0:02

Welcome . I'm Dr Moose Herring , Orthopedic

0:04

Sports Medicine Specialist .

0:06

I'm Dr Rob Green , Sports Chiropractor

0:08

, Coach , Trustee Sidekick . We

0:10

are Lifetime Endurance Athletes . We are Eager

0:13

Lab Rats .

0:13

We are Maker of Many Mistakes . We are

0:15

Family-focused sports medicine docs

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that are balancing family work and fitness

0:20

and are enjoying the ride While

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we are sports medicine professionals . This podcast

0:24

is not part of our professional responsibilities

0:27

. No doctor , patient or coach-athlete

0:29

relationship developed this podcast . We

0:32

have no financial support from any outside

0:34

resources . The only support

0:36

we get is from our fantastic wives that

0:38

sit back and look at us in complete

0:40

dismay .

0:42

Welcome to HubLife . Enjoy the show

0:44

. Hublife

0:47

. Welcome back . It's been a couple

0:49

of weeks , moose , how you doing man Pretty good this

0:51

busy time of year for us .

0:54

Every patient that comes in

0:56

says you got to get me in because my deductible

0:58

changes January 1 . We're

1:01

at the point now where we're like sorry

1:03

, we just can't .

1:05

We're not going to change quantity

1:07

for quality .

1:08

We are full go , but

1:10

it's a busy time of year

1:12

.

1:12

Yeah , there's nothing more you can do . You can't invent extra

1:14

time . If you do like you said , that's

1:17

a big deal . I don't want my surgeon kind

1:19

of like burning the candle at both ends

1:21

.

1:21

I am so happy that our racing season

1:23

is in the spring and the

1:25

summer and the fall , and then work

1:28

is just crazy

1:30

right now . So there's no work-life balance

1:33

, but one takes over and there's

1:35

definitely a flux of things .

1:37

Yeah , you're Yin and Yang man , your

1:39

work , yang is pretty thick

1:41

right now . So you're training right now , so thick

1:43

.

1:44

Yin is done . But , trying

1:46

to be consistent , my

1:48

calf is better . I'm up to five

1:51

. I ran this

1:53

morning five times five one with no pain

1:55

off the bike . So it's fantastic

1:57

Deep into my road

1:59

challenge and I'm just amazed how

2:02

just absolutely absurdly

2:04

hard rowing is . I

2:06

did my first 2K road challenge to

2:11

set my time trial last

2:14

week and was super happy

2:16

, but was smoked

2:18

for like 24 hours yeah .

2:20

Smoked , which I don't think since

2:22

we've had a couple of weeks away

2:24

. I don't think we've talked about it , but there's been two incidents

2:27

right . There's been a pickleball incident

2:29

and there's been a rowing incident

2:31

.

2:32

I think we talked about my calf .

2:33

No , I don't think so , man . I think , yeah , I think it's

2:35

been that long . I think you and I have talked about it , but I don't

2:37

think we shared it . But

2:39

no , because it happened after

2:42

last podcast .

2:43

I'm four weeks .

2:44

Yeah , so we missed three weeks

2:46

. I think , wow , so we're not missed

2:48

. I mean , we're trying to do it weekly but life

2:51

happens . But after that podcast

2:53

, you were going to be right family first . So

2:55

what'd you do ? Right After we had ran like

2:58

two hours on the trails , right , and

3:00

then the next day , what'd you do ?

3:02

I rode two hours and 15

3:04

minutes doing low cadence

3:06

, strength stuff , yeah , and then I did

3:09

a little jog off the bike and was tired

3:11

. But to spend some quality

3:13

time with my wife I decided to go play pickleball

3:15

and tore

3:18

my medial head of my gastroc

3:20

at the muscle tendon junction playing pickleball

3:22

. And I may have said some few choice

3:24

words around that incident . And then

3:27

it really was

3:29

a bummer because it took me out of marathon

3:32

training and I'm

3:34

just not a nice guy when I'm not running

3:36

.

3:36

So how about how it happened , though ? Right , you

3:39

were all done . So how does that happen

3:41

?

3:42

I was done . I was happy . I was sitting on the

3:44

bench with my shirt on , ready to go , and they

3:46

decided to play one more game .

3:48

Just one more , one more game . Hey , doc

3:50

, I was feeling really good right up to that point

3:52

.

3:53

That's why , on your

3:55

intervals , shut down before you're

3:57

absolutely smoked . So it's . I

4:00

mean to go and do a plyometric

4:03

type exercise with fatigue methanal

4:05

legs is not the best , but

4:07

the hub , the hub way is

4:09

family first and I thought I was spending quality time with

4:11

my wife . Now the worst

4:13

ironic thing is she

4:16

broke her foot the next week after

4:18

playing pickleball . Oh man , and

4:20

it's hard , hard for

4:23

this kind caring , compassionate individual to have

4:25

any any kind caring , compassionate

4:27

words for her Cause I was linting around and

4:29

you know she was in a boot . She broke her foot . We were

4:31

a mess . So it's awful hard

4:33

to hit those pickles .

4:35

Man , it's funny how those injuries happen . I don't know about you

4:38

anytime and I'll share mine with you , but anytime

4:40

we've done it it's kind of like I knew it , I knew it

4:43

, I knew it and helps us . I don't know about you . We're

4:45

better providers that way . Just for the fact that , like it , we

4:47

go through not only the physical experience

4:50

with all , but the mental side of it and the frustration

4:52

and talk to patients all the time

4:54

. Being injured sucks . This is part of is

4:56

part of the deal and unfortunately it happens in

4:58

the weirdest places . And you know if

5:01

you , if you went back , you probably do the same thing . You

5:03

just wouldn't play that last game . But but

5:06

it happens . And what do you do with it ? Right , you , you

5:08

, you have that hits , you fit it first and then

5:10

you get the other side of it and then you focus

5:12

because you're you're already back and you're doing run , walk . You

5:15

got a nice good progression back . You're running pain free .

5:16

You got a goal of , by December

5:18

, to be 60 minutes back and you , you

5:21

do what you can and yeah , so

5:23

, so , so really , you know exactly you

5:25

do what you can , and so we

5:28

kind of set this goal and so this will go back to you

5:30

as we set this goal . If I can't run

5:32

out , I'm going to try to row

5:34

again . So last winter we

5:36

set a row challenge and kind of

5:38

a national standard is 2k

5:41

and so you you can look

5:43

on online and see what the national , national

5:45

averages for all age groups for 2k time

5:47

trial on the ERG too . So

5:50

I decided I was going to set that again . I've been working

5:52

, been working , working toward that and

5:54

I did my first 2k challenge last week . It

5:56

is amazing how hard

5:59

rowing is . So

6:01

it was shocking that

6:03

I did a 2 , I did a 2k row challenge

6:06

and my max heart rate

6:08

? I hit a max heart rate I hadn't

6:10

seen in two years . Yeah , Wow , Two

6:12

years , yeah . And in the last three

6:14

minutes of that 2k row challenge I

6:16

was well above zone 27 . It was

6:19

insane and I'm sure the people that were like

6:22

what's going on

6:24

.

6:24

Yeah , and it's good to get that

6:26

heart rate mat . You wouldn't do it every day , but it's a missing

6:28

component , especially when we do long core stuff and

6:30

we don't . And how many , if you look

6:32

at it , and the amount of muscle recruitment

6:35

that is done in a row . Yeah

6:37

, but now that leads to like I've had

6:39

a rowing incident , like so I , we've done

6:41

this , we're fragile . Oh man

6:44

, and it was . I mean , it's classic . So maybe

6:47

we put out there there's a really fun row challenge

6:49

to do , and and heed

6:51

some advice on my part , because I've I've

6:54

used a rower before , but I have not

6:56

used it , you know , from other

6:59

than just every once in a while . And so I

7:01

went into a deep dive of technique because

7:03

I started the row challenge . I was doing it . It was like

7:05

you know what I'm going to get into , this

7:07

too , moose is great and

7:09

and so I didn't kind of know exactly

7:12

what I was doing , but I know how to row it . And then we

7:14

were looking for time . So I went in a deep dive and formed

7:16

to figure out , well , how do I improve on

7:18

my form ? And like anything

7:20

that's new , I was like , well , crap , I'm doing it totally wrong

7:22

. Right , I'm sort of that classic guy that was making

7:25

a basically a polling exercise rather

7:27

than a pushing exercise . So it changed that

7:29

flip , that paradigm of like you

7:31

know that , that slow recovery and

7:34

then really kind of like press the machine

7:36

, like you're trying to push it across the room and then

7:38

finish it off with the poll . And so

7:41

I came in Monday morning . I came

7:43

in before work because we have a rower here at Hub . And

7:46

you know , I did . I practiced for one

7:48

K . I practiced this new form and it was

7:50

like a game changer . I was so excited . I'm

7:52

like , oh , dude , I finally

7:54

got the catch , I got the rhythm

7:56

. My pace went way down . I'm like , oh

7:59

, I can't wait to see what this looks like . And

8:01

then the next K I sort of built into

8:03

it and built into it and built into it and

8:05

was just like my 500 meter pace

8:07

went down , so much that I just got so damn excited

8:09

, right , and I overreached

8:11

as I was getting fatigue on that like

8:14

drawback , and I did exactly

8:16

what we teach people not to do flexed in

8:18

the spine , yeah , and then pressed

8:20

in the machine and from a flexed lumbar

8:22

spine started to push back and

8:24

click , pop . And that's

8:26

to me . It's like , if I'm listening to this podcast

8:28

, I wish I could just rewind 15 seconds , absolutely

8:31

, because that was my disc , yeah

8:33

, and I was like , oh , no

8:35

, no , no , no , and came

8:37

into my office , was on my back , pretty sure , I

8:39

texted you pretty quickly into it . It was like , hey

8:42

, might need you to write me

8:44

a script for some anti inflammatory . Yeah

8:46

, was lucky , lucky

8:48

, lucky , lucky that there is no nerve

8:50

involvement . So I had five days of significant

8:53

downtime and then second week back into

8:55

it getting my range . It's what I will . We do for rehabilitation

8:58

of my own good patient , yeah

9:00

but . But there's been a pickleball

9:02

incident , there's been a rowing incident . So get

9:05

into the road challenge , look at technique and

9:07

just be mindful as you get excited . Right

9:09

, don't be a knucklehead , maybe that's I'll

9:11

give you a lesson from knucklehead earlier . Is , you

9:14

know , always perfect form failure

9:17

never , never , outkick your form .

