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1:58

Alright, ladies and gentlemen, I have Mr. Christopher Martinez back on this show.

2:02

And, um, actually, it's interesting.

2:04

This is about a week removed from when we recorded the full episode,

2:08

which you'll hear and watch. And something was nagging at Chris here.

2:13

So he asked if we could just record like a little intro segment and uh, Chris, I want

2:17

to defer this just straight to you, man. Yeah, yeah, you know, like, it was one of those things where, like, I was super

2:22

happy after we recorded the episode. And honestly, like, I've done lots and lots of interviews.

2:27

I've never reached out to anybody like this. And I was like, you know what? There's one thing that I feel like we really need to talk about just

2:33

for like five minutes, which will, I think, help people to understand

2:37

kind of like why we're talking about this and just get a better sense

2:40

of the issue that we have at hand. Um, and so specifically, it's just like, what is racism?

2:45

You know, because we're going to be talking about that in the actual interview.

2:49

For nearly an hour, I think, um, but we never actually defined what it is.

2:53

And I think part of the problem is that people have misconceptions about

2:58

what it is or what constitutes racism.

3:01

And, um, so I literally just pulled the definition of racism

3:06

because I think that it's really, really helpful to hear this first.

3:10

So it says, racism is the belief that race accounts for differences in

3:14

human character or ability and that a particular race is superior to others.

3:20

So for me, the key points there is that you believe that because of

3:24

somebody's skin color, that there is something inherent about them.

3:28

Normally it's around their ability or like their intelligence, something like that.

3:31

Right? So, uh, what I would like to do, and hopefully this doesn't offend too many

3:35

people, is like, let's, let's just talk about some of these stereotypes.

3:38

that people have. And of course, like I like to joke around, so I'm going to try and throw in some

3:42

humor around this, uh, again, without.

3:45

Being cancelled. Hopefully I'm not being We'll see.

3:47

We went there. I mean, So, so if you said, you know, like, all Asian kids are good at math.

3:52

Like, me being half Asian, this is something that I've heard my entire life.

3:56

Like, is that racist? You know, like, that's kind of like a tricky one.

4:00

Right? So like, if you believe that all Asian kids are good at math because of their

4:07

genetics, or because of, that's just like, every single person in all of Asia,

4:11

every Asian across the United States, or across the world, is inherently good at

4:15

math, I would say that's probably racist.

4:19

Right? Yeah. But if you look at statistics, because we talk about that quite

4:23

a bit, and you look at, let's just say, college entrance exams, right?

4:26

Like, you know, you have a lot of Asian, uh, Asian Americans that are getting in,

4:30

uh, get into some of the best colleges in the, in the world, in the United States.

4:35

And a lot of that is because they have really good test scores.

4:37

And a lot of that goes back to the culture and the, the emphasis that Asian, uh, that

4:41

Asian parents put on doing well in school.

4:45

Um, and also if their parents happen to be engineers, which a lot of people who

4:49

immigrated to the United States, that was something that they came over for.

4:51

They were engineers and we needed engineers in the U.

4:54

S. So then you have parents that also can teach you more about that.

4:58

So it just really depends on how you, uh, you know, you approach that question.

5:04

Um, another one is, and this is one that's a little bit more controversial.

5:09

As you look at the incarceration rates of African Americans in the United States,

5:14

and it's very well documented that African Americans are, uh, the highest

5:18

incar, incarcerated, uh, ethnic group or racial group in the United States.

5:23

And so if somebody looks at that and they say, well, that's

5:26

because all black people are bad. Like they're inherently bad.

5:29

I think we could all agree that that is racist.

5:32

Um, and for those that wouldn't say that that's racist, then guess what?

5:36

You are racist. You are a racist person. it's true that African Americans are incarcerated at higher rates than any

5:42

other ethnic group or racial group, right? Um, but to say that all black people are inherently bad and

5:48

that's why they're in prison is a racist statement, I would argue.

5:53

Right? and so like, it's just, it's the way that you look at those, or it's the way

6:00

that you, if somebody says something like that and just paints a very broad

6:04

brush across everybody, giving them, you know, saying that this group is

6:08

better, a blanket statement saying that this group is inherently better and this

6:12

group is inherently worse, then that is pretty much the definition of Yeah.

6:18

And, and I want to frame this as well as, well, a couple of things, a bunch

6:22

of stuff comes to mind, but I, you know, we did record an episode on this.

6:26

So we don't need a second one yet, but at the same time, this is in the

6:30

framing of us, most of us as business owners who are watching and listening,

6:35

uh, entrepreneurs, or maybe we're in a business intrapreneur, even maybe

6:39

you're a leader, however, this, or maybe you're just not, and that's okay too.

6:43

So, uh, That's where the majority of our conversation went to, but I

6:48

love this framing here because what you blanket statements in general,

6:52

I'd never really trust anybody like when they are, when they're

6:55

attaching a Blake blanket statement. Statement to anything like I mean, it's just like how do you do that?

7:02

That's we're human. We're very dynamic. We have Upbringings that are different than others.

7:07

I mean like I know well I don't know but from what I understand

7:11

the Asian community like they put a lot of emphasis on early education

7:16

Math being being a big component.

7:18

Awesome. Well, guess what? That's conditioning, you know It's like they're conditioned a lot of them are

7:23

at a younger age than maybe other ethnic groups You You know, but I don't know.

7:29

And everyone is conditioned differently, you know, um, has a different upbringing.

7:34

So, yeah. So to that point, Chris, I guess before we kick off to the episode,

7:39

um, any, any final words on this point to like, can put it in this

7:43

container of how we can empower, yeah,

7:47

A couple of things is just keep in mind that this is a very, uh,

7:52

it's not a black and white subject. There's still a lot of gray in this conversation.

7:56

Um, I talk about this, you know, kind of like the why behind

7:59

it in the interview itself.

8:01

Um, but one of the big things just to give you really quick summary

8:05

is like something that I believe. Is that one of the things that makes the United States the best country on

8:10

earth, especially to run a business? And I've traveled, you know, a little bit, and I've, I'm one of the only

8:15

ones who've own, who's own, also owned a business in another country.

8:18

I owned a business in Mexico, so I love my country, you know, and I,

8:23

I aspire that in the United States have the best and brightest, right?

8:28

I want the best and the brightest. I want everybody to be measured by the same measuring stick and, and so.

8:36

So, for my own, you know, company, I, I don't care where people are from.

8:40

I don't care what their skin color looks like.

8:42

I recognize that even I have biases.

8:45

Like, we all have biases. But we need to raise the level of consciousness so that when, as business

8:51

owners, when we're evaluating a team member, for example, right, we're looking

8:55

at what they can do and not letting our biases get in the way of that evaluation.

9:01

Dang And yeah, and, and that's what I want.

9:04

You know, I just want a level playing field where everybody has the same

9:08

opportunity and, uh, or, and everybody is judged by the same measuring stick.

