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1:01

Hello everyone and welcome to Slash Film Daily. Today is

1:03

Thursday, May 2nd, 2024. On

1:06

today's episode of the show, we're going to be

1:08

talking about Michael Showalter's new romantic comedy, The Idea

1:10

of You and we're going to present an interview

1:12

with Michael Showalter. My name is

1:14

Ben Pearson. I am an editor at slashfilm.com and I'm

1:16

joined on today's episode by Slash Film Editor, Brad Ohman.

1:19

Hey, that's me. Alright Brad, let's get into this.

1:21

Actually, before we start, I just wanted to mention

1:23

for everybody that we're recording this a little bit

1:25

in advance. So just in case, I don't know,

1:28

I always like people to know that we're doing

1:30

that for scheduling reasons. So let's get into it.

1:32

What was your general reaction to The Idea of

1:34

You? So let

1:36

me first talk about the fact that when

1:38

I first saw the trailer for this movie,

1:41

I was not impressed and that's coming

1:44

from somebody who likes the

1:46

work of Michael Showalter, whether

1:48

it's his, you know,

1:50

more comedic work like what Hot American Summer

1:52

or they came together, stuff

1:55

with the states and whatnot, or

1:57

his more recent films like The

1:59

Big Star. or the eyes of Tanny Faye

2:01

and whatnot. And when I

2:03

saw this trailer, it just kind of felt like a very conventional,

2:07

even somewhat

2:09

cheesy romance that I wasn't expecting

2:11

from somebody like Michael

2:13

Showalter. And so I was kind of

2:15

lukewarm on it, but then

2:18

I decided to give it a shot after

2:20

the reaction from South by Southwest seemed to

2:22

be pretty positive. And

2:24

I watched it and I came away

2:26

actually really liking and respecting this movie

2:28

because it is much

2:30

more of a pure romance than

2:33

really a romantic comedy. There are some

2:36

amusing moments of levity and funny things

2:38

that happen, but it's not like a romantic comedy in the

2:40

way that like even the big

2:42

sick was, or like forgetting Sarah Marshall or something like

2:44

that. It is very much squarely

2:46

focused on the romance and more

2:48

dramatic side of the relationship that

2:50

blossoms between Anne Hathaway and

2:53

Nicholas Galitzin's character. And I was

2:56

honestly caught off guard by

2:58

how disarmingly charming the movie

3:00

is, largely because Anne Hathaway

3:03

is just fantastic in the role. And

3:05

the way it digs into the story

3:07

and makes it feel personal, you

3:10

could easily see this as like kind of like a

3:12

gender swapped age gap version

3:15

of Notting Hill, but there's

3:17

something about it that feels stripped down and

3:19

more intimate. And I think that's largely because

3:21

it does focus on the more

3:24

the romance and drama, as opposed to leaning

3:26

into the comedy and creating

3:28

these amusing situations. It

3:30

really gives you rich

3:33

three dimensional characters that

3:35

feel like they have chemistry. And on

3:37

top of that, there's something that like, I was surprised

3:39

by how sexy this movie was too. It's been a

3:41

while since I've seen a romance like

3:43

this where there was enough chemistry

3:45

between the leads where the

3:48

intimacy between them actually felt like it had

3:50

like a sizzle factor to it.

3:52

I just recently watched Anyone But You. And

3:54

I was kind of like, oh really? This

3:57

is it? Cause like you have like two of the hottest people on the

3:59

planet right now. And it didn't feel

4:01

like they had really any chemistry and even when

4:03

they had like their scenes of like,

4:05

you know Hooking everyone out. I was like, oh,

4:07

okay. That's that's fine. I guess but

4:10

but the scenes between Anne Hathaway and Nicholas Glitzen here

4:12

like the the tension

4:15

between them the romantic tension the sexual

4:17

tension is palpable and like you

4:19

really kind of like feel something when when

4:21

they actually Get together and like feel comfortable

4:23

enough to like become intimate with each other.

