0:01

What's up guys, welcome to the 145th

0:01

episode of the Get Down brought to you by

0:06

Digital Music Pool. My name is Kareem.

0:09

We have a very special guest today. We have the CEO and partner of 4AM,

0:11

Madison Back.

0:15

Madison, welcome. Thank you so much, I'm so excited.

0:20

And you got my name right, which is not

0:20

always, you know, the case, but appreciate

0:27

that. They just assume it's more complicated

0:28

than it is, like Bach, just Bach.

0:35

Man, I didn't even think to ask you beforehand. I just went for it.

0:38

Ha ha. Confidence for me, yeah.

0:42

I like it. This is a conversation we had talked about

0:42

having for a little while and I'm glad we

0:45

were able to get you. I think you're going to bring a really

0:46

unique perspective to the conversation.

0:51

We have a lot of DJs on here, but I think

0:51

bringing another business owner, someone

0:55

that books a lot of DJs and someone that

0:55

runs a business, which all you DJs

1:02

listening, you're also running businesses,

1:02

but what Madison does is a little

1:06

different. I guess our first question is what

1:07

initially drew into the nightlife

1:10

industry? Like why, why nightlife?

1:13

Yeah, I have no idea.

1:16

I'm still wondering how I got here.

1:20

But I think really it kind of started, I

1:20

mean, I went to NYU for undergrad.

1:27

And I think when you move to New York

1:27

City, you got to fall in love with

1:31

nightlife in some way.

1:33

And that is such a broad umbrella term for

1:33

what.

1:37

is happening here in this city. It can look like so many different things

1:39

to different people.

1:43

But I think that was sort of, you know,

1:43

just getting the taste of it when I was in

1:47

college, living here and being immersed in

1:47

sort of the culture was what really drew

1:54

me in. And I started doing some things along the

1:56

lines of like event planning, kind of in

2:02

nightlife, while I was at NYU.

2:06

throwing parties, stuff like that.

2:09

And as I was graduating from college, I

2:09

started doing some like front of house,

2:15

door, cashier jobs, those kinds of things

2:15

at some clubs in the city.

2:21

And that was kind of, I guess, the

2:21

beginning.

2:25

I also was super into sort of like the

2:25

dance music scene.

2:30

I guess it would be around like 2010 to

2:30

2014.

2:36

So just going to festivals, yes, the

2:36

nostalgic era.

2:42

So I guess it was just like a combination

2:42

of all those things.

2:45

And I've always been really like sort of

2:45

tuned into and passionate about pop

2:51

culture and entertainment and music.

2:54

So all those things kind of came together

2:54

in a nice way and nightlife kind of just

3:00

got its grip on me. nightlife around that time was, I don't

3:02

wanna say glamorized, but almost kind of

3:07

glamorized where like, it was constant,

3:07

New York City especially, and constant

3:11

when we went down to those smaller rooms

3:11

where it was like Tuesday you had like

3:16

three or four different parties in those small rooms. Like, thinking like Sweet 16 and places

3:18

like that.

3:22

Like, you had celebrities in there

3:22

constantly, and I feel like going out was

3:27

like a thing for everybody. It was like everybody got together

3:31

You did the pregame thing, you got all

3:31

dressed up and you worried about if you

3:35

were gonna get past the door and it was

3:35

like, okay, well now I got past the door

3:38

and I've been going to this party but now

3:38

I wanna work for this party, right?

3:42

I wanna do the door, I wanna take the

3:42

money or whatever it might be, right?

3:46

And I just feel like so many people that

3:46

have made a career out of Nightlife and

3:52

are currently in Nightlife still that were

3:52

a part of that, you look back on it and

3:57

you remember what kind of dro- drove you into it.

4:00

It was all that like glam that went along

4:00

with it.

4:03

Yeah, totally. And I...

4:06

Yes. Yeah.

4:08

I mean, when I was a freshman in college,

4:08

so 18, doing the like welcome week thing,

4:14

which I don't even know if they're really

4:14

like doing that anymore, to the level that

4:19

it was like at that time. I mean, it was just insane.

4:22

Like you would go out every single night

4:22

for like eight to 10 nights straight at

4:28

these like 18 plus, you know, that was

4:28

like your foray into it.

4:33

where they would do a buyout of the venue

4:33

and it was just kinda like chaos with

4:39

teenagers running around. But that was like, I remember thinking

4:40

like, oh my God, there's just like so many

4:46

different clubs. You're so overwhelmed when you first get

4:47

to the city, just like kind of trying to

4:50

wrap your arms around it. And I think it's a little different now.

4:55

I think it's less about the room and more

4:55

about who's throwing the party.

5:03

Um, so in a way I, I kind of like feel for

5:03

the younger generation because I feel like

5:09

it's a little bit harder in some ways to

5:09

like actually navigate.

5:15

Um, whereas like there were like Facebook

5:15

events with parties and let, you know, it

5:20

was just kind of like a different,

5:20

different era.

5:23

Yeah. Yeah, I think there's a real shift that

5:25

we're seeing in nightlife, and you kind of

5:29

brought it up, but I think more

5:29

experience.

5:32

People are going for the Drake nights or

5:32

the John Summit nights and less of the

5:38

come to this venue because we always throw

5:38

a good party kind of thing.

5:41

And like you said, or there's a certain

5:41

promoter or a certain company that puts on

5:44

these events, that always puts on really

5:44

event, really good events.

5:48

And I think part of that is because I feel

5:48

like there's a lot less rooms that are

5:52

throwing parties now also. there's less people going out, less

5:55

competition for where to go.

5:58

It's like... Yeah, competition I think is like the key

6:00

word because when I look back to like, you

6:05

know, I guess at this point, it's like,

6:05

you know, 10 years ago, a little bit more,

6:09

there were just so many spots like and

6:09

they were all really like pushing each

6:16

other to compete on a pretty high level,

6:16

which I, you know, talk about like

6:20

business, that's like an essential like

6:20

you want to have competition, it keeps

6:24

everybody on their toes. But um, yeah, I think it's just like.

6:29

a little bit more behind the scenes, a

6:29

little bit more underground now.

6:32

There's, I think there's also just like a

6:32

cultural shift with going out in general.

6:37

That has really like transformed the

6:37

entire landscape in the last like couple

6:42

of years post pandemic. So all very interesting things, but New

6:44

York City nightlife is never gonna go

6:49

away. So, you know, I've been seeing there's,

6:50

you know, new rooms opening, new parties

6:55

starting and. you can kind of feel that hunger picking

6:56

up back again.

7:01

I feel like New York City is in a better

7:01

place for nightlife than it's been in a

7:05

while. I know the rates have kind of come up a

7:05

bit in certain, especially some of the

7:09

high-end venues. We're seeing some better venues and some

7:11

more high-end venues in Manhattan pop up

7:15

where for a couple of years, it was sort

7:15

of a wasteland and where everything was

7:18

really pushed to Brooklyn and even Queens.

7:23

So yeah, what are you seeing in New York

7:23

and what do you think the next thing for

7:27

New York nightlife is gonna be? Yeah, I mean, I think you're dead on.

7:34

I think like it was just such a like task

7:34

to go out in Manhattan in most recent

7:42

previous years. And if you couldn't get yourself out to

7:44

Brooklyn, you were sort of just not going

7:49

out. So I'm very happy that there's like just

7:51

like more action in general in Manhattan.

7:59

I don't know, I think that there's a lot

7:59

of push, I feel.

8:06

Maybe it's just because of my age and

8:06

demographic and what I'm around and

8:10

seeing, but I think there's a big push

8:10

coming from the millennial generation to

8:17

reimagine what going out looks like.

8:20

I've talked for a long time with different

8:20

stakeholders in the community about doing

8:25

these before midnight.

8:27

style parties and I noticed Joyface

8:27

launched a party like that, obviously

8:32

that's in Brooklyn, but you know that kind

8:32

of thing I think is really great.

8:37

It's like that kind of outside the box

8:37

thinking that's gonna keep the energy and

8:43

momentum alive. Obviously still gonna have those like late

8:45

night parties, that's what New York City

8:50

is like all about, but you know 4am we

8:50

kind of have to stick to.

8:57

believing in that mission, but I think

8:57

that's something really cool that I've

9:01

seen sort of take off and evolve.

9:03

I think we're getting much more back into

9:03

like the production of it all.

9:10

Like I think when you're looking at like

9:10

what parties are doing well or what's

9:15

really interesting, interesting people,

9:15

it's sort of like, what are they going to

9:19

get out of a night out? Like, is it going to be worth it for them

9:20

to like?

9:23

leave the couch or whatever it is that

9:23

they were doing or endure a hangover or

9:28

whatever. So I've been really excited to see that

9:29

kind of evolve like at The Stranger.

9:36

I'm trying to think like, you know, what

9:36

else has been standing out?

9:39

I love, you know, I'm excited this weekend

9:39

we have one of my clients, Mia Moretti has

9:44

a show at hearsay, which super excited to

9:44

check the room out.

9:48

I haven't been yet. Obviously, they've been booking like

9:51

a really, really strong showing of DJs.

9:56

And that's in Manhattan, which a few years

9:56

ago, you'd never think of that.

10:00

It would definitely be a Brooklyn party. So I think it's good when all of the

10:02

boroughs are sort of functioning on a 10,

10:09

kind of going back to that idea of

10:09

competition.

10:11

Everyone's just sort of being motivated by

10:11

each other.

10:14

So I think that's a positive thing. Yeah.

10:17

I want to rewind here for a second because

10:17

for some of our listeners who don't know

10:22

exactly what you do as a CEO at 4AM, maybe

10:22

let's give a little insight into what your

10:28

day to day maybe looks like and then we

10:28

can kind of get into what impact that you

10:34

want to bring to the industry as someone

10:34

in your position.

