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And carrier.com Carrier has been a long term

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very early on for us to do what

1:04

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to carrier.com. A

1:28

legend in his own mind. Your

1:30

favorite host of an eight Rak

1:32

training podcast based out of Claremont,

1:34

Florida. Bryant. Or hello hello

1:37

hello. This is the Hpc School podcast I

1:39

am Brian still sounding not great for can

1:41

are getting this voice back to normal but

1:43

in the meantime just have to deal with

1:45

it because it is what it is. Deborah

1:48

talking about condensate drains, install in service and

1:50

one thing about this talk. We. could

1:52

have talked for two more our so you're going

1:54

to notice and things that did get missed here

1:56

but we did cover a lot of good information

1:58

special guest roman bar Matthew Condren

2:01

with Kalos, one of

2:03

our lead technicians in Luke Peterson. Luke

2:05

is a business owner and a really great technician

2:08

out of Kentucky. We're just

2:10

talking about some Condensate Drain info. Great

2:13

one to share with maybe that new technician

2:15

who maybe does struggle at times with some

2:17

of the simple stuff with drains. Obviously, getting drains

2:19

right, especially in humid climates, makes a huge difference

2:22

in ensuring that we don't have costly callbacks

2:24

and damage to clients' houses. It's a really

2:26

important conversation. There we

2:28

go. Condensate Drain's install and service, Rowan

2:31

Vaugh, Matthew Condren, Luke Peterson, as

2:34

well as Adam and Matt. Hello,

2:36

everyone. I

2:39

wasn't even on the screen yet. This is a

2:41

mess that we have going on here. I

2:44

first want to say to everybody or

2:46

nobody who's watching because nobody's watching right

2:48

now that it's daylight saving time's problem.

2:52

We set it up before. Somehow, it changed it to 10

2:54

p.m. Anyway, we're still going

2:56

to talk about Condensate Drain's install and service

2:58

with our special guests, Rowan Vaugh, Matthew Condren,

3:00

and Luke Peterson. Roman's not even a special

3:02

guest because he's actually part of the regular

3:05

crew and he just never shows up because

3:07

he doesn't love us. I have a

3:09

full-time job. My boss is very demanding. Oh,

3:12

wow. Bit of a preemit on him. Yeah.

3:16

I guess I don't have a full-time job. Geez.

3:19

Fair enough. Luke Peterson is with

3:21

the maintenance department. They say the

3:23

name of your company, right, Luke?

3:27

In North Carolina or Kentucky?

3:29

Louisville, Kentucky. Kentucky. Sorry,

3:31

I said it wrong first, but Kentucky. Matt

3:34

is one of our senior technicians and

3:37

does a lot of the training and a lot

3:39

of the leadership for our residential team. It's exciting

3:41

to have Matt here. This

3:43

is going to be mostly Roman's show, but I'm

3:46

going to interrupt a lot as I always do.

3:48

Take it away, Roman. Here we

3:50

are. Condensate Drain's water. How

3:52

does that happen? No. No.

3:56

Condensate Drain's. So, this came up in

3:58

a big conversation where we've... Talk

4:00

about stuff. We didn't tell us a lot

4:02

when other easy companies but when it comes

4:04

back to come as a drained is always

4:06

that silent killer Great so it's that one

4:08

that know ever really talks about or sets

4:10

up correctly or goes through the motions of

4:12

just yard clean the drain okay that can't

4:14

be it as something that's causing the water

4:16

damage or the system to sort cycle when

4:19

so the topic of condensate changed his came

4:21

to the top of my mind for sorted

4:23

into the commercial side of stuff to was

4:25

recovering from my that so. I have

4:27

an idea how I want to start. I'm going to

4:29

ask luke salute you Do these The matter is a

4:31

natural right? Yes, The What

4:33

is the standard. Drain configuration that

4:35

you see in residential and Little Had a

4:37

drink terminate. What some of the typical set

4:40

up. We have a pretty broad

4:42

markets. we have obviously lot of your

4:44

handlers upload down flow. And. So

4:46

we have everything going to the

4:49

outdoors. Only of. Everything

4:51

from going to the outdoors to. Stuff.

4:53

Going into drains of going into.

4:56

An Attic been. It's a hodgepodge of

4:58

not all of it as code, so

5:00

most of the stuff that we deal

5:02

with is not trapped except on air

5:04

handlers. Or. Condensing furnaces

5:06

in half. The stuff on condensing

5:09

furnaces are not trapped. In.

5:12

The codes and regulation people appeared don't

5:14

really have an actual. Know.

5:16

That's right, You know that's wrong which is like

5:18

oh okay, just make sure it's falling towards the

5:21

during. So they can send markets

5:23

use him. always going to floor drains. We

5:25

have basement furnaces and are market obviously be

5:27

drain outside and we almost never have traps

5:29

is one of the big with a symposium

5:31

and people look at how we do it.

5:33

It drives me crazy because we just the

5:35

trap is just a big old under the

5:37

ground to a chase really isn't the right

5:39

way to do it but it's just who

5:42

are forced to do a lot of time

5:44

just because of headroom lot of and coils.

5:46

Adam what's typical your yeah I would say

5:48

mostly what you described earlier. most of our

5:50

furnaces are in a basement sometimes. Single

5:52

level ranch, but everything terminates into

5:54

a drain. Some. Older houses.

5:56

words like a retrofit set up where

5:59

you at and. You'll

6:01

have like an air handler in the attic and then

6:03

we pop out the side, one of the eaves and

6:05

then drain out the side of the house or something

6:08

like that. But we're pretty much

6:10

everything's in a floor drain. The only

6:12

thing that we trapped, like Luke

6:15

said, was air handlers for sure. You

6:18

don't really see anyone using the

6:20

secondary drain coils in the Midwest

6:22

here. So occasionally you'll see somebody

6:24

use a safety switch, but that's

6:27

what we usually just plug. And then how

6:29

about you Matt? Texas.

6:31

Texas Matt here. We call him a big

6:33

hat Matt. Big text here. Well we

6:35

got two Matt. We got big hat Matt and

6:37

we've got little hat Matt. I

6:41

don't know. Kind

6:44

of like everybody else has said, we got a little bit of

6:46

everything, but most of our stuff is attics

6:49

and it ties into the

6:52

plumbing either behind the

6:54

tub or behind

6:57

a sink in the bathroom. Oh

6:59

really? Yeah. So right

7:01

into your main plumbing. Interesting. And also we

7:03

lost Roman. So there he is. Oh

7:05

there he is. He's back. Goodness gracious.

7:08

Great vultifier. So

7:13

that's interesting tying into plumbing because the

7:15

concern always there is getting sewer gases

7:17

communicating into the AC system. But

7:20

obviously I guess then that just makes trapping that

7:22

much more important. So they put it right before

7:24

the sink P-trap. So the

7:26

sink P-trap always acts as

7:28

at least one trap. Interesting.

7:31

But still there's the possibility for you can

7:33

run a dry trap sometimes. Interesting.

7:36

And the reason why I wanted to start there

7:38

is to establish that there are significantly different norms

7:41

in different markets. So especially when you talk about

7:43

drain cleaning, you'll get like massive

7:45

variety and also in terms of trapping, venting,

7:47

all that kind of thing. So

7:49

I just wanted to tee that up. So Roman, I'd like

7:51

you to go and take it away on this slide here

7:53

and what you have here to describe something that's so pet

7:56

peeve for you. This is a bit of a pet peeve

7:58

of mine just because I think it's It

8:00

is one of those things that I've always

8:02

gotten hung up on out the field social

8:04

commercial equipment so. There's. This

8:06

rule of thumb that we go out there and we

8:09

just build trust is. Two. Inches it as

8:11

rules. Arms on his two inches were

8:13

good, but people don't really consider them

8:15

on commercial equipment, especially when you've got.

8:17

So. Many different things tied into the return air

8:20

he got balancing dampers you've got a fresh year

8:22

or modulating fresh year where it it's opening and

8:24

closing also based upon another damper that opens and

8:26

closes on the return out as you can have

8:28

all these different restrictions on a system that creates

8:30

high status and so the purpose of a trap

8:33

is to reduce the amount of air being sucked

8:35

into a line, allowing water to drain and have

8:37

a system. And. So there

8:39

isn't really any one size fits all

8:41

on commercial equipment which we have our

8:43

lives without Towards this very and but.

