0:04

swapnil: Hey everyone. mukul: This is Mukul swapnil: And this is Swapnil.

0:08

mukul: welcome to going slow podcast, where we discuss our product journeys.

0:13

swapnil: And also have casual discussions around life universe

0:16

and everything in between. mukul: Hello?

0:22

Hello. Welcome to episode 13 of going slow podcast.

0:25

Hey, how's it going? swapnil: Yeah, everything is pretty good.

0:32

Where do you I'll pass you over? You. mukul: Yeah, it was pretty decent.

0:37

It was mostly relaxing. There was definitely some high priority work we had to do,

0:44

but it was not stressful.

0:46

So the, it was pretty well balanced.

0:50

So we are now starting to focusing a lot on with other apps to have

0:57

a deeper integration, with apps.

1:01

So yeah, I mean, there were mostly discussions around those terms

1:04

and we'll be looking forward to have more in the future.

1:11

swapnil: Interesting. Can you go deeper into one of those integrations that it

1:15

mukul: Yeah. Yeah. So like I'll give you a simple example.

1:18

For example our app is appointment booking, like appointment

1:22

booking app in Shopify. when someone uses our app, they can take for their product.

1:28

So for example, if you're selling like yoga classes some

1:31

consultation, they can use an app to But make some times available.

1:36

Charged for it and have reminders, confirmation signed for them.

1:41

So, there are a few integrations we are looking for to do.

1:45

One is very simple. It's with the app, which does subscription.

1:49

So for example, there are many apps in Shopify, which does subscriptions.

1:53

So for example, if you undertake like coffee subscription, so every Monday

1:57

you get five coffee delivered to you and they will charge you like $50,

2:00

$60 per month, something like that. So our first integration, I would say.

2:06

Appointment subscription. So for example, if what if you have, you will have recurring

2:12

appointments by a 0.2 a recurring subscription buy that subscription app.

2:18

And there's two apps. We'll talk with each other we'll make sure that if customer is a subscriber, then

2:26

he will receive recurring appointments. So, Yeah.

2:31

that's like the basic test of integration we are working with.

2:35

Trying to our app's functionality and a way, trying to acquire users like I

2:44

would say trying to acquire, trying to increase the funnel for acquisition.

2:50

Like currently we get a lot of customers from Shopify app store, it

2:55

will be like a small increase in funnel where we are using the subscription.

3:03

And if you are looking forward to take appointment subscription,

3:05

then you can do that to that flow.

3:10

swapnil: Got it. I knew. How does the partnership work?

3:14

Like what do you get? What do they. mukul: It's same, like for example, the we are getting is like deeper

3:20

integration with the app, like, a relationship to start with.

3:24

Like for example, we are in discussion with other apps.

3:27

So there is like partnership. And there's also like co-marketing things like we, in our blog post

3:35

we'll have some written for them.

3:37

And in their blog blog posts, they. will have something written for us.

3:41

it's like a partnership kind of thing.

3:43

Also a chance to, I would say, grow your app, like increase the apps, but.

3:49

So that you could say that, Hey, we'd not only just give this, but we also

3:54

have some extensive functionalities. And also it helps in like the funnel of increasing the

4:01

funnel for user acquisition.

4:05

swapnil: Okay. And like, do like share revenue.

4:08

mukul: No, but we don't share revenue.

4:10

So. I think it's totally optional.

4:13

You don't have to share and stuff.

4:16

It's mostly I would say based on the presence.

4:20

So for example, our appointment app appoint two has like around 90 reviews.

4:26

So it shows that that app has been in business for a long

4:29

time and it's doing good. It's five stars.

4:33

It's why you started it. So it shows that it has a.

4:37

Whole ecosystem place, like support app and all those things.

4:42

So it brings, it builds that and then you can with other apps and then

4:50

it also increases that reputation in that way, like, Hey, like this

4:55

have partner with this other app. So like a win-win and also.

5:01

swapnil: Yeah, I think this is pretty cool to get out.

5:04

So you like building trust with every new integration that you do.

5:09

mukul: It's just yes. Yes. Building trust building.

5:13

I would say professional relationship with other partners.

5:16

So yeah, I would, I don't think it.

