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Sounds Music Radio podcasts,

0:51

I. Spent years feeling unsafe and questing those

0:53

close to me. You're

0:55

lying. Say. My

0:58

mental and physical health has severely declined.

1:01

I've. Cried so much I burst blood vessels

1:03

in and around my eyes. When.

1:05

A D Slate. Often. Have Nightmares

1:07

centered on this. I know

1:09

exactly. United States launched. Discount

1:12

of I need I. I've also

1:14

had feelings of being suicidal. Jody

1:19

had everything. A good

1:21

job, great friends and a busy

1:23

social life. But. Her world

1:25

was turned upside down and pornographic. deep

1:28

thanks of her appeared on line. Initially,

1:31

Turned away by the police, she

1:33

turned detective herself. But

1:35

nothing could prepare her for what she

1:37

eventually discovered. And. What Happened to

1:40

Jody? Could happen to any

1:42

of us who have that many would

1:44

say oh yeah, say we're very. We're

1:46

very so. This breach of my trust,

1:49

this violation. Will. Continue

1:51

to affect the relationships I have

1:53

both current and future. And.

1:55

Is undoubtedly old my view of the world for

1:57

the worse. Dirty

2:02

isn't her real name, but this is

2:04

her voice and it's very much her

2:07

story. For. Jody A began on

2:09

a hot summer's day and a park in

2:11

London, and Twenty nineteen? Have

2:13

just started dating this guy in

2:15

a really like him. And

2:18

my son. he's in great

2:20

son drinking pricetag and I

2:22

got a message from someone

2:24

on facebook. And

2:27

it says. Oh

2:29

he said on for me since nine. And

2:32

I just reply on say sorry

2:34

i'm not sure who you are

2:37

or he thinks we say

2:39

Cds and clown whereas he saw

2:41

my with mason and he says

2:43

oh on the stating our. Duties.

2:47

Know own any dating apps and he doesn't

2:49

recognize the man he sent the message. And.

2:52

He sends me in the profile and it's

2:54

all of my photos with my name. With.

2:57

Very identifying. descriptions

3:00

of who I am, where.

3:02

I come from. The.

3:04

University Life when say someone's created

3:06

a dating profile of Jody using

3:09

Say toys from her social media.

3:11

Accounts. It. Says she's looking

3:13

for men for dates and hookups or

3:15

one night stands. The

3:17

man says he's been messaging Jody for

3:19

weeks. He really likes her These Excited

3:22

for that date tonight. I

3:24

apologize to him because I feel quite sorry

3:26

for him. He thinks that we're going on

3:29

a date tonight. I. Say I'm

3:31

so sorry Think the obeying success.

3:33

He's. Embarrassed. He's. Been

3:35

tricked. But. Ask the she really would

3:37

like to go on a date. She. Turns

3:40

him down. And then a few

3:42

months go by. And I

3:44

got a message from him which says.

3:47

Merry Christmas! I

3:49

don't apply because because it is

3:51

a stranger two days later on

3:53

Boxing Day. He just

3:55

replies to his a message and says. Bitch.

4:01

Catfishing is where someone pretends to be

4:03

someone else online, using their photos and

4:06

information. Jodie's pictures have been

4:09

used to create a fake dating profile

4:11

and whoever's made it is chatting with

4:13

men online, leading them on. And

4:15

this isn't the first time this has happened. When

4:18

I had first gone to Sickform College, people

4:21

had started messaging me on Facebook,

4:24

Instagram and

4:26

saying that people had been

4:28

using my social media photos

4:30

on dating apps. I

4:33

suppose I didn't really think too much of

4:35

it. I thought it's a risk that people

4:37

take when they use social media. And sometimes

4:39

they had my name, sometimes it was other

4:41

people's names, but it always

4:43

had my location, my real age. I

4:46

suppose the more that it happened, the more I

4:48

felt that this person did actually know who I was.

4:50

I think that's probably the first time

4:52

that I felt a bit concerned about who

4:55

was doing this and why and what

4:57

they were gaining from it, I suppose. This

5:03

has been a problem since Jodie was a teenager.

5:06

She's really beautiful, using

5:08

her images will attract a lot of

5:11

attention. It's

5:13

May 2020, the middle of lockdown.

5:16

Every part of the United Kingdom is now

5:18

in lockdown, with people being urged to stay

5:20

at home. The whole world just

5:22

goes mad. No one knows

5:24

if they can leave the house. And

5:27

everyone is turning to social media because

5:30

there's nothing else to do. And I

5:33

get a message from someone that I

5:35

went to university with. It says,

5:38

I was on Twitter and

5:40

I thought you should know. It's a selection

5:42

of pictures of

5:44

me from my social media accounts. Who

5:48

the hell has done this? There's

5:50

a side of X, formerly known as Twitter,

5:52

that you might not know. There's a lot

5:54

of porn on there. Dozens

5:57

of photos of Jodie have been posted onto

5:59

this dark side of the site.

