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Hello, friend. Thank you so much for downloading

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truly. I mean this from the bottom of

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my friend David Robertson, my favorite Scottish apologist

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who is currently serving the Lord in Australia.

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He comes and visits with us once a

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month, and he wrote a book

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called Ask, and now he's written a

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follow-up book called SEEK, Real Word Answers

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to Real World Questions. And so he

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literally goes through a whole series of

0:40

questions like, is there ever a good

0:42

lie, or does the Bible have mistakes,

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or what does the Bible say about

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climate change, or what's the difference between

0:48

capitalism and communism? And the list goes

0:50

on and on and on. So it

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is a fabulous reference book that I

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know you're going to want to put

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in your legacy library. So if you'd

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one of those important little volumes in your Ready

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877-Janet58 or online in the

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market with janetpartial.org. Now

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please enjoy the broadcast. Hi

2:13

friends, this is Janet Partial and I want to welcome

2:15

you to the best of in the market. Today's

2:17

program is pre-recorded so our phone lines are not

2:19

open but I do hope you'll enjoy today's edition

2:22

of the best of in the market with Janet

2:24

Partial. Here are some of the

2:26

news headlines we're watching. This time the conference was

2:28

over. The president won a pleasure in the conference.

2:30

So are Americans worshiping government over God? It's a

2:32

extremely rare facing move by a nation. 17

2:35

years of Palestinians and Israelis negotiate. I'm

2:37

Bill Hi

2:53

friends, welcome to in the market with Janet Partial. Oh, I

2:55

just know ahead of time this is going to be a

2:57

great hour of encouragement for a whole

3:00

lot of people who really struggle with

3:02

this idea. Maybe it's

3:04

because we haven't fully grasped the idea of amazing

3:06

grace. Boy, we sing about it. We love it

3:08

when the bagpipes play it, but maybe

3:10

at its core we really don't understand. You

3:12

know, it is what Christ did for us,

3:15

not what we have to do for him.

3:17

And it's this old ancient idea of work.

3:20

If it isn't works that get you to the cross,

3:22

then it's works that have to keep you at the

3:24

cross. And that doesn't get found

3:26

anywhere within the parameters of Scripture. And

3:28

sometimes that works part translates into thinking you've

3:31

got to be perfect. Oh,

3:33

what a joke every single day.

3:35

I mean, if Paul, if great brother Paul

3:37

can say, look, I'm struggling all the

3:39

time on my own flesh, the stuff I don't want to do,

3:41

I do the things I shouldn't be doing, I don't do. And

3:44

he talks about who will relieve me of this man

3:47

of death. By the way, do you know what the

3:49

background of that is? Ooh, I love studying Bible history,

3:51

but this is really gross. And

3:53

Paul talks about that. If you murdered somebody

3:55

in the ancient days of Rome, do you

3:57

know what your punishment was? had

4:00

to have strapped to your back the

4:02

corpse of the person that you murdered with

4:05

the idea that eventually as the corpse decayed the

4:07

infection from the dead man would work its way

4:09

into you. What the Romans created with ways to

4:11

do death, interesting culture. But by the way they're

4:14

just rubble and stone right now so don't worry

4:16

about their rising from the ashes because they're not

4:18

going to. But this man of

4:20

death that Paul talks about literally is this

4:22

translation of the infection, the sickness of the

4:24

dead man being infused into the live man

4:26

until the live man gets that very same

4:28

infection and then dies. So if

4:30

Paul struggles with that kind of a graphic

4:32

word picture what about the rest of us

4:35

who struggle with this idea of having to

4:37

be perfect? Well we're going to talk

4:39

this hour with someone who's written a wonderful

4:41

book called Permission to be Imperfect.

4:45

Raise your hand if that's, yeah I thought

4:47

so, all across the country. The subtitle says

4:49

how to strive less, stress less, sin less.

4:52

I like that and I'm so glad I get to talk

4:54

to Kyle Winkler again. Kyle is back

4:56

with me again. He's a practical Bible teacher who equips

4:58

people to live in victory and the reason we

5:00

talk the first time is because he wrote a

5:03

book that goes after the name of a mobile app

5:05

that he's got called Shut Up Devil. That

5:07

will catch your attention it did mine. To

5:10

this day still ranks as a top

5:13

Christian app. He's an author, he's a

5:15

sought after speaker, he's a frequent guest

5:17

on Christian TV from TBN to CBN

5:20

and he is known for using his own

5:22

story to boast in the power of God's

5:24

word for victory over fear, insecurity and issues

5:26

of the past. Guess what he got a

5:28

Masters of Divinity in Biblical Studies from Regent

5:30

University and we've got a website where you

5:32

can learn more about Kyle. But today he

5:34

joins us so we can discuss his newest

5:36

book, Permission to be Imperfect,

5:39

how to strive less, stress

5:41

less, sin less. And

5:43

I think that's what a whole lot of us want.

5:45

But Kyle you didn't just go, whatever shall I write

5:47

about today? This is part of your spiritual journey as well.

5:49

Talk to me about that. Yes, thank you

5:51

Janet. Once again honored to be here by the way.