9:18

Yeah , and I think if you're interested in the road challenge

9:21

, you know here here's the deal Don't compare

9:23

yourself with others . Make

9:26

sure you look at technique , because technique

9:28

is critical . Critical and

9:31

be warmed up before

9:33

, before you , before you start doing anything aggressive

9:36

on the road , cause here's a ton of force across your low

9:38

back , there's a ton of force across your legs

9:40

, but you know , looking back on my notes

9:42

from last year , what it taught me and

9:44

what I learned from it is being able to tolerate

9:47

a high heart rate . It's amazing

9:49

and for me , for my training

9:52

, I don't get into much high

9:54

heart rate and I tend to run really low , but

9:57

for some reason , the rower , within

9:59

several minutes I can be through through the roof and

10:01

me and me being able to tolerate . So

10:04

just set a goal . So if you , if you , row

10:06

a 2K , our goal

10:08

is you row a 2K and then by February we're

10:10

one , you , you row a second

10:13

2K and that change

10:15

is your progress

10:18

. It doesn't matter what your 2K time is , it doesn't

10:20

matter what it involves , 2k , but , but , but you're just looking

10:22

for for progress and I guarantee , if you row

10:24

and you row hard , your tolerance

10:27

and your and your tolerance

10:29

for high heart rate and fatigue will change

10:31

yeah .

10:32

And it's we'll talk about in sometime

10:34

in the future , about cross training and the winter time . Just

10:36

do something different , make it fun , challenge about it , be different

10:38

and and like

10:40

Dr Harry said , like do some

10:42

diligence , learn how to use the piece of equipment

10:45

. I did that as well and I would take . Take

10:47

a lesson for me Something that we preach

10:49

in in in movement correction all the time too

10:51

is slow is smooth

10:53

and smooth as fast . I

10:56

had just I was rowing is new

10:58

to me and it's a new skill and I had developed

11:00

the technique , but what I

11:02

hadn't done was trained

11:04

the ability to do it over

11:06

sustained time , so I did the old too much , too

11:08

quick . You know , hindsight's 2020 , if

11:10

I went back , I would have done exactly

11:13

what I did , but I would have been slower

11:15

in the progression of power until I really

11:17

mastered good , consistent techniques

11:19

. So slow is smooth , smooth is fast . Go

11:22

slow , focus on good technique , add a little

11:24

bit of of

11:26

intensity to it , slowly , progressively

11:29

, until perfect form failure and

11:31

over time , you're ramping up and you can

11:33

start to deliver a max heart rate and

11:36

know that you're formed to get sloppy , because I was

11:38

about 600 meters

11:40

into a 1k effort and I

11:42

just I rushed it before

11:44

I had earned the right to be able

11:46

to do it . My technique got sloppy . You can do

11:48

it right 99 times and

11:50

wrong once . In that one will put you on your butt

11:52

, like it did for me . So slow is smooth

11:55

, smooth is fast . Get the technique

11:57

down . Practice the technique slowly , build up

11:59

, start easy , go into

12:01

this sort of steady to mod , hard , mod

12:03

, hard to hard . So get that down

12:05

before you just blast into it . And

12:08

that is from personal experience

12:10

. So so try not to do that and

12:12

hopefully we'll save you from

12:14

a big injury . Awesome

12:16

. So what's happening ? Man , you had some current events that

12:18

were out there . You were talking about some NCAA

12:21

women .

12:21

Yeah , so I have to admit I've got some

12:23

crushes out there . There's two women

12:26

runners that I've been falling

12:28

for years and years and they are Phenoms

12:31

. Caitlyn Tuey from NC

12:33

, nc state and

12:35

Parker Valby from Florida

12:38

have been the top collegiate

12:40

runners for the last three , two

12:43

or you know two or three years Now . If

12:45

you follow collegiate running , you know their names . If you

12:47

don't , I would ask you to look them up

12:49

, because they are incredible

12:51

, and today is the

12:53

NCAA cross country champs

12:56

where they're going head to head .

12:58

Yeah , and that's it . That's not far away

13:00

, charlottesville . Yeah , so we've got an interview

13:02

coming up with Kiera that we're super

13:05

excited about Kiera DeMotto and we were going

13:07

to do it this weekend , but she's actually at those

13:09

races which is a rock

13:11

star American runner , but

13:14

yeah , to be right up the street , that's

13:16

pretty incredible .

13:17

I want to give you a little history on them , just to just

13:20

to tell you why I have a little bit of a

13:22

crush on them . So Caitlyn

13:24

, who goes to NC state , last

13:28

year her 5K time 1570

13:33

. Oh my God . Okay

13:35

, in the fall of 2021-22

13:40

, in the cross country championships

13:42

, she came and put down

13:44

the most most incredible last mile

13:46

to catch Parker

13:48

Valby . Parker Valby when

13:51

these two girls race , they race with different strategies

13:53

. Yeah , the Caitlyn

13:55

Tui she tends to run strong

13:57

and steady and then at the

14:00

end she just crushes her dreams . She's amazing

14:02

at the end and Parker Valby , as

14:04

soon as it goes off , she folds her

14:06

ears back and just dashes . She's

14:08

like a pre-fontain . It's ridiculous

14:10

. And so last year in

14:12

the NCAA cross country championships , parker Valby

14:14

went out like she normally does and put probably 20

14:17

seconds on the field 20 seconds

14:19

and Caitlyn was running

14:21

with the pack . And the last mile , which

14:23

was up this steep , steep hill

14:25

, she put in one of the most ridiculous

14:27

miles you ever see and caught her for

14:30

the finish . And they finished one too . And

14:32

then in the winter , in the spring , valby

14:37

had an injury , caitlyn Tui had an injury . They were kind

14:39

of back and forth . And then the opening

14:41

race this year for

14:44

cross country , parker Valby

14:46

won by 15 seconds . So today

14:48

was the showdown and my

14:51

new PA is out on the course

14:53

and he just sent me a text Parker

14:56

way out front . So she folded

14:58

her ears back in and dashed and

15:01

ended up winning by four to five seconds

15:03

. And Caitlyn was

15:05

running with the pack and I think she folded back to fourth

15:08

or fifth . But it has been

15:10

one of the greatest collegiate

15:13

competitions

15:16

between two people that they've ever

15:18

seen . It's amazing . So it's

15:20

a huge salute to women's running . It's

15:23

a huge salute to women's

15:26

collegiate running . But just phenomenal

15:28

athletes and I might be a little bit of a stalker

15:30

on both .

15:31

I just yeah , but does

15:33

it count if you at least say it out loud ? But

15:35

how cool is that for them to ? I mean to have a standout

15:38

like that , but to have a competitor that pushes

15:40

you into have two different styles and see those compete

15:42

against each other , that's really pretty cool

15:44

.

15:45

So they had a conference yesterday

15:47

and they were they were

15:49

interviewing the racers about their , their

15:52

ideas and her , her

15:54

, caitlyn , should we say . She

15:56

focuses on day

15:58

to day , she workouts

16:00

and rest with intention , yeah

16:02

, and she really looks after

16:04

the team , yeah , to make sure all

16:07

the girls are doing very well , yeah , so

16:09

here's a girl who's one of the top collegiate

16:11

runners she , she will go pro

16:13

she hasn't already gone pro whose

16:15

focuses on day to day

16:17

, workouts with intention

16:19

, she rests with with intention and

16:21

she's also around with the team approach .

16:23

Yeah .

16:24

It's great lessons to learn . We know all learn from that

16:27

, yeah . The second thing is I don't

16:29

know if anybody else follows it , but for

16:32

your past USAT Membership

16:35

you got an outside plus

16:37

membership as well for free

16:39

, right , oh , yeah , yeah , so you

16:42

got to read outside magazine . Well , that

16:44

relationship has split and

16:46

you need to check because there

16:48

was a there was a yearly Update

16:51

. You probably got charged 95 bucks as

16:54

soon as you update your USAT phone

16:56

, usat membership Outside

16:59

. If you hadn't unchecked that box may have charged

17:01

you 95 bucks , sketchy

17:03

, right . So there's there's some upheaval

17:05

there . Yeah so if you're not using it outside

17:08

and you get a $95 charge

17:10

, you need to met somebody , know . But the relationship

17:12

between USAT and outside is done .

17:14

Yeah , I can't imagine . I mean the

17:17

magazines and outside of . How are they surviving

17:19

in the world of , like online stuff ? I mean , who's

17:22

sort of paying for that stuff ? It's all online . Yeah

17:25

, I had no idea . I haven't renewed it yet , so I'll keep an eye

17:27

out for that .

17:27

Keeping out for me and just make sure , sure

17:29

, sure , when you do renew it you don't get charged

17:32

extra 95 bucks from outside

17:34

that because relationships split . Yeah , and

17:36

then the next thing is if you Looked

17:38

on on slow twitch , Try

17:41

bike transport . We've all

17:43

used to transport a bike is

17:45

in a cash crunch . Yeah , and as

17:48

of November 13th Four

17:51

days ago they're no longer transporting

17:54

bikes . Yeah but there , there

17:56

, there are some people in flux because what

17:58

happened is ? They're there

18:00

. The bikes from

18:02

a Spain Trafflon

18:05

are being held by

18:07

this carrier because tri bike

18:09

transfer owes them $70,000

18:12

. Yeah , so , so what Ironman did that ? They came

18:14

in and putting cash to

18:16

pay for the transport for nice

18:19

Latte

18:22

tea , which is a 70 point point , three

18:24

worlds , but but there's still a Cargo

18:27

little bikes .

18:28

Yeah , it's being held and some

18:30

coming back from Kona , I think too , or like

18:32

they were concerned , they're being being held , yeah

18:34

, so .

18:35

so if you've used , if you've used tri

18:37

bike transport , I want to be aware

18:40

, but but apparently the number

18:42

is that they up to $300,000

18:46

in debt . Yeah , further for their transportation .

18:47

That's . That's sad man , because , like , I don't know about

18:49

you , but that's a luxury , I mean it's . It was expensive

18:52

and I can't imagine how much more expensive

18:54

. Imagine that escalated very

18:56

quickly the cost of transporting the bikes Over

18:58

, since and they yeah , so they . They made up

19:01

. You know a management error , but but using

19:03

them it's a luxury . You take your pedals off

19:05

, you drop your bike , you pick up your bike . It never

19:07

gets disassembled .

19:09

So I don't know if they survived , but I , but I man

19:11

, I would really hope they do and

19:13

because you and I both know we , you know , last year we went

19:15

through the stress of figuring out our new bike

19:18

bags and , yeah , transforming that's stressful

19:20

, it is , man , oh my god , I'll pay

19:22

somebody to take my bike and

19:24

to have a system where I pick it up . Oh man

19:26

, but that's , that's gonna

19:29

know .

19:29

If there's , I'm sure there are other bike transport , but

19:31

but something that's been been kind of ingrained

19:33

in our sport , yeah , is gone

19:35

and you know , the other thing I've read in that too

19:37

, that would stuck out for me too , is is

19:39

Ironman has been getting in rightfully

19:41

so a lot of hard time about stuff lately . They

19:44

stepped in , I mean , they , they have skin in the game

19:46

on it , they're they're racers , bikes but they did

19:49

step in and financially , yeah

19:51

, you get them out of

19:53

it . I'd be curious if Ironman ends up buying

19:55

right , try bike transport , I don't , I wonder

19:57

, but , but they did step in when the athlete was in

19:59

need , and whether there was

20:01

some self-serving without . Either way

20:04

, they came to the table with money . So

20:06

I think they should be padded on the back for that

20:08

.

