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2:00

David, I want to talk to you about transhumanism

2:02

because this is a subject that you know very

2:04

well. I think you're studying

2:06

this at the academic level. Before we get into

2:09

it, I'm going to let you give your take

2:11

on it. What I understand is kind of an

2:14

agenda that we have been under

2:16

for many decades. We can go

2:18

back to people like H.G.

2:20

Wells, who wrote a book called The New

2:22

World Order, The Open Conspiracy, Bertrand

2:25

Russell, other people in those circles. They

2:27

said they wanted to go back to Plato, utilize

2:30

Plato's philosophy of technae,

2:33

and make it into a

2:35

technocracy, a world government ruled

2:37

not by nation states, not by

2:40

firewalls of the family and borders,

2:42

but rather a global federation of

2:45

world citizens where nobody has identity

2:47

other than what the system gives

2:49

you ultimately by some sort of

2:52

matrix, some sort of thing to

2:54

be plugged into. As we progress

2:56

up into the future beyond

2:59

the designs of people 100

3:01

plus years ago, we see

3:04

books like Between Two Ages

3:06

by Brzezinski outlining this

3:08

world government that's run by

3:10

technologists. The book is called The Technotronic

3:13

Era. We see people like Jacques Atelier,

3:15

The Kissinger of France, writing books about

3:17

transhumanists as the tip of

3:19

the spear of the

3:21

revolution. We find people like

3:24

Klaus writing books like

3:26

The Fourth Industrial Revolution where he talks about

3:28

how we're going to be linked into Skynet.

3:31

We see his understudy, Yoet, Noah

3:34

Yevol Harari, basically saying

3:36

the same type of stuff. What

3:38

is transhumanism? Does it have a

3:42

predecessor in the ancient Gnostic

3:44

cults of mystery religions? And

3:46

is it kind of ultimately something Gnostic? Yeah,

3:50

thanks for having me, Jay. I really appreciate the

3:52

opportunity. And this is a topic

3:54

that I've been really concerned with and is the

3:57

primary focus of my academic research. know

4:00

we have we have a lot of conversation and you

4:02

do incredible work talking about many of

4:04

the global stelis books and the

4:06

technocracy and how transhumanism fits into that but-

4:09

what I think most people aren't aware of is

4:11

that the sort of philosophical

4:14

presupposition. That give an undergird

4:16

transhumanist philosophy in the contemporary

4:19

period. I actually have pretty old

4:21

roots and I would argue that you

4:23

can look back to- early

4:26

philosophers like John Rijina.

4:28

He was an Irish- neo-platonic

4:31

Christian deemed heretic by the church but

4:33

he was considered one of the leading.

4:36

Philosophers of the Carolingian era and

4:39

in the eight hundreds he talked

4:41

about this new concept of the

4:43

useful arts as redeeming. The abilities

4:46

that were lost to Adam due to the

4:48

fall and so. What's interesting

4:51

in in a handful of scholars have

4:53

made this argument and I actually agree

4:55

with it that transhumanism and transhumanist

4:57

philosophy actually emerges out of heretical belief

5:00

systems within Christianity specifically western

5:02

Christianity. And that from

5:04

from the scholastic period forward- this

5:07

idea that technology and technological

5:09

or mechanical means are going

5:12

to divinize man and- regain

5:14

total universal knowledge over nature which

5:16

they believed Adam had before the

5:18

fall. Is there for us

5:21

moving back to the new Jerusalem and

5:23

this is generally characterized as a more

5:25

modern. A millenarian perspective

5:27

as opposed to a more traditional

5:29

Christian perspective be more of an apocalyptic

5:31

and that would. Ebb and flow there be good

5:33

and bad periods throughout history

5:36

but ultimately the- the eschatological

5:38

vision of traditional Christianity that things are

5:40

going to get worse- in one sense

5:42

or another where many

5:45

of these heretical views. That we can see

5:47

move through the scholastic period through

5:49

people like. I Yakima Fiore and I'll

5:52

speak a little bit more about. You about why

5:54

he is so influential- Roger

5:57

Bacon moving into people like

5:59

Paracel. the alchemist Henry

6:01

Cornelius Agrippa moving into somebody like

6:03

Francis Bacon who also wrote a

6:05

book called the new Atlantis and

6:08

after the Reformation period there is

6:10

this energy that was really a

6:13

characterizing Protestant northern European ideas

6:15

that was sort of blending

6:17

hermetic ideas

6:21

esoteric Western esoteric ideals with Protestant

6:23

Christianity and undergirded by this belief

6:25

in technological progress which ultimately is

6:28

going to lead towards the transcendence

6:30

of man and go to the

6:32

new Jerusalem and so much

6:34

of the 16th century and the 17th

6:37

century was characterized by this enlightenment utopian

6:39

thinking that we were going to redeem

6:41

ourselves through technology and I would argue

6:44

and even Nick Bolstrom will talk a little

6:46

bit about he's one of the leading current

6:48

philosophers of transhumanism he has an article on

6:51

the history of transhumanism and he

6:53

even highlights that many of the

6:56

aspirations of transhumanism actually comes out

6:58

of Western esoteric alchemy but

7:00

I think we could make a strong argument that it

7:02

even emerges before that. Yeah

7:05

I like to tie in there I

7:07

was going to bring up hermeticism you

7:09

know there's a famous book by Dame

7:11

Francis Yates on the Rosicrucian Enlightenment and

7:13

she highlights the beginning of that book

7:15

the philosophy of say John Dee right

7:17

the first 007 John Dee was

7:20

very interested in the notion of

7:22

man achieving apotheosis through ritual magic

7:25

and a lot of the esoteric stuff

7:27

that you're talking about that we think

7:29

about today comes out of this tradition

7:31

of hermeticism and even scientism itself actually

7:33

has a lot of of its

7:35

origin in the hermetic tradition of the 1500s, 1600s, 1700s many of

7:38

the famous scientists were involved in these

7:42

esoteric lodges where they could conduct alchemy.

