0:03

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0:35

Hello, hello, hello. I

0:38

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0:51

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0:56

Well, it's time for you to know my

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1:02

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1:07

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1:10

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1:13

Goodall, Padma Lakshmi. I

1:16

will answer questions from listeners

1:18

too. What do I mean?

1:20

Building longer tables, not

1:23

higher walls, wherever you

1:25

get your podcasts.

1:30

Lemonada.

1:52

This is In The Bubble with Andy Slavitt. I

1:55

am pretty excited about the show I'm going to bring you

1:57

today. If I asked you, what would

1:59

you bring me?

1:59

The question, what's

2:02

the one part of society where

2:04

women and men get paid equally? You

2:07

already know the answer, because you looked at the title

2:09

of the show, so there's no

2:11

prize money. But the answer

2:13

is women's soccer. Women and men in the

2:16

World Cup get paid exactly the

2:18

same. Now there's some reasons for that, and

2:20

there was a lot of fighting

2:22

and a lot of struggle, and

2:25

everybody had an interesting role to play. The women

2:27

who fought for it, the men who

2:30

were getting paid more than the women, and what

2:32

they all chose to do, and it's a fascinating

2:34

story.

2:35

And it's maybe one of the examples

2:38

where the US is actually ahead

2:41

of the rest of the world, doing something right. And

2:44

the question is, what is it for tell

2:47

for other things? But it's something I want you to hear about today. From

2:49

my guest today,

2:51

Megan Clingenberg. Megan

2:54

was part of one of those World Cup victories. She

2:56

grew up at an age where

2:59

there was no professional women's soccer. She

3:01

grew up just as women were

3:04

starting to come on the scene in the World Cup.

3:06

And whether you're a soccer fan or not, and

3:08

I will confess, I am a soccer fan.

3:11

Kyle, our executive producer, who

3:13

you all love, is a big soccer fan.

3:16

But that's not why we're really doing the show today. Even if

3:18

you're not a big soccer fan, I just

3:20

tell you two things. One is, these

3:22

women are great. And there

3:25

are very few places in society

3:27

where we

3:28

lead by so much. I mean, the women's

3:31

soccer, in the US, they've won four

3:33

World Cups playing for their fifth,

3:36

third in a row. That doesn't happen

3:38

on the men's side. And they've won four gold medals

3:40

in the Olympics.

3:41

So they are great. It is fun to watch

3:44

your team do well, and watch

3:46

the women's World Cup. It's on right now. We're

3:49

leaving what they call the group stage, and entering the

3:51

single elimination tournament.

3:53

So we'll talk a little bit of soccer, just because that's what

3:55

Megan does, and I'm always fascinated to

3:58

talk about what people are passionate about. But

4:00

the real story here is

4:03

the new contract and

4:05

the equality and

4:07

the story around equality and this sort of age

4:10

old point of view that

4:12

men should be getting paid more than women because they're

4:14

commercial self for more. And contrast

4:17

that to what we're seeing

4:19

here on the women's side. I'm going to talk with

4:22

Megan about that. So

4:24

I'm excited to bring it to you. I'm

4:26

hoping to have a good summer. Let's

4:29

dig in with Megan.

4:31

Hi Megan. Hi

4:37

Andy,

4:38

how you doing? Does

4:41

your endurance training prepare you for seven

4:43

back to back interviews? You

4:46

know what? No, but that's okay because

4:48

this has been a blast. It

4:50

is hard to do though to keep talking and keep

4:52

answering the same questions. I completely understand.

4:54

Honestly, it's been an interesting challenge

4:57

because I feel like I get to answer

4:59

them in a different way every time. Some people

5:01

I think would stick to the same script,

5:03

but

5:04

I was like, you know what? Let's see if I... Let's

5:06

make something up. Let me make something up. Yeah. So

5:09

you'll get the most unique and

5:11

interesting perspective because I've

5:14

gone through a lot.

5:16

Yeah, feel free to lie. Don't worry about the truth. What

5:20

did you want to be as a kid? Well,

5:23

I

5:24

wanted it to either be an astronaut or

5:26

a soccer player.

5:28

How realistic did that seem? At

5:30

what point did you think that this was a real possibility

5:33

you might be good enough? Well, when I was growing

5:35

up, there wasn't a women's professional league.

