0:02

Help me be me is self help for

0:04

people who hate self help hosted by

0:06

me, Sarah May. What I talk about

0:08

on this show is my personal opinion and

0:10

it's not a substitute for professional help.

0:12

Take what helps and leave the rest. If

0:15

you're suffering, please call 911 or

0:17

your local emergency services.

0:26

Yay. Oh, so nice

0:28

to meet you. What an honor. Oh, thank

0:30

you. You do such good work. Oh,

0:32

really? Thank you. Well, you've

0:35

you've done a little you've done a little

0:37

work in you. Beautiful

0:40

stuff. Wow. My

0:42

hair's all standing up. authenticity

0:46

and courage. It's really impressive.

0:49

Oh my goodness. You're

0:52

making me glow. And why

0:54

don't you talk about shame and you're

0:56

so transparent? It's

0:58

Oh, I'm just so grateful you're

1:01

just

1:01

so grateful you're in the world. Oh,

1:04

my guy, you're gonna make me cry. Well,

1:07

I feel the same way about you. I am

1:10

in common. Very

1:12

humble to to be able to speak with you today.

1:16

And I'm a big fan of your work, and I've

1:19

recommended your books to my clients

1:21

and my listeners.

1:23

the

1:24

So, yeah, thank you so much for the kind

1:27

words. Well,

1:31

I was so just so you know, this is

1:33

a very casual type of show.

1:35

I don't do many interviews. And

1:37

when I do, it's just like, you know, whatever

1:40

comes up and we go in all

1:42

different directions. So it's very

1:44

kind of free form and you

1:46

need the way and I will be happy to follow.

1:49

Okay. Amazing. Well,

1:52

first, I wanna just introduce you.

1:54

Do you go by I've read that you go by Katie.

1:56

Is that right? Byron

1:58

Katie, Byron

1:59

Katie. Julie,

1:59

you just fall into Katie. Okay.

2:03

Great. Well, the

2:05

amazing and one and only Byron

2:07

Katie. author

2:10

speaker, world

2:12

changer. I mean, you I know you do

2:15

trainings as well, so all different

2:17

types of work.

2:19

any other plugs that I should

2:21

throw in the mix there? Oh,

2:23

I do. Monday, Tuesday,

2:25

and Wednesday,

2:27

of every week, I do a nine

2:29

to ten AM

2:31

them

2:32

just free for all.

2:34

Oh, wow. Yeah.

2:36

On on people

2:38

can find it on on the work

2:40

dot com, I guess. Oh, great.

2:42

Okay. I might join that too now

2:44

that I know about it. It's amazing. Oh,

2:47

my gosh. You just

2:49

it's just they're they're just

2:52

so they're they're it's amazing

2:54

what they'll

2:57

yeah, they're just

2:58

the

2:59

well, there's

3:00

nothing I can say about people that you wouldn't

3:02

understand being connected to

3:04

them and watching their courage.

3:06

I bet.

3:08

Yeah. I mean, that's kind of like church,

3:10

I I would imagine. Yeah. The

3:13

church from well, from from hell

3:15

to church. Okay. All

3:17

within the church. Yeah. Totally.

3:21

But like a replacement for it, I feel like

3:23

you know, that's kind of what so many people are searching

3:26

for and just

3:28

what can replace that level of,

3:31

I guess,

3:32

humble,

3:34

ah, you know, that you get from

3:36

being able to be in a prep the presence

3:37

of something greater. And I feel like someone

3:39

like you could probably offer somebody something

3:42

like that. Well,

3:44

okay. So the part of the reason I wanted to

3:46

talk with you is just because I feel like so much

3:48

of what my audience struggles

3:50

with and what I struggle with is really, like,

3:53

disengaging from old thought patterns,

3:55

teaching ourselves out of them, overcoming

3:59

kind of like the the kind of emotional

4:01

baggage that's stuck in your body where

4:03

it kinda triggers you to revisit

4:05

a time and a place. Yeah. And

4:08

one thing I think I love

4:10

about your work in particular is it's so

4:13

simple and it's something that

4:15

people can do to just kind of disengage,

4:18

like, see the thinking that's happening in

4:20

in their brain and disengage from

4:22

it and have, like, an actual choice

4:24

in their life whether or not they wanna

4:26

succumb to it and follow it or choose something

4:28

different, which is kind of like

4:30

the

4:30

secret to everything in in some ways. It's

4:33

like being able

4:33

to free yourself from all these old

4:36

all these old programming.

4:40

So I'm sorry, like,

4:42

a big, big question. How

4:45

do we, like, go of stories

4:48

that kind of keep us trapped

4:50

in anger and resent because I

4:52

think

4:52

a lot of people get stuck there. Well,

4:55

self inquiry is

4:58

is what I'm all about.

5:00

And and

5:01

it takes a a very

5:04

open mind to look into

5:06

one's self. But

5:08

let's say,

5:11

I have a trauma around

5:13

someone that was really

5:15

hurting me. really

5:17

hurting me.

5:18

And and

5:21

I would go back and the ego

5:24

is happy to take us back there

5:26

because it occurs and occurs and occurs

5:28

even when it's not even going on. It's

5:30

occurring and we're going on with

5:32

our day. It becomes like

5:34

an habitual thing

5:36

that we don't even know is there anymore,

5:39

but it's living in us. And

5:41

it's part of our identity

5:44

So with

5:46

what I call the junior

5:47

neighbor worksheets, people

5:50

anchor in a time and place. So

5:52

in the situation where he was hurting me,

5:54

it doesn't matter. If it was

5:56

forty years ago or yesterday, it

5:59

doesn't matter.

6:00

It's it's it's in

6:02

me. Mhmm.

6:02

Correct.

6:04

And it doesn't have to be a trauma. It can

6:07

be like the tiniest little thing

6:09

when our feelings of hurt can shift

6:11

the rest of our lives make us

6:13

so self

6:15

aware and then we we

6:17

offer up these facades we

6:19

think. We can hide behind

6:21

and that is just linear

6:23

as

6:23

living falsely and

6:26

-- Yeah. -- you know it, but it's

6:28

the best we can do. Okay.

6:30

So I invite people to to

6:33

identify

6:34

in in this case. For example,

6:38

that situation, I

6:40

don't wanna go there.

6:41

to go, you

6:43

know,

6:44

redo it voluntarily is what the

6:46

ego offers up. So now let's do it on

6:48

purpose. To go back,

6:50

where

6:50

he was doing that harm, he

6:52

was hurting

6:52

me

6:54

in that situation

6:55

and it takes courage.

6:58

and then identify

7:01

what I

7:03

was thinking and believing.

7:07

Cool. So it's like a time travel.

7:09

Oh, yeah. And I have

7:13

I have

7:17

this process is about identifying

7:20

Well, I'll say it. I'll say it this reality. It's

7:23

it's the cause of suffering

7:25

is what I was thinking and

7:27

believing in any given situation.

7:29

It cannot be the perpetrator.

