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in September, we talked about the

1:01

influence of Spanish on U.S. English

1:03

and its growing prevalence as an

1:05

unofficial second language in this country.

1:08

But what do we call people of

1:10

Hispanic or Latin American descent? Hispanic?

1:13

Latino? Latina? What

1:17

about new

1:19

terms like

1:21

Latinx—L-A-T-I-N-X—and Latine—L-A-T-I-N-E?

1:25

Well, first, out of respect, we should refer

1:27

to people by the terms they prefer. But

1:30

let's talk about the history and usage

1:32

of these different ways to refer to

1:34

those of Hispanic or Latin American descent.

1:42

Grammar Girl here. I'm Mignon Fogarty,

1:44

your friendly guide to the English

1:46

language. Stick around because after we

1:48

go through this interesting segment by

1:50

Susan Herman, I'll talk about why

1:52

some people object to the phrases,

1:55

grow your business and grow smaller.

2:01

We'll start with the term Hispanic,

2:03

Hispano in Spanish. This

2:06

term is about language, so it's used

2:08

to refer to people from Spanish-speaking countries,

2:11

including Spain and Latin America, but

2:14

not Brazil, where Portuguese is the main

2:16

language. Hispanic

2:18

generally refers to people in the U.S.,

2:20

and according to history.com, it was first

2:22

used by the U.S. government in the

2:25

1980 census. At

2:28

that time, the National Council

2:30

of La Raza, now known

2:32

as Unidos U.S., lobbied

2:35

the government to adopt the term for the

2:37

census as a way to develop a common

2:39

agenda for the community. In

2:42

the 1990s, Hispanic began to

2:44

gain popularity, particularly in Spanish-language

2:47

media like Telemundo and Univision,

2:49

which benefited from a united market.

2:53

Even though it's still widely used, the

2:55

problem with this term is that it

2:57

harkens back to the colonization of Latin

2:59

America by Spain, which many

3:01

people may want to distance themselves from. Because

3:05

of some of these concerns, the

3:07

term Latino in Spanish gained popularity.

3:10

Latino refers to people from Latin

3:12

America, but not Spain, so it

3:14

does include people from Brazil and

3:16

other Latin American countries like Haiti,

3:19

even though they don't speak Spanish. The

3:22

term isn't new, however. According

3:24

to history.com, it was used in a 1970

3:27

diary entry by First Lady Claudia Lady

3:29

Bird Johnson in 1970, and in a

3:31

March 1973 article from the Black Panther

3:33

Party's newspaper. By

3:39

2000, the census

3:41

included the question,

3:43

is this person

3:46

Spanish-slash-Hispanic-slash-Latino? Another

3:48

issue with the term Latino has to do with

3:51

gender. Spanish is

3:53

a gendered language, which means that all

3:55

nouns and adjectives have a gender. Words

3:58

that end in O are generally

4:00

masculine and words that end in

4:02

a are generally feminine. As always,

4:04

there are some exceptions. So

4:07

Latina is used for women, but

4:09

when you have a mixed group of people

4:11

or objects, the word automatically defaults

4:13

to the masculine plural form. So,

4:16

for example, if you have a group of 49 women

4:19

and one man, they're Latinos. Over

4:22

the years, many people have pushed back on

4:24

this as a sexist characteristic of the language.

4:27

More on that in a moment. In

4:30

writing, many people try to avoid

4:32

these issues by using Latino slash

4:34

A or Latina Latin with

4:38

an at sign at the end, since it looks

4:40

like both an A and an O. But

4:43

those variants are difficult or even

4:45

impossible to pronounce. It

4:47

gets even more interesting though. The

4:49

term Chicano has been used to

4:51

describe Mexican Americans, particularly those involved

4:53

in the Civil Rights Movement of

4:56

the 1960s of the same name.

4:59

With that, the term began to take

5:01

on political and activist undertones, so

5:03

it's never been used to refer to

5:05

all Mexican Americans. Although

5:08

the origin of Chicano isn't completely

5:10

clear, one theory presented

5:12

by history.com is that

5:14

it comes from the indigenous Nahuatl

5:16

word Mexicano pronounced

5:19

Me-shee-kahn-oh. It's

5:21

still used in the Southwest by

5:23

several organizations and educational institutions. So

5:27

what term or terms are in

5:29

use now? Well, according to

5:31

dictionary.com, quote, the words Latinx and

5:33

Latine are used by people who

5:36

want to avoid the association with

5:38

gender altogether as a way

5:40

to avoid gendered language when it's not relevant

5:42

or specifically for use when

5:45

referring to non-binary people or groups

5:47

in which more than one gender

5:49

is represented, unquote. The

5:51

terms first came about in the early 2000s

5:54

in the LGBTQ plus community,

5:56

primarily in the United States.