7:44

Newton was a famous alchemist most people

7:47

don't know this and

7:49

it ties in as well

7:51

with the rise of Marxism and socialism because

7:53

a lot of the groups

7:56

that you're talking about Joachim Fjord

7:58

and his radical Franciscan philosophy It

8:00

was a very imminent tizing of

8:02

the eschaton, and that's just a fancy

8:05

word for saying we can bring the

8:07

kingdom of God into time and space

8:09

through human works, create a kind of

8:11

human kingdom of God. And

8:14

later groups picked up on this idea, Thomas

8:16

Munzer and the Munzer rebellion was an earlier

8:20

the next phase of a kind of socialism. And

8:23

as we get up into the period

8:25

of Marx, Marx himself has a very

8:27

technocratic bent in his writings. He thinks

8:29

that technology could be the key to

8:31

the creation of what would quote, liberate

8:33

man and bring about the utopian state.

8:35

We see this in other philosophers after Marx

8:38

who also speak this way. And

8:40

then we get into the technocrats and they share

8:42

this idea. But like you say,

8:44

it goes back to the ancient world of

8:46

the idea of creating an ideal world, an

8:49

ideal government. But it also

8:52

wants to transform man. And I

8:54

think when we mentioned Gnosticism, why

8:57

do you think they want to transform man? Is it

8:59

something like out of the Garden of Eden, like the

9:01

promise of that you can be like God, you can

9:03

be your own God? It almost sounds like that. Yeah,

9:06

I would argue, again, coming at it

9:08

as an Orthodox Christian, that it really

9:11

is this sort of misinterpretation

9:13

of Scripture via Genesis 3.

9:16

But really many of the thinkers throughout history that

9:18

I would highlight regarding this

9:21

trajectory of transhumanist, undergirded

9:23

presuppositions all believe

9:26

in this linear progress that technology

9:28

and rational apprehension of nature is

9:30

what's going to transcend man. And

9:32

the traditional Christian understanding is the

9:34

way that we unite with God

9:36

is through a moral

9:39

behavior, a moral living of our lives

9:41

that reflects the teachings of Jesus Christ.

9:43

And it's through that embodiment of the

9:45

teachings of Christ and the

9:47

uncreated energies as an Orthodox Christian,

9:49

that we become synergized by God.

9:52

But this worldview is specifically

9:54

about you could argue it has

9:56

Gnostic elements because of this emphasis

9:58

on the rational apprehension of knowledge,

10:01

which when we move into the 21st

10:03

century with somebody like Yavonov or Harari

10:05

and his philosophy of dataism, which I

10:07

would argue is a central core to

10:10

transhumanist philosophy, he actually argues

10:12

in favor of philosophy dataism

10:15

where the only thing that

10:17

truly exists in the world

10:20

is information. And therefore the only thing

10:22

that's important is the ability to process

10:24

and cipher information. And he makes the

10:26

claim towards the end of that book,

10:28

Homo Deus, that we are just algorithms

10:30

and everything that's living is an algorithm

10:32

and therefore there is no real ontological

10:34

distinction between a digital

10:36

or a computerly generated algorithm and

10:39

us as biological entities. And the only thing

10:41

that's important then is how much can we

10:44

process? And therefore if you are upgraded

10:46

with hardware in your brain

10:49

or essentially totally transcend human nature through

10:51

transhumanism, that you are going to be

10:53

at an ontologically a higher state than

10:55

you could ever be as a human

10:58

entity. And that really is Gnostic in

11:00

the sense that one, it's a

11:02

transcendent of nature for them, it's

11:05

part of their post-evolutionary philosophy. But

11:07

that focus on rational apprehension, I

11:09

think, is something that can't be

11:12

underappreciated, that it really stems out

11:14

of spiritual ideas. And

11:16

when we look at the 20th century

11:18

with somebody like Arthur C. Clarke and

11:21

his famous quote that any sufficiently advanced

11:23

technology is indistinguishable from magic, my research

11:26

is really focused in the realm of new

11:28

religious movements and Western esoteric traditions. And I

11:30

would argue that transhumanism is a new

11:33

religious movement. It sort of challenges the

11:35

categories of what religion is, but

11:37

it's built on many presuppositions despite

11:39

transhumanists now would say, oh, we're

11:42

atheists, we're rationalists, we

11:44

don't have any sort of spiritual worldview. But in

11:46

fact, I would say that they do. And

11:49

these are ancient roots. And Yakima

11:51

Fiore, as you mentioned, was

11:53

an abbot who believed that

11:56

there was these sort of three different ages

11:58

that reflected the Trinity. There was the age

12:01

of the Father, which was the Old Testament,

12:03

the age of the Son, which was the

12:05

incarnation of Christ. And then he believed, as

12:07

most people do, that in his life, then they

12:10

entered into the age of the

12:12

Holy Spirit. So he just happened to be at

12:14

the precipice and that this age

12:16

of the Holy Spirit then was all about

12:18

the regeneration of man

12:20

back to the Adenic

12:22

state. And that technology

12:25

and knowledge are the ways in which that

12:27

occurs. And when we

12:29

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Columbo Law. You get somebody like