7:32

And that does not mean he didn't do what he

7:34

did and say what he said and the

7:36

whole nine yards. It doesn't let him

7:38

off the hook. It's just

7:40

that what I

7:42

was thinking and believing in

7:44

the situation that was the cause

7:46

of my suffering -- Mhmm. and

7:49

that is just how it

7:51

is.

7:52

So

7:53

to identify those, I have a thing I

7:55

call the judge enabling worksheet. There are

7:57

six questions on it. And

7:59

as

7:59

we stay anchored in that

8:02

situation, and again, it takes

8:03

courage.

8:04

It's like specifically,

8:09

What is the emotion? Like,

8:11

all of them running, but named

8:14

one. What what emotion?

8:16

you know, you are

8:18

you most in touch with?

8:21

And

8:22

and why?

8:24

Mhmm.

8:25

Okay? So

8:28

I

8:29

am furious with him.

8:33

because he hurt me. Mhmm.

8:37

And I know where he hurt

8:39

me, how he hurt me. That's all running in

8:41

me.

8:42

he hurt me.

8:44

Right? I could

8:44

say more, but I love keeping it

8:47

simple. Mhmm. And

8:48

and And if

8:50

there's more there, I wouldn't hesitate to put it. I

8:52

just want to keep it simple. Yeah.

8:55

And then the second question there

8:57

is, in that situation, what

8:59

did I want? So

9:01

I've

9:01

got to sit in that trauma if I'm gonna

9:03

fill in this

9:03

worksheet. Mhmm. What

9:06

did I want from

9:08

him? I want

9:10

him I wanted him to stop

9:12

hurting me. Mhmm.

9:14

I want him to hear

9:16

me. Mhmm. I

9:20

want him to apologize for

9:22

what he did to

9:22

me. Mhmm.

9:25

And

9:25

then when I feel empty,

9:28

I move

9:28

to the third question and

9:31

that is in that situation.

9:35

what advice to get what I

9:38

want? What advice would I

9:40

offer him? And

9:41

see, I don't have to guess. It's

9:43

run running. It was running in that situation.

9:45

I'm just collecting old

9:46

business. Right. Right. Loan.

9:50

So he should. He shouldn't.

9:52

he

9:54

should stop

9:55

what he's doing.

9:58

He

9:58

should

9:59

hear me.

10:01

he

10:03

shouldn't hurt.

10:04

He

10:07

shouldn't physically hurt.

10:10

it shouldn't physically hurt me.

10:12

And it

10:12

might be physically and emotionally. Mhmm.

10:15

And then

10:16

the next one on the on the worksheet,

10:18

there are only six questions to answer.

10:21

The next one is, what do

10:23

I need to be happy in that situation?

10:25

I

10:26

need him to stop what he's doing

10:28

I need him to apologize and walk away.

10:30

And maybe

10:30

not even apologize. I need

10:33

him to stop what he's doing

10:35

and walk away. I

10:37

don't even want him to

10:39

stick around long enough to poll to

10:41

to apologize. Right.

10:43

because I'm in it. You can

10:45

hear how I'm I'm living through it.

10:48

Right?

10:49

So then the the

10:51

next one on the Judge Enable worksheet

10:54

is what is

10:55

it that I never want to

10:58

experience with him or that situation

11:00

again?

11:01

And I

11:02

never want him to touch

11:04

me again. I

11:06

never want to be hurt by him

11:08

again. And

11:10

so now the worksheets filled in.

11:12

And there is there

11:15

is what I wanted, what I needed to

11:17

be happy, what there is my

11:19

expression that I was experiencing then.

11:22

Mhmm. k? So then

11:24

I look at each one of those one by

11:26

one giving respect. to

11:29

each thought, and

11:31

I question it. I

11:34

anchor, I stay anchored in this situation.

11:36

and I question the thoughts.

11:39

Like, I want him to

11:41

stop. Is it true?

11:44

Yes.

11:46

I

11:47

wanted him to stop.

11:49

And

11:53

I might go back to the yes and, oh, god,

11:55

that's a I

11:57

wanted him to stop. Is it

11:59

true?

12:01

It couldn't

12:02

couldn't

12:04

possibly be no. Mhmm.

12:06

But

12:08

something tripped me back there.

12:10

So I'm

12:12

gonna give it time.

12:14

What

12:16

opens in that space when we sit

12:18

in ourselves and there are no other witnesses

12:20

it's just me with me. Mhmm.

12:23

Don't know what

12:24

you're gonna find, but until

12:26

you find it. It's like the princess and the

12:29

p.

12:29

there is there

12:31

and those

12:33

mattresses are on top

12:35

of us.

12:37

and

12:37

we can't just

12:40

shove them aside. That's

12:43

where addiction takes on life.

12:47

oh So

12:48

it is you know, how do I react

12:50

when I believe the thought I want him to stop?

12:53

Let's see. I've been experiencing

12:55

that for forty

12:56

years. Okay?

13:03

a

13:04

person that gets still in that and they can

13:06

see how they react. The thing they're

13:08

addicted to shows up. And I

13:10

use the example

13:13

of imagine

13:15

right now biting into a big

13:17

ripe juicy lemon. And

13:21

you feel it. Oh, totally.

13:24

So how do I react when

13:26

I believe the thought?

13:28

that physical

13:30

thing happens.

13:32

Oh, totally. Yeah.

13:34

And and what do we do with that?

13:36

Then something shows up.

13:39

automatically. They even offer

13:41

up the ice cream,

13:44

the dough the cigarette,

13:47

the the whatever it is.

13:49

Mhmm. When it when it when the ego

13:51

has nowhere to go, it offers

13:53

that up. It's got you.

13:55

And then

13:56

let's say it's alcohol.

14:00

You've

14:00

already had your first drink. It's like the lemon.

14:02

Your mouth is already happening, and

14:04

nothing happened, but an

14:06

image of of

14:09

that in your

14:11

mind times like if

14:13

you've been alcoholic for so long

14:15

times a thousand or who

14:17

knows the number. So that's what

14:19

you're dealing with. And then

14:21

it shows you the Eagle offers up where

14:23

to find it, where to find the substance.

14:26

and and you're already

14:28

there before you're there. Mhmm.

14:30

So

14:31

in that process, the six steps,

14:34

After you've done the six steps, then you're doing

14:36

the process of inquiry, the four

14:38

question. We should probably recap the four questions

14:40

just in case somebody is not is not familiar

14:42

with your work. The first one

14:44

is is it true? Mhmm. And

14:47

then the second one is

14:50

them

14:51

How

14:54

do you react?

14:56

What

14:56

happens when

14:58

you think the thought?

15:00

that

15:00

you're questioning.

15:02

And who would you be without

15:04

it? So

15:05

the

15:07

Is it

15:08

true? How do you react when you think the

15:10

thought? Mhmm. And

15:12

who would you be without it? And

15:14

when we look at shame, and

15:16

blame. You know, how

15:18

do I react when I believe the thought?