20:08

That's a big deal , yeah and the

20:10

last thing is I'm in . I'm in . Florida

20:12

was a couple weekends ago . It

20:15

must have been a freaking perfect

20:17

day . Yeah if you look at the times , holy

20:20

cow . Yeah , rudy von Berg went 734

20:23

. Yeah , the top 10 were

20:26

all sub eight . Oh wow , so

20:28

you , you had to go

20:30

sub eight . Even there's one guy who went

20:32

sub eight and got no money . That's

20:34

crazy .

20:35

Yeah , no money .

20:35

It was up eight yeah so and

20:38

then sky much one when the women's at 822

20:41

. But all the times you know the age group are times

20:43

, the pro times . It must have been super

20:46

fast day . Yeah , run was cool

20:48

, but you know bike ride .

20:49

But not windy on the bike , cool run

20:52

. That that's a crazy . The swim can be slow

20:54

out there with the open water , ocean

20:56

swim but it's wet suit , but no , that's

20:58

a crazy . It's a crazy fast course on a good

21:00

day . And there's what . There's been Florida

21:02

days where it's like 40 and raining

21:05

, which is crazy for Florida , and there's the

21:07

other ones where it's just been like scorching hot . Yeah

21:09

yeah , that's pretty awesome , man , I mean day . But

21:11

yeah , yeah , good , good , good

21:13

job to them you know , I still

21:15

haven't , and maybe I do a little

21:18

bit of a deeper dive Between

21:20

PTO , between Iron man . I feel like they . I don't

21:22

know if they're playing a game of chicken with one another , who's

21:24

gonna announce first , but I feel like they . They

21:26

. What's going on for next year ? Who

21:28

knows ?

21:28

Yeah , I don't . I don't Because

21:31

because we talked about on podcast . You

21:34

know a couple couple months ago that PTO

21:36

is gonna come up with an age group series . Age

21:39

group champion .

21:39

October .

21:40

October yeah haven't seen in November

21:42

, right , yeah , I think Iron man came out , so they're

21:44

gonna have a pro series . It's gonna

21:46

be up to 1.7 million dollars in prize money

21:48

.

21:49

So my conspiracy theory is they

21:51

both have it . They're just waiting for the other one

21:53

to announce first so they can come in behind

21:55

it and like , make some , make some

21:57

calculated decisions and but

22:01

but no , I'm eager to see what next year looks like , because I

22:03

don't know about you . I don't . I don't really have a Hardcore

22:06

plan . I know I need something . This

22:09

year was a little bit of an off year , like

22:11

you , for you we would . Penn State 73

22:14

, yeah , yeah .

22:15

I think . I think I mean , and an interesting

22:17

thing is , if you look at USAT Nationals

22:21

, for us it's within driving distance . Where's

22:24

that ? Atlantic City ? I don't think

22:26

. I saw that four hours away .

22:28

So it's a T national , so that's all . These be

22:30

in Milwaukee , mm-hmm and that's so

22:33

. Pto sort of took over the Milwaukee and

22:35

then USA to , so is USA T long course

22:37

. That's different than what the PTO is . It's not long

22:39

course .

22:40

It'll be Olympic national

22:42

on Saturday and Sprint national on Sunday

22:44

. Gotcha , that's something to think about .

22:46

Yeah , I know people went to Milwaukee

22:50

and had a great experience . It was fun . It's a great event .

22:52

But and it'll be interesting to see if , see if

22:54

PTO tags on to that , yeah , who

22:56

knows ? But just I , you know , looking at

22:59

maybe some trail racing , looking some local

23:02

racing with kinetic multi sport , I don't know

23:04

. But you're right , I need common Norstar

23:07

because there's Saturday mornings when you get

23:09

up , you think . I really want to get on

23:11

a trainer , yeah two hours .

23:14

I struggle January

23:16

, february or especially January in

23:18

the trainer on the trainer probably

23:20

trails this trails man . So

23:23

no , interesting man . A lot of cool

23:26

stuff going on Local

23:28

. Local women's championship

23:30

is right down the road . I'm in Florida . Try

23:33

bike . I hope you survive . Yeah

23:35

, usa team might be drivable next year , so yeah

23:38

welcome to holiday time , right

23:40

? All

23:46

right , miss , I got something for you maybe

23:48

on this podcast that

23:50

you Got me into . We

23:52

were at Kona and we had met with

23:54

the group at Super Sapiens and

23:56

for those that don't know , especially in Europe , super Sapiens

23:58

is is a continuous

24:01

glucose monitor system

24:04

and A

24:06

patch . Probably seen a bit different races , they're

24:08

not approved here in the FDA , but but you

24:10

got a chance to have the patch on

24:12

and got to see your blood sugar and

24:15

the monitoring that for us as endurance athletes and

24:17

man I was , I jealous . That was really pretty cool . We've we've

24:19

talked to them about you may be teaming

24:21

up , especially with the metabolic testing and things that we do here

24:23

, but now

24:25

, after the back incident on the rower

24:28

and I'm Not

24:30

as active as I want to be right

24:32

now , and so what do I do ? You can write

24:35

you , you focus on things you can and nutrition

24:37

for me , right . So nutrition , especially in the wintertime

24:39

, I'm like you know what . This is a time for me to hit

24:41

the reset button , focus things I can do

24:43

. Let me tighten up my nutrition . I tend to eat

24:45

pretty sloppy around this time of year and just

24:48

kind of get away with it , because you're usually training

24:50

a decent amount . And one of those things was

24:52

to get a continuous glucose

24:54

monitor . And

24:56

I went to primary care here in US you have

24:58

to have a script for it and she

25:00

was confused . She was like so what

25:03

do you want ? I was like I just need . I did

25:05

the research . I ended up getting a dexcom

25:07

g7 and

25:10

I told the reasons why and she was like that's a great

25:12

idea . Like so she was a big fan of it . But

25:14

she that's first time that she had come across somebody who's

25:16

healthy you think of somebody who's diabetic

25:18

and monitoring blood sugar . And

25:21

so I was diving into it and I've been using it and

25:23

I thought it'd be really cool , because I know you did a deep

25:25

dive , you used it in real time and

25:27

I thought it'd be really cool about , like , what was your

25:29

experience ? What can I learn from it ? What

25:32

can others learn from it ? And then you know if you're

25:34

interested , it's not that

25:36

hard . It's a bit expensive if

25:38

you're gonna do it in the US To

25:40

get a CGM . And well , again , cgm

25:43

being that continuous glucose monitor . So

25:46

I thought I'd bring that up to you and be like hey , moose

25:48

, I got my , I got my

25:50

CGM . And

25:53

man . I've already seen some decisions . I was like

25:55

, oh crap , right , we all sort of

25:57

know and most I would imagine most people out there

25:59

know good health decisions

26:01

, they know what they should be doing , right

26:03

. But reality is like test on guests . When

26:06

I see the graph I'm like , oh , that was a bad decision

26:08

. And then there's some assumptions that I made

26:10

from before that you know in theory how

26:12

my body should react to it , and my body reacts

26:14

different Sometimes than I . What I

26:16

thought it was . So like we'll

26:19

start where you want to start . But my thought process

26:21

was bring it up to you With

26:23

your , with your medical background and your personal

26:25

background , and be like dude , how was it for you , what

26:28

can you share with me ? And and figure

26:30

out where we go from there .

26:32

That's great . So when I

26:34

got involved in the super sapien

26:36

research project

26:38

probably six weeks before

26:41

Before Kona last

26:43

year so it was right after Mount Tremblant

26:45

and and before before Kona

26:47

and I wrote that road in

26:49

I got involved in this project and I wore this monitor

26:51

through Kona and

26:53

probably I

26:56

took two weeks off After

26:58

Kona and then then wore it for

27:00

a month or so running

27:03

trails just

27:05

as an experiment and and

27:08

during that time and recently you and I've been talking about

27:10

it I've done kind of a deep dive research

27:13

, looking at what it's supposed

27:15

to mean , what it's not to mean , and

27:17

it's interesting what the true

27:20

science tells us and

27:22

we can talk about that . Yeah

27:24

, so a Continuous

27:26

glucose monitor , cgm

27:29

what it does , it's a device you

27:31

wear , it's about the size of a dollar

27:34

coin that goes on your

27:36

skin . It's inserted with a

27:38

monofilament that goes in the interstitial

27:41

space . And that's important to understand because

27:43

You're you're not tapping

27:45

the blood , you're tapping the interstitial

27:48

space . And what does that mean ? There's a space

27:50

between your skin and your blood

27:52

vessels that holds fluid and

27:54

that fluid is a it's kind

27:56

of a secondary Representation

27:59

of what your glucose level

28:01

is . But because you're testing the interstitial

28:03

fluid , not the blood , there

28:06

will be some delay and some effect

28:08

in the measurements . Okay , so it's important to know

28:10

what the monitor is now . Why

28:12

was the monitor developed ? The monitor was

28:14

developed for diabetic control

28:16

, mainly type 1

28:19

, so that those patients that

28:21

have Pancreas cells that

28:23

do not respond to insulin is

28:25

supposed to help them with their control , because

28:27

their control when it

28:30

, when you have diabetes and you

28:32

eat your insulin , does not respond

28:34

and you have too much blood

28:36

glucose in your system and

28:38

that wreaks havoc on everything from Kidney

28:41

, liver , eyeballs , you know

28:43

everything so so so the good idea there

28:46

for for this continuous , continuous glucose

28:48

monitor was to have diabetics

28:50

have a real-time time number

28:52

that Back

28:55

to their , their control and

28:57

now their their insulin monitors

29:00

that are directly Connected

29:03

to this continuous glucose

29:06

monitor that helps them keep their , help

29:09

them to keep their glucose level

29:11

. Okay , so the continuous glucose

29:14

monitor was aimed for diabetes Type

29:16

1 , type 2 , but now there's

29:18

interest over the last three or four years in

29:21

the endurance or sports population

29:23

and there's a there's

29:25

some really good science going on . There's

29:27

a lot of really marketing

29:31

blogs going on , but the

29:33

science

29:36

is getting to be pretty

29:38

clear .

29:38

Yeah .

29:39

So there are a couple

29:41

of key things . So what they recommend

29:43

to you is that you validate

29:46

the monitor with bloodsticks . So

29:50

if you're diabetic and you're wearing one

29:52

of the diabetic monitors , they tell you machine's

29:55

not really validated unless

29:57

you do bloodsticks

30:00

to calibrate it . Okay , and

30:03

if you look up , there's a super sapient

30:05

literature which I have . There's no

30:07

, there's no statement

30:09

on accuracy .

30:10

Yeah , so we don't really know what the accuracy

30:12

is .

