0:07

hello and welcome to this emergency

0:09

edition of the 538 politics podcast

0:11

i'm dealing through friday

0:14

morning the supreme court, released an opinion

0:16

in the dobbs abortion case overturning

0:19

roe v wade court ruled

0:21

that there is no constitutional right

0:23

to an abortion counter to the precedent

0:26

for the past forty nine years the

0:28

decision was six three in favor

0:30

of mississippi with five of

0:32

the conservatives voting to overturn

0:34

roe chief justice john roberts

0:37

argued in concurring opinion that

0:39

the court could have sided with the mississippi

0:41

in banning abortion after fifteen weeks

0:43

of pregnancy without overturning

0:45

roe altogether yeah to

0:47

samuel alito authored the majority

0:49

opinion as was case with a

0:51

week draft in may the

0:53

three liberals on the court issued a rare

0:56

three justice authored decide

0:58

going out weeks and months

1:00

to unpack the political fallout and

1:02

on ground effects of this but let's begin

1:04

with the legal arguments and

1:06

hear me to do that is five three a senior

1:08

writer and legal reporter amelia

1:10

thompson devout rotten the podcast

1:12

amelia yeah hey

1:14

so what are the nuts

1:17

and bolts of this decision should

1:19

we call it a five for decision

1:21

or a sixty three decision

1:24

and what was the reasoning on

1:26

behalf of the majority

1:27

yeah it's funny i've already seen different outlets

1:30

reporting this the six three decision

1:32

and five for decision and you

1:34

know in a sense it's really both so

1:37

six of the justices including

1:39

justice john roberts sad

1:41

that mississippi is fifteen

1:43

week abortion ban is constitutional

1:46

they agreed on that what

1:49

john roberts did not agree

1:51

on was that

1:53

the court needed to take the next step

1:56

and overturn roe

1:58

versus wade his the you roberts

2:01

is view which we can talk more about in

2:03

little bit with basically that the court

2:05

doesn't have to do the most

2:07

extreme being that ball

2:11

and in fact you know under the principal

2:13

a judicial restraint shouldn't

2:15

and that there was a way to uphold the mississippi

2:17

law without actually getting

2:20

rid of a forty nine year precedents

2:22

alito and the other for conservatives

2:25

clearly did not agree it's arm

2:27

and alito rode along opinion

2:30

that basically arguing that the

2:32

constitutional right to abortion has

2:34

never existed abortion

2:36

is not protected under the constitution

2:39

and so row and

2:42

the ruling that came after it

2:44

casey vs planned parenthood were

2:47

completely wrong and so

2:49

that there is it really an obligation

2:52

you know you feel the sort of sense of obligation

2:54

in the ruling to correct

2:57

this wrong and to overturn roe

2:59

that's the outcome of this opinion

3:02

ravi wade is overturned and

3:04

majority opinion is that was wrong we decided

3:06

in the first place however

3:09

the conservative justices even

3:11

beyond roberts disagree

3:13

over what exactly this means

3:15

of course cavanaugh and honest the

3:17

author wrote concurring opinion

3:20

that interpreted what overturning

3:22

roe v wade means

3:24

in different ways so where the

3:26

cleavages amongst conservatives that does

3:30

kavanagh in his concurring opinion

3:32

which is just from him so this is just representing

3:35

his viewpoint articulating

3:37

some of the things that he said during the oral

3:39

argument last december which

3:41

is basically this idea that like the

3:44

constitution is neutral constitution abortion

3:47

which means that doesn't protect

3:49

abortion but there

3:51

is also not as constitutional

3:53

obligation to outlaw abortions

3:55

and that really the mistake

3:58

was the courts get the

4:00

into their at all that this

4:02

is an issue that the constitution does has

4:04

nothing to say about and therefore

4:06

states should be able to work

4:08

this out but he was sort

4:11

of clearly trying to say

4:15

we're not making abortion illegal everywhere

4:17

like he says that in so many words and the opinion

4:20

and he's making it clear that he

4:22

at least does not saying

4:25

that the constitution

4:28

outlaws abortion which is

4:30

you know a question i'm that

4:32

i think people were expecting

4:34

to potentially come back to the supreme

4:36

court at some point given

4:39

