0:00

Impact of Influence. Covering

0:03

true crime throughout the Southeast. Hello

0:09

friend, so grateful you spent time

0:11

with us today. Matt Harris and

0:13

Seton Tucker. You can find Impact

0:15

of Influence on Facebook. We'd

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love it if you'd rate and share

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the episode. Make a comment as well

0:22

and join in the conversation, as I

0:24

said, on Impact of Influence on

0:27

Facebook. And for the

0:29

Evergreen Podcast Network.

0:32

And as we have been

0:34

saying, we thought we were

0:36

moving on from the Alec Murdoch stuff. And we

0:38

have with the other episodes, and

0:40

we'll be still dealing with true crime throughout

0:42

the Southeast. But it

0:45

seems either Alec Murdoch stuff

0:48

or Alec Murdoch adjacent things

0:51

keep falling into our lap, which we have

0:53

to continue. So you will know every

0:55

little thing that's happening. And Seton,

0:59

where would you like to start on this episode?

1:02

Well, we have a few updates on

1:05

the Becky Hill front. Governor McMaster has

1:07

appointed an interim clerk of court for

1:09

Colliton County. And this

1:11

is former longtime clerk Patricia Grant.

1:14

And she had served over 20

1:16

years as a clerk of court in Colliton

1:18

County and also received the order of the

1:20

Palmetto. Big time award type thing? Right.

1:23

And that's one of the award, I believe, ran

1:25

off Murdoch received. I actually

1:27

met her personally many years ago.

1:30

We got our passports at the Colliton County

1:32

clerk house and she was very professional and

1:34

nice. You did get your passports there? Yeah,

1:36

because. Why did you get your passports there? It

1:39

was the wait and your county was so long at

1:41

the time. And I don't know if it's still the

1:43

case because my kids are older now. Both

1:45

parents had to go and you had to

1:48

make an appointment and agree that your kids

1:50

could get passports. This is

1:52

before all the Murdoch stuff. This is way before all the

1:54

Murdoch stuff. And we were on our way to Edisto. And

1:57

so we just figured we checked and

1:59

the schedule. Walterboro

2:02

was way easier than the schedule in York

2:04

County so we just stopped on our way

2:06

to Edisto and got our passports there. And

2:09

also Fitch News reported that Clerk

2:11

Grant has fired Deputy Clerk of

2:13

Court Gary Hale Jr.

2:17

Tell me more about that. Well he is

2:19

the person who Becky Hale claimed took the

2:21

photo of Alec Murdoch in his cell. Remember

2:23

there's a photo where during the trial he

2:26

was in this holding cell and he's laying

2:28

down and he's reading a book and

2:32

they said this was taken from a

2:34

public camera in the courthouse. Anyway

2:37

and this photo was used to promote

2:39

the book during the initial stuff online

2:41

but it was not actually used in

2:44

the book behind the doors of Jess.

2:46

Oh it was used to promote the book.

2:48

It was used to promote. But it didn't

2:50

make it into the book and I don't

2:52

know if that was on advice of a

2:54

lawyer babysit. I'm not sure you should use

2:56

that. And Fitch News reported a while

2:59

ago that that photo was actually taken

3:01

from a screen in Becky Hill's office.

3:03

So the question is Hale

3:06

took it. Becky says Hale

3:08

took it but did she get permission to

3:10

Hale? She's saying no. Right?

3:13

Right and I think Hale was

3:15

someone who was promoted by Becky

3:17

Hale and he also

3:19

has announced that he's running for the Clerk

3:21

of Court position. Okay so Becky

3:24

is out of course as you heard us talk

3:26

about a few weeks ago. She resigned. Resigned. She

3:29

wanted to spend more time with her family. And

3:32

he would appear to

3:34

be friendly with Becky Hill because she

3:36

appointed him but then again she also threw him under

3:38

the bus at being the guy who took the

3:41

picture. I don't know

3:43

where that relationship stands. But

3:45

also the fact that he has

3:47

been let go by clerk Grant

3:49

makes you wonder what's going on.