13:46

Roger Bacon who was also an English

13:48

Franciscan friar. We see

13:50

the exact same thing and there's

13:52

many legends regarding Roger Bacon. He

13:54

was obviously considered an alchemist but

13:56

there's a big legend about his

13:59

mechanical or necromantic

14:02

brazen head that he was able to conjure and

14:04

that he could then ask the questions to this

14:07

mechanical or necromantic head

14:09

and it would give him all sites of responses.

14:11

It was sort of an all-knowing entity and it's

14:14

like, well, that's in the 1300s and

14:16

we can already see a sort of precursor on

14:18

what many people believe that AGI is gonna be.

14:23

Yeah, the idea of a mimicked

14:27

logic machine that mimics the

14:30

human brain, this is the origins of

14:32

modern computing. If you look at Leibniz,

14:34

Leibniz and some of his writings, the

14:37

co-founder of calculus at the same

14:39

time as Newton, he

14:41

has essays where he talks about the

14:44

possibility of building on the

14:47

basis of this kind of neo-Platonic philosophy,

14:49

a machine that mimics the logic of

14:51

the human mind and it kind of

14:53

sets the stage for the rise of

14:55

the computer. I think the medieval golem

14:57

mythology also plays into that. There

14:59

is an overlap too with medieval

15:01

Kabbalah and hermeticism and scientism that emerges

15:03

out of that as well. So there's

15:06

a lot of strains that go together,

15:08

absolutely. And one thing you talk

15:10

about a lot in your videos and

15:13

you have a channel, church eternal

15:15

logo is over on YouTube, you talk a

15:17

lot about boundaries and that men and the

15:19

masculine spirit is very interested in erecting and

15:22

protecting boundaries. That's part of what it is

15:24

to be a man. And

15:26

I appreciate that because this is overlooked

15:28

today. I just did a stream kind

15:30

of piggybacking your masculinity stream and

15:33

this relates to the transhumanist stuff because

15:35

transhumanism is really about going

15:38

beyond all boundaries and it ties

15:40

into the trans agenda in

15:42

terms of biology because the idea that

15:44

when you're mentioning these esotericism, when we

15:46

look at something like the image of

15:49

Baphomet, we notice that it has both

15:51

genders. And in some of the

15:53

occult circles and traditions, there's this idea that

15:55

to have both of the genders or to

15:57

be non-binary to go beyond that. to

16:00

return to this original primal

16:02

monadic state which is not

16:04

in any kind of division

16:06

or differentiation. So, for example,

16:08

to go from the

16:10

original source primal monadic state

16:12

to male and female is

16:15

somehow a fall into a lesser state

16:17

of being and they have an assumption

16:19

and you can actually read some of

16:21

the esotericists and the occultists and the

16:23

chorallians, they'll speak this well. They'll say,

16:25

we need to get back to some

16:27

kind of non-gendered, supra state

16:29

of beyond man and woman

16:32

or being both. That

16:34

statue that they unveiled in

16:38

one of the Nordic countries where it was a man

16:40

with genitalia having breast feeding a

16:42

baby, that is a form of

16:44

the Baphomet imagery here. How does

16:46

that relate to the transhumanist movement

16:48

though and this idea of transcending

16:50

boundaries? Well,

16:53

yeah, you highlight that transcendence of boundaries

16:55

or the dissolution of boundaries. Terrence McKenna

16:57

was famous for arguing that that's exactly

16:59

what psychedelics do and I

17:01

would argue that much of when we look

17:03

at the agenda of

17:06

the elites, the dissolution of national boundaries,

17:08

the dissolution of boundaries between man and

17:10

machine, the dissolution of boundaries between man

17:12

and animal, the dissolution of boundaries between

17:14

male and female, that these are actually

17:16

attacks on the psyche, these are attacks

17:18

on the reality of God's creation, these

17:20

are attacks on our ability to logically

17:22

and rationally apprehend and process reality and

17:24

if you can't see what's in front

17:26

of you and understand it, well then

17:28

you're going to be very malleable by

17:30

powers that be to reinterpret the phenomenon

17:32

that is occurring in front of your

17:35

face and I think that's something that we're seeing

17:37

right now. Yeah,

17:39

human nature is believed

17:41

to be plastic. There's no such thing

17:43

as natures. There's the plasticity of man

17:45

and this goes back to H.G. Wells'

17:47

island of Dr. Moreau. He was actually

17:49

way ahead of the curve

17:52

in this idea because his

17:55

idea was that you can sort of turn

17:58

man into whatever you want him to be. because

18:00

he's sort of like putty, right? And so

18:02

you can mold him into the future entity that you want to

18:04

be. But this is interesting because one

18:07

of the flaws that I see here. There

18:09

is nothing more frustrating to me.