5:38

Fun story. My

5:40

mom and I, when I was little, used to take these

5:43

little spontaneous road trips. She

5:45

would just pull me out of school on a Friday and

5:48

pick me up and we would head out on

5:50

the road. And sometimes we

5:52

would go to a museum or someplace

5:55

fun. Or one time we went

5:57

down...

5:57

We were going down to

5:59

the...

5:59

beach in North Carolina. It

6:02

was kind of a longer weekend. And

6:04

so we were driving down and it was Friday

6:06

night and mom said to me, hey, we're

6:09

going to make a quick stop off here

6:11

and check out something.

6:13

I'm like, what are we doing? She's like, just wait. So

6:16

we stopped and we stopped in Chapel Hill and

6:18

we watched the UNC Tar Heels play

6:21

against some other team. I have no

6:23

idea. But all I remember

6:25

is

6:26

sitting there at nine years old being

6:28

like, holy shit. I

6:31

want to be one of them because they

6:33

were imposing

6:35

their will on the other team. Like they were

6:37

the most badass women I'd ever seen in my

6:39

life. And so I knew that

6:42

I wanted to be a Tar Heel since I was nine

6:44

years old. And there

6:46

wasn't professional soccer then

6:49

for women and the

6:51

women's national team wasn't as well known

6:53

at that point. It was only like 1995 or

6:57

six or something like that. And

7:00

I didn't really start getting into it

7:02

after that Olympics. And

7:04

then the 99 women's World Cup where

7:06

that was a completely paradigm shift

7:09

in my entire being knowing

7:12

that I wanted to be on that team and be one

7:14

of those women.

7:14

So

7:17

your dream came true. You went to North Carolina

7:20

to play on that soccer team. As you

7:23

said, this is early 90s. I think when

7:25

I think people were just starting

7:28

to see the women's

7:30

game emerge, just for

7:32

people who aren't soccer fans, probably

7:35

know that the men's soccer team

7:37

has sort of been a, they've

7:40

never sort of competed at the elite level. Certainly

7:43

not to that point. And they've had some better

7:45

luck since, but nothing like the women's team.

7:48

Starting

7:49

with, as you mentioned, there was a team in 99,

7:52

which was the last time before you

7:55

were there that they won the cup. So

7:57

what was it like? Did you feel like you were?

8:00

part of something that

8:03

was sort of starting to take the country

8:05

by storm?

8:06

Oh, absolutely. I remember

8:08

watching that World Cup and

8:10

completely, unequivocally

8:12

falling in love with

8:14

the game. And I was

8:17

watching the final

8:19

with my mom and my best friend at the

8:21

time.

8:23

And we had an NSYNC concert

8:25

to go to that night. And if you remember

8:27

teenage, like teen girls,

8:30

we were pretty obsessed

8:32

with Justin Timberlake and the crew at that

8:35

point. So my best friend

8:37

keeps asking like, hey, when

8:39

are we gonna go? It's like going into overtime,

8:41

right? And we're like, we're not going. Like

8:44

we can't leave, it's overtime, you know? And

8:46

then she just kept kind of being like, are we going,

8:49

are we leaving, are we gonna make NSYNC? And

8:51

then they finally

8:52

were like, you know, shut the hell

8:54

up, we're watching the penalty kicks. Like, could

8:56

this be any better? And the funny part

8:59

was, is that NSYNC actually came on, I think

9:01

like an hour late, we didn't miss one song.

9:03

So we got to catch the World Cup final

9:05

with Brandi Chastain scoring that goal and

9:08

then see NSYNC.

9:09

I was at that game. You

9:11

were there? How was that? It's

9:13

crazy. I mean, I

9:15

was one of the most exciting things I've ever seen. The

9:18

fact that the US could win at

9:20

soccer, could take it all,

9:23

was just the most remote thing from

9:25

anybody's mind.

9:27

And there was, and I think that really

9:29

did something to the psyche of

9:32

something we'll get into in a few minutes, women's sports

9:35

and how they're perceived in

9:37

society, because I think that was a game changer

9:40

in many respects. Now,

9:43

we're gonna talk about this World Cup, where we're

9:45

about to enter, we're about to leave the group

9:47

stage, we're about to enter the

9:51

single elimination part of this for

9:53

those World Cup fans. That's an exciting time.

9:56

But before we talk about that, I wanna just

9:58

finish up a little bit on what type.

9:59

of a player, you are

10:02

where you continue to be. People

10:05

describe your pregame

10:08

kind of pep talks. I

10:10

don't know if there's a way to put it in words, but

10:13

you're kind of well known for

10:15

some of the leadership and

10:17

the spirit and the way you pick

10:19

people up. Is that kind of, you're always

10:21

been your role? Was that always like a real role on the team?