8:46

We're. Talking about Commercial equipment.

8:48

Commercial equipment Specifically. There.

8:50

Is one rule of thumb, but you can always

8:52

go by and I will never be an issue.

8:55

And that discharge year. So. When we

8:57

talk about trapping systems you obviously want to

8:59

size or condensate line on commercial equipment to

9:01

the size of the installation many calls are

9:03

typically it's the connection to the one inch.

9:06

Very. Real easy can be to angeles was

9:08

really big stuff but it comes down to

9:10

static pressure in the actual return A or

9:12

assembly of the unit itself right where the

9:14

coil his house where that negative static pressures

9:16

gonna be within the system. And.

9:19

So based upon that static of your system

9:21

because we got large commercial systems out there

9:23

and tell a packs on roofs that do

9:25

hotel high rises and. These. Giant

9:27

banquet areas for hotels. And

9:30

you'll find that their high pressure static systems of

9:32

the A bosses with the fans are designed around

9:34

constantly and the filters are being neglected. And so

9:37

you got all these other additional things tied in

9:39

the back end of the systems where they're designed

9:41

to operate it you into the static. But

9:43

as soon as the filters start to get slammed

9:45

in that system on afford it on system that

9:47

strategist climbs and it climbs and he climbs to

9:50

the point where your static now overcomes that trap

9:52

on that system and and you sucker punch a

9:54

water into the return air and it comes falling

9:56

out of the banquet system. Think that whole area

9:58

and they say oh yeah well. Was just

10:00

because the drain was caught that the water

10:02

feature you pay a lot of money for

10:04

that stuff. Why is everybody complains about? I

10:06

don't know why I'm here in Florida, the

10:09

armpit of the U S. I guess. Words

10:11

were extremely humid here. Very, very humid and

10:13

so we're always generating large amounts of condensate.

10:15

And. So for stuff like this, when you have a

10:18

drain the backs up on a commercial system, I would

10:20

implore you. What's the static on the unit? what is

10:22

it actually looking like to assure you can clean the

10:24

drain Lie. But you want to walk away competent, knowing

10:26

that there isn't going to be a call back on

10:28

a system where you're not going to have. Three.

10:30

To four call backs to that specific systems were and

10:32

this to be a little drip. Only a little bit

10:34

of waters escaping a system and the rest is overflowing

10:36

out of a pan and it takes a week before

10:38

it starts to flood the ceiling again. You

10:40

go through this message here you never know to

10:42

Maine and skies like to change in close dampers

10:44

the willy nilly and construction happens to buildings and

10:46

systems get changed and no one goes back and

10:49

read commission's those giant systems that are on the

10:51

roof right? We do it all the time. were

10:53

doing work right now with you do shell build

10:55

else. They. Put these giant massive package units

10:57

on the roof forty time until a pack and

10:59

then they build out different parts of the building

11:01

on different floors. A poor here ten for they

11:04

in in in four years everybody's full unoccupied but

11:06

as in one go back to actually reach Mission

11:08

that system that supplies all of us floors to

11:10

ensure that is actually has a deep enough trap

11:12

or did they just toss it in because they

11:15

thought this is a good fit? Sure she mentions

11:17

we're going to go see make a good point

11:19

which is the connection between in this is because

11:21

a lot a commercial talking and people like way

11:23

that I'm new commercial by the truth still applies.

11:26

Everywhere is that there is this connection

11:28

between static pressure and a lot of

11:30

drain issues and it obviously more on

11:32

fan coils in their handlers. That's where

11:34

you see more of it. but you

11:36

can get into some pretty in places

11:38

where you even get water blow off

11:40

with velocity and other applications as well.

11:42

So there is this connection between airflow,

11:44

static pressure, and drain. And so when

11:46

you're experiencing a weird drain issue. Looking.

11:49

Good airflow and looking a static pressure is really

11:51

key but trap depth as big so on this

11:53

chart. Because. I don't think I even understand

11:55

it. That was weird like and the standard of understanding

11:57

will have. I don't understand the nobody does but if

11:59

I'm. It correctly so it's for and so it

12:01

a negative. Four inches wider com the one right

12:03

at the bottom you have a five inch death

12:05

trap. What is the two and a half is

12:07

at the rise back up. Where's that Yeah travel

12:09

to and a half is the rise back up

12:11

so that much water we want to trap in

12:13

that line to create that seal in the drain

12:15

my to allow it to gravity feed our and

12:17

not for air back into the like it saw

12:20

him. For. Screamed at that weight of

12:22

water is enough to overcome that amount of static,

12:24

which the whole purpose of this. Guy.

12:26

Into the trap more water we can hold. Have.

12:29

You the water they are. Brian to

12:31

your point about the other static issues

12:33

related to drains. I guess a rule

12:35

that I have as if the drain

12:37

is working. don't touch it. Like don't

12:39

ever try to fix a drain. Felix.

12:41

All put a cap on this of her cat

12:43

on this event right here and save him like

12:46

five Cfm of air and then what will happen

12:48

at this has happened me several times. I'll

12:50

put a cap on that and it adds

12:52

enough static pressure. Wizards blowing out. Of

12:55

the secondary drain and filling up there drain

12:57

pan and so than a couple days later

12:59

though Collins said that there is water dripping

13:01

outside of their house so one of my

13:04

roses like if it's working, try not to

13:06

touch it. Okay, okay

13:08

I'll push that a little bit on that's easier.

13:10

varieties of things that can happen like you can

13:12

have a and actually this goes back to boy

13:15

I just had his memory. Of getting

13:17

called into the President or Cfl or

13:19

not seatbelts you poverty office at the

13:21

prior company that I worked at because.

13:24

I went to an old house. And

13:26

I queen the jury now and then. it wouldn't

13:28

drain. And. I sound a double

13:30

trap because he was running through this long

13:32

attic. And it turned out that this guy

13:35

was a friend of the owner. And. I

13:37

was like to have to solve this double trap

13:39

or whatever I remember. He took me want to

13:41

figured out so just became a thing And he's

13:43

like how could a drain that's been raining for

13:45

whatever. How many years eight years of a sudden

13:47

get a double draft? And. I'm a

13:49

sometimes when that because it's been filled with

13:51

water. Then you suck all the water out

13:53

and now you have these air gaps that

13:55

now become present so I think it's still

13:57

good. Probably understand and look at the. Applications

14:00

but your point. There are some weird

14:02

things that can occur at really want

14:04

to most common areas. The confusion is

14:06

this whole trapping benthic. So.

14:09

What's the purpose of a van? How's that? Different

14:11

than a queen out? So who has to take

14:13

that one? Otherwise I'll assign it. but anybody want

14:15

to take that one that trap vs then conversation.

14:17

I. Could do it. Now. Adam So if

14:20

you look at the image on the

14:22

last the one with a big red

14:24

axis of do not do it has

14:26

a T with event before the traps

14:28

A What ends up happening there if

14:30

you're drain is on. The. Basically

14:32

negative pressure drain. you're pulling through

14:34

the evaporated coil. so the whole

14:37

purpose of the trap is to

14:39

try to block the air coming

14:41

back. If. You have the trap open like

14:43

that, you're going to suck air through the t. And.

14:46

Basically you're not gonna allow the water to

14:48

drain out with the best when it's a

14:51

this. It. Just fills up and then

14:53

the water flutters inside of the drain pen until

14:55

it will spill over. And then if you look

14:57

at the image on the right. Result

14:59

Path for the air to get

15:01

back into the evaporator. so. The

15:04

water just lose out freely to the trap. The.

15:06

Water is blocking the air and then

15:08

the event is after the trap. So.

15:11

The that will allow the water to

15:13

drain. And. The opposite side of

15:15

the drain line. When. I mean that

15:17

like concisely, as you did in. One of the

15:19

things that I want to add though is if

15:22

anybody's looking at this and getting confused, this is

15:24

not a clean out gang. A clean out is

15:26

always kept. A man's is

15:28

never kept. To. Two different things

15:30

to clean out would go right at the

15:32

top of it. In fact Eminem of Do

15:34

a Difference Vitamin A, break my own rule

15:36

and scan through neural could just you can

15:38

see is Marva residential configuration. You see

15:41

that clean out goes before the trap and using just

15:43

kind of on that downward part of the key to

15:45

that was you can easily clean this trap. And

15:47

then on the other side of the trap is

15:49

where you put that. But. What's the reason

15:52

for the man? That's the question that a lot

15:54

of people have because he liked in Florida. Matt

15:56

We don't see this very often. I almost never

15:58

see it in residential. What's the point. That

16:00

that's because. If. There are any

16:02

additional traps or if you're going into a

16:04

common drain assembly, you don't. When it's become

16:06

airlocks, you don't want there to be basically

16:09

a bubble of air trapped in between the

16:11

traps that then for events that water from

16:13

traveling out because air is when it's later.

