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the was take recovery for granted

0:31

if you healthy you trust that if you get

0:33

a cold or the flu you'll get better

0:35

sometimes it doesn't happen is difficult

0:38

to imagine

0:39

what would be like if that level of illness

0:41

dispersed

0:43

why did for weeks and months and

0:45

then years you've probably heard of

0:47

long cove it according to a recent

0:49

government survey about one in

0:51

five adults who had covered nineteen

0:54

in the us have experienced lingering

0:56

symptoms from the on this

0:58

now long cove with his

1:00

new and outcome of the recent pandemic

1:03

the experience of symptoms class

1:05

thing after an illness isn't

1:07

new to some people like winston

1:10

a number of people to tell me that i was the most

1:12

athletic person ever met my

1:14

regular day to day life was pretty

1:16

rigorous the time years ago

1:19

winston was an ambitious twenty something

1:21

living something san francisco he went

1:23

camping on the weekends snowboarding

1:25

weekends snowboarding winter and cycled year

1:27

round even spent twenty four

1:29

days biking across europe during

1:31

the summer of twenty fifteen it

1:34

was actually a race called the transcontinental

1:37

the started in brussels and ended in istanbul

1:40

you to have to go as far as you can everyday

1:42

unsupported the transcontinental

1:45

is one of the toughest ultra endurance

1:47

bike races in the world now

1:49

obviously winston was participating

1:51

in a twenty seven hundred mile bike race every

1:54

day but by any measure he

1:56

was athletic the day i

1:58

lifestyle is to say the more it geriatric

2:01

these days six

2:04

years ago winston was diagnosed

2:06

with an illness caught my algae and

2:08

several of my ally this also known

2:10

as chronic fatigue syndrome the called

2:13

amy cfs that m e

2:15

slash cfs not

2:18

much is known or understood about the disease

2:21

the most people get it after

2:23

an infectious illness winston

2:25

got it after a bad case of mononucleosis

2:28

three months after he recovered though

2:31

a new set of symptoms set in i

2:33

woke up one day and i

2:36

felt like my legs were led

2:39

i remember getting into the shower and just

2:41

feeling slightly off balance and

2:44

i had a strange sense of a t come over me

2:47

he thought he might have the flu that

2:49

you're only reference point when given

2:51

a healthy person to date new haven't had to

2:53

deal with chronic illness you

2:56

never assume this must

2:58

be some kind of serious condition but

3:01

it was serious condition the

3:03

early weeks of my illness i made

3:05

a connection that the more i recycling

3:08

the worst i felt the certain point

3:10

i recall being in my garage

3:13

and setting my bike up against side of

3:15

the wall and just thinking like or

3:17

it all down scummy couple weeks before gets ride

3:19

you again and that was

3:21

six years ago

3:24

on winces best days he takes a slow

3:27

meditative walk around the neighborhood

3:30

on a bad day i don't i don't

3:32

so those are bad days i went the lucky

3:34

ones i'm not permanently that down winston

3:37

rests on these days because when

3:40

it comes to emmy cfs sometimes

3:42

rest is all there is there

3:44

are no f d a approved

3:47

treatments from the freakonomics

3:49

radio network is freakonomics md

3:52

i'm baffled jenna i'm an economist and

3:54

i'm also a medical doctor each episode

3:56

i dissect an interesting question at

3:59

the sweet spot but help and economics

4:02

today why has why has

4:04

illness receive so little attention

4:06

from the medical community and

4:08

might that be changing thanks to long

4:11

covert

4:27

let's start by diving into what amy cfs

4:29

looks like for patients it's not

4:31

something i've seen a lot of so to help

4:33

me understand more about the disease i

4:36

spoke to dr tony com roth a

4:38

senior position at brigham and women's hospital

4:40

in boston and a professor

4:42

at harvard medical school he's treated

4:45

emmy cfs patience for over thirty

4:47

years

4:50

the main symptoms are

4:52

fatigue feeling wiped

4:55

out following even modest physical

4:57

or mental exertion and refreshing

4:59

sleep awakening multiple times

5:02

at night brain fog or difficulty

5:04

concentrating difficulty remaining