3:51

Okay so if you move in though and you take

3:53

over a position and you know that somebody has

3:56

taken that photo which

3:58

is super inappropriate. You might say, and

4:00

also be friends with the ex-clerca court is going through a whole

4:02

bunch of stuff. You might say, I got to clean a little

4:05

house here. Right. Maybe we need to just

4:07

have people who are not involved in this

4:09

situation at all. Now, Fitz

4:11

News has also said that the investigation

4:13

into Clerk Hill is picking

4:15

up momentum and that

4:18

she is being looked into

4:20

for abusing her position of public trust,

4:23

obstruction of justice and perjury. And

4:25

to be clear, she's not been charged

4:28

with anything at this point. No, but

4:31

we have former Chief Justice

4:33

Toll, who said that

4:35

she did not buy everything

4:37

that she said on the stand during

4:39

the evidentiary hearing and Alex Murdoch's

4:41

bid to get a new trial. And

4:43

we know that there's been ethics investigations

4:46

in her because there have been

4:49

ethics complaints lodged against her, but

4:51

criminally, no charges as of yet.

4:54

Yeah, and the ethics investigation is confidential, so we

4:56

really don't know the status of that as well.

4:59

Fitz is also talking about some payments. Explain

5:01

that. So there is a

5:04

bailiff named Kashi Katterton and she

5:06

received six payments in the first

5:08

three months of 2023, which is

5:10

during the trial for

5:12

a total of nine hundred and fifty dollars.

5:15

And they were reportedly for cleaning

5:17

work done at the Colleton County

5:19

courthouse during the murder trial. But

5:22

according to Fitz's source,

5:24

they're saying that this was not to clean

5:26

the courthouse, it was actually to clean her

5:28

personal residence. To clean Becky Hill's residence?

5:31

Yes. Okay. And, you know,

5:33

there was this whole dump of

5:35

records that were released of Clerk

5:37

Hill's communications. Bunch of emails. Yes.

5:40

And there was an email dated August

5:43

23rd of 2024 from John

5:45

Carpenter with the Colton County

5:47

Finance Department to Ms. Hill.

5:50

And he is questioning expenses made

5:52

out of office accounts. And

5:56

in one of the emails it says, it's

5:58

important that reimbursements provide... employees are

6:00

paid under guidelines set by counsel

6:03

in an annual budget ordinance. Additional

6:06

compensation to employees is not allowed

6:08

without counsel approval. So

6:10

it looks like there's some validity

6:12

to Fitz's report that they are

6:14

looking into these claims.

6:19

And also, I think Ms.

6:22

Catterton did have a cleaning service. Whether

6:24

she cleaned the courthouse or whether she cleaned

6:26

Ms. Hill's personal residence,

6:29

that's the question. And

6:31

we opened with talking a bit about some

6:33

of the latest on the Becky Hill saga.

6:36

And that brings us to our guest,

6:40

Neil and Melissa Gordon are with us. So

6:43

is Mike Pachetonik. They

6:46

together founded Trial Watchers LLC in February. We'll

6:48

get more to that in a minute. But

6:52

Neil and Melissa, you know from being on

6:54

the show before, Melissa attended the Murdoch trial

6:56

and hearings and shot a lot of behind

6:58

the scenes video that is being used for

7:01

a docu-series with episode one coming

7:03

out in time for CrimeCon in

7:05

late May in Nashville. And

7:07

of course, the book is the thing

7:09

that we had them on for before and

7:12

the controversy with lawyer

7:14

Lori and all that. And

7:17

so we're going to open with that and move on

7:19

to their latest venture. But

7:22

the book has

7:25

been, I guess, still put on

7:27

hold. Let's find out what the

7:29

latest is behind the doors that

7:31

you guys co-authored with Becky Hill.

7:34

What is the status of the book, Neil? Yes,

7:38

it's been unpublished and

7:40

the only way that I guess

7:42

people can purchase the book is

7:45

through the black

7:48

market, if you will. It's

7:50

going to work. Through others that

7:52

we understand have been passing it

7:54

around because I think there's

7:56

always an interest when you're told you

7:59

can't have something. and you can't buy

8:01

anything that people want it. But

8:04

it is not being sold through Amazon. There

8:07

are no Kindle versions out or audiobooks, etc.

8:10

And the primary reason that you, I think,

8:13

took this off of the

8:16

market is because of the plagiarism. When

8:19

did these plagiarism revelations

8:21

come to you? Was there

8:23

any sort of effort to make sure that plagiarism

8:27

didn't happen beforehand? How did it play out?

8:30

Just before Christmas weekend, late

8:33

Thursday night, Friday morning before

8:35

Christmas, which was Monday, just

8:38

looking through the email

8:40

dump that was released by

8:42

Colliton County, I

8:45

was totally shocked and caught off

8:47

guard. And I

8:50

think Melissa said it

8:52

very well. We just didn't expect that

8:54

from Becky. No, we didn't.

