0:00

you know, i wrote a book on and

0:02

honestly i would rather be eating tacos

0:04

and sitting there and calculating

0:06

my spending every month since i'm pretty

0:08

close to do that and yet, so

0:11

many of us are stuck in a spreadsheet

0:13

or we worry that

0:15

we didn't save enough if you're

0:17

doing that, you are not living your rich

0:19

life every single month, my

0:21

money, automatically flows, exactly where

0:23

it needs to go savings-investment guilt-free

0:26

spending

0:27

i want to show you how to get exactly the same

0:29

thing if you want to learn how to build

0:31

your rich life with a system

0:33

that said it and forget it then

0:35

i got a three quick start guide for

0:37

you i'm gonna show you how to automate your

0:39

money see to spend less than one

0:42

hour per month i get you do

0:48

you right

0:55

he felt like i don't trust him to do that

0:57

and i would even after saying thing seemed

0:59

like it was a problem and then it blew

1:01

up into like this huge thing

1:03

did

1:05

you trust him

1:07

not really but i wouldn't trust myself

1:09

either

1:10

tell what do you hear when

1:12

she says that

1:15

or you're an attack like i'm you

1:18

, an egg

1:21

this heard that it

1:23

is paid next thrust upon me when

1:25

it comes to take finance decisions

1:27

we get take think now when

1:30

we get coffee a growing fast release

1:32

waiver very nervous

1:35

and anxious when it comes to

1:39

having to making large

1:41

and decision

1:41

that leads us into the exact cycle

1:44

that were and already are not equipped to make the decision

1:46

so we refer back to my mom and then she makes

1:48

the decision for us

1:49

did you have you ever told your mom know

1:53

i've tried and

1:55

, doesn't work out very well i'm

1:58

trying to have better boundaries

2:05

the i'm speaking with cow and

2:07

katie they're in their mid twenties

2:09

and a make over a hundred thousand dollars

2:11

a year after a few years

2:14

of moving around the now live

2:16

in alaska their

2:18

situation as many started

2:22

with a target right

2:24

they wrote me

2:25

because they had a big fight

2:27

over a trip to target

2:30

that as i speak to them i learned

2:32

there's a lack of trust

2:34

that katie is the one who manages

2:37

money on a day to day basis

2:39

and how ignores until

2:42

recently he has traveled for

2:44

several weeks and months

2:46

and he comes back

2:47

andover his paycheck and a little

2:50

time with the family and then goes back to work

2:53

you can imagine this doesn't

2:55

produce a really healthy way

2:57

of dealing with money

2:59

then it gets even more complicated

3:02

katie feels alone she

3:04

wishes she had some support

3:07

and so she turns to her mom, her

3:10

mom gives

3:12

shall we say not

3:14

very good, financial advice and

3:16

in fact saddled them

3:18

with tens of thousands of dollars

3:21

of debt

3:22

the conversation was very challenging

3:25

times i had to ask them to

3:27

focus on my question

3:30

then other times

3:32

the seem to be spinning over the

3:34

same stories unsure

3:36

of how to get out of

3:39

that's what i'm here for

3:41

so as you listen today we stick

3:43

with it i think there's some really valuable

3:46

insights that hopefully you

3:48

will here cal and key

3:52

how and katie don't know

3:54

how to talk to each other about money

3:58

if you are in that situation if

4:00

you had struggled to know how get on the same

4:02

page with your partner about money

4:05

i put together the conversation

4:07

starters for you some word for

4:09

word scripts that you can use

4:12

to have a really positive conversation

4:14

about money you can get those by going

4:16

to i w t dot com slash

4:19

episode fifty one that's i

4:21

w t dot com slash episode

4:23

five one

4:25

the

4:26

let's get into hall and katie story

4:28

and remember to stay until the end

4:31

the here they're follow up from

4:33

this conversation i'm

4:36

really city and this is i will teach

4:38

you to be rich

4:42

haiti

4:43

i understand it recently cow came

4:45

home from work and he wanted

4:47

to go to target can you tell me what happened

4:50

i ways

4:53

during my hair in the bathroom

4:55

which is at the opposite end from where he

4:57

was this in the living room and he

4:59

was at the kids the and

5:01

he had come home he had like a list

5:03

of things that he had kept track

5:05

of when he was away for he wanted to pick

5:07

up at target the i'm

5:10

hi i'm phil i got really

5:12

anxious and asked if he could go

5:15

and do the

5:17

lights out where you can dress shop

5:19

from your phone for everything in your car

5:21

and then just check out and drive there and pick

5:23

it up

5:24

the

5:26

because i feel like whenever

5:28

one of us goes to the store we end up

5:30

picking up way more than

5:32

what was on our land especially

5:34

if the kids are involved and so he

5:37

was going to bring the kids for me i think i

5:39

had plans that day and so he

5:41

was going to bring the kids and i just it sounded

5:43

like a recipe for disaster and

5:46

i was like can you do that but then she's on upset

5:48

because he wanted to go in person and

5:50

actually pick out his i'd and he

5:52

felt like i didn't trust him to do that and be

5:55

concise and that i would even have to say anything

5:57

seemed like it with a problem and

5:59

then the up into like this huge thing

6:02

c did you

6:04

trust him

6:06

not really but not because like it's

6:08

only ham it's like i wouldn't trust

6:10

myself either like i primarily

6:12

use the up because

6:14

it's a way of having self control which

6:17

i feel like it's something that we both have a really

6:19

hard time with and so

6:21

i feel like if he told me that i wouldn't

6:23

get upset because unlike yeah you're

6:26

right i would probably make an impulsive decision and

6:28

buy something we don't really need ah

6:32

but i felt like he wasn't being like understanding

6:34

of my perspective in that situation that's

6:38

what i guess i also feel really guilty because

6:40

he had just gotten home and he's are things that

6:42

you like wanted to get though

6:44

it's just like the a hard scenario

6:47

their okay so cal

6:50

paint a picture from your perspective you came home

6:52

after being away for two weeks

6:55

and was this the next day that you

6:57

wanted but i target

6:59

i can't recall for was necessarily

7:01

the

7:02

the thing

7:03

read next year the same day

7:06

regardless circumstances be i've just

7:08

way for two weeks i don't necessarily

7:10

want to the

7:12

home or viewed shop online ever

7:15

have been a big proponent of order

7:18

online go pick up katie definitely

7:20

is more so into that but

7:22

i don't like it that we can

7:24

be convenient the

7:26

way out it's a nice day and want to go with the

7:29

kids get our

7:31

the house take them have fun they did their say

7:33

to see me not want go and

7:36

the com person what did he leave your what

7:38

do you remember when you brought

7:40

it up how did you bring it

7:45

ah be you

7:46

the little brash my do agree i'd

7:48

imagine most

7:51

likely to be something online says they

7:54

were going i target and make it turned around

7:56

and we're going to get x y z

7:58

the doing

7:59

evolved into war you're

8:02

probably going to get a b c as well as well

8:05

no i said i'm gonna get x y z will

8:07

it what what items are we talking about your what is x

8:09

y z the yet on your list you

8:12

know that's it it's already been i

8:14

remember today i can remember

8:17

he wanted a which is very reasonable

8:19

like excise history as well actually the his

8:22

new body wash a t shirt and

8:24

i think about like something very reason

8:26

okay and

8:28

hey what were you

8:30

fried that he was also gonna get

8:34

anything would be fake stuff for the kids

8:36

toys that they saw wait

8:38

we did everything i can think now snacks

8:41

that we don't need

8:43

can next

8:44

junk food a coin

8:47

and stuff like that like i don't even know

8:49

why did i kill kg with your food just

8:51

tell me i want to know the details

8:53

well i'm trying to think because or

8:55

the four sons

8:56

very good negotiator leave i'll

8:59

convince us to get literally

9:01

everything under the movies your son does our your

9:03

only

9:05

whoa

9:07

the big clue right there

9:10

the four year old

9:11

seems to run things around the house

9:14

which causes them to fight

9:16

about target and probably

9:18

many other things i

9:21

need a lot of couples like this he would probably

9:23

spend their entire lives fighting

9:25

about target this

9:27

is a symptom the root cause

9:29

is so much deeper and i'm already

9:31

starting to guess it is a

9:34

lack of boundaries let's

9:36

see how else this

9:38

manifests itself with kill and

9:40

gate so

9:43

you have a problem saying no the

9:46

your children eating it's a problem

9:52

the katie thing yes with her head count

9:54

using it's a problem it can

9:56

be

9:57

okay let's say yes or no question yes

9:59

right

10:01

fine so

10:03

you are concerned that he was going to buy a bunch of

10:05

candy and toys and stuff for the kids

10:07

hi def result

10:09

on heard like i said

10:11

yeah

10:12

hey i'm gonna only good what i need

10:14

on didn't say i was gonna

10:16

origin

10:17

the the kids whatever

10:19

they wanted

10:21

the

10:22

that have we made me all upset

10:25

i think the problem with the same

10:27

to is that it got really heated really

10:30

quickly but i felt like it

10:32

wasn't mean as a fairly like

10:34

giving out the rules of as more of like

10:37

be mindful of there's i feel like i'm

10:39

just trying to a late the

10:41

i know the i need that reminder sometimes