10:24

No, no, definitely not. I

10:26

definitely grew into that as

10:29

I got older and matured and thought about

10:31

the type of leader that I wanted to be, but

10:33

no, I was definitely not like that

10:36

at the beginning of my career.

10:39

What's the craziest thing you remember

10:41

saying to motivate

10:43

a team? I think I said something like grab

10:46

your gas cans and

10:49

your lighters and we're gonna light this place

10:51

on fire or something stupid like that.

10:53

I say that at the beginning of every

10:55

podcast too. It just

10:58

gets the production team excited.

11:01

It gets the energy pumping.

11:05

So let's talk about this tournament. What are you

11:07

seeing in this tournament

11:09

where we're talking about New

11:12

Zealand and Australia? We've got

11:14

the

11:14

US playing.

11:17

Tell us a little bit about what you're observing

11:19

as kind of a former player who

11:23

was there. We're going now, and I

11:25

guess we're going on our potential third consecutive

11:29

championship potential. We're playing for it. You

11:31

were there for the first one. What is

11:33

this? This is crazy. What is that like?

11:36

Well, first of all, I'm just a fan this time

11:38

and it's so nice to just be a fan.

11:41

I think in 2019, it was pretty

11:43

hard for me because I was

11:46

still dealing with a lot of emotions about not

11:48

being on the team anymore. And now I've

11:50

made my peace with that. And

11:52

I'm just so happy to be

11:54

a fan of this team and watch them

11:57

go through the World Cup. But

11:59

the one thing...

11:59

I've noticed as a fan

12:02

watching this World Cup is parody and

12:05

it's honestly so good

12:07

to watch. There are teams

12:09

that have been surprisingly

12:12

good in their first matches

12:15

and have brought a

12:17

lot of quality that I think

12:19

a lot of fans haven't expected. But

12:23

as you see like more women

12:25

from different countries go to these big

12:27

teams, play for these big teams, big

12:29

clubs and leagues that

12:31

are going to stretch and challenge

12:34

them and then they bring those talents back to their

12:36

countries, you're going to see these countries

12:38

do better and become better. And

12:41

that's what I've seen. And

12:43

that has been one of the most...

12:44

Is that another way of saying the rest of the world

12:47

is catching up to us? No, it's just a pleasure.

12:49

It's just a pleasure to watch good soccer. You

12:52

know, what is this, what does catching up even

12:54

mean, right? I think that the US

12:57

is always pushing the envelope. I think

12:59

that they're always playing on the edge

13:02

of

13:03

brave and like,

13:05

is it too much? And

13:07

that's always going to drive us forward. I have no

13:10

doubt about our team ever

13:12

pushing the envelope and being on the

13:14

edge of, you

13:15

know, history.

13:17

So what's the culture of it all? Why

13:19

is the US team such a

13:21

winning team? And

13:24

I think, you know, again, we have this context where,

13:27

you know, soccer has been played kind

13:29

of at a younger age in other parts

13:31

of the world, you know, certainly on the men's

13:33

side, the men's team has had a tough

13:36

time, you know, getting past the quarterfinals.

13:39

What is there about this team that, you

13:41

know, over the years, even as players

13:44

have changed, the US has been

13:46

able to stay near the top? Well, it certainly

13:48

helps when you historically have

13:50

had early success. And

13:53

we have. We first woke up in 1991 and then the

13:55

Olympics

13:56

and then, you know.

13:59

and then the World Cup in 99. So we've

14:02

had a lot of early success. And

14:04

I think that when you have that type of early success,

14:06

you believe. So there's generations,

14:10

my generation of women now, but

14:12

girls at the time that believed

14:15

they could be on that team and believed

14:17

that they could win a World Cup because they've seen

14:19

it done. And when you have

14:22

role models that show you that things

14:24

that can be done, it becomes entirely

14:26

possible in your mind to be that person.

14:29

And

14:29

I think that gave us a

14:32

huge leg up over other countries at

14:35

the beginning. And now I think winning

14:37

has become a part of

14:39

our

14:40

cultural identity with

14:43

the national team. And so now it's

14:45

just become like, hey, this

14:47

is the very best of the best. And to be

14:49

here, you have to be the very best of the best.