10:38

For sure. So at 4AM, I guess like kind of just quick

10:39

overview, we're an artist management

10:46

company. We represent primarily DJs, DJ producers,

10:47

and we also just by nature of that work,

10:56

find ourselves often consulting for and

10:56

assisting different venues or different

11:01

event producers with anything music

11:01

entertainment related for their...

11:06

concept, project, venue, party, et cetera.

11:10

So in those capacities, sometimes we'll

11:10

work with other talent.

11:15

We love working with you guys and your

11:15

team and other partners on production side

11:21

and things like that, just to sort of work

11:21

together to achieve the common goal of

11:26

having an amazing event experience party

11:26

outcome.

11:31

And obviously the three of us know how

11:31

music is like.

11:35

the make or break of that.

11:39

So that's sort of the ethos of what we do.

11:42

And our mission with our DJ clients is

11:42

really to help them grow and evolve as

11:49

artists or as DJs or whichever kind of

11:49

path they're taking through their career

11:56

in music. And bring them to either bigger audiences.

12:03

grow a fan base that's like more tapped in

12:03

and dialed into, you know, who they are

12:07

and their brand. And we support them in kind of any and all

12:09

ways of what that might look like based on

12:14

what their objectives are. It's very kind of like custom hands on.

12:19

We're super boutique in nature.

12:23

And I have an amazing team.

12:25

My partner is Trachi.

12:29

Obviously legendary DJ with so much

12:29

knowledge and expertise.

12:34

We have a really amazing dynamic together

12:34

because I obviously am not a DJ, though

12:38

we've talked about it many times.

12:42

I get that like, you know, comment from

12:42

everybody pretty much nonstop.

12:47

But I think it's really great to have kind

12:47

of this counterbalance where I can come at

12:53

things from this like. very operational, organizational

12:55

perspective, business perspective, which

13:00

he also is very business-minded as well,

13:00

especially for a creative person.

13:06

And he can kind of bring the perspective

13:06

of somebody who is in the artist position.

13:11

So we kind of have this like well-rounded

13:11

kind of approach toward our management

13:16

style, which has been super helpful for me

13:16

in my growth in doing this.

13:24

But yeah, so we have DJ clients and pretty

13:24

much my day to day.

13:30

It looks like a lot of different things,

13:30

because as a business owner, as you guys

13:33

know very well, you're being pulled into a

13:33

million different directions.

13:38

Sometimes you've done a 12-hour day, and

13:38

you're like, what did I get done today?

13:44

What have I been doing all day? Sometimes you have those days, which I

13:46

know you can relate.

13:50

But anything from like,

13:52

financial accounting type stuff to, you

13:52

know, we have team members who work behind

13:57

the scenes with us. So helping them, helping them cultivate

13:58

their own career paths in this industry is

14:04

kind of its own thing. I'm on the phone a lot with whether it's

14:07

like our artists specifically talking

14:11

about, you know, strategic moves or

14:11

projects that they're working on, music

14:15

they're working on, how we're gonna

14:15

release it, like all that kind of stuff.

14:20

On the phone and in meetings. on site over zoom with different kinds of

14:22

clients.

14:25

So it's sort of just a revolving door of

14:25

chaos, but it's like, no single day looks

14:31

the same. And I think that that's something that

14:32

even as a creature who like loves habit

14:37

and routine, I've come to really deeply

14:37

love and appreciate about this job.

14:43

You know, I think for all of us, it's

14:43

really, really amazing that we've been

14:48

able to make careers out of

14:51

kind of like dreaming something up and

14:51

like crafting our own version of whatever

14:56

that looks like. So I really hold that very closely to my

14:57

heart.

15:02

It's an honor to be able to do what we do.

15:05

So that's kind of like high level like

15:05

what it looks like.

15:10

Just a little bit of everything, just as

15:10

we all do.

15:12

Ha ha ha. I think something that really stood out

15:15

when we first had some conversations and

15:20

we jumped on a Zoom and kind of just got

15:20

to know what we each of us did and stuff

15:23

like that. You know, there was a we were talking

15:25

really high level things, empowering DJs

15:29

and coaching DJs and really helping move

15:29

this industry forward.

15:33

I think a lot of times, you know, DJs and

15:33

musicians and nightlife people, we get

15:38

negatively stereotyped a lot, right?

15:41

And I think a lot of what we put out into the world with the

15:43

podcast and everything else we do.

15:45

And then also a lot of things that you

15:45

were doing, especially during the

15:48

pandemic, you were really outspoken and

15:48

forward in helping DJs get grants, finding

15:55

work for DJs, also talking about medical

15:55

and health benefits and different things

16:01

like that. So I really appreciate the fact that

16:01

you're, and 4AM and you and Scott are

16:06

really trying to push DJ, what DJing is

16:06

and what DJ businesses can be forward.

16:12

So, Why is that important for you?

16:15

Yeah, I think that partly comes from me

16:15

not personally being a DJ or like

16:21

creative. I'm like creative adjacent.

16:25

I think like having one foot in the world

16:25

of this like absolute mayhem chaos that is

16:30

like nightlife DJing etc and one foot in

16:30

the rest of the world has kind of helped

16:36

me look at what's going on in our industry

16:36

and kind of just constantly have this

16:40

voice in my head of like well why not

16:43

us, like why not, you know, my team, I

16:43

know how hard all these people work and

16:49

like why, you know, why should they not

16:49

have something that's a safety net for

16:54

them in the future, retirement plan,

16:54

health insurance benefits, and when the

16:59

pandemic happened, obviously that was like

16:59

a glaring spotlight like onto that, not

17:04

just DJs, but like all freelancers, um,

17:04

and that was where I started to kind of

17:09

get into like some advocacy work because

17:13

I knew, shout out to Raphael Espinel, who

17:13

he actually was a former city council

17:19

member in New York City who was a huge

17:19

part of creating the Office of Nightlife

17:25

and the Nightmare Position. And he moved on to becoming the president,

17:28

I believe is his title, of the Freelancers

17:34

Union, which is like a cross-country

17:34

organization.

17:39

I believe it's like the biggest union or

17:39

the second biggest union to teachers.

17:44

And I kind of leaned on him a lot and

17:44

collaborated with him in the early days of

17:50

the pandemic because I just saw like the

17:50

panic kind of take over everyone kind of

17:56

like feeling like they were about to get

17:56

left behind.

17:58

Like, you know, people who had salary jobs

17:58

getting

18:03

unemployment and like, you know, all these

18:03

different things that were going on and

18:06

there was a lot of fear and panic.

18:10

And I think I just felt very strongly

18:10

like, you know what, like we've got to

18:15

figure something out here and fast for

18:15

everybody and there's got to be a way and

18:19

there was and there are and I think we're

18:19

going to continue to sort of figure those

18:24

things out. Obviously, like, you know, there is a very

18:25

distinct difference between being somebody

18:31

who gets a salary position working for a

18:32

company or corporation, and those come

18:37

with different kinds of things. There's an entirely different structure

18:38

for that.

18:41

We really are trying to work toward a

18:41

place of figuring out how would you

18:46

potentially offer like some sort of health

18:46

benefit, some sort of something to the

18:53

people that we represent without having to

18:53

then just kind of completely change how

18:59

they normally operate, which... Like the freedom of operating the way you

19:00

operate as a freelancer, as an independent

19:04

contractor is important when you're in our

19:04

line of work.

19:08

Um, but how do we like push for more?

19:11

I think it's just like the ongoing

19:11

conversation there.

19:13

Freelancers union doing amazing stuff.

19:16

If you're a DJ and you don't know about

19:16

them, go check them out because even if

19:21

you're doing everything by yourself, like

19:21

they have ways to help you get better

19:25

deals on health insurance plans and like

19:25

all kinds of other things.

19:29

So. strongly suggest looking into them as a

19:29

resource.

19:33

But yeah, for us, like I think I've

19:33

started to sort of open up to other ways

19:39

of what does that look like to like kind

19:39

of think bigger picture for talent and

19:44

something that a lot of my DJs hear about

19:44

from me all the time is just this idea of

19:50

like legacy planning. Like I really wanna make sure I, you know,

19:51

I've been doing this for

19:57

about 10 years now, 11 years.

19:59

And as such, some of the clients that I

19:59

have are clients that I had from the very

20:04

beginning, meaning they are 10 to 11 years

20:04

older now than they were when we started

20:09

working together. And it's really important to me to make

20:11

sure that they are able to transition out

20:20

of DJing whenever that time comes in...

20:23

a very meaningful way where they can still

20:23

feel if they want to connected to DJing

20:29

and the culture, a way that they can kind

20:29

of continue to benefit from everything

20:35

that they built. And you know, I think you said at the

20:35

beginning of the podcast, they are

20:39

businesses of their own businesses of one.

20:42

So, you know, I kind of think about it in

20:42

the same way as like a regular business or

20:47

business owner might think about their

20:47

exit strategy, whether that's

20:51

because they want to retire or something

20:51

else.

20:54

So that's a very broad way of putting it,

20:54

but I think it really depends on each

20:59

individual person what that might look

20:59

like.

21:02

But that's something that is kind of

21:02

always top of mind for me because I don't

21:06

want someone to just sort of, for all of

21:06

it to sort of like fall to the wayside

21:11

when they either choose to stop DJing or

21:11

less in the amount they're DJing or it's

21:17

chosen for them because of some sort of

21:17

extenuating circumstance.

21:20

So I guess to just answer your original

21:22

question, I think it's just, I've always

21:25

been sort of like a planner and like a big

21:25

picture thinker.

21:31

And I think, you know, it gets lost in the

21:31

sauce, like these kinds of topics for DJs

21:36

because depending on where you're at in

21:36

your career, you're so focused on just

21:40

like locking in the next gig or, you know,

21:40

like kind of, it's very, you can get lost

21:46

like in the day. So, trying to add a little bit.

21:50

to everybody in thinking of those things.