15:21

I

15:21

blame. I feel shame. I'm

15:23

there and I don't even know I'm there.

15:25

Mhmm.

15:26

relipping the whole thing and I don't I'm

15:29

asleep in a dream. It's just

15:31

like being asleep at night,

15:33

having a nightmare, or just

15:35

a mild dream. It's

15:36

the same. It's like it's

15:39

happening in the day. Life

15:41

is

15:42

a

15:43

life is

15:45

imaginary. It's imagined. Mhmm.

15:47

We see the

15:49

past, we see the future. and

15:51

we very rarely can

15:53

stay here because Eagles, like

15:56

Eagle is showing us

15:58

other lives and another

15:59

lives. past future.

16:02

And

16:03

so what is the process after

16:05

the after

16:07

I've So I've stopped I've done my six questions.

16:09

Now I've done the four questions on

16:13

that first whatever

16:14

it is, the first set of

16:16

this

16:16

should I want this to happen.

16:19

Do I eventually get to

16:21

the point of

16:23

practicing to saying

16:25

not being

16:26

so invested in those sets of

16:29

feelings? Or what is

16:30

organic? I

16:32

want him to stop, is it true? And I

16:34

really pondered that one. You

16:36

know, like, if it's

16:37

true, I can't be a victim.

16:40

If it's true,

16:43

I mean, I'm really sitting in. I want him

16:45

to stop. Is it true?

16:47

because there's

16:48

a there are a lot of

16:49

perks in being a victim.

16:53

and and

16:54

control over that person.

16:57

Mhmm. I mean,

16:58

it gets really weird.

17:01

And so I hesitated there.

17:03

And I don't pretend something.

17:06

Okay. So is it true? And and I'm

17:08

landing in, and I really looked at it

17:10

well. I looked at the yes, I

17:12

looked at the no.

17:14

And, yes, I want him to stop. Mhmm.

17:16

Yeah. I

17:18

I got in touch with it. Not

17:21

what I'm thinking I'm believing now. I'm

17:23

looking at them. I want them

17:25

to stop. Mhmm. Okay.

17:28

So how do I react when I believe

17:30

the thought? and then I look at

17:34

I'm

17:35

meditating that. How do I

17:37

react when I think that the other one to

17:40

stop?

17:40

And, you

17:41

know, it's I just invite

17:44

people to to sit in that and see for

17:46

themselves. You know, I

17:47

have my own.

17:50

and it's different for every situation

17:52

that I look at.

17:54

But

17:55

then the last one,

17:57

the last question, who would I be without the

18:00

thought.

18:00

And and,

18:02

you know, Buddhist

18:05

talk about compassion.

18:07

And that

18:09

fourth one, it's where

18:11

I understood

18:12

from personal experience,

18:15

compassion, would I be without the

18:16

thought I want him to stop? I can't

18:19

stop him, you

18:20

know,

18:21

because I am

18:23

witnessing there now, I

18:25

couldn't. Mhmm. But who

18:26

would I be without

18:28

the thought? I want him to stop. I saw

18:31

his face. And

18:34

in this situation, I saw fear

18:37

all over him.

18:41

And

18:41

I just said in that

18:43

end,

18:46

compassion just happened. And

18:49

I'm thinking, and this may

18:51

sound strange, but what position

18:53

is is

18:55

less painful. And, you

18:58

know,

18:58

I'm seeing in that situation,

19:01

mine.

19:10

Mhmm. And

19:12

I saw it. I

19:14

can't change

19:15

it. I sit in it. I don't try to

19:17

change it. I don't try to make it. I don't try

19:20

to unmake it? That

19:22

fourth

19:22

question is so powerful. Who would I

19:25

be without the

19:25

thought I wanted to stop? Or would I be without

19:28

my story?

19:30

Mhmm.

19:30

Plastered all over him at

19:32

the time. So

19:34

I get to so I get to see without

19:36

that. I

19:38

just dropped me, look at him,

19:40

and

19:40

the

19:43

well,

19:43

So I want

19:46

him to stop. I want me to stop.

19:48

There's another

19:50

turnaround.

19:52

Okay. What happened?

19:54

What he did has been years?

19:57

And

19:58

when

19:59

I look at, I want

19:59

me to stop. Then

20:02

it's

20:03

on it's it's on me, not

20:05

in a bad way, but just to

20:07

notice when when it reoccurs,

20:10

to remember

20:11

that compassion

20:13

and have

20:14

a little of that for myself.

20:17

and

20:18

just notice that it's

20:20

not happening now

20:22

and

20:22

experience the release in that, the

20:25

gratitude of that, and And

20:28

it's almost

20:29

as though compassion has

20:31

taken it over. But we've

20:34

only looked at one you know,

20:36

it has really had a strong effect

20:37

there. But

20:39

we've

20:39

just looked at one

20:42

thing on that judge enabled

20:43

merchant. is

20:44

one. So

20:47

if people set through

20:49

everything they wrote, they do those four

20:51

questions and turn around with everything they

20:53

they wrote.

20:55

Then what happens

20:58

is

20:59

is it is

21:02

We

21:02

wake up to ourselves. We wake

21:04

up to reality. It is

21:07

it's so palpable because it's you with

21:10

you there's no one coming, there's no

21:12

help, and you're going into that darkness

21:14

and

21:15

and seeing what's

21:16

there and taking responsive

21:20

ability for what I was thinking

21:22

and

21:22

believing. Mhmm. And

21:24

he has hints.

21:26

And, you know, this is

21:29

a this is a big

21:31

deal to

21:33

understand from experience.

21:36

that it's what I was thinking and

21:39

believing that was the cause of my

21:41

suffering, not what he was doing.

21:43

And

21:44

that doesn't mean it didn't hurt.

21:46

And

21:46

that didn't mean doesn't mean it didn't affect

21:48

the rest of

21:50

my life.

21:53

I'm

21:54

awake. Mhmm.

21:56

Taking care of my car.

21:59

Mhmm. And how

22:00

many times have I had the thought I

22:03

want him to stop. I want her to stop. I

22:05

want them to stop. I mean, it just goes on

22:07

and on and on. So it

22:09

wakes me up to the rest of my

22:11

life just doing that one worksheet.

22:14

It's interesting

22:17

because it's like I mean, I have so

22:19

many things in my brain that are

22:21

resistant at the

22:23

same time. Like, I have my adult

22:25

brain that's like, oh, I totally

22:27

can take this apart logically

22:29

and see all of the applicable things

22:31

that makes sense

22:32

to me. And then I have this, like,

22:34

resistant part that's, like, I think

22:36

more likely the

22:38

younger child traumatized part that's

22:40

like, no, no, but I can't let go. We

22:43

can't let go of that story. It's

22:45

a it's a big deal because there goes

22:47

your there

22:47

goes your identity.

22:49

This is a typical thing we're sitting in.

22:52

Mhmm.

