0:00

You're listening to an Airwave

0:02

Media Podcast. The

0:30

world is filled with many questions such

0:32

as, did giants exist? What

0:40

is junk DNA? Does it mean that you're

0:42

trash? Do you ever wonder if aliens have

0:44

underwater bases in our oceans? And that's why

0:47

there are so many UFO sightings off the

0:49

coasts of islands all over the world. How

0:52

serious even is climate change and when

0:54

should we start building our rafts? Hello

0:56

everyone, you may recognize me as Gabby from

0:59

the History of Everything podcast. And

1:01

my name is Bruna and you don't recognize me

1:03

from anything yet. Together

1:05

we're two scientists who explore the answers

1:07

to these questions and many many more

1:09

in our new podcast, Mystery of Everything,

1:12

available everywhere you get your podcasts. Though

1:27

schoolchildren used to be taught that

1:29

Christopher Columbus had to convince the

1:31

Catholic monarchs of Spain that the

1:33

earth is actually round and not

1:35

flat and thus could be circumnavigated

1:37

by a westward voyage across the

1:39

Atlantic, we know this to be

1:41

a myth. In fact,

1:44

it had been known since antiquity

1:46

that the earth is spherical and

1:48

that it was theoretically possible to

1:50

sail west to reach the east.

1:52

However, Columbus did indeed have his

1:55

work cut out for him to

1:57

convince the monarchs to finance his

1:59

voyage. voyages, for it remained to

2:01

be understood how long such a

2:03

voyage might take, and whether or

2:05

not there may be some islands

2:07

or continents blocking his path. Certainly

2:11

there were legends of islands

2:13

out there, the phantom and

2:15

mythical islands of Antilia, High

2:17

Brazil, and St. Brendan's Isle.

2:20

Some suggest that Columbus had

2:22

actually gathered intelligence about the

2:24

lands beyond the seas before

2:26

pitching his voyages to European

2:28

monarchs. According to

2:31

Bartolome de las Casas, Columbus had

2:33

first-hand knowledge of these lands, having

2:35

sailed to the equally mythical northern

2:38

land of Ultimatuli in 1477, which

2:40

voyage some have

2:43

argued took him past Greenland to

2:46

somewhere on the North American coast,

2:48

near where the Norse had established

2:50

their Vinland colony. In

2:53

truth, the only record of this

2:55

supposed early voyage of Columbus's is

2:57

a marginal note by de las

2:59

Casas, which may have referred to

3:02

a trip to Greenland or Iceland

3:04

and may never have even occurred.

3:07

Further rumor had it that

3:09

Columbus learned of this route

3:11

to the Americas from a

3:13

Bristol sailor, and that the

3:15

English had established a trade

3:17

route to these new lands,

3:19

a claim that the Spanish

3:21

would not have liked to

3:23

acknowledge, and which historians also

3:25

refute. After Columbus's

3:28

contact with the quote-unquote new

3:30

world, Gonzalo Fernandez de Oviedo

3:32

would argue that actually he

3:35

hadn't really discovered anything that

3:37

wasn't already known. Oviedo's

3:39

account of Columbus's voyages begins with

3:42

the statement quote, some say that

3:44

these lands were first known many

3:46

centuries ago and that their situation

3:49

was written down and the exact

3:51

latitudes noted in which they lay,

3:53

but their geography and the sea

3:55

routes by which they were to

3:58

be reached were forgotten. He

4:01

then goes on to mention

4:03

a rumor that would conveniently

4:05

establish Spanish claim to the

4:07

New World, the story that

4:09

a Spanish Caravel had been

4:11

overwhelmed by winds and sent

4:13

off course, eventually landing in

4:15

the West Indies, where its

4:17

crew made contact with native

4:19

islanders. According to

4:22

this legend, only a handful of

4:24

the crew survived their arduous return

4:26

to Europe, and even these were

4:28

so sick that they passed away

4:30

shortly after their arrival at Portugal.

4:33

As the legend claims, Columbus

4:36

knew or met the surviving

4:38

pilot of this ill-fated voyage,

4:41

collected information from him at

4:43

his deathbed, and created a

4:45

map that he used to

4:47

find the Caribbean. De Oviedo

4:49

seems to mention the tale

4:51

only to qualify the claims

4:53

about Columbus' achievements, though

4:55

he remarks himself on the extreme

4:58

variation in the legend's details and

5:00

declares that it is probably a

5:02

fiction. Many are

5:04

the legends of pre-Columbian transoceanic

5:06

contact like this. Some, as

5:08

we have seen with the

5:10

stories of medieval Scandinavian contact

5:13

with the Americas, are

5:15

upheld by evidence that supports their

5:17

truth, even if they

5:19

are also confounded by hoaxes

5:22

and unreliable claims. But

5:24

others lack such confirmatory support

5:27

and should be questioned, as

5:30

De Oviedo himself explained, quote, It

5:32

is better to doubt what we

5:34

do not know than

5:36

to insist on facts that

5:38

are not proven, end quote. This

5:41

is historical blindness. I'm Nathaniel

5:44

Lloyd, and I need you on deck

5:46

with me again, as once more

5:48

we navigate the treacherous waters

5:51

of these theories in

5:53

Before Columbus, Part 1,

5:56

First Contact. Before

6:02

we start the episode I want to

6:04

thank my new patrons, Megan Peters, Kenneth

6:07

Temlin, and generous new

6:09

partner patron, Jocelyn Clawson.

6:12

Thanks so much to all of my

6:14

patrons. Patrons of the

6:16

show get access to a special

6:18

feed with ad-free and exclusive episodes.

6:21

I typically release a patron exclusive

6:23

during each off week making this

6:26

a weekly podcast for patrons. For

6:29

example, in addition to my newly

6:31

remastered early episodes on the Lost

6:33

Colony of Roanoke, I also released

6:35

patron exclusives after each part of

6:37

my Bermuda Triangle series. One

6:40

on the creepy legend of the

6:42

Ellen Austen's encounter with a ghost

6:44

ship, and another on legends about

6:47

other vanished towns and groups of

6:49

people similar to the Roanoke story.