the speed with which this

4:41

court overturned row i

4:43

mean there isn't a conservative the

4:45

already on the court for

4:47

a while there's been a highly

4:49

conservative majority on core it and

4:51

twenty a t and were now

4:53

i'm justice anthony kennedy retired

4:56

but they haven't had the conservative supermajority

4:58

for very long less than two years

5:01

and row is already gone so

5:03

i think there will be a lot of questions

5:05

about what i'm host foes

5:08

in the field abortion and

5:10

other liberal precedence and carbonized

5:12

clearly trying to sort of put some boundaries

5:15

on that and say that see

5:17

least doesn't see this

5:19

stretching really far basically

5:22

into liberals worst nightmares

5:24

there and that sort of putting the cabal

5:26

on this idea of you

5:28

know personhood at least for now that

5:30

peters is protected under the constitution

5:33

as person and perhaps has the same right

5:36

and i think some people were thinking that was

5:38

the next avenues that

5:40

anti abortion activists

5:42

and lawmakers might pursue i

5:44

mean

5:45

their language to that effect already

5:48

in some anti abortion statute

5:50

so you know whatever

5:52

cavanaugh wants this

5:54

is an issue that is going to be

5:56

challenged and litigated i

5:59

do thing haven't

6:01

i was sort of trying to take pains

6:03

to say we are just overturning

6:05

roe we are not making a statement

6:08

on these sort of many

6:10

consequences that every one

6:12

think is aware will com

6:15

if states are allowed to be an abortion and

6:18

he it appears

6:20

does not at least is not what is signal

6:22

at this moment he

6:25

wants to go further you

6:27

know and i think it's kind of

6:29

dangerous to predict where this court

6:31

is going to go because if you

6:33

had asked me for years ago if i

6:35

would be on a podcast in twenty

6:38

twenty two talking about role being

6:40

overturned i ,

6:42

think wouldn't i would not have taken a bet that

6:44

that would happen but

6:47

i'm

6:48

yeah we all kind of assumed they would take the

6:50

roberts approach and survey low role

6:52

this hollywood out

6:54

you know we can talk about what roberts wanted

6:56

but he basically wanted to sort

6:58

of do this more slowly to

7:01

let more abortion bans

7:03

come in he wanted to get rid

7:05

of a fundamental part of

7:07

the casey ruling which came after

7:09

row which would make it much easier for

7:11

states to stay on abortion

7:13

earlier in pregnancy but wasn't gonna get rid

7:15

of row entirely so here we are

7:18

lot of gonna depend gonna what state lawmakers

7:20

do and the kinds of legal challenges

7:22

that are brought but the message

7:25

of cabinets concurrence cabinets think

7:28

is he's trying to sort of say

7:30

you know we're really handing this back to the

7:32

people like we are he

7:34

sort of trying to

7:36

almost like diminish the courts responsibility

7:40

in all of this i mean obviously the court

7:42

is is playing huge role in everyone knows

7:44

that that he sort saying you know really

7:46

this isn't are issue to decide and so

7:49

we are giving it back to the people

7:51

who need to be decided

7:53

the other end of the spectrum

7:55

from cavanaugh or roberts

7:58

is justice clarence thomas he

8:00

wrote in his concurring opinion

8:02

quotes in future cases we should

8:04

reconsider all of this court substantive

8:07

due process precedents including

8:09

griswold lawrence and burger found

8:12

there's address in that order

8:14

contraception same sex sex

8:16

and same sex marriage that

8:19

but we've held why

8:21

be on corner beyond thomas

8:23

himself i think he only authored his

8:26

concurring opinion alone

8:28

these are any indication that are other justices

8:30

that view the world similarly there

8:33

isn't right now i mean thomas

8:36

wrote that opinion alone as you suggest

8:38

said and in his majority

8:40

opinion alito actually

8:43

it wasn't li says we're not

8:45

calling other precedence

8:48

that came out of a similar line of reasoning

8:50

as row into question

8:53

because at stake in row

8:56

is something different it's the state's

8:58

interest in potential human life

9:00

which has a different legal weight

9:03

and so nothing were doing

9:05

were doing is unsettling

9:07

as you know of those seminal

9:09

ruling that gave americans

9:12

have right to contraception and