5:07

upright for very long and so this

5:09

fatigue is this is not normal for

5:11

t menu described as pathological

5:13

right yes that's very important point

5:15

every human being gets tired this

5:18

is qualitatively different it's severe

5:20

enough that it interferes with

5:22

your lights at home and at work

5:24

if you can work and

5:26

it is not relieved by rest

5:30

up to seventy five percent of amy cfs

5:32

patients can't work but winston

5:35

still can most of my energy

5:37

goes toward retaining my job and

5:40

, means that i need to forgo things like

5:43

watching tv they could tax manageability

5:45

much so yeah i

5:48

was kind of required to myself her second to

5:50

get to the interview winston had winston take

5:52

breaks he explained how even the

5:54

act of talking to us was exhausting

5:57

us was a profound sensation

5:59

of

5:59

the

6:00

but i also feel of

6:03

an adrenalin buzzing a

6:05

lot of people call it tired but wired

6:08

and , is funny kind of paradox

6:10

this condition that you feel is extraordinarily

6:13

deep fatigue at all times but

6:15

you also can't sleep sleep thing that

6:17

i'm feeling right now is a

6:19

lot of pressure in my head so

6:21

it feels like my brain is being squeezed

6:24

and the more energy i expand

6:27

the tighter and tighter it squeezes and it's

6:29

more difficult to think clearly

6:34

the

6:40

what's a progression of the disease it

6:42

begins in most people

6:44

pretty suddenly and

6:47

it begins with what seemed

6:49

to be an infectious like illness most

6:51

of the people i've seen close to five

6:54

hundred say that they were

6:56

perfectly fine perfectly healthy

6:58

and then one day they came down with the

7:00

virus likes the flu

7:02

virus said had many times in the past

7:05

the time they never that

7:07

better amy cfs affects

7:09

up the two and a half million people in

7:12

the us and millions more globally

7:15

from an epidemiological standpoint they're actually

7:17

aren't many clues as to who's at risk

7:20

the report from the national academy of medicine

7:22

said that patients with the illness or more

7:25

functionally impaired those with

7:27

other disabling illnesses by congestive

7:29

heart failure hypertension depression

7:32

and multiple sclerosis

7:36

the most gary about all of

7:38

this is it only five percent of people

7:40

with amy cfs recover and

7:43

while they are no f d a approved treatments

7:45

as tony tortoise earlier some options

7:48

exist there are a whole bunch

7:50

of different already approved

7:52

drugs approved for other purposes

7:55

that appear to give some

7:57

people relief from some

7:59

of the same

7:59

there's certainly nothing that would approach

8:02

a cure but there

8:04

are medicines that help

8:06

them people do you think that they are treating

8:08

the symptoms are they treating the underlying cause

8:11

of the symptoms i think

8:13

it's largely treating the symptoms

8:18

the key is a symptom of so many illnesses

8:21

anemia cancer heart disease

8:23

so i wondered how are patients

8:25

even diagnosed is it based on symptoms

8:28

or are there specific diagnostic test

8:31

that can confirm if someone has and

8:33

be cfs

8:34

the case definition still

8:36

relies entirely on symptoms

8:39

no objective

8:41

marker of any kind blood test

8:44

urine test imaging study

8:46

has been found to have high

8:49

enough sensitivity and specificity

8:52

who constitute a diagnostic

8:54

test that

8:56

is very different than asking questions

8:59

are there any biomarkers that

9:02

significantly distinguish

9:04

patience with this illness

9:06

from healthy people have the same age

9:08

and gender

9:11

amy cfs has been around for a while

9:14

but it captured national attention

9:16

in the mid nineteen eighties when outbreaks

9:19

occurred in nevada in new york tony

9:21

started seeing patients around that time

9:24

with an unusual group of symptoms and

9:26

realized it was something new but

9:28

the diagnostic test available to him

9:30

back then made it hard to identify

9:33

anything abnormal in patients

9:36

medical testing today is a lot more advanced

9:38

though in able to pick up on abnormalities

9:41

in patients with emmy cfs it's

9:43

, a very complex disease to diagnose

9:46

because doctors have to rely only

9:48