4:25

So Yeah, it's I

4:28

really like how it digs into the the age

4:30

gap stuff it feels like there's some aspects of

4:32

this that are pretty personal to Anne

4:34

Hathaway to because how it approaches like Fame

4:37

and having kind of like a romance in the limelight

4:39

and things like that. And so so yeah, I actually

4:41

really like this movie a lot Yeah, I enjoyed it

4:43

a lot to Picking backing

4:45

off of the Anne Hathaway stuff there There

4:48

are definitely some comments in there where characters

4:50

will say things like, you know The internet

4:52

is treating you terribly because you're a woman

4:55

You know that kind of thing like those kinds

4:57

of conversations that pop up here that that

5:00

reminded me very much of how the internet

5:02

was treating Anne Hathaway You know

5:04

her specifically as an actress obviously the

5:06

internet always treats women terribly That's that's

5:08

unfortunately, you know been pretty much a

5:10

through line since the beginning of the

5:12

internet but her specifically, you

5:14

know, she had that period there after she won

5:16

the Oscar for lame is where like It

5:19

seems like everyone collectively turned on and

5:21

halfway for a while and then now

5:23

she sort of seems like she's back

5:25

in everyone's Good graces again or whatever

5:27

but just this weird sort of pop

5:29

cultural swing, you know like sometimes stuff

5:31

happens where people just Latch

5:34

on to an idea like that and it felt like this movie

5:36

was kind of poking at that a little bit here and there

5:38

So I found that to be an

5:40

interesting component of as well I

5:43

wanted to talk to you about what you said about the the

5:45

fact that this is more Romance than

5:47

comedy and I'm curious what you thought about

5:49

that for showalter in his career because I

5:51

noticed that as well And it felt like

5:53

he didn't really have Comedy as

5:55

like a safety net almost to

5:58

fall back on in this movie in

6:00

ways that maybe he has in some of his other

6:02

films. So I was curious what you made of that.

6:05

Yeah, and you know, I think it's been just

6:08

kind of like more of a gradual thing for

6:10

him of like leaning into

6:12

stories that have a little more drama, a little less

6:14

of a straight comedic angle. Cause I actually talked to

6:16

him about this when the Eyes of Tammy Faye came

6:18

out. I asked him if this was kind of like

6:20

a conscious decision

6:23

to kind of like veer in that territory. And

6:25

he had said that it wasn't something he was

6:27

doing intentionally. That's just been like the

6:29

trend of like the stories that

6:31

have interested him. And

6:34

even in like a movie like the Eyes of Tammy Faye,

6:37

where you have two targets, you know,

6:39

Tammy Faye Baker and her husband, where

6:42

it would be easy to make fun of

6:44

them. He never like took these like easy

6:47

swipes at them as characters as if they were

6:49

like people in a Saturday Night Live sketch, you

6:51

know? You let comedy come from natural places and

6:54

kind of just like told their story without

6:56

like a judgmental light. And I

6:58

think that it just happens that more recently he's

7:00

been invested in stories that

7:02

just don't require that comedic slant

7:04

that we're used to seeing from

7:07

him, which is really been interesting to see because it just

7:09

shows, you know, how

7:11

diversity he can be as a filmmaker.

7:14

Yeah, I think another thing that I really enjoyed about this

7:16

movie that I feel like it captures really well is that

7:19

sense of wish fulfillment. And I think, you know, most rom

7:21

coms kind of deal with wish fulfillment of some

7:23

kind, but this is basically like what

7:26

if Harry Styles fell in love

7:28

with me, a regular mom kind of thing, you

7:30

know, and that specificity, I think makes it feel

7:33

like maybe a little bit more transportive and

7:35

also intimate, like you said, then like the

7:37

typical kind of rom com set up. So

7:39

that was one other thing I wanted to

7:41

shout out about. Yeah, and I think

7:43

especially because too, it's not the kind of

7:45

thing where like she is lusting after him

7:47

either. She's very hesitant and like she doesn't

7:50

really like recognize him as

7:52

like being something that she would

7:54

like even, you know, want to like go

7:56

for in that way, you know? And so I

7:58

think that that. one of the things that

8:00

probably makes it feel a little more

8:03

more charming too is it's like she's not

8:05

like this thirsty older woman who's just trying

8:07

to get her hands on you know, like

8:09

a 20 something for her own gratification. Yeah.

8:11

And all of like the sort of globe

8:13

spanning stuff like with the tour and everything

8:15

where they're just going to all these beautiful

8:17

locations and all of that I was very

8:19

like, I don't know, I just felt

8:21

like whisked away in the way that the movie wanted me to

8:23

feel watching all that stuff. So I kind of love that. What

8:27

did you think about the boy band component because

8:29

he is the leader of I think the group's

8:31

name is August Moon. It's supposed to be yeah,

8:33

like a One Direction type boy

8:36

band, I guess just like super

8:38

popular or pop group. What

8:40

did you think about how the film handled

8:42

that or sort of like, I

8:45

guess whether they pulled that off accurately in your

8:47

view? So I personally,

8:50

I don't necessarily I never really got

8:52

the sense that like it felt like he was the

8:54

leader of the band rather than just kind of like

8:56

an equal member. Like he's obviously very famous because of

8:59

this. And there have been comparisons

9:01

and like thoughts about whether or

9:03

not this is kind of inspired by Harry Styles,

9:05

you know, or not and his time with One

9:07

Direction. And so I think

9:11

for me, I, the what

9:14

I liked the most about the boy band

9:16

stuff was that the music felt real and

9:18

authentic. Like it didn't feel like stuff

9:20

that they like was just put on like a back burner

9:22

and they're like, well, we'll kind of make a boy band.

