0:00

A quick favorite. Ask if you enjoy this podcast?

0:02

Do me a favor. Please. Go

0:04

to apple or spot if I and

0:06

click follow. See. Part of the

0:09

reason I started this podcast is that

0:11

money is taboo. And my

0:13

dream. Is. To be able to inspire

0:15

millions of people just like you. To. Build

0:17

a healthier relationship with money.

0:20

And. So by clicking follow on Apple podcasts

0:22

are spot a fight. It really helps my

0:25

team and it helps this podcast get in

0:27

front of more couples who need. It. Thank.

0:29

You again for being an eye wt listener. It means

0:31

a lot to my team and it means a lot

0:34

to me. I

0:39

find money. It's cliche, disable, like it's almost

0:41

like the root of all evil. There's so

0:43

much bad that can happen because of money.

0:45

Every time I tried have accomplishment

0:48

them. Okay this is what you

0:50

should be investing I he grows.

0:52

He rolls his eyes at me

0:54

on. Investing it's like it feels

0:56

like gambling addict lived in many

0:58

other places. There's a lot of

1:00

issues I have with the way

1:02

that American set financially for for

1:05

it's citizens. As the whole thing

1:07

that like myself worth is tied to

1:09

a number. And if you

1:11

don't max it out, that

1:13

means I'm worthless. And

1:16

I think part of that for me

1:18

is my net worth and living the

1:20

lifestyle that we live and being able

1:22

to shove it in my mom's face

1:24

to be like I told you I'd

1:26

still make. I

1:34

like to introduce you to Fernando

1:36

and a New Sugar. They're both

1:38

in their early thirties. they're both

1:40

Sri Lankan immigrants who experienced some

1:42

challenging childhoods related to the mental

1:44

health of their parents. They got

1:46

married, they moved to San Diego

1:48

and in many ways they are

1:50

living there rich life but still

1:52

they can see to connect about

1:54

money And when I asked them

1:56

what's going on I hear about

1:58

some very peculiar. Behavioral.

2:01

Issues when it comes to their monies from

2:03

both sides. To to trigger

2:05

warning for everyone listening and

2:07

watching. Today's episode covers religion,

2:09

American politics, generational trauma and

2:11

we do touch on domestic

2:14

and emotional abuse. Fernando and

2:16

a New Says story is

2:18

viscerally real. And I'm so proud

2:20

to be able to share with you today. We

2:26

were in our. Office for am right

2:28

now and I said hey Fernando, can

2:30

you. Take a look at these numbers at

2:32

me. I have faded are today.

2:36

He. Was playing video games at the

2:38

time so here like not. Right now, give

2:40

me a little bit. And I

2:42

to bleed and wide open. He said that

2:44

he can look at the numbers are right

2:46

away, so I think I probably started off

2:48

a little annoyed. When it comes to finances,

2:50

I just always think it's the most. Important

2:53

conversation so he should be some of the

2:55

put everything else away immediately and then have

2:57

a conversation. Me but I I know that

2:59

that is not fair. Did eventually

3:02

combines are looking at the numbers. Yeah

3:04

yes she did. He is suited

3:06

over and ago the my screen.

3:09

And we just started going down the

3:11

list of all of the expense categories

3:13

that exceeded and. Looking at the numbers

3:15

and I was explaining that is

3:17

Fighters and Numbers are based on

3:20

what we spent last year and

3:22

this is actually the first year

3:24

that we are combining finances by.

3:27

Trying to create. A combined budget

3:29

where we align on all of the numbers

3:32

for all of the different categories that I

3:34

had made. Was very difficult.

3:37

Worded the problem com um. It's

3:39

the problem came up when it got

3:41

down to the actual numbers for the

3:43

budget that I had set for the

3:45

specific category. Is like What? What? gimme

3:48

example category Our savings percentage and

3:50

are investing percentage was too low

3:52

for my comforts which means we

3:54

have to change our expenses. Somehow

3:56

she was a major like okay, fine

3:58

but where we can. Again, by

4:00

how much. And so that's

4:02

when I went over here said we're spending

4:05

too much on groceries and expand and eating

4:07

out lead to reduce that number. And

4:09

then he said i actually kind of like

4:11

are saving and investing percentage Why would we

4:13

need to increase it. For. Magically

4:15

And why is that out of our

4:17

grocery budget? The faceted got

4:20

down to such a silly conversation about

4:22

how much a carton of Just Egg

4:24

is. Is worth of the where for

4:26

cause I think. The. Reason it

4:28

really gods views because from my

4:31

perspective we spend way too much

4:33

money saving and just based on

4:35

my experience like. That

4:37

money go evaporates of the you go wrong and

4:40

you can but as a result of it. Does

4:42

is based on my my childhood and

4:45

out. ah the financial crisis affected us

4:47

So when it comes to setting forty

4:49

percent or what of that number was

4:51

of our armed income words. Savings.

4:55

Is this like such a massive amounts to

4:57

in my mind? Throw away

4:59

and sensing never see the benefits of.

5:02

On. The other side of that I'm not

5:04

spending on video games already like there are

5:06

other things that I have checked out of

5:08

this budget to try and make this realistic.

5:10

How to like were why am I always

5:13

lose? It was the review I hadn't met

5:15

in the conversation. How this conversation get results.

5:17

Or. Did It. Is to

5:20

get resolved. but it was over eight

5:22

hours and and it started around. Dude

5:24

I think it ended like a Pm

5:26

with a compromising in her direction but

5:28

also her her meeting me and understanding

5:30

like a There are things that Fernando

5:32

as unaccounted for in the budget by

5:34

just holding out and not. Bob

5:36

pursuing in his life. That.

5:38

She was able to also help me place

5:40

into our budgets and I do have a

5:42

video game on which I've never had in

5:44

my life before rak and say like hopefully

5:46

I can buy a twenty dollar game of

5:48

a few months and not feel that. So.

5:52

Problem. Solved. The problem for

5:55

says where. Every. Time I'd

5:57

say how the completion of them are

5:59

okay. What you should be investing.

6:01

As he grows he rolls his

6:04

eyes at me. On we have.

6:06

Discussions about whether. Investing

6:09

the money. Is really. The

6:11

way to. The. Us, you know,

6:13

generational? well. Something that we had

6:15

not even thought about before. have

6:18

we. Talk. About or our

6:20

plans. for the next year once a

6:22

year, but we looked. At our

6:24

monthly numbers of together here.

6:27

And so I know for a fast we

6:29

will have this argument again next year and

6:31

I want to presents it's. I'm

6:33

going to go on a limb. To. So

6:35

wild. Guess and guess that.

6:39

He. Rarely gives you substantive

6:41

feedback. A phone number. Of

6:44

how did you know it. Sounds.

6:48

As if this. Is How did? How did I

6:50

know? Actually that is, how do you think I

6:52

do that? Because I'm the. One. Who

6:54

makes recommendations from. Ah

6:56

in the changes that I think we should

6:58

make and he just. Kind of

7:01

goes along with us. and for data, you're

7:03

laughing. Does so accurate I will as

7:05

she will be on me for a few

7:07

days to be like you need to check

7:09

that and like let me know so I'll

7:11

look at the some review you have little

7:13

pie charts looks pretty finance of always have

7:15

that I'm like really bad with in terms

7:17

of like long term funny in general so

7:19

does gets overwhelming Oh my god if we're

7:21

within the numbers and good I can keep

7:23

pushing along a. Friend or when

7:26

you get those monthly reports. Will.

7:28

You feel. Not. What you

7:30

think. Would. You feel when you

7:33

get dieting. Anxiety.

7:35

Mattingly. Just childhood

7:37

trauma to of related to money

7:39

like money's is the scariest. Okay

7:42

so. Do you feel

7:44

bad when you have to make a purchase decision?

7:46

Oh yeah, Oh with how

7:49

bout. When. You hear people

7:51

talking about. Investing

7:53

or buying a house or even

7:55

traveling you feel as a means

7:58

Id. Ah, It really

8:00

comes to like taking a trip or something

8:02

like that. I don't have that kind of

8:04

anxiety, but I do have that anxiety when

8:06

it comes something like gambling like I don't

8:08

gamble at all because I like in my

8:10

mind you're just a few steps away from

8:12

losing everything and in again it's I understand

8:15

like a moderation thing by don't want it

8:17

crossed that line. I don't want that myself,

8:19

my family, that kind of situation and I

8:21

think another reason that I have a lot

8:23

of anxiety with money is because ah, Earnest

8:25

Kalsi like support my family and Michigan select

8:27

Dallas a part of the budget a lot

8:29

of mine. Monthly income goes towards

8:31

making sure that they're fine. Ah

8:33

ah and decide Make sure I

8:36

get this right. You've been said.

8:38

You're like gambling is investing gambling

8:40

to you. Is. A

8:42

Sense yes yes I do A D

8:44

C. it's about be That's where the

8:46

the major conflict comes in my mind.

8:48

in investing it's like. Is

8:51

feel like gambling? I don't know if something's

8:53

gonna happen. The stock market? all of us

8:55

and okay, that's interesting and it's the way

8:57

things are. You struck at all. By.

8:59

The fact that Fernando feals anxiety

9:01

every time you send over their

9:03

monthly report. However, First,

9:05

yeah, when he's at the I didn't think

9:07

he was immediately. Anxious about it. I

9:10

just thought that. He.

9:14

Would feel like okay gray and since I

9:16

can see the numbers I will say and

9:18

are are now makes me feel stupid because

9:20

I realized. I thought

9:22

he would just feel like. Happy.

9:26

To see that we are on the right

9:28

track and the more that we as that

9:30

together. Would it surprise you Didn't know

9:32

that? he probably never even gets down to

9:34

that level of analysis. I. Guess

9:36

it's obviously not. Let let's ask because I don't

9:38

want to put words in with Fernando. know every

9:41

year every year I look at it from a

9:43

very like I'll have. We. Are

9:45

inside of the guidelines as I have

9:47

been putting on that thing beforehand is

9:49

just one. Is

9:51

it feels like Id right now though there's like

9:53

a fit he just imagine a good causes a

9:55

bit in the summer and an eastern descent of

9:57

curiosity when you're sitting there spending two or three

9:59

hours. The analyzing the credit card spend every

10:01

month. What do you feel doing that? Control.

10:06

And com the device your meditation

10:08

for them. I just ahead of

10:10

us don't I don't need any

10:12

spending on a massage therapists. I

10:14

have my spreadsheets look at me

10:16

analyzes right here as the spectrum

10:18

and what do you feel that

10:20

moment where you tell him, take

10:22

a look. And

10:24

feel accomplishment right? I.

10:26

Checked all the boxes Are you project manager

10:29

by chance? Ah see it

10:31

is a product manager. But I'm a

10:33

very sight a individual. What will you

10:35

do as a tie? Be individual for

10:37

a job. I'm I'm a

10:39

business analyst. Of this or

10:41

that is better that tracks then. I

10:47

noticed this dynamic a lot with

10:49

couples. One person, the chaser, prepares

10:51

the financial discussion, crunches the numbers,

10:53

sends it over, and rubs their

10:56

hands together and satisfaction. I did

10:58

such a great job. And. The

11:00

other partner usually and avoid her. Opens.

11:03

Their email. Looks. At

11:05

the subject line goes I hell no.

11:08

Thus, Begins the pursuit.

11:11

The. Taser chases the avoid her

11:13

avoids. the more the avoid

11:15

the more the other chases.

11:18

With. Fernando and a New Stuff. They

11:20

are classic examples of his taser

11:22

of winter couples dynamic that there

11:24

are some interesting wrinkles. Fernando references

11:26

his childhood and the financial crisis

11:28

in Two Thousand and Eight, which

11:30

has made him afraid to invest.