on symptoms this has led to

9:50

a lot of stigma amy cfs

9:53

has been called derogatory names like

9:55

yuppie flu or circus syndrome

9:58

it was really referred

9:59

who as being a psychiatric

10:02

psychological hysteria

10:05

that vicky widmore she's a program

10:07

director at the national institutes of health

10:09

this day there's the perception

10:12

that emmy cfs is psychosomatic

10:15

or their people with the disease or just

10:17

a press

10:18

they're really working against pets

10:20

stigma

10:21

but is still does exist out

10:23

there

10:23

i heard someone this morning say that

10:26

she had just heard from her retired

10:28

there of neurology

10:31

that it's really hysteria there's no such thing

10:33

as a bcs as a disease

10:36

pretty frightening

10:37

even the name chronic fatigue syndrome

10:40

shortages the disease

10:42

the t gives the impression that people

10:44

are just tired the level

10:46

of a t v experience isn't

10:49

normal it's path logic some

10:51

people with emmy cfs describe

10:53

it like their body is a battery that's

10:55

run out of charge to me a

10:57

little bit about the through uncertainty

11:00

and the diagnostic process in what

11:02

that means for how physicians perceive

11:05

the illness stigmatization

11:07

of the on this when a patient

11:09

walk through the door

11:11

these symptoms that lead you

11:13

to say oh my goodness they

11:16

have something for which there is no

11:18

approved diagnostic test than

11:20

there is no a d a approved

11:23

treatment that frustrating and

11:25

people including doctors

11:27

like to avoid frustrating situation

11:30

doctors unfamiliarity with

11:32

the disease or discomfort in diagnosing

11:35

could stem from the fact that at least until

11:37

recently less than one third

11:39

of medical schools cover amy cfs

11:42

in their curriculum twenty fifteen

11:44

report found that it takes most

11:46

patients more than a year to be diagnosed

11:49

and many of them much longer than that in

11:51

fact is believed that up the ninety one percent

11:53

of patients are undiagnosed over

11:58

the past two years dot the started

12:00

seeing patients with a range of symptoms

12:02

that remain after a covert nineteen

12:04

infection what's been termed long

12:07

cove the to doctors who

12:09

treat emmy cfs the symptoms

12:11

are extremely familiar and

12:13

, the illnesses look alike

12:15

in a lot of ways they can affect

12:17

the autonomic nervous system energy

12:19

metabolism and auto immunity

12:22

immunity also more and more evidence that patients

12:25

have long covered in amy cfs

12:27

of abnormal gut bacteria which

12:30

causes which but

12:32

beyond the biological similarities among

12:34

patients the to illnesses can

12:36

also cause similar reactions from

12:38

doctors frustration from

12:40

skepticism is an

12:43

example of is the

12:45

victim to imply

12:47

did the patient that the patients

12:50

doesn't really have really problem worse

12:53

that if they have a problem it's a problem

12:55

with their imagination or mental

12:57

problems that does happen

13:00

and that is inexcusable icing

13:02

on the part of doctors with both long

13:04

covered and emmy css

13:09

begin as an economist now long

13:12

covert i suspect is much

13:14

more prevalent than prevalent me cfs

13:16

and will continue to be do you think that

13:19

the presence of long cove it will

13:22

advance potential therapeutic

13:24

since diagnostic understanding

13:26

that would then spillover positively

13:29

into emmy cfs i

13:31

absolutely do that

13:33

federal government is dedicated over

13:35

a billion dollars to study

13:37

the chronic health consequences

13:40

of a tude covered nineteen one

13:43

, of which is the development

13:46

of long coated if i'm

13:48

right that i'm right

13:50

similarities between emmy css

13:52

and long covered are much greater then

13:55

the differences then put ever is gonna

13:57

be learned about long cove

13:59

is probably gonna be applicable

14:02

to any css

14:05

another thing emmy cfs

14:07

and long covert have in common is

14:09

that we still don't know why some people

14:11

develop the conditions and others don't the

14:14

most of us have an infection the body deals

14:16

with it you get better i would

14:19

emmy cfs and long cove it the

14:21