18:13

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18:15

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19:09

back to the fourth hour of the Alex Jones Show. I'm your

19:11

guest host Jay Dyer of Jason Ellis. I wanna remind you that

19:13

we have a new live event. We've been

19:15

having a blast doing these live events

19:18

all over. We'll be in Las Vegas

19:20

June 22nd with our

19:22

good buddy Jamie Kennedy from Scream, the

19:25

Jamie Kennedy experiment, an awesome

19:27

comedian. We have a great time doing these

19:29

six hour events. They're not, it's not just

19:31

stand up. It's not just boring lectures. More

19:33

like a party. I know my buddy David

19:35

here has been to one of our events.

19:37

A lot of fun. It's June 22nd in

19:39

Las Vegas. Head on over to my Twitter

19:41

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19:43

at the top there is the post and you

19:46

can go over to the Eventbrite link

19:48

and get your tickets right now, June 22nd

19:50

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19:52

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19:56

with Sam Tripoli, Tim Fohat many,

19:58

many times. So my wife, Jamie,

20:01

will also be there with a six hour

20:03

event. Be sure and get your tickets now.

20:06

There's limited seating. So we're talking about

20:08

this dissolution of boundaries. We're talking about

20:10

weird contradictions in the worldview

20:12

of transhumanism. And

20:15

before the break there, I was trying to get into the

20:17

point of this element

20:19

of, on the one hand, we want

20:21

no boundaries. However, all of reality

20:23

in this quantification perspective is

20:25

seen to be somehow information.

20:28

Well, to have information requires

20:30

setting some kind of boundaries. We have

20:32

this piece of information, which is distinct from

20:34

this piece of information. So having and knowing

20:37

information requires boundaries. Yet at the same time,

20:39

we're told that there are no

20:41

boundaries and man must sort of step

20:43

beyond all boundaries and somehow

20:46

achieve his own divinity. And

20:48

it's always based on weird fallacies, weird

20:50

illogical contradictions. Klaus and Harari, for example,

20:53

say that there's no such thing as

20:55

consciousness. There's no such thing as the

20:57

mind. However, we're gonna upload the mind

20:59

to the cloud. How are you gonna

21:02

upload something that doesn't exist? It makes

21:04

no sense. Man is gonna

21:06

be God, of course, but man is

21:08

meaningless muck from the pond scum of

21:10

the ancient primordial world of the soup.

21:13

So it's always a contradictory story

21:15

and narrative. Yet they're selling us

21:17

on this myth that

21:19

technology will somehow make us

21:21

into gods or

21:24

Marvel universe, soy men,

21:26

superheroes, right? What's

21:28

the root of this in

21:30

terms of what they really

21:32

want? So we've talked about the ancient history,

21:35

but what's the real goal of the transhumanists,

21:37

in your view? Well,

21:40

it depends on who you

21:42

ask in regards to some of these

21:45

contemporary philosophers. If you look at one

21:47

who is a co-founder of Humanity Plus,

21:49

which is sort of the rebranding of

21:51

the Transhumanist Association, the World Transhumanist Association,

21:53

that was rebranded in the early 2000s

21:56

as Humanity Plus by philosopher Nick

21:59

Boeschram. and David Purse.

22:01

And David Purse describes himself

22:04

as a negative utilitarian in that

22:06

philosophical worldview is interested in the

22:08

elimination or at least the limiting

22:10

to the most significant extent suffering.

22:13

And so he is a vegan

22:15

who promotes a hedonistic transhumanism,

22:18

which is about the engineering,

22:21

this is a direct quote of Paradise

22:23

Engineering. So he believed that

22:25

this hedonistic transhumanism, what they're going to

22:27

do through the technologies is engineer paradise.

22:30

And in so doing, he goes so far

22:32

is that he wants to redesign

22:34

the total global ecosystem, I

22:37

kid you not. And

22:39

in his own writings, he

22:41

would want to redesign predatory

22:44

species so that they would no

22:46

longer eat other animals and

22:48

therefore eliminate suffering. And the one of the

22:50

ways in which he postulates, we might be

22:52

able to do that is through a brain

22:54

implant. And so what would happen

22:56

is when you experience suffering, this would be sort

22:58

of transmutated into a

23:00

sense of pleasure. But it would be

23:02

it would be the way he describes

23:04

it as it would inform you that

23:06

you would be suffering and be a

23:08

different type of stimulation. But therefore when

23:11

you experience suffering, you wouldn't actually feel

23:13

it. Well, from a Christian

23:15

worldview, that is demonic. And

23:17

we've talked about sort of

23:19

providing everybody with their hedonistic

23:22

desires and living in pod-like

23:25

entities with their

23:27

UBI, all their kibble and

23:29

their bugs ready there

23:31

to eat for them. And he's

23:34

very much in favor of a

23:36

utopian worldview like this, where you

23:38

talk with other major transhumanist thinkers.

23:41

Max Moore is really kind of

23:43

considered one of the premier philosophers

23:45

and founders of contemporary transhumanism. And

23:47

he owns the our core life

23:51

extension foundation in Scottsdale, Arizona,

23:53

which is focused on cryogenics.