11:33

Because. It feels like gambling. They

11:35

also supports his parents. I

11:38

noticed that they spend eight hours on

11:40

a money conversation which is way too

11:42

long. A Personally, I think the real

11:45

issues go a lot deeper. Will.

11:48

Be right back. I'm

11:50

here New York to do an event. I just had lunch

11:52

with my team today and we were talking about what it's

11:54

like to be back in the city. And

11:56

I was telling him I forgot how many

11:59

Sirens there are. From when I used to live

12:01

here. And. One of my coworkers were saying she's

12:03

thing at a hotel. And. She told me

12:05

it sounds like the trucks outside or

12:07

just driving into metal over and over

12:09

again. And then she said. I.

12:11

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money.com/from. Now.

14:35

Back to the show. When.

14:37

We first started dating. I

14:39

mean the were in. In

14:42

high school college ah and. I

14:44

remember him and. Going

14:47

to the movies multiple

14:49

times a year, Maybe.

14:52

Even twice a month. I

14:54

remember thinking oh my gosh, that is so

14:56

much money you're spending on something that I

14:58

could never even imagine. In. L

15:01

A movie ticket that than is That said,

15:03

ten dollars. I immediately added that up in

15:05

my head to the amount. Of money was

15:07

per month per year and I thought that was

15:09

too much. How did you know it was. Too.

15:12

Much what would you be settled? On.

15:15

What I spent. And.

15:17

Would you say that the to view grub

15:19

similarly socio economically. I was born

15:21

in Srinagar so we are indicates and in

15:23

on. My family moved here when I saw

15:25

as. We. Started off

15:28

very poor my parents for

15:30

scrubbing. The bathrooms. As a big boys,

15:32

they would often point that they boys out

15:34

in Michigan when we drove past it. And

15:37

my parents are not as college educations

15:39

package really does so in. My mom

15:41

now has some college degrees but they

15:44

both worked their way asked. To

15:46

middle class comfortable fill glass but

15:48

and money was always discuss. Ah,

15:51

as we don't have enough to

15:53

do certain things and that you

15:55

always has to be mindful of

15:57

money. And. I emily my mama.

16:00

In terms of financial control, she

16:02

would the one who. Led.

16:04

Our family. She was the one who.

16:07

Made. Sure, we were saving. The

16:10

as she handled all the money

16:12

on and she was very smart

16:14

she made sure that. We.

16:16

Had. A beautiful house. At

16:18

the end of the day, she made sure that

16:20

we could go on vacations. Five.

16:24

When. I would ask. First, certain

16:26

small things. it would always

16:28

be. You. Know we can't

16:30

afford it. And I think

16:32

very early on. I mean, I started working when

16:35

I was twelve. Just so that

16:37

I could have. Control. Of.

16:40

Myself. For context,

16:42

I think my mom was a bit

16:44

of a on I got narcissistic personality.

16:47

And I became on. To

16:50

the in like a narcissistic family structure. there's

16:52

like a scapegoat and the golden child. And

16:54

I have a younger sister who's nine years

16:56

younger than me. She was a little bit.

16:58

Of the Golden Child and I was the

17:01

scapegoat. So we had a very. Is. Just

17:04

as a very bad relationship my on

17:06

and I. I'm very

17:08

early on I realize that money was the

17:10

only way that I could gain any. Sort

17:13

of control of my life. started working when

17:15

I saw a babysitting than a lifeguard than

17:17

I did. Everything possible to

17:19

seats my bank account

17:21

some savings because. Then I

17:23

guess I know what I wanted and I couldn't. Have

17:26

any judgment and anyone else. But

17:30

a lot of therapy. Ah

17:33

no, actually I had.

17:36

A terrible as far as a

17:38

therapy when my mom forced us

17:40

to go into therapy because my

17:42

parents were getting a divorce and

17:45

on. She. Was not

17:47

a therapist for any of us and she

17:49

made the situation a lot worse and it's

17:51

just kind of scarred me and I've never

17:53

gone back. Would. You

17:56

read books on narcissism? Yes, I'm

17:58

afraid. It's or. Watch

18:00

video is about for talking about all

18:03

of this. End. He has

18:05

his describes a vector. You.

18:07

Have a relationship with your mom today. On.

18:11

That's not really. As.

18:13

He showed us a very angry person. And

18:15

I think that's a direct causes are having

18:17

to take control of everything in the house.

18:20

Because she had to take control of

18:22

money. That caused her

18:24

to become more angry. Audibly.

18:29

I. Don't think my dad helped her a

18:31

lot in in those cases and I'm sure

18:33

she felt. Very alone. And

18:36

she ended up. Taking.

18:40

It out on me and I.

18:43

Bet you know that's probably one of the area.

18:45

She just didn't feel supported. What

18:50

similarities do you see? With.

18:52

Your mom's handling of money and your handling

18:54

of it today. Both.

18:57

Pros and cons. She's. Only everything

18:59

I know about making sure that I and

19:01

my family are good. And I

19:03

think her whenever I get the chance and

19:05

I tell her you are the reason that

19:08

I was able to. Have

19:10

a beautiful apartment Detroit. You. Are the

19:12

reason I was able to move San Diego. Without the knowledge

19:14

that you gave me I would have never.

19:16

Gotten to where I am. The.

19:19

Part I don't tell her is that. The.

19:23

The trauma she has caused me

19:26

has made me very anxious. Very

19:28

scared. That like I do, I have

19:31

enough at all times. And.

19:33

My anxiety seeps through to the conversations that have

19:35

the fernando all the time. I'm

19:38

struck by the example that the News

19:40

the shares about how she thought Fernanda

19:42

was spending too much on movies in

19:44

high school. When I asked. What's.

19:47

Too much, she says. too much

19:49

compared to what I spent. Think.

19:52

About it in High School we're just

19:54

scratching the surface of how money works

19:56

out. Most adults I taught you don't

19:58

realize that it's okay if your wrist

20:00

life is different than mine, but if

20:02

you begin looking at the world by

20:04

judging other people for their spending, it

20:06

is very, very hard to change. I

20:08

know because that's exactly how I started

20:10

off my life. I. Also noticed

20:13

how much these early memories shaped a

20:15

new stuff, how much the affected her,

20:17

and how that has affected Fernando. And.

20:20

Their relationship. Similarly,

20:22

Our my family and we were immigrants be moved to

20:24

the U. S., the this paper we moved a time

20:26

or my dad's goal was to get us to the

20:29

U.S. Around like the eighth grader.

20:31

So my dad said losing his job and

20:33

my dad suffers from a mental illness which

20:35

is undiagnosed. Also, he doesn't. See.

20:37

That he has it which is not very

20:39

helpful effectively. After that point we he was

20:41

losing his job almost yearly and hours rider

20:43

on Sam the financial crisis. So we we

20:45

we were middle class. At some point we

20:47

got up to middle class from lower class

20:49

but then after that he wasn't really stable.

20:52

So to me like money is something that

20:54

could just be gone and I was just

20:56

some of the role that I had in

20:58

my household I was in charge of like

21:00

making sure the bank accounts were it balanced

21:02

and things like that. So to me that's.

21:04

Like even looking at my bank and can be

21:06

traumatic regardless of the amount that we had in

21:08

there said remember like the days when the mortgage

21:10

was going to taken out and make sure we

21:12

had the minimum in there for that. Like her

21:14

eyes, he does like the seventh or eighth grade.

21:17

While. He gets.art every two

21:19

weeks or months depending on the beach

21:21

was coming. And ah, Yeah.

21:24

I. Didn't like it. I

21:27

I've told he says he friends while

21:29

like I've buried vividly remember. When.

21:32

Wrote receive peanut butter costs when from fifty five

21:34

senses thirty five cents for beer. Growing up were

21:37

didn't have much money and I have mercy like

21:39

another ask for that again. As

21:42

we the oldest son. Down

21:44

the oldest. I.

21:46

So when you think about even looking

21:48

at a checking account, that can be

21:50

dramatic. you still feel that today. Is

21:52

a ah I like cause they live

21:54

in fear of losing our place losing

21:56

all everything we have discovered people as

21:58

a guide in like I'm not going

22:00

back. And I want to make you like my

22:03

family does it. I just want. To.

22:05

Make sure we set ourselves up to

22:07

not have that happen. I've

22:09

been poor and I'm not going back.

22:13

I often speak to people who grew up for.

22:15

A. Really poor. And. One

22:17

of the phrases that they say

22:19

very frequently is. I've

22:22

been poor once. I can be poor again.

22:26

Doesn't. Scare me. What?

22:28

You think about that. Scares.

22:30

Me: To

22:33

be we think about a guy got

22:35

a letter. Like you mentioned, I'm the

22:37

oldest son, but just like quarterly one

22:39

of the things I've always taken his.

22:41

I will take care of my family,

22:43

that is my job that I responsibility

22:45

and I'm never gonna let them experience

22:47

that again and like I will. I

22:49

will go to poverty. That to

22:51

be, think that doesn't scare me. When.

22:54

I will never put myself in a situation of

22:56

my family. My wife will

22:58

be core like that. he will never

23:00

that occur at attracts a little bit

23:02

more. I understand that you send money

23:04

back regularly as he is every month.

23:07

Guess we we pay for certain portions

23:09

of what's going on it at home.

23:11

Can you walk me through how that

23:13

relationship developed. I. Think that and

23:16

so that I think really started with when

23:18

my dad was initially hospitalized. does my freshman

23:20

year of college. It's a cycle.

23:22

Whatever expenses I can take off of their

23:24

hands, I want to do so so they

23:27

can live a little more free of allies.

23:30

And as you think you send every year. Ah,

23:33

Honestly, I understood by the

23:35

capella probably precisely, but thousands

23:37

or tens of thousands. Or

23:40

year. Yes, At least a like I

23:43

did. He didn't quit at the time that I

23:45

was doing that but when I'm there and I

23:47

see a problem I fix it. or by a

23:49

kitchen sink or something. Or

23:51

is a like, let's say about a thousand dollars a month

23:54

with that sound reasonable to you? I

23:56

think so. On average. A

23:58

thousand, three hundred a month. And

24:01

how do you feel about sending that amount of

24:04

money? Fernando? Like what? word? comes to

24:06

mind about the. Feeling yeah. I.

24:08

Wish I could do more like want to

24:10

get to point where I can help out

24:12

more so I can reduce the amount of

24:14

stress is putting on my sister and my

24:16

mom like. I want them

24:19

to live a simpler life. Unsatisfied.

24:22

Oh yes, that does India like

24:24

unsatisfied made motivates me to try

24:27

and make more money. You feel

24:29

proud of the amount you're sending.

24:33

Ah, I

24:35

used to but I guess because like

24:37

it's tapered off I don't as much

24:39

anymore. You feel proud that you send

24:41

money at all. Not

24:44

real. I just find that like I just as a said.

24:47

Like it's just part of your expectation.

24:50

Because I I do. So what's your take?

24:52

Did you ever have a discussion about. The

24:55

fact that Fernando sends money the

24:57

amount that he sends has ever

24:59

been a topic. Oh

25:01

yeah, sorry. I always knew that

25:04

he was going to be supporting. His family.

25:06

That was kind of. without question. I want

25:08

him to do that and looking to be

25:10

able to do that? It's very important to

25:12

him. It's very important to me that we

25:14

support his family when our undies cause helping

25:16

in my bank account. at one point I

25:18

would have like four or five thousand dollars

25:20

in my checking account and not putting it

25:22

in the savings should ask like why don't

25:24

spend as much you never know like I

25:26

don't have. My family's gonna need something so

25:28

always trying have. It. As liquid as

25:30

possible so so I can use to the theater

25:33

or someone needs of. Okay is.