21:53

It's definitely something we've talked

21:53

about on this podcast numerous times to,

21:57

you know, you do have to think about what

21:57

happens when, when that day comes when you

22:01

do play your last nightlife gig and you

22:01

kind of age, you know, cause we're going

22:04

to age out, right? It happens. Um, I think cream and I is like the older

22:06

statesman of our group, obviously, like

22:11

we've talked about this time and again for

22:11

the last five years and six years and like

22:16

the year has come that we've talked about

22:16

over and over again, like where we put

22:20

like a timeline on what, you know,

22:23

I don't want to be doing this, and this

22:23

when I'm X amount of years old.

22:27

I don't want to say too much, but you have

22:27

to start to get the wheels turning in

22:34

thinking about post-DJ life. I think it's a great point to make where

22:36

you're open to talking to your clients and

22:43

your artists about having those

22:43

conversations and what those next steps

22:48

could be. There are a million different jobs in...

22:51

Whether it be nightlife, whether it be

22:51

music, whatever it might be, there's a

22:54

million different things you can do and

22:54

you're right when you're thinking day to

22:58

day about what's my next gig and where's

22:58

my next check coming from, it's like

23:02

thinking five years down the road is a

23:02

little, it can be overwhelming.

23:06

Yeah, and I think like the most important

23:06

thing I would just say to anyone is like,

23:11

just start thinking about it in not the

23:11

way of like, oh, I'm getting out of the

23:16

game or like, you know, completely like

23:16

you, it doesn't need to be the scary

23:19

thing. It can look a lot of different ways for a

23:20

lot of different people, as you pointed

23:23

out. And for me, in terms of thinking of like

23:24

this from like a business sense, I think I

23:30

just have noticed, you know, there's a

23:30

whole discourse and

23:35

for the rest of time about, you know,

23:35

between kind of like the older generation

23:39

who's obviously more experienced, who's

23:39

been doing this for a while, that came up

23:43

during a certain era and kind of like the

23:43

younger new kids like on the block.

23:47

And, you know, there's always that debate

23:47

over like how things are being done now,

23:52

like the new way. And I think I just feel really strongly

23:55

there's such an opportunity for like

23:59

mentorship, which I know we've talked

23:59

about before too.

24:01

Like I... don't want these like amazing gems of like

24:03

skill and experience that the DJs that

24:10

are, you know, in their mid-30s and up

24:10

that we all know and love, like I don't

24:16

want that to get lost like in this sort of

24:16

transition.

24:21

And I think there are a lot of incredible

24:21

young DJs who are willing to learn from

24:27

that generation that do have a lot of like

24:27

reverence and respect.

24:30

from the more experienced DJs, the veteran

24:30

DJs.

24:33

So I think like finding a way to help be a

24:33

part of facilitating bridging that gap is

24:39

super important. So that's something we will always be down

24:41

for.

24:44

We're doing it on like a, you know, in our

24:44

own kind of like micro way with some of

24:48

the DJs that we have on our roster, you

24:48

know, who are like 22, 23, versus some of,

24:55

you know, the other guys who have been

24:55

DJing for 10, 15, 20 years.

24:58

But... I think just kind of like having that sort

24:59

of community is really important and only

25:05

good things can come from it. Yeah, I think that's one great thing for

25:07

DJs about being a part of an agency or a

25:12

DJ group or just some sort of a collective

25:12

is, those young DJs can use the older DJs

25:18

as far as following them, watching them

25:18

DJ, asking them questions, asking them how

25:22

to negotiate a deal that an owner might

25:22

come to them.

25:26

So I think that mentorship is something

25:26

that is really important to all three of

25:29

us, obviously, but something, we talk to

25:29

all of our DJs individually, but sometimes

25:34

it's more important for a younger DJ to latch on to one of our

25:36

older DJs and not me or Gary, you know?

25:40

Like someone outside of either of us and

25:40

just have that mentor.

25:45

And it's something we really push our

25:45

older DJs to try and embrace, which is

25:50

find one of those younger guys or girls

25:50

and give back to them, you know?

25:53

Like how can you help them? How can you help them get to the next

25:54

level?

25:57

You know, use your experience, use your

25:57

knowledge.

25:59

I think that's so important. yeah, and by the way, like, there's a

26:01

benefit to them as well.

26:05

Like, it works both ways. Like, the younger DJs also have something

26:06

to offer them.

26:09

Like, you know, they, first of all,

26:09

they're younger, and not to stereotype,

26:14

but like, you know, they haven't been

26:14

putting this hours into like, you know,

26:21

the game yet, the way that DJs have been

26:21

doing it for 10, 20 years.

26:26

So they have like... the thirst and the hunger and the stamina

26:27

to like go out maybe seven nights a week

26:32

and like, you know, like have their finger

26:32

on the pulse of like, who's on the come up

26:36

musically, et cetera, new venue and new

26:36

promoter groups.

26:39

So like, I think it's a really like kind

26:39

of symbiotic relationship.

26:44

So I'm totally with you on that. Like I highly encourage it.

26:47

It's a great way to like stay on top of

26:47

your toes and like stay fresh and stay

26:53

relevant. Obviously you can find ways to do that on

26:54

your own.

26:57

as well, but I think it's important kind

26:57

of who you surround yourself with.

27:00

And if you've, you know, spot somebody out

27:00

there that you think is talented, offer

27:06

them, you know, a hand up. I learned so much from the young guys and

27:09

girls on our team, like especially about

27:13

what's popular in music for that 21 to

27:13

like 25 year old.

27:17

Like that's a huge deal for me, because

27:17

it's a different era.

27:21

I didn't live through that, you know, and

27:21

I'll hear one of our younger, younger DJs

27:25

play something that I would never play in

27:25

a million years and the crowd goes crazy.

27:29

I'm like, wow, I need to work this into my

27:29

head somehow.

27:32

Yeah, it's like, and you can't, I mean,

27:32

you can, you can do like all the TikTok

27:38

R&D as possible, but like, you know, our

27:38

algorithms are still set to us.

27:43

So yeah, I think it helps a lot.

27:50

The young guys and girls are funny to me,

27:50

but they're just, being naive and just

27:55

hungry, like you said, it gets them a long

27:55

way.

27:58

So it's interesting to see for sure.

28:01

So something else I wanna talk about, I

28:01

think, obviously we talked about the

28:06

negative stereotypes a little bit about

28:06

our business, and what are some of the

28:12

ways that we can teach some of these

28:12

younger DJs to...

28:15

be more professional and act more as a

28:15

business instead of just this one-off DJ.

28:20

So I think a lot of times, you know, we

28:20

came from this background of corporate

28:25

life and I try to bring some of that into

28:25

what we do as DJs and that always helped

28:29

me. But many of the young DJs don't have that.

28:31

They're coming right out of school or

28:31

they're coming from retail or another line

28:35

of work and they're trying to get into this. So what are some important things as far

28:37

as professionalism and sort of acting as a

28:42

business for the younger DJs?

28:44

Yeah, I think this advice also applies to

28:44

like older DJs as well, but because I

28:51

don't know that everyone has gotten this

28:51

memo, but like it has gone such a long way

28:56

if you can just be, I don't know how else

28:56

to say this, but if you could just be like

29:01

normal and nice.

29:04

I don't know if it's asking too much, but.

29:07

Um, no, like I, I really think like

29:07

everything in life and particularly our

29:13

business comes down to relationships.

29:16

And the more you can kind of pour into the

29:16

right relationships, and I guess you will

29:25

have to figure out in your own way, what

29:25

is the right relationship based on, you

29:29

know, being very clear with yourself about

29:29

what you want in your career, what you

29:33

want in your life, et cetera. Um, and the more you're.

29:36

in tune with that, you'll be able to very

29:36

quickly identify what's the right kind of

29:40

relationship, what's not in business and

29:40

otherwise.

29:44

But I think just doing right by people,

29:44

being normal, don't be a diva, don't be

29:51

also so timid that you can't just have a

29:51

cool chill rapport with someone.

29:59

I think... that is worth so, so much.

30:03

People really just like, you have to zoom

30:03

out and remember that at the end of the

30:07

day, like whether you're asking for like a

30:07

booking or something else, like you're,

30:13

it's all about leverage and you're asking

30:13

something of someone else that they have

30:18

to give to you. And it probably also impacts their ability

30:19

to do their job in one way or another.

30:25

Make it easy for them. Don't...

30:27

make it a stressful experience, don't do

30:27

something like if you do get the gig or

30:33

whatever it is that you're trying to, you

30:33

know, collaborate on, like just think

30:38

about how it's going to affect the other

30:38

people who have maybe stuck their neck out

30:41

for you and like really like hold yourself

30:41

in high regard to that.

30:46

Um, it sounds like so simple, I think when

30:46

we talk about it, but then maybe when

30:53

you're thrown into the environment and

30:53

like, again, we're talking about

30:56

A lot of times like these like crazy

30:56

parties, nightclubs, etc.

31:00

Stuff happens. So it maybe isn't as easy as I'm making it

31:01

out to be.

31:06

But I think just try your best to like

31:06

keep that at the top of your mind of just

31:12

be nice, treat every single person in a

31:12

venue, for example, with kindness and care

31:19

from like regardless of like who they are,

31:19

whether they're a patron or someone

31:23

working, they're the bouncer, they're the

31:23

barb ass.

31:26

or the GM, like everybody should be

31:26

treated like gold.

31:30

It's a hard industry, like we should all

31:30

be empathetic.

31:36

And I think just like don't be a diva.

31:38

That's my advice.

31:42

And you really have to like know where you

31:42

stand in things.

31:46

I think it's easy to kind of get like a

31:46

big head sometimes, but...

31:53

that turns people off like crazy.

31:56

And I've seen people really screw up a lot

31:56

of opportunities, block a lot of bags by

32:03

just not being self-aware and being a

32:03

little short-sighted in how they treat

32:09

people. To me, that's probably like the number one

32:11

thing that I would say to anybody.