10:43

i feel like i was trying to be like reminding

10:45

but he took it as more of authoritative

10:48

i guess

10:50

and if you were pouring a glass of water

10:53

haiti

10:54

every morning and every morning coulson

10:56

see careful you might

10:58

splash that water on the floor how would you

11:00

feel after the first day the first month

11:02

first year of hearing share

11:05

that

11:06

what

11:09

what's the real issue here i don't really

11:11

think it's target i don't think it's the jelly

11:13

beans that you're gonna buy for your son

11:17

the give me neither example some more

11:19

it an example is like i

11:22

will be checking the be the counter my checking

11:24

the budgets and stuff and will make a comment like

11:26

while we say even month's budget

11:30

to meet think it's only been banned halfway through the

11:32

mud and he'll just get frustrated

11:34

that i brought it on

11:36

why do we do the s advice

11:39

not help form and he gets like upset that

11:42

i brought up

11:43

and he feels like i'm

11:45

blaming him by just mentioning

11:48

it it's saying like it's his

11:50

all tell what do you hear

11:52

when she says that

11:56

the you're an attack by game

11:58

you the

12:00

in

12:01

they

12:04

thirty that it is bay like upon

12:06

being a beard as figured out

12:08

the

12:10

there's all the way of that problem

12:13

the what is i feel like you

12:16

immense pressure it

12:20

the was frustrating

12:22

the

12:25

try to find the words

12:29

it's is hard you know i'd be too much standard

12:31

all at once like i just got home i wanted the

12:35

compress i want to spend out and wife

12:37

spent hours the kids without fearing

12:40

that the burdens of why

12:43

not nursery to shove it into a topic

12:45

about which is the have a moment

12:47

of rest cyclists got off working you

12:49

know every day twelve hours

12:51

a day the two weeks ago

12:54

wanted wanted of restless but

12:57

now i some with my kids

13:00

this example actually said

13:02

a lot of like on what is

13:04

probably going on with cow

13:07

and key as it relates to their money

13:09

how

13:11

holy disconnected

13:13

from money in fact he physically

13:15

leave to go to work for several weeks

13:17

or months come back they

13:20

didn't wanna talk about anything just

13:22

wants to spend time with his family haiti

13:25

is managing things on a day to

13:27

day basis highly

13:30

involved

13:31

checking apps all the time

13:34

emotionally invested

13:36

the point of feeling anxious feeling alone

13:39

cow is not engaging with the money and

13:42

so he starts to try

13:44

to control things as soon as she

13:46

season

13:47

keeping what about this what about that don't go to target

13:49

you going to spend too much or four year olds is

13:51

gonna make you buy toys and i don't trust

13:54

you to say no

13:56

frustrating to listen to

13:58

i feel a lot of

13:59

the passion for the to of

14:02

there are a lot of couples where one person

14:05

the one in charge

14:07

of money often times they

14:09

find themselves chasing the other

14:12

person just wishing the

14:14

would actually hear about money

14:16

on they don't

14:18

usually come out and say that they don't usually

14:21

come out and say i feel alone

14:23

i need a partner in this the

14:25

will usually say things like why

14:28

do you spend so much money on that how could

14:30

you do that we're running out of money you

14:33

can understand that they're frustrated they're anxious

14:36

they're nervous it's hard

14:38

to know how to have these types of conversations

14:41

though

14:42

let's give him a little bit grace

14:44

this is why by the way i created that

14:46

conversation guy i w t dot

14:48

com slash episode fifty one

14:50

there are very specific word for word

14:52

scripts you can use with your partner

14:55

to change the way that the two

14:57

of you talk about money instead

14:59

of

15:00

the packing

15:01

or running away

15:03

you can have these constructive conversations as start

15:06

to shift the way that you both feel

15:08

and act around money so check those

15:10

scripts out i w t dot com slash

15:12

episode fifty one

15:15

the you got married at twenty

15:17

and

15:19

you mention that the to view incurred

15:21

a lot of

15:22

walk me through that

15:24

the first thing that happened was right before

15:26

we got married cowl and i

15:28

by a decade leaving

15:30

for his parents had saved for him like his whole

15:32

life and by a car with it instead

15:35

of advancing instead of saving

15:37

up for house the and then

15:40

when we got you know almost a

15:42

out eight thousand ten thousand dollars from our

15:44

wedding the couple months later

15:46

and we spent all of that we

15:48

anything to say that we the thing to do anything like

15:50

that ah would you spend around i

15:53

don't even remember like that's the problem even

15:55

so today like we the just

15:57

cause it's eating out

15:59

the painting

16:01

the following

16:02

the bought the car

16:04

it took the eight to ten thousand from your wedding and

16:06

and a spent it wouldn't happen

16:09

i mean a minneapolis

16:12

i'm we got a credit card and

16:15

foreigners the place at that the

16:17

name

16:20

i still had my car

16:22

that my parent i'm paid off

16:24

and given to me from

16:26

high school and got talked into

16:29

trading it and to get a lead the

16:31

newer car

16:33

your buddy chat at the pretty

16:35

more lot told you only use in a

16:37

salesman comes right now they're all birds

16:39

are older scientists in their ill fitting suit would

16:41

how you ah this is folks

16:43

people the how do you want to pay what had

16:45

a payments you look at forty two ninety nine oh

16:48

two seventy nine we could make that work for you

16:50

don't you worry about

16:52

no and i was like it with only one hundred

16:54

meter five dollars that that's because we're releasing

16:56

it i know disappointed the you

16:58

know financing and we didn't really understand

17:00

that and we

17:03

were like sure yeah hundred eighty five that's

17:05

really cheap and so we traded in my car

17:07

that was paid for ah

17:09

i'm yeah that was that card

17:12

year and year come defined come defined story that cars

17:14

and

17:14

there are down only our kryptonite it's

17:17

only really wow that was a surprise

17:19

surprise starts here it started the first

17:22

let's walk through their litany

17:24

of these automobile now

17:25

you're gonna be shocked at how many different automobiles

17:28

with on that are very short amount of time

17:30

together the over two thousand

17:32

and seven honda crv

17:34

that two thousand and sixteen honda

17:36

trump and i both wigan

17:39

to

17:39

that and thirteen dodge durango then we treated

17:41

that way she doesn't seventeen city

17:44

colorado and we sold the hiv

17:47

doesn't ten mazda

17:49

guys are enough enough i a d cor i

17:51

cannot spend the rest of my life talking about

17:54

the now i'm gonna create some rules for you i

17:56

don't know what your love of courses

17:59

the

17:59

q places that people in financial trouble

18:02

like you get in his

18:04

number one they spend too much on housing

18:06

and number two cars

18:08

and a to have you are really

18:11

really exemplify it with the cars

18:15

there's something very odd going on in this

18:17

conversation right when

18:20

i started asking them some basic

18:22

questions

18:24

the spent twenty five minutes

18:26

talking about course while

18:29

we're this car but then we least a car that

18:31

we bought this car that we moved here

18:32

that's why you finally heard me say it

18:35

the edit out all that course stuff

18:37

because it would have made his podcast

18:39

ten hours i

18:42

don't yet understand what

18:44

is going on here but there's something

18:46

very unusual about this

18:48

level of detail about spinning

18:51

over

18:52

every minute detail

18:54

and when i told them

18:56

the not

18:57

they both almost looked visibly

18:59

shocked i don't think they

19:02

realize

19:03

how easily they were going into

19:05

these irrelevant details

19:07

so i don't know what's going on here but i know there's

19:09

something going on

19:12

though

19:13

you buy a bunch of course you move

19:15

to minneapolis and you move back in seven

19:17

months which must have been very expensive in

19:19

terms of furniture

19:21

the being getting

19:23

rid of stuff

19:25

you finally and the back in alaska

19:29

this point how much debt yeah

19:32

we get back in alaska

19:35

i don't think

19:37

the growing up like to grand and credit card debt

19:40

at that point

19:40

hundred and sixty thousand dollars in

19:42

debt

19:43

though when we get back to last

19:45

we buy a condo

19:48

and why do you do that cause you

19:50

don't wanna throw money away on rent right pretty

19:52

much they have i gladly what are mindset

19:54

was who told you that i

19:56

like they're all that emanate other search

19:59

the numbers

20:01

well and in our area

20:04

everything here is really ugly and i feel

20:06

it helping i'm shallow

20:08

but i'm like i wanna live somewhere

20:11

night and i want to like six it up and make it

20:13

pretty and and all the places

20:15

for rent at the time were horrible and it was

20:17

the middle of winter and though

20:19

only got home and so we decided like let's

20:22

just i the pond

20:24

and so the find a kind

20:27

of that is fairly reasonable

20:28

had he knows reasonable how how did you

20:30

make a calculation

20:32

hum

20:34

they sound like what we could pay for rent

20:36

i think it was about like half by

20:39

grant would have been like fourteen

20:42

know hundred a month for a two bedroom

20:44