body's response persists according

14:24

to tony this could be caused by number

14:26

of things if the initial insult

14:28

to the body is an infection see a virus

14:31

he could be that there are reservoirs of the

14:33

infection that remain in the body fire

14:36

persistence has been documented in long covert

14:38

patients that's one thought

14:40

another is that

14:42

many of the ongoing symptoms

14:44

may reflect

14:46

the reactivation of viruses

14:49

that already on the body practically

14:51

all of us have certain

14:53

viruses that live within us

14:55

for most of our lives there usually

14:58

asleep that they can reawaken

15:00

or reactivate and then

15:02

multiply

15:03

in that can potentially cause

15:06

symptoms so there are some people

15:08

in which video section

15:11

seems to have reawaken viruses

15:13

that were in the body for many decades

15:16

and that may be the symptoms

15:19

that or chronic are being caused

15:21

by those reactivated viruses

15:23

not by the covert voters

15:25

essentially tony is saying that the symptoms

15:27

of an me cfs or long covert

15:30

might be caused by a virus that's

15:32

been lying dormant in someone system

15:34

possibly for years until something

15:36

reawakened

15:38

i think the most important unanswered question

15:40

about emmy css and

15:43

long covered and all

15:45

of these other chronic fatigue

15:47

aliases is

15:49

one closer to symptoms

15:52

the theory with some scientific

15:54

support that i

15:56

think is the most interesting

15:59

the first

15:59

yeah it to me by the first patient

16:02

i ever saw with this illness who said

16:04

it's like the flu but the flu

16:06

that never goes away and

16:09

that led major think well actually

16:11

why do we feel the way we do when

16:13

we get the flu

16:14

why

16:17

do we when humans get sick

16:19

let's say with the flu there's one liable

16:22

set of symptoms that we have we feel

16:24

fatigued lethargic we lose

16:26

her appetite maybe we find it

16:28

difficult to think straight sick

16:30

, are present in most animals

16:32

even worms these adapt to

16:34

changes in physiology have been

16:36

evolutionarily preserved as

16:39

evolutionarily preserved to protect ourselves and increase or

16:41

chance at survival when we get said

16:43

how do we symptoms do that well they

16:46

cause you to reduce energy consuming

16:48

activities you move less is

16:50

think less you eat less that

16:52

leaves more energy to fight the infection

16:55

or hear the injury only

16:57

think they could be one pathway in

16:59

the brain that when it's triggered

17:01

by an infection causes these

17:03

symptoms my thought was

17:06

there's probably

17:08

the group of neurons in the brain

17:10

a nucleus of neurons that

17:13

dedicated

17:14

yeah to generating sick the symptoms

17:17

though that behavior will change

17:20

so that energy consuming activities

17:22

will be reduced so that more energy will

17:24

be available to fight the and section

17:27

as that was a beautiful theory

17:30

without a shred of

17:32

evidence until about a

17:34

week ago okay an anathema

17:36

the edge of my seat a paper was published

17:39

in nature that signs

17:41

exactly this kind of the nucleus

17:44

of neurons in the brains of mice

17:46

brains the hypothalamus

17:48

when it's stimulated the mice

17:50

don't move around much they don't want to

17:52

eat much their behaviors suggest

17:55

they are having the same group symptoms

17:57

with emmy cfs long the

18:00

and similar illnesses could

18:02

it be that nucleus

18:05

the easier to switch to turn it

18:07

off after the a tool in section

18:09

that stuff and , can't

18:11

turn off more attractive

18:13

to me is there is a chronic

18:17

process in the body that

18:19

is acting on this nucleus

18:21

in the brain to that

18:24

is persistent sickness

18:26

symptoms and if

18:29

i wanted to put my money on a bed that's

18:31

where i put my money so the

18:34

bar your language there's an on and off

18:36

switch the switch goes on when the nucleus

18:38

detect something that's wrong and sometimes

18:41

pathologically that's which could just stay on

18:44

even if there's nothing else in the body

18:46

that's happening exactly and when

18:48

that switch turned on it creates from

18:50

this evolutionary perspective the symptoms

18:52