5:19

has like a instant return.

5:21

like a long, long game. swapnil: Yeah.

5:26

Yeah. And be loud long. Yeah. So I guess pretty good.

5:31

mukul: Yeah. I mean it's more like you had done everything to have those instant gains.

5:36

Now, like have like now done everything you can get those instant things you

5:45

want, like whatever features you can build to increase this, to have that kind of

5:50

subscription you have built at now, next is like, what makes now next is doing

5:55

those long-term things, will be often.

6:00

Which may or may not be off in long-term side, it's it's

6:03

my, it must be similar, right? Like your trial, 10, 20 different things, and actually only one or two

6:10

of those work and 18 of those fields.

6:13

something like that. swapnil: Yeah, very true.

6:18

The long-term thing is pretty spot and I can relate to it with our team is.

6:22

The last week. So like this week, the hide, the lowest meetings ever in any week so far.

6:32

And I think the majority of that can we attribute it to the fact that now the

6:37

team has like full context of everything?

6:39

So of course, initially it felt like we talked a lot.

6:44

To share the context around the problem that they're solving.

6:47

But with time now that turns us sort of paying off with every team

6:53

member is doing things on their own.

6:56

And yeah, I think this is again like a long-term game, the dancer

7:00

coming in and now we have time to get more team members in.

7:05

So pretty good leverage. mukul: Interesting.

7:08

So do you have a call with all of your team?

7:13

Like once a week or everyday or something like that?

7:19

swapnil: So mukul: you're swapnil: recently we used to have of God every day.

7:24

This week we hide.

7:28

Cause I think the last one we hired on vans.

7:31

mukul: Steve. swapnil: And we didn't need any call on Thursday and Friday.

7:35

So now I feel that we are getting into a less frequent cadence.

7:41

So we'll have one syncope on Monday, but I think from five per week, we

7:45

are moving to a lesser frequency now.

7:48

And the ideal thing for me would be just have one single a week.

7:53

So that is not styling for the next week.

7:57

mukul: Yeah. totally. swapnil: Yeah.

8:01

Yeah. So maybe let me say that they are remodeled, but I think it's very

8:06

different when you say the boat first and when you actually do a sync load,

8:10

if you're doing if everyone has to do their work in like a set time window,

8:16

then, maybe it's not a first off.

8:20

mukul: Yeah. Yeah, definitely best scene the more tag.

8:23

We actually don't follow that too, because we are just two people.

8:27

So whenever are to discuss something, we'll just call each

8:30

other and get, get it done. But like the best remote act has or feel is creating loom videos.

8:41

Like for example, you have to, you want to discuss something.

8:45

You want to share something. Just create a loom video and share it with them.

8:50

it? I have, and I actually loved that software because like, for example,

8:55

if there is any customer requests, customer support request comes in and

9:00

they say that, Hey, trying to do this, but I'm not able to configure it.

9:05

Then I can just create a loom video, a quick 30 minute, 32nd, one minute

9:10

long video where I can just explain, you should do this, you should do that.

9:14

Doing a screenshot. And it just instantly, it creates an impression that, oh,

9:21

it gets all like very easily. Like you don't have to write think, and write like a steps.

9:27

You'll just create a room video, share it. And that said, a really.

9:31

So, yeah, I mean, loom videos, I think it's a great way to have that.

9:37

I think remote kind of situation make making it to work.

9:42

swapnil: Yeah, I think that makes a lot of sense.

9:45

We have not, mukul: no, swapnil: Done a lot of loom video still long, but I'm definitely

9:50

taking this as a takeaway and we'll start doing that from next week.

9:54

The one thing they absolutely love about.

9:58

plan is that it puts a five minute limit and that sort of forces you to tell all

10:05

of the important things like, of course, you can ramble, you can go on and on.

10:10

You can talk for 15 minutes, but I don't think most of the

10:14

times we have anything the. mukul: the. cooler

10:17

swapnil: Of the thing, the goal is just like a few minutes long.

10:20

So I love that it has a very decent free time limit in this.

10:28

mukul: Yeah. I also like if someone is sending label more than than like five minute

10:33

video, then I think it should not be a video, then it should be a color.

