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i live in fear waiting

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for the day the i wake up to twenty

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thousand know to the case is a my phone telling

1:00

me that today's the day the internet

1:02

has decided to hate me i

1:04

, think anyone realizes how intense

1:07

a pile on his until you've experienced

1:09

one yourself or just how

1:11

terrifying trolls are until

1:13

that tap dancing their way into your dm

1:16

site today we're exploring what it feels

1:19

like to be on the receiving end of

1:21

the internet wrath i

1:23

might be thoughts and this thoughts is

1:26

this a thicker stay on radio

1:29

five live and bbc some

1:35

today i'm

1:37

joined by model influenza and podcast

1:40

highest honor the keeley he starred

1:42

in season five of love island

1:45

aka my dream interview

1:48

high outta oh

1:50

, hi this

1:53

hi i watched the entire

1:56

season big fan i think

1:58

our first question is what made you

2:00

apply for love island

2:02

i'm so actually didn't apply

2:04

love island i got matthews

2:06

i've got a d and non program on

2:09

a weekend in the thing lacking and

2:11

post he pitches here and there but yeah i was it

2:13

she and the pharmacy working and i got yemen

2:15

all that bitcoin is is this or this a scam

2:18

was not sure you and then so called

2:20

me and they were yeah i tv

2:21

and we what happened did they just straight

2:23

offer or did they were they convince

2:25

he to apply know what i'd

2:27

we have a like a chat with you about

2:29

you know i love i named him if he'd be interested

2:31

in sorry and and and i was like oh my god wow

2:33

wow i like we thought was like the only tv

2:36

show the i religiously watched those

2:38

like okay source at least i went

2:40

into the consultation mean that day

2:42

at work and to shut myself

2:44

in the office my twenty minutes and had a phone call with them

2:47

and then it just plan for matter what we want to come

2:49

in and yet

2:51

what one it like getting all of that

2:53

attention

2:54

though

2:55

we play it

2:57

might be tell you that but you never really prepared

3:00

for it like it's to so surreal

3:02

if you go in or bomb has an effect

3:05

on out the strangest

3:07

thing but come out especially the first

3:09

few months if you cannot walk around the she without

3:12

people stopping it every few minutes and if i

3:14

walk off and whatnot

3:16

lot going on when it difficult to

3:18

kind of come up say guess you're like cut off

3:20

from the you go and let me say this and

3:23

in the pharmacist than your part of from the world

3:25

and then you come out and everyone

3:27

has been on twitter every night the

3:30

new doing police dame

3:32

and allah says where he surprised by

3:35

how as people analyzed and criticized

3:37

yeah alternately ice i think

3:39

the fast like seen i didn't even see

3:41

by was just browsing the insect like looking

3:44

trying , catch up on two months

3:46

worth of like like

3:48

and there's not like twitter

3:51

adam the trees and trees

3:53

, gael like this is not great eating

3:55

there was not upon

3:59

are you know what it is

4:02

like people have like it's to say about you

4:04

which on the looks don't

4:06

bother me when people to for my taxes on like whatever

4:09

but when they talk about my chart site

4:11

that bothers me more in this like

4:13

that's not me is me is

4:16

in the same way to see i mean yeah

4:19

yeah that was my next question

4:21

was how how does it feel and people make judgments

4:23

on think yeah edited

4:26

that's know yeah the

4:28

whole story i mean that was

4:30

the hardest part about it because it's

4:32

like in a whole twenty four hours though take though

4:34

take or two minutes what they want to search

4:37

and you know what the more more island coming

4:39

out and the more more island is i doing

4:41

into the i think

4:44

it sure is showing the public more

4:46

public more this is a show and we are

4:48

nothing like

4:49

deposited the alia me off i

4:51

am by go with something they have countries a

4:53

whole nice to me as well the pool that

4:56

the

5:00

then whoa what was the worst of

5:02

the trolling for you personally

5:04

so yeah i think the me

5:06

personally it was the carrots

5:08

are like

5:09

when people wanted to make assumptions of my character

5:12

that , it upset me

5:14

the most scientists are things are time negative

5:16

on sundays or not but they didn't know

5:19

the full story of a situation didn't

5:21

see me asking job

5:24

and laugh and about the the law that for a with obviously

5:26

this the scenes of like me having

5:28

the drama as

5:30

and so yes that they'll that