9:24

But like the music is actually good. It feels like songs

9:26

that would have come out. Today,

9:29

the band all felt like an

9:31

actual band, the Coachella stuff, I

9:33

was actually really impressed by because sometimes it's really

9:35

hard to pull off concert stuff like that and

9:38

make it feel like a real thing. But it

9:40

all kind of came together in a pretty impressive

9:42

way. Yeah, I totally agree. And I think I was reminded

9:44

a little bit of turning red, the

9:46

Pixar movie that also deals with boy bands

9:48

and how that also to my ear, anyway,

9:50

did like a pretty great job at recreating,

9:52

you know, that very, very specific pop star

9:55

sound pop group sound. I thought they did

9:57

a great job with that. The one thing

9:59

that I I thought I was

10:01

kind of laughing a little bit at the movie's

10:03

attempt was like the the choreography like the dancing

10:05

and stuff like That like if you've ever seen

10:08

I don't know pick a boy then in sync

10:11

Perform in any way or even just watch their

10:13

music videos or something like and you watch the

10:15

way that they move as a group But like

10:17

the way that their bodies just the physicality of

10:19

it You can see the you know the hundreds

10:21

of hours that boy bands like that have actually

10:24

put into the you

10:26

know, the the the discipline the practice

10:28

of like locking in place

10:30

and everybody hitting their motions of exactly the same

10:32

time and all that stuff and like you just

10:34

can't really fake that and they kind of try

10:36

to fake it In this movie and it doesn't

10:38

really work very well Like that was the one

10:40

part of the boy brand the boy band experience

10:42

that just kind of rang now I

10:45

could little false to me so I could be wrong

10:47

about this but like Only

10:49

because I'm having been super into like

10:51

the contemporary like boy band scene in

10:53

like the past I don't know decade

10:56

or so Did One

10:58

Direction have like crisp choreographed dances

11:00

because I don't remember them like

11:02

being a big You

11:08

know, I guess I can't say

11:10

with certainty It's

11:12

been a while since I've seen a One Direction music video

11:14

So I guess I can't say I was just sort of

11:17

late in my the platonic ideal of

11:19

a boy band in my head Dances

11:22

with a little bit more of that sort of Christmas

11:24

No, that's and I agree with that. I do think

11:27

that in recent years They some

11:29

boy bands have veered away from that stigma of

11:31

like, okay Everyone has to do the same dance

11:33

moves and stuff like that Whereas it's more of

11:35

like a hey, we're just a cool group and

11:37

reviving up here on stage You know, like there's

11:39

still obviously it's like the groups like BTS and

11:41

stuff like that We're like it's all about those

11:44

choreographed dance moves and things but I feel like

11:46

that there was like a sect of boy bands

11:48

from like the the late 2000s into the 2010s

11:51

were like they they weren't necessarily the

11:54

same kind of like, you know Choreographed

11:56

kind of boy bands where they were

11:58

all dancing together Okay, well I

12:00

fully acknowledge that I could very well be wrong in

12:02

this component. So I appreciate you dropping some knowledge on

12:05

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12:37

right, so I think that's good enough

12:39

before I really want to talk about

12:41

the ending of this movie with you, Brad. But before

12:43

we get into spoilers, did you have any other aspects

12:45

of the film that you wanted to shout out or

12:48

like things to talk about before we sort of hit

12:50

the metaphorical spoiler gong here? I

12:52

want to give a shout out

12:56

to the actress who plays

12:58

Anne Hathaway's daughter, Ella Rubin.

13:02

This was one of the times where

13:04

like I really felt like they nailed the

13:06

casting as far as someone's kid.