22:52

So who

22:54

am I? Without

22:55

that, I don't even know. I

22:58

mean, I there goes

23:00

my victimhood. That's terrifying.

23:02

Who am I without

23:05

that? Yeah.

23:06

It's a it's a

23:10

it's a big ask of

23:12

one cent. Right. Well, and I think the

23:14

key, at least I'm this is my interpretation

23:16

of what you're saying is, like, it's not about

23:18

saying it's okay. And it's not

23:20

about saying this was

23:22

should happen or should ever happen. It's more about

23:25

reclaiming the

23:26

hurt it happened and

23:27

repeatedly. And that's

23:30

not right.

23:31

No.

23:34

It doesn't it doesn't change.

23:36

That doesn't change it. Right.

23:38

but in that process

23:40

of like this kind of digging in the

23:43

dark. In many ways, what I'm

23:45

noticing is like through

23:47

that excavation process, you

23:49

can have a choice

23:51

of putting down the story.

23:54

I

23:54

didn't I won't have a story. It's it's like,

23:56

I question it in it. Let's go of

23:58

me. Yeah. Yeah. Let go of

24:00

it. It's nothing I have to do.

24:04

It it let's go of

24:07

me.

24:08

That's

24:12

nuts. Yeah.

24:16

because it's true.

24:16

I mean, I remember it the most with just that

24:18

I had a friend who died when I was in

24:20

in

24:21

middle school, and she was my best friend

24:23

and I was a witness to it. And I

24:25

in that moment was like, I will

24:28

never ever I like promised it to myself. I

24:30

will never ever let go of

24:32

her. I'll never ever

24:33

heal from this. And

24:35

that lodged so just

24:38

tightly in my body that I

24:40

couldn't, you know, process it because I was,

24:42

like, I had chosen not to. And

24:44

I think a lot of of integrity, you

24:47

promised.

24:47

Mhmm. Mhmm. Go against

24:49

integrity. Oh, can't

24:51

do that. Mhmm. you know,

24:54

what does that say about me?

24:56

Right. Did I not

24:57

mean it? It's it's a kind

24:59

in the situation that you're describing.

25:01

It's like a Bill, we cast

25:04

on ourselves. Yeah. Totally.

25:06

Well, I think a lot of people do

25:08

that without consciously deciding it.

25:10

When when something has has hurt

25:12

us enough, I think we unconsciously decide, like,

25:14

I will never ever get over

25:16

this because that's how much it

25:18

meant. Yeah. And it's not even

25:20

safe to. much

25:21

remember because that's, you know,

25:23

that's a safety thing. Mhmm.

25:26

Mhmm. Oh,

25:28

boy. Boy. Eagle.

25:32

It's it's

25:34

worth listening to and

25:37

and,

25:38

you know, have an expression all

25:40

war belongs on paper.

25:43

Mhmm.

25:43

And

25:44

and that paper, those

25:47

six questions on the judge enable

25:49

worksheet. It

25:50

takes courage

25:51

to even fill that

25:54

in.

25:54

Mhmm.

25:57

Do you

25:58

ever find that when

25:59

you're working with people who are

26:02

in that stage of growth and

26:04

change that it's too much and

26:06

they can't can't even fill that

26:08

out? Like, do people I'm

26:11

imagining that it would be a lot

26:13

to

26:13

to bear. You know what I

26:15

mean? Yeah. It

26:17

can be. It's a big ask

26:19

of oneself, but it's nothing

26:21

anyone has

26:22

to do. Mhmm.

26:23

This this is this is

26:26

true self help. And

26:28

for me, it requires

26:31

going into the darkness and,

26:33

you know, into

26:34

the whole, the bottomless whole,

26:36

not knowing if all ever come out

26:38

again or

26:39

not. Mhmm. That's

26:40

where I

26:43

started.

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27:57

Can

28:00

you talk

28:03

a little bit about because I I've

28:05

read your books and I the story,

28:07

but could you just talk about a little bit about how you arrived at

28:10

this process of

28:12

excavation and

28:13

something great. It

28:15

was More

28:16

than a

28:18

decade, at least a decade of

28:21

just

28:24

just self loading

28:26

on

28:27

agoraphobia.

28:30

most of the time was

28:32

just spent in my bedroom.

28:35

But the house, which you were to

28:37

leave the house

28:37

was just terrified

28:39

And and

28:41

one day as

28:43

I

28:44

lay, sleeping

28:46

on the floor.

28:49

even

28:49

though there's my bed in the room and didn't

28:51

I'm so full of self loathing. I don't believe

28:53

I even deserved to sleep in a

28:56

bed. And

28:56

and asleep on

28:58

the floor, and

29:00

this bug crawls over my

29:03

foot.

29:05

And

29:05

before my

29:08

ego could jump in and

29:10

fill the space.

29:13

I saw

29:15

how

29:15

my world

29:17

was created.

29:20

And the way

29:20

that I saw that

29:22

was there

29:24

was nothing that's

29:26

without identification because

29:29

there

29:29

was no thought, no

29:32

eye. when

29:34

as that bug crawled over me, I woke

29:36

up. So in that space, then

29:38

all of a sudden, there was

29:41

a window. And I saw this

29:43

this kind of square thing,

29:46

and the word window hit it,

29:48

and then it was a window. So

29:50

there was image and

29:52

the

29:52

word

29:54

window and

29:57

then light was coming through the

29:59

window, and then

29:59

there was light. And

30:02

then the whole

30:05

room came

30:07

into existence from a wall ceiling

30:11

floor, and and I'm still

30:13

not identified. as I.

30:15

It's just watching the world

30:17

begin. It was just

30:20

and and I hold

30:22

that today. everything's

30:24

new. And I'm

30:26

open because I under open

30:28

to the world, because I understand

30:31

the nature of everything.

30:33

And its

30:34

nature is good. It

30:37

is goodness. And this

30:39

term we use love. And

30:41

there's no There's

30:43

nothing other than that, other than what

30:45

the ego offers up.

30:48

And we

30:49

live, we all have the

30:52

same privilege of living

30:54

now and everything

30:56

terrible that has ever happened.

30:59

to

31:00

us is in our head. We call

31:02

it the past.

31:05

But that past

31:06

is always happening now.

31:10

Mhmm.

31:10

But that's it's

31:12

happening in her head. So, yes, he

31:15

did what he did.

31:17

but it's left in my head. So that

31:20

makes it mine, not his.

31:23

So III

31:25

saw,

31:27

you know, I may regret

31:29

blank because or I'm

31:32

terrified of blank because get in touch with

31:34

the emotion. And

31:36

then the rest of it is,

31:38

I want

31:39

he should

31:41

he shouldn't or they, whoever

31:43

it is, and and To

31:45

be happy I need, it's

31:48

just that it's all on

31:50

those six questions on the judge and neighbor

31:52

worksheet. It's all

31:53

right there. It's just

31:56

circular. That's what I learned on the

31:58

floor. It's just it's

31:59

circular. And then the first

32:02

sound out of me was laughter.