32:17

But it really, it's so important.

32:20

Like I, and you might not realize

32:23

is the bags that you're blocking. That's the thing.

32:26

How do you know? Unless you literally get fired from a

32:27

project or a venue or something, you might

32:34

not realize it. But for people like me sitting in the

32:35

manager seat from our perspective, we can

32:41

see so many opportunities. And there may be things about what you are

32:42

currently doing or did in the past that

32:49

make it an impossibility.

32:53

you know, you kind of just cut off a whole

32:53

possible trajectory you could have gone

32:57

on. So that is my advice.

33:02

so many different scenarios running

33:02

through my head right now.

33:06

Yeah, same. persistent, but not annoying.

33:09

That's always a good one. Don't be annoying.

33:12

I just have to say, there will be really

33:12

persistent and annoying people who get

33:18

gigs and you'll see them getting bookings.

33:20

You have to remember that even if that's

33:20

working for them right now, word is

33:29

spreading and feelings are contagious

33:29

about that behavior.

33:34

And it's a short term, short lived thing.

33:38

Like, That's not how you wanna get your success.

33:42

Even if it takes a little more patience

33:42

and time, just be chill.

33:47

Obviously, we all wanna follow up, and

33:47

that's okay to an extent, I think you were

33:53

alluding to, but just don't be annoying.

33:58

There is a fine line, and keep it real

33:58

with people.

34:02

One of the things that always annoys me

34:02

personally is, now this is gonna turn into

34:07

a venting session, but. Um, I think like just keep it real and be

34:09

direct because time is its own currency

34:18

and like no one likes to feel like you're

34:18

kind of like working them.

34:22

Like you know like you know if you want

34:22

something just ask about it I think is

34:28

probably my other piece of advice. Don't try to like butter someone up or

34:29

like you know fame that you're like

34:36

interest in something like we're all doing

34:36

business, like it's okay, just cut to the

34:41

chase. And that's something that I try to ask,

34:42

not everybody is like this, but I try to

34:46

ask that of clients and other kinds of

34:46

people that I'm working with if I'm

34:51

pitching a certain DJ to a promoter or a

34:51

venue operator.

34:56

I really try to create that space.

35:00

This is why it's important to have a

35:00

manager, I think, also, eventually.

35:06

you want to be able to get honest feedback

35:06

from folks in a safe and professional

35:12

appropriate way. And people are scared to do that

35:14

sometimes.

35:16

I think a lot of us worry about hurting

35:16

people's feelings or whatever it may be.

35:22

I try as much as I can to cut to the

35:22

middle of, please give me your honest

35:26

feedback about this artist or where

35:26

they're at or if you think they're a fit

35:30

because that'll only help.

35:32

me and my artist, you know, with that

35:32

information.

35:37

And I can then deliver in a way that maybe

35:37

is a little more conducive to that person

35:41

and their feelings. But I think that's also super important.

35:46

Yeah, our job is placing the right talent

35:46

in the right venue.

35:48

And if you don't have that feedback, then

35:48

we're going to maybe keep putting the

35:52

wrong person in a venue that would hurt

35:52

our greater relationship.

35:55

Whereas if that feedback came immediately,

35:55

you know, maybe you just don't book that

35:59

person or you book someone else that they

35:59

like more.

36:01

And it, it just, it's a, it's better for

36:01

everyone involved with that feedback.

36:05

And, you know, Gary and I have tried to do

36:05

a better job with good or bad feedback

36:10

that we get over the weekend with a DJ,

36:10

Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday, like we have

36:14

to, maybe it's a maybe it's a quick voice note or a convo

36:15

or a video that we send them, but, you

36:20

know, passing that information along and

36:20

kind of ripping the bandaid, whether it's

36:23

good or bad is super important for the

36:23

growth of everybody, you know, and also

36:28

the, you know, the success of the

36:28

relationship with the venue.

36:33

I'm going to piggyback on this real quick. And I don't like a little bit of advice to

36:35

any DJs that are listening, listening.

36:38

And it's, it's be coachable too, right?

36:41

Be, be able to take the harsh criticism

36:41

because it's going to, you always get that

36:46

was a dope set. That was the best set I've ever heard.

36:49

You get that like 90% of the time or 95%

36:49

of the time, but you have to be willing to

36:55

know that, Hey, maybe I sucked tonight.

36:57

You know, it doesn't mean I'm a bad DJ,

36:57

but maybe I just had an off night or

37:01

I was thinking about something else and be

37:01

able to recognize that, hey, not

37:06

everybody's perfect, right? And you take the criticism and you learn

37:07

from it.

37:11

I think that's such an important thing

37:11

that sometimes gets overlooked with the

37:14

ego and everything that comes with it.

37:16

Because confidence, you need confidence to

37:16

be a great DJ, right?

37:19

And you need to stand up there and put

37:19

yourself out there like that.

37:22

It takes a lot of confidence. So it's okay to be confident, but also be

37:23

able to take it when it comes.

37:30

Yeah, I think that's super important

37:30

advice, because also a lot of people will

37:35

say they want feedback, but like they're

37:35

maybe not ready for it.

37:39

And it is tough. Like I really do feel for DJs in this way.

37:44

You kind of have to be everything all at

37:44

once.

37:47

Like you have to have a face of confidence

37:47

and like bring it while also maybe feeling

37:53

really insecure, wanting to be coachable,

37:53

wanting the feedback.

37:57

Like you have, you kind of have to like

37:57

manage all those things at once, which is

38:00

really, really hard. Um, and I think what you said about, you

38:01

know, just sometimes you have an off night

38:06

or whatever, like it's so true.

38:08

Like we're human beings. We're not robots.

38:11

Like that is a real thing.

38:13

And I think if you can just like

38:13

acknowledge and accept that it'll make you

38:17

more resilient because the worst thing

38:17

that could happen is you have a bad night.

38:22

Then you're like dwelling in it. And then it kind of creates this domino

38:24

effect.

38:26

Like. Just take that pressure off of yourself.

38:29

You are allowed a bad night. It sucks.

38:32

Like it might have certain short-term

38:32

ramifications in the long run.

38:36

It's not gonna matter. But it will matter the more that you sort

38:39

of like prolong staying in that space.

38:44

So try to just like accept it and move

38:44

past it.

38:49

That's the advice I always give. Use it as motivation for the next time

38:50

you're in front of that person who gave

38:53

you the negative feedback. Think about it and do the extra prep,

38:55

right?

38:58

Do your extra homework, practice a little

38:58

more, or whatever you have to do to really

39:02

prepare for the next time you're in front

39:02

of that person or in that venue and use it

39:05

as motivation to crush the next set, you

39:05

know?

39:08

And prove that person wrong or show them

39:08

who you really are as a DJ.

39:12

I think that's so important. Yeah, and the right person, like booker,

39:14

whoever it is, like who is smart, is going

39:21

to see that and say, wow, that is someone

39:21

that can take feedback.

39:26

That is somebody that's capable of

39:26

adapting and evolving.

39:29

I would much rather work with that person

39:29

than somebody who maybe like does well

39:34

consistently, but like, could they really

39:34

deal with a curve ball?

39:37

Like, I don't know. if shit hits the fan and I need to have

39:38

them change gears, like will they be

39:43

receptive? So the right kind of like decision maker,

39:44

whoever it is, the venue owner, whatever,

39:49

they will, if they're good at what they

39:49

do, they will recognize that and like

39:53

really value that. Gary's being coachable.

39:57

It's important to be coachable when you're

39:57

in the booth too.

40:00

Like nobody's big enough to not do

40:00

something that someone in the venue is

40:05

asking you to do. Like, sorry guys.

40:07

I have opinions about this also.

40:10

I agree, but I've seen the damage that

40:10

like, when somebody takes that like too

40:18

far, I've seen the damage that it can do

40:18

to a DJ.

40:23

Like I think there's a lot to say here,

40:23

but something that I am also always

40:28

telling our DJs is like, you are the

40:28

expert, like be coachable, but like you're

40:34

also the expert. And you need to be able to kind of

40:36

navigate that very sensitively with like,

40:41

you know, if it's the GM or whoever, um,

40:41

from the venue, because we're like, if

40:46

you're playing a private event and it's,

40:46

it could be like a private client, um,

40:50

because you're not, I, this is such a

40:50

played out like phrase, but like, you

40:56

really are not a jukebox, like they are

40:56

hiring you at least at like our level and

41:00

beyond, like when they are hiring.

41:03

one of our DJs, you guys, et cetera, it's

41:03

to do more than be a Spotify playlist.

41:09

So like respectfully, taking your feedback

41:09

into consideration, but also respectfully,

41:17

let me do my thing. And if it doesn't work, we'll figure it

41:19

out, I'll pivot.

41:22

But just like, I think sometimes people

41:22

take it a little too far.

41:29

And I think that's just like a, it's

41:29

usually like,

41:32

coming from it's slow or like, you know,

41:32

like there's something going on in the

41:37

environment that like isn't necessarily

41:37

completely about what the DJ is doing, but

41:41

like they're the first line of fire. So you catch the heat.

41:46

and they don't feel comfortable with them

41:46

yet.

41:48

Yeah, so they're just like all over you,

41:48

but hovering and that is like another

41:55

thing that's like, you know, where I am

41:55

kind of alluding to like, you have to be

41:58

all these things at once, like you have to

41:58

be able to be like, professional with them

42:02

and like respectful to them while also

42:02

kind of figuring out how to like, still

42:07

have a good outcome on the dance floor. So I don't know, I think it's like a very

42:09

case by case basis with that.

42:14

And I don't, I would never want a DJ to

42:14

like fall into this.

42:18

um, mode of just like defaulting to do

42:18

whatever this person who is not the DJ is

42:25

telling them to do because it's like

42:25

probably not going to work.

42:29

Um, so, you know, sometimes it's like good

42:29

feedback, but not always and you're going

42:35

to get blamed either way. Yeah.