13:08

And it really felt like it could be Anne

13:10

Hathaway's daughter. They're like,

13:12

typically, like when you see kids in movies, like

13:14

they're just cast because like, oh, they're fun kids

13:16

and they're charismatic, but they don't ever look or

13:18

feel like they're like the kids of the actors

13:21

that they are supposed to be the offspring of. And

13:24

there was something about Ella Rubin's performance and her

13:26

overall look. And

13:29

I wonder if it's just because she kind of looks

13:31

like a young Anne Hathaway from like Princess Diaries, but

13:33

like, you know, with like a cool, you know, modern

13:35

day edge that kind of made me feel like, oh,

13:37

yeah, that feels like Anne Hathaway's daughter. Yeah. Yeah, I

13:40

thought she was a good actress. I thought she

13:42

seemed to me, I don't know, I didn't look

13:44

up her age in real life versus the age

13:46

of the character. But she seemed much older than,

13:48

you know, a young high

13:50

school student to me. Like,

13:53

she does look a little bit older. Yeah, I was

13:55

like, she's going to camp. Yeah, I know. Yeah,

13:57

that was exactly what I was going to say. At one point, she

13:59

shows up at camp. And my wife and I like

14:01

turned to each other and we're like wait a

14:03

second like is she a counselor here or like

14:05

what's going on? Because yeah, it looks like she

14:08

is 22. So she's kind of kind of right

14:10

around there. She still looks young, but yeah Yeah,

14:12

and I also like that they cast any Moomalo

14:14

in like a little supporting role I actually wish

14:16

that we would have been able to see more

14:19

of her because I really liked her role Yeah

14:21

I wonder if there's something maybe left on the cutting room

14:24

forage for pacing or something like that because it seemed like

14:26

she had a pretty Small role and it's almost like you

14:29

know when you cast somebody like that You want her to

14:31

lean into her strengths as a performer which presumably would

14:33

involve like some comedic improv and stuff like that You

14:35

know bouncing back and forth and halfway and there weren't

14:37

really that many scenes the two of them kind of

14:39

hanging out I agree. I would have liked to see

14:41

in that as well But and she did get one

14:43

of the best lines which was oh did I not

14:45

tell you no one likes seeing a

14:47

woman happy Yeah, exactly Okay,

14:51

let's get into some spoiler stuff. So this

14:53

is the movie is out on prime video

14:55

right now So if you've not had a chance to see

14:57

it yet, you can press pause watch the movie and then

14:59

come back But I wanted to

15:01

talk to you about the ending Brad. So

15:03

as the film approaches its end Celine Which

15:05

is an half-wave character and Hayes which is

15:07

Nicholas Galitzan? They're together and everything seems to

15:10

be fine. And then Izzy the the daughter

15:13

Essentially has this really really bad day at

15:15

school and Celine begins to realize what effect

15:18

Her relationships is actually having on her daughter's life So

15:20

she goes to break it off with Hayes again and

15:22

they agree that in five years They'll revisit the

15:24

possibility of trying to get back together But each

15:26

of them should try to pursue love if they

15:28

happen to find it in the meantime So five

15:30

years go by and then Izzy is now off

15:32

at college and the movie basically ends with Hayes

15:34

walking back into Celine's life and the

15:37

two of them getting back together. So I was curious what

15:39

you thought about the the ending of this story You

15:41

know, I liked it because it did feel like

15:44

they didn't try to go for like

15:46

this happily ever after Kind of

15:48

ending you like you could easily see that in it But

15:50

I think it's just the kind of thing where like it

15:52

leaves it open-ended like sure he comes back and like maybe

15:54

it'll work Out maybe it won't but like the fact that

15:56

like they're gonna give it a go after waiting five years,

15:58

you know that it's something that

16:01

still stays with him. It's something that

16:03

she's probably still willing to

16:05

try out and give it a shot.