6:01

They're mostly close-ups of her face, smiling

6:03

into the camera. There are

6:05

a few of her in a bikini too, ones

6:08

taken by her mum on a family

6:10

holiday. But all her photos, ones

6:13

she's posted on Instagram and Facebook.

6:16

But the captions alongside say that Jodie

6:18

wants to earn some extra money during

6:20

lockdown, selling sex. More

6:24

captions ask viewers to rate Jodie's body

6:26

and comment on what they'd like to

6:28

do to her. There

6:56

were photos from when I was on holiday with my

6:59

friends, selfies, and a lot of the

7:14

captions were comparing

7:17

the front of my body to the back of

7:19

my body or asking

7:21

what would you like to do with

7:23

teen Jodie. You're sick,

7:25

this is sick. Did

7:27

you read any of the comments? Yeah,

7:30

I read a lot of the comments. When

7:33

there was a specific question, front or back,

7:36

it would be like a conversation

7:38

between lots of men. And

7:42

with the photos where they're

7:44

calling me a slut and

7:46

filthy, I'm reading the comments

7:49

and they're agreeing, they're

7:52

calling me disgusting names

7:55

and they're saying what they would do with me. And I'm

7:57

going through a lot of these accounts. I'm

8:01

also finding countless images of

8:03

other people that I know. Jodie

8:05

scrolls through these accounts for hours, reporting

8:07

the images to Twitter, asking for them

8:10

to be removed. While

8:12

she's scrolling, she also finds dozens

8:14

of photos of her friends from

8:16

back home and from university, all

8:19

with similar offensive sexual captions.

8:23

One of the people she recognises is a

8:25

close friend, Will Called Daisy, like

8:27

others in this programme, for giving her a

8:29

pseudonym. Jodie and

8:32

Daisy met on their first day of

8:34

university and became inseparable. One

8:36

of the photos of Daisy is of her on

8:38

holiday, posing in a bikini. She's

8:41

mortified. I received the message

8:46

and it just felt

8:48

sick, instantly felt sick.

8:51

And there's not just one Twitter page. We found countless.

8:56

And it was like a rabbit hole of images

8:59

and, oh, we recognise

9:01

this person. And the more we

9:03

looked, the worse it got. Their

9:06

photos have been posted by a

9:08

user called Real UK Girls. X

9:10

has loads of these kinds of profiles

9:12

and some have tens of thousands of

9:15

followers. The profiles ask people

9:17

to submit photos of women they know and

9:19

then they post them with sexual

9:21

questions and captions. Jodie

9:24

and Daisy messaged the accounts, asking

9:26

how they found their photos. And

9:29

the response was, they're

9:32

all submissions. We don't go

9:34

looking for them. They're usually

9:36

an ex-partner, someone

9:39

that doesn't like you, someone

9:41

that loves you. My brain just goes

9:44

crazy thinking about who

9:46

this might be. I'm thinking back

9:49

through every conversation that I've

9:51

had with someone, every person that I've

9:53

ever had an argument

9:55

with, every person that I've ever disagreed

9:57

with or told them that they're wrong,

10:00

It must be someone that just doesn't like. They

10:02

are really thought that someone was punishing me for

10:04

something the I had done or said I didn't

10:06

know that is going to get so much was

10:09

I thought that was as bad as it could

10:11

have a gun. When. Dirty

10:13

Scroll through the accounts she discovers that

10:15

someone's been submitting. Site is of her

10:17

and her friends and eighteen months. Vulnerable.

10:20

And scared she calls the police they tell

10:23

it is nothing they can dave. It's

10:25

up to Twitter to take the say. Tuesday. I

10:28

think the reality is that is

10:30

the police wanted to prosecute someone

10:32

doing that for a criminal offense

10:34

decode. Clamor. Glenn as

10:36

a lawyer and a professor at

10:39

Durham University, specializing in image based

10:41

sexual abuse. Sir. Are of

10:43

fences around malicious communications? There

10:46

are a fences around harassment.

10:48

There. Are a census releasing

10:50

see reaching Public Decency. The.

10:53

Reality is the police.

10:55

Lack resources and they lack

10:58

interest in really responding to

11:00

these forms of online abuse.

11:03

Which. Is also why we require

11:05

platforms to be more proactive.

11:07

Twitter is assessed hit of

11:09

online abuse and sexual harassment.