6:52

Then after my episode on the

6:54

Kensington Runestone I released a minisode

6:56

on Another Hoax relating to Norse

6:58

contact with the Americas, the Vinland

7:01

Map. If you hear

7:03

the word minisode and think these

7:05

pieces are insubstantial, they're actually

7:07

fully produced and researched episodes, usually

7:10

around 10-15 minutes in length and

7:12

sometimes longer. Patron

7:14

feeds also get episodes early and

7:16

as mentioned their episodes aren't interrupted

7:19

by advertisements or Patreon pitches like

7:21

this. So visit

7:23

patreon.com/historicalblindness and support the show

7:26

or you can support what

7:28

I do with a one-time

7:31

gift donation at historicalblindness.com/donate or

7:33

at the PayPal link in

7:36

the show notes or on

7:38

Vinmo at historicalblindness. Now

7:42

on with the episode. Welcome

7:56

to historical blindness. Any

7:58

who are new to my content. content, and

8:00

unfamiliar with the topics I've covered

8:03

in the past, may find it

8:05

informative to learn here at the

8:07

outset that the topic of pre-Columbian

8:09

transoceanic contact theories has long fascinated

8:12

me. I've covered such

8:14

theories in passing or in part

8:16

in a variety of episodes, including

8:18

briefly in my episode on the

8:20

myth and mystery of Columbus. Obviously

8:24

just in the last episode

8:26

I explored Norse contact with

8:28

the Americas, which has been

8:30

confirmed archaeologically in Newfoundland while

8:33

disputing claims of further contact

8:35

inland as supported by the

8:37

Midwestern Runestones that evidence leads

8:39

us to dismiss as hoaxes.

8:42

Before that in a series I

8:44

highly recommend you check out between

8:47

parts one and two of this

8:49

series if you haven't heard it

8:51

already. I talk about the claims

8:53

of the Hebraic origins of Native

8:55

Americans in my series on the

8:57

Lost Tribes of Israel, a series

8:59

that led me to focus even

9:01

more on the hoax artifacts that

9:03

support such claims in an episode

9:05

on the archaeological frauds of pre-Columbian

9:07

transoceanic contact theories. Perhaps the

9:09

wildest of these theories that I've looked

9:12

at in an episode that I find

9:14

continues to get a lot of downloads

9:16

is the conspiracy

9:19

fantasy about a

9:21

lost globe-spanning empire

9:23

built by giants

9:25

called Tartaria, which

9:27

if you can believe it, claims

9:29

that a lot of buildings with

9:32

classical architecture right here in the

9:34

US are actually ancient remnants of

9:36

a super civilization and

9:38

this true history of the

9:40

world is being erased by

9:43

quote-unquote elites. Most

9:45

of these theories can be

9:47

confidently dismissed even with cursory

9:49

analysis of their lack of

9:51

evidence and especially in the

9:53

case of the Tartarian Empire

9:55

nonsense, their ludicrous and ignorant

9:57

assertions. However, even despite

10:00

the hoaxes of the Midwestern

10:02

Runestones, the fact that a

10:04

medieval Norse presence has been

10:06

proven beyond doubt in Newfoundland

10:08

goes to show that not

10:10

all of these theories can

10:12

be confidently dismissed. The

10:15

history of the Americas can

10:17

only be pieced together through

10:19

archaeological remains and other interdisciplinary

10:22

approaches as we will see

10:24

precisely because we lack a

10:27

robust historical record from American

10:29

antiquity. This is not

10:31

only because few indigenous cultures

10:34

developed their own writing systems

10:36

but also because among those

10:38

that did, the Spanish systematically

10:41

burned all their written records.

10:44

Burn them all Diego de Landa,

10:47

16th century bishop of Yucatan is

10:49

quoted as saying with the rationale

10:51

that quote they are the works

10:54

of the devil end quote as

10:57

the discovery at Lance Amedo's

10:59

proves though theories of

11:01

pre-columbian transatlantic contact can

11:03

be confirmed even in

11:05

the absence of extensive

11:08

indigenous historical records and

11:10

why could not some accidental

11:12

traffic have occurred between the continents

11:15

such as the Spanish caravel said to

11:17

have drifted to the new world when

11:19

the circular currents of the Atlantic are

11:22

known to carry ships off course and

11:24

across the ocean. We must

11:26

search for evidence of both

11:28

purposeful and accidental crossings to

11:30

determine what transoceanic contact may

11:32

have preceded Columbus and since

11:35

we know from the Newfoundland

11:37

find that Vinland which I

11:39

might point out was found

11:41

accidentally according to the saga

11:43

of the Greenlanders was no

11:45

myth then perhaps we should

11:47

look at the claims of

11:49

earlier crossings to determine first

11:51

contact as a tricky might

11:53

call it. Among

12:04

the most popular of first contact

12:06

theories out there is the argument

12:09

that the first seafaring people to

12:11

cross the Atlantic and encounter the

12:13

indigenous peoples of the Americas came

12:15

not from Europe at all but

12:18

rather from Africa. Indeed

12:21

rumors of an African crossing go

12:23

all the way back to Columbus'

12:25

time, again according to Bartolome de

12:27

las Casas who wrote that Columbus'

12:30

third voyage was actually undertaken to

12:32

investigate a rumor heard by King

12:34

John II of Portugal that

12:37

the West Africans from Guinea

12:39

were crossing the Atlantic in

12:41

canoes and had established trade

12:43

with the inhabitants of the

12:46

New World. On this

12:48

same voyage, de las Casas says

12:50

that Columbus took interest in the

12:53

claims of natives on the island

12:55

of Española or Hispaniola where today

12:57

can be found the countries of

13:00

Haiti and the Dominican Republic that

13:02

quote, a black people end quote

13:04

had come to them quote, from

13:07

the South and Southeast end quote.

13:10

Much has been made of this line

13:12

though it seems most likely that Columbus

13:14

was interested in the rumor not because

13:16

he believed West Africans had

13:19

visited the Caribbean but rather

13:21

because he had been told

13:23

by the Mayorkan explorer Yom

13:25

Farrer that quote, gold was

13:27

found most abundantly near the

13:29

equator where people had dark

13:32

skins and where the spin

13:34

of the earth caused it

13:36

to collect end quote. De

13:39

las Casas would not have

13:41

been the first to have

13:43

used the term quote unquote

13:45

black to describe the color

13:47

of darker skinned Native Americans

13:49

as a variety of other

13:51

Spanish explorers, historians and clergymen

13:54

have written about seeing black

13:56

skinned natives in the Americas.

