0:00

In the moment, there's ways that

0:02

we can disrupt our own thinking.

0:04

In the moment, there's ways that

0:06

we can disrupt us living in

0:08

a single possibility. And there's

0:10

tools that we can use to

0:12

bring in new energy and new

0:14

ideas and new frames of reference.

0:17

And it changes everything. It just

0:19

opens things back up. And so

0:21

I see failure and setbacks and

0:23

challenges now as an opportunity to

0:25

be creative. And that's really exciting.

0:30

So have you ever felt stuck in a

0:32

rut, kind of unable to break free from

0:34

the repetitive motions of each day? What

0:37

if the solution was right in front

0:39

of you, just waiting to be unlocked

0:41

through the power of curiosity and a

0:44

very special set of tools?

0:47

My guest today, Jeff Karp, knows this

0:49

frustration well. As a child struggling with

0:52

learning differences and ADHD, Jeff was on

0:54

the verge of being held back in

0:56

second grade. Despite his

0:58

challenges, he tapped into his innate

1:01

curiosity, helped by a question from

1:03

a teacher who saw something to

1:05

develop a set of unconventional tools

1:07

and processes that over the years

1:10

have allowed him to not only adapt,

1:12

but to flourish and accomplish stunning

1:15

things in life and science and

1:17

industry. After earning his

1:19

PhD, Jeff went on to become a

1:22

celebrated professor at Harvard Medical School, a

1:24

distinguished chair in anesthesiology at Brigham and

1:26

Women's Hospital, and a fellow of the

1:28

National Academy of Inventors. Fueled

1:31

by what he calls life ignition

1:33

tools, Jeff turned to nature for

1:35

inspiration, transforming lab practices in remarkable

1:37

ways. And the results, Jeff

1:40

has since co-founded a dozen companies

1:42

that have raised over $600 million, secured more than 100 patents,

1:47

and received 50 awards for innovations

1:49

like a tissue glue that

1:51

can seal holes in a beating

1:53

heart. tools,

2:00

use nature's playbook to energize your

2:03

brain, spark ideas, and ignite action.

2:06

He believes that tapping into our innate

2:08

curiosity holds the key to

2:10

living a truly extraordinary life brimming

2:13

with creativity, connection, and purpose. In

2:16

our conversation, Jeff and

2:18

I explore many of these tools

2:20

and mindsets that help him overcome

2:22

learning challenges and transform cutting-edge research

2:25

into real-world solutions. We'll

2:27

discover how embracing curiosity and using

2:29

these tools to make it real

2:31

could take your life from stuck

2:34

to spark. So excited

2:36

to share this conversation with you. I'm

2:38

Jonathan Fields and this is Good

2:40

Life Project. A

2:47

lot can happen in the next three years. A

2:50

chatbot may be your new best friend,

2:52

but what won't change? Needing health insurance.

2:54

UnitedHealthcare Tri-Term Medical Plans are available for

2:57

these changing times. Underwritten by Golden Rule

2:59

Insurance Company, they offer budget-friendly, flexible coverage

3:01

for people who are in between jobs

3:04

or missed open enrollment. The plans last

3:06

nearly three years in some states, with

3:08

access to a nationwide network of doctors

3:10

and hospitals. So for whatever tomorrow brings,

3:13

UnitedHealthcare Tri-Term Medical Plans may be for

3:15

you. Learn more at uh1.edu. Good

3:20

Life Project is sponsored by the ADHD

3:22

Aha podcast hosted by Laura Key. So

3:24

I've been kind of amazed at how

3:26

many conversations I've had lately with people

3:28

later in life who are wondering if

3:30

they have ADHD. It

3:33

can be hard to understand what

3:35

ADHD is by looking at a

3:37

list of symptoms. So in each

3:39

episode of ADHD Aha, you'll hear

3:42

heartfelt interviews about the unexpected, emotional,

3:44

even funny ways that ADHD symptoms

3:46

surface for adults. Like the recent

3:48

episode with ADHD coach Emily Weinberg,

3:50

which really resonated with me. Her story

3:53

about how she was thinking she was

3:55

quote, just lazy before her diagnosis because

3:57

she wasn't hyperactive really struck a chord.

3:59

You're feeling frozen and stuck ruminating

4:02

on mounting to-do lists is just

4:04

so relatable for so many people.

4:06

It's really validating to hear others

4:08

articulate those experiences. Each

4:10

episode of ADHD Aha features candid

4:13

tales of realizing that your loved

4:15

one has ADHD. You'll

4:17

hear the unexpected emotional ways

4:19

that it manifests in adults

4:21

through heartfelt interviews. ADHD Aha

4:23

captures the authentic human experience

4:25

of ADHD. So

4:27

if you want a fresh personal perspective

4:30

that embraces the messiness, listen to

4:32

ADHD Aha. Search

4:34

for ADHD Aha in your podcast

4:37

app. That's ADHD Aha with Aha

4:39

spelled A-H-A. It's an

4:41

Aha moment you won't miss. Good

4:45

Life Project is brought to you by

4:48

Air Doctor, makers of those amazing air

4:50

purifiers I keep in my home studio

4:52

and have been talking about for a

4:54

long time now. So even though I

4:57

talk for a living, my vocal pipes

4:59

could use some help dealing with indoor

5:01

air which can contain so many different

5:03

irritants. Luckily, my trusty Air Doctor uses

5:05

an incredibly advanced ultra-hepa filter to capture

5:08

particles a hundred times smaller than old

5:10

school HEPA filters. We're talking smoke, pollen,

5:12

mold, bacteria, all those nasty micro-critters in

5:14

the air. My Air Doctor just gobbles

5:17

them up so I can podcast and

5:19

breathe and write and be in peace

5:21

and with peace of mind. So give

5:23

your indoor air a purification boost with

5:25

Air Doctor. Air Doctor comes with a

5:27

30-day, breathe-easy, money-back guarantee. So if you

5:30

don't love it, just send it back

5:32

for a refund minus shipping. Head to

5:34

airdoctorpro.com and use the promo code GOODLIFE

5:36

and you'll receive up to $300 off

5:40

air purifiers. Exclusive

5:42

to podcast customers, you'll also receive

5:44

a free 3-year warranty on any unit

5:46

which is an additional $84 value. So

5:50

lock this special offer

5:52

in by going to

5:54

airdoctorpro.com or airdoctorpro.com or

5:57

just click the link

5:59

below. in the show notes and use

6:01

the promo code GOODLIFE. I

6:05

think an interesting starting point. As we speak, you're

6:08

a professor, you founded a dozen

6:11

or so companies raised over

6:13

$600 million. Inventions include a

6:15

photo curable adhesive tech for

6:17

tissue destruction, a nasal spray

6:19

that neutralizes everything from COVID

6:22

to flu, pneumonia, E. coli,

6:24

RSV, targeted therapy for

6:26

brain disorders, osteoarthritis, inflammatory bowel disease,

6:28

needles that automatically stop at their

6:30

target to deliver genes every end,

6:33

a bioengineered material that temporarily

6:36

coats the intestine, reducing blood sugar

6:38

spikes, that's kind of being hailed

6:40

as a potential replacement for bariatric

6:42

surgery. And yet, when

6:45

you were a kid, your teacher

6:47

wanted to hold you back in school. Take me

6:49

there. Yeah, let's go back

6:51

to the second grade. Westmount Public

6:53

School in Peterborough, Ontario, about an hour

6:55

and a half northeast of Toronto, nothing

6:58

was sinking in nothing. I wasn't connecting

7:00

socially with anybody. My mom

7:03

tried flashcards, she tried phonics,

7:06

nothing was working. And I was frustrated. I

7:08

was angry. I felt like an alien. I

7:10

felt like I didn't belong. I was misunderstood.

7:12

I felt in some ways I

7:14

was almost like placed in a world that was

7:17

different than the world I should be in really, you

7:19

know. And at the

7:21

end of the year, the teacher held

7:24

a conference with my parents and said, I'd

7:27

like to, Mr. Steadwell, I remember his name, he

7:30

said, I want to hold Jeff Bakke here to

7:32

repeat the grade. And my

7:34

parents negotiated that if I spent

7:36

the summer with tutors catching up,

7:39

that I could go on to

7:41

the third grade. And so all

7:43

my classmates went on vacation. And

7:46

here I am in summer school. And

7:48

I'll never forget one day I went

7:50

in, and the tutor

7:53

read a passage, I gave

7:55

some answers, she was asking a bunch of

7:57

questions. And Then for one of them,

7:59

she paused and. He looked me in the eye

8:01

and she said. How. Did you think

8:03

about that? He's and.

8:06

Nobody had ever ask me that question

8:08

before and it was almost like this

8:10

portal this Sam this kind of opened

8:13

in my mind into this heightened state

8:15

of awareness. Like it's not hard to

8:17

describe to them in a looking looking

8:19

back on it by it's it was

8:22

transformational like that is that made such

8:24

an emphasis in what he did was

8:26

I think it allowed me. For.

8:28

The first time to think about thinking to

8:30

think before I spoke. You know, teachers are

8:33

always telling me to think before I smoke

8:35

and I really didn't know how to do

8:37

that or what that meant. But when I

8:39

was asked that question, how did you think

8:42

about that and. I. Was almost like

8:44

I didn't know was how to answer

8:46

it at the time and know but

8:48

that created this irritation in my mind

8:50

that okay maybe I think so to

8:52

have these constructs in my mind before

8:55

I start speaking. So what happened was

8:57

as I started hitting this awareness and

8:59

started growing and I started applying it

9:01

everywhere my life when it was really

9:03

a survival mechanism because I was getting

9:05

season these and and just you know

9:07

doing horribly in school. One example is

9:10

I started to notice that any time

9:12

I asked a question. I

9:14

would be able to hyper focus and

9:16

anything that was said in those few

9:18

moments after would imprints in my mind.

9:20

Not to short term memory, but I'd

9:22

actually be able to kind of stored

9:24

in my long term memory and I

9:26

be able to recall it later on

9:28

and I started to realize that here

9:30

I am sitting in class a super

9:32

distracted i mean I an undiagnosed idiots

9:34

the and learning differences in i didn't

9:36

know it's my parents did know my

9:38

teacher certainly didn't know it's and I

9:40

realized that asking questions was gonna be

9:42

t to my. learning process it was

9:44

really the only way that i

9:46

could learn so i started to

9:49

ask inserted experiment with asking questions

9:51

and i started to would i

9:53

would say is like engage in

9:55

pattern recognition i would ask things

9:57

or say things and watch people's

9:59

reactions to them and use that as

10:01

a way to figure out the world. And

10:04

so my life has literally been

10:06

a living laboratory. My entire

10:08

life still to this day, even

10:11

though I did get identified with having learning

10:13

differences in the seventh grade, my mom actually

10:15

had to go up against the school system

10:18

to do it because they just were under

10:20

resourced and she put a file

10:22

together, went to the board of education, got

10:25

me identified. My grades went

10:27

from season Bs to straight As because

10:29

I'd been developing all these tools from

10:32

the third grade to the seventh grade to try to

10:34

learn. And I'll

10:36

just give you one example. When I

10:38

saw the movie Terminator, there's one scene

10:40

in the movie where this screen kind

10:42

of pops up in his computer

10:45

system, whatever it is, and it's like he

10:47

has to give a response and there's four

10:49

options and he picks one. And

10:52

it was like that's how I felt

10:54

and still feel this day in most

10:57

of my life. I see so many possibilities

10:59

when I'm asked questions. I'm never sure what

11:01

the right answer is. And

11:04

it makes it actually very difficult for me

11:06

to help my children with their homework because

11:09

they just then they refuse. When I

11:11

offer to help, they always refuse. Just

11:13

give me the answer already. Yeah,

11:16

because I'm trying to figure out what do

11:18

the teacher really want. And I see multiple

11:20

possibilities because a lot of questions are

11:23

open-ended or there's multiple answers. And so

11:25

I struggled with that my whole life.