8:57

And she has admitted it. She

9:00

has messed up that she did commit

9:03

plagiarism. It wasn't anything that you guys

9:05

wrote, right? This was in some sort

9:07

of introduction or forward or something? Yeah,

9:09

it was the process of the book. And

9:13

again, she's the clerk of court,

9:15

an elected official and someone we

9:17

had gotten close to as a

9:19

friend. And so no,

9:21

we did not check anything out

9:24

as it came in and didn't have

9:26

any concerns. And

9:29

then I believe that you were going to donate

9:31

some portions of the proceeds or something at some

9:33

point to charity. Can

9:35

you tell us about that? Yes,

9:38

yes. Once it was

9:40

discovered on the plagiarism and

9:42

Becky told us that she

9:45

had done that, we began to

9:48

disengage a bit and figure out

9:50

what path we would move forward

9:52

with. Neil and

9:54

I, through a lot of

9:56

prayer and discussion felt like

9:58

a good question. conscience, we could

10:00

not keep any money

10:04

that would be coming in from this

10:06

because it wasn't our

10:08

work. And so we

10:11

decided when the royalties came in,

10:14

we would take 100% of that money after

10:18

whatever cost we had and rent check

10:21

to a couple charities in the Lowcountry. We

10:23

just felt like it was the right thing

10:25

to do. Yes, that's

10:27

the community foundation of

10:30

the Lowcountry. They're based in Hilton Head, but

10:32

they have dozens and dozens

10:34

of nonprofits and charities that they

10:36

work with, including the ones set

10:39

up in honor of the late

10:41

Gloria Satterfield and Stephen Smith. And

10:43

we just thought in light of

10:47

all that had occurred with the

10:49

trial and the Murdoch and the

10:51

sort of association

10:53

of some regard that we thought

10:55

that that would be a good

10:58

place to donate the proceeds. It

11:00

was the plagiarism, though, that caused

11:03

you to do that because you had known about the ethics

11:06

complaint, but you

11:08

didn't pull it off the shelves then. Like

11:11

the ethics complaint, you kind of pushed back against

11:13

the narrative that Becky had done anything

11:15

wrong. And

11:17

so you were bailing on it because of

11:19

the plagiarism. But have you changed your viewpoint

11:21

on Becky and her ethics?

11:23

That's interesting. Good question. We

11:26

both said we're interviewed by Sled

11:29

just about her ethics

11:31

and promotional activities

11:33

and so forth. But

11:35

to date, as far as I

11:38

know, she's not been charged with

11:40

any crime or anything of that

11:42

regard. So we live in a

11:44

society of innocent until proven guilty.

11:47

Absolutely. I'm just

11:49

curious, though, because you

11:51

were strongly in her camp. I'm

11:53

not saying anything wrong with that. We all

11:55

thought she was what she was. Yeah, I

11:57

know. We really found her a lovely person.

12:00

and when we engage with her. But then she goes

12:02

in on the stand and

12:04

Justice Tola is like, I'm not

12:06

buying everything you're selling here. More

12:09

and more and more has come out since that

12:11

original complaint. So that's why

12:13

I'm kind of, yes,

12:15

you're innocent until proof of guilty, we all get that. But

12:19

are you firmly entrenched in her camp still

12:21

or you have questions about her? Definitely

12:23

have questions. Okay. I

12:26

think it's hard. We started this

12:28

journey and she was an officer of

12:30

the court. I gave

12:32

her complete trust just like I would

12:34

any law enforcement officer or

12:37

anything else. Just like everybody said

12:39

and she was a lovely person and

12:41

kind. I

12:43

began to disengage in December,

12:45

mid-December. There's a

12:47

lot of smoke is what we're saying here

12:49

right now. There was. There

12:52

is a lot of smoke and we

12:55

definitely wish her the best.

12:57

I'm lost for words. I

13:00

think you're not going to die on the

13:02

hill that hill right now for

13:04

her because it's smoky. Let's

13:06

talk about this. We

13:09

received a call

13:12

from sled about when she came on our

13:14

podcast and gave an interview about her book.

13:17

I know you've said that you were interviewed by

13:19

sled. What were they questioning you

13:21

about and how long did this interview last?

13:25

Well, it was about two

13:27

hours that we were

13:29

interviewed by one investigator.