6:00

Latinx was added to the Merriam-Webster Dictionary

6:02

in 2018 and to the

6:04

Oxford English Dictionary in 2019. Merriam-Webster

6:08

also includes Latine and notes its

6:10

first usage in 2017. People

6:15

often look at the spelling of these words

6:17

and wonder how to pronounce them. Well,

6:19

Latinx is usually pronounced the way you've

6:22

been hearing me say it, Latinx, and

6:24

also more rarely as Latinx, according

6:27

to Merriam-Webster and a video by

6:29

the American Pronunciation Guide. This

6:32

phenomenon of using x for gender-neutral

6:35

terms isn't unique to Spanish either.

6:38

Similar terms have popped up in

6:40

English like mix, mx, as a

6:42

courtesy title, and folks,

6:45

f-o-l-x, as a way to

6:47

refer to commonly marginalized people. We

6:50

also have Latine, but some English

6:52

speakers may pronounce it lat-een. Some

6:55

people prefer Latine because it fits better

6:58

with Spanish rules of pronunciation. As

7:01

dictionary.com points out, Latinx can

7:03

be, quote, cumbersome to pronounce,

7:05

unquote, for Spanish speakers. Using

7:08

Latine also allows people to

7:10

adhere to Spanish subject-verb and

7:12

noun-adjective agreement in terms of number,

7:15

that is, singular and plural. The

7:18

question is, are Latinx and

7:20

Latine used by the people

7:22

they represent? Well, not

7:24

so much, it turns out. Many

7:27

continue to use Latino as the

7:29

default, and many others prefer to

7:31

highlight their place of origin—Puerto Rican,

7:33

Mexican American, Salvadoran, and Peruvian,

7:35

for example. And

7:38

according to an article by Them magazine,

7:41

still others prefer to highlight their indigenous

7:44

which doesn't really fit with any of the terms

7:46

described above. According

7:49

to NBC Latino, in 2017,

7:51

the term Latinx had started

7:53

appearing in mainstream media and

7:55

even Hispanic media, but

7:58

it still hasn't been widely adopted. In

8:01

2020, the Pew Research Center reported that while

8:03

25% of those who identified as Hispanic

8:07

or Latino had heard of

8:09

Latinx, only 3% used the term. And

8:13

according to a December 2021 poll by Ben Dixon and

8:15

Amandi, only 2% of Hispanic voters aged

8:20

18 to 29 would use

8:22

Latinx to describe themselves. 60%

8:26

preferred the term Hispanic. The

8:29

poll further found that, quote,

8:31

30% of Hispanic voters were

8:33

less likely to support a

8:35

politician or political organization using

8:37

the word, unquote. Due

8:40

to such resistance, even the League

8:42

of United Latin American Citizens, commonly

8:44

known as LULAC, the largest Latino

8:46

civil rights group in the US,

8:49

dropped the term from its official

8:51

communications in December 2021. In

8:54

an NBC News article, the group's director

8:56

Domingo Garcia said that the term

8:59

was very unlike by almost all

9:01

Latinos and that, quote, the Latinx

9:03

community doesn't want to be called

9:06

Latinx, unquote. In

9:08

his announcement, Garcia referred to a

9:10

Miami Herald editorial that cited the

9:12

same poll saying that 40% of

9:15

respondents were, quote, bothered or

9:17

offended, unquote, by Latinx. According

9:20

to this article, the term, quote, had

9:22

failed to gain buy-in from the people it's

9:25

supposed to empower. It's time to

9:27

retire it from official use, unquote.

9:30

Nevertheless, some activists strongly support the

9:32

term, noting that Latino is a

9:35

masculine term and Hispanic is connected

9:37

to Spain and that the plural

9:39

form, Latinos, defaults to the masculine.

9:42

Are you thoroughly confused yet? Well, you're

9:45

not alone. Even some

9:47

press varies the terms it uses,

9:49

like in this headline from KSNW

9:51

in Wichita, Kansas, quote,

9:53

Latinx students now eligible to

9:55

apply for Hispanic scholarship,

9:57

unquote. should

10:00

we do? Well, when in doubt,

10:02

ask. The terms that people

10:04

use to refer to themselves, especially in

10:06

a group as diverse as Hispanics or

10:09

Latin Americans, should be honored. So even

10:11

if most people don't seem to like

10:13

Latinx, someday someone may want you to

10:15

use it. The Miami Herald says it

10:17

best, quote, we get it. Spanish grammar

10:20

can be sexist and a foe to

10:22

gender neutrality. People who want

10:24

to be called Latinx should be

10:26

respected, unquote. Now,

10:29

if you're writing and following a

10:31

particular style guide, use its guidance.