42:38

So it's a tough one.

42:41

certain, once you reach a certain point as

42:41

a DJ as well, you can kind of say like,

42:46

well you're hiring me to be me, right? You're hiring Kareem, you're hiring

42:47

Trotty, you're hiring Gary to go be you,

42:52

who you've been for 10 plus years or

42:52

however long, you know?

42:55

And maybe that's just a venue that we

42:55

don't want to work at anymore kind of

42:59

thing, you know, if someone is really

42:59

hands on like that and not allowing the DJ

43:02

to be the expert like you said.

43:06

Yeah, agreed. dealing, do you deal with that a lot?

43:08

Are you dealing with DJs walking out of

43:08

gigs being like, I'm never playing there

43:11

again? And then being like, is this a huge, is

43:11

this, and then it's like, you have to kind

43:16

of figure out, is this a red flag for the

43:16

venue or the person who's, you know, who's

43:22

in the wrong here, who's in the right? Ha ha ha.

43:25

The the good news is I guess about

43:25

figuring that mystery out is that we

43:31

usually have like multiple data points so

43:31

whether it's like Multiple DJs that we

43:36

personally work with or just like, you

43:36

know, we're all connected with everybody

43:40

So we can kind of quickly figure out like

43:40

is this a venue problem or is it a DJ

43:46

problem? We also know our talent like really well

43:46

we get enough You know experiences just

43:52

sort of formulate an opinion But yeah, I mean, it happens a lot,

43:55

honestly.

43:59

But you kind of have to just like

43:59

evaluate, like is this something that I

44:05

can deal with? Because, you know, like overall, it's more

44:06

worth it to continue playing this venue or

44:12

not. And we try, like if it's appropriate, and

44:13

we feel comfortable and close enough with

44:18

whomever it is, or someone that's part of

44:18

that group or whatever.

44:22

Like if we can... chat with them about it.

44:24

Sometimes our DJs even like feel close

44:24

enough with, you know, if it's a promoter

44:29

or GM or something to sort of say like,

44:29

hey, like, can we like, dial it back?

44:35

Like, let's figure this out. Let's talk when I'm not like actively

44:36

DJing next time about like the music

44:40

direction. But yeah, it happens a lot.

44:43

And I think that also like, is a little

44:43

bit of

44:47

the environment. Like there's a lot of stuff that can go

44:48

down like between the hours of 10 and 4.

44:54

That you know when you're talking at noon

44:54

the next day maybe it's like a little more

44:58

productive. So it's a wild ride but you know you kind

44:58

of just have to evaluate it on a

45:04

case-by-case basis I'd say. Yeah, it's just that's a huge part of the

45:06

professionalism, right?

45:09

You have to be ready for even if it's the

45:09

manager, the owner that's too drunk and

45:13

it's not the DJ that's drunk, right? And it's really figuring all of that stuff

45:14

out and managing, managing it all.

45:19

And it's, this is the thing.

45:22

I feel like these are the things that

45:22

younger DJs aren't thinking about when

45:26

they're like, I just want to get in the booth. And then all of a sudden you get thrown,

45:27

you get all of this stuff thrown at you at

45:30

once and it's like, well, how do I manage

45:30

all of this?

45:33

You know, I'm trying to entertain and be on the mic and mix and

45:34

play the right music and then this guy

45:37

wants this and This drunk girls all over

45:37

me over in this side and it's like it's a

45:41

lot to process So, yeah

45:45

challenge from where we sit as well, right? Because we're representing these artists

45:47

and we're mentoring and managing these

45:50

artists. But at the same time, we're also managing

45:51

a relationship with a venue that

45:54

sometimes, you know, brings in a whole lot

45:54

of revenue for the business over the

45:59

course of a year. So we have to play that middle role

45:59

sometimes where sometimes we have to be on

46:04

the venue side, but hopefully the majority

46:04

of the time we're on the artist side.

46:08

So I think that's a challenge that Gary

46:08

and I deal with a lot.

46:11

I don't know.

46:13

Do you kind of? Deal with that too.

46:16

Yeah, it's very relatable.

46:19

We have gone through quite a few

46:19

situations like that.

46:24

But at the end of the day, I think it's

46:24

one of those things where it's just

46:30

another example of why it's so helpful to

46:30

have a team, a manager, someone.

46:36

Because it's just like to your best

46:36

interest to not burn bridges, like in

46:42

general in our industry.

46:44

Now... If something's so egregious, like, you

46:45

know, there have been certain things that

46:49

have happened over the years, like, where

46:49

it's so egregious and you're like, wow,

46:53

like, they either, they were so offensive

46:53

or so wrong, or like, this is clearly like

46:59

a character trait, this is just, you know,

46:59

a feature, not a bug.

47:05

We do not wanna work with you anymore,

47:05

like, you know, that can happen, but most

47:09

of the time, like, you just wanna never

47:09

burn a bridge fully and-

47:13

I think the benefit of having that buffer

47:13

of like a management or whoever is

47:17

supporting you, that's where it really

47:17

like carries its value and weight because

47:24

that person can kind of like keep things

47:24

calm, tear out both sides and then you

47:30

know pin in that and maybe you're going to

47:30

end up working with them again years later

47:35

when it fits and it makes sense.

47:38

But you don't have to, you know, maybe if you

47:39

were dealing with that by yourself, there

47:42

would never be that bridge of possibility

47:42

in the future because, you know, too much

47:49

love lost on a one-to-one basis.

47:51

So, you know, it is really hard to

47:51

navigate and we just always hope and try

47:58

our best to have the trust of our artists.

48:03

And, you know, I think sometimes that's

48:03

hard, like in the heat of the moment.

48:08

and maybe they want us to have their backs

48:08

even more and even harder.

48:13

But I think once the emotions kind of

48:13

settle, a lot of times they understand

48:19

what the value is for them also long-term.

48:23

It's like, it's like for them. It's not about anything else really at

48:24

all.

48:29

and everybody's different and deals with

48:29

things differently.

48:32

And that's part of what we do too, right?

48:34

Is learning how to manage the different

48:34

personalities and different people in our

48:38

group and how to approach them, how to

48:38

talk to them, how to give them feedback,

48:42

because everybody's different. And we could do it the way we wanna do it,

48:43

but I think it's more beneficial if we do

48:47

it in the way that particular person takes

48:47

criticism or takes feedback or likes to

48:54

converse or whatever. Yeah, otherwise they're not going to hear

48:56

it and then kind of like, what's the

48:58

point? So I'm with you on that.

49:01

It might take a little bit more of like

49:01

our operating power, brain power to do it,

49:05

but it's worth it. It's part of the job, honestly.

49:09

All right, I want to transition a little bit. So 4AM is a high-end agency, right?

49:14

You know, Gary and I, when we were growing

49:14

up and started DJing, the goal was always

49:19

to like, we want to get on an agency,

49:19

whether it was 4AM or Scam or whoever,

49:23

right? So what are... 4am was always the goal.

49:30

Well, yeah, New York based, of course,

49:30

let's go.

49:34

So what are some of the characteristics

49:34

that you look for in some of the younger

49:38

DJs as far as that you're scouting or

49:38

looking to potentially bring on?

49:44

And just what's some advice for DJs that

49:44

maybe want to pursue an agency?

49:50

For sure. That's a great question.

49:53

We've sort of like developed our own

49:53

unspoken, spoken rubric over the years of

49:59

what we look for. And it also evolves, like as the culture

50:00

evolves and the nightlife landscape

50:04

evolves. But I think, you know, just since we were

50:04

on the subject, like, we look for

50:10

maturity, honestly, as just like a soft

50:10

skill, maturity and like professionalism

50:17

and like having sort of this.

50:19

um self-awareness like is something that

50:19

we kind of look for and someone who isn't

50:26

like I love to kind of meet somebody when

50:26

they aren't jaded by the industry yet but

50:34

they're also not like too naive because I

50:34

don't know like if you guys have

50:40

experienced this but like it's actually

50:40

tough sometimes to be somebody's first

50:46

manager um because

50:48

they maybe aren't used to like the dynamic

50:48

and also they might not understand like

50:55

really what a manager does. And a lot of times you kind of have to

50:58

like experience working in the industry

51:04

without one to understand like the value

51:04

in having one.

51:10

So there's like a few things like in that

51:10

regard that I think we kind of look out

51:15

for. Um, and also just kind of going off vibes,

51:16

like, does this seem like somebody who's

51:20

coachable? Does it seem like somebody who's also

51:20

knows enough of who they are and like have

51:25

kind of a direction that they want to go

51:25

in?

51:27

Because I've also seen a lot of like, I

51:27

just want like more gigs and like, I don't

51:33

really know what I'm doing, but like I

51:33

want, you know, like I don't, you don't

51:37

get that like, oh, this person like really

51:37

understands like, what this is all about,

51:42

like they have a sense of self and like,

51:42

you know.

51:45

that's really important because like I

51:45

can't necessarily create like the North

51:49

Star for you, like you're an artist, like

51:49

this is kind of what it's all about.

51:53

Like it's funny not to like if you're too

51:53

far off topic, but I was just chatting

52:00

with somebody about the Rick Rubin book

52:00

and you know all the touring he's been

52:05

doing in the past six months for that and

52:05

the discussion of like

52:11

who is art for and he says something like,

52:18

if you're making art for an audience,

52:18

that's consumerism, that's commercialism,

52:26

like that's not art. You make art for yourself.

52:29

And then, you know, people either are with

52:29

it or not.

52:33

And like, that's sort of how like a fan

52:33

base emerges.

52:36

They see something in it that speaks to

52:36

them.

52:38

So I kind of think about that concept in

52:38

working with talent as well, because they

52:46

need to have that, like, passion and drive themselves and that

52:48

vision and then where we come into play is

52:52

to like help Execute that help optimize

52:52

that like really like help put the puzzle

52:58

pieces in place to get them where they're

52:58

envisioning going It cannot be like I come

53:05

up with that for you I mean, I guess that

53:05

does happen in the music industry, but

53:09

that's like not really what we're

53:09

interested in doing.