11:27

And therefore, I'll just say one more

11:29

thing, is I feel like

11:32

a lot of my life kind of

11:34

getting back to that living laboratory, I've

11:36

experimented with so many things and road-tested

11:38

things where it's almost like I need

11:41

to feel what I'm not to know

11:43

what I am. So a

11:45

lot of people say just be yourself. And to

11:47

me, the reason that's unhelpful

11:49

to me is because I don't have a

11:51

process to be myself. And when I think

11:53

about what is my process, what has my

11:55

process been, it's really been to

11:57

try things out that I see other people.

12:00

I'm doing and then feel if that

12:02

really connects with you know is this

12:04

the right to me And if it

12:06

does I keep it and if it

12:08

doesn't I start trying other things. Yeah

12:10

I mean that makes so much sense.

12:12

Yeah it's so interesting is part of

12:14

what you're what what this brings up

12:16

also is this idea new? Actually speechless,

12:18

very under the bus but also really

12:20

brings in the idea of of cultural

12:22

norms around typically or quote normality. I

12:25

think that year the phrase nerd diversity

12:27

has become he had this a much

12:29

more topic of conversation. But for

12:31

so long the idea of a kid

12:33

being quote different. You. Either.

12:36

Average Or and or of new quote

12:38

Normal and that was the vast majority.

12:41

Kids are you were labeled gifted? Are

12:43

you were labeled different? Different was generally

12:45

not. You're considered in a quote include

12:47

way. And. As.

12:49

Much as cultural norms have changed and

12:51

we've adopted new language or and or

12:54

diversity and honoring that and I still

12:56

feel that so often you know they'd

12:58

be kid who shows up and who

13:00

just can't quite wrap their heads around

13:02

the way that everybody else is told

13:04

to experience everything and there's no certainly

13:06

early pathway to sit as a kid.

13:09

Oh cool. So like you operate differently

13:11

it was. Figure that out. I'm so

13:13

that you can navigate the world and

13:15

with it really works for you. Until

13:17

things knelt down to things really fall.

13:19

Apart on the level where either is

13:21

that kid is just left a cigarette

13:23

out themselves and oftentimes ends up struggling

13:25

for years or decades or somebody steps

13:27

and recognizes what's happening to feel like

13:29

there's been a meaningful shift in the

13:31

way that we processor. or it's still

13:34

kind of simile see mother with different

13:36

language. wow what jumps to

13:38

mind as you're saying that is

13:40

really how we have this massive

13:42

push and our society to do

13:45

things at scale it makes me

13:47

think that of you look at

13:49

the education system the education system

13:52

in some ways could be seen

13:54

as learning at scale and when

13:56

typically you start to scale things

13:59

up to you know, increase the

14:01

numbers and try to, as people say,

14:03

maximize the impact, I think

14:05

you lose, you kind of approach more of

14:07

like catering to the average, it's harder to

14:09

hit the extremes.

14:12

And if we look back at sort

14:14

of where education began, you know,

14:16

hundreds and hundreds of years ago,

14:18

where you had some of these

14:20

greatest philosophers of modern time, what

14:23

we find is that they had, you know, one

14:25

or two or three students at a time. And

14:28

so it was really in small numbers. And

14:30

a lot of it was learning how

14:32

people learn so that they could be

14:35

good mentors and that they could be

14:37

good guides. And I think that what

14:39

happens is is that the education system,

14:41

you know, we've just had increase in

14:44

number of students per teacher has just

14:46

been on the rise and underfunded and

14:48

under innovated and you know, all these

14:50

kind of things. And so I think

14:53

that you're exactly right

14:55

that the average sort

14:57

of catering to the average is a problem

14:59

of doing things at scale. And

15:01

I think everybody's on a spectrum,

15:04

like everybody has their own unique

15:06

sort of aspects of

15:08

neurodiversity, we all have had different experiences,

15:10

we all have different genetics, we think

15:12

about things differently, we actually observe the

15:14

world differently in terms of how we

15:17

explore, you know, with our senses. And

15:19

I think that my mind

15:21

always drifts back to like 12 15,000 years

15:24

ago, when we were hunter gatherers,

15:26

and you know, like just that

15:28

kind of that kind of sense

15:30

when we're, we're in small groups

15:32

working together, we're conserving our energy,

15:35

we're getting a lot of contact

15:37

time with the teachers with the

15:39

people who know, we're getting a

15:41

lot of contact time with nature

15:43

and a lot of

15:45

experiential learning. And so I think

15:48

that kind of fast forward

15:50

to today, I think the education system,

15:52

I mean, there are a lot of good

15:54

things about it. But I think a lot

15:56

of people fall through the cracks, and it

15:58

ends up harming people for their

16:00

entire lives because they believe that they're

16:02

not capable. They believe that there's fear

16:05

that's instilled. I mean, even questions. I

16:07

mean, questions have been so important my

16:09

whole life. And I feel

16:11

everyone's been shamed for asking, you know, a

16:14

stupid question at some point in their life.

16:16

And that creates hesitation that creates fear that

16:18

sticks with you. And then beyond that, for

16:20

me, someone who's just always engaging in process

16:23

and trying to evolve the out of necessity,

16:25

really, I think the

16:27

fact that we're we've been shamed for asking

16:29

a question now we're not actually improving

16:31

our ability to ask questions, which I think

16:34

is just innate in our adaptive, you know,

16:36

how we all have the power to adapt

16:38

and, and our neuroplasticity, you

16:40

know, that the ability to rewire our

16:42

brain. I mean, I've looked at questions

16:45

and been strategically finding ways

16:47

to improve the asking high

16:49

value questions in my life, it's just

16:51

been super essential. So I think,

16:53

yeah, there's a lot of a lot of challenges,

16:55

I think, in the education system. And I think that

16:58

there seems to be some movements happening

17:00

around the world to sort of

17:03

break free from some of the

17:05

conventional approaches of modern society for

17:07

education and trying to do things

17:10

in smaller groups. And I think it becomes a

17:12

lot more meaningful when we when we move to

17:15

do that. Yeah, and I'm totally

17:17

agree. And I see there's there's really

17:19

interesting movements around experiential learning as you

17:21

were talking about. And it's such a

17:24

weird time as well, because kids are

17:26

also there doing the stance

17:28

between trying to actually navigate the

17:30

IRL world in real life world

17:33

around them while also functionally in

17:35

no small part in the virtual

17:37

world. And you've got just

17:39

the complexity that that all brings, you know,

17:41

for you, I know a lot of this

17:43

experience is what led you to, as

17:45

you described, develop basically a toolbox of skills

17:48

of practices of ways of being that

17:51

in the early days, it sounds like it

17:53

was largely a survival mechanism. But

17:55

these then really became a toolkit

17:58

that informs not just just your ability

18:00

to survive, but then you're going to

18:02

step into an experience and truly flourish,

18:04

truly understand how do I operate in

18:06

his own possibility and just do amazing

18:09

things and become who I want to

18:11

be, which eventually becomes this toolbox, which

18:13

becomes actually the center of your new

18:15

book lit. So I want

18:17

to walk through some of those tools because I think

18:19

they're really interesting and probably really valuable to a lot

18:21

of folks who are in a moment in their lives

18:23

where they're kind of stuck and

18:25

trying to figure out how do I

18:27

get from where I am now to

18:30

where I've want to be. One of

18:32

the opening concepts in this toolbox is

18:35

something that I guess you kind of borrow

18:37

from physics, the notion of activation energy. So

18:39

take me into this. Absolutely.

18:41

So I learned about activation energy

18:44

many years ago in school

18:46

and actually when I discovered it, I was like,

18:48

oh my God, I could apply this to so

18:50

many areas of my life as a tool to

18:52

be helpful to evolve and to

18:54

develop skills and things. So

18:57

let's say you have a beaker of

18:59

water and you put two molecules in

19:01

it and those molecules can react, but

19:04

they need certain conditions to react. And

19:06

so you add a bit of heat and they start moving

19:08

around, but not too much is happening and add more heat

19:10

and they move around more. And

19:13

then you add more heat and all of

19:15

a sudden they bombard, they collide and a

19:17

reaction occurs. So the amount of

19:19

heat that you've put into the system is

19:22

the activation energy. It's the amount of energy

19:24

that was needed as an

19:26

input in order for a reaction to

19:28

take place. And as

19:30

soon as I learned that, I thought,

19:32

wow, you know, there's so many things

19:34

in my life that feel low activation

19:37

energy and there's so many things that

19:39

feel high activation energy. So a

19:41

low activation energy could be flipping

19:43

on the TV or watching a

19:45

show or grabbing a

19:47

snack or just sort of

19:50

lying down. You know, for example, I

19:52

mean, it really doesn't take much energy to do these types

19:54

of things or to go, let's say

19:56

on social media, you know, just sort of look

19:58

around a high activation type

20:00

thing maybe let's say I haven't ridden my bike

20:02

in a while and I want to go ride

20:04

my bike again that's gonna take me more energy

20:07

because I'm gonna have to make sure there's air

20:09

in the tires I'm gonna make sure it's safe

20:11

I want to make sure that you know it's

20:13

in good working order I have to find the

20:15

time to go out I just you know I'm

20:17

not gonna go out just for two minutes I

20:19

need to go out for a certain amount of

20:21

time so actually what well give you

20:23

an example a bike example my friend

20:25

Michael Gale called me last summer when

20:28

he was riding his bike and

20:30

he just said Jeff he's like being

20:32

on my bike is my happy place and

20:35

I immediately I could hear the wind going by

20:37

and you know kind of his voice kind of

20:39

fading in now and I was like wow you

20:41

know like I totally could relate to that and

20:43

immediately in that moment I was

20:45

almost like living vicariously through him I was like wow

20:47

like I know it feels so good to be on

20:50

a bike I was like okay

20:52

but I know that if I say I'm

20:54

gonna go home and ride my bike I'm

20:56

setting myself up for likely not doing it

20:58

and then this cycle of self-shame and I

21:00

think that people generally they set

21:03

the goals too high and then they don't

21:05

achieve them and now you start practicing not

21:07

achieving your goals and so what

21:09

I did was I kind of held myself back

21:11

because I think there's a tendency to just try

21:13

and go for it immediately but I held

21:15

myself back which I think kind of pressurizes

21:18

the system and actually lowers the activation energy

21:20

and I said okay today I'm just gonna

21:22

wash my bike up I'm just gonna clean

21:24

it and that's it tomorrow I'm gonna put

21:26

air in the tires and then

21:28

the next day I'm gonna hang my helmet on the

21:30

bike so now I'm like I'm kind of feeling like

21:33

I really want to go but I'm not letting myself

21:35

go I'm just doing one thing at a time and

21:37

I'm lowering the activation energy to be able to get

21:39

on the bike and then I put it in a

21:41

location I go by every day now the only thing

21:44

I need left is 10-15 minutes to get

21:46

on the bike and go around the neighborhood and

21:49

last summer I biked over a thousand miles

21:51

you know I just was able to lower

21:53

the activation energy enough and then keep

21:55

that activation energy low so that

21:57

I would continuously just get on the bike and I... I

22:00

rode into my lab, which is about four

22:02

miles or so from my house. Not

22:04

that far, but I love the bike ride there. Part of it's

22:07

through a forest. I

22:09

think we can break things down like that for

22:11

anything in life that we want to do. We

22:13

can just think about it as how much energy

22:16

is going to be required, and is there a

22:18

way that we can lower the activation energy, but

22:20

not try to lower it all in one step.

22:23

Think of it as multi-steps, and

22:25

in some ways almost hold ourselves back.