10:40

I wouldn't, I wouldn't want to listen like five minute video of someone

10:44

swapnil: Yeah, you had to go and it doesn't work.

10:47

Right. That's why the completion rate of books is a low content.

10:52

Hey, like, what do you watch? Is it recorded content?

10:55

mukul: Yeah. I mean, exactly like that is like watching a YouTube tutorial or

11:01

YouTube explanation of something. But, but like short 32nd, one minute, like for example,

11:06

standard up to standup updates. I always feel why, why, why do you have to.

11:12

It's like, have to sit in a queue.

11:15

And then when, by when everyone starts giving updates and stuff, like instead

11:18

of digest, write a quick note or make a loom video, screen-share what

11:22

exactly you're doing in that site? It's on-site but I would say like, it's like a very I would say.

11:30

I'll be off looking at things. Maybe you actually have a team things B will be little bit different.

11:37

Like there will be other variables into play. So it might like even the long video sounds perfect.

11:43

It might not be possible to do so. So I'm not at that stage, I would say so that I would come where I can say to say

11:50

that this is like the best thing possible. swapnil: Yeah.

11:53

Yeah. Yeah. Let me try this out and report back on this house or did this in a team setting.

11:59

But it also is it related to the.

12:04

Tasks an individual is doing so if they have a lot of context then

12:08

they can then with it independently.

12:12

They can do. I think the startup rates are mostly for BMS, right?

12:18

First masters who want to keep a tab on where does a particular thing Stein.

12:26

And if they want to suggest or help out if, if there are any blockers, but at

12:33

the same time, the more I think about it, the more just I'm thinking out loud here.

12:38

I don't see. Bye everyone has do the standup dates at the same time.

12:44

Like you said, everyone comes. And it's so good.

12:47

And they do that. I think when one thing I can find a pro is that it's a ritual.

12:53

So it's a or, , the teams coming together.

12:57

So it's a good chance to drive by. Yeah.

13:00

If everyone gives it at their own time you don't have that sort of

13:06

bookmark comradery or maybe you can't

13:09

go deep into what someone is doing. So for example, if that person is giving an update right now, you can ask better

13:17

questions and probe deeper a bit, whatever it is, I think you'll most likely.

13:22

It's just be like, ah, I've seen this. Okay.

13:24

Skip it. Again, it's like an accordion view, right? I don't know, but yeah.

13:28

I don't know how that, how will that work in action?

13:30

We do district out. mukul: yeah, totally.

13:33

Like there will be no backend for it's like if someone needs giving just their

13:37

updates and that's totally if there is something they need to ask in that

13:43

case yeah, I guess if there is some back and forth, then X thread might be

13:47

fine, but yeah, I mean, I guess that's all that is solved by the standard.

13:52

But yeah, I mean, I have one question do I saw when to eat recently?

13:59

So I just wanted to get your thoughts on it. So there was this wine to eat where a person says something

14:06

like while starting out. your career, you should optimize your learning and not your salary.

14:14

And what do you think, like, what is your opinion on this?

14:18

swapnil: I think I agree a hundred percent along with the nuance that

14:22

you have your expenses sorted out.

14:27

So it's not like you are you got running four things.

14:31

And you're not able to make ends meet then at that point, of course, the salad

14:36

bar, the money bag matters a lot more.

14:39

But once you feel that an agreement in the salary's not going to increase

14:45

your quality of life significantly it's, again like a play long-term game.

14:50

Your learnings. Early on will help a lot in the later stages of equity.

14:55

And that is exactly the fact that we are on, right.

14:58

The sort of believing that otherwise Saudis are good only.

15:02

So mukul: Yeah, no, no. Yeah, I think.

15:04

I'd started after a certain point of time to, to make sense, but I'm just saying

15:08

again, when you're starting out, like, for example, now when you're starting

15:12

out, like you do not have enough savings.

15:14

I'm very conflicted with like what exactly to go with.

15:19

So why I'm a little bit confused.

15:21

Like for example, after savings event, you have the luxury of time.

15:26

Everything is good. Like the luxury of time and money.

15:29

Like for example, you have savings enough savings, like six months down,

15:33

six months savings, seven months savings, then you have options.