30:13

So if you're , if you're wearing a monitor and you're

30:15

making decisions based on that

30:17

, that accuracy , that may or may

30:19

not be a great thing . The other

30:21

key thing is there is a delay

30:25

in your glucose

30:27

response to what the monitor is

30:29

telling you . That's one thing I didn't understand when

30:31

I was , when I was running with it last fall

30:33

, I was like this is awesome , I can

30:35

, I can look at my run and I can

30:38

see at an hour my glucose

30:40

was dropping a little bit and I was testing

30:42

different gels to try to figure out . You

30:44

know , you know what ? What ? We

30:47

are not getting arrested , yeah , don't panic .

30:49

It's not covering it . It's like I started checking

30:51

my pockets . I'm like do I have anything in there ?

30:53

So so you

30:55

, you got to be careful when you're saying you're

30:57

making a decision on what you're doing , because

30:59

there is a delay in the interstitial

31:02

glucose level compared to your

31:04

blood glucose level , and it's

31:06

about 15 minutes , okay . And

31:08

the other thing that I just found out about is

31:10

there's a one day equilibrium

31:13

in the system every

31:15

time you change your monitor . What they're

31:17

telling people is if you , you , you , you change

31:20

, change , change your monitor , it lasts about

31:22

two , two weeks or so , right , so ? So

31:24

so if you , if you change a monitor that

31:26

first day , it means

31:29

nothing because there's an

31:31

inflammation response around .

31:33

So that that's the thing with , like the G seven that's

31:35

come out . That's where it's . It's different in the US , so that was a super

31:37

sapiens one . I'm curious and I don't

31:39

know the answer to this . But with this new G

31:41

seven they say it's a

31:43

hour's calibration . So now they've

31:45

cut it down because their monitors are 10 days

31:48

. So , like where super sapiens was 14

31:50

days , the monitor for the

31:53

one I'm using is 10 and apparently it's

31:55

come down and they'll talk about . You're taking

31:57

the finger prick , especially if you see they

31:59

validated about how I want

32:02

to say maybe 5% as far as error , but

32:05

if you ever get any sort of abnormal readings

32:07

to to draw and , just you know , validate

32:09

the fact that it's pretty close , but but

32:12

that seems to be down a little bit . But

32:14

but no , it's definitely something to be aware of .

32:16

So the accuracy , the

32:18

real time accuracy , is not there yet .

32:21

Yeah .

32:21

Right , and we can talk

32:23

about that . As far as wearing a monitor

32:25

to race or train , and 15 minutes

32:27

isn't that bad , though .

32:29

I mean you're looking at like two hours of how your body's responding

32:31

to sugars that are in it . So it's

32:33

as long as you know it , Right .

32:36

So I was listening to this , this , this podcast

32:39

, talk about it a couple of days ago and

32:41

he was saying can you imagine

32:43

the elite level marathoners wearing

32:45

it ? So by the time

32:47

they get their number , they're 5k up

32:49

the road . So

32:51

they're making decisions at the 15k

32:55

mark on numbers . They saw it at

32:57

the 10k mark .

32:59

Well , that's why you'd hope they'd be using it in training

33:01

, to make training decisions and see it retrospectively

33:04

.

33:04

That's exactly right , so that's key

33:06

is having a purpose

33:09

, exactly

33:11

what you're using it for . So

33:13

the interesting thing when you look at this

33:15

is the only thing it does

33:18

is it looks at

33:21

your glucose stability . That's

33:23

the only thing it does , right ? It

33:25

tells you , rob Green , which

33:27

what your glucose stability is , and our

33:29

whole goal is to try to blunt

33:32

out those spikes and

33:34

valleys . Yep , that's your whole goal

33:36

. So , if you have good glucose control

33:38

, that's the goal . So

33:41

you can look at

33:43

response to training . You

33:45

can look at response to eating

33:48

before , during and

33:50

after . How that ?

33:52

goes .

33:54

So the blood is basically

33:56

a conveyor belt to deliver

33:58

glucose to the muscles , right , that's

34:01

supposed to be what it does . That's all it does . And

34:04

so the average fasting glucose

34:06

is between 80 and 90

34:08

value . Right , we think there

34:10

is a performance zone . We don't

34:12

know how to define that , right , because your

34:14

performance zone , your glucose level

34:16

, may be 80 . My performance zone

34:19

, my glucose level , may be 60 . We

34:21

just don't know .

34:22

It's like a heart rate , where it's sort of like

34:24

everybody can be a little bit different , truly variable .

34:26

That's why it's so important you gather your own

34:28

data and you

34:31

look at that data as it compares to

34:33

what you eat , how you train

34:36

, the effort you're training and all that stuff

34:38

. So you have to use that

34:41

as a trend

34:43

, not as an exact value . Okay

34:45

, so we all have about four

34:47

grams of carbs in our bloodstream

34:49

, right , and so the

34:52

body has an amazing ability to maintain

34:54

that . You're been scientific studies that

34:57

show you can maintain three to four

35:00

grams of glucose in your bloodstream with

35:02

multiple days of starvation , right

35:04

, so it has to do with how your body responds

35:06

, right . So

35:11

I think it's going to be very interesting to see . And

35:13

I think also one thing is crucial

35:15

for us and one thing we

35:18

stress is the

35:20

energy source while

35:22

you're exercising is different , right

35:24

. So at low intensity

35:28

, your ratio of

35:30

fat versus carb burning is going to be higher

35:32

. Right , it should be . It should

35:34

be Right , it should be higher . Yeah , your

35:38

ratio , as your intensity or time goes up , it is going to switch more

35:40

toward carbs . It is never 100%

35:43

one versus the other , right , so

35:45

you can train that Right , and you can

35:47

speak to that . You can train your ability

35:50

to burn fats longer

35:52

, to be able to maintain that glucose

35:55

level longer , but

35:59

it is truly an effect where your

36:01

energy source is the most important thing .

36:03

Yeah , yeah , no , totally , I

36:06

mean it's . You know that's especially even doing metabolic testing

36:09

where we can see how you partition the fats and the

36:11

glucose . You have some people that go straight to glucose

36:13

very quickly and it has a lot to do . So not only

36:15

do it for sport , but really for

36:18

long term health . I mean , blood sugar

36:20

control has a lot to do not only with

36:22

diabetes but in the environmental

36:24

factors and the things that you do to your body . For long

36:27

term health , especially in today's world where

36:29

things are so carb dominant

36:31

and seeing those spikes going up and down is

36:34

not only not good and you could , you

36:36

can have skinny people

36:39

developing type two diabetes because you burn

36:41

out your insulin but

36:44

but just long term health is

36:46

is trying to keep those spikes down and have good

36:48

blood sugar control . And I think that's

36:50

probably my bigger motivation right now is just

36:53

general health as opposed to performance , and

36:55

then , as you start to , you know , get more

36:57

cardiovascular active , seeing

36:59

how my body is is adapting

37:01

and where , like , kind of my performance zone

37:03

might be . But but

37:06

yeah , we see a lot of people that you

37:08

know cause when I was younger

37:10

and dumber . Right , if you burn

37:12

the engine hot enough , you burn the oven hot enough , you can throw

37:14

anything in there , right ? And that's just not the case . And

37:18

as you get older it becomes more apparent . So

37:20

, like I think it's incredible

37:23

, I mean to have a device that is

37:25

showing me how my body is utilizing

37:27

and I've seen some trends and maybe we'll get into that

37:29

what you , from a practical standpoint , what

37:32

you picked up on , and seeing the

37:34

data kind of go up and then right back down

37:36

and seeing those spikes , made me realize I'm like , oh , I

37:38

actually had an effect on what I did and

37:40

I'm more mindful . And now that I see that there's

37:42

a , there's a , this invisible effect

37:44

, that not invisible anymore , that

37:47

I've made better decisions . Now you

37:49

know what's that mean . Do I wear all the time ? For

37:51

the rest , I would say that you know I would this

37:54

, this CGM that I'm wearing . I'm probably going

37:56

to wear it for maybe , I think , three months and

37:58

get myself in a good spot , and then

38:00

maybe once a month , every

38:02

six months or something like that , just to recalibrate

38:05

and keep myself accountable . I don't know

38:07

. And that's part of what you know , now that we sort of know

38:09

the science . And what do you do with

38:11

it , right , what do you do with it and what did you do with it and

38:13

do you ? Did you make any

38:15

changes ? Did you see any things that

38:17

that helped you ? Did you think

38:19

it was a waste of time , like where , where ?

38:21

No , I don't think it's a waste of time . I mean , I think the

38:24

biggest , the biggest concept

38:26

for up , I mean the biggest concept for

38:28

me was training

38:31

and racing , right . And so I mean

38:33

I'm truly interested in metabolic

38:36

efficiency or metabolic flexibility

38:38

, truly interested . If I'm going to

38:40

be an endurance

38:42

athlete , how long can

38:44

I , can I , how I'm

38:46

sorry how intense can

38:48

I keep my body from going

38:51

to my glucose stores ? Yeah , right . So

38:54

I think that we can test and tell you , yeah

38:57

, and to do a metabolic

38:59

testing event and where the glucose

39:01

monitor and see how it correlates

39:03

, yeah , right . Because

39:06

we basically know that that your , your

39:08

, your body's initial response to

39:10

exercise is your , is your , is your

39:12

, is your body's initial response to exercise . Glucose

39:14

level goes up , yeah . The reason for

39:16

that is your body's going to use

39:18

the muscle glycogen first

39:20

yeah , but it sends a signal

39:23

that you need more glucose

39:25

, yeah . So the liver breaks it down

39:27

and stick it in the bloodstream . So it was fascinating

39:29

to me to look at my workouts and say what's

39:33

going on . I'm starting to run or

39:35

ride and my glucose is going up

39:37

. But now we know the

39:39

body uses that muscle

39:41

glucose first . It tells

39:44

the liver to start releasing more glucose

39:46

, you have to have more in your system . So as long

39:48

as you know that , that's fine . But then immediately it goes up , it

39:51

comes back down .

39:52

Yeah .

39:52

Right . So there's a system there

39:54

where you use the body's muscle

39:57

glucose first , liver , you

39:59

know , liver glucose next . But if you can wait

40:02

and be more metabolic efficient

40:04

, you're going to be more efficient

40:06

athlete , yeah Right , and

40:09

so I think I think

40:11

that's the most interesting thing to me is how

40:13

we can use our metabolic efficiency testing

40:17

and correlate that to the 24 hour glucose

40:20

glucose monitor to tell us

40:22

what we're doing pre-race

40:24

to put glycogen in your muscle

40:26

cells during the race to

40:28

prevent that depletion of that

40:30

, and post-race to destroy that

40:32

glycogen in the muscle cells . To me was

40:35

the most important thing .

