0:30

welcome back to the indie wood podcast

0:33

. I am yarrow , I am a director writer

0:35

. With me I have , uh , cena

0:37

wild actor , producer , writer

0:40

. So we talked about , uh , crafting

0:42

material for ourselves or our own

0:44

material , our own short stories , our own features

0:46

. And you mentioned something about

0:48

writing . But you know , and

0:51

for me I've always heard people

0:54

jumping into to writing . They

0:56

were like , oh , write what I know

0:59

. But I don't know anything and

1:01

I'm like , well , it's oh , you're a firefighter

1:03

, so you write about firefighters . Yeah , that's a small

1:06

part of writing what you know , but for me it's it's

1:08

bringing life experiences into into

1:11

your stories , to to bring in , you

1:13

know , like , for me , I have a very

1:15

unique experience , uh

1:18

, with with my family and I utilize

1:20

that to craft my stories

1:23

. I think I use , not

1:25

it literally , not the oh . You

1:27

know , I had an argument with my folks

1:29

and now it's a story . It's more about kind

1:31

of the relationship , interactions

1:34

and those they bring into certain moments and

1:36

scenes . It doesn't necessarily have to be the full story but

1:38

it's . You know , I'm relying on the experiences of my life

1:41

to make a world feel lived in

1:43

. But

1:48

then you mentioned something that was kind of interesting is sometimes

1:50

we write because we need to take something dramatic , maybe , or something uncomfortable

1:53

, and we put it into script

1:56

and film in order

1:58

to be rid of it . So it's not weighing us down , but

2:00

then , if it's successful , it's

2:02

there and you're living with it for a while , especially

2:05

because films take a long time to do and

2:07

sometimes you're with even a short film . You're with

2:09

a short film for years . How

2:11

do you feel about this idea

2:13

of writing something to get it out of

2:15

your insides

2:18

but then having to live with it for a long time ? And how do you

2:20

manage it ?

2:21

I think it's a really

2:23

interesting topic and

2:25

I think that , going back to

2:27

the writing , what you know , in

2:30

a way you can only write what you know

2:32

because you're seeing it from

2:34

your point of view , from your perspective

2:36

this is , I mean , every writer

2:39

that's ever written anything . It's from their experience

2:41

, it's from their point of view , it's

2:48

from their , and that's why it's good , unless if you're writing something

2:50

that you're detached from it . I think that there is usually

2:52

an issue like other people can't

2:54

really . It's like the whole idea . The more

2:56

personal you make it , the more , the

2:58

more general it becomes . So

3:00

making

3:02

it really personal will touch

3:04

more people , because we're all human

3:07

. We pretty much all go through the same stuff

3:09

. The

3:11

how is what's interesting , but

3:14

that's why , when you're really going through

3:16

it , you

3:18

will know the how of it as well . So

3:21

when something is really hard

3:24

, I mean , one thing that they used to tell

3:26

us in drama school too , was like put

3:29

your heartbreak into your art , put

3:32

it there and then heal your heart

3:34

by that .

3:36

Therapy without the life .

3:38

Exactly which . In

3:40

a way , I love that , but

3:43

there is that part that's like it can

3:45

be dangerous . Yes , because it's also like

3:47

, well , I want to live a happy life , I don't want to

3:49

keep on Thinking about this traumatic

3:51

moment that is terrible , and reliving

3:54

it and never letting it go . Because how

3:56

do you let it go if you're working

3:58

on it all the time , working

4:01

on it all the time ? So my approach to

4:03

this is a little bit somewhere in the

4:05

middle , because

4:15

, also , I think that , in order for the piece to be served the best , you have to have a little bit of detachment

4:17

, of growing to . If , let's say , you're walking

4:19

down a line , you're not in the beginning of the line

4:22

, you're somewhere in the middle , closer to

4:24

the end , when you're writing about it , so

4:26

you've had some resolve on

4:28

it , on the subject , so you're able

4:31

to see it from . Oh right

4:33

, I was there . Now I'm here .