22:28

I think the analogy that maybe a lot

22:30

of others I've seen in other places is if you

22:32

want to go to the gym, one of the

22:34

steps could just be you walk by the gym,

22:36

you walk around the gym, you go in and

22:39

you just talk to them, but you choose specifically

22:41

not to go work out that day. There's

22:43

ways that we can tap into our

22:45

psychology to help us be motivated and

22:48

create the momentum to do the things

22:50

that we really want to do. Yeah,

22:53

I mean, it's really interesting what you're describing also. I

22:55

don't know if you're familiar with BJ Fogg's work, but

22:58

he has a behavioral model that basically

23:00

says any new behavior is a factor

23:03

of motivation, ability, and a trigger. He

23:06

says when people think about it, like, oh, I want to

23:08

do this new thing. I want to go, like you said,

23:10

I want to go work out. I want to ride my

23:12

bike every day, whatever it may be, that's the new behavior.

23:15

Most people focus on the motivation side of it. How do I

23:17

motivate myself to do it? How do I pump myself up? How

23:20

do I save the affirmations? How do I have a friend who's

23:22

like, oh, do it, yeah, yeah, yeah. But

23:24

he said the research shows, and you're sort of

23:26

supporting this, and it's the ability

23:28

side that actually is the

23:30

much, much more powerful thing that actually

23:33

makes you do the thing. And oftentimes,

23:36

that's just do I have the ability to do the

23:38

thing? And he says it's a matter

23:40

of removing friction. And part of the way

23:42

that you do that is what you're describing, too, is sort of

23:44

like, how can I chunk this down into the simplest thing? So

23:47

it's almost impossible not to do. It's like, oh,

23:49

please, how can I not do that? Sounds

23:52

like that's what you're describing. But you

23:54

know, BJ Fogg's model overlaid with yours

23:56

is kind of like most people would

23:58

say, well, something has a quote, high

24:00

activation energy, requires a lot of energy to

24:03

put into the system to get it to

24:05

happen or to make me do it. I

24:07

just need to motivate myself to overcome that

24:09

level of activation energy. And what sounds like

24:11

both of you are saying, you

24:13

could try that, but that's probably not the thing

24:15

that's gonna make it work long term. Like really

24:17

look at like, how do you

24:19

lower what it takes to be able to

24:21

say yes to it in the first place?

24:23

That's the sustainable way to actually go from

24:25

inertia to actually inaction. Is that

24:28

right? Yeah, no, absolutely, absolutely, 100%. And

24:30

to me, I think what

24:33

I found in sort of iterating and experimenting

24:35

with various processes, from time to time,

24:37

I just need to reframe something completely differently.

24:39

And so, you know, one of the reframes

24:41

is just breaking things down into steps. And

24:44

you know, that worked for me for a little

24:46

while, but what has really resonated and worked for

24:48

me for a long period of time is just

24:50

thinking of things in terms of the amount of

24:53

energy required. It's just something I feel I can

24:55

connect with. And I think the

24:57

thing is, is like, I've found that there's tools where

24:59

I feel like a lot of people use them and

25:01

then I try them and it doesn't work. And

25:03

so I feel there is this sort

25:05

of experimentation that's required. And I

25:08

think, you know, there's a lot of, I

25:10

feel like there's just so much hesitation in

25:12

experimenting or even just taking the first step

25:14

in anything. And one of the

25:17

ways we've kind of reframed that in my

25:19

laboratory is to think

25:21

like, instead of thinking that a

25:23

step is gonna lead us to

25:25

an outcome, a tangible outcome, we

25:27

do a reframe where we say

25:29

the step is going to help

25:32

us learn something. It might be

25:34

tiny, but together these tiny things

25:36

become important. And so what

25:38

kind of first step can we take where

25:41

we might just gain an insight or have

25:43

the possibility of gaining an insight that

25:45

others don't have or something that

25:47

might lead us towards a solution

25:50

or tell us to not go

25:52

in a particular direction. And I

25:54

think when we start to reframe

25:56

from these expectations of a particular

25:58

outcome to rather. learning, and

26:01

even if it's learning on the nano scale,

26:03

then it becomes easier, I've found,

26:05

to take that first step to

26:07

lower the activation energy to create

26:10

momentum. Yeah, that makes so

26:12

much sense because then there's no success

26:14

or failure in those micro steps. It's

26:17

just, did I learn something? And if you did, you're

26:19

always going to learn something if you're paying attention,

26:21

then that is a success. And then it gives

26:23

you this momentum, the confidence to move on to

26:26

the next one. One more thing to add to

26:28

that, which is something that just recently has been

26:30

really helpful for me. And

26:32

it's thinking of things in terms

26:34

of generations. So I'll give you an

26:36

example. I recently was

26:38

invited to give a talk at

26:40

Stanford on Lit, the book,

26:43

and I haven't given a talk on

26:45

Lit before. And so I have

26:48

kind of a standard talk that I give, and

26:50

I've been evolving that through my career and I'm

26:52

updating it as new data, new projects, things like

26:54

that. But I really wanted

26:56

to create a brand new talk, a whole

26:58

new lecture, and really get into some of

27:00

the details of the tools that I've just

27:03

found really useful. But

27:05

I sort of set this expectation for myself

27:07

that I really wanted to just hit

27:09

it out of the park, right? Like I felt myself

27:11

gravitate towards like, I just, I need to really like

27:13

crush this. I have to, you know, and I practice

27:15

in front of so many people and go over and

27:17

over. But what I was able to do was kind

27:19

of bring myself back and say, Jeff, this

27:22

is Gen 1.0. I'm

27:25

going to probably be giving this type of

27:27

a lecture and evolving it and iterating it

27:30

till like generation 20. And

27:32

then maybe once it gets to 20, maybe

27:34

I'll be just tweaking it here and there.

27:37

But maybe the first, you know, 5, 10,

27:39

15, 20 times I give it, I'll be

27:41

making some major changes based on sort of

27:43

sensing the room, sensing myself being open to

27:45

the cues to kind of help guide me

27:48

towards am I really connecting people? Is this

27:50

the right order? Do I need to illuminate

27:52

certain things more or not? And

27:55

so I was able to go

27:57

into that talk with that mentality.

27:59

this is, I'm gonna do the best I

28:01

can at this moment, but this is generation 1.0,

28:04

and I'm there to serve and

28:06

to tell people what I've done and share it

28:08

in the most authentic way, but I'm also

28:10

there to learn how can I improve on it

28:14

for the next time. And

28:16

that to me just really, it

28:18

becomes exciting because I'm, again,

28:21

it's part of the laboratory sort of

28:23

like model or mentality, that kind of

28:25

like constantly iterating and trying to improve

28:28

on things and that there really is

28:30

no sort of end point where you just

28:32

never change it, you know? Like it's always

28:34

gonna change. There's always things you're gonna wanna

28:36

add. There's new perspectives that you'll gain and

28:39

you'll wanna add it into the talk. And

28:41

so I just have found that that's been

28:43

incredibly useful in my life to think of

28:45

things in terms of like gen 1.0, 2.0,

28:49

3.0 for almost every new thing that I do. Yeah,

28:51

that's such a great reframe. And I think

28:53

so helpful for folks who like step into

28:55

something and basically say, oh, I have to

28:57

succeed immediately. I have to make this work,

28:59

you know? It's not realistic.

29:01

And also it puts a level

29:03

of pressure on you that probably builds underlying

29:06

anxiety that actually makes it harder to

29:08

even do that thing that you wanna do. It's

29:10

interesting too, because you're describing this as almost like

29:12

a scientific process. You know, like this is what

29:14

you do in science, but this

29:16

is also the process of standup comedy. You

29:19

know, like there's no standup comic who gets up

29:21

on the stage the first time and says, I'm

29:23

gonna be the best comic ever. I'm just gonna

29:25

knock this out of the park. Everybody in that

29:27

space knows it's gonna take years

29:29

of, you take one bit and

29:31

you're probably gonna be testing it and refining it

29:33

for years until you finally are at a point

29:36

where you're like, oh yeah, like that's it. And

29:38

that's one bit out of maybe like an hour's

29:40

worth of work. And it's so

29:42

interesting to me that we do have these domains

29:44

in life where the expectation is that that's how

29:46

it's gonna go. But then like there's

29:48

a whole rest of things where people just, we

29:51

step into it with these wild expectations that we'll

29:53

step in and out of the gate, we're

29:55

just gonna be the best that we can be, which

29:58

can be such a brutalizing experience. that make

30:00

us run away from something that,

30:03

but for the fact that we had expectations that

30:05

were really defeating, could have been an amazing part

30:07

of our life. Yeah, so I'm so

30:09

glad you brought that up because I

30:12

was listening to Jerry Seinfeld talk

30:14

about some podcasts and he talks

30:16

exactly like he goes to

30:18

certain places and he road tests it and

30:20

me, I'm sort of, I step back and

30:23

I'm thinking about this like he's one of

30:25

the greatest comics of all time and

30:27

in my mind, it's almost like I'm projecting myself

30:29

to be like, if I was in his shoes,

30:32

my expectation would be that I wouldn't need to

30:34

road test things, but you do. Regardless

30:37

of how proficient or how far

30:39

you get in something, you always need to

30:41

road test and it, to me, I see

30:44

a lot of parallels in nature and

30:46

just how ecosystems evolve

30:48

and how nature, in

30:51

some levels when you kind of look at

30:53

it, maybe from a holistic perspective, you

30:56

see that nature is really experimenting

30:59

constantly. Like nature is just one

31:01

big laboratory and some

31:03

creatures become extinct and die

31:05

off and others don't and

31:07

it's hard sort of as humans,

31:10

looking through human lenses to kind of

31:12

predict what's going to survive, what's going

31:14

to make it and it

31:16

seems as though just the force of nature

31:18

which is within all of us and

31:20

if we can kind of look at it that

31:23

way, it could be very empowering because it's a

31:25

very experimental process and so I think

31:27

that by engaging this way, we're

31:29

really engaging in a natural process.

31:31

Yeah, that makes so much sense.

31:39

If you're struggling to lose weight, you've probably

31:41

heard about weight loss medications like Wigovi or

31:43

Zepbound and you might be wondering if they're

31:45

right for you. Meet PlushCare,

31:47

a leading telehealth provider with doctors who

31:49

are there for you day and night

31:52

to partner with you in your weight

31:54

loss journey. If you qualify, they

31:56

can safely prescribe you medication from the comfort

31:58

of your own home. To

32:00

get started, visit

32:03

plushcare.com/weight loss. That's

32:05

plushcare.com/weight loss. plushcare.com/weight

32:07

loss. Good

32:12

Life Project is sponsored by Wonderful

32:14

Pistachios. So listen up while you

32:16

busy bosses running around town, fueling

32:18

your days with sad desk snacks.

32:20

This is a PSA that it's

32:22

time to give your afternoon pick-me-up

32:25

a super yummy and very crunchtastic

32:27

makeover with Wonderful Pistachios. I'm talking

32:29

6 grams of complete

32:31

plant-based protein packed into every satisfyingly

32:33

crackable crunchable ounce. That's all 9

32:35

essential amino acids. So whether you're

32:38

an old-school roasted and salted fan,

32:40

which is kind of me actually,

32:42

or you like to walk your taste

32:44

buds over to the wild side with

32:46

jalapeno lime, Wonderful Pistachios have a flavor

32:48

for every craving. And if you don't

32:51

want to crack shells, which I happen

32:53

to love doing for some odd reason,

32:55

Wonderful Pistachios no shells lets you skip

32:57

the mess and get right to the

32:59

sun. So do yourself a flavor, Pistachio

33:02

people. Make your snacks more nutritious and

33:04

delicious with the protein punch of Wonderful

33:06

Pistachios. Your 3pm hunger pangs and taste

33:08

buds will thank you. And quit settling

33:10

for those sad desk snacks

33:12

you deserve better. Visit wonderful

33:15

pistachios.com and get cracking. Good

33:20

Life Project is sponsored by Lexus GX.