32:04

Not

32:04

really. Got it. And and

32:06

it that was really

32:09

strange to laugh. Oh my

32:11

goodness. And it was you

32:13

know, it's it was something,

32:15

it was involuntary, and I didn't

32:17

stop it. And it just it

32:19

just

32:19

came up. And so that was

32:21

that was the first sound

32:24

And

32:24

it's like, I got the joke. I

32:26

got the

32:27

jokes. Like, why didn't someone tell

32:29

me?

32:29

the It's so

32:31

it's kind of similar to

32:33

Eckart Tully's story.

32:35

It's like a, you know,

32:37

modern day

32:38

enlightenment kind of moment

32:40

Mhmm. That I feel like so many people crave.

32:43

because in many ways, I mean,

32:45

to be able to, like, see behind the curtain

32:47

or I don't know how to describe it.

32:49

be the have the ego be quiet

32:51

for a minute is almost

32:53

like yeah.

32:55

I think recognizing the

33:00

authorship we all have in our brain. I mean,

33:02

I talked a lot about on my show

33:04

about the lens. Like, you can tell

33:06

yourself a really bad story. about

33:08

today, you can tell yourself a really good story about

33:10

today and both are equally true at

33:12

any given time. Yeah. And

33:14

we very much script it's

33:17

so powerful to know that options

33:19

there because when it's in

33:21

one, it obliterates the

33:23

idea of that other until someone points

33:25

it out, like you point it out.

33:27

And and then we go, oh,

33:29

gosh. Yeah. and

33:31

and we really have to test it too before we can

33:33

even believe you.

33:34

Mhmm. No.

33:37

And

33:37

in many ways, I think a lot

33:39

of because it works both ways. Kind of, like,

33:41

what you described as, like, it works in

33:43

the present in how you experience every move

33:46

moment that you move through in your life.

33:48

also works with the past in

33:51

what what kind of is encoding

33:53

your energy or or your

33:55

voluntary

33:55

energy as you move

33:57

through life. And I think

34:00

I

34:00

don't know. I always think about, like,

34:02

that process of both backwards

34:04

and forwards allows you to fully

34:06

fall in love with reality -- Yeah.

34:08

-- in the truest sense because you're

34:10

like, it just is. I don't have to

34:14

do anything. It just is. I don't have to worry about it. I don't have to

34:16

control it. I don't have to change anybody. I

34:18

don't have to judge other people.

34:20

Take so much responsibility off

34:22

your plate. Like,

34:24

what a

34:24

relief? Mhmm. I

34:26

think a

34:27

lot of my audience also,

34:29

like myself, has a

34:32

or has has an upbringing and a pattern of relating

34:34

to others that many call co

34:36

dependency. And I think co

34:40

dependency is very intertwined with your tools just

34:42

because so much of co dependency is

34:44

the pain caused by

34:46

really expecting other people to do

34:48

certain things

34:50

certain way and being very invested

34:52

in what they think and feel

34:54

and what they should think

34:57

and feel. Mhmm. I was wondering

34:59

if you could speak to a little bit just like

35:02

how this either inquiry

35:04

or the sixth judge or

35:06

neighbor worksheet

35:06

could apply to a person who's

35:09

let's say, in a

35:11

relationship where they are

35:13

painfully reliant

35:16

on the responses of

35:18

a partner. Yeah.

35:18

To to find a

35:20

situation where that partner where

35:23

they're having difficulty with

35:25

that partner, maybe they depend

35:28

on them and the partner is not

35:30

cooperating. But you defined

35:32

a place where you

35:36

were angry frightened, upset, and

35:39

and then just

35:42

identify what you were

35:43

thinking and believing in

35:46

that situation and fill in those six questions

35:48

on the worksheet. It

35:50

covers at

35:51

all. It's it's it's

35:56

that's

35:56

all there is. You know, I'm blank

35:59

because

35:59

and I want my

36:02

need. You shouldn't. I don't ever

36:04

want to.

36:06

And

36:06

that's what the

36:08

ego offers up. That's

36:10

it.

36:11

And

36:14

after the six

36:16

questions, because I know you had

36:19

a very instantaneous response when you were when you

36:21

woke up and you were like, window

36:23

light. Like, it hit you. All

36:23

the truth hit you at once and you can unlearn

36:26

it. For people

36:28

who are Well,

36:30

I thought wasn't

36:31

true. Mhmm. Mhmm. And and because

36:34

and until it

36:36

hit my head, it wasn't true.

36:39

So a window

36:39

is not my head.

36:42

So it was

36:43

it was just like,

36:45

the laughter came from,

36:47

you know, it's like, it's a joke.

36:49

It was a trick of mine. Life is a

36:51

trick of mine. Mhmm.

36:54

And

36:54

one and done

36:58

Yes.

36:58

So I know I yep. Do

37:00

you think

37:01

that because I'm,

37:04

like, picturing picturing just

37:06

people I've worked with in the past and,

37:08

like, I think there is

37:10

the desire to let go of the

37:12

story, like, the the desperate

37:14

desire and then the physical

37:16

responses where they get stuck.

37:18

Yeah. Part of how I

37:20

react when I believe

37:22

the thought Mhmm.

37:22

Mhmm. And then it's how do I react

37:24

when I believe the thought he

37:27

hit me,

37:27

for example,

37:30

I

37:30

imagined he was

37:32

going to hit me let's

37:34

say he hit me three times, he

37:39

hit me once.

37:41

I imagine he's going

37:43

to hit me again,

37:46

and so and so

37:48

I am hit before he hits

37:51

me,

37:51

mhmm,

37:54

and

37:54

and then

37:56

then he

37:56

raises his hand and I see the past where

37:58

he hit me

37:59

and I see the future

38:00

where he's gonna hit me again. And

38:03

I'm

38:03

terrified, well, did he

38:06

am I frightened of him? Or is

38:09

it my ego? that

38:12

is frightening me.

38:13

Mhmm. I don't even that

38:15

makes sense when I say it that way,

38:17

but

38:17

it's it's what

38:19

what I'm thinking and believing, what the

38:21

ego is offering up, a past

38:24

future that is causing all

38:26

pain is either remembered

38:28

or anticipated.

38:29

So true. I mean,

38:31

like, ninety nine point nine percent

38:33

of it. Yeah. So when I have the thought I

38:35

want him to stop, then,

38:37

you know, he

38:39

didn't do it. Yes, he hit

38:41

me. Yes, he hit me.

38:43

But he

38:46

didn't do. the part that is

38:48

traumatizing me.

38:50

Right?

38:53

the Cool.

38:54

I mean, it's funny because, like, we're anticipating. It's

38:58

it's, like,

38:59

it's

39:01

such a It's

39:02

it's so simple, but it's

39:03

also like your brain almost like

39:05

you know it by heart, obviously, because you've

39:07

done it as a million.

39:10

I've got some I've I've

39:12

done a few worksheets. Yeah. A lot of worksheets. Yeah.