11:11

The sort solve links and

11:14

profiles you describes are incredibly

11:16

comment as his many forms

11:18

of sexual violence an unlawful

11:20

pornography. That was the case

11:22

even before the recent changes

11:24

when Elon Musk to cover

11:26

but it's even worse. Nice.

11:32

Jody. And daisy know the status of

11:34

been taken from the Instagram and Facebook

11:36

accounts which old private. says.

11:38

Chillingly, they realize this is someone

11:41

they know. Someone. Their

11:43

friends with after being turned away by the

11:45

police they tend to Texas and pulled together

11:47

a list of all the friends they have

11:50

in common on social media. That.

11:52

List contains the names: a sixty

11:54

men. Though. the few people

11:56

here i kids cross off the

11:59

list almost without a second thought. So

12:02

my boyfriend, Charlie,

12:04

we've been together at this point for two

12:06

years and he

12:09

didn't use social media at all. My

12:11

best friend, Alex, who also knew the

12:14

enormous impact this was having on my

12:16

life and who at every

12:19

stage when I

12:21

was alerted to being

12:23

catfished or anything else, we would speak

12:26

about it. And my

12:28

brother who knew Daisy because he

12:30

had met her through my life and

12:34

who I just trust

12:36

100% with

12:38

everything. Imagine looking

12:40

down a list of your friends and

12:42

family and asking the questions, could

12:45

it possibly be them? Would

12:47

they do this to me? Does

12:49

this person have another side to them that I

12:51

just can't see? There

12:55

was only one person I knew that had

12:58

met people from university and

13:01

knew everyone from home. And

13:03

that was my ex-boyfriend. He followed

13:05

both of us. He followed a lot of the

13:08

other girls. He had

13:10

met Daisy more than once. I

13:13

just got the immediate gut feeling. I was like, oh, it

13:15

could be him. I don't know

13:17

if I don't see why. I

13:19

felt like that. It was just like a gut feeling. I

13:22

just thought he was so obsessed with

13:24

you. And if someone's doing

13:26

this, they had to be obsessed with

13:28

you. The two women become

13:31

focused on Jodie's ex-boyfriend, a mum

13:33

we're calling Dan. Dan's

13:35

from Cambridge, and it became

13:37

a couple once Jodie was at university. She

13:40

calls to confront him. I'm surprised

13:42

he picks up the phone so quickly. And

13:45

I say to him, I think

13:48

it's you. Is it you? And

13:50

he says, no, of course

13:52

it's not me. Why would I do

13:54

that to you? You know it's not me. How

13:57

did he sound? He sounded panicked.

14:00

Like. He was

14:02

very upset the. I

14:04

had called him about this. I

14:06

think. This conversation isn't going anywhere.

14:09

He's not going to admit this may on

14:11

the phone. Say. I

14:13

say something this may I present

14:15

I. Could. I'm really angry.

14:18

And I've got my answer. Her.

14:21

Ex boyfriend he she broke up

14:23

with it seems so obvious with

14:26

hit the jackpot. We. Can

14:28

move on with allies. For.

14:30

Me though is a senses. And

14:32

completeness when he didn't. Admit.

14:35

t what he had done. Because.

14:37

I felt. Thoughts: I

14:40

didn't have closure and I

14:42

think pipe. Casias

14:44

anyone would deny was a

14:47

denial. And. Will with deny

14:49

doing that to someone A Nice he said

14:51

it stopped some A that was what I

14:53

wanted. And it stops. So I

14:55

was. Happy. Dirty

14:57

relationship with Done has been intense and

15:00

it sounded quite suffocating. She'd ended the

15:02

relationship after a few months telling him

15:04

she wanted to concentrate on the her

15:07

as a person's months. I.

15:12

Didn't say things that other people of my

15:14

age work or into say i still have

15:16

nice x thought I didn't want to see

15:19

a pop. Star One Fatal. A

15:22

lot. Of her friends, a musical to the

15:24

best Friend Alex is an award winning

15:26

composer. Join. Looked down

15:28

he became a real lifeline every

15:30

time I got message. About being

15:33

taught this on social media

15:35

site old dating. Profile out

15:37

with and that to him and

15:40

he would always made me So

15:42

by san tell me that you

15:44

know people were clearly just taking

15:46

my photos because they wanted a

15:48

moment as May and they were

15:51

jealous as May. He

15:53

was really very supportive. He

15:55

says that. Now. I know who

15:58

it is. instead and

16:01

that's all I really wanted. I just wanted it to

16:03

stop because I was an

16:05

anxious person anyway and it

16:07

was driving me crazy.

16:11

She blocked them and the post stopped.

16:14

For the first time in months she feels like she can get

16:16

on with her life and she does,

16:18

moving to London to start a new job.