25:35

There a number for you that feels good. Isn't.

25:37

Adults know. A. Guy says

25:40

more. It. Oh

25:42

what a think that it's gonna be with was

25:44

she had done my family's by the first month

25:47

of time as well and I had thought. For

25:49

many, many years since I was about eighteen,

25:52

And I. Think this he went on, so

25:54

I was once when it's about a decade

25:56

that I had to have sixty thousand dollars

25:58

set aside as a nice for. The to

26:00

get along for six months and our when I'm

26:02

only mentioned a jerk as we were having another

26:04

one of these arguments over budgeting. Within.

26:07

Like ten minutes. She took all those numbers,

26:09

extrapolated them, and said. The. Numbers: Fifteen

26:11

Thousand Dollars If no one your house is

26:13

working for six months you'll be fine and she's

26:15

like you already have that same and I lay

26:18

on the bad and hours when I'm going

26:20

to grow up like. A

26:22

because it felt like I didn't realize it. but I

26:24

felt like for the first time I could breathe in

26:26

a long time. And like. Died said you

26:28

in the couldn't remember when that pressure game and

26:31

it's just it's just felt like I was existing

26:33

like that. Then

26:36

of the reasons I loved his podcast

26:38

is that I get to bring you

26:41

stories from cultures the you might never

26:43

ever otherwise encounter. For example, when we

26:45

the last time you heard of a

26:47

son supporting his family. In.

26:50

Many cultures that the way goes. We

26:52

also saw the same dynamic with Barry

26:54

from episode seven whose parents live in

26:56

Pakistan with. Notable to me isn't that

26:59

he did this in seventh grade or

27:01

that he still remembers the price of

27:03

recess peanut butter cups or even that,

27:05

a New Sky. Is. Supportive of

27:08

him, supporting his family. But

27:10

striking to me is the moments where

27:12

see showed him how much money he

27:15

actually needs. And. He just lay

27:17

on his bed and almost threw up. For.

27:19

Me: this is so related. It

27:21

represents how so many of us to

27:23

get on this raft of life and

27:25

start letting the river carry us. We

27:28

almost never stopped to take stock of

27:30

where we came from. And. Where

27:32

we are? do I even wanna be

27:34

going in this direction? Should I feel

27:37

good? Bad? proud? We

27:39

mostly just he doing the same

27:41

thing that we've been doing for

27:43

decades, which coincidentally is when our

27:45

parents did. which coincidentally is what

27:47

their parents did. That

27:49

the other thing I love in my conversations

27:51

with people on this podcast that moment when

27:53

they realize they can change the way they

27:56

talk about money behave with money, even the

27:58

way the seal about much. Let's.

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Take a quick pause for a message from

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29:43

Okay, I want to say something if you are

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listening to this episode instead of watching it. Just.

29:48

Listening? Okay, I just read and resolved

29:50

nine emails in just a few seconds.

29:53

I didn't use my mouse, I didn't

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have to open up my calendar. Everything

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Leaving the keyboard. This. Is the

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if I see something I don't have time to reply to

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now but I want to get reminded of it. J.

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A M I T.

31:30

Now back to Fernando and a new skin! Things.

31:34

Like eating out a coffin to eat out when you're a

31:36

kid. Very

31:38

infrequently Yeah. You. Guys

31:40

pride in order appetizers from of know

31:42

oh you and a subway stuff Now

31:45

at subway flight Tuesday's getting better the

31:47

oh yeah I guess I have a

31:49

yeah I'd say I love it when

31:51

I even throughout the word advertised but

31:53

he just laughed at like so absurd

31:55

bad yeah as it of immigrants would

31:57

ever even consider Apis asked us again.

32:00

New. Country family. I get that. Is.

32:03

There a point at which.

32:07

You. Get to feel comfortable.

32:10

About ordering appetizers.

32:14

Well. I think whereas that. Point.

32:16

I mean. I

32:18

seem to be fair. I am at

32:20

that point. I don't think she is

32:22

at that point on. we had a

32:25

reasoned argument at a restaurant is about

32:27

this actually? so. To

32:29

use your were as part of my average

32:31

place is being able to spend money on

32:34

appetizers and not think twice about it. And

32:36

we do. That now we did a

32:38

pretty frequently now but we were at

32:40

a certain restaurant. It was right after

32:42

we had that budget conversation. Ah

32:44

the it. It had a friend with us and

32:46

I was like okay while the to the three

32:48

of us are gonna you know order these two

32:51

appetizers and he was over me as didn't you

32:53

just say we need to. Cut

32:55

down on our our budget for eating

32:57

out. We don't need appetizers. And

32:59

I that like. And. Though the sunni

33:02

mad because hard as my average life is

33:04

being able to afford the officers that I

33:06

could not as a child. On

33:08

bus. To him like it's a

33:10

small not that's. Not. Necessary.

33:13

But. I know that we can afford

33:16

it. It. Was

33:18

as a more frustration of like all of

33:20

the things I've held out on. Getting.

33:22

For myself over the years and for

33:24

example like video games or or things

33:26

and by do where I've I've told

33:29

myself you can do that and then

33:31

sit understanding now that like she's out

33:33

of position or and groom are making

33:35

our life to be able to do.

33:37

To. Be able to ordered an appetizer, but

33:39

not necessarily. Have struck

33:42

having had structured had previously to.

33:44

For. Me to gratify myself in that same way

33:46

by buying a video gamer. Buying. And

33:48

x box or whenever this. Is

33:50

are married right. Yes, Commoners have

33:53

been married for. Not

33:55

that long. To use

33:57

Ready To Live Right Now. Said.

34:00

You know, It's pretty

34:02

expensive area is areas such as

34:04

yeah. First of all,

34:06

I deeply understand the. Visceral

34:09

Nature. That appetizers

34:12

can present. For.

34:14

All three of us in this room. I also

34:16

can understand Fernando that. Is

34:19

feeling of how can you

34:21

justify that when I can

34:23

justify this. Am.

34:26

I understanding yes of your

34:28

prospectus. As

34:30

is it a read on like meal on the head. As.

34:33

A married couple. The.

34:36

Most critical thing when it comes your

34:39

money is to have a shared rich

34:41

life vision. And.

34:43

In your cases, if you were

34:45

both making fifty thousand dollars, Together,

34:48

you'd be happy to make a lotta

34:50

trade offs. I want to do this,

34:52

but we can't. I want to do that while we

34:54

chat. With the fact is, you

34:56

both make a lot more than that. Like.

34:59

To have a high savings rate and to

35:01

order appetizers. He

35:03

did you both. So. We know

35:05

it's not the numbers. Something.

35:08

Else. Are you know

35:11

what? That's a good question. I want to

35:13

save less so I can send more of

35:15

A and. What would that change

35:17

for your family? Ah, I

35:19

think I'll give my sister a lot of freedom

35:21

it would allow her to. If

35:23

you do whatever you want to move out or.

35:26

Maybe get a better car like whatever it

35:28

is. Oh neat, You don't know? Not

35:31

one hundred percent. I'd say a I know that

35:33

I know for a fact that she spent at

35:35

least as much as I do. That annoys me

35:38

that I can't help that. She. Worked

35:40

to. Yes, she very successful.

35:42

She's part of a c make a

35:44

lot of money, He. Has a relatively

35:46

she does. Oh is he asking

35:48

you? Are you to pay more? Not.

35:51

A think he ever done that. But.

35:54

Like I don't want to even. Make

35:57

her feel that needs to be in that type of business.

36:00

What you need to ask? brow? Oh. Okay,

36:03

and what about with your

36:05

relationship hear? Your. Marriage. Like.

36:08

When she's like i want to go play sports

36:10

to do this thing I want and and pay

36:13

whatever the fears or go out to eat only

36:15

do it like as our get new clothes and

36:17

do it like absolutely spend. Even if

36:19

it takes away from something that had budgeted

36:21

for myself with my technology, budget or anything

36:24

like that, I don't care. I would rather

36:26

you live life experiences. Then.

36:28

Like me having me putting myself over

36:31

your head. ah when it

36:33

comes to going out you the again with we

36:35

don't go to very expensive restaurants will like a

36:37

type of place or we lot but similarly to

36:39

me saying thirty dollars on that till he just

36:42

the bible. As as you thing

36:44

but like and eyes on a video game

36:46

like I getting Xavier and I can do

36:48

that regardless of if I'm happy. That for.

36:51

Hundreds. Of hours. Ah it is. It

36:53

seems like a super was tossed. When.

36:56

You get to come into this like I

36:58

hear you. Putting. Your parents first that you're

37:00

putting your sister for see the she has ask

37:02

for and you herself a lot of money I

37:04

hear you saying I do scully. Do.

37:06

Whatever you want, even if it takes away

37:08

from my technology budget. Windy. You

37:10

get to see what you want. Psychological.

37:14

Like it hurts me a lot. To. Try

37:16

and do that like it makes it hurts

37:18

you to spend because. I just

37:21

feel like I'm completely wasting their money because

37:23

of his average reviews over I'm Screwed. Wow,

37:27

that's so funny because when I buy something, I'd

37:29

literally do not think about the return. period. Really?

37:33

Know. He has always

37:35

been the one to tell me.

37:38

Yes, and it and I have

37:40

always been the one that has

37:42

since. The Spending. So.

37:45

It's to hear that he. Has

37:47

so much anxiety over things

37:49

like that. I. Knew it

37:51

to be true by it's sad to hear it

37:54

like that. Usually.

37:56

When we see people who struggle to

37:58

spend on themselves. But.

38:01

Openly spend on others. It's women.

38:03

Specifically. Mom's I'm really glad to

38:05

be able to talk to Fernando today

38:07

because this point in a typical example,

38:09

What I notice and what connects with

38:11

me personally is the struggled to express

38:14

when he really wants. I find that

38:16

to be true in my own life

38:18

and sometimes in my own relationship. I

38:20

was never really taught how to connect with

38:22

my emotions, how to ask for what I

38:24

want. and I think that's true for a

38:26

lot of men. Personally,

38:29

When it comes to money, I don't love

38:31

people who are only selfless with their money.

38:34

As. Because it's easy to only play

38:36

one know with money this is what

38:38

you see when you have hyper fuga

38:40

least as who save and save and

38:43

are totally unable to spend the actually

38:45

consider it a virtue. Here.

38:47

We have Fernando who can give all his

38:49

money to others, but he struggles to spend

38:52

it on himself. He also struggled

38:54

to understand how money as investing actually

38:56

work. Neither of which are part

38:58

of a healthy relationship with money. And

39:01

I said i do it a try to encourage

39:03

him and tell him like logically, we have the

39:06

money. You don't need a seal that way. Even

39:09

this year in our he was saying

39:11

oh, I'm going to be spending on

39:13

whatever two thousand dollars on a new

39:15

monitor for his computer. He's very into

39:17

computers. That's one of his biggest passes.

39:20

I'd. Sign. Hulton logically

39:22

think about of, well, it's yes, it's two thousand

39:24

dollars with acid, this much money over this many

39:26

nuns, and also you're going to use it for

39:28

this in I'm. Curious. Like

39:31

we have the money you can spend it. I.

39:34

Know that he doesn't think of that, that they. Do.

39:37

You think that. He's. Confused

39:39

about the numbers.

39:44

Know. It's. Just a necessity.

39:46

He remembered that the. Change.

39:48

Of receives price of when he

39:51

was ten. Like what? Else is

39:53

that is shocking to me that he

39:55

remembered when it lands. And sixty cents. The

39:57

seventy five cents. Same

40:00

thing I think still has an arbitrary number to

40:02

said that he can't go over but we make

40:04

so. Much for the. So

40:06

much more than his family made when

40:08

he was ten. You.