40:35

Yeah , and so the zone two that

40:38

a lot of people know and is very valuable

40:40

. We know that to usually be

40:43

where your max efficiency point is

40:45

and where you can burn the most amount of fats . But here's

40:48

the rub with that and doing the testing we have plenty

40:50

of people , and plenty of fit

40:53

people , who have that

40:55

max efficiency point before

40:57

zone two . They have it in their warmup because

40:59

they're not . When we say metabolic

41:01

efficiency , that means how well are you partitioning

41:04

your fats and your glucose ? As

41:06

you go lower intensity , you want to lean on the

41:08

fat stores , more and less on the glucose , and as

41:10

you go a little bit faster it's going to start

41:12

to kind of transition a little bit , but it's not going

41:14

to skyrocket to where it's

41:17

heavy on glucose . And the max

41:19

efficiency point is really where

41:21

those two cross over . Where is

41:23

it like a 50-50 ? And the further to

41:26

the right , as we like to think about it , further into your

41:28

aerobic zone , the better . And

41:30

so if a lot of times people have it

41:32

underneath their aerobic

41:34

zone and then that's not metabolic efficient , you're going straight

41:36

to sugars and sugars gets a bad rap

41:38

. You need to use sugars . It's a scarce resource

41:40

. Fat for all intents and purposes

41:43

. It's not endless , but it's endless for our purposes , for

41:45

what you have . So

41:47

it's a much more efficient way to carry

41:49

yourself through a long course because you're going to supplement

41:52

glucose , but it's a scarce resource . How

41:54

many grams can you tolerate per hour ? How many grams

41:56

are you losing per hour ? And

41:59

you can have a better race longer

42:01

. But here's a rub with it , right

42:03

, a lot of people know zone two . They train

42:06

zone two 25%

42:08

of your trainability . If you want to retrain

42:10

your metabolic efficiency , 25%

42:12

of its exercise . So knowing where your true

42:14

zone two is and training at zone two , 75%

42:18

. Now say that again . 75%

42:20

of that is your nutritional choices

42:22

. So you can exercise zone . I know zone

42:24

two , but if you're not doing the right nutritional choices

42:27

and you're spiking yourself

42:29

quite a bit , you can train at zone

42:31

two . In reality is you might

42:33

be one

42:35

of those efficiency people who have that

42:38

number lower . So 75%

42:40

of that is due nutrition . And if test , don't guess

42:43

, you can train the right way . But if you're

42:46

hitting your energy stores and you're

42:48

having a lot of , like , high sugar meals

42:51

, more so in your protein levels aren't high

42:53

enough to help slow

42:55

that , and we'll talk about some simple ways to help you

42:57

with the blood sugar . But I would just like to emphasize that nutrition

43:00

is three quarters of

43:02

being metabolic efficient . The exercise isn't

43:04

. So just that you say I train zone two . I

43:06

had a guy . We did a metabolic efficiency test

43:08

with him last week or the week

43:11

before no , it must have been the week before , because I was I'm

43:13

gonna back the before that and he came

43:15

in and he said all the right things on paper I

43:17

train zone two , I

43:21

do X , y and Z . And we put him up

43:24

and and he was really

43:26

really , really bad and we were like

43:28

, dude , you might be doing all the exercise stuff

43:30

, what's your nutrition ? And diving into that

43:32

nutrition , he was good for nutrition like

43:34

a week before his event , but

43:36

beyond that he sort of didn't tighten up and it's like that's

43:38

not how it sort of works , I know

43:40

you . And then he went back into the explanation

43:43

of what he's doing and why it should be working . I'm like dude

43:46

, I get what you're trying to say , but I'm gonna

43:48

. I'm a data guy , here's your data

43:50

. So like that's crazy important

43:52

the nutrition part . And for me

43:54

the CGM helps me

43:56

make better decisions . So

43:59

that way , the exercise that I do

44:01

and put myself

44:03

through . Is that effective ? But not enough people

44:05

know that the dietary choices you make

44:07

. I've got a trainer

44:10

in in clinic . He's fantastic

44:12

, he's our , he's our strength and

44:14

conditioning and exercise director and

44:16

he's like no training can out kick a

44:18

poor diet and I was like man , that's actually

44:21

kind of beautifully said he's like you

44:23

just can't out train that . He's like you . Maybe when you're

44:25

young you can get away with it , but that's going to catch up

44:27

with you and it's , it's so true .

44:29

So I think I think , with this continuous glucose

44:31

monitor , you have to understand the science

44:34

right how your body

44:36

uses glucose . Are

44:38

there other stores that can use better ? And

44:41

what that number means for

44:43

you . That's , I think , that's

44:45

that's all it tells you and and

44:47

I think for you and I that are very

44:49

data driven , I think it can be

44:51

fantastic Because you really

44:53

got to go in and look at

44:55

your . You know

44:58

, you have to look at your glucose monitor and say

45:00

, well , it nine

45:02

o'clock , eight this and 10

45:04

o'clock my blood sugar went to there , that , that

45:06

, that , therefore , that was

45:08

a bad . You know , that was a bad

45:10

response . Or my

45:13

glucose going into this two hour ride was this

45:15

and it quickly dropped off . Why ? Yeah

45:17

, right . So I think you have to look at the trends

45:19

and I think you're right . It can teach you to

45:22

eat . You know to eat , eat

45:24

better . But you have to look at this glucose

45:26

curve with a lot of other factors

45:28

. You have to look at your diet , your

45:31

sleep , your stress , the

45:33

meals , the timing of the meals

45:36

and actually the composition of the meals .

45:37

Yeah .

45:39

And and , and we know I mean some

45:41

of the things I looked at when I was wearing it was

45:43

I was adding MCT

45:45

to meals because

45:48

that's medium

45:50

chain fats right , because I saw

45:53

the , the addition of fats

45:55

, smooth my curve out in the morning

45:57

. So I , you know , eat open

45:59

on the morning . There was a eating oatmeal , there

46:01

was a glucose spike and a relatively pretty

46:03

good drop after and I found that just

46:06

simply adding MCT oil to

46:08

that process , adding fat

46:10

to that carb load , extended

46:13

that glucose curve .

46:14

What did , what did it spike to when you , when , before you

46:16

, did the MCT ? What a spike for you . What

46:18

did you consider a spike you remember ?

46:19

I can't remember . Yeah , I can't remember , but I mean

46:22

it was a curve . It was a curve I was looking

46:24

at , it was sharp . It was a sharp curve . And

46:26

so I would go to work and be like , why

46:28

am I so tired 10am ? Well , it's because

46:30

I was getting a glucose spike . I was

46:32

superman until 10 , and then from 10 , 11

46:35

, 30 , I was exhausted until lunch .

46:36

Yeah .

46:37

Then at lunch I would eat and then have the same same kind

46:39

of kind of spike .

46:40

And eating , quote on quote , healthy , like

46:42

it wasn't a bad . It wasn't like you ate like a , like

46:44

a donut for breakfast .

46:46

No , it wasn't a Twinkie , I mean , I thought

46:48

it was a healthy , but but just adding

46:50

MCT oil to that extended

46:52

that curve . And there's there's . There's

46:54

some other things you could do . Well , you know one there's some

46:56

people that are eating vinegar before , before

46:59

meals .

47:00

Yeah , vinegar seems to be like the answer

47:02

to everything .

47:03

Right . So there's been clear

47:05

scientific studies that if you add

47:07

vinegar before you eat , right

47:10

, then it smooths out that

47:12

curve . Yeah , If you add significant protein

47:14

to your meal before you eat , it

47:16

smooths out that curve . So I think you can use

47:19

this continuous glucose monitor to

47:21

change the way you eat to smooth that , smooth

47:23

that curve out .

47:25

Yeah , there's a recommendation we use quite

47:27

often . That makes

47:29

it really , really simple . But you

47:31

know I'll bring it up because of even what you say with the oatmeal

47:33

. But if you're going to start to make , you know , dietary

47:35

decisions and I'm a huge , I mean read

47:38

about metabolic efficiency training by Bob

47:40

Seabahar . I've done my metabolic training through

47:42

Bob Seabahar and

47:44

he's a brilliant guy . He's really kind of followed

47:47

this , this metabolic efficiency testing

47:49

that we do , as well as these crazy

47:51

practical at the same time , and

47:53

he'll talk about , you know , one of the four methods

47:56

that it will use the hand model of just trying to

47:58

protein to carb ratio . For

48:00

every gram of carb

48:02

, or for , for every one to two

48:05

grams of carb , you should have at least one gram

48:07

of protein , so one to one ratio

48:09

, a two to one ratio , and

48:12

that should help you stabilize your blood sugar . And remember

48:14

, you were talking about the oatmeal and I was like , oh man , sure you got

48:16

to add more protein . You're like , dude , I did

48:18

right , I did , and even though you did

48:20

, you still spiked up . I believe that's

48:22

why I was wondering how high it went , but it's

48:25

still spiked up . And then , by adding the MCT

48:27

, so on paper , you did the right things

48:29

and you wouldn't have known it , because there's no maybe

48:32

you've noticed that a 10 I crash and maybe

48:34

just thought my blood sugar got low . I need another meal

48:36

, as opposed to by having

48:38

the CGM . Even though you did the

48:40

things right on paper , everybody's

48:42

body's different . And then by test

48:44

don't guess right you were able to add

48:46

one thing in the MCT oil and

48:49

that helped flatten it out for you . So I think

48:51

that's the huge value in

48:53

having it . So you , you have a strategy going

48:55

in and that strategy is a great place

48:57

to start . But the data that you get helps

48:59

you make really , really good decisions .

49:01

So I think that's one of the key . I think

49:03

that's one of the key aspects to

49:05

having the CGM . You have to have

49:07

a purpose

49:09

to it . If you're looking to change

49:11

the way you eat to

49:13

smooth out your glucose curve , great

49:15

, that's your purpose . If you're looking

49:17

at your glucose value why you're

49:19

training , why you're training I don't think we

49:21

know what , what those important values

49:23

are . Yet I don't think we know

49:26

what the ultimate

49:29

. I don't know . I looked at it for for

49:31

eight weeks and I couldn't figure out what my

49:34

specific glucose level was for

49:36

optimum performance , yeah Right . So

49:38

I was looking at the curve and ups and downs in the curve

49:40

. I never figured out and

49:42

I need to be at 120

49:44

. Yeah , yeah , to be , to be , to be , to

49:46

be super competitive .

49:48

Yeah , but that's why I was curious . I was wondering

49:50

where you were . But but there are some things that are known

49:52

. Number one is the heart spikes , right

49:55

. And the other thing two are the extreme boundaries right . You don't

49:57

want to go below 70 , maybe 60 , and

49:59

you really don't want to be above 180

50:01

. I'm I can set my zones . I wanted to

50:03

stay between 70 and 140

50:05

. So now I want big spikes , but I also know I didn't want to be

50:07

in boundaries . I got a great example and

50:10

I just took a shortcut . I know we shouldn't , but I was my

50:12

girl's place soccer and one of the first

50:15

, maybe the second or third day I had

50:17

it on . They had a big

50:19

gap between playing . It was at the same place but there was

50:21

a few hours and you know there was

50:23

a Chick-fil-A like quick cart there

50:25

, so we got a Chick-fil-A sandwich

50:27

and I needed some caffeine

50:29

, so I got a Coke right , and we know that there's tons

50:31

of sugar and coke , so it's not it's . I already know that's

50:33

not a great decision , but it gave me a boost

50:36

and I got some fuel and I didn't eat fries

50:38

or anything like that .