16:20

I was so excited it was

16:22

my dream job it was exactly what

16:25

I wanted to be doing and I

16:28

woke up to work from home one

16:30

day and I received an

16:33

email from an address

16:35

which I didn't recognise saying that

16:37

there were more photos. I just thought

16:40

I can't do this again but

16:43

nothing had prepared me for what I was about to open. I

16:46

didn't think it could get worse than

16:49

what had already happened. The

17:18

email comes from a sender called H Robin is not

17:20

okay and when Jodie clicks the link she can see

17:22

why. A

17:36

page opens on the website reddit. A

17:39

user called H Robin or Horny Robin

17:42

has posted photos of Jodie and two of her friends

17:45

numbering them one, two and three. H

17:49

Robin invites others online to take part in

17:51

a game. Which of these

17:53

women would you shag, marry and kill?

17:55

55 people

17:57

have already commented. them

18:00

were similar to the photos

18:02

that had appeared on Twitter but some of them

18:04

were more recent as well. I

18:06

had blocked Dan so

18:08

there was no way that he could have access

18:11

to these photos. It's not

18:13

Dan none of it was him. It turns

18:15

out he's completely innocent in all this. In

18:18

that moment I felt really scared because this

18:21

wasn't Dan and I had

18:25

no idea who it

18:27

was. That deep feeling in

18:29

the pit of my stomach that I had

18:31

had the year before just came

18:34

back in a way that I

18:36

didn't realize was even possible. I replied

18:39

to the email asking

18:42

who it was. They couldn't tell me.

18:44

I was scared of what

18:46

I would find if I went digging around and

18:48

I decided to basically

18:51

try and ignore it. Tell me

18:53

what happened next. So you had that

18:55

email exchange. You decided to

18:57

leave it. I remember seeing the light

19:00

of my phone. I wasn't sleeping well at

19:02

this point. I went to pick it up.

19:04

I saw that it was an email and

19:08

then I saw that who

19:10

the email was from. It's

19:12

March 2021. Six weeks after

19:15

the first anonymous email, Jodie received

19:17

another. It's a moment

19:19

that now divides her life. Before

19:21

that second email and after.

19:24

I'm genuinely so so sorry to reach out to

19:26

you again about this. I found

19:28

these huge trigger warning

19:30

because they contain lewd photoshopped images of

19:33

you. My whole

19:35

body was hot and I

19:40

just let out a

19:44

scream because I

19:46

knew that this could genuinely ruin

19:49

my life. And

19:52

I was

19:55

screaming and crying and violently

20:00

scrolling through my phone to work

20:04

out what I was reading and what

20:06

I was looking at and

20:10

I realised what it was and it was just

20:14

someone having sex with me. In

20:17

that moment I genuinely wanted to be dead. She's

20:20

confronted with photos and a video showing

20:22

her having sex with a number of

20:24

different men. It's hardcore

20:27

porn with her face

20:29

photoshopped on. It's all fake

20:31

but some of it looks real. Horny

20:34

Robbins shared photos of Jodie and asked

20:36

others on the site to fake her

20:38

onto porn. It's

20:41

completely humiliating, violating and

20:43

it's been sitting on the internet for

20:46

months. Thousands of people have already seen

20:48

it. Here's Claire McGlynn again.

20:50

So rate at which deep

20:52

fake pornography is being generated

20:55

and shared online is rising

20:57

exponentially and the threat

21:00

of deep fake pornography being made

21:02

is an invisible threat that's pervading

21:05

most women's lives because this could

21:07

happen to any one of us

21:10

at any time. Deep fake's are

21:12

where photos are manipulated using AI

21:14

technology to make realistic fake photos

21:16

or videos which look like someone's

21:19

doing or saying something they're not.

21:21

Making them used to be exclusively in

21:24

the hands of people with specialized computer

21:26

skills but now there

21:28

are websites dedicated to making deep fakes

21:30

for you. They just need

21:32

one photo where the person's looking straight

21:34

into the camera, something most

21:36

of us have shared online. The

21:39

websites and apps that you

21:41

use to create deep fake pornography

21:43

are advertised widely on mainstream

21:45

sites. Some young children

21:47

are accessing these apps through TikTok,

21:50

they're advertised on Twitter, if you

21:52

search on Google all these

21:54

apps and all these websites and YouTube

21:56

tutorials about how to make deep fake

21:59

porn are there for you right at

22:01

the very top of a search return. So

22:04

there's a whole ecosystem here

22:06

that is encouraging and facilitating

22:08

the creation and sharing of deep fake

22:11

pornography. And it's from all

22:13

the mainstream social media sites and the

22:15

mainstream search engines. This is not happening

22:17

on the dark web somewhere. You know,

22:20

young people and young men are not

22:22

having to spend much time to find

22:24

this material. In fact, it's being advertised

22:26

to them. There are tens of thousands

22:29

of these videos online. A

22:31

recent pornographic deep fake of Taylor Swift

22:33

was viewed millions of times when

22:35

it spread across social media. But

22:38

it's not just celebrities. There's

22:40

a rapidly growing market for videos of

22:42

normal women too. Women just

22:44

like Jodie. Photos of

22:47

her had been uploaded with a request

22:49

of faker to make personalized porn. But

22:52

in their rush to upload different angles of

22:54

Jodie's face, they uploaded the

22:56

smoking gun. A photo

22:59

that proved who was behind the posts.