5:54

But yeah it is, it is my story and

5:56

I write a little about it quite

5:58

a bit in the book. take you through my

6:01

journey really because there's so many other people's journeys

6:03

in one way or another but as

6:06

long as I can remember like

6:08

I take it all the way back to potty training I

6:11

just felt like there was something just so wrong

6:13

with me couldn't quite put my finger on it

6:15

but then as I got into elementary

6:18

school and I was so

6:20

incredibly shy I'm still a natural introvert but

6:22

back then I was just so almost debilitatingly

6:24

shy they thought that I had a reading

6:27

problem because of it they calling

6:29

me to read aloud and I would just freeze up anyway

6:32

what all of that did is caused me to

6:34

be the outcast and the loner and the one

6:36

picked last for just about everything sitting alone at

6:38

the lunch table so as as I

6:40

get older that morphs from I feel

6:43

wrong to I am wrong you know

6:45

an identity of shame so at

6:48

16 years old I

6:50

learn about the power of God in a way

6:52

I never knew possible and I learn about scripture

6:54

in a way I'd never known either and

6:57

I think I thought that

6:59

okay nothing else worked to fix all of

7:01

this in me before to fix this wrong

7:03

feeling maybe the faith will do it

7:06

and it did just a different

7:08

way than I thought at the

7:11

time see I took to the faith is like

7:13

a self-improvement program and the

7:15

Bible has nothing more than a book of instructions to

7:17

help fix me up and grow me up and change

7:19

me up so that I might

7:21

be able to be loved and

7:24

accepted by God and

7:26

that took me down a ten-year

7:28

path of rules

7:30

and discipline and perfectionism trying

7:32

to earn my way into

7:35

God's good graces and

7:37

I did just about every

7:40

spiritual discipline all kinds

7:42

of service in the church every night

7:44

of the week you name it I

7:46

tried it and it only ended

7:49

up making me worse not better

7:51

and so I get to the point of asking

7:53

God what more do I have to do to

7:56

live in this victory and he said to

7:58

me my doing

8:00

is the problem. My

8:03

earning, my proving, I was trying to

8:05

prove things that Jesus already proved and

8:07

do things that Jesus already did, that

8:10

getting better wasn't actually the

8:13

ultimate goal of the faith, but it was being

8:15

loved. I would actually get better naturally

8:17

as I learned how to receive the

8:20

love of God. So

8:22

that's what I take people through in

8:25

this book, Permission to be Imperfect, is really

8:28

how to live in God's grace and

8:31

allow Him to love you. I love

8:33

the way you articulated that and it raises just

8:35

a series of questions because you know Cal that

8:37

you're not the only person who struggles in this

8:40

area. This gets up, it's a Xerox copy machine

8:42

for so many believers. So where

8:44

does that come from? Why do we think, I mean

8:46

we allege when we accept Christ as our personal Savior,

8:48

when we really dig into the Word and it says

8:50

that if we confess with our mouth this Jesus is

8:53

Lord and believe in our heart that God has raised

8:55

Him from the dead, we will be saved. There it

8:57

is, there's the proclamation. If we confess our sins, He's

8:59

faithful and just to forgive us our sins and cleanse

9:01

us from all unrighteousness. So all of doing is

9:03

Him. The being is us.

9:06

We get to be in His presence and

9:08

receive His love. So where and how do

9:10

so many of us gum this up where

9:12

we think we've got to do somehow, which

9:15

opens a trapdoor to ugly legalism among a

9:17

myriad of other things? Fantastic question

9:19

and I think that a lot of it comes

9:21

down to our culture. Of

9:23

course we're raising a due to get

9:25

society and I hear the music so we can

9:27

talk more about that after the break. Yeah but

9:30

that's what it comes down to. Due to get

9:32

we live and achieve to succeed, perform to prove

9:34

and we're aimed through culture with that and then

9:36

it gets into the religious world. Oh boy

9:39

does it ever. Oh oh oh I'm glad we have a

9:41

whole hour because I've got a lot to ask you Kyle.

9:43

But let's pick it up at exactly this point. So where

9:45

does it come from? You can't find the cure if you

9:47

don't first identify the disease. So maybe

9:49

it's an hour of encouragement. You're listening

9:52

all across the country from Guam to

9:54

the Cayman Islands. How many of you

9:56

struggle with this idea of having the

9:58

perfect somehow in your relationship with the permission

10:00

to be imperfect. I'll read you

10:02

a brand new book back after this. The

10:11

Bible says those who seek will find. That

10:13

means if you're looking for Biblical answers to

10:15

questions the world is asking, you will find

10:17

them. And it's why I've chosen Seek as

10:19

this month's truth tool. Get Biblical

10:21

answers to multiple questions on God, society, theology, and

10:24

more. Ask for your copy of Seek when you

10:26

give a gift of any amount to In the

10:28

Market. Call 877-Janet58. That's

10:31

877-Janet58. Or,

10:33

go to In the Market with janetpartial.org.

10:38

Bible teacher Kyle Winkler is with us. He's

10:40

also the creator of Shut Up, Devil, which

10:42

to this day ranks as one of the

10:45

top Christian apps. He joins us

10:47

today because he's got a brand new book that really emanates out of

10:49

his own personal story. But he's astute

10:51

enough to understand this was not just a

10:53

struggle in his own life, that this is

10:55

a struggle that so many of us have

10:58

as believers, that somehow we think we just

11:00

have to be perfect and we are exhausted

11:02

in the process of doing it and really

11:04

fail to understand God's amazing grace.

11:06

The book is called Permission to be

11:09

Imperfect, how to Strive Less, Stress

11:11

Less, and Sin Less. And

11:13

so we just started to get into it before the

11:15

break, Kyle, which is the idea of from where does

11:17

this idea emanate? Because we profess

11:20

to understand the principles of salvation

11:22

through faith and grace alone. So

11:25

where do we superglue all this stuff,

11:27

this performance, which is in many respects

11:29

works onto what is a grace-based faith?