15:38

But now for example, you do not have. swapnil: I was going to come to the same file optionality.

15:45

So like if I was starting out and like, since you're mentioning it

15:50

specifically, just starting out, I would want to get the optionality

15:55

and a good starting point for that is you get a good salary at the start.

16:01

So you have savings. You have. mukul: you have swapnil: Safety net to fall back on.

16:04

It's not that you're living month to month. It's not that something let's say I do workplace.

16:10

Something goes back either between your, between you and your manager,

16:15

something goes bad or the startup or the company shuts down, whatever happens.

16:19

You know, you, if you don't have that cushion, you will sort of panic very

16:24

quickly and then you will not have

16:27

you're not to be a good state of mind to make that decision or whatever machine

16:30

that you make at that particular moment. It's also, I think I read somewhere on a similar line of salt, which

16:38

is, let's say you're investing your money in stocks or somewhere, right?

16:45

Oh, very important part here is to keep a certain portion of it in liquid state.

16:52

You'll have cash available at all points.

16:55

If not, what you'll end up doing is whenever you don't have anybody

17:01

to see, you're sort of losing out on a bunch of things because

17:06

you're all exerted that basically you don't have that optionality to either.

17:11

Sell or hold the market point, which might be fluctuating and it will give you

17:19

some fanning attacks at the same time.

17:23

If there's a good opportunity let's say you find something really awesome.

17:29

If you don't have the money, you can't really capitalize on that.

17:33

So it's the same thing with the early career career aspects.

17:38

If let's say your savings are not, you don't have the savings cushion

17:42

in place, then let's say you come across as really, really awesome.

17:47

Unfortunately, but this being less, then you can't really switch to that because

17:54

you don't have that push in place. I feel having that cushion would be my first priority in life.

18:00

Again, like everything everyone's scanned person, but for me it would be.

18:04

Get that question first and increase your optionality

18:09

funnel for all your later years.

18:13

I think that is how I think about it. What are your thoughts?

18:17

mukul: Yeah. same. The tweet when I saw it, I was like, oh, this is something I

18:21

don't like when people glorify.

18:25

Learning part so that they can get away with paying less.

18:29

And actually to be honest I mean, at that point your mind is not clear, so

18:34

you will go with whatever you have. But now when I think like it's best to have that financial secure.

18:40

That will make you a less desperate, like for example, if things are not

18:45

going right, you can say no, otherwise you do not have an option to say no.

18:49

So this is like for the pros part and for the coin, like, for example, if you

18:53

want to think, like, when I say that you want to optimize for learnings, If

19:00

you're just optimizing for learning. I don't think it makes sense for if it, if it is giving higher

19:05

returns, then it's worth the risk. for example, if you're taking like 10 X risks, should be X returns.

19:12

At least if it is not paying 10 X returns, then it's not at all worth it to risk it.

19:18

Like in terms of learning in terms of it's like a very practical thing.

19:21

For example, if. Starting up then you're taking up that risk because if it works

19:27

out, you'll get the 10 X data. But if you're joining it as an employee at a very low salary,

19:34

just imagine even if the startup 10, if you are not going to 10 X.

19:38

So in that sense, I would say this late.

19:43

So when I see a few years back I used to think, oh, I should prioritize

19:48

companies, things and stuff, but you should prioritize yourself.

19:52

I should prioritize me. I should prioritize my other things.

19:55

I should get the financial security first, like and then when we have that option,

20:00

then go learn whatever you want to learn.

20:03

Go spend whatever you want to spend. I think that I that's how I feel like post optimize for earnings and

20:12

then optimize for learning spot.

20:17

swapnil: Yeah, just that I think being mindful of it helps that.

20:22

Buttons, you start earning, of course, that is a valid part as well, but

20:30

don't change your goal too often.

20:32

Like if you want to maybe select something that, you know, this

20:35

is the number then after that you want to optimize on your learnings.

20:39

But when you actually these there, and then you increase that number,

20:43

I think then you are in now. mukul: know. swapnil: And less loop it's like, so yesterday.

20:50

mukul: I actually so there is some number, I think number might be different in

20:55

everybody's life, where they are staying and what their expenses are, but there

21:00

is some number in everyone's life.