23:02

There were two photos I knew weren't on

23:04

social media. One

23:07

of them where it's very

23:09

cropped and I'm looking at

23:11

someone and it's

23:13

outside King's College in Cambridge.

23:16

And I look really, really happy. And

23:18

it's only my side profile. And

23:22

I know instantly who it

23:24

is. When Jodie sees

23:26

this photo, she knows it could only

23:28

be that person. She

23:31

remembers the moment her mum took the photo.

23:34

There's something about the angle of her face

23:36

she dislikes. So she didn't post it on

23:38

social media. The one person she

23:41

shared it with was the other person in

23:43

the photo. It's her

23:45

best friend, Alex. I

23:49

just felt my whole world fall away from me.

23:52

And just

23:54

the most enormous sense of

23:57

betrayal and humiliation.

24:00

And I just

24:02

felt like my whole life was over.

24:04

Because if he could do

24:07

this to me, someone

24:09

who I loved, who I thought loved me

24:11

to, I just thought anyone

24:14

could do this to me. And

24:18

I relived every conversation that

24:20

we had where he

24:23

had comforted me and supported me

24:25

and been kind to me. And

24:28

I just knew that it was all a lie. And

24:30

he knew the impact that it was

24:32

having on my life so profoundly. And yet

24:35

he still did it. And it just felt

24:37

really humiliating.

24:41

And when I told my dad, he just didn't

24:43

believe it. He said to me, I

24:45

think you're jumping to conclusions. Maybe

24:48

his iCloud account could have been hacked.

24:51

Maybe someone's hacked into his laptop. It

24:54

can't be him. There's no way

24:56

he wouldn't do this to you. Your

25:05

name is Alex Wolff. Compassion. Composer.

25:07

And your chosen subject. Stephen Sondheim musical.

25:10

Stephen Sondheim. Alex Wolff, a BBC

25:12

young composer of the year and Jodie's

25:14

best friend for nearly a decade. Some

25:16

members. And

25:19

your time is up and you have... They'd bonded

25:22

over their shared love of classical music,

25:24

started going to concerts and shows, and

25:27

Jodie was so impressed with his achievements

25:29

and success. Alex was

25:31

kind, intelligent, and

25:34

he found him very endearing. He'd

25:36

never once said or indicated that he'd

25:38

wanted anything more. To her,

25:40

it was a purely platonic friendship.

25:43

I called my brother. I said,

25:47

I know he did it. I know

25:49

who's been doing it. It's Alex. He

25:52

just responded and said, that

25:55

makes so much sense. And

25:57

I think that was the moment the penny dropped. I

25:59

was so captivated. by our friendship that

26:01

I only ever saw the positives. My

26:04

brother had met him a number of

26:06

times. He also expressed to me that

26:09

he thought maybe he was

26:11

infatuated with me. My heart

26:13

sank because I thought how am I not seeing

26:15

this? Yes,

26:18

we're in the heart of Cambridge and this

26:20

is King's College and in

26:22

front of us we've got where all

26:25

of the Cambridge graduates graduate from so

26:28

they'll go in. We're going to Cambridge to meet Jodie

26:30

one weekend. I don't realise until

26:32

later that we're standing in a spot where

26:35

that photo of Jodie and Alex had been

26:37

taken. Alex uploaded the photos to the

26:39

porn site in June 2020 but

26:41

Jodie isn't made aware of them

26:44

until March 2021. In

26:46

that two-month period they're closer than ever speaking

26:49

pretty much every day. I mean we used to

26:51

come to this pub a lot like this is

26:53

probably the pub that we would go to the

26:55

most and I've got so many

26:58

photos of him like with

27:00

a glass of wine and he

27:03

would say oh yeah take my photo, take my

27:05

photo. So I've got lots of photos of him

27:07

in the windows here because it's

27:09

like the background is so beautiful. He

27:12

was my friend that I did all

27:15

of these kind of exciting things with

27:18

and because he lives in Cambridge our lives

27:20

are quite entwined in each other. I used

27:22

to work in town and he would come

27:25

and visit me at work so it

27:27

was nice to have a friend that I

27:29

could fully trust with secrets about my life

27:31

and it just felt very genuine

27:34

and real. When

27:40

she realises it's Alex Jodie

27:42

resists the urge to call him. She

27:44

doesn't want answers, she wants justice,

27:47

for herself and for the other women

27:49

that he'd done this to. So when

27:52

she picks up the phone it's to call the police.