9:12

And I think that's how you build the best team that's going to

9:15

help you elevate your business. I love it. And,

9:18

it. and honestly, you know, We're human, so we're not perfect, and I don't think

9:23

this conversation will solve us as being human and imperfect, and that's okay, but

9:27

at least awareness, I think, is a great first step in how we all do have the

9:32

ability to control what we can control, you know, and, and that's why, even why

9:37

I have this podcast in the first place. I know there's this network effect, a ripple that happens, and I get

9:43

to curate people like yourself who have a mission, have a voice.

9:47

I feel like is very important and I want to put that out there.

9:50

So, um, it's what I can control.

9:52

You're doing what you can control, Chris. So that's all I ask of everyone watching, listening is, you know,

9:58

figure out what you can control and, and, uh, do your best.

10:01

So in that note, disagree with me too.

10:03

I am not opposed to that. It's free yeah, go find him.

10:06

He's, he's fun to chat with. And, uh, yeah, ain't scared either, which I love, man.

10:11

So thank you, Chris. No. Let's watch.

10:14

Mr. Martinez, Chris, we're back.

10:16

It's been a while, man, since I've had you on here. Yeah, it's been years.

10:20

Probably 2018, 2019 since I first came on the show.

10:25

Yeah, and we're just saying it's like you live in town now, but even before that

10:29

you weren't that far away in TJ, Tijuana.

10:31

Yeah, I know. coming to San Diego four or five times a week.

10:35

Yeah. Four years or something. Three, four years it's been for us.

10:38

So let's, let's, uh, let's change that, man. This is a first start.

10:42

Excited for the show, man, because it's funny, like, when I go on podcasts,

10:46

or if I have guests sometimes, I say, okay, so we're going to talk about

10:49

race, religion, and politics, right? Jokingly, and today we're actually going to talk about race, and probably not

10:58

politics, but maybe a little bit about mean, But,

11:00

it's election year. So why not? You know, it's one of those topics that's so taboo and everybody's terrified to

11:05

talk about it, but I wanted to get it out there and just provide a

11:08

different perspective for everybody. Well, at the end, that's exactly why you're here.

11:11

And obviously we're buddies and we've, we've collaborated on, on things.

11:15

You've run the, the dude agency, you know, that's what

11:17

you're big in the agency world. Do you have a conference coming up in San Diego in August?

11:21

I'm just going to shout it out now. So. You do all the fun stuff, uh, agency freedom live, right?

11:26

So, Yep. peep at all that stuff.

11:29

So, that's, that's you. Like, you've had agencies for, as long as I've known you, what,

11:33

like, well over ten years now. Yeah, I've had our, our business is 12 years old now.

11:38

there you go. So, it's cool, cool agency model.

11:41

Um, we'll get into that in a little bit, but that's, that's,

11:45

It's, it's very relevant. And also, you know, that's, uh, just knowing that you've been very successful

11:51

for 12 years in that business.

11:53

I think you've done some stuff before that as well.

11:56

Um, but either way, like you came out to me and you're like, Hey, there's a topic.

12:00

I really want to talk about. I haven't been able to, yeah, it's, it's kind of this, this thing

12:05

that's taboo statement or this thing that everybody cringes or

12:08

doesn't know how to approach it. So I said, fuck it, let's do it.

12:12

And like, let's talk about it.

12:15

So. I guess tell everyone, tell me, uh, your perspective of like,

12:20

yeah, what's the big idea here? Huh? What are we, what are we doing?

12:22

Yeah, so ultimately what we want to talk about today is racism in, uh,

12:28

in digital marketing specifically. And, It's different than what you normally think, you know?

12:34

Like, it's not like there's being racial slurs being hurled at

12:39

me or other people that I know. Although that stuff does happen mainly in the comments or in

12:43

emails and stuff like that. I've definitely been called racial slurs before.

12:47

Um, it's not as overt, but what I really want to talk about today is

12:50

just kind of like, The, the data behind it and like my background,

12:54

I went to school for sociology. I have a degree in sociology.

12:57

I'm one of the few people that actually paid attention in class.

13:00

Um, I did go to UC Santa Barbara where they have a really, really

13:03

good, um, sociology department.

13:05

And I just wanted to talk about the things that I'm seeing specifically

13:09

in our industry, but it also applies to the, to capitalism in general.

13:16

Um, and our country, uh, and just kind of shed some light on this

13:19

and, and ideally are ultimately, I want to tie this back to what does

13:23

this mean to us as entrepreneurs? Because I think one of the things that I bring to the table is

13:28

that I'm also an entrepreneur. I'm a minority entrepreneur.

13:32

I won an award by the, I won a Stevie award for minority owned

13:36

business of the year in 2021.

13:39

So I think I'm a decent entrepreneur, um, but I just have some different

13:44

perspectives based on my background.

13:47

You know, my mother is an immigrant from Taiwan.

13:49

My grandfather was an immigrant from Mexico.

13:53

Um, and then, you know, so the fact that I have that kind of, uh,

13:58

person of color background, also, uh, my training as a sociologist.

14:03

I think I bring some unique things to the table. So, that's kind of what I wanted to talk to you about.

14:08

And you've been, uh, brave enough to have me on the show and to talk

14:11

about some very sensitive topics. I will say, just as kind of like a warning, there's probably some things

14:17

that I'm going to say that are going to be triggering for some people.

14:21

Keep in mind, like, I am not the sole spokesperson for, uh, Racism or

14:27

people of color in entrepreneurship. Likewise, you are not the sole spokesperson for all white

14:33

people in the United States. We're two guys having a conversation, so if you disagree

14:38

with me, that's totally okay. You're not going to hurt my feelings.

14:41

Um, you know, if you're in the comments, please try and be so, uh, civil.

14:46

honestly you are there's no one better Else that I know personally that fits

14:51

the mold perfectly to talk about it, man.

14:53

Like you've done the work for a long time. You've got recognition what you've had hundreds of employees.

14:59

I don't know how Hundreds and hundreds of employees. Oh, I'm also one of the only people who's lived in a foreign country.

15:04

I live, you know, born and raised in Los Angeles, then moved to San Diego,

15:08

then lived for five years in Mexico before coming back to the United States.

15:12

So I kind of have that perspective as well. You've done the work.

15:14

I've been there at the facility. The big place you have, you haven't

15:18

old place, our old place. place. Yeah.

15:20

I've been to a couple of them, two of them. I remember. So, I mean, like, and it, the model in itself is, Awesome.

15:27

And I'm sure you've learned so much even about that, like outs, outsourcing.

15:30

I don't know what the best word, but like to Mexico for design dev agency work.

15:35

But point is you, you got the background, you've done the work, you've done your

15:40

times and you also studied this stuff.

15:42

So shoot. I mean, I think this is the perfect time to have an open conversation.

15:47

I want to hear from you more than anything, because.