33:22

So have you ever owned something that

33:24

inspired you to just up your game?

33:26

For me, it was this high-end mountain

33:28

bike. I love the ultralight frame, the

33:30

suspension, the precision gearing, and I realized

33:32

it deserved to be ridden to its

33:34

full potential. So I started training harder

33:36

so I could experience the joy it

33:38

could give back to me. And it

33:40

paid off. That bike helped me discover

33:42

just new levels of performance and straight

33:44

up joy. When we own exceptional things,

33:46

they inspire us to do exceptional things.

33:48

The all-new Lexus GX has an

33:51

exceptional capability that will have you

33:53

seeing possibilities you never knew existed.

33:55

Its advanced technology and luxurious interior

33:57

mean that wherever you go, you'll

34:00

never go without. Imagine tackling rugged

34:02

landscapes with the available 33-inch all-terrain

34:05

tires and multi-terrain select, then unwinding

34:07

with the available front row massaging

34:10

seats. This is a vehicle that

34:12

inspires you to go further to

34:14

live up to its full potential.

34:16

So why settle? Live up to

34:19

the all-new Lexus GX. Luxury beyond

34:21

limits. Experience amazing at your Lexus

34:23

dealer. Good

34:26

Life Project is brought to you by

34:28

AirDoctor, makers of those amazing air purifiers

34:30

I keep in my home studio and

34:32

have been talking about for a long

34:35

time now. So even though I talk

34:37

for a living, my vocal pipes could

34:39

use some help dealing with indoor air

34:41

which can contain so many different irritants.

34:44

Luckily, my trusty AirDoctor uses an incredibly

34:46

advanced ultra HEPA filter to capture particles

34:48

a hundred times smaller than old school

34:50

HEPA filters. We're talking smoke, pollen, mold,

34:52

bacteria, all those nasty micro critters in

34:55

the air. My AirDoctor just gobbles them

34:57

up so I can podcast and breathe

34:59

and write and be in peace

35:01

and with peace of mind. So

35:03

give your indoor air a purification

35:05

boost with AirDoctor. AirDoctor comes with

35:08

a 30-day breathe easy money-back guarantee.

35:10

So if you don't love it,

35:12

just send it back for a

35:14

refund minus shipping. Head to airdoctorpro.com

35:16

and use the promo code Good

35:18

Life and you'll receive up to

35:20

$300 off air purifiers exclusive to

35:22

podcast customers. You'll also receive a

35:24

free three-year warranty on any unit

35:26

which is an additional $84 value.

35:29

So lock this special offer

35:32

in by going to air.com

35:34

or airdoctorpro.com or just click

35:36

the link in

35:40

the show notes and use the

35:43

promo code Good Life. One of

35:45

the things that you, this is a whole focus of

35:47

yours in the book, but also you sort of keep

35:49

bringing it up in different ways is the

35:52

role of questions in our ability to

35:54

actually really come alive in life and

35:56

do amazing things. And when

35:58

somebody must think about questions, right? I feel

36:01

like gloss over the question part. We

36:03

think we know the question and we

36:05

focus on like want to be

36:07

amazing what they try and figure out the answer

36:09

or the end state or the outcome. It's all

36:11

about, you know, like, okay, so we

36:13

know the question and let's not spend too much

36:16

time on it. It's quote obvious. Let's just get

36:18

to the like the process of getting to the

36:20

answer. And you have

36:22

a really interesting reset. This is

36:24

not so fast. Like let's actually

36:26

really spend a lot more time

36:28

on the questions themselves. Because

36:31

not only are they determinative of everything

36:33

that will happen that will get you

36:35

to a potential answer, but the questions

36:37

themselves have so much to

36:40

like living in the question, your language, right?

36:42

Living for the question. Is there

36:44

so much that you can get just from

36:47

that process? Yeah, wow.

36:49

I mean, questions. Okay, I'll give you

36:51

a couple stories. I think

36:53

kind of illuminate how questions have just become

36:55

so critical in my life. And not just

36:58

the questions that I've asked, but

37:00

also the questions that I haven't asked have really

37:03

led to all sorts of twists and

37:05

turns. Maybe I'll start with what

37:07

happened to me when I got to University of

37:09

Toronto graduate school. And you know, by that

37:12

time I was tuned into questions, I was

37:14

asking a lot of questions, I felt like

37:16

I was pretty proficient in questions. But I

37:19

was about to learn a whole new level

37:21

of questioning. So I

37:23

went to, I would go to

37:25

these seminar speakers, you know, they'd have them come in

37:27

once a month, or you know, a couple times, like

37:29

once every other week, whatever it was. And,

37:31

you know, kind of like fading in and

37:33

out, trying to with my attention, kind of,

37:35

you know, all over the place and get

37:37

to the end to the to the question

37:40

period. And all of a

37:42

sudden, the arrows start flying. So it's like

37:44

in, you know, in academia, I was amazed,

37:46

I couldn't believe it, like right to the

37:49

heart of the question, right to the heart

37:51

of the talk. So the

37:53

person who spoke like it was like

37:55

people were just asking the most important

37:58

questions. And I just saw the them

38:00

as arrows, because it was like, you

38:02

know, people just lined up like shooting

38:04

them, bullseye every time. And, you know,

38:07

I didn't have any arrows, I didn't have

38:10

any of these questions, they weren't coming to

38:12

my mind. And I started

38:14

to kind of shame myself, like, what's wrong with

38:16

me? Why am I not thinking of the questions

38:18

that others here are coming up with? And

38:21

I quickly sort of transitioned to a

38:23

different frame of reference, which was, okay,

38:25

how can I learn to ask

38:27

these questions? Because what I realized in my

38:29

life is if there's ever something

38:31

I'm not good at, or I can't do,

38:33

it's not forever. It's really I'm just means

38:35

I'm just not engaging the right process

38:37

that works for me. And so

38:40

I thought, okay, I need to engage a

38:42

process here. It's not going to happen by

38:44

just going to these lectures. So I used

38:46

to play chess with my dad when I

38:49

was younger, and I started thinking about chess,

38:51

and how what separates an amateur chess player

38:53

from an expert chess player is pattern recognition.

38:56

And being able to think ahead, you know, 1011 12 moves, it's all

38:58

patterns. And so

39:01

I thought, Okay, well, how could I bring

39:03

that to questions? And

39:05

so what I did was, the next

39:08

seminar I went to everybody was

39:10

focused on what was being presented,

39:12

I was focused on something

39:14

completely different. I was focused on the questions

39:16

that people were asking at the end of

39:19

the seminars. In fact, I wrote them all

39:21

down. And so I would

39:23

start going to seminars to hear the questions.

39:26

And I wrote pages and pages. And so after

39:28

a couple months, I

39:30

started to look over those questions,

39:32

and I noticed patterns. And

39:35

it was like a light bulb moment for me

39:37

when I started to identify these patterns, because it

39:39

gave me a sense of

39:42

the motivation that people had

39:44

for asking these questions. So I'll give

39:46

you an example, there were like four

39:48

or five key categories. So one group

39:50

of questions that often get asked is

39:53

around was the experimental setup like

39:55

was was the experiment actually working properly?

39:58

There's a lot that goes involved in

40:00

doing an experiment and a lot can

40:02

go wrong. And so the experimenter needs

40:04

to have all sorts of different controls

40:06

to figure to make sure that the

40:09

experiment's working properly. So there are a

40:11

lot of questions around that. There

40:13

are also a bunch of questions around

40:15

the importance of the work. So somebody,

40:18

let's say, is doing an experiment to

40:20

develop a diagnostic device for blood, and

40:22

they did all of their experiments in

40:24

saltwater saline, then the results, even if

40:27

they're spectacular, may not yet be important

40:29

because they haven't done it in

40:31

this complex system that would represent

40:33

the final goal of the project.

40:35

And there were questions around statistics

40:38

as well, you know, whether the

40:40

results were actually led to meaningful

40:42

differences. And there were a

40:44

few other things. And so when I started to clue

40:46

into that, I was like, Aha, like, wow,

40:48

so now I wasn't thinking of the

40:51

questions, per se, I was thinking about

40:53

the motivation behind them, you know, so

40:55

I went to the next lecture.

40:58

And I almost felt like I

41:00

had my detective hat on because now I

41:02

was paying attention to what they're saying, I'm

41:04

trying to find holes in their work, right?

41:06

I'm trying to see like, okay, was there

41:08

experiment like I'm going in, I'm like, was

41:10

there experiment working, like check, check, check, x,

41:12

no, they didn't have that control are the

41:14

results important. And I'm sort of thinking about

41:16

it from that angle, I'm looking at their

41:18

statistics. And so all of a sudden, I

41:20

was able to start coming up with these

41:22

questions. And not only that,

41:25

because I was now more focused on

41:27

what they were saying, the information was

41:29

sinking into my mind a lot better.

41:31

So I had was able to then

41:34

connect it to the knowledge that was

41:36

already there. And I started being able

41:38

to do lateral thinking to come up

41:40

with new ideas for the next experiment

41:42

for them, or another application where they

41:45

could apply what they were doing. And

41:47

so it kind of fueled into creativity.

41:49

And so to me, it's like I

41:51

see questions as a skill that anybody

41:53

can improve on. And for example, you

41:56

know, if you're at a social event, and

41:58

you kind of feel like, and this is

42:00

happening many times, kind of feel like, oh, I want to

42:03

talk to people, but I don't, you know, and I know

42:05

questions are like a way to

42:07

go in, but what question do I

42:09

ask? And so I'll actually observe the

42:11

people who are really good at schmoozing

42:13

and listening to what questions they're asking.

42:16

Because when I start to do that,

42:18

I start to understand how

42:20

to really connect with people. And then

42:22

I think when you listen to the

42:24

answers, you deepen those connections. So I

42:26

just I really feel, and one

42:29

other point, I think is just so important to bring out it

42:31

is just that idea. I think we spoke about

42:33

a little earlier, just that people have been shamed

42:35

for asking the stupid question or some

42:38

point in their life. And

42:40

questions are a skill. And I think

42:42

everybody can practice them. And they've been

42:44

transformative in my work. I'll give you

42:46

one more example. At almost every lab

42:48

meeting, I will ask the following

42:50

question, which which it took me a while

42:52

to figure out to ask this question, but

42:54

it's key and it creates a North Star

42:56

for pretty much every project in our lab.