53:11

Um we're not trying to make like

53:15

industry plant DJ anytime soon.

53:17

So those are a couple of things that we

53:17

really look out for and we're pushing

53:23

everybody. Like we came out the gate this year like

53:24

telling every single one of our DJs

53:28

regardless of how many years they've been

53:28

doing this or not.

53:31

Like we want more content from you.

53:33

We want more music centered content.

53:36

Like this is something that you should

53:36

want to do for you like on its own but

53:41

we're gonna kind of like hold you

53:41

accountable to that because

53:45

Again, I think it's just something that happens. Like you can kind of get lost in the

53:47

shuffle of like your day to day, month to

53:50

month, but you got to remember like what

53:50

your job is and like what you're here to

53:55

do and like why you're doing it. And it's for love of music at the end of

53:57

the day and like making people dance and

54:01

like all of these things that we all agree

54:01

on.

54:03

So we want to see that somebody is sort of

54:03

like very actively invested in their

54:09

career and giving us things to work with.

54:13

And... to sell and to package and all of that, we

54:14

cannot do it for someone.

54:23

It really has to come from them. We can help support, but that's probably

54:24

like, those are like kind of the couple of

54:29

top things that we really look for.

54:33

And just, yeah, not so irresponsible that

54:33

like we can't trust you to like get to a

54:38

gig on time or, you know, like you get too

54:38

shit faced at a gig or something like

54:43

that. Like... the big red flags, but other than that,

54:44

it's just those kind of core features.

54:49

Are you pushing your DJs to be more

54:49

artists, to be more music producers and

54:57

produce their own, or are you letting them

54:57

navigate?

55:00

Are you seeing something in somebody and

55:00

being like, okay, I think we can really

55:03

grow you as an artist. Maybe music production is something you

55:04

should get into.

55:06

Because as we've seen over the last 15

55:06

years, you've gone from, you can be a very

55:10

good DJ, and you were able to make it 15

55:10

years ago as just a good DJ, and now

55:15

that's not really the case anymore. So are you guys kind of...

55:18

guiding people into more of a production

55:18

artist role or do you kind of let them

55:24

kind of take the lead on that? Yeah, I think our whole thing is just you

55:26

have to have something, and it doesn't

55:32

have to be music production. Like, I think if your career, like you

55:34

evolve in a way, like maybe you want to

55:39

have a podcast and like maybe you want,

55:39

it's kind of coming back full circle to

55:44

our original conversation about legacy

55:44

planning, but this isn't even legacy

55:47

planning. This is just like evolution of a career.

55:51

you have to have something. And I think a lot of people gravitate

55:53

towards music production, but it doesn't

55:58

have to be that. Like not, that's not for everyone.

56:02

That might not be your passion. And it might not be like what you love

56:04

about DJing.

56:08

So we just try to encourage our artists.

56:12

And often like that's also something that

56:12

we're looking for in artists that we might

56:16

be taking on. It's like, they kind of have layers to

56:16

them of what they wanna do.

56:21

Um, because if not, it becomes stagnant

56:21

and transactional.

56:26

Um, and it's increasingly harder to sort

56:26

of like sell someone who doesn't have

56:33

things going on beyond the gigs that are

56:33

playing, you know, you can't, I think

56:38

we've kind of like moved out of the, get

56:38

that next gig by selling other gigs thing,

56:46

like, you know, you kind of have to have

56:46

more dimensions to you.

56:50

Um, but like the good news about that is

56:50

it's like a whole wide, endless open

56:56

world, like your thing can be anything.

57:00

Um, you just have to follow whatever that

57:00

is.

57:03

And I think like, there's a missed

57:03

opportunity for so many DJs, like young

57:09

and older, um, because to me, like the

57:09

whole original premise of what a DJ was to

57:16

me, um, is like. you're a musical taste maker.

57:21

I wanna hear what DJs have to say about

57:21

any and all things going on with music.

57:27

Why are we not hearing from more DJs about

57:27

that kind of stuff in a bigger format or

57:33

platform? So yeah, we definitely push everybody to

57:35

kind of do something.

57:40

And if it can be music at the center of

57:40

that, even better.

57:45

Sometimes it's other things, but it's sort

57:45

of like

57:48

entertainment or pop culture adjacent, but

57:48

yeah, it's got to be something.

57:54

I feel like we've gotten so laser focused

57:54

on like, you know, produce music, produce

57:57

music, produce music, that you don't think

57:57

about these other things that you can do.

58:01

Like you said, the podcasts and you know,

58:01

creating like your Spotify playlist even

58:06

for you has grown exponentially and that's

58:06

just, you don't even have to have like

58:10

your face behind that, right?

58:12

It's just a playlist of songs, but it

58:12

shows.

58:17

Ha ha ha.

58:20

I figured that. But like, you know, you're right.

58:24

There are so many things that you can do

58:24

creatively that you can center back to

58:29

music and bring back to music to showcase

58:29

kind of the type of DJ or the type of

58:33

person that you are as an artist.

58:35

We talked about how there are less venues,

58:35

right?

58:39

There's less gigs total out there in the

58:39

market.

58:42

But I think there's more DJs right now.

58:44

So for us as DJs and artists, it's how can

58:44

I set myself apart from the pack?

58:50

And for each person, that could be a

58:50

different thing, right?

58:53

It could be a Spotify place, could be a

58:53

podcast, whatever it is, it's gonna be

58:57

content related or it's gonna be music

58:57

related.

58:59

So if you're not working on one or both of

58:59

those things, you can't expect that you're

59:04

gonna outpace the pack, you know, you're just

59:05

gonna sit in the pack and you're gonna

59:08

make, you know, you're gonna book your

59:08

local gigs and if that's what you want to

59:11

do, that's fine. But if you want to grow as an artist into

59:12

some of the better spaces and travel gigs

59:16

and festivals, you have to be doing

59:16

something extraordinary, right?

59:21

Something out of the ordinary that is

59:21

gonna set you apart and show that there's

59:26

a reason why someone would want to work

59:26

with you or book you, you know, you have

59:30

to show value in some way. And I think that's that gets lost and it's

59:32

so, so important.

59:36

Yeah, I completely agree. And I would also say like going back to

59:37

this concept of like you're a business of

59:42

one and all of that I feel like you know

59:42

When you think about other kinds of

59:49

businesses like and someone decides to

59:49

start a business.

59:53

Okay, I'm starting I'm opening a coffee

59:53

shop, right?

59:56

Well, there's Starbucks and there's Dunkin

59:56

Donuts and there's a million other coffee

1:00:00

shops that do so well Like why do you need

1:00:00

to start a coffee shop?

1:00:04

I feel that I'm passionate about this and

1:00:04

I have something unique that I could bring

1:00:07

to the table and I'm gonna carve it out

1:00:07

and boom there I have a successful coffee

1:00:12

shop. Like I kind of feel the same way about

1:00:13

like the crowdedness of the space.

1:00:17

Like who cares that there's a lot of DJs?

1:00:19

Like or like seemingly less opportunities.

1:00:21

Like if you are focused on you and

1:00:21

passionate about what you do and like you

1:00:27

said like you're kind of pushing your own

1:00:27

envelope.

1:00:30

Like you're always growing.

1:00:32

you're gonna attract clients and customers

1:00:32

and opportunities.

1:00:36

It doesn't matter that there's, you know,

1:00:36

other musicians, other DJs out there.

1:00:42

And not to go too far into this kind of

1:00:42

like woo-woo conversation, but you know,

1:00:49

in an era, we're in this era where like

1:00:49

artificial intelligence and like all these

1:00:54

things are kind of like popping up.

1:00:57

I think it makes even more of a reason of

1:00:57

like

1:01:00

why it's so important to be unique and be

1:01:00

a human being that's creating art and or

1:01:06

involved in the artistic space because

1:01:06

there is simply something that like a

1:01:12

unique human can like think up or do that

1:01:12

like just AI will never be able to like

1:01:19

exactly replicate. So I don't think there's any reason to be

1:01:20

discouraged by like the fact that it's a

1:01:25

crowded, quote unquote crowded space.

1:01:28

If you're just focused on you and like

1:01:28

always being better than you were

1:01:31

yesterday, you should be good.

1:01:34

Yeah, there's a lot of lanes to success.

1:01:37

And no two lanes are the same. And just because someone that started

1:01:38

DJing at the same time as you is doing

1:01:41

more than you, maybe right now doesn't

1:01:41

mean that you can't surpass them in your

1:01:47

own time, right? Everyone's on their own timeline, so don't

1:01:49

compare yourself to other people.

1:01:52

And like you said, just keep doing the

1:01:52

work and you'll see the fruits of that

1:01:56

labor for sure. Definitely.

1:02:00

Gary, I want to transition a little bit. So Gary and I were looking through the 4AM

1:02:02

roster yesterday, and one thing that

1:02:06

really stood out to us was the number of

1:02:06

women on your team.

1:02:09

So I think there was like, almost half of

1:02:09

your team is female DJs, and we love to

1:02:16

see it. It's something that we've been really

1:02:16

trying to, we've been trying to bring more

1:02:19

females onto our roster. So is that purposeful?

1:02:24

Is that something that just kind of happened? What's the reasoning behind that?

1:02:31

It was definitely purposeful when I first

1:02:31

got started.

1:02:35

I think when I started in the business,

1:02:35

the rosters that I was managing were, I

1:02:41

don't think there were any women.

1:02:45

I eventually started working with the

1:02:45

dolls, Mia Moretti and Margot, violinist.

1:02:52

And I think they were the first female

1:02:52

artists that I began working with.

1:03:00

Also Brooklyn Dawn, a little more back in

1:03:00

the day, 4 a.m., who's also amazing.