50:40

We screamed for Coke at mile 18 . Oh yeah .

50:41

Coke , coke . That's great during exercise

50:43

, but apparently so

50:45

. now , reviewing

50:47

the graph , man , I spiked

50:50

up to like 170 , very , very quickly , and then

50:52

right back down With one Coke With one Coke and

50:54

it was , like you know , even though

50:56

that was a shortcut , it felt good because I'd been

50:58

yelling and cheering and coaching and directing . So

51:00

I needed my excuse . My reason

51:02

was because the , the carbonation , felt

51:05

good on my throat and it gave me a little bit of energy . But

51:08

reality was I wasn't aerobic , I was just out

51:10

moving around and had a negative effect

51:12

. So that made me realize that

51:14

like right , so now when I the

51:16

psychological benefit for me was

51:19

now when I see that it makes me cringe

51:21

because I know the effect it has on my blood sugar , instead

51:23

of look at it and sort of crave it going ooh , that

51:25

would be good . So my relationship with

51:28

high glycemic foods has changed

51:30

because you know , we , we talk as athletes

51:33

. Hey , view food as fuel

51:35

, right , you're fueling your body , getting we know that

51:37

and we know to eat healthy things . But reality

51:40

is sort of getting just stuff and you just sort of throw

51:42

it in , you get on with your day when you see the graph it

51:44

. For me personally and I don't know if anybody

51:46

else would feel like that it changed a little bit

51:48

more with the relationship that I had with food to

51:50

realize that like hey , what , what I didn't feel from before

51:52

, has a negative effect which not

51:55

only affects my metabolic efficiency as

51:57

as an athlete , but for long-term

51:59

health . Right , there's lots of studies to show that

52:01

, like the blood sugar and the high sugar , is

52:04

detrimental to our long-term health

52:06

. We talk about that hub all the time we're trained for it's eight

52:08

decade and beyond , and even though I

52:10

burned my engine hot right , I can't shove

52:12

everything in there . It's

52:15

got a cost . So that was really really

52:17

valuable for me . And

52:19

I've been smarter with my meals and now

52:21

that my training is down in off season , plus

52:23

sort of coming off an injury , my protein is much

52:26

, much higher Meaning . So I've

52:28

just got a lot more proteins in . Like I

52:30

purposely eat more protein

52:32

. I make steak , I eat

52:34

a lot more eggs and I keep

52:36

the extra steak or I will make some

52:39

even like bacon in the morning , but I'll make an omelet

52:41

with feta cheese and and

52:43

some sort of protein , whether that's chicken or

52:46

whether that's some leftover meat . So instead

52:48

of having like toast and oatmeal

52:50

and all those things , when my volume is not down , it

52:52

is now , it is now not . Even

52:55

my carbs are significantly lower

52:57

. Now , again , I'm not saying

52:59

go keto and I'm not saying go carnivore For

53:01

me , for right now in my in my training

53:03

, it matches my training because my training isn't

53:05

very high right now , and

53:07

then , as my training goes up , we'll test

53:10

on guests . I think the glucose monitor is going to help

53:12

me make good decisions . Do I know what

53:14

the optimal zone is ? I don't know what the optimal

53:16

. Maybe if I kept it on for a significant amount

53:18

of time I'll start to see trends . But

53:20

I do know the boundaries that I don't want to go

53:22

to and I do know that I don't want sharp curves

53:24

and I want to make better decisions and

53:26

for me , having the visual evidence

53:29

is a game changer . It's worth it

53:31

for that alone and

53:33

I think I need that for probably maybe two , three months

53:36

and then I think maybe , knowing me

53:38

and my squirrel brain , I'll

53:40

probably need it every six months to go hey

53:42

, dummy , stop taking the shortcuts . Right ? I

53:44

had a coach who , um , um

53:47

, I thought this is stuck with me for life

53:49

. He would start every practice and say you either

53:51

get better today or you get worse . Nobody

53:53

stays the same , so we don't stay the same

53:55

. So you would start every practice and be like what

53:57

are you going to do today ? You're not looking to throw

53:59

the Hail , mary . What are you going to do today

54:01

to make yourself a notch better ? And

54:03

that was very powerful , because a lot of times you go through

54:05

the motions and you just sort of like I check that box , I

54:08

run drills , I do run drills , I don't need to do run drills . Well , you're

54:10

either getting better or getting worse . You're either keeping the skill

54:12

that you got or you're slowly starting to

54:14

degenerate . So over time I know

54:16

I'm going to start to slip into um

54:19

, maybe not um . You know making

54:21

the greatest decisions and for me , I'm a data

54:23

geek . If you show me the data , I

54:25

will abide by it . If you tell me sort of like the

54:28

like philosophy and what

54:30

should happen , like , I'll kind of like be like , yeah , I'm

54:32

buying in a little bit , but but for me that makes a big

54:34

difference . So the CGM for me was Was

54:37

that big ? And I and then , if I'm not

54:39

getting paid by anybody , it's not , I had to pay for the

54:41

darn thing . But I did a lot of research

54:43

between what was available in the US and the

54:46

dexcom g7 . The g7 just came

54:48

out . It's a little bit smaller . The reason I got

54:50

it , and more than anything else was

54:52

. The graph was just really easy and simple

54:54

. You can log some meals in there . What

54:57

I don't think it has and I wish Super sapiens

54:59

was in is that Super sapiens seems to be really

55:01

integrated Into training

55:03

peaks and to have more of a performance

55:05

base as opposed to . This is for diabetics

55:08

, but

55:10

it fits my purposes really nicely and

55:12

there's Coupons . If you go to

55:15

their website , I think I got it for like half

55:17

off . So I want to say I paid 180 for

55:19

a month's supply . It's like 300

55:21

, some dollars still expensive , so it's expensive

55:23

, but for me , for where I am , it

55:26

was an investment in my health . Yeah , what I do it every

55:28

month for the next 12 months , no

55:30

, well , I do for the next 90 days to help me

55:32

make better decisions . Yeah , just so happens

55:34

to be around the holidays , so maybe too

55:36

bad . There wasn't an off switch for Thanksgiving , yeah , but

55:39

but that's it's . It's been

55:41

really really great , man , it's been really great .

55:44

Nothing . As long as you have a purpose

55:46

and what you're , what you're looking at , I think that's

55:48

good . Yeah , I think that

55:50

endurance and endurance athletes tend

55:54

to jump on

55:56

. I

55:58

knew fads

56:01

, friends and fads and I

56:03

jumped on me . I was , I was doing it back

56:05

in the back back a year ago . I

56:07

jumped on it because I was interested in it and as long as

56:09

you understand what your purpose is , yeah

56:11

, I think it's fine . Yeah , but I think we

56:13

get Caught up in data . Yeah

56:16

, and I do . I do not think that

56:18

the CGM monitor is

56:20

the same as a power meter . I

56:22

do not think the CGM monitor

56:25

the same as a heart rate guy . Yeah , I'd

56:27

see zero , you know

56:29

zero interested me racing with

56:31

it . Yeah , right , cuz , cuz the delay .

56:33

I do see , and you've raced with it . You've seen the data

56:35

from the race , right .

56:37

And I do seem to be interested in wearing it . We're

56:39

wearing it during a race and a

56:41

week leading up to a race and looking

56:43

at my glucose control before and

56:46

looking at it after , thinking

56:48

, shoot , you really fell

56:50

it For four hours , right

56:53

yeah so that's a you know good question for you that

56:55

I .

56:56

So when you wore you got the data after

56:58

cone . It did that upload . So if you

57:00

look at that , does that have any ? So we go

57:02

in on the bike and say , hey , I want 70

57:04

grams of Carb

57:07

, right that's . And then when I get on the run , maybe I

57:09

want 40 grams of carbs . So

57:11

we know from performance and from feel

57:13

. Can you see that with a CGM ? Can you

57:15

see any like , can you see fluctuation During

57:18

it , to make a better decision ? To say , hey , maybe

57:20

that was too many grams . I , I , I

57:22

went too high . Or hey , you know

57:25

what ? That was a little bit too . I crashed down

57:27

. Did you see a difference with you have

57:29

?

57:29

to look at it . Yeah right , so you hate me and

57:31

I'm saying what did you see from ? Well

57:34

, it only records eight hours of data

57:36

, and I was out there a lot longer in eight hours

57:38

. I mean , I was out there for like eight

57:40

days . Yeah , I'm

57:42

surface of the sun . I got the , I

57:44

got . I got my swim diet . So

57:47

swim dad and my bike , that was . I felt good during that .

57:49

They're in those times and your numbers were stable .

57:51

I know we're stable , and but I

57:54

mean I would have won . I would have loved to see

57:56

my run data because I felt apart

57:58

. Yeah , so I . But that's

58:01

, that's one of the problems with the CGM if

58:04

you're not carrying your phone , it's not , it's

58:06

not downloading in real-time basis

58:08

and because the data is

58:10

so big it can only store eight

58:12

hours . Yeah , right , so

58:15

if you leave your hotel and you've left

58:17

your phone , you sit at

58:19

the start for an hour . You got about

58:21

seven hours of racing , yeah , and as

58:23

long as you get back to your phone , you can download that seven

58:25

hours , but you've lost that

58:27

last bit of data , yeah , right

58:29

. So If I was a

58:32

sub eight hour guy I could probably get Well

58:35

, yeah , one full race , but not so . Yeah , I think

58:37

we would know we missed that .

58:39

Yeah , but you saw some cool stuff with the you can

58:41

. You saw some cool stuff with different gels . Your body reacted

58:43

differently with different gels .

58:45

Now that was the biggest interest coming back from from Kona

58:47

, because I I was convinced Some

58:50

gels were different and I

58:52

was how I was trying to see if you can

58:54

was it was what they said and

58:57

you can't was exactly what they said . Yeah . So

58:59

for me , I know there's a 15 minute

59:01

delay , but for me , you know you , you can

59:03

in a Steady-state , upper

59:06

, you know , upper steady state run

59:08

Lasted about 70

59:10

to 80 minutes and I saw a drop Right

59:12

and the in the you can can gel

59:15

I was using it lasted about 30

59:17

minutes and there was a drop . Yeah , well , the

59:19

other gels there was like a 15

59:22

minute and there was a bigger spike . Yeah . So for

59:24

me , in my , my body , I

59:27

saw the you , you cannot pay for , you can

59:29

they all sponsor anything . But I saw

59:31

you can Gave

59:34

me a more steady-state glucose control . The

59:37

graph that I had on on my

59:39

super sapien , you know , you know monitors

59:41

, exactly the same as they showed you . Yes you

59:43

know , for two scoops of you can , half

59:46

hour before your exercise , that there was probably

59:49

90 minute relatively

59:51

steady-state .