13:33

Melissa became part of it because she

13:35

helped to find some dates

13:38

and some times that we went

13:40

out on the road and did

13:42

some promotional activities. He even

13:45

asked us to research

13:47

it further and be

13:49

as exact as possible. It ended up,

13:53

Matt and Seton, that we did 20 different

13:55

book signings, media

13:57

appearances or speaking. engagements

14:00

and I'm speaking that in which Becky

14:02

was involved and he basically

14:04

wanted to know Did

14:06

it occurred during the week and

14:09

it occurred during the week? What time

14:11

of day was it and He

14:13

was very assertive about it and just kind

14:16

of gave me the impression that There's

14:20

definitely an issue related

14:24

to When

14:26

all of this occurred and I

14:28

should tell you that When when

14:30

we were getting ready to go out on

14:33

the road particularly one week in August I

14:35

looked at her and I said do you

14:37

have vacation time? To

14:39

be able to sort of take off and

14:42

do this and she said well, I'm an

14:44

elected official I really

14:46

don't have to file paperwork like

14:48

for PTO or vacation time or

14:51

sick time. I work

14:53

a lot of hours So

14:55

as long as the court system is

14:57

running, okay I am allowed to do

15:00

this and I thought okay, you're the

15:02

court court if that's what you say

15:04

then understood Any

15:07

of her You

15:10

know, yeah any of that, you know, that's kind

15:12

of not our you know We weren't there to

15:14

to kind of police her on things

15:16

like that We just trusted that if

15:18

she said she could be off then she could

15:21

I mean and probably like all

15:23

of us that have Worked salaried

15:25

positions before you accrue

15:28

a certain number of days off and vacation

15:30

and all of that And you know, you

15:32

don't even think twice that you certainly you

15:35

you can do that but

15:38

Again, I guess I guess the issue

15:41

is During

15:43

the course of the day and

15:45

being an elected official and are

15:47

you using the public office for

15:49

personal gain? And is that

15:51

a bad look and I don't know I

15:53

still don't know what the law is because

15:56

it's kind of ambiguous when I Looked

15:59

for it And

16:01

I'm not making excuses for Becky or for anyone.

16:03

I just don't know. Yeah, it wasn't your job

16:05

to check that out. I get it. Let's

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it now. And one of the things in

18:21

this ethics complaint that was alleged

18:24

was that Becky Hill promoted her

18:26

book during book tours given at

18:28

the Collison County Courthouse. Did

18:30

you attend any of these tours

18:32

and if so, did you witness her promoting her

18:35

book? Well, first off, when

18:37

I was there for the trial, I didn't

18:39

really know her. Anyhow, I stopped back by

18:41

the courthouse for whatever reason if we were

18:43

driving through and I did go for a

18:45

tour. I think a lady, a deputy named

18:47

Tracy, super sweet, she

18:49

gave me a tour and Becky wasn't

18:52

with us during that tour. I

18:56

never saw Becky give a tour the

18:58

small fraction of times I was there

19:01

after the trial. From

19:05

my understanding, it was the

19:08

deputies or bailiffs

19:10

who gave the tours because I even

19:12

asked her about that and she

19:14

said, no, I don't do the tours.

19:17

They do the tours. I

19:19

mean, I don't believe she was

19:22

promoting the book. We never saw

19:24

books out. But we weren't there. When

19:28

she did the interview with us, it was actually

19:30

during her lunch hour, I believe, and she was

19:33

not even at her office. She

19:35

was recording from Twigs,

19:38

a little gift shop in Walterburg. Another

19:42

thing that has been alleged about her

19:44

is about these sealed documents that

19:47

she allowed media to see. Were

19:49

you all allowed to see any of these sealed

19:53

documents? I mean, we

19:55

weren't a part of being there when the media

19:57

was meeting in the evenings or anything like that.

20:00

How we wouldn't know. That would

20:02

have an answer the fact I think

20:04

some of those are some some ordering.

20:06

But then I believe that span alleged

20:08

that she provided Netflix West. Ah

20:11

file have some sealed

20:13

documents after. With. Your

20:16

so you'd ever saw it. He sealed

20:18

documents. Any point to the see. Yeah

20:20

we weren't tired of the media and

20:22

off meter reader do. We.

20:24

Want present for any that and

20:27

and I believe there was a

20:29

yam. You. Know

20:31

whenever we lead I get.