21:03

If they cross it, money and happiness, doesn't go to.

21:09

Like, for example, if they're below that the money and happiness correlate,

21:13

like for example, money makes you happy because you have things to spend on and

21:18

you are relaxed and all those things. But after a certain point, like, for example, if you have money to spend

21:22

on then money and happiness, don't go read it because you know, like

21:26

things as ordered, but the things that makes you happy are different.

21:30

it's like one very important variable. In that case, I guess you would strive for more like a different thing.

21:36

Like will strive for things that makes you happy.

21:40

in that, in your case, you, were getting paid like you will financially secure.

21:46

But then you choose after that, like Jerry, or after that point, you choose

21:51

to do something makes you happy.

21:55

It's like you optimize for your financial first and then you optimized for your

22:00

happiness first as something like that.

22:04

swapnil: Yeah, go. It's like the Maslow's hierarchy of needs.

22:08

Once you sort of soldier on one level, then only then you have a good platform

22:13

to explore the next one otherwise. So I see it as a ladder.

22:17

So once you have a good step, good foothold on your previous steps,

22:22

then only to reach for the next one. If you don't do it.

22:25

There will be like a small disturbance and you list on your head.

22:29

mukul: Yeah. swapnil: So having a stable platform is super important.

22:34

mukul: Definitely. Definitely. Yeah.

22:38

So one question I had was like, what is your relationship with money?

22:44

So, I mean do you have goal in mind that you want to earn this much?

22:51

Or do you like into savings a lot?

22:53

Like what exactly do you think when you think about money?

22:57

I swapnil: Some did some calculations and I think it's something, something

23:07

, mukul: I, swapnil: I got acquitted as like, I am optimizing for the passive

23:14

income of thousand dollars a month. That is my gutted and goal in mind, you can change, retain, but

23:23

I feel that at least for the next few years, this is something.

23:26

That works out well. And again, like you said, after the point, money does not correlate with happiness.

23:34

This is my book about which of course, if you have money, you can spend more money.

23:41

I there are no shortages of me it's to spend money, but this is

23:44

like a good enough number, which supports the lifestyle that I want.

23:50

I'm the and yeah, all the rest of the things.

23:56

Yeah. About whatever I do. Do you get on the hiring side or the community site?

24:03

All of them are like sort of aim towards reaching dieting and passive income.

24:08

Yeah. mukul: Yeah.

24:14

Fantastic. Sounds interesting. For me yeah, I never thought of it like a passive income.

24:20

It should be like, should have like some fixed set number of facet income.

24:26

swapnil: You're not free to do anything. It was born.

24:29

Of course you didn't choose to do the same things that you're

24:32

doing now, but what do we do now?

24:34

At least there is some aspect of financials there, head, that,

24:39

Hey, these are the actions that really give the most died away.

24:42

And these are the actions that will generate revenue.

24:44

So you have those things in place, right. Versus if you have the passive income balloting set.

24:51

mukul: set. up, Then swapnil: in the truest sense you are just choosing or the

24:55

problems that you want to work on. I'm pretty sure that, I will be working on some problem.

24:59

I'm pretty sure you will also I don't think we can just sit

25:04

idle for a long period of time. I've tried that as well to get back to bite.

25:08

I got bored pretty quick, so I'm pretty sure that I'll be working on

25:12

something, but it could be our great. mukul: eight.

25:14

So basically swapnil: Then it will, mukul: it will,

25:16

swapnil: this is something that I realized when I was solo, I was

25:20

learning music production of us back. And I did some writing courses as well.

25:25

So as soon as I thought of making money from those things,

25:32

it started becoming boring. I lost interest pretty quickly in them.

25:37

And so yeah, the current aim is to return a place.

25:41

If I want to explore some artistic hobbies and things, I have zero

25:47

motivation or a zero alienation of making any money from it.

25:51

So I can truly enjoy it just for the sake of preventing or not.

25:56

Anything else. mukul: Hmm.

26:01

That's interesting. Yeah, totally makes sense for yeah, for me, I would say it's I

26:07

personally don't have an exact number.