and a decent area and the condo was

20:46

like seven fifty before

20:49

views

20:50

wow and what about once you factor in

20:52

all the do's and interests

20:55

and taxi eat it up yeah

20:57

to be a and literally gets to

20:59

the same point where it's like about fourteen hundred

21:01

dollars a manager at early twenties and

21:03

stuff so the condo

21:06

where the bad twice because the h away

21:08

was defunct and so we ended up

21:10

being one of the only two the

21:13

unit paying the dealers and do

21:15

kept going up up up up and

21:17

they only took care of water america

21:20

to take care of grout grout me instead insurance

21:22

and they weren't taking care of that

21:24

okay when you realize that you

21:26

were in financial trouble

21:29

i didn't really realize and co

21:31

we had bought in the truck

21:33

and then realize it it's a forty

21:35

thousand dollar truck and six hundred dollar

21:38

a month car payment

21:39

the started

21:40

realize that

21:43

the becoming really i manage a ball and

21:45

that's when my mom got involved and basically

21:47

was like add up all your diet

21:50

what do that like sixty

21:53

thousand dollars with the truck and all the credit

21:55

card debt

21:56

what with that moment like when you sat

21:58

down and added up all your debts

21:59

the

22:02

it was really embarrassing mostly because

22:04

my mom is involved

22:05

there was before eating

22:09

you to look at each other say anything

22:15

i really don't remember him being

22:17

involved in that and all was more like my

22:19

mom and then she just kinda liked to boulder

22:22

help the red flags and had

22:25

to

22:25

the one was mom taking

22:28

over and

22:30

why is cow not involved at

22:32

all

22:33

who big red flags that

22:35

i suspect are gonna play a very large

22:37

role in the rest of our conversation

22:40

where were you

22:43

it was something

22:45

that is that it would be easier

22:48

the

22:48

he

22:50

does mama's gonna offered as

22:52

as as a as like a nice easy way

22:55

out of our situation and said about the worry

22:59

about hang your bank we just pay

23:01

your mom

23:02

katie tell me about the offer that your mom

23:05

oh yeah so to add it all up because

23:07

i inserted i'd never and talk to her about fi

23:09

or finances once we got married

23:12

and how we bought a condo and

23:16

i started to get really stressed out and

23:18

after the whole truck fiasco

23:21

a really really

23:23

stressed out and so finally reached out to her

23:26

back for her advice and she told

23:28

us to add it all up and we realized that was sixty

23:30

thousand dollars between all of the different

23:32

you know negative equity and all that crap

23:35

and ah

23:39

we see said i'll take

23:41

half of that

23:42

the

23:43

twenty five grand of that

23:46

and he writes can deal with the rest and

23:48

all you could pay me back on

23:51

i'll get a better interest rate and it'll be cheaper

23:54

for me to take it on for you

23:56

so what you do

23:59

oh because

24:00

the topic window

24:02

that

24:03

from limited

24:05

the use little equity

24:08

reading occurred the

24:10

condo to help pay down the

24:12

portion of our debt that her mom was not a

24:14

thing

24:15

okay

24:17

at this point do you decided declare bankruptcy

24:20

the on and all the pandemic and

24:22

then how lost his job and

24:24

we were totally screwed

24:28

this is a pattern that i frequently hear

24:30

from people who are not particularly

24:32

savvy with money that is

24:35

the make a lot of changes

24:37

all at once looki

24:39

county

24:40

house the har

24:43

job all of these things

24:46

at work

24:48

sometimes you can't help it if you get laid off

24:50

so like you can plan for that

24:53

that

24:54

in many cases when i talk to

24:56

people who are in financial trouble

24:58

they do not sit down and make

25:00

a plan for even one year they

25:03

often will simply focus

25:05

on the next month and they will buy whatever

25:07

is in front of them oh

25:10

ah we need a place to live we should

25:12

buy a house that would be

25:14

a not very savvy way to do it a much

25:16

savvy your way would be to sit down and say okay

25:19

we're probably gonna need to get a new house

25:22

when our lease expires in three months

25:25

what are our options the we think

25:27

that this housing is gonna be less than twenty percent

25:29

of gross the we think that

25:31

we're going to fit the twenty eight thirty six rule

25:33

do we have enough for emergency fund

25:36

what about moving expenses what

25:38

if one of us loses are job how will we

25:40

handle

25:42

the whole point of living a rich life

25:45

one characteristic that distinguishes

25:47

the very rich from almost everybody

25:50

else that they plan ahead

25:52

before they need

25:54

again something cannot be played for

25:56

i understand

25:58

that often if you're talking about how

25:59

and a whore in the same year

26:02

that is a massive increase

26:04

in expenses some so a massive

26:06

increase in complexity when

26:09

to be very careful about doing

26:11

all of that at once case

26:14

you declared bankruptcy this

26:16

charged how much of that debt

26:19

how quickly the all discharge but

26:22

i would not have

26:24

a relationship with my mom if we never paid

26:26

for back so we

26:29

thought oh her twenty four thousand the pretty

26:31

much all of that because it's interests

26:33

and stuff we were paying for paying while it was

26:35

just sitting because of that forgiveness during the pandemic

26:38

what is the alfred that your mom is charging

26:41

i think it's really low

26:44

three percent

26:47

that question

26:49

sure i'm honestly not

26:51

sure i've asked by i think it's a

26:53

variable interest rate not as fixed interest

26:55

rate and

26:55

would i don't know like what will you mean you've asked

26:58

you've asked her mom

26:59

and what did she tell you

27:02

i'm she answers sometimes

27:04

she doesn't see where he was as it is a communicate

27:07

with wait a minute what

27:10

a cleaner to me please

27:11

mcgrath this afternoon in preparation

27:14

for this and didn't get arrested yeah

27:17

the

27:18

what are we about to discover when it comes

27:20

to katie his mom and their finances

27:23

though

27:25

your mom katie your mom currently

27:27

holds

27:28

around twenty five thousand dollars of your debt

27:31

that was very nice of her to offer

27:33

the

27:35

take that on give you a lower

27:37

interest rate what are your

27:39

mom's involvement in your finances

27:43

they were involved i'm so

27:45

started with that person then

27:48

one we had to do bankruptcy

27:50

he didn't ask cast

27:52

and just bought a car for as

27:55

but with the intention of as paying her back

27:58

what

27:59

yeah that's

27:59

they will it was as if the guess you try

28:02

again scary i gotta get back yard

28:04

a gift so she'd just bought this

28:06

car and said here you go and then was

28:09

it free oh

28:11

you did there shaking their heads you had to pay

28:13

for a forty thousand dollar gift

28:15

there were some

28:16

there are plenty in a way it's

28:18

a

28:18

we paid it down to so like

28:20

the finale when you pay down hold on

28:23

how come how come it's always it's

28:25

how can we the details with you katie i'm

28:27

curious up that finding

28:29

a very difficult to get to the part of

28:31

the matter here

28:32

and as just do you find yourself

28:35

constantly spending

28:37

over details this

28:39

is really frustrating

28:41

the uk which is happened we learned

28:44

that kiddies mom gifted

28:46

them a car

28:48

and and told them

28:50

they were expected to pay for it

28:52

then i say to them wait a second you

28:54

to pay for a fourteen thousand

28:56

dollar gift the keys response

28:59

was i mean we've paid down

29:01

in part two

29:03

this is why i'm getting frustrated

29:06

haiti can't seem to give me a straight

29:08

answer

29:09

and if she can't give me a straight answer

29:11

i bet she's not honest with herself

29:14

about her financial choices either this

29:17

has been happening for our entire conversation

29:20

remember we spent over twenty five

29:22

minutes just going into the stream

29:25

details about every car

29:28

they buy

29:29

this put in a conversation we've been talking for two

29:31

hours

29:33

and i finally had to stop or to as

29:35

what we really going on here

29:37

number one cause we're going to spend the next twenty two

29:39

hours on his call the number

29:41

two i'm guessing there's something

29:43

really important here because

29:46

very few people

29:49

you what kiddies do

29:51

i ask a question they usually give me a pretty

29:53

straight answer tedious not and i want

29:55

to find out why

29:58

how come it's always the details with uk i'm

30:00

curious that finding

30:02

it very difficult to get to the part of

30:04

the matter here

30:05

and as just do you find yourself

30:08

constantly the spinning

30:10

over details

30:12

why that

30:14

no

30:15

the they give you comfort

30:17

maybe i think

30:18

how do you get a sense of control

30:21

yeah that that's true

30:24

i think you're gonna have to

30:26

gently

30:27

give up a little bit of control in

30:29

this conversation because i can't

30:32

push against you it's just

30:34

not working do you trust

30:36

that i'm gonna take us to a place that will help

30:38

the two of you

30:42

you can look for to fraud

30:45

the energy into a nervous

30:47

i understand you're nervous i get it it's

30:50

it's unusual situation

30:52

okay to i really need you to trust said i'm here

30:55

the help you

30:56

and a way that you can show that trust

30:58

the answer my questions and know

31:00

that we i want to get