59:51

Yeah , you know be interesting , especially the one that

59:53

gave you a little bit more spike . Is that a better gel for an Olympic

59:56

as opposed to the you can

59:58

, then you can grace for iron man . Maybe that other

1:00:00

gels great for a half iron man . The intensity is different

1:00:02

, exactly right .

1:00:03

So the , the sugar

1:00:05

needs are different and the effect

1:00:08

of a Caffeinated gel , yeah

1:00:10

, was different than really non-caffeinated

1:00:12

gel . Huh , because caffeine

1:00:15

, the caffeine effect is

1:00:17

it spikes your , stimulates your glucose . Yeah

1:00:20

, the caffeine effect . If you have a , if you

1:00:22

have a larger glucose spike , you're

1:00:24

gonna have a faster drop , yeah , so if

1:00:27

you're using caffeinated gels when you raise or

1:00:29

train , you probably got to use more often

1:00:31

. Yeah , right

1:00:33

, cuz you're gonna get much bigger spikes

1:00:36

and valleys .

1:00:37

Yeah , and you're willing . You got to be careful with how many gram

1:00:39

, what , how many milligrams of caffeine you're using . I mean

1:00:41

caffeine . Caffeine is a performance enhancer

1:00:43

up to a certain point , and then it becomes right

1:00:45

. You counter no , that's

1:00:48

, it's man , it's . It's pretty neat , I don't

1:00:50

know that yeah . It's really really neat

1:00:52

to use it and see how it's how it's worked

1:00:54

and some other interesting research .

1:00:56

It kind of goes back to our last , last

1:00:58

podcast . Is women

1:01:00

with chronic fatigue syndrome ? That

1:01:03

that , that that that we know is from

1:01:05

Poor

1:01:08

or lack of adequate calories

1:01:10

, right . Will this help them

1:01:12

be better ? Yeah , right . So

1:01:14

there's some newer . We

1:01:17

know the little literature is just is

1:01:19

just very sparse with women

1:01:22

data , right . So there's , there's

1:01:24

some interest in some researchers . You know

1:01:26

, looking at these runners , these female

1:01:28

, female runners that I have a crush on , are

1:01:32

it is there . Is

1:01:35

there chronic fatigue syndrome from

1:01:37

just Lack

1:01:39

of nutrition ? That should show up

1:01:41

in this continuous glucose monitor .

1:01:43

Yeah right .

1:01:44

So there's some interesting stuff there , and it's

1:01:46

also interesting to me that the , the

1:01:49

Biking

1:01:52

board , or the what's

1:01:54

the board that does a bike

1:01:56

racing , you see I

1:01:58

, you see I has banned it . Yeah

1:02:00

, they have , they

1:02:03

have banned it and they're like the dirtiest

1:02:05

sport in the world . And now they've bought , they've banned glucose

1:02:08

monitor goes monitor so and and

1:02:10

the argument which is just I thought

1:02:12

was ridiculous , was they didn't

1:02:14

want people looking at their monitors

1:02:16

while they were racing , because it was unsafe

1:02:19

. Oh yeah , how many PsyCyclists

1:02:21

are , you see , are looking at their monitor , at

1:02:23

their ?

1:02:24

at their power me the whole time . Look , you said I mean

1:02:26

it's not a power me . That's what you're looking real-time . Dad , is your

1:02:28

heart rate right ? Yeah , that's what you're looking at .

1:02:30

Yeah , so so they say it's just one more thing

1:02:32

distractor rise more because because

1:02:34

it's just was one female over a writer who

1:02:36

won some big race recently , she got

1:02:38

, she got dequeued , yeah cuz she was

1:02:40

wearing a glucose monitor .

1:02:41

They'd be a better argument there . It was like , hey , we're just trying

1:02:43

to get athletes to stop sticking stuff in their arms . I

1:02:45

like between an IV , between , like the

1:02:48

hematocrit . You know

1:02:50

no epo , no cgms , no , nothing

1:02:52

in arms . You may not be penetrated

1:02:54

by by a metal object right .

1:02:57

So so the minute . And then

1:02:59

this woman wrote a response to this , being

1:03:01

dequeued . That was , look , I'm interested

1:03:04

in , in chronic fatigue , since in drum

1:03:06

and female athletes , yeah , what

1:03:09

one of the comments you made was I mean

1:03:11

, I should not go in hypo glycemic because

1:03:13

that's gonna lead to crashes , yeah , so

1:03:15

so . But you know , but

1:03:17

UCI has has banned the

1:03:19

use of cgm , which

1:03:22

I think is a statement which is

1:03:25

ridiculous .

1:03:25

Yeah , that's silly . So I would

1:03:27

I mean , I know about you , I if , if , if

1:03:30

you're interested , I think it's well worth doing it . I

1:03:32

mean , get , get , get

1:03:34

a monoran and just gather Data

1:03:37

and watch the graph and I think , if you keep

1:03:39

it really simple , try to minimize the spikes

1:03:41

. I think one of the best ways to do that is take your

1:03:43

sugar levels down and increase your protein right

1:03:45

, fat naturally usually

1:03:48

come up and you

1:03:50

puritization of nutrition , which

1:03:52

is , you know , your , your nutrition needs to

1:03:54

match the training . So there's sort of not one

1:03:56

of those like one size fits all approaches . How's

1:04:00

your body respond ? How do you keep the the

1:04:02

spikes from like going way up

1:04:04

and then crashing way down ? How do you keep it pretty level

1:04:06

? You know the standard

1:04:09

is there of like 70 to 160

1:04:13

and and I would say I would shop for an even

1:04:15

narrower Profile

1:04:18

, but those extremes are there and those are people with

1:04:20

diabetes , right ? So I mean there's , there's life-threatening

1:04:22

things that can happen from blood sugar control . So

1:04:24

you're , you're looking to to flatten that

1:04:26

and just test , don't guess

1:04:28

and maybe you'd have the same thing that I did , which is I

1:04:30

helped my relationship with what , what I was

1:04:32

eating , and Not to

1:04:34

say I do it perfect all the time . I know it

1:04:37

and I'll still do it like I'll

1:04:39

eat . It was Halloween , I would eat some

1:04:41

candy and be like , oh , can't wait to see this bike . But

1:04:43

instead of eating like endless amounts of bite

1:04:45

size which seemed like they were just small , you

1:04:48

know , I'd be a little bit more mindful of what that

1:04:50

was . So it ? So it helped me and I think

1:04:52

it's got its place . I think there's

1:04:54

a lot to be figured out of

1:04:56

exactly what it does , but you've you've picked

1:04:59

up on some amazing things . I mean I , between

1:05:02

the MC MCT oil , between

1:05:04

the different gels and yeah , I

1:05:06

thought that was pretty cool .

1:05:07

Yeah , and you know and now

1:05:09

I'll say this enough , I've been a physician for a long time

1:05:12

, but this is what's

1:05:14

wrong with medicine , meaning

1:05:16

that Old-style

1:05:19

medicine is all about

1:05:21

treating a problem after it happens . Yeah

1:05:23

, so An

1:05:25

old style doc is gonna say , okay , you

1:05:28

have type two diabetes , we're

1:05:30

now gonna put a monitor on you . You're

1:05:33

gonna pay for the monitor , you're gonna pay for all this medication

1:05:36

. We're gonna try to change your life , right

1:05:38

. In my mind , the

1:05:41

medicine 2.0

1:05:43

, or improved medicine , would be we're

1:05:46

all about prevention , right ? So

1:05:48

every single person , you get a

1:05:50

colonoscopy , you get a dermatology

1:05:53

check and you get to wear a CGM

1:05:55

monitor three months and

1:05:57

we're gonna follow your sugar and if there's

1:05:59

a tendency for you to get into that

1:06:01

pre-diabetic range

1:06:03

, we're gonna try to make some life choices

1:06:05

. Right . So why

1:06:08

not use a CGM monitor

1:06:10

to prevent the millions

1:06:12

of people that go to type two diabetes before

1:06:15

they ever you know , ever get there

1:06:17

? So , yes , we're using performance . What

1:06:20

we before , during , after is helping performance

1:06:23

. But in my mind , medicine

1:06:25

2.0 should be about prevention

1:06:28

, and prevention can be . Rob

1:06:30

Green , you wear a monitor for three months out

1:06:32

of the year and you see , you know , your blood

1:06:35

sugars tend to , you know , to the 130

1:06:37

. If they're the crap you

1:06:39

put in your mouth ain't great right

1:06:41

. So I would

1:06:44

hope , I would think the insurance companies

1:06:46

would think that was important , right

1:06:48

, because they're paying millions of dollars for the monitors

1:06:50

, for the medication . But that's the way

1:06:52

medicine has been and

1:06:55

the lobbyists from the you

1:06:58

know , the pharmacology companies , it's just

1:07:00

, it's wrong . But if we

1:07:02

went toward prevention , where , if you

1:07:05

know , eight weeks out of the year you wore a CGM and

1:07:08

you said , yeah , I'm on track , or , oh

1:07:10

God , my blood sugar's running high , I'm

1:07:12

pre-diabetic you may prevent a

1:07:14

lifetime of misery .

1:07:15

Yeah , totally . I mean that's that ounce

1:07:17

of prevention , pound of cure . I mean it's so valuable

1:07:20

and I mean that's why the insurance isn't covering

1:07:22

it . I mean that's why I have to pay for it , because it , because I don't

1:07:24

have a problem , so they're not doing anything proactive . But

1:07:27

that costs prevent people from doing it , Dude

1:07:30

it's way less expensive than managing it

1:07:32

afterwards . Like you said , and

1:07:34

I think it's . You know it's changing because docs

1:07:36

have the same philosophy that you got , because ultimately

1:07:39

you're trying to help people and

1:07:42

the consumer's getting smarter . I think that's

1:07:44

huge . I mean , as a consumer , the average everyday

1:07:46

person is understanding and the

1:07:48

market is growing

1:07:50

because people want to be proactive in their health . They're

1:07:52

doing proactive imaging , they're doing proactive tests

1:07:54

and , thankfully , modern

1:07:57

medicines trying to move in that direction . Yeah , with

1:07:59

colonoscopies , I mean , colon cancer has

1:08:02

come down significantly because they're getting it as polyps

1:08:04

in colonoscopies . So , you

1:08:06

know , and things like this , hopefully , yeah , hopefully , things

1:08:09

are changing , but the consumer's smarter

1:08:11

and there's options . Like

1:08:13

I said , that's a . I mean it's a big cost . One 80

1:08:15

a month is not nothing light , but to

1:08:17

me it's an investment in

1:08:20

my health . So I'd rather do that

1:08:22

than I would buy something that's shiny , right

1:08:24

, I'd rather have something that makes a difference . So

1:08:26

, yeah , hopefully modern medicine

1:08:28

continues to do that . But you as a consumer

1:08:31

, can educate yourself

1:08:33

and you can do things like this to set yourself

1:08:35

up for , you know , a long

1:08:37

, high quality of life . As you said , it's not

1:08:39

, it's life span

1:08:42

, right . So it's how well and how

1:08:44

high quality of life you can have . Like , nobody wins

1:08:46

this game , right , we

1:08:49

all end in six

1:08:51

feet under , but at the end of the day , you can put up a hell of a fight

1:08:53

and you can live a high quality of life over a long period of time

1:08:55

. And it's the things that you do and blood sugar and the

1:08:57

evidence that is clear on that blood sugar has a

1:08:59

lot to do with your long term health One of the

1:09:02

most important things Truly .