40:11

Are roughly seventh or eighth grade. You.

40:13

Had to. Help start taking over

40:15

with the family finances. Fernando. Be.

40:18

He said something so interesting you said

40:20

I wanted to. Extricate

40:22

myself from the family or relieve

40:24

them of having to pay for

40:27

me. Fernando.

40:29

That sounds like. You consider

40:31

yourself a burden to your family.

40:35

He I mean from a financial perspective I

40:37

did coming from a religion like Silica way

40:39

Canada so countries were all just pretty much

40:41

paid for like there's certain safe enough for

40:43

you. When I finally got to do year

40:45

and I'm applying to colleges my so that

40:47

on with my do you have saved the

40:49

was literally one Congress does not be so

40:51

we've been as like almost like how my

40:53

going to get it is a duty to

40:55

get all right now they got sick. If

40:58

you grew up with immigrant parents, You.

41:01

Just get. You. Get with

41:03

Fernando is see the immigrant experience is

41:05

something that cannot be replicated unless you

41:07

went through with. Children.

41:10

Of immigrants are told to work

41:12

hard harder than anyone else. I

41:14

personally spent hours practicing from a

41:16

bright yellow spelling bee book. My.

41:18

Indian friend used to read a book

41:20

called Rapid Math Tricks a books even

41:22

brought to college with him. This

41:25

is the experience of many children of

41:27

immigrants who know they have to work

41:29

incredibly hard to make it in a

41:31

culture that their parents moved to. And.

41:34

Did not fully understand. I'm

41:37

not even mentioning language barriers, cultural differences.

41:39

How kids school will complain your family's

41:41

food smells bad or make fun of

41:43

your name or skin color. Those.

41:46

Are part of the immigrant experience in

41:48

America To. As if we

41:50

want to share that if you did not

41:53

grow up as a child of immigrants, you

41:55

might not realize that and entire world exists

41:57

right around you. But it's real and for

41:59

now. Though knows real and a noose.

42:01

God knows it's real because they've lived

42:04

it. And so have a. A.

42:06

Me that in my mind, who ever is how I

42:08

go there even when I go back to visit I'm

42:11

a burden because my mom has the highest food for.

42:14

And so. When. You go

42:16

back look at an issue has face

42:18

she seeing something will come to you

42:21

in a second discuss. So now when

42:23

you go back, none of those purchase

42:25

decisions are subject to the same level

42:27

of scrutiny. That you make

42:29

for yourself at home. Not. One.

42:32

Friend: Why? Because

42:34

you are still paying back your

42:37

family. Or know I've

42:39

I've pretty much always thought that of

42:41

myself like I've I've been at like

42:43

understood that I. Was. Like

42:45

in my mind, I have a burden and I didn't

42:47

want to be and I want to ensure that I

42:49

can do whatever I can to ensure my mom and

42:52

sister are happy. Can

42:54

I say something nice? Asked about this.

42:59

Supposed. To mister feel similarly.

43:02

That being a burden and

43:04

I think it's specifically because

43:06

they feel. As they

43:08

are the ones that lock and mom

43:10

into the life that she has. As.

43:13

Are they still of domestic violence

43:15

as a stay at home? mom?

43:18

As now a device say. That

43:20

is working. A

43:22

minimum wage job? I.

43:25

Think that they both. Field.

43:27

And they are the ones that is that to her

43:29

and that they will spend the rest of their. Lives

43:32

Media to her. Well.

43:41

For single, say Fernando is I'm really sorry.

43:44

Mean, I'm sorry you had to grow

43:46

up like that. I'm sorry that you

43:48

had the unstable. Rental.

43:51

Structure. Hard enough. To

43:53

grow up as a kid. no matter where you grown up. It's

43:55

doubly hard to grow up his kids. Of

43:57

immigrant parents. It

44:00

on all the additional things. With.

44:02

Your mom, Your dad, Domestic

44:04

violence, Mental Illness. I'm

44:07

really sorry. Had to go. To.

44:12

And happens his life. You.

44:15

Chose something. As so

44:17

rare. Which. Is you said? I'm

44:19

gonna become a provider for this fam.

44:23

Number One year. Now for five

44:25

years. For. The rest of my life.

44:28

And you told me I'll give them anything they

44:30

ever need. I can be in the poorhouse, but

44:32

they never will. So.

44:40

I'm almost speechless because I hardly ever see

44:43

something like this. A

44:45

moved because. It's

44:47

incredibly generous. And

44:51

still. I

44:53

want to help you live. Your.

44:56

Richland. I

44:59

suspect. That's what brings us

45:01

here today. Yeah. Absolutely.

45:06

This is all a lot to take

45:08

on for any one person, especially to

45:10

take on alone. I wanted to mention

45:12

that in most immigrant cultures, the idea

45:14

of therapy is not really a concept,

45:16

certainly not as popular as it is

45:19

in the west. I mentioned to Fernando

45:21

that I hope he will see a

45:23

therapist, and I genuinely hope he does.

45:26

Now if we're looking at it from a thirty thousand

45:28

and foods, you. I

45:30

would you describe this relationship you

45:33

both have with money to bed?

45:36

Fernando and I able to move out

45:38

by ourselves in our twenties. And

45:40

live in ad for disappointment in

45:42

Detroit. As I said, we were

45:45

able to still. Spend.

45:47

Money on a family while you're doing that. And then

45:49

on top of that, we moved to one of the

45:51

highest cost of living. Cities in

45:53

the Us we have. The

45:56

best of our either possibly think either

45:58

possibly. Thank God for our. Age, But

46:00

I'm quite proud of all of these

46:02

things that we have accomplished. I think.

46:05

That in many ways were living average

46:07

life. Like when we discuss how we

46:09

want to live and I'm talking day

46:11

to day I think we are already

46:14

doing that so so in my mind

46:16

that the freedom heart that comes into

46:18

it what we've been able to actually

46:20

accomplish with our money. But then we

46:23

take the ten steps back whenever we

46:25

discuss what we need to improve on

46:27

and. And then we have

46:29

these conversations about, you know, how much are

46:31

we actually spending months month on groceries or

46:34

whatever it? You've. Accomplished a

46:36

lot. right? Side.

46:38

In helping family pride in where where you live

46:40

side in the way you live all right and

46:42

just. Doing well. That's and you

46:44

should be proud. But.

46:47

When. You're doing this well. Often

46:50

I just wanted to be a little

46:52

bit easier. Bright.

46:55

Blue that look at the looks on both

46:57

your fists like he was just a little

46:59

easier. We could just. Save.

47:02

A little bit more easily if we could be

47:04

just a little bit more generous with family. If

47:07

we could have better conversations just

47:09

a little bit more easily. As

47:12

it. At

47:15

that's all I want our you. Absolutely.

47:20

I guess I just always felt that

47:23

my life leading us in the ways

47:25

I have in the past in terms

47:27

of training, a budget, sticking to our

47:30

savings goals, Like

47:32

I'm the reason. Or. I'm

47:34

a lot of the reason that we are able

47:36

to live the life that we leave now. I

47:39

said Fernando So generous with everything that

47:41

he does. And he very rarely

47:43

tells me no. Bias: He doesn't

47:46

plan for the long term whereas I

47:48

do so I feel like. Why

47:51

would I stop doing it? I don't know. If

47:53

is working and. You're

47:55

both happy with how it's working. Nuts

47:59

Part. Oh yeah that part

48:01

the so let's say you had just

48:03

produce destruction. Then it would be easy for

48:05

me. I'd be like look is it working? You're like not. It's sucks

48:07

I be a cool ethics in. Business. Case.

48:10

What? You've Done has actually been very

48:12

helpful. But.

48:15

It's also not quite serving you

48:17

in the way that you want

48:19

it. That's prefer. Okay, and if

48:22

we fast forward Fifteen, twenty thirty

48:24

years, As. Seen a play our

48:26

and I think Fernando has as well on

48:28

and think I wrote in the application specifically

48:30

that I am very. Us Aid of

48:33

the Funny My mother. In

48:36

controlling everything. And

48:38

driving my partner away and I'm

48:40

very. Scared. Of

48:42

Fernando becoming his mother and letting

48:44

me do whatever I think is.

48:46

Necessary and then at the end of the day.

48:50

We don't agree and it's a huge

48:52

mess of a divorce Just like what

48:54

happened are bears. Fernando.

48:57

What Is it? On.

49:00

I think that. As she is

49:02

very. Enlightening me because I

49:05

didn't see myself going down that path.

49:07

but I'm like that's. That's

49:09

the first time I saw it. When I

49:11

perspective we have one person really wants to

49:13

control the budget and make sure everything's going

49:15

well and another person is very afraid to

49:17

spend and defiantly. Something to make

49:20

sure that any purchasing decisions makes sense.

49:23

From. A long term planning perspective.

49:27

Is deathly something I'd let go of? At

49:29

work. I. Can do that

49:31

When I come home I turn it off and

49:33

it's just like I do. I just wanted play

49:35

video games or hang out or like whatever else.

49:38

Because. I to I feel like I did

49:40

that work in a Cosby some it's but

49:42

searing you read that statement. Is

49:44

just like a open my eyes in just like

49:47

the most devastating we I did not realize that

49:49

is what I've Macys you could hold. As

49:53

really, really surprised me. I

49:56

think the to view fit together well when you

49:58

were. Teen: eighteen years

50:01

old when you got together and I

50:03

think they're probably there. Was. An.

50:05

Awesome! Skus and you both had

50:07

about your family structure and things like that. Rights

50:10

but. You're. Not

50:12

the same eighteen year old you were

50:14

back said. I mean, you

50:17

can you imagine going back and telling your

50:19

eighteen year old cells where you're living right

50:21

now. As Selena. I

50:24

as a bother all the time. It's

50:26

ridiculous. I am eternally

50:28

grateful for. Where

50:30

we have ended up through sheer

50:32

luck and less and what else?

50:34

duchess luck and work and were

50:36

actually. So. Both of those the

50:38

by the way thank you for saying that

50:40

luck played a suitable. yeah, absolutely and hard

50:43

work played a huge role. And.

50:45

That's that fried. That I

50:47

love seeing that that I was talking about that I see

50:49

in the to view. But. I

50:51

don't think those puzzle pieces are

50:53

the same today. They may have

50:55

fit together at eighteen. Shared.

50:59

Family trauma, immigrants into the

51:01

country. All that. Okay, Not.

51:04

Only do. You. Both change

51:06

mean those puzzle pieces are changing

51:08

shape. But. The way you to

51:11

fit together. Changes. In

51:14

so many relationships I talk

51:16

to the got married and

51:18

in one partner decided to

51:20

embark on some type of

51:22

self development. Juri could be

51:25

losing weight, fixing, finances, traveling

51:27

more, whatever, The other

51:29

one understandably, Might. Be interested.

51:31

And. As one partner goes down their

51:33

journey. The. Other becomes

51:36

increasingly disconnected, and in fact one

51:38

person may see the other actively

51:40

trying to prevent them from improving.

51:43

Personally, One of the key things

51:45

I was looking for in a partner

51:47

with someone who likes self development for

51:50

was into improving themselves. Not only is

51:52

it my business, I think that self

51:54

development allows for partners to grow and

51:56

to change which is a natural part

51:58

of life. Thankful that

52:00

my wife Cassandra loves self development.

52:04

Will. Be right back. And

52:06

yet we take the sponsors on

52:08

this show very seriously. were selective.

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53:29

back to the show. For.

53:31

Fernando and a new stuff. What

53:33

brought them together might not be

53:35

the most important parts of their

53:37

lives anymore. Effect: Where they are

53:39

today is vastly different. Been where

53:41

they are at age eighteen. I'm

53:43

not just talking about geographically or

53:45

financially, it's I'm talking about where

53:48

they are, who they are, My.

