0:00

Hello and welcome to another episode

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of I Way with Jamina Jamil,

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a podcast against shame. Happy new

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year. I can't fucking believe it

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either. We're doing it again. Another

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year of life as if

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we've even had a chance to catch our

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breath from the last year or the last

0:17

couple of years of true dumpster fire, shit

0:19

and hell. But we're going to try, we're

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going to try our best. We're going to

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do it together. And I'm going to do

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my best to bring you uplifting

0:28

content that makes you feel hopefully

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empowered and, and interested.

0:32

And just like you have a brief

0:35

bit of escape from the world. And,

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and I really feel, and I know

0:39

that this is, um, presumptuous

0:42

of me, but I feel like I've nailed it this

0:44

week. I love fucking nailing my first

0:46

episode of the year with the exact

0:49

tone that I want to continue with.

0:51

And I really feel like I did

0:53

it. And I love this conversation so

0:55

much. It's so important. And it's perfect

0:57

for January because this is a time

0:59

where we are being shamed on

1:02

mass about what we weigh and are we

1:04

beach body ready? And are we eating too

1:06

much? Do we need to be very restrictive

1:08

during January? Are we going to be punished

1:11

in January for everything we ate in December,

1:13

um, that we were already being

1:15

made to feel guilty about before December

1:17

even arrived? Like are we giving up

1:19

all meat or cheese or dairy or

1:21

alcohol, or are we going to exercise

1:24

every day of the month? It's

1:26

a lot and it's not just

1:28

diet. It's also fitness. There's so much fitness

1:30

pressure. A lot of people just being like

1:33

in January, as of January, I'm going to

1:35

really get my shit together and I'm going

1:37

to get a fucking ass that won't quit.

1:40

And we have all at some point, I

1:42

think been victim of

1:45

this. I like a, I like

1:47

a new year's resolution. I like

1:49

the, the energy and the, the

1:51

forward moving momentum of a clean

1:53

slate feeling, but I just feel

1:55

like it always gets used in

1:57

the most reductive and, and damaging.

2:00

and ultimately almost always unsustainable

2:02

way. There's, I think

2:04

there's a specific date in February by which

2:06

most people quit their resolutions and it's a

2:09

kind of known date because that's so common.

2:12

And so I'm trying to find things that

2:14

we can work on and focus on in

2:16

January that we could actually sustainably keep up,

2:18

not just for the rest of the year,

2:20

but hopefully for the rest of our lives.

2:23

And when it comes to exercise, that's incredibly

2:25

tricky because the messaging is so fucking toxic.

2:27

The exercise industry is so toxic. I've been

2:29

talking about it for a few years now,

2:32

how much it's become intertwined with

2:34

diet culture. And it's so much

2:36

about punishment and restriction and quote

2:39

unquote discipline to the point of

2:41

madness. There's nothing wrong with a

2:43

bit of discipline, but what

2:45

we are seeing is being encouraged

2:47

towards discipline above all else, above

2:49

your happiness, above your health, above

2:51

your true wellbeing or sanity. And

2:54

that's too much. I'm sick of

2:56

the way the exercise culture has

2:58

become so exclusionary. I think exclusive

3:00

is a bad word that should

3:02

be outdated because it means locking

3:04

people out. It's a

3:07

word that really battles me when used

3:09

in business because it just means less

3:11

clientele. It means less people at the

3:13

party. It's so ridiculous to me. Exercise

3:16

is something that should be for everyone. It should

3:18

be completely democratized. And yet we make people feel

3:20

like you have to look a certain way and

3:23

you have to be a certain age. And it's

3:25

preferable, I guess, if you're skinny and

3:27

white and privileged and we price people

3:29

out so badly and make people feel

3:31

pressured to wear these very fancy, very

3:34

expensive uniforms, which they have to have

3:36

certain body types to look the quote

3:38

unquote, right way within, it's just too

3:40

fucking much. And I'm sick of it.

3:43

And I have decided that this

3:45

year is going to be

3:47

the year in which I really pick up my

3:49

fight against the exercise industry. I

3:51

refuse for us to all be shut

3:54

out because we don't fit this cult-like

3:56

mode. And thankfully, my guest today

3:58

feels exactly the same way. But

6:00

I also feel so passionately about this. I've been

6:03

starting this movement called Move Your Mind on my

6:05

Instagram. I don't know if you've ever seen it

6:07

before. It started around the time where I was

6:09

doing Marvel and I was stunt training and it

6:12

completely reframed the way I looked at using my

6:14

body. And as someone who

6:16

had an eating disorder for 20 years, it's

6:18

been a hell of a journey for me to learn

6:20

how to exercise from a place of doing it for

6:22

me rather than to me to punish

6:24

myself for daring to eat. I had

6:26

a huge trauma around exercise. Now I

6:29

discuss in this episode and

6:32

I've really reformed it and I want to

6:34

bring everyone along for the ride because my

6:36

mental health is exponentially better

6:38

for having now incorporated joyous,

6:40

free, non-pressured movement into my

6:42

life. Intuitive movement, as Tali

6:44

Rai, my guest today calls

6:47

it. She's so smart.

6:49

She's so kind. She's so gently encouraging.

6:51

Doesn't make anyone feel judged. She's

6:53

so open about her own misinformation

6:56

that she both ingested

6:58

and put out into the world

7:01

years and years ago when she started as a

7:03

fitness influencer. I just loved talking

7:05

to her. I love her journey. I love

7:07

her authenticity and I think it's the message

7:09

that you really need. There are certain things

7:11

in this episode that we just don't talk

7:14

enough about or think enough about and

7:16

it felt really good to have it

7:18

at the forefront of a conversation around

7:20

exercise. Anyway, I'm just going to

7:22

let you listen to the whole episode rather than tell

7:24

you everything that's going on in it. I think I'm

7:26

just very hyped for it. This

7:29

is the excellent Tali Rai and if

7:31

you want to see her and me

7:33

together in person, on the 19th of

7:35

January in London, I'm going to be

7:37

hosting my first ever exercise and fitness

7:39

event around everything I've just been discussing

7:41

where we're going to be wearing baggy

7:43

clothes. There's going to be no fucking

7:45

mirrors. We're going to have sugary snacks

7:47

and delicious food and a happy non-judgmental

7:49

community if people have different sizes, disabilities,

7:52

non-disabilities, different ages, hopefully.

7:55

It's a small event. It's going to be super personal.

7:57

We're going to have panels and chats with experts. experts

8:00

like Tally and different doctors who can explain

8:02

to us why we need to exercise for

8:04

reasons other than fucking weight loss, other

8:07

than it only being around like our

8:09

bodies, etc. And we will be having

8:11

really fun exercise classes and I'll be

8:13

doing those exercises with all of you.