that we've been talking about and

18:54

so if we're in this world where the

18:56

switches inappropriately on

18:59

then figuring out how to turn off that switch

19:02

would perhaps solve the problem of the

19:04

symptoms but if we're in a world

19:06

where the switches appropriately

19:08

on turning off that switch could

19:10

that cause more problems it

19:13

could use got it exactly right

19:15

and since i think it's more likely

19:17

that the switches appropriately

19:20

turned down a chronically then trying

19:22

to turn the switch off probably isn't

19:24

a good idea even if it were possible

19:27

long

19:29

cove it has been around just over two years

19:32

but it's already received over a billion

19:34

dollars in funding from the federal government

19:37

meanwhile emmy cfs has been

19:39

studied since the nineteen eighties nearly

19:42

forty years but there's still

19:44

a lot it's unknown and funding

19:46

has been sparse so why

19:48

is that there

19:49

the really an outcry from the community

19:52

that a huge was not doing enough

19:54

coming up with an illness

19:56

is stigmatized in hard to diagnose

19:59

two paces speed hi

20:01

barbara jenna and this is freakonomics md

20:12

over a billion dollars have been allocated

20:15

to steadying long cove that's way

20:17

more money that has ever been spent on

20:19

amy cfs research return

20:22

times that amount mentally and

20:24

then increase over time that's

20:27

ronald davis he's an emmy cfs

20:29

researcher and a professor of biochemistry

20:32

and genetics at stanford university the

20:34

geneticists studies year inherited

20:37

material which is largely

20:39

dna these well known

20:41

for his pioneering work on the human genome

20:43

project and has enjoyed a long

20:45

history of successful funding by

20:48

the nih

20:48

ronald

20:51

had a son named whitney defoe whitney

20:54

has a very severe form of emmy cfs

20:57

he can't leave his bed and at times has been

20:59

unable to communicate or feed himself

21:02

the past he could not look

21:04

at a letter or number and

21:06

his room because he said when i see a letter

21:09

my brain interprets that's an a

21:12

while that's almost beyond my capacity

21:14

caused me the crash so i cannot

21:17

see letters or numbers because

21:19

i know that they mean something and

21:21

so i had to go in his room with my dram or

21:24

tool and grind us anything

21:26

at a letter or number on it when he

21:28

was healthy whitney was a photographer

21:30

an avid traveler what in

21:33

his early twenties he began to feel

21:35

sick with a strange constellation

21:37

of symptoms he noticed that travel

21:39

and photography suit would make his symptoms

21:42

feel worse but doctors couldn't

21:44

figure out what was wrong eventually

21:46

he had to move home then it became

21:48

clear you can take care of himself that

21:51

was the turning point for me

21:55

around twenty twelve whitney was finally

21:57

diagnosed with amy cfs

22:00

renault did would any site to do

22:02

it look for answers the field

22:04

of msf us was a better

22:06

but desert it was clear

22:09

to me that he was not gonna get

22:11

are cured of as unless

22:13

some good scientists guy involved in it so

22:16

i started working on and rating the

22:18

biggest problem as a person not don't much

22:20

money and so a lot of researchers

22:23

will mark will mark bit on at that they can't really fun

22:25

their entire lab because of the like a sunday

22:27

the make inroads into the illness

22:30

and twenty fourteen ronald shifted

22:32

his labs focus the emmy cfs

22:35

our program as number one trying to figure out

22:37

how to cure this disease that's

22:39

course very hard that understand a lot

22:41

about at the other one else can we come up with something

22:44

that would help the patience make

22:46

them feel better that is not quite

22:48

as hard as curing the other

22:50

one is to develop a diagnostic

22:52

test because the diagnosis of this

22:54

disease and just from symptoms the

22:57

for thing is currently figure out how to

22:59

prevent disease for mapping of the first place

23:02

we have to understand what is the fundamental problem

23:05

they don't know that yeah the find is

23:07

amy cfs research center i'm

23:09

not apply for funding from the national institutes

23:11