4:35

Liz , yeah , you've emotionally progressed

4:37

. You're utilizing it after you've healed

4:40

.

4:40

Yes , I think so . I think that that's important

4:43

. And if you're not , if you're

4:45

doing it after you've healed yes , I think so . I think that that's important

4:47

. And if you're not , if you're doing it while you're doing it

4:49

and while you're healing . While you're healing and while you're in pain

4:51

and it makes you feel better

4:53

, that's great too , because

4:55

that's healing and that's more important than anything

4:58

. No-transcript

5:28

. I think it's important

5:31

to do something else at the

5:33

same time that takes

5:35

you out of it , that reminds

5:38

you that , all right , I

5:40

can do this , that makes me feel good , that reminds

5:43

me that there's more to my life than this event

5:45

. There's more to me than

5:47

this situation , because

5:50

I don't think it's very healthy

5:52

to get so wrapped up and

5:54

24-7 in

5:57

that perspective , because

5:59

it completely

6:01

envelops you when I

6:03

write sometimes .

6:05

I've never been diagnosed with ADD

6:07

or anything like that , but I

6:10

feel like there must be something in

6:12

that realm , because I either

6:14

have a hard time focusing

6:17

on doing something that's important to me greenwriting

6:19

or I hyper-focus and

6:22

the days just go on . Important to me , green writing or a hyper focus and like , uh , the

6:24

day's just gone , sure , and so my , my , my

6:26

current project of myself

6:29

, um , is to find

6:31

a way to trigger this , this ability

6:33

to hyper focus , and then

6:35

pull out of it after like an hour or two , and

6:37

I'm trying to make it a superpower instead of like a

6:39

not yes

6:42

and um . To add

6:44

to what you were saying about kind of , you know , write

6:47

something traumatic

6:50

in order to , kind of , you know , maybe heal from it . Or maybe

6:52

, you know , you're kind of grown away from it

6:54

. I had a moment in my life where

6:56

I had , uh

6:58

, there's something traumatic , but something that bummed me

7:01

out , sure , you , you know , and I

7:04

wrote a movie about it , yeah , but it wasn't necessarily

7:06

a movie about that literal event . I

7:09

had a feeling of wanting to run away

7:11

, and I remembered that

7:13

line from Futurama where he goes I

7:15

don't want to be on this planet anymore , and

7:18

so I wrote a movie about going to Mars and

7:22

it became something more , I think

7:24

, from that . But I really tried to

7:27

condense the feeling of my experience

7:29

and then make a movie

7:31

about that .

7:32

Totally .

7:33

The literal story makes it's completely

7:36

unrelated , but that feeling

7:38

was the same and I think maybe you know that's another

7:40

way to look at right . What you know is I

7:42

wanted someone else to have that feeling absolutely

7:44

.

7:44

You know , like I completely

7:47

agree with what you're saying , because the short that I

7:49

that I just finished is

7:52

about , I thought that I was dying

7:54

. I felt like I was dying from

7:56

the heartbreak and I was like I

7:58

think , and then that's how it

8:00

started .

8:01

It's not literally the

8:03

same thing it's about for

8:06

people who didn't listen to the last episode it's a movie

8:09

about everyone having

8:11

an app a mandatory app on

8:13

their phone that tells you when you're going to die yeah , and

8:15

you get a courtesy call 24 hours before . And

8:18

it's a movie about a woman played

8:20

by you .

8:21

Um , getting that courtesy

8:23

call , yeah and I

8:26

, I it goes exactly with what

8:28

you're saying , that it doesn't have to be a literal thing

8:30

, but it's just like listen to the

8:32

feeling , because the feeling will also tell

8:34

you creatively . Because sometimes

8:37

people are like but I don't know how to write and I don't

8:39

know how to get ideas , and

8:41

it's like just sit with

8:43

every . I really truly believe

8:46

that , especially actors , because they they

8:48

reach so many scrims that

8:50

it just exercises that

8:53

part of your brain that you're like how

8:56

the stories are the same , they're all like

8:58

there's no virgin idea anymore

9:00

and it's not about that . So

9:02

so it's like yeah

9:05

, sure , people will be like , oh , yeah , I've heard that

9:07

before . And so who cares ? It's like

9:09

but that's your version of it and I

9:11

think it's so important

9:14

and yeah

9:17

.