8:15

So you can find out about that

8:17

on my Instagram where the tickets will be available. Just

8:19

go to the link in my bio and I can't

8:21

wait to see some of you there. We will be

8:23

doing these events and making them bigger and bigger and

8:25

hopefully doing them all over the world if they are

8:27

a success. But we just want

8:30

to create a safe space for people

8:32

to move their bodies in and bring

8:34

back the joy and laughter to using our

8:36

bodies that are trying so hard to keep

8:38

us alive. And so I

8:40

just want to reframe our attitudes around all this. I've

8:43

been blabbing on for fucking ages now so I'm going

8:45

to shut up and just let you enjoy the excellent

8:47

Tally Rai. Tally

8:56

Rai, welcome to Ai Wei. How

8:58

are you? Thank you so much for

9:01

having me. I'm good. I'm good.

9:03

I'm feeling optimistic about this year. I'm

9:05

feeling quite positive and optimistic and

9:07

I'm up for it, you know? Okay,

9:09

so like what planet are you living

9:12

on then? Because I want

9:14

to get there. I want to feel

9:16

the way that you feel. I'm still

9:18

a bit freaked out from the last

9:21

year slash five years slash 35 years.

9:25

How are you able to feel optimistic?

9:27

Give us some of that gold dust

9:29

please. Well, for me, I feel like

9:31

last year was a hard year. So

9:34

I feel like it's only up, at

9:37

least, and I have to tell myself that. Because

9:40

that's how we get through

9:42

the day. So

9:45

it's a good year. I am on a personal

9:48

level getting married this year. Oh,

9:50

that's exciting. That's good news. So that's

9:52

like an exciting thing to look forward

9:54

to. And I'm just, yeah,

9:56

I'm just feeling and I don't know about you, but

9:59

I just know my... a little bit more.

10:01

I'm just a bit more sure of myself,

10:03

a bit more. I know what

10:05

I want. I know what I want to do. I know,

10:07

you know, so I just think I

10:09

have to say, interesting, I look back and I've

10:12

shared so much of this online and there's rarely

10:14

been anything I've deleted. So if you wanted to go

10:16

back and look at my more problematic stuff, you'll probably

10:19

find it. And you'll hear me though

10:21

saying like all the right things. So like

10:23

seven, eight years ago, I'm telling people, you

10:25

know, you've got to love yourself. Like, you

10:27

know, it's okay to, you know,

10:30

it's okay to take rest days. It's okay

10:32

to like, it's all about balance and everything.

10:35

And yet it took me a very long time

10:37

to truly internalize that. I suppose the real big

10:39

turning point for me was discovering the sort

10:42

of anti-diet movement, discovering intuitive eating,

10:44

the framework by Evelyn Tribbly and

10:46

Elise Resch. And that really

10:48

transformed my relationship with food because even though I'd

10:51

kind of very slowly been letting go of so

10:53

many of the rules I had around food, it

10:56

really put into words my

10:58

experience and also gave me a lot

11:00

of tools to really sort

11:03

of unpick those

11:05

kind of firm and knots

11:07

that I had. And that

11:09

was huge. Well, for a personal trainer

11:11

for you to start to unpack

11:14

the no pain, no gain culture.

11:17

That's really hard because it's a

11:19

real like church. Now

11:21

gym culture, it's like there's a

11:24

biblical attachment to the tenants of

11:27

exercise culture. And that includes the no

11:29

pain, no gain and all of the

11:31

fucking slogans and the

11:33

protein shake culture and the uniform. There's a fucking

11:35

uniform for the gym in a way that there

11:38

just didn't used to be. It was just like

11:40

any clothes that you don't like anymore used to

11:42

be what you would exercise in. Do you know

11:44

what I mean? It was like anything that shit

11:46

that's got stains on it that you can't get

11:48

out. We all used to go out exercising looking

11:51

like we'd just shit our pants because we were covered in

11:54

stains. But now it's like

11:56

expensive, luck, trendy,

12:00

matching hyper revealing for both

12:02

male, female, regardless of your

12:04

gender, like very revealing there

12:06

to like kind of show

12:08

off your discipline, to

12:10

show off your results and to motivate

12:13

you to be like, well, if I

12:15

don't look good in this, then I need to work harder.

12:18

There's so much subliminal

12:20

messaging in the uniform of exercise

12:22

and in the culture and the

12:24

photographs that are up at the

12:26

gym and the people that

12:29

we see always look the same and

12:31

don't have any body fat. So we associate

12:33

body fat with not being fit, even though

12:35

that's completely not fucking true because otherwise how

12:37

the fuck is Lizzo and all these other

12:39

amazing dancers and humans who don't like, Jack

12:42

Black has more energy than

12:44

anyone I've ever seen in my

12:46

life. And he's in his like fifties and

12:48

he's not super toned. And so

12:50

it's just anyway, my point just being

12:52

that it feels like a very constrictive

12:54

industry, one that must feel like breaking

12:56

out of a cult. When you

12:58

start to go, this is all horseshit.

13:01

Totally. So what was your, so that

13:03

was also, I guess, like a gradual

13:05

turnaround of, yeah, I need to stop

13:07

punishing my body. So pre pandemic, I

13:09

was, you know, whilst having an online

13:12

platform, and I was working, I'm still

13:14

working in a gym, I was training

13:16

clients in what was essentially

13:18

a body transformation gym, I wasn't a body

13:21

transformation personal trainer, but I needed to rent

13:23

a space and that was the space. And

13:26

yeah, I could see I could hear these conversations around

13:28

me, I could I walked into the studio and just

13:30

had a ton of before and after photos on the wall. And,

13:34

you know, the whole slogan was like, you know, how to

13:37

we make you look good naked kind

13:39

of vibe. And absolutely, it was a

13:41

cult and people were brought into it.

13:43

And all I heard were people

13:46

turning up to the person training sessions, terrified,

13:49

like terrified to tell their personal trainer that

13:51

they had a pizza at the weekend. And

13:53

just the whole like I had so many

13:55

conversations, I had to make conversations like, so

13:58

just don't use butter and just And

14:00

I'm like, guys, why are we

14:02

as personal trainers discussing nutrition to

14:04

begin with? We have such basic

14:06

nutrition training. The personal trainers, I

14:09

feel very strongly that personal trainers should

14:11

not be giving detailed nutrition plans to

14:13

clients because there's

14:16

a reason why people go to university to study

14:18

nutrition and it's nothing that we can do in

14:21

a couple of days or an online course. There

14:23

is a lot of arrogance in the

14:25

fitness industry of we know a little,

14:28

so we think we know a lot, but really we

14:30

know a little and we can help

14:32

people a little bit, but we have to be

14:34

really aware of where are, where

14:36

the boundaries are of how we can help people.