13:59

Just how they differ. differentiated and

14:01

categorized the variety of skin

14:03

colors they observed in the

14:05

New World is unclear, and

14:07

indeed there may be an

14:10

error in translation as well

14:12

since the Spanish word for

14:14

quote-unquote black can also be

14:16

used simply to mean quote-unquote

14:19

dark. These uncertain

14:21

beginnings of the theory of African

14:23

contact with the Americas, however, could

14:26

expand when in the mid-19th

14:28

century a massive carved

14:30

stone head believed to have

14:33

originated from the Olmec culture,

14:35

an ancient precursor civilization to

14:37

other Mesoamerican cultures like the

14:40

Maya and Aztec peoples, was

14:43

unearthed in Mexico and deemed

14:45

by many to physically resemble

14:48

black African facial features.

14:51

This began more in-depth research

14:54

and the development of the

14:56

theory of African pre-Columbian Transoceanic

14:58

contact by researchers such as

15:01

Leo Weiner in the 1920s

15:04

with his work Africa and the Discovery

15:06

of America. Others

15:08

followed, but the most recognized

15:10

and influential of these theorists

15:13

today is Ivan Van

15:15

Sertima whose 1976 work

15:18

They Came Before Columbus, the

15:20

African Presence in Ancient America,

15:23

would take this otherwise

15:26

fringe academic hypothesis into

15:28

the mainstream where it

15:30

would be championed by

15:32

Afrocentric critics who criticize

15:35

Eurocentric academia for distorting

15:37

and marginalizing the historical

15:39

contributions of Africans to

15:42

the world. Thanks

15:49

for watching! of

16:00

institutional racism and bias that

16:03

permeates many disciplines, not only

16:05

that of history and archaeology.

16:08

Unfortunately valid and important

16:11

arguments such as these

16:13

are sometimes undermined by

16:16

the influence of hyper-diffusionist

16:18

claims. Hyper-diffusionism

16:21

is the pseudo-archaeological tendency to

16:24

draw parallels between vastly different

16:26

cultures and claim without the

16:28

necessary evidence to support the

16:31

theory that those cultures must

16:33

therefore have originated from some

16:35

common precursor culture. Whenever

16:38

someone says that the construction

16:41

of certain monuments in two

16:43

disparate cultures must mean that

16:46

there had been contact between

16:48

those cultures, denying the possibility

16:50

of parallel thinking and independent

16:53

development. There may

16:55

be a hyper-diffusionist argument being

16:57

deployed. One of

16:59

their most common arguments is

17:01

that pyramids in both Egypt

17:04

and the Americas show that

17:06

both cultures were related to

17:08

some progenitor civilization and often

17:10

they will resort to unfounded

17:12

claims about Atlantis or Lemuria.

17:15

Since one of Vensertima's

17:18

principal arguments is that

17:20

Mesoamerican steppe pyramids indicate

17:22

some ancient influence by

17:24

Egyptians, it seems

17:26

fair to criticize his work

17:29

as hyper-diffusionist. And

17:31

when we examine the broad

17:33

strokes of his theory further,

17:35

the hyper-diffusionist rhetoric becomes even

17:38

clearer. Vensertima essentially

17:40

claims that Egyptians, more

17:42

specifically black Egyptians or

17:44

the Nubians of southern

17:46

Egypt and northern Sudan,

17:48

whose dynasties preceded the

17:50

first Egyptian dynasty and

17:52

who conquered Egypt again

17:54

in the 8th century

17:56

BCE to establish the

17:58

25th Egyptian dynasty. Christianity,

18:00

crossed the Atlantic and

18:02

greatly influenced the Olmec,

18:05

the quote-unquote mother culture that

18:07

preceded the Maya in Mexico

18:10

and Guatemala, as evidenced by

18:12

not only the Olmec colossal

18:15

heads, but also the Mesoamerican

18:17

steppe pyramids. He

18:19

also claimed that Mandingo sailors from

18:21

Mali returned to the New World

18:23

in the 14th century,

18:26

led by their very emperor

18:28

Abu Bakrri II, and that

18:31

between the Egyptian and Malian

18:33

transfusions of knowledge, much of

18:36

the technological and cultural development

18:38

of indigenous New World civilizations

18:41

could be attributed to the

18:43

influence of African explorers. One

18:47

of the most cutting criticisms

18:49

of Vansertima's hypothesis is that

18:52

it negates the cultural identity

18:54

of indigenous peoples, instead attributing

18:56

their accomplishments to other cultures,

18:59

much like the myth of a

19:02

lost mound builder race, which I

19:04

examined at length in what I

19:06

consider a banner episode of the

19:08

podcast. Vansertima and

19:11

his proponents take great umbrage

19:13

with this characterization, of course,

19:15

pointing out passages in his

19:17

work in which he explicitly

19:20

rejects such views, asserting

19:22

that his research quote, in

19:24

no way presupposes the lack

19:26

of native originality, end quote.

19:29

However, one cannot read his

19:31

research without tallying the great

19:33

many aspects of Mesoamerican native

19:36

cultures that he attributes to

19:38

outside influence. Indeed, he

19:40

literally engages in a version of

19:43

the mound builder myth when he

19:45

asserts that the Olmec burial mounds

19:47

of La Venta are proof of

19:49

Egyptian influence. So

19:51

despite Vansertima's insistence that he

19:54

is not guilty of such

19:56

cultural erasure, as his staunchest

19:58

critics have As Jeff pointed

20:00

out, those who read his

20:03

work are, quote, left with

20:05

the impression that all or

20:07

most of the complex societies

20:09

in the Americas were created

20:11

or in some way influenced

20:14

by Africans and that Native

20:16

Americans were incapable of creating

20:18

any civilization or complex societies

20:20

of their own, end quote.