23:55

And so they are currently

23:59

freezing. human bodies right before

24:01

death so this is a sort of assisted- mediated

24:04

death where they will you'll go

24:06

there before you die and he's

24:08

actually recently on the Theo Vaughn

24:11

podcast talking about what they do

24:13

at Alcor and you

24:15

have to obviously sign waivers it's very expensive and

24:17

then they'll place your body in a form of

24:19

liquid nitrogen or you can just

24:21

put your brain in there so you have kinda two

24:24

options and it's been speculating I don't know for sure

24:26

so somebody will have to fact

24:28

check me but Bill Gates and some of the

24:30

elites have been very interested in

24:32

cryogenics and his wife Natasha

24:35

Vito more actually participated in

24:37

an experiment at the University

24:39

of Seville in Spain where

24:41

they were able to prove

24:43

that there was no

24:45

memory loss in multi cellular organisms when

24:48

they were cryonically frozen so what they

24:50

did is they froze neurons

24:53

and tissues from a multi cellular organism and

24:55

then were able to unfreeze it although it's

24:58

a little bit more technical because obviously if

25:00

it was just frozen in the way that

25:02

we think something in the freezer it would

25:05

the water would be a major problem for the

25:07

tissues and all this different stuff so there's a

25:09

different process for it and they're very emphatic

25:12

to explain this when everybody brings

25:14

it up but what they did

25:16

prove is that the memory of

25:18

something before could be maintained after it

25:20

was sort of resuscitated and so

25:22

the whole point of our core

25:24

life extension foundation is

25:26

for what they deem and what they even

25:29

describe explicitly as a form of resurrection and

25:31

that people who pay for these

25:34

services that eventually at some

25:36

point in the future whether we're able to

25:38

in their opinion upload our brains or our

25:40

minds to a

25:42

computer or be able to

25:45

totally technologically augment the human entity

25:47

that they'll be able to revive somebody

25:49

right on the brink of death before

25:51

they're frozen and they would be able

25:53

to sort of transfer them to a new body and

25:56

this is something that they believe they're making

25:58

headway in And

26:00

this is something that a lot of

26:02

money is being pushed for. And when

26:04

you look at their founders, it's many of the same

26:06

global movers and shakers that you would

26:08

suspect funding a lot of this research. Yeah,

26:12

it's just weird to me the way the

26:14

thought process of a lot of these people

26:16

is that, you know, they give the appearance

26:18

of being very logical and very rational and

26:20

sort of almost worshiping mathematics, like some sort

26:23

of weird Pythagorean cult or something. And

26:25

yet at the same time, if I were to

26:27

say, you know, I brought

26:30

the number seven with me, would you like to talk

26:32

to him? Would you like to

26:34

talk to the number seven? People would think you're

26:36

insane. They think you have a mental problem. You

26:38

can't talk to the number seven. And yet when

26:40

we think about what a computer is or what

26:42

AI is, it's really nothing more than a bunch

26:45

of nerd code. There's no

26:47

consciousness there. And yet they'll treat, well,

26:49

if we just put more nerd code

26:52

in there, eventually it'll like become, it's

26:54

like a magical thinking. If you'd like

26:56

more algorithms somehow equate to consciousness. And

26:59

I was, I recently did a lecture on Lewis

27:02

Carroll's Through the Looking Glass, which is a sequel

27:04

to Alice in Wonderland. And we

27:06

went really deep into the philosophy of that

27:08

book. He was a mathematician. And in certain

27:10

ways, I think some of his thought sort

27:13

of pre-sages where

27:15

we are now because he was

27:17

a pretty strict determinist. And

27:20

he put his mathematical

27:22

determinism into the Alice

27:25

stories. And when you get into

27:28

the later chapters of the copy that I have,

27:30

there's a reprinting of

27:33

what the tortoise said to Achilles. And

27:36

this is a famous logic problem in the history of logic,

27:39

but it overlaps with mathematics as

27:41

well because it sort

27:43

of makes the point that following upon

27:45

Zeno's paradox that you

27:49

kind of can't encapsulate some things

27:51

in sets or in math or

27:53

in logic. And it overlaps with

27:56

Gurdell's incompleteness theorems where

27:58

the sets appeal outside of And

28:01

the reason I bring all that up, there's

28:03

a famous paper that was written some decades

28:05

back, I think it's at Oxford, it's called

28:07

Mind Machines and Gurdell. And it's making the

28:10

point that some of these mathematical principles and

28:12

philosophical, logical principles that we're talking about that

28:14

you see in some of Lewis Carroll's writings,

28:16

it kind of demonstrates the impossibility of

28:19

numbers or sets ever

28:21

becoming self-aware or self-conscious. It's

28:24

not possible. It's not, it

28:26

makes no sense. That

28:28

so much of what we're talking about with

28:30

AI and transhumanism is premised

28:32

on the idea that it can

28:34

just become conscious. So

28:36

how do you see an overlap maybe with

28:39

evolutionary philosophy and transhumanism, the idea that we're

28:41

evolving, maybe even humans and robots, robots are

28:43

going to become conscious and then we're going

28:45

to meld with them like Hal in 2001

28:47

or something? Right.