16:15

Than water and so it's going to want to

16:17

travel up when the water's going out and will

16:20

actually create a lock their and so that allows

16:22

that to be relieved. But you still

16:24

prevents and isolates that negative air pressure.

16:27

From. The air handler side to the actual drain

16:29

assembly which again you see this a lot in

16:31

some markets. This is the standard way they do

16:33

it every multifamily cases. We have com and drains

16:35

and you really need to do it this way

16:37

or any time to. There's the possibility of having

16:39

another trap downstream from it. Nine. To decide

16:41

whether to when you're working with something like this, you

16:43

also have to remember that when you're tying into a

16:45

com and dragged you don't know what else is in

16:47

that common trait or were that train line is right

16:50

is in the middle are we? at the end of

16:52

the trainer at the beginning of the drain. We had

16:54

a commercial project, we did a retrofit recently and we

16:56

had to cut into the middle of a common trait

16:58

and so this was the practice that we follow to

17:00

ensure that we were gonna create a double trapper, some

17:02

airlock or you never know what's going on right? It's

17:04

who have high comes into the wall and other things

17:06

tie into it and goes to a wall. We have

17:08

no clue where it goes rich at bottom of the

17:10

elevation or. Your of where it starts and so

17:12

it's one of those things reaches better safe

17:14

than sorry. When. It comes up I guess.

17:17

I. Like to think of it this way like if

17:19

you're gonna talk about an air vent airlock, think

17:21

of it like if you've ever had a glass

17:23

of water and you put a strong in the

17:25

water, you put your finger on top of the

17:27

straw. The water doesn't flow freely. It's the same

17:29

concept of you will take your finger off the

17:31

waterfalls and of the straw that. Allowed

17:34

to equalize. The So. Look, I

17:36

want you to talk a little bit about you

17:38

too. Dissimilar commercials, most resonant. We're at least have

17:40

yet to talk through some the things you've seen

17:42

in terms of a trap vent. Things in the

17:45

areas where you seen challenges are issues. I

17:47

would say eighty percent will we do

17:49

and commercial area is rooftop units and

17:51

the biggest issue we have. With.

17:54

Rooftop units are there being a

17:56

trap or. Hype: At all

17:58

because what it was left. It. And.

18:00

Browse But the trap and we go

18:02

there. To. Their what ceiling

18:05

tiles and. It's polan, a lot

18:07

of air and you the drank a lot of

18:09

commercial ripped up units have one answer: larger drains

18:11

and so that they can pull in quite a.

18:14

Volume. Of air I did have one

18:16

restaurant. They. Refused to run the makeup

18:18

air, And. The. Building

18:20

was wildly negative. I never did measure

18:22

it, but the building muscle negative that

18:24

even with the traps. The. Water was

18:27

not able to create enough. so basically I'm

18:29

still a draft of the water that the

18:31

units a drain in and pull the water

18:33

back in the store. And so

18:35

I turned on the makeup aired from

18:37

Went Away. But. Most of that

18:39

is drains right on the roof every once in

18:41

awhile ago and to common dreams Chick fillet. Is.

18:44

Really good about draining all of the water

18:46

off the roof. Seattle gets where. They.

18:48

Practice this like a slide here. They

18:50

practice that on all of the Koreans,

18:52

all of junctions. They have really good

18:54

betting. And. Clean out everywhere.

18:57

I mean, it's quite a work of art. Do.

18:59

We expect anything less than Six way. He

19:01

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19:03

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19:06

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20:47

I want to go ahead and segue quickly. I

20:49

want to hit a lot of these topics and

20:51

a high level and then we will circle back

20:53

and go a little bit deeper by. Matt hasn't

20:55

had a chance to talk get so mad, talk

20:57

a little bit about his in residential in Central

20:59

Florida. high humidity, drains or major problem. What?

21:01

Are some of the big things from what

21:03

you see day in and day out that

21:06

are really important on the drain side and

21:08

it could even be things up your top.

21:10

Tips: Waning and getting into filtration Buy toys

21:12

a big thing for me just maintaining cleanliness,

21:15

routine maintenance, or the a lot of coil

21:17

cleanings. Viper. Sprays is really

21:19

good, probably diluted are spot on.

21:21

Hands I do math France raise.

21:24

A good vacuum when I do any

21:26

drain cleanings, make sure I use hot

21:28

water through the policy line a reference

21:30

when I do my training with apprentices.

21:33

You're not gonna wash dishes in cold water

21:35

or so why? you get a clear drain

21:37

without eating hot water. That could

21:39

help alleviate and break up any of

21:42

that stubborn contaminants as well as is

21:44

painted sentence your senses with as. most

21:47

of our during my should go under the house.

21:49

And then X outside. so.

21:52

If. It doesn't sound right. Investigate

21:54

where there's possible blockage, especially

21:57

if it's a long horizontal

21:59

application. Don't be afraid to

22:01

cut PVC and really investigate. Yeah,

22:03

I like that. And that's actually my old saying

22:06

that Eric Vincent still posts a lot on social

22:08

media is clean until it's clean. Kind of like

22:10

you said, if you notice something that's abnormal, if

22:12

you notice a drain that's doing the like drain,

22:15

stop, drain, stop. A lot of times that's a

22:17

sign of a double trap where you have this like column of

22:19

water that's building up and then it drains and the column of

22:21

water building up and then it drains, which is a sign of

22:23

an issue. But also

22:25

I like to practice, and I talk about this a

22:27

lot of just looking down in the tea. When you

22:29

have this configuration and you can see down in the

22:32

trap, obviously, if you have something like an easy trap

22:34

or wherever where you can visually see it, then that's

22:36

different. But in a lot of our

22:38

cases, it just goes straight down and then it's going

22:40

underground and that's your trap. And you can sometimes

22:42

look down in there and you can see if you have a lot of gunk build up

22:45

and it's really good to as much as possible.

22:47

You mentioned cleanliness, which I think is big, something

22:49

that a lot of people don't think about in

22:51

drain cleaning. Do you have a good quality filter?

22:53

Is it being changed properly regularly? Do you

22:55

have gaps and cracks where it's pulling

22:57

in air, bypassing the filter and potentially

23:00

getting in the drain and causing issues?

23:02

But those are all really big things. Do

23:04

you guys get into cleaning the primary drain

23:06

pans as well, particularly like in Florida where

23:08

you guys – What do you mean

23:10

by that? Do we get into it? Do we actually open

23:12

the cabinet and actually clean the inside of the drain pan,

23:14

you mean? Yeah, that's something that's probably a lot less common

23:17

where I am. And sometimes you'll see things

23:19

build up even before the actual drain and

23:21

get stuck in the pan and stuff like

23:24

that, especially on older units.

23:26

I think closet units

23:28

have worse drains just because they're

23:30

closer to the ground when they pick up

23:32

more dirt. Oh, meaning because they're using like

23:34

direct return type applications? Yeah. And

23:37

that actually does tend to be true. Yeah, so you just

23:39

see a lot more stuff in there. So particularly

23:41

if it's like in a closet or something,

23:44

I'm more likely and you

23:46

see more issues In closet

23:48

units. I Don't know how to say this guy's name,

23:50

but he says the proper way is to flow cleaner

23:52

from inside the unit. That's one of our practices is

23:54

to use water and actually flow it through the drain

23:56

pan. I'll let you take that again, Matt, because obviously

23:58

you do a lot of that. Talk

24:00

through that process of cleaning the

24:02

actual primary drain and again when

24:05

I'm training. We've removed both panel

24:07

so. Upper blower panel and

24:09

then coil panel. if there's

24:11

any build up with and that drain pan.

24:14

My. Next thing is I will be

24:16

cutting that horizontal application. Because.

24:18

More likely if is already built up enough and

24:20

that drink and. There's also built

24:22

up in that pvc that I find a

24:25

we do flow cleaner on the coil because

24:27

the comedy stars on the coil not on

24:29

the. Ensuring. That we have

24:32

enough cleaner on that while it's running. Hot

24:34

water through the pans, either panto

24:36

traps for brushes through the channels.