31:02

to the root of what's going on and i can't

31:05

get there if we're getting distracted by all

31:07

these details

31:08

that are going to your head

31:12

put your hands in mind let's go there

31:14

together we'll all go there together

31:16

i find is pretty interesting i think

31:18

katie probably being honest i think her

31:21

way of answering questions does give

31:23

her a sense of control

31:25

i often find that people feel they need

31:27

to give me all the context

31:30

to their answers because they really

31:32

feel that i need to understand every little

31:34

detail

31:35

that's very com

31:36

i also suspect there's probably some

31:39

element of the way she was raised

31:41

maybe it was for belong to that

31:43

church and living with all the people

31:46

from the church babies the way she was raised

31:48

as a kid but you'll often

31:50

find in certain backgrounds that

31:52

people are expected

31:55

you paint a pretty picture on

31:57

everything that's really what

31:59

the did with that last question i said wait

32:02

a second your mom

32:03

making you pay fourteen thousand dollars

32:05

back and she found it

32:07

extremely difficult to simply

32:09

say yes because

32:12

that's obviously that

32:14

saw her natural response was

32:18

who

32:19

point out the silver lining well i mean we've paid

32:21

off some of it

32:22

whatever the reason

32:24

i hope that katie takes this

32:26

little dialogue we had and thinks about

32:29

because it's impossible to get ahead

32:31

if you are focused on spending over

32:33

tiny little details now

32:35

that we have established a little bit of trust

32:38

what don't understand more about what is going on

32:41

with her mom

32:42

third party proceeds

32:44

to be in the middle cowan

32:46

kiddies relationship

32:49

the anybody think that that's unusual for somebody

32:51

that essentially force

32:53

them to buy

32:54

car

32:57

it

32:57

he remitted to at you should

33:00

i know i kind of battle do at this how

33:03

do you feel about it and now i'm like well

33:06

because of the bankruptcy we don't have any other option

33:08

so it is what it is

33:10

i'm fortunate that would have been on highest civilian

33:12

answer is it how do you feel about

33:14

me saddling you with a car you didn't

33:17

even ask for what is your really answer to that

33:21

the embarrassed and childlike

33:24

like a child abuse

33:26

told my parents the real circumstance

33:28

of us

33:29

having a vehicle

33:30

somewhere summer of the stewart

33:33

situation it's like so embarrassing

33:35

the whole thing

33:38

look at that there's

33:40

so much to unpack your but i hope you notice

33:43

once i took away

33:45

there's details that they are both so comfortable

33:48

living in

33:49

we got right into visceral

33:52

emotional

33:53

that's real

33:54

they've been made to feel like children

33:57

embarrassed a shame

34:00

honestly

34:01

i think anyone would

34:03

based on the situation that there

34:05

keep going

34:07

not in his forefront of mind

34:10

because it's my family my mom

34:12

my dad and the when dealing with that like

34:15

it's on this side of the relationship

34:17

and

34:18

yeah he's a theory that involves

34:20

and yet i decide i reminded us in

34:22

a sense you know

34:25

my been really and i

34:27

haven't had a basic understanding

34:29

how much we over but in i don't

34:32

know

34:32

any of the numbers truly

34:36

what are the consequences if you're not going

34:38

not be on able

34:40

to

34:42

effectively

34:43

why an inquiry

34:45

dot that's my ways about

34:48

it

34:48

how does she feel right now

34:51

that abandons you don't own

34:54

and so where does she go to get

34:57

help from

34:59

he gets me she goes your mom goes your family

35:01

isis cycle just keeps on going

35:04

you walk me through these conversations you have with

35:06

your mom so at a certain point like

35:08

what is an example where you

35:10

the two of you could make a decision so katie

35:12

you went to my

35:15

in a weekend that i carved

35:17

we were how was driving back of artwork

35:19

from down the new about

35:22

down to share the computer up from the tow truck

35:24

the and

35:26

i couldn't like you hide or any

35:28

my got so she knows about the situation

35:31

and you know if we need to get other vehicles she's

35:33

providing you know her thoughts on what we should

35:35

do and then

35:36

and how did she say that you

35:38

i think you should do

35:40

this i think you should wait i don't

35:42

think you can

35:43

lord acts i think this

35:45

and and how do you react to that what words

35:47

to use

35:52

okay

35:53

yeah you you how old

35:55

are you again and

35:57

when you

35:59

hear her

36:00

getting into the you should do this you should do

36:03

that how would

36:05

you characterize the way you reactor

36:10

now because it i feel

36:12

so

36:15

same for like i can't make a good decision

36:17

i'm very submissive

36:19

the child

36:21

in relation to the as

36:22

we were having that conversation on the

36:24

way to hear because it's

36:26

not just my mom and my dad's

36:28

like my dad had seen here

36:31

i found this car you need said trade

36:33

your truck and given x

36:35

y the amount of money that we don't have

36:38

ensured and then you can have this truck as never

36:40

a conversation is always we're being told

36:43

like children

36:44

what we should do and

36:46

any and see

36:48

you with he said

36:49

i'm i'm really proud of tell because he

36:51

actually became involved

36:54

today this just this week with this particular

36:56

situation with the car

36:59

ah said no to buying a new car

37:01

at nineteen percent interest which was really

37:03

awesome no gain fucking

37:05

percent interest he was like

37:07

absolutely not

37:09

oh my god i cannot do another car story

37:13

however

37:14

i do love the example

37:16

that kalin katie just gave me cal

37:19

thing know we're not going to do that

37:22

hi i'm curious how her parents

37:25

even the had

37:26

the got or the space

37:29

the had this kind of influence

37:32

the only good tell involves here i really

37:34

want the understand

37:37

how see think things

37:39

ended up here because you didn't

37:41

see

37:43

yet

37:44

seems easier for him to blame

37:47

hades mom

37:49

the into really think about what led

37:52

to the situation with cow

37:54

and td together

37:57

having your finances run

37:59

hi katie

38:01

the

38:02

this is one of the decision betting if

38:04

not top was initially accepting

38:07

the help from his mom the

38:09

defense authorization right

38:12

good he told me that she had the realization

38:14

when she except that it that

38:16

there is no going back from

38:19

this bizarre like the measurement goes of

38:21

our finances with her i'd

38:24

say that would be the biggest

38:27

one

38:28

what about

38:30

you avoiding conversations about

38:32

money

38:33

yeah see

38:36

, like i should be number one at it i'd thought that

38:38

in yeah pyre

38:40

yeah i think so i mean like i

38:42

like it

38:44

the he didn't want

38:46

to be involved and his so hands off

38:48

the i feel like i need to take control and

38:50

then i don't feel eclipse i involved my family

38:55

that's pretty straightforward and doesn't work

38:58

now it doesn't work because

39:00

of the strings attached to it

39:03

and the obligation

39:04

like what

39:06

when how spoke of the moment when i realized

39:08

there was no going back

39:11

before then our money

39:13

selfless private and now

39:15

if i buy a new rug it's an issue

39:19

really iraq or good as out

39:21

the i've been hold explicitly you like

39:23

every extra

39:25

that you have need to go towards

39:28

the stat you cannot be buying new rugs

39:30

and so then i'd in own the

39:33

same goal and her in high

39:35

maintenance you to have

39:37

a ghost in your relationship

39:40

the to view

39:42

the who's the ghost

39:45

the know

39:46

it

39:48

that you invited the ghost in didn't

39:51

in fact you leave the door open

39:53

and every afternoon you say come on in

39:56

haunt us

39:59

good

39:59

the a welcome guests in your relationship

40:03

so

40:07

you grew up katie

40:09

never say no

40:11

having things taking care of it sounds

40:14

like for you

40:16

getting married twenty

40:19

the

40:20

if you look back at all those things how do you

40:22

think they all affected the way that you

40:24

treat money today

40:34

i never say no i've never heard

40:36

know no and like a foreign

40:38

concept to the i think

40:42

they're not when it comes to money it's hard

40:44

to say no and it's also are hard

40:47

say here know and

40:51

what what about you

40:53

when you think of money what

40:55

word comes to mind for you

40:58

the have a hard time rationalizing

41:02

after spending you know that's

41:04

a good purchase was the

41:07

not a good purchase in terms of i where we are at

41:09

your financial within our budget my

41:12

home life growing up not

41:16

the situation no one

41:19

ever thought that money

41:20

when he was not something that we ever really communicated

41:22

about know whenever i know i do you know my parents my

41:25

family's financial situation to

41:27

i was an adult you , don't

41:29

delve into my parents

41:32

you know

41:33

relationship i definitely it

41:35

was the very troublesome

41:36

planet growing up at a points

41:39

just from them fighting about at

41:41

the airlines setting

41:42

the over money really

41:45

they still together

41:47

the hadn't been for a

41:49

year now because prefer rep for we got married

41:52

that abruptly year before we got me

41:55

what do you member about those fights about money

42:00