53:50

Question is: have they taken the time to

53:52

turn the page on their stories and they

53:54

actually sat down? And. Surveyed.

53:57

How far they've come and decided what they want the

53:59

next. After of their lives to be. Almost

54:02

certainly. No. Almost none of us do

54:04

this. I'll tell me understand where they

54:06

are Today I pulled up their numbers.

54:08

Here's what they added to their country

54:10

spending plan or see a speech. By

54:13

the way, as a reminder you can

54:15

download the Sea Is T template for

54:17

free at iwt.com/c S P. Their.

54:20

Assets and thousand dollars Investments:

54:22

Two hundred Fifty Three thousand

54:24

dollars Savings: A thousand dollars.

54:26

Zero debt for total net

54:28

worth of three hundred and

54:30

sixty four thousand dollars. Would.

54:33

You both think about that number. Of

54:36

crazy sounds imaginary is the three

54:38

The What? Crazy good, Crazy bad.

54:41

It's it's pretty good and it's feel like it's

54:44

not real that so much money. More money than

54:46

I ever thought we would ever be able to

54:48

ask. Do you believe that this is real? Yes,

54:51

You believe that you have access to this money.

54:54

Yeah. Does. It make you feel. Good.

54:56

To see it. But. Not the investments

54:58

which is the problem affects me. It's like

55:00

it's in a four o one k that

55:02

at Wheaton get taxed when or or roster

55:05

whatever else. That. I can access

55:07

when I retire in in my mind him

55:09

I'd probably go die before then like desks

55:11

that's useless to or it's an emergency that

55:13

I need to be able to access or

55:15

use. When do you think you're gonna die? Products.

55:19

Fifty five or something. Maybe

55:21

my mind? I think it was. By.

55:24

Fifty Five. I will have had to like take

55:26

care of my mom and my sister Like make

55:28

sure they're all good at that point. Like my

55:30

is really mean anything anymore. And

55:32

with understand like now that she's

55:35

in my life. I

55:37

put myself in a position of ensuring that

55:39

she's able to also be successful in live

55:41

healthy. wait til that point and. I.

55:43

Don't have any wants beyond that. As

55:46

a thing says defiant age to the he

55:48

thinks that his mom. Might. Not be

55:50

around any longer. And I

55:52

think. To him

55:54

that means. A birdie.

55:58

Is listed. As. They

56:00

need to. I

56:03

don't know be alive anymore since like he's

56:05

not, he does need to provide for someone

56:07

anymore. So. Like.

56:09

He's good, he's done. This is like a

56:11

very traditional you see this in Indian old

56:14

Indian movies is like a Sri Lankan thing

56:16

to your simply here to provide for everyone

56:18

else and you're not here for his isn't

56:20

a thing right? He does the word for

56:23

at don't know the word is coming to

56:25

my bedside. My. Body

56:27

is not important. I'm simply

56:29

here Lol Reply: Buddhist as

56:31

a as a very. Essence

56:35

and I we were atheists, but we are

56:37

culturally Buddhist, so that is very much a

56:39

part of how we are raised. It's

56:42

one thing, if you lived in Sri Lanka,

56:44

you were saying. I

56:46

could get that. For.

56:49

Use in San Diego consider

56:51

literally surrounded by the most

56:53

western of west beliefs. And

56:56

you still believe this, right? Yeah. And

56:58

okay, I'm not making fun of you.

57:00

I'm no lawyer I saw. Yeah, yeah

57:02

of I'm simply expressing my surprise. At.

57:07

At these beliefs which are

57:09

very different than. I

57:11

would encounter in ninety nine of it's a

57:14

hundred people on the street. Okay

57:17

or it's let's continue working down

57:20

or the numbers. Others

57:22

that can you read your combined.

57:25

Gross. Monthly income please.

57:27

Yes, Ah, the line. Gross monthly

57:30

income is twenty thousand five hundred

57:32

Rgb curator Seventy thousand dollars for

57:34

your household income. Or.

57:37

To think that. I

57:40

didn't go and it could be better. You.

57:42

To like thirty one years old, right? Yeah,

57:45

Thirty thirty one gets. Pretty. Good. How

57:47

can you to have exactly the same income?

57:49

That's what I want to know in the

57:51

past couple years. So when we were in

57:53

Detroit ah of and the pandemic as I

57:55

realized oh I can work from home on

57:57

and so I had asked my old job

57:59

as. I could continue working from home And they

58:01

had said no. So. Then I transition to

58:03

a new job as soon as he moved to

58:06

San Diego. pretty much on and then a year

58:08

after that I got a new job and so

58:10

I was just able to. Keep. Upping

58:12

my salaries in that way and a very

58:14

short period of time and on. I

58:16

use his salary to motivate me and now

58:19

we make the. Excess. Very

58:22

impressive. Great. So

58:24

you're making two or seventy key gross

58:26

living in San Diego. A

58:28

Will you do me a favor? I

58:30

get a lot of people online who

58:32

they say things like. If.

58:34

You make any to less than half

58:36

a million dollars in California. Is. Bro.

58:39

Bro. Can you please tell

58:42

everyone listening and watching? How's

58:44

life in California? on two hundred and

58:47

seventy thousand dollars years? A good. I.

58:49

Was great. It is. It is Asic.

58:53

So many on my losers do this thing where

58:55

they post fifteen comments about how it's impossible to

58:57

get by in New York or L A or

58:59

any big city making less than five hundred thousand

59:02

dollars. I'm like. Are you were that

59:04

literally millions of people make less than five hundred

59:06

thousand dollars in the city's do even know how

59:08

much it costs to live in these places? And

59:10

then I look at their profile photo as a

59:13

picture of a turnip. And. You realize

59:15

this person lives in the middle of

59:17

nowhere. They've never been to a big

59:19

city and they're basically just repeating the

59:21

same old anti big city fear mongering

59:23

that all the people around them safe,

59:25

who big see, so full of crime,

59:27

so scary, But also you need five

59:29

hundred thousand dollars to live there. How

59:31

am I a multimillionaire? more in touch

59:33

with people's incomes And these Alma tourists.

59:37

And is that what's this number here? Your fixed costs. Is.

59:40

T three percent. Or a very good.

59:42

For. Ya think about that number. Pretty good. Or

59:45

and away smiling. It

59:47

is solid but in understood minded should be

59:49

lower so we can have a higher david.

59:52

Great Oh also will get to that are

59:54

it's a twenty two percent on your housing

59:56

fine. I have no comments that the high

59:58

cost of living area. right? You're

1:00:00

renting great. Car. Payment is.

1:00:03

Or. Hundred thirty dollars Fine Debt

1:00:06

zero. Great. Groceries.

1:00:09

What? Do I care? I don't care about any. It's great.

1:00:11

I have no comments. If you're a fifty three percent, I

1:00:14

have no notes. Savings. What

1:00:16

do you say? Any skyward numbers as. Esteemed

1:00:19

percent. Yes as Hillary and

1:00:21

I'll rephrase and say i think learn best

1:00:23

answer to I have to find your message

1:00:25

because you think that investing is like gambling.

1:00:28

And you think that if you invest, you don't really have

1:00:30

access to the money? Says. It's. In

1:00:32

a retirement account and you're going to be dead anyway.

1:00:36

Precisely okay. or. And. Then

1:00:38

let's go down to your go free spending the

1:00:40

last category hear. What? Do we

1:00:42

see here are Fernando. Send. Percent

1:00:44

in December. Accurate sixteen sixty six per

1:00:46

month. And who's got. Either

1:00:49

says I'm I love the confidence as

1:00:51

get I believe I actually Billie. I

1:00:53

hardly ever believe anyone when they come

1:00:56

on. it affects okay like I'm not

1:00:58

expecting total precision in this case. I

1:01:00

believe every last number on this Cst

1:01:03

well done. So far away as well.oath

1:01:05

Of Office. Job. And

1:01:09

he still was. What Is your reaction? You. An

1:01:12

isolated is like. Thought.

1:01:15

That a on the tests that I miss with easy. If

1:01:20

you were looking for my approval, You

1:01:23

have it. But I think the most important

1:01:25

thing that you're gonna realize is that. Your.

1:01:28

Reflexes Not about my approval. Neon.

1:01:32

You're. Rich life is not even about your

1:01:34

approval and hipster. It is about

1:01:36

the two of you. Coming up

1:01:38

with a vision together and then

1:01:40

implementing it together. Have

1:01:43

you had to critique the Csp? As

1:01:46

we know the things that are great about almost everything.

1:01:51

That matter, I

1:01:53

think from of the carpet in perspective like I

1:01:55

would like to get a car some point currently

1:01:57

the car payments or she goes where it's like.

1:02:00

Maintenance. It's really just within the year

1:02:02

I expect Spend several thousand on fixing

1:02:04

up my current event in the best

1:02:06

safe because I very much value my

1:02:08

car. I've always looked at as something

1:02:10

I could sell if I need you

1:02:12

to meet your my family was gonna

1:02:14

was the arena or said what what

1:02:16

What? What? Were we talking about

1:02:18

having a car? That backup asset know.

1:02:23

Fernando. You realize you're not fourteen years

1:02:25

old? With you

1:02:28

know, debating on a sixty five

1:02:30

cent pieces pieces? I

1:02:33

like. that's how I've always looked at it.

1:02:35

You are doing that. Know Okay,

1:02:37

cause I'm sitting here looking at a total

1:02:39

net worth from a young couple. Of.

1:02:42

Three hundred, Sixty four Thousand dollars. And

1:02:44

I just spent five minutes. Tell you all the things that

1:02:46

are amazing for the best He has peace I've seen. In

1:02:49

any of my conversations on his podcast and I

1:02:51

ask what would you do to change it and

1:02:53

your first comment was. I.

1:02:57

Want to maintain my. Car.

1:02:59

Because if I need to, I could

1:03:01

sell it. To

1:03:04

see what you're doing here. I still

1:03:06

looking at everything from up. With.

1:03:08

Our. Perspective: Where I

1:03:11

do because money scarcity Perspective:

1:03:13

Guess. You're. Playing defense. And

1:03:16

you're gonna play defense the rest of your life. You.

1:03:19

Make eleven thousand, two hundred fifty dollars a month. Or.

1:03:23

Operating at a different level, you. A.

1:03:25

Case in currently is five hundred bucks a month.

1:03:28

A six thousand bucks a year. Are. You

1:03:30

taking six thousand dollars a year of vacations. We

1:03:32

are currently not too young. Successful People

1:03:35

making two hundred seventy thousand dollars is

1:03:37

yeah. You can take a vacation right

1:03:39

now and I'm. Maybe

1:03:44

one day financially successful enough to

1:03:46

take a vacation? What do you

1:03:48

say? Hopefully.

1:03:51

I think that's what I really need to better understand

1:03:53

about myself and like. Guess. Is

1:03:56

that? Doing. Some

1:03:58

things that are spending. Where'd

1:04:00

larger spending goals? That

1:04:02

I have always aspired to. guess. For

1:04:04

example, I got. I've always loved driving.

1:04:07

And. Having a dream car though he didn't have the

1:04:09

one to do. But as I've gotten older,

1:04:11

it's become very hard to prove it up. Rationalize

1:04:13

it. Was a car you want to get one day.

1:04:16

I. Did out to the risk of before I

1:04:18

like we gotta move to San Diego I could

1:04:20

get a sixty five black wing which is like

1:04:22

a one hundred and five thousand I car for

1:04:25

brand is that seats a Cadillac? yeah I so

1:04:27

fine as and then she said whoa we can

1:04:29

actually get a weekend a plan for it and

1:04:31

your reaction was. Nothing.