15:50

That's, that's exactly why I brought you in. And I think that's why you,

15:53

Well, yeah, let's, let's just start there actually.

15:56

What sparked with you that said, okay, I gotta have Chris on the show

16:01

You're, and I, just to preface this, like I'm constantly sending you texts or kind

16:05

of like giving you shit and calling you out on stuff that I see that you're

16:08

doing completely inadvertently, but I'm trying to like show you a different

16:12

perspective as to how this might be perceived or how, you know, like

16:17

somebody like myself is viewing it. Um, so what, what, what, what sparked it with you that made me, made

16:22

you want to have me on the show? honestly, it's that it's the fact that you are, you're someone

16:27

who, well, for one, I trust you.

16:30

So I know you're not just talking crap, even though a lot of it is joking, you

16:33

know, but it's layered in realism, like, and I feel like that's probably most

16:37

jokes, but most people don't have the cojones to throw it out there and actually

16:42

say like, Hey, have you thought about this side of things with this perspective.

16:46

Or, or approaching, you know, like having specific guests on the podcast

16:51

or topics we talk about, or have you ever thought about the privilege that I

16:55

have as a white guy, uh, man and white, you know, and growing up in San Diego

17:02

too, I know that's also given me an advantage, but it's like, and you said

17:07

that and you don't, you don't do this in like, hey, asshole, you know, like,

17:10

have you ever realized, but it's, it's.

17:13

You have a great intentions and I know that you're not just

17:17

saying it to stir stuff up. Um, and it got me thinking like there's a whole text dialogue

17:22

that you and I had and I remember reviewing that and it was great.

17:26

And, um, I won't read that stuff.

17:29

We're basically prefacing it all right here. Like we're giving you the cliff notes and then he gave me some

17:34

materials to even go deeper because I was curious and I genuinely am.

17:38

And that's where I knew more could come out and dialogue in this way.

17:42

So I've done some research prior to, but yeah, that's, that's why

17:46

man, because I know I can do better. And I know that the reason I even have this show and I've said this, it's not BS.

17:53

So if anybody thinks it's BS, uh, is I'm more impact focused these days.

17:58

I'm realizing for a long time, it was tactical.

18:01

It was like, Hey, let's do this marketing strategy to increase convert.

18:05

All that stuff's great. Conversion is great. Yeah.

18:07

It's, we need that for business, but at the same time, it's like, what's the

18:10

bigger impact that I can provide here.

18:13

I want to cherry pick the right people on this show because I know it's up to

18:17

me To do that because you're now going to influence and and that's gonna it's

18:23

like a network effect Everybody's going to hear it in some way and feel it.

18:26

So, so hopefully I can, uh, educate or maybe help somebody see things from a different

18:31

light through our conversation today. You know, like As a minority entrepreneur in, uh, in digital

18:39

marketing specifically, it is always been apparent to me that I'm the only

18:46

person that looks like me in the room.

18:49

Right? And so even when we go to like conferences, Traffic and Conversion

18:54

Summit, you know, which you've exhibited at, I've exhibited at,

18:56

you've spoken at, I've spoken at. I am constantly look at the speaker list.

19:02

And I don't think I'm unique in this sense. And I see all the faces that are speaking, especially the headliners, right?

19:11

And none of them look like me. And I, I, I want to know why is this happening?

19:18

I don't think, and I think Sonia who came on earlier also mentioned this.

19:21

I don't think anything, anybody's doing something malicious.

19:24

Although I do know that there are people out there who are very malicious.

19:29

I have encountered those people and I can name them to you.

19:32

You know who they are too, but maybe have not seen it directly the way that I have.

19:36

There are a few people that are out there that are actively trying to keep

19:41

some people out, but the overwhelming majority of entrepreneurs, especially

19:46

in digital marketing, are good, nice, kind people that just don't know

19:53

some of the things that they might be doing inadvertently that is, um,

19:59

Keeping some people out of the party. Now, as a white male who is like the poster child for like being shit on

20:11

right now in the United States, let's be, let's be clear that you guys are

20:14

not having a good, a good decade. but,

20:17

I think the, the biggest question is why should you care?

20:20

You know, like, if you have all these advantages.

20:23

And, you know, let's just say all of them are true.

20:26

Why would you give a shit? right and that's that's a really good question and something, you

20:30

know it's like you can have all the perspective in the world, but You

20:34

Change is tough for most people.

20:36

People don't like change. They're resistant to change.

20:39

Unless you are this, like, I feel like it's an elevated level of consciousness.

20:43

And I think we, you mentioned it, this has actually been coming up on more calls

20:47

is like, there's this like now intuition that people are starting to feel that.

20:52

And I think it's because there have been things in the media.

20:54

There've been things maybe addressed specifically to people,

20:57

I would push back a little bit on that. Um, in the sense that the demographics of the United States have shifted

21:04

tremendously, um, and you can trace a lot of it back to world war two

21:09

with African, African Americans being allowed to fight in world war two.

21:12

Yeah. Um, and fight the Nazis and then coming home and being like, wait a second.

21:16

I fought for my country. Why don't I have these rights?

21:19

20 years later, we have the Civil Rights Movement, as well as an Asian

21:23

Immigration Act that gets passed, which allows a lot more diversity

21:26

to come into the United States. And so now we're 50 years past 1965, right?

21:31

One of the, from the 60s, like one of the most tumult, 60 years past that,

21:36

um, past one of the most tumultuous times in the United States history.

21:40

And so, um, getting back to my original point, why would I care?

21:45

If I'm a white male who everybody says has all the advantages, it's

21:49

because from a business perspective, from a capitalistic perspective,

21:53

and I'm very much a capitalist. If you're putting your company in a much better position to market to a

22:00

different audience, if you embrace these concepts or understand how it's

22:08

a little bit different of an experience for somebody who's a person of color.

22:12

Yeah. So, um, Let me just ask you a question.

22:17

What percentage of the United States do you think are minorities?

22:23

I think it's over well over 50 percent.

22:25

I mean, I think it's. You think 50

22:28

Well, minority, I guess that would then the definition changes technically, right?

22:32

So let's just say non white. Yeah.

22:34

What percentage of the United States are non white?

22:37

So, yeah. And this is where I know.

22:41

I still want to say over 50%. I might be crazy.

22:44

Um, go ahead. I'll, I'll just say

22:46

This, okay, so there have been so many studies on this where surveys are done

22:51

and they analyze what white people say are, what's the percentage of people

22:56

that are minorities in the United States. They almost always say double the actual number.

23:02

Wow. Really? Today, today, in, well as of, I would say the statistics I just pulled is

23:08

right around, it's like 20, 20, 2019.

23:12

You, you're seeing anywhere from 25 to 30 percent is non white, is minorities.

23:19

Uh huh. So you double the amount of that.

23:22

So why, why is that? Why, why do white people typically think that there's twice as many

23:27

minorities than there actually are in the scene. That's where my brain went at.