28:50

I think most people in regards to that

28:52

question can be familiar with like Werner Vinge

28:55

and Ray Kurzweil's theory of the singularity, which

28:57

is built on this idea that there's going

28:59

to be this X-dimensional growth of technology

29:02

based on Moore's law and that we're going

29:04

to reach this sort of apex. And

29:06

it really is a sort of eschatological vision

29:08

of transhumanism. And this is one of the

29:10

reasons why I think it really gels well

29:12

with many of these medieval

29:15

Renaissance enlightenment ideas of utopia

29:17

because transhumanism does fit into

29:19

that quite well. And

29:24

I think it needs to be said that transhumanism,

29:26

that term and the way we understand it was

29:28

actually first said by Julian Huxley and he wrote

29:30

a book in 1957 called New Bottles for New

29:35

Wine describing what he articulated as

29:37

the religion without revelation. And

29:40

that's what transhumanism essentially is, is that

29:42

we don't longer need to deal with

29:45

revelation because revelation is occurring through our

29:47

rational apprehension of the world. But

29:50

you mentioned earlier, again, this sort

29:52

of dissolution of boundaries and this

29:54

emphasis on unity is very

29:56

much a neo-phlatonic presupposition. characterized

30:00

throughout transhumanism because they

30:03

are focused

30:05

on this unifying principle. So Ray

30:07

Kurzweil, for example, in his books,

30:10

I believe it's The Age of

30:12

Spiritual Machines, literally believes, and he

30:14

promotes this idea, that we will

30:16

all be interconnected and there will

30:18

be essentially a global hive mind

30:20

of humanity. And again,

30:22

that's another dissolution of boundaries and

30:24

this is why transhumanism is so

30:26

much in favor of androgyny and

30:28

they use the rhetoric because,

30:31

well, they're very, very supportive

30:34

of the LGBTQ enterprise

30:36

because of what they deem as

30:38

bodily autonomy. And so if you

30:40

can transition and you can change

30:43

genders, this one shows a sort

30:45

of nominal reality that these universal

30:47

characteristics don't really exist and we

30:49

can augment ourselves. But it

30:51

also highlights this push

30:53

towards doing away with traditional masculinity, as

30:56

we said, is very much principally oriented

30:58

around boundaries and the maintaining of boundaries,

31:00

whether it be men that went to

31:02

war to defend national boundaries or religious

31:04

principles or the tribe itself or their

31:07

wives and children. These are all boundaries

31:09

to some extent in which men defend

31:11

and that's also done through ideology, that's

31:13

done through religion and culture. And what

31:16

we're seeing right now through multiculturalism and

31:18

globalism, all these things are sort of

31:20

dissolutions of boundaries to some degree or another.

31:23

And post evolutionary theory

31:25

is essential to transhumanism. So I have

31:27

a handful of

31:29

like philosophical presuppositions that really

31:32

characterize transhumanism. The first one I

31:34

would say is post secularism. And

31:36

so actually the Frankfurt

31:39

School, Jurgen Habermas, who I'm not a big fan

31:41

of the Frankfurt School, but Jurgen Habermas had really

31:43

a great criticism of what

31:45

he saw as genetic engineering and

31:48

the development of CRISPR technologies and stuff like

31:50

this. And he highlighted how this was part

31:52

of the decadence of liberal democracies in the

31:54

West. But he

31:57

described transhumanism in this enterprise as

31:59

a post- secular phenomenon. So what

32:01

post secularism means is

32:03

that secularism, as most people probably

32:05

understand, is this distinction between the

32:07

religious ultimate meaning and then the

32:09

sort of secular enterprise and

32:11

the sort of public sphere and stuff. Well, because

32:15

of whether it be postmodernism, posthumanism

32:18

or post secularism, all these things

32:20

are a collapsing of boundaries again.

32:22

And so post secularism is the

32:24

collapsing of the boundary between the

32:26

religious and the secular. And Habermas

32:28

highlighted that what transhumanism is, is

32:31

because of the postmodern turn, it really

32:33

is a form of post secular meaning

32:35

making, which ultimately is a religious narrative.

32:37

And he argued that it really is

32:39

a secular faith and multiple other academics

32:41

have made this argument regarding transhumanism

32:44

as a post secular faith.