9:14

the rulings you mention that has to do with him sex

9:16

acts and same sex marriage so alito

9:18

says that explicitly and then thomas

9:20

in his concurring opinion is like yeah

9:23

ah though i agree

9:25

that this rule if not calling into

9:27

question though it's president but

9:30

guys we really need to reconsider those precedent

9:32

because they seem read on

9:35

pretty faulty assumptions and

9:37

you know it's interesting because like thomas

9:39

has been in this position for years

9:41

and years and years where he

9:44

will say he will write these descents

9:46

where he's proposing incredibly extreme

9:48

things and so you know on

9:50

one hand you write book

9:52

this near like okay this is thomas very

9:55

conservative he has idiosyncratic

9:57

views as he's not speaking for the

9:59

other that is no one else signed

10:01

onto his opinion me other

10:03

hand hobson

10:05

alito not to

10:08

you know not find past were

10:11

standing up his position way on

10:13

the right of the court where they were complaining

10:16

about how the other conservative justices weren't

10:18

moving fast enough and were dissenting

10:21

when justice anthony kennedy would switch over to

10:23

the liberals and now

10:25

we're in situation where alito

10:27

just wrote a majority opinion overturning

10:30

roe and yesterday thomas

10:32

wrote the majority opinion in a really

10:34

big case expanding the reach

10:37

of the second amendment and the right to bear arms

10:39

so while

10:41

i do think you know people who free

10:43

that thomas opinion of freak out and

10:45

said the court is coming for a burger thousand

10:47

coming for birth control tomorrow

10:50

like i think that's an overreaction i

10:52

kind of wouldn't downplay anything

10:55

that thomas says right now because

10:57

clearly this idea this in the air

10:59

and it's something that thomas cares enough about

11:01

to have written this opinion and

11:04

he is in position a position

11:06

court said he didn't used to be in

11:08

his much more influential than he used to be

11:10

and so oh you know i don't think this is

11:12

gonna happen the marrow the

11:15

next year i'm there isn't

11:17

evidence that the other conservatives they're like you

11:19

know yeah let's really let's go get all

11:21

of these other precedence we think they're

11:23

wrong but that doesn't mean

11:25

that we won't be in the situation the

11:28

not too distant future where where

11:30

where talking about potential challenges

11:33

though

11:34

so that is where the conservatives

11:37

set of course the liberals

11:39

that's agreed disagreed vehemently

11:42

ultimately their dissent has little bearing

11:44

on the law the land but what did

11:46

they have to say the

11:48

authored their dissenting opinion

11:50

together which is pretty rare

11:52

and it shows the depth

11:55

of their concern and anger

11:57

about this opinion ultimately there

11:59

only three them there in serious minority

12:02

by their descent was

12:04

basically saying this is

12:06

a huge deal this is the removal

12:08

of fundamental right as

12:10

they see it and said it's gonna

12:12

have really serious consequences are

12:14

there is one quote from the beginning of

12:16

defensive stands out they said

12:19

the decision says that from the

12:21

very moment of fertilization a woman

12:23

has no right to speak of state

12:25

and force her to bring a pregnancy to term

12:27

even at the steepest personal and familial

12:30

costs oh

12:32

that's very extreme language that

12:34

is saying essentially that the supreme

12:36

court is allowing states

12:39

to force women to bear children so

12:42

that's where their ass

12:44

com that's the state the supreme court

12:46

right now and you know even

12:48

in a leaders majority opinion like clearly

12:51

the justices are very upset with each

12:53

other and he spent a lot of the

12:55

majority opinion sort of going

12:57

after arguments that were made and that

12:59

sad as we saw something similar

13:01

in yesterday's guns ruling said this

13:03

is that a deeply deeply divided court

13:06

right so those are

13:08

the

13:09

they bring legal opinions on the court and

13:11

in today's ruling now

13:14

let's talk about how this changes things on

13:16

the ground so what is the situation

13:18

from legal abortion and america starting

13:20

today it's

13:22

fluid hum so

13:24