24:39

Run hot water at minimum four gallons

24:41

through the drain pan. And

24:43

then we focus on the service t after

24:45

that so tells you how big of a

24:47

deal dreams or or market capitalism hundred stuff

24:49

an area and so what mass talking about

24:52

as the to commit this horizontal portion that

24:54

even before it goes down. If. It's

24:56

really bad inside then it's gonna be important

24:58

their my practice when I was doing and

25:00

I wasn't very quite as extreme as were

25:02

matched teaching now, but I would always try

25:05

as best I could try to feed. Small

25:07

brushes are like you said, zip ties and

25:09

it stretches, break it up and then flowing

25:11

that water from in that primary fan as

25:13

you have their bagman. the outside is in

25:16

our market. You. Always have access. Almost always

25:18

have access to the end of the drains. See.

25:20

To connect to shot back to that and

25:22

so he gets more velocity. but using something

25:25

like he that plus. On the

25:27

map, recoil and then at the end we use

25:29

the pin and spray to give it a little

25:31

bit longer life. Keep that from growing again, but

25:33

it's just such a growth based issue and are

25:35

market. What about you lose? Talk through some of

25:37

your basic maintenance reclining prices and it's okay. That's

25:39

not the same because we know every markets old.

25:42

We. Got do a lot of system that

25:44

really poor filtration. Were. Dealing with.

25:47

Not just the. Slime. In

25:49

the dream, but we're dealing with li

25:51

sediment in currency stuff. It's hard and

25:53

so we end up draining are changing

25:55

pretty much and every install in some

25:57

T M's will end up changing. The

26:00

line sort of. it's not terribly long, promo

26:02

evaporator. All we ought to the either the

26:04

floored rain or outside. And then. Try.

26:07

To recommend the user or upgrade

26:09

their filter system to try to

26:11

prolong that. Suffer. From

26:13

building up as as thick as a

26:15

gifts. but we really don't get that.

26:18

Is. Huge burgers like you guys do in

26:20

Florida. We. Get a fair amount

26:22

but it's cumulative over many, many

26:24

years, not overseas and and so typically

26:27

our dream lines are really short.

26:29

Also, I would say the average is

26:31

probably no one in ten feet

26:33

summer longer and so do not. Terribly

26:35

difficult to clean out and will

26:37

use anything from. The cleaners on

26:40

our truck to shop back to such a lot

26:42

of pounds on. How. The end of

26:44

it looks And how the evaporator pam? What's.

26:47

Actually, I want to mention this to Adam

26:49

to cause in other markets where you do

26:51

a lot more different configurations or even like

26:53

what you're talking about Matt: a lot of

26:55

times people will blow out drains. I'm not

26:57

a fan blowing out drains unless you have

26:59

to for the reason. Mentioned here and

27:01

again. there's a difference between of your small company

27:04

and you're doing it yourself and you're like a

27:06

twenty year experience. tack and you can get a

27:08

sense but when you're young you have younger tax

27:10

you don't aren't as experience to give my Jurgen

27:12

nitrogen it's a go at it was are blown

27:15

out drains or a too much more likely that

27:17

are going do damage your it's gonna blow back

27:19

on something or blinds of these new Porsche or

27:21

whatever and and I have an issue so it's

27:24

always a concern. Isis you Adam you typically blah

27:26

drains or do you typically use brushes with traps

27:28

at the furnace or what's typical Pm I would

27:30

say. For the longest time I actually

27:32

did have that little visit. The C O

27:34

two cartridge thing where you'd large i'm a

27:36

gun and. Yeah and I use there

27:39

for quite awhile And then I found like

27:41

an attachment online I should have added this

27:43

was slides. It's just like a little attachment

27:45

that's that's on the end of a vacuum

27:47

and then it connect. On. To.

27:49

Multiple size Pvc thirteen so it's like

27:51

a perfect seal and then it's got

27:53

a clear section. You can see what's

27:55

coming out so works. Really nice. So.

27:58

I've been using the vacuum most of the time. Whenever

28:00

I trap anything on a job that we install,

28:02

we would use the easy trap just because it's

28:04

clear and you have a little brush. Their. Most.

28:07

Of the time, like Will Luke was

28:09

saying, our drains are pretty darn short

28:11

and it says right down into the

28:14

drain so we don't have. A.

28:16

Lot of issues with like

28:18

seasonal. Problems. In this

28:20

and that there are certain houses where it's like

28:22

I know we're going to have an issue. So

28:25

it's like every year every two years will do

28:27

maintenance and the drain flush out and that. But

28:29

overall it's like. Five.

28:31

Ten years before we ever see an

28:33

issue by us. There's a lot a

28:35

regional variation I can I ask quickly

28:38

with Adam the like, but you do

28:40

have a lot more because you have

28:42

furnaces. See, you have a lot of

28:44

furnace condensate. You have any like cleaning

28:46

needs their do you get more issues

28:48

on that side? Absolutely. So that's actually

28:50

a pretty big deal. Most of the

28:53

furnaces most of those drain traps are

28:55

internal to the furnace. Some of the

28:57

newer model they have the drain trips

28:59

on the outside Carrier had a model.

29:01

Drain trap. Train. Had one.

29:03

There is a couple in particular that.

29:06

They. Just collected a lot of dirt so there

29:08

you have to go in and you gotta

29:10

fill em up with water. And.

29:12

Garlic shaken. ease hot water and just go

29:14

at it to speakers and it's like what

29:16

you said, Clean until it's clean. Because.

29:19

You just keep getting garbage out. For.

29:21

Five minutes but yeah, you get a pressure

29:23

switch. Air. If. You don't clean

29:25

the train trip and the furnace. If

29:28

is he has drained traps really dirty. It should. Consider.

29:30

The Collector box? Well, we bet a lot of

29:32

linux. For. doctrines at the collector

29:35

boss as the all the hoses that

29:37

lead to the drain trip to that's

29:39

always a good thing to flush out

29:41

as well and certain furnaces overtime those

29:43

hoses that connect to the drain drab

29:46

they will deteriorate so you should always

29:48

take those apartments spectrum is will get

29:50

dry rotted so those are mean it's

29:52

items that you should be looking at

29:54

replace in as needed so here we

29:57

pretty much only blow things out with

29:59

nitrogen because The other side of

30:01

the drain is tied into the plumbing for the

30:03

house. So there's really no other access to it

30:06

So it can be and somebody had

30:08

a good comment here Just about it

30:10

just blowing out gunk all over some

30:13

homeowners nice stuff So I always

30:15

put like a towel in the sink I was

30:17

always super careful make sure you know where that

30:19

drain goes and then put a towel in the

30:21

sink and then I put Like a bucket I

30:23

put a little bucket of all my PVC fittings

30:25

and I'll put that on top of it And

30:27

then I go up and I'll cut the drain

30:29

line with my shop back bucket underneath it To

30:31

let all that extra water drain in there and then I'll

30:33

put one of these Jones valves on it Just so that

30:35

if I ever have to come back again I don't have

30:37

to cut into their drain to clean it out And

30:40

then yeah one of the big things for me is

30:42

always just make sure that if you clear

30:44

a drain and then you go and you look in

30:47

The sink or in the

30:49

tub. Usually there's like a splatter of stuff

30:51

if I don't see that somewhere That's

30:54

a red flag to me of hey like I

30:56

just cleared a drain and I'm not seeing any

30:58

debris come out I would say nine times out

31:00

of ten if I have that happen

31:03

and I'm like, oh well and I just

31:05

walk away I'm back within a week and

31:07

it turns out there was two tied together

31:09

when it blew out some other unit somewhere

31:11

or something like That so I just try

31:13

to be really really diligent with clearing out

31:15

drains Because I have blown joints

31:17

apart before it. Sometimes there's just nothing else you

31:20

can do I mean I've had to like cut

31:22

out big sections of pipe that were just full

31:24

of rust from two or

31:26

three Iterations of air conditioners that

31:28

had been up in the attic So you

31:30

just have to be really careful, but sometimes there's only

31:32

so much you can do before you have to do

31:35

something Jurassic and

31:37

you never really know either So I've done

31:39

two-story houses before back in residential

31:41

work and cookie cutter houses There's always that

31:43

one line that was never glued in the

31:45

wall And then the homeowner never gets

31:47

the maintenance on the house and you're there six seven years

31:50

later trying to blow a drain out That just won't back

31:52

you no matter what you do and you go to blow

31:54

it out and it blows the line apart That's not glued

31:56

in the wall between the second floor and the first floor

31:58

and either cut and dry While out to go

32:01

and an exit the cracks with the first

32:03

time so I want to ask quickly cause

32:05

they're a lot of different versions of this

32:07

type of out different assemblies ones that you

32:09

can states and adapter down in to blow

32:11

out on the other side of the shot

32:13

back. My objection is I never like gaseous

32:15

flushes so any C O two nitrogen anything

32:17

like that just because it doesn't have mass

32:19

so he can blow out sediment the to

32:21

lose that things that are a little bit

32:23

more stock on things like water tend to

32:25

do better but you have good luck with

32:28

this is a user the Jesus sometimes. Math.