39:14

But it's it's funny because you almost

39:17

have to, like, you have to I

39:19

keep having to treat my brain the quote the

39:22

equation and, like, realizing it. I've

39:24

realized it. I don't know how many times now, but

39:26

I'm like, oh, wow. It, like, finally clicks.

39:29

but you're like reminding

39:31

your brain to step

39:33

back and see just the shape on

39:35

the wall that's the window and not call

39:37

it window yet. That's kind of the stage that it's

39:39

teaching people to, you know.

39:42

Yeah. And there was

39:42

no eye, there was no room,

39:45

there was no there was no

39:47

anything. And and then, you know, life

39:50

appeared. And

39:52

and

39:52

and you

39:54

know, I I've on occasion, I called

39:56

it, you know, my first moment.

39:59

It's

39:59

what I'm born. I was born on the

40:01

floor at h

40:03

forty three. Then but,

40:06

you know, but I can't say

40:08

that I am any

40:10

more alive than the light

40:13

coming through the window. Really, it's

40:16

all a state of mind. This

40:18

is Earth School

40:20

where we come in just to pick up

40:22

the pieces where it's -- Mhmm.

40:25

-- and and so

40:27

this world is, to

40:29

me, it's it's like may sound strange to

40:31

some, but it's heaven. It's a

40:34

place where there's

40:38

no downside. no downside. It's a place

40:40

like earth school to

40:42

learn that it's what I'm

40:43

thinking and believing about

40:47

the world that is costing me the privilege of living

40:49

in this world.

40:52

So

40:52

true. so

40:54

true. Yeah. And and

40:56

so I

40:57

feel like in many ways you're teaching people how to

41:00

see reality and see the

41:02

moment they're

41:04

in. Well, you know, it's it's an it's if

41:05

I say the word

41:08

apple, then you see an image of

41:10

an apple and it's probably

41:12

bad. And

41:14

And when people, you

41:16

know, my

41:18

mother said,

41:21

I'm your mother or my

41:23

siblings said, mom, mom, mom,

41:25

and or ask your mother.

41:27

And until finally, it clicks

41:30

that that's my mother.

41:32

And prior to

41:34

that, I didn't have

41:37

the didn't one. didn't

41:38

even know what

41:41

it

41:41

was. So it's like

41:44

this

41:44

this

41:46

identity came

41:48

into being and but

41:51

of mind,

41:54

not body. and a

41:56

body comes with it in our school. You

41:58

know, it's it's cause an

41:59

effect. But when we're

42:02

asleep, it's sleeping at night. We're not dreaming. We don't have a

42:04

body. There's no way. There's no

42:06

eye. Mhmm.

42:09

yeah,

42:10

very profound.

42:12

And

42:14

I think well,

42:16

one thing that

42:17

happens, I think the

42:19

one

42:19

of the descriptions that I forgot which book it

42:21

was in, but it was in one of your books

42:23

here. The process is very much like getting

42:26

a car stuck in the

42:28

mud, like pushing it back and forth in the mud to

42:30

get it out of a rut. And

42:32

I do think that made a lot of sense to me

42:34

just because it's like in this

42:36

process of looking at something first of all, stepping back from it,

42:38

then looking at it from all

42:40

sides and turning it around, looking at

42:42

upside down, it gives you

42:44

enough space to see that all of that

42:46

is optional and all

42:47

of that is written in

42:49

our

42:49

minds. We keep

42:52

meditating in a moment

42:54

in time when I was

42:56

believing

42:57

like he hurt me. And there were a lot

42:59

of moments there, but

43:02

I'm anchoring in

43:02

that situation where he hit me

43:04

hear me and

43:06

just

43:08

asking

43:08

those question and answering the

43:12

questions. And

43:14

once,

43:16

you

43:16

know, once you

43:18

get that is so far reaching,

43:22

you and

43:22

experience

43:24

a kind

43:27

of compassion that

43:29

you cannot make fear

43:32

happen again then the next time you think about

43:34

it, you know, the same

43:36

situation rises to

43:38

your mind. you can't make yourself afraid. You can't make yourself

43:40

you can't make your and your

43:42

stomach doesn't turn over and your chest

43:44

doesn't hurt. You don't want

43:47

you don't you know,

43:49

you don't feel like

43:49

you have to bomb it again. You don't. It

43:52

changes

43:52

everything. Mhmm. wake

43:55

up from

43:55

that dream, you can't make

43:58

that dream a

43:59

dream. That's

44:01

so true. I

44:03

that resonates

44:05

so much because I feel like that

44:07

is exactly the process. I

44:10

mean, I very much

44:12

preached therapy to my audience just because it

44:14

worked really well for me. And I think that

44:16

is very similar to

44:18

what occurred for me in therapy was

44:21

you're you're digging through that

44:23

thing, you're sometimes reliving that

44:25

thing, you're processing all of the conflicting

44:27

feelings you have around

44:30

it, you're trying on you're exposing guilt. You're

44:32

taking about accountability. And

44:34

through that process, it's like the wound just

44:37

gets exposed to air and then it doesn't

44:39

hurt anymore. It's like, nope. I already

44:41

got all the I gutted all the

44:43

the sickness out of that thing.

44:45

Yeah. It loses potency. Yeah.

44:48

Wow.

44:50

And did you so curious,

44:53

When you were so after you're

44:55

a moment of enlightenment, I'm sure your

44:57

kids were like, what's going

44:59

on? Did you have a mental

45:01

break? What happened? was it pretty much like

45:03

you kind of knew exactly what to do with this information?

45:06

Or did it happen organically? Or how

45:08

did it evolve into what it is

45:10

now? I'm just

45:12

so curious. Well, just really unrecognizable,

45:17

unrecognizable, ever everything

45:20

shifted. I mean, just being out of bed and

45:22

dressing and showering and brushing my

45:24

bed with that. But

45:26

beyond the physical, you know, I I

45:29

picked

45:29

up a cigarette

45:30

and and it

45:34

looked crazy

45:36

to me. that

45:37

it was, like, she's gonna

45:39

what? She's gonna what? With

45:42

what? And, I mean, it was just it

45:44

was it was crazy.

45:46

So and my choice is around

45:48

food shift and

45:49

everything started

45:51

shifting. And and yeah,

45:54

it was it was

45:56

really radical because I

45:58

got such a heavy

45:59

dose. Mhmm. but it

46:01

didn't stop me from

46:03

from from

46:06

it didn't

46:07

stop the mind from

46:09

putting this stuff out that I

46:12

needed to I called it

46:14

undoing my

46:16

world. and and

46:18

I saw it as a kindness

46:20

and and a respect

46:23

that

46:23

anything that

46:25

would that would anything

46:28

powerful enough to make a

46:30

world could it's just

46:31

respectful to sit in

46:34

and, you know, is

46:36

it true? can I really know that it's true and

46:38

notice how I reacted

46:40

and who would be without it?