14:38

And I'm a firm believer of staying in your

14:41

lane, you know? Yeah, I just had like a

14:43

PTSD memory of going to a personal gym where

14:46

this trainer pulled out this thing that looks

14:48

like, I don't know, it's some sort of

14:50

fat clencher, I guess. Like, do you know

14:52

what I'm talking about? It

14:54

looks like it's gonna pick up salad

14:56

from a bowl or something, but it actually grabs

14:58

your fat and measures

15:01

it. Calipers. He would do that. That's

15:04

what it's called? Yes, calipers. Fucking crazy,

15:06

like medieval bullshit that we have in

15:08

these gyms and he would get the

15:10

calipers out and he would like measure

15:13

my fat and I would be terrified

15:15

after Christmas. You know, I was like

15:17

23, 24 years old. And

15:20

often that's when I would, when other people

15:22

would get on the fucking wagon of January

15:25

fitness, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. I would

15:27

not because I'd, you know, gained

15:29

a pound or two pounds like over Christmas.

15:31

And so I then wouldn't go back and

15:33

then often it would be like another two

15:35

years or three years before I try and

15:37

go to someone to like help me exercise

15:39

again. But it was always from a place

15:41

of, can you make me look like

15:43

a pussycat, though? That was the only

15:46

place I ever wanted to exercise from was like specifically

15:48

in the culture. Like the culture of his body had

15:50

me in a chokehold, even though I still couldn't be

15:52

bothered to exercise to get it, but like, that's what

15:54

I thought. It's like either that

15:56

or there's no point exercising. I knew

15:58

nothing about mental health. I

20:00

tried to do it 30 days in

20:03

a row and after about 22 days,

20:05

I look like an Indian raisin because

20:07

I'm so dehydrated. I have

20:09

no way idea how to aftercare

20:11

myself and I've pulled every

20:13

muscle going and I'm in

20:16

agony. I'm walking like

20:19

I've just had so much fun sex that I

20:21

definitely hadn't had because I had no energy because

20:23

I was exhausted from the bit gram yoga. And

20:26

I'm just like, I just... Labido is down. Labido

20:28

is under the ground. It's six feet under. And

20:30

I'm just dehydrated and all like fucked up. My

20:37

back and my neck and everything's hurting

20:39

all of the time. Then

20:41

my brain would just go like, oh, exercise doesn't suit

20:43

you at all. That was an exercise.

20:45

Yeah. So exactly, you

20:47

have just perfectly described... That's beyond excess. Yeah.

20:50

You've described what I call the

20:52

all or nothing cycle. And it

20:54

is my mission to help people

20:56

find a something because you,

20:59

like most other people,

21:01

especially this time of year, are looking

21:04

to suddenly kickstart this massive health

21:06

kick and it's so overwhelming and

21:09

we're over committing to change and

21:11

we're over committing to super vigorous

21:14

things. And I actually think a

21:16

30 day yoga like pass or

21:18

something is such a great example of

21:20

that because you do, you get to

21:22

day 22 and you're like, I

21:24

actually can't do this. Yeah. Right.

21:27

And then you miss a workout and then you miss a few more workouts and then you

21:29

feel like, well, I can't go back now because I've missed three.

21:31

So... I've fallen off the wagon.

21:33

I've fallen off the wagon and there's no way I can

21:36

get back on. So naturally you just do nothing. Then

21:39

in another six months, it gets to summer and

21:41

you start feeling shit about yourself again because now

21:43

we're all wearing left clothes and we all feel

21:45

like we're comparing ourselves again. And

21:47

then we're like, okay, right. I'm going to sign up to this app now and

21:49

I'm going to do this 30

21:51

day shred plan. And then we're at the

21:53

gym and then we have to do it for 30 days and then

21:55

we can't do it again. And then lo and

21:57

behold, we're back where we started. I

22:00

work with so many people that go through this

22:02

cycle. And instead,

22:04

it's really about how can we find

22:07

something? And what does that something look

22:09

like? And a big

22:11

thing is really helping people find

22:13

the fun, the pleasure, the enjoyment,

22:15

the playfulness. Yes,

22:18

we are adults, but really at our

22:21

core, we are big kids. And

22:23

I think one of the

22:25

biggest reframes I want to get across to people is,

22:28

how can you make movement fun and playful

22:30

and kind of meeting your inner child? So,

22:32

so many people I work with, when we're

22:34

thinking of all the different ways you can

22:36

move your body that often

22:38

are the total opposite of anything they've

22:40

done before, how can we kind

22:43

of find the fun stuff that you enjoy? For

22:45

some people, it might be, I mean, I say

22:47

this like a little kid activity, maybe it's not.