32:30

So. If the lines already full of water than it's

32:33

great. Good. Point right? But. Yeah I

32:35

mean if you're going out and doing a maintenance and

32:37

you're like a monocle are you drain and you just

32:39

connect your home to at you Boston? I didn't do

32:41

the drain yeah that really doing much So I'll have

32:44

to put this before the trap. And. Then

32:46

I'll have a vent so you could

32:48

pour just a bottle of water down

32:50

there and then chase it really quick

32:52

with nitrogen. So the nitrogen, the pressure

32:54

and than the water like you said

32:56

actually has some nasty. That said suggesting

32:58

a gaseous flush. Ness Agassiz flush that

33:00

somewhere that I just came up with

33:02

it and like anybody else who use

33:04

anything like this or something similar like

33:06

you go into an application and now

33:08

to make it easier for next time

33:11

anything else anyone does. The only thing

33:13

we use pressure on his copper. Or

33:15

solder during lunch. We will not

33:17

use pressure unless it's a very

33:19

extreme. Circumstances. We just can't

33:22

get to it. But. Most. A timer.

33:24

I'd rather put a fish tape down there and

33:26

try to wiggle Elton. Risk. Lawyer Y

33:29

no in somebody's home. Of

33:31

fish take down and wiggle without. Skyn

33:33

I like that said he says p C removable

33:35

unions are awesome for making clean out sanctions and

33:38

I do like that idea Now essentially something and

33:40

I was going to mention a mad at if

33:42

we are cutting then it probably would be a

33:44

good idea to put a union and so next

33:46

time you don't have to cut. The only downside

33:48

is course union is possibly point be watch not

33:50

have a symbol on but it's interesting to me

33:52

with drains how different. Like. Every one

33:54

applies it, but ultimately still the same.

33:57

Basic. Principles you'd have a way to clean

33:59

it. he didn't a weird going. I really

34:01

like that I need to make sure you

34:03

know where it's going. That was the thing

34:05

I always said on or commercial teams we

34:07

have com and rains a lot of number

34:09

since the connected together and especially be less

34:11

self storage site. you do not want a

34:14

bunch of crap blowing out on top of

34:16

some buddies antiques from grandma but on the

34:18

main insiders been a lot to talk about.

34:20

the viper pan drains gray. We've had a

34:22

lot of questions about the tablet, silver, copper,

34:24

hand Hills, any thoughts opinions on that are

34:26

any products that you particularly like. My.

34:28

Dad is really good filter. Yeah.

34:32

This is what malice saying to yes, that's

34:34

actually something. One. Of the upgrades that

34:36

I would love to see people do more as like

34:38

foreign media filters save you can. Make.

34:41

An alteration and go to a foreign media

34:43

filter. I like this. Where did this image

34:45

come from? Roman did Ricardo make this way?

34:47

Yes Ricardo made it was he was lawyer

34:49

that you have the idea for it by

34:52

yes it's a very dramatic either surprise. He

34:54

was never like a spatial up an avid

34:56

you assess assess. Right

34:59

about that he checks for them and it does get

35:01

like the sometimes of a i have learned a thing.

35:04

Yeah, but now it's your point about the chemicals rate.

35:06

so I've seen it's where everyone does it one of

35:08

the time ago. a little tablet every time they do

35:10

as. President and sometimes in small quantities. it doesn't do

35:12

anything but. and let's talk about their extreme of the

35:15

people who go out there and they say I don't

35:17

ever come back to the suit against, I'm sure to

35:19

jump the entire bottle in the drain. Pam and so

35:21

what we do as we end up turning it into

35:23

like a giant pot of like acid. That.

35:25

Actually starts to eat away at the base of the

35:27

coil. Sometimes I've seen it on the commercial side when

35:30

he comes. like the or essence of that where you'll

35:32

see the drain pan with they never trap the unit

35:34

correctly or that reminds aren't running at the right elevation

35:36

and so the water was never going to drown out

35:38

the first place and they think it's a slight problem

35:40

and so they just load the pans up. Upon

35:43

A Chemicals in Atlanta tablets and they just rinse

35:45

the coils with tons of chemicals, never wash them

35:47

appropriately, web of chemicals never make it out of

35:49

the unit to the to drain problem and it

35:51

comes back into the unit and an it eats

35:53

away the base of the quail and they get

35:55

tons and tons of leagues. And then they want

35:57

to blame the equipment for the premature failures and.

36:00

It was just. The trains were never installed

36:02

correctly and so you're never gonna fix the initial.

36:04

Probably just a bandaid. So. That's extreme of

36:06

the pan tablets right that I've seen in the field

36:08

at least my sieges. I don't have a problem with

36:10

them as long as you're properly applied. The problem is

36:12

is like you get much pants absolutely in a putting

36:14

him in a pan and then like it actually gets

36:17

at the outlet it blocks the drain. We have a

36:19

new tech just drops it down into the trap and

36:21

it ends of blocking is our way and I have

36:23

seen just dumb Zeppelin properly applied. Therefore,

36:26

They're using that can hurt somebody. Old school ones

36:28

actually had chlorine in I'm I don't think any

36:30

of the newer ones have that tude. Unlikely to

36:32

have a lot of issues with it, but one

36:34

of the thing we used andres Gray from Viper.

36:36

Some people say whether the last for a long

36:38

while again you're not going have an expectation that

36:40

can last forever, but we've had good luck with

36:42

it. One. Of the things that Chuck

36:44

mentioned was Silver Copper and we have run

36:46

into when we have cases where you know

36:48

it's nuclear. So it's like

36:50

this: continuous really? do he stopped that?

36:53

you get. Suspicion: Certain Douglas units we've

36:55

used things like I saw her braising rod and

36:57

a little bit a cop or just taking a

36:59

small piece. A copper up truck pounding it flattens

37:01

dropping in in there, and it does have an

37:04

effect. Does. It have enough of an effect

37:06

that it the problem. Bent. On

37:08

how bad it is and again you don't want to do

37:10

anything is going to build up the water level significantly which

37:12

is why say about it flat as use a little bit.

37:15

But. We have had cases where. Is.

37:17

It causation or correlation? I don't know, but

37:19

it does seem to reduce the issue in

37:21

again. it can't hurt. That's actually one of

37:23

the reasons why. This. From has gotten

37:25

so much worse and this is undisputed. Is

37:28

that when aluminum coils all of them

37:30

and coils came out you no longer

37:32

had the fact that copper pat on

37:34

the growth of bacteria. That are we

37:36

certainly some warm an issue with all them and pulled from

37:38

You can attest to that right Matt that it became a

37:41

lot worse with all of them. Nor. Am

37:43

I. Yeah. For yeah, yeah. Yeah,

37:45

no hostility. He didn't see the difference

37:47

of units when it's the older models

37:49

with that proper. Route. Maybe once

37:52

a year to do this or routine

37:54

maintenance versus the newer systems that are

37:56

all aluminum. Sometimes. It's multiple

37:58

times a year that were out there. During

38:00

like. So. That be significant amounts

38:02

were something like put in some pieces a

38:04

copper are some hi summer and that can

38:07

help and again we're not even the worst.

38:09

Still, a Central Florida is not the worst.

38:11

South East Florida is the home of like

38:13

mass the and now they're coming out with

38:16

systems that actually dose you, actually tie it

38:18

into the pan or into the drain, is

38:20

actually doses cleaner, or an anti bacterial, anti

38:22

fungal, antibacterial antimicrobial into the drain and the

38:25

like or it will keep it clear that

38:27

way and that's probably gonna end up being.