46:43

and and to meditate

46:45

in those four questions. And then how do

46:47

I react when I believe

46:50

the thought? It's it's I have

46:52

a lot of, you know,

46:54

I

46:54

hurt people.

46:55

I said

46:58

things. I did things and

47:00

no enlightenment is going to change that even though I know

47:04

it is

47:04

a state

47:07

of mind that it is not happening

47:10

now wasn't

47:12

enough. those

47:13

people that I said

47:16

what I said and I did what I

47:18

did that was

47:20

hurtful, harmful,

47:22

it

47:23

showed me in in in that

47:25

worksheet. As I said in those,

47:27

it showed me specifically

47:29

he can play

47:32

just

47:32

meticulously

47:34

what I said,

47:36

what I did,

47:39

specifically what to admit

47:41

to,

47:41

what to apologize for

47:44

and how to make

47:48

it right. it's

47:48

it's just all there.

47:51

It's

47:51

all there. And, you know, it

47:53

had to be because it had to come

47:55

out of that first experience

47:58

on the floor. Let's

48:00

I just saw how the world was

48:02

created and how did end it.

48:05

So

48:05

in that in the

48:07

six steps that gave you

48:09

the opportunity to, in

48:12

many ways, fall in love with the

48:14

reality, including

48:16

the

48:16

reality of what needed to be

48:18

repaired. Does that

48:20

This that six questions

48:22

on the judge and

48:23

neighbor worksheet showed me

48:25

my thoughts, the thing like this, what

48:27

I was thinking and believing.

48:29

in any given situation. So it's

48:31

a meditative process. It's an

48:34

existentialist to be there now

48:36

and collect what you

48:37

were thinking and believing and write it

48:39

down. And

48:42

and

48:42

then the poor questions,

48:44

you go back and and

48:47

I would go back and

48:49

use those with everything on

48:51

my judge and

48:53

neighbor worksheet. And

48:54

then, like, for example, I

48:56

want him to

48:57

stop. How

48:59

do I, you

49:01

know, turned around

49:04

I want me to

49:04

stop. And so it doesn't come up

49:07

like something I have to do.

49:09

It's an exercise

49:10

and forgiveness.

49:13

exercising making it right. It is

49:16

far from something I

49:18

have to do. It's an exercise in

49:20

kindness and compassion and

49:22

self love. That gives

49:26

the world a kinder human being

49:28

in me -- Mhmm.

49:29

-- just continues

49:32

to to

49:33

to to

49:36

show me how to live. Those worksheets

49:38

because with that kind of

49:40

of

49:41

full dose on the

49:44

floor. I had no idea how

49:46

to live.

49:48

Mhmm. And And so those turnarounds, you

49:50

know, they became life to

49:52

me, how to how

49:54

to live.

49:55

Like, I want him

49:56

to apologize for what

49:59

he did.

50:00

You know, I'm

50:00

I want me

50:01

to apologize for what

50:04

I did. And let's say, I said

50:06

or did something to

50:06

hurt him just this tiny,

50:09

tiny, tiny, tiny

50:12

little thing. and his

50:14

was a thousand bulls,

50:18

just much more than I could

50:20

even begin

50:22

to count. But no,

50:23

Princess and the pig again on god to

50:25

take care

50:26

of this one

50:27

thing, and that is

50:30

all

50:30

there.

50:32

and

50:32

it doesn't necessarily have to be with him,

50:34

but with someone, you

50:37

know, starting

50:40

with myself, you know, I

50:42

it's done. Yep. Yep. I did

50:44

it.

50:44

And and how do I

50:46

react? I believe I thought, oh,

50:48

I get really a

50:51

do it. It gets

50:52

rid of the ego, just

50:56

can can

50:57

just own us if

50:59

we don't have a little

51:02

self

51:03

support and and

51:05

weigh out? Because, you know, how do we take care

51:07

of it, otherwise, through addiction, addiction

51:09

behaviors, and

51:12

i'm false

51:15

identities. I think a lot of people take on false identities

51:17

because if you had if you hold

51:19

onto it and you don't look at it, you're

51:21

kinda telling yourself it's true

51:24

and then you script out your identity and

51:27

things compound, you know, play

51:29

out. I'm not hurt. Mhmm.

51:31

You know, and

51:34

And that

51:34

is just untrue. So now

51:37

we're just we're

51:39

where we're living something

51:40

that's not true. That's why

51:43

I think sharing

51:46

is

51:46

so important, you know, having

51:49

someone, you know, first with yourself,

51:51

then having

51:51

someone you can you

51:54

can share with, which is what

51:56

you spoke to when

51:59

you mentioned therapy. someone

52:01

that understands or

52:04

the twelve

52:05

step program

52:08

so much. people share chains and people they trust,

52:10

and there's, you

52:12

know, a good friend.

52:15

Mhmm. Absolutely.

52:17

Yeah. I mean,

52:17

I feel like, you

52:20

know, almost

52:20

you're almost reminding people

52:22

people have their own of their

52:24

own you know, God given

52:26

rights, birth given rights

52:29

to just exist without

52:31

the stories or without the conditioning,

52:33

without the stories. You told yourself without

52:35

or somebody else told you, and

52:37

always continue to happen. It's just that

52:39

that there's no attachment to

52:41

them. Mhmm. They don't hold

52:43

the power. You've questioned them and

52:46

they're not what you thought they were.

52:48

Mhmm. That

52:50

person isn't who you.

52:52

thought them, you know, we believe them

52:55

to be. They're not just that --

52:57

Mhmm.

52:59

-- much more.

53:01

people

53:01

are everything. They're

53:04

they're kind. They're not. They're

53:08

they're

53:08

their trouble,

53:10

they're happy. I mean, we're

53:16

you know, there's no one that

53:19

isn't like us. Mhmm. One

53:22

thing

53:23

that came to mind

53:24

came to mind just picturing

53:27

when you do

53:28

get to the state of

53:30

non judgment, at least this is something

53:34

I found is that hard change gets a lot

53:36

easier as well, including

53:38

stuff that, like, maybe we've been denying

53:41

don't We think we don't want. You know? Like,

53:44

accepting this person doesn't

53:46

treat me well. I don't wanna be with this

53:48

person. And

53:50

when we resist that or

53:51

when we are in

53:53

our mind arguing

53:56

with reality, and saying, like, they should be doing this. They should be like, when we get

53:58

into that controlling

53:59

state, when we can go

54:01

through the process of inquiry

54:04

or just letting go of the

54:06

judgment. I think what becomes

54:08

really wonderful is a lot of

54:10

healthy change opens

54:12

up because all of a sudden, you arrive at just what

54:14

is. And it's not so

54:16

bad, but just things

54:18

have to be done. It's

54:20

not bad.

54:21

just allows you to

54:23

correct maybe things

54:25

that aren't working in

54:27

your life. Yeah. which

54:29

I think is so profound.

