was able to find that along the way.

37:29

And I never knew it, you know, I didn't know anything other than growing up, you know, Catholic.

37:35

Man, I love that. You know, you said it came alive, right?

37:38

Because on one hand, religion can make us knowledgeable of God.

37:43

But only that relationship can really make it come alive. Right. So I love that term.

37:50

I mean, I didn't even know what worship music was. And I'm like, I like this.

37:55

And that's all I'll listen to now. Yeah. Yeah. Well, I've heard and seen it.

38:00

People will say, you know, the things you need to do when you get out of treatment.

38:05

Get plugged in. Well, for some people, they don't know what that means.

38:09

Did you get plugged into a church? Did you find a church?

38:12

I did. I got plugged in to a church, and this is what I love about the community

38:18

I have where I'm at today in life is that we all kind of get to do it together.

38:23

You know, there's several of us that go to the same church. You know,

38:26

it's kind of like a family outside of your own family that you create.

38:33

And, yeah, so you're not walking it out alone. You have this whole,

38:36

you know, you have this whole support system right there alongside you.

38:40

You yeah what a great yeah term it

38:43

is family right i mean it really has become become that

38:47

so yeah well and when you the more involved you are

38:49

with your recovery with your church family if that inclination comes back where

38:55

you may not even notice at first that you're isolating or old behavior i want

39:00

to know they're going to notice you know and i think that's one of the things

39:03

that also when we mentioned covid that caused because forsake not the gathering of my

39:09

people, like recovery, we need community.

39:12

Christians need community. We're not meant to do this life alone.

39:15

And that's what happened. So many people didn't have connection.

39:19

And it sounds like you've definitely formed.

39:22

Family connections. Absolutely. Absolutely. Also, another thing that now walking

39:28

out a year-long discipleship, which is great.

39:32

You know, sometimes I battle that in my head. I'm like, oh, I should have done that already.

39:36

I should be further along than what I am. But then I remind myself that even

39:41

at five years last time, I didn't have it.

39:43

So it's never too late to take that next step of furthering your walk.

39:49

Walk even if you are doing it later and not

39:52

you know and even if you're at the point where

39:55

you're discipling others there's still discipling to be

39:57

done in us right we never this side of heaven we're not

40:01

crossing that finish line until we're there and i like that you said that because

40:04

i think that's what happens you just said it paul and it kind of went with what

40:09

you said you you didn't want to do it because the world's telling you you should

40:16

have already done this So now I can't speak up and say,

40:19

hey, I want to do this too.

40:21

And why? Because we think we have arrived or others think we should be further than we are.

40:28

And my walk, your walk, Paul's walk, it's not going to look just alike.

40:31

And that's okay because it's not supposed to. It may take you longer to do something

40:36

than it takes him. It may take me longer. Yeah.

40:40

So one thing that I've realized and I brought to my own attention,

40:44

you know, here lately is that, you know, as a grad dorm supervisor,

40:49

so, you know, I have all these grads that I love so dearly, but I lead them,

40:53

you know, the way they should go, you know, all the things. You're discipling them.

40:57

Yeah. Kind of, in a sense. Yeah. Mentoring. But, you know...

41:02

Like sometimes at church when they would call altar call, you know,

41:05

I'd feel it to go up and I don't because in my mind I would be like,

41:09

no, but you're over them. You know, you should, they're going up there. You should. And I stopped myself

41:14

and I had to tell myself recently, like, don't ever stop yourself.

41:18

You know, they're going to look up to you and see you still doing that at the

41:23

stage you're in. Don't ever stop. So that I've been, you know, working on that lately and it's been eye opening.

41:33

Before we go any further, let's take a minute to address the man or the woman

41:36

listening to today's episode and wishing for a better life.

41:39

Or maybe addiction has completely overtaken a family member or a friend. You are not alone.

41:45

As you may know, the Jesus Loves Addicts podcast is produced by the Home of

41:48

Grace, a Christ-centered addiction recovery program in South Mississippi with

41:53

over 60 years of experience. The Home of Grace has residential programs ranging from 30 days to 12 months,

41:59

With two separate campuses for men and women, they are fully staffed with caring

42:03

individuals who want nothing more than to guide you to a life of recovery.

42:07

Services include individual and group counseling, marriage and family counseling,

42:11

classes, workshops, GED, and workforce training, all grounded in biblical principles.

42:17

And because of donations from the community, the cost of the program is incredibly affordable.