38:30

The. Solution now that we have a woman coils

38:32

and that market. but in Central Florida sometimes the

38:34

stuff. To. Work of these other

38:36

thing. I'm

38:39

I'm sorry about the game changing

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school.com Feisty Frost said to each

39:38

V C R school.com/thesis. I'm

39:42

going to back it up now Roman and talk a

39:44

little about some other things. so like pitch on drains,

39:46

anything else that you have on your list, it's worth

39:48

talking about here. So. Pitch on,

39:50

drain. It all depends on your

39:53

local minutes tally code. most supermarkets

39:55

one eighth of whatever your unit

39:57

measurement is, so if it's phones

39:59

and internet, That to your pets here,

40:01

slope for downhill and you'd says one of those

40:03

things where if you're not sure and it's borderline

40:05

pulitzer level and maybe we find a new way

40:07

to reroute you drink as lot of people out

40:10

there that they get those long mindsets through addicts

40:12

and when we have a lot here and even

40:14

commercial realm where sometimes you can see it go

40:16

through multiple walls but you have to remember that

40:18

there's two sides to that. You want to be

40:21

sure it's pitch correctly, but then there's the support

40:23

side of it. And so when we talk about

40:25

schedule forty pipe over time it will work if

40:27

it's not supported correctly. A matter of those double

40:29

chops. Commits so sure the project ring

40:32

great. It's. All their drains

40:34

are are pouring out perfectly and and five

40:36

years down the road with the alex been

40:38

like hundred and twenty degrees five times and

40:40

road rather summer that that pipe actually gets

40:43

very decent sagged route it and I've had

40:45

ten on apartment complexes there on the twelfth

40:47

floor and it's all. Low access ceilings

40:49

where you can get to the hard lid and

40:51

and.concrete A concrete is nine feet and the apartments

40:53

yelling seven feet or maybe beneath the that. You're

40:55

not going to get in there to get back

40:57

to that pipe. And they have nothing

41:00

but rain problematic drain, problematic drain from and

41:02

eventually have to go the route of just

41:04

ditching the drain line and going with a

41:06

high volume. Comments: A pump. They can actually

41:08

pushed through those double traps to make that

41:10

draining and it's sad to see it go

41:12

that way. but a lot of that can

41:14

be prevented through best installation practices and we

41:16

talk about strapping that line every six feet

41:18

in some applications. even a dream. The dream

41:20

on how big the pipe is, where we're

41:22

going through and your actual elevation changes site

41:24

that so. It's always well as

41:26

usual. be mindful of such as what

41:28

am I doing today? It's what's the

41:30

lifespan of this gonna look like overtime

41:33

for were to install that So I'm

41:35

curious regionally how often you mentioned kind.

41:37

It's a pumps Roman visit a thing

41:39

every word is a room kind of

41:41

use kind it's a pounds In certain

41:43

situations are the more common and and

41:45

then they had is everyone maintain their

41:47

kind of the pumps his request and

41:49

so on the commercial and residential side.

41:51

Sometimes that design gets overlooked when you're

41:53

building a building that's like use the

41:55

Ac unit. and in here's all the doors and

41:57

windows in the rooms by wait a minute that unit

41:59

has drained We've got nowhere clear to put that. So,

42:01

you know what, just give it a condensate pump, call

42:03

it a day. And that's the rule of thumb here

42:05

with missing that in the design phase, because they're

42:07

not going to rework the entire plumbing stack to move

42:10

it over to your AC closet now to make sure

42:12

you get it drained. And so condensate

42:14

pumps is the quick easy fix,

42:16

but also it's necessary in some applications,

42:18

a lot of times I see that little giant product

42:21

or like the smaller 110,

42:23

240 volt, dual voltage pump that has a

42:25

decent storage capacity, but we also do a

42:27

lot of the mini split pumps, right? The

42:29

slim style blue, you've got the Aspen stuff

42:31

like that. So it all just depends

42:33

on the application. I'm pretty ambivalent about it.

42:35

I would only say that I hate condensate pumps

42:38

with the fire of a thousand suns on

42:40

the fence. I think in markets where

42:42

you don't have a lot of growth, condensate

42:45

pumps can work. Okay. And they do even

42:47

here, but like where you have a

42:49

lot of growth, they become these just

42:51

cesspools of growth. And so my

42:53

practice has always been, and hopefully

42:55

our standards, Taylor still are that whenever you're on a

42:57

maintenance and you have a condensate pump that you need to

42:59

actually disassemble it and clean it, like you're not going

43:01

to just pour something in it or whatever. And you're not

43:03

really, most of them, you shouldn't be running cleaners to

43:06

them. Anyway, one of our techs

43:08

whose name shall be unnamed was pouring a

43:10

bunch of chemicals through ductless condensate pumps. And

43:12

all of a sudden we had a bunch

43:14

of pumps failing everywhere. And so you get

43:16

to be really careful with that kind of

43:18

thing. And that's where disassembly is the key

43:20

thing, which is also why I hate it

43:22

so much in cases like ductless systems, where

43:24

sometimes it can be really hard to get to. And

43:27

again, they also make noise, which is

43:29

even worse on ductless systems. So I really try

43:31

to not use them if possible. One

43:33

of the questions that somebody brought up is sometimes they use a vinyl

43:35

tubing. I want to bring this up real quick. Talking

43:38

about 90%, but also vinyl

43:40

tubing, not a fan of vinyl tubing for condensate.

43:42

I really prefer to use copper because it also

43:45

helps prevent growth, but it's also going to put

43:47

up with if you ever do have to blow

43:49

it out, it's going to last longer, it's not

43:51

going to dry rot on you. So I'm a

43:53

fan of that. But obviously if that's what's

43:55

there and you can't rerun it, sometimes you have to deal

43:58

with it, but you are going to tend to. have a

44:00

lot more risk with that. Matt Condren, any

44:02

thoughts on this? I definitely agree

44:04

with the maintenance portion of ripping

44:06

the condensate pump apart. Every

44:09

visit that you go there and know it's there,

44:11

just inspecting it. I know with

44:13

maintenance and any time we do have a

44:15

cleanout, using little service stands

44:17

that you do for either line

44:19

isolations, I'd like to actually hook

44:21

that up to a nitrogen tank to also help

44:24

just alleviate and clear that copper line out just

44:26

to make sure there's nothing blocking that could potentially

44:29

fail that pump out. I

44:31

know, Douglas says, there's not much you can

44:33

do to avoid the noises

44:35

other than potentially building a box around

44:37

the pump in the attic to also

44:40

help the longevity of that pump. This

44:42

question here, I'm going to run to Adam.

44:44

So Adam is our 90% furnace guy. What

44:48

happens when it's glued in? Any

44:50

good ways to clean them without removing them? Not

44:52

really. It's going to make a mess. You could try

44:55

pouring water down it with a funnel, but you

44:57

really should be taking them apart. I've had to

44:59

go and pick up a new trap

45:02

because it was glued in and you got

45:04

to get it apart. It's basically what you

45:06

have to do. It's part of it. One

45:09

thing I wanted to say too, is I'm

45:11

curious, like the Florida people, everyone in Florida,

45:13

you're talking about you have the drain slime

45:15

and there's different methods you try to prevent

45:17

it and the maintenance that's involved

45:20

in cleaning it out in that. Have

45:22

you guys ever tried just running your

45:24

drains in copper pipe with

45:26

that? I know it's more expensive,

45:28

obviously, but don't try to baffle your

45:31

common sense. I

45:35

don't appreciate that. I'm

45:38

triggered. I'm triggered by this. You have to warn

45:40

me when you're going to say things like this.

45:44

I'll take a part of this one and you can take it. Commercial

45:46

applications. There are commercial clients who will only let

45:48

you run drain lines in copper. And that is

45:50

for the mere reason that they know that on

45:52

every store that they do, they don't have issues

45:54

because they go the copper route. Now there is

45:56

a huge expense with that. There's also a

45:58

large amount of labor. that goes along with

46:01

that too. And so it's one of those, sure,

46:03

is it a perfect idea? Yes. Does it work?