27:55

I called the non-emergency police line and

27:58

explained a bit about what what had

28:00

happened and the nature of the crime. And

28:03

the person on the phone just explained

28:06

to me that I needed to go

28:08

into a station to report the offense

28:10

in person. I was in between two

28:12

stations and the city of London police

28:15

station was slightly closer. So

28:17

over the next three hours, I

28:20

recounted the last seven

28:22

or so years of everything

28:25

that had happened. And I was

28:28

very upset. I was crying quite a lot when

28:30

it got to the point where I knew who it was. And

28:33

I had the evidence on my phone and I showed

28:35

it to him. He was really

28:37

shocked and he was very kind and

28:40

explained that he thought I had a really

28:42

good case. So he said he would

28:44

be in touch and sent me home.

28:47

And I got home and I felt really positive

28:49

about the whole experience. A

28:51

couple of hours later, I got a phone call. They

28:54

in fact didn't think that there had been a

28:57

crime committed that they wouldn't be

28:59

taking this further. And

29:01

I said to him, I don't understand

29:03

how this can't be a crime. Tell me

29:05

how this isn't a crime. And

29:08

he just apologized and said that he was really

29:10

sorry. It wasn't his decision. He was just passing

29:12

on the message. And

29:14

I put the phone down. I was just really angry. Jodie

29:17

feels sure that a crime has been committed.

29:20

So she walks to another police station to try

29:22

again. The officers for

29:24

the Metropolitan Police listen and

29:26

ask her to send over any proof. Jodie

29:29

contacted some of the other women who'd also

29:31

been targeted. Together, they compile

29:34

60 pages of evidence. I

29:36

got confirmation that they had received it and that they were

29:38

looking through it. And the next couple

29:40

of months were just a bit of a blur of

29:43

me trying to get in contact with the

29:45

police and them

29:47

being really vague and confusing

29:50

and rude, unsympathetic.

29:54

I hadn't heard from them since I submitted this

29:56

document. And it was

29:58

traumatizing to... build

30:00

it. This was photos of my

30:03

deep-faked body. I did get a phone call

30:05

to say that he had been, or that

30:08

someone had been arrested, but

30:10

they couldn't tell me if it was him

30:12

for months. They couldn't tell me until he

30:14

had pled guilty that they had arrested him.

30:16

So even

30:18

though I knew it was him, I knew

30:21

deep down and I had all of the concrete

30:23

evidence, there was a very small part of

30:25

my brain that hoped it wasn't him, and

30:28

that hoped that the call would be,

30:30

we've taken his laptop and you know

30:32

what, your dad was right, he was hacked. But

30:36

that call never came. Jodie

30:40

never confronted Alex, she was advised

30:42

not to by the police, and

30:45

so from years of talking most days, the

30:47

calls and the messages, they just

30:49

stop. There used

30:51

to be on Find My Friends, where

30:53

you can always see the other person's location.