1:04:35

I could now be hundred five. Qaeda could

1:04:37

go to your family, right? right? Okay, so.

1:04:39

This. At zero some

1:04:41

perspective. You've. Heard about

1:04:44

this for a zero sum just or insulin.

1:04:46

I get this: somebody else loses. Okay,

1:04:49

you could go through life. With.

1:04:51

That perspective. Sexy.

1:04:54

Very convenient for a new Scottish. She

1:04:56

goes well as snakes. Zero based budgeting

1:04:58

really easy as that I know was

1:05:00

under five. Say goes. Beautiful. I'm

1:05:03

Alicia, What is your critique? I'm gonna

1:05:05

put this up on screen here. Oh,

1:05:08

you critique if you had to. She's

1:05:17

like critique this my masterpiece

1:05:20

touched. Our

1:05:23

no I don't know where she's illegal.

1:05:25

so confused like what what is is

1:05:27

worthy. How can you critique this. Fernando.

1:05:30

Doesn't have a company sponsored four one

1:05:32

K plan. Which is

1:05:34

why I wanted him.

1:05:37

To do like that post? That's it. I'm sitting

1:05:39

ducks little bit more than I do because I

1:05:41

get to contribute to my foreign key. Players.

1:05:45

On third for on. I.

1:05:49

Would. Want him to invest? Yeah.

1:05:52

With. Each of you told me you would change

1:05:54

here. Are the

1:05:57

bone actually make you feel better? Or bring you closer

1:05:59

together? And.

1:06:01

If they look surprised. Yeah.

1:06:06

It might make me feel better.

1:06:09

I little bit. But

1:06:11

then we get movies. Your sister said,

1:06:13

you know why you get into arguments.

1:06:17

Because. I thought really compromise as to me

1:06:19

getting my was. Which is common.

1:06:23

Right, I saw them. Your screening interview. You

1:06:25

both. Debate. This.

1:06:27

Or that and then often you get your

1:06:29

way right there. And. More.

1:06:32

Importantly, When. You

1:06:35

invest. More. Money.

1:06:39

I know you see it. With.

1:06:41

Compound Interest and Rule of Seventy Two

1:06:43

and as Wr in all kinds of

1:06:45

these terms, I get that. But

1:06:49

he doesn't see it that way. In fact, the

1:06:51

you know how Fernando would see you taking an

1:06:53

extra. Twenty five thousand dollars And investing

1:06:55

money? How would he see that describe it In

1:06:57

a word? Currently.

1:07:00

Has gambling. Gambling is

1:07:02

one loss, just that money's

1:07:04

being taken away from. Right

1:07:07

hundred or. One. Hundred percent.

1:07:10

I could be dry. I could have

1:07:12

been driving my dream car years ago,

1:07:14

but instead it's going into my retirement.

1:07:18

Hopefully I live that long. You put quotes around

1:07:20

retirement as if is not a real word. That's

1:07:22

a real good. Retirement is real. Yes,

1:07:25

Yes, it is real. I

1:07:28

find it. I find money on

1:07:30

his innocence to be late. Is.

1:07:33

Treated as a bit like it's almost like

1:07:35

the root of all evil. There's so much

1:07:37

bad that can happen because of money, and

1:07:39

there's so much waste because of money. I

1:07:41

don't want to be that guy in a

1:07:44

mad car when I'm old because this for

1:07:46

people like I don't like that typos. Over.

1:07:50

Spending like that's that's one of the things

1:07:52

that by was coming from where I have

1:07:54

like having lived in many other places, there's

1:07:56

a lot of issues I have with the

1:07:58

way that America is that a. And

1:08:00

so on for it's citizens. Why

1:08:02

don't provide enough? In terms of are.

1:08:05

Seeking. A for old people. I agree

1:08:07

a break my heart every time ago

1:08:09

to sort I see someone like seven

1:08:11

years old are working like an old

1:08:13

grandma my mom's you should not be

1:08:15

and you need to be living your

1:08:17

life outside the I agree with you

1:08:19

but if you get something you believe

1:08:21

it means someone else center. And.

1:08:24

You don't want to live in a world where

1:08:26

you have something that somebody else does not. A

1:08:29

Fair. Does

1:08:32

not like that's not what I was brought up. Boss is

1:08:34

the first. Be.

1:08:37

while discussing like ah,

1:08:40

I. Don't want to end up having to

1:08:43

work at Walmart at age seventy eight? And

1:08:45

that is why I want you to

1:08:47

open up. An. Ira and I

1:08:49

want to fund it right? and his got. Absolutely

1:08:52

two ways of looking at my.

1:08:55

You roll up as easy as it looks

1:08:57

interesting way. But he looking at this and

1:08:59

realized know we're both sitting the exact same

1:09:01

thing from completely different angles of me say

1:09:03

politically from investments A from a News is

1:09:05

precisely she's like why want to add investments

1:09:08

and. As. The amount we

1:09:10

will be adding or subtracting is some

1:09:12

of my dream right? Like that could

1:09:14

be the car payment that I could

1:09:16

be having if I wanted to live.

1:09:18

That type of like a weight is

1:09:20

completely bonded by taking away from that

1:09:22

specific categories. Here's what

1:09:24

I see happening here: Fernando and

1:09:26

a new skill have vastly different

1:09:29

perspectives on money. I'm talking completely

1:09:31

different. See wants to invest aggressively?

1:09:33

See as a need for control.

1:09:36

See. Wants more. He

1:09:39

thinks investing is gambling. He.

1:09:42

Should give all of his money to his family.

1:09:44

He's gonna die at fifty five. Oh and also

1:09:46

he wants one hundred and five thousand dollar Catalan.

1:09:49

Is not a very coherent viewpoint.

1:09:52

But. Guess what? Most of us have incoherent

1:09:54

viewpoints about money so I don't mind

1:09:56

of question their faces Us now is

1:09:58

what would be. With their C

1:10:00

E S P. Asking a couple

1:10:03

to critique their own spending. That

1:10:05

Csp, but spending is basically pointless. To the

1:10:07

all say the same thing. Well, we should

1:10:09

try to eat out less. The. Average

1:10:11

person has no idea where they're spending money.

1:10:14

they have no idea how they're spending is

1:10:16

related to their savings rate which is related

1:10:18

to their investments which of Calgary based on

1:10:20

a seven percent reverse. You. See

1:10:22

what I mean? Asking the average person

1:10:24

to critique their on spending is like

1:10:26

asking a golden retriever to critique their

1:10:28

exercise regimen is is pointless. But.

1:10:31

Seer. We. Have a

1:10:33

couple that has a C S P. And

1:10:36

at least one partner deeply understands the

1:10:38

numbers. They could invest more. They could

1:10:40

invest less in their critique. They could

1:10:43

put more towards a vacation. There are

1:10:45

so many things to they could do.

1:10:48

A when I asked the question. I'm

1:10:50

getting nowhere. So I decided to

1:10:52

take a different approach. And when

1:10:55

I did, suddenly I stumbled

1:10:57

into something fascinating. From.

1:10:59

Fernand. I.

1:11:01

Think it's more momentous if I need

1:11:03

to have, because I know I don't

1:11:06

have a healthy, realistic perspective on investments

1:11:08

in Amanda. How much of it's you

1:11:10

think? your perspective on investing in America

1:11:12

as based around fear. Of

1:11:14

one hundred. I've been hearing

1:11:17

a since I started my side into doesn't Floor.

1:11:20

I would get commenters, particularly around

1:11:22

O H O nine. Saying.

1:11:24

I'm investing is dead.

1:11:27

It's. Never gonna last arm. Things

1:11:30

are different now right? and. If.

1:11:32

You basically started investing the day my book

1:11:35

came out. March. Two Thousand And Nine. You.

1:11:38

Would have had a hundreds and hundreds and hundreds

1:11:40

of thousands of dollars you'd be doing extremely well.

1:11:43

They. Didn't understand how investments work.

1:11:45

They didn't understand the literature.

1:11:47

They didn't understand that seven

1:11:49

percent returns have persisted through

1:11:51

wars and recessions and inflation.

1:11:54

They simply felt this fear viscerally.

1:11:57

And. They decided not to invest at a cost

1:11:59

them. The bubbly millions of dollars over

1:12:01

there left. I.

1:12:04

Could use you seen it actually I think

1:12:06

healthy click in my mind in a way

1:12:09

that and discussing it to me a as

1:12:11

the last decade as not in that like.

1:12:16

I. Did you has a visceral fear

1:12:18

and like getting my mind. I'm. The

1:12:22

features on sir I don't know what's gonna

1:12:24

happen and selection I don't know what's gonna

1:12:27

happen cetera. like. A What I

1:12:29

was. Telling her and she's very

1:12:31

well educated on this it is more on

1:12:33

like I was he like and the our

1:12:35

politics or whatever else know like a were

1:12:37

coming close the fiscal cliff every like few

1:12:39

months. Our eight years ago or the Us

1:12:42

is credit rating was downgraded for the first

1:12:44

time ever and abetting increased our interest on

1:12:46

bonds and things like that. I'm like we

1:12:48

don't know what's happening with in the political

1:12:50

system and things to get city I don't

1:12:52

know what that means in terms of investing

1:12:55

but what I but I know is I'm

1:12:57

putting money into a system that could potentially

1:12:59

be. Ah screw mean the future

1:13:01

and I'd rather. Use that money

1:13:03

now. So brave, Live and do

1:13:06

things Then. Put. It into the

1:13:08

system. They don't know what's gonna happen tomorrow, but your

1:13:10

point? And I think you mean really? well? If.

1:13:14

For a summer has invest their money

1:13:16

two thousand and nine. When I was

1:13:18

game traumatized by the financial markets and

1:13:20

it would be completed his lifestyle. But

1:13:23

when I tell him that investing. In

1:13:25

our market will still get us returns.

1:13:28

And. That has been proven over the long term.

1:13:30

I mean, he. He. Brings up with

1:13:32

me that some of the things that we

1:13:34

are facing today has like we've never experienced

1:13:36

before. So. A slight code for

1:13:38

this time. it's different. I

1:13:42

don't know I do. I want someone else to

1:13:44

talk to him about this because. I don't

1:13:46

listen to the news every single day so maybe

1:13:48

I don't know what I'm talking about. I? Okay,

1:13:50

oh, let's talk about. It. So. What

1:13:53

does your alternative? Fernando If

1:13:55

you genuinely believe that. Is.

1:13:57

Gonna be some type of fiscal cliff citizen to go

1:13:59

wrong as. When you're okay. In.

1:14:01

January I would be would be spending it

1:14:03

now and. Living. More opulent

1:14:06

life for like have a better

1:14:08

term on. Then saving for an

1:14:10

arbitrary feature. If we have money, we better

1:14:12

spend a fast because we don't know what's

1:14:14

coming around to more physicists as Bagley look

1:14:17

at a news because face yeah. Both okay,

1:14:19

yeah. Guess

1:14:21

what? Good. News if you want to spend

1:14:23

a little bit more money today. You. Can.

1:14:27

That's not a problem, You. Want to live a

1:14:29

more opulent life? Your.

1:14:32

Guilt free spending is ten percent. So.

1:14:34

If you want to live a little bit more opulent, we can

1:14:37

make that happen. No. Problem. When.

1:14:40

I'm really hearing you say is I

1:14:42

don't. Fundamentally. Believe.

1:14:45

In. This investment stuff. I. Want

1:14:47

to spend it without having to think or said it's

1:14:49

a my family or whatever. Because sooner

1:14:52

rather than later, this whole game

1:14:54

is over. And.