46:05

Yes, it does. But not every job has the

46:07

cost associated with something like that. It's like the

46:09

Cadillac of drain systems, if you will, not everybody

46:12

is going to pay for the jaguar chains, which

46:14

is your copper drain lines. Does it make perfect

46:16

sense? Yes. Would we love to do it on

46:18

every job? Absolutely. But it just unfortunately isn't

46:20

one of those things that is pushed or creeps

46:23

that off. And then the residential market, the problem

46:25

is that everything is dictated by how houses are

46:27

built. And so if you're not in the RNC

46:29

market, which we're not, and even if we were,

46:31

it would be dictated by the builder how we

46:33

would do it. And they would do it the

46:35

way they've always done it, which is that we

46:37

run everything down to a chase. And

46:40

then we go under that chase under the house and then

46:42

outside. And you can't really push hard

46:44

copper in a chase. Maybe you could, but even

46:46

just the way it is so dumb, like you

46:48

guys would not believe how they do this. They

46:50

basically, they put a 45 in and then they

46:53

angle it up. And so you're jamming PVC through

46:55

it hits the 45. And you have

46:57

to pull it up through like it's nuts.

46:59

And so like, you couldn't do that with hard copper. And

47:02

if you were doing it with running it soft,

47:04

I don't know. I guess maybe you could, but

47:06

you're like these practical things that prevent us from

47:09

doing it. But to your point, if we would

47:11

just do it the way every other part of

47:13

the country does it, not every but a lot

47:15

and stop using underground chases with these gigantic traps,

47:17

because that's part of the problem too, then we

47:19

wouldn't have the issue. But once you're already in

47:21

that, well, now how are we going to drain

47:23

it a different way? Now we're left with something

47:26

like a condensate pump or running a line just

47:28

through someone's house or something, which just isn't practical.

47:30

So it's tough. So excuses, basically, that's

47:32

the reason. Excuse us. Florida man's fault. Do

47:34

we need more excuses? I got more. Yeah,

47:37

please. Everybody loves hearing excuses. That makes for a

47:39

great live stream. Let's just do it. It's

47:44

amazing. It's amazing. I did want

47:46

to talk quickly again about the

47:48

fall thing, because, Like

47:50

Roman said, one eighth inch per foot is standard. And

47:53

that's the code and the I think the IMC and

47:55

whatever the other one is, but I always say quarter

47:57

inch per foot just to make it safe. Preferred

48:00

make it safe some plumbers or went out while

48:02

you're a good pitcher. Drained too much. Not with

48:04

us because we don't have solid in the drain

48:07

release. We shouldn't have solid reason why you can

48:09

try to sit around and uma yeah that's not

48:11

where you're supposed to be taking a dump. It's

48:13

not more than episodes. okay to have decent pichai

48:15

it on our kind of said greens and that's

48:18

also another reason and are market a really anywhere.

48:20

It's another good reason to have a foreign media

48:22

cabinet is it gives you a little bit more

48:24

room to work with and a lot of cases

48:26

to and again alive. You'll likely mean we always

48:29

have rumble and sorta. Again, how we do it, we

48:31

often don't have it, but it gives you more room for fall.

48:33

One thing we didn't hit on and I want to make sure

48:35

that we talk about. His positive vs

48:37

negative pressure drains. So. When

48:39

you're working with a furnace. Is.

48:42

A trap necessary. Ammo

48:44

so. No. It's

48:46

not necessary, but you will lose

48:48

a little bit of airflow. If

48:51

you don't have a trip or if you like

48:53

let's say you're running your kind, it's a trap

48:55

into a floor drain. You have the potential drying

48:57

out the trap. In. The floor drain

48:59

if you know. Let's say you have

49:01

a eighty percent efficient furnace that doesn't

49:03

ever can. It's a dream, but you

49:05

have air conditioning. You're only seeing that

49:07

floor drain during the air conditioning season.

49:09

so the entire heating season years blowing

49:12

warm air drying out there trap. And.

49:14

Then you can start creating a bringing sewer gases

49:16

into the home. Matthew. You're gonna

49:18

say something. Oh yeah, it's

49:20

not necessary. But. A

49:23

lot of times. Especially on like

49:25

a home inspection of elect there's no tap on

49:27

the drain around. I can't really think

49:29

a reason not to put one. So.

49:31

I just how is that? went on. To you

49:33

do but a trap on even unfairness. The essence

49:35

of know initially you know I mean it's not

49:38

necessary, you have more questions was is necessary Okay

49:40

got a guy? yeah I I put them on

49:42

my installs. But. If there's not one

49:44

on someone's furnace, than I don't go out of

49:46

my way to add one. Luke. Any

49:49

thoughts. We. Only put a

49:51

man or. Ninety. Plus furnace

49:53

installations because will lead to tie the.

49:56

Furnace. Drain on the easy drain and

49:58

together and so. We. Just put it. On

50:00

A To. Ensure we don't have

50:02

any static pressure affecting a precious which is

50:04

on them. Earnest, so. Another

50:07

thing that's worth mentioning his here on this

50:09

picture. Easy to be so the drain being

50:11

insulated. And. Really what's important is

50:13

is is couple caveats here if the drain is

50:15

running through a humid environment and it's really the

50:17

underside of the drain and the trap and need

50:20

to be insulated like wherever waters gonna sit that's

50:22

where because they will start to condense water and

50:24

so we will say why I'm in a dry

50:26

climate if you're in a green lush grass climate.

50:29

And. It's running through the humid areas

50:31

for she like an attic you still can

50:33

get condensation. So. I would suggest it

50:35

in those for spaces but I did also

50:37

watch the reasonable and that it's our job

50:40

a yet. So the point the joe's making

50:42

years actually having deposit pressure, pushing the water

50:44

out and a gas furnace is actually useful

50:46

Be all I want to say here is

50:48

that what if you're running the drain reconditioned

50:50

space than that isn't necessary. So there are

50:52

some caveats, but when in doubt insulating the

50:54

train is a good idea. I wanted to

50:56

ask doing in markets like you mentioned said

50:58

traps drying out as a thing. So.

51:01

Let's say you have a fan coil. That's.

51:03

Operating in a market where you have whole

51:05

long periods of time you're not running air

51:07

conditioning. You. Ever have issues with

51:10

that trap drying out? And then

51:12

having a pool water back in is that everything and

51:14

a high static system. I've run into

51:16

that in usually you obviously it's usually

51:18

the first time they turn on the

51:20

cooling their condition for the season with

51:22

assisted the dry trap. So.

51:24

For sure said those. That's one of

51:27

the first things I look at when

51:29

you do and know it's early spring.

51:31

Whatever. To double check the trap

51:33

sir. Water in a yes. Cool.

51:35

Of not. Add some water. And

51:37

as also after why after cleaning on in

51:39

error handler a negative pressure drain you always

51:41

need to refill disrupts one of the things

51:43

that newbies sure mad deals with. The sometimes

51:45

newbies clean a drain, forget to resell it

51:48

and then a couple hours later later that

51:50

afternoon the next morning you get a call

51:52

back and that resell them just because they

51:54

didn't feel that trap. but again you typically

51:56

see that on systems that are running higher

51:58

sac. Pd. have arisen system that's got

52:00

nice low static, then you're often not going to have

52:02

that problem. But obviously commercial system is going to be

52:05

more of an issue. What else?

52:07

I feel like Luke hasn't talked enough. Luke,

52:09

you have to give us like one final

52:11

piece of sage advice on drains.

52:13

It's something to take us home. Slope

52:15

it well, support it better. There you go.

52:17

I like that. Yeah. And that's actually a

52:19

good point because one of the most common

52:22

long-term problems with drains is the support wasn't

52:24

permanent. And so somebody moved it. We didn't

52:26

talk at all about float switches and anything.

52:28

We'll save that for another time. But yeah,

52:30

making sure that it's supported and it's running

52:32

horizontal for a long distance, especially. It drives

52:34

me nuts how we do things in residential.

52:36

Sometimes it's like, why can't we just use

52:38

strut and like proper straps and actually like

52:40

hang things properly? But we never do. It's

52:42

like, Oh, just use some, you

52:45

know, just tie or whatever.

52:48

Looks good for my house. Cardboard boxes.