20:29

Van Sertima's critics do not only

20:31

take issue with the, quote, unquote,

20:33

impression his work gives though, they

20:36

also have serious concerns about

20:39

his work's scholarship for the

20:41

evidence he relies on is

20:44

in several ways unreliable. First

20:47

and foremost is the likeness of

20:49

the carved Olmec heads to what

20:51

Van Sertima and others consider to

20:54

be typical black African features. Van

20:57

Sertima's critics point out that

20:59

this evaluation relies on racial

21:02

stereotypes and that indeed the

21:04

features identified having to do

21:06

with lip and nose shape

21:09

are commonly found in a variety

21:11

of other peoples as well, including

21:14

indigenous Americans. Moreover, if

21:16

we were to read into the

21:18

features of these works of art,

21:20

we might be led alternatively to

21:23

believe that they depict an East

21:25

Asian figure due to the apparent

21:27

presence of an epicanthic fold on

21:29

the upper eyelid. Indeed

21:32

as we shall see a

21:34

perceived likeness to Asians has

21:36

also led to the Olmec

21:38

heads being cited as evidence

21:40

of ancient East Asian contact

21:42

with the Americas. And

21:44

as for his most popular, quote,

21:47

unquote, evidence about the presence of

21:49

pyramids in the Americas, there

21:51

are timeline problems with his

21:54

claims. Van Sertima argues

21:56

that Egyptians transmitted their practice

21:58

of pyramid building to Mesoamerican

22:00

cultures after 1200 BCE

22:04

when Egyptians of this period

22:06

had not built large-scale pyramids

22:08

for more than 500 years.

22:13

This issue with chronology troubles

22:15

much of his research as

22:17

he makes claims linking aspects

22:19

of distant Mesoamerican cultures thousands

22:21

of years apart and does

22:23

not attempt to or cannot

22:26

demonstrate how they were transmitted from

22:28

one place to another or why

22:30

they were not present in the

22:33

intervening centuries. Similarly,

22:35

he claims that Egyptians taught

22:37

the Olmec the technique of

22:39

mummification and that this was

22:42

passed to the Maya, citing

22:44

as evidence the sarcophagus of

22:46

the Mayan king Pakal. However,

22:49

Pakal was not mummified and

22:52

there are no such Olmec mummies

22:54

or sarcophagi and thus no evidence

22:56

of the transmission of such a

22:59

practice between the cultures. But

23:07

Vansertima's argument does not rest

23:10

solely on the colossal heads

23:12

and the pyramids. He

23:14

also marshals botanical and linguistic

23:16

evidence, yet errors litter his

23:18

work in these areas as

23:21

well. Though the reading

23:23

public who devour sensational historical revisionist

23:25

books like these, the Graham

23:28

Hancock readership, if you

23:30

will, are thoroughly over-awed,

23:32

experts are not and they have

23:35

the knowledge to recognize where such

23:37

authors are pulling one over on

23:39

readers. One

23:41

of Vansertima's principal botanical proofs is that

23:44

purple dye was used in the Americas

23:47

and that the process for

23:49

making it could only have

23:51

been brought here by Egyptians

23:53

who used purple ritually in

23:55

royal garments. However,

23:57

despite his assertions, it has

24:00

been proven that purple dyes

24:02

were created in an entirely

24:04

different way in the pre-Columbian

24:06

Americas and there is no

24:09

evidence that the Olmec attached

24:11

the same cultural meaning to

24:13

the color and as with

24:15

his claims about the practices

24:18

of pyramid building and mummification,

24:20

he provides no evidence that

24:22

such practices were transmitted between

24:25

Mesoamerican cultures over thousands of

24:27

years. The same flaw

24:29

can be found in his linguistic

24:31

arguments. As we have

24:34

seen in our examination of

24:36

many historical myths, they often

24:38

rely on armchair etymology and

24:40

this one is no exception.

24:43

Van Sertima makes a detailed

24:45

case that words in Maya

24:47

and Nahuatl were derived from

24:49

a variety of African languages

24:52

including Arabic, Manding, and Middle

24:54

Egyptian. However, while the

24:56

sources he cites to support

24:58

the claims are other diffusionists

25:01

sympathetic to his conclusions, more

25:03

qualified linguists have pointed out that

25:06

not only does Van Sertima fail

25:08

to provide evidence for the transmission

25:10

and changing forms of these words

25:13

through the centuries as would be

25:15

typical of a more credible etymological

25:17

argument, his Nahuatl words sometimes do

25:20

not even exist or they have

25:22

an entirely different meaning from what

25:24

he claims and even

25:27

his understanding of Egyptian words

25:29

is frequently in error. Issues

25:41

of unreliable source material are in

25:43

fact prevalent in Van Sertima's work.

25:46

He tends to rely as

25:48

his critics have shown on

25:51

outdated and since refuted sources.

25:53

He does not avail himself

25:55

of the more recent and

25:57

most in-depth scholarship or available

25:59

primary source material it seems

26:01

because it does not serve

26:04

his preconceptions and instead he

26:06

finds support in the work

26:08

of amateur writers from the

26:11

1920s like the thoroughly discredited

26:13

Leo Weiner and

26:15

he amplifies conspiracy claims as

26:17

well such as those surrounding

26:20

the Piree-Rees map. This

26:22

map created by an

26:24

Ottoman cartographer features an

26:26

unidentified coastline across the

26:28

Atlantic from Africa. The

26:31

map was compiled in 1513 and it

26:34

features a representation of the

26:36

West Indies derived from Christopher

26:38

Columbus's voyages but as

26:40

the land mass on the left of

26:42

the map extends downward and even across

26:44

the bottom of the page it

26:47

has been a lightning rod

26:49

for conspiracy speculation with some

26:52

suggesting it depicts the entire

26:54

coastline of South America and

26:56

Antarctica. To give

26:59

an idea of how this

27:01

artifact has been misused by

27:03

fantasists, Eric Von Daniken, the

27:05

ancient astronauts theorist, has suggested

27:07

that it must have been

27:10

drawn by aliens as

27:12

he imagines it contains data

27:14

only plausibly collected from aerial

27:17

observation. Although not going

27:19

so far as claiming extraterrestrials made

27:21

it, Charles Hapgood, a history lecturer

27:24

at New England colleges in the

27:27

1950s and 60s who is now

27:29

remembered for his pseudo-scientific claims and

27:31

out their takes on ancient history,

27:33

argued that the Piree-Rees map must

27:35

have been drawn not in the

27:37

1500s by its known

27:40

creator but rather in

27:42

the ice age by

27:44

some advanced civilization. Just

27:46

to reiterate, he thought it was

27:48

too accurate and contained too much

27:51

knowledge of the world for Piree-Rees

27:53

to have made it in the

27:55

16th century so it must have

27:57

been made thousands of years ago.