16:08

And I also, I kind of appreciated that this was kind

16:10

of almost like the anti-La

16:12

La Land in a way, where

16:14

La La Land, we get this whole alternate

16:16

thing of how it would have worked out

16:18

if it went this way instead. But then

16:20

they both kind of accepted that they have

16:22

to have these separate lives and their romance

16:24

just wasn't meant to be. And

16:26

here you get that time where

16:28

it's all that everything has happened in

16:30

their lives. And even though you

16:32

don't see it, you understand that they're both happy

16:35

doing whatever they're doing, but then they get a

16:37

chance to essentially make it right. So I

16:40

felt like it was a nice ending

16:42

without being overly saccharine about

16:44

it. Yeah. The idea of yearning

16:47

taking place over literal years, like

16:49

the beauty of the reunion

16:51

with the often unspoken tragedy of

16:53

the sacrifices that people have to

16:56

make to get there in scenarios

16:58

like that, is one of those

17:00

romantic tropes that pretty much

17:02

always gets me. Like when it's done right,

17:04

there's almost nothing that I find more powerful

17:06

as a viewer. And to me, this

17:09

movie came close to nailing it, but

17:11

I think it kind of sort of

17:13

speeds through its conclusion a little quickly,

17:15

like so quickly that I didn't really

17:17

have enough time to see the

17:20

two main characters dealing with the weight of the decision

17:22

that they made and then really- Yeah, I agree with

17:24

you there, yeah. I would have liked to have

17:26

seen a little more, maybe like five minutes

17:28

of what they were doing, living

17:30

their lives over those years, as opposed to

17:32

just five years later. Yeah, because then when

17:34

they're reunited, you can really feel that sense

17:36

of the weight lifting. And I think that's

17:38

where the emotional punch comes in,

17:40

for me anyway. And I also

17:42

wanted to talk to you about the decision for them to break

17:45

up at the end. I don't have kids, I know you don't

17:47

have kids either, as far as I know. Brad. As

17:49

far as I know too, I mean. But

17:52

I'm guessing many parents would want to prioritize

17:54

their kids' happiness over their own. So like

17:56

on paper, I understand why Anne

17:58

Hathaway would make the decision. decision to break things

18:01

off there. But like on the on the other

18:03

hand, I guess it seems like the main reason

18:05

that she split up with Hayes is because Izzy's

18:08

classmates were kind of messing with her

18:10

in various ways about her mom's relationship

18:12

with this pop star. And the idea

18:14

that just because she breaks

18:16

it off that those kids would then, you know,

18:18

suddenly forget about that and just like move on

18:20

with their lives kind of struck me as a

18:22

little far fetched. Like these are high school kids

18:24

we're talking about, you know, in high school kids

18:27

will spend years calling someone piss pants Steve because

18:29

the kids spilled some water in front of his

18:31

pants one time, you know, so like, I don't

18:34

know, it just super bad people don't forget. Yeah,

18:37

exactly. So it just kind of the

18:39

idea of like, it just

18:41

it seemed a little clean in the movie, I

18:43

guess is what I'm saying. So I was wondering

18:46

if you if you felt that at all, or

18:48

if you're just like so into the story that

18:50

that didn't matter or if like, you were brainstorming

18:52

other ways that these characters could have like, figured

18:54

some, you know, some way to continue this relationship

18:57

or what you thought about any of that. Yeah,

19:00

I agree with that to some extent. But

19:02

I also do think that as petty as

19:04

high schoolers can be about

19:06

things like that. They can also be

19:08

equally as like, just like brief

19:11

with them, you know, where like it's an obsession for

19:13

a little bit. But then if it's not something that

19:15

is really prominent anymore, or like, you

19:17

know, something that is keeps popping up in their

19:19

lives, and they just stop caring, and it doesn't

19:21

become a thing, you know, like, the

19:23

idea of like, basically, something being

19:26

a meme, you know, in high school culture, and then

19:28

moving away from it. And I think that if anything,

19:30

the decision is probably just based on the idea, like,

19:32

if they keep doing this, this isn't

19:34

going to go away, you know, like, where

19:36

they'll always be, you know, on tabloids,

19:38

and they'll always be someone, you know, trying

19:40

to take pictures of them. And like, I

19:43

think not wanting that life for your kid at a very

19:45

pivotal moment in their life is pretty

19:47

understandable. Even if

19:49

you do you do want that that level of happiness.

19:51

And I yeah, I do think that it's the kind

19:53

of thing where even if you think that

19:55

like, it'll get better as it

19:57

goes on, like, that's just a lot.

20:00

to deal with. That's something that like, you

20:02

know, even us, you know, knowing how this

20:04

industry works, you know, I don't think I

20:06

could ever understand how stressful and frustrating and

20:08

annoying that would be. Yeah. So so yeah,

20:11

and I think that if they

20:13

do break up and like he's not around more than

20:15

like a lot of those people just aren't going to

20:17

care, you know, like, yeah, just you get your 15

20:19

minutes of fame and moving on. Yeah, I just wanted

20:21

the two crazy kids to get together, you know, actually

20:24

thought they did a good job

20:26

too with like transitioning him out of the boy band

20:28

space and into like the singer songwriter like solo performer

20:30

where like, yeah, for sure, even the look of his

20:32

character changed, you know, in that five year gap, and

20:34

then he's got like some facial hair or something that

20:36

he did or like some sort of styling or something

20:38

that looks a little bit different. It looks like he's

20:40

dressing a little bit differently. It just kind of like,

20:43

it felt real. It felt like that amount of time actually

20:45

had passes. Like I said, I just wish I had a

20:47

little bit more time like with those characters to, to sort

20:50

of feel the weight of that decision. But okay,

20:52

anything else that you wanted to mention about the

20:54

idea of you before we get into your interview

20:56

here? Um, I don't

20:59

think so. All right. Well,

21:01

here is your conversation with Michael Showalter. Hey,

21:04

Michael, how's it going? Great to talk to you again. Good. How are you?

21:07

Fantastic. Let's just dig right into it. You know, Michael,

21:09

I gotta say, I feel like you're one

21:12

of the few filmmakers working today who is

21:15

making movies in the same vein as Nancy

21:17

Myers, Nora Efra and James L. Brooks. And

21:20

I was wondering if like, are those, you know,

21:22

some of the cinematic influences that, that helped you

21:24

shape this movie or were there other ones that

21:26

kind of helped inform your, your approach to this

21:28

film? I

21:30

mean, I love all those directors that you just said.