26:10

Definitely. I just want to have that option, like you're financially secure,

26:19

for example, if you want to do something, you had option to do it.

26:24

They, you don't have that restriction.

26:26

You don't have that thing holding back that, Hey it's costing me

26:30

this much, then I shouldn't do it. Or I should wait for the same, all those things.

26:36

So Actually doing it as a different thing, but having an option

26:39

to do it as a different thing. So,

26:42

swapnil: Oh, mukul: yeah, I personally feel like in other than like financial security part

26:49

that having an option to do their thing is something which I feel I've worn.

26:55

Like that's what I feel when I think about. I mean, I know that because I feel so for example, come from a middle-class

27:03

background, so whatever requirements are have, it's not like I'm going to

27:09

spend on very super luxurious things. And then something like that.

27:13

So it's just late for you. Don't believe when, if you want to do something, if you're going to

27:17

do like a stupid thing, even if we wanted to spend on some stupid thing,

27:21

should have an option to do it. It's like that's where I would like and, and with respect to work part, I

27:29

feel that's how we are like and stuff.

27:36

Like we like to do things. And everybody likes to do something.

27:40

And so it's just that, like, for example, even if something happens,

27:44

even if we sell our apps right now, I know that there's no point in selling

27:50

and stuff because the next day we'll work on something else next week.

27:58

So there's no point in running because currently work is play and.

28:05

What's the point in I mean, if we are enjoying the process and what to the

28:10

point of like sending for extra money, like, because it's, not going to make

28:15

like, exactly like a difference because the difference has already happened.

28:21

The stress is already gone. a when you now think of something you'd not yet.

28:27

In most of the cases, you do not think that, Hey, This is stopping me from

28:30

doing this or something like that. Right. So, you mentioned right now, the levels and stuff, I feel like

28:37

in that levels slowly moving up.

28:41

And like, I personally like it, that the optimization function, it's

28:46

not like now maximizing the money.

28:49

It's like maximizing what you like to do and maximize the happiness.

28:55

Because the money part will increase slowly and gradually.

29:01

So that per se, I feel like that has happened with me in last one, two years.

29:07

And I liked that part.

29:10

I love that part actually. swapnil: This is pretty cool.

29:16

So like this point cost like almost the secretary fee to meet.

29:24

We've got like formation bias, chamber, whatever.

29:30

I don't think you understand the direction, whatever you are thinking.

29:34

I can relate just like. mukul: Yeah.

29:39

mean, it really, for example, when you it's like when you're discussing with

29:47

someone and they had the same thing, then you realize like you're not the

29:50

only one who's thinking it alone. swapnil: Yeah. mukul: this direction.

29:55

Yeah. do totally makes sense. swapnil: So both group.

30:00

mukul: So, yeah, I have wanted to do this segment when we started

30:05

like episode, episode one. I don't understand.

30:08

I would, I wanted to do the segment. I look at this.

30:19

So I wanted to do this segment when we started this podcast.

30:22

So it's like a section where we.

30:26

Just say one thing, which we like in the last week, it can be, and episode

30:33

of some TV series, it can be an app.

30:36

It can be a podcast.

30:38

It can be a book. It can be a paragraph of book.

30:42

It can be anything. It can be anything you like in last one week.

30:47

So, yeah, go.

30:50

swapnil: yeah, I go with a newsletter it's called.

30:54

They're not really changes.

30:57

I know. I think that is the most unique newsletter subscribe.

31:05

And it's pretty hard to explain it.

31:07

Okay. But we'll try to explain it. It's like the newsletter will literally have 10 to 15 words.

31:12

That is it. It was just like one sentence.

31:14

And it's very different from any newsletter you might have

31:18

seen before. And that is like a unique hook that, that gets me to open it every

31:24

time it gets my inbox and it will have like, no, some Flipboard 10%.

31:29

mukul: to say, swapnil: So, yeah, it's, , you're not really strangers.

31:35

I later come in and said, mukul: So what's on it.

31:38

Like it's like they don't have, like, they just have like few words.

31:42

They don't have like whole email content or big newsletter or stuff.

31:48

It's like 20 words, 30 swapnil: yeah, yeah.