14:52

And when you get the very best of the best, all

14:55

living and training and playing together,

14:58

all of these months and these

15:01

years, then you have this kind

15:03

of snowball effect where it keeps getting

15:05

bigger and it's getting harder

15:07

to stop.

15:09

It's pretty special. It's pretty special

15:11

to see that belief. Let me

15:13

take a quick break. It is fun talking about soccer.

15:15

We're gonna come back and we're gonna talk

15:17

about the big new change

15:20

in women's soccer,

15:21

the big new change in society,

15:23

which is the new contract

15:25

and the first time in history that women and men

15:28

are gonna get paid the same thing. We'll be right back.

15:30

In summer, I feel like my

15:33

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17:10

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Her next choice? Starting her new podcast

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Choice Words is out now wherever you get your

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17:54

you know the other big story that I

17:56

think is really transformational

17:58

story and maybe the beginning

18:00

of a new trend, is

18:03

this is the first World Cup after

18:05

the equal pay agreement went into

18:07

effect.

18:08

For those who aren't familiar, you wanna share

18:11

a little bit about what happened and how

18:13

it happened and what that means?

18:15

Sure. Historically,

18:17

our women's national team has been underpaid

18:20

by the US Soccer Federation and

18:23

also FIFA.

18:26

So... By the way, just to give

18:28

a data point, I may be wrong about this, but

18:30

there was something like $400 million of

18:32

prize money for the men's and $30 million

18:35

for the women's from FIFA,

18:37

historically. Huge cap. Yeah,

18:40

it's stupidly unequal. And

18:43

so, basically, the

18:45

origin of it dates back well

18:47

before my time, but what happened in 2015 is

18:50

that we were standing up there on the

18:53

winner's podium and the confetti was falling

18:55

down and we're celebrating

18:58

all of our hard work

19:00

that we've been putting in since we were children.

19:03

And what we realized is that everybody was

19:05

making money but us.

19:08

Our hard work and we weren't

19:10

making the money. The,

19:13

I mean, the federations were, FIFA was,

19:18

media rights holders were, sponsors

19:20

were, everybody was making money off

19:22

of our win and we weren't. From you, right.

19:25

Exactly, but it was us that did it. And

19:27

so we were like, this doesn't feel right.

19:30

And so we started getting way more involved

19:32

with our union, organizing

19:35

and creating a space where

19:37

we knew what we wanted and

19:40

how we were gonna go after it. And so in 2016 and 2017,

19:42

we started paving the way with

19:45

a new collective bargaining agreement, which

19:47

took giant leap forward.

19:49

I think set the bar in terms of

19:52

how we wanted to be respected and how we wanted

19:54

to move forward with US soccer. And then

19:57

we said, you know what, enough is enough.

19:59

This is completely

20:02

unfair. Historically,

20:05

we have done better than

20:07

the men and we deserve

20:10

to be paid equally to them. So

20:12

we took that kind of part to court. We

20:15

took it to the media. We even

20:18

talked to the EEOC, which I

20:21

don't know if you noticed, but it's the Equal

20:23

Employment

20:24

The Opportunity Commission. Yeah.

20:28

We started tackling this on a three-pronged

20:31

front and said, we're going to go

20:33

after this and see how we can make this a reality.

20:37

We actually ended up doing it. We achieved

20:39

equal pay, which is so cool because it's never

20:41

been done in sport.

20:42

I'm not sure it's been done in society.

20:45

No, exactly. It sets this incredible precedent

20:47

across the United States, but also

20:49

the world. I think that

20:52

it seeps over into other

20:54

areas that aren't sport

20:57

and sets this precedent that's like, okay,

20:59

you know what? If they can do it in sport, we

21:01

can do it in all of these other areas.

21:05

Right.

21:05

Well, there's so many interesting

21:08

elements to this. First

21:11

off, as you said, the women's team was

21:13

far more successful. I

21:16

think, if I remember correctly, lost the court

21:18

case and still prevailed

21:21

at the bargaining table. The other thing

21:23

that's interesting is the role that the men's soccer

21:25

team played in this. Do

21:27

you want to share what happened

21:30

there and what your thoughts were about that?

21:32

Oh, sure. Yeah.

21:34

I mean, at the beginning of this, I think it

21:36

was a little bit difficult

21:39

for the men to wrap their brains

21:41

around what was going on with us and our

21:43

lawsuit and what we were pushing

21:46

for. I think the message, unfortunately,

21:49

was one of pitting

21:51

us versus them, which it really isn't. I

21:55

think once we started digging down into it and

21:57

talking to them and letting them know, hey, this is.