not terribly a whole i only because

42:03

i remember i would just i say to myself

42:05

out of the situation or the

42:07

you know be my room by

42:10

you've been teenager where we do games but

42:13

your headset on don't tweeted

42:15

out with my

42:17

wife the or not really

42:21

anyway it was going on

42:23

was with them i knew he wasn't

42:25

okay no new everything if

42:29

ordering into what it would become me i could see

42:32

three years before it ever have them be divorce

42:34

if you look back

42:36

you hear your parents arguing over money

42:39

you go into your room turn on the video

42:41

games

42:42

how would you characterize your response

42:44

to your parents fighting over money

42:47

the it out

42:48

i don't out

42:51

the on

42:52

didn't the

42:54

care

42:55

that morning know

42:57

and if we can fast forward that

43:00

a decade later when

43:02

you have money problems at home

43:04

with your wife

43:05

how would you characterize

43:07

rona how

43:10

very somewhere read it out zone

43:13

it out don't care don't want

43:15

have

43:17

the part of

43:18

katie nodding or had a lot

43:20

i can digest dekalb grinning

43:23

ear to ear tell is it a realization for

43:25

you

43:27

the i guess it's

43:28

yes

43:31

it is now

43:33

this moment

43:34

making the connections between a big i've ever

43:36

really taken at the time

43:39

you don't stop and think about

43:41

that for the next on sense

43:43

yeah you think your kids haven't picked up on mommy

43:46

and daddy fighting over money

43:48

a senior phone definitely

43:50

the hina hours see nice the and

43:52

four years old almost five

43:57

hell think about what you did when your parents fought about

43:59

money

44:02

ignored it

44:04

then what did that little

44:06

boy do as he grew up and to get into

44:08

his relationship

44:11

ignores it

44:12

the same thing this is how we pass

44:14

these things are

44:21

that's a breakthrough zero one for cow

44:24

realizing the connection between

44:26

how he behaved as a young child

44:29

how is behaving now and

44:31

then predictably how

44:35

their children

44:36

are reacting to the way they treat

44:39

money again this this

44:41

common virtually every

44:43

time i talk to parents when

44:47

i bring up how their children

44:50

are going to react when they observe their parents

44:53

treating money with disrespect or ignoring

44:55

it fighting

44:57

the clicks be instantly get

45:00

that's exactly what we see her

45:02

what happens if one of you lose your job

45:10

com the two of you haven't thought about this i mean you've lost

45:12

your jobs multiple times you move

45:14

things have happened how

45:16

can we not factory nissin

45:19

you're planning

45:21

the great

45:26

how did that know like she doesn't that

45:28

involved at all says all it's to me and i just

45:30

feel overwhelmed sadist no

45:35

i just i am i was i feel like my

45:37

expectations that we're going to sail from

45:39

the start so i don't plan the

45:42

when like i just plan that our there's

45:44

no way we're going into the be able to save that five hundred

45:46

dollars by the end of the month like a nodding

45:48

and about your for it again i know

45:51

i have make sluggishness detail

45:52

now that's honest the not

45:55

even playing to win you

45:57

already have accepted that you're going to lose

46:02

the terrible way to live

46:10

the back

46:12

what eating killed

46:13

irina for me wife

46:16

with that makes sense if i haven't

46:18

thought about that way but that's

46:21

those are words that

46:23

i didn't

46:24

no

46:25

i needed to hear but those are like that makes

46:28

a perfect sense

46:30

this

46:31

going to survived

46:33

fine

46:34

the standard other day

46:37

so

46:39

the have options

46:41

what do you think your options are the

46:44

it's like those that maybe those scantron

46:47

test we used to take and you don't know the answer

46:49

there's multiple choice but least you can eliminate

46:51

a few things is there anyone

46:54

around you who you know you

46:56

don't wanna take advice

46:59

i'm let's say your dad

47:01

we decided today that we're

47:03

going to completely cut my dad

47:05

out of the little bastards it's in ocala was

47:08

very good and assertive today with him no

47:10

we're not going to be buying that car know we don't we're

47:12

not doing that we're

47:14

gonna sell the car as it is that broke down and

47:16

keep the money and we

47:19

will make the decision on one when and

47:21

if we want to use that money on a new car

47:24

i don't be that is marked off

47:26

who else

47:27

one it is the thing is like i want

47:30

to be self sufficient and i've had this conversation

47:32

with my mom that i do not want to the

47:34

in that to her forever

47:36

i don't know how to get their like i get

47:38

to that point it's a block like it's like

47:41

i don't know how to uninvolved her

47:44

now that we've thought the bankruptcy

47:47

it's not that i can take out another loan

47:49

so they'll bank and not her

47:53

okay you went to what my question was

47:55

without

47:57

that would like to cut out the family

48:00

my him

48:04

in a lot of ways

48:06

you can see what

48:08

haiti's constant spinning

48:10

focusing on irrelevant

48:12

details gets let's

48:15

her avoid

48:16

very uncomfortable answers

48:20

i pressure on a just

48:22

you can see the answer she said she said

48:24

i would like to cut out my

48:26

family all of my

48:28

family

48:30

that's real

48:33

that is something she never would

48:35

get to if she

48:37

focuses on spinning the

48:40

irrelevant details everything

48:42

by

48:43

what actually matters

48:46

what are the reasons i do this podcast

48:48

that i want you

48:50

to hear real couples telling

48:53

me there story because

48:55

when he tell me their stores you

48:58

can hear

48:59

that much of it is totally

49:01

irrelevant interesting and sure

49:04

we like to know what type of car they driver

49:06

where they when

49:08

it comes to their money there's usually two

49:10

or three things that actually

49:12

matter and you can discard

49:15

all the rest this is a t

49:17

skill you gotta learn

49:19

when it comes to your money there are about three

49:22

to five things that actually matter

49:24

for what's your in town what's

49:27

your savings rate what's your debt

49:30

there's a few big wins

49:32

and if you get those five to ten big

49:34

wins in life right

49:37

you never have to worry about the

49:39

price of coffee or can you order

49:41

an extra desert or even can

49:43

you stay an extra day on your vacation

49:46

heart

49:48

of living a rich life is being able to hone

49:51

in on those key factors

49:53

the things that really matter

49:56

and that's why love his podcast because

49:59

every time

49:59

come on one of these conversations i don't

50:02

know what they're gonna tell me

50:04

i do know that they're going to give me a lot of stories

50:06

in a lot of information and it's my job to

50:08

try to figure out what actually matters

50:10

along with their help

50:12

now we are really getting into

50:14

kelly

50:17

they have you ever told your mom know

50:20

i've tried the

50:22

doesn't work out very well

50:25

they have an effect question again and i want you to listen

50:27

to your answer katie

50:29

have you ever told your mom know

50:31

you

50:34

have

50:36

okay you mean example

50:39

yeah that's to

50:42

watch her dog

50:44

a couple years ago right after

50:46

she bought the car and about

50:48

indebted so i originally agreed

50:52

is it going outta town and then

50:54

pile mom decided to come up

50:56

and i said hey change of plans

50:59

my mother and my family saying with as it's really not

51:01

convenient can we work together to find

51:03

another solution the and

51:06

all of a sudden i'm like this horrible person

51:08

and so ungrateful

51:11

the length i'm maybe i missed

51:13

it but where was the word know in that

51:15

dialogue

51:16

i can no longer watch the dogs

51:19

it's not gonna happen

51:20

ah devon i don't really have

51:22

no okay thank you

51:25

okay so can we rewrite your story

51:27

as you never told your mom know in

51:29

your entire life come on i

51:31

love that the example you gave

51:33

me

51:34

in that example your first answer

51:36

to your mom was yes and

51:39

then

51:40

when it became in can be the you want to change your mind you go

51:42

hey mom ten we come

51:44

up with the solution together that's

51:46

not a know actually

51:49

i'm curious katie have you ever told anyone

51:51

aside from your kids are husband

51:54

know

52:01

no

52:04

the felix said

52:05

i know it kind of handout like i know that

52:07

it's bad i know it's bad

52:11

yeah

52:14

i'm trying to be better

52:16

that

52:17

i don't know how being

52:19

better

52:20

the skill

52:21

yeah he meant that i have been better

52:23

boundaries but i don't feel like i've

52:26

i've ever been taught boundaries so i don't know

52:30

i just do it because i'd rather do it then

52:33

hear about at or

52:36

yeah he seeing a therapist

52:38

he i'm currently seen one good

52:40

the at it and it's it helps a lot fresher

52:43

good i'm glad i did you tell your therapist about the

52:45

conversation we were going to have

52:47

yeah

52:49

why deputy want to be sensitive

52:51

who the work that you're doing with your

52:53

therapist i'm so glad you are seeing one

52:57

it sounds like it's much deeper

52:59

than

53:01

your mom and a dog and a jeep

53:03

i think the reason it's hard to get

53:05

to the root of things it's because everything feels

53:07

so enmeshed as like

53:09

, in the same themes that you're recognizing

53:11

are some of the same themes that my therapist recognizes