22:49

Some people it's like pole dancing, some people it's

22:51

tap dancing, you know, it

22:54

might be bike riding, it might

22:56

be tampolining, climbing, I don't

22:58

know, whatever you want it to be, karate, whatever

23:00

it is. But there are so

23:03

many ways to move your body and it

23:05

doesn't have to be like I said, it's

23:07

all or nothing process. It can be something

23:09

you enjoy and actually look forward to, but

23:11

there's often a lot of work we have to

23:14

do to kind of shut

23:16

out the diet culture noise and to reframe

23:18

movements. So it's something that you actually enjoy

23:20

and look forward to. For

23:23

me personally, that was tennis. I

23:25

love playing tennis, I've always watched tennis for years,

23:27

I am a big fan, but this was the

23:30

first year that I finally took up tennis, had

23:32

tennis lessons and I can't tell you how much

23:34

more purpose it has brought to the way I

23:36

move my body because now I'm thinking about, right,

23:38

what can I do to help me get better

23:41

at tennis? I wanna get better at tennis because

23:43

I tell you what, the 60, 70, 80 year olds at my

23:45

club are

23:48

running circles around me. They

23:50

are killing me, so I've gotta keep up, I

23:52

wanna play, I wanna get involved in more of

23:54

the social stuff. So how can I get better

23:56

at that? How can I improve my skills? The

24:00

big thing is like how can

24:02

I reframe this so it actually

24:04

supports my life It's it's self-care

24:07

and it's fun rather than being

24:09

punishment because as we say for

24:11

speaking especially about the exercise and

24:13

mental health Conversation I think

24:15

we think I think we

24:17

think all exercise is beneficial for

24:19

us No matter what

24:21

but if you are exercising to the point

24:24

of exhaustion if you're not

24:26

taking rest days if you're not listening to your body

24:28

if you're doing it from a place of guilt and

24:30

Shame if you're doing it from a place of

24:32

not feeling good enough of feeling like I have

24:34

to go and punish my body

24:37

into being smaller into being acceptable

24:40

It is not been benefiting your mental health in the way you

24:42

think it is and actually I would

24:44

argue that it's detrimental to your overall

24:46

health and well-being to be working out from a

24:48

place of Shame

24:51

and guilt and negativity and actually if

24:53

we're coming at it from a place of

24:55

self-care of challenge of fun

24:58

of play Not

25:00

only will you enjoy it you'll be

25:02

more consistent, which is the key and

25:06

You will therefore reap the physical and

25:08

mental health benefits that that really do

25:10

benefit you, you know So

25:12

yeah, it's also important to remember that

25:14

like physiologically. We are different a

25:17

obviously as individuals We're different but

25:19

I believe you know, I've spoken

25:21

to quite a few fitness experts

25:23

about this But for women in

25:25

particular for the female biological system

25:27

It's not actually good for us

25:29

to engage in like a lot of

25:31

ballistic Exercise like and a lot of very

25:34

very like high intensity workouts Like that's bad

25:36

for our cortisol levels and that can throw

25:38

off our insulin and our hormone balance So

25:41

it's not it's not good for us

25:43

Hormonally to engage in very very stressful

25:46

very very high intensity workouts that actually

25:48

low intensity, you know And we're encouraged

25:50

towards whatever is the most kind of

25:52

like, you know, the fastest results shock

25:54

your body But that might

25:57

have quicker results at first, but after

25:59

a while It starts to become

26:01

quite detrimental to your long-term house and by

26:03

the way also then starts to impact your

26:05

body shape with your body fighting back because

26:07

it has to because we're not supposed to

26:10

women are not with so ironic that women

26:12

respond so Extremely to stress

26:14

given how fucking stressful the world is

26:16

for us But I would say that

26:18

adding on to that having something that

26:20

also doesn't feel like a punishment while

26:22

you're doing it I mean that feels

26:24

like play would only be Less

26:26

likely to spike your cortisol and

26:29

to spike your adrenaline and

26:31

the biggest thing is consistency and it

26:33

sounds really Unsexy and really boring but

26:35

you know the main thing that's going

26:37

to benefit you Overall is

26:40

having a level of consistency with

26:42

movement throughout the years Rather

26:45

than these short bursts here and there and

26:47

often the short bursts like I say come

26:50

when you're doing super intense stuff So

26:52

finding something you enjoy finding something that's

26:54

a suitable effort level for you It's

26:56

really important because that means you can

26:58

have consistency We think more is more

27:00

but it's not is quality of

27:02

movement over quantity and it's about

27:04

consistency and sustainability And

27:07

I think that is always missing

27:09

from a very mainstream fitness

27:12

conversation because we're always looking at

27:15

what's the best workout for results

27:18

rather than What's the

27:20

best workout for me for my

27:22

body for my mind and that's

27:24

different for everyone, you know It

27:26

is there is an issue there

27:28

which is that I think we are a results

27:30

based like I don't know It's a species but

27:32

we know we want instant gratification and we want

27:34

to be able to see an improvement And so

27:37

when you're looking for a muscular Difference

27:39

that takes fucking months if not years

27:41

to really build to a point where

27:44

it's like visibly obvious where you get

27:46

the Aggression of the result for

27:48

me Reframing it in

27:50

my mind is sleeping better. Yeah,

27:52

or or Feeling

27:55

calmer or having like a sharper

27:57

mind like less brain fog that

28:00

with my instant gratification results, which

28:02

if you're not looking out for

28:04

the signals of the benefits of

28:06

exercise, like improved mood, et cetera,

28:09

then it can feel like, okay, well, yeah, I'm walking

28:11

every day, I'm doing the number every day, and nothing's

28:14

really changing on my body. It can

28:16

feel frustrating, but if you look for

28:19

certain markers, like the emotional markers or

28:21

sleep markers or stress markers, then

28:23

you are gonna see those results. I just had

28:26

to learn what I was looking for, otherwise it

28:28

felt pointless. And I think a

28:30

lot of people need something to be working

28:32

towards, just knowing something's good for you isn't

28:34

always enough for us. We need some sort

28:36

of tangible, well, I took time out of

28:39

my day to do this thing, and just

28:41

knowing it's something chemical isn't quite enough. And

28:44

I think journaling, your markers. Yes,

28:46

so through the framework of intuitive movement

28:48

I use, that's exactly what I encourage.

28:50

So firstly, I encourage people to, you

28:53

can journal how you feel before, during and

28:55

after your workout, and just really reflect on

28:57

that. Secondly, for people who are

29:00

perhaps finding things that they do enjoy and

29:02

wanna get good at, I use myself as

29:04

tennis as the example, you

29:06

can track your field progression, you can

29:08

track your form during a workout. If

29:11

you're at the gym, you

29:14

may be noticing, oh, I'm lifting

29:16

that heavier, or that heavy thing I can

29:18

do a few more reps of it. If you're running,

29:20

it's like, oh, I ran a little bit further, instead

29:22

of to that bench, I can now run to that

29:24

lamppost. If you're looking

29:27

at speed, you can notice your

29:29

speed. I think even with dancing,

29:31

say, you can notice your confidence,

29:33

and see your confidence in how

29:36

you're performing your routines, and there's

29:38

so many tangible ways of

29:41

seeing improvement and feeling improvement.

29:44

But like you say, we don't

29:46

hear about those, we're not educated on those, because

29:48

we're just driven home before and after photos. And

29:52

I want to make it really clear to

29:54

every listener, a fitness journey is not the

29:56

same as a weight

29:59

loss journey. actually two very separate

30:01

things. And I think

30:03

people conflate the two so much

30:06

that if they don't feel they're

30:08

getting this real visible transformation, then

30:10

they're not getting fitter. That's actually

30:12

not true at all. You can

30:14

get fitter stronger, you can improve

30:16

your cardiovascular capacity, you can build

30:19

your muscle, you can improve your

30:21

agility, your balance, your speed,

30:24

you can do all of those things. And the

30:26

number on the scale may not change. I

30:28

think we wrongly look at that number

30:30

to validate. When I did Marvel, the

30:33

number on the scale went up, because

30:35

I was building like muscle and I

30:37

was becoming really strong. And my balance

30:39

was changing and my body was changing and my ass

30:41

became, I had an ass. It was very brief. I

30:44

thought I was gonna keep it up. I didn't keep

30:46

it up. But like, I, I felt

30:48

myself expanding. And it didn't

30:50

scare me because I was at the

30:53

same time also seeing that like, wow,

30:55

I feel the most powerful I've ever

30:57

felt. I was like, people

30:59

better not fuck with me in an Uber. You

31:01

know, now I feel like I

31:03

could really, I'm like really only if they

31:05

know the exact opposite side of the exact

31:08

stunts that I know. Can I say? Carefully.

31:10

And yeah, exactly. Sorry, Graf, move. No, sorry.

31:12

Can you be over there with the knife?

31:14

Thank you. Now I know it from that

31:17

angle. But

31:25

it is remarkable. And you're right. It's not about

31:27

that. It's not about that number on a scale.

31:30

You and I are about to do

31:32

an event together in a

31:35

few weeks in which we are

31:37

going to be encouraging people to

31:39

come along and try out different

31:41

types of non, and

31:44

I say vanity based only because it's like

31:46

non, non appearance based workouts. And

31:48

that to me is something that's really important.