1:03:07

And I kind of just realized, why is this

1:03:07

so, so male dominated?

1:03:16

And I kind of went out, definitely, maybe

1:03:16

subconsciously, looking for that.

1:03:22

I think also, as I kind of continued to

1:03:22

gain experience and exposure within the

1:03:28

industry, it just kind of organically naturally

1:03:29

happened because I think especially in a

1:03:35

male dominated industry, women will seek

1:03:35

out other women even more than maybe in

1:03:41

the industries where it's a little more

1:03:41

balanced because you're kind of looking

1:03:44

for that camaraderie and safety and

1:03:44

there's sort of this trust there, just,

1:03:52

oh, it's another woman. I mean, maybe you should be more

1:03:53

discerning, but it's another woman.

1:03:58

feel a little bit more safe in this

1:03:58

context, just on a baseline.

1:04:02

So, especially in nightlife. I mean, women go through hell, especially

1:04:04

if you're a DJ and you're like on the

1:04:10

front lines and dealing with all kinds of

1:04:10

crazy stuff.

1:04:13

So, I think it kind of like started to

1:04:13

organically just evolve as like I kind of

1:04:19

moved through my career.

1:04:22

And I would say like kind of like a

1:04:22

turning point.

1:04:27

when I was working with, I worked with

1:04:27

Kiana Parks, who's like one of my favorite

1:04:32

DJs and people, worked with her for

1:04:32

several years during like a really pivotal

1:04:37

point in her career. And I think like, I would honestly

1:04:39

attribute that to getting a lot of like

1:04:44

attention, I would say, from like other

1:04:44

women DJs and like other people in the

1:04:48

space because she's also like, I don't

1:04:48

know, I think she kind of like emanates

1:04:52

that sort of energy as well.

1:04:55

And I think, you know, after managing her, we sort of just

1:04:56

naturally picked up a lot of women DJs,

1:05:02

producers, et cetera. And I love working with women.

1:05:07

I love working with men as well. I think like, you know, across the board,

1:05:08

like diversity is just really important

1:05:15

and it makes everybody better.

1:05:18

And I think, you know, we have several

1:05:18

women who work on our team internally as

1:05:24

well. And it's just been like a really positive

1:05:25

experience for everyone across the board.

1:05:30

It's funny, cause like, I don't think it

1:05:30

really felt so much as like a deliberate

1:05:34

thing for a lot of people. And in a way that was good because it just

1:05:35

sort of like normalized it, especially for

1:05:41

the DJs that are on our team. Like I think hopefully people think less

1:05:42

of it as like, oh, that's a female DJ.

1:05:49

Like it's just a DJ. Just that happens to be a woman.

1:05:54

we can move on with our lives. So I think like that's kind of what we're

1:05:56

working toward in general.

1:06:00

It's very normalized for us.

1:06:03

I know the rest of the industry like still

1:06:03

has not quite caught up to that.

1:06:07

Like I do the, you know, hardest eye roll

1:06:07

ever.

1:06:11

Every time I see like a lineup go out and

1:06:11

it just like, it looks like the same like

1:06:16

promo picture, like 12 times in a row.

1:06:19

Like the person almost looks the same too.

1:06:22

Hey Um, but yeah, I think like, if I think

1:06:22

it's just, you know, hopefully it's like

1:06:29

having a gradual and increasing impact

1:06:29

where, um, we're pushing past certain

1:06:35

stereotypes. I mean, like. If you are a conventionally attractive

1:06:37

woman who looks a certain kind of way,

1:06:42

who's a DJ for the longest time and even

1:06:42

to present, there's just like constantly

1:06:47

you're like working against this idea that

1:06:47

like they're not.

1:06:50

talented, like they're just filling this

1:06:50

aesthetic space, which is so far from the

1:06:57

case. So we're trying to push past like all

1:06:57

those kinds of things and kind of going

1:07:03

back to our earlier conversation about

1:07:03

like mentorship between more experienced

1:07:09

older DJs and younger DJs and like kind of

1:07:09

that symbiotic relationship.

1:07:13

Like I think there's a lot to be said

1:07:13

about like men, women, non-binary

1:07:19

across the spectrum, like being in a

1:07:19

community together and learning from each

1:07:24

other and working together because it's

1:07:24

just different added perspectives that

1:07:29

like you might not get yourself in your

1:07:29

own sort of bubble.

1:07:33

So that it sort of was just like an

1:07:33

organic thing for us frankly but we're

1:07:39

super proud of it. I know all the guys that are part of our

1:07:41

crew like are very proud of it, very you

1:07:45

know proud of and protective of.

1:07:48

the women who are on our team and they all

1:07:48

like, I think it's like they all kind of

1:07:54

like feed off of each other's energy and

1:07:54

like push each other in different ways.

1:08:00

there's just been such a crazy demand

1:08:00

lately that at least that has been coming

1:08:04

across our desk that's like, you know, we

1:08:04

want a woman DJ.

1:08:08

And it's like, all right, well, we have,

1:08:08

you know, a handful, but it's like, a lot

1:08:13

of times they're booked out right now,

1:08:13

especially right now, because everybody

1:08:16

loves to have a woman DJ in their space.

1:08:20

And I think, unfortunately, right now, in

1:08:20

some spaces, it's for aesthetics.

1:08:25

But then once you put a talented person

1:08:25

into that position, they're asking for

1:08:29

them back over and over again, which is

1:08:29

nice.

1:08:33

So we spoke to one of our female DJs and

1:08:33

she's like, I hesitated a little bit about

1:08:39

jumping into this DJ culture because of

1:08:39

all of those unique challenges that women

1:08:44

have. Kind of what advice could you give girls

1:08:46

that are like, you know what, I kind of

1:08:50

want to take the leap and I want to start

1:08:50

DJing and put myself into this.

1:08:54

nightlife space, but I'm a little nervous

1:08:54

because of all of those challenges that we

1:08:59

all know of.

1:09:02

Yeah, I would say number one, know that

1:09:02

you have so many options in terms of like

1:09:08

who you could go to for guidance, support,

1:09:08

mentorship, management, any of the

1:09:15

following. I think before there was a lot of like

1:09:17

susceptibility to getting picked up by...

1:09:26

like a creepy older dude like in the

1:09:26

industry, who like makes you a lot of

1:09:32

promises and like very like stereotypical

1:09:32

like music industry shit, but like it

1:09:37

happens so often in the DJ community.

1:09:41

Just try to not get into a situation like

1:09:41

that.

1:09:45

I've been peripherally around some pretty

1:09:45

gnarly stories, situations like you do not

1:09:51

need to go down that road. That would be the first thing I would say.

1:09:55

And just like, definitely kind of pick out some people

1:09:56

that you can have as alliances.

1:10:02

There's so many resources now. I'm in this amazing, amazing community

1:10:04

that like is kind of just like popped up

1:10:10

out of like a WhatsApp chat community of

1:10:10

women in the music industry, women in the

1:10:15

dance music space. Everyone is so supportive of each other.

1:10:18

Like you have people who are like Grammy

1:10:18

award winning artists in these groups to

1:10:22

like, you know, some of the biggest

1:10:25

talent managers in the world and like all

1:10:25

the way to like, you know, somebody who's

1:10:29

just starting out, who's like a local,

1:10:29

like hustling DJ.

1:10:33

And everybody is like super eager to help

1:10:33

each other out, give advice, et cetera.

1:10:39

So I would just say like, look for those

1:10:39

kinds of communities.

1:10:44

If anybody who is watching or listening to

1:10:44

this is somebody facing this and wants to

1:10:50

talk to me, like you absolutely can, my

1:10:50

door is always open.

1:10:55

and just like focus on being a really

1:10:55

technically skilled DJ with great musical

1:11:03

knowledge. All of the other stuff should also you

1:11:05

know fit into the mix like content and

1:11:11

social media and all that like but the

1:11:11

craft is like the number one thing so like

1:11:18

don't forget about that and keep that.

1:11:22

up there and I think like you will just

1:11:22

naturally gain a lot of respect, which you

1:11:28

know hopefully instills some boundaries

1:11:28

and like protects you from some of the

1:11:33

gnarly stuff. But yeah, I think like thankfully the

1:11:35

landscape has shifted a lot already and

1:11:42

you know there's there are things to be

1:11:42

obviously like hesitant about and like

1:11:46

concerned with but there are definitely

1:11:46

ways to avoid a lot of it.

1:11:52

You know, obviously like in party

1:11:52

environments, there's things that can go

1:11:58

down, like it doesn't matter if you're a

1:11:58

woman or a man or what have you, like we,

1:12:03

you know, just deal with those things the

1:12:03

best we can.

1:12:06

That's why like having a team or something

1:12:06

like that, someone to advocate for you is

1:12:09

really important. There's actually a male musician that we

1:12:11

work with who I had a conversation with in

1:12:18

the past year because of some...

1:12:21

you know, difficulties that he experienced

1:12:21

during an event with clients that was like

1:12:26

an invasion of space and like all kinds of

1:12:26

things.

1:12:29

So like it really like things can happen

1:12:29

to anybody.

1:12:33

That's why it's really important to have

1:12:33

an advocate.

1:12:37

Advocate for yourself, obviously, first

1:12:37

and foremost, but like make sure you

1:12:41

always have somebody like in your corner,

1:12:41

whether they're there with you or know

1:12:45

what's up that can help you out.

1:12:48

You can't prevent every possible situation

1:12:48

from happening, so just make sure you have

1:12:53

resources around you. Love that.

1:12:56

Incredible advice. I think the other thing too, women in the

1:12:58

music industry are absolutely crushing

1:13:01

right now. Taylor Swift, biggest artist in the game.

1:13:05

In hip hop, the girls to me, and Gary and

1:13:05

I have talked about this all day, I'd

1:13:10

rather listen to the female rappers right

1:13:10

now than any of the male rappers.