27:59

years earlier, when it's even less

28:01

likely that anyone had the knowledge?

28:04

Of course, Hapgood wasn't known for

28:06

his sound theories. He

28:09

was a catastrophist who promoted the

28:11

idea of a recent pole shift,

28:13

claiming that Antarctica had thus been

28:16

free of ice when the map

28:18

had been drawn. Today

28:21

it is recognized that the

28:23

imaginary coastline Hapgood claimed was

28:26

South America and Antarctica was

28:28

more likely Terra Australis, a

28:31

theoretical southern continent that had been

28:33

imagined and drawn into maps since

28:36

the time of Roman geographer Ptolemy,

28:38

who suspected there just had to

28:40

be land down there to balance

28:43

out the landmasses of the known

28:45

world in the northern hemisphere. Yet

28:48

when Vansertima went searching for support

28:50

for his notion about Egyptian contact

28:52

with the Americas, it

28:54

was this crackpot Hapgood and

28:57

his half-baked notions about pole

28:59

shifts and ancient advanced civilizations

29:01

that he chose to cite

29:04

as support. The

29:06

quality of Vansertima's sources

29:08

alone then casts doubt

29:10

on his reliability as

29:12

a scholarly researcher and

29:14

thus on the credibility

29:17

of his thesis. Now

29:22

for a brief intermission. In

29:30

the decades before the Civil War, slavery's

29:33

grip on America tightened,

29:35

but soon a diverse group

29:38

of abolitionists, both black and

29:40

white, began to construct

29:42

a clandestine path to freedom

29:44

for the enslaved. Expected

29:47

by Lindsey Graham, Wundery's podcast

29:49

American History Tellers takes you

29:51

to the events, times, and

29:54

people that shaped America and

29:56

Americans, our values, our

29:58

struggles and our dreams. In

30:00

the latest series, American history

30:03

tellers explores the Underground Railroad,

30:05

a covert network of secret

30:07

routes and safehouses operated by

30:10

men and women committed to

30:12

helping enslaved people escape bondage

30:14

in the South. Fugitive

30:17

slaves and anyone helping them faced

30:20

terrible violence and even death if

30:22

caught. But for those

30:24

brave enough to risk the journey,

30:26

the Underground Railroad offered a path

30:29

to the Northern States and Canada,

30:31

where their freedom was assured. Follow

30:34

American History Tellers on the Wondery

30:36

app or wherever you get your

30:39

podcasts. You can binge this season,

30:41

American History Tellers the Underground Railroad

30:43

early and ad free

30:46

right now on Wondery Plus.

30:52

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bigairusa.com/Columbus for details. Now

33:13

back to the show. The

33:25

New Year. Other hyper-diffusionist theories

33:27

trace the origin of Mesoamerican

33:30

cultures east of Africa coming

33:32

from Asia. Indeed,

33:34

as already mentioned, the Olmec

33:36

colossal heads have likewise been

33:39

used as support for this

33:41

theory which unlike Vansertima's more

33:44

developed argument seems to rest

33:46

almost entirely on resemblances. For

33:49

example, Betty Magers, an archeologist

33:51

whose work focused on South

33:54

America, published numerous articles on

33:56

her claims that the Olmec

33:58

culture was actually successfully begun

34:00

by visitors from Shang Dynasty

34:03

era China. Her

34:05

argument rests solely on her

34:07

perception of similarities in art,

34:10

including, laughably, the presence of

34:12

jade in both cultures and

34:14

the frequent depictions of cats

34:16

in art, as if it

34:19

is not perfectly natural for

34:21

two entirely distinct cultures to

34:23

both think jade was beautiful

34:26

and to both like cats.

34:29

She also cites the work

34:31

of Mike Zhu, who claimed

34:33

to have recognized glyphs on

34:36

Olmec artifacts as actual Chinese

34:38

characters, though Olmec

34:40

language experts view any

34:42

similarity as coincidental. There

34:45

was, long before the discovery of the

34:48

Olmec heads and the discovery of these

34:50

resemblances, some previous

34:52

theorizing about ancient Chinese contact

34:54

with the Americas, owing to

34:56

a certain tale from Chinese

34:59

mythology. According to

35:01

some versions of the tale, there was

35:03

a tree of life called Fusong, known

35:05

to grow far to the east of

35:08

China. Legend has

35:10

it that the founder of the

35:12

Qin Dynasty believed the myth to

35:14

be true and sent one of

35:16

his men, Zufu, on a voyage

35:19

to find Fusong, which

35:21

he believed to be an

35:23

island of immortals, tasking him

35:25

with bringing back an elixir

35:28

of immortality. Zufu

35:30

claimed, then, to have successfully

35:32

discovered Fusong, and a

35:34

few hundred years later, when a

35:37

missionary named Huishan returned from his

35:39

travels to tell his emperor tall

35:41

tales about the lands he had

35:44

visited, then the idea of Fusong

35:46

as a strange land was cemented.

35:49

This Fusong Isle of Immortals

35:51

was sometimes said to be

35:53

on the Asian Pacific coast

35:56

and was even at times

35:58

identified with Japan. But,

36:00

in some later maps, the term

36:02

was applied to North America. Though

36:05

this was not proof of ancient

36:08

Chinese travel to North America, and

36:11

likely both Zufu and

36:13

Huishin were fabulists telling

36:15

false tales to their

36:17

emperors, this led, in

36:20

the nineteenth century, to a

36:22

notion that the Chinese had

36:24

once, long ago, discovered California.