23:31

Why is that a pattern now? Cause my brain always

23:33

Are you a bad person for thinking that? Absolutely not!

23:36

I think we're, person for thinking that. yeah. And I think, yeah, it's interesting because.

23:42

If there's 50 percent or there's not at least as far as that stat

23:46

that you just said, you know, 20 to 30 percent You would think okay.

23:50

So what does that mean? Like what can I do knowing, you know armed with that knowledge of

23:58

You don't have to but it's like in my brain it's like like what do I

24:01

do with that information, you know I don't want you to feel guilt.

24:04

I don't want you to feel guilty about that. First of all, like this is something that I don't want you because Joe,

24:09

you were a good guy, you know, like if anything, you were an advocate

24:14

to all of us darkies out there. But that's, that's not where I'm getting at though.

24:17

Like, so what I was getting at more is like, in my brain, and I'm, I'm also

24:21

trying to think for the person listening, watching is like, okay, there's that stat.

24:26

What do I do with that stat? Like, what's the actionable thing I can take from that?

24:30

So, so this is the first thing that I want to start with is that as we're analyzing,

24:34

if there's racism in the country. The first thing that we're going to do is we're going to take a scientific approach.

24:40

And this is essentially what sociology does.

24:42

As we look at the culture or the society and we try and use statistics to figure

24:48

out, is there actually a problem?

24:51

I was very fortunate that in my studies in university, I, um, I say

24:55

university because I talked to all these people from outside the U.

24:57

S. In college, I took a really, really, uh, great statistics course.

25:04

This guy was a, he was literally a genius.

25:06

He got his PhD from Harvard in statistics at like 22 or 23 years old.

25:11

He was a 25 year old professor at UC Santa Barbara.

25:14

It was amazing. And what he, he said something that stuck with me.

25:17

He said, statistics. I love statistics because statistics tells us the truth.

25:24

Right? So let me just take a quick tangent.

25:27

I'm going to tell you something that we've all heard before, or I think most

25:29

of us have heard before, is that, um, 95 percent of accidents, car accidents happen

25:34

within a 12 mile radius of your house. You've heard that before.

25:37

Yep. What does that mean?

25:40

That means that we're flying blind. that's what people think the statistic means, but we can't actually prove that.

25:48

That might be true. Okay. But here's the caveat is that 95 percent of the driving that you do is

25:53

within a 12 mile radius of your house. as well.

25:56

Yeah. I guess quantity is higher So can you make that, can you actually say based on those statistics, the

26:01

first statistic that I give you, can you actually concretely say that

26:05

we're not, not paying attention? no, because it totally depends on, yeah, where you're at and yep.

26:11

So the fact that you say that I think that there's 50 percent of the United

26:15

States that there's, uh, are my, are minorities when it's actually 25,

26:18

does that mean that you're racist? Absolutely not. So let's just look at the, how we use statistics from a business perspective,

26:28

uh, to identify, are there any qualities that might impact us as entrepreneurs?

26:35

Right? So like, I want to look at something like the, uh, actually there's a

26:39

conference coming up in San Diego. It's the EOS conference.

26:42

I'm sure you're familiar with EOS, Yeah.

26:44

Like Gina Wickman and Wickman, right?

26:47

I just happened to look at his website before we went on, uh, this call

26:51

looking at the speakers because that's something that I, that I, you know,

26:55

that I look at from time to time. Uh, I don't know if you can pull it up or maybe we can have it in the notes.

27:01

Um, but if you look at the speaker lineup, it is overwhelmingly white.

27:07

Now, do I think that people at EOS or do I think that Gino Wickman are racist?

27:13

Absolutely not. What I would like to see, and this is true of anything from, from Congress,

27:21

which is still overwhelmingly white, overwhelmingly male, to the Senate,

27:25

to, you know, like, to representation in the community, to events like this.

27:31

What I, as a sociologist, maybe an amateur sociologist, would

27:36

like to see is maybe not even 25%.

27:38

If 25 percent of the United States are minorities.

27:43

You know, like if we could get to 25%, that would be amazing.

27:48

But can we get to 15? You know, like, can we get to 20?

27:53

Can we get to 10? Right. if you look at all the speakers that they have at that event, the, uh, I

28:00

have to do a count, but I, I'm willing to bet that it's over 90 percent

28:03

white that are speaking at that event. Uh huh.

28:06

Uh huh. Now, the second thing that we want to look at is the audience.

28:11

So are their audience also respective, reflective of the speakers?

28:16

If it's not, then we need to look deeper and identify where's the disconnect.

28:22

You know, and this is one of the challenges that I had with Trafficking Conversion Summit.

28:26

Um, back when I spoke, actually, I brought this up to the gal who asked me

28:29

to speak, and, and she was a big advocate.

28:32

She's like, I do recognize, that the audience that's speaking is not this,

28:35

or the, the people that are speaking are not reflective of the audience.

28:39

Trafficking Conversion's audience has changed dramatically

28:43

over the past 10 years. It's a very diverse audience.

28:45

They have people coming in from all over the world, um, different

28:49

nationalities, different languages, right? Um, so this gal that was working at Trafficking Conversion said, you

28:56

know what, I've noticed this too. I am very much an advocate of and wanting to instigate some

29:01

change because I also recognize.

29:03

that our clients look different than they did, right?

29:07

And I feel like we should have more representation on the stages.

29:10

Unfortunately, she left trafficking and conversion for

29:13

reasons that we won't talk about. Um, but you know, now it's kind of going back to the way that

29:20

it was prior to her being there.

29:24

And so from a capitalistic standpoint, could you make the argument, Joe,

29:30

that That if our audience is very representative of the overall population,

29:35

that we should also look to feature people that are on the stages that are

29:40

reflective of that audience as a marketer.

29:42

You know that people respond to people that they know, like, and trust.

29:45

Correct. A hundred percent. Yeah. And that's where going that that's like you referenced Sonia earlier.

29:51

That was her big thing is like, Hey. It's not saying everyone's guilty for this, but like, is there a place for me?

29:58

I would imagine if I'm putting my, my, myself in someone else's shoes, let's say

30:03

from another country, they're flying into a conference where they want to, it's

30:06

like, do I feel, do I feel seen, you know?

30:10

And I, and I think it's, do I feel safe as well?

30:13

And yeah, safety is that whole like human thing innately we all want anyway,

30:18

but being seen like, yeah, like, Scene.

30:21

And then when it goes to marketing, it's the no, I can trust kind

30:24

of, yeah, all of those things kind of go from that point on.

30:26

It feels like that's my perception. Absolutely.

30:29

And I just want to pause this episode really fast and shout out a podcast.

30:33

That's also on the HubSpot podcast network, the audio destination

30:37

for business professionals. This one's a podcast that's hosted by someone I followed for years.

30:43

The name is Donald Miller is the whole story brand.

30:46

Uh, book and all the different stuff online, he hosts the podcast

30:50

called business, made simple. The premise is to basically take the mystery out of growing your business.