30:56

So this is the end. Jodie

30:59

stopped following Alex. Alex

31:01

stopped following Jodie. Jodie

31:04

waits for an update from the press. And

31:07

then over the next couple of weeks, leading

31:09

up to his sentencing, they just went

31:12

dead silent and they called me on

31:14

no-caller ID, and told me over

31:16

the phone that it will be in

31:18

a magistrate's call, they couldn't tell me when or where. They

31:20

said that I might not

31:23

want to go because his

31:25

parents would be there. And I just thought

31:28

I have as much of a right as

31:31

them to be there, and

31:33

to read my victim impact

31:35

statement. And I want to look him

31:37

in the eye, and for him

31:39

to see what he has done, and to

31:42

see that he hasn't And that

31:44

was a really important part of

31:46

the closure for me, was to

31:49

see first hand that it was him. It was him

31:51

all along, to hear him say, yes, I'm guilty, I've

31:53

done it. the

32:00

other women. Jodie and four

32:02

of the others who were targeted by Wolf

32:04

walk in together. We went into

32:07

the sentencing and it was a small

32:11

shabihi wooden room with

32:14

a box in the corner which

32:16

looked like a cage and

32:19

they brought Alex out. And

32:21

this is the first time that I've seen him in

32:24

months and it's probably one

32:26

of the longest times that we haven't seen each

32:28

other for. He looks really tired. They

32:31

ask him to confirm his

32:33

name and to read out his plea. When

32:37

he read out his name he didn't

32:39

look up. When he said guilty he

32:41

didn't look up and he just

32:44

stared at the floor. I stood

32:46

up and I read

32:48

the statement that I had written

32:50

and I looked at him and

32:52

I willed him to look

32:55

up and he didn't. And

32:58

every time I looked down at the piece of paper in

33:00

front of me and took

33:03

a deep breath and looked back up at him he

33:06

didn't move his head the entire time. He didn't

33:08

look up. He didn't acknowledge that

33:10

it was me. And

33:12

it's a very surreal experience reading something

33:14

like that in that setting and

33:17

it's quite out of body. But I was

33:19

really drawn back to the

33:22

earth because I could hear

33:24

his dad weeping behind

33:27

me. Alex

33:29

Wolfe pleaded guilty to 15

33:31

charges of sending messages that were

33:33

grossly offensive or of an

33:35

indecent obscene or menacing nature. He

33:38

was sentenced to five months in prison to

33:40

spend it for two years, ordered

33:43

to do 40 sessions of a sexual offending

33:45

program, 150 hours

33:47

of unpaid work and to pay

33:50

each of his victims £100 in

33:53

compensation. I was angry that Alex

33:56

got, don't be wrong, he needed

33:58

it but that he He was

34:00

able to access proper support

34:04

and had therapy as

34:06

part of his sentencing. And

34:09

I really felt like the victims just weren't given that

34:11

support. I left with

34:13

£100 and a restraining order

34:15

against my best friend. Jodi's

34:18

not sure what justice should look like, but

34:20

it's not this. She spends

34:22

£100 on a piece of art, a

34:25

nude that she defiantly hangs above

34:27

her bed. She's

34:29

left feeling very angry at the police, the

34:32

relationship she'd had with them is broken down.

34:34

She felt they'd treated her badly and

34:37

failed to provide her with the most

34:39

basic information. Jodi

34:41

wasn't told exactly what Alex admitted to.

34:44

Was he the person who made the fake

34:46

dating profiles? Did he give any

34:48

explanation as to why he'd done this? And

34:51

did the police know who'd been sending her those

34:53

anonymous emails? When we chat

34:55

over coffee and she tells me this story, Jodi

34:58

poses the questions that still were in her

35:00

mind. She wants answers.

35:05

Hi, it's us, just Kate from the BBC. This

35:07

isn't just Jodi's story. 15

35:10

women were listed in the court case against

35:12

Alex. So I just wanted to make sure

35:14

that you had all

35:16

the information and- Me and

35:18

my producer, Rhoda, began calling the women to

35:20

tell them we're putting together this documentary. On

35:24

one of the calls, there's a real shock. The

35:26

woman we're speaking to knows about the case. She

35:29

knows what Alex did. But she

35:31

had no idea that she was a

35:34

victim. The police never contacted her. She's

35:37

incredibly distressed by the revelation. How

35:39

has this happened? So

35:42

I'm just on my way now to meet Jodi. I'm

35:44

gonna meet her outside the Metropolitan

35:47

Police Station where she first reported this

35:49

crime. So I called one of

35:51

the officers on the phone after we'd

35:53

spoken to the woman who had no idea that

35:55

Alex had used her photos in this way, just

35:57

asking how that had happened. And

35:59

they- Told me that they'd just fun out of

36:02

time and resources on the case. The on

36:04

that phone call they offered to meet with

36:06

Jodie took three what has been and see

36:08

if they can get her sins of the

36:10

answers that she still wondering about. I

36:13

think. That

36:17

six pack or be out of the

36:19

that. I'm not allowed in the meeting

36:21

so I wait outside. When Jody comes

36:23

out an hour and a half later,

36:25

she looked a little dazed. Very

36:30

proud I think. Crisis. That

36:33

destroys for seconds of like all of the

36:36

answers were just. Sounded like

36:38

they were from a script. And

36:40

mean as mentioned that some things

36:42

where their fault with the any a

36:44

policy given she today. No

36:47

one any meaningful way. And

36:50

hair sorry. When

36:54

there was an admission of foe. It

36:57

felt that they were

36:59

defending the actions of.

37:02

Their colleagues more than.

37:05

They were actually trying to say

37:07

that they would have done it

37:09

differently. It gets worse. The.

37:11

Please tell Jody the Alex was the

37:14

anonymous email on him alerted hurt The

37:16

deep sakes. She's. Always wondered

37:18

if it was him. And. She's really

37:20

upset by this new layer of deception.

37:24

But. Just as she begins to get a head around that.

37:26

The. Police do a complete one eighty.