31:50

Because I'm in Los Angeles, I'm a fucking

31:52

terrible dancer, like a terrible, terrible

31:55

dancer, like a Mr. Bean, like

31:57

a drunk Mr. Bean dancer, which I don't think

32:00

any surprise given my personality. But I

32:02

deep down, we all hope will be Beyonce

32:04

and I've tried it out. And it's not

32:07

happening for me. And what's really

32:09

frustrating for me is that in Los Angeles,

32:11

it's a lot of classes where people

32:13

film themselves and it's high, high

32:16

level. Some of the people here have fucking trained

32:18

dancers at these dance classes. So you turn up

32:20

and I'm sure it's the same in big cities

32:22

like London and New York, et cetera. It's

32:24

like you can't just go to a regular sort

32:27

of dance aerobics

32:29

type class, like where I could just learn

32:31

a sort of basic dance routine. I've got to be

32:33

like up and then on my knees and then upside

32:35

down and I have to know how to twerk and

32:37

I know how to do this, that and the other.

32:40

It's so competitive and it's such a high

32:42

level of performance that you're supposed to deliver.

32:44

And then people film themselves and you might

32:46

be in the fucking background of their filming.

32:49

Can we please talk about fucking

32:52

filming yourself in the

32:54

gym and in

32:56

dance classes and how I can understand why you want to

32:58

do that because it's your life and you want to document

33:01

it and you want to put it out there. But fuck

33:03

me, we have no real rules around who

33:06

else is in the background of that video.

33:08

And there's no real template for people being

33:10

able to say without seeming like an asshole

33:12

or a Karen, like, hey, I

33:15

don't really want you to film us three

33:18

doing this bit of the dance section and then

33:20

putting that on the internet. We

33:22

don't really have an allowed dialogue for

33:24

please don't film me in

33:27

the background of your workout. People are made

33:29

to feel like fucking assholes if they say

33:31

that, but there's no privacy

33:33

anymore. Am I crazy?

33:36

Am I old? What's happening? I don't

33:38

think you are. And I think this

33:40

is just an evolving issue, isn't it?

33:42

In the sense of we just haven't

33:44

had this before. So you're right, like

33:46

10, 15, 20 years ago, if

33:48

you were on a TV thing and they were filming something

33:50

in the street, they probably had to get you to sign

33:53

something to be allowed to use it. That just doesn't happen

33:55

today. Anyone can post anything on the internet. And look, it

33:57

is partly my job to post things on the internet as

33:59

well. So, and have I filmed

34:01

myself in workout situation? Absolutely. I try

34:03

to be super mindful of not filming

34:05

anyone else, but you're right. I

34:08

think there are conversations to be had

34:10

and there are things that I think we need to

34:12

be more aware of. So I'm glad you're bringing it

34:14

up. Yeah, because I think it is something that's making

34:16

a lot of people more than ever now not want

34:18

to go to the gym. It's like, oh, I don't

34:21

really want, like, it's not my most, like, you don't

34:23

want to be thinking about what your face is doing

34:25

or how your hair looks. So, you know, like, you

34:27

don't want to feel like you have to wear makeup

34:29

and like, you know, be camera

34:32

fucking fresh and camera ready. If you aren't

34:35

looking to document your fitness journey for the

34:37

entire public, it's really insane. Like people, I've

34:39

got friends who look like they're going to

34:41

the club now and they're going to the

34:43

gym because they don't know whose background image

34:45

they're going to be, you know, nationally shamed

34:47

on or, you know, displayed on,

34:49

even if they're not, you know, going to be shamed.

34:52

I think this is a really, really

34:54

problematic part of our culture

34:56

now that you don't fight,

34:59

like there should be a special corner, I think, in a

35:01

gym where people can film

35:03

themselves, where there's no one able to

35:05

be in the background. Like that, we

35:07

should put that in gym because like,

35:09

it's insane to me that you're able

35:12

to just put other strangers on the

35:14

internet in an intimate, private, personal space.

35:16

People are working through shit in the

35:18

gym. They're working through maybe

35:20

body image issues or trauma or self-consciousness,

35:22

or they're taking out their fucking terrible

35:24

day, or they're a mum of three

35:26

and that's her private time. I

35:29

really think it's like a really big

35:31

conversation that we need to have where we need

35:33

some sort of a protocol for being

35:36

able to say, I'm sorry, but no. Like

35:39

either private hours in the gym, you know,

35:41

where there's a special influencer hour where everyone

35:43

can film themselves, but I really do think

35:45

this is an issue that's making a lot

35:47

of people not want to participate in dance

35:49

classes or exercise or pole dancing or anything.

35:53

I think there's an interesting conversation as well to

35:55

kind of add on to that. Something

35:57

I talk about a lot with people is how... We,

36:00

so many of us exercise in a

36:02

massive self objectification mindset. We're thinking about

36:04

constantly when we're in the gym, what

36:06

do we look like? How do other

36:08

people perceive me right now? I'm in

36:10

a class, like what are people thinking

36:13

of my body? As I'm moving, we

36:15

rarely get to just be in our

36:17

bodies and be present. And I think

36:19

what you're saying with social media and

36:21

this emphasis on potentially you're

36:23

going to be in someone's video, but also so

36:26

many people film themselves now that we kind

36:28

of get in this mindset of thinking about,

36:30

okay, well, I get to see what that person looks

36:32

like, and they may be talking about their

36:34

body when they're exercising. And therefore I have to be thinking

36:36

about that when I'm doing the same. And

36:39

one thing I'm super passionate about and it's

36:41

kind of my mission this January is to

36:43

really help people get out of that self

36:45

objectification mindset and really focus

36:47

on being more present in themselves and

36:50

in their bodies. And also

36:52

working on those other barriers to being

36:55

in fitness spaces. I'm actually

36:57

starting doing a coaching

37:00

group this January that specifically focuses

37:02

on helping people feel more

37:05

comfortable in public fitness spaces. And you're

37:07

right. I think that's certainly one of

37:09

the barriers that stops people engaging in

37:11

movement because they feel like we're all

37:13

looking at each other. We're all judging

37:16

each other. And this is especially true

37:18

for people in larger bodies because they

37:20

get such patronizing. Well done, comments. Good

37:22

for you. Well done. You showed up,

37:25

which is, I know it's

37:27

well-meaning, but it also is totally assuming

37:30

something about that person, their body, their intention

37:32

behind their workout that you have no idea

37:34

about. So if you see someone in a

37:36

larger body in a gym or any sort

37:39

of fitness thing this January and beyond, please

37:41

just treat them the same as everyone else.