42:59

So we are focused on,

43:02

in my lab, the process of medical

43:04

problem solving in the functional sense, the

43:07

goal is not to just publish papers,

43:09

rather, we want to take what we

43:11

develop and bring it to patients as

43:13

quickly as possible. That's the main goal

43:16

of my laboratory. And I

43:18

realized that I needed to ask questions

43:20

that would help with that process to

43:22

shepherd towards that end goal. And

43:25

over time, I realized there was one question

43:27

that I could ask that

43:29

was essential. And

43:31

I asked this question, what

43:34

is the bar that we need

43:36

to exceed to get

43:38

others excited? In other

43:41

words, what's the best result anyone

43:43

has ever achieved in a particular

43:46

model or experimental system? How

43:48

much better do we need to do

43:51

in order to claim that we've really

43:53

moved the needle enough that investors might

43:55

come in and be excited that our

43:58

scientific colleagues are excited about this? advance

44:00

that we've made. And by making

44:02

that the North Star, and it's not

44:04

an easy question to answer,

44:07

but it's a process of thinking

44:09

about how to answer that question

44:11

and conducting experiments towards supporting an

44:13

answer that to that question, that

44:16

I think is one of the major reasons

44:18

why almost every major project in my lab

44:20

has turned into a company

44:23

and, you know, bringing technologies to

44:25

patients. So I really feel like questions

44:28

are just untapped in many ways

44:30

and there's simple steps we can take

44:32

to get to these high value questions

44:34

in all aspects of life. Yeah, I

44:36

mean, it really brings so are the

44:39

importance of not just rushing to try

44:41

and like dial in the most basic

44:43

question and then pursue the answer, but

44:45

really, really spend time on

44:47

what are the better questions before we

44:50

even get to it. And

44:52

as you're describing that, I'm thinking somebody who's

44:54

listening to this, there's probably so many different

44:56

applications, you know, so many people

44:58

have shown up at a dinner party, it

45:00

felt really uncomfortable not knowing anybody in the

45:02

room or a meeting or a business event,

45:04

or maybe so many people

45:06

have started new jobs in new companies

45:09

or entire new industries. And over the

45:11

last couple of years, you drop into

45:13

a new work setting, and maybe you

45:15

feel confident in your domain expertise, but

45:19

it's entirely a new place. And on

45:21

the one hand, you want to quote, prove your worth

45:23

and contribute. But on the other hand, you're sitting around

45:25

a table on a regular basis, or maybe you're working

45:28

in a team where you don't know the

45:30

dynamic, you don't know the social dynamic, the

45:32

power dynamic, like what the actual work

45:34

has been within this context.

45:37

And what you're describing is this like

45:40

a process of really paying intense attention

45:42

to a the

45:44

questions that are being asked on

45:46

a regular basis, be the underlying

45:48

motivation behind those questions,

45:51

to then potentially see can I

45:53

categorize these to understand

45:56

like what are people trying to elicit

45:58

on a regular basis. And

46:00

then the other part of it that I'm

46:02

curious about is whether you

46:04

paid much attention to how both

46:07

the person being asked the question responded,

46:09

not verbally in terms of what the answer

46:11

was, but actually like what

46:14

the contextual response was. Was

46:16

it a physical eye roll? Was it a like,

46:18

or did others around the table or in the

46:21

room kind of like how people

46:23

responded, which I would imagine would also

46:25

give you data about whether

46:27

the person being asked the question and

46:29

those in the community, how

46:32

they valued that question and whether it was something

46:34

that you thought you would put into a bucket

46:36

that says, let me understand this more, or let

46:38

me kind of put it off to the side

46:40

as not something that is really, you

46:43

know, makes a lot of sense trying to emulate or

46:45

figure out or deconstruct. Well, I

46:47

know I think you're on to something big here. I

46:51

think that I have found

46:53

myself in many instances, watching

46:56

for cues from people in

46:58

terms of yeah, their eyes, their

47:01

reactions, the visceral reactions that they're

47:03

having when they're asked certain questions,

47:05

because my life really

47:07

has been this this laboratory. And

47:09

I feel I've asked questions early

47:12

in my life that I think have made

47:14

people feel uncomfortable and have

47:16

been dead end questions and

47:18

have weren't

47:20

the questions that I like maybe it didn't come

47:22

out the right way. And you know, went in

47:25

a direction that I didn't want to go in

47:27

that direction, want to go to another direction. And

47:29

so I feel there's a lot to it when

47:31

you make the intention to focus

47:33

on the cues, the

47:35

non verbal cues, as let's say

47:37

I'm interacting with other people, it's

47:40

just been really important because I

47:42

have, especially earlier in my

47:44

life had such a difficult time connecting

47:46

with people in meaningful ways. And

47:48

I think you know, I really had to pay

47:51

attention to those cues. And I had to experiment

47:53

with like what to say what not to say

47:55

how to say it how not to say it.

47:58

And so now, when I say things in

48:00

ways maybe the tone of voice is not

48:02

you know, right, maybe I'm like rushing towards

48:05

something and I'm too fast Like I know

48:07

it in that moment and

48:09

it just I have that awareness now

48:11

because I've paid so much attention to

48:13

it And it's something that

48:15

I'm constantly working on is trying to find

48:17

ways So that

48:19

I'm connecting with people

48:21

through my questions and other ways of

48:24

interacting in the most Genuine

48:26

kind of meaningful ways and it I had

48:29

this anticipation I think for a long time that

48:31

it would just be natural like do you know

48:33

people say be yourself or just be authentic and

48:35

You just say it But I realized that it

48:38

really depends on what I was doing the moment

48:40

before like if I was heads down in my

48:42

work And things were really like I'm pushing myself.

48:44

Maybe there's a deadline I have all that

48:46

sort of energy built up that anxious energy

48:48

and then let's say I go spend time

48:50

with my family or friends I'm bringing that

48:53

energy to them and I feel like I

48:55

never used to really be able to to

48:57

clue in to that But

48:59

now I do because I'm clueing into

49:01

the reactions that people

49:03

have and you know My family

49:05

now is so great with me for this because

49:08

I'm ever been working really hard on it But

49:10

they'll they'll actually you know, like in the car

49:12

a couple weeks ago. I was working

49:14

working and I just You

49:17

know, I did something I didn't want to do which

49:19

was you know, I brought my laptop into the car

49:22

I'm sitting in the backseat My wife is

49:24

driving my son's in the front seat my

49:26

wife's asking me a question and I'm sort

49:28

of like trying to get something Done I

49:31

respond But I don't respond the

49:33

right way and my son calls me out

49:35

on it. He's like he literally just busted

49:39

busted and I think back,

49:41

you know a few years ago, whatever my

49:43

ego would just sort of Cause me

49:45

to like say something in return and try to equalize

49:48

it or try to you know Redirect

49:50

it or try to know like that's you know,

49:52

I'm fine blah blah blah But now I sort

49:54

of got into the place where I can hear

49:56

it I can feel the emotions sort of rise

49:59

in me and I can feel that

50:01

my need to say something, but I'm

50:03

able to just not say it. I'm able

50:05

to just let it go and just process

50:07

it. And I find, after a few moments,

50:09

a few minutes, 10 whatever

50:11

minutes, it sort of subsides. And I'm

50:14

like, you were right. You were exactly

50:16

right. And so, yeah,

50:19

I know it's trying to be receptive

50:21

to cues and also not just the

50:23

cues of other people in terms of

50:25

what I'm saying, but also trying to,

50:27

in more real time, get in touch

50:30

with how I am being

50:32

received by the world and sort of listening

50:34

to my own voice and feeling in that

50:36

anxious energy state, or am I in a

50:38

calm state where I can really connect with

50:41

people? Yeah, I mean, that

50:43

really speaks to awareness and the process

50:45

of both understanding how to

50:48

ask or how to seek really good questions,

50:50

but also how to understand. And part of

50:52

the reason I asked also is about

50:55

the question about also observing how people

50:57

respond when you're trying to categorize the

50:59

different questions is, I think we've all

51:02

been in the situation where people

51:04

are asking questions. You kind of look,

51:06

wow, great question, great question, great question.

51:08

And then somebody poses this

51:10

long question. And it

51:13

becomes really clear really quickly to everybody else

51:15

in the room that this

51:17

is not a question in

51:19

search of an answer. This is a question

51:21

designed to try and exert

51:23

dominance or status. I

51:26

know more than you. I'm better than you. And

51:28

I'm going to demonstrate it by either showing you

51:30

how wrong you are or asking you a question

51:32

that tries to trip you up or shows you

51:34

that I have data that's better or different than

51:36

yours or more valuable. That comes up

51:39

all the time. It comes up in meetings. I've been

51:41

on stage. And there's a Q&A afterwards. And there's somebody

51:43

who comes up and asks a

51:45

question like that. And I remember looking at

51:47

the audience. And literally seeing in

51:49

their body language and in their faces everybody kind

51:52

of transmitting like, oh, I know this person. This

51:54

is what they do every time. And can we

51:56

just sort of get to the next person? it

52:00

must be interesting because if you're paying attention, it would

52:03

also let you probably create a category that

52:05

says maybe types of

52:07

questions to catch myself before

52:09

and not ask if I have this tendency

52:11

towards them. Yeah, no, absolutely.

52:13

I feel I have tendencies towards saying

52:16

a lot of things at times where

52:18

when I really think deeply about my

52:20

intention, I don't want to be saying

52:22

things. Like for example, when

52:24

I'm spending time with my children, it took

52:27

me a long time to get to this

52:29

place. But when I'm spending time with my

52:31

children, and let's say they're speaking, and I

52:33

have something jumps in my mind, like that

52:35

I just feel like I have to say,

52:39

maybe just to connect with what they're saying,

52:41

or maybe an example of my life that

52:43

connects to something, you know, anything, I

52:45

now am at the point where

52:48

I can pause and

52:50

think, is this going to

52:52

shift the energy from them to me, my

52:55

kids are both teenagers, so 15

52:57

and 18. And I feel like,

52:59

just from my experiences, when my

53:02

children are speaking to me, it's like a

53:04

blessing, you know, that they're actually talking. And

53:06

so I find myself sort

53:08

of almost like biting my tongue,

53:11

many situations where I realized that

53:13

if I say something, that there's

53:15

a good chance they're going to

53:17

stop speaking, they're going to stop

53:20

creating, you know, through their voice and

53:22

finding their voice, and that my role

53:24

is really just to be supportive and

53:26

find ways for them to continue to

53:28

talk and for me to just listen

53:31

rather than to interject and say something

53:33

because I noticed that shift that occurs.

53:35

So what you're saying, I notice a

53:37

lot like when I'm interacting with my

53:39

family, my friends is that I'm a

53:42

lot more sort of pausing in my

53:44

mind, even though I feel that urge

53:46

to say something, I really feel it.

53:48

And sometimes even like questions, like in the

53:51

middle of like when someone's talking, I'm really

53:53

good at interjecting and saying things. I think

53:55

you know, you get to be really good

53:57

at that in the academic setting. I'm kind

53:59

of a at a place where I just

54:01

can hold it. And I also carry around like

54:03

notepads and things. So often I'll also, you know,

54:05

write something down. So I feel like I can

54:08

bring it up later. If I don't have a

54:10

notepad, I feel, oh, what if it, this is

54:12

so important, what's on my mind. If I don't

54:14

say it now, it's gonna, you know, we're not

54:16

gonna make it to the next thing. And I

54:18

find myself constantly every day, sort

54:20

of holding back and using

54:22

that as a strategy. And I find

54:24

when I do that, I now tell

54:26

myself, and this is more recent,

54:28

I say, that's a win. That's a

54:30

win. And it actually

54:32

feels really good when I

54:34

say that. And I'll say one more thing

54:37

that I do. There's this app called Mindjogger,

54:39

a really simple kind of primitive app where

54:42

you put in a sentence, like you write

54:44

in a sentence, and then you say, okay,

54:46

between 8 a.m. and 8 p.m., how

54:49

many times it's gonna randomly ping you. So like

54:51

three times, 10 times, whatever it is. So

54:53

sometimes what I do is I put in, you can do

54:55

it. I just put

54:57

that there. And so randomly throughout the day, I get

54:59

the ping, and I look, and I'm like, oh, what's

55:01

pinging me? And it says, you can do it. And

55:04

I can't tell you how good

55:06

that feels in the moment. Even though I've

55:09

written it, I've set it up. And

55:11

I feel there's so many things we can do in our

55:13

life to infuse that

55:15

kind of positive energy and

55:17

to help us to get over the hesitation

55:19

and the fear. And

55:22

I have other lines that I've done.

55:24

Like one is, who are you judging in this

55:26

moment? So I put that. And

55:29

then another one that I

55:31

learned actually on another podcast that I was listening

55:33

to, it is, I forget who it is, so

55:35

I'm not gonna credit this the right way, but

55:37

it says, are you above or below the line?