42:22

Thousands of alumni from all across the country can tell you there is no other

42:26

program in the world quite like the Home of Grace. If you want to start a new

42:30

path to recovery, don't wait. Speak with their admission specialist today.

42:33

Visit homeofgrace.org or call 833-55-GRACE to talk with someone.

42:39

That's 833-55-GRACE. Call the Home of Grace today.

42:48

Man, Jennifer, you're hitting on all these things that I absolutely love because it's so true, isn't it?

42:53

We get to these places, and I think it is problematic in church people, right?

42:59

Where we feel as though, you know, we need to put on our best faces rather than just being real.

43:05

I mean, you know, and we need to be real. And it can be really,

43:08

I think, it can point people to Christ to see people who are,

43:15

that they may perceive as strong in the faith, still show their dependence on Christ, right?

43:23

When we don't do that, when we don't do the altar call because we're afraid

43:26

of the person, what the person next to us might think, then we're really showing

43:31

them that we rely on us, right? That we feel like, so that's, I love that. I love that there's some welcoming

43:37

of our continued dependence on Christ in that.

43:41

So I'm really glad that you brought that out. So let me ask you something.

43:44

Do you have siblings? I do. You do. Younger or older?

43:48

Older. Older. Okay. Were they a part of your journey?

43:52

Were they ever affected and trying to help you? Did the family walk away at

43:56

some point? They never walked away. They never left my side. And we fought along the way, but they never walked away.

44:03

Way they always you know wanted what was best for me yeah i just didn't want

44:08

it bad enough for myself yep so they were always there i just you know at some

44:14

point nothing mattered yeah yeah and the families can't do it for us as much

44:18

as they want to right yeah yeah i wouldn't if without

44:23

the family that i had i wouldn't you know be here today if i didn't have a family

44:28

that fought And that pushed and pushed for me to go to treatment every time I wouldn't have gone.

44:33

I wasn't, I didn't have, you know, I wasn't court ordered to any of these places.

44:38

I was family-ordered, and I wouldn't be where I am today if I wasn't,

44:42

if I didn't have the family that I do have. Yeah. Yeah.

44:47

It's sad. You know, when I hear people say that, I am very grateful that there

44:51

are family members out there that will do that.

44:54

But it also saddens me to know that there are those who don't have that aspect, too.

44:59

And I'm sure you've met. You're in the field. You're working with people. Yeah.

45:03

So for both sides of that equation, people who have that kind of family and people who don't. Yeah.

45:09

There's somebody out there listening now to your story. Yeah.

45:13

One of them is saying, probably taking a new look at their family and going,

45:18

wow, they really are sticking by me. I need to appreciate that more.

45:22

Right. Somebody else is saying, gosh, I wish I had what she had.

45:26

Right. I've never had that. What would you say to the struggling person out

45:30

there on either side of that fence? So and what i see every day is is you

45:35

know we get you know new clients in at the treatment

45:37

center i'm working at that are mad at their

45:40

family because their family's bringing them and i tell them in time

45:43

you're gonna say thank you you're gonna tell them thank you

45:46

one day they're mad that their families just

45:49

come and drop them off at treatment and then the people who

45:51

don't have family it's what you do

45:54

now like you come to us and you do have family now now we will walk by by your

46:01

side the whole way through and and even if you don't have a biological family

46:05

you it's just something about recovery you create this family amongst you know yours yeah,

46:13

Wow, what a great answer. Yeah. Yeah. And that's true.

46:17

You know, I hear a truth, a biblical truth echoed in that, right?

46:21

He's a father to the fatherless. And so, yeah, that's what, you know, you do.

46:25

There is a family waiting for you, right? Yeah. So that's great.

46:30

Any pivotable, pivotable. New word. Yeah, thank you very much.

46:34

You're doing great. Webster's calling me now. Any pivotable, pivotal. Pivotal.

46:41

Pivotal. We're going to go with pivotal. There we go. Sounds good, yeah.

46:44

Any pivotal moments in your journey that have not been, that you haven't addressed,

46:50

that you feel like thinking back, you'd be remiss in leaving out? Anything you want to?

46:54

Oftentimes, I struggle with sharing my testimony because I feel like it's not

47:00

this, you know, grand testimony.

47:03

And I have to remind myself and, you know, my people around me remind me that

47:08

there's somebody out there that's going to need to hear your specific testimony. Testimony.

47:12

So that's one thing I struggle with. But, you know, you walk through it every day.