52:51

I have a carcass of a cat and I

52:53

just got a tail. Just tie it up. And

52:55

I don't know if you're anyway. Florida. Yeah. I'll

52:58

just share this real quick. We had a

53:00

drain that we ran across

53:02

the basement floor and the floor was

53:05

so unlevel that it made a double

53:07

trap and we didn't realize it until like

53:09

a couple of years later after the pipe sagged. And

53:12

also when it did sag

53:14

in the middle, it lifted itself out of

53:16

the drain and flooded the basement. It

53:19

was concrete, but it was enough

53:21

that the water came out of the end of

53:23

the pipe, rolled back underneath the end of the

53:25

pipe, flooded the drain that way or flooded the

53:27

basement that way. So I would

53:30

just say if you think it's not sloped enough, you're

53:32

probably right. Right. That was one of the things somebody

53:35

was like, it's quarter inch, not an eighth inch. I may

53:37

be wrong and maybe the Florida code it's eighth inch, but

53:39

either way quarter inch is a good rule. But again, you

53:41

don't need to get your tape measure out. Just is it

53:43

slope? Is it like good slope or it's

53:45

not a good slope? Something to pay attention to. I

53:47

wanted to mention this quickly because I think we did

53:49

brush past this. So when you

53:52

have more static pressure, Now

53:54

there's to be very technical, more sucking action

53:56

through the drain because you have more negative

53:58

static. And Again, we're talking about. Aren't

54:00

and coils error handler units things that have

54:02

negative pressure on drain and so the more

54:04

said a crush you have the more for

54:06

series for the air it's can attend to

54:08

hold back that water. By. Putting

54:10

the right trap and you prevent that issue

54:13

now is another issue that can happen and

54:15

that is when you have. Poor. Design

54:17

in you'll see cases sometimes where the do

54:19

stupid things like run out round, return right

54:22

up to the bottom and just cut it

54:24

into a platform top and something goofy. When

54:26

you get high air velocity on the coil

54:28

to you can get drainage issues because now

54:31

you have air moving faster and it's hitting

54:33

places blowing things off the blind, water off

54:35

the coil. Easy cases where people was at

54:37

their fan speeds up ridiculously high and you

54:39

get high pace velocity across the coil on

54:42

that search causing issues this are sucking air

54:44

and from around the front all little ports

54:46

and cracks in. Crates like little currents that

54:48

than holds the water back. So a lot of

54:50

goofy stuff happens when you're airflow isn't right and

54:52

when you're static refers to high. So when you

54:54

have weird recurring issues and you've looked episcopal to

54:57

double trapping his best you can you know it's

54:59

clean. All that stuff than airflow really is a

55:01

place to look and again this is one of

55:03

the main things are industry we need to be

55:05

doing more of anyway which is what the a

55:07

static pressure air from. Anything

55:09

else I'll say a big one for me

55:11

that I have learned the hard way over

55:13

the years is to. Just document

55:15

things that are related to water issues.

55:18

So if people don't want. Afloat

55:20

Switch and you know that they need one does? write

55:22

that down. So. That you can have that for

55:24

later. This. Things like that making

55:26

sure cause water. it's one of the

55:28

most common damage things. So if you

55:30

know some bad come in for somebody

55:32

and they say no to as afraid

55:34

of down the remnants. And.

55:36

shows this year redundant protection wherever possible so

55:38

if you have a saner pan having a

55:41

and switch in the secondary pan having one

55:43

in that second report or having a secondary

55:45

drain going to it is kind of an

55:47

old school option that we don't do as

55:49

much but as much as possible making sure

55:51

that those are wired correctly there were to

55:53

series on parallel agonist are just some when

55:55

you're done actually is a huge one when

55:57

you're done cleaning a drain are doing anything

55:59

of assist Make sure it's draining when you leave if

56:01

it's in the summer like actually watch it drain if

56:03

you can In some markets where it's not humid enough.

56:05

You may not be able to but in our market

56:07

man Just make sure because it's

56:10

one of those things especially after

56:12

you've cleaned the equipment Awesome. Oh

56:14

one other thing because this is a tip you can

56:16

do sometimes He asked is there a way to check

56:18

for air turbulence? And again, we're talking about air handlers

56:20

here when you get into really weird situations Where

56:22

you're having a really hard time figuring out where the

56:25

water is coming from Maybe you're getting drips of water

56:27

on the filter or something again Start with just measuring

56:29

static pressure. Yeah, it's something like a true flow grid

56:31

use that and look at do I have the right

56:33

system? Airflow, but you can actually put a piece

56:36

of plexiglass and watch it So it sometimes will tend

56:38

to fog up on you a little bit But you

56:40

can often use that to see where the water is

56:43

falling off or if you have something weird going on

56:45

I've only had to do that a couple times but

56:47

that can help Figure out something

56:49

odd that's going on Another thing is sometimes water will

56:51

fall off a coil just because it's damaged or somebody

56:53

put something weird on it You got some oil on

56:56

it or whatever and then water won't hold on

56:58

the face of that coil properly And there were

57:00

even some brands at times that they had like slant

57:02

coils that they just didn't stand up high enough

57:05

And the water would just literally fall off the coil

57:07

on weird spots. So there's one particular model I

57:09

think it was a train where I would actually

57:11

take it and just adjust it just lightly So

57:13

it could stand a little more upright and then

57:15

that would solve the problem. So you

57:17

just go to my customers problems

57:19

for me, thank you I

57:23

Have that exact issue with the lady with the

57:25

train. So oh do you okay? Yeah, okay Well,

57:28

there you go. Mine was like back in like

57:30

1999 So I don't know

57:32

if that still applies but anyway You know You

57:34

can use those weird slant coils too where that

57:36

surface tension is so tight anyways to where that

57:38

slant to where any surface buildup Of calcium or

57:40

dust or whatever is just enough buildup off that

57:42

coil to where now the surface tension is so

57:45

high when that water hits That it's going to

57:47

drip anyways And so you almost have to go

57:49

in and rebrush it and there was all

57:51

these things going around back in the day when I

57:53

was residential tech and it was like if you use

57:55

a jet dry or a dishwasher detergent to get all

57:58

the chemicals off Get all the oils off that

58:00

it would end drain properly again and stuff like

58:02

that. But. He. Just as other sites

58:04

gravity got those coils, make sure that there's been

58:06

a problem at their clean. One. Person

58:08

in the comments mentioned steam and I just

58:10

want to add that we have used team

58:13

especially Engrossing applications seem is great for cleaning.

58:15

It's just a little bit expensive and cumbersome.

58:18

What I had to Happen. And

58:20

lox young ones. That

58:23

assistant to the front of because the cat

58:25

heard that quip I made about using a

58:27

sales have to drain is what a happy

58:29

you know height dislike of humans now. I

58:33

did not like is brian guy. Who.

58:36

Was while we're already over. Appreciate you

58:38

guys! Thank you so much good conversation

58:41

and thanks again for taking time away

58:43

from your family's to do something meaningless.

58:45

That's mostly the most important thing. Get

58:48

your priorities straight. Appreciate Against like so

58:50

much they said they show a gift

58:52

and guess. Again,

58:57

big they sell these guys who join in

58:59

on the live streams make impossible with a

59:01

lot more community involvement. Louise have and I'm

59:03

greatly appreciative of that. So many people out

59:06

there now we're making content and it's great

59:08

to see. I was at the Cheesy Excellence

59:10

Cousins and I was so encouraged to see

59:13

so many people who are now doing great

59:15

work in this front and so as that

59:17

happens, Sometimes. You going to hear

59:19

from me less and that's okay. It's okay.

59:21

as long as the industry's learning moving forward,

59:24

get that information. Where have you can one

59:26

of my managers to to me the name

59:28

he was? I came in to be mad

59:30

at me when I showed a video of

59:32

Macys are just six Good yeah Solicitude at

59:34

Craig's Amazing and does. Talked about a lot

59:37

of things over the years but that doesn't

59:39

mean the the way that I say it

59:41

is the best way or and use the

59:43

way that is understood most easily for certain

59:45

listener So I always encourage the severe there

59:47

who are teaching. or entertaining it's and

59:50

these recent space that keep us

59:52

keep learning keep growing and as

59:54

a community missing for coming together

59:56

do some good stuff nano perfect

59:58

none of us are going to be exactly

1:00:01

what we should be every day, but I am

1:00:03

seeing positive growth and positive direction for our trade,

1:00:05

and that's a really good thing. So

1:00:08

in general, I like eye jokes. The

1:00:10

cornea, the better. I

1:00:14

can't even laugh at that, not in the

1:00:16

slightest, but anyway. Hey, thanks for

1:00:18

listening. We'll talk to you next time on

1:00:20

the HVAC School Podcast. Thanks

1:00:24

for listening to the HVAC

1:00:26

School Podcast. You can find

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