21:32

And yes, I mean, those

21:35

are the movies that I grew up on and that

21:37

I loved. And so I would add

21:39

to that list, Cameron Crowe and Richard

21:41

Curtis, Woody Allen,

21:44

and, and probably quite a

21:46

few others, but I, to

21:49

some extent,

21:51

but I also do think that as petty

21:53

as high schoolers can be about

21:55

things like that, they can also be

21:58

equally as like, just like like

22:00

brief with them, you know, where like it's an obsession for

22:02

a little bit, but then if it's not something that is

22:05

really prominent anymore or like, uh, you know,

22:07

something that is, keeps popping up in their

22:09

lives and they just stop caring and it

22:11

doesn't become a thing, you know, like the

22:13

idea of like, basically something being

22:15

a meme, you know, in high school culture and then

22:17

moving away from it. And I think that if anything,

22:19

the decision is probably just based on the idea of

22:21

like, if they keep doing this, this isn't

22:23

going to go away, you know, like where they'll

22:25

always be, you know, on tabloids

22:27

and they'll always be someone, you know, trying

22:29

to take pictures of them. And like, I

22:32

think not wanting that life for your kid at a very

22:34

pivotal moment in their life is pretty

22:36

understandable. Um, even if you do,

22:39

you do want that, that level of happiness. And I,

22:41

yeah, and I do think that it's the kind of

22:43

thing where even if you think that

22:45

like, it'll get better as it

22:47

goes on, like that's, it's just a

22:49

lot to do with, but something that like,

22:51

you know, even us, you know, knowing how

22:53

this industry works, you know, I don't think

22:55

I could ever understand how stressful and frustrating

22:58

and annoying that would be. Um, so, so

23:00

yeah. And I think that if

23:02

they do break up and like he's not around more

23:04

than like a lot of those people just aren't going

23:06

to care, you know, like you just, you get your

23:08

15 minutes of fame and then moving on. Yeah. I

23:10

just wanted the two crazy kids to get together, you

23:13

know, um, I actually thought

23:15

they did a good job too with like transitioning him

23:17

out of the boy band space and into like the

23:19

singer songwriter, like solo performer, where like the, even the

23:21

look of his character changed, you know, in that five

23:23

year gap, I think he's got like some facial hair

23:25

or something that he did or like some sort of

23:27

styling or something that looks a little bit different. It

23:29

looks like he's dressing a little bit differently. And just

23:31

kind of like it felt real. It

23:33

felt like that amount of time actually had passes. Like

23:36

I said, I just wish I had a little bit

23:38

more time, like with those characters to, to sort of

23:40

feel the weight of that decision. But, um, okay. Anything

23:42

else that you wanted to mention about the idea of

23:44

you before we get into your interview here? Um,

23:47

I don't think so. All right.

23:49

Well, here is your conversation with

23:51

Michael show Walter. Hey, Michael, how's it going? Great

23:54

to talk to you again. Fantastic.

23:56

Uh, let's just dig right into it. You

23:58

know, uh, Michael, I gotta say, I

24:00

feel like you're one of the few filmmakers

24:02

working today who is making movies

24:04

in the same vein as Nancy Meyers, Nora

24:07

Efra, and James L. Brooks. And

24:09

I was wondering if like, are those, you know,

24:11

some of the cinematic influences that helped you shape

24:13

this movie? Or were there other ones that kind

24:15

of helped inform your approach to this film? I

24:20

mean, I love all those directors that you just said.

24:22

And yes, I mean, those

24:24

are the movies that I grew up on and that

24:26

I loved. And so I would add

24:28

to that list Cameron Crowe and Richard

24:30

Curtis, Woody Allen,

24:35

and probably quite a few others. But I,

24:40

you know, love, I

24:42

grew up watching romantic John

24:44

Hughes, romantic comedies

24:46

and movies where you

24:49

had all the elements of great filmmaking,

24:51

you had great performances, you had great

24:53

stories, you had great cinematic elements in

24:55

terms of, you know, production design and

24:57

wardrobe. And it

25:00

was seen as a genre where great

25:02

filmmakers could make great films. And

25:04

so it's not to say that I just,

25:12

for me, that's just my, those

25:14

are just the movies that I

25:17

aspire to make. And so I

25:19

grew up loving

25:22

those movies. And oftentimes, they

25:25

have a little bit

25:27

of something to say beyond just, you

25:30

know, a kind of cute romantic

25:32

story, there's usually some other idea

25:34

at play, whether it's about

25:37

friendship or life and death or

25:40

coming of age, what have you, those, those

25:42

movies tend to kind of have a dramatic

25:45

element to them that I, I as a,

25:47

as a, you know, say anything is a

25:49

great example. Or when Harry

25:51

Met Sally is really all about platonic friendship,

25:53

and it really examines these things. And so

25:56

I think of the romantic comedy as a

25:58

very serious genre. and film and so

26:01

I approach it that way. Now

26:04

you've parodied romantic to comedy a couple of

26:06

times before. In

26:09

more recent years you've had romances that

26:11

have been more focused on the relationship

26:13

and drama but there is still a

26:15

touch of comedy in there. Do you

26:18

find yourself approaching directing any differently when

26:20

comedy isn't taking the spotlight as much?