55:40

Meaning like, are you in a good, like

55:42

a positive sort of mental state or in

55:45

a negative mental state? And because I felt

55:47

at some points in my life, I needed

55:50

to, I felt like the negative,

55:52

when I kind of in a negative state, it

55:54

feels like it's all the time. And when I

55:56

use this app to ping me randomly, I realize

55:58

it's very infrequent. So it's like, like, wow, things are

56:00

really good. Why am I focused on the negative? So it

56:02

was a way to sort of get into the little

56:05

tool to help

56:07

me gain awareness of sort

56:10

of where I'm at, throughout the days in

56:12

general and what I need to work on

56:14

and things. Yeah, I love that. As you're

56:16

describing that, I'm like, oh, I have to

56:18

go check out that app. But also, you

56:20

had two questions popped into my head. One

56:23

was what's good about this moment? And

56:25

the other was just simply like, what do you notice? Just

56:28

a prompt to actually bring you into the

56:30

present moment to get you back into your

56:32

senses and instead spinning in your head, maybe

56:35

thinking about the future or the past, like

56:37

what do you notice right now, like about

56:39

yourself, about the world around you, the person

56:41

you're talking to. I love sort

56:44

of like being able to leverage simple tech

56:46

like that in a way that

56:48

just randomly keeps bringing you back to

56:50

states that you know you want to

56:53

be in, but we don't necessarily default

56:55

to them automatically. Good

57:00

Life Project is sponsored by NetSuite. So

57:02

I remember when our businesses were just

57:05

starting to really scale. It was amazing

57:07

and also added complexity and stress. And

57:09

the things that I used to do

57:11

in hours were taking days, too many

57:13

spreadsheets, too many systems, no single source

57:16

of truth. That sounds familiar. You should

57:18

know these numbers, 37,000, 25 and one.

57:24

37,000 businesses have upgraded to NetSuite by

57:26

Oracle, 25, NetSuite turns 25 this year.

57:30

That's 25 years of helping businesses

57:32

do more with less, close their

57:34

books in days, not weeks and

57:36

drive down costs. And one, because

57:38

your business is one of a

57:40

kind. So you get a customized

57:42

solution for all of your key

57:44

performance indicators and one efficient system

57:46

with one source of truth, manage

57:48

risk, get reliable forecasts and improve

57:50

margins. Everything you need to grow

57:53

all in one place. And right

57:55

now, download NetSuite's popular KPI checklist

57:57

designed to give you consistently excellent

57:59

performance. Absolutely. free at

58:01

netsuite.com/Good Life. That's netsuite.com/Good

58:03

Life to get your

58:06

own KPI checklist. netsuite.com/Good

58:08

Life. Mom

58:15

deserves better than a drugstore card. This

58:17

Mother's Day surprised her with a

58:20

truly special personalized card from Moonpig.

58:23

Add your favorite photos, a heartfelt message, and we'll

58:25

even mail it for you the same day, all

58:27

for just $5. From

58:29

mom to grandma, we have something to celebrate

58:32

every mom in your life. Every

58:34

mom deserves a Moonpig card. Get

58:37

50% off your first card

58:39

at moonpig.com. When

58:44

it comes to your finances, you think you've

58:46

done it all. You've saved, you've researched, you've

58:49

invested all that you can. Now it's time

58:51

to take those investments to the next level

58:53

by using the brand behind every great investor,

58:55

Yahoo Finance. As America's number one finance destination,

58:57

Yahoo Finance has everything you need, whether you're

59:00

a seasoned trader or just dipping your toes

59:02

into the market. Join the millions

59:04

of investors who trust Yahoo Finance to guide them

59:06

on their financial journey. For

59:08

comprehensive financial news and

59:10

analysis, visit Yahoo finance.com,

59:13

the number one financial destination, Yahoo

59:15

finance.com. The

59:44

best code distributors, Inc. The

1:00:00

know failure li business failures. yikes, sickness

1:00:02

for whatever it may be. And the

1:00:04

Sunday at we have this serve them.

1:00:07

Built. In but if it unless you

1:00:09

live in the tech world on world

1:00:11

where cilliers fairly normalize, he knows it's

1:00:13

apart, the process or in the scientific

1:00:15

roberts like you're gonna run a thousand

1:00:18

experiments and you know that most of

1:00:20

them are gonna work out what you

1:00:22

learn. Something outside of those domains insert

1:00:24

most people's daily life and work life

1:00:26

and we experience failure of this really

1:00:28

emotionally and we do anything to avoid

1:00:30

A you have this Saturday examples of

1:00:32

writing some the like a hundred grandson,

1:00:34

nothing but two and a half years,

1:00:36

most of them being rejected. To

1:00:38

be to didn't walk away from science.

1:00:40

To me, curiosity there is. I think

1:00:42

we can all acknowledge that actually. Putting

1:00:45

in the rats, doing the experiments

1:00:47

that to certain extent everything is

1:00:49

a numbers game night that you

1:00:51

have to keep moving to an

1:00:53

interesting and learning that's part of

1:00:55

the process but whether the strategies

1:00:57

that you have discovered that allow

1:00:59

you to stay in it. To.

1:01:02

Move through like sell your after Celiac

1:01:04

to sell your weather some Michael failure

1:01:06

or macro failure long enough. Easier to

1:01:08

replace really? who? Were. Starting to

1:01:10

figure something out. Oh yeah,

1:01:13

failures is definitely something that

1:01:15

I have gotten up close

1:01:17

and personal. West's on many

1:01:19

occasions and in some spectacular

1:01:21

ways. and I think that

1:01:23

Sam in others it's a

1:01:25

number of. A number

1:01:27

of the situation that my life where

1:01:29

that I mean the grant thing as

1:01:31

a good one because not a here

1:01:34

i am young faculty member just got

1:01:36

out of my post stock at M

1:01:38

I T and on I want to.

1:01:41

Do. New Things. I don't want to

1:01:43

continue what I've been doing. I'm really

1:01:45

excited. I have so many ideas unlike

1:01:47

so fired up and I asked around

1:01:49

some advice and people say okay just

1:01:51

do something that you've already done but

1:01:53

just extended a little bed and now

1:01:55

I just didn't feel right to me,

1:01:57

I just didn't I wasn't excited about

1:01:59

that's and so I started writing grants

1:02:01

about just coming up with a wild

1:02:03

ideas and you're right, Like I got

1:02:05

rejection after rejection after objects. In fact

1:02:07

I would be almost coming back home

1:02:09

every other day or so, telling my

1:02:11

wife that I have another rejection and

1:02:14

see at one point said are you

1:02:16

sure this is the right career for

1:02:18

no not a distinctly remember exactly where

1:02:20

I was, when assets, and the moment

1:02:22

and in all the things about it,

1:02:24

but what made it feel right during

1:02:26

that time. Wise. As

1:02:28

I was writing these grants and getting these

1:02:31

rejections and the really felt like punches in

1:02:33

the face every single time. Like I put

1:02:35

my heart into each one of these grants

1:02:37

and and I really in. I would even

1:02:40

sleep in my lab some nights just to

1:02:42

get the grants. In on Time

1:02:44

and. The. Key for me was

1:02:46

that a bunch of these grants I

1:02:48

would get feedback. Now when I got

1:02:50

the feedback I would get really angry

1:02:52

and I would be a rational about it.

1:02:54

You know how could they see? This

1:02:56

is not true. It was there on

1:02:58

page three. Like you know they didn't

1:03:00

read my gran like you know I

1:03:02

would just come up with all these

1:03:04

things. But what I noticed was is

1:03:06

that after a couple days you know

1:03:08

if I got a good night's sleep or

1:03:11

two that those emotions would go away.

1:03:13

They were just transitory and I started.

1:03:15

To think like wait a moment now I

1:03:17

can actually go back and look through this

1:03:19

review and maybe there's certain things I can

1:03:21

pull out that would be helpful and I

1:03:23

started to look at that see and I

1:03:25

started to get more and more and more

1:03:28

feedback because had lots of rejection and. I

1:03:30

started to get excited about it like I don't I just

1:03:32

feel. Like. There's this excitement that has been

1:03:35

able to tap into in the process

1:03:37

of failure because in some ways I'm

1:03:39

actually being told how to do better

1:03:41

the next time. how can I increase

1:03:43

my probability that the next grant might

1:03:45

be funded And so as I was

1:03:47

going I started to I was like

1:03:50

oh that's so interesting because I I

1:03:52

made it into like this learning process

1:03:54

like I feel learning is really exciting.

1:03:56

It really does like our brain, these

1:03:58

are wired to get excited about learning.

1:04:00

I think we can tap into that

1:04:03

like we buy just noticing the nuances,

1:04:05

noticing how we feel when we learn

1:04:07

something even if it was a mistake

1:04:09

we made our it's you know, just

1:04:11

something that someone is schooling us in

1:04:13

some way or another. By the it's

1:04:16

like okay now I can add it

1:04:18

to my next grant and likely reviewers

1:04:20

are not an attack that point because

1:04:22

now this part is now more bulletproof

1:04:24

and I just did that over and

1:04:26

over and I started to just keep

1:04:29

my antenna. As activated as possible

1:04:31

you know trying to be receptive and eventually

1:04:33

at the two and a half year mark

1:04:35

where you know most of the grants were

1:04:37

by I think the I was were over

1:04:39

one hundred grand maybe? I had a few

1:04:41

that were funded just for smallness money and

1:04:43

this was high pressure to be sized my

1:04:45

to zip my satchel. These additions to the

1:04:47

hospital. Which. Means it's a one hundred

1:04:50

percent soft money positions meaning that I have

1:04:52

to pay myself through my greens and I

1:04:54

was given a startup package that only last

1:04:57

for three years. So if I was unable

1:04:59

to bring in enough funding to support my

1:05:01

salary after three years does hundred hours my

1:05:03

eyes out and so there was have pressure

1:05:06

to arm but is there I was just

1:05:08

able to see the silver lining up just

1:05:10

learning and so I got better and better

1:05:12

and better at reading grandson. At the two

1:05:15

and a half year marked I had to

1:05:17

add three grand simultaneously funded. On

1:05:19

to the tune of like a few

1:05:21

million dollars. My lab tripled in size

1:05:24

and we were asked to the races.

1:05:26

And there's a so many situations in

1:05:28

my life where things like that have

1:05:30

happened now. just do a couple quit

1:05:32

examples like this one is I go

1:05:35

to give us a tad med talk

1:05:37

to get what year was nearly twenty

1:05:39

two, thirteen or fourteen or something like

1:05:41

that and here I am and that

1:05:43

tenderly center in D C. I'm on

1:05:46

stage and there's five high definition cameras

1:05:48

on. Me is being livestream throughout the

1:05:50

world, and I've practiced that they had

1:05:53

memorized anything since Elementary school. I put

1:05:55

months and months and months into this

1:05:57

of memorizing it. Practice the I Rent.

1:06:00

There because the auditorium at Mit the

1:06:02

biggest lecture hall. I practiced it there.