37:43

Please don't make them feel like... But tell

37:45

them how inspiring they are. Yes. Please, or

37:47

please don't like film. Oh my

37:49

goodness. Please don't film them anonymously and then

37:51

upload them and say, you know, whatever else,

37:53

like, let's not do that. I think this

37:55

is one of the, the other big thing is

37:58

like, we don't know people's intention behind... their

38:00

movement. We don't know the day

38:02

they've had, we don't know why they're there

38:04

like you say, they're working through stuff. So

38:06

let's just leave people to be and really

38:09

focus on ourselves, I'm

38:12

feeling good and moving in

38:14

the way that feels good for us, I'm

38:16

listening to our bodies and actually the less

38:18

time we spend in self-objectification mode, the less

38:20

time we spend in judgment mode,

38:22

we actually get to tune into our

38:24

body more and say much of what

38:26

intuitive movement is about, is that reconnection

38:28

with your body. It's like you said

38:31

earlier on, I didn't know what, I

38:33

didn't know where my limits were, I didn't know when

38:35

it was enough for my body, I didn't actually understand

38:38

how to listen to those cues within my body and

38:41

if we take away all that

38:43

other noise, we can actually start

38:45

cultivating that awareness, that inter-receptive awareness

38:47

of okay, what does it feel

38:50

like when I'm really pushing myself, what

38:52

does it feel like when I find a middle

38:54

ground, what actually feels comfortable for me, how does

38:56

my body like to move. So many

38:58

questions we don't ask ourselves, one of the things

39:00

I do with my clients is often how does

39:03

your body tell you it wants to stop, how

39:05

does your body tell you it wants rest and

39:08

they just look at me blankly like what, we

39:11

don't, yeah, what, excuse me, it's

39:14

so funny, it's one of the best

39:16

things you can do is once you start connecting

39:18

with your body and understanding your

39:21

need for rest, it

39:23

means that when you move, and your body

39:25

asks you for rest, you can honor it,

39:27

your body can trust you and therefore you

39:29

know that when you engage with movement, you're

39:31

not going to be sucked into that all

39:34

110 percent mentality and

39:36

actually you get that something that we were

39:38

talking about and so you can engage with

39:40

movement without knowing like oh my god, this

39:42

is going to be painful and terrible and

39:44

challenging and I'm going to not be able

39:46

to walk the next day but actually oh

39:48

I can do this whilst listening and trusting

39:51

my body, going at my own pace, doing

39:53

it in a way that suits me, not worrying

39:55

about what anyone else is thinking, not worrying about

39:57

what my body looks like and And

40:00

I'm getting out of this what I need. And I just

40:02

think it seems like subtle things

40:04

that they all add up to make a big

40:06

shift. Well, it's also like we have so much

40:08

conditioning in our culture that like, again, like not

40:10

to hammer this home, but no pain, no gain.

40:13

It's like, when it's hurting, you're told like that,

40:15

that now you're in the fat burning zone. Now

40:17

you're really making change. And like when my, I

40:19

remember like my friends would like come back from

40:22

doing like reformer Pilates and could literally like not

40:24

get out of bed or couldn't like have a

40:26

shower or something because they're in so much pain.

40:28

They were like, Oh, I just love it. I

40:30

just love it. Like, I love this feeling

40:33

like whenever like that, like agony in your

40:35

ass, like the day after doing 400 fucking

40:37

squats or whatever. And then I just really

40:39

feel like I've like, Oh, I

40:41

love this burn, like this extraordinary reprogramming to like

40:43

see that pain where your body's going, no, this

40:45

was too far. Like a light ache, a gentle

40:48

ache, just to be expected when you've pushed your

40:50

foot body, you know, the muscles torn and needs

40:52

to repair because bigger blah, blah, blah. I get

40:54

that. But like real

40:56

pain. And I think women again are

40:58

quite susceptible to this. Although I know

41:00

that men are like increasingly being like,

41:02

you know, drag down the fucking sinkhole

41:04

of this culture, but women are so

41:06

hyper normalized to enduring so much pain.

41:08

So, you know, we've been taught like,

41:10

Oh, it's a good thing. Pat on

41:12

the back. Well done. You've

41:14

pushed yourself to the point of agony. And so that

41:17

means you're going to see some results. That's

41:19

part of, I think, why we've no longer

41:21

got that trust in ourselves. No. And

41:24

everything that I'm doing with Move For Your Mind,

41:26

because it was because of Move For Your Mind,

41:28

but which is a movement for anyone who doesn't

41:30

know, like for the last like, I think in when

41:32

I started doing Marvel in 2021 was when I started

41:35

doing Move For Your

41:37

Mind of just like just divorcing everything and

41:40

just making it about mental health. It

41:42

was to make sure that we exercise in

41:44

baggy clothes and we eat

41:46

a sugary snack, a little, you know,

41:49

sugary snack before or maybe during or

41:51

afterwards, not as any kind of reward,

41:53

but just as a kind of, I'm

41:55

not doing calories in calories out. This

41:57

gives me a bit of energy. It's

42:00

tasty. It gives me a bit of dopamine and now

42:02

the exercise is going to give me dopamine and I'm

42:04

going to listen to disco music and that's going to

42:06

make me feel great. And I'm not going to look

42:08

in a mirror and I'm not going to be judging

42:10

how I look when I'm bending over because I'm wearing

42:13

a baggy outfit. It was just everything designed to make

42:15

dopamine the kind of at the

42:17

forefront of your exercise experience. And via

42:19

doing that, I have completely reframed and

42:21

I don't look at it as any

42:23

form of punishment or any form of

42:25

self-consciousness. And I'm not judging myself at

42:27

all because I've like gone

42:29

against everything that the cult

42:32

of exercise culture has told me.

42:34

No cute, tight outfits that

42:36

make me feel like I need to suck

42:38

in my stomach, like no self-consciousness, no self-awareness

42:41

because I think it's just so incredibly toxic. And

42:43

I despair of how

42:46

many years of my life I've

42:48

had such a misunderstanding of exercise

42:50

and therefore not reaped the

42:52

benefits. I can't believe how I sleep

42:54

without sleeping pills now. But it's shocking

42:56

to me that I never thought I

42:59

just thought I was a lifelong insomniac.

43:02

I never thought I was someone who could

43:04

go for a walk during an argument and

43:07

come back and be able to deliver like a

43:09

sane resolution to a

43:11

fight. I never thought

43:13

I would look forward to my daily

43:16

one hour walk with the dog where we

43:18

do zoomies together. So whenever they get the

43:20

zoomies, I do the zoomies with them and

43:22

we just get all of our energy out.