36:27

And in 1882, during a

36:29

gold rush in British Columbia

36:31

in western Canada, a string

36:33

of Chinese gold coins was

36:35

unearthed, said to have been

36:37

found 25 feet below the

36:39

surface in packed earth. Some

36:42

thought this proof of Chinese contact

36:45

with the Americas, and the

36:47

coins drew a great deal of attention.

36:50

They were, however, eventually

36:52

exposed as nineteenth century

36:54

charms cast by a

36:56

Buddhist temple. And one

36:58

can imagine that they might have

37:00

been found not 25 feet below

37:03

ground at all, that this might

37:05

have been the prank of a

37:07

gold miner trickster akin to the

37:09

members of E. Clampus Vitus, the

37:12

Clampers, who loved to claim that

37:14

their order could be traced all

37:16

the way back to Chinese explorers

37:18

who had discovered America. Listen

37:22

to my episode, The Unbelievable

37:24

History of the Ancient and

37:26

Honorable E. Clampus Vitus, for

37:29

more on that myth. Suffice

37:31

it to say, there is little to

37:33

any of these claims, just as there

37:36

is even less to the

37:38

more recent claim made by

37:40

former British submarine commander and

37:42

autodidact Gavin Menzies that Ming

37:45

Dynasty admiral Zheng He discovered

37:47

America and circumnavigated the globe

37:49

in 1421, a

37:53

claim for which in the two books

37:55

Menzies wrote on the topic, he failed

37:57

to provide a shred of

37:59

evidence. fields. Chinese

38:09

Transoceanic contact was not to be

38:11

the only such claim made by

38:13

Betty Magers and her fellow researchers,

38:15

though. They have also

38:17

argued strenuously for the idea that

38:20

the Japanese made it across the

38:22

Pacific and influenced native culture in

38:24

Ecuador. Years before

38:27

their evidence relied on subjective

38:29

resemblances in art, specifically in

38:31

the pottery of the Ecuadorian

38:34

Valdivia culture, which they reckoned

38:36

was a bit too similar

38:39

to pottery produced during the

38:41

contemporaneous Jomuan period in Japan.

38:44

Not seeing precedence for such

38:47

pottery before the Valdivia culture

38:49

was active between 4000 and

38:52

1500 BCE, but aware that similar

38:55

pottery could be traced back another

38:57

10,000 years in

38:59

Japan, they reasoned that the ancient

39:02

Japanese had brought it to the

39:04

Americas. To refute objections

39:06

that there was no evidence of

39:09

seaworthy conveyance at the time that

39:11

might have made such a voyage

39:13

possible, she raised evidence of Jomuan

39:16

period contact between mainland Japan and

39:18

Kozushima, a certain island about 35

39:21

miles offshore, as proof

39:23

of ancient Japanese navigational

39:26

capacity. However, 35 miles

39:29

of open ocean is a lot

39:31

easier to survive than a crossing

39:33

of the entire Pacific. Nevertheless,

39:36

arguments about the feasibility of

39:38

an accidental drift voyage have

39:41

encouraged the theory. In

39:44

1834, a Japanese merchant ship that

39:46

had lost its mast and its

39:48

rudder in a typhoon drifted 5000

39:51

miles to run aground in

39:54

Washington state. Three

39:56

of its sailors survived the disaster,

39:58

only to be taken captive i

40:00

a local Native American tribe. Around

40:03

eighteen fifty another Japanese ship

40:05

drifted to the Pacific Northwest

40:07

and it's survivors to made

40:09

contact with a local native

40:11

tribes. In. Eighty Nine.

40:13

d These incidents lead a

40:15

judge who just happened to

40:18

also be involved in violent

40:20

anti Chinese mob action to

40:22

further research and theorize on

40:24

the topic. He found numerous

40:26

incidents of Japanese drift voyages

40:28

in North America between the

40:31

seventies, the nineteenth centuries, all

40:33

carried by the Kuroshio currents,

40:35

and concluded that it was

40:37

not unreasonable to believe that

40:39

such drift voyages may have

40:42

been occurring. For far

40:44

longer. The. Fact of the

40:46

matter is though that even

40:48

rudderless and dis masted ships

40:50

from those more modern era

40:52

as would have been far

40:54

more sea worthy than the

40:56

crude ancient watercraft that betty

40:58

makers believed capable of surviving

41:00

such a vast distance. And.

41:02

Regardless of the feasibility of

41:04

even a single such accidental

41:07

voyage first surviving and second

41:09

making such an impact on

41:11

American cultures, the more pertinent

41:13

and harder to answer criticism

41:15

was that Fired Play pottery

41:17

was simply too rudimentary a

41:20

technology to claim it could

41:22

not have been independently invented.