10:33

For example, the Associated Press, or

10:35

AP Stylebook, which is the one

10:37

we use, advises using Latino, Latina

10:40

for females, or Hispanic, especially for

10:42

those in the US. The

10:44

guide hasn't officially adopted the term Latinx

10:47

for many of the same reasons we

10:49

already mentioned. It does,

10:51

however, recommend using the term if someone

10:53

requests it, and explaining it

10:55

with a line like Hernandez prefers the

10:57

gender neutral term Latinx. Lastly,

11:00

the AP Stylebook advises to use

11:03

geographic descriptors, such as

11:05

Ecuadorian and Chilean, when possible, since

11:07

many people prefer that, and it's

11:09

more specific. The

11:11

Chicago Manual of Style takes a somewhat

11:13

softer stance, noting that written terms like

11:16

Latino slash A and Latina with an

11:18

at sign at the end invoke

11:20

a gender binary and aren't as

11:23

inclusive as Latinx. Their

11:25

guide states, quote, a preference for

11:27

Latinx or one of the other

11:29

alternative forms should be respected, and

11:32

editors should query authors about their

11:34

preferred usage when in doubt, unquote.

11:37

AP style, commonly used in

11:39

academic writing, recommends all the

11:42

forms we've discussed, and similarly

11:44

recommends, quote, using the terms

11:46

your participants or population uses,

11:48

unquote. And I should

11:50

note that there are many style guides. These are

11:52

only three of the most widely used. So

11:55

the next time you find yourself having to

11:57

choose one of these words, don't fret. see

12:00

what term or terms the person or

12:02

group uses. And if it's not clear,

12:04

just ask them. And remember,

12:06

one of the most amazing things about language

12:08

is how it changes over time. That

12:12

segment was by Susan K.

12:14

Herman, retired U.S. government multi-disciplined

12:16

language analyst, analytic editor, and

12:18

instructor. One

12:23

of the greatest secrets for better corporate

12:26

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12:28

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12:41

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12:54

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13:02

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13:14

That's BIT.L-Y

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guide all lowercase.

13:22

Hi, everyone. I'm Lewis Howes, New York

13:24

Times bestselling author and host of the

13:27

School of Greatness podcast. And today I

13:29

want to personally invite you to check

13:31

out this show. Each week we bring

13:33

you an inspiring message or person to

13:36

help you discover how to unlock your

13:38

inner greatness. You're going to hear from

13:40

the world's top athletes, entrepreneurs, authors, artists,

13:43

industry innovators, business titans, and more. And

13:45

you can find the School of Greatness

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wherever you get your podcasts. And don't

13:49

forget to follow the show so you

13:52

never miss an episode. Check it

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out right now at the School of

13:56

Greatness. Next,

14:02

I have a segment about the verb grow.

14:04

I was surprised by

14:06

the results of a poll I did on my Facebook

14:08

page, which showed that 97% of

14:11

the respondents thought the sentence – we need

14:13

to grow our business – was fine. Now,

14:17

I've heard objections to using the

14:19

verb grow with nonliving things the

14:21

entire time I've been Grammar Girl.

14:23

And in 1994, only

14:25

20% of the American

14:27

Heritage Dictionary usage panel thought that

14:30

sentence was acceptable. They're

14:32

a group of well-known writers, editors, and

14:34

academics who regularly answered similar opinion

14:36

questions for the dictionary. Now,

14:39

admittedly, that was a long time ago,

14:41

but I don't think I've been hearing

14:43

fewer objections in recent years. In fact,

14:45

I ran this poll because a reader

14:47

who objected to the usage suggested it.

14:50

On the other hand, the phrase has never bothered

14:53

me personally. I wrote about it back

14:55

in 2012 in my book, One

14:57

Hundred and One Troublesome Words, and said it

14:59

was fine to use it in business writing,

15:01

but to be wary of using it elsewhere.

15:05

The old objection is that

15:07

inanimate things don't grow. A

15:09

more subtle problem some people

15:11

have raised is that growing

15:13

a business is vague. More

15:16

specific choices could be, we need

15:18

to get more customers, or we

15:20

need to expand into more regions.

15:23

For those of you who don't like it, Brian

15:25

Garner's on your side. In Garner's

15:27

Modern English Usage, he calls it Trendy

15:29

Business Jargon and says to avoid it.

15:33

On the other hand, as some of

15:35

the commenters pointed out, we use metaphors

15:37

all the time in English. And according

15:39

to the Oxford English Dictionary, people were

15:42

using grow in a figurative way, intransitively,

15:44

to mean flourish all the way back

15:46

in old English. So

15:48

long ago, they don't even put a date on

15:51

it. It's just old English. Here's

15:53

an example from 1473 from

15:55

John Warkworth in a chronicle

15:57

about King Edward IV. Low.