11:31

So where do you think that comes from? Yeah,

11:33

I think as I said before, we get programmed by

11:35

it from culture, and that really goes all the way

11:37

back to the beginning. I mean, back to the story

11:39

of Adam and Eve, back through the tree of the

11:41

knowledge of good and evil. Ever

11:44

since that first fall, humans have been

11:46

trying. It's what religion is. They've

11:48

been trying to achieve and earn and

11:51

prove something to or for God. And

11:53

so that has gotten into our culture. It's gotten into our

11:56

politics. It's gotten into our work environment. You know, we hear

11:58

the word. quid

12:00

pro quo, which is due to get

12:02

it's it's all just different versions of

12:05

How we're taught that to achieve your dreams It takes a

12:07

whole lot of work and a whole lot of muscle

12:10

and a whole lot of effort and in the

12:12

natural in In many ways it does of course

12:15

But that's the natural we're talking about

12:17

the spiritual and unfortunately what happens is

12:21

All of our culture ends up getting

12:23

into the church culture to where we

12:25

think well If it if it takes

12:27

so much to earn something from maybe

12:29

a parent or a boss or a teacher Then

12:32

how much more must it take to earn

12:35

something from? God almighty so

12:37

we treat him in the same way as

12:39

As we've treated others or we believe that he's

12:42

the same as others have treated us and so

12:44

suddenly we we strive

12:46

and strive to as I said earlier

12:48

to Achieve something

12:50

that jesus already achieved or approved

12:52

something that jesus already proved

12:55

and all that leads to is

12:58

Burn out an exhaustion because

13:01

you cannot possibly do enough and that's

13:03

the reason why Jesus

13:05

came I think of something the apostle paul said

13:07

in romans 12 too A

13:11

lot of us know it it's the renewal of

13:13

the mind verse and right before there He says

13:15

don't be conformed to the pattern of this world

13:17

But be transformed by the renewal of the

13:19

mind A lot of people will

13:22

think the pattern of this world is talking

13:24

about sin and stop sinning and and don't

13:26

follow You know all of all of the

13:28

world's ways Really what he was

13:30

talking about there was the pattern of do to

13:32

get performed to please achieve to succeed It

13:35

was the pattern of rule keeping commandment keeping

13:37

law keeping That they were

13:39

into back then that they believed enough sacrifices

13:41

enough suffering that was going to please god

13:43

He's saying break from all of that. That's

13:46

not how you please god Be

13:48

transformed in your mind to know that you

13:50

please god through your faith in jesus alone.

13:52

And as you Remember that

13:54

you renew your mind that jesus has

13:57

already done the work That's

13:59

going to start to translate Transform you from the inside

14:01

out. It's going to bring you the peace and And

14:04

the love that God has placed in your heart. That's

14:06

going to start to come from the inside out So

14:10

so that's what real Christianity is. It's

14:12

it's not all this do not all

14:14

this commandment keeping It's

14:16

it's allowing yourself To

14:18

be loved by God and let him live his

14:20

life through you You

14:22

know, I you hear the pages of my Bible

14:25

slipping here because when you were talking I was

14:27

thinking let me tell you how widespread this problem

14:29

is quite frankly how old it is so I

14:31

was in the book of Revelation over the weekend

14:33

it was interesting because when John

14:36

is writing and they all of Patmos to the

14:38

seven churches and he writes to the church at

14:40

Ephesus He lists all these things that they're doing

14:42

that they are terrific and it was like wow

14:44

your toil your patience your endurance You

14:46

can't bear those who are evil and I'm thinking

14:48

man, that's great This is gonna be a fabulous church

14:51

and then he goes but this I have against

14:53

you and guess what it is That you've

14:55

abandoned the love you had at first So

14:57

isn't this a perfect picture of the doing

14:59

and the being so they were doing doing

15:01

doing all of these things and what John

15:03

is The Lord speaking through John in

15:05

the book of Revelation is but that's

15:08

wonderful But you don't love

15:10

me you're doing these things you're checking

15:12

all of these boxes But you're cold

15:14

in terms of your personal affection and

15:16

relationship with me I'm wondering when we

15:18

get bound up in this doing and

15:20

again this portends this Being

15:23

trapped in the spiders web of legalism as

15:25

well. No wonder people get frustrated They

15:27

could also walk away from the faith because you're not

15:29

sensing and knowing God's love in that kind of an

15:31

environment. Are you? Great

15:33

point. No, you're not you are Completely

15:36

striving to get something because you think

15:38

that often that God doesn't love you

15:40

and that's that's what I realized in Writing

15:43

this book, of course, it comes out of my

15:45

own journey But it also comes out of a

15:47

decade of receiving prayer requests in ministry where

15:50

I found that most

15:52

of the toxic behaviors moods and

15:55

attitudes addictions all of that stuff

15:57

that We don't want

15:59

to do ends up

16:01

coming out of a root of

16:03

people either not

16:06

believing that they're loved or not believing that

16:08

they can be loved and so therefore they

16:10

are trying to receive it either from a

16:13

person or from God himself and they're trying

16:15

to do things and that leads them to

16:17

all kinds of toxic stuff so it all

16:19

comes down to this root of

16:21

knowing God's love and

16:23

you know that you rest in that

16:26

and as Hebrew said there's a work there to

16:28

be able to do that it

16:30

takes a real renewing of the mind to

16:32

be able to do that because as we

16:35

said the world programs us that we get

16:37

things oppositely

16:40

so there is an effort there

16:42

to remember that it all comes down to love but

16:44

when you can get that I'm telling you the

16:47

bad moods the bad attitudes the bad habits

16:49

the the addictions they all begin to fade

16:52

because you found your fulfillment absolutely

16:55

the rocks come out of your backpack you're

16:57

not bent over anymore just that way you

16:59

talk about the world sometimes the world starts when you're a

17:01

child and you've got a parent that basically you

17:03

think you can earn dad's approval by

17:06

performance if you do that then you'll get an

17:08

affirmation so if you have to do that and

17:10

I know very often there's that transfer and so

17:12

whatever the dynamic is with your earthly father somehow

17:14

becomes a transfer in store heavenly father but the

17:16

wonderful thing about our heavenly father is a he's

17:19

perfect I love my dad but he was not

17:21

perfect no dad out there is perfect but if

17:23

you think you can only earn the affections of

17:25

your earthly father by performance end up

17:27

transferring that and there's the difference

17:29

it's a great difference and boy I'm glad we've

17:32

got more time because how I want to talk

17:34

about that what do we need

17:36

to know about God character for

17:38

us to be able to take these rocks out

17:40

of our backpack let me leave that question post

17:42

right there and we'll take it up and we

17:45

return the book fabulous for anyone and my guess

17:47

is most people single with this this

17:49

is really about your being given permission

17:51

to be imperfect and when you really

17:53

under stand and brace and live in

17:56

the grace that's available to us just

17:58

like I said you'll learn to strive

18:01

less, stress less, and sin less.