54:31

Yeah. I

54:33

and wanted

54:35

to ask

54:38

you about when it

54:40

comes to feelings of

54:44

grief. Do you feel that this work can

54:46

still work for

54:48

people or Oh,

54:48

jeez. Yeah. It's

54:51

grief is is

54:54

you

54:57

you're

54:57

not here for me.

55:00

That's one of my children let's

55:02

say one of my children does

55:04

that's a big metaphor. I don't, you know, but I'll use it.

55:06

I'll say one of my children die.

55:08

And what is my grief about?

55:12

you know, they're not gonna be here for me. I

55:16

won't see

55:16

them again. Well, that's not true. I

55:18

see them in my mind's eye.

55:21

and just

55:21

like I have three children, grand I

55:24

have grandchildren, and I

55:26

see them in my mind's eye. You know,

55:30

they they and and I'm assuming they're all

55:32

lives. But let's say one of them

55:34

died and I don't have the news yet,

55:36

where is

55:38

my grief? But, you know, something

55:39

happens to one of one of them, let's

55:41

say, death, and they're not

55:43

gonna be

55:44

here

55:46

to

55:46

say, hi, mom. They're not gonna be here. To say, I love you,

55:48

mom. They're not gonna call me on the phone.

55:50

And say, mom, I need you to help me.

55:52

You know, all all the all

55:56

things that that we love.

55:58

So, you know,

55:59

grief is

55:59

some yeah. It's a it's a

56:02

big deal and a real thing.

56:04

It's just not about

56:07

that person

56:08

that dot,

56:10

you

56:11

know, isn't isn't. You know, the

56:13

thing

56:13

is, you know, about that

56:16

person that died

56:16

is I love that person being in.

56:20

That's it. I

56:20

love that

56:22

person

56:23

and and that can

56:25

never

56:25

die.

56:27

Mhmm.

56:29

That's why

56:32

the work

56:34

we're talking about is so important, whatever

56:37

way we find, whatever whatever our inner

56:39

work is. It's so

56:42

important

56:42

so important

56:46

on steps.

56:47

Yeah. Or

56:48

school. Or

56:51

school.

56:52

Has your as you have gone

56:54

through your career, have you Has

56:56

it changed for you since the beginning or has it stayed pretty much

56:59

the same? Just practicing

57:01

this with people

57:03

across the world. Could

57:05

you ask it differently? Have you

57:07

found

57:07

that how you feel

57:10

practicing this has deepened or

57:12

has altered

57:14

in the years that

57:17

you've done

57:18

it. You know, I

57:20

can't that

57:22

what has radically

57:24

shifted is my ability to

57:28

articulate

57:29

my

57:30

experience and

57:33

and, yeah,

57:34

my

57:35

experience and

57:39

But, you know, for an agoraphobic, you know, my life

57:41

changed, agoraphobic to all of

57:43

a sudden be flying all

57:45

over the world. by

57:49

invitation and

57:49

and working with thousands

57:52

and thousands

57:53

of people. And out

57:57

of a fear of a state of mind

57:59

and

57:59

tirelessly it seems.

58:01

It's, you know, that's quite a

58:03

shift from someone

58:04

that couldn't get out of

58:06

Yeah.

58:06

Oh, yeah. Absolutely. Yeah.

58:09

You were born forty

58:11

three, obviously.

58:13

Yeah. I mean, one thing

58:15

that is or I feel like started to happen

58:16

for me is I yeah.

58:18

My brain is just more

58:20

comfortable

58:22

thinking in this language. And then I'm

58:24

also I feel much more immediate

58:27

or connected with people.

58:31

whereas

58:31

previously, I feel like

58:33

I was too

58:34

trapped in the judgment, but

58:36

that's probably just, you know, a

58:39

good distance. Yeah. Exactly. self

58:41

protective thing. That distance is

58:44

is when I lost that

58:45

on the floor. man,

58:48

boy, the world

58:49

is in me.

58:53

and Well, I have

58:54

wanna be respectful of your time. I

58:56

feel like I could talk to you all day, but I

58:59

would love to remind

59:01

people your website

59:04

is

59:04

the work dot com. Is that correct? Byron Katie

59:06

dot com or the work dot com. Yeah.

59:08

And I have a nine day

59:11

school for the work. I didn't mention that to you, a nine

59:13

day school for the work coming up

59:15

in March.

59:16

And it's it is so

59:18

radical.

59:19

Amazing. And the worksheets, are

59:21

those available on your website as

59:23

well? Always free on the work dot com.

59:25

And there's a ninety nine cent app to

59:29

work app, and

59:31

it's so good.

59:32

It's so good. It's not

59:36

like You

59:37

know, it it's an old one,

59:39

but it just does the

59:41

job

59:41

so well. and beyond

59:43

the work dot com. And then I have a

59:46

a helpline that

59:49

there are

59:50

facilitators there that

59:53

they don't charge money

59:54

and they just support people just

59:56

to kind of, I call it, just

59:58

kind

59:59

of learn how to ride the bicycle.

59:59

You know, they help them fill

1:00:01

in the worksheet and and

1:00:03

get them familiar with the four

1:00:05

questions and turn Oh,

1:00:09

wow. Amazing. Yeah.

1:00:12

I mean, I can't imagine

1:00:14

how many people in the

1:00:16

world. you've

1:00:17

helped, but I'm sure it's exponentially growing. Howard Bauchner:

1:00:19

Well, one to the other, to the other,

1:00:21

it's a it's a

1:00:24

beautiful thing. like

1:00:26

you you found something so valuable. You just have to

1:00:28

you just have to share it.

1:00:31

Mhmm.

1:00:33

Well, I'm

1:00:34

so grateful to have spoken with you

1:00:36

and you're a beautiful person, and

1:00:39

I'm

1:00:39

I'm very grateful for

1:00:41

all your work. Well,

1:00:42

thank you for your transparency and

1:00:46

authenticity and the way that you get it

1:00:48

really

1:00:49

is extraordinary and I

1:00:52

appreciate you. Thank

1:00:53

you so much. You're in

1:00:55

this world, honey.

1:00:58

Well, I will be glowing

1:01:00

for the rest of the week. Thanks to you.

1:01:02

And I will put links to

1:01:05

all of your all the things

1:01:08

you mentioned in the show notes of the episode, and thank you so very much,

1:01:10

Byron Katie.

1:01:14

honey, I'm gonna call you friend. This has

1:01:16

just been just so sweeping

1:01:18

with you. Thank

1:01:21

you, friend. Alright. Well,

1:01:23

have a great rest every week. Well, I've got a call

1:01:25

you beloved. Oh, wow. I love

1:01:28

it.

1:01:29

Great. Goodbye.

1:02:04

Hi there. I am Sarah Jane Case,

1:02:05

and I'm the host of your new

1:02:08

favorite show, Enneagram

1:02:10

and Coffee. This

1:02:12

podcast is dedicated to discussing the beautiful and

1:02:14

hard parts of being human. We

1:02:16

use the tool of the Inogram,

1:02:18

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1:02:21

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1:02:24

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1:02:26

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1:02:28

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