1:14:57

None. Of this stuff really matters. Yeah, I think

1:14:59

a bit. and I'm like really, I mean.

1:15:02

To be say. Watching like what

1:15:04

happened during January six through the cracks. Me

1:15:06

as an immigrant we stuff that would they

1:15:08

were being. I pulled her out for meeting

1:15:10

A. We sat there. And. Then as

1:15:12

an immigrant, I remember thinking wheeler.

1:15:15

Like our parents struggled to get here. And.

1:15:17

I'm watching it burn and. Now

1:15:20

people are covering up. Would have been in

1:15:22

there like it wasn't that bad and. I'm.

1:15:25

Like this is how it starts is

1:15:27

no happens. I was seven everywhere else,

1:15:29

right? and so in my mind I'm

1:15:31

like we are stuffed, the way we

1:15:33

are, steps away from it happening again.

1:15:35

And if that does happen and we

1:15:37

do lose everything. What

1:15:40

do I have it into the day? What Do you have?

1:15:44

To few dollars in my savings account.

1:15:47

As well let's is say that up.

1:15:49

You. Get on the next plane to somewhere. Or

1:15:53

do you have it's not a few dollars in

1:15:55

your savings account? What? I currently cz of three

1:15:57

hundred sixty four thousand dollars of network that's liquid

1:15:59

fast, That's.

1:16:02

A lot of money, I

1:16:05

guess in my mind I think that's fundamentally misunderstanding

1:16:07

of what is a need to have something and

1:16:09

like our invest in a cat for some savings.

1:16:11

For example, I got a Roth Four one K.

1:16:14

The did best in the South Park is that

1:16:16

goes down somewhere to. Two. Thousand and

1:16:18

Eight right is it would be at

1:16:20

twenty thirty percent reduction but maybe within

1:16:22

that large apologize I'm whatever percentage reduction

1:16:24

in value and really the only thing

1:16:27

quickly sit down would be my Cv.

1:16:29

Why? You can sell your stock study. How.

1:16:33

Much of this you really know? Very notice

1:16:36

Investments very little. Immensely.

1:16:39

While. I'm not trying to dismiss your fears. If

1:16:41

you have a bully something's gonna happen. I think is

1:16:43

get educated about it's at the have a plan for

1:16:45

it. Yes I'm all for that. But.

1:16:48

He just said to things that are. Factual.

1:16:51

Things You can check in like two minutes. Yeah, this

1:16:54

is actually very true. Is it

1:16:56

possible that you are using what

1:16:58

is going on politically? As.

1:17:00

Yet another way to avoid money.

1:17:04

I think so at in as a really good point. And

1:17:06

phrasing it as like a very quickly as

1:17:08

is only thing the mature enough wrong with

1:17:10

this so the a very quickly just like

1:17:12

read up on it and understand but everytime

1:17:14

victims of a might. Break. It

1:17:16

down for me and if you like what is

1:17:19

what does this mean Because I don't want to

1:17:21

even spend it busy. Miss the dry. Because

1:17:24

it feels it, feels air. Is

1:17:26

still really feels like really nerve wracking to.

1:17:29

Think. Of putting my head back in that space. I

1:17:32

don't know for nanos agreements me

1:17:35

just a little too easily. What?

1:17:37

I'm saying should theoretically rock

1:17:40

him at his core because

1:17:42

it directly contradicts and entire

1:17:44

narrative. And he's created. And

1:17:47

held for decades. The.

1:17:49

Narrative: that money is evil and geopolitics

1:17:51

mean the end of our economy, that

1:17:53

he's just spend all of his money.

1:17:56

And with one sentence: I

1:17:58

point out the logical flaw and suddenly he goes.

1:18:00

I think that's a really good point. I'm

1:18:03

just not by. Nobody changes

1:18:05

and entire logical apparatus

1:18:07

that fast. What?

1:18:09

I can tell is that Fernando has

1:18:11

created a story to make sense of

1:18:13

a world that's not in his control.

1:18:15

He hasn't really have any proof. In

1:18:17

fact a new school has actually tried

1:18:19

to show him proof of just the

1:18:21

opposite. But. As humans,

1:18:23

we love our stores

1:18:26

and stories from prove

1:18:28

almost every day. A

1:18:31

problem here, of course, is that his

1:18:33

story is costing him. Costing

1:18:35

him satisfaction, his relationships costing him

1:18:37

a financial future, even costing him

1:18:40

the ability to spend more money

1:18:42

today. It's helping

1:18:44

me and from my understanding that I was struggling

1:18:46

with. Thinking I could be back in

1:18:48

high places? I bet he's been looking at money

1:18:50

and been like we don't have enough. Or

1:18:53

like looking at it. Looking at the

1:18:55

same as he of and the as he you

1:18:57

see like this is an amazing. Man

1:18:59

is wild to me right? like we came.

1:19:02

From almost nothing the two of us to

1:19:04

realize I've done so little to help or

1:19:06

is an of and and like I love

1:19:09

learning as the. De. Facto

1:19:11

Friggin like read up on how

1:19:13

these things where. Where. Would

1:19:15

take second this and have. Something.

1:19:18

To do. You think your mom would want

1:19:20

you to feel bad about money for your whole life?

1:19:22

Absolutely not that something she tells me all the time.

1:19:26

Providers. Inevitably,

1:19:30

Want. To smooth over things

1:19:32

for everyone around them. They

1:19:35

often want to provide. Reassurance,

1:19:39

Instead of. Clarity.

1:19:43

It's. Gonna be okay. You do that since. You.

1:19:45

Were wet five years old. I

1:19:47

have loved elders older but yeah but

1:19:49

he on. Long. Time ago. A

1:19:54

community that for your wife when it comes to money.

1:19:57

The she takes care of me is that

1:19:59

and. I Karma. He'd be

1:20:01

scared me and every other way we've

1:20:03

talked about how his generous when. He

1:20:05

said that he doesn't feel like he's helping

1:20:08

me in this place. I don't fault him

1:20:10

in any way. This is the role that

1:20:12

I have also stepped up to do because.

1:20:15

He does so much else in our lives.

1:20:17

I mean she's I don't step foot in

1:20:19

the kitchen because he does all of that

1:20:21

and he's great at it and he loves

1:20:24

doing that for us and t it. You

1:20:27

know, provides a lot of mental stability that. I.

1:20:29

Need and I didn't have at

1:20:32

home. She's so generous in every

1:20:34

way. not as financially. The

1:20:36

reason that this is so important. Is

1:20:39

that? Is the two

1:20:41

of you can not. Come.

1:20:44

To a shared vision. On money.

1:20:47

including. Investments, saving

1:20:49

spending family a big

1:20:51

stuff. If. You kick

1:20:54

come to an agreement on that you

1:20:56

would constantly. Be. Perpetuating the pattern

1:20:58

that you currently have. You.

1:21:01

See how the way that you have

1:21:03

both entrenched your views of money? Make.

1:21:06

It very difficult for the two of you to come

1:21:08

together. Yeah. As

1:21:12

good point as a realizing now that

1:21:14

like I have the ability to take

1:21:16

control of that aspect of my life.

1:21:19

Which. Previously. I thought,

1:21:21

well every time, plan something. Someone.

1:21:24

Else is gonna change it. Did you have no

1:21:26

control? Now I realize no I'd. Do.

1:21:28

A new school. By you taking over

1:21:30

the finances, you're doing two things: Number

1:21:33

one, you are filling the same role

1:21:35

that your mom did, and number two:

1:21:38

You. Have set. The. Expectation that

1:21:40

you are the money person.

1:21:44

And. He is what. Is

1:21:49

he avoided? And.

1:21:52

He's also the Worrier. So.

1:21:54

He worries and worries and has all these.

1:21:57

Thoughts. That are in the clouds about what's happened.

1:22:00

In politics and war will we be

1:22:02

able to access or money's but he

1:22:04

avoids. Talking about it. Learning

1:22:07

about it, Engaging with money and

1:22:09

you. Who. Have helpfully Coach

1:22:11

created this dynamic. It's always to. It's never

1:22:13

just one. You. Say

1:22:15

sounds good. I will prepare

1:22:18

the documents for next month and that

1:22:20

pattern actually works. It works enough that

1:22:22

yeah you get minor arguments are now

1:22:24

works. Except for.

1:22:27

The end of the year when you get in fights. And

1:22:29

what else? When does it not work? Look.

1:22:33

At this amount the you're investing every month was a say in

1:22:35

who Scca. The

1:22:37

Thousand Six Hundred and Thorns. Yeah,

1:22:40

And. So right now you have. A

1:22:42

two hundred fifty three thousand dollars invested.

1:22:45

You're. Going to have sins of thousands of dollars

1:22:48

being invested every single year. I never

1:22:50

going to be five hundred thousand soon. Six.

1:22:52

Hundred Seven Hundred Eight Hundred million Two

1:22:54

million Five million. When.

1:22:57

He's going to happen when he have three million dollars

1:22:59

in the bank and you're arguing over. Had

1:23:02

time for fifteen dollars at a time place.

1:23:06

I feel like I wouldn't be. We would has it

1:23:08

as much to worry about. We wouldn't. Either.

1:23:11

Know. We'd. Have more to fall

1:23:14

back on? This is that

1:23:16

one heart. In. All of

1:23:18

the discussions. That I've watched were

1:23:20

like. We. See this and I'm watching and

1:23:22

I'm like course I Come on guys are you not seen

1:23:24

as? But I just realized like most. Of

1:23:27

us as a as an assistant is what

1:23:29

do you see. I've. Always felt like

1:23:31

i your first million a D v

1:23:34

ten million is hard right leg making

1:23:36

those investments doing to those beliefs and

1:23:38

I don't see it stopping at that

1:23:40

point. I don't think we've ever feel

1:23:42

comfortable buying appetizers and regardless of your

1:23:44

us having tenure lead investments or whatever

1:23:46

else because it feel like such or.

1:23:49

It doesn't feel real. To.

1:23:51

Say that we had that much money because

1:23:53

of this whole perspective we had up until

1:23:55

now. of looking at this cassie be like

1:23:57

now this is not. We. Don't have

1:23:59

enough and never going to feel enough and

1:24:01

I think that's of this isn't be realize

1:24:04

so. When I say we need to invest more

1:24:06

because I want us to live a. Bigger allies

1:24:08

and I want us the city more because I want

1:24:10

us to be able to afford. I.

1:24:12

Don't know this beautiful, bigger apartment

1:24:14

or the. Beautiful! How sunday. And

1:24:18

I want us to be able to donate more money than.

1:24:20

We are and in reality

1:24:22

our goals ally. Because.

1:24:25

I know he also wants to live. A bigger life

1:24:27

in the future. But it's like. Illinois

1:24:29

the day to day when we say that sixty

1:24:31

three percent. A. Fixed costs is too

1:24:33

little in my head. like it doesn't make

1:24:36

sense. Still, I'm trying to get there. Was

1:24:38

talk about it. I don't think your goals

1:24:40

are aligned. I think is something that every couple

1:24:42

tells me. Let me just read

1:24:44

what you wrote on your application. I'm

1:24:47

not sure I have many years left. To

1:24:50

have the same conversations over and

1:24:52

over again. I.

1:24:55

Wrote out a very low points

1:24:57

system is ah. Is it accurate?

1:25:00

As I say it was, I mean at at

1:25:02

my lowest. Yes is accurate.

1:25:05

What do you think? The real problems? You're

1:25:07

not a percentage problem. That's a math problem

1:25:09

that he. Presented what's true.