1:09:06

Lessons from the Knuckleheads .

1:09:09

All right . So this week

1:09:11

, lesson from Knuckleheads . We're heading into winter

1:09:13

holiday time . A

1:09:16

lot of you are reflecting on your season and

1:09:18

it's a great time to learn from

1:09:20

how the season went and what

1:09:22

your goals are for next season . But

1:09:24

lessons from Knuckleheads don't

1:09:27

smash the winter right . So I

1:09:29

think a lot of people go into winter time and maybe

1:09:32

they're motivated to attack their weaknesses and

1:09:35

all the different things they can do to be better next year . In

1:09:38

reality , it's like just don't , don't smash

1:09:40

. I mean it's a time to rest , recover . It's

1:09:43

a time to diversify your

1:09:45

movements , it's a time to

1:09:47

add some strength in . You know , maybe

1:09:49

work on some mobility and if you're going to attack anything

1:09:51

, absolutely I mean you want to be consistent

1:09:54

through the winter and I

1:09:56

would say focus on skills , right Skills

1:09:58

, whether that's technique in the water , drills

1:10:00

on the run , biking

1:10:02

and different . Maybe that's even like

1:10:04

equipment and fit and

1:10:07

do a bike , fit and get kind of acclimated to

1:10:09

it . So absolutely , you know

1:10:11

, winter is an important time to train . But like

1:10:13

there are just so many people that just attack , I

1:10:15

have athletes that think that like I've

1:10:17

got to go in and I've got to be great

1:10:19

at , you know , biking , I've got to be great

1:10:22

at running . Now's the time for me to

1:10:24

get better . And you're

1:10:26

like that's , I get it . I get why it sounds good on paper

1:10:28

, but reality is like it's

1:10:31

not going to lead to . Where do you want back

1:10:33

off ? Allow your body to heal

1:10:35

, a lot of your mind to heal . Be

1:10:37

consistent , keep your fitness , make it enjoyable

1:10:40

. Work on skills , get

1:10:42

better , get more efficient , but

1:10:44

don't train the house down . It's not a linear

1:10:47

line of progression . More people underperform

1:10:50

year after year after year because their winter

1:10:52

is just too intense . So

1:10:55

I think the lessons from Knuckleheads would

1:10:57

be just like stop smashing the winter

1:10:59

. You know what , do you think ?

1:11:01

I think that's exactly right . There is no linear

1:11:04

progression , like you said

1:11:06

, and you can be a March hero

1:11:08

or you can

1:11:10

be a race season . A

1:11:13

lot of people get hurt in the winter from doing stuff they shouldn't

1:11:15

. I think consistency

1:11:17

is the most important thing . You can't stop

1:11:19

training . I think letting a little

1:11:21

bit of fitness go from your pre I mean

1:11:24

from your race fitness is a good

1:11:26

thing . I think bike

1:11:28

fit , bike handling is key . Run

1:11:30

drills are key . Find something new

1:11:33

and disgusting , like rolling , you know give

1:11:35

that a try . Do

1:11:37

some swim technique stuff . Find

1:11:39

a master's group . Spend

1:11:41

time with your family .

1:11:43

Yeah , we'll have , I think maybe one more

1:11:45

near podcast we'll get into

1:11:47

maybe what an offseason looks like . And I

1:11:50

don't know about you , but I'm casting stones from Glass House

1:11:52

. I mean , I've done that in the wintertime Like

1:11:54

I thought I needed to attack something and even

1:11:56

though you may see some incremental growth and you don't want to get my

1:11:58

FTP up this winter , it

1:12:01

just doesn't work out in the long run . It

1:12:03

just really sort of doesn't . It's not to say that you

1:12:05

don't have some little mini blocks

1:12:07

and maybe have a boost in an FTP

1:12:09

for three , four weeks in the wintertime and then come back down

1:12:11

. And then there's some management and you

1:12:14

know we do that differently with different athletes , kind

1:12:16

of depending where they are , and have some mini goals . But

1:12:19

the main theme of it is like heal

1:12:21

regenerate , stay super consistent

1:12:23

, don't over train , don't intermittent

1:12:26

train , work on skills , get

1:12:28

more efficient , right and

1:12:31

fatigue back off . And fatigue back off Get

1:12:33

tired .

1:12:34

Now's not the time to dig yourself a deep hole

1:12:36

.

1:12:36

Yeah , and people are afraid to let go of that fitness

1:12:39

right , because they get done with their last race and maybe

1:12:41

they take a week off . But they're like , oh , I don't want to lose it all . I just

1:12:43

I've worked so hard Next year I got to

1:12:45

be 10% better in this , so I can't let it go . And

1:12:47

, man , one of the best things you can do

1:12:49

is recover for like

1:12:51

four weeks . Man , take a month and just have

1:12:54

minimal structure , do the things that you gravitate

1:12:56

to , that you want to never , never

1:12:58

, make anything . Feel like it's hard and

1:13:01

you'd be shocked . You'd be shocked

1:13:03

if you come out and you enter into March and

1:13:05

April and you know you might , you're , you're

1:13:07

, you're , you're , you're . Your mind may play a little bit

1:13:09

of tricks on you . You thought you maybe should have done more and

1:13:12

then all of a sudden you see this growth beyond where

1:13:14

you were Now . It took me a

1:13:16

few years of of , you know , doing it wrong

1:13:18

to learn to do it right , because you read the science of it all . But

1:13:21

there's still that brain that's sort of like , well

1:13:23

, I got to , I got to get better . And when you take

1:13:25

a step back and you allow your body to heal

1:13:27

and you diversify , that you see gains , that what

1:13:29

otherwise weren't available to

1:13:31

you by overdoing it . So I'd say this

1:13:34

winter right , stop thinking about what

1:13:36

more you can do and start thinking about

1:13:38

what the less you can do . Be

1:13:40

super consistent . Take the volume down , take the intensity down . You

1:13:43

do a road challenge , mountain

1:13:46

bike ski , cross country ski

1:13:48

. You know , make

1:13:50

it fun and connect with groups , man , and

1:13:52

get out and have fun , but don't

1:13:54

smash winter All

1:13:59

right .

1:14:02

So really good discussion on Kenyans glucose monitoring

1:14:04

psych to see kind of the data that Rob

1:14:07

comes through with us and we'll get a follow

1:14:09

up from him in a couple of months , see what he thinks . I

1:14:12

think the keys that I see are

1:14:15

one you have to understand the accuracy

1:14:17

of the device . You have to understand the delay

1:14:20

of what the reading is telling you . I

1:14:22

think you have to go into it with purpose . What

1:14:25

are you trying to see from the data

1:14:27

? What changes are you trying to make ? Is

1:14:30

that a diabetic treatment ? Is

1:14:33

that change of lifestyle or is that performance

1:14:35

? But just have a purpose

1:14:38

. I think you have to look at trends

1:14:40

, your glucose trends

1:14:42

, not not not

1:14:45

just

1:14:47

just time values

1:14:50

, but true trends . And

1:14:52

then I think the final thing is you have

1:14:54

to make changes . You have to make changes in

1:14:56

aspects of your life that allow

1:14:59

you to have the best glucose

1:15:01

level sleep , stress , meals

1:15:04

, timing of meals and

1:15:07

the composition of those

1:15:09

meals . That's my takeaway .

1:15:11

Yeah , totally . I think it's really worthwhile

1:15:14

having it on . I would encourage you , if you're thinking

1:15:16

about it , do it and , like Dr Haring said , have a purpose

1:15:18

with it . And if you want to keep it really

1:15:20

simple , you want to minimize the spikes , right

1:15:22

, you want to be in a pretty narrow range . Your

1:15:25

bullet sugar has to go up and it has to come back down , but you want to

1:15:27

see it slowly . You don't want to see these really sharp

1:15:29

spikes . You can Google enough

1:15:31

graphs to sort of see what that looks like , and it's

1:15:34

helped me make good decisions . It really

1:15:36

has . I'm glad I've done it . I'm going to do it probably

1:15:39

for another month or two . And

1:15:42

, yeah , keep it simple . Try to minimize the spikes . Try

1:15:45

to get your protein levels up . Try to keep your sugars

1:15:47

down . You can't be perfect all the time . Try

1:15:49

to be reasonable with it . Right , extremes

1:15:51

are not the goal

1:15:53

here , but data is

1:15:56

, and that can help guide you and it can couple what

1:15:58

you think is going on with what is actually going

1:16:00

on . And so that part is important

1:16:03

to me . And don't forget to be

1:16:06

in tune with what you feel . Right , pay attention to what

1:16:08

you feel , pay attention . Dr

1:16:10

Haring talks about the delay in it , but

1:16:12

you're really looking to see what it does for you for the two

1:16:14

hours after the meal anyway as well . Like

1:16:16

you know , what happens three hours later has

1:16:19

an effect of might have been what you did with the

1:16:21

meal from before . So , if

1:16:24

you keep it simple , try to increase your protein ratio . Try

1:16:27

to keep it a one to one to two to one when we look

1:16:29

at grams for each meal and

1:16:32

there's lots of different ways to do that Find

1:16:34

what works well for you , stick

1:16:37

with it and then , if you have a monitor , then maybe

1:16:39

you can make some refinements to it . I

1:16:41

think it's really really helpful . What I do it

1:16:43

all the time , probably not Honestly

1:16:45

, maybe if it was cost effective

1:16:48

, maybe I would , but I really think it was

1:16:50

worthwhile . So

1:16:52

that's great . So , yeah , see what you think

1:16:54

. Again , I use Dexcom G7

1:16:56

. You can do some research , see what's

1:16:58

good for you , but

1:17:00

I find it to be really really simple

1:17:03

, easy to put on the arm . That unit's

1:17:05

a little bit smaller and I

1:17:07

found it's great , awesome

1:17:09

, thanks . So nice blood

1:17:11

sugar man , lots of good stuff . And

1:17:13

that ends it for this week

1:17:15

. You got anything else ? Nope . Time

1:17:17

for a milkshake . Time for a milkshake and

1:17:19

after the milkshake , when you

1:17:21

get to a fork in the road , go uphill

1:17:23

.