37:29

They. Made a mistake. They. Don't

37:31

know if he was email or after all

37:33

and it didn't ask him about the can't

37:35

fussing. Center. Crime. Any

37:38

confidence? a place for hiking to rebuild

37:40

with Jodie is shuttered. She. Feels

37:42

like she can no longer trust and. We.

37:46

Asked the Mets fly that given

37:49

dirty such conflicting information and about

37:51

the of the failings are not

37:53

Contacted all the victims. They told

37:55

us we have urgently taking steps

37:57

to rectify this. We've contacted the

37:59

To. remaining victims so that explanations

38:01

and an apology in full can

38:04

be provided. One of

38:06

the victim survivors has met with us and we have

38:08

apologised. We accept that

38:10

post the submission of this case,

38:12

greater efforts to identify the contact

38:14

details of the remaining two victims

38:16

could and should have taken place.

38:19

They said they regretted the mistake, where they

38:21

told Jodie Alex had sent those emails and

38:24

understood the impact this error had had on

38:26

her. The City of

38:28

London police, who dismissed Jodie's case, told

38:30

us they were sorry for any distress

38:32

caused by their response and that

38:34

they will conduct a review into what happened. Twitter

38:37

didn't respond but Reddit told

38:39

us the page women had had their photos

38:41

posted to has been banned. The

38:44

porn site has also been taken down. Just

38:47

from a closure perspective, why

38:50

was he doing this? I didn't get any answers as

38:52

to why, they couldn't tell me, they couldn't go into

38:54

the details of his interview. Do

38:56

you know if he told them why? I

38:59

don't know, they didn't tell me, they couldn't go

39:01

old stuff. I

39:04

feel a bit overwhelmed. I

39:12

write Alex three letters. In

39:15

the third, I accuse him of being

39:17

the catfisher and the anonymous emailer. He

39:20

responds saying he absolutely refused the

39:23

accusations and says he received

39:25

threatening messages from that same email address.

39:28

He also sends us this statement which

39:30

I've asked my colleague to read out. I

39:33

am utterly ashamed of the behaviour which

39:35

led to my conviction. I

39:37

think about the suffering I caused every

39:39

day and have no doubt

39:41

that I will continue to do so for

39:44

the rest of my life. There are

39:46

no excuses for what I did, nor

39:48

can I adequately explain why I

39:50

acted on these impulses so despicably

39:53

at that time. Please

39:55

know that I write with a

39:57

deep and enduring feeling of shame and

39:59

remorse. for my actions and

40:02

their consequences. I am truly,

40:04

sincerely sorry. This

40:08

case reminds us that the perpetrators

40:10

of online abuse are people we

40:13

know. They're everyday individual

40:15

men, they're our friends, the

40:17

students sitting next to us

40:19

in a lecture hall, the

40:21

colleagues making coffee opposite us.

40:24

And this case really shows that.

40:26

And that of course is what

40:29

makes it particularly difficult

40:31

and challenging for all women because all

40:33

women realise that this could happen to

40:35

them, they could be next and

40:38

there's very little that you can do to

40:40

prevent that. Last year the

40:42

law was changed so that distributing

40:45

deep fake pornography is now a

40:47

criminal offence and the police can

40:49

and should investigate that. The

40:52

challenge with this case though

40:54

is that it's not absolutely

40:56

clear whether or not he

40:58

would actually be said to

41:01

have distributed this deep fake

41:03

pornographic image. Now that

41:05

shows us that there are many

41:07

gaps in the law and the

41:09

law does not recognise women's experiences.

41:12

This is affecting thousands of

41:14

women. People are taking their photos without

41:17

consent and doing whatever

41:19

they want to them. But people

41:21

very often obsess over the impact

41:23

on celebrities, public figures and

41:26

we need to have the proper laws

41:28

and tools in place to stop

41:30

people from doing this. How does

41:32

that make you feel knowing that this whole new

41:34

law has been put in place and yet still

41:36

it wouldn't cover what happened to you? Really

41:38

angry, really let down. I

41:41

want to be glad that I can't speak to

41:44

him because I never got a reason. I think

41:47

that for so long that's

41:49

what I really wanted. Now I

41:52

just don't care. I

41:54

just hope that this fits with him every

41:56

single day and I hope that he now

41:59

understands and the impact that

42:02

this had on everyone, not

42:04

just the victims, but their families, their

42:06

friends, his family and

42:08

his friends, and

42:10

that the enormity of that plays

42:13

on his mind every day. This

42:20

Farland 4 podcast was presented by

42:22

Kate West and produced by Rhoda

42:24

Buchanan. The technical producer was Nicky

42:27

Edwards and the production coordinator was

42:29

Tim Fernley. The editor was Carl

42:31

Johnston. It was a BBC

42:33

long-form audio production for BBC Sounds where

42:35

you can find more radio, music and

42:37

podcasts.