9:17

Another thing I want to kind of unpack is

9:20

, you know , sometimes maybe what I

9:22

quote , unquote , write what I know is a little more

9:24

literal . You know , I

9:26

have a really strong relationship with my mom and so

9:28

a lot of my stories are about women

9:30

and I feel like it's it's

9:33

me trying to unpack what

9:35

my mom did for me , like in a good way you

9:37

know how much she gave me and then how

9:39

much growth I had because of her but

9:42

also , like you know , trying to understand the

9:44

female perspective , because I'm like a dude , you know

9:46

, straight cis man , yeah , and

9:48

sometimes it's hard to

9:51

to be like can I write a story

9:53

about a woman ? But I'm not really

9:55

writing a story about a woman

9:57

. I'm writing about , sure , you know , and

9:59

, and , uh , or even

10:01

that feeling of like parent

10:04

to child . I don't necessarily write like

10:06

, oh , I can write women better , like , no , no , it's not about that

10:08

. It's about me unpacking , like , what

10:11

it feels like to be a mother , what it feels like

10:13

to be a parent , what it feels

10:15

like to be a son , you know , and so

10:17

those are all different movies and all different stories . I

10:19

write stories not necessarily

10:22

about a mother or about

10:24

what it feels like to be a mother or a woman . But that feeling

10:26

, sure , you know , like I wrote a movie

10:28

about , uh , a mother going after

10:30

a superhero because he accidentally

10:33

killed her daughter and when he

10:35

was finding his nemesis and you

10:37

know I wrote that about like , kind

10:40

of , from this feeling that I got from my mom is , is

10:42

what does it feel like ? To

10:44

be so overprotective or to even , you know

10:46

, lose something like

10:49

that because of the relationship we have . It's a little unique

10:51

, you know , not to kind of you know air my laundry

10:53

to everybody on pod , but like

10:55

it is a unique relationship

10:58

that's different from any other relationship I've seen people

11:00

have with their monsters . And so I wrote

11:02

this story and it feels lived

11:05

in and it feels alive and the character feels

11:07

alive because it's like I'm refracting

11:10

it through the prism of my own craft

11:13

. Yeah , and it's

11:16

sometimes hard because there's a lot of baggage

11:18

there to unpack , sure , but it doesn't

11:20

necessarily have to feel like that

11:23

experience . Like you said , it

11:25

can be a feeling , absolutely , you know , and

11:27

when

11:29

we explore stories that are difficult

11:32

for us , the thing that we have to relive , but

11:34

that feeling can be transformed into a story

11:36

.

11:36

Yeah , and I

11:39

think it can be an amazing

11:41

way to heal , for sure , and

11:44

that's great , because if that's the

11:46

purpose , then that's perfect .

11:49

but it can also be a

11:51

little dangerous to get stuck in it yeah so

11:54

I think it's important to take

11:57

score a little bit of that to add to that

11:59

and kind of piggybacking off of the previous

12:01

episode . It doesn't have to go anywhere

12:04

, you can just be done with it and it disappears into

12:06

the , totally , the balcony , the shelf

12:08

of your creative world life . Yeah

12:10

, and it's gone . And and uh

12:12

, it doesn't necessarily necessarily have to be

12:14

a movie . Uh , in college

12:17

I was a singer-songwriter and

12:19

, like , I played over mics , I did shows

12:21

, but I wrote music

12:23

. I think I wrote like I don't

12:25

know 50 songs , oh wow , over

12:28

the course of a couple of years , all because it was just therapy

12:30

. I was like I need to get this out . I

12:32

had all these things to say and I did it and

12:35

then when I was done , I put

12:37

my guitar down and I didn't play ever

12:39

. I still tinker every now and then , but I

12:41

don't have this incessant pull to

12:44

like it doesn't need to come out .