21:59

This isn't an us versus you thing. This

22:02

isn't us thing. This isn't

22:04

everyone thing. Like when

22:06

you lift the, like the tide lifts everybody.

22:10

And so I think what happened

22:12

is that

22:13

they realized that this is

22:15

not only beneficial for us, but it

22:17

will be beneficial for them as well.

22:20

And I think they took a really principled

22:22

stand and I'm really proud of them for the

22:24

stand that they took because it's not

22:26

been done really.

22:30

Around the world and it

22:32

has in other countries, but not

22:35

to the extent where the men actually are sharing

22:38

what they earn with women

22:41

to create equality. Even

22:44

in Norway, where they do have

22:46

equal pay with their women's national

22:48

team, the men aren't sharing their

22:50

FIFA money that they win with the

22:53

women. So this is a historic

22:55

deal. These men actually took

22:58

so much pride in wanting

23:00

to create a landscape where it's

23:02

more fair for women and

23:05

other marginalized communities that

23:07

they actually gave up

23:09

some of their own earnings to

23:11

create that new landscape

23:13

for a future that looks better and brighter.

23:17

Wow. Yeah, I mean, look, not to make

23:20

the men the hero in the story because actually

23:24

I don't think that's the point,

23:25

but it is important in the kind of

23:27

conversation about allies to

23:30

think about,

23:31

you know, it's all well and good to advocate for someone else.

23:33

It's really a different story when you advocate for someone

23:35

else at your own expense because

23:38

you know it's the right thing. And as

23:40

you said, they are getting paid less. They took money out of their

23:42

pocket because they believe that they want

23:44

to get paid the same as women. And

23:46

it puts the US in an unusual

23:49

position of being a leader here.

23:51

So

23:54

it is really interesting that

23:56

if you think about back to being a

23:59

little girl and what you wanted to be,

23:59

and you grew up and just where we started the conversation, it's

24:02

like that success you talked

24:04

about, that winning culture, that being part

24:07

of women's soccer, where

24:09

it would lead, that it would actually end up being

24:11

the place that broke

24:13

society's back

24:16

on this kind of incredible

24:18

amount of inequity.

24:20

Yeah, I mean,

24:21

when you say you're an ally, an ally isn't

24:23

just saying that you're an ally, it's not showing

24:26

up to the pride parade and all rainbow.

24:29

You know what I mean? It's not, like, that's not being

24:31

an ally, that's just partying with

24:34

the queer community.

24:35

I look good in rain, I look good in rainbow, by the

24:37

way, just so you know. Like, rainbow's a great color

24:39

on a lot of people, but what I'm saying is

24:41

that allyship means

24:44

actually taking a principled stand where

24:46

you're sticking your neck out in

24:48

a way that,

24:50

honestly, we have to do

24:52

every single day of our lives. Just

24:55

because we're women,

24:56

just because we're women, we have

24:58

to endure things that men don't

25:00

have to endure simply because we are

25:02

the opposite gender. And

25:04

so this

25:06

is the type of allyship that, I

25:09

know the story isn't about the men, but I

25:11

want people to know that this

25:16

is something to be proud of. Because

25:19

if people are proud of this and

25:22

see the men doing this as an

25:24

example, then more people will. And

25:26

that will only create a better world. And

25:28

honestly, I don't think in the long

25:30

run that the men will be

25:33

having any money out of their pockets. Because

25:36

in the long run, I think things are definitely

25:38

gonna just create more opportunity

25:41

and money for each other.