20:34

From. Factors or whatever we

20:36

all we're doing now than. Revisions

20:39

and stuff like that. I

20:42

say anything that was ever played in

20:44

any out or anything. Like. That was

20:46

asked of was. Able to be. Seen.

20:48

As court documents public record sorts

20:51

get to the photo. That.

20:54

Was used I I guess in a way

20:56

to for help promote the book is the

20:58

photo of El Mirage in the holding cell

21:00

is on a car is read the books

21:03

and will be talk to regionally your like

21:05

without revealing. Or source who took

21:07

the photo Now Becky says it was Gary

21:09

Hail Jr who has since been fired but

21:12

was it Jerry Hail that sense you that

21:14

photo can you or or was it her

21:16

daughter are was ye who who was it

21:18

would be? Are you lot to say now.

21:21

How. You got that photo? Yeah

21:23

and says a reason that did

21:25

not reveal that we're on a

21:27

cast for obvious reasons. I just

21:29

feel like when things are under

21:31

investigation and I haven't really been

21:33

questioned about that said I was

21:35

just sitting on a massive learning

21:38

on a cell line. You already

21:40

have worked hard enough on this

21:42

case and that doing I would

21:44

be responsible and to be honest

21:46

with you I was not present.

21:48

When that photo was taken

21:51

I know that that he

21:53

has shared with us that

21:55

many people that are now

21:57

period mentioned and other people.

22:00

That were allowed in the

22:02

courthouse. You have their earphones

22:04

and I'm. I

22:06

just know that I didn't take it through,

22:08

emailed it to you that he texted it.

22:10

Affects. He texted a to yes. Yes,

22:13

Yes, but I'm still. even

22:15

then. You. Know for

22:17

me to go on and just same

22:20

source of his ticket when i was

22:22

pregnant i wasn't present for hates us

22:24

the size of and. Set so

22:26

I just didn't wanna sorority of

22:28

an hour while I'm authorities were

22:31

trying investigated sort. Of don't want

22:33

to speak thing. Do. You

22:35

believe her story that this came

22:37

from a public camera already think

22:40

this came from the screen and

22:42

her office. When out

22:44

in her office after the trial just

22:46

when I stopped by to say aloud

22:49

couple times I've visited there are office

22:51

with purple. When you guys

22:53

were there. And. I never went

22:55

sour off as your endeavors and or office. Or

22:58

you move C C

23:01

allowed uses drugs Original

23:03

office. For. Another purpose

23:05

during the trial. And

23:07

switch back to another. So.

23:11

There were two offices but she had

23:13

yeah so I can say. I mean

23:15

it's obvious it's from a monster somewhere.

23:19

I know there were some. There's

23:21

like a panel of monitors. Are

23:23

slot. Can I know? There's a panel

23:26

of a monitors for in the streets.

23:28

an eerie i think you'd ever break

23:30

room on. And as far as well,

23:32

her office once during the trial versus

23:34

what? her office once when I was

23:37

there, when. I was in a six

23:39

couple as as yet sister that either.

23:41

I mean clearly it's from as a

23:43

monitor the of so. I don't know

23:46

how irrelevant it is an era when Legion

23:48

Arts or to. When try

23:50

to see service around, there was

23:52

actually a room. Next door to

23:54

where the holding cells or and debate

23:57

but also have monitors the my to

23:59

refinery. I think that for a bailiff who

24:01

would sit down there maybe to guard. So

24:04

I don't know. I

24:06

did want to mention to you that

24:08

besides being interviewed by SLED, we

24:10

were interviewed by a pair

24:13

of ethics commission investigators who

24:15

were very interested in the

24:18

photo situation. And

24:20

what they said to us was in

24:23

looking over some text messages because Becky

24:25

had sent the photo was because

24:28

she did not have intent

24:31

for us to use it

24:33

for personal gain, that

24:35

they're not looking into that for her.

24:41

I made the decision to put

24:43

it on social media myself because

24:45

I thought it was wow. How

24:48

poetic that he's awaiting his fate and

24:50

he's reading a

24:52

murder novel while

24:55

reclining. And I just thought wow,

24:57

that was not really thinking, not

24:59

thinking where it came from, not

25:01

thinking how the photo was taken. Luckily,

25:03

I'm a private citizen and I won't

25:05

get in trouble for that. But in

25:08

fairness to Becky, that is a situation

25:10

I know that they told us because

25:12

the intent was not for her to

25:14

have this placed in the book, which

25:16

had never made it in the book,

25:19

or to have personal gain. She was

25:21

just sending it to us like, wow,

25:24

isn't this interesting? That kind of...