41:24

And a stylistic elements that

41:27

she thought resembled some on

41:29

period pottery were too simple

41:31

and obvious to be considered

41:33

derivative. In other words, anyone could

41:35

have come up with the stuff. Finally,

41:39

Fired Play Pottery thousands of years

41:41

older than that left behind by

41:43

the Valdivia culture. has since

41:46

been discovered elsewhere associated with

41:48

other ancient american cultures they

41:50

fact that a basically explodes

41:52

or idea that no one

41:54

in the americas could have

41:56

come up with it on

41:58

their own It

42:05

is not East Asia alone that

42:08

has been proposed as one of

42:10

the cultural contributors to New World

42:12

civilizations. Additionally, there are

42:14

some theories regarding contact between

42:16

South Asia and specifically India

42:18

and the Americas. In

42:21

1879, a British army engineer noticed

42:23

in a stupa, which is a

42:25

place for meditation, a carving dating

42:28

to 200 BCE that

42:30

appeared to depict a custard

42:32

apple, a kind of fruit

42:34

that originates from the Andes

42:36

Mountains in South America and

42:38

wasn't introduced to India until

42:40

Vasco da Gama's arrival. Actually

42:43

it is very common for a

42:46

transoceanic contact theory to arise from

42:48

a work of art that

42:50

seems to feature a plant or animal

42:52

that shouldn't be known in that part

42:55

of the world. In

42:57

the 1920s, a Mayan relief

42:59

was discovered that seemed to

43:01

European eyes to depict an

43:03

Asian elephant, further supporting the

43:06

idea of Indian contact with

43:08

Mesoamerica. And in 1989,

43:10

a 12th century Indian sculpture was

43:13

seen to feature what looked like

43:15

an ear of maize, the quintessential

43:17

New World crop. In

43:20

fact though, as further research

43:22

revealed, what was originally seen

43:24

as maize was actually muktafala,

43:26

an imaginary fruit covered in

43:28

pearls known to be depicted

43:30

in Indian art. As

43:33

for the Mayan elephant, it turned

43:35

out to much more likely be

43:37

a taper, a rather common animal

43:39

that, like the elephant, has a

43:41

prehensile nose trunk. The

43:44

custard apple, it turned out, is

43:46

harder to explain away. We

43:48

might suggest that such artwork

43:50

was misconstrued that perhaps it

43:52

depicted Muktafala as well since,

43:55

like Maize, the custard apple

43:57

is a bumpy or noduled

43:59

fruit. However, Archaeologists recently

44:01

discovered the carbonized remains of

44:04

custard apple seeds at a

44:06

dig site in India and

44:09

dated them to fifteen twenty

44:11

be see. This. Seems

44:13

to be hard scientific evidence

44:15

of the custard apples presence

44:17

in Ancient India is not

44:19

proof of ancient Indian contact

44:22

with the Americas. If

44:24

such evidence of transoceanic transmission

44:26

of fruit were found in

44:28

the New World, it might

44:30

be argued that a drift

44:32

voyage resulting in a shipwreck

44:34

might have carried the fruit

44:36

which may have been found

44:38

and then proliferated as an

44:40

invasive species. But the likelihood

44:42

of currents carrying a drifting

44:44

vessel from the Americas to

44:46

India seems mirror zero. With.

44:48

Absolutely no further evidence of

44:50

trans contact between India and

44:53

the Americas beyond the presence

44:55

of the custard apple, Though

44:57

Then, instead of leaping to

44:59

the conclusion of ancient transoceanic

45:01

contact, we might question whether

45:03

the fruit could have been

45:05

transmitted by some other means

45:07

such as by migrating birds.

45:10

Or question whether the same

45:12

kind of plant might have

45:15

evolved in different regions independently.

45:17

As a recent study in

45:19

nature, biology and evolution has

45:22

actually observed in the form

45:24

of similar leaves evolving independently.

45:27

Or. Simply question the

45:29

accuracy of the recent

45:31

archaeological findings about Be

45:34

Custard. Appleseed remains. we

45:46

likewise find similar evidence of ancient

45:49

rome contact with the americas in

45:51

the form of certain new world

45:53

fruit believed to be recognized in

45:56

art work as in certain mosaics

45:58

can be found what appear to

46:00

be pineapples. Though

46:02

it is argued by skeptics that

46:05

these are actually umbrella pine tree

46:07

pine cones, the depiction of vertical

46:09

leaves sprouting from the top of

46:12

them makes this identification somewhat weak.

46:15

Still though, in this case

46:17

the artwork stands alone and

46:20

can easily be dismissed as

46:22

misconstrued. We have no

46:24

physical dated evidence of pineapples in

46:26

the Roman Empire as there appear

46:28

to be custard apples in India.

46:31

But in the Americas there have

46:33

been discovered numerous artifacts that have

46:35

been claimed to be of Roman

46:38

origin. In

46:40

1924 in Tucson,

46:42

Arizona, 31 lead artifacts

46:45

were found including

46:47

swords and crosses and

46:49

religious objects which bore

46:51

Roman numerals and Latin

46:53

inscriptions. In Mexico

46:56

City, a terracotta sculpture of a bearded

46:58

head was discovered in 1933 that appears

47:00

very similar to

47:04

Roman artwork of the second

47:06

century CE. And

47:08

in 1982 in Guanabara Bay

47:10

near Rio de Janeiro, a

47:13

diver discovered what appeared to

47:15

be numerous jars extraordinarily similar

47:18

to Roman amphori, vessels

47:20

with a narrow neck and two handles. It

47:23

should be conceded that the possibility

47:26

of a drift event of a

47:28

single vessel being swept off course

47:30

and carried as a derelict by

47:33

currents between continents is not impossible.

47:36

And Romans did have seaworthy vessels.