31:50

mukul: And was the topic swapnil: need that? We need third is also.

31:55

A bit it's a very small things have been words and it's mostly

32:00

like, just like a nice thing. They say something nice.

32:03

And I don't know how to explain this, this, this, to it and this, like,

32:06

I'm telling you the suspect to it. You'll find out what I'm talking about.

32:10

It's pretty nice, mukul: Okay.

32:12

There's a, it's like a secret, like the topic I just subscribed to it like

32:17

this and they said that they send me, they'll send me some confirmation link.

32:21

Okay. Yeah. Might've figured this out, but interesting.

32:25

interesting. So when, when does it get, like, when do you get that?

32:30

Like, w it's like every Monday, every Tuesday, every Thursday, something that,

32:36

swapnil: No, no. It's, it's like, I don't think we get twice tastes.

32:39

I mean, I'm also you saying you subscribe to it.

32:41

So I don't know the actual frequency bike.

32:47

Yeah. I've been recommending this was there to do a lot of.

32:51

It's like the word newsletter. There's no product that they're selling this.

32:54

I think it's just like, you feel nice after you landed.

32:59

mukul: interesting swapnil: It feels like a friend checking in.

33:02

That's the best way I can describe it. mukul: Yeah.

33:06

I feel that will be good for. The good dopamine hits.

33:10

definitely taking swapnil: Yep. Yeah. What about what busy Arctic commendation for.

33:17

mukul: Hm. So the saintly, I didn't ask spoken about this earlier too, but

33:22

recently final season of like.

33:25

Like a started and it's legal on third, fourth episode.

33:31

And that is one I read demand.

33:36

it's the animal, which is catching up to the story now and this animal,

33:43

this animal and this whole story.

33:46

I mean, I mean, it, it is so good.

33:50

Like. No, the whole story and whole, but like whole thing so much.

33:57

And I think it's so deep.

34:00

I wish like more people watch it so that they will realize that,

34:05

oh, this is like such a masterpiece kind of thing, because it's.

34:11

for. example, when I say like, there are just some giant monsters, 15

34:16

humans that kind of takes away what that series is, and it is So much

34:24

more, it is so much more it's on.

34:27

I mean, when you, you watch that you will get like a totally different perspective.

34:33

They have, whenever was that series. I, I feel I got a totally different perspective of how are like, say,

34:42

for example, how wars are like, like how for example, you cannot say

34:46

that that person is enemy in war.

34:50

Like something I'll just give you like a brief, just.

34:55

This series, what it does, it will tell you a story from HEDA point

35:00

of view, there is a hero in it.

35:03

So will tell you a story from his point of view, from the start, and they will

35:10

show you all the bad things happen.

35:13

All the things that I was, which is happening to him, and you will

35:16

start sympathizing with them. You will start feeling, oh, is sort on what is happening with them?

35:23

Everything that they I mean, everything that is happening to them is wrong.

35:28

Something like that. And then in a second or third switches the narrative in such

35:35

a way that they show that.

35:37

Hero site is actually a wrong and the whole world is against them.

35:43

like, for example, a zoom late, you were born in Nazi, Germany.

35:47

You were born in 1945. You didn't travel, you didn't know anything outside.

35:53

And you were just born into that world and you were fighting

35:57

for the Nazi Germany part. You will think that you are doing right.

36:02

the thing that you are doing everything in your lake to save your family,

36:06

to say whatever you think is right.

36:09

But the whole world is against you.

36:12

Whole world wants to beat you then.

36:16

Then who do you think is right? Like there's also a nice relation between like, and it

36:23

has like amazing foreshadowing. So like for example, happens in the future, the author has foreshadowed

36:32

it in like old episodes somehow.

36:36

it's like, the depth that manga has, it's totally mind blowing.

36:42

When someone says that they are like evil, like you cannot say oh, it's like that

36:49

this must be some kind of thought process or brainwashing they have been through.

36:55

I they're, they come in which totally summarizes the author,

36:59

brainwashes you in a way that makes you think that whole world is your.

37:05

And can brainwash and that's the most beautiful and amazing part of it.

37:12

Like brainwashes you to think that, so the whole then motivation of the hero

37:19

is to destroy the whole world and author brainwashes you to think that this is.