i just want to caviar that as we

13:26

are recording this it is literally

13:28

changing so this is

13:30

the situation then

13:32

i'm as as now around top

13:34

forty five

13:35

he could be different minute honey with them so

13:37

basically thirteen states we're

13:39

ready for this to happen they have laws

13:41

that are called trigger laws that are

13:43

triggered if roe versus wade is

13:45

overturned an abortion is

13:48

all the completely banned in those states

13:51

the mechanism of the trigger

13:53

is a little bit different in

13:55

in some of the seats so

13:57

it hasn't gone into effect in all

13:59

of that by three states automatic

14:02

and south dakota kentucky and louisiana

14:04

so abortion was illegal in

14:06

those states that minute roles are reversed

14:08

and state lawmakers taken the steps they

14:10

need to take to make abortion

14:13

illegal in oklahoma and missouri

14:15

there will be more states

14:18

that will the an abortion

14:20

in the coming days it's

14:23

wyoming utah north dakota

14:26

arkansas and mississippi i'm just

14:28

to be completed and there

14:30

are three more states who were

14:32

the trigger goes into effect after

14:34

thirty days tennessee

14:36

and either house so it'll be a little

14:38

longer for them although worth

14:40

noting that

14:41

texas has a six week abortion

14:43

ban on the books already so

14:45

am

14:46

you know it's not like abortion is

14:48

completely legal there right now

14:50

anyway that of the state right now

14:53

i should add that i suspect

14:55

there are couple more states that will move

14:57

to be an abortion pretty quickly indiana

15:00

is seat with a lot of abortion restrictions

15:02

and their legislature is coming back into session

15:05

for different reason on july six

15:08

i would not be surprised if an abortion ban comes

15:10

out of that session and then nebraska

15:12

as governor said that he would bring

15:15

you try to bring the legislature back into session

15:17

to pass an abortion fan for a were overturned

15:20

so those states i think could

15:22

quickly be added to tallies farm

15:24

and then there some other states

15:26

including alabama that have

15:28

abortion bans that were past you

15:31

know it somewhat recently that have

15:33

been tied in the courts because they violated row

15:36

those are presumably going to go

15:38

into effect

15:41

all told i think the conventional wisdom was that

15:43

if roe v wade is overturned abortion would

15:45

be banned in half the country's

15:47

is that about correct when

15:49

it comes to the numbers well

15:52

so it depends a little bit on

15:54

what you mean by band so

15:57

abortion will be completely

15:59

banned and he in thou

16:01

sixteen state i would

16:03

gas within the next month or

16:05

two several other states has

16:07

six week abortion bans that are going to

16:09

going into effect and then other

16:11

states have these pre roll bands

16:14

you could add them to my list of sixteen

16:17

states which

16:17

there five of them so it it would bring that the

16:19

number two to around twenty

16:22

and don't you really interesting because those

16:24

are examples of states that had

16:26

the older bans on abortion

16:28

some of them are really old from like the nineteenth

16:30

century that they just never repealed

16:33

after row they didn't try to enforce them so

16:35

the law was just hanging out it wasn't doing anything

16:38

on and now in theory those could be in forests

16:40

and it michigan's governor

16:43

has actually been trying to

16:45

prevent them miss again pre

16:47

well abortion ban from going into

16:49

effect and it temporarily held up

16:51

in the courts so i don't know

16:54

you know to what extent will see and of other

16:56

fighting over those laws

16:58

but it's just a little bit complicated

17:00

because it's not like those were laws that were

17:02

passed recently and

17:05

know state lawmakers may not be entirely

17:07

on the same page about whether they want

17:09

keep physically

17:12

he'd hate and even if

17:14

the night he didn't he

17:16

he ha

17:18

if it can make abortion ban earlier this

17:20

year there's some questions about whether that violate

17:22

the states constitution but except go

17:24

into effect in to lie

17:27

and you know will have to see what

17:29

other states do arm

17:31

i think certainly we could see

17:33