30:56

And he recently had on one of the other guys I follow is Alex, her mosey.

31:01

And right at the beginning of the year, they're talking about.

31:05

Facing uncertainty in your business and Alex and Donald, they talk about different

31:10

ways for different ways to basically shore up your business, to, to ride

31:15

the uncertain times that inherently are the ones that we're living in in 2024.

31:19

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31:24

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And again, that's hustle and flowchart.com/k a R T R a.

32:19

actually I want to address a big kind of like hot topic that

32:23

entrepreneurs don't really talk about. Um, and this is something that's a little bit alarming to me in the United States.

32:30

Now I have dealt with this my entire life. I've been told that I'm less American because I'm not white.

32:36

Yeah. Less American. Wow. that I'm not as American as other people.

32:40

I've been told, go back to your country.

32:43

My family's been here for a hundred years. My, my uncle fought in world war two, right?

32:47

So is, I don't know if this is shocking to you, but any minority, especially

32:51

anybody from Latin America, from Latin American descent or Asian American

32:55

descent, or I would say even middle Eastern descent has heard this before.

33:00

Oh yeah. It's not shocking. It's just every time I hear it.

33:02

And then with the context of, Hey, do you actually know what my family's done?

33:07

You know, and the roots that are here the way that I look and that's what's the, I mean, usually these are very ignorant,

33:12

stupid people, but it still exists.

33:15

Um, I'm sure you know people that are still racist.

33:18

I know people that are racist. I know somebody who's a police officer from high school who's racist.

33:24

He shot a black guy in the back and I heard, I was at an event, a

33:27

party, and he was bragging about how he shot this n word in the back.

33:32

Geez. Wow. Okay. This is not that long ago, guys.

33:36

So these things exist. We don't really talk about it openly, right?

33:41

Um, The thing that really alarms me that's happening in the United States right now

33:47

is people are a little bit more vocal in saying that they think that the United

33:52

States is a white Christian nation.

33:56

Right. Have you heard that I've heard it.

33:58

Yeah. Um, I, I don't know.

34:00

I can't remember if you live in East County or if you grew up in East

34:03

I'm more in East County. Yeah. So the

34:06

notorious for being a little bit more right wing,

34:10

definitely. to be fair, their stats on every metro area is typically a lot more, you know,

34:17

it's progressive blue, let's call it.

34:19

And then the further you get away from the cities, it goes more red or

34:23

Yeah. In California, it's like the further, the further away from the coast you get,

34:27

the more Republican and unless you're in Orange County or something, but

34:31

Orange County is, is the, yeah, it's the outlier.

34:34

Right. But you're right. Yeah. In East San Diego, it, it gets, it's yeah, it goes that way.

34:40

, but to, to bring my, go back to my, my point is that, you know, like,

34:44

these are the things that concern me as a minority entrepreneur.

34:49

Because am I being judged?

34:52

by, by people as not being American, right?

34:56

And how, how could that impact my business?

35:01

And if that's the case, like if you're saying that I'm not as American

35:04

as the other person, guess what? I'm not fucking paying taxes because I pay a shitload of fucking taxes

35:09

and I employ a lot of people. So, um, if you're not going to give me the same credibility as

35:14

other Americans, uh, guess what?

35:16

You ain't keeping my money. Yeah.

35:18

Fuck you, Uncle Sam. No, um, but seriously, like, uh, so let's look at the, let's go back to,

35:25

uh, the speaking on the stages, right?

35:28

So, like, our If there is not representation on those stages, and

35:33

if there is representation of those groups in the audience, we have to go a

35:38

level deeper and ask the question, why?

35:42

Why are these people not getting the opportunities?

35:46

Now, I, I was talking to Vince Reed one time and he's like, well, nobody's

35:49

promoting other people in this space. And I, I agree with him to an extent that he says black folks

35:55

don't stand up for black folks that want to speak on these big stages.

35:57

And so they're not getting the, the ability to speak to an extent.

36:02

I, I agree. Um, there is you, there's usually committees that determine who

36:09

gets to speak on the stages. And a lot of the times they look at like things like social media following.

36:15

Right? Um, and so if you have a big social media following, then you get asked

36:19

to speak, which is why we see a lot of the same people of color that are

36:23

speaking over and over and over and over because those are the only people

36:26

that have social media followings. So, okay, so why aren't other minority entrepreneurs getting

36:32

the social media followings? Um, this is where we need to do some more research and actually get concrete

36:37

data because if people are doing the exact same things and putting the exact

36:42

same work, you should see relatively similar growth in social media following.

36:49

Without before doing this experiment, I would argue that that's where

36:53

things where you start to see the real discrepancies and where people's

36:57

biases start to come into play.

36:59

Now I can tell you from my own experiences as somebody who's written

37:03

three books, I've won two Stevie awards.

37:06

I've made millions and millions of dollars. I did not have money from mommy and daddy.

37:10

I had to build this shit on my own. I even moved to a different country to try and build my business.

37:14

So, It's still very frustrating when I have to prove my

37:19

intelligence to an audience, right?

37:23

And I have to go above and beyond.

37:26

This is something you'll hear from a lot of minority entrepreneurs, and I hope

37:29

this doesn't come off as sounding whiny. I'm just telling you how it is.

37:33

You'll hear that we have to work twice as hard to get half as far, right?

37:37

Now, I need data to back this up. I'm busy running my fucking business, so I don't have time

37:41

to do this sociological study. But anecdotally, what I do see is, yes, this is true.

37:48

You know, like I've done 159 episodes on my podcast.

37:51

I've done a lot of the things and yet when it comes to me, um, presenting

37:57

even my products or like what it is that we do, like I know things that

38:00

nobody else knows in this industry, cause I've been there a long time.

38:03

Yeah. Um, you will see that often the audience and even a minority

38:09

on the audience sometimes. will gravitate towards the white guy, right?

38:16

No matter what is being said, no matter the credibility of that

38:19

minority entrepreneur, and it's not just me, it's other people too.

38:23

You'll see that the, the audiences typically will go

38:27

in a different direction. And I want to know why, why is that?

38:32

I would hypothesize that that is that there are internal biases that

38:39

Like, that people that look a certain way, people that look like you,

38:42

are automatically more credible. Right?

38:46

So, these are the things that, that are relevant to me, and it goes kind of back

38:51

to that, what I was saying earlier is, do the majority of Americans believe that the

38:57

United States is a white Christian nation?

39:00

And is that some of the root of the biases?

39:03

Even though our country is becoming more, more diverse,

39:06

Yep. Um, we still don't have a lot of diversity across the general population as well.

39:12

So this is kind of like getting into that institutional racism,

39:16

systemic racism conversation. Right.

39:19

And, and there's, there's obviously history.

39:21

There's, there's a conditioning. That's where the biases likely come from.

39:26

And. I think of this, uh, this article that you sent or as a study that

39:31

you sent him is about the trust gap. I believe it's called.