18:12

Permission to be imperfect, Kyle Winkler's brand

18:14

new book, and he is a wonderful

18:16

writer, by the way, part of his

18:18

journey, but this is something that

18:21

he's learned in his years listening to people

18:23

from ministry about how many people struggle with

18:25

this idea of doing rather

18:27

than being. The fancy

18:30

50 cent word, if you want, is ontological

18:32

being. In other words, just God loves you,

18:34

period. So often we want to put a

18:36

comma there, and in that comma

18:38

you open up a panoply of issues, exhaustion,

18:40

stress. You're actually sinning more

18:42

because you don't fully understand the concept of grace,

18:45

and that's why this book, I think, is so important

18:47

for oh so many people. Kyle, again, is a Bible

18:50

teacher, but he's also the creator of ShutUp Devil, which

18:52

is a mobile app, and it's very popular, one of

18:54

the most popular Christian apps out there. I

18:57

love the chapter called Get a New God,

18:59

and you're not advancing the idea of signing

19:01

up for the Club of Odin or Zeus

19:03

or anything like that. What you're saying is

19:06

your understanding of God is flawed, and

19:08

when that happens, you really fail to

19:11

grasp the whole concept of grace. And

19:14

I find this to be amazing. Let me just

19:16

offer a couple of caveats. First of all, I've

19:18

often said to the Lord, because I really

19:21

wonderfully, quickly embrace his everlasting

19:23

love. Ask me if I

19:25

understand it. How does my Mickey

19:27

Mouse mortal mind possibly comprehend unconditional

19:30

love when anything I've ever known and

19:32

anything I've ever done is conditional loving?

19:35

It's the same thing with grace. We sing it. We

19:37

watch movies about it. We read books about it. But

19:40

do we really understand the concept of grace? And

19:43

let me zero in on this right now so

19:45

we can slay the bramble bushes that are starting

19:47

to grow up around some people's thinking. The problem

19:49

is that if you fully

19:51

embrace God's grace, somehow

19:53

people think that that is the equivalent,

19:56

and linear thinking can be dangerous, but

19:58

they think it's the equivalent of somehow...

20:00

creating a law of license. And

20:03

that's the

20:05

law of liberty. Like you have a limitless master

20:08

card of sin because now you're saved so you

20:10

can do anything so you people keep promoting the

20:12

idea of grace. Well that's cheap grace. That's sloppy

20:14

grace. That's not what we're talking about. So can

20:16

you pull over to the side of the road

20:19

for a minute and just talk to me about

20:21

grace and why this conversation does not open up

20:23

the pothole of saying that somehow you're now going

20:25

to be filled with the law of liberty

20:28

and you can sin because after all I've got grace. Talk

20:30

to me about that. Oh Janet thank

20:32

you for bringing that up because I bet I

20:34

get that every single day. I think I opened

20:36

up YouTube this morning to hear people say this

20:38

is just a license to sin. Right. And that's

20:40

not at all what we're talking about. First of

20:43

all I say nobody needs a license to sin.

20:45

They're sinning just fine without a license. So there's

20:47

no license needed

20:49

there. But a

20:52

lot of people when they think about

20:54

grace they think about it strictly as

20:56

forgiveness. And of course that is a

20:58

big part of it because we're getting

21:00

something we didn't deserve. That

21:02

is a big part of grace. But as

21:04

I say in the book I go through

21:06

great lengths to say that actually

21:09

you do better spiritually and biologically when

21:11

you're not under pressure. And I go through

21:13

all the science and the neuroscience and everything

21:15

in the first couple chapters of the book

21:18

to show why our bodies shut down

21:20

under pressure. So the more

21:22

you think is on the line whether that's

21:24

from another person or whether that's from God

21:26

the worse you're going to do. So forgiveness

21:28

knowing that you're forgiven does

21:31

not make you do worse.

21:33

It actually makes you do better.

21:35

Apostle Peter even said something. He said you're

21:38

not growing in godliness because you've forgotten

21:40

your cleansing. Again it

21:42

goes down to remember that you're

21:44

forgiven. Remember that you are already

21:48

clean. But the other part of

21:50

grace and I think this is more than half

21:52

of it is

21:54

that it's your wholeness. It's

21:57

a new nature. It's it's

21:59

as Colossians. Ephesians 2.10 says that you

22:01

have been made complete by your union

22:04

with Christ. It's that you

22:06

are no longer a sinner, but you are made

22:08

a saint. The Bible says that you were given

22:10

a new heart. It says you were given a

22:12

new mind. It says you were made obedient from

22:14

the heart, even you have new wants and new

22:16

desires. So a Christian,

22:20

I've not found a Christian yet, at

22:22

least, that wants to sin in

22:24

all of the prayer requests

22:26

I have gotten and people

22:28

that have called into radio shows and I've

22:30

talked to after speaking engagements, they're all asking

22:33

me, how can I stop this? I don't

22:35

want to do this anymore. I say, well,

22:37

that's evidence of your new nature, first of

22:39

all, because you have a new heart. You

22:41

don't desire to sin. Now, are we going

22:43

to sin? Yes, because we have

22:45

minds that need constant renewing. We live in

22:47

flesh. We're not going to be perfect. That's

22:49

why Jesus came. But

22:51

we don't want to do it anymore. And

22:54

that's as much a part of grace, our new nature,

22:57

as it is our forgiveness. And

22:59

so when you lean into that new nature and

23:02

you know that new nature, you're going

23:05

to start to do better more

23:08

automatically than you ever

23:10

will by trying to do it.

23:13

And therein, I think, is the power of

23:15

grace there, is that your

23:18

new nature starts to take over. Yeah.