1:06:04

I practiced in front of the head

1:06:06

of communications at my institution. I passed

1:06:08

them from my family and my lab

1:06:10

and is all over the place for

1:06:12

finding, refining, finding in and eventually it

1:06:14

was and just made it Robotics You

1:06:16

Now I can just I can just

1:06:18

say that think about different things and

1:06:20

actually the night before I went up

1:06:22

they said okay here's the kicker to

1:06:24

advance. By the way it doesn't go

1:06:26

backwards He said if you wanna go

1:06:28

backwards you have to. Yell out in the

1:06:31

middle ear talk to oh go back to

1:06:33

slice and I was like oh this is

1:06:35

my level of anxiety just like went on

1:06:37

his And then he said in previous years

1:06:39

people when they stop you know they'll stop

1:06:41

on stage, they run off or they start

1:06:43

crying and he said don't do that. You

1:06:45

know like if you stop in the middle

1:06:47

of your talk. Just. Stand

1:06:49

there and smile and hopefully it'll come

1:06:51

back to you. So I'm

1:06:54

going through my talk and all of

1:06:56

a sudden I realize I forgot a

1:06:58

line. And I take it

1:07:00

over at my mind is stuffed, focus hyper

1:07:03

focus on i forgot a line and then

1:07:05

all of a sudden I stopped in the

1:07:07

middle of my talk kennedy Center of D

1:07:09

C. all this people watching all over and

1:07:12

I'm like oh my god oh my god

1:07:14

where I do and I might as a

1:07:16

camera off the stage at him cry to

1:07:18

smile to smile and so I have the

1:07:21

clicker and I'm anti know like use my

1:07:23

arm as like a lightning rod or my

1:07:25

i'm trying to just get energy somehow and

1:07:27

I don't I'm like really don't like. Oh

1:07:30

my God Oh my god Oh my gods

1:07:32

And then eventually I'm like okay just advanced

1:07:34

the slides So I dance the slide into

1:07:36

blank slide and I'm like oh my god

1:07:38

why they're blank slides and then I advance

1:07:40

to the next slide and then I realized

1:07:42

the blanks slide was a queue for me

1:07:44

to say something But then I knew what

1:07:46

to say and so I said it and

1:07:48

I was like to go go go And

1:07:50

then I continue to. Continued on and as

1:07:52

I'm walking off the stage the States coordinator

1:07:54

said we can easily added that part out

1:07:57

and so if you watch it online you

1:07:59

won't see. It but. Ousted this this

1:08:01

I stopped for fifteen seconds which

1:08:03

feels like a lifetime and the

1:08:05

moment and the reason I'm bringing

1:08:07

this up is because. Be

1:08:10

I was able to recover and

1:08:12

that brought me a newfound confidence

1:08:14

with my presentations with my billie

1:08:16

to eat, even interact with other

1:08:18

people because it just made me

1:08:20

realize that while I might stop

1:08:22

made me or I might lose

1:08:24

my train of thought, I might,

1:08:26

you know, be distracted by I

1:08:29

can find a way to bring

1:08:31

it back and then get back

1:08:33

on track. And so it's almost

1:08:35

like every time I've had these

1:08:37

spectacular failures or setbacks, there's like

1:08:39

this. Energy that I've been able

1:08:41

to tap into, that then his

1:08:43

like elevated everything else I've done

1:08:46

from that moment and I feel

1:08:48

and less we encounter. Failures

1:08:50

and setbacks. We can't access

1:08:52

that energy. And I really

1:08:55

feel it's energy because it's almost like

1:08:57

a Elevates like them all my presentations

1:08:59

going forward and just move more comfortable

1:09:01

and. And. I think that. When

1:09:04

school we learn failures like on

1:09:06

one side and successes over here.

1:09:08

but in my experience failure proceeds

1:09:10

success. It's like a step towards

1:09:13

progress and it's where we really

1:09:15

gain our greatest insights and opportunities

1:09:17

for growth. And it's to such

1:09:19

a heart, energy towards opportunity for

1:09:21

us to learn and evolve in

1:09:24

everything. What would you say

1:09:26

would be. As frame

1:09:28

a state of mind or strategy

1:09:30

to bring to those moments that

1:09:33

somebody might adopt. To

1:09:35

Help them Now embrace it or even

1:09:37

get through it. Will.

1:09:39

One thing that I've done

1:09:41

is I've created a list

1:09:44

of my most spectacular failures

1:09:46

in Mice. I've not just

1:09:48

created the list, but actually

1:09:50

reflected on each item on

1:09:52

that list and what's happened

1:09:54

as a result of it.

1:09:57

And every single. Example.

1:09:59

On the way there's something positive

1:10:01

that has come out of it.

1:10:03

There's sort of like a new

1:10:05

opportunity that's been unlocked. There's a

1:10:07

new sense of confidence that's been

1:10:09

gained. There's a new sense of

1:10:11

increase number of possibilities in you

1:10:13

know, opportunities. I mean it's just

1:10:16

it's lead to answer To me

1:10:18

that's something that everybody can do

1:10:20

is to just create a list

1:10:22

of. Previous. Failure,

1:10:24

setbacks, challenges that you've encountered and then

1:10:26

to go through that list and think

1:10:28

about what was the positive that came

1:10:31

out of it had it it positively

1:10:33

impact or evolution or your development of

1:10:35

a skill or your ability to connect

1:10:37

or interact with others or you do

1:10:39

what do you wanna do And to

1:10:42

me it's a sometimes we just have

1:10:44

to look back to we often hear

1:10:46

like trust in the process, right? trust

1:10:48

in the process and it's for me.

1:10:50

I've heard so many times I'm like.

1:10:53

That's how do I trust in the

1:10:55

process? I realize to trust in the

1:10:57

process we have to look backwards to

1:10:59

see how so many of the things

1:11:02

we've done of actually worked out. even

1:11:04

know the we really have to remember

1:11:06

those moments of uncertainty. It's almost like

1:11:08

our brains forget about that and then

1:11:11

just things like oh, it's the failure

1:11:13

of the challenge of today, but we

1:11:15

forget how many times in our life

1:11:17

we've been in situations where where it's

1:11:20

complete uncertainty about what to do next.

1:11:22

What step. To take we feel like

1:11:24

every the world is crashed down and

1:11:27

this is the end of our

1:11:29

life. or this is the end of

1:11:31

this project or the end of that

1:11:33

isn't. So many times when I've been

1:11:36

in that situation where it literally seems

1:11:38

like polarize towards this is never going

1:11:40

to work. This is a dead

1:11:42

and yet every single time some sort

1:11:45

of new idea or new insight or

1:11:47

there's some sent something that was learn

1:11:49

sort of takes me in a

1:11:51

slightly different direction towards. Something really great

1:11:54

and so I feel like we we

1:11:56

if we despise and take time to

1:11:58

get in touch with that weekend. In

1:12:00

the competence to take beaver wrists

1:12:02

and our allies and to be

1:12:05

open to embracing failure as an

1:12:07

opportunity for gain insights and am

1:12:09

a great opportunity for personal growth.

1:12:12

Yeah, I love that. I've heard the concept a

1:12:14

sell your resume in the past but but this

1:12:17

as to that concept of they don't is make

1:12:19

a list of these things Butts identify. What?

1:12:21

Door has been open because is this like

1:12:23

what advance what next great saying has unfolded

1:12:26

because of this and I would imagine in

1:12:28

for somebody who's sir like in the midst

1:12:30

of some big rejection or perceived sell your

1:12:32

like Leary. As we have this conversation it

1:12:34

may be a little bit hard to actually

1:12:36

do these. it's the postmortem when you're like

1:12:39

still in the morning he though or when

1:12:41

you're in the moments. But even as he

1:12:43

should plant the seed in the moment. And

1:12:45

to sweet is things that as I used

1:12:47

to say to. Plant

1:12:49

the question you like what

1:12:52

possibilities might now. Become.

1:12:54

Manifest because of what's just happened

1:12:56

that I didn't know about or

1:12:59

that weren't available or I hadn't

1:13:01

thought about. Before. Hand.

1:13:04

Maybe. Not even trying to answer in the

1:13:06

mother could you may just be kind of dealing

1:13:08

with yellow of this is just really evil but

1:13:10

just like to plant the seed and let your

1:13:12

mind. The Lakers set that in your mind for

1:13:15

disorderly noodle and subconsciously so you have something there.

1:13:17

Do you think that that would be? Worth.

1:13:19

Exploring. Absolutely. I think

1:13:22

I'd I just I find myself thinking

1:13:24

sold any linearly. At times like where

1:13:26

it's like I feel like there's just

1:13:28

the one possibility but them. When I

1:13:31

sort of do this reflects and backwards,

1:13:33

I realize that there were many possibilities

1:13:35

that existence. And so I feel you

1:13:37

know, the kind of. Related

1:13:40

What you're saying is

1:13:42

sort of this sense

1:13:44

of that. Maybe in

1:13:46

this moment our attention

1:13:48

is focused on a

1:13:50

single possibility, which is

1:13:52

the emotions that we're

1:13:54

experiencing from this catastrophe

1:13:56

that were within by

1:13:58

the actual experience. In itself

1:14:00

and the like. If we were to

1:14:02

sort of look at the three dimensionally

1:14:04

in on the entire experience and all

1:14:06

the various facets and aspects of it,

1:14:09

we start to realize that are attention

1:14:11

is focused on mice a pin point

1:14:13

of the whole experience and what that

1:14:15

experience can, how it can help us

1:14:17

and how we can transform us and

1:14:19

changes in so I think it's like

1:14:21

yeah, it's acting overtime. We can develop

1:14:23

the skill if we commit to it

1:14:26

so that we can sort of widen

1:14:28

the lens that we we see. Things

1:14:30

and we can kind of be open to

1:14:32

like. It's like when we're planning a project

1:14:34

is so weird, as is this tendency to

1:14:36

be like okay, will do this and that's

1:14:38

what will happen in and that will be

1:14:41

next in that will be next and you

1:14:43

know, And for presenting funding like writing grants

1:14:45

we tend to to presented that way but

1:14:47

he never goes that way. And yeah, it's

1:14:49

it's you know, So we kind of. Sometimes

1:14:51

I'm like oh, it's so silly to write

1:14:53

this linear path but at the same time

1:14:56

it's not because even just getting that down

1:14:58

on paper and thinking about it can. Be

1:15:00

helpful because you bring your best

1:15:02

thinking to the moment. I think

1:15:05

when you're planning but what? I've

1:15:07

realizes that. We learn more

1:15:09

along the way that we don't know

1:15:11

in the beginning. when we're starting out

1:15:13

and what we learn ends up. Being

1:15:16

more essential to anything like if we're

1:15:18

developing like to say for example we

1:15:20

we've had this project to my lab

1:15:22

where. We wanted to. We

1:15:25

were working with this cardiac surgeon at

1:15:27

Boston Children's Hospital to find a way

1:15:29

to seal. Calls. Inside the

1:15:31

beating heart. So one in two hundred

1:15:33

or three hundred children that are born

1:15:35

have a congenital heart defects and a

1:15:37

percentage require surgery and Doctor Pedro don't

1:15:39

need all. The Chief of Cardiac Surgery

1:15:42

Boston Children's Hospital reached out to us

1:15:44

because we've been developing some tissue which

1:15:46

he says and so we brainstormed him

1:15:48

were like oh my god this is

1:15:50

really hard because how we going to

1:15:52

get a tissue glue the idea was

1:15:54

kind of make a pact that had

1:15:56

a glue on it that with stick

1:15:58

to the tissue around. The whole and

1:16:00

then would close it and then what would

1:16:02

happen is cells would grow up with had

1:16:04

a migraine on top form new tissue and

1:16:07

then the material would degrade and the patients

1:16:09

left with their own tissue ceiling the whole

1:16:11

which could naturally grow with the with the

1:16:13

heart and to these were young very young

1:16:15

children babies and the hearts expanding your sixteen

1:16:17

beats per minute on average you know so

1:16:19

expands and contracts in cycles have the rest

1:16:21

the blood every surface is covered with blood

1:16:23

it's you know We had some ideas were

1:16:25

like our this year we have some ideas

1:16:28

as to to work really well. But

1:16:30

it's that ended. the dead and his dad ended and

1:16:32

were just like that moment where I was like oh

1:16:34

my can I say wow, like is this the and

1:16:36

like the We As and it literally. And it

1:16:39

gets to that moment in every.