5:33

for me but like all honesty like having of the school

5:35

system my sister that sony

5:37

sony i'm is has made me stronger

5:39

now did it like

5:42

he did it affect the people around here to

5:44

have an effect on your sister in your family i

5:47

think want you all places to stay strong i think

5:49

and i think i needed had to

5:51

be strong for me and i became

5:53

some box and but yeah exactly

5:56

that my mom's and ah digital digital

5:58

i see me right well no

6:00

not fair make what they did it would affect them

6:02

a lot but yeah after while

6:05

my what matters is that of about six months it's months

6:07

it's like get back to normal mean

6:09

i guess it's some something like

6:11

see what happened to you have like

6:13

a and the villa and you know being just

6:16

down to the editing i guess social media

6:18

kind of gives you your power back

6:20

to clean them they do the

6:23

real you and clinic clarify the narrative

6:25

this d think social media companies

6:27

do enough to protect people

6:30

from the obese

6:32

that minutely normal i mean no

6:35

way know it's ,

6:37

and so we've been like one little thing if you found

6:39

your story and block the store your soul

6:42

eater take post down but he still

6:44

can't stop foes that is weird

6:47

am , that that you know and i think

6:49

even in terms of like so my counts

6:51

on social media like i said i wasn't

6:53

wasn't and includes the before so i

6:55

didn't know really what to do that platform

6:57

to show my sights on he like what you do just power

7:00

like backstory i was there it was very

7:02

difficult for me to show my taxes to that's why i'm so

7:04

grateful now that i even be able to do

7:06

like podcast and stuff like that

7:09

the be up to show myself more

7:11

more

7:12

why nice i guess to the

7:14

the nuke contests is coming out of islands of

7:16

let we live in this world where these things

7:18

can happen when you just get sky rocketed

7:21

to having all of these people

7:23

watching and judging a like i

7:25

that they had like a mini version of that where

7:27

i went viral a the locked down and

7:29

is that is so nice and neat and go from

7:32

the going it nothing to some the all

7:34

of these people having an opinion on you and expecting

7:36

things me what advice would you

7:39

give to people in in

7:41

that sits you in having to deal

7:43

with troll for the first time sergeant

7:46

when you first not the sergio being told

7:48

really bad it might be done i was one of them

7:50

were cleveland pro told

7:53

as fancy say sunlight

7:56

they can get back on so like

7:58

it might be a lot of plane

7:59

that would have been told that are gonna disappear

8:02

but it does what you mean

8:04

, amount of trolling the gas such as

8:06

hold tight tightly i'm

8:09

second he just realized that those people

8:11

are trolling you to habit actual

8:13

issues you know they they have problems

8:16

and that's why they taking out

8:18

that year and though it relies on years

8:20

and just remember how lucky you on

8:22

bless you all all them to be told

8:25

you there's obviously something thing they want

8:27

from you had done and so you know such

8:30

as pricey the other side of their and it's just

8:32

honestly it's the truth is not eat

8:34

according he sang name as dot u

8:36

as the opinion i

8:38

wouldn't say opinion is that jealousy or

8:40

the issue that they secretly just as

8:42

was i'm anti stay

8:45

strong and honesty will make

8:47

you stronger try not to look

8:49

at the comment i'd say if you can

8:52

the company is also the best advice i'm

8:54

one of the best things i did is by onto my

8:56

i'm setting and block loads

8:59

of horrible eggs yeah like

9:03

i said you're going and block lose more

9:05

will add luggage

9:07

are you

9:09

i'm on set it up again and badly

9:11

like bad comments with his and will brock

9:14

so we're back head brewer

9:17

case to cool the causes online

9:19

for us in and she said that it

9:21

was affecting her children as well as ha

9:24

died i

9:26

don't know in the in would like the idea that

9:29

in party i would have done it but like with

9:31

a budgetary moon eisner it

9:33

wanted them times a but i guess that some

9:36

out in i'm in i would like

9:38

to the way but the this is like if he's a message

9:40

out that everyone i met this is what happens if you do

9:42

as a proxy cases if cases if

9:45

on

9:49

image backers first place trial

9:51

into the a c said at it's worst

9:54

i was worried the on my own to

9:56

leave the house the get beyond

9:59

public place

9:59

even the smallest things like

10:02

going shopping was horrendous a

10:05

big factor in this whole the him

10:07

what we keep reminding ourselves is that