37:27

And that's like so beautiful. And that's like so scary that can get brainwashed at any point of

37:32

time, even if you think like are.

37:35

So I would say, like, for example, if you're saying like, we are

37:39

literally, we have studied this much, we have studied that much, but you

37:44

can still get brainwashed plate. You can still get a con into believing that this idea is true.

37:52

As a whole it might not be true. I'm not sure I'm doing the best job in explaining the whole,

38:00

swapnil: So actually I'll talk about it in a second quick question.

38:04

When does the narrative switch happen in terms of episode number?

38:09

mukul: oh yeah. So number it happens after 30, it happens after third season.

38:16

swapnil: Heard season. Oh my God. Got it. Okay.

38:19

Really pretty far away. So I actually had started

38:23

mukul: I got died. swapnil: Up to you as bad. And I've watched the first couple of episodes when it paid very goody.

38:30

And if there was a lot of I dunno, there's a lot of bad stuff in Walden.

38:35

I sort of lifted and never figured out. mukul: Yeah.

38:39

Yeah. It's, it's dark, it's dark, but it's story is so beautiful that it's late.

38:44

For example, you have to let it grow for some time and then it will.

38:49

Mm. like then once you see back, like what exactly that meant, and you will

38:53

think, oh, this is like a meeting. This is mind blowing.

38:55

So has like I think a lot of thinking and effort, he has put the

39:00

foundation for like first two seasons.

39:03

And after that from third season is totally different.

39:06

It's like, and I tell you, like, once you watch it, right, like when

39:10

you was three season and when you watch four season Yeah, In every

39:15

episode, you will think like an irony, like li it's like what they did.

39:25

like, for example, and you see it, right. Like wrong is happening with me.

39:30

And then after sometime you do the same wrong thing with them.

39:36

So it's like, for example, the model.

39:39

You will have so many moral dilemmas the time after their day.

39:44

It's so good. It will question your, I mean, if you're watching that intensely

39:50

and seriously, obviously, like watching that very seriously.

39:53

And so moral dilemma and moral, it will question that morality and I that.

40:01

It's not like black and white. It's totally.

40:05

Nothing is nothing is wrong at some point next.

40:07

What will you choose? swapnil: speed is like pretty good writing.

40:13

So I'm definitely pulling it up on my watch list.

40:19

I will give it a try again. mukul: yeah, definitely.

40:22

I would say vagina holding because it grows you will feel that you're

40:26

starting it slow, but it's like a base.

40:29

So when. A few things happen.

40:32

Everything will start clicking in and as a story, whole story to beautiful.

40:38

So, I mean, it's very deep, so yeah, I mean, I want more people to watch it,

40:43

to just to see like what a beautiful wild land story that it escalated

40:48

because I, to be honest, was it last.

40:52

And I had the same thought, why would I watch it?

40:55

It's just an anime where like big giants out and humans and something like that.

40:59

But they never watched it. I was like, no, no, it's Lord, Lord, Lord, Lord.

41:05

More than that. She'll Yeah.

41:08

I mean differently if you, if it was there let me know how it goes for you.

41:14

swapnil: Now you're using three and two about it.

41:16

So I'm definitely going to discuss this.

41:19

mukul: definitely. Definitely. Yeah. There is one, like one friend of mine who is into it as me.

41:26

So he's like, he, he, he, so we share the same things.

41:30

Like, for example, whenever something interesting happens in the episode,

41:34

or he has read the manga, so he knows like, what exactly is going to happen.

41:38

So then he shares like a lot of foreshadowing with me that oh,

41:42

Or third has foreshadowed this. like thing, which is in chapter 100, he has foreshadowed

41:49

it in like chapter 5, 6, 7. So it's like very cool.

41:53

Like I love it. Yeah, seen yeah, I have so didn't want to call it.

42:02

swapnil: I'm pretty sold. Yes. So I think have this, this is a good CPA books.

42:07

If you have voice that I contacted for your review and the status at

42:11

hand that is going to look forward and yeah, I am pretty convinced, but.

42:16

We never hurts to see more reviews coming in.

42:18

Yeah, that's all about today's episode.