53:14

because it's hard to sift through

53:17

well look at where your kids

53:19

are right now look at the cheap

53:21

that you're driving i mean it's

53:23

every single place

53:25

i'm really happy to hear that katie

53:27

is working with a therapist

53:29

i always encourage my readers

53:31

my listeners if appropriate

53:34

he got a therapist and i talk about my

53:36

experience in seeing a therapist would cast

53:39

and i were discussing a printer

53:40

the got really hard

53:42

and we went to see a therapist and it was

53:44

immensely useful

53:46

that while i wish everyone

53:49

would go and see a therapist when appropriate

53:51

in their life fact the matter is

53:53

the vast majority of people will not

53:56

it's expensive

53:58

it's hard it's

54:00

unfortunately stigmatize in our culture

54:03

i don't want any

54:05

of that

54:06

that's why i encourage people

54:08

to see a therapist like talk about miles store

54:11

the with this podcast i

54:13

also wanted to set the context

54:16

of weird this podcast fits

54:18

in it is not therapy then

54:20

i don't try to pretend it is a lot of

54:22

respect for therapist

54:23

were highly trained and work with people

54:26

for many years

54:28

that's phenomenal

54:29

this podcast i get to speak to a couple

54:31

once maybe a little bit email follow

54:34

imagine

54:36

because most people will never

54:38

see a therapist

54:39

what did he do

54:40

they often will go on tic toc and

54:43

get financial advice they will try to

54:45

read a book but their partner won't read

54:47

it too

54:48

so there's that

54:50

that's why

54:51

the on this podcast i wanted

54:53

to go behind closed doors

54:55

and show you how couples actually

54:58

talk about money

54:59

for some this alone is super

55:02

helpful gives you

55:03

yeah ability to have a conversation

55:05

with your partner like you've never had one before

55:08

others might say wow

55:10

we should do this and we should actually go see a therapist

55:12

i think would be really helpful whatever

55:14

you choose i

55:16

want you to know there are lots of options

55:18

out there i don't want anyone

55:21

to ever stigmatizing a therapist and

55:23

his podcast sits in but does not

55:25

replace therapy

55:28

hell if you're honest and you look forward to years

55:30

where do you think you will be financially

55:33

speaking

55:36

the situations with us being or buy a house

55:38

or her mom is made it very clear countries

55:41

make very clear we need to pay her off first

55:43

so before we can

55:45

even remotely think about saving

55:47

for a house we

55:50

need to save to be a her off

55:53

what your twenty five thousand dollars threat which

55:55

is where i lived a very fair

55:58

the in a be

55:59

mean

55:59

the boss

56:01

agreed it and we be we understand that no

56:03

one does this is something now

56:06

that we we don't working towards

56:08

i'm trying , find

56:10

out a solution out a

56:13

we would like to tennessee wasn't expedite the process

56:16

what happens after you pay off

56:18

your debt

56:19

it didn't get a clear answer that

56:22

have you ever have you ever thought about life

56:24

after death

56:26

the

56:27

i i can say that i necessarily

56:29

have

56:32

that he would have you thought about

56:34

i want to go and treads they want

56:36

to be able to

56:39

make a purchase a not feel guilty about it

56:42

later on and

56:44

i wanna be able to take

56:47

the kids to disneyland and

56:49

not have to have

56:51

you know like one , our family members

56:53

com because they offered to pay for it i

56:55

want to be self sufficient they want

56:57

to be able to do

56:59

things for our kids and our family and start our

57:01

own traditions and

57:03

patients it

57:05

memory

57:07

that's a powerful vision

57:10

have you talked about their vision for together

57:13

the national yes we we ever

57:15

we've communicated that was one it either

57:18

that's cool i'm pleasantly surprised

57:21

because often times people

57:23

who are in a lot of death

57:26

like you're driving in the fog

57:28

the can only see fifty feet added

57:30

and if you ask them what has fifty feet

57:33

they go man i'm just trying to make it the next fifty

57:36

so it's cool to hear you

57:38

had division i love that being able to buy

57:41

something without guilt being able to go to disneyland without

57:43

a family member having to pay for i think that's

57:45

beautiful let's

57:47

figure out if we get you there what

57:49

do you think would prevent you

57:52

from paying off your debt

57:54

worse or thought about having to make a big decision

57:56

and it's literally crippling so i feel

57:58

like not making a bad decisions

58:01

where it comes to big purchases like cars

58:03

or houses in the future or

58:05

taking a trip when we shouldn't that

58:07

like that that we can afford when

58:10

he best friend being able

58:12

to get there

58:13

can't tell what's going to stop you from paying

58:15

off

58:21

can you fit it in

58:24

roka blaming when

58:26

it comes to take yeah because

58:28

we get the i think now when

58:31

we get coffee a growing fast release

58:33

waiver

58:34

very

58:36

nervous and anxious

58:37

when he comes

58:40

that

58:41

the making more should be decisions like that

58:44

and the when

58:47

it us

58:48

keepers from

58:51

prisoners are that our comfort zone to shut

58:53

it

58:53

i think that leads us into

58:55

the exact cycle that were and already like it's

58:57

like we will likely to are not equipped

58:59

to make the decision so we refer back to my

59:01

mom and then she makes the decision for us which is

59:03

very thing that we're trying the vision

59:06

is being selfish had been confident

59:08

make our own decision

59:10

the funny one principle

59:13

of psychology that i've observed

59:15

the human nature

59:17

that

59:17

most people would rather do

59:20

the same seen for years

59:22

and years even if they are

59:25

sailing try

59:27

something new most

59:29

people are more comfortable sticking

59:31

with something and ceiling

59:33

then trying something new and

59:36

potentially fairly

59:38

the how ridiculous that sounds

59:41

that's the way we do

59:43

think about a people have been frustrated about

59:46

finding a job

59:47

they go about it the same way they've been doing

59:49

it for years and years they send a resume

59:52

on a website and they wonder why they don't get a response

59:54

the i had a young

59:56

woman on instagram d m me

59:58

the other d c three the she got a

1:00:01

applications in nobody response was a what does

1:00:03

she joined the dream job program we show

1:00:05

you a better way of doing this

1:00:07

and she wrote back with a litany

1:00:10

of all these reasons it might not work for

1:00:13

that indecision will probably cost

1:00:15

or two hundred and sixty thousand dollars

1:00:19

most people would rather do the same thing for

1:00:21

years even if they are failing

1:00:23

then to try something new

1:00:26

though with katie and

1:00:28

tell tell me they they do this

1:00:31

i feel like compassion i also

1:00:33

know that there a lot of other people out

1:00:35

there

1:00:36

who do the exact same day

1:00:46

i want you to talk about money with your partner

1:00:48

and smile not argue

1:00:50

over how much brunch

1:00:53

you hear me spending hours

1:00:55

with these couples on the podcast to help

1:00:57

them talk about money

1:00:58

that's because talking about money is heart we

1:01:01

come to the table with different perspectives

1:01:04

on money with certain beliefs about money

1:01:06

whatever partner disagrees how

1:01:09

do we even know if either of us is

1:01:11

right that's why i've put

1:01:13

together some word for word scripts

1:01:16

to help you start talking about money

1:01:19

and i'll give you these scripts for com

1:01:21

and topics like

1:01:22

then why do we can overspend or or

1:01:24

even my partner doesn't even wanna

1:01:26

talk about money

1:01:28

you can get these scripts for

1:01:30

free at i w t dot

1:01:32

com

1:01:41

let's you this you've got your family dynamic everyone

1:01:43

has their own i have my own to

1:01:46

let's get out of your situation

1:01:48

and you transport over to my so

1:01:51

i'm married to and

1:01:53

we have our financial discussions together

1:01:57

what role do you think my parents play those

1:02:00

financials cousins and i have with my wife

1:02:03

in zero

1:02:04

he got back to sag

1:02:06

of course

1:02:08

of course

1:02:10

are there certain times i would say no yeah

1:02:14

i sure that because i want you to know that

1:02:16

it is possible

1:02:19

what do you think

1:02:20

exists in my dynamic that's different than

1:02:23

yours

1:02:25

well you don't go to them with every single

1:02:27

decision that you're going to make

1:02:30

correct

1:02:32

obligated to do that

1:02:35

no if you

1:02:37

the only give you unsolicited advice but

1:02:40

when they do you take it with a grain of salt

1:02:41

look at my skin color

1:02:45

what is my background

1:02:47

or indians

1:02:49

you think he the and parents give unsolicited

1:02:51

advice have you ever heard any jokes about

1:02:53

asian people are anybody that

1:02:55

yeah yeah i'm a master

1:02:58

at getting unsolicited advice

1:03:00

as well

1:03:03

to be

1:03:05

hum competent with money

1:03:08

so that you know

1:03:10

whether or not

1:03:12

the decision right for you and right

1:03:14

yeah the situation that's right

1:03:16

because if you don't send your just as

1:03:18

reactionary teenager who goes mom

1:03:20

leave me alone for you actually don't know what's

1:03:22

good for you

1:03:23

bromley milan going to go run in traffic not

1:03:26

a good move the yeah