25:26

Yeah, she sent it. I don't think we were in

25:28

the same place that day. I think I was at the office and you

25:30

were home. So she sent it to me and my

25:33

only response was, oh Jesus, you know,

25:35

that's what you're talking to me. And

25:38

then she called to Neil and of

25:40

course, Neil the reporter says, asking questions.

25:43

So then when Neil talked about

25:45

posting it in the group because

25:47

it was interesting, you know,

25:50

I said, I don't know, you better get permission. So

25:52

we have a good plan. I was like, you better

25:55

check that out. I said, because Neil didn't belong to

25:57

a lot of the Murdoch groups. I did. And

26:00

he was supposed to, and I'm like,

26:02

you better make sure. So he text

26:04

with a friend of ours who's an

26:06

attorney about Alex's privacy and stuff

26:08

like that. And the guy was like, he doesn't

26:11

have any right privacy. So

26:13

Neil said, it's fine to

26:16

post it. And then he posted

26:18

it under my name. Why

26:21

did y'all decide not to use it in the book? So

26:24

we had gotten some flack online

26:28

from different people about where did this

26:30

photo come from? Who took it? Was

26:34

it security monitors or

26:36

what have you? And we just thought it

26:39

just would have been inappropriate to

26:41

post it in the book. So we took

26:43

it down even off social media as well.

26:46

So I think you mentioned that

26:48

you had some thoughts on Becky

26:50

Hill's resignation. Yeah,

26:53

I did. I

26:56

thought that what Justice

26:58

Cole said on January 29th at

27:03

the evidentiary hearing rang

27:05

true on that podcast.

27:09

And I actually just finished writing

27:11

in the epilogue

27:14

very last part of the book, the

27:16

last paragraph, my thoughts on it. And

27:18

if I may, it's trialwatchers.com

27:21

to learn how to get the book. But ostensibly,

27:26

I think she did hear the

27:28

siren call of celebrity. And

27:31

I don't think that

27:33

was a very good look for

27:35

her at the end as she

27:37

resigned doing a big press conference.

27:40

We're used to presidents, governors and

27:42

mayors doing that maybe

27:44

when they resign amid some controversy.

27:47

And usually it's met with some

27:50

humbleness and a way

27:53

that they present it where they would leave

27:56

with a certain look. And

27:59

I just don't know. think it was a good look.

28:01

I don't know how you guys feel about

28:03

it. Yeah. It was very strange. I thought

28:05

it was very odd. It wasn't anything that

28:07

I had seen. I think a press release

28:10

would have been fine. Didn't have to

28:12

have cameras. Considering all that

28:14

she's going through, it didn't even

28:17

though, you know, again, not charged, not even

28:19

an ethics violation,

28:21

just accusations, I think it would

28:23

have been better to fly under the radar. Well,

28:25

and if she's really stepping

28:27

down to spend more time with her grandchildren,

28:30

as she said, why does that require

28:32

a press conference? Well, then again, she

28:34

could have people in her ear who

28:36

like to be on TV. Could be. Because there

28:39

were other people at the conference who spoke and

28:41

that those particular people, like Justin Bamberg or

28:43

somebody, it might have said to her, hey,

28:45

let's do this. I can get on TV.

28:47

Or maybe they just thought it was the best way to

28:51

put out any rumors. Although

28:54

people are still talking about, is that really

28:56

why she stepped down? You

28:58

mentioned you have a new

29:00

project called trialwatchers.com. Tell us

29:02

what this is all about.