half the states banning

17:35

abortion at abortion at earlier

17:37

then they were allowed to under

17:39

row but not all of those

17:41

will be total abortion bans at least

17:43

not media

17:45

and will also over coming months see

17:48

it in republican controlled states like

17:50

florida us that fifteen week

17:52

abortion ban stands and

17:55

if lawmakers or activists in the

17:57

states one a bandit earlier i know

17:59

looking at public the and that in florida that

18:01

wouldn't be super popular but i

18:03

think it's still an open question for republicans

18:06

and also please like arizona in oakland

18:08

young can in virginia has suggested

18:10

that he'd be bringing forth as fifteen week abortion

18:12

ban so this will be also become

18:14

an intra party fight for republicans

18:17

in the coming

18:18

totally and i think it's gonna be really interesting

18:20

because i'm if you look at the polling

18:23

something like fifteen week a horse and man

18:25

is much more popular than

18:28

a total abortion ban mean

18:30

some of the the was many

18:32

of bands that are going into effect

18:34

right now have almost no

18:37

exceptions they don't even have exceptions

18:39

for rape and incest and that's really

18:41

unpopular there are very

18:43

very few americans are between

18:46

ten and fifteen percent that one

18:48

abortion to be banned in all cases but

18:50

that's really where some states are moving

18:53

but i think there has been some

18:55

hesitation among republican lawmakers

18:58

in some states like more purple states

19:00

to go all the way we saw

19:03

that with florida and arizona

19:05

both passing fifteen week abortion bans

19:07

earlier this year when you

19:09

know other states were passing six week abortion

19:11

bans like the one went into effect into texas

19:14

left the on it seemed like you

19:16

know we could be seeing wave of texas copycat

19:18

laws instead we saw some has

19:20

a copycat laws but authors some fifteen

19:22

abortion ban and so i do

19:24

think there will be kind of a push and pull between

19:27

the sense that of have seen week

19:29

abortion ban might be more palatable

19:32

to a broader range

19:34

of voters and the

19:36

demands of you know the people people

19:38

within the party who who really don't

19:40

want a fifteen we could worsen the and they just want

19:42

abortion to be banned and they they will

19:44

wants legislators to move that direction

19:47

yeah we started talking about about public

19:50

opinion here and the

19:52

you know or weed out aims

19:54

to right joe public opinion shouldn't

19:56

have bearing on court we shouldn't

19:58

be worried about the political fall the of our

20:00

decisions of course

20:02

the almost out of the supreme court that

20:05

will all matter for politics

20:07

for dinner what was actually end

20:09

up getting past we have

20:11

talked almost the nausea on this podcast

20:13

about how polling on abortion is

20:15

complicated because people answer the questions

20:18

differently depending on how you ask them depending on

20:20

whether you bring up row the

20:22

president or whether you just ask about

20:24

ask number of week what can we

20:26

say about how

20:28

this opinion compares

20:30

to public opinion

20:33

well a most americans

20:35

majority of americans have consistently said

20:37

they do want the court to overturn roe

20:39

versus wade you know it's not the overwhelming

20:41

majority it's you know that around

20:44

sixty sixty five percent so

20:47

in that sense this is not popular movie i

20:49

will add that i don't think most

20:51

americans know what road did

20:53

i see that question as

20:56

more about do you want to keep the status

20:58

quo on abortion which

21:00

again the supreme court is changing so

21:03

you know that it there it there definitely

21:06

be fall out by it is complicated

21:08

because know that the states that are

21:10

implementing ban are more

21:12

conservative state so

21:15

there you know if there is the possibility

21:17

that there's just there actually is more appetite

21:20

among those voters i'm to

21:22

have more restrictive abortion and

21:25

when you ask americans about something like

21:27

fifteen week abortion ban it

21:29

is more popular am

21:32

and i mean i put an asterisk on that

21:34

because as you were saying like

21:37

americans should do not know much about abortion

21:39