12:46

Yeah , wow .

12:47

And with screenwriting it does . I

12:50

think I've transferred this output

12:53

into screenwriting . That's amazing

12:55

, yeah , and I think this is

12:57

something kind of similar . You know , that's

12:59

happening with you is are an actor

13:01

, it's okay , and

13:04

you had a really robust

13:06

career . And then , you

13:09

know , in episode two you were talking about

13:11

how people were like write it , you write it .

13:13

Yeah , I mean it was . I really was

13:16

like I don't know where to start . I have no idea

13:18

.

13:18

How did , how did you come to this

13:21

concept of write what you ?

13:22

know , because

13:25

it was honestly in the frontal

13:27

part of my brain and I couldn't

13:29

. I think that I'm a little

13:32

OCD , so

13:34

I can't stop obsessive

13:36

thoughts sometimes and

13:38

it was a part to get

13:40

it out of the head and

13:43

that was , I think , one reason

13:46

why yeah , because if you have

13:48

something that's important in your life , or difficult

13:50

, yeah , you think about it all the time and

13:52

then you have to put it on paper and

13:54

you know , when I think of any writer

13:57

that I love screenwriter , novelist

14:00

, whatever they

14:02

do write about their experience , so

14:04

it's that's what I'm

14:06

drawn to . So , like I

14:08

think my favorite writer is Henry

14:10

Miller , so , and he so

14:13

writes what he's going like , it's

14:15

autobiographical . So it's

14:17

to me , and the way that he

14:19

writes it is because that's how he experiences

14:21

it , that's how he the eyes

14:24

that he sees through it . So to me I'm like

14:26

that's great . And in a way it's

14:28

almost like people can be like oh , that's so

14:30

self-involved or this or that , and it's like , well

14:32

, how are you going to ? If you try

14:35

to do something ? Maybe someone that's really skilled

14:37

and has incredible imagination

14:39

they can do that , but for

14:42

me I don't know how to do

14:44

that . I just don't . I just write

14:46

what I know and what

14:48

I feel , like it's taking over

14:50

my life in

14:53

said moment in time .

14:54

Yeah , I do want to mention

14:57

something about writing what you know , because

14:59

I've seen a couple of movies in the last

15:01

couple of years , one recently that came

15:03

out about a

15:05

civil war , wink , wink . And

15:10

there are these creatives

15:12

who have really strong opinions . I

15:14

don't necessarily think that maybe

15:18

that statement is quote , unquote

15:20

, in touch , and I don't want to say these people

15:22

are out of touch and some that's not what I'm saying

15:24

, but but they're , they're really

15:27

kind of clear , distinct opinions about

15:30

issues that are very complicated . Sure

15:33

, and it's not

15:35

just you know civil war . Now , alex

15:37

Garland , cause you know from what he made was

15:39

, from what I've heard , I haven't seen the film yet , alex Garland , because

15:41

you know from what he made was , from what I've heard , I haven't seen the film yet , but you know I haven't

15:43

seen the film yet because it's a difficult thing for me to watch due

15:46

to , you know , the war in Ukraine and

15:48

me having family in Russia and Ukraine . I

15:51

just didn't want to see it yet . And

15:53

so he made a statement . From

15:56

everything that I've kind of heard about you know war

15:58

and

16:03

for me , having experienced it was , it was like I disagree with that and I

16:05

still have to see it to really kind of you know , understand

16:07

where he was coming from , um , but I sometimes think

16:09

that , you know , there

16:12

are things that are off limits . Oh

16:14

yeah , you know when you are like I have an opinion

16:17

, I'm smart , I

16:19

make movies . I'm sorry , I don't . I don't feel like I'm . I

16:21

don't want to feel like I'm talking crap about Alex Garland

16:23

. He's a great filmmaker , but you

16:25

know , there is , I think , a limit where

16:27

people think that , oh , I know , I'm

16:30

going to write what I know , but then I don't think

16:32

that there's this depth of feeling

16:34

and knowledge and experience to really

16:37

make it feel black

16:39

, you know and it's true , and then sometimes

16:42

, when it's not complex , it doesn't register

16:45

, feels out of touch , yeah , so

16:47

that can happen , for sure .