47:17

Why would you say it's not a grand testimony? Let me ask you.

47:20

Why? Because I think I know what you mean. But I want to I want to ask, why would you say it's not a grand testimony?

47:25

I think it's because, you know, going through all these treatment centers,

47:29

I hear these stories and I'm like, you made it out alive. Like, how did you do that?

47:35

How'd you make it out of that? You know, and I didn't, I didn't go through that.

47:39

And I'm so, you know, so thankful that I didn't.

47:42

But I hear these stories and I'm like, man, I didn't go through that. I never had to live that.

47:46

I had a loving family. I always had a place to lay my head every night.

47:50

And I look back and I'm so grateful because not everyone has that. Yeah.

47:56

Yeah. What's the emotion?

48:00

It's just hard because that's the reality of that. Yeah.

48:04

For you or for those who don't have it? For those who don't. Yeah.

48:09

So your compassion on display. I love that. Which is probably why you're a really good identic. Amen.

48:14

Because they need it. Yeah. Yeah. Thank you for that, right?

48:20

You know, I want to say something to that because it's, and that's where I thought you were going, right?

48:25

I think sometimes we feel like if our testimony didn't include just absolute.

48:32

All the way to the bottom. You know, yeah.

48:34

Correct. That it's not. But, you know, biblically speaking, there's,

48:40

Christ says, and this is moment, right?

48:43

I love this. He says, I wish that you were either hot or cold,

48:47

but because you're lukewarm, I'll spit you out of my mouth.

48:50

And so why am I bringing that up? Because I think oftentimes it's the lukewarm

48:54

position that's harder to be budged from.

48:57

So what I want to tell you, Jennifer, is that you do have an amazing testimony

49:01

because it's almost harder to move from where you were, right?

49:05

There was still good things in your life. You hadn't, you know, rock bottom is a great place to make change.

49:11

And look, no matter where you are, make that change. But please don't undermine

49:16

your testimony, right? Sometimes when we have a lot of good left in our lives,

49:20

that's a harder place to move from. And yet you came to this realization, not only that, but also your introduction

49:28

to the whole lifestyle through the medical field is one that needs to be told.

49:34

I think we need to be wiser. It's a pet peeve of mine.

49:37

I have to be careful because I can get very dark about it. But I think we have

49:41

to be careful in this country and certainly as addicts, how we approach the

49:46

medical field when it comes to these kinds of things.

49:49

I'm very cautious now. I'll walk in screaming. I'm in recovery just because

49:54

it's so easy to fall right back. Amen. Yeah.

49:57

One of the things I always tell people in recovery is, you know,

50:00

from this point on, and really even for those who aren't, you have to be a vicious

50:04

advocate for yourself in the medical field. You do. For sure. I am allergic.

50:09

You're allergic. To any and all narcotics. What did I have somebody tell me?

50:14

It left me that quick. But I know that, oh, they even put it on the eye doctor.

50:20

Just in case. Just in case. You never know. I go to the eye doctor a lot.

50:23

He's never offered me opiates, but just in case. Yeah.

50:28

And you do a lot with accountability. Oh, yeah. Accountability is a thousand percent a must.

50:36

You have to have it because not every day you're going to be strong. Amen.

50:39

Yeah. You have to have it. And I think it goes to say that accountability partners,

50:46

those mentors and things, they can't be your family.

50:50

It's not meant to be. It's not for them. It's not fair to them.

50:54

So it sounds like you went definitely outside and it's not their responsibility. Yeah. Mm-hmm. Yeah.

51:02

It also can muddy those waters, right?

51:05

Mm-hmm. So I often hear spouses or parents saying, you know,

51:10

oh, well, I'm there for them. That's great. We want you to be there for them. Right. But you can't be you

51:16

can't be their sponsor, so to speak.

51:19

You can't you can't be that person that they turn to in every moment because

51:22

you still need to have the daughter's son, father, mom relationship.

51:28

You still need to have the husband wife relationship. And if you inject to that

51:33

some sort of counseling, official or unofficial counseling relationship, it's going to go awry.

51:39

Somebody is going to get tired of that relationship. Real quick.

51:43

Either the person in need will resent them or the person giving the help will

51:48

resent the other person. Right. Because they're just not getting it. And it's going to cost both ends.

51:53

Yeah. I'm glad that you mentioned that without mentioning it.

51:56

I mean, I understood your family's in Louisiana. You're in Alabama.