and their responses to pull questions are

21:41

often contradictory hi

21:44

you know i do think that this

21:47

has potential to spark a kind

21:49

of backlash that we would

21:51

not have seen from

21:53

the ruling that roberts wanted where they

21:55

just have upheld the fifteen week fan

21:57

but didn't go further simply

22:00

because the laws that are being

22:02

passed in states already

22:04

in response roll being overturned are

22:06

so extreme and real

22:09

the outside mainstream of what people

22:11

want

22:12

yeah i mean looking at some of the polling

22:14

from gallup to ask about

22:16

specific try masters and so you know sixty

22:18

percent americans say that they think

22:20

abortion should be mostly legal in the first trimester

22:23

twenty eight percent in the second trimester

22:25

and only thirteen percent in

22:27

third trimester of course americans

22:29

also a majority them said that they wanted

22:32

to uphold roe v wade roe

22:34

v wade protected abortion until

22:36

fetal viability essentially or with the case

22:38

the out on our until feet liability

22:40

which is beyond first trimester so

22:42

on one hand they were maybe saying

22:45

they want abortion to be more restricted than

22:47

it had been and so would like

22:49

in technical way be in support of overturning

22:51

roe v way but yeah and practical sense

22:53

of do you want to overturn are not the answer

22:55

was no at this point

22:57

like do those distinctions

22:59

matter or does this sort of trigger

23:02

backlash just you

23:04

know almost in a symbolic way yeah

23:07

i mean this

23:09

is one of the only rulings that

23:11

most americans know huge

23:14

symbolic move to overturn

23:17

roe and so

23:19

you know i think this is going to provoke

23:22

a response that we

23:24

don't normally see to supreme court

23:26

opinions and it's

23:28

especially going to provoke a response because

23:31

the ruling doesn't end

23:33

it really does begin them now

23:36

because now states have to respond

23:38

were going to see what happens there's gonna

23:40

continue to be news coverage and

23:43

so you know i think

23:45

played the weight of what's happening

23:48

we'll have a

23:50

big impact the

23:52

question is is what that impact is

23:54

and what it drives people to do there

23:57

have been questioned about whether it will

23:59

motivate democrat the

24:01

vote in mid terms whether it will shake

24:03

up some of the big midterm races there

24:06

some differences of opinion on the five thirty

24:08

eight staff about how

24:10

likely this likely this be a really big game

24:12

changer in the midterms i

24:15

really think we have to see what happens because

24:17

this is an issue that americans

24:19

have tried really

24:21

when you talk to sort of most people

24:23

without the fittest don't like thinking about this issue

24:26

and that's why the polling is so confusing

24:28

the don't know that much about abortion is

24:30

sort of wanted to be available in a general

24:32

sense but when you ask them specific questions

24:34

will say contradictory things now

24:37

this opinion is this ruling has

24:39

really can it as we

24:41

force people to think about abortion in a

24:43

way that they have an arm

24:46

for some people may be in their entire lives

24:48

and i just don't know what that

24:50

is gonna bring us and i

24:52

think will also just depend on how

24:54

far these bans stretch

24:57

you know there's been some some

24:59

discussion about how the

25:01

way that a pregnancy as defined

25:03

in some of bands could have location

25:05

for forms birth control like i you d is

25:08

it could have implications for

25:10

am cody treatments and

25:12

so is there are some

25:15

of those in okay that ripple effect

25:17

into things that people don't

25:20

associate with abortion and or less controversial

25:22

then again think there's more potential

25:24

for anger but

25:27

again there there are of other things going on the country

25:29

people are really worried about the economic situation

25:32

and the forces of partisanship

25:34

are are pretty strong we talk about that

25:36

a little bit on the podcast so am

25:38

i think it's really an open question at

25:41

this point how americans will respond

25:44

yeah and we were gonna talking about

25:46

the

25:47

political lot from this going forward

25:49

we're going to chat again on monday when we normally