32:46

Now posthumanism is also essential. And

32:48

there's kind of a couple

32:50

competing schools within posthumanism. There's

32:52

more of the ecological

32:55

bent that's very radical and doing

32:57

away with an anthropocentric view of

32:59

the 21st century. And so

33:02

the idea is to reorient

33:04

our perception away

33:07

from what benefits mankind, generally

33:10

speaking towards like the earth or

33:12

nature or the cosmos or something like

33:14

this. And so they are wanting to

33:16

end the sort of enlightenment project

33:20

of man being the sort of

33:22

measure of all things. And transhumanism,

33:24

though posthuman because they want to

33:26

sort of transcend the limits of

33:28

biology, they do compete with

33:30

these people because many of these transhumanism

33:32

like Max Moore and Natasha Vida Moore

33:35

and Nick Bolscham, they're very outspoken of

33:37

how much they disdain postmodernism because they

33:39

view themselves as these sort of technological

33:41

scientists, philosophers that are highly rational, that

33:44

are actually doing real things in the

33:46

world with their research compared to these

33:48

postmoderns. So transhumanism

33:51

believes that it is the sort of epitome

33:53

of the enlightenment project. They are the end

33:56

point of the enlightenment. And so they're very

33:58

clear Max Moore and Nick Bolscham. that

34:01

they are sort of the fulfillment of man is the measure

34:03

of all things. And that

34:05

transhumanism then is the ability to

34:07

transcend biological constraints. And that leads

34:09

into then if you transcend biological

34:11

constraints, that leads into one of

34:13

the other pillars, which is post-evolution,

34:16

that they believe that the, of

34:18

course, they're very

34:20

Darwinian Wallace theory evolutionarily oriented

34:22

in their mindset, but they believe

34:24

that by transcending biology, they're going

34:26

to transcend the selective pressures of

34:28

evolution. Which

34:31

is for them a sort of

34:33

spiritual transcendence. It's a release from the suffering

34:35

and the constraints of the world. And

34:38

that all then how is that accomplished that comes

34:40

to this fourth pillar of dataism? It's

34:42

about the processing and ciphering and understanding of

34:44

information, which really is, I

34:46

would argue, a sort of a Gnostic

34:49

core to transhumanism, although they would certainly

34:51

not explain it that way. But

34:53

I would argue that's exactly what it is. Yeah,

34:58

I was thinking to a lot

35:01

of the essays that I wrote some years back, and

35:03

I remember writing about the overlaps

35:06

between, even though there was some

35:08

disagreement between Gnostics and Plotinus, the

35:11

basic idea here is that we're escaping

35:13

this world, escaping this reality to go

35:15

back to the source, the one,

35:17

the monad, the unity or whatever. So what

35:20

a lot of the transhumanist ideas have done in

35:22

regard to things like the metaverse and where they

35:24

want to take us with this idea of the

35:26

matrix is to really put that into the here

35:28

and the now in a technological sense. So even

35:30

though they may not believe in an afterlife or

35:32

a higher transcendent reality, the idea

35:35

is we can put man into

35:37

his own sort of virtual God world

35:39

of his own. It makes me think

35:41

of that movie, The Cell with Jennifer

35:43

Lopez, where she

35:46

goes into the mind of

35:48

the serial killer, and

35:50

in that world he's sort of his own God. And

35:53

he wants to be worshipped in that virtual

35:55

world. I think that's the ultimate offer here

35:57

for the breaking down of all boundaries. is,

36:00

well, what if you could be the god

36:02

of your own virtual mental world? Wouldn't

36:05

you want to live in that

36:07

world and not in this world?

36:09

So they're really sort of offering

36:11

this divided fake simulacrum as

36:14

a pseudo heaven, you could say almost.

36:16

Would you agree with that? That's really

36:18

why they're pushing a lot of the

36:21

brain shifts in virtual reality where they want to take things. And

36:24

you brought up Baphomet too, which again,

36:27

most tracing things of the historicity of

36:29

a sort of veneration of Baphomet kind

36:31

of goes back to the Knights Templars,

36:34

which when we look at Yakima

36:36

Fiore, his mentor was Bernard of

36:39

Clairvaux, who is by

36:41

many considered the sort of spiritual

36:43

father of the Templars. And

36:45

the Templars, I've done research looking

36:47

into esoteric spirituality and the sort

36:49

of mystery schools. And they participate

36:51

in very interesting

36:54

homoerotic initiation

36:56

ceremonies for the Templars.

36:59

And they were a

37:01

reviving of Gnosticism generally speaking. So

37:05

when you look at this

37:07

ultimate transcendence and gaining and

37:09

attaining any of these

37:11

divine qualities like omnipotence, omnipresence,

37:14

omnipresence is one that Ray Kurzweil is

37:16

very interested in in regards to the

37:18

sort of digital interconnecting of all mankind

37:20

that essentially then we become one man

37:23

or one entity around the world. And

37:25

because of that, then we have attained

37:27

the sort of divine ability of omnipresence.

37:29

And then obviously through the AI and

37:32

that becoming essentially your brain, you're going

37:34

to have omnipotence. And

37:36

this is for them always the

37:38

sort of smashing together of opposites.

37:40

This is the way in which

37:42

they view this sort of neo-platonic

37:44

presupposition of unity over multiplicity that

37:47

they worship unity. And I think from

37:49

a spiritual perspective, it becomes that they worship

37:51

themselves as you highlighted. So you're only one

37:53

person and there's a, I

37:55

think it's subtle, but it's an important point

37:58

to make that because they worship themselves. they

38:00

tend to worship pure unity

38:03

or pure monad. And

38:06

I think this could be characterized in regards to the New Age

38:08

religion, various forms

38:10

of Gnosticism, Neoplatonism, but transhumanism, I

38:12

would say, is characterized by the

38:14

same thing. Yeah,

38:18

speaking of the Huxleys, I mean, Aldous

38:20

Huxley's book, Perennial Philosophy, says

38:22

that we need to concoct or sort of

38:24

create the religion of the future

38:26

of the world's technocratic order. And he says

38:29

that what it needs to be is some

38:31

kind of ultimate big blob where

38:33

everybody just worships collectivity in

38:35

some generic monadic sense. And

38:38

the purpose is more of

38:40

a geopolitical, strategic agenda of

38:42

control than it is some

38:44

sort of, well, we really

38:46

wanna see people be enlightened. I mean, no, no,

38:48

no. If you go listen to the clip of

38:50

Terrence McKenna on YouTube, I think when I found

38:53

this clip, it really showed

38:55

me everything about Terrence McKenna. Look

38:58

at the clip where it's the discussion of

39:00

what the mushroom said to me. And

39:03

it's not what you think because

39:05

you said, well, when I spoke

39:07

to the mushroom, the mushroom told

39:09

me that we don't need less

39:12

brown people in third world countries.