51:59

And that's hard. It's hard being far away, but I know that at this season of

52:04

my life that this is absolutely where I have to be for right now. Amen.

52:10

I mean, I know that I have literally passed my family through hell and earth.

52:16

I know that without a shadow of a doubt, and I never want to do that to them again.

52:22

What do you think was the hardest thing for them? From your perspective,

52:26

what would you perceive this? You know, my immediate family,

52:30

they never, no one dealt with addiction. You know, no one's in addiction.

52:34

They just didn't struggle with that. So I feel like it was new for everyone, for all of us.

52:39

I don't think anyone knew how to navigate through that.

52:43

I think my parents, you know, would go to treatment and, okay,

52:47

you have it. You're fixed. You're fixed. And yeah, that would be great and that would be beautiful,

52:54

but it's not like that. It's not always like that.

52:58

So, yeah, just that was the hard part for us is that, and I'd,

53:03

you know, I'd mess up and I felt like I failed again and I failed them again

53:06

and it's hard. Yeah. Yeah.

53:11

What a great point about, you know, families perceiving that there is this kind

53:16

of finish line. I wish there was. Yeah.

53:20

But it is more like, you know, and this is an old comparison you hear in every

53:23

treatment center you ever go to, but that kind of that comparison to diabetes.

53:26

You know, addiction really is one of those things that can be managed and you

53:30

can live a vibrant, wonderful life in recovery.

53:33

But you always have to be aware, to borrow what you said earlier,

53:37

that you're just one bad decision away from losing that all again.

53:42

And I can't tell you how many stories I've seen like that.

53:45

I'm going to challenge one thing because I know that you usually bring this

53:48

down. So you said you wish there was a finish line, but do you really?

53:53

If you... No, no, no. Okay. I wish that there... I wish... I could go to treatment.

53:58

Someone could go for 90 days and they'd be fixed. I wish that would...

54:03

It's not. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. There was a finish line. We would not keep striving. Yeah.

54:10

I mean, it would be great if it was done. You don't ever have to worry about

54:13

it again. That would be great. But I know that that's not realistic. I know that.

54:18

So, no. I wouldn't want there to be a finish line. Just making sure.

54:21

Yeah. And again, and probably a topic for an entire podcast episode.

54:26

But again, what a wonderful parallel to the spiritual walk.

54:30

It's a... Never ends. Right. And I'm still learning. I'm still learning every day spiritually.

54:35

Well, I'm glad I'm not the only one. I feel silly because I ask a ton of questions.

54:38

Ask away. But I've learned that to just ask. Yeah. Yeah.

54:42

Yeah. Well, thank God you do, right? I'm glad I'm not the only one that has to do that. So, yeah.

54:48

Jennifer, thank you really so much. And you do have a rock star testimony.

54:53

And by the way, anybody who's overcome addiction has a rock star testimony.

54:58

And so important to be told. That's why we do this podcast, because I guarantee

55:03

you there are people out there that have just gotten a nugget of hope from hearing your story.

55:08

And so thank you so much. And guys, just, you know, again, I know we say it's

55:12

like a broken record, but please don't give up, right?

55:15

Don't give up. Have you hurt people? Without a doubt, you've hurt people.

55:18

Have you been hurt by people? Without a doubt, you've been hurt by people.

55:21

We live in a broken world. It's what we do for each other, right?

55:24

Sadly, right? I say for each other. Maybe I should say it's what we do to each other.

55:28

But the reality is that there is a better life to be had. It will never be perfect,

55:32

the sight of heaven, but it will be infinitely, infinitely better than the trap of addiction.

55:38

So, guys, please, you know, taste and see that the Lord is good.

55:41

Try it out, right? There's your misery.

55:44

Wonderful, wonderful slogan in the recovery program that says your misery will

55:49

be waiting for you at the door, right? You can always have your misery back.

55:53

If you choose to go back, that lifestyle, I promise you, is not going away.

55:57

Way. And if you choose to have it back, great. Give yourself the opportunity to experience a different life,

56:02

a different life and recovery. Give yourself that possibility.

56:05

Everyone can do it. Not everybody will, but I promise you, if you're hearing

56:09

this, you can. And if you're struggling, step into that possibility.

56:13

And for those of you who have, guys, jesuslovesaddicts.com, we'd love to hear

56:18

your story, maybe have you on.

56:21

But certainly just to hear from you would be wonderful. Leave your comments.

56:24

If you have questions, leave your questions. Uh, and guys till next time, hang in there in a one day at a time. We love you.