29:06

Neil approached me last

29:08

year after the Murdoch trial had ended to

29:11

tell me about this book that he was

29:13

publishing with Becky Hill and that Melissa had

29:15

just gotten back from Colleton County with all

29:17

this great content. And

29:19

he suggested that we produce a

29:22

documentary again

29:24

about the Murdoch trial. And I told him, this

29:26

has been done before. There are plenty of

29:28

these out there already. But

29:31

based on what you're telling me about

29:33

all these great characters that Melissa came

29:35

across, I think the real

29:37

story here is about the trial watchers,

29:39

the people who put their

29:41

lives on hold, who traveled hundreds, sometimes thousands

29:44

of miles to wait in line for four

29:46

or five, six hours to get in and

29:49

sit on one of those hard pews to watch

29:51

the court case unfold in front of them. And

29:54

after we started going through all of

29:56

this great stuff that Melissa had found,

30:00

on that and decided to call this trial

30:04

a book that's an anthology of

30:07

short stories about a lot of the folks that

30:09

do this, about the psychology behind

30:12

it. We do a chapter

30:14

on journalism ethics and reporting. I have a

30:16

20-plus year career in TV news where I

30:18

covered a lot of these trials and encountered

30:20

a lot of these interesting characters myself. And

30:22

so we're going to be launching that in

30:25

May. That's part of

30:27

docuseries you're doing, right? Is it

30:29

going to be at CrimeCon in

30:31

Nashville? Are you ready for that?

30:34

Yeah, we're going to be at CrimeCon in Nashville with

30:36

the book published and ready to go. And

30:39

I'm meeting folks and Neil will talk

30:41

to anybody who wants to talk to him

30:44

about the Murdock trial and behind the doors

30:46

of justice. But we'll be there really to

30:48

talk about the trial watchers and really to

30:50

meet the trial watchers themselves who will be

30:52

at CrimeCon, sort of turn the mirror back

30:55

on them. I mean, trial watchers watching trial

30:57

watchers. So trial watchers squared. I've just

30:59

started. Absolutely. But I didn't really realize

31:01

this was a thing until we started

31:03

the Murdock. And I just started digging

31:05

into this Karen Reid stuff. And it

31:07

seems like it may be even more

31:09

adversarial than the Murdock. Sorry, are

31:11

you going to dig into the Facebook

31:15

groups and the battles

31:17

that sometimes happen on

31:20

those? Is that part of what you're

31:22

digging into? Yeah,

31:24

I'll let Neil handle this one.

31:26

There's a whole chapter on the

31:28

internet trolls and mudslinging that takes

31:31

place even amongst the

31:33

trial watchers. We met a

31:35

lady, Matt Seton named

31:37

Amanda Moore, who lives in

31:39

Texas. And she shared with

31:41

us that she's overcome

31:44

addiction over the years and she's

31:46

turned her life around. And she

31:48

is, for lack of better

31:51

words, sort of Addicted

31:53

to trial watching, if you will.

31:55

She's put her energies into that. But

31:57

In trying to help people... He

32:01

says hurt people tend to hurt

32:03

people and so she's look into

32:05

trying to be. She's been an

32:07

administrator some of these Facebook groups

32:09

and she really tries to be

32:11

the peacemaker because there was so

32:13

much vitriol and there still is

32:15

in a way because people are

32:17

so passionate about whether outfit it

32:19

or he didn't how could he

32:21

murderous son and his way and

32:23

was or somebody else from where

32:25

the one shooter, two shooters and

32:27

everybody has a different theory? And

32:30

so. We. Talked with her,

32:34

As my mentioned on might actually talked

32:36

with the lady i think as a

32:38

doctor Pam Rutledge. Yeah. He's

32:40

a media psychologist who has written extensively

32:43

about why people are obsessed with the

32:45

true crime genre. While.

32:47

We dealt with some of the vitriol. Bad

32:51

as it, I misunderstand retail services letting

32:53

this morning and people are really going

32:55

out each other. We never fed into

32:57

it as much. We never talked about it

33:00

on the podcast or never engaged very much.

33:02

So that will be interesting. but I I

33:04

I do can we have heard little time

33:06

left? And what people to

33:08

check that out? The. Trial watcher.com link

33:10

and all the information on our

33:12

Facebook page impact of Influence but

33:15

when and where to touch him

33:17

for he left his. Any. Thoughts

33:19

that you have. About.

33:21

The. Issue with

33:24

of the ethics complaint filed

33:26

against Laurie Murray? You have

33:28

any regrets about that. Are.

33:30

You still strongly opposed to what

33:32

she did and co what? what

33:35

are your thoughts? So

33:38

we we actually Melissa and I

33:40

actually met her at the same

33:42

hearing you were at in Colombia

33:45

their on January twenty ninth and

33:47

we actually had a very civil

33:49

conversation. And just before finalizing the

33:52

book I made a phone call

33:54

to the bar associations and they

33:56

told me that in many places

33:59

they don't. And

34:01

look in the things. They just set

34:03

it aside or they don't open a

34:05

case. But they started this situation that

34:07

they are are investigating good the case.