of health the largest funding organization

23:14

for all medical research i

23:16

wrote grant after grad out the grab all

23:18

of which were turned down for various reasons the

23:21

only one of his twenty four grants

23:23

on amy cfs has been successfully

23:25

sunday

23:27

the nih spent seventeen million

23:30

dollars a year on amy cfs

23:32

research for comparison and

23:34

twenty twenty one the institute

23:36

provided one hundred and twenty six million

23:38

dollars for multiple sclerosis one

23:41

hundred and twenty nine million for lupus and

23:43

over three billion dollars for hiv

23:45

aids the to be illnesses

23:48

affects fewer americans that

23:50

amy cfs use vicky

23:52

with a more from the nih again she

23:54

manages the grant portfolio for mvc

23:56

of s

23:58

the barriers to increase

23:59

the amount of money is really

24:02

the many demands that

24:04

each institute at nih have

24:07

have you think about that

24:09

hundreds of neurological diseases

24:11

any cfs is just one of those

24:13

diseases

24:14

a very com

24:15

for you

24:17

the so it's really been a challenge

24:20

to encourage and identified researchers

24:23

to come into the field it's

24:25

also

24:26

really

24:27

one thing at times to

24:29

work with the pace community

24:32

who

24:33

rightly so once more funding

24:35

more research

24:36

the move faster

24:38

but there has been an effort to increase research

24:40

into the disease until twenty fifteen

24:43

the funding level for emmy cfs at

24:45

the in a h was only six

24:47

to eight million dollars per year there

24:49

is

24:50

really an outcry from the community

24:52

that at i it was not doing enough

24:54

doctor collins who is the at age

24:56

director ah the

24:59

institute directors what are

25:01

we doing for research on any

25:03

cfs and

25:05

that led to conversations that

25:07

indicated that we really needed to

25:09

up our game both for funding

25:11

of research outside of then i age

25:14

and initiating initiating

25:16

out of that effort came and in how

25:18

study of amy cfs they

25:20

did extensive testing of twenty individuals

25:23

with the disease to look at their metabolism

25:25

genetics and cardiovascular function

25:28

with the hope of finding an underlying cause

25:31

the sample size of twenty is small but

25:34

the nhl very strict criteria

25:36

for enrollment winston we

25:38

spoke to earlier took part in that study

25:41

i remember for some of these procedures being

25:43

so depleted that i couldn't even respond

25:46

to the attendant who is helping me

25:48

there were just hours and hours of tests they

25:51

want to see what happens as you become more

25:53

for t how did impacts

25:55

you are performance but it definitely

25:58

took it out of me as a patient then

26:00

starting a twenty seventeen the in

26:02

age began funding three research centers

26:04

dedicated to studying emmy cfs

26:07

the hope is that these centers will bring

26:09

in researchers from different disciplines to

26:12

tackle the underlying mechanisms of

26:14

the disease however this

26:16

still a feeling that emmy cfs

26:18

is under funded a group of outside

26:20

researchers found that emmy cfs

26:23

has the lowest amount of funding relative

26:25

to disease burden of any disease

26:28

funded by the nih when they work

26:30

was published amy cfs received

26:33

fifteen million dollars annually from

26:35

the in age but based on their

26:37

calculations it should have been receiving

26:40

over two hundred million dollars in annual

26:42

funding

26:43

you may have a disease that

26:45

there's a huge disease

26:48

burden

26:49

that if there's not a research community

26:51

out there and i it doesn't

26:53

designate a certain dollar amount

26:56

that they're going to put forth that

26:58

disease

26:59

we don't hit one disease

27:01

against another because they're all

27:04

that a stating and all need support

27:08

ronald davis' issue with an age

27:10

finding stems from a specific

27:12

requirements that the nih has for

27:14

large square proposals preliminary

27:17

data you ever go to grad if you don't

27:19

have a lot of one hundred data it's almost

27:21

like you have to have at ninety five

27:24

percent done and then you're right to grant it's

27:26

, chicken and egg problem really to get

27:28

funding researchers need preliminary