1:03:28

to be good you also

1:03:30

simultaneously up to build those communication skills

1:03:33

it sounds like getting rid of this

1:03:36

ghost in their relationship is something

1:03:38

that towel and katie both wanna do

1:03:41

i'm glad it they are on boards good take a

1:03:43

while but i'm glad that they both have

1:03:45

the same intention

1:03:47

now i wanna get into some numbers

1:03:51

that's gonna help us understand

1:03:53

what their next moves might be

1:03:56

though and eighty eight hundred

1:03:58

dollars a month in

1:03:59

in common

1:04:03

talk about your

1:04:05

yet

1:04:06

so you're dead is thirty nine

1:04:09

thousand dollars i can

1:04:11

you break that down for me

1:04:13

the twenty four twenty five thousand

1:04:15

to my mom and then

1:04:18

then the on by my

1:04:20

mom the balances fifteen thousand

1:04:23

one thing as weighing heavy our minds

1:04:25

the

1:04:26

i'm october

1:04:29

funded it gets paid out said more

1:04:31

president says alaska and

1:04:33

viewer one that's have been have one

1:04:35

year old to how does matter as long as you live

1:04:38

in alaska do with one you get

1:04:40

a gift

1:04:41

in

1:04:43

this year's total is gonna be

1:04:47

what million grant young as thirteen grand they

1:04:50

were going to get direct deposit your bank account

1:04:53

on whatever day in the morning boom

1:04:55

sort of income it's there

1:04:56

and we've already been told what we're gonna do

1:04:59

ah yeah been an old by the ghost

1:05:02

by the ghosts is already informed us or we should

1:05:04

do is it but we're not you sure if

1:05:06

that's necessarily

1:05:07

the know set up and saying like we don't even

1:05:10

know

1:05:10

what did it goes tell you that you

1:05:12

are going to do with your thirteen thousand

1:05:15

are a the jeep off she wants us

1:05:17

to goes want a spiritual path and we're we're

1:05:19

not too sure if that's the correct

1:05:21

path for us

1:05:22

okay well i can answer that for you

1:05:24

that can i just point out that

1:05:27

the last ten years of your relationship have

1:05:29

essentially been one hack

1:05:32

people financial decision after another

1:05:37

and you're still thinking like that i said

1:05:39

what are your options to fix this

1:05:41

entire situation and here we are talking

1:05:43

about a one time thirteen thousand dollar transactions

1:05:47

the i believe that it's always a pst

1:05:49

returns s

1:05:52

that the the you know

1:05:55

this is so com

1:05:57

and it's also so destructive

1:06:00

this is the idea

1:06:02

that most people

1:06:04

treat their money completely episodic

1:06:07

lead and transaction

1:06:10

them money is simply a series

1:06:12

of random arbitrary decisions

1:06:15

the way go to target do i get the gummy

1:06:17

bears on my frozen yogurt said we

1:06:19

spend extra pay down our mortgage

1:06:22

should be get this shirt or that's her is just one

1:06:24

transaction after another there's

1:06:26

no vision and

1:06:28

if you treat money this way you treated that

1:06:30

way until you die

1:06:33

yogurt gummy bears shirt

1:06:35

that like do that

1:06:38

the are living

1:06:39

lost in the transactions

1:06:42

there's no vision the are lead

1:06:45

there and kept their

1:06:47

her mom

1:06:48

what i really wish for them is to zoom

1:06:50

out come up with a vision

1:06:53

that vision

1:06:55

should incorporate

1:06:56

what they love what are they want to spend more

1:06:59

on their money down

1:07:00

what's a priority to them do they really

1:07:03

wanna pay this debt off how fast

1:07:05

what are they willing to do in order

1:07:07

to accomplish that

1:07:08

set of money rules

1:07:11

they can be simple things like

1:07:14

we're going to have a date night once a month

1:07:16

the war

1:07:17

we are only going to eat at this

1:07:19

place once a quarter whatever

1:07:21

it's their money rules that

1:07:24

is how you come up with a vision if you

1:07:26

don't do that you'll spend the rest of your life

1:07:28

just focusing episodic lead on

1:07:31

random transactions and random money

1:07:33

decisions over and over and

1:07:35

over again

1:07:35

and

1:07:38

your savings is twenty five hundred your

1:07:41

investments is fifty two hundred

1:07:43

the

1:07:45

you feel about these numbers

1:07:48

it's painful for me because the

1:07:50

way we do spend big chunks of money like our tax

1:07:52

return gone like it's

1:07:55

we had and thousand dollars and that savings

1:07:57

account now it's dwindled down to twenty five

1:07:59

hundred

1:07:59

the third

1:08:01

paint ball dwindled were

1:08:04

what he's gonna be on your means

1:08:06

the eating out

1:08:08

yeah

1:08:09

hobby shot

1:08:12

what he did good delivery

1:08:14

no ah so it up

1:08:16

here there's like these drive up coffee shops

1:08:18

etc really

1:08:20

good and we're going there every

1:08:22

single day

1:08:24

the

1:08:26

did you go there when he was at work

1:08:29

oh yeah i would go there i've been going

1:08:31

every single day that sixteen

1:08:33

years old

1:08:35

really

1:08:36

the i genuinely since i got my driver's license

1:08:39

ah as not seven to eight

1:08:41

dollars a day and then if i take the kids

1:08:43

often tend to get them sunday not all

1:08:45

the time but then it can get upwards

1:08:47

of like fifty dollars with fab

1:08:50

usually i'm not operating

1:08:52

at the coffee level i don't know if you've heard

1:08:54

any of my other material i can tell you to

1:08:57

things first off how

1:09:00

important do you think your coffee habit

1:09:03

is in light of your entire financial

1:09:05

situation

1:09:07

the know that it's something that i'm willing to

1:09:09

give up i just

1:09:12

it's hard for me to find the willpower again

1:09:14

back to the mindset

1:09:16

of like why might have will get the scheduler for because

1:09:18

the case are you totally ignored my question

1:09:21

or it's this is like number ten on

1:09:23

what you should be thinking about let

1:09:26

me put it bluntly you'd

1:09:28

you have five hundred things that you're

1:09:30

thinking about what rugs should be by we

1:09:32

have this car we have the pft he just

1:09:34

got to reduce income oh my gosh are bonus

1:09:36

comes but it's variable ah don't know

1:09:38

about these rugs

1:09:40

and you're treating them all

1:09:42

like there at the same right

1:09:44

and it's driving you both nuts

1:09:46

true either

1:09:48

youtube [unk] cannot get where you want

1:09:50

to go

1:09:51

hi

1:09:52

considering rugs

1:09:54

at the same level as your desk

1:09:57

they are not to say they're not even the same

1:10:00

the animal they're not even the same universe

1:10:03

coffee problem okay we could talk about your coffee

1:10:06

thing

1:10:07

if not the same as owing

1:10:09

forty thousand dollars to your mom

1:10:12

for course

1:10:14

it or not really good universe

1:10:16

but then she said if you dress

1:10:18

didn't get your coffee you could pay off the

1:10:20

stat why are you listening to

1:10:23

your jeter i did a

1:10:25

you're totally right

1:10:30

bad hearing it allowed the word nigger

1:10:33

would be that the to of you're just stuck in this pattern

1:10:35

for the next ten years my biggest fear

1:10:38

the happened in order to change

1:10:40

you have to change your behavior

1:10:42

let's see if you're really sure how

1:10:44

much is that coffee

1:10:46

copy of almost as much as eating out

1:10:48

so what you want do about that

1:10:52

the same thing

1:10:54

hey

1:10:55

no a day day

1:10:57

couple days that i go out for coffee

1:10:59

so right now seven days a week how

1:11:01

many days you wanted to

1:11:05

realistically i think i could do

1:11:07

it for

1:11:08

what you put it down

1:11:10

start it

1:11:11

five

1:11:13

you definitely a couple of weeks get used to it

1:11:15

they cut down to four

1:11:17

the

1:11:18

they couldn't do it right

1:11:20

right but each week

1:11:22

i want you to be noticing this is a great opportunity

1:11:24

for you to write it is a journal your oh my gosh

1:11:26

it's my first day since i was sixteen not going

1:11:29

this is how i feel just a comfortable

1:11:31

with it were building new habits the

1:11:34

matter to me for takes an extra week or two to

1:11:36

get your targets you both want a fresh

1:11:38

start this is your chance normally

1:11:42

i do not get to

1:11:44

the coffee level to when i work

1:11:46

with people i prefer to

1:11:48

focus on things like asset allocation

1:11:50

and money dials than investments

1:11:53

and savings rates

1:11:54

in this case

1:11:56

i actually think the coffee is really import

1:11:59

for

1:11:59

haiti the coffee matters

1:12:02

because it is a symbol

1:12:05

the old patterns

1:12:07

old routine

1:12:09

it is a symbol the letting

1:12:12

old habits guy do what

1:12:14

you are doing today it

1:12:17

displays a lack of vision

1:12:19

of were see and cow wanna

1:12:21

go that's why i'm pushing them

1:12:24

on the coffee this is why i

1:12:26

think that the opportunity for a fresh

1:12:28

start

1:12:29

the deeply human need

1:12:31

something that we all love

1:12:34

the idea of

1:12:35

and for killing katie they really get the chance

1:12:38

to create a new vision

1:12:40

of how they want to use money the

1:12:43

coffee fits into that because it is

1:12:45

a routine that she goes to

1:12:47

and spends money on every single day

1:12:50

continuing and looking on at your numbers year

1:12:53

you rent is

1:12:55

fine roughly seventeen

1:12:57

percent

1:12:58

don't move

1:13:00

okay you your daycare the thousand dollars

1:13:02

i know i was it he said so

1:13:04

get

1:13:06

you're about to move off she was thinking about she

1:13:08

want

1:13:08

what do not play same year

1:13:10

but then i was like know i should do the