26:22

Is it hard to resist the desire

26:24

to like insert more jokes in there? You

26:28

know it's interesting. The movies,

26:31

the films that are, well there's I guess

26:34

the Baxter I did direct. They

26:37

came together I did not direct. No

26:41

I think, I

26:43

mean that's another

26:45

genre that I love which is parody

26:48

and so I love airplane movies and

26:50

Mel Brooks movies and stuff and so

26:52

they kind of exist in a separate

26:55

thing. It's like

26:57

when I'm making a sort

26:59

of earnest more earnest type movie it

27:01

wouldn't feel right to do those kinds

27:03

of jokes. Every once in a while

27:05

a joke like that will occur to me and I

27:07

either don't, it doesn't feel

27:11

right or if in some

27:14

cases I might shoot a silly joke it

27:16

always gets cut. It always

27:18

gets cut. There's a certain tone to

27:21

these movies that are really important

27:23

and you want comedy and you

27:25

want fun set pieces and fun

27:27

situations but the

27:30

two genres don't really fit together

27:32

because one is very meta

27:35

and kind of poking fun

27:37

at the genre and then the

27:39

other is it's entirely sincere and

27:41

earnest and so they don't, it

27:43

would be hard to mix them together. Yeah.

27:46

Having seen the Baxter and they came together

27:48

it's clear that like you were just so

27:51

tapped in to like all the cliches that

27:53

romantic comedies tend to deliver. Are

27:55

there any tropes that you specifically go out of

27:57

your way to avoid when it comes to doing

28:00

your own romances and romantic comedies?

28:07

There's no tropes that I avoid, but

28:09

I would say kind of going back

28:11

to my first point, which is it's

28:14

interesting because tropes and cliches, at least

28:16

I see, are different. A

28:18

trope is a convention

28:21

of the genre that if done

28:23

in the right way is very

28:25

satisfying. For

28:28

me, a cliche is when you

28:31

see something that is a regurgitation

28:33

of those tropes, wherein the filmmaker

28:35

and or writer doesn't even know

28:38

why it's there. And

28:40

so they're doing the trope without

28:42

even knowing what the purpose of

28:44

the trope is. And

28:46

that when you

28:49

see that, that feels like cliche

28:51

because I

28:53

love genre movies. And I love seeing

28:55

the conventions of the genre repeated. If

28:58

the filmmaker and or

29:00

writer understands its purpose.

29:02

Yeah. Whereas if it's

29:04

just in there, because

29:07

that's what always happens, and

29:09

it seems somewhat unarbitrary,

29:13

like, well, there has to be a scene when this happens.

29:15

And so they just put it in the movie. Yeah,

29:18

that that then it then we're

29:20

in cliche territory. And so

29:22

I would guess my answer to that question would be, I

29:26

avoid cliche, but I really love

29:28

tropes. I

29:32

would also

29:35

say that I like for

29:38

the movie to hopefully be about

29:40

something more than just the romance.

29:42

So whether that's the big sick,

29:44

or this movie or other

29:46

films I've done, I

29:48

hope that the

29:50

romantic story

29:53

is something that we can

29:55

also address other things through

29:57

that romantic story so that it's not

29:59

only a will

30:01

they or won't they relationship

30:03

story that it's also addressing

30:06

other ideas about adulthood

30:12

about life, death, career,

30:16

friendship, what have you. Yeah.

30:22

What was the process like creating the music

30:24

for August moon because it generally sounds like

30:26

like good pop music you'd hear on the

30:28

radio today. Did you yourself have like a

30:30

certain style in mind you wanted to emulate

30:33

when developing the sound and those sequences? Well

30:36

we had an incredible we have

30:38

an incredible screenwriter, a songwriter

30:40

who wrote all the songs,

30:42

sob and katacha, who is

30:46

a very, very

30:49

successful pop songwriter

30:51

who's written pop songs for every

30:53

single major recording artist out

30:56

there right now. And so we

31:00

knew that he would we

31:02

fully I fully you

31:04

know I would never be able to do that. So he

31:07

was the perfect person for it. But we

31:09

did know that we wanted to have them

31:12

have good music. We wanted their

31:14

music to be cool and fun and

31:17

and that this they weren't August

31:19

moon. We didn't want August moon

31:21

to be cheesy or we didn't want

31:23

to satirize the boy

31:25

band. It was much more of an

31:27

embracing of and a celebration of the

31:29

boy band. Did you

31:31

have any like specific boy bands in mind that

31:34

like you kind of wanted to emulate through August

31:36

moon or was just more of like a general

31:38

vibe? For me it

31:40

wasn't a specific boy band but it was

31:42

more I feel like just paying attention to

31:44

the current pop stars of our generation whether

31:46

it's whether it is a Harry Styles or

31:49

a Billie Eilish or a Dua Lipa

31:52

or Taylor Swift or Frank Ocean. The

31:55

way these these these pop stars

31:57

express themselves the way they look.

32:00

the way they function

32:02

in society as artists, as

32:05

public figures. It was more about that for

32:07

me. Yeah. Anne

32:09

Hathaway is fantastic in this movie. And it

32:11

seems like she's really been touched by the

32:14

role and also the reaction to it based

32:16

on the screening from South by

32:18

Southwest. I was curious if

32:20

she brought any new perspective,

32:23

maybe changes to the script when you became

32:25

involved or even decisions like on shooting days

32:27

that kind of helped her tap into a

32:29

bit more and helped you kind of see

32:32

maybe like a different perspective you hadn't seen before.