39:34

And, And, it's interesting.

39:36

And maybe you can describe it a little bit in more depth, but maybe it's,

39:40

it's related in this regard because it feels like there's this, this gap

39:44

in trust and it's baked in probably these other, a whole bunch of layers.

39:48

so that, that article that I sent you is a brilliant article by a

39:51

sociologist from Harvard University. And she talks about how, uh, the, the, um, housing crisis for African, African

40:01

Americans since post civil war, how that impacted their ability to build wealth

40:07

longterm and also their ability to, to create communities and build generational

40:12

wealth through entrepreneurship. So, um, just to kind of very quickly summarize this article, Um, all throughout

40:20

the 19th and 20th centuries, there were laws that were placed that restricted

40:26

where African Americans could live. I don't know if you knew this or not

40:30

I've, I've heard of it. Okay. Um, I think one of them was called, there was like a, uh, what, like

40:34

when we started moving out of the cities and into suburbs, specific

40:38

suburbs would say no blacks allowed. Right.

40:40

And I think one of them was called Levittown. I'm not sure.

40:43

Um, Okay. Talked about, but.

40:46

This happened, this actually happened in our, in the United States.

40:51

And so one of the things that happened is because African Americans were not

40:55

allowed to live in certain places, they were constantly moving around and it

40:58

was harder for them to form communities. They use an example of Italian Americans.

41:03

So Italian Americans didn't have to face this sort of.

41:05

Housing discrimination. And so they were able to form strong bonds and trust within their communities.

41:11

Now, a lot of these people couldn't go to a traditional bank to get financing,

41:14

to start a business or buy a house. And so within these communities, they would have lenders.

41:20

And after you knew, got to know people in the community, they'd be

41:23

like, Oh, Joe, he's a great guy. Let's lend him some money.

41:26

Let's let's help him start his business. And so based on that, you start to build a foundation of wealth.

41:33

And then that gets passed on from generation to generation.

41:36

I would also add into that. There's knowledge that gets gained, right?

41:40

So like my parents were not entrepreneurs. I didn't know about entrepreneurship.

41:44

Um, and so I see my friends who had parents that are entrepreneurs and I

41:47

just see there's so many things that they learn that I didn't learn right

41:51

from managing money to marketing, to sales, to communication, to leadership.

41:56

There's these lessons that get passed on from generation to generation

41:59

when you have that education. So the whole trust gap comes from, you know, this is an example,

42:06

this article is an example of how what we call institutional

42:09

racism now impacts people in 2024.

42:13

Does that make sense? Did I do a good job of I think, I think you, well, you went even in more depth, I felt like, which the

42:20

so what I, what I want to do is just tell you a little story that'll kind of

42:23

give you most people an understanding or hopefully a better understanding

42:26

of how this like institutional racism, which that name is fucking terrible.

42:31

was going to say, like, make that relatable. this is one of the things that I hate about the, I don't know if you want to

42:36

call it left or like, uh, some people call them woke, but like people that are trying

42:41

to instigate positive social change.

42:44

They're the worst fucking marketers on earth.

42:47

Can't argue with that. that. Go ahead. So, um, let's talk about the film industry, right?

42:53

So, like, this is something that I think we all watch movies, we all watch TV.

42:56

For the longest time, it's starting to change a little bit

42:59

now, for the longest time, there was not minority representation.

43:04

Um, in films and TV, and if there was, it was very, very stereotyped.

43:09

So Asian Americans, you either had to know fucking Kung Fu or drive,

43:13

now, now it's like drive a fast car, you had a place.

43:16

Yeah. yeah, or you were very, if you were a man, you were very emasculated, so

43:20

think of like long duck dong, right? Or as a woman, you were basically a geisha.

43:26

And that was true for decades.

43:29

As a Hispanic, you were typically like a worker or maybe a gang member, right?

43:35

And that, that, that pervaded for decades.

43:38

It's now starting to change. African Americans, different story.

43:43

Okay. That is the largest minority group in the United States.

43:46

What, what year do you think we had the first romantic comedy with African

43:54

American, with an African American couple? Romantic comedy.

43:58

Oh, man. That's an interesting Well, okay, let me, let me actually rephrase that.

44:01

What year do you think we had a movie where the leading actors

44:05

were two African Americans? I follow.

44:08

Um, I want to say, shoot, uh, 80s or 90s.

44:14

It was in the 80s. Okay. Yeah. I was going to say late 80s, if anything.

44:18

Coming to America. Okay. Amazing, amazing movie.

44:22

I believe it was 89, 1989. It was the first movie, now, for those that aren't our age, because

44:29

I'm 44, um, for the, you know, like, 1989 might seem like an eternity ago.

44:35

But for me, I remember 1989.

44:37

It was not that long ago, right? That was the first time that there was a film with two African

44:45

American leads, and specifically an African American romantic comedy.

44:50

It's an amazing movie. It's one of the greatest comedies of all time.

44:53

But if you ever hear, if you happen to find an interview of

44:56

Eddie Murphy trying to get that movie made, it was a nightmare.

44:59

Nobody would fund the movie. Why?

45:02

Why? So, uh, you know, as an Asian American or half Asian American person,

45:07

I've also researched this too. Um, specifically because of Asian American actors, because the, the, the

45:14

movement into the mainstream has been very slow for Asian American actors.

45:20

So if you look at, or let me just ask you, why do you think there's not as much

45:25

Asian American representation in film and

45:29

I gotta go back to the money. Like, who's controlling the money?

45:33

Okay, so I have had somebody say that because Asian Americans are not

45:37

very good looking and, uh, that's why , they're not in the movies.

45:41

And I'm like, well, that's clearly racist.

45:43

Like, you are a very racist person. It's like, you know, like when you look in incarceration rates and there's more

45:48

African American unions in jail, it's like, well, they're just bad people.

45:51

And I'm like, well that is clearly racist.

45:53

So you, you know, you have racist beliefs. Um, but when we look back, it, it does come back to the money, but it's

45:59

not as sinister as you might think. Yeah.

46:01

Well, and, and I'm not, and I wouldn't even say it is that it's like, it's

46:04

almost like who's controlling it. So like, what are their biases?

46:07

What are the, all the, but go ahead.

46:09

Yeah. There's always layers. Yeah. so when you look at the movie business, there are hundreds of millions of

46:16

dollars that go in to make a film, right?

46:20

And if you're a writer, You want your film to get made, right?

46:24

Every writer's dream is to write a screenplay and have those films get,

46:28

get, uh, produced and put into movies.

46:34

If you're a producer, you've got hundreds of millions of dollars on the line.

46:37

They make a lot fewer movies these days. So you have to pick winners.

46:41

Like you cannot have, like if you have one movie that's a bomb, there's not

46:46

only you're probably going to lose your job, but there are thousands of other

46:50

people that are going to be out of work. So now you're very, very conscious of, man, I've got to pick a winner.