1:16:41

Project where we feel like okay but

1:16:43

because we've been there so many times

1:16:45

were I think the speaks to what

1:16:47

you're saying where said open to possibilities

1:16:49

and can't see it in the very

1:16:51

moment. but if you just wait a

1:16:53

couple days or a week or in

1:16:55

any kind of didn't press pause and

1:16:57

to sort of let things come in

1:16:59

and look from different angles and so

1:17:01

what we noticed was there was a

1:17:03

fault in our thinking. Because

1:17:05

what we recognize his. that's we

1:17:08

would approach the problem with one

1:17:10

sort of way of thinking and

1:17:12

wouldn't work. and then we'd step

1:17:14

back. And we'd approach with

1:17:16

the same thinking and expect different

1:17:18

outcomes. So what we did was

1:17:20

we said okay well how can

1:17:23

we intercept are thinking and what

1:17:25

we did is we turn to

1:17:27

nature for inspiration. So this idea

1:17:29

that evolution is the best problem

1:17:31

solver. Millions and millions of years

1:17:33

of research and development happening all

1:17:35

around us. Anything that's alive today.

1:17:37

Every plan Every animal is here

1:17:39

because it solves insurmountable number of

1:17:41

challenges right? Like Evolution is a

1:17:43

problem solving process and were surrounded.

1:17:45

By ideas that we could potentially

1:17:48

solutions that we could bring into

1:17:50

the lab you know as as

1:17:52

as ideas And so we said

1:17:54

ok creatures exist. Within wet,

1:17:56

dynamic environments. Right? Because inside

1:17:59

the house. Dynamic very well

1:18:01

and we found some creatures and

1:18:03

we started to study them and

1:18:05

we started to understand how certain

1:18:07

sandcastle worms stick to rocks and

1:18:09

the waves hit them and they

1:18:11

remain plot and no other creatures

1:18:13

have similar mechanisms and we learned

1:18:15

some things from that. and then

1:18:17

we brought it into the project

1:18:19

and we were able to then

1:18:21

advances and eventually we developed a

1:18:23

surgical glue that could seal holes

1:18:25

inside a beating hearts. Were able

1:18:27

to get regulatory approval in Europe

1:18:29

for that glue for vascular reconstruction

1:18:31

and now it's into clinical trials.

1:18:33

one for nerve reconstruction and one

1:18:35

for hernia repair i think the

1:18:38

main sort of. Seen. Here

1:18:40

is just how in the moment

1:18:42

there's ways that we can disrupt

1:18:44

our own thinking. How in the

1:18:47

moment there's ways that we can

1:18:49

disrupt us living in a single

1:18:51

possibility. And there's tools that we

1:18:54

can use to bring in new

1:18:56

energy and new ideas and new

1:18:58

frames of reference. and it changes

1:19:00

everything into the open things that

1:19:03

that and so I see failure

1:19:05

and setbacks and challenges now as

1:19:07

an opportunity to be creative. And

1:19:10

that's really exciting when you start to

1:19:12

get a sense for what the problem

1:19:14

might be. Sometimes we don't even know

1:19:16

and what will do to keep to

1:19:18

sort of rejuvenate the excitement is will

1:19:20

bring somebody into the project who has

1:19:22

someone knew who has a different expertise

1:19:25

and we have and then they look

1:19:27

at it through a different lens and

1:19:29

then all of a sudden we start

1:19:31

brainstorm. We we come up with a

1:19:33

new idea of a sudden excitements back

1:19:35

and we're off to the races with

1:19:37

another shot on goal. There's

1:19:40

such a powerful way to read frame

1:19:42

sell. You are just center and he

1:19:44

can stumble. And. Really is.

1:19:46

It's almost like zoom in the ones out

1:19:48

and say yelling, this hurts right now. But

1:19:51

let me let it breathe for a minute

1:19:53

and must come back to it but differently.

1:19:55

Like what possibilities exist now that we said

1:19:58

weeks or close the door on that. So

1:20:01

many interesting ideas and techniques and strategies

1:20:03

clearly reference Nature a whole bunch of

1:20:05

times in our conversation, so that plays

1:20:07

a role. I'm a huge fan of

1:20:09

Nature isn't nearly a friend to me,

1:20:11

it is a sell. It is a

1:20:13

problem solving media my with in Boulder,

1:20:15

Colorado, so I'm in Nature on a

1:20:18

very regular basis. He talked about things

1:20:20

like the power and the importance of

1:20:22

pause and how it sets us and

1:20:24

so many other things. So definitely if

1:20:26

you're listening in on you want to

1:20:28

dive into so many these different topics

1:20:30

that. Are embrace in the bus can feel

1:20:32

this is a good place for us to

1:20:34

come full circle this conversation so in this

1:20:36

container bit less project if I offer up

1:20:38

the phrase to live a good life but

1:20:40

comes up. To.

1:20:43

Live a good life. To

1:20:45

me is really all about.

1:20:48

Tapping. Into. My.

1:20:50

Curiosity as just found it

1:20:53

to be such a gateway

1:20:55

to connect with other people,

1:20:58

to on connect with nature

1:21:00

and to really do my

1:21:03

best work. Staff find the

1:21:05

best questions to, learns, And.

1:21:08

It's it's. kind of goes beyond learning.

1:21:10

I feel like it's almost like I

1:21:12

feel when we're. Tapping into

1:21:14

our curiosity or not just

1:21:16

learning that were maximally exciting

1:21:19

our brains by what we're

1:21:21

learning. And I think. That

1:21:24

you know, for example, In

1:21:26

relationships with my wife will have

1:21:29

conversations and she is very different

1:21:31

perspectives on things than than I

1:21:33

do the she owns a polite

1:21:36

studio and she's very much into

1:21:38

mind body connection which I think

1:21:40

is such an important element arm

1:21:42

that I have only brush the

1:21:45

surface of but when she's speaking

1:21:47

I sound if I really sort

1:21:49

of pinch my brain and listen

1:21:52

to what's he saying and as

1:21:54

she talks about her clients and.

1:21:56

Talks about how she's helping people, tips

1:21:58

and not really. We have mind

1:22:01

and body. I find my serious

1:22:03

city. He just picks up on

1:22:05

it and I half so many

1:22:07

questions and I feel when I

1:22:09

ask the questions and then I

1:22:11

to listen to the answers. It

1:22:13

deepens my relationship with her. So

1:22:15

to me that's really I don't

1:22:17

know. The essence of have a

1:22:19

good life is finding ways Iraq

1:22:21

comes back to the questions, Christ's

1:22:23

finding ways to cultivate our curiosities

1:22:25

and he on the other thing

1:22:27

too is is that the I've

1:22:29

had this transformational. Experience over the last

1:22:31

several months. he then you have always

1:22:33

had as a close relationship with nature

1:22:35

but I feel it's has taken it

1:22:37

to a new level and what I've

1:22:40

done is when I walk we have

1:22:42

two dogs and a walk them around

1:22:44

and the neighborhood and Tom I've been

1:22:46

practicing cycling through my senses as I

1:22:48

walk through the neighborhood and so I'll

1:22:50

just say like site and I'll just

1:22:52

look at the park on the trees

1:22:54

and you know the leaves and of

1:22:57

the birds and then I'll say hearing

1:22:59

and I'll listen to. The birds chirping

1:23:01

or at the wind rustling the leaves

1:23:03

sort of going through my senses and

1:23:05

as i and then touch seen all

1:23:07

slow down or kind of the on

1:23:09

my feet hit the ground and wind

1:23:11

hit my face and I feel as

1:23:14

I do that I'm now paying more

1:23:16

attention to each sense. But not only

1:23:18

that I'm tapping into curiosity, I'm thinking

1:23:20

about the patterns a little bit more

1:23:22

in the barks of the trees and

1:23:24

I'm now sort of questions are coming

1:23:26

up and I'm like this are you

1:23:28

know like I'm accessing. Ah, through curiosity

1:23:31

and to me now every walks

1:23:33

that I go on, it's not

1:23:35

just to take the dogs out

1:23:37

and for them to get the

1:23:39

exercise or for me to get

1:23:41

the exercise. I actually feel like

1:23:43

I'm connecting with nature. I just

1:23:45

think that yeah, the root of

1:23:47

a good life is is really

1:23:49

are curiosities and I think it's

1:23:51

such a powerful source of energy

1:23:53

that we can all tap into

1:23:56

is our evolutionary inheritance. We all

1:23:58

have access to add at any

1:24:00

moment and we can develop it

1:24:02

over time through asking questions and

1:24:04

to practices. And I feel it's

1:24:06

also led to gratitude as well.

1:24:08

In my life you know as

1:24:10

give one example and that to

1:24:12

someone on recently told me that

1:24:14

the microbes that to see these

1:24:16

millimeter, some millimeter creatures in the

1:24:18

ocean. The Title Plankton produce over

1:24:20

half of the oxygen that we

1:24:22

breeze rights not from the trees

1:24:24

from the ocean And when I

1:24:26

heard Dad and hims my curiosity

1:24:29

is just started. Running wild and

1:24:31

sort of thinking about the interconnectivity of

1:24:33

everything and how there's this wondrous web

1:24:35

of life which we all depend on

1:24:38

be at work contributing to and I

1:24:40

think for me it's like just elevated.

1:24:43

Gratitude. And I've heard in

1:24:45

a gratitude is important. I for

1:24:47

a long time trying to figure out

1:24:49

what what's the process to practice

1:24:51

gratitude. I've actually come up with some

1:24:53

practices to do that. One of them

1:24:56

is cycling through the senses and and

1:24:58

and sort of we sensitizing my

1:25:00

allies in this. through through a paying

1:25:03

attention to what's around me and

1:25:05

then also being open to understanding and

1:25:07

seeing the interconnectivity that we all

1:25:09

exist within this this web and say

1:25:11

oh, it's kind of nice. Once

1:25:13

you start thinking about that because

1:25:15

we have this support system that

1:25:17

all around us that everywhere and

1:25:19

I think it's in a people

1:25:21

talk about serve elevating the level

1:25:24

of consciousness and to me this

1:25:26

is you know. Curiosity.

1:25:28

Embracing your curiosity

1:25:30

is a route

1:25:32

to elevating consciousness.

1:25:36

Thank you. He

1:25:39

before you leave if he love this

1:25:42

episode says that. you'll also lead the

1:25:44

conversation we had with Ozone Burrow about

1:25:46

drinking and lies and making big things

1:25:48

happen. You find a link to those

1:25:50

as episode in This isn't This episode

1:25:52

of the My Project was produced by

1:25:55

executive producers Lindsay Fast and me Jonathan

1:25:57

Feals Editing helped by Alexandre Ramirez. Christopher

1:25:59

Carter attracted our theme music and special

1:26:01

thanks to Sell a Dell for her

1:26:03

research on this episode. And of course

1:26:06

if you haven't already done so please

1:26:08

go ahead and the Follow Good Life

1:26:10

Project in your favorite. Listening up and

1:26:12

if you found this conversation interesting or

1:26:14

inspiring are valuable and chances are you

1:26:16

days since you're still listening here. Would

1:26:19

you do me a personal favor seven

1:26:21

Second Favorite and share. It may be

1:26:23

on social or by text or by

1:26:25

email just with one person. Just copy

1:26:27

the link from the app you're using.

1:26:30

And tell those you know there's you.

1:26:32

Love those you wanna help navigate this

1:26:34

thing called life a little better so

1:26:36

we can all do it better together

1:26:38

with more ease and more joy. Tell

1:26:40

them to less than even invite them

1:26:43

to talk about what you've both discover

1:26:45

because when podcast become conversations and conversations

1:26:47

become accent. That's how we all

1:26:49

come alive together. Until next

1:26:51

time on Jealous and Feals. Asked

1:26:53

for device.