23:21

So let me talk about the new nature, because this

23:23

is the flip for me. And I'm

23:25

wondering if it was for you, too, is that if

23:28

our propensity is to check the boxes and

23:30

do the rules and think that as long

23:32

as we turn it in early with

23:34

15 extra credit points, therefore God will love us

23:36

more. Right. And

23:38

I think that's for so many of us. But the

23:40

reality is when you begin to try to grasp hope

23:43

of His amazing grace, now

23:46

I want to be conformed and transformed out

23:48

of obedience. I want to be conformed and

23:50

transformed out of love. You

23:52

know, when you read a verse like the beauty

23:55

of a quiet and gentle spirit is

23:57

very precious in the sight of God.

24:00

came across that verse the other day. I bet I quote it

24:02

20 times a day now. I'm

24:04

in a position where I can give

24:06

something to God that's very precious in

24:08

his sight. Kyle, that took my breath

24:10

away. And I didn't do it because

24:12

it was a to-do list. I did it because I

24:15

loved him. And if the beauty of a quiet and

24:17

gentle spirit is something that he loves and he deems

24:19

it to be precious, oh, bring it

24:21

on. I wanna deliver something to my father

24:23

that is beautiful and precious in his

24:25

eyes. That's great. Not because I have to,

24:27

but because I want to. We've

24:30

got a half an hour more to go, and I'm glad, because

24:32

I feel like I've just barely scratched the surface. Why? Because

24:35

I think this topic for a lot of

24:37

people is like Marley's chain, right? In A

24:39

Christmas Carol, we make this chain of works

24:41

and stress, yard by yard and inch by

24:44

inch. The key to get that

24:46

chain off of our ankles and out of our

24:48

backpack? Brace. Exactly

24:50

the point that Kyle is making in his new book,

24:52

permission to be imperfect. How

24:54

to strive less, stress less,

24:56

sin less. Back after this.

25:11

So many stations, channels, websites, and

25:14

newspapers to choose from. Sometimes it's hard to uncover

25:16

the truth in today's world. So many

25:18

voices clamoring for our attention. On In

25:20

the Market, we bring biblical truth into

25:23

the marketplace of ideas, equipping you to

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become a bold voice of truth in

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this confused and chaotic culture. To become