46:57

I got to pick a winner. And so you start to look at what are the movies that have come before that are

47:03

winners and you try and identify patterns.

47:06

And so the writers also know this.

47:09

So if you have a history, you know, say, you know, I don't know

47:12

how long the movie business has been around, but a hundred years.

47:15

And we're looking at all the hits and 90 percent of those have white leads.

47:21

Right? And the other 10 percent have African American leads.

47:26

As a writer, you're going to think, for me to get my movie made, I have

47:30

to put these people into the film. I have to write these characters

47:33

it's the model has been created. So it's like

47:36

Exactly. I have to follow that. Otherwise, I'm never going to get my movies made.

47:40

And then the producers are like, okay, so I'm going to analyze these scripts.

47:43

This is a great script, but based on what I'm looking at from a number standpoint,

47:47

there's absolutely no way that I can take this risk on this type of film.

47:52

I have to go, even though this is a great film, I have to go with

47:55

this script because this is the one that's going to make us money.

47:57

Mm hmm. So this is kind of like how it's a systemic problem or

48:01

an institutional problem. It's not overt racism, but there are elements of it that are racist, or there

48:08

is a, there is history that has kept people out of movie and film that is now

48:14

discriminating against people in 2024.

48:18

Does that make sense? it does. I mean, it's, it's, it's this.

48:21

The whole trail of events that's led us to here to this point, you know, and my

48:27

brain goes to like, how does this change?

48:29

Like we go back again, do people want to change?

48:32

Is there enough motivation? What does that look like?

48:35

yeah. So, um, I think the, the perfect example is actually one that Sonia gave,

48:40

where she was looking to buy a course. And she, she asked the company, do you make this in Spanish?

48:45

And they said, no, we don't do it in Spanish. Just so you know, 50 percent of the websites in the United,

48:50

or in the world are in Spanish. And I'll tell you a little,

48:54

And, or no, I'm sorry, 50 percent of the world, of the world speak Spanish.

48:57

Only like 10 percent of the world, uh, or 10 percent of the websites

49:02

on the internet are in Spanish. So it's a massive market that's not being touched.

49:06

There's actually there's nice AI tools now that we don't need to go into, but it makes it very easy

49:12

I know you mentioned those two. I would argue that the people that program those, unless they have Spanish speakers

49:17

on their staff, they probably aren't doing a very good with the translate,

49:21

That's probably accurate as hell. Oh, yeah.

49:23

A hundred percent. Yeah. and it's also different dialects in different countries, like in

49:27

the UK, if they, you know, they say bin and we say trash can, you know,

49:31

so it's like those little nuances. French spoken around the

49:34

world. Yeah, for So why do I care?

49:36

Yeah. I, so as a capitalist, right, as an entrepreneur and a capitalist

49:40

there, you're missing out on opportunities for not caring.

49:43

Um, now the only way that, uh, that you have the ability to

49:49

see these opportunities is by having a diverse workforce,

49:53

Mm hmm. right? Cause just like you and I are, you know, always texting back and

49:57

forth and I'm giving you shit. I'm giving you new ideas as well.

50:01

That's part of what I'm trying to do is change the way that you're thinking.

50:04

Now, this is where Ray Dalio has it really, really like

50:08

a brewing formula for this. He encourages having a diverse workforce because he wants people, whenever there's

50:17

a new problem that comes up, he wants to be able to go to the person who has

50:20

experience solving that type of problem.

50:23

And so as our. World is changing or our country is changing.

50:27

Our economy is changing. Our target audience is changing there.

50:31

If you have a diverse workforce, you're going to be, have a much better chance

50:35

of being able to identify untapped opportunities and you're going to win.

50:39

You're going to make a lot more money. So that's kind of like the capitalist reason why you should do that.

50:46

I want to make money. Like as a business owner, I want my business to grow and

50:50

I always want to make money. Um, I would hope that everybody is the same.

50:55

The world is not going to get less white or more white.

51:00

I hate to break it to you and it's not going to get more white.

51:03

Um, I think there are certain statistics that say that, you know, the white

51:09

population will be at like 50 percent in the next 30 years because a lot of

51:13

like interracial marriage and things like that, which I think is awesome.

51:17

Means that will, uh, the sunscreen industry will go out of business.

51:20

Yeah, less chemicals for everybody. And Yeah, exactly.

51:23

Um, you know, but this is just the way that it is.

51:25

The world is getting smaller. Travel is getting easier.

51:28

People are intermixing with each other and, and falling in love and

51:31

recognizing, Hey, we're all kind of the same, you know, like, uh, and,

51:35

and, and that's a good thing, I think as somebody who's not a racist,

51:39

A hundred percent. And so this is where, you know, if you have.

51:43

If you open your eyes to what's going on and you are open minded enough

51:48

to think differently, or be willing to entertain new ideas, I think

51:54

that you're going to have a great opportunity to make a lot of money.

51:58

I wouldn't agree any less man. I mean, um, or anymore, I guess.

52:01

I mean, it's, it's literally the world's changing.

52:05

It's more, it's smaller than ever before, you know, like you said, travel,

52:09

but also information, like even with AI and technology, the fact that.

52:14

You can translate to any language like that might not be perfect But now you know

52:19

if you're paying attention like there's a lot of things you can learn really

52:22

quickly about other cultures people I Feel like communication is like barriers

52:29

will be dropped because of technology You know already is like you can translate

52:33

on the fly have a full conversation not even know the language But now you start

52:36

to see oh, yeah, I am like them And we

52:40

no them. and there's no them. And that's the thing.

52:42

It's like the them, I guess, is everyone else in the planet other than myself.

52:47

You know, it's like, but even that we're all the same.

52:49

Like at the end, we, I was even looking at my dog and I, it's like, yeah, when I

52:54

have good vibes, like she responds well, she's over here laying next to me now.

52:59

It's like, when I feel good, I could see she's vibing on the energy.

53:03

What's to say she's not made up of the same thing I am, that you

53:06

are, that someone listening, like. It's all, we're all the same at the end of the day.

53:11

It doesn't matter. I I agree a hundred percent.

53:14

Um, and so, you know, I, I, I, I'm, I'm very hopeful for the future.

53:20

I'm kind of optimistic in that sense, even though most people

53:23

frustrate the hell out of me, It's never going to change.

53:25

People are people, you know, but, but maybe.

53:28

am hopeful for is that people will, uh, listen to podcasts like

53:32

this and be like, you know what? I never really thought about that before.

53:36

You know, like I, I am, I do see that things are not representative, and I am

53:42

willing to ask the question why, and I'm willing to hear other voices too, right?

53:48

Because I think that's kind of like the crux of it. If you wanna look at completely selfishly, you can make a lot of

53:53

money if you embrace diversity because this world is becoming more diverse.