16:48

And I mean , I think that there is also something

16:50

to be said about the world

16:53

we live in right now . People are so careful

16:55

about saying anything that they're not

16:57

saying anything . So it's like I

16:59

will do 35 focus groups so that no

17:01

one's offended , yeah , but then nothing

17:04

is said because no one's

17:06

offended , and that's something too

17:09

, and it's like okay . So we

17:11

are in

17:13

a very sensitive era

17:15

right now that , um , it , there's the good

17:17

side of it , there's the

17:19

good side of it , there is the bad

17:21

side of it there's . With

17:24

these big subjects , I think that it becomes

17:26

more complicated , but for something

17:29

that I feel like it , personal

17:31

, personal , yeah , my personal thought

17:33

is that people are becoming a little scared

17:35

to be personal , yeah , and

17:38

that's where it's a problem

17:40

, like it's like I'd rather talk

17:42

about the big things that are out there instead

17:44

of what's going on here , which is really

17:47

what you're going through and what

17:49

everyone , what all of us , is the human experience

17:51

, and I think that that is

17:53

I don't really get . I don't . I

17:56

lose interest in the things that

17:58

aren't personal these days , because everyone

18:00

is so afraid to be personal .

18:03

I want to say that maybe you know it's

18:05

firstly , it's a complicated issue

18:07

that takes . It's going to take a lot longer

18:09

to unpack than the time we have left for this

18:12

episode . But you're right , I think

18:14

you know there's maybe a

18:16

social need to have an opinion or

18:18

to you know back a

18:20

certain take . And

18:23

then maybe you know , because we're so informed

18:25

now there's so much information and misinformation

18:28

out there . You know , how do you

18:30

stay informed and then have a

18:32

experience about it and then

18:34

write about it . Yeah , it's like , well , I

18:36

think maybe that's not necessarily the

18:39

process . It's

18:41

not about like , oh , I have an experience about

18:43

you know American politics

18:45

, so let me write about it . Like , no , no , how do you

18:47

feel ? Yeah , do you feel scared , you

18:50

know ? Do you feel , you

18:52

know , happy ? Do you feel like

18:54

what is your personal experience

18:56

? And that's Totally

18:59

Like .

18:59

how does it influence you on your daily life ? How do you

19:01

? How does it influence you on your daily life ? How do you ? How does it make

19:04

you drink your tea ? like you

19:06

know , like how does it all like

19:08

? It's just I think that that's

19:11

the actor in me that becomes like

19:13

how you see this

19:15

thing is how ? Because it's true

19:17

, if you're depressed , how are you

19:19

gonna drink your teas different than

19:21

if you're really joyful ? Yeah

19:23

, it's , and

19:25

that's the art in it . Like

19:28

, what kind of color are you going to use

19:30

? It's not just green . What kind of green

19:32

? Like what kind of whatever

19:35

? So it's the details .

19:37

Yeah , you know , yeah , I like that , you

19:39

know it's . It's kind of

19:41

silly to think like , oh , how do , oh , how do you have breakfast in

19:43

the morning if you're happy and you're sad . But

19:45

when it comes to writing screenplays

19:49

, that's an important perspective

19:55

to have that

19:58

can be reflected onto

20:00

your story . It doesn't necessarily

20:02

have to be literal .

20:03

No .

20:04

But you know it can color a moment , it

20:06

can color a scene , it can color a whole story arc

20:08

and I think you know

20:10

when we want to break it down . It's

20:12

a more complicated issue . You know it's

20:15

not just like , oh , you know how

20:17

to be sad , Write that Right

20:22

, right , right . You know what it feels like to be a man or a woman or a

20:25

person of color or , you know , an immigrant . Uh , you know it . It's right that

20:27

it's .