25:29

a partial partner today, call 877-Janet58, or

25:32

go online to In the Market with

25:34

janetpartial.org. We

25:38

are having a great conversation. If you're just joining us,

25:41

the warmest of welcomes, and thank you, Lord, for

25:43

technology, because if you missed the first half of

25:45

this conversation, you didn't, because you can

25:47

go to In the Market with janetpartial.org. Left-hand

25:50

side, you're gonna see a bunch of words. Look for

25:52

these two past programs. Click it on. You

25:55

can download this hour in its entirety or either

25:57

of the two hours we do every day, going

25:59

back a fully. year that's our library of

26:01

sound so check it out that way you won't

26:03

have missed anything but if you are just joining

26:05

us let me reintroduce our guest for you. Kyle

26:07

Winkler is with us it's good to have him back

26:09

on the program he's a practical Bible teacher he quips

26:12

people to live in victory he's the

26:14

founder of the app shut up devil also wrote

26:16

a book by the way by that title it

26:18

still ranks to this day as a top Christian

26:20

app he is a sought-after speaker

26:22

he's a free conquest on Christian media as

26:24

evidence by his being here and an author

26:26

as well and his book

26:28

that we're discussing is brand new it's

26:31

called permission to be imperfect how to

26:33

strive less stress less and sinless and

26:35

by the way this is a profoundly

26:37

deep theological issue but it's

26:39

not so profound that it's not graspable God

26:41

is not far off by any stretch of

26:44

the imagination and so our answers

26:46

are found in his word and his

26:48

character is likewise revealed in his word

26:50

which takes me full circle Kyle to

26:53

where I was before what what do

26:55

we not know about God that messes

26:57

up our thinking about the grace that's

26:59

been given to us oh

27:02

so many people they they

27:04

think probably I don't know 75% of our thinking

27:07

about God is based on 75% of

27:09

the Bible which is really the Old Testament and

27:12

let's be honest that a

27:14

lot of what we read in the Old Testament

27:17

doesn't make God look all that favorable in

27:19

in that chapter that we talked about get a new God

27:21

which is really about getting a new perspective of God I

27:24

I talk about this

27:26

story of this this article I

27:29

read online by an atheist somebody who

27:31

left the church I believe and he

27:33

wrote this title something like I proposed we

27:35

give up God and I thought

27:37

oh this will be interesting let's see what he

27:39

has to say and he used all of these

27:41

Old Testament examples to show why God

27:44

is a bully and he's mean and he's horrible

27:46

and all these various colorful

27:48

words and I said he doesn't

27:50

need to give up God he needs to get a new God

27:52

which is to get a new perspective of him because the

27:55

New Testament shows us who God really is

27:57

see a lot of Christians as I said

28:00

they base who God

28:02

is based on Old Testament verses and so

28:04

they come away with this idea like this

28:07

guy who wrote the article did that

28:09

maybe at best if God

28:11

isn't completely mean like he thought at

28:14

least Christians might think maybe he's at

28:16

best half love half I

28:18

gotta be afraid of him because he's gonna get

28:20

me in in some way but

28:22

the New Testament says that what we

28:25

see in the Old Testament was just a shadow

28:27

it was just seeing God through a

28:30

veil the way he's described the stories we

28:32

hear there of course some of it is

28:34

God dealing with sin in swift ways because

28:37

Jesus wasn't here yet to deal with sin

28:40

but some of it is also God

28:42

being described by people that didn't have

28:44

the full picture I think of Job

28:46

for example we know from Scripture

28:49

that the enemy was the one taking

28:51

everything away from Job but what

28:53

did Job declare that God gives

28:56

and God takes away see he saw

28:58

God as responsible for it all so

29:00

we see things like that in the

29:02

Old Testament because again they didn't have

29:04

the full picture but now

29:06

we do the Apostle Paul

29:08

said that Jesus is the

29:11

invisible image of the

29:13

Father in in the flesh Jesus said if

29:15

you have seen me you've seen the Father

29:17

and then John said here's

29:20

what he looks like Jesus

29:22

was God at creation

29:24

one in the same and John chapter

29:27

1 then by verse 14 he says

29:30

when he came to earth and made

29:32

his home among us he was full

29:34

of unfailing love and faithfulness

29:36

see that is the image

29:38

now that is the full picture

29:40

of who God is thanks to what

29:43

Jesus did on the cross he is

29:45

100% unfailing love the Greek word there

29:47

is it means pure grace so we

29:49

don't have to be afraid anymore of

29:52

him zapping us dead for our every sin we

29:54

don't have to be afraid or looking over our

29:57

back or like I used to grow up hearing

29:59

from my school teachers and even some of my family

30:01

watch out or God's gonna get you back no no

30:03

no God dealt with the sin

30:05

issue on the cross with Jesus now we

30:07

get to live in his

30:10

love and be empowered by his grace

30:13

well so that's what you mean when

30:15

you write in the book about the

30:18

fact that we're not meant to live

30:20

for God's pleasure but in and from

30:22

his question that's a radical erratically rewiring

30:24

of the brain in terms of our

30:26

thinking about this so explain what do

30:28

you mean in and from God's pleasure

30:32

yes so just as Paul said that rewiring of the

30:34

brain that's the renewal of the mind that's why there's

30:37

there's it sometimes takes

30:39

a real reprogramming because we've lived

30:41

lifetimes of believing that we have

30:43

to earn things from God as

30:45

we were talking about in the first part

30:47

of the program but because

30:49

of Jesus we now get

30:52

to live in the knowing

30:54

that we are in God's delight in the book

30:56

I take people through the creation story to illustrate

30:58

this and there are several

31:00

clues about where God wanted

31:02

us I always say you can know

31:04

God's perfect will by looking at how the

31:07

world was before sin before humans messed it

31:09

up and you see that first

31:11

clue is humans were made

31:14

on day six which is after all the work was

31:16

done so God didn't need our help to do anything

31:19

then next day day seven he established as

31:21

a day of rest but unlike all the

31:23

other days which were ended buttoned

31:25

up with the ending evening

31:29

or morning came and evening followed then

31:33

the next clue is that

31:37

he put us in Eden so we

31:39

were made after all the work was done we were

31:44

then living in the rest of God which is

31:46

meant to be an eternal Sabbath and

31:48

then Eden we were placed in the

31:50

Garden of Eden which in Hebrew means delight

31:53

we were meant to live in God's delight

31:55

that's where humans were created to live that's

31:57

a place where there was no earning

31:59

and Everything was just given to

32:01

them out of relationship with God, out of His

32:04

blessing, out of His grace. Of

32:06

course, because of sin, we

32:08

got separated from that. But the beauty

32:11

of salvation is Jesus did everything necessary

32:13

to end the separation with sin, to

32:16

reconcile us back to the Father so that now

32:18

we get to live back in the delight of

32:20

God. So there's no

32:22

more working for God. He's not

32:24

this schizophrenic taskmaster that we have

32:26

to make sure that we are

32:29

collecting enough good works to keep

32:31

Him happy. But no, because of

32:33

Jesus, because of our faith in Him,

32:35

the Bible says we are already pleasing

32:37

to Him. So now we get

32:39

to live from knowing that we have His pleasure,

32:42

not earning it. Wow.

32:45

So, and you addressed this in the book, but let me

32:47

ask it here. So what does it

32:49

mean to be a good Christian then? I

32:54

think that it means that you know that the

32:56

work was done. A lot of people

32:58

think to be a good Christian means that you're doing

33:00

all kinds of disciplines and you're reading your Bible enough.

33:03

And the big one these days is you're spending enough

33:05

time with God, which is creating a whole lot of

33:07

guilt and shame in people, and it's not helping

33:09

them any. To

33:11

be a good Christian is to know that God has made

33:13

you good. If you look at Romans chapter

33:16

three, go through verses 22 through about

33:18

verses 30. And Paul says

33:20

a handful of times that because of your

33:22

belief, and that's it, not because of your

33:25

doing, not because of your anything,

33:27

but because of your belief in Jesus,

33:29

God has made you right. He's made

33:31

you good. So I say you

33:33

can now say because of Jesus, God is good

33:36

and I am good with God. That's a good

33:38

Christian. Oh,

33:40

I like that. So as you look

33:42

at this idea, in fact, I was thinking

33:44

when I read the book that there's a

33:46

natural extension from your book, Shut Up, Devil,

33:48

because the accuser is constantly whispering

33:52

an area. If it's performance-based relationship

33:54

with God, he's going to

33:56

remind you on a regular basis that's not enough. You better

33:59

do some more. do some more. So

34:01

when he comes and starts whispering those

34:03

lies in our ear because the Bible

34:05

tells me that there is no condemnation

34:07

towards me now that I'm in Jesus

34:09

Christ. So that voice is not coming

34:11

from him. When the devil is there,

34:13

I want to do what you taught me to do in your

34:15

first book which is basically tell him to shut up like you

34:17

said and I don't need an app to do it. I'm just

34:20

going to say it. But what are

34:22

some verses that I can say that can

34:24

quiet the accuser because I think it

34:27

absolutely is paramount. First of all,

34:29

I know it pleases my father when I know his

34:31

love letters enough to put them in context and to

34:33

speak them against the enemy. But what are some verses

34:35

I should turn to then to make the devil's accusing

34:38

voice be silenced in my head? Good

34:40

point because the devil as the accuser, as

34:42

the slander, that's what his name means, slander.

34:45

He's out to question your reputation which is in

34:47

Christ. He's out to make you think that you

34:49

are not good enough. You've got to do more

34:51

and it gets you back into that cycle of

34:54

works and shame and works and shame and around

34:56

and around it goes. So you've got to remember

34:58

truths about what God says

35:00

about your righteousness. Most of all, I

35:02

think 2 Corinthians 5.21 is

35:04

one of my favorites and explains the

35:06

two transactions of the cross of grace.