25:43

Right, well, and you're

25:45

a professional soccer player, obviously, in

25:47

the NWSL. And there

25:50

is not yet parity,

25:51

at least as far as I know, between the

25:54

NWSL

25:55

and the Major League Soccer,

25:57

MLS. Next

26:00

I mean is is that where this

26:03

needs to go next hell yeah That's

26:06

definitely where this needs to go next and

26:08

hopefully I've been saying

26:11

every to everybody that

26:12

has been watching I'm like hey you

26:14

can see these players play weekend and

26:17

week out in the NW cell these

26:19

players are playing against each other Every

26:22

single week in the NW cell and these

26:24

are high quality matches where

26:29

every team is competitive

26:33

So there's not going to be a bad match to watch

26:35

in this whole league so I

26:38

encourage people be like hey

26:40

Stoke that fandom

26:42

and make sure that the fandom

26:44

keeps ongoing even after this World Cup ends

26:46

because I think once you create

26:48

more eyeballs and create more fandom and

26:50

create more

26:52

Community around the NW

26:54

cell that only leads to better things

26:56

for the players in it for the fans

27:00

For the cities in which these teams play

27:02

the communities there So

27:05

to me it's just as

27:07

we as we keep going We

27:10

just need to keep making sure that

27:12

we're not leaving behind the

27:15

women that are you

27:16

know creating this league that

27:19

Is The

27:21

staging place for the World Cup like

27:24

the the 23 best players and in

27:27

the country shouldn't

27:29

just get to benefit off of the

27:31

you know the hard work of Everybody

27:34

creating a better landscape for soccer like

27:36

we need to make sure that everybody is

27:38

benefiting from The

27:41

World Cup and the NW cell and the eyeballs

27:43

on this on this game

27:44

Okay, Megan, let's take one

27:47

more final break and you know

27:49

didn't want to come back one of these I want to ask you is what

27:52

happens when you realize your dreams what you

27:54

did as a young person You know what's next

27:56

what's coming up for you next and if you got an exciting project

27:58

we'll talk about

27:59

as well as finish up talking about the issues

28:03

around the pay gaps in this

28:05

country in that argument. We'll be right back.

28:17

In rural Alabama, a young black woman

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Plea, a new true crime series from Lemon Automedia,

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28:43

Hi,

28:45

I'm Elise Myers. I'm a content creator and comedian.

28:48

You might know me from TikTok. Why

28:50

am I in your ears right now? Well, that's a great question.

28:52

I would love to tell you. I

28:54

have a new podcast called Funny Cause It's True.

28:57

On my show, I'll be interviewing comedians, pop

28:59

culture icons, and also just people I find

29:01

really funny. We'll be talking about the awkward

29:04

moments that keep you awake at night. Because

29:06

if you don't laugh, you cry, right?

29:08

Okay, Funny Cause It's True. Out now wherever you

29:10

get your podcasts.

29:23

What's the response to the people who are listening

29:26

who are saying,

29:27

sure, I support equality, but

29:31

does the money follow the revenue? And

29:33

if someone pays more for an advertisement

29:36

on an immense sport than they pay

29:38

in a women's sport because there's more eyeballs,

29:41

isn't that just the way it goes? And isn't that the

29:44

same thing as, you know, while LeBron James gets

29:46

paid more than, you know, you

29:49

know, you get my point. I'm sure you've heard that argument

29:51

over and over again. I've heard that

29:52

argument a lot. And I feel

29:56

like it's been debunked at this point, but

29:59

clearly the people. that need to hear this

30:01

aren't listening very hard because

30:04

it's not about the revenue,

30:06

it's about the investment. The

30:09

men's game has,

30:12

sorry, 1000x

30:14

more investment than the women's game.

30:17

So how can we even compare revenue

30:20

when the investment is just so

30:22

far off? That doesn't even make

30:24

sense. It's an apple to oranges argument

30:27

that has absolutely no bearing on

30:30

common sense. And I feel like if you use

30:33

it, it's only because you don't want

30:35

women

30:36

to be able to earn

30:38

equal pay or you don't want equality. Well,

30:42

I think there probably are people who haven't

30:44

thought enough about the issue

30:46

who hear that argument

30:47

and don't necessarily know how to

30:50

refute it may feel like, I

30:52

don't think that should be right. But boy,

30:55

is this the way business works? Why is that wrong?

30:57

And so I think you've given an answer. But I mean, at the

30:59

same time, it's like, how can you expect, like

31:02

if you invest $1,000 or $10 in something,

31:06

it's like a totally different outcome

31:08

after 10 years. And I think the

31:11

men's game has

31:13

been going

31:16

for hundreds of years. The

31:19

women's professional league has only

31:21

been around for 10. And so

31:24

to compare investment, when you compare

31:26

investment, and then you also compare the time that

31:30

the league has had to develop a fan

31:32

base, it's just not the same.

31:34

It's not really a comparison game.