47:38

There is evidence that Romans ranged

47:40

overseas as far as the Canary

47:42

Islands after all. And

47:45

being lost at sea in those

47:47

waters could indeed result in the

47:49

Canary Current carrying a ship into

47:52

the North Equatorial Current which would

47:54

take them out across the Atlantic

47:56

toward Central America and the Gulf

47:59

of America. of Mexico. For

48:02

these artifacts to have ended up

48:04

where they were found, there only

48:06

needed to be one shipwreck and

48:08

in the case of the Tucson

48:10

artifacts, some survivors who carried them

48:12

across a strange new land. But

48:15

of course, all of these

48:17

artifacts are likely hoaxes. Experts

48:21

point out that the Tucson artifacts

48:23

were crudely cast and that their

48:25

Latin inscriptions are all of well-known

48:28

works by Virgil and Cicero and

48:30

thus easy for a forger to

48:32

have faked. Skeptics

48:35

have even fingered a likely culprit,

48:37

a local sculptor known to work

48:39

with lead and to collect books

48:42

on foreign languages. As

48:44

for the terracotta head of Mexico

48:46

City, skeptics point out

48:48

that it was discovered not in

48:51

a second century archaeological site but

48:53

rather in a site that was dated

48:55

to the 15th century CE. Most

48:58

likely the terracotta head was deposited

49:01

there either by a modern hoaxer

49:03

or by a 15th century

49:06

European. And finally,

49:08

the seemingly Roman amphori that

49:10

were found in the bay

49:12

near Rio were promoted by

49:14

an underwater archaeologist known for

49:16

self-promotion who had run into

49:18

trouble with the law for

49:21

illegally selling antiquities. Though

49:23

not widely reported in America,

49:25

nothing ever became of this

49:27

discovery in the 80s because

49:29

Brazilian authorities determined it to

49:31

be a hoax after

49:33

a businessman came forward to

49:36

claim the jars as his

49:38

property, explaining that he'd had

49:40

the jars manufactured in Portugal

49:42

and purposely sunk into Guanabara

49:45

Bay 20 years earlier in

49:47

order to increase their worth

49:50

By making them appear aged. No,

50:04

all of these intriguing theories

50:07

inevitably disappoint under scrutiny, leaving

50:09

us with only the meager

50:11

evidence of an ancient from

50:13

seed in India. There is

50:16

actually more reliable and convincing

50:18

evidence that indeed, at least

50:20

one other pre Colombian Transoceanic

50:22

contact theory besides that of

50:25

Norse contact with the Americas

50:27

might actually be true. It

50:29

seems Lin Manuel Miranda got

50:31

it right when in the

50:34

animated. Film More Wanna He

50:36

depicted Polynesian cultures as explorers

50:38

who set a course to

50:41

find a brand new island

50:43

everywhere they roam. Theories

50:46

about Polynesian contact with the

50:48

Americas developed from the late

50:50

nineteenth century to today, based

50:53

largely on the similarities between

50:55

Polynesian watercraft and the unique

50:57

sown plague canoes used by

51:00

native peoples of the Santa

51:02

Barbara coastal area of California.

51:05

Additionally, similarities between phone

51:07

and shell fish hooks

51:09

used in both Polynesia

51:11

and California were considered

51:13

an additional telltale sign

51:15

of cultural diffusion. Then

51:18

there is the diffusion of the

51:20

sweet potato, which can be seen

51:22

to have spread from Polynesia across

51:24

all the Pacific islands, including the

51:26

very distant Hawaii and Easter Island,

51:29

all the way to the coasts

51:31

of Central and South America. Such

51:34

eastward expansion was long

51:36

deemed impossible due to

51:38

the prevailing westward wins.

51:40

Which led for higher dolls

51:42

a Norwegian as not refer

51:44

and adventurer to theorize in

51:47

the nineteen forties and fifties

51:49

that the civilizations of South

51:51

America specifically the Inca had

51:53

made contact and colonized Polynesia

51:55

by crossing the Pacific in

51:58

a westerly direction. On right,

52:00

that's. He did. He

52:02

even attempted to prove his thesis

52:04

by undertaking a dramatic crossing of

52:06

the Pacific on a raft in

52:09

Nineteen Forty Seven. However,

52:11

Polynesian scholars have proven that

52:13

the area was actually settled

52:15

from the west, and that

52:18

Polynesian people's certainly did expand

52:20

eastward by sailing against the

52:22

wind in search of new

52:25

islands, knowing that prevailing winds

52:27

would always carry them home.

52:29

Linguistic evidence also favors this

52:31

model, with a more convincing

52:34

etymological case being made that

52:36

the forms of the same

52:38

words for planks own canoes.

52:41

And sweet potatoes were in

52:43

use across the Pacific basin.

52:46

Finally, just a few

52:48

years ago and twenty

52:50

twenty, a genetic study

52:52

appeared in the scholarly

52:54

journal Nature that examined

52:57

genome variation to determine

52:59

Polynesian Native American admixture,

53:01

finding quote conclusive evidence

53:03

for prehistoric contact of

53:05

Polynesians with Native Americans

53:07

and. Thus, It

53:10

seems as with the theory

53:12

of pre Colombian Scandinavian contact

53:14

with the Americas, this theory

53:16

to stands up to scrutiny

53:18

and unlike hyper diffusion ist

53:20

claims this theory does not

53:23

erase Native American cultural identities

53:25

or give credit for their

53:27

greatest achievements to another culture.

53:30

So. far as i can discern

53:32

it doesn't appear to be

53:34

a bid to take credit

53:36

for the accomplishments of new

53:38

worlds inhabitants or to lay

53:40

claim by rights of discovery

53:42

to new world lands on

53:44

many other transoceanic contact theories

53:46

as we will see in

53:48

part to have this series

54:05

Thanks for listening to historical blindness.

54:08

Check out the blog post for this

54:10

episode, which should go up on historicalblindness.com

54:13

before the next episode releases

54:15

with a transcript, related imagery

54:17

and citations for further reading.

54:20

As always, thanks go out to

54:22

my partner patrons, Diane Lane, Robert

54:25

Fisher, Joe Escott, Sean Unger, Devlin

54:28

Hoff, Michael Markham, Mitchell

54:30

Shuttler, Jessica Reeves, Fred

54:32

R. Grotice, Robin

54:34

Naggett, Rebecca, Don Mundus,

54:37

Eunice Allen Bradley, Juliet

54:39

O'Connor, Jonathan Williams, Joshua

54:41

Luddington, Logan Houlihan, Lily

54:43

Powers, John Goen, Lonnie

54:46

Kofer, Ralph Fenn, Aymah,

54:48

Kevin Osborne, Ed Shockley,

54:50

Benny Slater, That

54:52

One Girl, and Jocelyn

54:55

Clawson. I'm a

54:57

bit behind on patron fulfillment as

54:59

far as printing my historical novel

55:01

and mailing out signed copies to

55:03

partner patrons. I hope to remedy

55:06

that soon. Please bear with

55:08

me, and thanks so much for

55:10

your generous support of the podcast.

55:13

This podcast is part of

55:15

the Airwave Media Podcast Network.

55:18

Visit airwavemedia.com to listen and subscribe

55:20

to their other fine shows, like

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55:26

Some music on this episode was licensed

55:28

through a Blue Dot Sessions Blanket License

55:30

at the time of the episode's publication.

55:33

Additional music is by Kai

55:36

Engel, licensed under a Creative

55:38

Commons Attribution License. Check

55:40

out the show notes for a list of the tracks

55:42

used. You can support the

55:45

show by pledging on Patreon or by

55:47

making a one-time donation on PayPal. Find

55:50

those links in the show notes or

55:52

find me on Venmo at historicalblindness. Until

55:55

next time, remember the words of

55:57

Saint Augustine as quoted by Gonzalo

56:00

Fernandez de Oviedo to

56:02

rationalize his suspicion of

56:05

myths about pre-Columbian trans-oceanic

56:07

contact theories. Quote,

56:09

when the facts are obscure,

56:11

it is better to exercise

56:14

doubt than to argue an

56:16

uncertain case. End

56:19

quote. End quote. Get

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