16:01

What mischief grows after

16:03

insurrection. But

16:06

transitive use to grow something,

16:08

potatoes and so on, is newer,

16:10

emerging in the 1700s. The

16:13

first transitive use for something that wasn't

16:15

organic like crops or hair was in

16:18

1825 and referred to growing knowledge. But

16:22

the Facebook poll slightly overstates people's

16:25

acceptance of the phrase, grow our

16:27

business. To help me tally

16:29

the results, I ask people to vote just

16:31

fine or wrong, but they can follow their

16:33

vote with a comment. And some

16:36

people qualified their fine vote with a

16:38

comment such as, but I hate it,

16:40

or I would personally

16:42

use a different word. If

16:44

I count those votes separately, only 91%

16:48

said it's fine without any qualifier. But

16:51

all in all, there are far fewer people

16:53

who hate this than I expected, and it's

16:56

clearly become standard. Multiple

16:59

people commented that not only did they think

17:01

it was fine, but they couldn't imagine why

17:03

I was even asking the question. My

17:06

current advice is the same as what I wrote back in

17:08

2012. It's

17:11

fine to use phrases such as grow

17:13

our business or grow the economy in

17:15

business settings. If you

17:17

want to be especially cautious, you may

17:20

want to use them more sparingly in

17:22

other context. But even in

17:24

general writing, I wouldn't call this a

17:26

top pet peeve anymore. And

17:29

while we're on the subject, another objection you

17:31

sometimes hear about the verb grow is that

17:34

you shouldn't use it to talk

17:36

about something becoming smaller, that it's

17:38

illogical to say something like the

17:40

space between us grew smaller, or

17:43

the trees grew smaller, became

17:45

stunted, and disappeared altogether, which

17:48

are both real examples I found in

17:50

the corpus of contemporary American usage. But

17:53

the become meaning of grow is

17:55

old and well established. Shakespeare used

17:58

grow to mean become. and

18:00

it's such a non-issue that Garner doesn't even

18:02

address it. What

18:04

is interesting though, is that Merriam

18:07

Webster's Dictionary of English Usage identified

18:09

a single influential New York writer

18:12

in the 1870s who was the

18:14

original source of the objection. Richard

18:17

Grant White, who strangely enough

18:19

was also a prominent Shakespearean

18:21

scholar. But White's

18:23

influence had dissipated by the 1920s, and

18:27

even usage experts who complained about a lot

18:29

of other things are on the record saying

18:31

they disagree with him and that

18:34

using grow to mean become is in

18:36

the space between us grew smaller is

18:39

fine. So while you

18:41

aren't worrying about people growing their businesses,

18:44

you should also not be worrying

18:46

about anything growing smaller. Finally,

18:52

I have a familect story. Hi Grammar

18:55

Girl, this is Elaine from Wyoming

18:58

and I have a familect stat story for

19:00

you. My former

19:03

husband used to call

19:06

what we got out of the refrigerator

19:08

when we had leftovers, must go,

19:11

because everything in

19:13

the refrigerator must go. I can't

19:16

tell you how to spell it. We pronounced

19:18

it as if it were spelled M-U-S-K-O,

19:23

but it does refer to

19:26

the must go. Anyway, love

19:28

your program. Thanks. Bye bye. Thank

19:31

you, Elaine. I am sure people are going to have

19:33

a lot of must go soon. And if

19:36

you're seeing your family this month, it's a great

19:38

time to talk about your familects and where they

19:40

came from. If you unearth a

19:42

great story, give me a call and leave a voicemail.

19:44

The number is 833-214-GIRL. It's

19:47

in the show notes and it's

19:49

in my email newsletter every week too. And here's

19:52

a reminder, it's not too late to start

19:54

the year with the grammar daily. It's like

19:56

a tip of day calendar you can keep

19:58

forever. The bell is on. book has

20:01

365 pages with tips, cartoons, puzzles,

20:03

and quizzes to entertain you for

20:05

the whole year. It's a

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fully updated version of my 2009 book,

20:10

The Grammar Devotional, but now with

20:12

a more obvious title, The Grammar

20:14

Daily. Grammar Girl

20:16

is a quick and dirty tips

20:18

podcast. Thanks to audio engineer Nathan

20:21

Sams, ad operations specialist Morgan Christensen,

20:23

digital operations specialist Holly Hutchings, director

20:25

of podcasts Brandon Goetjes, marketing assistant

20:28

Cameron Lacy, and marketing associate Davina

20:30

Tomlin, who just learned how to

20:32

do a backflip in circus class

20:35

and clearly lives a much more exciting life than

20:37

I do. And I

20:40

am Mignon Fogarty, better known as

20:42

Grammar Girl. That's all. Thanks for

20:44

listening.