43:24

I never thought that I've been sick for the

43:26

last five days. I used to kind of look

43:29

forward to a period of no exercise and I've

43:31

been fucking gutted every day that I couldn't do

43:33

it because I've noticed that my mood is so

43:35

much lower and I'm so much

43:37

less motivated. And I just

43:39

feel like online and the news

43:41

and the world is so much more insurmountable when

43:44

I'm not exercising

43:46

that autonomy of taking control back of

43:48

my body and my life by

43:50

moving in feeling good. I'm

43:52

a big believer in exercise isn't

43:54

therapy, but it is therapeutic and

43:57

that it doesn't solve the deep issues

43:59

that you would deal with in

44:01

therapy but it certainly helps you build

44:03

your resilience and helps you

44:05

give you the headspace and the clarity

44:08

and just that clear mindedness

44:10

to then approach your problems

44:13

then deal with whatever else is going

44:15

on in your life then have that

44:17

tough conversation then go into the meeting

44:20

that you've been dreading because you've given

44:22

yourself that space that self-care that time

44:24

you've you filled your cup before then

44:27

going into the world and I think

44:29

when we're thinking of it that way it

44:31

makes such a difference

44:34

but yeah that's the other narrative

44:36

like when we're talking about the

44:38

exercise and mental health conversation there's

44:41

so much well meaning stuff of like exercise

44:43

is your therapy just work out for your

44:45

mental health and actually

44:49

often what we're doing it can

44:51

be what seems like a really helpful

44:53

coping mechanism speaking from personal

44:56

experience it can be more like the way

44:58

you sort of run away and

45:00

avoid dealing with your food and

45:02

actually instead of thinking of it that way and just

45:04

suddenly focusing on all your stuff like if if

45:07

you're experiencing a period of bad mental health

45:09

think of movement as one tool in your

45:11

box and not the only tool and think

45:13

about what other tools you can get in

45:15

your box that's something I do with

45:18

the people I work with and something I talk about in

45:20

my book it's like think of all

45:22

the different things you do and it might

45:24

be phoning a friend it might be journaling

45:26

scheduling therapy it might be walking your dog

45:28

but there it's a tool and it's not

45:30

the sole tool and I think as

45:32

we know there's so many things like if we're relying on one

45:34

thing especially for our mental health

45:37

like oh that's probably not going to turn out

45:39

well if we have several things to lean

45:41

on. It's going to make you not bother then because you're

45:43

like well it's not going to completely fix the problem so

45:45

why would I bother it? It just gets you that little

45:47

bit closer feeling

45:50

in control. Another thing I just want to quickly

45:52

touch on with you especially because you are a

45:54

trainer is that you know I think it's important

45:56

to be aware of the fact

45:59

that a lot don't have that hour

46:01

in a day. It was all my mates who

46:03

are mums are just like, what hour, what

46:05

half hour in a day do I have? Because

46:08

they're constantly, there's either a baby hanging off their

46:10

tit or they're running after a toddler or this,

46:12

that and the other. That is

46:14

another fallacy of exercise culture of like you need

46:16

to drive to the gym and then you need

46:18

to do an hour in the gym. You need

46:20

to drive back, you need to have a shower.

46:22

It's like three, two hours of your day sometimes

46:24

when you map it out like that. I am

46:28

a big subscriber of move

46:30

in any way you can, wherever you can.

46:32

Like I don't go to a gym massively

46:34

because of the filming issue. I don't want to

46:36

be in the background of other people's films. So I

46:39

don't go to a gym and that's really annoying because

46:41

I can't use a lot of things that would be

46:43

good for my Ehlers-Danlos syndrome, but I just can't fucking

46:45

sound it. So I've, you know, got a few little,

46:47

I've got like a hilariously small walking machine in my

46:49

house that I just watched Heli and

46:51

I do a little walking on and then I've got

46:54

a few little five kilogram weights that I can do

46:56

stuff on. But I don't often have time in my

46:58

day. So other than walking my dogs, which is a

47:00

huge priority for me, when I want to do any

47:02

kind of muscle or fitness work, I'm just like, you

47:05

know what? I have 10 minutes today.

47:07

That's enough. 10 minutes is something

47:09

better than nothing. A lot of people think

47:11

they won't see any benefits. Can you reinforce

47:14

that to people who are going into a

47:16

busy year who are just like,

47:18

yeah, yeah, it's all good talking about fitness

47:20

and gyms, but I don't have the fucking

47:22

time. Something is better than nothing. If you

47:24

take one mantra from this episode, remember that

47:26

because you're right. Five minutes,

47:29

10 minutes, it's something and it

47:31

can add up over time. And remember when

47:33

we spoke about consistency, that is a way

47:35

to maintain a level of consistency. Because once

47:37

again, if we get trapped in this idea

47:39

that workout should be at least one hour

47:42

or 45 minutes, otherwise they don't count, we

47:44

then get stuck in that all or nothing

47:46

mindset again. Because if I can't do the

47:48

whole one hour, then what's the point? We

47:50

need to kind of challenge

47:52

that rule by doing shorter

47:55

little bursts of things. There's this phrase

47:57

called exercise snacking. I quite like it.

48:00

I also like to say, especially to mums and stuff, you are

48:02

picking up. What

48:06

I pick up as a kettlebell, you're picking up as

48:08

a child every day. I think we always forget that.

48:11

That there's so much stuff that you're doing in your

48:13

house, in your day-to-day

48:15

life that can be classed

48:17

as movement. And you know,

48:20

I have this phrase I always drive

48:22

home is all movement counts. That includes

48:24

gardening, that includes cleaning your house, hoovering

48:26

your carpet, you know, rubbing

48:29

your shower. That all adds up. And

48:31

actually, if we get stuck

48:33

in, if we kind of berate ourselves and

48:35

start feeling guilty and a load of shame

48:37

that we can't do the gym workouts, the

48:40

Pilates classes, like we're seeing everyone do online,

48:43

we then end up in a nothing

48:45

phase. We're doing nothing. And actually, let's

48:47

just be honest and real with ourselves about

48:49

what phase we're in in our life. I

48:52

always say to people, if you are, if

48:54

you're planning to engage with movement for the

48:56

rest of your life, if in this chapter

48:59

you are more, you're having to

49:01

give more attention to children, you are having to

49:03

give more attention to your work, to your job, don't

49:05

panic. Try and keep a little bit

49:08

of movement in there if you can, even if that

49:10

is just, you know, walking around a bit more when

49:12

you can or, you know, like

49:14

I say, doing your chores and your house chores

49:16

and your little five-minute exercise snacks at home. Like,

49:19

if that's all you can do, that is like,

49:21

that is fine because it's not forever. It

49:23

might not be like that forever. Priorities may get

49:25

to change in the future. But just keep going,

49:28

stay warm. But don't panic. Yeah, don't panic. I

49:30

said, yes, stay warm. I like that. Don't panic

49:32

on it because I think that's the thing. This

49:34

whole all or nothing thing is so encouraged. Determining.

49:39

But it's so encouraged by the fitness industry because

49:41

they're like, you're not doing enough. That's why you're

49:43

plateauing. You should always be progressing. You should always

49:46

be seeing improvement in what you're doing. And

49:48

actually, that's not real. That doesn't reflect real life.

49:51

As we know in our lives,

49:53

like things ebb and flow. Sometimes

49:55

we're in chapters of progress. Sometimes

49:58

we're just treading water. And it's the same. with

50:00

movement and so if right

50:02

now you're just able to tread water with

50:04

doing a little bit you can do that

50:07

because eventually you'll get to a point where

50:09

you have more capacity, time,

50:11

resources, energy to put more time into yourself.