53:56

Yep. But if you want to look at it from a human standpoint, and you, and you

54:01

truly believe that we should all have an equal and fair opportunity, right, then

54:07

I think just by recognizing that you should have an open mind and that there

54:12

is data that supports that something's broken, it's the right thing to

54:17

I think it is. I know it is. And my question, I'm thinking about now the minorities that are listening

54:24

here and the folks like yourself who are running businesses either for

54:28

themselves, um, maybe working within one, uh, thinking about starting one.

54:34

What's some advice that you can provide them

54:37

Yeah, this is a great point. Um, and we'll probably have to close on this cause

54:40

I think we're running out of time. Okay. Um, the majority of voices that are talking about DEI, which

54:47

I don't even like that term, So diversity, equity, and inclusion.

54:52

Yes. Okay. Just to define it The majority of the voices are from corporate America.

54:57

And so I don't work in corporate America, although my first job

54:59

was for a fortune 500 company. I don't work in corporate America.

55:02

I, uh, communicate mainly with entrepreneurs, right?

55:06

Small business owners. So if you're an employee and you work in a fortune 500 company or a very large

55:14

company, I'm going to say something that's a little bit controversial, right?

55:19

Um, I believe that change comes from the top.

55:22

And I do not think that the doors are magically going to open for you.

55:26

Actually, this goes for small business owners, too.

55:29

You are going to have to work hard. You are going to have to learn to play the game, right?

55:35

You are going to have to learn to work your way to the top.

55:38

And you're going to have to work a lot harder. It's just the way that it is right now.

55:43

But you are setting the foundation for the change that is going to come for

55:46

generations that are coming after you.

55:49

So in my opinion, it's worth it. If you're on your deathbed, you know, 60 years from now and you look back

55:55

and you're like, I was the first person to get to this position in

55:59

this company, or I was the first entrepreneur to speak on this stage.

56:03

I was the first entrepreneur to win this award or to earn this money.

56:08

And that paved the way for thousands and thousands of people to come after me.

56:12

I think that's a good life. You've lived a worthwhile life.

56:16

Yeah. And so that's kind of like my advice is that, like, we're not

56:20

where, we're not even remotely close to where things are equal.

56:23

Just look at the stats. Um, let's figure out how we can move the needle little by little.

56:30

It's going to take a long time. It's basically like we're going through a new civil rights movement.

56:35

Yeah. Let's figure out how we can move the needle little by little.

56:38

We're going to have to work very, very hard.

56:42

And you're gonna have to, like, get kicked in the teeth a lot.

56:46

It's just the way that it is. But let's just keep moving forward, right?

56:50

And let's, let's continue to educate and have conversations, meet great

56:54

people like Joe who are willing to, to learn and help share our perspectives.

56:59

And, uh, eventually we'll get there. And that's the thing.

57:01

I think at the end of the day, the way my big takeaway is exactly why I brought

57:05

you here in the first place is I want to open my mind to other perspectives, not

57:11

my own, because I know I'm in a bubble.

57:13

We're all in our own bubbles, but the fact is that we don't learn that way.

57:18

That's not how we collaborate. It's not how we grow as a, a unified, you know, everyone on this

57:23

planet in some way, you know, like.

57:26

We are all connected and I know it's not the woo woo since it's

57:29

like we legit are and you can count the ways yourself, you know?

57:33

Um, so having this understanding and knowing, you know, like the

57:36

term allies comes up, I know that like is, is, is part of it as well.

57:40

But just like, you know, at the end of the day, my takeaway is more

57:42

like, don't need labels, just be open minded, be curious and know that we

57:46

all have the ability to have impact. Some of us, and there's no fault of anyone, like we have our own biases,

57:52

conditioning, We might be more heady.

57:55

We might be more in our heart and thinking of that way.

57:57

So it's like there's these levels of, we mentioned earlier, consciousness.

58:01

So, and we're all different. It's fine.

58:03

There's nothing wrong with it. But we all have the ability to evolve in that sense, too.

58:08

Knowing that there's more than the game we're playing right now.

58:11

Like, all of us. Yeah. So, Chris?

58:14

Christopher? Dr. Martinez, um, tell us about, not a doctor.

58:21

Don't take any of this. No, I'm just kidding. Uh, give us the, the call to action to your stuff.

58:25

So dude agency, your event, leave us with that.

58:27

And then I mean, you know, my website is dudeagency.

58:29

io. We work with entrepreneur, not entrepreneur.

58:32

We work specifically with marketing agencies, um, helping

58:35

them to professionalize their business and fix their operations,

58:38

like consultants, essentially. But what I would like to say is we have a big event coming

58:43

up in San Diego in August. It's called agency freedom live.

58:47

It's going to be unlike any event you've ever gone to.

58:49

It's for marketing agency owners. You're going to go, you're going to have so much fun.

58:53

Our whole focus for this event is people.

58:56

So we've done this event. I think this is going to be our fourth one.

58:58

Um, we're changing it up a bit and it's going to be focusing on people.

59:01

So hiring or attracting, hiring, retaining, retaining, uh, the best people

59:06

out there and also on the leadership as well so that you can give them.

59:10

Great opportunities and help create leaders that will help you, um, build out

59:15

your vision as well as an entrepreneur. So that's going to be in August in San Diego.

59:21

Um, so. It's agencyfreedomlive.

59:25

com. You can go and grab a ticket. Uh, we have early bird tickets right now, so hopefully you'll be there.

59:30

Uh, we can hang out. Um, it's gonna be a ton of fun.

59:33

So, just to give you like a little bit of a preview, we're basically

59:36

gonna be in the classroom from like 9 to 3, and then the remainder of the

59:41

time there's gonna be tons of events. Even when you're in this like classroom, there's gonna be lots of interaction,

59:46

we're gonna be having you do games and stuff like that all while learning.

59:49

Um, And then evenings and afternoons, we're having tons of events outside where

59:54

you're networking, meeting people, also working too, but in a different way.

59:58

Um, so I'm super, super honest. You've had a boxing ring at your, or a Lucha Libre ring at your

1:00:06

booth at TNC before, so it's always

1:00:08

If there's one thing I can do, I can throw a really good party,

1:00:11

You know, so this is going to be an event and a party like rolled into one.

1:00:14

classroom wasn't selling me. Chris ain't gonna lie, but then, you know, but no, the fun that

1:00:19

you layer in everything you do I promise you it will be incredibly fun.

1:00:24

You will learn a ton. Also bring your employees too, cause they're going to learn and get to

1:00:28

grow with other people as well. Um,

1:00:30

And it's what about 99 percent white speakers.

1:00:33

Right. Is that, Oh, I would say I'm shooting for like a hundred percent

1:00:37

cool. Okay. Just making sure. All right.

1:00:40

Yeah, I'm shooting for a hundred percent minority on it audience and

1:00:43

a hundred percent white speakers Just so that I can be part of that the the kill whitey,

1:00:49

you know On that note,

1:00:53

Yeah, let's get out of here hopefully I don't get canceled