27:30

data data they need preliminary

27:33

data to get to ronald

27:35

think that's difficult in a field where so

27:37

little is understood smaller

27:39

grants that support exploratory research

27:42

do exist but they're much less money

27:44

than the grants ronald typically applies for

27:50

while amy cfs researchers are scrambling

27:52

for money congress provided one

27:54

point one five billion dollars in in

27:57

a h funding for research into

27:59

long cove in theory this

28:01

could be a huge boon for emmy cfs

28:04

since the to illnesses look so much

28:06

alike and symptoms in biological

28:08

underpinnings the ronald

28:10

has some doubts well i am actually

28:12

concerned that the people setting long covered

28:15

are focusing on it as a new disease

28:17

and are paying attention the msf us

28:19

work at all because you see

28:21

people reinventing the wheel and

28:23

also making the same mistakes dr

28:25

tony comrades

28:27

i do have some concern that

28:30

the early research on long poses

28:33

the know the as directed

28:35

by the lessons learned from amy css

28:38

as it should be i hope i'm wrong

28:40

tony is referring to a recently published

28:43

in a steady on long covert

28:45

the study researchers did extensive

28:47

lab testing on people who had covered

28:50

in twenty twenty some of those people

28:52

went on to develop long cove and

28:54

others did the compare

28:56

the results between those two groups and

28:58

found no significant differences for

29:01

those results were disappointing in terms of

29:03

offering insights into long cove tony

29:06

was further disappointed that the tests

29:08

in the city we're not ones that are

29:10

known to detect abnormalities in

29:13

people with amy cfs

29:15

was as if they had started

29:17

in twenty twenty and said well as just

29:19

think on our own of what tests might

29:21

be informative and as it turned

29:24

out those tests were it

29:26

newer cities have long covert have used

29:28

the test that can uncover abnormal biomarkers

29:31

in a me see if is patience and unsurprisingly

29:34

they're abnormal for long clobbered patients

29:36

to all

29:39

that said there is hope that long

29:41

cove it will bring attention and understanding

29:44

to a group of people that assault ignored

29:46

by the medical community for a long time

29:49

here swinson again swinson do have hope

29:51

i don't know how logical it is that's

29:54

the global pandemic global pandemic occurrence

29:56

of long covered and the heightened

29:59

awareness of earl conditions

30:01

brings us all hope that this diseases

30:04

and so stigmatized in the ass will

30:06

, to move more more towards the mainstream

30:09

mainstream some answers may be on horizon

30:12

in a few months researchers at the nih

30:14

should be publishing the results from their

30:16

in house study on amy cfs

30:19

which winston participated in and

30:22

on that note that truly special thanks

30:24

to winston for sharing his story and

30:27

thanks to dr tony comrade sector vicky

30:29

widow more a doctor ronald davis

30:32

next week on freakonomics md we're

30:34

gonna revisit the question of if

30:36

and when my dad or any

30:38

of us should retire identities

30:41

are very much wrapped up in our careers our

30:43

identities and our brains so

30:46

what happens to our brains to our cognitive

30:49

health when we decide to stop

30:51

work there is a risk

30:53

associated with this fisher modern

30:55

day life when we retire

30:57

until retirement or talk about

31:00

this risk whether it out ways other

31:02

benefits of retiring and how

31:04

we might keep our minds simulated as

31:06

we get older it really matters

31:08

what you're doing in your job but

31:10

also it matters what you're doing once

31:13

he retire would try to answer

31:15

these questions along with one more did

31:17

my dad only retire sets

31:19

all coming up next week on freakonomics

31:22

md

31:24

the economics m v is part of

31:26

the freakonomics radio network which

31:28

also includes for economics media

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32:02

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32:27

gotta tell ya i

32:29

think any to switch careers this careers this

32:32

fascinating

32:39

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