50:13

An example of one thing that I do

50:15

that I find incredibly fun and

50:18

is super helpful is that when

50:20

I'm like fuck I haven't had a chance to move

50:22

my body today someone else has walked the dogs or

50:24

it's raining really badly outside and my dogs are massive

50:26

massive snobs about the rain. I

50:29

then I'm like you know what I've got 15

50:32

minutes I'm gonna pull

50:34

a treat out of the

50:36

drawer and I'm gonna make my dogs chase me for

50:38

15 minutes. I love that. And that

50:40

to me is one of the

50:42

most fun ways to have a

50:45

burst of exercise. I'm bonding with

50:47

the dogs, I'm exhibiting or like

50:49

revisiting my child self by playing

50:51

and then I get a fucking

50:54

amazing 15 minute workout where we're doing

50:56

like parkour over the living room you

50:58

know and ran

51:00

like little kitchen island and so it's like there

51:03

are these little ways that we underestimate that

51:05

are for free. I don't spend a lot

51:08

of money on exercise and I don't I

51:10

don't want to. I just want to be

51:12

able to like be a part of helping

51:15

building a movement alongside people like you. The

51:17

reason I found you is because I asked

51:20

people like who's someone who you feel

51:22

like as a trainer who makes you

51:24

feel good about exercise and your name

51:26

came up like a hundred and fifty

51:29

times immediately and that's when I became

51:31

like familiar with your work and

51:34

you make people feel like

51:36

they can and exercise culture

51:38

makes people feel like they're not allowed.

51:40

It's like who are you to join

51:42

us in exercise culture? Who the

51:45

fuck are they? Who the fuck

51:47

are they? Like what is what where

51:49

are we at that we have told

51:51

people there's a huge membership fee and

51:53

you have to have the uniform and

51:55

the right perfect mindset and always make

51:57

progress. It's very ableist very fabulous.

52:00

It's very momphobic. It's what it's

52:02

just It's

52:04

really frustrating and it's really reassuring for me

52:06

to know there are people and actual trainers

52:08

out there like you like I have all

52:10

the right Sentiment especially as an eating disorder

52:13

sufferer But to know there's someone

52:15

out there like you who's been in the

52:17

belly of the beast of the fitness Industries

52:19

come out and is now encouraging us towards

52:21

a healthier way. I so appreciate

52:23

your work and you're very

52:26

gentle shame-free Yes,

52:28

you can Mindset. Yeah, it's

52:30

this is what I want for everyone going

52:32

forward into this new year is a gentle

52:36

like gentle self encouragement. I'm so

52:38

sick of punishment being hyper normalized.

52:40

I Totally agree and

52:42

I actually love that way of describing what I

52:44

do It is gentle encouragement because

52:46

you know if I think of like the

52:48

idea of gentle parenting It's kind of gentle

52:50

parenting yourself into movement and it's going

52:53

for it's coming from a place of I'm good enough

52:55

And I'm worthy of this and you

52:58

know, I'm no one's allowed to take

53:00

this away from us It's a basic human

53:02

right I I take it We've been discouraged

53:04

away from us and made to believe that

53:06

it can be taken away Like there's anything

53:08

that could stop you from having the right

53:10

to just move your body. It's mad No,

53:12

totally and I get so frustrated You know

53:15

with the fitness base because it's so love

53:17

to demonize certain forms of movement as well

53:19

Like, you know, it's like you

53:21

don't hear much cardio. We all need to be

53:23

lifting weights or like you're doing too many weights

53:25

We should be doing this we should and it's

53:27

always someone who's like gonna I always like follow

53:30

the money And if they've got a plan to

53:32

sell then just be mindful of that if

53:34

they're demonizing certain things and telling you don't

53:37

do that do this because Ultimately

53:40

all movement counts. It should

53:42

be from a place of self-care And

53:44

if we're looking for longevity, then that's that's

53:47

really the way to approach it Like I said,

53:49

that isn't sexy that doesn't make people tons of

53:51

money Necessarily in the same

53:54

way, but what it does do is

53:56

I think like you say actually mean that people

53:58

can engage with movement in a meaningful way

54:01

in a hopefully harm

54:03

free way and

54:05

get them to enjoy it again. And it improves our society,

54:07

it's a happier society that we all get to live in.

54:09

I so agree with

54:12

you. I'm really happy that we've met and I'm really happy that

54:14

you and I are going to sit down in front of everyone

54:16

in a few weeks in London.

54:18

I hope everyone comes to my first little

54:21

exercise event. Never ever ever did I think

54:23

that I would be doing an exercise event

54:25

but I'm really happy that I found the

54:27

light. And now I have collaborators like Tally

54:29

and all the excellent people who will be

54:32

there that day to join

54:34

me to help us

54:36

like take exercise back. We need to democratise

54:38

exercise and we're going to do it together

54:40

and I adore you and

54:43

your work. So thank you for coming here

54:45

today. Happy fucking New Year. Yeah, happy New

54:47

Year and honestly thank you Jamila. Love what

54:49

you're doing, love bringing this conversation to a

54:51

wider platform, wider audience because you know it

54:54

sadly is kind of niche and it shouldn't

54:56

be. This should be mainstream so we're going

54:58

to make it mainstream together. 100%. Lots of

55:00

love. Yeah, to you too. Thank

55:06

you so much for listening to this week's

55:08

episode. I weigh with the community of my

55:10

house produced and researched by myself, community of

55:12

my house, Erin Finnegan, Kimi Gregory and Amelia

55:14

Chappellow. And the beautiful music that you are

55:16

hearing now is made by my boyfriend James

55:18

Blake. And if you haven't already, please rate,

55:20

review and subscribe to the show. It's such

55:22

a great way to show your support and

55:24

helping me out massively. And lastly at iWay

55:26

we would love to hear from you and

55:28

share what you weigh at the end

55:30

of this podcast. Please email us a

55:32

voice recording sharing what you weigh at

55:34

iWaypodcast.gmail.com. And now we

55:37

would love to pass the mic to one of our listeners.

55:39

I weigh being a caring sibling, a loving

55:41

child and a loyal friend. I weigh

55:44

being a cat parent and caretaker. I

55:47

weigh caring about things that are bigger than me and

55:50

committing myself to doing better. I weigh

55:53

the mistakes I've made and the lessons I've

55:55

learned. I weigh taking care

55:57

of myself even when it's hard. I

56:00

weigh being an advocate for mental health,

56:03

intersectional feminism, and education. I

56:05

weigh being a teacher as well as a lifelong

56:07

learner. I

56:09

weigh being a visibly proud,

56:12

queer, trans, and non-binary person.

56:15

I weigh having a strong work ethic. I

56:18

weigh graduating from a prestigious university program

56:20

and then pursuing a second degree. I

56:23

weigh good communication skills. I

56:26

weigh living through severe anxiety and panic attacks.

56:29

I weigh being a kind, empathetic,

56:32

passionate, compassionate, and

56:34

resilient human being.