1:13:13

opposite of what i want

1:13:15

like

1:13:17

never any say say they're okay

1:13:20

you know where they're located a usually i don't

1:13:22

advise people whenever you're going to do just do the

1:13:24

opposite at me for the next six months and

1:13:26

would you like to joke around you buy

1:13:28

i don't want to joke around with you about you trusting

1:13:30

herself okay

1:13:32

here's what i would like instead

1:13:34

i don't want you leave

1:13:36

this call thing whatever i'm gonna do i do the opposite

1:13:38

because that's just further disempowers

1:13:41

you in the direction

1:13:43

you're going to to you both need

1:13:45

to actually become competent and confident

1:13:47

with money so i'll

1:13:49

give you a lifeline i'll give you like a bumper bowling

1:13:52

for the next six months you think yourself what would were meet

1:13:54

you how would he handled yeah

1:13:56

i made a mistake

1:13:58

we were having a lot of fun

1:13:59

that i had to catch myself to sound

1:14:02

because i do not

1:14:04

want them to do the opposite

1:14:06

the everything they say it

1:14:08

sounds funny that it's

1:14:11

actually not funny at all

1:14:13

the true

1:14:15

because i need them to develop

1:14:17

the confidence and competence

1:14:19

and you can't do that if you're joking with your

1:14:21

partner like whatever we're going to do let's do the opposite

1:14:24

that actually just demeans

1:14:26

then it makes you

1:14:28

the stupid

1:14:29

you can't take yourself seriously if you can't

1:14:31

take yourself seriously

1:14:33

how can your partner take you serious

1:14:36

so i caught myself there i wish

1:14:38

i hadn't even gone down that route i

1:14:41

don't want them to do the opposite

1:14:43

of everything they think i want them to

1:14:45

build the skills so that they

1:14:47

can think about money correct

1:14:51

we want to changes

1:14:53

absolutely how can you

1:14:55

cal help change this

1:14:59

stepping into i take more active

1:15:02

the on me she's not wrong and i definitely

1:15:04

have taken a backseat

1:15:06

nara of financial situation in on

1:15:09

the

1:15:11

and the passenger

1:15:13

seat you know says sitting in the backseat

1:15:17

the be better article piracy best

1:15:19

be a better analogy know and

1:15:22

a passenger be beer co pilot

1:15:25

that's great metaphor

1:15:27

oh pilots

1:15:29

right now it almost feel like no one's flying

1:15:31

the plane if anything it's mom

1:15:35

when the two of you are copilots guess who can

1:15:37

see in the cockpit

1:15:42

as you can feel about that

1:15:43

happy what

1:15:46

can you literally told me like for example

1:15:48

a clone we buy houses that you have to consult

1:15:50

me like you guys can not make this decision

1:15:52

on your own it's like that repeated

1:15:55

about everything a decision as i have

1:15:57

no confidence

1:15:59

that i can do

1:16:03

the lot of techniques that

1:16:06

people like your mom use

1:16:09

a lot and i'm sure that the work you're doing

1:16:11

with your therapist will help you uncover

1:16:13

those i'm really glad that you're speaking to them

1:16:15

that's a lifelong thing

1:16:20

for me speaking on the finances

1:16:22

i

1:16:24

just can't tell you how outrageous it is from an

1:16:27

outside perspective to hear someone

1:16:29

say my mom bought me a car

1:16:31

and then made me pay for it that

1:16:34

saddled you it will settle you for years

1:16:36

the two of you this

1:16:40

is almost an opportunity for you to each

1:16:42

develop skills as copilots

1:16:44

you get to tell your mom next

1:16:47

week was the to be solidified his mom

1:16:50

we really appreciate

1:16:52

that you have helped us with carlos

1:16:54

we actually want to pay

1:16:56

it off more aggressively that's

1:16:59

going to shorten the time period from x

1:17:01

the why years

1:17:04

that's it it's not up for discussion well what

1:17:06

about this pmt to the we're

1:17:08

gonna handle that on our own but this

1:17:10

is what we are prepared to do with this simple

1:17:13

as that i'm not asking i'm telling

1:17:15

and if you send an email your therapist can help you with

1:17:17

it

1:17:18

that thirteen thousand should not go toward your carla

1:17:22

there

1:17:23

that money is for savings and investments

1:17:26

put it aside this is a rare opportunity

1:17:29

and honestly that honestly that low enough and

1:17:31

you do make enough that you could pay it off

1:17:34

they will just take you time

1:17:37

oh

1:17:39

the thinking cause of the i know her

1:17:41

what if she says you don't pay

1:17:43

it off and i'm selling it

1:17:46

you will have a car

1:17:48

would you do that

1:17:50

what about a passer

1:17:53

she knows that would leave us in a bind with

1:17:55

our vehicle she

1:17:56

yeah oh yeah

1:17:59

would you do it

1:17:59

i wouldn't i wouldn't put attacker

1:18:02

how did off at the past i would say you know

1:18:04

and we're taking a new approach with our money

1:18:07

for prioritizing money they

1:18:09

were being more responsible money and

1:18:11

part of that is that i'm focusing

1:18:13

on my discussions with

1:18:15

and we're going to make decisions as a end

1:18:19

of story or what about me what we

1:18:21

are making decisions as a

1:18:24

i love that because it's so politically correct

1:18:26

it's not saying we're not talking to you anymore cause

1:18:28

your decisions are horrible for us

1:18:31

we are making decisions together as a

1:18:33

you just keep repeating that

1:18:37

and i got

1:18:39

the will not be pushed around anymore with your finances

1:18:41

because if it doesn't stop here it will

1:18:43

go on for the rest your lives he started

1:18:45

see why it's so

1:18:47

important to decide at a high level what

1:18:50

kind of like do we want and

1:18:52

it trickles all the way down to katie

1:18:54

you sitting there in saint or should i go break

1:18:57

my rule of only going to eat have coffee

1:18:59

four times a week know because i've a seeker

1:19:01

vision and coffee

1:19:02

my i had a vision of being

1:19:05

three

1:19:06

being independent of my mom the

1:19:09

tools you are not bad people because you

1:19:11

can't will have to stuff to go

1:19:13

right foot

1:19:14

you have all the information you need

1:19:17

and you're actually talking to the author of the books

1:19:20

yeah trust me neither of you

1:19:22

are magically changing after this of the

1:19:25

, you start to accept that the minute you can

1:19:27

actually build a system that works works

1:19:30

there is no trumpets playing at the end of this call

1:19:32

there's no general saluting in the background with

1:19:34

a tear running down his cheek nope none of that's of

1:19:37

the two of you came to this call and you are leaving

1:19:40

you call basically the same

1:19:42

people basically reality that he

1:19:45

to say okay i'm ready to make some changes

1:19:47

i need some help i

1:19:49

spoke to katie and cow for hours

1:19:52

and hours it was one of the longest

1:19:55

podcast recordings that i've ever done

1:19:58

when i get off these calls are his wish

1:20:00

the couples the best that

1:20:03

i never know if they will actually change

1:20:05

or not a few days

1:20:07

after speaking with them i received follow

1:20:10

up letters from both you

1:20:12

can read the full letters at i w

1:20:14

t dot com slash follow ups

1:20:17

let me give you an excerpt from

1:20:19

each of their notes to me eight

1:20:22

he said in order to

1:20:24

see change

1:20:25

we will need to systematically rewire

1:20:28

the way we think and how we feel

1:20:30

about money

1:20:31

that starts with be incompetent

1:20:33

reading your book and understanding the fundamentals

1:20:36

then tackling the shame

1:20:39

both on my own in with a mental

1:20:41

health professional

1:20:43

new rules

1:20:45

we don't speak with others flash

1:20:48

family about our finances

1:20:50

we set

1:20:51

foundries

1:20:54

how and i will wait tab conversations about

1:20:56

money when we're in the same room

1:20:58

the able to concentrate and fully

1:21:00

connect

1:21:02

friday nights are for our family

1:21:05

the order pizza and do an outdoor

1:21:07

activity together

1:21:08

memories don't need to be expensive

1:21:12

how road i

1:21:14

know it has only been a week i

1:21:16

feel a fire under my ass to get

1:21:18

this debt paid off so we can live

1:21:20

our rich life

1:21:22

eighteen i worked together to restructure our finances

1:21:25

to be for the most part fully automated

1:21:28

sitting down together we did the math again

1:21:30

for the pace we were going and said

1:21:33

f that we don't

1:21:35

want to be paying katie mama for another

1:21:37

twenty years their

1:21:39

letters go into much more detail

1:21:42

about exactly what they did including

1:21:44

their new money rules i would

1:21:47

highly encourage you to check them out at

1:21:49

i w t dot com slash follow

1:21:51

ups and all of this

1:21:53

was possible

1:21:54

the county were able to start

1:21:57

having productive conversations

1:21:59

about money

1:22:00

if you want to start talking to your partner about money

1:22:03

go to i w t dot com slash

1:22:05

episode fifty one as

1:22:07

episode five want to give you everything

1:22:10

you need to get started including

1:22:12

word for word script

1:22:19

thanks for listening to i will teach

1:22:21

you to be rich i'm remit seat

1:22:23

please follow the show on apple spotter

1:22:26

fi or wherever you listen to podcasts

1:22:29

if , haven't read i will teach you to be

1:22:31

rich my foot foot up a

1:22:33

copy you can get the any bookstore

1:22:36

any library they will show you the specific

1:22:39

for how to build be build will teach you to be

1:22:42

rich system into your personal

1:22:44

finances