34:10

I don't want anything bad to happen

34:12

to her. I don't want her to

34:14

lose reliably as I don't think they'll

34:16

be the case. I don't want her

34:18

to. Suffer and that

34:20

way we just wanted or to know

34:23

that and maybe it has to do

34:25

with the new form of social media

34:27

to talk with you just down there

34:29

and planet just. Throw

34:32

up he just talks and my

34:34

and I have come from decades

34:36

of journalism experience where you check

34:38

in the same should see all

34:40

layers of the onion and I

34:42

think of i could. Allow

34:44

Melissa to share which she

34:47

said the lorry in Colombia.

34:50

Yeah and I spoke

34:52

with her. Briefly and said you

34:55

know we are so rich, simple and

34:57

I just wish only with chat and

34:59

she for wow that's. Just trying to

35:01

read what with the last time as

35:03

it could find and. And I said

35:05

well as was taken by lot of

35:07

people and you know if really with

35:10

her. folks email and in I knew

35:12

about or business owners and or to.

35:15

Additive Reputation and I just I was

35:17

getting message after message after message from

35:19

clients white Knight about this and it

35:22

was just going crazy and I thought

35:24

this, it's just this information is true

35:26

and it blew my mind because she's

35:29

a defense Attorney. Of all the people

35:31

in the world. While would

35:33

you go and put that

35:35

out there and insinuate something

35:38

that. May or may

35:40

not be true like that with

35:42

so many an opposite. Of what a

35:44

defense attorney would. Do. It

35:46

blew my mind as. Things you my shoes and

35:49

reading on my plane. That are we can

35:51

be friends and the finality of. Our

35:55

say no to to in her mind I think

35:57

she was his reading that nothing non the complaints

35:59

he was. saying that these things were

36:01

necessarily true, she was just reading from the complaint.

36:04

If you listen back to it, the alleged

36:06

occurred like a minute or two before. The

36:09

alleged occurred way before she brought me up.

36:11

She really just said, Melissa Gordon was in

36:13

the courtroom for 30 days,

36:15

every day getting favorite, you know, to

36:17

take pictures. It just

36:20

wasn't a journalist would have been

36:22

taken more care with that information,

36:24

made phone calls or just taken more care.

36:26

Quick question because we're almost going to be

36:28

ending. The oath of civility, I'm assuming someone

36:30

told you about that. Late

36:33

people don't know about the oath of civility. Some attorneys don't even

36:35

know about it. So I assume someone

36:37

told you about that. So in

36:39

order to have a

36:41

reason, have a complaint. Yes. And

36:43

then I looked into it some and then

36:46

when I made the call to the South

36:48

Carolina Bar, I said there's some confusion about

36:50

whether it's how you conduct yourself

36:52

outside or inside the courtroom. All

36:55

they would say to me is

36:57

that we have

36:59

chosen to investigate this. And

37:03

yes, it comes from this

37:05

particular passage and statute within the law.

37:07

And that's all they said to me.

37:11

The rumor is Justin Bamberg is the one who told

37:13

you about the other civility encouraging you to make

37:15

the complaint. Is that true? Not

37:17

true. Okay, fair enough. They're right up

37:19

easy. And

37:22

you can catch out

37:24

trialwatcher.com and the book

37:27

and the docuseries will be coming out soon.

37:29

Thank you guys. Thank you guys.

37:32

All right. Thank you guys. And then Seaton, we

37:34

want to touch on an episode that we did,

37:36

I think three episodes ago about Katie

37:39

Major. Yes, I've been in

37:41

contact with her mother, Vicki. We've spoken

37:43

several times since then and she's working

37:46

on getting us some information. There really

37:48

remains a lot of questions about this

37:50

case that we are digging into. And

37:54

I really hope that we can

37:56

help get answers for the family. Very good. We

37:59

hope that you'll share this. The episode rate the

38:01

episode make a comment. Join.

38:03

Us on. Facebook. Impact

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Of influence. This. Particular Wire.

38:08

This particular episode will not be on

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the You Tube channel, but hopefully ago

38:12

check out the youtube channel and subscribe

38:14

because getting that rolling as well part

38:16

the Evergreen. Podcast. Network

38:18

and a game. Always. Always

38:20

grateful. That. You spend time

38:23

with us, it's much appreciated. The.

38:25

Will talk soon friend. Me:

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introduce you to bury clothes and

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authorized financial advisor from New Zealand

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from are no. He died a

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lazing. There were all taken. Care of

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a psychopath is somebody who lacks empathy.

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