35:08

He who knew no sin took on my

35:11

sin. That's forgiveness so that in him we would

35:13

be made the righteousness of God in Christ. That's

35:15

your new nature. So you remind that devil you

35:17

can say shut up devil. I am made new.

35:20

I am made right. I am made whole. I

35:23

am made holy. And that made whole is

35:25

another great one. Colossians 2 10 I mentioned

35:27

it earlier that because of my union with

35:29

Christ I am complete. I'm lacking

35:31

nothing. I'm good enough. Actually I'm made

35:33

more than good enough. There's nothing about

35:35

the real me that needs to be

35:38

fixed anymore because Christ has done it.

35:40

Romans 3 22 as I said earlier

35:43

because of Jesus I am made right

35:46

and I love 1 Corinthians 6 But

35:50

I am washed. I am justified.

35:52

I am sanctified by calling on

35:54

the name of the Lord Jesus Christ. That's

35:56

a trinity of cleansing that happened all

35:59

because You put your faith,

36:01

your dependency, your trust in Jesus.

36:03

He did the work. You

36:05

were God's handiwork. You're not your

36:07

own. So

36:11

comforting and it just takes so much

36:13

of the burden off our back. That's

36:15

why this book, I think Kyle is

36:17

so very important. Again, it's entitled Permission

36:19

to be Imperfect. How to Strive Less,

36:21

Stress Less and Sin Less. I

36:23

wanna go to the third part of the

36:25

subtitle when we come back, Kyle. How does

36:27

understanding God's grace and understanding

36:30

that we live in and from His

36:32

pleasure, how does that have a result

36:34

of sinning less? I think some people

36:37

might not be making that connection. If

36:40

you understand this is really the best

36:42

outcome of understanding this, who

36:44

among us, if we love Jesus, doesn't want

36:46

to sin less. Sometimes the rule making and

36:48

the rule setting just opens the door for

36:50

us to do more, not less sinning. So

36:52

what's the connection here? How Winkler will tell

36:54

us. It's all part of his brand

36:56

new book, Permission to be Imperfect. Check it out on

36:58

my website. It's right

37:01

there at inthemarketwithjanetpersonal.org. Permission

37:08

to be Imperfect, brand new book by

37:10

Kyle Winkler. Really and truly

37:13

it's helping us understand what

37:15

really being in God's grace is

37:17

all about. So I wanna pick up exactly where

37:19

I started as we went to break. The

37:22

corollary, this connection between sinning less

37:24

and really embracing God's

37:26

grace. People might not

37:28

be able to see why that is the

37:30

end result. That's the outcome of really and

37:32

truly understanding this. So in fact, again, it

37:35

goes to the antithesis of what we said

37:37

before. If you think

37:39

that somehow just living, it's

37:41

grace. Yes, I get that, but I

37:43

don't have the grace to sin without

37:46

ceasing. So the

37:48

antithesis of that is you really understand

37:51

grace and you really end up sinning

37:53

less. How does that work? Because

37:55

it's counterintuitive to what we think will happen. It

37:58

is, it takes such a paradigm. shift because

38:00

most of us, we

38:02

think that the way to sin less is

38:04

we've got to uphold

38:06

all of these don't taste,

38:09

don't touch, don't, you know, a bunch

38:11

of rules, whether that's the Ten Commandments

38:13

or the other 603 laws of Moses

38:15

or some self-help principle. Whatever

38:18

is a thou shalt not, it is

38:20

a kind of law. And the Apostle

38:22

Paul said in 1 Corinthians 1556 that

38:26

it's actually law that empowers sin. See, we thought

38:28

and I thought for many years that it was

38:30

the law that kept me from sinning when in

38:32

truth, as Paul even says in Romans 7, chapter

38:34

7, where,

38:37

you know, the famous verse where he says, I do what

38:39

I don't want to do, I do what

38:41

I hate, he was living

38:43

under that commandment thou shall not covet

38:45

and that commandment put a pressure on

38:48

him that actually only caused

38:50

him to sin all the more. See, law

38:52

was supposed to wear us out so

38:55

that we see our need for a

38:57

savior. So anytime we live by a

38:59

I can't, I must not, or I

39:01

have to, we're living under law and

39:03

it's going to prove what law was

39:05

intended to prove every time it's going to wear

39:07

you out, burn you out, is going to make you worse,

39:10

not better. A lot

39:12

of other people then they live with this

39:14

sense of guilt as well that they think

39:16

that the worst I feel about myself

39:19

that I'm this horrible sinner, I might as well

39:21

go eat worms, that that's going

39:23

to somehow make them better as well. And it

39:25

actually has the opposite effect. The book of Hebrews

39:27

says that Israel and all of

39:30

their sin consciousness, all it led them to do

39:32

was sacrifice that sacrifice led them to feel more

39:34

guilty, which led them to feel more sin conscious,

39:36

which led them to more sacrifice. It

39:38

didn't work. So the two things,

39:40

the law keeping the rule keeping the feeling

39:42

guilty, it doesn't work. So what does work?

39:46

Grace, grace is what works because it removes the pressure

39:48

of us. It tells us that we don't serve a

39:50

God who is out to get us, but we serve

39:52

a God who loves us, who when we fall, he's

39:54

going to pick us up and he's going to show

39:56

us the better way. And he's So

40:00

that's going to naturally make us

40:02

do better. And there's

40:04

a story

40:07

that, or

40:09

a lesson rather, that I learned my first time

40:11

snow skiing, which I think makes a good lesson

40:14

on this. And that was

40:16

at 16 years old, wanting

40:18

to go down these big slopes. And

40:21

the instructor says, okay, when you do,

40:23

make sure that you're not focused on

40:25

the trees and the light poles, but

40:28

focus on the way in front of you, focus on where

40:30

you want to go. And when

40:32

somebody said, why? He said, because you're going to hit what

40:34

you focus on. And

40:36

it's the same thing in Christianity. If you're focusing on

40:39

all the don'ts, you're focusing on what you shouldn't do.