20:28

It's more feeling it's , it's more

20:30

, and there's something also to be said

20:32

. What's really cool is writing

20:35

the opposite . So when you're feeling

20:38

a certain way to just do

20:40

it , because it's

20:42

almost like when , when , on camera , as

20:44

an actor , you're

20:46

supposed to like , you know you're talking

20:48

about something sad and instead of trying to make yourself

20:51

cry , it's trying to make yourself not

20:53

cry . Interesting . So that

20:55

is the most interesting

20:57

. Uh , way can you ?

21:00

unpack that a bit more , like so , when you're

21:02

either acting on a scene that's supposed to

21:04

be a sad moment or writing uh , a

21:07

scene that's supposed to be a sad moment . When you do

21:09

the opposite , what does that mean , can you ?

21:11

it means that it's the survivor in you

21:13

, because we do this in life every , every day

21:15

. If , if you something

21:17

is really bad

21:19

, like you're feeling bad or you're ashamed

21:21

or you're trying to overcome it , you're not trying

21:23

to stay in it . So

21:25

the more you act from that

21:28

perspective , the better it becomes , because

21:30

it's so active in you that it's going

21:32

to come out anyway .

21:33

In a certain way , you're not suppressing

21:36

it , but you're kind of suppressing it .

21:38

You're trying to overcome it , suppressing

21:44

it . You're trying to overcome it , you're , you're like actually , if , if you're , if you

21:46

are about to cry , and what do you do is try to hold the tears .

21:48

It's way more interesting to watch that's

21:50

interesting , and so trying to

21:52

kind of shift that over to screenwriting

21:54

. I think that makes for more dynamic characters too

21:56

, because you have

21:58

a sad character like oh , I'm going to cry now , but

22:00

then they're like no , no , let's hold back this moment

22:03

. Yes , how does the

22:05

character explode

22:07

or not explode , or how do they simmer

22:09

? I think that's really cool .

22:11

It's so much more interesting

22:13

to watch and it's like we

22:15

literally do this in life every

22:17

day . Let's say , someone is loving

22:20

their job and they get fired In

22:23

the moment , in real life , they're not going to start crying and start

22:25

begging that's going to . Some people do . But yeah

22:27

, but you're right , it is more interesting . But it's way more interesting

22:29

to see that person be in this moment

22:32

of like , heartbreak and like I

22:34

, I need to . I can't

22:36

show this right now .

22:37

I'm going to save it for when I go home and I'm going gonna

22:39

cry my eyes out or even like

22:41

, how does it me holding it

22:43

in the general

22:46

, me holding it in , affect my part

22:48

? Yeah , or yeah , I

22:50

think that's really cool . Yeah , yeah , really

22:52

cool thing to . I'm gonna use that yeah I didn't

22:54

, I didn't , I didn't ever think about that .

22:55

That's really cool it's uh , to me it's my

22:58

favorite thing , because the last thing you want to see

23:00

is a person . I mean , you want to see them

23:02

, but only the very end

23:04

, like you want that moment

23:06

, but it can't start there .

23:09

Well , I hope that people are

23:11

going to explore more about writing what they

23:13

know . We kind of dove

23:16

into a couple of concepts

23:18

and things that maybe you should avoid , or don't

23:20

. I mean , do whatever you want , it's

23:22

, it's art , it's . You know

23:24

, you're gonna piss people off . You're gonna make people happy

23:26

, you're gonna make people disinterested . Um

23:29

, right , what you know ? Right , happy

23:32

stuff , sad stuff . Xena

23:34

, thank you . Thank you for having me . Yeah

23:36

, we'll , uh , we'll see you next week . Yeah , all right , take

23:38

care everyone . Thank you bye . Thank

23:40

you for listening to the anywood podcast . You can find

23:42

us on anywhere you find your podcasts and on instagram

23:45

at anywood pod . See you next time from

23:47

the cfa network .

23:49

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