1:13:15

Ha! Like that is also like, by the way, like

1:13:15

that is like my like favorite like genre

1:13:20

probably if I had to pick. But it's like, we're back in like the

1:13:22

glory days of like women in hip hop.

1:13:27

I'm like living for it. on like the Meg and Nikki beef right now

1:13:28

or what?

1:13:31

Yes, I've been in, well, I mean, for those

1:13:31

of us who are Megan Thee Stallion fans,

1:13:37

we're sort of like out of it, because it's

1:13:37

just Nikki kind of spiraling on her own.

1:13:44

I love, I love Nicki Minaj as like, I love

1:13:44

her music, but it gets hard sometimes with

1:13:52

these artists separating the artists from

1:13:52

like, how they are acting in their regular

1:13:58

life. But I've been a Megan Thee Stallion fan

1:13:58

for- years.

1:14:01

So I am thrilled about her success.

1:14:05

Love her music. ha ha. Alright, so we're gonna get into some

1:14:06

quick hitters here.

1:14:09

Just like some, you can kinda just name

1:14:09

off some stuff.

1:14:12

So, we talked a lot first about the dance

1:14:12

music industry.

1:14:16

So who is your favorite artist in the

1:14:16

dance music world?

1:14:21

Oh my God, that is such a tough question.

1:14:25

I think LPGOB is killing it and I love the

1:14:25

way that she treats other people in the

1:14:33

industry. So she definitely gets my vote in that

1:14:34

regard.

1:14:37

There's lots of, I mean, not just women

1:14:37

DJs, obviously, but also it's been

1:14:42

incredible to see Peggy Gou, the whole

1:14:42

transformation blowing up in the past few

1:14:49

years. I don't know, there's just so, there's so

1:14:50

many.

1:14:53

It's hard to pick. I saw LP GeoBeat at Breakaway Festival in

1:14:54

Charlotte this summer.

1:14:59

She was great. It was probably my favorite set I heard. I was only there for like three or four

1:15:01

acts, but she played my favorite set for

1:15:05

sure. As a deadhead, I'm all on board.

1:15:08

Love her for it. She's been playing a lot of post-dead

1:15:10

shows and she produced a Jerry album that

1:15:14

was, it was okay, it wasn't bad, but it

1:15:14

was good for the house music side of

1:15:19

things. But yeah, I love her as well.

1:15:22

I've been following her around a lot the last year and a half. In the hip hop world is Megan your pick?

1:15:26

Is that your girl? Yeah, but like I have to confess, like one

1:15:27

of my top artists listened to on Spotify,

1:15:34

like don't clown on me for this.

1:15:36

Last year was Sexy Red. Wow.

1:15:40

Um, my, you know how they did that?

1:15:43

Like, uh, did you guys see in Spotify rap

1:15:43

this year?

1:15:45

I love how they like, will come up with

1:15:45

different ways to like pull the data

1:15:49

together, but this year they did that

1:15:49

whole like, what's your, I don't know if

1:15:52

they called it like the sound city or like

1:15:52

listening city or whatever.

1:15:56

And I'm watching like every single other

1:15:56

girl I know in my age group, they're

1:16:01

posting like, I don't know, it was like

1:16:01

some sort of like Midwestern town.

1:16:06

It was like Taylor, cause they listened to

1:16:06

a lot of Taylor Swift or something.

1:16:09

And mine was Tallahassee, okay?

1:16:12

Which I was like, oh my God, like how did

1:16:12

I end up with, like, this says a lot.

1:16:20

But yeah, I think Megan Thee Stallion is

1:16:20

probably my number one in hip hop right

1:16:28

now. Yeah, she's killing it.

1:16:30

What was the last concert or concert

1:16:30

ticket that you paid to go see?

1:16:36

that I paid to see. Ha ha ha!

1:16:40

Because I know we get to go to a lot of

1:16:40

different things in our line of work.

1:16:45

I guess like traditional concert or like

1:16:45

festival was probably Lollapalooza last

1:16:55

summer. I've been to like a million shows and

1:16:56

stuff since then, but it's like the thing

1:16:59

that's standing out in my mind because my

1:16:59

bucket list, my like one of my few

1:17:05

remaining like artists to see on my bucket

1:17:05

list in my lifetime was Red Hot Chili

1:17:08

Peppers. I had, I've wanted to see them

1:17:13

for my entire existence, they were

1:17:13

unbelievable.

1:17:16

It was like better than I could have even

1:17:16

imagined.

1:17:20

So that was a highlight for sure.

1:17:25

I've seen, I don't know, there's just been

1:17:25

so many, I've appreciated like live music,

1:17:29

like even more than ever before after the

1:17:29

pandemic.

1:17:32

I got to go to the first show back at

1:17:32

Madison Square Garden when everything like

1:17:38

unlocked, which was Foo Fighters.

1:17:41

And that was like, also an unbelievable show that I'll

1:17:43

remember forever.

1:17:47

Yeah, I'd love to go see Food Fighters for

1:17:47

sure.

1:17:49

I think it's cool to go see artists

1:17:49

outside of what we do on a daily basis

1:17:54

kind of thing, you know? That's important.

1:17:57

It's just, it's another perspective and

1:17:57

it's kind of, you get some creative juices

1:18:01

from that you don't necessarily get going

1:18:01

to see an EDM or a hip hop artist, so I

1:18:06

love that. and like you gotta remember, I mean I

1:18:07

think it's really hard for DJs, like

1:18:12

you're always kind of like, your mind is

1:18:12

probably always thinking about music in a

1:18:16

very specific way that the rest of us

1:18:16

don't have that burden.

1:18:22

But just to do things for fun, like for no

1:18:22

other reason.

1:18:27

Chachi and I were talking about this the

1:18:27

other day, like I forget what we were

1:18:30

talking about going to like some sort of

1:18:30

festival or something or...

1:18:34

something conference, something that was

1:18:34

going on somewhere.

1:18:37

And I was like, oh yeah, are we gonna do

1:18:37

that?

1:18:39

Like, cause strategically, like, shouldn't

1:18:39

we go for like, what's the reason we're

1:18:42

going? Like this, this and this. And he was like, to have fun.

1:18:46

Like, can we, can we just do something

1:18:46

once just to like have fun and enjoy the

1:18:50

music? And I was like, you know what?

1:18:53

We can. And I think that's super important.

1:18:56

And we should all do more of that. Does he, yeah.

1:18:59

sounds like me. There's no reason for this, we're just

1:19:00

going to do it.

1:19:03

Ha ha. go. There doesn't need to be a reason.

1:19:06

More of that for all of us. That's like last piece of advice for all

1:19:07

of us that I need to take.

1:19:12

All right, so two more questions. One of them, we like to ask these

1:19:14

questions.

1:19:16

Might not be the easiest one, but what is

1:19:16

your biggest challenge at the moment?

1:19:21

My biggest challenge at the moment, and

1:19:21

this is a recurring issue for years, is

1:19:27

how to be in multiple places at once.

1:19:31

There's just literally like, especially

1:19:31

when you manage multiple artists, you want

1:19:35

to be everywhere for everyone, and you

1:19:35

want to be supporting them at a show, but

1:19:41

you also know you need to like be maybe

1:19:41

somewhere else for like a networking

1:19:45

reason, or you know, there's just like a

1:19:45

million...

1:19:48

reasons. So I would say like that's the first thing

1:19:49

that comes to my mind is like time

1:19:53

management is always an evolving challenge

1:19:53

and like finding a way to be effective and

1:19:59

be everywhere all at once.

1:20:04

I like that. We could use the same thing, Gar.

1:20:08

Yeah, seriously. they get that cloning technology, I mean,

1:20:09

I feel like we're right there, so.

1:20:13

Ah. All right, and I guess the last one, and I

1:20:15

know we've talked a lot about this, but we

1:20:18

like to ask what's one piece of device or

1:20:18

one thing that you can give an upcoming

1:20:22

artist or DJ or one little tidbit that we

1:20:22

haven't covered yet.

1:20:28

Hmm, um, wear earplugs.

1:20:33

That is the direction I'm taking it in

1:20:33

because I now am seeing the impact of my

1:20:41

beloved DJs that did not do so at critical

1:20:41

window of their life, being around

1:20:46

loudspeakers, et cetera. It is so, so important.

1:20:50

Um, I was at Factory Town, uh, with Mia

1:20:50

Moretti who had played a show there in

1:20:55

December, um, and.

1:20:57

standing in VIP, which is like basically

1:20:57

all the artists and their teams and I was

1:21:02

the only person wearing earplugs and the

1:21:02

speakers are right there.

1:21:05

I was just like, it was a nightmare kind

1:21:05

of picturing what was in store for

1:21:08

everyone. So that is number one of practical advice.

1:21:12

And then otherwise, aside from that, I

1:21:12

would just say, put the art first, have

1:21:18

fun with it and like do no harm to other

1:21:18

people in the process.

1:21:23

I love it. That's a great way for us to wrap up here.

1:21:28

I wanna shout out some of your team that

1:21:28

we work with and shout to Marty Rock and

1:21:33

obviously Chachi and Rick Wonder. We talk about Rick a lot on this podcast.

1:21:37

He's been on the show before. And I would love to get some of those

1:21:39

other guys on here at some point too.

1:21:42

So I'm sure we can make that happen down

1:21:42

the road.

1:21:45

But Madison, thank you so much for joining

1:21:45

us.

1:21:49

We appreciate you. Thank you guys, it was so much fun and

1:21:50

looking forward to doing some cool stuff

1:21:56

together this year. for sure.

1:21:59

All right, guys, thanks for listening to

1:21:59

this episode.

1:22:02

We'll catch you next week. Peace. Peace guys.

1:22:08

Sweet. Perfect. Amazing.

1:22:10

Thank you guys so much. It was so much fun.

1:22:13

that was great. Great convo. We knew it was going to be good.

1:22:15

So.