40:42

The pressure of living under that is going to

40:44

wear your body down to where you end up

40:46

hitting those, but your mind's going to be so

40:48

focused on those that you end up hitting them

40:51

too. So instead, focus on

40:53

the way of grace that's in front

40:55

of you. Focus on God's unlimited love.

40:58

And it's going to empower you

41:00

in a way where you do better without

41:02

trying to do better. You start to live

41:04

then out of your new nature, which

41:07

is made right, made whole, made holy. And

41:11

you don't have to strive then for holiness. You

41:13

just become it more automatically. Boy,

41:17

if you don't take anything away from

41:19

this conversation, take away that instructor from

41:21

the seat teacher, because that is such

41:23

a great point. So let

41:25

me talk in full transparency that I

41:27

bet the majority of people who struggle in this

41:30

area are saying, that's what I want. They've

41:32

either said it out loud or they've said it with

41:34

their inside voice inside their own heart. And

41:36

what happens in journeys like this is you have periods

41:38

of time and I bet in your journey it was

41:40

the same as well, Kyle, where you move forward and

41:43

then all of a sudden you find yourself defaulting back

41:45

to old habits again. When

41:47

that happens, what do we do? This

41:51

is the renewal of the mind. This is what

41:53

Paul's talking about. Break from that pattern of the

41:55

world. Break from the pattern that you knew. And

41:58

remember, remember that God's Word. loves you. I think

42:01

of the Apostle Paul's advice. It's his prayer

42:03

for spiritual growth in Ephesians

42:05

3 verses 17 through 19.

42:08

He doesn't give us more to do. He doesn't say

42:10

discipline yourself more. He says grasp

42:13

as much as humanly possible. I remember Janet, you

42:16

said at the beginning of the show how

42:18

our finite minds cannot possibly grasp

42:20

it, but as much as humanly

42:22

possible, grasp how high and

42:24

how wide and how deep is God's love.

42:26

And then Paul says here's what's going to

42:29

happen when you know that you're

42:31

going to be strengthened

42:33

with all the power and the

42:35

fullness that comes from God. So

42:37

when you fall rather than beat

42:39

yourself up, pick yourself back up

42:42

with God loves me. The

42:44

enemy is going to tell you you're not worthy of

42:46

it. That's where you got to shut them up. Don't

42:49

listen to your feelings. God's Word is more real than what

42:51

you feel. Just keep saying it

42:53

until you believe it, until that mind is

42:55

renewed and you start living like it. God

42:58

loves me. God loves me. God loves me.

43:01

And again, experientially because what we think is

43:03

what we believe. It's how we behave. There's

43:06

that synergy between all of these things. So

43:08

if you were raised in a household where you didn't

43:11

hear very often that you were loved, where you were

43:13

raised in a household where everything with performance predicated. You

43:15

got an A- and you report card and some parent

43:17

says to you, well I expect an A or an

43:19

A+. And so you just can't

43:21

quite do enough. Sometimes

43:24

it causes this separation to

43:26

say these are mere mortals. All have

43:28

sinned and come short of the glory of God. There's not

43:30

one righteous, not one of us. So

43:32

just saying, Lord, I know that you love me.

43:34

And then I think of the man who said,

43:36

I believe, help me in my unbelief. Even if

43:38

you can't fully comprehend, do you

43:41

not think our Father takes pleasure in hearing us

43:43

say, I so want that, but I don't understand

43:45

that? Help me to better understand it. Is

43:47

that not a prayer he would answer? That's

43:51

absolutely. That's how good our God

43:53

is. Yes. Yes. Wow. I

43:56

tell you, I just love this book because I

43:58

think more people than perhaps they even realize

44:00

struggle in this particular area. And like

44:02

you say, it opens the door to legalism, it

44:04

opens the door to discouragement. It's why so many

44:06

people quote deconstruct, because they can't keep up with

44:08

the rule making. And by the way, Cal does

44:10

a great job of folding in the science about

44:12

how our brain works this way when you have

44:14

rules, and how you actually shut down and get discouraged,

44:16

and you move exactly the opposite direction of where

44:18

you want to go. It is a

44:20

wonderful book. Cal has this great way, and you saw that

44:22

evidence, by the way, in which he spoke with us this

44:24

hour. Crystal clear, precept

44:27

teaching, no ambiguity with

44:29

grace and mercy as he teaches us.

44:31

So get the book, it's called Permission to be

44:33

Imperfect, how to strive less, stress less,

44:35

and sin less. And if you

44:37

want information on the book, easy

44:39

peasy, in the market with janetpartial.org

44:42

after the description of the two hours of

44:44

radio underneath, it says program, details, and audio.

44:47

So white words in a red box, click

44:49

it on, takes you to the information page.

44:51

There's a picture of Kyle, a vowel, and right

44:53

to his right. There is the book

44:55

underneath, a website, if you want to learn more about

44:57

Kyle and his great ministry. Thank you, Kyle, thank you

44:59

friends. We'll see you next time on In the Market

45:02

with Janet Partial. Recractable

45:05

claws, up to a half inches

45:07

long, capable of

45:09

jumping 36 feet. A

45:12

roar that can be heard five miles away.

45:16

The lion, king of the beast, picture

45:19

yourself surrounded by several, like Daniel.

45:22

He determined to pray, though

45:24

he knew he would pay. Are

45:27

we willing to face the lions of our culture? Be

45:29

a Daniel, a challenge for

45:32

Moody Radio. How

45:35

long have you been a part of the Moody Radio

45:37

family? Well, I've been listening to Moody since 1993. And

45:41

I mean, I get up with Moody, I've got a

45:43

bit with Moody, and I've just been uplifting in my

45:45

life for all these years. The

45:48

teaching and the worship and Moody is

45:50

a station that is really rooted in

45:52

the word of God and the serious

45:54

about who is God. Serious

45:57

about God? That's us. And

45:59

we're seriously. grateful for listeners like

46:01

you.