31:37

I just think that

31:40

what is deserved

31:42

is more investment. And it

31:45

just needs to be more each year. It doesn't

31:48

need to be crazy. It just needs to be

31:50

more. And we need to get to a point where

31:53

we're like, hey,

31:54

this is something that is going to be

31:56

and I think we are getting there, by the way, this

31:59

is going to be something

31:59

that's gonna blow up because I really

32:02

do think that women's leagues are

32:04

gonna blow up and they're gonna be a great investment

32:06

because the men's game is filled

32:08

with money I don't know how much bigger it can get

32:11

but the women's game has the potential

32:13

to be where the men's game is and

32:16

it's a thousand X less right now so right

32:18

imagine that type of you know return

32:21

on your investment if you get in at this

32:23

point in the women's game sure

32:24

yeah well look at and I think we

32:26

have rules and we have laws and we have

32:28

collective bargaining for a reason and the

32:30

reason is because capitalism doesn't

32:33

dictate our worth

32:35

and I think the decision

32:36

that has been people have been asking for

32:39

for years

32:40

we finally broke it through and and I

32:42

think this is what one of the things that should give people really

32:44

great optimism subsequent to this

32:47

agreement

32:48

the Equal Pay Act for Team USA came

32:50

in front of Congress

32:52

and in December of last

32:54

year and it passed the

32:58

Senate

32:59

with a hundred votes

33:01

so Team USA all

33:03

sports now have to pay men and women the same and

33:06

not a single senator voted

33:09

against it so

33:12

if you're looking for signs

33:14

that we're not all screwed up that we actually

33:16

we actually do have a value system that we

33:18

do believe in the right thing there's massive

33:20

consensus on this issue I mean and

33:23

so for people who are hearing that

33:25

old argument I would point

33:28

to the United States Senate with that's just

33:30

plenty of people with plenty of differing views

33:33

not always supportive of women

33:35

to be to be clear who

33:38

are supporting this and I think that's a fascinating

33:40

and really positive step

33:42

well this is me learning that

33:45

a hundred senators voted for

33:47

this bill I knew it passed but I didn't

33:49

know it passed with a hundred percent of

33:52

the senators that's really cool thank you for that

33:55

it's very cool

33:56

it's very cool it's very

33:58

cool it's okay so now you

33:59

You've reached through your childhood dream, you've

34:02

surpassed your childhood dream, let's be honest. You wanted to play

34:04

with UNC, you did that, and

34:06

you won a World Cup.

34:08

And so, what's next? I mean, obviously

34:10

the big prize ahead is having a

34:13

podcast of your own, right? Of

34:15

course it is. Who doesn't want a podcast,

34:17

right? Oh, I can tell you, once

34:20

you've done that, you're on Easy Street. Tell

34:23

us about your podcast. Sure, it's called

34:25

My New Favorite Fubalista. And

34:28

it is a podcast

34:31

featuring 10 women from

34:34

different countries, but going to the World Cup. And

34:37

what we did is we dug into their

34:39

stories, and it's not about soccer, it's about

34:41

them as humans. They're inspiring,

34:44

sometimes devastating, joyful,

34:48

hopes and dreams and journeys that

34:51

we dug in and talked with them about.

34:54

And

34:54

it was honestly one of the coolest

34:56

things that I've done in my entire career. And

35:00

I had an absolute blast getting to know

35:02

these women as people, not just

35:04

soccer players. And I highly recommend

35:07

that people give it a listen, not because of

35:09

me, but because these stories are worth highlighting

35:12

and these women are worth

35:15

the shining the

35:17

light on them. You really seem to have

35:19

fun with it. I made it really, am I

35:22

wrong? No, I had a blast. I mean, okay,

35:25

soccer is my passion. I love soccer.

35:28

I've never found anything else that

35:30

gives me that same feeling that soccer gives.

35:32

But this has come

35:35

very close. I have

35:38

had a blast. I got to just be me, get

35:40

curious, which is one of my favorite things

35:42

to be, ask the questions, learn

35:44

new things, get to know people, and

35:48

then spread that around to

35:50

other people so they get to know these women

35:52

in the way that I got to know them. It's been

35:55

such a blessing.

35:56

It's so funny you say that, Megan,

35:59

because

36:00

I find that our best

36:03

shows are 100% when

36:07

I'm super curious and

36:10

super interested in the other person like I am in you.

36:13

And we just talk about whatever

36:15

matters to you and what's interesting

36:17

to you and about you. And

36:19

I think that

36:20

shows through. And

36:23

if I can't bring that,

36:25

then I'm the wrong host, we got

36:27

the wrong guest or whatever. But

36:30

I figure if it's fun for me, it's fun for the

36:32

audience. That's kind of how I've sort of tended to see

36:34

it.