10:09

rebecca had a horrible time

10:11

online i'm a nice why she say she

10:13

was so determined to clear her name

10:15

side to find out more about how people

10:18

can seek justice in the face of online throws

10:20

i spoke to an internet and so the media

10:22

lawyer could

10:25

you just introduce yourself and what he day

10:27

my name is yeah your car when i'm

10:29

a lawyer i specialize

10:31

in internet and social media long

10:34

he lived are many of

10:37

the harassment cases on the

10:39

internet social media companies

10:41

how people are navigate

10:44

through all sorts of trouble they might be

10:46

having on gameplay

10:47

hi i'm i'm why did he decide to specifically

10:50

work on t this we got a cyber bullying

10:52

and harassment

10:53

about twelve years ago

10:56

i was approached by a lady called

10:58

nicola unequal a broods see

11:01

, experiencing tremendous

11:04

tremendous of amount susan

11:06

very well i'm i'm busy

11:09

she said some some said issues siegelman

11:11

didn't have post on didn't have

11:14

and dots are resulted in

11:16

our in a lot of a lot of harassment

11:19

sitter now pre sale for big

11:21

folders of of abuse she was receiving

11:23

spans use really do very first

11:25

days off serious

11:28

saw harassment on the internet

11:30

the rebel played idols the very

11:32

first case remains an application

11:35

to the courts for facebook

11:37

to disclose the identity of online trolls

11:40

and , did manage to our power and

11:42

asta dot case i was

11:44

very clear to me that tom dual

11:47

dual certainly a need

11:49

for someone who could specialize in

11:51

this area of law and

11:53

us person happens to be me

11:56

see got my first really

11:58

wish he a celebrity or it just like a normal

12:01

person on faith that

12:02

no legal

12:05

, you can be able to read

12:07

about ah so soon

12:09

as a single mom from my brighton

12:12

same sit com and be don't know

12:14

a common putting a guy called front

12:17

dicocco zoc who

12:19

i remember him right out of

12:21

ah so nobody today is

12:24

t v say they're i now my you

12:26

see yeah yeah yeah

12:28

but but you know he who used i see a

12:30

lot of abuse are any time

12:33

ah and secret of stood up for up

12:35

ah a and after she stood offering

12:38

she started to receive a barrage

12:40

of views i me to an

12:42

army twin on for years be a

12:44

just wouldn't stop and as it and out

12:48

the main troll who

12:50

are roster was of police officers

12:53

nine all yeah

12:54

wow because i was about to ask

12:56

like does that is it fair to the police always

12:58

have to be able to to clients sometimes just come straight

13:01

year why does know because and

13:03

my sister in law is a police officer

13:05

and she's had people come to

13:07

have full where they've had a sees online

13:10

and abuse on line and it's a real

13:12

struggle for them to kind of prosecute

13:14

or i'll do anything about it because and

13:17

to say something about like they can prove it's

13:19

a certain phone but can they prove that it's

13:21

thought person kind of thing so

13:24

that's eyes interest see whether the police had to be able to

13:26

use these people just go straight to lawyers

13:28

we are more and more cases

13:30

where they don't bother

13:32

even go to the police anymore but i don't

13:34

wanna singular police and own obviously

13:38

the a finger is a logical

13:40

reason why the police's i'm able to help

13:42

i'm in in dot is mainly because

13:45

very often those type of case

13:47

is involved huge amount of evidence

13:49

i'm dealing now i in there

13:51

we the case we do a thirty to fifty

13:54

thousand screenshots ah of

13:57

harassment now this now this lot

13:59

of evidence the go through everything

14:01

to analyze it to categorize

14:03

a to preserve it to save it in a way

14:07

that , be able to use

14:09

it and reuse it it is not enough

14:11

just to familiarize yourself with the evidence

14:13

evidence will need to be used i'd caught

14:16

by beyond appealing and in a lot so

14:19

so also me now in fraud cases

14:22

for example they will be are especially

14:24

unit in the police sign

14:26

to handle this , of

14:28

cases with large amount of evidence

14:31

but but online harassment harassment

14:33

don't really see the building a bomb

14:35

split a monetary a you

14:38

can justify putting a theme of say twenty

14:40

five thirty specific fraud

14:43

investigators into a multimillion

14:45

pound bank fraud ah

14:48

but the police cannot justify putting

14:50

this type of resources into

14:53

handling a case of

14:56

maybe a single a single mom

14:59

has , harassed and abuse for ten

15:01

years ah and and

15:03

then these other cities balance