39:14

It's the white soccer moms that

39:16

need to stop having babies because

39:18

of killing the planet. So

39:20

he literally says that we need to stop

39:22

having white kids because that's what's killing the

39:25

planet. So there's a geopolitical strategic agenda behind

39:27

this. Same thing if you listen

39:29

to, I remember years ago listening to mainly

39:31

P Hall's lectures on esoteric

39:33

and astrology. And the last lecture of that

39:35

whole series was him saying, oh, by the

39:37

way, the purpose of all this is that

39:39

we need a socialist world government led by

39:41

the United Nations. So we're not

39:43

getting esoteric mysteries. We're getting a geopolitical

39:46

agenda of a one world government and

39:48

technocratic agenda. I think the same thing

39:50

is going along with the transhumanists who

39:52

want to promote things like collectivism,

39:54

new age, all this so that everybody can

39:56

be merged into the hive mind. Right.

40:00

and you know we kind of mentioned some of

40:02

these early players in regards to setting the foundation

40:05

for transhumanist thought and I'd like to just. Mentioned

40:08

one one further connection I think

40:10

is really interesting regards to how

40:12

they understood mechanical technology as the

40:14

extension of divinity and so we

40:17

highlighted. In the eight

40:19

hundreds John Scott is a Regina then

40:21

we talked about Yakima Fiore and he

40:23

his dates are eleven thirty five to

40:25

twelve oh two then we get Roger

40:28

Bacon into the thirteenth century then

40:30

Henry Cornelius to grandpa this is after the Italian

40:32

Renaissance this is after the translation of the hermetic

40:34

corpus which was. Deemed

40:36

by Cosmo de Medici more important than Plato

40:39

at that time even though Latin in the

40:41

West didn't have a full reading of Plato

40:43

and he has a quote that it was

40:46

precisely this power over nature which Adam had

40:48

lost by original sin but which the purified

40:50

soul the magician could now regain and he

40:52

highlighted this in the sixteenth century and this

40:55

was sort of echoed by Paracelsus both of

40:57

those individuals. Or followers

41:00

of Yakima Fiore they're called Yakima

41:03

prophecies or Yakima it's who followed this idea

41:05

that technology was going to gain the capabilities

41:07

of God and this was the point of

41:09

mankind. Francis

41:13

Bacon then also echoes this but the book

41:15

that Francis Bacon has called the new Atlantis

41:17

one of the things that's really interesting it's

41:20

subtle but it has a lot of symbolism

41:23

related to the Rosicrucians who also had the same idea in their esoteric. Spirituality

41:27

that they were going to

41:29

blend Protestant Christianity hermetic magical

41:31

esoteric capitalistic ideas with science

41:33

and technology itself to create

41:35

utopia because the millennium was

41:37

at hand because they also

41:39

believe in the prophecies of

41:42

Yakima Fiore and so

41:44

you see books like Thomas more he

41:46

has a book called utopia. Tommaso Campanella

41:48

has one called the city of God

41:50

which literally enshrines the worship of science

41:53

and technology for the social and moral

41:55

perfection of man and then

41:57

you look into the seventeenth

41:59

century. with Johann Andrei, who

42:01

was a alchemist,

42:04

esoteric thinker. He claims

42:07

that he wrote The Chemical Wedding of Christian

42:09

Rosenkreuz, the foundation. He was the most he's

42:11

a Lutheran. Yeah.

42:14

And he wrote a book that was

42:16

again utopianistic called Christianopolis,

42:19

which literally, and this is what

42:21

I think is so interesting. He

42:23

argues that mechanical technology was the

42:25

way that man's soul would unfold

42:27

itself. So man's soul and his

42:30

image of God, his divinity, would

42:32

unfold itself through technology, therefore making

42:34

technology the sort of ladder that

42:37

we're going to climb out of the detritus

42:39

that we're in. And so we

42:43

see then, and you've mentioned this

42:45

before about the Royal Society,

42:47

but the Rosicrucians had the concept

42:50

of the invisible college. And

42:52

this actually was the precursor and many

42:54

argue, many scholars have argued the foundation

42:57

for the actual Royal Society itself, that

42:59

the Rosicrucian manifestos and many of these

43:01

manuscripts were saying that there was this

43:04

invisible college that was already underway, that

43:06

these men were working to manifest this

43:08

thing. And then it connected to the

43:10

Royal Society, I think is really interesting. It

43:13

is. Yeah. Hegel plays a key role

43:15

in that too, because Hegel's Hermetic philosophy

43:18

talks about everything sort of gradually converging

43:20

into pure spirit, which is the idea

43:22

of transcending physicality and bodily limitations. My

43:25

books, you can get those at J's

43:27

Analysis, signed copies if you find today's

43:29

topics interesting. My philosophy book

43:32

deals with that. And then follow David Patrick

43:34

Harry over on Twitter and on YouTube, Church

43:36

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