1:25:11

Real problem here. I think

1:25:13

I see it. as she is

1:25:15

of percentage problem in the in a sense

1:25:18

in that. She. Has a number

1:25:20

that she thinks be have to hit to

1:25:22

be like. Saving the

1:25:24

correct amount. And then

1:25:26

that leads to us as

1:25:28

we. Gain. More and more monthly

1:25:31

income, shoving way more into savings and way

1:25:33

more. And and best thing that is she

1:25:35

thing that she needs to save and invest

1:25:37

certain amount of your roster. My.

1:25:40

Of I think I haven't and correct me if I'm

1:25:42

wrong. you're in a still like My understanding is. That

1:25:45

what? Like the stock. Template.

1:25:47

Of saving percentages should be to

1:25:49

your income. It. Is in

1:25:51

terms of like, okay, we stick to a

1:25:53

range of percentages for said investing, but. It's

1:25:56

more of life I am. And

1:25:59

I guess I. Realizes that myself a couple

1:26:01

a the got slick I am trying

1:26:03

to. Both

1:26:06

of our hands one less go to med school. Ah,

1:26:08

obviously. grounds. Of

1:26:12

and we were both on that track. And

1:26:15

we both because of our own reasons. Fell

1:26:17

away from that. And since

1:26:20

then my. Parents have never thought I was successful.

1:26:23

And. I.

1:26:27

Want to prove it to everybody

1:26:29

and myself that I will be

1:26:31

successful and. More. Successful than or anyone

1:26:33

ever thought I would improve everybody.

1:26:35

Wrong, I want. And I

1:26:37

think part of that for me is my net worth.

1:26:40

And living the lifestyle that we live.

1:26:43

And being able to shove it in my mom's face

1:26:46

to be like. I told

1:26:48

you I'd still be shifted as. An

1:26:51

added bonus. I appreciate the

1:26:54

candor a this guy really do. I

1:26:56

never realized that those old lady.

1:26:59

Like. That you are not even going to

1:27:01

be like I did. You did realize

1:27:03

one the to be perceived by your family's

1:27:06

be successful was such a driver Do

1:27:08

her in that house the understand so

1:27:10

months late by she's so. She's.

1:27:12

Ridges on Investing as I am

1:27:14

rigid on. Sending my

1:27:17

back to my family. would she supports To

1:27:19

be clear, it's like are you have do.

1:27:21

We. Do with the reason we had that

1:27:23

large argument As big as my investment percentage

1:27:26

or think was fifteen percent. It was like.

1:27:28

You're. Just taking my money where you want to

1:27:30

put it. But now I have an understanding of okay

1:27:33

this is. This is like

1:27:35

something that was court to her and herself

1:27:37

or view image of herself. And. That

1:27:39

helps you understand why. Those

1:27:41

arguments got so heated. A

1:27:43

new Scca. He

1:27:46

said something pretty candid. Did. You

1:27:48

realize it before today. I

1:27:52

started to think the by this

1:27:54

before this conversation. To be quite honest,

1:27:57

Like why am I so

1:27:59

driven by. The. The

1:28:01

numbers, the percentages, Are.

1:28:04

Outside of figure that out but as us

1:28:06

why of meant so much to me that

1:28:08

when she didn't agree that are investments had

1:28:10

to be a twenty five percent why it

1:28:12

made me so mad. At

1:28:16

same anger you felt when he questioned

1:28:18

you wanting to get an appetizer? Thought

1:28:21

about the appetizer. It's about what it

1:28:23

represents. So.

1:28:26

Now that you've articulated it out loud, maybe

1:28:28

for the first time. I want

1:28:31

to invest a lot of money

1:28:33

so that I it. Looks

1:28:36

like subsurface errands. And

1:28:38

fall. So ridiculous. As well

1:28:40

sometimes the biggest truths to. But

1:28:44

that doesn't change the fact that they

1:28:46

feel real to us. So. Can

1:28:48

ask you couple questions about success. Or

1:28:51

you successful? Yeah

1:28:56

yeah. Mascot.

1:28:58

Again or successful. I

1:29:02

know that I am, but I have a long

1:29:04

way to go. Well

1:29:08

as that, I was. you're successful As I

1:29:10

was doing something that I truly enjoyed and

1:29:12

I was. Making. Good money

1:29:14

from it. Okay,

1:29:18

What's. Going through had run. In: yikes,

1:29:20

Copies of like that? That's going to

1:29:22

my head. I guess.

1:29:25

Is as the whole thing that like. Myself

1:29:28

worth is tied to a number.

1:29:31

And. If you don't max it out,

1:29:33

that means. I'm worthless.

1:29:37

Okay, So.

1:29:40

Like your feelings would just change overnight one day.

1:29:43

When. You had a different job or business or something

1:29:45

like that. And

1:29:47

this I had a Million Dollars in the Bay cast.

1:29:50

You want a model at all right now. He a kind

1:29:53

of okay or it. let's do it. Sticks

1:29:55

that. Let's fix a basic numbers here. And.

1:29:58

I'm going to as you and is good to give. Me:

1:30:00

What? Numbers we should use so I know

1:30:03

you have these at your fingertips so should

1:30:05

not be a problem. Ballistic: A litter. Aren't

1:30:08

so? Your current principle of investment is what?

1:30:10

like two hundred fifty thousand bucks? Is

1:30:13

an amateur you are currently.

1:30:16

Adding. For. These

1:30:18

theories. Until

1:30:20

into forty Three Five Hundred. And

1:30:22

thirty Am And let's say you're going to

1:30:24

let it grow for I'm thirty. Five

1:30:27

more Years Fair. Yeah. I

1:30:29

and as seven percent So right now this is

1:30:32

like what you currently have a few that if

1:30:34

you never got a raise even though you're at

1:30:36

the beginning of your career, be that number of

1:30:38

li that Usda. Nine.

1:30:41

Million One Hundred Thousand. Three

1:30:43

hundred eighty hours and seasons. Wow. Not

1:30:45

sure that's going to be enough to

1:30:47

get the manga with sticky rice from

1:30:49

Where the fire I would You guys

1:30:51

think ten million before you can get

1:30:53

it is our studio. So we'll

1:30:56

has nine million in. Thirty years,

1:30:58

as I'm definitely said, That. Although.

1:31:06

I want to be living of think our life.

1:31:09

Before then. Is

1:31:11

where I stepped in to make a

1:31:13

quick suggestion. See them already accumulated a

1:31:16

lot of money. They continue to invest

1:31:18

aggressively. What is the kept investing? But.

1:31:20

They cut their investment contributions

1:31:23

by half. What?

1:31:25

Would happen. And. What I really

1:31:27

want to knows what would they do

1:31:29

with the extra tens of thousands of

1:31:32

dollars? That they could

1:31:34

spend now. Let's

1:31:37

say instead of forty three thousand

1:31:39

five hundred weekend that by. Half.

1:31:43

Scrims says was freaking out

1:31:45

here. When. He

1:31:47

won seven fifty a year. Or

1:31:51

the Reagan said of Nine Point one million.

1:31:54

Oh. My gosh, it's only going to be five

1:31:56

point eight million. I

1:31:58

think I think it's good. I think it's

1:32:00

good. I. Think is good

1:32:02

is probably the understatement of the century

1:32:04

in the long run. A

1:32:06

was beneficial to have taken a vow and.

1:32:09

Twenty. Thousand dollars more a year potentially

1:32:11

In what we could be doing now

1:32:13

is. I. Could not even imagine.

1:32:16

I. Really enjoyed speaking to Fernando And a new

1:32:19

scare. You don't hear stories like

1:32:21

this very often. And. I

1:32:23

really love that they were so

1:32:25

candid in sharing their childhood, their

1:32:27

finances, how they feel about money

1:32:30

sometimes, even when it may seem

1:32:32

irrational. Were all irrational?

1:32:35

Let's see what Fernando had to say in

1:32:37

his follow. Honestly,

1:32:39

It's while the same as but I had

1:32:41

not realize how successful the two of us

1:32:43

had become more the last few years and

1:32:45

how much that's impacted both our savings as

1:32:47

well as our our lifestyle and that the

1:32:50

financial scarce. The perspective that I had in

1:32:52

my head arm I think that also goes

1:32:54

to the point that you identified about therapy

1:32:56

so I was extremely he interesting to hear

1:32:58

you say that the Cfp that really you

1:33:00

know and a skill set up for us.

1:33:02

I threw her budgeting and planning ah has

1:33:05

been one of the best you've seen and

1:33:07

that we could put our time and. Half

1:33:09

and still be in a great place. That's

1:33:11

that's really crazy arm. We are going to

1:33:13

be taking a thousand dollars out of our

1:33:15

retirements or account. A. Monthly to now

1:33:17

allocate more towards my family arm, three

1:33:19

hundred dollars more towards a dream car

1:33:21

and some more money for us that

1:33:23

do activities and live life here in

1:33:26

San Diego and be happy Now is

1:33:28

your thing? Like living you're rich like

1:33:30

today and prioritizing that the only thing

1:33:32

is the fact that. I need

1:33:34

therapy City therapy with who he needs therapy

1:33:36

and how like that the really affected how

1:33:38

we're living our life day to day we're

1:33:41

we're putting our money and where we thinking,

1:33:43

who or what we need due. To.

1:33:45

Be happy arm and beyond that. Really

1:33:47

liked the fact that I'm not financially

1:33:50

educated and it's really holding back my

1:33:52

relationship with my partner and causing her

1:33:54

and do stress. I will be looking

1:33:57

to get. Better. At up

1:33:59

on that better understanding the financial responsibilities,

1:34:01

personal finance, retirement savings. All of that

1:34:03

so that I can be more a

1:34:05

partner when it comes to planning our

1:34:08

next five and ten years again together.

1:34:11

And now. A new this fall of. One.

1:34:14

Of my they the stateless of our conversation with

1:34:16

that I truly thought we were. Doing. The.

1:34:19

Bare Minimum linking him to say this, in investing

1:34:21

and you kind of show me how that was.

1:34:23

Not tattoos and that I was

1:34:25

actually overspending and over invest in

1:34:27

and it was directly related to

1:34:30

life partners and Xy a D

1:34:32

And fear of not having enough

1:34:34

money as that? I really need

1:34:36

to work on pay back in

1:34:38

those areas. One of the biggest

1:34:40

surprises was that I really thought

1:34:42

I was logical when it came

1:34:44

to money talks and turns out

1:34:46

I'm just as emotional as any

1:34:48

other human being. I want to

1:34:50

work on that in therapy for

1:34:52

sure. I want to be. More

1:34:54

logical when it comes to my saving

1:34:56

and investing cause I've also wrote getting

1:34:58

a raise and a bonus are coming

1:35:01

up shortly and always be discussed that

1:35:03

but I want to put at least

1:35:05

seventy five percent of the towards our

1:35:08

guilt free spending as well so that

1:35:10

are the goal of mine of and

1:35:12

then in the long term when we

1:35:14

could do you getting raises and bonuses

1:35:17

I want to kind of try to

1:35:19

sets of the five percent mark of

1:35:21

putting most of that was our guilt.

1:35:23

Free spending as Lobbies has, I

1:35:26

know that we are saving and

1:35:28

investing. A perfectly good about right

1:35:30

now that will set. Us up for

1:35:32

the future. So ah, therapy.

1:35:34

Seats will help me feel more secure

1:35:36

and Salt V to. Thank

1:35:41

you so much. Thanks

1:35:46

for listening to I Will Teach You

1:35:48

To Be Rich and Repeat Seat Please

1:35:50

follow the show on Apple's Spotify wherever

1:35:53

you listen to podcasts. If you haven't

1:35:55

read, I Will Teach You To Be

1:35:57

Rich. People. You

1:36:00

can do the any bookstore, any library. They

1:36:03

will show you the specific. For

1:36:06

how to build be I will teach

1:36:08

you to be rich system into your

1:36:10

personal finances.