32:35

Oh, yeah. I mean, Anne very much,

32:39

we worked together and she brought

32:41

enormous amount of ideas

32:43

and very

32:46

much played a role in the

32:48

shaping of her character from her dialogue, from

32:50

choices that we were making and how we

32:52

were going to tell her story to the

32:54

way she, the clothes she

32:56

wore to the kind of artwork that

32:58

was in her gallery to the way

33:00

her house was decorated, every element of

33:02

the character, Anne had a lot of

33:04

input in and we collaborated

33:06

on all of it. And that was

33:09

amazing to be able to have that experience

33:11

with her. Yeah, because

33:13

it seems one thing I really appreciate about

33:15

it is how it takes something that feels

33:17

like it's something that people kind of understand

33:19

on a service level about living life in

33:22

the spotlight and makes it feel very authentic

33:24

and personal. And I feel like, especially with

33:26

somebody like Anne Hathaway who experienced such a

33:28

real vitriol from the internet and adds a

33:31

whole new level to her being in that

33:33

role. Totally. I totally agree. I'm

33:35

glad you picked up on that because I do feel like

33:37

that's part of it. She's

33:39

definitely experienced

33:42

what it feels like to have

33:45

people having opinions about

33:47

her and to have

33:50

her, just her ability to live her life

33:52

the way she wants to be so affected by other

33:54

people. Yeah, absolutely. I

33:57

want to give you credit too because you've

33:59

given us a... that is

34:01

also quite sexy. I don't

34:03

remember the last time I saw a romance of

34:06

this caliber that was both extremely authentic

34:08

and felt like there was like a

34:11

genuine sizzling chemistry between the leads. As

34:14

a director, how do you approach scenes

34:16

like that where they feel intimate without

34:19

feeling gratuitous? I

34:24

mean, some of it is editing, obviously. Like you kind of get

34:26

a lot of footage and then you try

34:28

to shape that in the edit. We

34:31

could have edited it in any number of

34:33

ways. But I think, again, and wanting

34:36

to, we wanted this to be

34:38

a sexy movie. We want to

34:40

show them having a great time with

34:44

each other in that way. And

34:48

to show the sex

34:52

in a way that

34:54

was also respectful and intimate and

34:57

not trying to be exploitative about

35:00

it or to kind

35:02

of make it

35:05

pearl clutching or anything. But

35:09

it's a beautiful thing that these two

35:11

people are sharing with each other. And

35:13

that was important to try to show

35:15

that. Yeah. So

35:18

studios really seem like they're not taking as

35:20

many opportunities to bring

35:22

romances like this, romantic

35:25

comedy, even full on comedies to the big

35:27

screen anymore. A lot of them end up

35:29

on streaming. What have you found,

35:31

do you think, makes it

35:33

difficult for them to take chances on

35:35

the movies that you've typically made over

35:37

the years? I

35:41

mean, I think prior to pre-COVID,

35:47

we wouldn't be having this conversation. So

35:50

it feels like COVID changed that a

35:52

lot. I

35:54

had prior to COVID had

35:56

made a bunch of movies that had

35:58

all been theatrical. It

36:00

was, you know, nothing was going to, you know,

36:03

it seemed like everything was kind of staying in

36:05

that way. And then I think COVID changed so

36:07

much. This

36:09

is not, you know, marketing

36:12

distribution, how the how movies

36:14

are consumed is not

36:16

really my area. I

36:19

love having the opportunity to see

36:22

the movie in a theater with an audience

36:24

and to see the reaction that the movie

36:26

gets. But I also am

36:28

someone who myself watches a lot of movies

36:30

on my laptop, my computer at home and

36:32

in the middle of the day, you know.

36:35

And so it would be

36:37

it would be, you know, I'd be

36:39

lying if I didn't say that my own viewing

36:41

habits have changed. And

36:43

I I've had a great

36:46

experience working with Amazon on this film. They've

36:48

been really supportive of us and have been

36:50

great partners to us. And so I'm

36:54

happy and grateful to be still able

36:56

to be making movies, telling stories. And we'll

36:59

leave it up to those guys to figure out what's

37:01

the best way to get it out there. For

37:03

sure. I'm curious, do you have

37:06

any desire to ever jump into genres like

37:09

horror or sci fi? Have you thought about

37:11

what a Michael Schrull Walter, you know, sci

37:13

fi or horror movie? I would love to.

37:15

I mean, I have I have favorite movies

37:17

in all of these genres. So

37:19

when I make when I make any movie, I

37:22

would you know, I look to someone like

37:24

Danny Boyle, who's made romantic comedies. But then

37:26

he's all you know, he made yesterday and

37:28

then he also did 28 Days Later, which

37:30

is one of my favorite movies. And he

37:32

did, I believe it's called Sunshine, which

37:34

is a science fiction movie.