25:51

record our podcast before

25:54

i want you go the supreme court also ruled

25:56

six three yesterday on

25:59

thursday striking down a new

26:01

york state law that was pretty restrictive

26:03

on terms of getting people to carry

26:05

handguns in public especially

26:07

if you wanted to prove that they had specific

26:09

need from handgun above

26:12

the general public's concern we

26:14

at the end of supreme

26:16

court times generally average

26:18

it all the data and water sort

26:21

of how were the court is ideologically

26:24

liberal or conservative it may be and

26:27

usually we taught at the end of the term to

26:29

assess how quickly court moving

26:32

hasn't moved to the left a little better

26:34

to the right little bit i know

26:36

that given all of the news

26:38

you have not had time to compile that data

26:42

right

26:43

okay earners don't budget cases they haven't

26:45

decided yet there's a big school prayer they're

26:48

the big case about the heap yea like

26:50

they really i really was expecting that opinion

26:52

come on the last day the term so they are

26:54

you know they save so that they still have business

26:57

the rb on as a dead catch me off

26:59

guard i'm what friday

27:01

by can we started

27:03

say at this point the general

27:06

direction of the court even if

27:08

we can't sort of paint fall

27:10

quantitative picture we usually do

27:12

mean this is an incredibly

27:15

historically conservative court

27:17

the that with confidence

27:20

and i think you know we

27:22

can talk more about this am when supreme

27:24

court's term is done and we do have those numbers

27:27

but i think we're increasingly

27:29

moving into territory where the metrics that

27:31

we used to evaluate how conservative

27:33

the court is are not capturing

27:36

is how far did the right it's moving

27:38

it's because they just look at how

27:41

through people vote on the court vote relative

27:43

to each other but they're not looking

27:45

at sort of how conservative the cases are

27:47

that coming to the courts or how

27:50

the court is diverging

27:52

from public opinion for example never

27:54

that really smart study that

27:56

came out recently by

27:59

some political i have had that

28:01

showed basically how court has

28:03

become more conservative

28:05

relative to public opinion since

28:07

justice coney barrett joined

28:10

and i thought that was really smart

28:12

way to look at this because

28:15

it does seem like there's been kind

28:17

of discontinuity and

28:19

the court is moving really fast

28:21

i mean this is the thing like that

28:24

john roberts is a very very

28:26

conservative justice very

28:28

conservative person and so the fact that

28:30

he's looking at what just happened in thing i

28:33

think we should go slower is

28:35

sign of just how fast as court is moving

28:38

and so all that is really kind of

28:40

hard kit to capture in the data that

28:42

were used to looking at because the supreme court doesn't

28:44

usually move at this speed

28:47

and so you know yeah the

28:49

court it's very conservative we will have

28:51

more information but

28:54

i think one of my they take away from

28:56

the brewing today was just

28:58

sit in other since this since this longer

29:00

john roberts course this is

29:02

the ruling that will define probably

29:05

well mean who knows what's gonna happen but this

29:07

is it a ruling that that would be one of the defining

29:09

opinions of his tenure and he

29:12

did not think it should happened the way

29:14

it did and that

29:16

is is a big statement about how conservative

29:18

his colleagues are and where

29:20

there taking the court alright, well

29:22

let's leave things and take it

29:24

back up on monday but for

29:26

now thank you you so so much thanks

29:28

galen name is galen group, tony

29:31

chow is is in the the virtual control room chadwick

29:33

matlin is our editorial director and emily

29:35

venesky is our our concern you can get get in touch

29:37

by emailing us at podcast at 5:38

29:39

you can can also call us with

29:41

any any questions or comments if youre you're

29:43

fan of up the show, leave us us or a rating or review

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29:48

tell someone about us, thanks for for listening

29:50

and and we will see you us soon

30:00

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