15:06

balance you know do we put those amount

15:09

of resources into that oh

15:11

do we not ah and police

15:13

and thing besides that the just not

15:15

the way to do it

15:16

they do you think that the

15:19

people and especially public figures

15:21

has many other options

15:24

when it comes to dealing with that troves

15:27

is very few options for anyone

15:29

who's been unfortunate enough

15:31

to , a victim of a

15:34

a of online trolls victim

15:36

of doc thing you know where where

15:39

people can i got the public information

15:41

about you about your family about your children

15:43

and pluto online a

15:46

revenge porn at the

15:48

moment other than going see

15:50

a specialist lawyer and then

15:53

go go and through the process of through

15:55

of process with which is a very can unfortunately

15:58

it is very unfortunate it's

16:00

so unfair same it could be expensive

16:03

and it's time consuming and dance

16:06

and any just not the right way forward

16:08

in my view

16:11

the i guess in this case cleaned it all as

16:13

you work for you see data all

16:15

of that sleeping in kind of works

16:17

out who was leaking stories

16:19

that then it was rebecca who

16:21

brought the case against a d thing rebecca

16:24

would have been better off trying

16:26

to bring a case against some of

16:28

her was troll rather than to

16:30

leave with with dot been a better case

16:33

it depends on case is all about the case

16:35

was the think about about

16:38

trust about a circle

16:40

of trust

16:42

yeah c d these you would have had a strong the case

16:44

is it taking the case about

16:46

patrolling rather than focusing

16:49

on clearing her name

16:51

because i guess nevada we can say is

16:53

that she , involved

16:55

she did know about s so would it

16:58

have been better for her to kind of explore

17:00

case against the

17:02

trolling see received rather than against

17:05

clean as i guess

17:06

yes yes or even daughter

17:08

was in he shouldn't bother the earth to

17:10

dot sort of experience absolutely

17:13

and yellow suit a being sued have been probably

17:15

successfully night and defying some of

17:17

the trolls making him example

17:19

out of a few them from ,

17:22

having dealt with similar cases

17:24

with similar type of people have

17:26

been have reason was so

17:28

some reason rather than any anything

17:30

else here so you're absolutely right he

17:33

knows cpt the wrong case

17:35

possibly

17:36

this is gonna change

17:39

the way we interact online now

17:40

it may be these cases is

17:42

i'm i'm sorry to disappoint everyone the

17:44

us be in illinois they get is a

17:47

the curse is is is is zero

17:49

be oh absolutely i really have ah

17:53

sorry clean and wouldn't get it did you

17:55

know the cases at an impact on

17:57

impact on number of people are

17:59

particularly the involve bill

18:03

moyers the phrase

18:06

but zero zero

18:08

impacts

18:10

he diving it's can encourage people to be a bit more

18:12

careful with what they say and

18:14

do online now

18:15

the case was really about about

18:17

league teams private information if

18:20

you think about it

18:21

that he would also about how he leaned decided

18:23

to reveal how discovery i guess

18:26

i'm whether she should have done that as a public

18:28

instagram post or whether she should

18:30

have dealt with it privately

18:32

would you have done benefits

18:34

there are hundreds i wanted a republican from pace

18:37

and then the only regret is it and

18:39

i see

18:42

any angry and he gave his must be revealed

18:45

and then it and then it will backfire us

18:47

of how i usually do things by

18:49

usually city data against the hell are

18:51

people not going to be considering more before

18:54

they do cool someone out online

18:56

yeah to look look look super you

18:58

think are a scribe is a curry sunni

19:00

when you do something i that when you call someone

19:02

a liar on the internet for when you

19:04

make any any substance use a sense

19:07

you have to be pretty

19:10

confident that you have you have the evidence

19:14

wow that was a whirlwind

19:16

of legal troll talk but i learned

19:19

so much fascinating terrifying

19:22

in equal measure i'm ah

19:24

because and this is same

19:26

it's legacy christie

19:29

radio five live and b b

19:31

c serums the

19:34

hive, my dad, christy

19:36

stands may be too late for

19:38

me to be trying to work that out final

19:41

verdict has been in the

19:43

wii games take a break for a a while i'll

19:45

try not to miss me much

19:49

you hear have high-profile celebrity

19:51

dramas, that make a good 20

19:53

episode, lonely, your podcast, you

19:56

know what? if i have a great

19:58

by by