36:34

Oh, totally. I mean, these

36:37

women were talking about things

36:40

in their lives that they don't usually

36:42

talk about. So whether it's their mother's

36:44

death or their ovarian cancer

36:46

treatment at 15.

36:47

15 years old. Yeah. What

36:49

an incredible story that was. Yeah, or

36:52

their immigrant journey to America.

36:54

Like these are vulnerable

36:56

topics and they don't

36:59

usually get brought up in the media. And so I

37:02

felt that

37:03

the only way for me

37:05

to be able to tell these stories in the best way

37:07

possible was to be vulnerable

37:09

myself and authentic myself. Because

37:13

if they were brave enough to do it, then I certainly

37:15

had to be.

37:16

Right, let's pour some gasoline on it and let

37:18

it on fire. Precisely. Precisely.

37:21

Well, Megan, thank you so much.

37:24

So kind of you to come into the bubble.

37:26

Very excited to watch the rest of the cup.

37:29

I'll be thinking about, you know, like having

37:31

your commentary alongside

37:33

me because I love to watch with people

37:36

who really get it. Because there's so many

37:38

subtle things that happen

37:40

that have just changed the game.

37:42

It's just so much fun. It's such an exciting time.

37:44

Well, and the subtleties are like the

37:46

best parts of the game, aren't they? Totally, totally.

37:49

When you're able to get to the point where you

37:51

can enjoy something so much because of the subtleties,

37:53

like the

37:55

pass to the correct foot, or

37:57

the weight of the pass, or... just

38:00

like how they shut down angles,

38:02

but they're not even in the

38:04

area of the ball. Like when you get to that

38:07

point as a fan and

38:09

you get to see that and see these

38:11

incredible players do

38:13

that stuff, I mean, it's just like a different

38:16

type of watching, isn't it?

38:17

Totally, it's so cool.

38:19

And to boot, watching soccer

38:22

now, knowing

38:23

that for the first time, we're

38:26

beginning to pay people fairly,

38:28

that's also pretty frickin' cool also. Yes,

38:31

that is definitely pretty

38:33

frickin' cool. Megan, great

38:35

to talk to you. Thank you, it's been a

38:37

blast.

38:39

["The Star-Spangled

38:41

Banner"] Thank

38:51

you to Megan, really great

38:53

episode, really great to talk

38:56

to her.

38:57

Hey, I hope you're enjoying the summer. Let me tell you, we've got a

38:59

few great episodes coming up. The

39:01

new head of the CDC, Mandy Cohen, will

39:03

be on shortly,

39:06

as will Congresswoman

39:08

Susan DelBene from Washington, as

39:11

well as more,

39:13

more, more, more, more, that's all I can tell you,

39:15

more, more, more good stuff as we're

39:17

getting through our summer programming. So,

39:20

hope you are enjoying our once a week format.

39:22

I'm having fun bringing the show to you. I

39:25

think we're getting some really great guests.

39:27

Email me, tell me more of what you need,

39:30

and we will respond and

39:32

we will get on it. We got a couple great suggestions

39:34

this week. Bye for now.

39:44

Thank you for listening to In the Bubble. If

39:46

you like what you heard, rate and review,

39:49

and most importantly, tell a friend

39:51

about the show, tell anyone about the show. We're

39:53

a production of Lemonado Media. Cal

39:55

Shealy is the senior producer of our show. He's

39:57

the main guy, and he rocks it with

39:59

me. every week. The mix is by

40:02

Noah Smith and he's a wizard. He

40:04

does all the technical stuff and he's a cool guy. Steve

40:06

Nelson is the vice president of weekly content.

40:09

He's well above average. And of course,

40:11

the ultimate big bosses are

40:13

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40:16

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40:20

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40:22

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40:24

composed by Dan Mallott and Oliver Hill and

40:27

additional music is by Ivan Karayev.

40:30

You can find out more about our show on social

40:32

media at Lemonada Media where

40:34

you can also get a transcript of the show and

40:37

buy some In The Bubble gear. Email

40:39

me directly at andy at LemonadaMedia.com.

40:42

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40:45

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40:47

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40:50

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40:52

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Does keeping up with the news cycle feel like a daunting

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task? Join me, V Spheer,

41:07

on V Interesting from Lemonada Media

41:09

with fascinating guests like Mercury

41:11

Stardust, Taylor Lorenz, and

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Hank Green. We'll break down what you

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I want us to be smart together. V Interesting

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how you doing? I'm Niall Breslin, host

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